It’s a broken record at this point, to say that the upcoming election is going to be about women, or about female voters. Donald Trump sits in the White House because of A) Russia and B) white women. No one even bothers to try to change the minds of white dudes anymore – we know by now that by and large, they’re going to vote Republican, even if that Republican is wearing a KKK hood and burning a church. But for some reason, we expect white women to change their minds. For some reason, we expect white women to become “swing voters.” Historically, white women are swing voters in presidential elections, although I say that the “swing voter” ship has sailed at this point – the ship sailed when a majority of white women chose to protect the privilege of their white skin over everything. Even now, white, female Trump voters are not abandoning Donald Trump. As I said, that ship has sailed.
But I guess some former First Ladies still have hope that they can be the voice of decency and compassion, and perhaps change some voters’ minds. As we discussed yesterday, Laura Bush wrote an op-ed about the fact that the Trump administration is ripping babies from their mothers’ arms. Michelle Obama posted this in reaction to Laura Bush’s op-ed:
Sometimes truth transcends party. https://t.co/TeFM7NmNzU
— Michelle Obama (@MichelleObama) June 18, 2018
Rosalynn Carter also issued a statement through the Carter Foundation:
Statement from former U.S. First Lady Rosalynn Carter on children separated from their parents at the border: pic.twitter.com/WVg91SWutl
— The Carter Center (@CarterCenter) June 18, 2018
And Hillary Clinton also made a series of statements. She gave a speech yesterday:
Hillary also tweeted:
What’s happening to families at the border right now is a humanitarian crisis. Every parent who has ever held a child in their arms, every human being with a sense of compassion and decency, should be outraged.
— Hillary Clinton (@HillaryClinton) June 18, 2018
Despite what this White House claims, separating families is not mandated by law. That is an outright lie, and it’s incumbent on all of us – journalists and citizens alike – to call it just that.
— Hillary Clinton (@HillaryClinton) June 18, 2018
Those who selectively use the Bible to justify this cruelty are ignoring a central tenet of Christianity. Jesus said "Suffer the little children unto me." He did not say “let the children suffer.”
— Hillary Clinton (@HillaryClinton) June 18, 2018
I know WHY the former FLOTUSes are speaking up as a group, but as I said in the beginning of this post – it’s clear that they’re not going to change the minds of the demographic this is aimed at. I suspect that’s why Michelle Obama only offered one tweet – Michelle has seen this sh-t up close. The “white woman voter” demographic is almost overwhelmingly a lost cause. If they haven’t abandoned Donald Trump in droves by now, they never will. I’d be happy to be proven wrong, but I doubt it will happen.
Photos courtesy of WENN.
I respect the the goal and I’m glad they made the statements but unfortunately it will be screaming into the wind for the people who really need to hear it.
At the end of the day, his followers are just going to dismiss it as not important because it’s just WOMEN talking and worse, they’ll ignore everyone else and seize on the fact Hillary is saying words of any kind and the whole “lock her up, her emails” garbage cycle will roll again.
I’m so, so tired of it all and sometimes I just feel like giving up hope on sanity coming back. Yesterday evening two young teenagers called me a horrible racist slur that is used at Mexican folks in the parking lot when I was loading my groceries since I wouldn’t give them cash for some scam they were running. I was perfectly polite and said I’m sorry I have no cash, too. I was startled/shocked and I wish I had said something but I just froze…especially as it took me a minute to realize that they were calling me that slur since I’m Trini and don’t even look Latina….but I guess all Brown/Black people look the same for racist people. It’s not like I haven’t experience racism before, but obvious racist slurs spat directly at my face have been rare and much of it has occurred in the past three years.
I’m also worried about the Dem partying ripping into each other instead of fighting. I saw some of the white rose twitter journalist/lawyer bros attacking Hillary for chiming in on this issue. No, she was far from perfect on immigration but when she (unfortunately) initially wanted to send unaccompanied minors back to their home country for the most part….that is leagues different from Trump tearing two year old babies from their mother’s breast and splitting up families who are claiming asylum. One is not very good policy, the other is Hitler level thinking. I’m in California and most of the people who won our primaries were not the Bernie Bro types (Pelosi trounced Kevin de Leon). I’m so scared the purity test folks will sit on their asses and not vote when it comes to the general.
I love this country despite all of its flaws but as a dual citizen I’m sometimes very tempted to leave.
“Purity test” do you mean vetting out a candidate and choosing the best one based on your opinion of them? Because if we are just supposed to fall in line with Pelosi until she dies then we might as well make this into a dictatorship where we don’t vote. I’m tired of people blaming voters for splitting the democratic vote. If that is the case then the DNC needs to LISTEN to the constituents and put forth more progressive candidates.
You don’t see that happening with the Republican party. They keeping moving further and further to the “right” and neo-liberals keep following them that way. Sometimes, its hard to tell the two parties apart on issues that seriously matter i. e. war, trade, and immigration.
@CAPT MO
I don’t think that is what Div is saying at all. Of course progressive voices should be heard and progressive candidates should be put in to office and of course not all liberals should be expected to support all policies or people at the head of the democratic party. But changes within the party should be happening throughout primaries and by voting people in at all levels. You still have a two party system, and those who stay home because the democratic candidate isn’t perfect are essentially casting a vote for their opposition. Democracy sometimes entails choosing the lesser of two evils. That doesn’t mean you give up on moving towards your ideals, it just means that sometimes that happens in baby steps. I mean, Bernie’s policies helped shift Hillary’s platform further left and then many still chose not to go out and support her. She wasn’t a perfect candidate, but no one ever is and she was certainly better than Trump. THAT is how I interpreted Div’s comments. And if you can’t tell the two parties apart on war, trade and immigration RIGHT NOW, then you must be looking at something completely different from me.
Its good that they are speaking up, and I’m hoping that the op-ed from Laura Bush does have some impact (since she was married to a republican and she rarely makes political statements like that.)
But, I think white women who voted for trump aren’t going to be swayed by it. Sure, maybe a few. And the FLOTUSes should keep talking because you have to use your voice, you know?
But most comments from Trump supporters that I am seeing are along the lines of “my children are safe because I follow the rules, so these people should follow the rules and then THEIR CHILDREN WILL BE SAFE TOO.” Or “They should have thought about that before they left their country!!!!”
(I’m seeing people specifically saying the latter, and the former is always implied.) As long as it is not white children being detained, white women (who voted Trump) aren’t really going to care.
55% of Republicans agree with POS Tramp’s policy of snatching children who are Brown away from their parents/guardians who came here seeking help….and putting them in cages in the middle of the hot Texas desert in the middle of June.
Fifty-Five Percent.
Terrifying. I wish the people speaking out made an impact, but I sincerely believe that most of the GOP is essentially a racist misogynistic cult at this time denying cold, hard facts.
That’s a horrible number, but a small part of me is glad that that number isn’t closer to the 70-80% support the rest of the Orange Toilet’s policies have enjoyed.
Sorry where are the parents currently ? So it is just the kids
The parents have been technically arrested for entering the country illegally. It’s a misdemeanor crime and haveto go through the deportation process. While they wait, they are placed in detention centers. The issue is there is no system in place to ensure that once a parent is deported, the child will then be returned to them. You could have Parent A in a detention center in Texas and their child is in California. It’s deplorable to a degree that is scary as hell.
They are in criminal proceedings for illegal entry. After they get their slap on the wrist in federal court, they are transferred back to ICE detentions for credible fear hearings, which if they are successful, result in them being placed in removal (deportation) proceedings and allowed to apply for asylum before an immigration judge. If they are granted asylum, their illegal entry convictions are supposed to be expunged (we’ll see if THAT really happens). If they do not pass a credible fear hearing or lose in front of the immigration judge, ICE processes them for expedited removal (deportation).
In the past, ICE did not charge them in criminal court and just went straight to credible fear hearings. While technically it is a crime to enter the US without permission at a time and place not designated by law, it is not a crime to do so to seek asylum. What Emperor Baby Fists changed is charging them with crimes and making them plead guilty first, essentially treating them as guilty until proven innocent rather than our traditional standard of innocent until proven guilty.
@BearcatLawyer thanks for the explanation. So basically they have to go through the criminal system first, THEN the immigration system?
I’m reading something on WaPo about how the guilty plea for illegal entry could be used against them in immigration court and could be grounds for deportation. Is that true?
Yes. Historically we do not prosecute illegal entries as criminal offenses; they are treated as civil violations and prosecuted in removal (deportation) proceedings in immigration court.
ICE will of course use their guilty pleas against them as proof that they are deportable in immigration court. The irony is that whether someone is deportable is usually not a big issue in removal cases. I concede that point literally all the time. The issue is what relief a person is entitled to seek to avoid deportation and remain legally in the US (asylum, cancellation of removal, Convention Against Torture relief, etc.).
Oh and keep in mind that all these extra criminal proceedings and detentions are costing the US taxpayer millions of dollars. The GOP’s fiscal responsibility is a joke.
The parents are jailed and facing criminal charges in reaction to their seeking asylum. These children were not unaccompanied. They made the hard journey with their parent(s). There is no reason to separate them, except to be exceptionally cruel.
Ruining the lives of brown children is a feature, not a bug, for the Deplorables. This may change the minds of a few people who have thus far kept their heads in the sand but it won’t be enough.
I keep remembering the book A Time To Kill when a black father in rural Mississippi was on trial for killing the white men who raped his little daughter. A juror (I go by the books) told her fellow white juror members to picture that child as if she were white. They could not see that black girl as a victim because she was black. Unfortunately, a lot of people in this country cannot empathize with black and brown people. They couldn’t even empathize with Jewish children for a time until their existence was threaten. This is the country that held on to slavery to the bitter end.
I haven’t read the book but the movie was really good.
The book was better than the movie. Grisham’s first and best book.
Where was Laura Bush when this Cheeto was running for president? Or winning her party’s nomination?
HE TOLD US WHO HE WAS AND WHAT HE WOULD DO.
You can be silent until the moment where you can’t be anymore. You can say it (Trump’s actions) is the democratic political play but at a moment, the situation becomes indefensible.
She and others made their opinions known. It just wasn’t covered. It was too generalized.
Now their disapproval is being noticed and spoken of via main stream media. And NOW they are in no uncertain terms speaking about specific atrocities and directly countering the words and actions of the President and his cabinet. It’s major. You have bipartisan alignment of all former, living POTUS & FLOTUS saying Trump is disgracing our nation on a global level.
It’s sickening this is where we are, but also incredibly inspiring unity.
Michelle and Barack Obama are not white folks magical negros and as private citizens owe us nothing.
White people created this, white people need to fix it.
Slow Clap.
How about you all start ignoring these Unicorn white women swing voters? It’s a lost cause and aren’t there other groups who can decide elections? They’re NOT coming to save you, maybe everyone should stop paying attention to them and focus on those who didn’t betray you in the first place?
This idea that you just have to be cruel enough to turn off women is crazy. Women are not inherently more moral when given power and privilege. Ask Irma Grese.
This.
Plenty of us white women voted for Hillary and VOTE for Democrats; I’m one of them. Until the stupid white people wake up from their Fox coma, just gather those who are awake.
This white woman voted for HRC as well.
My “white dude” spouse and I both voted HRC.
We know a few people who could not vote for Two Scoops, but would not vote HRC, either. I think we had a slice of voters who just sat out the election, which is telling how deep party lines and/or dislike of HRC is/was.
Math is such a lost art, and statistics is just Math. First 52% of white women voted for Trump. You do realize this is within any margin of error on pretty much any poll. Keep in mind if the polls were right HRC would be our President now. Not sure why people live/die by polls now when they were a bit off at the election. They were polls, because voting jurisdictions don’t collect racial data to vote. Still the numbers are bad, but if you break it down, younger white women and college educated white women voted for HRC. So uneducated older white women swung the group. Second, you do realize white women make up about 31% of the US. With white men making up about 30% of the US. So if we give up on all of them we lose. Maybe one day we will win with demographic shifts, but if we keep the Trumpsters we won’t, as they will make it hard for people of color to vote.
Plus, aside from a lot of the statistical abnormalities done with polling, the only group which has truly polled to vote consistently and with a significant majority one way is African Americans. Basically because as a country with enslaved their ancestors for hundreds of years and then systematically abused them as a race and considered them as less than other Americans. They tend to have a common background and vote the same. White women don’t all have the same background to vote that much as a group. Still doesn’t mean we can’t shave one or two points and find the 80,000 people who made that idiot our President. I think we need to go away from identity politics and go after anyone P.O.C., white, green, purple or whatever who believe in our morals and the words of our declaration of independence. I believe there are enough people who are like you have got to be kidding me we voted the reality host who sells steaks and a fake University as our President. Or oh my god, I thought it was an act, crap he really is crazy to get him out of office.
52 percent of the white women who bothered to vote. If 100 percent of women voted HC would have been elected. Too many sat it out. That probably the margin of error the polling got wrong.
I’m a white woman, and I have given up on white women. I’ve encountered way too many of them on my Facebook who think this situation is no big deal or who even actively support it. Fine. But you’ve chosen your side, tacitly or otherwise, and people won’t forget that years down the road. Silence is complicity in the face of evil.
Where are the former Presidents? This is beyond some kind of agreement to not criticize a sitting president. Where are the men in the Bush family? Are they not wealthy and connected enough to be above not wanting to abandon the networking and money making opportunities of being a complicit Republican?
Republican men need to start breaking ranks. Save your party.
They do indeed need to come out publicly. A couple of noisy never Trumpers that no one ever heard of (sorry Rick Wilson and Cheri Jacobus – your twitter accounts are fun, but no one’s ever heard of you) can’t fix this. Famous Republicans have to do some lifting here.
As a Canadian, I couldn’t agree more, but as an observer it seems that the backlash from deplorables might make things worse for everyone not better.
Not that it would do much good. Trump is white America’s backlash against the political landscape as a whole, traditional Republicans included. They just hedged their views in enough subtle racism, homophobia, and sexism to make the path for his rise.
someone tweeted that a republican polster said that ‘suburban white women won’t like the policy of ripping children away from their parents’ in response to this Administration’s policy at the border in the upcoming election. it infuriated me because a) suburban white women have already made their bed in terms of who they support as a group (I say that as a suburban white woman who voted for hillary), and b) why is it only women who are supposed to care about children? this is the same sexist bullshit that men should only care about sexual assault “if they had to think about their daughters being treated this way”.
I don’t know why there is so much focus on white women who voted for Trump and not on those who didn’t vote at all.
Convince them to vote and the Democrats will gain massively. They are much more likely to vote Democrat than those who voted for Trump.
Their decision not to vote at all says all that needs to be said about them. White privilege at its finest.
Up thread you said white people need to fix this, but when I say that white women who didn’t vote need to vote Democrat, you don’t agree either.
Where do you think the necessary votes should come from then?
If you only want to criticise, that’s fine too. People who didn’t vote for Hillary suck, I agree. And now what?
The problem is the largest group who vote are white older people. We need all the others to vote. It upsets me women are so willing to bash other women. We need more women of all races in the room. I think it is a product of being oppressed, but it seems people feel better in oppression when someone is beneath them. (you know at least I’m not as low on the totem pole as them.) Also, the oppressed thinking of well I wasn’t allowed to do that so you shouldn’t be either as you are just like me. I think this was a big reason HRC couldn’t get a few more votes from white women too.
I get it, I’m pissed too though. Cause this just sucks. I say this as the demographic which didn’t vote for HRC, even though I did. Although I am the college educated part that voted for her. Still we need him out of office. Just being pissed isn’t going to work. Tell all your like minded friends to vote, and if you still have any Trumpster people friends lock them in the basement, LOL>
I posted upthread about how people sat out the election, due to not liking either major party candidate. Either people are far too party loyal, and/or just used dislike of HRC as an excuse to stay home.
People didn’t take him seriously, the same way nobody took Hitler as a threat in the 1930s. It was more beneficial to their progressive cred to scream about how Trump and Hillary were sides of the same coin instead of using the barest modicum of brain cells to examine how fundamentally ridiculous that suggestion was.
Just wanted to point out that there’s an important distinction when we’re talking about the white people vote. (Full disclosure: I am a white person with a college degree.) There’s a notable difference of opinion between white voters with college degrees and white voters without them. See: https://www.nytimes.com/2018/02/27/upshot/trump-losing-college-educated-whites-he-never-won-them-in-the-first-place.html
In the case of this terrible policy, there continues to be a similar split among white people. On page 15 of the CNN poll (http://cdn.cnn.com/cnn/2018/images/06/18/rel6a.-.immigration.pdf) released last night, 35% of white, non-college educated people approved of this policy compared to 30% of white college-educated people. The numbers are more stark when you look at his overall approval rating (page 7). Of the 39% who approve of his job so far as president, 54% are among white non-college educated vs 34% who have a college degree. And, obviously, 2/3 of the overall respondents to this poll did not agree with this zero-tolerance border policy.
Long story short, I guess, his sweet spot remains relatively poor, less educated white people.
That’s a dangerous assumption, though. Plenty of college-educated, wealthy white people voted for this man. The problem is privilege, economic and racial. As long it doesn’t touch them, they won’t care.
This is not the time or the place to #notallwhitefolks at us.
Sadly, I know plenty of college educated white men and women who voted for Trump. Most are quiet about it. That may be because I’ve made it known I despise Trump. Or are they embarrassed? I think deep down they know he’s a monster, but that almost makes it worse.
Honestly, most people I know are white and college educated, but few “discuss politics” whether they support Trump or not. Heads in the sand. Just now coming to understand this is white privilege.
Laura and George Bush publically stated they were not voting for a president in the 2016 election. By not openly supporting Hillary (like George Sr and Barbara) George and Laura tacitly gave approval for Trump. They chose party over country. Her words mean nothing now.
This is so awful and terrifying. I’ve written about my situation before and how disappointed I was with this country. Honestly now I’m just pissed. I am so mad at people like my sister-in-laws who voted for that clown and people like a good friend who voted for no one. They forget that they too are people of color and that these policies don’t just hurt people like me but everyone. I was reading an article yesterday and it had a couple of pictures of children crying as their parents were detained. My four year old son asked me why they were crying and I explained to him that they were scared. I was doing everything I could to hold back tears as I explained it to him. I am so terrified of anything happening to my son, of my family being split.
Clumsmy, im not american and i dont understand that much us immigration policy, but what is the solution? It’s cruel to keep children from parents, but what can be done to it?
Keep the families detained together as a unit as previous administrations had been doing for decades.
So what should the government do? Have an open door policy and let everyone in? Whats the answer to whats going on with the asylum seekers?
No. I’m sure there are one hundred solutions to this problem than taking kids from their parents. I’m going to make you think about five on your own.
Ok so you say there’s a hundred solutions? Give me one other than a snarky nothing. Don’t take the kids away? Not a solution. Thats cruel but not a solution.
The defense looked down at their notes. “One June 19, 2018, it seems that you made a comment on a known local gossip site known as Celebitchy. This would suggest to the jury and counsel that you have access to the Internet, a resource that provides an opportunity for relatively easy research into the subject matter at hand.”
“You know, I’m not sure I like the tone you’re taking with me right now.” Mr. Strawman sat back, crossing his arms. “Maybe if you were a little nicer about it and just told me want you want, people would be more willing to listen to you.”
The defense narrowed their eyes. “That’s deflecting from the argument at hand and fails to address the question. Your commentary would seem to suggest that you’re not actually interested in being educated on the matter – rather, just affording yourself the opportunity to make critical, rhetorical statements that easily allow you to dodge responsibility for supporting your position by promoting ambiguity of what it actually is.”
Strawman scoffed. “You people have a serious attitude problem, that’s for sure.”
The defense sighed.
“Don’t take the kids away? Not a solution. ”
NO, that has BEEN the “solution” for years now…to keep families together as a unit when they are detained and await processing for asylum or deportation.
It is such a false presentation to act like this situation is the only available outcome, because it requires you to IGNORE that the gov’t has been handling this SAME SITUATION for YEARS without needing to separate kids from parents.
At the absolute very least they should keep children with their parents.
“WELL YOU JUST WANT TO LET EVERYBODY IN DON’T YOU?” the strawman screamed, throwing hay everywhere as he gesticulated dramatically.
“Mr. Strawman, the question was about the perceived morality behind forcibly separating families at the border as a political and economic deterrent. It has succeeded in doing neither and has been found to be a violation of human rights by global organizations such as the United Nations.”
“WHAT CAN POSSIBLY BE DONE ABOUT ASYLUM SEEKERS? YOU JUST WANT THEM TO OVERRUN THE COUNTRY?”
“Mr. Strawman, if you look on page 92 of the collected documentation, you will that a basic google search yielded dozens of studies and articles detailing the complexity of the immigration situation and some workable suggestions that could deal with the problem more effectively.”
“I DON’T BELIEVE THAT. YOU JUST WANT TO OPEN THE DOOR AND LET EVERYONE IN. IT’S JUST A LIBERAL CONSPIRACY.”
“You may leave the stand now, Mr. Strawman. Defense now calls John Sealion to the stand, for what will likely be a rousing game of clueless bigotry.”
LOL That was awesome Veronica. You rock, you really do. A good laugh is more important that ever in these threads.
That isn’t the policy, and never has been.
Tearing families apart will not deter asylum-seekers presenting themselves legally at the border, per the UN treaty on this. The United States is a signatory to that treaty, and are in violation of it.
You know what this policy will do? Breed home-grown terrorists.
Maybe I don’t know what they should do, but I damn sure know what they SHOULDN’T do. If you’re having trouble with this concept, try harder.
People who condone this or any policy by this sociopathic administration should be made to listen over and over to the recordings of those poor terrified children crying. You did this. It’s your fault. Heartless monsters.
But they’re crisis actors, Anitas! The United States filled to the goddamn brim with hypertalented, alarmingly realistic baby actors ready to take on Hollywood in twenty years after they’ve spent their youth leading our country into damnation. God knows where these kids were twenty years ago when my generation was dealing with having to take Jessica Alba and Kate Bosworth seriously as actors, but it’s probably something liberals put in the water.
Everyone is complaining but not offering a suggestion to this situation. It’s appalling to think of those children being separated from their parents. Surely there must be another way. What would Hilary do? Who will house, feed and clothe them? Where do they get healthcare? Who pays for that? The world is overcrowded.
There IS another way, the way it was handled by all other previous administrations! Hillary would probably do what Obama, Bush Sr., etc. have done which is to house families TOGETHER while they wait for processing for asylum or deportation.
We house, feed, clothe and pay for healthcare for all detainees, REGARDLESS if families are kept together or separated. There is NO NEED to separate children from parents. There is no benefit. The administration admits this is ONLY being done as a deterrent.
Not sure if anyone will find this helpful—I got up to speed with everything not too long ago and openly sobbed over it this morning. I was always a Bernie supporter so I DMd his campaign on instagram and they immediately emailed me a petition to sign and the a link to donate to the ACLU. I KNOW it’s not much, but I can only hope it helps a little. If anyone here is also gutted by this, I urge you to donate or see in what small capacity you can help.
I just wanted to add a few bits information that should be shared but no one seems to listening or speaking loud enough. I was unaware of this issue until I read this article.
https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2018/01/15/when-deportation-is-a-death-sentence
https://www.thedailybeast.com/report-60-immigrants-killed-after-being-deported-despite-warnings-to-us-officials-
It compounds the hurt and anger as to what is happening today.
Damn.