SPOILERS for Game of Thrones.
I went back and watched the trailers for Game of Thrones Season 8, wondering if there would be additional clues now that we’ve seen the first two episodes. The very first teaser was something shot specifically to be a teaser: Sansa, Arya and Jon walking through the Winterfell crypt as long-dead characters’ voices speak famous lines from the show. The second trailer – with actual footage from the show – was this:
Something that struck me was the footage which is obviously from Episode 3, which will air this coming Sunday. It’s from the battle of Winterfell, and there’s a glimpse of Varys in the crypt, giving a sideeye to… something. And it also looks like Arya comes inside the main Winterfell building after already spending time fighting the undead outside. She’s running… somewhere. Which leads me to this fundamental question that’s everywhere after Episode 2: the Winterfell crypt is the BAD PLACE, right? There’s just too much foreshadowing that the crypt is SO SAFE you guys and that’s where we should put all the women and children and OMG the Night King is going to raise all of the Stark dead, isn’t he??
As Jon and Daenery’s army prepared for the fight against the White Walkers in Season 8, Episode 2 of Game of Thrones, they decided to hide those who cannot or should not fight inside the Winterfell crypts. In fact, several characters spent plenty of time going on and on about just how safe those crypts are on the show. So yeah, those crypts are probably, definitely not safe.
Many fans speculate that those very crypts could produce the evidence needed to prove Jon’s heritage: Some people think that Rhaegar’s legendary harp lies within Lyanna’s tomb. The crypts could very well be the site of Jon’s ascendency. But what role will the crypts play in that epic episode 3 fight that interrupted Danerys and Jon’s conversation? One threat seems obvious: All of the Starks are buried there, so it’s possible that if a few White Walkers could make their way into the crypts they could raise the bodies down there and bring them into their army of the undead. That means Jon Snow could face off against a zombie Ned Stark.
Some fans have even asserted that the Night King specifically bee-lined for Winterfell because he wants to raise someone specific that’s buried in the crypts. The Westerosi on the show don’t know how, exactly, men defeated the White Walkers the last time the two groups clashed during the Long Night. They only know that humans drove the White Walkers North and Bran the Builder, a Stark ancestor, erected the Wall to separate them.
According to the theory, Winter literally fell at the place where the Winterfell Castle now stands, and the castle was constructed to contain a being known as “The Great Other.” The Great Other is the Lord of Light’s opposite, a force of darkness, and he could be buried in the crypts. His presence below Winterfell might explain why the crypts are so cold when the rest of Winterfell, built on a hot spring, is warm. Starks have long been told that a Stark must always stay in Winterfell. Is that mythical lore or a literal command because if a Stark leaves Winterfell the Great Other might unleash?
My theory is that the Night King was/is a Stark and he knows some of the peeps in the crypt, and he finds some way to reanimate some or all of the Stark corpses. I don’t know. But I feel certain that the crypt is going to be a total disaster. I think Arya is running to the crypt because she’s figured it out and she’s going to kill some of her Stark zombie relations. I also think Varys is going to f–king die down there in the crypt. Tyrion too? Maybe. I also feel like Bran just knows how this is all going to end so I wish he would just f–king tell us g-ddamn it. It’s so clear to me that Bran COULD change the future or past so why doesn’t he??
Photos courtesy of HBO/Game of Thrones.
Tyrion will die but not that way.
I think Tyrion definitely dies, but not sure how or when. I don’t think Varys dies in the crypt. I’m not sure Varys dies at all, to be honest.
I think Varys does die. Didn’t Melisandre tell him that both he and she would die in Westeros? Although I guess it could mean at a ripe old age.
ohhh yeah I had forgotten about that. I like the idea of Varys living to a ripe old age (although I guess he’s not young anymore.) But I just don’t think it will be in the crypt. I think he has some more scheming to do.
I do think the idea of Tyrion, Varys and Jorah all dying at some point in the next episode would be interesting, because it would leave Dany adrift with no Westeros advisors.
I do think Varys dies next. Varys, Jorah, Brienne, Grey worm and Missandei – not sure about Pod.
Tyrion, Sansa, and Arya are the consummate survivors in this story, I think they will all live. I think the most likely ending is Sansa and Tyrion acting as regents for Dany’s baby and Arya head of the king’s guard. And hopefully Lyanna Mormont is warden of the north.
Or maybe Arya will be the one to have a baby. A Baratheon/Stark child to take the throne. I didn’t watch the first few seasons, but wasn’t his daddy Robert the rightful king of the Seven Kingdoms?
I’m not sure the mass deaths will be the third episode. I think they’re forced to retreat and another battle will occur in King’s Landing. That will be the devastating losses, IMO.
@LadyD – I’m not sure if “rightful” is the correct word, since Robert Baratheon took the throne in a rebellion against the Mad King and the Targaryeons (sorry, I have issues spelling that name, ha.) And Gendry is a bastard. But, his claim to the throne is just as good or better than Cersei’s. That’s why they were being killed off, right? (the bastards?) or am I misremembering that?
@Lady D: I doubt Arya would want a baby. Plus Gendry is a bastard and Arya is the 2nd daughter, there’s nothing there that’d make it “rightful”, they don’t have a claim to the throne unless everyone else is dead. The other bastards were killed because it’d be obvious that all of Cersei’s kids weren’t Robert’s since they’re the only ones without his black hair but none of them would be able to claim the throne. Arya could, at best claim, to be warden of the North if Sansa dies and Arya and Gendry together would be a nice nod to Robert and Ned’s friendship but that’s as far as it goes
@Becks1, Robert won the throne by seizing it, but his claim was strengthened by the fact that his grandmother was a Targaryen.
Arya and Gendry marrying will fulfill Robert’s wish that his son marry Ned’s daughter. Of course he meant another son and daughter, but he wished their houses to be joined.
@AryasMum – thanks for the clarification. I had forgotten that(if I ever knew it, lol.) I want to go dig out my copies of the books bc those family trees and lineages were the most helpful for me.
@Lady D, Robert Baratheon was the usurper. He led a rebellion against The Targaryens when Rhaegar ran off with Lyanna. Killing Rhaegar in battle. The Lannisters stayed out of it, loyal to the Targaryens until Aerys threatened to burn them all and Jaime killed him, making Rhaegar’s little son king. Tywin then swore allegiance to Robert, offered him Cersei in marriage and to prove his fealty, sent the Mountain to kill Elia Martell and her two children, Rhaegar’s heirs, which made Rhaegar’s brother the rightful king. Rhaella Targaryen fled to Dragonstone with little Viserys,, where she died giving birth to Daenerys. Robert sent Stannis to take Dragonstone and kill little Viserys and baby Dany but Varys smuggled them out of Westeros.
Robert is “the usurper”, he took the throne from the Targaryens, but yeah, he was king when the series started and technically there still is a Baratheon on the throne with Cersei (his widow).
Technically, no one TOOK the throne from the Targaryens —they lost it the moment Mad King Aerys broke faith with his lords by murdering a Lord Paramount and his heir, and then demanding other lords and heirs be sent to him. After he murdered Rickard and Brandon Stark, he then demanded Jon Arryn come to Kings Landing and bring Ned Stark and Robert Baratheon with him. The Targs lost the right to rule before Aerys raped Dany into his sister’s belly. The show is taking a lot of liberties with the story to expedite the plot, but based on the books, neither Jon NOR Dany has any more claim on that throne than Cersei. If they want it, they will have to take it by conquest. Robert did take it by conquest but he also had the benefit of Targaryen blood and the backing of most, if not all, of the lords of Westeros. The only person with a rightful blood claim at this point in the books is Stannis Baratheon, as Robert’s only heir. On the show, the Baratheon line is dead and so anyone who wants the throne is going to have to fight for it. This whole show thing of “you are the rightful king of the seven kingdoms” is bullshit. Sort of like the show claiming Jon’s birth name is Aegon, when in all actuality at the time of Jon’s birth his older brother AEGON was either still alive or had so recently been murdered there was no way anyone at the Tower of Joy could know this. D&D are messy and lazy.
I hope Tyrion doesn’t die! On my bracket at work, I have Tyrion winning the Iron Throne at the end. But now I’m starting to look at Sansa….
If it makes you feel better, on their wedding night, Tyrion told Sansa he would never sleep with her until she asked him to. That line was in the books, too. Well, I have been expecting that day to come ever since! So I think Tyrion and Sansa will end up together. Although IMO probably not on the Iron Throne, because she has to stay at Winterfell. (A Stark must remain at Winterfell and I don’t think it will be Arya).
It is very fun to see everybody’s theories! I can’t wait to see what happens.
doesn’t Bran know how they defeated the night King the first time? I thought he basically knew everything. why is no one talking to Bran!
Tyrion did … I think thats going to be important.
I think Tyrion learns they won’t all die in the battle, but I think Bran is telling him this because he is going to die and he knows it.
If Bran talks all he knows, the show ends.
Yes, Bran is a plot black hole – or, he would be if anyone thought to sit him down and ask a few pointy questions.
I was hopeful, when they set up the Tyrion (smartest man in Winterfell they kept telling us this episode) chat with Bran that their long natter would mean Tyrion working out how to defeat the Night King. They seemed to be settling down for the long haul and then five minutes later Tyrion is in front of another fire with Jaime as though he had never just said to Bran that he effectively had all night for a long conversation. The pacing is driving me slightly nuts. It’s such a shame that the series overtook George R R Martin’s writing.
I don’t think they ever killed him, he retreated tnx to amor azhai, maybe, and with the help of the children of the forest they built the wall and put spells on it so they walkers wouldn’t cross. living could cross it, but not the undead (hence, uncle Benjen-coldhands).
“doesn’t Bran know how they defeated the night King the first time” — maybe it took something that is no longer an option, like entine above me says, like help from the Children of the Forest and magic. So now they need to fight a different way.
I think because Bran will turn out to be Bran the Builder. There will be some weird mind’s eye trick and it we will discover there’s only ever been one Bran.
I don’t know. I definitely think the crypts aren’t safe. Will the zombie Starks be easy enough to defeat? Someone on here (or another message board, I cant remember lol) mentioned yesterday how the Stark zombies would, for the most part, be really old, and probably pretty easy to defeat. But of course, if the best way to defeat the dead is with fire, and you’re in the crypts…..that could be a disaster.
I am not sure about any of the theories about there being an important person buried there or anything (besides Ned or Lyanna), because I think that would involve too much backstory that I don’t think the show has presented at this point, and what is going to happen, are they going to stop the battle to explain to people how Winterfell got its name and the Great Other etc? I think the time for the really detailed fan theories is over, because we just don’t have time.
Of course, I could be completely wrong, lol. Much like with guessing royal baby names, I am really bad about predicting stuff on GOT.
But, I definitely think the crypts are a bad, bad place to be.
I think that the little bit we see with Arya running in a dark tunnel is her trying to get to the crypts to warn people to get out. Whether or not any of the dead Starks will actually be a threat is another story…I mean, how dangerous can a body be if it’s mainly turned into dust? Aside from Ned and Robb (whose body was desecrated after the Red Wedding) there aren’t exactly a ton of newly dead Starks.
That said, I’m in the same boat – I’m not the best at predicting what happens. LOL.
Beric and the Hound are inside the Winterfell building in the trailer too and the Hound turns to look at something that’s coming at them.
Wasn’t the woman who ran the Vale castle with the Moon Door in the floor also a Stark?
And in the teaser, Dany yells at Jon, “The dead are already here!” I think she could possible be referring to inside Winterfell when the Nights King raises the dead in the crypts. However, I agree, most of them would be dust at this point. Plus, they’re entombed. Are they really strong enough to move the stone slabs covering them and crawl out?? I mean, I think it’s going to happen. I just don’t really agree with the science of it.
@Lady D: No, she (Lisa Arryn) was Catelyn Stark’s sister, a Tully by Birth, not a Stark.
Yeah, Ned was beheaded and Robb’s head was removed to attach his wolfs head to his body so I don’t think they would be a real threat. Isn’t the youngest Stark, I forget his name, buried there though? He was killed more recently by Ramsay Bolton and his body was intact when buried.
@LadyD – no, she was a…Tully, right? She was Catelyn Stark’s sister and Cat was a Tully. (right? Again, could be misremembering.)
Beheading doesn’t matter for reanimation. Even just small body parts like fingers and bones can become a wight. There is only one way to stop a corpse or any part of it from becoming a wight, and that is to burn it.
The only dangerous zombie I can think of is Brandon, Ned’s brother.
@Lady D, no, Lysa Arryn was a Tully of Riverrun. Her brother Edmure is somewhere in the Frey dungeons. Her sister was Catelyn Stark. Her son Robyn is still in the Vale so he probably had her buried there instead of sending her body to Riverrun, which the Freys were holding at the time
LadyD: Lysa Arrin, Lady of the Vale, was Catelyn Stark’s sister – so a Tully by birth.
I don’t understand why no one on the show is like, the zombie maker is on his way, maybe we should hide out in the woods or something?
Yeah, I go with bad stuff happening in the crypts – even if it’s just the way the White Walkers get into Winterfell. In the trailer for episode three they showed on Thronecast Dany tells Jon of the dead “They are already here!”. At the time they are on the battlements so I took that to mean the dead are IN the castle.
I’ve thought for a while that the dead Starks would rise, but then have we ever seen the NK raise anyone the AOTD hadn’t killed? No I’m doubting it. I think stuff will go down, but I don’t feel it’s going to be a blood bath down there. That will be their escape route. Maybe Jon and Dany’s forces will retreat down there.
Regarding the Great Other, I’ve never heard of that. There was a gap of at least a couple of years in which no Stark was at Winterfell, so the saying may practical in that an authority figure must always be present.
Even if the Night King doesn’t somehow raise the long-dead, entombed Stark ancestors (who are probably bones or dust by now, as many have pointed out) , the crypts still aren’t safe. IIRC, when Theon took over Winterfell Bran and Rickon (with Osha, Hodor and their dire wolves) were able to escape through the crypts because they’re massive (bigger than Winterfell itself, which is quite a large castle complex) and there are many tunnels. Maybe the Night King knows about these tunnels (I keep hearing he’s supposed to be a Stark – though he doesn’t really exist in the books as far as we know, so even knows…) and sends Others/White Walkers through them to invade Winterfell from below.
The Night King probably has Uncle Benjen now, and he certainly would know his way around Winterfell’s secret tunnels.
Well, if TLOTR is our guide, the Stark army of the dead will be fighting for the Starks.
Ooh that’s a good theory too. That the Stark dead will rise but NOT to fight with the NK, but against him. I like that.
Yessssssss!
That would be awesome!
I’ve never watched an episode of this in my life but read about the zombies in the crypts yesterday and thought the same thing. Why should they be afraid of their dead relatives? Won’t the crypt zombies defend their home/relations?
The zombies become mindless killing machines once zombiefied. We have seen a few normal people die, then get reanimated and start trying to kill everyone. Bad zombies.
The zombies are the stupidest thing about Game of Thrones! Haha
Said it on twitter but I’ll say it again: the crypts were built by Bran the Builder, who also built the wall- there’s protective magic in them! If anything they’re emphasizing how safe they are bc something awesome is going to happen, like the dead starks defending the living or the wights exploding if they try and enter, like the three eyed ravens cave. Not to mention, what indication do we have that the night king can raise the dead if he didn’t kill them?!?! Every single wight was killed by a white walker, and if you kill the night king they all collapse, which means killing them gives him power. Ergo, if he didn’t kill them, they ain’t gonna fight for him.
This has been bothering me, also. We don’t know that the NK can raise just anybody. I’m surprised it hasn’t been mentioned before.
Plus, wouldn’t most of them be dust, and Ned is headless.
This does make so much sense. There are some theories that the Starks are descended from white walkers(just as the Starks have wildling blood and the first men) but I think it makes more sense that the dead Stark kings fight to protect Winterfell.
Also aren’t all the dead Starks buried with statutes holding iron swords? And the white walkers don’t like iron(in the books?). Given again that Winterfell was built by Brna the Builder who also built the wall, I think magic is fr sure afoot.
@LP: I asked the same thing here yesterday. If the Night King can awake every dead person. We have not seen it. We only saw Jon and his crew burning dead people because they think they can be awake. So it is like a precaution.
We know that the WW can raise anyone. Nowhere has it been said they can raise only their own kills. And the Wildlings made it a point to explain to Jon that they have been burning their dead for precisely the reason to avoid them becoming part of the Army of the Dead.
@Sunny- Osha, Bran, and Meera took a few of the swords when they fled Winterfell. I don’t know which/whose swords or if they were ever replaced, or if that is relevant to anything…
I think it’s going to be a piertotum locomotor thing. Stark statues animate and help defend winterfell. Not enough bones of the big characters to bring back, though i suppose hundreds of nameless Starks would work.
Do your duty to our house!
Winterfell is doomed to fall in this battle though. Having Starks reanimate to fight on the good side (how? Why?) would kind of be a wasted or pointless plot point for a battle where the WW win. The only people surviving the battle will be those who flee at the end.
This is awesome, and I really think its possible. When Starks are buried they are buried with iron swords to protect their spirits from escaping. In the books it is stated that night walkers hate iron too. So I think you are on to something. Also we have not had lady stoneheart come back as I have been anticipating for sometime now. And I do feel that the Starks “Always Remember” can imply they can’t be turned and always remember who they are. I said this a few posts ago but only targareons can ride dragons. Even the writers have confirmed this, to the extent, I do think its also posisble that the Night King has some lineage to snow or Dany.
I think it would be silly to see Ned and Robb in there holding their heads. But I think it would be cool and scary to see Catelyn with her slit throat. (We all wanted to see Lady Stoneheart! Maybe this instead)
Who could be harder for Arya to kill than her mom? (((Shudder))))
Is Ned’s head buried with him? I can’t remember if it was sent back too. If not, would that mean there could be a headless Zombie Ned? I’m not sure the show would do that somehow but I agree that some of the dead will be raised.
Ned’s bones were brought back, but it wasn’t even a skeleton+head, it all fit into a box so it seems that it was very dismantled… His brother and father are mostly ashes and the others are so old that they might not be anything other than bones too so I wonder how well they could rise. Stuff is definitely going to happen down there, but I dunno if it’ll be so much about the Night King since he doesn’t exist in the books (they’re white walkers but they don’t have a clear leader). We’ll see Sunday I guess!
Wait. The NK does t exist in the books??!
It only exists as part of one of Old Nan’s stories, he’s part of a legend he was one of the first commanders of the Night Watch. But the “Others” (aka White walkers) don’t have a formal leader. The whole Hardhome battle thing never happens either. Which is why, ultimately, I don’t think we should pay that much attention to this vilain (even if he’s going to kill half the cast)
The Night King does exist in the book , he was the 13th commander of the Night Watch, anyone telling you anything different has obviously never read it.
@ladystark you’re referring to The Night’s King who is different from The Night King. The Night King we know in the show does not exist in the books.
@Emilia, the NK in the book has several ties to the NK on the show. Although the writers have not confirmed or denied this, the text implies this. The 13th commander fell in love with a lady night walker, and turned himself into one for love. The story goes, that he brought her back to Nightfort and made her Queen. They ruled for 13 years sacrifice humans and babies. A prince was promise to them, and that prince is supposedly Snow.
But the Others in the books don’t have a leader! (or no one knows about such a leader by the end of the 5th book) They are travelling toward the Wall, they are killing the wildlings they meet and sons were given to them by Craster, but there’s no Night King that guides the Others. That’s one of the major differences between the books and the series
Has the show ever addressed the fact that Rhaegar named both of his sons Aegon? I don’t recall if the reason has been addressed in the books, but it seems Rhagar knew Aegon Targaryen has a destiny that needs to be fulfilled. That would explain why the lord of light brought Jon back.
I read something somewhere that Rhaegar knew the name “Aegon” is important to whatever is to be, something tied to the “the dragon has three heads” saying and a prophecy about the Prince Who Was Promised. So he had 2 children with his first wife, maybe knew they had been/would be killed and figured he’d put all his chips on his first child, told Lyanna that their son had to be named “Aegon”
Of course, it’s all just guesswork at this point, because some of the theories are based on the booklore, but who knows if D & D are going to follow those closely.
Ugh, I’m so not looking forward to next sunday. At this point I feel like the most shocking thing that could happen is that everyone survives, you know? (Lol, if only) Also, I don’t know that Bran can do much about the future. As far as I understand, he can only have some sort of influence on the past and present. Or, at the very least, he hasn’t reached the full potential of his power (which could end up with him letting go completely of the person he once was). Will he become One With The Force? (Hah).
I think this is the benefit of our current state of mind, lol. If everyone dies – that’s expected. I assume “some” main characters will survive, but no idea which ones. I don’t even think Dany is a definite since we now know that Jon can also ride a dragon. So anyone who survives will be a “win” in my book.
Urgh! My heart reading all these theories.
Part of me thinks that Jon will make it through the battle. Maybe he has some Greyjoy in him “What is dead may never die” came from somewhere, and since Jon is / was already dead, maybe the White Walkers/wights can’t kill him.
Then again, that saying may be referring to the wights themselves…since they are dead, they cannot die (maybe the Ironborn were short on dragonglass, fire and Valeryian steel when they came across the AOTD in previous times…maybe that’s what caused them to set up their dynasty on an island surrounded by water.)
I have two questions:
Can Bran share his visions with someone else? The OG 3ER shared past events with Bran, can he now do the same?
If Bran saw how the original white walker was created by the Children of the Forest, then why can’t he see how the white walkers were defeated by Bran the Builder?
I think he can only share with someone else who has the sight. And he still doesn’t have full control of his powers yet. He has said that he’s learning every day but still has much to learn about how to control and use his abilities. And he no longer has a guide.
No 3rd eye ravens can only program other ravens. Its not just one raven programming their thoughts into Bran. It is all the previous 3rd eye ravens too.
Do 3 eyed ravens have to be Starks? I wonder if somehow in their little fireside chat, which we know happened but didn’t get to see, Bran somehow set the stage for Tyrion to become the next 3 eyed raven if he gets struck down. Tyrion already has a better understanding of a depth and breadth of Westeros/world history and all the players then most – he’s always been an avid reader and a collector of stories high and low. if he gained greensight too, he would be a force to be reckoned with.
Nothing is going to happen in the crypts. They’re totally safe. They said so SIX TIMES in the last episode. Winterfell’s hottest place is the crypts!
But seriously, it’s driving me crazy that no one is making the connection between the NK raising the dead and dead people in the crypts. Also, why isn’t anyone talking about the wight dragon? They want to stick Bran outside for bait? The NK can just fly over him and blast him with a blue flame.
There are SO many plot holes. Not least of which was them staking out Bran with just Theon and a few Ironborn to protect him. I mean, I know Theon is on a salvation narrative arc but if I were Bran I’d be going “Er, no offence but could I get some more back up than the bloke who jumped overboard in his last fight, leaving his sister to be captured? You know, more back up than the bloke who has no balls, literally OR metaphorically?”
Since Bran knows everything, he will have watched Theon fight back his morality. Personally, I would put Ghost on him as well.
It’s not just Theon and the Ironborn guarding Bran; it’s Jon, Dany and the dragons too. Davos wanted the dragons in the field and Jon said no because they needed them to hang back over the Godswood as part of the trap for the Night King.
Seriously, at least send Jorah or someone else who has Valyrean steel to help guard Bran!
Maybe Bran will warg Viserion? That would be amazing.
He has to at some point. The old 3 eyed raven told him he’d never walk again but he would fly.
I hope so! But maybe he flies by escaping Winterfell on Drogon.
But hasn’t he already flown? Remember how he’s warged into ravens to do reconnaissance north of the wall? There was that super jolting scene of the Night King locking eyes with Bran when he used ravens from Winterfell to spy on the army of the dead.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=1&v=qSJQiY5nLGc
I read the hottest place in Winterfell is the crypts in Bill Hader’s Stefon voice. They’ve got everything! Grey scale and dwarves with dragon glass and a eunuch and a fire breathing dead dragon!
@Lightpurple:
LOL!
Lightpurple, please answer this quizz. You won’t regret it, I promise:
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I think the dead of the crypts rising is too obvious. Also that’s why they’re buried under iron swords, to prevent them from rising. However, Maester Lewin told Theon there were secret escape passages built under Winterfell. If the NK is a Stark, he might be able to send some walkers below from the outside and cause a massacre that way. Either way it’s gonna be a shit show. I fully expect some combo of Grey Worm, Beric, Theon, Jorah, Davos, Brienne Jamie and Pod to die. Also wouldn’t put it past them to kill off one major character we think of as safe. Valar Morgulis.
I’m guessing that Jamie dies in Brienne’s arms. I want Brienne to survive, but then I imagined them both being turned to ash by a dragon at the very moment she’s mourning while cradling him in her arms, kind of an ash statue like those poor soldiers in the loot train attack. And it stays intact until someone finds it after the battle, then it dissolves…
This show is messing me up!!
Unfortunately, I think it will be the other way around. Brienne’s story arc is complete. Jamie still has to kill Cersei.
@Megan I agree, I think she will die. Poor Tormund won’t be getting his giant babies
Agree with Megan. I’m going to bawl like a baby when Brienne dies.
I’ve given it more thought and i think Brienne will last a bit longer. I do think they’re leaning hard onto the crypt but for escape purposes. Winterfell is likely to fall, and whoever is left will have to flee to King’s Landing. I’d be surprised if they kill the NK next episode. Something is going to go down in the Godswood, but will probably just push the NK back a bit, not destroy him.
I’m so hoping we don’t see any friendly fire, dragon style. It’s truly a miracle that it hasn’t happened yet.
Also agree with Megan, poor Ser Brienne is toast. But I’ve been wrong, oh so very wrong, in my GOT predictions before.
When Winterfell falls I think they will head to the Riverlands or the Vale where they will be on friendly soil. Cersei has a massive army in King’s Landing and won’t be happy to see the Northerners.
Nooo Jamie would not kill his beloved sister. Cersei is on Aryas kill list so she will get her comeuppance soon.
I am hoping the crypts hold the proof of Jon’s birth parents buried deep inside. It is the proof that Daenerys will need to finally believe.
I am thinking not a lot of big names will die in episode 3, leave that for episode 5. But at the battle I see the following exit stage right: Brienne, Edd, Ser Davos, Thormund and Beric. I am hoping Melissandre returns and brings the lord of light to deliver them from all evil.
Can Bran see the past, present, and future, or only the past and present? There’s conflicting info floating around about this…
He can probably have glimpses of possible futures, but the future is so finicky due to ppl having agency and all that. Bran is barely human now, but I’d hope he’d still have enough sense to state the easy way to end this mess if he knew it.
Bran can’t see into the future-only the present and the past. He can sense people might be important for battles-but doesn’t know how/why or how it will turn out. He also didn’t know if dragon fire would work on the night king as “no one has tried that before”
Still drives me crazy that other than Tyrion no one has actually sat down with him and talked about the past. I feel like Tyrion being smart enough to do that and getting the entire 3 eyed raven story means something. He’ll be the new source of memory when bran dies? Because bran is toast. Theon to.
I still have my side-eye on Tyrion. That secret talk with Cersi, him standing outside the door while Jon and Dany were “together” and now a talk with Bran makes me wonder what he’s up to. Could be nothing, But I don’t trust anyone at this point.
I think it might be because nobody fully understands what Bran is now.
me, i dont understand! I need to go back and read up on it i think.
Yeah I think he’s just too weird for them. I mean he is spectacularly creepy. I find it funny how they all just leave the room after the council without giving Bran a second glance, only Tyrion bothers to ask if he needs any assistance.
Gilly needs to sit down with Bran and talk. Because Gilly is the only one with common sense and then she needs to tell Sansa. Because Sansa gets things done.
And Sam’s constant dismissal of “whatever Bran has” drives me crazy. You were sent to the Citadel to learn about this stuff specifically for this very moment. You have been handed a great tool to help you, Stop questioning your tool’s ability and start questioning your tool!
Gilly must have an important part to play because she has gotten way too much screen time to be inconsequential in the end.
@Megan – yes! The nice thing about nearing the end of the series is that we know everyone who is alive, is alive for a reason. So Gilly must still have a role to play.
I hate to break it to anyone that thinks all remaining characters have a plot point. But that’s not necessarily true. For some, the writers have written themselves into a plot corner or they just failed to develop them as characters and so they are easy kills. For others (*cough* Edd, Beric and maybe even Tormund), I feel like D&D expressly wrote them the implausible story line of surviving the fall of the wall and somehow running past the Army of the Dead (bwahhahaha) to get to Winterfell so that they could have more named characters to die at the battle and give it stakes.
My impression is that the Citadel has records of kings and houses, of rulers and ancient histories but this 3 eyed raven shit is Stark/North specific and largely unknown to the Citadel.
I distinctly remember Ned and Cat talking about how her gods were different than Ned’s and were still a mystery to her.
It felt a bit like expecting Rome to know the Celtic tales of Ireland
Wasn’t Gilly the one who found evidence that Jon was not a bastard…she was the one that discovered Rhagher’s first marriage had been annulled, right?
Methinks she has a role to play, yet. If they just kill her to inflict ‘man pain’/mangst on Jon or Sam, I will be most annoyed.
He is a greenseer, which means he can have dreams/visions of things that have not happened yet. He might not be able to fo to the future like he does with past and present. But he can see glimpses of the future like Jojen Reed (Meera’s brother) and other greenseers.
Tyrion talked to Bran. The next scene he says to the others “i think we will survive”. What did Bran tell him?!
Couldn’t the old 3ER see the future? He knew about Bran.
I don’t know about you all but I’m getting a bit of anxiety about who is going to die. I’m still getting over Ned….still!
For me the worst was Hodor death.
I’ve never cried so much since Bellatrix Lestrange killed Dobby in the book.
Hodor’s death was awful, not just the way he died, but the fact that his death was what broke his mind and he must have always known on some level that that was how he would die.
I don’t want to, because so much of the series is so disturbing, but I think after the end I’m going to have to go back and rewatch the whole series to figure out how it all fits together.
Just brace yourself for everyone to die painfully and violently. Then anything short of that will be a relief.
That’s how I’m getting through this season, anyway.
Wait, are you…..serious?
For me the worst was one of the wilding leaders at Hardhome, Laboda. How she was killed and seeing her come back as a wight was so sad. Amazing how in one episode someone can come to mean so much.
Well, her and Olenna Tyrell and of course Ned back in the day. And the named Unsullied back in Essos, the ones killed by the Sons of the Harpy and the one Dany executed. It’s been so long I can’t remember their names, but it was awful at the time. I felt more for them than the Starks at the Red Wedding (aside from the shock) because by then, I was pretty much over Robb, and Catelyn .
I’m rewatching from the beginning and I just saw Ned die again, I cried like a baby to the point of embarrassment lol, I loved him! It’s crazy how much I missed the first time around though. I was too focused on trying to figure out who was who and remember their names and families etc, but they give you a lot of little signs right from the start. I feel so much sadness this time around, because I know what heartache lies ahead for the Starks and how long it will take for them to see each other again.
Yes. I’m still mourning Ned
@HK9: i get you. I am still mourning Robb.
I dunno about the crypts, I think that there is something in there that he wants that will help him in his battle against the living and its not just Bran he’s after. There could be a weapon against him in those crypts. But yeah I think people will die in there but if there are hidden tunnels then its also an escape route for the battle survivors.
I agree. There is something in the crypts he wants. Maybe lightbringer is in the crypts.
I think it’s very possible Lightbringer is in the crypts.
Those tombs are quite heavy so even if the dead are made undead, I don’t see how they could break out of the stone tombs…. they transported that captured wight in a wooden box if I remember. Honestly, having Zombie Ned stumble around scaring children would be just too cheesy. So I don’t think there’s much chance of Stark undeads causing issues. I think it’s more likely something is going to break into the crypts from the outside.
It would be hilarious if the Night’s King isn’t even on his way to Winterfell but he only sent the rest of the White Walkers with the wight army, while he flies away to King’s Landing on his ice dragon and roasts Cersei. And the Winterfell battle is just a diversion.
That’s exactly what I think the Night King will do!
And I think Daenerys will see something from above while she is flying on her dragon, and will pursue the Night King to King’s Landing and everyone at Winterfell will think that she deserted them.
So far no one has really noticed that the NK is nowhere in the trailer for episode 3. I watched a YT video and the theory they had is that the NK and his dragon go to Kings Landing with part of the undead army to attack Kings Landing and force The North to fight a battle on 2 fronts. And I think they crypts are safe. Hilly and baby Sam are down there and they have gotten a lot of screen time and I don’t think their arc is complete.
I wouldn’t be too sure.
Remember when Dany brought her armies to Westeros and took on the Lannister army? First they heard the Dothraki coming. Then they saw them, a huge army of fighters on horseback barrelling toward Jaime’s men and their shields/spears, threatening to overrun them. As Jaime, the Tarlys and everyone else got ready to fight, and the Dothraki got closer, only then did Dany come out of the clouds with her dragons. Dragons move fast and can drop down fast out of nowhere….if they don’t roar on the way in, you’d never hear them coming. Night King can be nearby, ready to swoop in, just like Dany and Jon are hanging back in the woods, ready to swoop in on their dragons.
Uh, uh, UUUH, what if Arya is pregnant and survives (long enough) to give birth to a Baratheon/Stark baby that has a claim to the throne and the ending will be bittersweet as described because the white walkers are defeated but the fight for the Iron Throne continues with the next generation Targ/Stark, Baratheon/Stark and Lannister babies. After all this, the humans haven’t learned a thing and continue their petty power struggles.
And it would generate interest in the next book and maybe a movie. I do have a feeling that things may be left unresolved.
I’ve always thought the NK was a Stark. I have. From the beginning, because of everything that was said. And after Hodor, I thought Bran could change time…past, present, future. I have no idea how it all plays out obviously, but I will be pissed if Bran changes past and whammo blammo, Westeros is Eden lol. Knowing the show and Martin, I’m banking on the ending NOT being a sweet, nicely-wrapped package. I mean it has to be open-ended right? Room for growth, upgrades…all that?
I agree and it’s definitely more sensible than a Targaryen being the NK. It doesn’t make sense that a being of fire would become of creature of ice. At least mythically.
Apparently someone leaked all the plot of episode 3 on reddit and whew, it’s intense (if true of course) but I expected other characters to die (bigger ones i mean) so i’m good. And yes, the crypt thing looks like it’s going to be a disaster.
Ugh, thanks for the update, I won’t go there lol. I’ve been online more strategically lately because I really really don’t want to know anything. I wanted to wait and binge the season but that’s impossible without seeing something that would ruin the surprise.
Can please we not post leaks here?
ETA: Not that this is a huge spoiler, but still. I would hate to see Reddit leaks make it to the comments.
It literally says spoilers in the title of this post. Don’t come in here then.
Yeah, but presumably spoilers for Episodes 1 and 2. Kaiser doesn’t post spoilers for upcoming episodes yet. That’s kind of a crappy thing to post, even if its not a huge spoiler.
ETA and its different to post things that are from actual trailers or teasers, and something from Reddit.
I clarified my post to say leaks. If we are going to post leaks, then I hope that’s included in the post title.
Apparently the leaked script originated on 4Chan. That significantly increases the likelihood it is fake.
I read the spoilers for Ep 3 last week and now am waiting impatiently for real spoilers from 4-6.
The actors said that in this season no paper scripts were given to them to avoid leaks. Everything was really tight. They had things in pads or something and once they were done memorizing things were erased (?). So I doubt any real leaks are happening.
But many theories are driving me nuts. Like some people say Arya is long dead and the waif took over Arya’s face.
In response to someone said there was a lock down on scripts, the leaks aren’t coming from leaked scripts. The leaks are coming from leaked episodes. A lot of international distributors have been sloppy with their handling of the episodes and they are leaking. People were able to view episode 2 before it aired. There are behind the scenes people at distributors who have watched the next episode by now.
Take it with a grain of salt. So many reddit posters claim their fan fiction is a leaked script.
I do agree that these episode 3 spoilers are fake. I think Redditors have already determined they’re fake.
All i know is between the anxiety of not knowing which favorites will die combined with Bruins playoff hockey – i legit may have a bloody heart attack. I am NOT emotionaly prepared for Sunday’s GOT
Did you hear me screaming last night? Leafs are mulch! Between GOT, the Avengers, which I see tomorrow, the Bruins, and the Celtics, I can barely function!
Ha i paced the last 10 minutes and when it was 4-1 i almost threw up ( reference 2013 leafs spectacular loss). …i was ready for Karma lol
Hah! Your Boston loyalties are showing…I’m right there with you.
I’m not going to be able to see The Avengers until next week, and I am so nervous about getting spoiled, and about what it will be like. I think I’m going to have to swear off coffee by Thursday or the caffeine, adrenaline, nerves, anticipation will be too much.
That said, I am so looking forward to this episode, it is 2/3 as good as Hardhome or Blackwater, it is going to be so good.
Haha I’m seeing Avengers tomorrow, also. I keep thinking more Stark deaths. I’m preparing to cry all weekend.
Well, there are Starks in the Avengers too.
Lightpurple i literally just saw a headline about Tony Stark and Endgame and i was like WTF is Tony doung in GOT..then realized they meant avengers lol
Isn’t there allegedly a sleeping dragon beneath Winterfell, and it’s breath is what keeps the walls warm? Was that on the show or in the books? I am getting everything mixed up now. I really don’t think the dead Starks are going to rise- all but Rickon are dust & bones by now. I know in the books that Ned’s bones have yet to make it back to Winterfell and there was one character who was actively trying to block them from ever being delivered. I think we’re being baited away from something else entirely.
I thought there was a dead giant dragon buried beneath Winterfell. The hot springs keep it warm.
There is a fourth dragon in the intro!
However, it could simbolize a Targaryen and not be literal.
That’s the skull of Balerian the Dread at King’s Landing. He was the biggest dragon and helped the Targaryens establish their rule. The skull has been used as a plot point several times. Arya hid in it once to eavesdrop on Varys.
It’s so annoying that no one is asking Bran, hey, how do we defeat this monster? But… I LOVE your theory! Well deduced. Makes a lot of sense to me.
Bran is not supposed to be near any “military or war strategist”. He knows everything and he should not interfere with the past like he did before. Maybe that’s why he “doesnt know” how to defeat the Night king because he might have changed the future (?).
Okay so I watched the trailer again and there’s a clip of Cersei alone in the throne room, drinking wine. It looks like she is crying. Jamie’s death? What would make Cersei cry at this point in the show?
I think that the only thing Cersei would cry over is a miscarriage and her knowledge that reign of the House of Lannister is over.
Otherwise, I could see them making Cersei cry over the death of Tyrion rather than Jaime just to show that maybe she had some fraternal love for him after all.
The prevailing assumption is that thr Night King is a Targeryan. He rides the dragon. Only Targs can ride dragons, etc.
I anticipate some proper magic and creepy weird stuff happening in this episode. The Prince Who Was Promised will make an appearance at some point, but I don’t think this episode, possibly episode 4. I expect this episode’s plots to extend at least to another full episode. Even at 82 minutes, that shouldn’t be enough to cover *the* most signifcany plotline in the entire dumb series lol.
Only Targs or Valerians (all gone) can ride in the books, but the prevailing theory is that the Night King is a Stark. Since he’s warging, perhaps that’s how they get over that hole. I don’t know if the rules on dragon riding that are in the books are relative in the show. I agree that the Prince(ss) will be later, one of the final episodes. This will just be the battle for this episode.
That doesn’t make any sense as the Targaryens only came to Westeros 300 years ago with Aegon the Conquerer and the White Walkers have been around for thousands of years.
Correct Emilia. I have said this about 10 times in the past two weeks on various posts. Also the dragon died, its mind is controlled by the NK, so the Targ/Valerian requirement to ride is out of the window.
they should’ve open the crypts and burned the bones before the fight. Also, they could’ve gotten something flammable to throw at the wights/zombies like they did with the hot oil at the wall and castle black when the wildings were invading.
You can’t just open all the tombs and burn all the deads in the crypt: there are >1000 years of corpses down there. They are mostly dust by then and the tombs are heavy as hell (also fire and underground tunnels don’t go well together, which might become the real issue for those in the crypt on Sunday.
I was thinking fire over the walls, burning the wights as they go up, , not like it hapenned to the lover cousin under the sept.
sad it will go over like that Brad Pitt’s zombie movie at the Israel wall.
It may or may not have to do with the crypts, but Arya is definitely running FROM something. In the clips, you can see 2 people behind her at times. Perhaps leading something bad away? The crypts are MASSIVE and she would know them very well. There are definitely other ways in (uh-oh), and other ways out for escape.
Part of me wonders if the crypts won’t be bad, since we now have everyone freaking out about them. Double red herring? I think as a fan service, something related to Rhaeger is hidden in Lyanna’s tomb (his harp maybe). Or something for the prophesy. I also wonder if the Night King won’t be using the military strategy everyone else has used in the show, sending a small party to distract the main human army, and meanwhile is flying down to King’s Landing to take over those 1 million people within the walls. They’re going to need some more wildfire.
I also don’t think any of the leaks on Reddit are real. There have been posters proven to have real inside knowledge and none of them have said anything after the first episode. HBO figured out a way to lock the spoilers down until the day of.
They have used that diversion tactic several times now with Robb using it on Jaime first and then Jaime copying it to take Highgarden. They have also used “surprise army from somewhere else rushes in at the last minute” to save the day three times now. I don’t think anyone is rushing in this time. This will be more like Hardholme than Battle of the Bastards.
…A Stark must always be in Winterfell.
There’s been a rumor that the full saying is “So the dead may rest, a Stark must always be in Winterfell.”
Bran isn’t a Stark. He’s The Three Eyed Raven now. Sansa? Arya? Do girl children count?
Bran will varg (sp) into the stolen dragon, thus flying again, and take out much of the night walker armies. Jon will go toe-to-toe with the Night King and must defeat him. Could Arya running be a dream sequence? Will she call on her teacher, the one that taught her to become other people?
Ooooh, dream sequence would be a cheap trick but you might be on to something… except when would she be sleeping?
I’m wondering if we’ll see zombie Hodor and zombie Summer as part of the army of the dead. They were both killed by wights.
And Zombie Uncle Benjen
I don’t think it’s a ‘he’ under there. It’s ‘she’. And if they go this route everyone watching is going to 🤯 by the end. I cannot wait to see if they really do this. But it would also be fine by me if he’s actually headed to King’s Landing to take that down, and that’s what the Dany vision was in season four. Just have to wait and see!
No. The Night King is a man. GMAB.
No ma’am. Not at all who I’m talking about.
Catherine Stark??
Tyrion will live.
And there’s that magic that kept uncle Benji from turning fully undead, plus there was magic in the wall that prevented him from leaving so now that it’s down maybe he’ll ride in to save the day at some crucial moment? If uncle Benji can be half-undead maybe there’s hope for the folks in the crypt?
Love the thumbnail and banner pictures.
Anyone can die in episode 3, I honestly don’t care all that much, but my beloved Night King would better make it out “alive”.
P.S.: Kaiser, comment #31 is a spam.
So this is how my brain works at 1230 at night when its supposed to be sleeping (i warn ya this aint pretty)
So obviously i am obsessing about Game of Thrones. So if you watch you know the Stark family and how badass the kids turned out to be (not you Rickon who doesnt know how to zigzag😒). You know who else is a Stark…ummm IRON MAN.
Mind BLOWN right!! So my brain had a whole scenario of Iron Man (obviously his mother was an Iron Born ha) comes in to help Danys dragons!!
and yes this is my mind awake not asleep lol
I think there are escape tunnels from the crypts and many of them will escape via that route. Hoping this is the case.
Bran can’t see the future, only the past and present so he doesn’t know how it’s going to end. Other than that, if something indeed happens in the crypts it would be terrible writing, since Jon and others have literally seen NK raising people from the dead, how would this not be at least pondered before sending everyone down the crypts?
CREMATION. There’s a lesson in all of this: cremate your dead.