Zoe Saldana on why Trump won: ‘We got cocky,’ we became ‘arrogant bullies’


After Donald Trump got elected, many progressives and liberals turned inward, or they turned on each other, trying to put their finger on just who was at fault. I understand the desire to simply look for answers, to gauge your own level of responsibility. Just know that I don’t feel like it’s my fault at all – I voted for Hillary Clinton in the primary and the general, and I openly despised Trump throughout the election. I stand by everything I said, wrote and did. But other liberal/progressives felt differently. Jon Stewart was one of the first prominent progressive voices to basically say that liberals live in an echo chamber and that’s why we lost, that we were too busy scorning Trump and his supporters to realize that we were alienating a lot of “real Americans” or whatever. Anthony Bourdain said something similar too, that coastal elites are smug and contemptuous and that’s why so many Midwesterners and Southerners voted for Trump. And now we can add Zoe Saldana to the mix – she blames “cocky and arrogant” liberals too. Ugh.

It isn’t an opinion heard frequently in the famously liberal Hollywood, but sci-fi queen Zoe Saldana has spoken out against the acting community for bullying abrasive Donald Trump. The “Star Trek,” “Avatar” and “Guardians of the Galaxy” star — who is not a supporter of the Republican president-elect — believes insults flung at him during the race for the White House turned off much of middle America.

“We got cocky and became arrogant and we also became bullies,” the 38-year-old actress said of Trump, who has been frequently berated himself for bullying tactics, including seemingly mocking a reporter with disabilities. “We were trying to single out a man for all these things he was doing wrong… and that created empathy in a big group of people in America that felt bad for him and that are believing in his promises.”

The Trump campaign that defeated Democratic nominee Hillary Clinton was criticized for stoking racial tensions with its rhetoric against Mexicans and Muslims, but Saldana is hopeful the country will never return to the dark days of segregation.

“I’m learning from (Trump’s victory) with a lot of humility,” the mother of two-year-old twin boys told AFP. “If we have people continue to be strong and educate ourselves and stand by equal rights and treat everyone with respect, we won’t go back to those times.”

[From Yahoo]

I feel like so many people are still grieving and that’s what this is about too, this inward blame-game. The What-Ifs of it all are part of the stages of grief. What If we weren’t so contemptuous of everything Trump said. What If we didn’t call out Trump supporters for their tacit or explicit support of racism, misogyny and hatred. What If we had done a better job of arguing why Trump should never become president. But here’s the thing… Trump earned our contempt and he’s still earning it every g—damn day. His supporters earned our contempt when they voted for him given everything he said, everything he promised. And I followed the election closely – our side did a really good job of detailing every reason why Trump should not be president. If people chose to believe that was “bullying” or “arrogant,” then they’re the ones with the problem. Is it arrogant or bullying to say that a sexually assailant, a pervert, a racist and an idiot should not be president? Really?


Photos courtesy of WENN.

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171 Responses to “Zoe Saldana on why Trump won: ‘We got cocky,’ we became ‘arrogant bullies’”

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  1. MunichGirl says:

    It’s not bullying when you call out Donald Trump – who is the #1 bully – and the things he has said.

    • BritAfrica says:

      Yes but not everybody in our nations were happy and we progressives forgot a simple fact. If you leave a group of people behind, they will become a headache for all of us.

      Those at the ‘bottom’ were falling further behind and we let that happen.

      • S says:

        If a leader is only successful when “everyone in the nation” is happy … Than we never have had, nor will we ever, have a successful President.

      • jwoolman says:

        Trump’s typical supporters were not actually at the bottom. They mostly made a lot more money than I ever have and they mostly led quite comfortable lives. He resonated with embedded racism and hatred of anybody different in the vast majority of them. Others were just plain selfish, wanting tax breaks for themselves and ignoring the needs of others, believing all the myths about how people were poor because of some character flaw that they themselves didn’t have and by golly they weren’t going to pay for poor people’s stupidity. These were the folks who rail against anybody they see using food stamps and believe the welfare queen myths. The only thing that ever convinces them otherwise is if they themselves need such programs and find out first hand how the programs work and how frustrating it is to put up with fools like themselves who haven’t a clue.

        There were some at the bottom who simply believed his lies that he was going to bring their jobs back, but they weren’t the bulk of Trump’s supporters. Hillary actually did better with much lower income voters than Trump did.

      • S says:

        @jwoolman, Yes! Yes! Yes!

        The idea that wealth=intelligence and poverty=stupidity is deeply embedded in the American psyche.

        Odd, since that idea flies in the face of the FACT that the vast majority of wealth worldwide is, you guessed it, inherited. The best predictor for how wealthy you will be as an adult is how wealthy your parents were when you were born. It trumps (pun not actually intended, but applicable) every other arguable factor: education, IQ, work ethic, you name it.

        There are absolutely, exceptions, which people love to cite, but, statistically, how much money you die with is inextricably tied to how much money you’re born with, and there’s no greater example of this than our pompous President-Elect and his braggadocios brood of hanger-on spawn. By every estimate, Trump would actually be far wealthier, if he’d simply taken the money his father left him and put it into an index fund. You know, a mutual fund that simply averages the stock market with no thought, skill, luck or effort required. What a genius businessman he is!

        I’m still stumped by how the idea that money equals character got started and why it remains so prevalent, especially given the historically undeniable horrors perpetuated by the haves on the have nots. Perhaps it’s our nation’s Puritan origins, where if you struggled it was because you’d displeased God, and if you prospered it was due to your perfect piety. Or, more likely, it’s just because people are gross and like to assume that they’re better than others, and want to see something like being beautiful or wealthy as a reflection of their demonstrable superiority, rather than just the dumb, genetic luck it really is.

      • BritAfrica says:

        @ jwoolman

        Think beyond Trump. Think of our broader society.

        The 2008 crisis had a bigger impact on the lower middle classes and most of us did not notice. So into the vacuum steps Brexit and Trump.

        We progressives are also guilty of believing that since we were doing fine so was everybody else. Clearly not the case if the middle class is shrinking as we now know. We should indeed be very worried about that fact not ignore it.

      • S says:

        @BritAfrica Our middle class has been shrinking for decades. Heck, the very IDEA of an American middle class, as we think of it, didn’t even exist until the 1950s. The 8 — eight!! — richest people on earth have more wealth than the poorest 3.6 billion. Yes, almost 4 billion people live on less than what eight men, all but two of whom are Americans, possess.

        THAT’S what’s wrong with this society. The rise of wealth inequality, which Trump will eagerly fan the flames of — the real reason the Republicans have always been so hot to repeal Obamacare is to give massive tax breaks to the 1% — is what’s really “wrong” for most mainstream Americans. And there’s no way the Republicans could get away with it, if they didn’t give those voters someone else to hate more than them, hence the dog whistles of immigration and globalization.

      • Betsy says:

        @BritAfrica: argh! No, we didn’t forget them, but they believed we had based on the propaganda some choose to consume. As of a few weeks ago, Hillary’s campaign site was still up. A five to ten minute trip to the respective sites would have shown people that Hillary’s plans were for the benefit of everyone.

      • Timbuktu says:

        I’m not sure what you mean. In the same breath you say that lower middle class suffered, and that progressives didn’t realize that it was the case. Is the presumption that all progressives are rich or upper middle class? Because that is far from the truth. Most of my friends are middle-to-low middle class and we are all progressives. The 2 of my friends who voted for Trump are far more comfortable than I am: with bigger homes, pools, 3-4 exotic vacations a year, etc.
        Many progressives ARE middle class. We know what is up. We just don’t think that giving tax breaks to the rich is the way to fix the problems.

      • Trillion says:

        Maybe Trump voters live an a bubble too, you know? Her statement actually highlights a difference between liberals and conservatives: liberals will actually self-reflect and feel badly about our behavior when we perceive that it leads to people being offended or let down. I’m seeing all kinds of posts echoing this sentiment on my FB feed. I don’t think I saw anything like this from conservatives when Obama won so decisively 8 years ago. (And I have a LOT of conservative FB friends). Trump won so narrowly with a campaign so hateful and petty, it should be no surprise there is bitterness.

    • Joh says:

      The first thing bullies do when you stand up to them is cry victim.

    • Jay (the Canadian one) says:

      People are conflating “calling out Donald Trump” (a good thing) with dismissing the interests of those who didn’t feel supported by Hillary Clinton (or Jeb Bush or Marco Rubio or …). It’s the latter I would call arrogance. Both sides were doing it: dismissing the reasons the other side objected. If more time had been spent addressing their grievances with the political landscape and less with “Donald Trump?! Are you that stupid?!” things might’ve been different. It wasn’t the scorn for Trump that ticked them off. Just like a kid who gets tired of their parents dismissing their emotions and insisting the parent knows better, these people acted out. They voted for him out of spite as much as anything. It was a terrible choice and now a horrible man is President, but until people recognize it’s that these people didn’t feel listened to, the dysfunction will continue.

      • Megan says:

        I think the “what if” Republicans should be asking themselves is what if one of the many qualified primary candidates had secured the nomination? They may not be my cup of tea, the long list of primary candidates included experienced law makers who understand the role and responsibility of the president.

        Republicans may be enjoying their return to power, but I suspect it will quickly go to sh!t because Trump is not their puppet and will enjoy sticking it to them every chance he gets. He is a bully through and through and will say no for the sick pleasure of disappointing someone.

      • BritAfrica says:

        “People are conflating “calling out Donald Trump” (a good thing) with dismissing the interests of those who didn’t feel supported by Hillary Clinton (or Jeb Bush or Marco Rubio or …). It’s the latter I would call arrogance.”

        Thank you! This is the point I am making. Just because some of us don’t feel any economic pain doesn’t mean there is no pain. Those at the bottom are falling behind even further and their opportunities for social mobility are being shrunk. This may not impact all of us but all of us can vote.

        They are not bullies, they are angry. They decided to vote against what they knew we wanted because they have nothing to lose and they are saying ‘ignore me at your peril’.

      • Original T.C. says:

        I think well meaning liberals keep spreading this myth that Trump voters were the most poor in our society and were lashing out at liberals.

        The poorest which are composting POC and Whited voted for HRC. Trump voters HAVE jobs and make a lot of money. And half are college educated. They are not dumb just voting their interests an fears. It’s more insulting to keep calling them poor and uneducated.

      • Timbuktu says:

        Once again: but we DO feel the economic pain! If *YOU* are not feeling the pain, it does NOT mean that other progressives do not feel it either and failed to consider it. It means we considered it and didn’t feel Trump’s solutions compelling and dismayed at the fact that some people do.

      • Tara says:

        Exactly Canadian Jay.

      • milla says:

        i agree…

        it is not about orange dude himself. people got confused but many HRC supporters acted like they are stupid, racist, dumbos. which is not the case, as Springsteen already stated.

        you should never be the reason someone feels like he/she is less of a person because of politics/religion/gender/race, because then you become part of the problem, not solution.

  2. Sam says:

    No Zoe. Hollywood didn’t bully Trump. You guys normalized his behavior by cracking jokes instead of calling his behind out.

  3. Sarah says:

    Bullying is not the right word when people are trying to call out the bully. I mean if someone bullies me for being black or Muslim or gay am I the bully for telling them to stop? Inarticulate people like Zoe should not speak on this . It’s the same as people on social call it hate whenever you call out something trump said. The world is upside down. Smh

    • Lucy2 says:

      Agreed, and it’s The same with the idea of tolerance. If someone is being racist or sexist, and you call them out on it, that does not mean you are being intolerant towards them!

    • Chicagogirl says:

      Zoe rarely uses the right words. She tries to portray herself as an intellectual with all of these nuanced perspectives, but she ends up sounding completely ignorant.

    • Timbuktu says:

      They’ll never get that, Sarah.
      But I agree with Chicagogirl, Zoe never struck me as particularly bright.

  4. Esmom says:

    Yeah, I don’t buy this narrative at all. Trump absolutely earned every bit of contempt aimed at him. As for arrogance among liberals, I think the opposite might be true — that liberals were tolerant enough to give the stealth Tea Party types a chance when they infiltrated our local governments, thinking they’d be reasonable. It’s happened in my town. But instead of being open to the progressive point of view, they’ve tried to dismantle important programs and slash services and they secretly voted for Trump because they wanted a white man in the White House again to put the world back on the “right” axis.

  5. CharlieWaffles says:

    My boycott list is growing since the election.

    • Tate says:

      Seriously. She is saying that middle and southern America were more offended by people calling out trump on his disgusting behavior than they were by the actual disgusting behavior. GTFO with that garbage.

      • LA says:

        Sadly I think she’s correct on that, though? His supporters DID get more upset about us calling him out then on the disgusting things he did

  6. Crox says:

    “What If we weren’t so contemptuous of everything Trump said. What If we didn’t call out Trump supporters for their tacit or explicit support of racism, misogyny and hatred. What If we had done a better job of arguing why Trump should never become president. ”

    None of this. I think the problem was that Hillary bet too much on all people understanding Trump is terrible, so she spent too litle time trying to proove herslef great (not just “better than him”, which rub some people the wrong way). I know several guys who rooted for Trump because, in their eyes, he was the underdog. How on earth we managed to create sympathy for this doofus is beyond me, but it happend.

    • Lorelai says:


      Basically, Hillary overestimated the intelligence of the American people.

      • Keaton says:

        “Basically, Hillary overestimated the intelligence of the American people.”

        I 100% agree!
        I just read a little article about white women that voted for Trump and frankly their reasons disturbed me. Every single one of them minimized Trump’s behavior as no big deal while many of them completely vilified Hillary as the devil. The double standard was shocking. Explain to me how there is no misogyny involved in Trump’s win? You can’t.

        Several of them claimed to have voted for Obama in 2008 and 2012 How you could go from Obama to Trump amazes me. Hillary basically ran as Obama’s 3rd term! But they apparently did not vote based on policy so much as a generalized feeling that the person running (more precisely the MAN running) was honest and a change-maker. LOL at the idea Trump is honest! W.T.F.

        I was also struck by the fact none of the women seemed particularly poor. They weren’t rich but they weren’t poor by any means. I feel like alot of progressivves lecturing other Dems about being more sympathetic to Trump voters are totally clueless about these people.
        My personal experience is that most Trump voters aren’t the sharpest tools in the drawer and they aren’t the “noble poor” that only needed someone to listen to them.

  7. nemera34 says:

    I agree to some degree on what she said. I do think people got a coocky. In the sense that we truly didn’t believe that this country would be so DUMB as to elect someone so horrible. That so many Americans would sit back and not vote. That so many groups would not be angry and disgusted by the prospect of this sack of sh*t leading this nation. We did what Germany did when Hitler started to rise. The belief that human beings will stop injustice. That human beings would be able to see evil and recognize it. But that basic thing in all of us.. that we are better than them. That they should be brought down. All his Make America Great..was code for this ugliness that lives in the USA. . So in that yes. But she is wrong is saying it is Bullying. That is what Trump is doing and the Republicans. She will not be affected by the fallout. But she should take note.. this man is a child. And he reacts like a child. And he is the definition of a BULLY.

    I want to bring up what Nicole Kidman said too. Because I don’t recall her coming out saying that the Republican should support Obama. She had 8 years to do so. But was silent.

    • Esmom says:

      I don’t think it was cockiness that made us feel like Trump couldn’t possibly be elected. I think it was just plain reason.

      • VirgiliaCoriolanus says:

        That is my thing, Esmom. Just IMO, if anyone else had become the President Elect/the Republican nominee………..Rubio, Ryan, Cruz, Bush, Pence, etc………..ANYONE else had won, then to me you could make the argument that Hillary didn’t do enough, the DNC got lazy, etc………..but COME ON. They elected Trump. Someone who is so unqualified and childish that is it EMBARRASSING to even *think* the words “President Elect Trump”. He did so many things that were flat out wrong during the campaign, and did it OPENLY, to the point to where you can’t tell me that it was Hillary’s fault that he won. He clearly demonstrated that a large segment of the US did not care what sort of vileness he spewed, as long as it was spewed at “other” i.e. minorities, women, disabled, etc. They don’t care.

        This man literally stood and bullied his fellow Republican nominees on the stage, like they were all in grade school. And they just took it, and his supporters loved it. What can you do with that? Honestly.

      • Keaton says:

        Co-sign @VirgiliaCoriolanus
        It still shocks, angers and embarrasses me that people voted this jackass in.

    • IlsaLund says:

      Agree. I was absolutely convinced that “our better angels” would prevail and believed that people would do the right thing. No way would Americans elect such a Neanderthal. My eyes were truly opened and the grief I’ve been experiencing in learning the truth about my fellow citizens has been heart breaking, I don’t feel I can ever have trust in the goodness of people again.

    • CItyHeat says:

      About Nicole Kidman. It was atypical that she spoke about Trump because you are right…..she has historically never spoken publicly about her political leanings….Probably out of strategic PR moves. However I wouldn’t draw assumptions …she’s been in the USA almost 30 years and through multiple presidential administrations. But as they say — follow the money, She has donated to the Democratic Party multiple times previously including support of HRCs senate run. Add in her very real activism in women’s issues globally.

      I get you disagree with her “support the president elect” comments but I think she shouldn’t be judged or stereotyped politically without a broader look .

      • jwoolman says:

        Ordinarily it is common practice to accept the President-Elect and see what he does. But Trump is a very different case. He is a danger to the Constitution and the Republic right out of the gate. Nothing that he has said or done since the election has reassured us that he will not just continue to be a destructive hate-filled bigot and wannabe dictator. He must be strongly opposed now and later. I’ve never felt this way before about any previous Presidents. It is a very different situation and people are right to be very worried. His plan seems to be to move very fast to get rid of every trace of the last Administration and to destroy as much as he can, and that’s not good. Reagan was also destructive but never went at this pace.

      • CItyHeat says:

        @jwoolman. I don’t view this as all one thing or another. I will support and I will oppose on positions. He won’t be 💯 % wrong or 💯 % right all the time. I think he’s assanine a lot. He will hear from me if here is a flinch toward going backwards on LGBTQ issues. But I also like the auto industry keeping jobs stateside and I like aviation federal contractors cutting expenses.

    • Opinion says:

      Yes, and I just wanted to add that Zoe isn’t referring to ordinary people that voted democrat. She is talking about wealthy elite people. Those who have power and influence. (Also, I am liberal but I think she is right although it is not the only reason that he won.)

      An example of this arrogance by a liberal elite was played out recently by Jane Fonda and her tour of the Alberta oilsands. (regardless of whether you agree with her or not that isn’t my point here.) The working class people see her as a rich, privileged elite celebrity that jetted into Fort McMurray Alberta, (a working class town devastated by wildfires last year) and lectured them on what sort of jobs they should have and that they are bad people. This kind of attitude helped Trump to victory. This is why the factory workers in the US voted for Trump. They believe he is going to save their jobs.

  8. Jayna says:

    That’s not why Trump won.

    • locheed04 says:

      Agreed. Aside from the crazies that follow the personality of Trump, there are those that voted for the economic side of his campaign (my dad, for one, who detests the man). For me, rather than the monkey-feces slinging that was this entire horrible election, policies were my focus. What were laws were passed in the last 16 years that got us where we are today? Who is speaking on what policies that will guide the next four? For your info, my sorry butt is living overseas and is DIRECTLY influenced by these policies–to the point where I may or may not get paid if congress can’t get their crap together.

      I am so very, very disappointed in all of America–ESPECIALLY the media–for not focusing on the brass tacks. It seems to me that a lot of the screaming on either side is the idea that the president sets the norms of popular culture rather than being influenced (or forced to be) by them THROUGH THE PEOPLE. People can choose what norms they will follow; they don’t have to bow to any monkey at the podium, and to behave like they do is a disservice to both individual thought and freedom.

      Finally, HOW did he get elected? There is obviously a significant population that is served by his rhetoric, and I am not talking about the Nazi p*ssy-grabbers. People spoke. So the question is, what are they saying they want and need? I take from Saldana’s words that the arrogance of the party were in not asking the right questions.

      • Really? says:

        Did anyone actually look at the numbers? Obama entered office in Jan. 2009 with an unemployment rate of 7.8%. He will be leaving it at 4.7%. Although that’s not a huge decrease, it is if you compare it to the high of 10% during the economic recession of 2009. If you want to compare the numbers to other Presidents, he did better than both Bushes but not Clinton (https://www.bloomberg.com/view/articles/2016-09-06/how-obama-s-economic-record-stacks-up). If the American people were nostalgic for the go go 90s, then it would’ve made sense to elect into office someone who would’ve had the benefit of her husband and his previous advisors as her economic advisors.

  9. Sixer says:

    Soft left/liberal/progressive voices have made plenty of mistakes (and, in my mind, too many accommodations) over the last decades, not just in the latest US election.

    But this isn’t a reason to empathise with racists and misogynists.

    Faulty logic, Zoe, faulty logic.

    • Clare says:

      Right? Trump didn’t win because liberals are bullies…he won because he gave assholes a voice.

      • ctgirl says:

        And there is the problem. You can’t expect cooperation from someone with an opposing view by telling them they are held in contempt because of how they cast their vote or enlighten someone by calling them an asshole. And no, I’m not a Trump supporter.

      • locheed04 says:

        Agreed with ctgirl. Just look at the comments in this article.

      • Aiobhan Targaryen says:

        @ ctgirl putting the supposed hurt feelings of the Trump voter over the feelings of All of the people that he offended is going to get you nowhere very fast. Why do we want or need their cooperation? Are they children that are acting out in public or grown ups? They voted for a man who openly demeaned so many groups of people that it would take a day to list all of them. Yes, they should be shamed because they screwed over millions of people because they thought they would benefit more from Trump’s policies.

        Trump and his voters need to be held accountable for propping up racist, misogynistic, and just plain backward ideology. Being called a racist, misogynist, homophobe etc is not worse than acting like one. The person who is calling a Trump supporter stupid is not worse or even equal to the person who is exhibiting the actions of the previously mentioned epithets. You should spend more time worried about all of the people he offended than the hurt feelings of a Trump supporter.

      • ctgirl says:

        @Aiobhan, you seriously don’t get it. I wasn’t saying that Trump supporters hurt feelings should be soothed or are more important than the feelings of those he offended. I’m saying that it is ridiculous for both sides to call voters of the opposing candidate contemptuous, assholes or other names. If someone calls you an asshole I bet you won’t want to have a conversation with them. The name calling has escalated to moronic proportions. As to holding voters accountable for their choice, that probably isn’t a standard that either side would win (Trump is an incredibly childish idiot and Hillary is out of touch and remained married to a known sexual predator).

      • Aiobhan Targaryen says:

        I do see what you are saying, I just don’t agree with it. Do you honestly believe that they are personally being attacked or do you believe that their belief system is being labeled as stupid?

        Actually, If something like that happened in real life, I would keep the conversation going with them because I would want to know why they are calling me that. After hearing what they had to say, I can either listen further or completely write them off and move on.

        You are also deflecting from the main point of why someone might be writing something negative, focusing on the smallest part of their comment, and then making that comment as if it is equal to the substantive part of what they wrote.

        Try to keep focused on Trump and his supporters. I did not bring up Hilary or Jill or Bernie or anyone else other Trump and his supporters. Hilary and Bernie are both out of touch white people who have done questionable things during their careers. This does not excuse Trump supporters from being held accountable.

      • Shark Bait says:

        Assholes haven’t had a voice in a long time. He is the first candidate in a long while to be proudly anti PC, to mock and insult people, to be endorsed by hate groups etc. His most ardent supporters love him “defending” himself on Twitter and go after those who publicly call him out as bullies.
        I’m not worried about sitting down and having a conversation with someone who thinks like that. I’m more worried about making sure future generations don’t think like that.

    • Maya says:

      Exactly – why are people asking the democrats to look into why they lost the elections?

      It’s not democrats fault that Russia hacked and Republicans accepted it because they ALWAYs put party before country.

      Treason happened at a high level and Hillary didn’t stand a chance against that.

      • jwoolman says:

        We don’t even know if votes were counted right. Hand recounts of paper ballots under bipartisan eyes is really the only way to get past the problems with those damned machines, and too many of them didn’t even have paper backup. Nobody who has worked with computers on things essential for their livelihood isn’t going to backup, backup, backup. Machines fail, and in the case of voting machines they also are subject to corrupt human tampering. (And no, they don’t have to be hooked up to the net for that to happen. The ballot has to be loaded and that can be infected, or the machines can be born with triggerable malware. Local tampering is even easier.).

        Attempts to do hand recounts and forensic examination of machines were blocked by state officials and Trump himself even though regular people donated millions of dollars for the expense in three states. There is only one reason for the winning candidate to block a recount, and that is because he is afraid (or knows) he didn’t really win. In 2000, George W. Bush went all the way to the US Supreme Court to overturn the decision by the Florida Supreme Court to continue recounts. A group of media people unofficially continued the recount, and Gore actually did win Florida’s electoral votes and thus should have become President. Gore did win the popular vote in the official count, although not by as large a margin as Hillary in 2016 (I think his margin was under one million votes, while hers was close to three million).

        We had a bizarre election with interference by a foreign country infamous for computer hacking and massive disinformation campaigns, and even last-minute interference by the FBI over nothing to influence public opinion. Plus literally millions of people were blocked from voting. I don’t think we can trust anything about the 2016 election results.

      • CItyHeat says:

        Do you honestly believe that anyone changed votes from HRC to DT as a result of hearing about Podestas email contents?


    • SilverUnicorn says:

      “But this isn’t a reason to empathise with racists and misogynists.”

      Totally agree!

    • Crox says:

      It’s far from being a reason to empathise with racists and misogynists, but it is a good reason to change the tactic next time. It’s a difficult situation.

      The YOUNG guys I know who supported Trump were glad about “the downfall of PC culture and SJWs”. These are the same guys who are angry about stupid stuff like a black guy playing a stormtrooper, a couple are actual MGTOWs. They can’t be reasoned with, IMO, because being angry and making people angry is what they desire most of all.

      However the OLDER (not grandpas older, more like men in their 40s) guys were manily concerned with the economic aspect and the fact that they found Hillary corrupt and “more of the same”. These guys, however, could be reasoned with if presenting the evidence in the right way. This is where Hillary failed, IMO.

      BTW, I’m saying guys because all the people that I happen to know who voted for Trump or supported him from here (Europe) are men. There are of course also female Trump supporters, just I don’t happen to know any.

      • S says:

        Yeah, but I’d argue that someone that is anti-social justice and believes white men are getting the shaft in America are people who can NOT be reasoned with. You can talk until you’re blue in the face, using the only most polite and politic terms, but they’re not going to listen to you … Because they’ve already told you what they’re about, and isn’t anything based in logic or facts.

        People who think being a Democrat are akin to being the demon spawn (literally, not figuratively) aren’t gonna to be someone I can engage in discourse with and change their mind.

        Trying to reason with the unreasonable? Down that path lay madness.

      • Crox says:

        S, I agree with you, that’s why I said the first group cannot be reasoned with, but the second can. The “older” group are usually not gamers and internet warriors, so they don’t necessarily have racist or misogynist tendencies.** They just decided to vote for Trump because they believe a successful business man can lead a country to better economic conditions, which is their main desire. Everything else comes second. These are the people who could be swayed to not vote for Trump if the folly of Trump’s speeches was presented to them in a form that didn’t imply they are stupid.

        ** I’m not saying all gamers and internet warriors are racists and misogynists. I’m saying the ones I know are, and quite openly, unlike the second group.

      • Shark Bait says:

        The first group can hopefully mature. HOPEFULLY. I know so many dude bros who are now 30 somethings who called Hillary a c word left and right, hate “PC” and were totally fine with Trump “shaking things up.” But I feel like it’s easier to open up a person’s eyes the younger they are. I know I have become even more liberal in the past few years, despite lots of people telling me that getting married and having kids (aka “settling down”) was going to turn me into a conservative.

      • Crox says:

        @ Shark Bait. These guys are late 20’s and early to mid 30’s. I think the time for maturing is gone. If anything, they’re sinking deeper because of the internet echo chamber. I hope I’m wrong, but I am not hopeful. While I know (or think I know) how the second group should be addressed by politicians, I have no idea what to do with the first group.

  10. Ellie says:

    I find her smug and seem to disagree with her opinions a lot. This is no exception.

    • minx says:

      Same! And I never really think of her except when she makes some statement and I think, uh, no…..

  11. Nev says:

    Have a seat Zoe.

  12. Nicole says:

    We got cocky yes. We did not bully a bully by not letting his BS slide.
    But I expected nothing less from a woman that wore blackface and is only black on the days that are convenient to her.

  13. Newbie says:

    Well Trump’s decisions (probably) won’t affect her (life), so she can allow herself to think like that.

    Still #notmypresident

    • CItyHeat says:

      If you are a citizen of the USA…yes he is (or technically will be shortly). Unless you want to renounce your citizenship.

      Maybe he isn’t Your choice….but yeah — he won and he will be your president.

      You can certainly say ” don’t blame me, I didn’t vote for him.” I will be saying that.

  14. ell says:

    some people are doing the same thing here for brexit, it’s the ‘london bubble’ fault that people didn’t see that half the country felt disenfranchised. but the campaign was all about immigration. all of it. so no, it’s not about disenfranchised, it’s xenophobia.

    we should be contemptuous of racism and xenophobia, we should always call them out. it’s nothing to do with bullying.

    • SilverUnicorn says:

      “but the campaign was all about immigration. all of it. so no, it’s not about disenfranchised, it’s xenophobia”

      Exactly. And here in northern England I have not found a single Brexit voter who did it to get rid of the EU. They all voted against immigration.

      I think we are allowed to call it as it is, i.e. xenophobia.

      • Kiki says:

        And look what happen to them. They have no solutions to make their country to move forward and the those idiots who campaign for Brexit have not plans to make their Great Britain more prosperous. You know what happen, their pounds devalue, unemployment in Great Britain is going up and elderly will have to go back to work because there’s no pension for them. All this happen because BIGOTS LIKE NIGEL FARAGE AND BORIS JOHNSON SPEARHEADED THIS RETCHED CAMPAIGN.

    • Della says:

      that’s a complete lie – it was about many things the NHS included – stop demonising poor people

    • jwoolman says:

      If people in the U.K. with a parliamentary system feel disenfranchised – let them try a winner-take-all system for a while such as we have in the USA. Half of us feel voiceless at any given time because we are simply not represented at all. Zero. Nada. Nichts. Rien.

  15. Aiobhan Targaryen says:

    I officially cannot stand her. First her BS with Nina and her lack of self-awareness when the backlash came out, now this nonsense. It wasn’t empathy and feeling bad for him as much as it was Trump saying exactly what they wish they could say openly without consequences. Many of his supporters repeatedly stated that they liked him because it was, ”keeping it real”. Those idiot racist are mourning the years where they could beat up on minorities with impunity. They want those times back where white people were on top, simple as that. She is making too many excuses for people who are just stupid racist and hateful.

    That trash box was not bullied in the slightest. President Barack Obama had to deal with so much thrown at him: being called the n-word, constantly being called an illegitamate president and American, and many other ways of being disrespected in public. He dealt with it and still did his job. I cannot imagine Dump doing the same thing. In fact, I don’t believe Dump will being doing much of working at all. He never has before.

    • Kiki says:

      I am done with Zoe Saldana period. It is just bad enough that she had the audacity to be not aware of the colourism when playing Nina Simone and now she had to dumb logic with “Bullying” Donald Trump. I have no words for this idiot. Zoe Saldana had lost a fan in me.

    • Ashamed 2 b a Fl girl says:

      All. of. this.

  16. Ramona says:

    Zoe is just stupid. She simply doesnt understand the meaning of words, we established that after her defense of the Nina Simone movie. Nobody should ever take her seriously.

    • Mia4S says:

      Your last sentence is key. She thinks she is smart but sadly she’s not very bright at all. She’s not to be taken seriously.

    • Moon says:

      Just because you don’t understand her point it doesn’t mean she’s stupid. If there is anyone stupid here is people who didn’t read past the headlines and don’t understand a pretty simple concept this woman expressed and that many before her had expressed too. It seems a lot of people have comprehension issues or didn’t really read the interview and what she’s really saying. Shame on the sites making false news and manipulating her message with their over simplification and false equivalence in stating she said that he won because hollywood bullied him, but it’s mainly people’s fault for constantly falling for the media like that and reacting like they want them to react.

      I don’t find her stupid. She is not a supporter of him nor she defended him. She had praised Meryl Streep for her anti Trump speech at the golden globes just days ago and actually took a stance against his political views herself. She’s not bipolar and doing a 180° now, she’s just partly blaming the part of hollywood elite that got to his level and helped his supporters paint him a victim when he wasn’t. She’s not against constructive criticism but it’s hypocritical to fight a bully by being a bully yourself, it backfired and she’s right about that.
      If anything this mess is further proving that a lot of people are uneducated and uninformed, they won’t even read a simple article and try to understand simple opinions, how can we be surprised that so many voted for a sociopath thinking he really was the lesser of two evils?
      Education is truly everything and not having it makes us terribly weak.

      • perplexed says:

        She’s not articulate though. I never got the impression people felt bad for Trump , and therefore felt compelled to vote for him for THAT reason. If she had said Trump was speaking about issues that spoke to them as x category, that might have made sense. But I didn’t get the sense people were feeling sorry for him — I mean, he’s a billionaire who yells all the time. Even his most die-hard fans can’t possibly be feeling sorry for him. So her reasoning, imo, does sound inarticulate here even if the actual claim of liberal elites being insulated may potentially have validity (I’m not even sure if that was her original claim, because her point in general wasn’t articulated well).

  17. Lucy2 says:

    This past weekend I found out that two more people I know, who are both immigrants, voted for Trump, and that someone else I know, who is very dependent on the ACA, didn’t bother to vote at all.
    I have given up trying to understand how this all came to be.

    • ell says:

      i’m an immigrant (as a child in britain), and honestly it baffles me as well when i see some immigrants rallying against other immigrants, who are apparently lesser. it happens here as well, it’s just odd.

      • SilverUnicorn says:

        It’s odd and awful, ell. As an immigrant to Britain too, I was appalled to hear that some EU citizens who are dual had voted Leave to get rid of the other EU citizens. Appalling. Pulling the ladder up after you climbed it and such…

      • minx says:

        In America we are ALL immigrants unless you are Native American. My ancestors came from Germany and Ireland in the late 1800s and Poland in the early 1900s.

      • Keaton says:

        My guess: I think sometimes marginalized people that are doing a little better than their peers develop a “I got mine” attitude and get competitive with other marginalized people. That is, they develop a zero-sum game atittude. They are doing well so there is no room for other people of the same group to do well too.
        it’s sad and depressing but I think it happens.

    • Betsy says:

      I know an extended family of Trump supporting immigrants who don’t understand that many Trump supporters don’t care that they came legally, they’re still “other,” and unwelcome.

    • BonBon says:

      Actually you just figured it out. PEOPLE VOTE AS THEY CHOOSE. Your opinion of right and wrong — on behalf of them — is arrogant BS.

      DT won because he got the needed votes in the needed states. DT won because HRC was indeed a flawed candidate who ran an ineffective campaign. She ran the worst campaign since Dukakis.

      Yes of course — hell yes — DT is a flawed candidate as well….but he ran a SUCCESSFUL campaign. Right states, right numbers.

      HRC won California by a landslide. Nothing else. Take away her votes in California….hell take away his votes in California. What do you get? Trump winning the popular and the electorate.

      HRC is president of California. Face the facts.

      • lucy2 says:

        I’m not asking for an explanation of the electoral college, but why people would vote against their own self interests, or abstain from voting when it can greatly affect their own lives. But thanks anyway.
        Also, this “take away the votes in California” concept people keep throwing around is nonsense. California has almost 39 million people living in the state – more than 10% of the population of the entire country (not to mention being one of the states that contributes more to the federal system than it gets back). Why should they be excluded? They are part of the USA.

        But if you like that little game, let’s play with Texas this time. Trump won Texas, 38 electoral college votes. Take away his votes in Texas. Take away Clinton’s in Texas. What do you get? Clinton winning 270-268 electoral college and the popular vote by 3.67 million.

  18. Sia says:

    I’ve noticed that many Trump supporters now act like they have never bullied Obama and his family. They say that liberals are the ones who bully everyone etc.

    politicallyincorrect -> Do Tell • 2 hours ago

    See the current state of the democrat party? Marching, boycotting, threatening anyone who dares to agree to perform at the inauguration, ‘safe spaces’ at colleges…all because HILLARY LOST NOT because Trump won? That’s why.

  19. Lama Bean says:

    People who don’t follow politics closely shouldn’t make fools of themselves by trying to analyze this election. Her analysis is so dumbed down it infuriates me. If celebrities want to comment on something election-related, they should 1. Pay attention to the details, and 2. Comment on injustices that led to this. Speak on people of color being denied their right to vote. Speak on the need for people to think critically. Or Zoe could just shut the …up.

  20. JulP says:

    Yet again, Zoe Saldana betrays her ignorance. So, by calling out Trump for bullying others, we became the bullies? No. We were right to call out Trump for his racism, xenophobia, sexism, etc. etc. And by the way, since when did silence in the face of injustice ever solve anything? It’s only when we speak out and protest (violently, if necessary) that change becomes possible.

    She’s also completely wrong that people voted for Trump because they felt “sorry” for him because he was “oh so bullied by the meanie liberals!” I mean, I’ve honestly never heard anything stupider. As other posters have noted, people voted for Trump because they agreed with him! Because he gave a voice to their own racism, bigotry and misogyny.

  21. Nina says:

    I have just read the NY Times article about Trump female voters. So many WTF moments, it makes me wonder whatever happened to critical thinking and logic ???

    • Ramona says:

      Most women subconsciously perpetuate all the patriarchal systems that undermine them. Not surprised that over half of white women chose a symbolic solidarity with their men (read lovers, brothers and sons) over other marginalised groups.

    • Keaton says:

      YES! I just commented on that article above! I had the same response: W.T.F.

  22. HK9 says:

    How is it bullying when you say that racism, xenophobia, homophobia and misogyny is wrong? I believe that’s called standing up for what is right and I’ll do that any day of the week.

    • Tate says:

      I am right there with you, HK9. I am sorry if middle and southern America has a problem with that.

      BTW, let’s not leave out all of the outside factors that contributed to this election. They are very real and did influence the outcome.

      • jwoolman says:

        Middle America has no problem with strong language in political campaigns. I can’t imagine anybody here voting for Trump because they felt he was being bullied. The guy lives in a golden Tower!!!! He has power and money. He showed no signs of shutting up because of criticism of any sort. He was not bullied. They voted for him because they actually agreed with his atrocious statements and proposals and believed all the lies about his opponent. We just have to remember that nationwide, though, such people actually only represent about one-fourth of the potential voters. More people voted for Hillary but that was still just about the same fraction. The non-voters and can’t-voters are unknowns, and Trump had better not forget that fact.

        Zoe must live in a very unusual Hollywood bubble. Around here, nobody cares what Hollywood thinks about political candidates anyway. They are fundraising sources for candidates and that’s it.

  23. Tobbs says:

    While I agree that Trump and his followers needs to be called out on their racist and misogynistic ways I get where she comes from. There does exist a sort of smug “well if your not woke enough to get why you are wrong I am not going to waste my time on you” sort of attitude going on in liberal circles. I’m guilty of it myself sometimes. I see it a lot in the comments on here, even though I come here because of all the smart and eyeopening discussions this site invokes.

    When discussing feminism or racism it’s easy to get exhausted and to either walk away or resort to passive name calling, talking over peoples heads or generally let it be know that you judge the hell out of their beliefs. And while this is your right, and I totally get the argument that minorities shouldn’t be expected to always be patient and understanding when they try to educate privileged and misguided people, brushing them aside does leave room for hatred to grow.

    As a white woman I must admit that I sometimes get a gut reaction where I fell both personally and wrongly accused of being both racist and misogynistic when I see posters talking about white women or people in a negative way. Of course I address that internally, reminding myself that it’s not personal and sometimes I’ve learned valuable lessons about my own ignorance of the struggles that minorities face and privilege.

    My point is that I think it’s very human to feel attacks on a group you belong to as personal at times and some people may have been driven further into ignorance if they have been met by only anger and judgment from liberal crowds. Yet I also understand the exhaustion behind trying to “politely” get people to stop hurting you. How far should one be expected to be polite and understanding of someone who spews hatred? I’m not really sure which side I’m on in this.

    • locheed04 says:

      Wow. Thank you. You clarified the same for me.

    • Ashamed 2 b a Fl girl says:

      I’m white. I loved Hillary from start to finish. I cannot argue or understand someone who constantly says “fake news”, “liberal media”, …but “emails”. These were the arguments I encountered when but white, dude would have sufficed.

    • Tara says:

      Very well put Tobbs.

  24. Kate says:

    It’s not about backing off Trump. He’s vile and everyone should say so. But there was a real problem on the left this election. Everyone completely ignored the signs. Each month, even in the primaries, he was slowly gaining ground, and everyone just ignored the pattern and assumed every time he plateaued for a minute he’d reached his ceiling. It was like mass blindness. Within a short period, he went from being an outsider with a 15-25% vote ceiling, to bring neck and neck with Clinton, and the left didnt change anything up at all.

    The Dems ran an unpopular, legacy candidate who’d already shown she would falter when up against someone with a bigger personality (they so clearly thought it would be dull old Jeb). They let her whole campaign become about ‘she’s better than the other guys’, which while certainly true, is a deeply cynical and uninspiring message to build a campaign on. The left did an atrocious job of getting its message out there. It just became an echo chamber of ‘I’m With Her’ buttons and ‘the other option is worse’ statements. They failed to mobilise their base. They let Trump hog the spotlight, and let him get away with never expanding on his policy plans.

    The whole campaign was like watching months of Al Gore and John Kerry roll their eyes at Dubya. That’s fine, but you also need to get a message beyond ‘look at what a moron this guy is’ out there if you actually want people to vote for YOU, and not just not vote for the other guy.

    • JenB says:

      Spot on!
      I heard someone say early on that democrats are “lovers not haters” when it comes to showing up at the voting booth. Meaning that to really pull in the dems we need a candidate who we LOVE and are excited about. It can’t just be about how bad the other candidate is. Hillary didn’t inspire as much passion as Obama and a lot of the votes she received were with lukewarm support. It’s not a winning strategy for the left.

      • jwoolman says:

        It’s not a winning strategy for any voter in a democracy. If you have to be properly entertained and excited to go vote, then expect a lot of Trumps in your future. I learned very early that plenty of times, you have to go and vote for the lesser of two evils. The alternative is to let the greater of the two evils win. Duh. Not a hard concept.

        You always will have points of disagreement with a President and you simply have to do your bit after the election to try to influence the winner about the ones most important to you. Just like in real life dealing with anybody, folks. You don’t refuse to get a job because there is no perfect boss or refuse to date or get married because the perfect man or woman doesn’t exist. Well, some might do that, but obviously most people compromise or else we wouldn’t have such a population problem.

        So now we have a guy heading to the White House with flash but no substance who is a chronic liar and is very likely in the early stages of dementia, in addition to having serious attention deficit problems and an inability to learn new things and a severe textbook case of malignant narcissistic personality disorder. Thanks, everybody who didn’t feel sufficiently excited about sane, sensible, intelligent, and experienced Hillary.

      • Lorelai says:

        @JWoolman, this is one of the best comments I’ve read on the situation 👏🏻

    • Timbuktu says:

      I feared Trump would win all along. I was the only one in my circle who was worried. Turns out, I didn’t miss the signs. But you know, the reason I didn’t has little to do with Hillary. I honestly think that it has more to do with the very fabric of our society, it’s our whole irrational, knee-jerk system of beliefs that we refuse to reconsider.
      Things that I have despised about American elections and American attitudes for years have all come together to create a perfect storm. I honestly don’t think we could do much to turn that tide. I fear that America will have to learn its lesson the hard way or go down. 🙁

    • Tara says:

      Thanks Kate, for your thoughtful comment and steady voice. Unfortunately, it appears it have been sucked into Hyperbolic False Dichotomy-o-matic L7890X3000 and now means that you need a naked candidate tap dancing and handing out candy. Because that’s exactly what you said. /s

  25. Lorelai says:

    Slightly related: did anyone else watch Obama’s final interview on 60 Minutes last night? If it is online, I highly recommend tracking it down.

    It was *excellent* — and the entire time, I was thinking, “Can you even imagine Trump ever speaking like this?”

    I was completely bawling by the end. I might just rewatch that on a loop on Friday.

  26. Sam says:

    On the news during the election (atleast in Oz) the focus was more on what Trump said,, emails, Grab the women women’s where talked about more than the policies. Besides from building a wall. I’m sure it was different in the US but maybe the people who voted Trump just saw Clinton and Hollywood “bully” him and saw him as an underdog against the wicked Clinton as they see both as rich people who don’t have a right to complain.
    Also this election was very dirty with the smear campaigns on both sides. I don’t know why it always happens. I find it very unnecessary but it how every country runs elections now. There was also slot of fake news which is just stupid. How did that happen?? Russia?!
    I think they are both shady people and I don’t trust or like either of them but I still would of voted for Clinton. While I question some things about her I know she would be good for America and for the world. I mean Trump is one tweet from declaring war with the press or China. Why won’t someone take his account away from him.!!!!

    Question if Trump does something really bad and gets fired what happenes? Does the VP become P or do you vote again?

    I swear I find the US voting things so confusing.

  27. kcat says:

    4 trump stories so far and all of the comments are virtually the same, where is the echo chamber again?

    • Aiobhan Targaryen says:

      No one is stopping anyone else from posting their opinion.

      • Goats on the Roof says:

        I would argue this isn’t true. A lot of posters with any kind of differing opinion have been shouted down to the point they don’t even bother anymore. I love CB but diversity of thought isn’t always welcomed here.

      • Aiobhan Targaryen says:

        First, no one is actually being shouted down because we are typing on a computer. You cannot tell the actual tone from someone typing on a message board.

        Second, if you feel strongly about your comment, post it. But, don’t be surprised if someone disagrees with you and posts something in response to what you wrote. If you cannot handle criticism, don’t post. I will admit that getting criticized hurts, but if you believe in what you are saying, then continue to post. You also need to be willing to learn. Not all opinions can or should be created equal. It is no one else’s job to agree with everything you type nor ignore it if they don’t believe in what you wrote.

      • jwoolman says:

        Goats – I have to express a viewpoint going against the crowd here and elsewhere myself often enough. You just have to do it, speak your mind and don’t worry about whether or not anybody else agrees with you. It’s not a popularity contest. Yes, some people will say not nice things about you. But just do it anyway.

        The anonymity of the net is so much more protective than realspace, where people who know where you live and what you look like really can hurt you. There is really no excuse for feeling stifled here. I don’t have to worry about one of you folks killing my cat or burning down my house in retaliation for something I said that was unpopular.

        But be aware of a modern phenomenon of paid trolls on such issues, people who show up suddenly and vanish into the air after expressing support for someone like Trump in posts that are made up of right-wing talking points disguised to sound like just an ordinary person who has experienced such and such. When people jump on those, it’s because they recognize the pattern. Scientology is also infamous for doing that whenever their browser search finds that group under discussion. Anyway, don’t mistake that for real discussion.

      • Tara says:

        Oh but they were…

    • detritus says:

      It’s amazing on a liberal, woman driven site, that most women hate Trump.

      Just amazing.

    • Cassiopeia says:

      Thank God your here to educate us.

    • Shark Bait says:

      Meh, I have yet to find a site that’s more than just “Pro Trump” or “Anti Trump.” It always devolves into arguments and I think contrarian opinions end up just stop bothering to post. Has anyone seem any place with reasonable discussion? I have yet to see ANY site where name calling doesn’t creep up. On both sides. Shoot, I pop some popcorn to read the comments on Scary Mommy’s facebook (because they always get nasty).
      I guess my point is, that at this point, there is no real conversation going on. I honestly don’t know a lot of other sites where you can talk about Trump without hearing “Hillary is a killer” “you have no idea what real Americans want!” so this site is kind of a safe haven.

  28. robyn says:

    Thank goodness for some comics because they did a better job than the media in exposing the lies and exaggerations of corrupt conman Trump. Liberals didn’t bully they were baffled as were Republicans by a campaigner who has no shame and is a slippery snake evoking the worst in humanity.

    One Republican excused Trump recently as a sign of the times and the coarsening of society. Look in the mirror he said when you fail to tolerate Trump. To me Trump is a huge wakeup call that one should never tolerate the intolerable. Be vigilant people!

  29. S says:

    Speaking truth to power is so very much NOT bullying. If the people do NOT call out bullies, you are endorsing them. Being the lone kid on the playground who gets beat up for defending the “different” kid whose lunch money is being stolen as he/she is being taunted by a larger group OR you can be the one standing around watching it happen. There is no question who the bullies are in that situation. Perhaps Zoe has never heard, or doesn’t understand, that the only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing.

  30. Samantha says:

    I agree with Zoe and Anthony. If democrats continue to sit on their high horse and only have conversations with people who agree with them, we will continue to lose!!! Neither Zoe Nor Bourdain wanted Trump to win, but at least they can acknowledge why he did.

    You cannot win any election without speaking to the needs of a lot of people. Hillary ignored white working class and therefore she lost. The fact that you continue to condemn all these people as stupid racists just proves Zoe’s point. So, even if you don’t acknowledge or respect them, (deplorables) the next democrat running for president better or get ready for round two with Baby fists!!😱

    • Tobbs says:

      Agreed. So many people voted for Trump that we have to try to get through to them in order to make them change their minds.

      • Aiobhan Targaryen says:

        No, we don’t. We have to talk to the millions of people who chose not to come out at all. Trump supporters made it very clear where they stand.

    • locheed04 says:


    • cynic says:

      Yea, but it’s a two way street. How do you have a conversation with people who don’t want to talk to you and just want to taunt you with the name LIBTARD?
      How do you convince them that they should care about other people?

      • hogtowngooner says:

        Exactly cynic. His supporters were spouting the most horrific racist/sexist/xenophobic remarks and then hiding behind “coming together” and “respecting the office” when people called them out on it. Now that Republicans are in charge of Congress and the White House, where’s been their conciliatory gestures?

        I’ll happily chat with someone who thinks we should repeal the ACA and replace it with something else, and then tell me what that is and why it’s better. Not someone who says “We’re dismantling the ACA because I don’t care about poor people”

      • anon1 says:

        Admirable of you, cynic. However, even when you express a desire to talk to the TRump supporters, you are already judging them as people that don’t care about others. Why not acknowledge that Trump supporters also care about the country, the environment, yes, even minorities, as Democrats, but might have a different solution or different sense of what’s urgent. You can’t go talk to someone, if you are already judging them:-)

    • perplexed says:

      How do you talk to someone like Donald Trump though? His press conferences don’t indicate he’s willing to listen to the other side.

    • jwoolman says:

      Most of Trump’s voters were quite comfortable financially. They weren’t struggling.

      Hillary’s demographics included plenty of people you would label as “working class”. That really wasn’t the relevant division. Look at Hillary’s history and compare it with Trump’s when it comes to actually helping people who really do work for a living rather than living on trust funds and investments. Trump was tapping into something very different and quite ugly.

      • anon1 says:

        Hillary does not have a history of helping working class people, for at least the past two decades. Democrat outreach, as Bernie Sanders rightly pointed out, was rich candidates, meeting with even richer donors, at posh parties on the two coasts. Just look at who donated to TRump and Bernie Sanders vs. who donated to Hillary Clinton.

    • Keaton says:

      100% agree with @Aiobhan Targaryen
      i don’t think you could’ve gotten many of those Trump voters to flip (unless you got a really amazing charismatic once in a lifetime politician like Obama).
      We need to get more reasonable people to the polls and break through the apathy of people that stayed home. Also, the poor people who felt hopeless and stayed home? I sympathize with them. THEY need our attention. But the people who actually supported that incompetent, narcissistic, authoritarian, demagogue kleptocratic bully? Nah. Anyone who was willing to vote for that guy cannot be reasoned with IMO. Sorry.

      I also wanted to add: I think some of them lie about why they voted for him too tbh. They may SEEM to have rational reasons to support him (the economy) but it’s crap. Trump never gave a coherent plan and Hillary actually had decent ideas for small businesses. Moreover all it took was looking at the man’s business success to see his business acumen is more about self-promotion than job building. Come on. That was not a valid reason to vote for him. :/

    • Shark Bait says:

      I just don’t think those people want to listen, either. It is a two way street and an echo chamber can go both ways. I think it’s so much easier to have an “us vs them” kind of feeling rather than to hash it out. I just don’t talk to Trump supporters about politics and touchy issues because it just gets nowhere. It’s much easier to talk about sports, pets, the weather, tv shows… anything else!! I still think we’d feel the same after a meaningful sit down conversation.

  31. alexis says:

    He won because Obama was unsuccessful in bringing jobs back to the rust belt, and therefore won a lot of the swing states. Hilary was going to be the “status quo” president, and people didn’t want 4 more years of basically Obama.

    Seriously, this has very little to do with some imaginary glass ceiling or war on the progressive left. Americans wanted a change and like it or not, that’s what trump promised. Whether he does it or not I guess we’ll find out.

    • Patty says:

      I don’t think that’s the reason why either. The rust belt has been in decline for decades and those jobs aren’t coming back. People voted for him because they liked his rhetoric and liked that he spoke his mind. They were also under the mistaken belief that he’s uber successful, when in fact it’s mostly smoke and mirrors.

      • VirgiliaCoriolanus says:

        This. I live in Michigan (and in a small town)–in the months before the election, I would hear the older people talk about how Trump was going to be bringing back all of these mining jobs.

        And yea–maybe he will–but to do that, my gov’t has been trampling all over Native American Land rights to do it. And even then–it’s all temporary. Only enough for a few years. IF it happens.

        Right now they’re getting rid of ACA………..which is what 1 in 7 people (and seriously, the town I live in is like 50% retired people) depend on for healthcare in my little corner of the world. And they LOVE Trump.

        Good luck to them.

    • jwoolman says:

      Those jobs aren’t coming back. Automated factories need a few engineers to keep things running, not people with at most a high school education. Trump lied to them.

      They need to first of all make sure their kids get the kind of education needed in a rapidly changing world. The adults with jobs at risk or already lost need to get their basic skills in order because they will need them to retrain for new jobs. And they need to find ways to support themselves and their families while getting more training and education themselves, a better use for tax money than building a $25 billion dollar wall or dropping $1 million bombs on other people. Plus they need to find ways to generate new jobs in their own community, not just attracting new companies but also looking at worker-owned type possibilities.

      I would suggest making sure everybody has fast access to the internet because that will let them more easily work with each other and on modern jobs, and also to communicate with people all over the country who are dealing with the same problems and who may actually have been successful in finding their own solutions. Computer conferencing is a huge advance, use it.

    • lucy2 says:

      I think that may have been part of it – the idea of wanting change and seeing HRC as the opposite of that. I can understand that feeling, and can only imagine the frustration of watching industries dry up and decent blue collar jobs disappearing. I can truly understand wanting to believe someone who promises to fix that.
      What I can’t understand is looking Trump, who himself outsources all his products overseas and who is little more than smoke and mirrors (and bankruptcies) and believing that he either cares or has the ability to do what he’s promised. Or, overlooking all the racist, sexist, and other horrible things he’s said and done.
      The sad truth is, as others have stated, those jobs are not coming back, and many of the programs and benefits those people depended on will be cut.

    • anon1 says:

      Hillary also lost due to hers and Obama’s legacy of war in Libya, Iraq, Syria and Ukraine.

  32. perplexed says:

    “… and that created empathy in a big group of people in America that felt bad for him…”

    Huh. That wasn’t where I was expecting her answer to go. Did people really feel bad for him?

    • jwoolman says:

      No, people didn’t feel bad for Trump. I never got that feeling from anybody in realspace or cyberspace. Zoe just doesn’t know many regular people but she is imagining they think like that. Well-intentioned but naive.

  33. April says:

    People are going to disagree with me, and that’s okay, of course, but I’m tired of the blame for this festering turd of a president being laid at the feet of liberals. I. refuse. to. take. responsibility. for. this. shit. show. The only demographic we as liberals marginalized was the racist bigot demographic. And the backlash from that group is partly why he won. We all know Hillary received 3 million more votes than Trump, so it’s hardly a valid statement to say it’s the fault of liberals he won. 3 million more people voted for her! The electoral college is antiquated and inherently undemocratic and if this election doesn’t prove that, I don’t know what will. Add Russian hacking to the mix and there you go. Racists + electoral college + Russians = Shitshow of Epic Proportions.

  34. S says:

    What some are calling “cocky” or “arrogant” I translate as having way too much faith in the American electorate. I absolutely didn’t think that Trump could win. Not because I’m “arrogant” but because I believed that we, as a people, were better than electing a lying, thin-skinned, narcissistic, crazy person.

    Clearly, I was wrong, but I think that’s devastation, not arrogance.

    • April says:

      s – I completely agree. I just refused to believe anyone could listen to this man speak and vote for him. It still boggles my mind.

  35. jwoolman says:

    She will live to regret those words.

    It is not bullying to object strongly – including by laughing at the powerful- to bullying behavior. She is engaging in Backwards Land thinking and promoting false symmetry. Powerful people like Trump do not spontaneously change for the better. They have to be pushed again and again by the forces of public opinion, expressed as strongly as possible. Her quiet approach to his awful behavior is not pointless in certain contexts and she has to follow her own instincts in this, but it also would be a bully’s dream if everyone did that. Trump would never change anything in response to it, on the contrary he would interpret it as support and encouragement to continue.

    The same is true for his followers – a strong response to hatred, racism, misogyny, and threats is always appropriate and really the only thing that ultimately works. Sitting back and just softly saying “wish they didn’t say that” doesn’t get the message across. Would you do that in response to a family member who was threatening other people and assaulting them? Or would you at least try to stop them from hammering someone right in front of you? Would you at least try to support the victims by emphasizing how wrong and stupid the attacks are? Sometimes we can’t do much to directly stop a bully, but we can always make it clear to the victims that the bully is wrong. The strong language that bothered her really was directed at supporting the people hurt by Trump and his followers. The bullies have to hear in no uncertain terms that they are not admired, and Trump in particular is very hard of hearing on such matters.

    It’s fine to take a gentler approach one-on-one with people you know and who are right there in front of you without a mob and a demagogue behind them. That can be very effective. But just watch video of Trump and his audience at rallies – people are very dangerous in such environments and easily led to violence. Watch the videos – they were talking about even killing protesters as Trump egged them on to put the protesters in the hospital. They were not only chanting “lock her up!”, they were yelling “string her up!”. At that point, the mission shifts to getting others outside the mob to listen, because the mob’s ears are firmly closed. We need to discourage others from becoming part of the mindless mob. We have to make it clear that such behavior is simply not acceptable and they believing the demagogue is the height of stupidity. People will pay more attention when bad behavior is labeled as stupid than if we point out its fundamental immorality. We saw this with segregation in this country decades ago.

    She is rich herself and insulated from the realities so many others face in dealing with the consequences of Trump’s vile language and behavior. So she may never fully realize how naive and ultimately encouraging the bullies her words are here. But I hope some of that breaks through to her as she grows older and gains experience.

    • S says:

      It’s like comedy. You punch up, not down. That’s why an SNL skit mocking a rich, entitled billionaire is funny, and a rich, entitled (maybe) billionaire mocking a disabled person, or a Muslim-American family who lost their son in combat or a civil rights leader is gross.

      It’s also why white people who claim it’s “racist to say I’m racist” just because I’m white and voted for Trump deserve all the eye rolls. No. Nope. Not a chance. That is NOT how racism, or discrimination, or bullying, work. You can’t, by definition, bully a bully by factually stating what they are. You can say that’s calling them out, or standing up to them … But it’s not bullying.

      Me, being unwilling to tolerate your intolerance of others, is NOT intolerance.

    • Leigh says:

      Well said. A mild, passive response by Germans to growing oppression of Jews is what ultimately emboldened the Nazis to start the full-blown Holocaust. I agree we need to be loud, and consistently so, in our opposition to Trump, otherwise we risk he and his administration steamrolling the country.

  36. S says:

    I think all of these “we all just need to get along” celebrity normalization of Trump comments are the corollary of the Right Wing’s “shut up and act” we-don’t-want-actors-talking-to-us-about politics comments.

    Both completely miss the point, even if they’re coming at it from opposite directions. Celebs telling people to stop talking/protesting/etc. are equally as bad as people telling celebs to stop talking/protesting/etc. Both seek to suppress some sort of speech/behavior they find personally objectionable.

    Celebs should say whatever they want about politics, and “normal” people should react however they want to what was said. Circle of life.

  37. teresa says:

    I find this to be a very weak argument from folks who are still trying to find an answer for what happened. I’m going to explain what happened and what we can do. As we all know fewer people voted for the OrangeLunatic, overall. But the argument for decades now has been how the middle of the country are the real Americans and any people on the coast live in a bubble. Let’s talk about bubbles, who exists in the bubbles really? The people of the nation who don’t recognize other Americans as legitimate Americans. We are now finding out that a great number of people in the middle of the country don’t understand that ACA=Obamacare, they think Obamacare is for poor brown people and ACA is for them, suddenly they are finding out their bubble has screwed the hell out of them. We don’t live in the bubble, they live in the bubble! Their bubble was created by Fox News and Hate Radio, their misdirected anger at minorities has directly impacted their own existence. These are our parents and grandparents, who once encouraged us to get our education, only to find we had to leave to get jobs. So their bubble now is the reason they could lose their access to health care, ie ACA and Medicare, since Republicans are threatening to voucherize it, and their retirement stability as Republicans threaten to change it, invest it in the stockmarket or whatever it is they are going to do. The bubble isn’t enveloping us, it’s enveloped them, and it’s going to hurt us all if we don’t stop them.

  38. Ann Carter says:

    This is all so hilarious.
    The middle of the country, in it’s short-sighted, ham-fisted, uneducated, racist, xenophobic “bubble”, wasn’t swayed by HRC’s close relationships with the beautiful and powerful (Jay Z, Bey, Clooney and Gwynnie) ..
    Keep over simplifying, folks.
    Identity politics cost her the election.

    And THIS cost her the election:

    “My dream is a hemispheric common market, with open trade and open borders, some time in the future with energy that is as green and sustainable as we can get it, powering growth and opportunity for every person in the hemisphere.”

    Talk to people outside of your own bubble.
    Globalization isn’t working for the US.
    All of the histrionics, anger, boycotts and drama in the world won’t change that.

    • S says:

      Anyone who says Clinton is the candidate guilty of “identity politics” loses pretty much all credibility to begin with.

      But, I’ll bite, and the idea that the world will ever again get smaller and more separate requires looking at technological reality, ignoring all facts and logic, and/or assuming it will cease to exist. We are becoming ever more entwined economically and technologically, as a world. That’s an indisputable fact. The myth that mining and manufacturing can be “brought back” to America as primary, high-paying job sources, would be laughable if I didn’t know so many people believed and desired it to be true. The future is greater and greater technological advancement that makes manual labor ever less valuable, or even necessary, and high-level education all the more necessary, the world over. Robotic building is now the norm and if every single manufacturing plant returned to the US tomorrow, they would employ only about 1/4 of the manpower they did in the 1960s. And the number of actual people needed to run these plants decreases annually.

      Our finite natural resources, particularly in fossil fuels, are just that: finite. They are not never-ending as an energy supply OR an economic market.

      Those that ignore those realities, in order to live THEIR “bubble” of fear of the “other” and nostalgia for a time long gone, really are doomed.

      • jwoolman says:

        And those fewer workers in automated factories are most likely going to be people with engineering degrees, not the people who had the jobs before. Education is more crucial than ever.

        Same as what you said about fossil fuels. They are getting harder and harder to recover from the ground and eventually won’t be worth the effort. Trump talked about bringing back coal mining jobs while he also was supporting fracking, which is an enhanced recovery method that temporarily has made natural gas cheaper than coal and thus has reduced the need for coal miners all by itself. Plus the mines are increasingly automated, which is good from a health standpoint but scary when you’ve spent your life digging coal and are not sure you can learn how to do something else.

        The future of energy has to come from renewable sources, not fossil fuels that are not renewable on any human timescale and whose recovery is causing more and more environmental problems. Putting taxpayer money into fossil fuels is kind of a waste at this point and very short-term thinking. But the people displaced from such jobs need a lot of immediate support for retraining and attracting/creating new job opportunities within their communities.

  39. Leigh says:

    “Is it arrogant or bullying to say that a sexually assailant, a pervert, a racist and an idiot should not be president? Really?”


    I’ve disliked Saldana ever since she claimed she could be bi-sexual because “that’s how androgynous I am”. First, that makes no f*cking sense and second, I know it may not be fair for me to claim to know what another person’s sexuality is, but she just smacks of a straight lady claiming fake bi-sexuality to be “cool”, “edgy” and “hip”.

  40. M.A.F. says:

    “I feel like so many people are still grieving and that’s what this is about too, this inward blame-game”

    Did anyone watch black-ish last Thursday? That episode was spot on.

  41. Payal says:

    So we picked on Donald and people voted for him out of pity? That’s what she got out of this?

  42. Achoo! says:

    I think Hillary finally lost when she tried to play Trump’s game with the ‘Basket of Deplorables’ comment. My heart sank when I heard her say that, a president of the US needs to represent everyone in the land not just the ones who are ‘your sort of people’ . Many voters who were on the fence at that point came down on the Trump side.

    • S says:

      Ha! I’d venture just about no one who voted for Trump did so because they thought Hilary calling half of Trump’s voters deplorable was beyond the pale. The people that were so offended by that relatively gentle — given exactly who had come out and supported him at that point, and how they’d personally attacked so many individuals and groups — admonition were never going to vote for her anyway. Because talking about which of our main Presidential candidates made the more insulting statements, and coming down that it was Clinton is … Not exactly funny, but definitely laughable.

      Yes, it was an unfortunate, and not very politic, statement on Hilary Clinton’s part. But to even compare it to the months of venom for just about every type of person that isn’t a straight, white male, or Russian dictator, out of Trump’s mouth is false equivalence of the worst type.

      Was it a rallying cry for Trump’s base? Sure. But they were already well committed. Just like Clinton’s voters rallied around Trump calling her a “nasty woman” … I don’t think that was a turning point for voters on either side of the divide, but instead a trigger word for both those that loved and loathed Clinton.

      Why do I think Clinton lost?

      It wasn’t any one thing and, yes, I think assumptions, as in assuming voters were not as ignorant, racist and sexist as they actually were, was part of it. In addition to that I’d say …

      – Hate of the Clinton name; fairly or un there are many that despise her simply for being her
      – Russian influence on our election
      – Comey’s bogus, 11th-hour “leaked” letter to Congress
      – Successful voter suppression by Republicans using the Boogie Man of “voter fraud” to disenfranchise mostly minority voters
      – Media that treated Trump as a joke/ratings dream through most of the primary process, and then continued in the general to subject Clinton to greater scrutiny both for the “appearance” of fairness — Trump had so many scandals and outrages, they had to have equivalent negative Clinton coverage — AND because, like most, they sincerely thought Hilary would be our next President and, therefore, felt duty-bound to hold her to a higher standard
      – The party over country stance of the Republican party, where its own representatives were fearful of speaking out (and if they did, they often later renounced it) against even Trump’s most outrageous rhetoric: the Muslim ban, mocking a disabled person, starting a Twitter war with a Gold Star family, bragging about sexual assault, proposing dangerous and/or unworkable policies, etc. etc. Honest assessments that he was unfit from more people in power that Republican voters trusted would have gone a long way towards reinforcing the few truly undecided voters who held their nose and voted Trump anyway. Instead, any condemnation broke along party lines and could be spun as politics as usual, even though Trump is anything but.

      • Tate says:

        Well stated, S. There are so many contributing factors that led us to the mess we are in today.

  43. AnotherDirtyMartini says:

    Maybe this is why Hillary lost – misogyny is still commonplace in the USA.

    Maybe this is why Trump won – misogyny, racism & bigotry are still commonplace in the USA. We’ve been discovering that we have tons of jerks.

    • ash says:

      not to sound sarcastic but people of color already knew…. but i’m glad everyone is really seeing the ridic going on in this country.

  44. alexis says:

    @Achoo! Yes, this was also a huge reason. As a president candidate, you wage war against your opponent but not the millions of actual “small town” people who were planning on voting for him.

    Insulting half of the county by calling them “deplorable” doesn’t work in favor of uniting a hugely decided country.

  45. ash says:

    ZOE no…. and I cant really take you reasoning seriously when you black-faced your way into a movie, because it was that bling optimism and slanted reasoning tools you have that made you feel like you would nail the Nina Simone part LOL

    this was a major hate lash, white-lash, non-pc lash…..after 8 DAMN YEARS OF CLASS, GRACE, INTELLIGENCE, EMPATHY, COMPASSION, DIPLOMACY, REASONING, LOGIC, MUTUALITY ON ISSUES, DECORUM, HONOR ETC. ETC. not perfect but great nonetheless…

    so no, his voters are deplorable, and his supporters are the same… and they can all go to hell.

    Sorry, I’m angry today.