Joe Biden’s ‘record player’ flub at the Dem Debate was not funny, it was awful


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I didn’t watch the Democratic Debate last night. If you want me to go deep about any of it, I am incapable. Bernie Sanders’ old-man-yelling drives me up a wall. Joe Biden’s sexist/folksy attitude kills me. And I wasn’t willing to watch THEM just to hear what Kamala Harris and Elizabeth Warren had to say. Besides, in a three-hour debate, there were no questions about abortion, reproductive rights or sexual harassment?? Is that right? Yikes. But here’s what we got instead: Joe Biden screeching about how parents need to turn on the… record player? For the kids.

And in case you needed context, THE CONTEXT MAKES IT WORSE. Joe Biden really said this sh-t and he’s still the f–king frontrunner for the Democratic nomination??

Linsey Davis: Mr. Vice President, I want to talk to you about inequality in schools and race. In a conversation about how to deal with segregation in schools back in 1975, you told a reporter, “I don’t feel responsible for the sins of my father and grandfather. I feel responsible for what the situation is today, for the sins of my own generation, and I’ll be damned if I feel responsible to pay for what happened 300 years ago.” You said that some 40 years ago, but as you stand here tonight, what responsibility do you think that Americans need to take to repair the legacy of slavery in our country?

Joe Biden: Well, they have to deal with the … Look, there is institutional segregation in this country. And from the time I got involved, I started dealing with that. Redlining, banks, making sure that we are in a position where— Look, we talk about education. I propose that what we take is those very poor schools, the Title 1 schools, triple the amount of money we spend from $15 to $45 billion a year. Give every single teacher a raise to the equal of … A raise of getting out of the $60,000 level.

No. 2, make sure that we bring in to the help with the stud—the teachers deal with the problems that come from home. The problems that come from home, we need… We have one school psychologist for every 1,500 kids in America today. It’s crazy. The teachers are required—I’m married to a teacher. My deceased wife is a teacher. They have every problem coming to them.

Make sure that every single child does, in fact, have three, four, and five-year-olds go to school. School! Not day care, school. We bring social workers into homes of parents to help them deal with how to raise their children. It’s not that they don’t want to help. They don’t know what— They don’t know what quite what to do. Play the radio. Make sure the television—excuse me, make sure you have the record player on at night. The phone—make sure the kids hear words. A kid coming from a very poor school—er, a very poor background will hear 4 million words fewer spoken by the time they get there.

Davis: Thank you, Mr. Vice President.

Biden: No, I’m going to go like the rest of them do, twice over, OK? Because here’s the deal. The deal is that we’ve got this a little backwards. And by the way, in Venezuela, we should be allowing people to come here from Venezuela. I know Maduro. I’ve confronted Maduro. No. 2, you talk about the need to do something in Latin America. I’m the guy that came up with $740 million to see to it those three countries, in fact, change their system so people don’t have to chance to leave. You’re all acting like we just discovered this yesterday! Thank you very much.

[From Slate]

I’ve mostly sat out of covering the Democratic Debates and the horse race bulls–t of the pre-primary season, but I’ll say something bold today: Joe Biden needs to step down. He needs to stop running for president, or for the Democratic nomination. Enough. This should not be the f–king conversation in 2019, in the third year of the Trump presidency. ENOUGH.

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Photos courtesy of Getty.

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155 Responses to “Joe Biden’s ‘record player’ flub at the Dem Debate was not funny, it was awful”

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  1. Sarah says:

    It wasn’t funny at all.

    • Pixelated says:

      THANK YOU for saying he was horrible. My husband and I watched most of it and were consistently saying how awful he was, and WaPo & CNN both said ‘he did a good job.’ 🙄 my husband is feelin’ the Bern & I thought Mayor Pete did a good job. I don’t know, though….it really wasn’t super inspiring all around.

    • Kimberly says:

      wouldnt vote for Betos or biden

      Betos was a desperate obvious b**ch.
      Biden was over confident when he started his campaign.

      Betos twisted Biden’s words you are automatically signed up for Biden’s proposed healthcare if you live a specific amount under the poverty level. If you live over you can opt out. Betos is desperate and wanted tomake the headlines and in the end looked like a needyAF pissAnt.

      • Anne Call says:

        I think you mean Julián Castro not Beto. He’s the one that called Biden out.

      • Amanita says:

        Castro’s attack is not going to age well at all. He did got his facts wrong to begin with, and Dem voters want the candidates to play nice. I heard that at the Iowa fair a little while ago and I keep hearing it. They don’t want toxicity and Castro was pretty toxic.
        A pity, I like his Marshall plan idea for Central America and I used to think that Clinton made a huge mistake by not picking him as running mate. and it turns out that his – misplaced – attacks on Biden were rehearsed.

      • Jb says:

        His name is BETO not betos Jesus! If you’re going to criticize the man at least get his name right. I’m not a fan of his but good lord you sound so ignorant right now.

      • Tanguerita says:

        @jb thank you. this kimberly person made me cringe.

    • himmiefan says:

      I’ve said that he’s the only one who can beat Trump, but now I’m looking at Warren.

  2. Nicegirl says:

    ITA

  3. Kitten says:

    It was unsurprisingly terrible.

    And it is utterly infuriating to watch centrist Dems insist that Biden’s candidacy is not only viable, but the *only one* that can beat Trump. This seems to be the go-to false narrative that is presented anytime VALID criticism is leveled at Biden.
    It’s a false choice. The idea that a bumbling old man who is clearly out-of-touch with a large faction of the left is The Only Answer to Trumpism is not only arrogant but incredibly short-sighted because while Biden *may* beat Trump, he will not defeat Trumpism. And in many ways, Biden’s candidacy is a study in white male privilege: he’s done the bare minimum to reap all the rewards, riding on the coattails of a black president who could never be perfect enough.

    • Esmom says:

      I don’t get it. It’s really disheartening.

      • Some chick says:

        I get it. It’s really disheartening.

        Hopefully SOMEone (Warren?) can emerge from the pack and take the lead!

    • notpretentious says:

      Preach Kitten!

    • Another Anne says:

      It’s amazing that in 2020, our only choices for president could be two bumbling, elderly white men struggling with dementia.

      In the real world, they start hustling you out of the workplace while you’re in your 50′s. But in politics, senility seems to be the preferred option.

      • Ramona Q. says:

        What types of jobs hustle people in their 50s out of the workplace?

      • Some chick says:

        Tech.

      • India Rose says:

        Not to nitpick, but you’re using the terms dementia and senility incorrectly. Dementia is a progressive, degenerative neurological disease, an umbrella term that Alzheimer’s falls into. Joe’s fumbling message and outdated ideas do not equal a diagnosis of dementia. Senility is an old term used before the details of dementia were scientifically determined. Anyone who still uses that word is misinformed. Yes, this was nitpicky on my part, but I worked in the field for many years and I feel protective of those terms — the way we are learning to use caution when throwing around mental health diagnoses, etc. In other news, go Elizabeth Warren! She’s got my vote.

      • Soupie says:

        @Ramona

        Law. The corporate world in general.

    • Ann says:

      Kitten I feel you about the centrists. They are driving me crazy. I’m so sick of them insisting that Biden is the one and only who can take down trump. That is simply not true. And the fact that centrists keep up this BS makes them look so weak. We have all these bold, effective progressives out there kicking ass right freaking now and centrists are still fretting away about how we’re going to be able to work across the aisle. F that! We need Liz or Bernie more than ever to make moderate wankers like Biden a thing of the past.

    • whatWHAT? says:

      “And in many ways, Biden’s candidacy is a study in white male privilege: he’s done the bare minimum to reap all the rewards, riding on the coattails of a black president who could never be perfect enough.”

      SO WELL SAID. Thank you for this.

    • Lilith says:

      And if you actually did some work, instead of kibitzing from the margins, you’d be enlightened fast on what large portions of the electorate want. Biden is awful, I agree, but people in the suburbs will not vote for Sanders or Warren (alas) because they’re afraid to rock to boat. Sanders and Warren have little name recognition among African American voters. Don’t believe me, go to Flint and ask around.
      I’m beyond certain that Trump will lose the popular vote by 5 million and more. People will show up to express their hatred of him. But the margins that count are in just three states, and in just a handful of counties. You, in LA or Chicago, don’t matter, as crappy as it is. A voter in Erie county, PA or Muskegon, MI has way more weight than you.

      • Grant says:

        Lilith, I agree with you. Bernie and Warren are just too far to the left, and I say that as someone who likes Warren. We will lose the moderate vote and like you said, neither one of them carries weight with African American voters. I just don’t think it’s going to happen and I’m feeling very dispirited about 2020.

      • terra says:

        @Lilith

        It’s likely true that Elizabeth Warren and Bernie Sanders have little chance of winning the vote in small towns in Pennsylvania or Michigan. So, why can’t I, a liberal voter in Houston where my vote for a democrat almost means nothing at all, just accept Joe Biden? To quote Leo McGarry:

        “Because I’m tired of it. Year after year after year after year having to choose between the lesser of who cares? Of trying to get myself excited about a candidate who can speak in complete sentences. Of setting the bar so low, I can hardly look at it.”

      • Kitten says:

        *YAWN*

      • Lilith says:

        Yawn? How mature. How eloquent. How devastatingly convincing.
        Make sure to not work for Warren. You’re useless.
        Terra, I’m bitter about Biden shaping itself as the nominee next year. I want Warren, and I hope she keeps building in the voters’ consciousness. But here’s the prize: thousands of children NOT being made into orphans at the border. That actually lights a fire under my ass.

      • Kitten says:

        LOL looks like I struck a nerve.

        Look, I’ve heard this same BS a million times so forgive me if I’m bored shitless by it. And no, it’s not my responsibility to convince you to vote for Warren (like, really dude?). I’ve been knocking doors for her, not wasting time on the internet with folks who’ve convinced themselves that Joe is the answer. But hey, keep that same energy about the children in cages when you live through 4 years of Biden’s lukewarm presidency because you’re gonna need it when we have another Trump in office in 2024. Because we’re not going to go back to the Obama Years, no matter how much you want to. We’re never coming back from a Trump presidency until we have someone who goes into the Oval Office with a plan for structurally changing the unimaginable mess that we’ll surely be left with and Obama Lite ain’t gonna cut it.

      • Amanita says:

        “Struck a nerve” is a vague and ad hominem retort. It doesn’t say anything.

      • Tiffany :) says:

        My friends in Iowa are campaigning for Warren, and she has a lot of support in that state (not LA or Chicago, yay!). Warren will stand and take photos with voters for hours, and her ground game is incredibly persuasive. She’s really great at discussing middle class issues, and I think that matters so much. She’s the only candidate to consistently INCREASE her support so far in polls. The more time she spends in WI, MI and PA, I think they will give her more support.

        African American voters didn’t support Barack Obama in early polling because they didn’t believe he could win. At the start he was 24 points behind Clinton with overall voters, but 40 points behind with African American voters. I think given time, this demographic will come around to Warren when they see what she has to offer. I think we are all scared about picking someone who can’t win. Joe seems like safe bet based on name recognition, but his performance has been seriously lacking.

      • terra says:

        @Lilith, see, I refuse to accept Biden without a fight. If I had to, I’d swallow my pride and vote for him in a general, but I’d hate every second of it.

        It’s the difference between me and the Bernie supporter campaigning for a friend for school board outside of my polling place back in 2016. She unashamedly announced she’d voted for Trump rather than Clinton. She’s who I thought of later than night when my television shouted the end of the world at me.

        So, I’ll fall in line if I have to, but I won’t do it happily and I won’t pretend it’s enough just to be rid of Trump. Because, like Kitten said, if we don’t choose someone willing to put in the work we’ll just be in the same position again, 100%. If we pick a conscientious nominee we’ll at least stand a chance going forward.

        @Tiffany, that’s somewhat encouraging about Warren in Iowa. I’m not completely sold on any democrat running, but she offends me less than many others.

        Re: those polling numbers. I remember reading that in 2007/2008. I voted for Obama over Clinton in the primary for both the same AND the opposite reasoning: I thought Obama had a better chance of winning than Clinton.

        I grew up with a Libertarian-leaning father who drank the Kool-Aid about the Clintons, so I knew how deep the irrational hate ran. My late father was brilliant, but blinded when it came to the two of them. Made no sense to me, but I knew enough to recognize it.

      • Snappyfish says:

        @lilith…you are right. PA, Michigan & Wisconsin & as sad as it is they will vote for Joe but not Bernie or Warren. The label Progressive is too off-putting. I think the VP choice will be a good slot for a progressive . I see Biden (who I have a great many issues with) as a vote to right the ship as it were. Repair our position with our allies & that is something Biden can do. He might also be able to help congress get some work done as , regardless of what it should be, it IS the old boy network & he has been a member for a long time. I will vote whomever the nominee (never a third party) even if I need to ‘hold my nose’

        Let’s face it, we have been smelling the reek of rotting democracy ever since the Fraud in the Oval was inaugurated

    • CK says:

      I get that it’s de jour to hate on centrists, but they tend to make up a larger portion of the Democratic party than the left. Biden’s winning not only on name recognition, but because he’s closer to policy positions of the party at larger than Warren/Sanders are. Heck, Joe’s also winning because he’s not cratering with voters to the left in the party. He’s dominating the conservatives and the moderates and also coming in a close second/third with progressives.

      I don’t care for Joe at all, but it’s not the fault of centrist or moderate voters that everyone lost their mind in 2016 and tried to run to the left with Bernie Sanders on every issue, and then decided to run for president. It was a terrible misreading of the democratic electorate that ignored Clinton’s primary strength. Unless anyone can make better inroads w/ black voters (heavily Biden) and start to dominate the various white factions (split by very thin margins between the top 3), they’re not going to beat him.

      • Kitten says:

        Sigh. Man, am I sick of the armchair punditry. Suddenly, we’re all statistical analysis and polling experts. Personally, I don’t give two f*cks about what moderate Dems want and I would never base my vote on a presumption of what the majority of the Dem base is looking for. But as an independent, I DO know what myself and other left-leaning indies want and no, it ain’t Biden.

        And for the sake of your argument, you need to understand that the nom isn’t hinging on black voters, sadly. Right now, Sanders and Biden are in a statistical dead-heat in NH and Warren continues to steadily gain in both NH and Iowa while Biden is consistently dropping points. And sure, if you ignore that trend entirely then you’re probably right: Biden is the only answer.

      • Lilith says:

        Oh, look, you found articulation instead of rude onomatopoeia. My point stands, don’t volunteer for Warren’s campaign, you don’t know how to engage with people outside your comfort one. And try not to mix the primaries with the generals in your, ahem, analysis.

      • Kitten says:

        Oh snap. Too bad I’m already knocking doors for her BAHAHAHAHA.
        Should I tell the campaign organizers that some random internet stranger that I was mean to her so I must not be cut out for the job? LOL

        What’s funny is you accusing me of not being able to engage with folks when I’ve been commenting here for 8 years and pretty much talk to everyone on this board. Maybe it’s just you?

      • Lilith says:

        You should actually. You should only be relegated to the proverbial work of licking stamps.

      • CK says:

        I’m sorry, but this “Wisconsin” point is nonsense. Black voters make up a larger portion of the electorate in more states that give more delegates combined than Wisconsin. Bernie beat Hillary by 13% and then continued to lose the primary because he couldn’t win over black voters. Ignore them at your own peril, but if you’re getting trounced w/ black voters and not dominating the white vote, you are going to lose. Period. End of sentence. Heck, VA has more delegates than Wisconsin and a larger AA electorate. It is quite possible for Biden to trounce Bernie/Warren among black voters (39%) and split white voters and come away with a lion share of it’s delegates.

        As for trends, once again, we’re talking about trends among white voters in IA/NH. Nothing has changed among black voters. This is what happens when you start the primary season centered around pleasing white voters in two lily white states. You get blinded to the whims and concerns of voters of color who aren’t splintering as much as white voters.

        That’s going to be the story of this primary. Warren/Bernie/Biden are going to split moderate/progressive white voters while Biden cleans house w/ conservative white and every spectrum of black voters.

        So yes, unless White voters start voting monolithically or Warren/Bernie causes black voters to spread out among the candidates, it’s going to hinge on black votes.

        Is Biden my first choice? Heck no. He’s not even in my top 5. However, no one started making the appeals to AA voters before they started running for president and he’s remaining competitive with white voters. Absent a medical emergency or drastic shifts in voting preferences, he’s going to take it. And as much as we put ourselves into camps, most people polled have him as a second or third choice which is not a good sign for anyone else when everyone below Buttigeig/Harris start dropping out.

      • Lilith says:

        The Wisconsin point is utter hogwash, as pertaining to the primaries. Iowa, New Hampshire for momentum, and down the road California and South Carolina are crucial for the nomination.

      • Kitten says:

        Lilith, I’m so sorry that I can’t match your stellar interpersonal skills, as evidenced by every rude reply to me, including the first one.

        @ CK- Fair enough and I guess we’ll find out. You said it yourself: the primary season is way too long. It’s unwise to assume at this stage that we definitively know who will be the Dem nominee–there is still plenty of time for Biden to continue to alienate black supporters. And I think it behooves us to remember that there are a LOT of young, progressive black voters that like Warren and Sanders and I think it’s a mistake to ignore that constituency. In the end, national polls don’t mean much because the winner will be decided on a state-by-state basis.

      • Annie says:

        Kitten, I notice that you are no less rude in this exchange. Sorry, but it’s true.
        As an aside and because I come from a parliamentary experience, I’m worried about circle jerk politics I witness at least on this venue. You Americans must free the world of Trump.

      • CK says:

        @Kitten I’m not ignoring them. They’re mostly the reason why Bernie pulled even 25-30% with black voters last primary and they too have been trending Biden this season. Young progressive black voters may share policy concerns with progressive white voters, but their motivations and rationalization behind voting isn’t the same. Beating a white supremacist takes on a whole new level of urgency when you are black and in his cross hairs even if that means having strange bedfellows. Not to mention the fact that Sanders and Warren have individually burned some bridges with the group in various different ways. It’s not hard to find a black Warren supporter that despises Bernie and vice versa.

        We have months before the first votes though so we’ll see what happens.

      • Kitten says:

        @ Annie-Yup. If you can’t grant me basic politeness and respect, I’ll return the favor.

        @CK- I completely understand the urgency that POC are feeling. We’re all terrified but for the most marginalized among us, it’s truly life-or-death.
        But we were facing this same prospect in 2016 yet black voter turnout dropped markedly compared to the previous two elections. Black folks didn’t turn out for Clinton as much as her campaign anticipated, mainly because she didn’t run a campaign as inpirational or hopeful* as Obama did. And yes, I know that Obama was historic in getting out the black vote but I worry that a candidate like Biden won’t energize independents and won’t inpire folks to get to the polls. Additionally, he will not move the needle on downballot tickets and I worry about local and state races almost as much as I worry about the presidency.

        I get what you’re saying about black Sanders and Warren supporters cancelling each other out and I guess I hadn’t really thought of that. Yet, Sanders himself has stayed pretty steady in second place in national polls. I just wonder if he will gain more ground as Biden continues to slowly shave off percentage points.

        * Personally, I was happy to vote for the first female presidential candidate, even as a Bernie primary voter.

      • Annie says:

        Kitten, to be precise, I thought it was you who were flippant first. I can understand heated political exchanges and we can all take a deep breath from time to time.

      • Kitten says:

        “And if you actually did some work, instead of kibitzing from the margins, you’d be enlightened fast on what large portions of the electorate want” is rude to me, Annie.

        Accusing me of just sitting around and bitching and telling me that I have zero understanding of the Dem voting block is condescending, patronizing and yes, RUDE.

        You are, of course, free to disagree.

      • Annie says:

        As a matter of fact I disagree. Perhaps it’s a cultural aspect of appreciating blunt talk. What you did in turn was to be dismissive and telling people that you don’t give a crap about what they want or they you are bored shitless on what they think. Anyway, this being a dead end there’s still the issue, what is your strategic political goal for the future and what are the tactics you plan to use to achieve it.

      • Detriotgirl says:

        @kitten I am regular lurked here and occasional commenter, and I think you are generally well intentioned. But, I also agree with Annie that you were quite rude here as well. I don’t think we’ll win many people over to leftist causes if these are the kinds of discussions we’re having. Just my two cents.

      • Keaton says:

        Perfectly stated @ck Your analysis is spot on.
        RE: Black folks voting at lower rates in 2016
        I think it’s always important to factor in voter suppression. That played a huge role in lower black voter turnout. (Also it doesn’t make sense to believe Sanders, who got his ass handed to him by Clinton in 2016 by black voters, would’ve done better turning out that particular group of voters.)
        Bottom line: The core of the Democratic party are black voters and a large proportion of them self-identify as moderate or centrist. They are the ones keeping Biden in first in all these polls. It’s not some mass of white corporatist neoliberal shill “yucky Resistance moms”.

        Personally I am rooting for Warren. I think we desperately need big structural change. I’m hoping she can reach people who self-identify as moderate/centrist but are open to progressive policies when they aren’t labeled as such. But if she doesn’t start making inroads with black voters she’s toast. (It’s just like how you can’t win the Republican nomination without conservative Christians). I just wish she had built those ties before running for President. :/

        One last somewhat hopeful thought to anyone discouraged about Biden’s dominance in the polls so far:
        Alot of folks aren’t really paying attention yet. In fact I bet alot of voters won’t start to tune in until right before the Iowa caucuses. There is time! Anyone that supports Warren, Sanders, Harris, Buttigieg or Beto should not lose hope. (I mention those particular candidates because they all have war chests to keep their campaigns going).

      • Bassey says:

        When Trump wanted to raise the defense budget by 54 billion dollars Warren voted in support of raising it by 80 billion. Would a real progressive do that?

        https://youtu.be/aBPb79O_jRk

    • Lillian says:

      Kitten’s first statement here was perfect, especially the last sentence. Thank you.

    • BeanieBean says:

      He’s almost as incoherent as trump.

    • S says:

      For sure. We already have an old, incoherent, white guy who denies objective reality, and that’s not working out so well. Just because this one isn’t as bad, doesn’t make Biden a good choice.

      I continue to believe (hope?) that as soon as he’s not the frontrunner, large numbers of folks who support him based on his perceived “electability” will fall away.

      I see very few, if any, people “excited” by the idea of a Biden presidency. Mostly, I see people scared that all the racists and misogynists, and racist misogynists, won’t vote for a women or person of color, so they glom on to Uncle Joe.

      I think that’s the exact opposite approach Dems need to take to win. Instead of focusing on coddling racists, they need a candidate who will excite the electorate, like Obama did, and increase turn out. I don’t think anyone goes out of their way to turn out for Uncle Joe. In fact, I fear he’d depress turnout, and thus help re-elect our orange nightmare.

  4. Myrtle says:

    Agreed. Biden is this close to incoherent; completely out of touch. It’s infuriating to witness his campaign being propped up by the media and the DNC. #BidenStepDown

  5. Esmom says:

    Biden wasn’t folksy at all last night. He seemed nervous, defensive and a little desperate. I had been hoping against hope he wouldn’t run…I wonder what it would take for him to drop out?

    I didn’t watch the earlier debates but I did watch this one. Some really cringe-y moments and some good ones. I was most impressed with Elizabeth Warren’s depth, Kamala’s blend of toughness and compassion, Mayor Pete’s chill and Beto’s conviction. They seemed most comfortable to me. Bernie was solid, too. The others seemed to be trying harder to get their sound bites in.

    I’m ok with pretty much anyone but Biden, tbh.

    • Kitten says:

      I’m also #AnybodyButBiden but I’m still ride-or-die for Liz. She’s been really solid in every debate even when she hasn’t walked away with that coveted “Viral Moment”. She rarely falters and seems to have an answer for everything. Her vision for America is clear, concise, and inspired and that’s the America I want to live in.

      Some thoughts on the other candidates: I love that a gay man is being represented in the highest level of politics but I find Pete so boring. Every time he talks I find myself tuning out. I like Beto more because he seems more off-the-cuff and…for lack of a better word, REAL to me. He’s really taken to tackling the issue of gun violence since the shooting in El Paso and I have so much respect for how unwavering he’s been. Harris is always solid in the debates and it feels like she’s really in her element when she’s up there: calm, composed, untouchable. Bernie has been really consistent in his views and I actually don’t mind his shouting–I read it as passion, even though a woman would NEVER be able to get away with that lol. Yang is likable and smart but I don’t think he’s the right choice. I want a civil servant, not another businessman. Amy’s jokes are always so cringe but I appreciate that she always takes the high road even when they attempt to bait her with questions that target the other candidates.

      The worst candidate is Biden. He is just REALLY bad at this and honestly, his ramblings remind me of Trump. I cannot believe he’s still holding onto the lead. Sigh.

      • lucy2 says:

        I really want Warren too. I hope all this Biden stuff is just a lot of media nonsense, and when it comes down to actual voting, people smarten up, but I doubt it.
        Of course, I’ll vote for whoever it is, but please don’t make me have to vote for Biden.

        That rambling up there sounds like Trump. That’s scary.

      • Kitten says:

        I hope so too, Lucy, but I’m mentally preparing myself for a Biden nomination. Sigh. Depressing.

      • Lady D says:

        Da fuq was that speech? He rambled, he switched subjects halfway through every sentence, he never completed one of them, and he never actually answered anything that was asked. This is my first experience with Biden, I’ve usually relied on recaps here to keep me informed about him, and that speech was quite the shock to me. I had thought him somewhat intelligent and informed and it turns out he is as out to lunch as Trump is. He just isn’t mean about it. Based on just what I read above, I don’t blame you in the least for not wanting him as president.

      • Anne Call says:

        My concern is that Bernie and Warren will split their voters for the entire primary season and Biden will get this thing in the same way trump did-never winning a majority but just getting a plurality. I think that Warren is the one with momentum plus being 10 years younger and a women. However, I just can’t see Bernie ever dropping out. And every staff member that works for these candidates has a vested interest in keeping the candidate in the race-so their paychecks keep coming. The system really has become insane and goes on for far too long.

      • S says:

        @Anne, that is the nightmare scenario for me, and it’s all too plausible. I mean, I’m gonna vote for whomever the nominee is, including Biden, but, damn, I really don’t want to.

        And I’m not that excited about Bernie either, even though I voted for him in the primary in ’16. He’s too old, most of his policies are now being done better by others in the field, and there’s more than a little about the ego of the way he campaigns that gives me pause about what kind of a president he’d make, no matter how much I agree with most of what he says. I also think he’s got more than a touch of the crazy old man thing himself, and too many people will be put off by the scare-word “socialist.”

    • Kitten says:

      Forgot to add that Castro was right about Biden, but he will pay a price for that interaction because I think Dems as a whole really don’t want to see the candidates attacking each other. But I’m not a Dem, so I fully supported Castro’s performance and I respect that he went there TBH.

      • Becks1 says:

        @kitten – I was confused about that too. Biden’s thing about his healthcare plan seemed off – he definitely changed some key words between different sentences – but Castro is definitely getting slammed for that. And its becoming a thing bc the reporters are making it a thing. Let’s focus on the real meat of the debate, which in my mind was that Biden doesn’t seem able to lead the country, and neither does Bernie, and why does he keep shouting (I hate the shouting so much lol.)

        I am liking Beto more in the debates. I think Warren comes across really well, even when they try to bait her. She doesn’t have huge shining moments like you said, but I think she seems like the adult in the room. And honestly, I think people want that after Trump.

      • Kitten says:

        Hahaha I think the criticism of Bernie’s shouting is fair game. As I said, if he were a woman he could never get away with it.

        And I seriously cannot agree with your first paragraph more. Mainstream media is so obsessed with propping up Biden that they’re ignoring the fact that his healthcare answer was a mess and he has no clear vision of where he wants to lead the country.

      • Hoot says:

        Most elderly people I am in contact with (and I know a LOT of ‘em) raise their voice, or shout, because they have a hearing issue and won’t/don’t wear hearing aides. Bernie will be turning 79 next September, so he would be an octogenarian for most of his presidency if he was voted in and that is a big No for me. Health issues have a way of arising at that age. I really like Warren and her eloquence. I heard Biden speak at a Harvard commencement two years ago. When his speech is prepared, he’s ok, but off-the-cuff he’s a disaster. He loses mental clarity when he’s excited. I wish Harris would get a voice coach to fix her tendency to sound whiny. A stronger voice would support her strong platform. Castro spoke spontaneously and let his emotions go off by snarking Biden (even if truth), and hurt his own efforts.

      • Kitten says:

        Yeah exactly. Biden is decent when he’s rehearsed or reading from a script but he’s always been pretty bad when he’s off-the-cuff and the debates just highlight that. I’ve heard that he is really resistent to campaign advice so I do wonder if his staff just can’t get him to focus on preparation.

        See, I think Kamala has really good delivery. I do think her voice can have a nasally quality at times but it kind of works for her? She always sounds really strong and unflappable to me.

  6. smee says:

    If the DNC nominates him, we’re doomed.

    • Kitten says:

      Yep. It will be a disaster.

    • tmbg says:

      The 2020 election is going to be like The Hindenburg disaster all over again.

    • Diana says:

      Agree. And I liked Biden initially until the debates. His time has passed… he’s fumbling and bumbling and can’t find his words just like trump. He’s declining and we can all see it plain as day. He will not be able to look strong or sharp enough in the general. All the democrats will need to endure Russian meddling, gerrymandering and basic republican cheating but putting a declining man in as our best person to beat trump – who I believe is evil incarnate— is just dumb af!!

    • Pamspam says:

      I totally agree with those saying Kamala would eviscerate Trump in a debate, but I’d be curious to know if there’s a rule that the incumbent president has to debate because if not, I don’t think he will. He has nothing to gain by it. I suspect if it’s not required, he will just continue holding his white supremacy rallies to fire up his base.

      • Tiffany :) says:

        I agree that Trump will most likely skip debates. He lazy and fearful.

        That being said, I don’t think a great debate performance matters that much, sadly. Clinton wiped the floor with him each time, and it didn’t matter. Ultimately, I think it is going to be Trump die-hard supporters on one side, and everyone else on the other.

  7. Renee says:

    I like Kamala but was disappointed in her performance last night. It was ok but not great.

    • Kitten says:

      Really? I only watched the first two hours but I thought she did pretty well. My BF doesn’t like her because he doesn’t trust her but even he admits that she’s always engaging on the debate stage.

      • Original T.C. says:

        I agree with your BF, Kamala doesn’t have firm policies. She’s all about pleasing whomever happens to be her audience of the moment. What she is good at is verbal volley. Kamala, Bernie, Major Pete and Yang are good with the verbal smack downs and can take on Trump in a debate (Trump’s style of no-policy, name calling debate. I’m rooting for Liz but I honestly think Trump will run circles around her. She’s took conventional. Trump is an oily used car sales man, he’s not going to have a civilized debate with her nor a clean race of ideas.

      • Renee says:

        I agree she did well, but I guess I just wanted her to stand out more and really engage me. I felt like the first debate was her best.

        I loved Warren’s opening statement. I feel like she cleaned the floor with Biden but somehow he keeps getting the attention and the polls somehow continue to support him. He often seems baffled and clueless. As you and others have said, its the white male privlege I guess.

        I really wish Klobuchar would hang it up.

      • Kitten says:

        Klobuchar needs to drop out. She raised her profile. She is relatively well-liked but she’s not gonna get the nom at this stage.

      • Tiffany :) says:

        I think Kamala doesn’t have firm policies because of pragmatism. She isn’t interested in idealizing solutions, she wants to put in place policies that will address issues as they are. She isn’t ideological as she is pragmatic, which isn’t as endearing in these kinds of campaigns. I respect her a lot and I think she’d get a lot done, but I don’t think she’s going to be the candidate.

    • Grant says:

      I think Kamala’s opening remarks were excellent, the best out of any of her rivals last night.

    • nuks says:

      You know, my bf doesn’t like Kamala on an instinctual level. He’s liberal and desperate to get rid of Trump and everything, but he has a very negative response to Kamala and I’m hearing this from other men. He likes Warren and tough women and everything, but there’s something about Kamala that I’m curious about with male voters. He’s white, coastal and 50, if that matters.

      • Kitten says:

        For my BF it’s the DA background. He absolutely hates cops. I think there are interesting arguments that have been made about what’s required of a black woman working within a pretty awful system but….yeah.

      • Anne Call says:

        Lots of hatred for Kamala on twitter. It’s pretty depressing. I personally think that trump’s people are probably really worried about her. He’s never hit back at her on twitter or given her some childish insulting nickname. Lots of speculation that the twitter hatred is being generated by Russian bots.

      • DaisySharp says:

        I agree with you Anne.

        As for what people’s bf’s think, I always felt one of the biggest reasons I never married is because I honest to god never for one moment cared what any bf of mine thought about politics, even my long time fiance who may have been my soul mate , if such a thing exists. Nor, did I ever for one moment allow them to be burdened by the impression that I cared. However, I am not part of the Khive. I can be 100% with and excited over, Kamala, Cory, or Beto. And maybe Beto/Harris would be the way to go. I don’t know. But you can bet I won’t be asking my bf. He will actually be here all weekend. Or, part of the weekend if he starts yapping about his political “thoughts”.

      • Tiffany :) says:

        Someone on Celebitchy earlier this week said that Kamala was just as bad as a republican because she put POC in prison. I think there is a lot of bad will towards her because of her role as DA. I think in the general that would be a strength, but in primaries, it is a flaw.

      • Anne Call says:

        Daisy sharp, that is so right on. I have a progressive wonderful husband and two very liberal grown up sons, but when I proclaim about the importance of electing a women president I always get a slightly glazed expression from them all. I make my own political decisions based on my life as a girl, a teenager and a women, all experiences they have no clue about. Kamala was AG for a state with 40 million people. Her opponents cherry pick trials and arrests and then use them to proclaim what a terrible person she is. Bernie voted with the NRA and gun manufacturers in 2005, but it’s never used against him by his progressive base. In the end, all the candidates will have strengths and weaknesses- I just want trump defeated and we take our country back.

  8. minx says:

    Meh, any of them would be better than you know who.

    • Christin says:

      I second this.

    • Anne Call says:

      Yeah, he would have smart competent people running things and in his cabinet and he would definitely pick a much younger (probably female) VP. I’ll vote for him or any of them (maybe not Gabbard). Not my pick though.

  9. tw says:

    I used to really like Biden. I think he’s not as sharp as he used to be and there are a lot of people around him who pushed him to do this. I hate watching him like this. Step down, please.

    • Another Anne says:

      Agree. I think he would have been fine 4 years ago, but he has aged a lot since then. If he does end up as the candidate, he needs to have a strong VP with him. Because everyone knows there’s a good chance the VP will need to be moved to starter at some point in the game.

  10. guest89 says:

    Okay, what happened to Joe? I feel like I’m listening to Trump only I agree with him (if that makes sense). The rambling, the stuttering, the inability to stay on topic, and then some racism/classism for spite and it’s freaking me out.

  11. Skipper says:

    It certainly appears that Biden is going to be the Democrat nominee for President in 2020. He is way out front of the other candidates. Depressing as hell. I suppose IF he gets elected and Trump is actually forced to leave to WH, Biden is better than Trump. I just want someone very good for our next Prez. Not another old white man. I want a smart woman.

  12. Chef Grace says:

    He is the front runner because of his bland and clueless ways. And this is how we will get 4 more years of the orange brain dead fool.
    We need a miracle or an asteroid.

  13. I know they are not perfect and am waiting to decide on who I pick myself but heck, even though not really as enthused as I would hope at this point, wiill vote for anyone of them, and will in the end. If we have to endure another Trump win and a Trump/Kushner dynasty, I honestly don’t think our country could ever survive or recover from it.

  14. lauren says:

    He needs fix-a-dent!

  15. Esmom says:

    I’m starting to think it’s the right that’s pushing the narrative that he’s the front runner — and then it’s become a self-fulfilling prophecy because people hear it so much). It’s definitely to their advantage. Trump rants constantly about fake news that’s not real…and it’s the real fake news that’s going to kill us.

  16. Ann says:

    If Biden wasn’t Biden his performance last night would have signaled the end of a campaign nobody really wants. It is so frustrating. Warren was fantastic and has been consistently outstanding this whole time but we can’t focus on that because Biden/DNC/media as a whole are sticking with a dumb old white guy as a sure thing.

  17. margedebarge says:

    That was trump-level incoherence, just coming from a less repugnant angle. I really hope he doesn’t get the nom.

  18. Laura says:

    Joe Biden is a creep. Do yourself a favor and do a quick google search. He should not be running. Period.

  19. Mumzy says:

    There needs to be an age LIMIT for presidential candidates. There *is* an age MINIMUM and there needs to be an age limit. Our next Inauguration Day will be in 2021. That year Bernie Sanders will be 80, and Joe Biden will be 79.

    Protections are in place to prevent having a president that’s too young and inexperienced, but given life expectancy rates now, there needs to be an age maximum as well. My vote is that the maximum (especially for first term candidates) be well short of octogenarian.

    • prettypersuasion says:

      AGREED. how about retirement age? the oldsters don’t really have a stake in the future anyway. they’ll be dead. it’s just the crowning achievement for the resume to them.

  20. stepup says:

    Even worse, networks like CNN and MSNBC framed Biden as the WINNER of that debate!!! Blathering on about how wonderfully he did. WHAT!? How could anyone have watched that and thought: Yeah, Joe Biden did Grrrrrrrrrrreat!

    Get all the way outta here with that nonsense.

  21. Cate says:

    First, the whole comment is incoherent and I definitely worry that Biden’s folksy “slip ups” are now just out and out early dementia (or just being not as sharp with age, even if it’s not full on dementia). I know the narrative is that he’s the only candidate who resonates with the white working class and we need to get those votes from Trump…but if Biden is bumbling around like this, I don’t think his “resonance” is going to really pull those voters. I think we’d do better to get some candidates who can excite and pull in new voters. Younger voters *did* register to vote and vote at much higher rates than usual in the last election, and I think most of the Dem candidates would do a much better job of building on that than Biden will. Hell, I am 37, I VOTED for Biden in the primaries in 2008, I thought he was a great VP, but I have no interest in voting for him now. None. His politics have not evolved with the times, if anything they seem to have regressed.

    Next. This statement of his about needing to turn on the TV/record player/radio/whatever so that kids will hear more words? This is complete BS. Is this really what his teacher wife is telling him kids need to learn? There is all sorts of research coming out that talking toys, radio, TV, etc. are NOT particularly effective in exposing kids to new words and helping them to learn. The idea that someone could be up there saying that THIS is what we need to help struggling parents to be doing more of…WTF? iWhat *is* effective is having actual people talking to them and reading to them. Focusing on getting more high quality public preschool is great, for sure. Definitely do that. But in terms of how to help parents be better parents–give them more social safety nets so they actually have the time and energy to do the “right” things. Definitely don’t tell them it’s important to expose their kid to more words via the _____ (insert electronic device of choice).

  22. Rapunzel says:

    I’m impressed Biden could even talk with how tightly his face has been pulled. Man has he had a lot of work done! Yes, I know it’s low to judge looks, but hey, HRC’s pantsuits were always a thing so…if it’s good for the goose…

    • Kitten says:

      He’s definitely had a mini facelift, veneers, botox.

      • Anne Call says:

        Warren either has the best skin I’ve ever seen in a fairskinned 70 year old or a really good surgeon/dermatologist. If the latter, I would love to get their number!

  23. dota says:

    Joe is my kind of guy apparently… but I still would vote for Ted Cruz over him any day.

  24. pantanlones en fuego says:

    IDGAF!! He can be diagnosed with Alzheimer’s and I’ll vote for him. I’m not even watching the debates because I am literally voting for whoever gets the nomination just to get this orange buffoon out of office.

    • Kitten says:

      Then be prepared for Don Trump, Jr in 2024.
      Because Trumpism isn’t going away and Biden is the LAST candidate that could actually cure it.

      • pantanlones en fuego says:

        So, are you saying that you would vote for Trump in 2020 or not vote (which will in effect help re-elect him) rather than vote for someone who is not your first choice? Biden is FAR from being my first choice (Harris 2020) but I”m prepared to vote for anybody at this point just to get 45 out. And I don’t think that Trumpism is going anywhere regardless of who wins so I would be less than shocked to see Donnie Jr. run in 2024.

      • Kitten says:

        I don’t know how I’m going to vote if Biden is the nominee. To be clear, I live in a deep blue state so I have a bit of a luxury in that Mass will go to the Dem nominee no matter what. I might write in Elizabeth Warren or I might vote for Biden but *only* as a protest vote against Trump.

        Well yeah it’s possible that you’re right and we’d get another Trump no matter what but I think it’s far less likely if we have someone who can make MEANINGFUL, LASTING change.

      • Anne Call says:

        Biden would be surrounded by some of the same people that Warren would bring in as president. I live in California but I’m definitely voting for the democratic nominee.

      • Ams says:

        I couldn’t reply to you on my comment about common policies in other countries being considered too liberal here, but I completely agree. That’s why when you poll them on their own, without a party or name attached to them, those policies poll VERY well. 90% of the country is in favor of universal background checks for guns, 70% of th country is AGAINST cutting medicare and social security spending, so why is it seen as radical left to do those things? If thats where a majority of the country falls, then I hate to break it to everyone, the majority of the country is liberal. Not centrist

      • DaisySharp says:

        Um, nobody thinks or says that universal background checks on guns, or NOT cutting SS and Medicare is the “radical left”. Uh uh. Very misleading. And btw Hillary was for background checks (and more!) and very against cutting SS and Medicare but i just saw you bashing her as centrist. So you are doing a bit of switcheroo. Radical leftism is doing away with private insurance. But even bernie backtracked on that now the unions told him that’s not happening. You know what Bernie said? Yes sir, sir! is what bernie said. :) So that’s off the table now, not a moment too soon.

  25. Green Desert says:

    Ok…did you guys notice that toward the end of the debate, when Biden was asked the question about race and schools that he started by laughing? WTF?! He then gave the most meandering, word-salad-y answer he gave all night that included the implication that people of color need social services-type help at home to raise their kids. I think this was when he mentioned record players. I’m so frustrated that his casual, folksy racism consistently gets a pass in the media. This is our frontrunner? Please. As some of you have said, Biden can’t ride the coattails of Barack Obama enough. People need to forget the Biden of 10 years ago and look at the Biden of 2019…he has no business running.

    I hope Elizabeth Warren is our next president, but I think we have a handful of great candidates that far surpass Joe. He needs to be sitting on a porch somewhere yelling at kids to get off his lawn.

    • Cate says:

      Yeah, I used to really like Biden but lately I cannot take the way he seems so dismissive of racism/sexism, like they aren’t serious issues. Sometimes it seems to me like he’s actually regressing on these things, but I don’t know if that’s what’s happening, or if he’s always been this way and it’s more obvious now because other people with more progressive views are now on the scene.

  26. DP says:

    I absolutely adore Mayor Pete! He gives me hope for our future!
    Beto did a great job last night and I’m thankful that he is fighting for common sense gun legislation, but I don’t think he’s as smart or well-rounded as Pete.

    • stepup says:

      I (politely) disagree about Mayor Pete. To me, he’s the same-old, same-old, centrist Democrat who talks a good game, has the right resume, but ultimately never delivers. He’s smart. He’s articulate. But in some ways he represents the past, not the future, of the party. I’m fine with the guy, but don’t think he’s the right choice.

      That said, since he is a Big Christian, I would give my (imaginary) castle to see him debate Mike Pence in the Vice Presidential debate. Mayor Pete would CRUSH Pence, and it would be a beautiful thing.

      • Anne Call says:

        He needs to run for senator or governor of Indiana. That’s where we need candidates like him. This run has raised his profile and hopefully he can run for one of those offices now and be successful.

  27. Jess says:

    Is anyone surprised? I mean this is still the DNC that propped up Clinton over Sanders in 2016 when he arguably was a stronger candidate than Clinton. This is the same bullshit that pushed Sanders’ supporters not want to vote for Clinton in 2016. This shit isn’t a coincidence.

    • Ruyana says:

      Yes, Biden is the chosen candidate of the DNC and the media. Once again they are not allowing the people to chose.

    • pantanlones en fuego says:

      The DNC did the same thing with Obama and Clinton in 2008. I think that the only reason Clinton was the chosen candidate in 2016 (prior to it being official at the convention) was because of how she got shafted in 2008. Also, Sanders is an Independent don’t forget. The DNC shouldn’t be backing him anyway since he’s not affiliated.

      • Jess says:

        But look at what we got for dumb bipartisanship loyalty bs. We got Trump. Sanders was ahead of her on so MANY polls. The progressive candidates you’re seeing now is because Sanders forced the entire democratic party to to the left. A lot of the Democratic candidates are nothing but candidates who uses Sanders’ politics as a blueprint. The face or the DNC is not Biden, Clinton, or Kamala. Its Sanders and Warren. Even if Sanders was an independent, that shouldn’t negate the problem that bipartisanship forces politics to ignore many voters which played a large part in getting Trump elected to begin with.

      • pantanlones en fuego says:

        Bi-partisanship is really only part of the reason that we have Trump in office. It’s really a lot more complicated than just having a 2 party system. The fact is that the majority of voters (and not just people who are registered to vote but people who consistently vote in elections, typically referred to as “super voters”) tend to fall more in the center on both the left and on the right. This is why there is concern about candidates like Sanders and Warren; they’re highly appealing to millennials but for the majority of the voting public they lean too far left. I for one am prepared to vote for whoever gets the nomination even if it is Sanders (who I really don’t like) but I’m not confident that the rest of the country feels the dame way.

      • Kitten says:

        I agree with you, Jess.

    • Ams says:

      IT’s just not true that most people fall to the center. Maybe in theory when you ask about party loyalty and whatnot. But poll after poll has shown that Sanders’s and Warren’s policies are extremely popular when polled on their own. Even AOC’s ideas poll extremely well as long as you don’t put her name on them. over 60% of the country wants medicare for all, thats a very liberal/progressive policy.

      • Kitten says:

        It’s so telling about our current political climate that healthcare for all, a wealth tax, and free college–things that are pretty standard in most western countries–are seen as “too far left”.
        But this is what happens when you have moderate Dems as the nominee year after year: the right pulls us further to the right and they continue to get more extreme.

  28. JennyJenny says:

    We are in sooo much trouble…..

    Another 4 years of the craziness we have now is unfathomable.

  29. Mego says:

    I didn’t know that .Michael Myers was running for President 🧐 #reallybadfacelift

  30. Mabs A'Mabbin says:

    Thanks celebitchy, I’m glad I didn’t watch those quasi half-baked shamefully embarrassing answers last night or I’d be tossing remnants of my telly in the garbage this morning.

  31. Claire says:

    …and just watch, Biden will get the nomination. *eyeroll*

  32. CK says:

    I wanted a female (not named Tulsi) or a male PoC, but I’m just not convinced that any of the candidates can beat Biden, which does not inspire confidence in your campaign decisions. It just felt like every candidate from the jump was racing to the left of Bernie/Warren for white liberals in Iowa/NH when they should have been aligning themselves w/ Clinton and Obama for moderate black voters nationwide. Biden may lose IA and NH, but it won’t be in a landslide which should be a signal to folks and it won’t be to the same person. Then everyone will get drubbed in states w/ black voters and more working class, non- college, white voters, which is most of the states. Heck, I doubt that either Warren or Sanders will get out soon enough to keep them from splitting the vote and avoiding the 15% threshold to get any delegates.

    We’ll see how the polling/primary plays out, but I’m not sure that any candidates are making head room with the voters that they need to actually be competitive outside of Iowa/NH. Warren is on the rise, but that seems more college white voters leaving lesser candidates and nestling with her than Biden losing steam among the voters propping him up.

    What can I say though. The 100 people running for president knew the makeup of the Democratic electorate and about 97 of them ran a campaign for the twitter electorate while lambasting the 3 that actually did. Sanders lost the black vote in a landslide even in states that he won. That should have been a clue.

    • DaisySharp says:

      What did you think of Beto? Because he wasn’t even on my radar until the past month, and I am very high on him now. I was all in for Kamala, and I still love her, but she went off the side of the cliff chasing after bernie and liz with that medicare for all and no private insurance. Very bad. and then she gave confusing answers. What I find so funny is even bernie himself had to back off of that, as soon as the unions got him on the horn and said, oh no you won’t. They aren’t giving up their cadillac insurance plans, and why should they? They gave up pay over the years for those plans, in negotiations. So your point about following these twitter white liberals is so well taken. The fact is polls show doing away with private insurance is a non starter for americans. An optional buy in for medicare (actually it should be medicaid), is the way to go.

      • CK says:

        I like Beto, but if I’m being honest, I don’t really like to get too accustomed to any candidate because I like the “campaign” aspect of the race and many people have been running terrible campaigns. Maybe I’ll go all in for someone before my primary in 2020, but there have been a lot of fundamental misreads in relation to where the candidates are and where the voters are and that has shown in many campaigns. Smart campaigns like Kamala’s and Beto’s reboot and come at it another way. Others blame their press coverage and continue to lose. Few candidates have managed to square the fact that M4A polls well when people don’t think they’re being taxed and believe that they can keep their insurance.

        Not to mention, for as much as people complain about Biden, few candidates have attempted to go head on with him and diminish his support. If Biden’s holding up the ACA and you’re bashing him for not buying into at M4A plan, you’re wasting your time because his voters have accepted that (and the ACA is incredibly popular). Kamala and Booker made a play for part of his base by litigating his history on race and no one backed them up. Gillibrand did it with gender, and surprise, crickets.

        That was a bit of a tangent, but yeah, I have a Top 5 that I’ve separated from how they’re running their campaigns because few have shown a willingness to do what it takes to break through.

        I think Biden is a weak frontrunner, but I also think people discount his 2nd place support and the fact that certain candidates have near endless wells of cash to pull from that well keep them in the race long after it’s clear that they won’t win. The amount of mud that I’ve seen slung at the moderates just guarantees in my opinion that they’re going to get out and boost Biden’s lead sooner than Bernie/Warren inevitably realize that only one of them can wave that flag. That’s ignoring the fact that most polled Sander’s supporters have Biden as they’re second choice and that number may rise as the partially dormant Sanders-Warren war heats up.

      • DaisySharp says:

        Interesting thoughts CK. There’s a lot I agree with here. But i don’t think all of the moderates will be gone. From what I understand Beto has a big war chest, and while I don’t consider him a moderate, most do because what he’s radical on (guns and racial justice) are not the two issues the lefty twitterati consider important. And yet, they are two issues I am passionate about, with climate change rounding up. Far left economic schemes not big on my list by any means. Tho I’ll still vote for it over trump. But we’ll see. I’d hate to see either Kamala or Cory drop out as well.

  33. ChillyWilly says:

    His idea of reparations for slavery is to give black kids the education they are already entitled to as American Citizens?? Is that really what he Was trying to say in his old man, record player, rabbit ear antenna-tv way? Lord help us.

  34. Ams says:

    I really do not understand your hate for Bernie but love for Warren. They have the exact same voting record, and are very likeminded on so many policies. Meanwhile Kamala keeps talking out both sides of her mouth about healthcare and doesn’t have nearly as progressive of a record (assuming you like Warren for her progressive policies). So what, he yells? He’s got a great consistent record. I’d be more than happy with him or Warren for the nominee. It feels like everyone is still blaming him for Clinton’s loss when Clinton was a flawed candidate and he still threw his full weight behind her when she secured the nomination. Even doing several campaign events for HER. She lost bc she wasn’t smart about where she campaigned and her policies were not exciting or terribly popular.

  35. Dara says:

    It will be painful to vote for Biden or Sanders, but I will do it. I saw a bumper sticker that said “Any functional adult 2020” and that’s where I am. But as much as I hope for a Democrat to win the White House, none of this will matter if the Republicans keep their majority in the Senate and Mitch McConnell stays where he is. That’s my biggest fear and it just won’t go away.

  36. DaisySharp says:

    A lot of the comments above are a very nice example of why I am for closed primaries. In order to have a say in a political party, you need to be a member of said party. It’s not too much to ask. Membership has its privileges. The idea of someone who doesn’t care what democratic base voters want, affecting who the dem nominee is is outrageous to me. But, sadly, MA is a state where unaffiliated voters can vote in our primary. We need to do away with that, and with the undemocratic caucuses which left independents also love. People who work multiple jobs, can’t get paid time off, or can’t stand on their feet for hours, don’t like their candidates so they want to keep them from voting in the primaries.

  37. Laura says:

    I second your Biden opinion. The man is not up to the task, and if truly concerned about our country, he should step down. He is frail in body and mind. He gets major props for being a supportive V.P. for Obama, but running for president is another matter entirely.

  38. Bassey says:

    Biden also called Bernie the President during the debate.

  39. Liz says:

    Too old. He’s over the age where he can handle this position.

  40. Caty Page says:

    Once the primaries are over, I will crow from the rooftops in support of whoever has the nomination.

    Until then, I understand Kitten’s frustration. “Electability” is a racist, sexist talking point. It is based on the notion that people outside of big cities are ignorant and will only vote for centrist, white men. We might be able to point to current poles, but let’s look at the last 2 individuals to actually win the presidency.

    Early primary rhetoric was that Obama “wasn’t electable.” A Black man, with a very Black name, who wrote a book that included drug use, suggesting sweeping policy changes? I remember white Dem friends literally laughing in my face. “What a long shot!” K.

    Now we have a man who COULD NOT BE FURTHER FROM “ELECTABLE.” I can’t even make a list of why without fits of rage or crying, but the point proves itself.

    “Electability” suggests Americans only want white, centrist men. Trump showed America’s current thoughts on race. But Warren appeals to the same people as Bernie and even some Trumpers: she’s white, fiery but never intellectually condescending, and appears to have that “outsider” quality that has come to matter as people seek change.

    Don’t tell me I “don’t understand Am3RicA” just because I don’t think Biden is the answer. I understand perfectly fine, thank you.

    • stepup says:

      I think the only people saying that Biden is the answer are wealthy boomers who can’t see their own biases, and, as you suggest, are still on that “electability” trip. They’re only, like, 20% of the democratic base. Unfortunately, stations like MSNBC are pushing that narrative, and its frustrating.

      The way to win is to excite young progressive voters and voters of color (2008 playbook). Biden ain’t the ticket.

  41. so says:

    As a European citizen, it always baffles me to see so many elderly people in american politics (regardless of their party) : Trump, Biden, Pelosi… They seem often incoherent, disoriented, struggling to speak through their dentures… Sad.

  42. Patty says:

    I’m black. And I live in a conservative midwest state and none of the black people I know want Joe Biden to be President. They also don’t want MediC for all, free college for all, student loan debt relief, and they aren’t worried about reparations. They are worried about being able to support their families and finding affordable housing – top two hands down. I don’t know who’s doing the polling but there comes a point when sheep mentality comes into play; if you keep telling people that everyone like them is voting for candidate A it’s more likely that other people who weren’t going to vote for them will.

    Also, I will not fault someone for having principles and voting for the candidate who has values that match their own. One of the biggest problems in the American system right now is this constant holding your nose and voting for the lesser of two evils. People need to stop doing that. People need to demand better candidates and elect people who have values and integrity. Donald Trump got elected in large part because plenty of people who may have issues with him morally decided to plug their nose and vote for him because they consider him the lesser of two evils after the 25 year smear campaign against the Clintons.

  43. NODOGITF says:

    I just lurk! But imo if kitten doesn’t like what you say she is rude. But hey she had been running this website for 8 years so she can do as she pleases