Lorde on Taylor Swift: ‘It’s like having a friend with an autoimmune disease’

Lorde performs on stage at BBC Radio 1 Weekend

Lorde is promoting her new album, Melodrama, which doesn’t seem to be getting the same rapturous critical praise as her first album. Sophomore slumps are a real thing for artists, and while I haven’t liked any of the songs I’ve heard off of Melodrama, I’m not worried about Lorde. Lorde will be fine. She’s a bright girl and she realizes she’s still developing as an artist, a songwriter and a woman. I’m on Team Lorde for the most part, I just wish she would stop referring to herself as a “witch,” which she did again in this Guardian profile. Girl, you are not a witch! At least in this profile, she didn’t talk about the ghost of David Bowie looking over her every day. Sigh…

What she wears & how she feels when a man documents her style: “One of my favourite things is reading in magazines what I wear from the perspective of a male journalist. Always interesting.”

Being friends with someone as famous as Taylor Swift: “It’s like having a friend with very specific allergies. There are certain places you can’t go together. Certain things you can’t do. There are these different sets of considerations within the friendship. It’s like having a friend with an autoimmune disease.”

Again with calling herself a “witch”: “I’m like an old witch when I talk. I do meander. But I always come back around.”

She’s parted ways with many of the people who helped her in her early days: “It was really just a case of going where the work needed me to go. It’s hard to have ill-will with that. I’m the nucleus of what’s happening. And I’m going to take that to a lot of places in my career. I don’t think there’s anything strange about that.”

Breaking up with James Lowe: “I probably did drink too much. But it was, uh, an enlightening time. Obviously break-ups are very complex. And, for me, I found that it wasn’t this year of mourning followed by a year of light. I think you can feel a rushing freedom and be elated by that, and then that same day have this sadness hit you and for two hours feel the worst you’ve ever felt. It was a marbled experience.”

Staying with Jack Antonoff & Lena Dunham when in New York: “I love that family. That apartment. I’d go there every day, root around in the fridge… There was definitely an element of popping down the hall and Lena being, like, ‘What are you working on today?’ I felt like their child.”

Writing music about love, boyfriends, exes: “I think it’s great. That there’s going to be a lyric like this out in the world, and that anyone who is potentially interested in meeting me hears it. It is a difficult thing, the relationship between writing about people and knowing them. Loving them. But it comes with the package. Because, y’know, make no mistake about who I am.”

Worries about a sophomore slump: “When your first record is so well received, at such a fledgling time, you think: ‘God, what if I develop? And what if they don’t like who I develop into? What if they want me to go back to being an embryo?’… I’ve talked to other artist friends about a moment in their careers when they’ve felt themselves stop getting better. So it was almost nice, in a way, to come to this second record and realise: ‘Ooooh, I can still be crap at this.’ It meant there was still so much to learn.”

Who she wants to be:
“I want to be really, really good one day. I think I’m pretty good now. I think I’ve made a good start. But I want to be Paul Simon.” She thumps her hands down hard on the table. “I want to be Leonard Cohen.” (Thump.) “I want to be Joni.” (Thump.) “F–king.” (Thump.) “Mitchell.” (Thump.) “And that takes time.”

[From The Guardian]

How does it make you feel to hear Lorde compare friendship with Taylor Swift to a friend with an autoimmune disease? It’s a really strange – and perhaps unfortunate and offensive – comparison, and yet she sort of explained it perfectly, because I totally got what she was saying. Even more than that, I bet it’s weird to be part of Taylor’s girl squad “performance.” To be fair, Lorde never did the performative girl-squad thing like some of Tay’s friends. As for Lorde’s explanation of blind-item lyrics about exes and boyfriends… again, it’s not Taylor Swift-level, where Tay leaves all of these clues and then makes references in interviews, like she can’t wait for fans to solve the riddles. Lorde is just singing about some guy she hooked up with, someone whose identity we’ll never know because she’s actually pretty private. Still not a witch though.

Update: Lorde did apologize on Twitter for the autoimmune comment, tweeting: “i f–ked up & that was really insensitive. i’m sorry”

Lorde performs on stage at BBC Radio 1 Weekend

Photos courtesy of Pacific Coast News.

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54 Responses to “Lorde on Taylor Swift: ‘It’s like having a friend with an autoimmune disease’”

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  1. Kate says:

    I enjoy Lorde’s quote about TS more without context.

    • perplexed says:

      She must have known the jokes that Taylor Swift being associated with an autoimmune disease would bring….

    • Jillybean says:

      I appreciate that comment. Everyone has friends that come with certain “anticipated uniqueness” – you understand and love them for it- but you are aware of the complications – you know you get the glory and the grief and you are signed up for it!…. I’m totally stealing her description of that scenario for a couple of my beasties.

    • Bachelorpod says:

      Rock, folk, rap, hip hop and pop music would barely exist if songwriters didn’t write about their romantic lives. That people make such a big deal about Taylor Swift doing exactly that strikes me as completely demented. We need to collectively stop obsessing over Taylor Swift, m’kay people? She’s just a singer/songwriter like all the singer/songwriters before her and all the singer/songwriters to come. Let it go already.

  2. milla says:

    I saw that she apologized for that comment…

  3. perplexed says:

    I was surprised by her revelation that she drank too much.

    I don’t think her music is bad, but I find her singing voice a little grating to listen to, depending on the song. Especially live.

  4. Slowsnow says:

    What is it with the witch thing? If you accept the very good explanation – a parallel – with someone with an auto-immune disease which is, incidentally, a good image of fame why not accept this idea that she is in a counter-culture, which is probably what she means by ‘witch’. This culture of offensiveness is sometimes a bit much. It’s good to be kept in check but come on.

    • TrixC says:

      I agree. People seem to think it’s offensive to Wiccans, but Wiccans don’t own the word witch, to most people it has a much broader meaning.

    • Oh-Dear says:

      My granny uses the term witch for anyone she disagrees with or thinks is nasty. For her, it was a more acceptable insult than anything else, so maybe its something she grew up with as an identity for non-compliant girls? I haven’t ever heard her other comments, so I have no idea what she typically says though.

  5. Goats on the Roof says:

    I have celiac disease, and I took what Lorde said without offense. She’s not wrong, although I do imagine some will take issue with her wording.

    • RedOnTheHead says:

      Agree. I have lupus and I wasn’t the slightest bit offended by her remark. It was a strange comment, but not offensive. At least to me. And she’s not wrong…..TS is like an autoimmune disease in that she won’t go away!

      • Megan says:

        I am highly allergic to shellfish and that has to be taken into consideration every time I go to a restaurant so I get what she is saying.

    • Emma says:

      Same. Not offended at all. Eye rolling about the apology.

      • PippiLongdivision says:

        Another one here with auto-immune issues, and I think that description quite apt. Auto-immune issues can require anyone in their sphere to alter behavior and accommodate special requirements. Exactly, it would seem, what TS does to the people in her orbit. Kind of a perfect description, really.

        Also, I love that she calls herself a witch. I always think of the witches in Terry Pratchett’s novels; wise, powerful, mouthy, compassionate women. Take back the word from the patriarchy that would have you think self-actualized women, un-cowed and unconcerned with arbitrary norms, are ugly/irritating/to be feared.

    • Oh-Dear says:

      I have Hashimotos, and I was going to say the same thing. I was not offended, and thought it was nice that she’s the type of friend who considers her friends’ dietary needs and will make sure they can eat safely.

    • CharlotteCharlotte says:

      I have an auto-immune disorder and am okay with what she said. I have to be careful everywhere because of my many allergies and lack of immune system, and I wish that more people understood that I just can’t go some places. Being super famous must come with a lot of restrictions.

      • Jillybean says:

        But that would just be hanging out on YouTube or Reddit or 4 Chan these days… artistic connections have done 360 sinc those days… and you know those artists would’ve beeen on the cutting edge on thos outlets today …😊

    • Sojaschnitzel says:

      I have multiple auto immune disorders and I found it slightly offensive for the first split second, then somehow funny.

  6. JeanGenie says:

    If she wants to be like Joni/Leonard/Paul, then she should start hanging out with legitimate artists and innovators — not bubblegum, image-obsessed pop stars.

    • Jillybean says:

      But that would just be hanging out on YouTube or Reddit or 4 Chan these days… artistic connections have done 360 sinc those days… and you know those artists would’ve beeen on the cutting edge on thos outlets today …😊

  7. detritus says:

    Id say shes more Dame Edna with the style than a wiccan.
    She does need to chill on the witch talk though, it seems like something someone called her that really hurt and shes trying to reclaim it, or something. it keeps cropping up.

    • OhDear says:

      I get a bit of try-hard “but I’m not your typical bubbly pop star” vibe from her, particularly with her witch comments.

      • WeAreAllMadeofStars says:

        Ya. She’s like a high school kid that takes themself too seriously and thinks that if they wear black all the time and identify as a goth or a witch, they’re going to find themselves an identity. Good luck with that.

  8. JA says:

    I always thought it was weird that no one made a big deal about that fact that she was dating a 23-25 year old man when she was 16. It was similarly sick to Kylie and Tyga but it I often heard how she was sooo mature and an old soul. I really liked her when she came out but when i read about her and the things she says, she sounds so far up her own arse. That dude she was dating should have a sticker that says creeper so everyone knows… her mom gave up patenting as soon as the checks came

    • WeAreAllMadeofStars says:

      She’s super far up her own azz- look at all the people she’s friends with. I think the age of consent is much lower than it is in the US though.

  9. QQ says:

    Engh! Weird Comparison but I understood what she meant, Princess Snowflake of the Special Love Song is Special and an attention magnet, I’m sure you can’t just open air take her to Disneyworld during working hours etc!

    BUT THIS?!?!; “ Obviously break-ups are very complex. And, for me, I found that it wasn’t this year of mourning followed by a year of light. I think you can feel a rushing freedom and be elated by that, and then that same day have this sadness hit you and for two hours feel the worst you’ve ever felt. It was a marbled experience.” –> she is Talking about me!! to a T!, I was discussing this with my gfs this very actual feeling of sadness and relief and elation about possibilities, and also with my mom, cause she wants me to be sadder and weepier and she is 100% more concerned with my ex ( as my apt ceiling is crumbling bit by bit and I’m still not missing any work days etc – Mid moving myself one car trip at a time, basically unassisted, Right? but she wonders why am i not more despondent? I explained to her that that wont do or serve me in this time, I need to be Wonder Woman Strong on the Bullsh*t and get ‘er done, there will be a time for MORE sads, but I don’t have time for it TODAY)

    • dodgy says:

      @QQ, yeah I understood what she meant too. Of all the pop stars out there, Lorde is the least offensive. She seems to put a lot of thought into songs, and that’s fine.

  10. NeoCleo says:

    If she’s not practicing the religion then she is NOT a witch and she needs to quit that sh*t NOW. From someone who REALLY does practice Wiccan.

    • Algernon says:

      Are we sure the witch stuff isn’t some kind of Kiwi slang? The way she uses it seems interchangeable with old lady. I don’t know enough about her to know if she’s into Wicca, but whenever I’ve heard her refer to herself as a witch she seems to mean it as old lady.

    • Shelly says:

      She doesn’t have to be Wiccan to be a witch.
      This coming from someone who is Wiccan as well.
      There are other Pagan beliefs and practioner’s
      that consider themselves to be witches.
      Sorry but Wiccans don’t have a corner on that.
      Many healers and herbalist’s who have pagan beliefs also consider themselves witches.

      It’s fully possible she is using the term as a unfortunate description but it’s also possible she has pagan beliefs and because of that legitimately considers herself a witch

      It doesn’t need to be a formal religion. As an example you have Catholics, Protestant, Methodist, Mormans, Baptists, Jehovah’s witnesses, Brethren and people who don’t practice a formal religion but still believe in God and Jesus who all call themselves Christians. And truly believe they are, but the others who call themselves that say the others are not. (I grew up in the Christian faith, and the fighting over who can call themselves Christian is a huge thing)

      So it could be she is just using it as a description that has a different meaning to her, or she does feel she is a witch.
      My point is, Wiccans don’t own the term. It is a very old term that encompasses many different belief systems.
      So I think some people need to sit down and chill.

  11. Kazzzzz says:

    I like her sunglasses.

  12. Some Hussy says:

    As someone with multiple autoimmune disorders of varying severity, I will admit that her comment rubbed me the wrong way but I’m not going to grab a torch or anything. It’s true that both situations do add another layer of complexity to friendships but the difference is fame is voluntary and autoimmune disorders are not. Taylor Swift has worked very hard to become a massive celebrity brand and I don’t think we should discount her effort by comparing it to illness. I’ve had to give up a lot of things because of my disorders but if there was something I could give up that would rid me of them I would (except maybe friends and families). Taylor Swift has the option of one day fading into obscurity. Barring medical breakthroughs, I’m stuck with my illnesses for the rest of my life.

    • diane says:

      +1000 agreed fame is voluntary the pain I feel each day is not. Well said Hussy…

      • Carrie says:

        Agree, well said Hussy. Another layer to it is that many with chronic illness are ostracized or criticized for having an illness. Not every sick person has good support. Some have had horrible people close to them and are already marginalized and scared dealing with it all alone. So, yeah, her apology may not have been needed by all but I guarantee there were a good number of some who did need it. Insensitive it was, though I don’t blame her for it only because she is young and clearly of artistic sensibilities.

        I love this and may borrow it:- “It was a marbled experience.” … how great is that?

  13. rachel says:

    I actually think she pulled of her second album. Most of the critic I read called it the best pop album of 2017 so far. And she is heading for her first number one at the Billboard, of course I don’t know what it means yet in term of pure sales.

    • perplexed says:

      Apparently Katy Perry opened at number one, and for some reason her album has been declared a flop. I don’t get how the system works nowadays.

      • rachel says:

        @Perplexed I think people have other griefs against Katy Perry so they insist on calling this era a flop. While it’s true that she didn’t sell has much as her precedent album, Witness is not a flop. I think Katy Perry problems are really marketing oriented.

      • Magnoliarose says:

        It is based on expectation and past sales for the particular artist. Katy’s record is a flop for her but the same numbers would be an indie band’s success.

    • Christo says:

      Agreed on the Lorde album. I listened to it on the first day it came out. It is definitely my favorite album of the year. It is moody, dark and brooding at times, but has its happy, anthemic points as well. You must listen to Sober, Homemade Dynamite, The Louvre, Writer in the Dark—-all are hits in my book. The soundscapes that she and her producers use really work with her voice. I love a good album that sticks with you long after the playback has stopped, which is truly rare these days. Lorde definitely got some inspiration from the 80’s; some of the tracks sound like they would fit in with a mid-80’s John Hughes movie. Love the album.

      Regarding Katy’s album, it isn’t terrible. I actually liked the throwback fun of Bon Appetit, Chained to the Rhythm, and Swish Swish. Anything that lightens my mood in the age of Trump is a worthy distraction in my book. That said, there were no other tracks that stood out for me other than Witness.

      • DelilahJones says:

        I just wanted to echo everything you said about Melodrama, Christo. The ones you named, along with Supercut and Hard Feelings, are my standout songs and John Hughes totally crossed my mind while listening!

    • TrixC says:

      It’s at 90 on metacritic, I’d say that qualifies as a rapturous critical reception.

      • MB says:

        Came to the comments to say exactly this. Its been a while since I have seen a pop album so well received. I dont think Melodrama qualifies as an album experiencing the Sophomore Slump.

  14. Lindy79 says:

    Ooh I bet she got slammed by TayTay for that one. I got her meaning but it was poorly worded and she apologised so fair enough.

    Green Light is a jam

    • Lauren II says:

      Lorde has made a prolific/biological statement about TS that will live on forever.
      Katy Perry, Diplo and all Swifty’s Exes are bowing down to Lorde for speaking the Truth.

  15. ValM99 says:

    Her comparison to aids really triggered me. MY cousin died from aids bc her immune system was weakened, so she caught the flu. It’s a terrible disease to watch someone you love die to. But I’m glad she’s apologized & realized how dumb she sounded. Besides that I never knew why she was friends with Taylor. She seems beyond the fame games that Taylor & her squad flaunts

    • TrixC says:

      She wasn’t referring to AIDS, that’s not an autoimmune disease where the body attacks its own tissues. Examples of autoimmune diseases are diabetes, rheumatoid arthritis, lupus etc – chronic conditions but not normally lethal.

  16. Alex says:

    I’m not offended but some might be. Good on her for owning up to it quickly.
    I actually love Melodrama. It’s still the same Lorde but she’s clearly older now. Lots of highs and lows as well.
    Already got tickets to her concert for next year.

  17. Jaylee says:

    I like her music & the witch thing is cool with me. Stevie Nicks did it first and she did it better but God bless. Waiting for the editorial of Lorde with 2 huge crows on either shoulder in a graveyard or some shit.

  18. Adele Dazeem says:

    This apology required for everything culture is really making me tired, and I say that as someone w an autoimmune disease AND A die hard east coast elitist liberal but HOLY SHT everyone is offended by everything these days. It’s these types of ‘offensive comments’ followed by outrage and apologies that gives those trump idiots grist for the mill.

    • Magnoliarose says:

      So much THIS! I don’t like censorship and I don’t like these apologies either. Most of them are not sincere they are just said to appease the public.

    • Ange says:

      I totally agree. I have RA so no friends will be able to take me rock climbing or, I dunno, to a sign language class any time soon but so what? Jesus it’s not like we’re an oppressed group.

  19. Ozogirl says:

    I still find it very strange that those two are friends… Lorde seems the type that would be above that high school “squad” BS.

  20. Shannon says:

    One of my best friends has an autoimmune disease, and it was kind of similar. Probably an insensitive comparison, though, but she’s young. We all say things that could inadvertantly offend someone at some point; the important thing is to apologize sincerely. Everyone will forget it the next time Trump twitter rants so no worries.

  21. asdf says:

    Honestly friendship or love affair with taylor swift must be like autoimmune disease