On Sunday, a 26-year-old white man named Devin Patrick Kelley stormed into First Baptist Church in Sutherland Springs, Texas. He wore a tactical vest and carried an assault rifle. Before he even entered the church, he shot and killed two people. Inside the church, he killed 24 people, including children as small as five years old. Devin Patrick Kelley had a history of violence – he had been court martialed in November 2012 for assaulting his wife and child.
This mass shooting came just a few weeks after the deadliest mass shooting in America of all time, the mass shooting in Las Vegas, where 58 people died and hundreds were injured with gunshot wounds. The Texas mass shooting also comes just days after a terrorist attack in New York which left eight people dead. The New York terrorist attack was committed by a radicalized ISIS agent and Uzbek national living legally in America. The reaction from Donald Trump to the New York terrorist attack was to call for a radical overhaul of the immigration system, the end to the “lottery system” part of immigration, and to call for the Uzbek terrorist to be sent to Gitmo and/or sentenced to death. This was Trump’s reaction to the Sutherland Springs mass shooting:
President Donald Trump said Monday that Sunday’s mass shooting at a Texas church “isn’t a guns situation” but instead “a mental health problem at the highest level.” Asked at a joint press briefing with Japanese Prime Minister Shinzo Abe if he would consider pressing for gun control measures in the wake of America’s second mass shooting in a month, Trump said “mental health is your problem here,” calling the shooter a “very deranged individual” with “a lot of problems over a long period of time.”
Trump dismissed guns as the root of the problem in Sunday’s shooting, saying “we could go into [gun control policy], but it’s a little bit too soon.” He highlighted reports that a resident with a rifle confronted the gunman, saying the shooting otherwise “would have been much worse.”
“It’s a very, very sad event. These are great people,” he said. Earlier, Trump called the incident a “murderous attack” that embodied an “act of evil’ during his first public remarks on the shooting since he awoke to them in Japan on Monday morning.
“We pull together and join hands and lock arms,” Trump said, offering words of support to Texans before continuing with his remarks to business leaders here in Japan. “And through the tears and through the sadness, we stand strong. Oh, so strong.”
“These are great people” – because it wouldn’t be as sad to him if the victims were not white Southern church-goers? It “isn’t a guns situation” but a mental health situation… okay, so let’s talk about mental health. Let’s talk specifically about how people who have a history of mental illness and domestic violence shouldn’t be allowed to own guns, assault rifles and automatic weapons. Let’s start there. And just to be clear, Trump only gives a sh-t about the victims in this situation because he believes they are his voters. And he’s only showing deference to the community because the shooter was white. If the shooter had a skin color a shade darker than Ivanka’s, Trump would be using this tragedy for petty political purposes within minutes of the shooting.
Photos courtesy of Getty.
He’s right. Cos the people who allow this to happen again and again have mental health issues.
Ha. Sob.
Trump signed into law a bill that makes it easier for people with a history of mental illness to buy guns.
Yes, Megan. They’re talking about it on MSNBC right now. Trump probably forgot he did this already.
If he even knew what he was signing in the first place 🙄
I agree. And guns terrify me. But I’d like to point out that in the article I read, he ALREADY was barred from owning guns because of his discharge due to bad conduct in the military, and he served a year in “confinement” before being discharged. So, he was legally not allowed to own guns.
True, he shouldn’t have been able to purchase a gun, but the military doesn’t make this sort of information available for background checks. The law is set up as such, that they expect the gun applicant to be 100% truthful. So the gun man should have revealed his background, that’s their logic.
I just read that they are only banned from owning guns if it was a Dishonorable Discharge. He had a Bad Conduct Discharge and gun ownership is not banned with that one. Here is the link but you have to scroll quite a ways down to get to this information.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_discharge
It takes one to know one
Totally agree on all of this. But I don’t know what to say or do anymore. I just want to yell and throw things.
Yeah, I’ve mostly been numb since Sandy Hook but yesterday I felt so filled with rage and helplessness. A couple people on twitter were posting a list of how much money individual congressmen get from the NRA and their calls for “prayers” in the wake of the shooting. A shooting that occurred in a church where people were, you know, praying. If I was capable of tears, I think I’d have been sobbing.
Most pro gun republicans no longer support the NRA. They have their own agenda that doesn’t necessarily align with what the actual people want.
This guy wasn’t supposed to own or be in possession of guns. Disallowing the ownership of firearms wouldn’t have prevented this.
That makes no sense Hmmmnottoday.
If no one owns guns, then this wouldn’t have happened. Argue the 2nd Amendment if you want to, but that is false. In countries where guns are banned, they don’t have mass shootings several times a year.
If pro-gun Republicans don’t support the NRA then who does? If that were true, they would collapse from bankruptcy.
@MagnoliaRose, forget “several times a year.” We’re getting to several times a WEEK.
It is unfreakingbelievable that people in a position to change this are allowing it to continue.
Lorelai is correct – we’re seeing reports several times a week. In addition to this one and the NYC one recently, there was the Walmart shooting (3 killed), some guy killed his wife and children (at least 3 dead), and that’s just the ones that made it to my phone’s news feed.
Fact is that in the US, they all are essentially mentally ill, including the few who attach themselves to ISIS. That’s the American pattern. It might be different elsewhere, but men here are very attracted to guns and they are easy to get. So when their thinking gets twisted, instead of throwing a punch they are likely to go for a gun (and likely already have one). The guy in NYC may have used a truck precisely because guns are harder to get in the city and maybe he wasn’t a long-term planner. Or maybe he was imitating European and British attacks, where guns are scarcer and so vehicles have been used as weapons.
Don’t despair. People felt that Big Tobacco was immortal but they were wrong. It IS possible to take down a powerful lobby, people like us are the only thing that has ever done it.
Watch this: https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/sam-bee-highlights-key-to-stopping-mass-shootings-the-boyfriend-loophole_us_59fb2f6de4b0b0c7fa388b85
Making it harder for domestic abusers to get firearms is our best bet. It’s achievable for tough on crime republicans, most Americans support it. Look up your states policies, it might surprise you! But whatever you do, do not despair… ACT
<3
Big Tobacco was taken down by a massive class action suit brought by states. During W’s tenure, a preemption law was passed that shields the gun industry from any and all litigation. It is illegal to bring the kind of class action suits that forced Big Tobacco to change against the gun industry.
Megan, I understand that but it’s just an example, it may not be the same mechanism (although that legislation is reversible). There may first be a “corporate” solution (i.e. Requiring all gun owners to carry insurance in case of accidents). There might be a criminal law solution (upping enforcement of firearm confiscation for violent criminals). There’s a lot to be done but there is a lot we can do.
Hmmmmnottoday: Bullsh-t. Go look up how much cash how many current “pro gun Republicans” have recently taken. Go look at the approval ratings for their health policy, their tax policy, etc. and get back to me with how much they give a sh-t about whether or not their policies “align with what the actual people want.” Hint: They don’t.
Also, yes, some criminals will always get their hands on crazy weapons. However, making it as difficult as possible to get these weapons meant for nothing other than killing loads of people DOES make a difference. There’s a reason we’re the only advanced country on the planet with this recurring problem. And this “well, gun laws won’t do anything” argument is crap. So, I guess we shouldn’t have any laws then, right? I mean, criminals are still going to break them, right? So, f-ck it, let’s just scrap all the laws.
I find this kind of Shrug Emoji response to be extremely entitled and ill-informed. I am beyond sick of this sh-t. 26 people are dead, 2nd worse shooting in US history – IN A MONTH – and y’all got “well, this guy wasn’t supposed to have a gun” so, ya know, whatevs, nothing to do, thoughts and prayers, move along. GMAFB with that mess.
Here’s a newsflash for all the 2A worshippers: Just about EVERY right has limitations. You don’t have the right to yell FIRE in a crowded theater. Do you think 2A is supposed to be completely unlimited? Do you think 2A means ppl should have their own godd-amn bazookas? How about their own nuclear arsenal? NO. And please spare me the gov’t tyranny defense crap. If the gov’t decides to use force against the people, guess what, automatic rifles are not going to protect anyone from drones and bombs.
Well said. But sadly I think you’re preaching to the choir. The 2A argument is especially infuriating to me because it was created and spread by none other than the NRA.
“And please spare me the gov’t tyranny defense crap. If the gov’t decides to use force against the people, guess what, automatic rifles are not going to protect anyone from drones and bombs.”
Looking in from outside the US, this is one of the weirdest arguments by the pro-gun lobby. Because the US already has a more repressive and militarised police force than any other developed nation. How has this uber-armed citizenry prevented that?
I think you guys have locked yourselves into an unending domestic arms race. It’s really, really sad to see.
He was denied a license to carry by the state, probably bc of his court martial for domestic abuse, so they need to investigate how he was able to purchase legally and close that loophole.
Sixer: Regarding the militarized police force, that’s actually the point.The pro-gun lobby’s argument is one that really does make sense in theory, but not so much in practice.
The US Constitution was written from the standpoint of an inherent distrust in government: unlike tyranny or even monarchy, all forms of government must answer to the People, as the People are ultimately the ones in charge. It is the job of the citizenry to keep government–and those who serve in government–in check.
One of the best ways that this is exemplified is by the fact that the head of the US military is the President–a civilian, not a military officer. The People vote for the President–an office with a 2-term limit–and the President can be removed from office, following impeachment (impeachment does not guarantee removal from office). Only Congress can declare war; the President cannot do so unilaterally.
In that vein, the pro-gun lobby’s argument is that for the government (police are part of government) to be more heavily armed than the citizenry is to put the rights and freedoms of the citizenry at risk. An unarmed (or lesser-armed) citizenry is vulnerable to tyranny, as it can not only be overpowered by heavily-armed government servants, but is also dependent upon the government for its safety and self-defense.
An “unending domestic arms race” is exactly what it is.
It’s sad, TuxCat5, it really is. I looked at that Gun Violence Archive website the other day and it’s shocking
I understand the potence of founding myths – God knows, Britain has enough of them – but at some point, you have to let them go, don’t you?
I don’t get this phobic obsession Americans have about being armed to defend themselves against their own government. I really don’t. The Land of the Free? That’s a joke when your so afraid or your own democratically (supposedly) elected government you use it as an excuse to stash huge amounts of weapons. You’re not free at all.
“A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.”
-was adopted on December 15, 1791.
Why would we be beholden to something written when the world was different when the Bill of Rights was adopted. America was a nation just at the beginning of existence.
As we evolve and progress, we should have laws that reflect the dangers that plague us now. What is so precious about a document executed when guns were muskets and dueling pistols? Why does that make sense to anyone? What is the point of a bumper stock other than to murder large numbers people like the sniper used in Las Vegas?
Every argument and excuse is becoming hollower while gun owners prize their weapons more than human life. This freewheeling gun culture isn’t freedom or liberty.
As this becomes a regular story on the news and Americans clutch their guns tighter, we will be heading towards something horrific enough to shake them out of their fog. After everything that has happened and it hasn’t changed, I fear even to imagine what event must take place for it to finally be enough.
@Sunshine, the reason you don’t get it is because you’re clearly sane and logical, and the people who spout this ridiculousness are neither.
In addition to these very good points, I think there’s also a cultural/social argument. Yes, even with all the gun control in the world, there may still be ways for someone to get their hands on a gun. But in very few other countries is it such a point of pride to gleefully own and acquire guns. That’s a cultural thing that comes from all the trumpeting of the 2nd Amendment. I’m a naturalized citizen, but even my very liberal American friends, when you bring up gun control, say things like “To support a gun control measure, I would need evidence that it would actually work, and very few proposed measures have that evidence”. But they hold very few other things to such standards – they support things like climate/energy policies even though they don’t have PROOF that they will combat global warming. But when it comes to gun control, even with many liberals/progressives, it’s different. It would take a long time, but by getting serious about gun control and the damage guns can do, perhaps the culture would also change. And then even if this guy could somehow stockpile 20 guns in a year without being legally detected, one of his neighbors/friends might notice and think, ‘that’s just weird, I should report him’.
Tuxcat – It really is baffling. The Second Amendment was written in a time when the former colonies were concerned about assigning the only right to raise a militia to the central government – they wanted the states to maintain their right to also have state militias. That’s clear from reading material written at the time, it all was debated in writing. That’s what the Second Amendment was about.
Individual gun ownership wasn’t a concern at the time. Soldiers were going into battle wearing swords…. They had muskets and cannons, which took time to reload. They had bows and arrows. Rich idiots fought duels with pistols that fired a single shot. Nobody cared if you owned such weapons (although a cannon in your front yard might get a few stares). There is nothing in the Constitution or Bill of Rights prohibiting gun ownership, so it always has been up to individual communities to decide what is allowed and where.
But there also is nothing there that guarantees the right of an individual to own any gun. We can certainly decide to have national laws banning the kinds of weapons that have no useful purpose except mass murder and setting national standards for background checks and regulations on what keeps you from buying a gun. Such weapons did not exist in the 1700s, of course they didn’t say anything about it. That just wasn’t a problem. They didn’t have guns that could slip into a pocket, either. Technology changes quite a bit in more than 200 years.
Honestly, we don’t just let anybody drive a car. And your license can be lifted for various violations. Why should we let just anybody have a weapon that can shoot several hundred people in a few minutes?
Yea but the guy that ran over people yesterday means we need to close immigration loopholes…or something. But a white guy who assaulted his wife? Sure he can get some guns. And he’s “mentally ill”
If it wasn’t so transparent i would be more angry and the stupid narratives white people push for their own. Brown people= terrorists
White people= lone wolf who needed help.
We won’t remember this shooting in a week.
No we won’t. Our country is so far in the sh^tter I don’t see a way back out, ever.
Not all white people, Racist white people. You are right. If it was a minority, crime, gangs, killing each other, something along those lines. White guy, mental illness!
Considering the amount of engrained racism in the dominant white society…I stand by my statement
And white people need to understand that they aren’t valued either unless they’re rich and male. Please refer to this year’s body count. You’re being slaughtered too. The message is that your white life doesn’t matter either. Join the rebellion. We all deserve better.
He was denied a license to carry by the state, probably bc of his court martial for domestic abuse, so they need to investigate how he was able to purchase legally and close that loophole.
Because 45 threw out Obama’s executive order prohibiting mentally ill people from owning guns. There is no loophole.
“President Donald Trump quietly signed a bill into law Tuesday rolling back an Obama-era regulation that made it harder for people with mental illnesses to purchase a gun.
The rule, which was finalized in December, added people receiving Social Security checks for mental illnesses and people deemed unfit to handle their own financial affairs to the national background check database.
Had the rule fully taken effect, the Obama administration predicted it would have added about 75,000 names to that database.
President Barack Obama recommended the now-nullified regulation in a 2013 memo following the mass shooting at Sandy Hook Elementary School, which left 20 first graders and six others dead. The measure sought to block some people with severe mental health problems from buying guns.”
” Both the House and Senate last week passed the new bill, H.J. Res 40, revoking the Obama-era regulation.
Trump signed the bill into law without a photo op or fanfare. The president welcomed cameras into the oval office Tuesday for the signing of other executive orders and bills. News that the president signed the bill was tucked at the bottom of a White House email alerting press to other legislation signed by the president.
The National Rifle Association “applauded” Trump’s action. Chris Cox, NRA-ILA executive director, said the move “marks a new era for law-abiding gun owners, as we now have a president who respects and supports our arms.”
NBC News February 28th, 2017
Add to that repealing Obamacare which means less mental health care and access to medications or therapy so that an unmedicated person with serious mental health issues can buy guns. Buckle up because it is only the beginning courtesy of 45.
Gun dealers basically work on the honor system that they will run background checks on purchasers, will report suspected straw purchasers, etc. As we can see, the lax nature of existing gun laws and the nearly nonexistent enforcement of them means anyone can buy a gun.
In some states, you don’t need a background check to legally purchase from gun show or person-to-person sale, and online.
Additionally, background checks only are as good as the states reporting to the database. Many states don’t submit the information.
Just saw on Twitter let’s ban guns and when people complain about it, let’s just send them thoughts and prayers.
Ha! I like that proposition.
Let them keep their guns but make bullets illegal
@Baum, I actually think that cracking down on ammunition is probably our only hope at this point.
I don’t expect it to *happen* in my lifetime, but it would be the logical first step toward combating this, IMO.
Now there’s an idea. I like it. It’s just the right amount of F-ck you to the NRA, gun lobbyists and the ding dong second amendment fanatics who live in fear that the gubment is gonna take their guns.
Well, he can’t go against the NRA, they were a supporter of his campaign. POS, how many have to die before we tighten gun laws?
I’M SO FU-KING SICK OF DONALD J TRUMP!!!!!!
Sorry for the caps but I’m literally screaming inside.
Firstly, he couldn’t even speak from the heart, instead he coldly reads words written for him with next to no emotion. He’s incapable of projecting empathy, the psycho.
Then he says it’s a mental health issue, mental health care will be significantly less available with the cuts to health. Also, it’s illegal for (CDC or any other organization) to study the effects and correlation between mental health and gun violence.
In addition, he says this is not the time to talk about gun control, they said these exact words after Vegas, and week’s later, another shooting and nothing has changed! When is the right time?
Also, he was quick to suggest policy changes in “terrorist” attacks, but here, thoughts and prayers… THOUGHTS AND PRAYERS.
How many more people need to die?
I’m emotionally exhausted.
Agree with everything. And, yeah, he can shove the meaningless “thoughts and prayers.” Everyone murdered, while in church, was thinking and praying. Fucker.
It’s not a gun issue. It is a Paul Ryan is an evil troll who gets off on seeing people killed and the money the NRA gives him not to do his job of passing laws to keep people safe issue.
These guys are commiting mass shootings with toy guns. Idiot. And let’s not pretend that all of these lone gunmen are mentally ill. Some are just violent, homicidal fucking dirtbags filled with rage, misanthropy and self-aggrandizement. Peaceful BLM protesters are race baiting, anti-American thugs but Dylan Roof Just needs a good therapist? gtfoh.
They are ill. They are far from normal. Now, why can anyone have a gun? I don’t really get that part.
Also, mentally, the whole nation is feeling anxiety and how did that happen?
He’s somewhat right. But he raised question he cannot answer without exposing himself as what he is.
Abnormal doesn’t mean mental illness. No one is trying to round up all the guns but military grade assault weapons havevno place in the hands of the citizenry.
It’s harmful to people who suffer from mental illness to suggest that every shooter is afflicted with the same/similar malady.
And honestly, I think sometimes people underestimate the sheer power of rage and the fuel that it provides.
Mass shooters often share the same level of anger and antisocial behavior as perpetrators of “everyday” gun violence-they’re simply more ambitious in how they choose to channel that anger. We don’t automatically assume the husband who shoots his wife is mentally ill and we shouldn’t do so with mass shooters either.
Mateen, Roof, Eliot Rodger, Seung-Hui Cho all had a documented history of expressing anger and hatred. People who knew them and interacted with them every day knew that they were a threat, knew that they were dangerous, and knew that their perpetual rage would eventually culminate in an act of violence.
As a society we need to understand that being an angry individual is not always indicative of mental illness.
Well said, Enough Already and Kitten. This “mental illness” narrative is simplistic and makes me increasingly nervous that all people who suffer from mental illness are then painted with the same broad brush by the right. Mental illness runs rampant on both sides of my kids’ families yet no one has ever gone on a homicidal shooting spree. Anger and rage is most definitely not indicative of mental illness.
Absolutely, Kitten and Enough (ETA and Esmom :)). Let’s stop saying that these people are mentally ill. Some of them, maybe. But not all. In my roughly 25 years of treating the mentally ill, not one of them has shot anyone. Not one. And VERY few have ever even expressed a desire to kill someone. Most mass shooters come from a place of deep rage and hatred. Could they have had a psychotic break? Probably. But most mass shooters are far too organized and the attack far to planned to attribute to a sudden psychotic break.
It seems they want everyone to have guns. When you roll back allowances for mentally ill people, you put THEM at risk for suicide. Not mass shootings, I totally agree. But if even that small measure is overturned why would anyone care about any gun laws?
What he may have had is PTSD since he was the military. Maybe.
It is a red herring.
We don’t need guns, and it isn’t just the person but the access to guns that kill people. But to admit that would mean stricter laws and less money for the manufacturers.
All logic is thrown out of the window.
@Enough. Well said.
I love these debates. But the thing is, everyone is right (right now). 45 is right, I’m right, you’re right….
Because the NRA has successfully blocked researching gun violence. I wish there was more outrage about this. Essentially, anyone can claim any half-assed good-guy-with-a-gun theory and technically, they aren’t wrong. It really makes me wonder just how deep the rabbit hole goes when the pharmaceutical industry, one of the most profitable industries in the US (if not the world) with lobbyists on call 24/7 can be held to some degree of responsibility with regard to the opioid crisis, but the NRA has consistently blocked even the tiniest of number crunching. If pharmaceutical companies can withstand the backlash, what is the NRA so afraid of? Could they already know it’s much worse than any of us could fathom??
This is what I tell my gun toting, 45 supporting uncle – I’ll drop my issues with guns once there is research for me to look at. But until then, everyone is right, and everyone is wrong and there will never be any progress. None.
I think the NRA know exactly how bad it is. We need a whistle blower.
The “mental illness” may be an institutionalized, pathological sense of privilege and entitlement. From these mass shootings to sexual predation to throwing twitter tantrums about feminism, can we talk about the specific ways we’re failing to raise better white men? And I’m not trying to be an agent provocateur. It really seems to be a problem. There’s problems within other groups, sure. But white guy problems continually get swept under the rug like they don’t exist. We need to talk about it.
ITA with everyone saying this isn’t about mental illness. Like Esmom said, plenty of people have mental illnesses and do *not* go on homicidal rampages nor would ever even think to do so.
It does a real disservice to everyone for our POTUS to make such simplistic statements, although I guess we all know by now not to expert more from this imbecile.
F@#* Trump and the NRA. Didn’t Trump and The Republicans recently roll back Obama Administration regulations that would’ve have prevented the mentally ill from obtaining guns? The hypocrisy is astounding.
Why is it every time a white male goes on a shooting rampage, the first and only defense is mental illness? Anyone else is labeled a thug, terrorist, animal, etc.
I hate saying this, but I believe it to be true. If people of color start committing mass shootings, then you’ll see the NRA, Congress and everyone else yelling for effective gun control measures. No one will give a damn about 2nd Amendment Rights then.
I hate to add this – but only if white people are the victims.
“I hate saying this, but I believe it to be true. If people of color start committing mass shootings, then you’ll see the NRA, Congress and everyone else yelling for effective gun control measures. No one will give a damn about 2nd Amendment Rights then.”
I disagree. Congress will pass a law requiring, nay, demanding, that all White people be armed with assault weapons. With many assault weapons. The NRA has its hand up their asses and is working them like Muppets.
@Jerusha – I’ll take it a step further. I was on one site and a commenter actually said all MEN should be required to have a gun and be tasked with protecting everyone else.
Because men haven’t been the ones shooting up everything already 🙄
The NRA was totally silent when Philando Castile, a lawful gun owner with a carry permit, was gunned down in his car. Philando was a person of color so it didn’t matter that he owned his gun legally. NRA wasn’t concerned with his 2nd amendment rights. Back in the day, when the Black Panthers were arming themselves and demonstrating with weapons, then there was talk of gun control.
It seems the NRA is only concerned with 2nd Amendment rights when it pertains to white people being allowed to arm themselves to the teeth with unnecessary guns. No one needs assault weapons to hunt. But you Gotta increase profits for the gun manufacturers.
You let POC start committing mass shootings of white people, then you’ll see gun control taken seriously.
I see. So once again, POC are supposed to sacrifice their lives to save white lives.
A gun in the hands of a POC in front of a police officer means death. We’ve seen this narrative play out before, countless times.
You want shit to change for white people? Have white women actually do something and demand change from their white male counterparts.
Do not demand that POC use our bodies as shields for you and yours.
Eveil I don’t think anyone was arguing for that, we are just pointing out the numerous hypocrisies involved. I don’t want anyone to commit mass shootings or obtain and carry a gun out of fear or anger. We need to confront gun violence everywhere, in every neighborhood, with every race.
@Eveil. No one is advocating POC sacrifice their lives to save white people. Not sure how you interpreted that from the comments. As Annebelle pointed out, we were highlighting the hypocrisy and double standard that exists with the gun rights lobby and NRA in this country.
“No one is advocating POC sacrifice their lives to save white people.”
But people HAVE suggested/inferred that on Twitter and elsewhere. I understand the desire to point out the hypocrisy but this subject matter makes me so damn uncomfortable. I kind of feel like this is an example of white people swerving out of our lane. Even if the intention is well-meaning, black folks don’t need to hear this shit from us, you know? They’re living it.
Sadly middle-class white people seem to have a bigger platform on race relations than non-whites do I for one abhor racism but I sure as shit don’t need bourgeois white people preaching to me about it.
Sundays are my no-news-days. So when I saw this this morning my own reaction almost made me crawl back into bed because I barely had one. That’s just not normal. But I didn’t even have to go beyond one headline to know it would be a white guy, there would be dead children, nothing would change, and 45 would vomit out words without meaning like “too soon”, “evil” and “guns are not the issue”. This is terrible and so sad and I really don’t have much to say.
Unfortunately, this tragedy seems to have become a regular thing, and it doesn’t shock me anymore when I hear about mass shootings and dozens of innocent people losing their lives. If the mentally ill or people with a criminal record can easily buy any gun or weapon, this problem will never change
We always wait to see the color/religion/country of birth of the shooter. We never wait to see if the shooter is a man. Because we already know.
YUP!
God so true!
I was just saying the other day that men have become really toxic and I don’t trust any of them, regardless of their race/religion/nationality/etc. I read these news and figure it’s a man who did it. I’m legit scared of them. If it’s not killing, it’s s*xual harassment or rape like Weinstein.
Oh God. That is so depressingly true.
Brb. I need to go eat me a piece of chocolate cake and try and go to my happy place.
All of this has happened before, and all of this will happen again.
There is literally no price high enough for lawmakers to let go of gun lobby money or for the NRA to let go of the monstrous power they have been ceded. And frankly, it is just going to escalate as more and more people who should have guns get them without problem.
But yeah, you know-thoughts and prayers, thoughts and prayers. Maybe someday it will magically work.
I feel so sad for Americans. From the outside looking in it seems like minority opinions have your country in a stranglehold. A man who most of your country doesn’t support (and who didn’t get the popular vote) is president; the NRA controls congress and common sense restrictions on guns are impossible; you can’t even get sick without bankrupting yourself (oversimplification, I know, but still). I worry sometimes that if Trump is impeached you’ll end up with armed nut jobs on the streets thinking that they are a well-regulated militia.
They do. They’ve managed to infiltrate all levels of government while progressives took their eye off the ball. I experienced it in local government. While their views seem to be in the minority, voter apathy — and on a national level, gerrymandering — means they still win offices. Watching the rise of the far right wing nuts over the past decade or so has been like watching a train wreck. Fox News has also had a huge hand in this nightmare.
Sometimes I think back to the 1990s and how Faux News and talk radio slid into people’s lives and minds. It really started then, and has basically programmed viewers/listeners all these years.
The repeal of The Fairness Doctrine has helped to ruin this country. If it were still in effect there would be no Faux News.
Really numb to the “so tragic” comments the politicians and NRA advocates makes every time there is a human slaughter.
But we have legislators who will back up these mass killings for a measly $10,000 NRA political donation.
drump and his mental health comments are disturbing. He was given talking points and in his slow-witted, callous way delivered them.
The UK has plenty of people with mental health issues and yet ONE FORTIETH of the gun death rate of the US. It’s almost like it’s lack of a gun that makes it harder to turn people into bulletholes.
And wasn’t it Trump that rescinded Obama-era legislation that would have been a step towards preventing the mentally ill from having access to firearms?
Meanwhile the “Pro-Life” party in Congress have sent their utterly meaningless “thoughts & prayers” tweets, yet will continue in their crusade to fight any and all legislation that actually serves to protect human beings without denying women their bodily autonomy.
I somehow doubt that the God that shrugged his shoulders at the Holocaust is going to step in to solve the US’s one-a-day mass shooting problem, but what do I know…
As I’ve said before, they’re only Pro-Life when it comes to a fetus. After birth, it’s dog eat dog.
I feel like this is a good place to put a reminder that the ACLU fights all gun control. I know a lot of CB readers have donated to them but they really shouldn’t…it’s like giving money to the NRA. There are other human rights groups that could be giving to instead.
The ACLU needs an update, and until they reflect contemporary culture, I don’t donate. There is such thing as limits even my bar is high it is still there. This obsession with the Constitution is misguided. It wasn’t written for 2017 but what the world was like in the 18th century.
And once again nothing will be done to prevent this.
What else would it be tho? Every other economic, social, mental or ideological reason also exists in other countries all around the world (to varying degrees). Yet none of them have those killing sprees. It can only be the guns.
THIS. So much this.
Absolutely.
Right? It’s so glaringly obvious and yet . . . Sigh.
OK, then it is an access to guns problem.
*sigh* I’d like to say I’m surprised by his response but of course, I’m not because a. He’s racist and b. His party benefits massively from NRA money so of course it’s not a gun problem!
From the outside looking in I literally can’t comprehend why some people don’t understand that gun control would make you safer. Who buys into this whole guns make you safer mentality when there are literally thousands of fatal shootings each year in the US?
I see no way to convince these people that gun control is the answer, same as there’s no convincing some people how terrible Trump is.
Someone on twitter yesterday said something like “how do we fix a society that no longer has a mutually agreed upon reality?” That’s it, right there.
If I read one more time “guns don’t kill people, people do” from these NRA types, I’ll scream. Cars don’t kill people, drivers do. Like a gun, a car is a lump of metal that people use. However, to drive you have to be able to pass a bloody TEST. You have to have a LICENCE. The police can check at any time to see if you have your licence. If you misbehave, your licence will be removed. The US situation seems inexplicable to people who don’t live there. The hypocrisy of the trump administration is sickening. RIP, the victims.
Mike Flynn is Flynnished! He’s flipped for MF Jr. And Mueller has Kushner and Wilbur Ross too!
Papadopolous has the goods on all the liars in the WH: Sessions, Michael Cohen, and ultimately, Emperor Zero.
It Mighty Mueller Time!
Yay!!!!!
What source did you get this from?
Awesome. Throw the Trumpsters in the dumpsters !
I can’t remember where I saw it
It is possible to get the news before the MSM gets it or gets it “correct.” Or even reports it (or not). Ignore all that noise on MSM; they like the churning $ machine that the current administration is providing. Plus the MSM (besides maybe Rachel Maddow) is like the fickle child EZ-D is–easily distracted by incidents and their politicization.
All the information available to lock up the entire WH admin plus many others in both parties has been laid out in newspapers and online articles for the past year; yet no one has had the gumption to put all of it together in a coherent way. Mueller has all of it and plans to use his army of a dozen top prosecutors to take the whole banana down.
Eyes on the Prize. Dotard Jr will be arrested soon for conspiring with Russians to exchange sanctions for petty dirt. Eric Sneiderman will be a key figure coming soon to a theatre near you. Kushner will be arrested soon for conspiracy, election fraud through Cambridge Analytica and money laundering (among other small details). Don’t forget Bannon, KellyAnne Conjob, et al for their “work” before and during this administration.
Mmmmm… Bananas!
Notice how the vast majority of these White Male serial killers have charges of domestic abuse prior to their killing sprees (the last Vegas guy being one of the few exceptions). They would be called animals if they were not white. The senate and House of Representatives being mainly White men turn a blind eye to this point over and over again. Heaven forbid we protect women from domestic abuse by denying a person of their race from buying a tool to kill.
Trump of course is bought by the NRA, the religious right and the white supremacist. He just got a bunch of ultra conservative federal judges of his inclination placed his week. Honestly the religious right zealots are the only base who has gotten everything he promised them. His war on women and minorities will now have new soldiers. It’s going to take decades for this country to recover from just his first year in office.
“Notice how the vast majority of these White Male serial killers have charges of domestic abuse prior to their killing sprees (the last Vegas guy being one of the few exceptions).”
Even the non-whites. The Orlando shooter had a history with his ex-wife of him being abusive. The guy from NJ who put the bomb in Chelsea, NYC about a year or two ago had a father with a history of domestic abuse. There is a pattern.
Boy at this point ISIS should just put their feet up, maybe take a vacation. The United States are doing a fantastic job of slaughtering and destroying themselves.
The first step to minimize damage? Types of guns available. Yes we have had mass shootings in Canada…but the type of weapons available SAVES LIVES. So the neighbour who confronted him with a shotgun, very brave, but 26 were already dead and who knows how many were already shot. But what if this animal had only had access to a shotgun too? You do not kill 26 people in that short an amount of time with a shotgun, you just don’t. You can still have your precious guns America…but get smart, it’s time to stop terrorizing yourselves.
If you want to get rid of guns, the simplest way of doing it is to arm every single non-white person in America. That’ll do for guns right quick.
You know you right
That is a terrible idea-look at how Chicago is doing.
You do know Chicago isn’t an all minority city? What is the obsession with Chi-town? The point is racists would make sure it would be banned then since white people think privileges only pertain to them.
The Chicago thing is just obtuse.
Why not Miami or NYC or LA where there are large numbers of minorities? Houston and on and on. But since Obama is from Chicago it has to be Chicago.
Doncha know its not a gun situation? Never, never a gun situation. Just another lone gunman, mental health problem. Move along, nothing to see here.
Do you remember when some Repub pols changed their minds on LGBTQ rights when their children came out? I doubt they would cross the NRA even if their children were victims of one of these massacres.
…clears throat…
FUCK YOU TRUMP
Louder, Lizzie.
. . . saying “we could go into [gun control policy], but it’s a little bit too soon.” . . . Wasn’t this an excuse after the Vegas shooting? It is never to soon to talk about the gun control policy. Also, we have heard no more discussion about banning the bump stock. And, Trump, if this is a mental illness issue, why aren’t you discussing/doing something about not allowing those with mental issues to get a hold of a gun. Oh, that’s right, O’bama wanted to do that and you rolled back his legislation on this subject.
What if we stopped calling them the NRA and started calling them out by name? Would that make a difference? Who is the President of the NRA? Who is the Treasurer? Who is the Secretary of the NRA? What if we named their wives? Would the women come to our aid to stop the gun violence? How can we come at them from another angle? How can we break their powerful choke-hold on United States?
And the Texas Attorney General is calling for more guns in churches. Smdh
A rural county or two away from where I live, some church deacons with carry permits are already going armed during services. Supposedly there have been robberies during church services (not sure where, or if it’s only scare tactics to sell more weapons and bullets).
trump reads his statement off a piece of paper with less emotion than someone reciting a grocery list.
Oh and fuck Gov. Abbott. Guns no problem, need more prayer. Answer to all problems. Yeah, right.
You are so right about Trump. Like everything, he has no substantive thoughts on guns, he’s just reading the talking points given to him. I felt ready to smash my radio this morning when I heard his statement.
Trump has zero empathy. He isn’t interested in other people’s suffering and unlike other sociopaths has never had the need to fake it, him being a property magnate and all. He was more emotional about kneeling footballers than he was about these victims. Rage, grievance, revenge, lechery…those are emotions he feels. Empathy, nope.
These white men are Narcissists who want FAME and don’t care if they’re dead when they get it (they have that in common with suicide bombers). The Las Vegas shooter was a high roller in his mind, not reality, and when the truth sets in it results in angry, rageful acts from tiny little men who see no other way to make their mark on the world.
There is a very clear pyramid to Dump’s reaction’s to tragedies and it’s based entirely on racism and who he perceives to be his voters. And it’s disgusting.
Bottom of the pyramid: This exact set of facts, perpetrator is white guy w/ Anglo name, victims are perceived Rs = thoughts and prayers.
Next level of pyramid: This exact set of facts, perpetrator is white guy w/ Anglo name, victims are perceived Ds = blame a D politician.
Next level up: This exact set of facts (or storm, or fill in the blank), perpetrator is non-white-guy-w/Anglo name, victims are perceived Ds – blame a D politician, invoke racist bullsh-t radical policy.
Top level of pyramid: Perpetrator is non-white-guy w/ Anglo name, victims are perceived Rs – DEF CON EVERYTHING.
This arsehole consistently attacks brown leaders, women leaders, D leaders WHEN THEIR CONSTITUENTS ARE HURT.
I can tell you this. I am from Canada. We don’t carry guns here. In my city (toronto ) we have a lot of people who suffer from mental health issues, but very little problems with shootings etc. It happens but it is rare and is 99% of the time gang related. I can’t even imagine what my city would be like if all the crazies had access to guns.
Anybody have any ideas as to what we could do to help? Are any organizations making progress towards gun control? I would donate to them. I think that the NRA has been so successful because they are one large well-organized group. We need gun control’s answer to the NRA.
To help? Get rid of all the Republicans in Congress. I imagine some Dems are also bought and paid for and squeezed by the balls, but it’s a smaller number. Something might be accomplished then on gun control, climate change, women’s rights, LGBTQ rights, universal healthcare, etc., etc. and so on. Progressive things that make people’s lives better.
Pretty much what Jerusha said. There is nothing else we can do.
Good luck in Alabama. I know it is probably not going to go our way, but it is nice to dream.
Moms Demand Action is a great organization started by a mom the day after Sandy Hook. They’ve now have a chapter in every state.
I hate the Tangerine Terror. I hate gun culture and the NRA. I hate the right wing and their sell out politicians. I hate that people are too stupid or brainwashed to understand voting Republican can be the literal death of you.
I’m trying to get into holiday mode. Trying to stay grateful and thankful. But so many people are being slaughtered, harassed and hurt in “Trump’s America”. And Lord help me, do I hate it. We need peace, healing, and gun control.
I’m so so sorry. So sorry this happened again.
I saw two stories yesterday related to this: 1. a video of people crying in Texas, one of the women was wearing a t-shirt that says “THIS is my gun permit: The Second Amendment!” 2. Someone from that town said something like “this isn’t supposed to happen here, this is only supposed to happen in big cities.”
You know, I’m not a sociopath like Dump so I have plenty of sympathy for these people, but I don’t know folks, maybe look at the manner in which YOUR OWN blind support for certain orgs, policies, politicians contributes to your own suffering. And that comment about big cities is gross on a couple of levels: first of all, all you have to do is pay even cursory attn to the news to know that actually this usually happens in NOT big cities; second, that comment sounds a hell of a lot like “this is only supposed to happen in Chicago, ya know, The Black People, or in Bad Terrible Liberal Cities like New York, etc.
I have no doubt that some of these folks are the same people who were just five minutes ago BLAMING NEW YORKERS for a terror attack b/c New York, ya know, doesn’t hate Muslims, is a sanctuary city, that New Yorkers DESERVE it.
California fires: F-ck those hippies. New York terror attack? Their fault for being “PC.” White guy shoots up a place with a damn military-grade weapon in Texas? Saaaaddd, sooooo saadddd. But let’s do nothing re laws and let’s also really vaguely blame mental illness and add further stigma there.
It IS Sad. Obviously. But you cannot tell me the above dynamics are not in play and as a New Yorker with fam in Cali, I am UP TO HERE with ok so, sh-t happens to me or mine, it’s our fault, we’re arseholds. We fight like hell for policies that MAKE SENSE, that would protect EVERYONE, nothing gets done, then when some sh-t happens to Texas or Florida that WE TOLD YOU shoulda been addressed with climate change policy, gun control, etc., and *WE* are the triggered libtard arseholes.
Dear Dump voters: Hi. Your votes are hurting YOU and EVERYONE ELSE. On any number of issues. Wake the f-ck up. #SorryNotSorry
“Dear Dump voters: Hi. Your votes are hurting YOU” My thoughts and prayers are with this statement.
You said every. damn. thing.
Could not agree with you more.
Yes, I read an article where a couple of the Vegas shooting survivors, who lost family members, were interviewed. They were still opposed to gun control. I can’t even feel bad for them. Any gun rights supporter has to be fully willing to accept that they may have to give their life or lives or their family for their “rights”, and that’s what ended up happening. I feel horribly for their children however, who lost a parent and are innocent in all of this mess we’ve created for them.
This administration has made me selective in my compassion and sympathies. It was against my core belief system until 2015 because of what I have learned about people and how callous and selfish people can be. I gave up finally, and now I don’t care what happens to his voters and supporters. If they want to believe in the circus barker and his corrupt crew, then they are free to live under his crazy. They live in the states where he is policies will do the most damage, so they deserve to suffer the most.
Blue states have residents who care about healthcare and are civic-minded so are more likely to get together to find solutions. I believe we SHOULD go back to state’s rights. We can keep our taxes and trade with each other. To move to one of the blue states you have to apply and leave your gun at the border.
My Pete Souza book, Obama: An Intimate Portrait is arriving tomorrow. It will be such a delight to enjoy the beautiful pictures if a real human being. And sad to contemplate what we’ve lost.
Now I know what to put on my Christmas list.
If domestic violence were the indicator used to prevent folks from owning weapons 40% of cops would be out of a job because they wouldn’t be allowed to carry sooooo for now all we’re gonna hear from our leaders will involve “thoughts and prayers” regarding gun control.
I just feel like f*** it at this point. A bunch of first-graders? A church? A pregnant woman and three of her children in a damn Baptist Church? If this doesn’t get through, nothing will. I seriously can’t even. This country’s love affair with guns is sick.
This situation I agree with him. The man (sorry I don’t know the shooters name), was denied the ability to purchase a gun so the one he used was illegally obtained. He had a history of mental illness that stemmed back from being in the military (shocker). To me, as a mental health professional, mental illness is a serious issue in this country and we aren’t helping ex-military get proper care. Several gunmen used to be ex-military so it’s clear that’s a problem. As far as gun control civilians shouldn’t be allowed to own an assault rifle or anything that can hold more than I’d say 8 bullets. A person with a handgun can’t carry out a mass shooting, but I do believe a handgun should still be allowed as well as rifles/shot guns used for hunting. There is no reason a civilian or really anyone who isn’t currently overseas fighting in a war should own or have access to an AR.
This really tore up my heart and it makes me question God more than ever. How could God sit back and do nothing while his followers are massacred? Where is God in all of this?
I’m guessing God would say don’t look to me, look in the mirror people because you’re the cause of your own troubles through willful blindness to the dangers of weaponry handed out like candy, whether legally, illegally or somewhere in between.
If we can’t even help ourselves what the heck could a god do? We are given free will according to the Bible. Quit blaming gods, it’s humans that are the problem.
This.
If there is a god he’s definitely a “sit back and watch” kind of guy and not a loving intervening god like all major religions want him to be. Look, either god is all loving but powerless to do anything, or he is all powerful but doesn’t care that much. He cannot be both..this is my issue with main stream religion since they all say god is both all loving and all powerful. It’s not loving to watch innocent children to suffer and die. I feel like all religious people just live in denial. Sorry for rant but you did ask the question..
I agree. I get annoyed when people who recover from serious illness or athletes who win a medal claim that it was god that did it. Why didn’t god care about the person who died or who lost the race? Presumably they weren’t godly enough, the losers.
The dead deserve more than the tired old arguments but here I go. It’s insanity to allow ordinary citizens weaponry that can kill dozens in seconds. Absolutely anyone can snap, although the killer’s mental issues apparently were known and he still got a gun because guns are easier to buy than dirt in America. This poor access to health care and great access to guns is beyond frustrating. Hearing about “thoughts and prayers” and how everyone is pulling together makes me feel like gagging. The hypocrisy makes my blood boil. This time twelve children were killed and other innocents killed but nothing ever changes. The steady stream of gun deaths makes the terrorist deaths seem like a minor bump in the road. Insanity!!!
Agree 100%. It is insanity. I heard the youngest victim was 18 months. And yet those who support the ridiculous level of access to guns in the US usually consider themselves “pro-life.”
The NRA and the Congress people they give money to so they won’t vote yes on ANY form of gun control are all EVIL. Literally, seriously evil. The money those Senators and Reps take from the NRA is actual blood money.
Follow @igorvolsky on Twitter. He’s got allllll the receipts. Some Republicans have received up to $651, 000 in ONE YEAR from the NRA to stop any form of gun control.
BLOOD. MONEY.
Here’s a photo of trump from two weeks ago, looking very old and sick. My thoughts and prayers are with Father Time.
http://twitter.com/newsweek/status/925263595612581888
The woman who gave him the finger has been fired.
I know.
It’s ironic that he made these ignorant comments while in Japan, a country with strict gun laws and the lowest gun deaths in the world. In Japan, you have a higher chance of being struck by lightening than killed by a gun. I can imagine Abe and his wife shaking their heads after retreating to their home to talk about the Trumps behind their backs and how he’s deranged for saying that all of these mass shootings in America have nothing to do with guns.
trump has been a complete ass since landing in Japan. “Why didn’t Japan shoot down that NK MISSILE,” “Why doesn’t Japan make their cars in America instead of shipping them over” are just two of his moronic statements. Apparently, he knows NOTHING of Japan’s history, or of the Japanese auto manufacturinghere in the USA.
Oh, and the Fail praised him for shaking the emperor’s hand and not “groveling” before him like President Obama. Before this tour is over, we’ll probably be at war with half of Asia.
It is all about his Base. What a POS !!!!
Assault-type weapons and high-capacity magazine clips need to be banned, period. And yet the repubs right this as “taking away out guns.” No one is taking away your guns. But uou don’t need those types of weapons, period.
If he thinks it’s a mental health issue, then why did he eliminate the check for that prior to allowing a gun purchase? I think he got rid of that rule this year. Screw him and the GOP.
Just watched a gut-wrenching clip on MSNBC where they are talking to a grandmother who had 3 grandchildren in the church and had just learned one (age 7 years) wasn’t going to make it. Her 5 year old grandson was still in surgery.
I don’t know if any of you ever comment on FOX news stories-I recently started commenting to move out of my echo chamber a bit. It’s futile but anyhow. You know what? Comments from “lefties” that don’t fit their narrative are routinely deleted. It has happened to me several times and I am never vulgar or rude. I’ve seen it happen to others’ too. Yet they will let ride blatant lies that serve their agenda. For example, somebody or someBOT kept posting the shooter was a crazy liberal last night and it was never deleted though it was blatantly false. It’s so ridiculous how they manipulate their base. I didn’t realize they stooped that low.
The Foxies and the Wingnuts are babbling Antifa, Antifa, Leftist violence all over twitter.
This was probably all Hillary’s fault in their false reality.
:-/
I have that happen to me when I comment on the Daily Mail. A lot of my comments don’t post, even though there’s no profanity. If I type black or white, I put a period in between but it still doesn’t get posted. But then I will see another post using the word white spelled that way and it gets through. There are a lot of racist comments on there and those get through, but not mine trying to counter racist comments!
Can Americans explain to me their fascination with guns? I don’t get it. I don’t get how carrying a gun in public makes anyone safer. A would-be terrorist walks in and starts shooting, and suddenly it’s like a shootout at the OK Corral. Everyone’s going to draw theirs and then you have even more bullets flying. Crossfire increases and people are more likely to get hit, and you may not even take down your target in the process. It just seems like a recipe for destruction. Yet many Americans cling to them as if they were their children.
Actually, the majority of Americans do not love guns or even own a gun. The number of armed households has actually declined to about 1 in 3 so an ever larger number of guns is concentrated in a shrinking number of homes.
Americans own an estimated 265 million guns – more than one gun for every American adult and half of those guns – 133 million – were in the hands of just 3% of American adults, so-called “super owners” who possessed an average of 17 guns each.
And keep in mind that there is considerable variation from state to state. Fewer than 6 percent of households in Delaware and Rhode Island have guns, compared with more than 50 percent in Arkansas, West Virginia and Wyoming. Gun ownership is much higher in rural, less densely-populated areas.
Thanks, Kitten! I know not all Americans are trigger-happy patriots. News coverage makes it seem like everyone is packing, which is probably not the case. It’s just that when anything like this happens, this idea that everyone should carry guns for protection gets raised, and that never seems to be offered as a solution in Canada. So I’m like, why do they think everyone needs to be armed just to get groceries!?? But I know there’s a lot of pushback as well.
True point about the numbers being higher in rural areas. It might even be the case in parts of Canada, too.
Donald Trump isn’t a brains situation.
Philando was what made my dad cancel his decades long NRA membership. He is from the hollers of Pennsletucky, got his membership in his 40s when Heston was alpha male with a gun. I was like where is the NRA making speeches and demanding badges now dad!? Private citizen with a license to carry, notified officers of such and gunned down in his car reaching for his license. And they said nothing.
Stop the sale of ammunition. Have all the guns you want. Sorry to say but the US is really messed up. Your president is only a symptom.
I usually despise Piers Morgan, but this is a must-read for everyone. He is spot on in all of his comments, and at the end his letter to America just drives it all home.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5054777/PIERS-MORGAN-Dear-America-pray-wake-f-up.html
In Bowling for Columbine Michael Moore asked Charlton Heston why other countries, with high rates of gun ownership, don’t have the same problems with gun violence that America has. I still haven’t heard anyone answer that question yet.
As powerful as the NRA is, the pharmaceutical industry has much more influence but is a lot better at staying under the radar.
It’s ‘somewhat under reported but many of these shooters are on these meds, and these synthetic chemicals can wreck havoc in the minds of some vulnerable people , especially at first.
I remember reading and hearing about this after Columbine, but not anymore.
There should be data. I would assume that an autopsy and/or drug tests would be performed. Now if only the CDC was legally able to collect and analyze data on shootings….
Meds can indeed have scary effects on certain individuals. Read the whole list sometime… “Suicidal thoughts” is a potential side effect for some, for instance. Non-prescription drugs likewise.
I know people are saying these shooters aren’t all mentally ill, but they must have a narrower definition than I do. It’s not about knowing the difference between right or wrong. I just think that anybody who responds to anger and frustration by picking up a gun and shooting dozens of people can’t be right in the head…. That is simply not normal behavior in a church or at a concert or in a school.
The dynamics are different in military contexts and the behavior is normalized by society there, handing out medals and and uniforms and training them to kill a bunch of strangers who usually are going to be trying to kill them also. Even normally ok guys can end up participating in massacres of civilians under such circumstances, especially when young. A colleague said he almost participated in a My Lai type massacre at 19 in Vietnam, just out of Marine basic training. He was just lucky that his commander finally accepted the pilot’s insistence that there was nobody in that village but old men and women and children. He thinks that his 19-year-old gung-ho freshly minted Marine self would have followed the orders if the commander gave them. It’s a weird and dangerous dynamic but seems to be temporary, they’re usually safe to be around once they are out of the military and able to come back to their senses. So it’s easier to understand paramilitary attacks as well (including gang violence, which is paramilitary really). There is a support group there and a feeling that they are ultimately doing a good thing at least when they’re getting shot at themselves. The civilian massacre dynamic is different and has to do with human pack behavior (following the alpha) and the accentuated “follow orders” mentality promoted in basic training.
The participants are not usually mentally ill and are typically haunted by the memory once they realize what they did, unless they manage to stay in denial.
But this type of attack in Texas and Las Vegas, with no social and cultural support as occurs with military actions, just can’t be attributed to simply being an a-hole. Something has gone deeply wrong inside their brains. And it often requires planning, so it’s not just a brief loss of control in a moment of anger.
Checking in from Texas (very close to the Sutherland shootings) –
Its discouraging hearing fellow Texans parrot this same mentality. There’s just no getting through to people who don’t think for themselves in the first place. They watch Fox news or listen to the ass*hats on news radio and regurgitate it verbatim in any discussion on the topic.