Far be it from me to question the state of Precious Ivanka and Jared Kushner’s faith. I take them at their word that they are devout, and that they believe strongly in a modern take on Orthodox Judaism. We know from experience that Jared and Ivanka observe the Shabbat, a time when Orthodox Jews withdraw from work commitments. Jared and Ivanka regularly leave work on Friday and are “incommunicado” with the president and everyone else. Which has led to some hilarious stories about Donald Trump’s weekly tantrums when Jared and Ivanka aren’t around. We also heard that Ivanka and Jared had to get a “rabbinical pass” to fly on Shabbat. So, they are observant. Except when it comes to golfing. And eating non-kosher food.
President Trump’s daughter and son-in-law don’t let their religious practices interfere with their love of the links at his Bedminster country club. Ivanka Trump and Jared Kushner follow the Jewish prohibition on Sabbath business transactions by not paying the caddy who carries their golf bags on Saturdays until the next day, a club worker said. Their tips are generous — usually $100 on top of the $200-per-round, the worker said.
But experts in Jewish law say that playing golf on Saturdays isn’t kosher — even without exchanging cash or using carts, which the couple shuns.
The Rabbinical Assembly, part of Judaism’s Conservative movement which is less strict than the Orthodox tradition embraced by Jared and Ivanka, ruled against Sabbath golf in 2015 — because golfers can create divots on the fairway.
“Both the digging and the repair of the hole . . . constitute melakhot [forbidden work],” according to the ruling.
Ivanka and Jared have also been spotted dining at non-Kosher restaurants in DC.
It’s interesting from a religious and legal standpoint that they take pains to follow the letter – but not the spirit – of Jewish law. I mean, do you think Precious Jared and Precious Ivanka go out of their way to follow the spirit but not the letter of other laws too, hm?? I find it interesting that they would go out of their way to pay their caddy the next day, and yet ignore the fact that creating divots is melakhot. Maybe they don’t fill in the divots and that’s how they get away with it? As for not staying kosher… eh. I’m sure a lot of observant Jews have trouble keeping 100% kosher all the time.
Photos courtesy of Getty.
What a shocker (not). That pic of baby fists checking out his daughter’s rack is making me dry heave.
Hmm it seems to me he is looking down at the desk but who knows.
Ugh that’s all I got out of this post. VOMIT. What a sick pervert.
Unless he is actually looking at the desk. I have my doubts. 😉
If I was a caddy, I will make busy work or walking the other way when they are coming my direction.
And this not paying for services the day of, why is that acceptable. It is rude and they are an embarrassment for doing it. If it was me and they pulled that crap, their clubs would been at the bottom of the lake.
Speaking as a non-practicing Jewish, there are ways around the rules. Can’t turn on lights during Sabbath? Get timers. Can’t handle money but know you’re golfing on Saturday, pay beforehand. The kosher thing? No way around it, you are or you’re not. I say this as I digest my yummy brown sugar sausage links.
My late grandfather, when he was a kid, had a job working for Jewish people around the house. They couldn’t turn on the lights or heat, but HE could.
JC126- my mother grew up in a “mixed neighborhood”‘which back then meant Catholics, Jews, and Protestants. That was back in the 1920s and 1930s. No timers, but middle class people often had a servant. The Jewish families just made sure to hire non-Jewish servants…. Solved quite a few problems! Not unlike trading off holidays at work with people having different religious days. My aunt (a nurse) routinely did this with Jewish colleagues so she could have Christmas Eve and Christmas off.
@jc126 many synagogues have what is referred to as the “shabbos goy” who could do the work of turning lights on and off, etc.
When I was remodeling my kitchen, I noticed some of the higher end ovens had a Sabbath setting. When I win the lottery I may find out how that works
As for the Kushners, I know some Conservatives that keep kosher at home but not away from home and some Modern Orthodox who are flexitarians but none of them put on the airs of the Kushners while getting dispensations and crap.
I doubt that the caddy feels that way. The caddy gets paid the next day and paid well. Do you really feel caddies at that level live so close to the edge they aren’t willing to wait a day for a good customer? It’s called a business negotiation. If it were crucial, someone else would just pay and get reimbursed later.
For the record, $100 (even if it’s $100 per bag per 18 holes) isn’t especially generous, especially in those circles. My bf makes a good living as a caddy and that’s what an average golfer at his course tips the caddies per round–the actually generous pay more.
AKF – Yikes. Good thing I never got into golf…. So the Prince and Princess are cheapskates after all. How Trumpian.
Or maybe the divot thing is silly
Most parts of all religions are silly. But how can a person call themselves religious though if they decide themselves what they follow and don’t follow, and what’s silly and what’s not silly? “Cafeteria Catholics” and Jews and Muslims and Buddhists and etc etc who pick and choose are full of themselves.
So people should be fundamentalists or atheists?
You can’t decide for someone else how to practice their religion. You’re also assuming that religious faiths have completely rigid rules that are never changing. That just isn’t how it works. I’m familiar with different flavors of Jews and also Roman Catholics, and the rules for both groups constantly shift and are always subject to interpretation, re-interpretation, and adaptation. Jews in particular consult with rabbis for guidelines, but different rabbis (and different rabbinical organizations) will give different answers. Judaism is not generally considered a dogmatic religion. Calling this normal process “cherry-picking” is trivializing the role of individual conscience in any living faith and also the fact that words are always subject to re-interpretation as time marches on and cultures and languages change. This is even true with religions considered dogmatic. Change is normal and continuous.
And I see no evidence that Jared and Ivanka are following the letter of the law but not the spirit of the law. It’s exactly the opposite according to what is reported. Following the spirit of the law means doing what they actually apparently are doing, adjusting to current situations considering the intent of any traditional rules. Look up the phrase — it’s being misused here.
You can always find someone who assumes that their particular interpretation of the rules for their nominal religion is the only one possible and everybody else is a hypocrite. They can be quite loud and insistent. Doesn’t make them right.
@flybaby: Is it really necessary to call other people’s beliefs silly?
I don’t think it’s odd for religious people not to keep all parts of their faith-I know I don’t. It does become odd though when they make such a big deal about making it known that, for example, they got permission from their Rabbi to travel. I don’t think we would be commenting on it if it hadn’t been made a ‘thing’ by them
It’s cherry picking. And lots do it. It’s not a full and true sacrifice of daily modern life for your faith. That’s difficult. Especially if with most faiths you wish to still operate in the modern world, acquire wealth and hold materialism within your values.
And no, this wouldn’t be an issue until they shined a spotlight on it multiple times to justify their behavior and for their pr image to thrive. Justification for absences.
So… yea.
I think there will always have to be some navigating these things when applying them to modern life. Things like interest rates on student loans for example – it has to be done for a lot of people if they want to go to uni.
Normally I would say how someone chooses to practise their faith, and which part they follow is their business. But when they use it, like you said, to justify absence from parts of their ‘job’ -if you can even call it that- and make it a constant PR point, it’s a fair point to raise.
KJA – not being present at work on the Sabbath is expected for observant Orthodox Jews. My advisor kept a yarmulka and prayer book on a high shelf in the lab in case he got detained too long to make it back home (driving required) before sundown Friday. He would have to stay with someone within walking distance if that happened, just as he did when needing to attend a conference held on campus on a Saturday. They’re not faking that or trying to “shirk work”. Same with turning off the gadgets like phones. Anybody who needs to contact them for something urgent can show up at their door and tell them in person. Just as people did in the old days before telephones.
Jwool
It’s a constant battle of balance. How devout you want to be or can be vs what comforts or duties you won’t sacrifice for the practices of your faith.
What gets me here and opens the door to criticism is simple. They made it a specific or point so many times they are truly devout orthodox. Yet they’ll take a break for fun activities. Cake and eating it case.
I’m not so sure Jared and Ivanka made that a thing. It was far more likely just a response to questions about why they could travel on the Sabbath. It is very normal for people to consult with rabbis about such travel. My very Orthodox advisor did that when he was traveling overseas for a scientific conference. It’s not as absolute as some think for seriously observant Jews.
A lot of times, people in the public eye get unfairly accused of making a big deal about something when actually they were just asked a question and answered it, rather than mentioning it out of the blue.
I say this while hoping Jared and Ivanka get consecutive sentences so their kids aren’t bereft of both parents at once when the you-know-what hits the fan bigly. I think Jared especially is “Guilty! Guilty! Guilty!”. Which is a far more important deviation from his religion than traveling in a vehicle on the Sabbath, and not really subject to much interpretation by rabbis or others.
Jwoolman-maybe I’m letting my dislike for them colour my thinking. I’m not Jewish and there are plenty of people who seem to know the practises better than me-so I’ll default back to letting people practise their faith however they want. Like you said, there are so many other things to criticise them for
As a Jew who has been all over the place with my faith, I certainly understand some things are very hard to practice. My ex husband is Conservative, somewhat strict and his extended family includes 2 cousins that are Rabbis and a cousin who own a religious publishing company. My family is Reform-progressive but we embraced many of the traditions. My ex works in an industry that has no set hours and calls for a lot of travel but he worked it out long ago and he isn’t even Orthodox. His parents are business people who turn all business matters over to someone else during Shabbat. But the thing is they don’t go around making grand announcements about their faith. My father in law would never consider playing golf during Shabbat. He figures there are plenty of other days to play it isn’t essential. He prefers to spend the day with grandchildren and family. They are Kosher lite, meaning when they can they do but sometimes they just don’t. During Shabbat, no question.
Why don’t they just play on Sunday? It is simple. Why make a big deal of it? They use it as part of their image. The whole point of Orthodox is to be stricter than others.
They might need to babysit daddy Trump on Sunday. Otherwise, it would indeed make more sense to just golf on Sunday.
As long as they aren’t tying to To convert me….I don’t care what their religion is, whether or not they follow it to the letter or anything else about their practice of faith. No one owes me an explanation for their practice of faith, nor do I owe anyone an explanation of mine.
Looking at you, Pence.
Jews don’t believe in that-so you’re clear.
HAHAHA! Nope, no worries there.
Pence in particular seems to have a list of only Nine Commandments. His religion has omitted the one that is No. 4 in the Catholic list that he grew up with: “Thou shalt not bear false witness,” which was explained to me in every religion class during 16 years of Catholic education as “Don’t lie.”
In the VP debate, when Tim Kaine was repeatedly quoting Trump quite accurately (I had heard Trump say those things with my very own ears on tv), Pence kept shaking his head and claiming Trump never said such things. Since he was actually there a lot of the time and heard the same things I heard with his own two little ears, the man doth lie bigly.
No different than the Christians that cherry pick the Bible.
They are 100% full of shit, that’s for sure.
Seriously? I’m no ivanka apologist but this post is laughable.
Yes, it’s pointless. As for non-kosher restaurants – I worked with a very observant Orthodox Jew and he had no problem eating at “non-kosher” restaurants. He simply ordered things that were kosher by default. Guess what, vegans eat at non-vegan restaurants too… it’s what you eat, not where you eat that matters.
The divot thing is easy to work around if needed. Just have a non-Orthodox person do it. We don’t even know if that’s their particular belief, though.
I don’t know why people keep picking at these two about religion. They’re obviously serious about it but don’t yell on street corners trying to convert others. Lots of real stuff to criticize them for, but religion isn’t one of them.
Because they use their religion as a shield against criticism. Papa Orange touts them as their great Jewish advisors who can fix all the problems in the Middle East with their Jewishness and don’t you dare claim they’re anti-Semitic because look at those Jews in the family. Everyone in DC knows the Orthodox crap they put on is mostly fake.
Caroline – that’s the Orange Maroon talking, not the Prince and Princess. You know Trump always uses whatever excuse he can come up with, and he uses his Jewish daughter and son-in-law as an excuse to claim he is the mostest and bestest non-anti-Semitic person in the whole wide world because he can. I have never actually heard the Prince and Princess proclaim such things from the rooftops. (Actually, I’ve never even heard Jared speak at all in public…) That’s all the orange daddy. I would rather focus on their real sins rather than the sins of the fathers and fathers-in-law.
It has given me the chance to make the unrelated point that she really does seem to have a remarkably small head, actually smaller than one of her boobs. It might be a particularly bad angle in the first pic but I’ve seen it in lots of photos.
I would laugh this off except for the big deal they made for getting a pass to travel but then golf on the shabat
But DID they get a pass to travel? I read somewhere that their rabbi hadn’t heard from them since the inauguration and gave them no pass
I mean, isn’t this par the course (pun VERY MUCH intended) for this family/their kind? NOTHING they will & want to do is *inconvenienced* by LAW, religion, diplomacy, etc
Pampered prince and princess.
Did anyone actually believe they were legit? They’re trumps. Follow the rules are for peons.
I’m a reform Jew who loathes this family-but I’m not going to criticize how they practice their faith.
If we want to call them out on how they are not following the values of this religion, I’ll strongly agree, but I won’t criticize how they choose to follow the “rules” of Judaism. In my experience, it’s ALL just interpretation. There’s no Pope or any other official who gets to declare the “law”. Every Jew or group of Jews decides for him or herself what their interpretation of the rules or law are. I appreciate the interest in calling out perceived inconsistency, but it’s not our business how they interpret the rules. Let’s focus on how they are not doing good deeds, working for justice, or healing the earth.
As a total cafeteria Catholic I can’t judge. Or maybe I can. I don’t pretend to, or take credit for, following all the rules. Jared and Ivanka seem to like the appearance of piousness, so I’ll say the behavior is shady.
Right-so as a Catholic you go to Mass every Sunday, go to Confession regularly, go to Mass on all the saints days, do Stations of the Cross, and you would never use birth control. I’m going to guess you don’t do all of those things-Judaism is the same. Even Modern Orthodox pick and choose.
Far be it for me to debate what’s “kosher” in terms of activities on the Sabbath – I’m a VERY Reform Jew. But these two are not Kosher for a number of other reasons, the first but not least of which they are Lying Liars Who Lie, in violation of one of that “shall not bear false witness” commandment thingy…
“But these two are not Kosher for a number of other reasons, the first but not least of which they are Lying Liars Who Lie, in violation of one of that “shall not bear false witness” commandment thingy… ”
Excellent point. That’s something to focus our criticism on.
Yeah I feel weird about this. Who am I to judge how they practice their religion? I know to some it’s an issue because they made a big deal about getting a letter from a rabbi to travel, and I see that POV, but they’re not putting themselves out there as THE model of Orthodox Judaism. And this is coming from a person who loathes the Trumps. I don’t see why this is a big deal. I don’t like cherry picking in religion but at the same time following religion to a tee is hard. I’ll criticize them for their pretentiousness and their overall holier-than-thou attitude with respect to me as a peon but I won’t judge their religiosity.
Super Jewish here. MA in Judaic studies.
1. Orthodox Jews would not take a chance eating in non Kosher restaurants. It’s not just about the food but also the cookware, silverware, etc. I would bet that , for example, Mayim Bialik either brings her food or has a special Kosher caterer. This doesn’t apply to packaged foods like candy, Which can be certified Kosher. It’s the “free-range” unpackaged, unapproved foods that are forbidden.
2. Conservative Jews would be more likely (though not always) to eat something vegetarian at a restaurant.
3. It’s not just filling in the divots that is a problem. It’s also making the divots in the first place, which woukd be considered digging (which is work, to put it simply. Tgere are more nuances thab just the work thing). Orthodox Jews would not golf on Shabbat.
Reform Jewish here (my son’s bar mitzvah is this Saturday!) I’m thinking they’re actually Conservative and she had an Orthodox conversion. Even the way she dresses would not cut any Modern Orthodox that I’ve ever known. And you can still go to an Orthodox shul and not be Orthodox, correct?
I knew if I scrolled all the way down there would eventually be someone who knew what they were talking about. Thank you for this.
My issue with them is their hypocrisy. I can’t stand that in any religion.
Tangerine wanted the support of AIPAC so they pushed this. Like Crooked Jared can somehow make up for the bigotry and the anti-Semites he has in his administration. AIPAC is a powerful lobby with huge donors so he gave that absurd speech about Complicity Barbie giving birth to a Jewish baby as if that were some special thing. Evangelicals are usually pro-Israel so he figured he’d get a twofer with two blocks of voters with the added bonus of using the Middle East conflict for his Muslim ban. Not everyone who belongs to AIPAC is right wing but you have mostly hard-liners there.
Republicans are usually pro-Israel, for different reasons, and he needed those votes so out comes Super Jewish Jared and Co. However, 71 percent of the Jewish vote went to Hillary as it did for Obama, 78 percent and 70 percent. Bigots always think minority groups will vote for a member of their group no matter what their politics are.
I don’t really care how they observe but they put it out there for criticism.
AIPAC is not my thing. I don’t mind supporting Israel but not blindly and not the policies as they are now. Crooked Jared’s family are hard-liners as is he so it does make this story weird.
As a Jew, this is what I think about Jared and Ivanka they represent the antithesis of the core Jewish values. The values I was raised with, of recognizing the inherent human dignity of all people, protecting the most vulnerable in society and taking care of our planet. Both of them were part of a campaign and now administration that scapegoats racial, religious minorities and future destruction of our earth. I am less concerned about if they keep kosher or not or drive on Sabbath, but how they carry out the core values of Judaism.
The Kushners already turned in their Orthodox tribal card when they flew on Shabbat. Orthodox Jews would only travel on Shabbat if it were an absolute emergency. Also, there are rabbis who would do anything to please Jared Kushner and his family, probably because they’re big donors to the religious schools and institutions. Which means Jared gets a pass when others wouldn’t dream of asking for same.
Orthodox Jews also do everything they can to refrain from eating non-Kosher food that was made in non-Kosher kitchens in non-Kosher pans, and eat off non-Kosher plates, that were cleaned in non-Kosher sinks. Many Orthodox have two kitchen sinks – one for meat and one for dairy. If you have one sink you have to keep it Koshered – which involves cleaning. They have three sets of plates, one of meat, one for dairy and one for Passover. No restaurants other than Kosher restaurants follow these religious rules.
Finally…Golf on Shabbat? You’ve got to be effing kidding me.
Yup! you hit it right on the head!
you got it 100%%
The place were they had dinner during that tragic visit in Rome is as non-kosher as it can get (I work near the restaurant) so I thought that they just respected the shabbat, but ignored the kosher food part. The menu had carbonara and amatriciana pastas both which have pork and they drank a very expensive wine that did not come from a kosher winery so yeah. They are observant when they want to be.
As much as I can’t stand either one of them, I can’t fault them for the way they choose to practice their faith. I consider religion a very private matter. I’ve been very offended and hurt when some people have told me I can’t be a Christian because I’ve been divorced and remarried or I’m pro-choice or whatever random reason they come up with. The Lord knows my heart and I know my heart, and that’s that. So I won’t judge if they don’t do things strictly by the book as far as their religion goes. But otherwise, I don’t like their support of this administration. It’s hard for me to tell if it’s just a daughter trying to help her (seems like) senile, idiot father or if their intentions are more nefarious (possibly both?), but either way they suck.
Iam jewish and consider myself orthodox.. and that is how ivanka converted under an orthodox rabbi. After a woman is married in an orthodox setting her hair should be covered either by a sheital ( wig) or hat, whatever. You should be ascribing to the practice of tzniut –
modesty in the way one dresses and acts.. keeping Kosher a truly kosher couple would not even eat at a restaurant where it is not kosher they would probably drink water if even.. but the restaurants where they dine frequently are totally treif ( not kosher) being Jewish is not just going to shul on a saturday it embodies the entire way of being and your life. there are different levels yes.. but I take affront to this couple saying they are orthodox.. yet they do not live an orthodox life. they are Jewish.. yes i wont argue that .. but Ivanka is not tzniut – short skirts , cleavage , bare arms… nope maybe for reform , conservative , modern orthodox.. but they identify as orthodox.. there is a difference between orthodox and modern orthodox , conservative and reform. They follow some things but they just can’t commit to fully taking on the joy and responsibilityof living a fully orthodox life. I can’t blame her she was not Jewish for the greater part of her life.. she has to work through the process .. Jared i am much more disappointed in .. It’s like they put on this orthodox outfit when it suits them, being orthodox is not an outfit.. it should be your skin! .. but at the end of the day all i can see what is in the public eye.. perhaps their souls are filled for love of hashem that is all i can hope for. shabbat Shalom to you all 🙂