Meghan Markle is going to have to curtsey to Duchess Kate, just FYI

Prince Harry and Meghan Markle Visit Nottingham

One of the worst parts about Meghan Markle marrying into the British royal family is that she’ll have to deal with all of the pettiness around the royal etiquette of curtseying, which is really just about who is the most “important” within the royal family. Meghan is going to need to learn – unfortunately – who is worthy of a curtsey and who is not. Like, she’s going to have to memorize a list and remember to always curtsey to certain people. All of the people arguing that we should never, ever mention Meghan and Kate in the same breath are the same people who will likely be gleeful when they remember that Meghan will need to curtsey to Kate whenever they meet. The Daily Mail did a lengthy and detailed piece with a royal etiquette expert who tried to explain the hierarchy of the curtsey.

Curtseying, within the confines of the royal court, is not only a physical act but a political one, too. The rules and the pecking order can change, and they bear little relation to the order of succession. Meghan will be expected to become swiftly au fait with who’s above, and who’s beneath, her and Harry. For his part, as guide and mentor, Harry will need to take her painstakingly through the protocol. So does she curtsey to her sister-in-law, the Duchess of Cambridge? Yes.

Does she, a complete newcomer to the royal pack, curtsey to Sophie, Countess of Wessex — a one-time commoner but a royal since 1999? No, she doesn’t. Except if Prince Edward, Sophie’s husband, is in the room. In which case, she needs to flex those knees. As out-dated as it sounds, it’s the presence of the royal husband that ‘validates’ the status of the wife. A curtsey to Princess Anne? Yes. She’s the daughter of the Sovereign. Princesses Eugenie and Beatrice? Yes. But not if Harry’s in the room when they should curtsey to her.

What if the Queen’s cousin, Princess Alexandra, wanders by? Now aged 80, she’s considered more regal than the Queen, boasting two royals for parents (Prince George of Kent, fourth son of George V, and Princess Marina of Greece and Denmark) rather than just the one. She still curtseys to Her Majesty, and to Anne (Sovereign’s daughter). But that’s all: Meghan, and everybody else, must pay obeisance to her. Then there’s Alexandra’s sister-in-law, Princess Michael of Kent, of whom legend has it the Queen, on being informed of her European royal credentials, remarked that ‘she sounds a bit too grand for us’. Grand or not, Meghan will never have to bob before her.

The current rules on who-curtseys-to-who come from a document drawn up by the Queen’s private secretary in 2005 and circulated among the family and courtiers only. Entitled ‘Precedence Of The Royal Family To Be Observed At Court’, its purpose was to clarify Camilla’s place in the firm following her marriage to Charles. As the new wife of the Prince of Wales, Camilla ought to have come second in order of precedence after the Queen — the position Diana occupied as Princess of Wales. However, owing to the circumstances and evolution of her relationship with Charles, Camilla was moved down a peg or two.

‘This was done at the behest of Princess Anne and Princess Alexandra, both of whom had given their adult lives to royal service,’ a former courtier told me. ‘They saw no reason to make obeisance to this — at the time — highly unpopular woman. Anne in particular made it clear she had no intention of curtseying to her ever.’

Its effect was to put Princesses Anne, Alexandra, Beatrice and Eugenie ahead of Camilla — but not Sophie Wessex. Her nose was said to have been put severely out of joint when told she would not have the same seniority as the others. ‘She didn’t like that one bit,’ the courtier said. In 2012, the rules were updated to include the Duchess of Cambridge and her place in the order of precedence is behind the blood royal Anne, Alexandra, Beatrice and Eugenie (although when William is by her side she is not expected to curtsey to the last two). Without William, Kate would curtsey to Camilla; with him, she would not. That’s unless Prince Charles is present, in which case she would.

[From The Daily Mail]

As an American, I think this is dumb. I would be willing to bet that Meghan thinks it’s pretty dumb too, and a gigantic waste of time and effort. But she really will have to learn this sh-t, because if she doesn’t… well, it will be terrible for her. If she sees Princess Anne in public and forgets to curtsey, Meg will be crucified in the British press. As for Meghan needing to curtsey for Kate… well, enjoy it, Keen fans! Apparently, William and Kate enjoy enforcing that kind of protocol and I can just imagine the icy stares Meghan will get if her curtsey is deemed too peasanty.

The Duke and Duchess of Cambridge attend the Children's Global Media Summit

Princess Anne visiting Anglo German Club

Remembrance Day ceremony at the Cenotaph

Photos courtesy of WENN.

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281 Responses to “Meghan Markle is going to have to curtsey to Duchess Kate, just FYI”

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  1. minx says:

    Well, she wanted to marry into this BS, lol.

    • Nic919 says:

      If they really wanted to modernize the monarchy, they would get rid of curtseying altogether and only do a bow for the monarch. But they don’t.

      • Jo says:

        If they really wanted to modernise, they would do away with the monarchy. If you’re going to have one silly tradition, you’ve got to have them all.

      • minx says:

        These arcane rules…Reminds me of The Crown, when Margaret was irritated that she couldn’t announce her engagement to Tony because Elizabeth was pregnant. “No announcements are allowed until after the birth.” I mean, WHY? Silly.

      • anon says:

        why? courtesying is an outward symbol of fealty and loyalty and respect for the order of inheritance.

      • still_sarah says:

        @ Jo : I think everyone should bow to 80 year old Princess Alexandra. At this point in her life, she’s earned it. Rock on, Princess A!

    • Maria says:

      @minx, I agree, she wants to marry into this archaic institution, good luck to her. BTW, in the series Crown, does Margaret curtsey to her sister? Don’t think I noticed. If William and Kate insist that they are just like us normal folk, then people shouldn’t have to curtesy to them.

      • minx says:

        I don’t think Margaret curtseyed to Elizabeth when it was just the two of them, but she may have when there were others around. Maybe someone else has a better memory….

      • CynicalAnn says:

        If they’re out in public she would have, yes.

      • Maria says:

        Margaret does not come across well in this series. She’s spoiled, petulant, a rebel.
        But she doesn’t mind pulling rank.

      • minx says:

        Maria, yes! Vanessa Kirby played her to the hilt.

      • magnoliarose says:

        Margaret was a huge snob and could be cutting and intolerant as well as self-indulgent and capricious. She was an acquired taste.

      • sunnydeereynolds says:

        I remember in the first season of The Crown when their father King George VI just died, Margaret was gonna run and talk to her sister or something and the Queen mother held her back and they did a curtesy and they let Queen Elizabeth walk before all of them.

        That is their long tradition. It’s silly of course, but that’s what she’s getting herself in to. A smile price to pay to become a part of the royal family.

      • A says:

        I remember when King George VI was getting surgery in one of the earlier episodes before Elizabeth was queen. They came back from Malta and Elizabeth curtseyed to both her mother as well as her grandmother, Queen Mary, because they both outranked her at the time.

        This precedence stuff is no joke by the way. I’m not surprised the RF holds so tightly to it. Think of all the petty family BS we all have to deal with, the small things we do because otherwise, great aunt Donna is gonna blow a lid and start ranting passive aggressively abt disrespect on her FB wall. Imagine that, but with Princess Michael instead.

    • Stevie says:

      This is so silly. How an independent woman can give up all that she is giving up and still call herself a feminist or independent woman? Makes no sense to me. I hope it ends up being worth it to her.

      • Jada kiss says:

        Well she’s already messed up on basic protocol things, like walking in front of Harry, so maybe she’ll ignore this too?

      • PettyRiperton says:

        Well Stevie she can still call herself a feminist because this was her choice to accept the ring and all that came with it. She’s getting both a new job and family. On a job there are rules you have to follow this is one of hers.

      • notasugarhere says:

        Walkabouts are less formal, so who walks in front of whom at them doesn’t matter. Also Harry was the one with his arm around her, often moving her forward to help greet the crowd.

        Stevie, do you have a problem with Maxima, Letizia, Mathilde, etc. who also follow these silly rules because they are often just that, silly family rules to keep the peace?

      • Stevie says:

        Not A Sugar, yes. I think they are all participating in an archaic practice that puts some people above others. It is offensive to anyone who believes in equality.

      • SoulSPA says:

        People who believe in equality can curtsy. That’s barely a tradition. It shows respect. Doesn’t have to do anything with equality. If people are offended by this then let them take steps to abolish the monarchy altogether. Even then we are not equal for as much as I like the concept. #seentoomuchreallife

      • bettyrose says:

        I agree with you that Meghan can still call herself a feminist because thus far she’s done nothing I’m aware of to undermine the social, political, and economic equality of women. I don’t agree that the “choice” to be subservient is a feminist choice, but I also don’t assume she’s made that choice. Going along with curtsying nonsense is silly but innocuous. If she turns into a Kate-level Stepford wife, I’ll revisit this opinion, but I don’t think that’s going to happen. Why would she bother?

    • jinsl says:

      It’s exactly like being in the military. When you’re walking around on base, you or you parent or your partner (whoever’s in the military) have to salute to people senior to them. It’s all about caste systems to keep everyone in line.

      • Hazel says:

        Yeah, I would never have made it in the military, either. Staff sergeants outrank master sergeants, or is it vice versa? I could never remember all those gradations.

      • CynicalAnn says:

        So true.

      • Annabelle Bronstein says:

        But in the military, the higher ranking person salutes back. I find this gesture much more respectful. It’s “honor exchanged” rather than whatever purpose it will serve when MM salutes Kate.

      • A says:

        Yeah, but (correct me if I’m wrong), ranks in the military are earned. Not given to you by virtue of your birth.

    • Sally says:

      Maybe she’ll just “take a knee” instead, Kate might not know the difference. LOL

    • Snappyfish says:

      She will also have to curtsy to Prince George & Princess Charlotte

    • Addie says:

      It’s all BS imposed by one family to let them keep thinking they matter. They don’t. If you’re stupid enough to buy into all the protocol, family orders and the other bunkum, you’re too stupid to reason with.

  2. Annabelle Bronstein says:

    Nope. Just nope.

    • STRIPE says:

      Doesn’t seem like too bad of a deal to me. Figuring out who to curtesy to sounds like the most “work” she’s going to have to do for the rest of her life. Plus she gets to marry Harry. I’d take that lol

      • Annabelle Bronstein says:

        Haha, a fair point. I’m too rebellious (an American thing I suppose) to curtesy to someone out of duty. I much prefer the Asian culture of bowing to one another. If I were Kate I would curtesy back to Meghan.

      • STRIPE says:

        Oh I totally get where you’re coming from! It’s all so ridiculous. But I guess as Americans we just don’t get it.

    • magnoliarose says:

      I would not be good at this. I could not curtsey to Kate unless I figured out a way to do it sarcastically. lol In all seriousness it is silly except to curtsey to the sovereign.

      • littlemissnaughty says:

        I would suuuuck. I could and would totally curtsey (I’m lying) but what got me was that Kate has to curtsey to Camilla but NOT when William is present? Talk about being defined by your husband. Gross.

      • Nic919 says:

        This is also an institution where one of her names is Princess William of Wales. It is deceptive because the monarch is currently a woman but it is really a very sexist institution. Kate doesn’t officially have her first name in a title unless she gets divorced. And the same with Meghan once married.

      • perplexed says:

        I think it has more to do with royal blood than anything else. If Kate had been born into the royal family, it doesn’t seem like she’d be required to have her husband present to have people curtsey to her (I think?). It looks like Princess Anne has a lot of people curtseying to her (but how much of that has to do with Queen Elizabeth changing the rules, I have no idea).

      • Annabelle Bronstein says:

        If I were forced to curtesy I wouldn’t do those tiny little curtsies like Kate does. I would take an over the top, ballet style GRAND curtsey with great flourish and then wink afterward. But that’s just me I guess.

        ETA: today I learned I have no idea how to spell curtesy, and neither does Spell Check.

      • SoulSPA says:

        Re: curtsying to Kate: I would do it a lot better than Kate does in general, if I were Meghan, in a young European Queen/ Crown Princessy way, with the flashiest I-know-it-all Hollywood, media and UN polished I-got-the-prize smile. With just a glimpse of sarcasm in my right eye. While maintaining firm eye contact, and the smile of course! #curtsylessons #meghanwinsagain #whereismeghan!

      • Annabelle Bronstein says:

        @SoulSPA yessss 👑

      • littlemissnaughty says:

        @Annabelle B.: I totally bungled the spelling even though it’s right there in the post. I can’t even deal with the word, much less the concept.

      • GreenTurtle says:

        I would have to think of it more as curtsying to her position/rank, rather than Kate personally.

      • Alix says:

        @magnoliarose: Yes, it can be done. Have you ever seen the movie The Queen? Very early in the film, Tony and Cherie Blair have an audience with the Queen, and Cherie’s curtsy/head-tilt combo could not have been any more “Bite me!”.

      • Amy says:

        Nic919: Technicaly, all married women’s official titles include their husbands name and not their own name. Mine is Mrs. His First Name His Last Name. That’s how I am addressed on wedding invitations and in any other formal correspondence. So it’s not just in the BRF where one of the Kate’s (for instance) titles is her husbands name.

  3. perplexed says:

    It’s the memorizing part that would cause me difficulty, not the actual curtseying. If I married into the family (not that any prince would ever be interested in me, but, er, you known what I mean), I wouldn’t argue against curtseying. I would see it as simply part of the job description — it is what it is. You have rules in the corporate environment that you follow; you have rules in the royal family that you follow.

    But I’ll admit that remembering where everyone stands in the hierarchy when they’re with their husbands and when they’re not with their husbands would cause memory confusion for me.

    Until I read this article, I actually had no idea that a bunch of people had been put ahead of Camilla. I found that more interesting than Meghan vs. Kate or whatever. So I’m guessing Princess Anne doesn’t like Camilla? That’s the real gossip, I see!

    • LadyMTL says:

      Yeah, although I find the curtseying itself to be old-fashioned and anachronistic, it’s been around for ever so it’s not like this is anything new specifically for Meghan Markle. I personally think it’s silly and should be limited to just the Queen herself, but hey, it comes with the territory.

      That said, I would probably need a cheat-sheet for a few weeks, lol…or else watch me go curtseying to the Queen’s corgis! :P

      • Sherry says:

        I don’t understand the hierarchy here. It would seem that the curtseying should go along with who’s in line for the throne next. I would think she would curtsy to The Queen, Prince Charles, Camilla, William, Kate, George, Charlotte, New Baby, Harry and anyone after that would be a no-go.

        It would especially rankle me to have to curtsy to Beatrice and Eugenie considering they will be behind whatever children Harry and Meghan have in line to the throne.

      • LAK says:

        Kate is not in line to the throne. She’s merely married to someone in line to the throne.

      • Sherry says:

        @LAK – I know, but she is HRH and will be queen one day. Once Meghan is HRH and a Duchess, I don’t see why she should have to curtsy to people who will be further down the road of succession than her husband and her children.

      • African Sun says:

        @Sherry, does Megs get the HRH title when she marries him? Cool

      • Alix says:

        @sherry: Because rank, in this case, does not always follow the order of succession.

    • LAK says:

      Camilla also pinched Andrew PB from Anne, so her refusal to curtsey to Camilla might be payback.

      • perplexed says:

        Interesting! See, that’s the real gossip!

      • Bella Dupont says:


        I love your use of “pinched” there….lol. By the way, are there any consequences for not curtseying to the right people? Say if certain people decided not to ever curtsey to Meghan, apart from say negative media coverage, would there be any actual real life consequences?

      • Bella Dupont says:

        @ LAK
        Sorry, not to bombard you, but how much do you know of Princess Michael of Kent? I sense she’ll definitely be one of the women Meghan will end up having problems with…….

      • LAK says:

        Bella Dupont: No real life consequences, but the family is very archaic behind closed doors such that they insist on these rules are observed behind closed door. And they are petty as hell with each other so they could make her life uncomfortable in subtle ways until she fell into line privately.

        Princess Michael isn’t as awful as her press. She’s actually pretty welcoming to others who marry in regardless of creed, race, station. She can be grand at times, but she’s not malicious.

        I remember she had a kerfuffle a few years ago at a restaurant in NYC which made her look like a racist, but simultaneously, her daughter was dating an Asian man whom she adored so it’s hard to make a definitive judgement on where she is or isn’t. She’s not someone who racially abuses people, even as microaggressions, so that incident still surprises.

        Ps: i understand that people can be friendly with other races and still hold racist prejudices against their race, but i really feel that that one incident was an outlier with PMKent.

      • Maria says:

        BELLA, LAK. Didn’t Princess Michael plagiarize a book?

      • Pedro45 says:

        Didn’t Princess Michael also tell Diana after she gave up her HRH that under no circumstances was Diana to curtsey to her?That seemed kind.

      • magnoliarose says:

        She is charming and has a robust and settled personality and for a woman that can be misconstrued. When she came on the scene her typically Germanic forthright nature stood out for British royalty. She divorced her first husband so she and Meghan might get along great.

      • Bella Dupont says:

        @ LAK

        Huh… don’t say…..

        …..very interesting to hear that you think she’s so different to how she’s portrayed. This is why I usually insist on knowing an individual for at least a little while before deciding if they are genuinely racist or sexist or just an arseh*le (not saying she is one!)


        I heard something about her plagiarising some passages for one of her books (if I remember correctly), but I don’t really know the details of it.

      • Princessk says:

        Princess Michael was very probably having an affair with her present husband whilst married to her first, just like Awful Anne.

      • A says:

        @magnoliarose, “Charming and robust and settled” is an awfully charitable way to describe a known snob.

        I will give her points because she’s cheeky and has a personality. But, much like Princess Margaret, she is prone to believing her own hype a little too much for most people’s tastes.

    • inthekitchen says:

      At least for the first several times she encounters the family members (over Christmas hols), Harry will be there. If it were me, I’d work out some kind of body signal Harry could give me to help me remember until I memorized everything…an ear pull, ala Carol Burnett, or something.

      In a sense, even though it will be overwhelming, at least she’ll meet a slew of family over the holidays and will get a crash course in the ‘to whom do I curtsey’ game. As an actor, I’ll bet she’s good at remembering things on the fly.

      • Bella Dupont says:

        They mentioned at the interview that she’d already met quite a few of them…..”all the key people” is how he referred to them, if I remember correctly.

        Which begs the question……if you were a member of the family and hadn’t met Meghan yet, how much of a clarification is that on your real relevance within the institution?

    • BearcatLawyer says:

      I believe Andrew pushed for this rule. Essentially princesses by blood – Anne, Alexandra, Eugenie, and Beatrice – never have to curtesy to Camilla because she was born a commoner. Sophie Wessex, however, does have to curtesy to Camilla because Charles is heir to the throne and outranks Sophie’s husband Edward. Or something like that.

      • notasugarhere says:

        Anne pushed for it earlier, when she was annoyed at the popularity of Diana and Fergie. That was also when she was granted the traditional Princess Royal title.

      • LAK says:

        Anne and Alexandra pushed for this rule back in 2005. At the time it wasn’t a big deal because Camilla wasn’t liked in public so most people and the press shrugged.

        When Kate was added to the order of precedence and the press realised that the rule now included the hated Yorkies, it was reported as a scandal designed to put down Kate.

      • Va Va Kaboom says:

        Anne pushed for it originally when Camilla married Charles, but Andrew took up the “Blood Princess” cause when Kate joined the family so his daughters wouldn’t suffer the indignity of curtesying to a Commoner.

        When Charles is King he can, and probably will, change the protocol right back so the Queen Consort and Princess of Wales take precedent over any Blood Princess. So, I hope Anne and the Yorks savor their small victory, it won’t last.

      • KiddVicious says:

        @Va Va Kaboom “When Charles is King he can, and probably will, change the protocol right back so the Queen Consort and Princess of Wales take precedent over any Blood Princess.”

        Does this mean Ann had to curtsy to Diana (when she was still married to Charles) even when Charles wasn’t with Diana? I’m assuming she had to when Diana and Charles were together.

      • Bridget says:

        @LAK: am I the only one that sees the irony in using this rule to put down Kate?

        And yes, the rule before was that the princesses royal would have needed to curtsy to Diana.

      • LAK says:

        Bridget: they are petty as hell.

    • jinsl says:

      They have private secretaries who attend events with them and remind them of such things.

    • Princessk says:

      Will Meghan have to curtsey to Harry?…!

    • Plantpal says:

      Because of my knees, I would find curtseying difficult. The idea is to get one’s head lower, isn’t it? I would be happier to bow. And then I’d just bow to Everyone. I would bow my head to the homeless person on the street (or if my knees were better, I would curtsey). I would curtsey to the Palace guard who held the door open for me. I would curtsey or bow to the chef who made my dinner. I’d drive everyone nuts with inappropriate curtseying LOL Do the men curtsey? Probably they bow? So the bow may be one way to modernize the monarchy vs the curtsey?

  4. babykitten says:

    Anne sounds a joy to be around. No wonder she’s her father’s favorite.

    • Millenial says:

      Oh yes, don’t they all sound lovely? They must be a riot at family barbecues.

    • LAK says:

      Philip quotes about Anne:

      1. If the man had succeeded in abducting Anne, she would have given him a hell of a time while in captivity.” (On a gunman who tried to kidnap her in 1974).

      2. If it doesn’t fart or eat hay, she’s not interested.”

      • magnoliarose says:

        I like Anne’s curmudgeon ways. She reminds me of an aunt whose favorites are her farm, dogs, gardens her children and my older sister. Her husband who died only gets great reviews in public, but behind closed doors, she rarely says anything about him. I am sure there is a story, but I don’t know it. She has a companion, but if you ask her if she will marry him, she says NO. I don’t need a man getting on my nerves in my own home. They aren’t the type for everyone, but they are tough as nails.

      • Sophia's Side eye says:

        Curmudgeons are some of my favorite people, magnolia. They’ve got good hearts. My grandmother’s always been a bit of one, and I love her to pieces, great lady. I love what your aunt said, “I don’t need a man getting on my nerves in my own home” lol!!

    • Maria says:

      Yup. Anne is a chip off the old block. The younger royals must be driving her mad will all their trips and work-shy ways. She works like a horse, you gotta admire her for that.

    • notasugarhere says:

      Anne is the one most like Philip in temperament, but Edward is his favorite. Hence the Duke of Edinburgh title (eventually hopefully) being saved for Edward.

      • Maria says:

        Didn’t Phillip throw an almighty fit when Edward dropped out of the Marines? Of course that was thirty years ago.

      • notasugarhere says:

        I think he just shrugged his shoulders and moved on. Edward and the military were never going to be a fit, and Edward proved it his own way which PP probably admired. Much like Philip was indulgent when Edward was let in to university because of who he was. “What a friend we have in Jesus!” was Philip’s quote because he was let in to Jesus College, Cambridge.

      • babykitten says:

        But tradition has been heir and spare are Wales and York. So is that really saving Edinburgh?

      • Tina says:

        “Saved” for Edward in the sense that even if Philip predeceased William’s or Harry’s weddings, they would not have been named Duke of Edinburgh.

      • Princessk says:

        @Nota….”What a friend we have in Jesus”…..Looool! I never heard that one!

    • Princessk says:

      I am not taken with Anne. I just cannot understand why people like her so called ‘no nonsense’ attitude, which I call rudeness. There are so many instances, one I will never forget when she slipped and a man accompanying her on a visit went to help her by steadying her arm and she yelled at him to leave her alone. She always looks as though she is chewing a wasp. People say she is hard working, but do people really want to meet and greet Anne??????

      • A says:

        I like Anne because she’s always done what she wants to do. But no, I don’t much care for people with so called “no nonsense” attitudes. It’s always a very thinly veiled excuse for rudeness. Same with the “brutally honest” types. I think there is a way to be straightforward and honest with your needs and with other people while still maintaining a sense of kindness and understanding.

    • Tourmaline says:

      Anne has always scared me but I like the occasional pictures of her horsing around (no pun intended haha) with her little granddaughters at some events.

  5. Mar says:

    My head is spinning after all of this

  6. Beth says:

    I guess the rules should be followed. What the hell is the point of having to curtsey? If someone doesn’t, will it be considered a crime and they’ll be sent to jail?

  7. PettyRiperton says:

    It’s not too late to change her mind about marrying into the firm. If I was her after Christmas I would tell Harry you know what I don’t think this will work out toss him his ring and run like hell.

  8. Nicole says:

    If she doesn’t want to curtsy she should not be marrying Harry. If she doesn’t want to memorize protocol then she should’ve thought of that before.
    You either take it all or nothing. Not feeling sorry for her here.

    • notasugarhere says:

      I doubt she’d see any of this as a problem. These are the family rules HM put in place to keep peace at big gatherings. Simple, easy, nothing to worry about IMO.

    • African Sun says:

      I think the people up in arms about the curtseying care more about it than Meghan. It’s part of the job, she looks like she knows how to execute, she’ll be A1 at this.

  9. Who ARE these people? says:

    This kind of thing reminds me that the BRF really is a stupid institution. And if William and Kate don’t drop this nonsense, so much for being “normal.”

    • perplexed says:

      William and Kate didn’t invent the rules though. Everyone knows this is how the royal family works. If a person doesn’t know this before marrying into the family, they’re quite thick, regardless of nationality.

      • LAK says:

        It’s not surprising that William and Kate follow the rules when around the older generation royals to whom this is important.

        What is surprising is that Willuam and Kate makes everyone around them follow the rules in their private sphere of KP.

        Several reporters have mentioned how put out William gets if their staff don’t follow the rules.

      • SoulSPA says:

        LAK, Bill’s attitude towards staff seems juicy! Any deets? Thanks 😉

      • notasugarhere says:

        Yes the “normal” W&K insist upon this protocol behind the scenes, and we’ve also had staff leaks about it whenever the staff are unhappy with W&K (film switcheroo at staff party, etc.)

      • Bella Dupont says:

        Yes….more gossip, LAK, more! Dish….dish…. :D

        William is i think, the only member of the BRF i actually almost dislike because there’s just nothing amusing about him (well, apart from his bald patch).


      • bluhare says:

        I agree, LAK. So much for “call us William and Catherine”.

      • LAK says:

        I guess Willuam found his passion!!!

      • Princessk says:

        Well poor William has to make sure that the institution of royalty is upheld. I don’t blame him for sticking to protocol, otherwise things will slide. Also familiarity breeds contempt, something Diana fell foul of. Charles apparently is even more keen on protocol than the Queen, I am really looking forward to King Charles III.😆

    • milla says:

      I cannot believe we still have royals in 21st century . And Harry is now hunting. Hunting. Freaking blood suckers.

      Markle needs reality check. Imagine if they divorce, her kids will stay with him…

      • inthekitchen says:

        Yeah, I was pretty disappointed to read about Harry’s jaunt to Germany for sport hunting.

      • OriginalLala says:

        seriously? I mean, whats the point of him and William blustering on about saving elephants in Africa when they themselves are goddamned trophy hunters?? gross, hypocritical and sadly, totally expected behavior from entitled rich white men.

      • Nicole says:

        Not surprising. Not sure why people are shocked that Harry is just like the rest.

      • graymatters says:

        As an unrepentant omnivore, I see a huge difference between hunting edible, well-established species in accordance with the rules of the land and poaching endangered species. The real issue is not whether or not so much how an animal dies, but whether or not and how well an animal lives.

        Trained hunters on well-managed lands aren’t the problem. Factory farms and poaching is.

      • notasugarhere says:

        Unlikely they’d stay with Harry in the event of a divorce, and it is possible to relocate to another part of Europe for privacy reasons. As long as the monarch approves any moves, they can happen.

        In 2000 Fergie, Beatrice, and Eugenie were set to move to Switzerland when the girls were 11 and 10. They were moving to a house likely provided by Fergie’s ex Paddy McN, and B&E were going to attend an exclusive Swiss boarding school. A scandal involving the head master ended that plan, but the three of them were going to leave the UK and relocate to Switzerland permanently – with HM’s permission.

      • Jess says:

        I’m a somewhat repentant omnivore but agree with Graymatter’s take on the hunting /factory farm issue.

      • Stevie says:

        Harry needed the trip! He worked twice last week! Poor dear needed to recharge his batteries. And there is a vaction planned for he and Meghan after the new year!
        If anyone thinks Meghan is going to motivate these lazy Do-Nothings or be allowed to outwork them, i have a nice big bridge to sell you in Brooklyn. :)

      • magnoliarose says:

        That is why I can only gossip about Harry, and like him in theory, Hunting is something I despise and would never date a hunter.

      • Betsy says:

        Eh. Is he hunting something like deer? I don’t care. Is he hunting big game, endangered game? Then I care.

  10. Meow says:

    Wouldn’t curtsy to that hot blusher-caked mess lolz

  11. MeowuiRose says:

    The Rules:
    Don’t wear a tank top two days in a row.
    You can only wear your hair in a ponytail once a week.
    On Wednesdays we wear pink.
    You can only wear jeans or track pants on Friday.

    All jokes aside, this sounds exhausting. I really don’t see Meghan fitting in long term. That isn’t an insult to her. I think she will be respectful and do her best to follow the rules but I don’t think stuff like this is important to her and once she’s married she’ll stop trying (unless she’s around the Queen or in public).

    But really Im just here for the pretty clothes and royal buttons.

  12. V4Real says:

    Kate is going to love that. Be careful what you wish for Megan, be careful.

    • Bella Dupont says:


    • SoulSPA says:

      Yup. What is clear is that Kate does not like curtsying too much. There was a video on the BBC covering the solo engagement that the “esteemed” Duch-a** of Cambridge made to the Netherlands where she, as a representative of HM QEII met with HM King Wilhem Alexander. Queen Maxima was abroad. Much to my amazement, Kate barely and briefly flexed her knees while on a Sate occasion. A security person was positioned strategically to cover the camera view of Kate. But we could still see her curtsying like a 5 year old. Sorry, no offence to 5 year old girls dreaming to become a princess. They would surely do it better. Heck, anyone could do it better than Kate. #rootingformeghan
      My royal standard of curtsying is that of the Danish royal court. Deep curtsying and genuine smiles if only from what I subjectively perceive from pictures.

    • island_girl says:

      Whatever. She fell in love with a prince and they’re getting married.

    • Bridget says:

      You know that this is a precedent that’s been established for like a decade?

  13. inthekitchen says:

    But wait, what if Kate (on her own) meets up with the duo of Meghan AND Harry?! Wouldn’t they then be “above” Kate and Kate would actually have to curtsey to Meghan? Seems like they would, based on the Sophie example in the article. I think it depends on whether the married in women are with their husbands or not. In any case, as H&M mentioned in their engagement interview, Meghan is choosing Harry so I’m quite sure she is aware of all the strange protocol she will have to live by and is on board with it.

    Also, have we ever seen Kate curtseying to anyone beside the queen and maybe Anne? Maybe the younger royals have decided to not cursety to each other? I can’t remember ever having seen Kate curtsey to Beatrice, e.g.

    • Nic919 says:

      They would. Because the status relates to the husband if you married in. Not exactly a feminist institution.

      As for Beatrice and Eugenie, I don’t think they have met Kate in public without William there so she doesn’t have to curtsey to them but vice versa.

      • inthekitchen says:

        I wonder if Kate studiously avoids meeting up with Bea and Eug – especially because of Kate’s years ago mean-girling – specifically so she doesn’t have to publicly curtsey to them.

        Although…{smirk} Kate seems to studiously avoid doing anything, so I’m guessing it’s not really going to happen where she’d meet up with the York women without William.

      • SoulSPA says:

        @inthekitchen I’ve read somewhere that Kate avoids being alone with B and E so that she wouldn’t have to curtsy to them. That said I have no idea if the blood princess were ever mean to her but yes, a royal reporter by the name of Katie Nichol I think wrote a piece in the DF detailing how mean Keen Kate was towards B in one social occasion. Pippa was there too IIRC. Keen middle-class sisters vs. bloody princesses. Classy! Not!

  14. Natalie S says:

    They all take the money so they all have to follow these silly rules they have for each other. It’s when non-royals curtsey, that I cringe.

      • Nic919 says:

        I don’t think any politician should be curtseying to a royal. It looks subservient and they are the voice of the people not the royal. I can understand a small bow to the monarch as an embodiment of the Crown, but no one else deserves it for marrying into or being born into the proper gene pool.

        Also Kate grins pretty obviously when they do it and her parvenu roots are showing. You don’t see the Queen grin when people curtsey to her.

      • Surely Wolfbeak says:

        Yeah, I’m with Jeremy Corbyn on this.

      • notasugarhere says:

        No one outside of the family is required to curtsy or bow, it is personal choice.

        Mike’s moves there were fabulous. He could teach KM a thing or two about proper curtsy technique.

      • Natalie S says:

        That’s a great picture of Mike Tindall. Speaks well of Elizabeth’s sense of humor if Mike feels comfortable being cheeky with her in public.

        Yeah, I’m also uncomfortable with politicians bowing.

        LAK, Do you know how it works if they’re all informally staying together at Balmoral or Sandringham? Like a quick bow or curtsey when they see each other in the morning? And when Elizabeth’s kids were growing up, would the kids still bow or curtsey to Elizabeth and Philip?

      • Bella Dupont says:

        My goodness, Theresa May looks tragic, bowing to Kate, doesn’t she? As a commoner, I would never, ever bow to anyone, not even the Queen, as much as I love them.

        But if I made the conscious decision/choice to marry into it, like Meghan, then I would advice her to just bow. There are more meaningful and consequential battles ahead for her within this family as an America, bi-racial woman. She needs to pick her battles very carefully and this one is just not worth it for the pay-off. (Methinks)

      • LAK says:

        Natalie S:in private, they all curtsey / bow to each other according to precedence the first time they see each other. No need after that.

        Therefore every time you see them curtseying / bowing in public, that’s the first time they’ve met that day.

      • Maria says:

        Is she required to curtsy to them? Kind of demeaning for her.

      • Princessk says:

        @LAK Thanks for bringing up all these photos…do you keep a royal photo library ? 😄.
        The Princess Anne one is really awful in a very hilarious way. 😂.

        Poor Mrs May, but do notice that Kate seems to recognise the absurdity of the situation, as she raises her heels off the ground in order to make a small tilt of respect towards the PM.

      • Llamas says:

        Kate looks so genuinely happy and jolly when people curtsey to her.

      • LAK says:

        PrincessK: i do not, but i bite the bullet and wade through Royaldish to get the photos.

        That site is too much, but they are a treasure trove of photos and videos.

      • Natalie S says:

        Thank you, LAK!

    • Maria says:

      It’s slightly sexist too. Men only have to bop their heads, while women have to perform this elaborate curtesy. Why can’t women bop their head too?

  15. Peace says:

    It’s no big deal. In my country, we curtesy as a sign of respect. Men prostrate and women kneel as a sign of respect. Meanwhile, the Sun reports that MM and Victoria Beckham have become BFFs.

    • Princessk says:

      @Peace…..I am guessing you are from Nigeria?

    • Princessk says:

      Re- Victoria Beckham…..Take that story with a pinch of salt. Victoria Beckham has been going after Meghan ever since she became Harry’s girlfriend because she wants Meghan to wear her designs. Meghan is supposed to have said that she does not believe she has the height or figure for VBs designs. But it seems that VB does not want to give up getting the royal endorsement of her clothes. Kate is far too ‘safe’ for her designs but Meghan could, she probably figures, pull it off. Meghan would do well not to get too close to the publicity hungry Beckhams. I believe this story has been planted by Victoria’s PR people.

      • Stevie says:

        Ironically, i think Kate would look great in VB’s clean lines. She has the height and she certainly keeps her slim figure.

    • African Sun says:

      Yeah me too in my country it’s not out of the question to curtsey gently when greeting an older person or to slightly bend your knees.

      It is what it is, the curtse will need to be done and Megs will be fine at it.

    • lobbit says:

      Yeah, if you’re part of the Yoruba tribe in Nigeria you’re supposed to kneel or bow to anyone that’s older than you. Not sure about other tribes, though.

      • African Sun says:

        Not just in Nigeria but many other African countries.

      • Princessk says:

        Yes, it is just being respectful, it is not about superiority. I don’t know why people are making so much fuss about the curtsey to royalty, its not like you have to do it every day. It is just showing respect to the position and the institution of monarchy.

  16. Josie says:

    I would assume the hierarchy is because they are princesses “of the blood”, and the etiquette goes back 100’s of years, though it’s obviously now symbolic.

    I’m liking Princess Anne even more after this story.

    • African Sun says:

      Me too. I like her gutsy spirit and just letting the courtiers know that she will not bow down to Cam.

  17. Luca76 says:

    Yes whenever someone says it’s romantic I think of this BS. Hopefully their love for eachother and communication skills are strong enough to overcome this crap.

  18. Talie says:

    It’s a courtesy…if I were her, the only ones I would do it for are The Queen, Philip and Charles.

    • minx says:

      I doubt she would take it upon herself to do that. If she’s supposed to curtsy, she’ll do it. I don’t see her making waves on this.

      • CynicalAnn says:

        Agreed. She may think it’s archaic, but she’s going to follow protocol.

      • Bella Dupont says:

        Apart from protocol, it would be political suicide for her (within the family) to be thought of as disrespecting other members of the family and it’s tradition, so soon into her membership of it.

        She needs to be more savvy than that if she wants a long marriage. Build as many allies as possible, not enemies early on. She will need them in the long term.

      • Lady D says:

        I don’t have a problem with the curtsying, but the thought of having to walk behind my husband would make my blood boil. Side by side, sure, we’re partners. Deliberately behind you like I know my place? Nope sorry, not going to happen. That’s the rule I would have a problem with.

  19. Meghan’s an actress for goodness sakes!She will make this part of her thing,you know remembering all the correct people in the correct order,and I bet she’ll curtsy with grace and a smile even if she’s burning inside.And the big one -like many others have said,she knows what she’s getting into and she can still run!(I dunno think I’d run like the wind)

  20. perplexed says:

    Maybe she wouldn’t mind curtseying to Kate. Meghan sort of seems to enjoy hanging around this kind of set. Her best friend doesn’t exactly seem unpretentious. I’m wondering what Meghan thinks of Camilla though! Is she Team Diana? It seems even Sophie doesn’t want to curtsey to her. Hilarious.

    • SoulSPA says:

      From what I know, people curtsy to the title, not the person. I don’t know if M will have any problem with that. In my opinion though curtsying to the DoC is a hack of an issue because of the person. Duchess Keen Kate Snowflake Dolittle Doormat Mattress Lean Legs Hair Wiglet and Flashy Biscuit of Middleton and Lamebridge. Who herself does not honour her title through good deeds and respect to the title and so on. She’s more of a lame Middleton than Cambridge or Windsor.
      I really hope Meghan will put her to shame. No worries about curtsying.

    • Bella Dupont says:


      Re Meghan’s thoughts on Camilla…..I wondered the same thing as well……

      I think for political expediency, she needs to cultivate a good (great if possible) relationship with Camilla. As the wife of the future King, Meghan needs to have her onside if she wants /expects an advantageous arrangement for herself and her kids, once Charles ascends the throne (given he is so keen to make lots of changes).

      • Nic919 says:

        Camilla was very complimentary about Meghan at her first appearance post engagement announcement so I think Meghan has already made positive inroads in that regard.
        I don’t recall Camilla calling Kate a star when they announced their engagement.

      • Bella Dupont says:

        I wonder if its true that Kate and Camilla don’t really get on (as such)? If it is true, then maybe this is Camilla recruiting Meghan to her side, nice and early?

      • Tourmaline says:

        It would be nice if Meghan could have a great relationship with Camilla. Camilla seems motherly and cozy and Meghan’s own mom is going to be far away most of the time (if she continues living in California). I could see Kate not being that chummy with Camilla because Kate has her own mom close by, plus I think Kate takes all her cues from William and if he’s not close to Camilla, Kate won’t be close to her.

  21. Heat says:

    Frankly, I don’t doubt that these types of things are seen as rather ‘dumb’ to the Queen, herself. But, part of the job with The Establishment, means that rules must be followed.

  22. Brunswickstoval says:

    I highly doubt Meghan hates any of this. She knows what she’s getting into.

  23. Liane says:

    What happens if she curtsies when she shouldn’t? Just as scandalous or okay?

    • perplexed says:

      Honestly, I think the media cares more about finding a faux-pas than the royal family does. I don’t see the Queen or Charles going postal because someone curtseyed at the wrong time. But I suppose the British tabloids would never let the person forget.

      • LAK says:

        Early in her marriage, Kate curtseyed to HM and DoE on the balcony at Trooping the Colour and lipreading wags said the Queen told her,’too late!’

        They curtsey / bow to each other the first time they meet, and the number of times Kate is seen publicly curtseying to HM indicates she often arrives at these public events from elsewhere even though to the family, including Kate, appear to arrive as a collective.

        For Trooping the colour, they all curtsey to each other behind closed doors before they go out to the balcony so it was funny to see Kate drop a curtsey when she was already on the balcony.

      • spidey says:

        @ perplexed. – not just the media. :)

  24. Jussie says:

    Well, yeah. This is what she signed up for. It’s not just a marriage, it’s a job. A spectacularly stupid and pointless job, but again, she chose to sign up for it.

    • G says:

      Exactly. I don’t see how her having to curtsy according to established etiquette is “one of the worst parts” — she would just be doing her job. She is well aware of this, and she has still chosen to join The Firm.

      Let’s not expect her to be revolutionary.

  25. trillian says:

    Yeah, that alone would put me off marrying anyone royal. A “hi everyone” should be fine imo.

  26. Naomi says:

    Damn it no human should bow or curtsy to another, I probably won’t live to see it (I really hope I do as I am only 25) but I can’t wait for the British monarchy to end!

    • Bella Dupont says:

      I hope you die very old and happy, AND I hope you don’t see it’s end! :D ;)

    • Stevie says:

      I agree 100%. No one is above another to show such subservience. This is an outdated tradition that needs to go.

    • Yup, Me says:

      When I was 25 I would have said the exact same thing. Now, I’d say that I can absolutely see bowing or curtseying to the monarch (especially one who has spent so many years of her life in service to the position) but all the trickle down whoopty whoop still seems foolish.

      I’ve attended different religious rituals where bowing or prostrations were part of the ceremony and I was really resistant until a teacher explained bowing to me from his perspective. It was a beautiful talk and made me love the practice. But I still think that the people who are most insistent on being bowed to are often the very people least deserving of the show of respect.

      • African Sun says:

        @Yup, agreed, I think QE has earned a curtsey from anyone in the UK at this point, though I realise it is not obligatory.

        I think some people are overthinking the bowing, curtseying of various traditions. Look at the situation you are in and go from there. Megs has to do this and that’s that, and I am sure she knew this before he gave her the ring.

    • Merritt says:

      Please don’t travel to Japan, ever.

      • Nick says:

        Lol right?

      • Stevie says:

        Bot dont people bow to each other as a sign of respect in Japan? Not based on who you were born to? I thought it was like a handshake there? A greeting, really?

      • A says:

        @Stevie, yes you’re right. People bow to each other in Japan, as a fundamental sign of politeness and respect. I’m not saying inequality doesn’t exist in Japan, but the bowing thing is very much like shaking hands here.

    • Tourmaline says:

      Monarchy is an institution and if you want to play in their arena, you’ve got to play by their rules. If it was so objectionable to Meghan she can either not marry in or get Harry to drop out of the fam and the system.

      I know its not the same thing as royalty, but I think of going to a court hearing. Everyone must rise when the judge comes in. It’s part of the institution. Even if the judge is a meritless jerk you do it, because it’s about more than showing respect to someone as an individual. (Although unlike BRF curtseying if you don’t rise for the judge you surely risk getting thrown in jail).

  27. Really? says:

    So basically she’s going to be flexing those knees a lot. Girl knows there’s a trade off for everything. Don’t feel sorry for her.

    Bow to Kate!

  28. Tan says:

    Royal family sounds like the big wig version of Indian / South Asian families where you have younger than your age masi or someone’s someone you have to respect, specially as a new bride

    Just bunch of horsepotty.

  29. sus says:

    Yeah, that is part of the job. It’s one of the reasons I don’t understand all the fawning over Harry. He’s a part of the BRF as much as Will is.

  30. Amanda says:

    Best pet of this story is princess Anne pulling the Camilla curtsey-card. Love it!

  31. manda says:

    Omg, this would stress me out so much!! I would cry every night for months, for sure

  32. Cee says:

    She only has to if she encounters William with Kate. If Kate is solo and Meghan is with Harry, then Kate should curtsey to THEM. It is the presence of the royal husband that which determines the curtsey. Neither Kate nor Meghan are royal although I suppose this will change if and when Kate is Princess of Wales.

  33. Jess says:

    So absurd.

  34. dimsummum says:

    Last week, Prince Carl Philip visited my daughter’s classroom in Hong Kong. My father, on hearing this news, said, “She doesn’t have to curtsey, does she? Man should not curtsey to anyone, except God.”
    I replied, “Dad, you’re an athiest.”
    He responded, “You know what I’m saying.”
    I do agree with him – the concept of bowing to someone because of their lineage (or marriage choices) – does not appeal to me.

  35. Mabs A'Mabbin says:

    Although I’m not reading about curtsey etiquette, I enjoy reading the comments. I couldn’t care less about Royals as I, too, find it exhausting and odd in this age of so-many-things-more-important. The fact that they’re simply a nation’s face reminds me of costume parties and magnificent masks. But hey, we have Seacumblob running our nation into the ground while he chugs diet soda and watches himself on TV all day. Oh. And he has a base cheering him on with every cheeto and chicken nugget dropped. Curtsey away. Curtsey to everyone day and night, 24/7, every day for all time. I’ll take your curtsey and raise you a human sea cucumber blob fish.

  36. Nene says:

    I find the idea of a monarchy in an age where “everyone is equal” to be ridiculous.

  37. aquarius64 says:

    I look at it as joining the military. There are people you have to salute to and people that salute to you. Meghan wasn’t forced and probably understood the rules before the engagement announcement. Meghan will be expected to curtsy before the queen on her wedding day, she refuses she will be branded ugly American and Donald Trump knock off with a quickness for not respecting another country’s customs.

    • Stevie says:

      The difference is that in the military, officers earn that title – they are not born tomit, or marry into it. And saluting is not an obseqious, bowing dow to another person, posture. You are both upright.
      No one else has mentioned this, but as an ancestor of slaves, the idea of Meghan bowing to her “superiors” makes me very queasy. I know she signed up for this. It’s her choice, but that is my visceral reaction.

      • African Sun says:

        I don’t think her ancestry in this situation plays any role into it. I’m from a fairly conservative African country, and in the rural areas, it is expected to ”curtsey” when greeting elders if you are a woman. I don’t find it disrespectful, I don’t think they are above me – just honouring tradition and older family members off my back.

        But saluting is still showing someone else outranks you?

        I think Megs will be fine with the curtseying, she knows she has to do it, so she will carry on.

        I think the curtseying is seeming to affect American commenters on this site more, because it’s fairly standard where I am from in rural areas for example.

      • A says:

        That’s not the point that @Stevie is making. There is a difference between being African, and the connotations that curtseying or bowing before royalty would have for African Americans given the history of slavery. Slavery in North America began as a colonial institution. That’s not an analogue between having to respect an individual culture’s traditions, that’s something quite different.

        I come from a culture that’s similar in terms of having to respect elders. I dislike it, and I’m hardly alone in thinking that, nor is it a generational push back (my grandma’s father, several of her brothers, several of their children, all of them have refused or voiced their dislike for the custom). Respect is earned. And many old people have not earned it, nor do they earn it by virtue of their age.

      • StillTotalled says:

        People who are so convinced military titles are always earned haven’t actually spent any time in the armed services. Plenty of salutes required to people one doesn’t respect, who may or may not return the salute (which, since the lower ranking person is supposed to hold their salute until it is returned, can get tiresome.)
        As an American, I see it as local protocol. If Meghan knows her own worth (and I’m sure she does), she realizes it doesn’t diminish her in any way to simply follow custom.

      • Princessk says:

        I can’t see what slavery has got to do with this. During the days of slavery white people curtsied to each other. Also Meghan’s ‘slave’ ancestry is always dredged up but for all we know she may be descended from royalty in Africa. Many members of royal families were captured and enslaved. Anyway on her father’s side she is descended from British nobility and I bet her mother has white ancestry too.

  38. Jayna says:

    Who cares.? She knew what she was signing on for and it’s worth it to her. She and Harry will be living in wealth with tons of subordinates to take care of their every need.
    So I really don’t care when and where she has to curtsey.

    • Olenna says:

      Agree. Having to curtsey is not a BFD. If she thought it would be, she wouldn’t be marrying him. Anyone who has spent time in the military knows what it’s like to have give some shithead their due with a salute or maneuver to walk on their left side when one of them outranks you. Like it or not, it’s a sign of respect for the rank.

  39. spidey says:

    Wouldn’t you love it is Charles banned curtseying on his accession, if he outlives the queen.

    And I just love how much some posters “know” about the RF, especially what they do in private.

    • A says:

      Mostly because issues relating to protocol are widely publicized? We may not know their personal lives, but adherence to protocol is something that’s hardly a secret. That’s why protocol rules exist, to govern how people are treated. Did you think that curtseying is just for the sake of the public?

      • spidey says:

        I didn’t mean protocol I was meaning posters who think they know all about how the RF think/feel about everything.

      • A says:

        Ohh, okay. Yeah, true. Quite a lot of it is just tabloid gossip, even though some members of the family have made no secret of what they think. But yes, some of the speculation is rather odd.

    • Princessk says:

      If Charles banned curtseying it would dilute the monarchy faster than it already is. I am sure it will go eventually but definitely not in Charles or Williams time.

      I am still waiting for my opportunity to curtsey.

  40. Valiantly Varnished says:

    I would struggle with this for two reasons: First, the idea of curtsying to anyone makes me cringe. I’m far too much of an egalitarian for it. And second: having to remember who to curtsy to and when would be insane. I’m sure Meghan knows she would have to curtsy to certain people. I have no doubt Harry has told her about protocol since she’s already met the Queen. But having to memorize the protocol for each person according to who is or isnt in the room? Yikes.

    • notasugarhere says:

      It really isn’t that difficult to memorize. When with Harry, take the lead from him. When solo, take the lead from highest ranking person & their spouse.

    • A says:

      It goes Queen, blood princesses (Anne, Alexandra, Beatrice, Eugenie), Camilla (w/o Charles), Kate (w/o William), Meghan (w/o Harry), Andrew’s spouse, and Sophie.

      If Camilla, Kate, or Meghan are accompanied by their spouses, then the order changes.

      ETA: Wasn’t there also a period of time, before Camilla was married, and after the Diana + Fergie divorce, when Sophie was the highest ranking lady after the Queen? I don’t blame her for being miffed about getting bumped just because of Anne’s desire to shaft Camilla.

  41. Other Renee says:

    So do commoners have to curtesy to any of them too or do the royal family just flex their knees for each other? My knees would not be happy. Just saying.

  42. Hazel says:

    Gah! I would need a cheat sheet! You know, like they have for poker? I’m always thinking, what beats what again?

  43. Nej says:

    Why does this site dislike Kate so much? Isn’t it very possible Kate and Meghan will be friends, considering they’re sisters -in-law and their husbands are pretty close too? Pitting women against each other for a story is pretty sad in 2018. #justsaying

    • notasugarhere says:

      If KM got off her a$$ and worked more often, there would be a lot less criticism. #justsaying #whateverroyalworkmeans

    • Levin says:

      It’s always the same commenters with an axe to grind (hence they’ll stew on a post and just populate the thread with fresh criticisms for hours). They come here specifically for the unfriendly Kate commentary, it’s just part of the site.

      • SoulSPA says:

        The pattern I’ve noticed: some are interested in gossip, some are interested in certain topics, some appreciate the comments, some don’t, some comment from time to time, some comment more, some are lurkers and some are lurkers who actually have the time to go through all posts to see who’s commenting where, what or what not. I was expecting such a comment these days, not for such a long time though and #todayistheday. More on #sparkleroyalengagement #sparkleisinteresting #moreofmeghanandharryplease #royalgossip #readcelebitchyandcarryon

      • Levin says:

        lmao SoulSPA, you WOULD be right on top of my comment. No one needs extra free time to note the sheer volume of your comments. The obsession!

      • SoulSPA says:


  44. Ollie says:

    She’ll do what they say and make the best out of it.

    I wonder how Meg feels about Harry the Sporthunter. How deluded and entitled Harry is. Using a private jet so he can join his bestie hunting. By the way Harrys arito friend has his own YouTube channel with videos of his hunting trips plus death counter. No wonder Harry liked him so much.

    The german press says Harry got special treatment. He brought his own weapons.
    60 aristos and friends with guns in a german forest… How brave they are. Harrys world.

    • Lol says:

      If he was hunting hogs then good for him. Wild hogs destroy everything around them including the environmnent and other habitats. In texas they are always hunted.

  45. Adele Dazeem says:

    If I were Kate/Meghan I’d form a fast friendship and alliance. They could stick together and make these events slightly more tolerable. Not to mention the positive pr of the two couples working together on things. They have a lot more in common than a lot of these old fussy duds and it’s nice to have a friend behind palace walls. Kate could bitch to Meghan about William…it’s not like Meghan would/can tell on her!

    • SoulSPA says:

      Kate does not need an alliance with Meghan. Kate has her blood family and except for them, her kids and William everything comes from second place down. I have the feeling she’s not loved much in the BRF.
      The only things the two have in common is that they are women, speak the same language and have a connection with the royal brothers.
      Meghan enters new territory with a world of opportunities. I see Harry’s cousins warming up to her. Camilla might genuinely like her. Charles might find her at least interesting as they share some interests. Even the corgis like Meghan!
      If anything, Kate needs Meghan to improve her declining image. Kate’s, mind you. Meghan is already a star.

  46. Chaine says:

    It all sounds so incredibly ridiculous. It should be easy, there’s one person that’s the monarch and one that’s the monarch’s spouse, how about everyone curtseys to those two and no one has to curtsey to anyone else?

  47. perplexed says:

    If I were Meghan or Kate, I’d probably want to make friends with the other, simply because we’d be in the same age range and we’d both be outsiders.

    I respect Princess Anne’s work ethic, but for some reason I feel having a conversation with her would stress me out (I don’t eat hay). I can already see her face judging me from the computer screen.

    Camilla may be a perfectly nice person to talk to, but she’s old and from a different generation. I also think I might accidentally look at her strangely at times given everything I’ve read about the Charles and Diana saga. I don’t think Meghan has read royal biographies, but she probably knows the basic details.

    Charles may also be a fun person to talk to on an intellectual level, but he seems like the sort to have a. timeline on how he goes about his day.

    The Queen. I respect her commitment to duty, but given all that she has on her plate I really don’t think she’s into small talk. I see her as a symbol as much as as a person and CEO.

    Then there’s Andrew. Yuuuuuuuuuuuuuck.

    I seriously think both Kate and Meghan would have the easiest time dealing with each other, work ethic or no work ethic, notwithstanding. Meghan is probably a hard worker, but since she’s an actress she also has some frivolous interests like all of them do, and that’s where hanging out with Kate probably wouldn’t be so bad. They can talk about the best mascara or whether Kristen Stewart will keep jeggings in style (hey, I’m not an actress, and I wouldn’t mind having these conversations. I don’t have a burning desire to talk about horses with Princess Anne).

    • Nic919 says:

      I think Sophie would be the best one to be friends with because she had her own business before she got married and had to learn how to adapt to royal protocol. She also maintains a fairly significant work schedule and she won’t be in line for the top job. Harry will be in Edward’s position when Charles is King.

    • Adele Dazeem says:

      I agree. I posted a less eloquent and detailed similar post a couple slots up and got, um, ‘answered’ by a Meghan Stan who said Kate isn’t good enough for Meghan, lol. But I agree w you 100 percent!

  48. MrsFToYou says:

    Odd situation . . . So does get granted full British Citizenship upon marriage?

    Americans are not subjects of the Royal family. So does mean she is considered a subject?

    • Tina says:

      We’re not subjects either. We are citizens of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland. Pretty much no one has been a British subject since 1983. As for Meghan, I understand that she will apply for British citizenship following the marriage and will retain her US nationality at least until that is granted (and possibly beyond, we don’t know).

  49. Mary says:

    SHE Has to courtsy to Kate? I agree part of the job description

    Like how I have to say hi to my boss everyday


  50. 42istheanswer says:

    None of that is particularly surprising, is it ? Obviously, it is archaic and arcane but then, the very concept of a monarchy is somewhat archaic and arcane so it fits the bill ^^

    Meghan Markle is a “commoner” (I loathe that word with a passion, it sounds so disparaging…) and she is about to marry a prince who will soon drop from fifth to sixth in line to the throne; William and Catherine, for better of for worse, will be king and queen someday so the calculation in terms of prominence is fairly easy.

    The latest YouGov’s figures are fairly interesting in that regard (and may shed a different, non-internet light onto the British public’s perception, interest and/or lack thereof into this) :,4711849,subid=110410X1568323X4a2992915a218ec86e6ed35f8ff304c8&pdl.rlid=203577

  51. Juliaoc says:

    Meghan will somehow manage to curtsy with style and grace, I have no doubt.

  52. Julaho says:

    I’ll be honest, I’m petty enough that I’d make my in laws curtesy to me too. Y’all acting like you don’t have in laws 😂

    • Tourmaline says:

      Right?!?!? Bow down, in laws!

    • A says:

      Same! The heart of all this is just family drama. Anne disliking Camilla, Alexandra pulling rank as a “blood princess” etc etc–it’s all just petty feuding of the sort we’re all familiar with. And let’s be honest, we all have family members who would enforce this rule if they could.

    • African Sun says:

      LMAO So true.

      Mad respect to the Princess Royal for letting them know she is never ever curtseying to Camilla. That bit had me crying so hard.

  53. katie3 says:

    All I can say is “Meghan, you still have time – run”!!!!

  54. lascivious chicken says:

    Grown women curtsying looks ridiculous. Should be saved for ren fairs and sarcasm only.

  55. Bliss 51 says:

    The figures linked @42istheanswer tell me Americans are the ones following this engagement and coming marriage. Too bad she can’t work. Didn’t Sophie work or did she resign after her engagement or marriage? I expect Harry, or I hope he did, fill her in on the curtsey folderol. My cats expect one from me, but understand they are genuine royals, don’t you know.

  56. Ozogirl says:

    The whole institution is dumb and outdated. They serve very little purpose besides gossip.

  57. A says:

    If this were a movie about her life, this would be the part where she throws the brief outlining how to curtsey into the air before breaking out into a song and dance sequence that teaches the stodgy old palace stuff a thing or two about American egalitarianism and being kind and nice to others.

    At any rate, you couldn’t pay me to curtsey to any of these people. Maybe the Queen, but only the Queen. And possibly Camilla, but out of sheer spite for every one of her naysayers.

    • Dixiebells says:

      I love this. I think all these curtsying stories have always been overblown. Fine they’re hung up on it behind closed doors. But even then I feel like reporters and sources are embellishing. Who really knows? I’m not sure it would be the greatest disaster to have ever occurred if someone messed it up. Especially a new family member. The queen strikes me a good balance between tradition and respect and duty but she’s not like an idiot about modern human interactions either. She’s posed for kids selfies. I think if a new, younger, family member, especially one who didn’t grow up with a monarchy as part of the national identity messed it up the queen would probably be reassuring more than anything. I get probably not bffs as she does seem to appreciate protocol and distance but I doubt she’s gonna ostracize mm either if she messes up. Sorry this was major stream of consciousness commenting. I’m tired lol.

      • Dixiebells says:

        And actually to support my point I went down a bit of a google black hole and found this:

        In the video of everyone arriving for George’s christening you can see the range of formality. I think it’s clear they’re a family and these are family rules per the queen and everyone respects them, but it also seems very friendly too. And noticeably William doesn’t really do anything because he’s holding the baby. I guess it all just supports my notion that the queen expects it but isn’t like a dictator about it either. Plus babies are distracting. Especially in that getup 😂

      • A says:

        No no, I agree with you. I think the media blows it out of proportions a lot of the time. Yes, they are likely a stickler for protocol, even behind closed doors. But I doubt they’ll rake a new member over the coals just because they don’t know the rules right away or are unfamiliar with the custom. At any rate, I don’t think they get hung up on curtseying as much as people assume they do.

  58. Electric Tuba says:

    I too have to courtesy to my sister in law every time I see her but I do it with my middle finger.

  59. Bliss 51 says:

    Y’all call that curtseyin’?! Pfffttt! Watch a Texan debutante perform one!

  60. perplexed says:

    Does Harry have to bow to William? Does Anne curtsy to Charles? Does this sort of thing only happen you marry? It’s strange that I’ve never pondered this question until now.

    I don’t necessarily think it’s a hard thing to adapt to though, even if you are marrying into the family, when you consider all of the free money and status you’ll get in return for following protocol.

    It is a status-oriented institution, but I do also think the people who choose to marry into it fall for their partners partly because of the status they’ll get as well. It might be suffocating, but I don’t believe they’re not attracted to the status as well as the man/woman. Heck, I think Camilla wanted to be Charles’s mistress because she knew she was going to be a mistress to the Future King.

    • African Sun says:

      Wow what a good set of questions. I never ever thought if Harry does have to bow to William but it is such a good question.

      Anne isn’t doing jack lmao!

      • Natalie S says:

        Imagine Anne staring down others in the BRF, besides her parents and I guess Charles, waiting for their curtsey. “Make me.”

      • African Sun says:

        @Natalie, Princess Royal is outstaring any of those cats even on Charles’ best day.

  61. Bridget says:

    My. That was an awful lot of commentary when it comes to Kate.

  62. sage says:

    I remember reading, probably the DM, that Zara said she would no longer curtsy after the queen passes. I don’t believe any of the women in the brf want to curtsy to Camilla or Kate.

    • Dixiebells says:

      I thought I read she thought people didn’t know how to do it anymore and she had always known how. Or something about growing up around it. I think she likes Charles, I’ve seen them chatting and being really happy in pictures. I can’t imagine as a member of the family that she’d put such a hard stop to it if they all buy so heavily into this practice about respecting the monarch. But who knows I don’t follow Zara as closely as the more high profile people so definitely could have missed article. I do feel like Charles might reinstate the logical order of precedence though, in that the number in line you are is how you’re ranked. That’s what makes sense to me!

  63. Shannon says:

    I’m fine with them both and think this rule is dumb but whatever the protocol I guess.