The gaslighting from Prince William has been as obvious as it is disturbing. William is neither wise nor kind, which isn’t shocking given the years of stories about his tantrums and rages. It’s also not shocking because William has spent the better part of two years smearing his brother and his sister-in-law, and now, like so many narcissistic gaslighters, he wants to assume an air of wounded grievance, as if William has merely been supportive all along and Harry and Meghan are completely unhinged and off-base. Yes, William has issued a statement about Sussexit. It’s very curiously worded too.
Prince William hopes the Royals can one day reconcile, he said in his first public comments on the Megxit scandal.
“I’ve put my arm around my brother all our lives and I can’t do that anymore…I’m sad about that,” he told the Sunday Times. The Duke of Cambridge admitted his “sadness” about Prince Harry and Meghan Markle‘s decision to “step back” as senior members of the monarchy, according The Sunday Times of London. William, 37, seemed resigned to trying to buoy the rogue couple as the fallout from their desire to splinter from the family continued.
“All we can do, and all I can do, is try and support them and hope that the time comes when we’re all singing from the same page. I want everyone to play on the team,” he said.
It’s a sharp turn from early reports that the future king and his father, Prince Charles, were “incandescent with rage,” at Harry, who allegedly did not warn his family that the announcement was coming.
William, whose wife Kate Middleton has been noticeably quiet amidst the controversy, has been heavily involved in trying to appease Harry and Markle in the last few days. He will join his brother, father and grandmother, Queen Elizabeth II, in person at Sandringham Estate in Norfolk, England Monday to find common ground. Markle plans to call-in from Vancouver, Canada, where she and eight-month-old son Archie are staying.
A book could be written about those three sentences. Like, why can’t William put his arm around his brother? Harry is hurting. Harry has been hurting for a while. Harry has been hurting partially because of William’s actions and William’s shenanigans. And instead of showing a genuine concern and a genuine desire to stop the smears, Men’s Mental Health Campaigner William is merely writing off his brother as unreachable. “All we can do, and all I can do, is try and support them and hope that the time comes when we’re all singing from the same page. I want everyone to play on the team.” The team, in William’s mind, is Everybody Under The Bus For Future King William. And “when the time comes” is code for “when my wayward brother leaves Meghan and comes crawling back to me.”
ROYAL EXCLUSIVE: The Duke of Cambridge speaks of his “sadness” at the broken bond with Prince Harry and his sorrow that the royal family is no longer a “team”. Prince William: “I’ve put my arm around my brother all our lives and I can’t do that anymore…I’m sad about that.” pic.twitter.com/EfYytgrf0T
— Roya Nikkhah (@RoyaNikkhah) January 11, 2020
Photos courtesy of WENN, Avalon Red, Backgrid.
Was issuing this statement necessary.seems like he is just giving the negative more rope to climb
This is to counter act the passive aggressive narrative that was forming in the media that William was not being supportive and to distract from the accusations that the leak came from his PR team.
It’s a very sly and malevolent statement, actually:
*I would dearly love to be close to my beloved brother again [as if they ever were close!], but the evil mixed-race foreigner is standing between us and has ruined the brotherly relationship [that never was].*
Yup. Exactly how I read it as well.
Everything about this is malevolent. It was made clear last year the monarchy was being “pared down” and “streamlined” and it has been said by all sides that Harry’s role was slowly being made redundant. All Haz and Meg have done is taken control of their narrative. The fact that this is being played like Meg master minded the whole thing is disgusting. I’m finally starting to believe thr rumours that surrounded their wedding.
No, they were not being made redundant. It was always the plan that Harry and his spouse would be senior working royals. As ArtHistorian pointed out, the narrative only changed after that spouse turned out to be a bi-racial woman.
it’s not cool to make things up. he only said they weren’t getting along and that he wishes they were on the same page again. and he said ‘ I want to support THEM and hope EVERYBODY was on the same team’. also, many people’s siblings don’t like their spouses. it’s not a crime. my best friend doesn’t like her brother’s wife. so what? that’s life. he might be many things and I don’t even like him, but it’s nasty to imply he doesn’t love his brother. of course, I don’t know those people and all is possible, but I prefer not to make up a terrible story about him that makes him seem like a monster.
I am surprised no one has commented on W being in uniform and H in civil; when between the two, only one served……..I found that funny
With a brother like W, you really don’t need enemies!!!! same thing for Meghan and the Markle family
That really ticked me off too. Like, these papers aren’t even being subtle at this point.
Also, look at that headline, “Tom Bradby, Meghan’s nuclear option,”. Bradby clearly referenced the Sussexes in his statements and yet this gutter press — once again — makes it Meghan. Given what a sorry ass wimp Charles, William, Piers, and the rest of the froth-at-the mouthers seem to think Harry is, next it will be — are we really sure Harry was man enough to father a baby? I can see them going there. They’ve gone everywhere else!
That really bothered me too. William has never served like Harry has. He got special treatment in the military and still never managed to get enough hours to qualify to be a pilot. He remains a copilot only, even with the ambulance job. Tells you just how little he ever worked.
I’m surprised the press haven’t given William the credit for Harry’s army career. They tried to credit kate with the success of meghans smart works project. William and Kate don’t care about actually being successful and doing great things, they only care that the press write that they are.
Thank you! That was my observation, the one who sacrificed for his country and risk his life in Afghanistan, is featured in civilian clothes, and William, who has never gone to war, is resplendent and medaled in full miltary regalia, to trick us into believing that W is more patriotic than H.
It would have been really nice if these idiots stopped talking to the media but alas!!! Regardless of how much William tries, the fact still remains that his efforts to smear his brother and sister in law to appease the press is a huge mistake. Trying to distract from the fact that it was a story by Dan Wootten that set all this in motion, is not working, he is just muddying the waters even more. Harry issued his statement and has stayed quiet since. William and the courtiers continue to leak and talk to the press, making matters worse, SMH. So who is the dim one now, is that still Harry? And I can’t with the media pictures of uniformed William that has done absolutely nothing for his country beside a plain clothes Harry, THE only one in that family that served 2 tours in Afghanistan and the ONLY ONE of the 3 Wales men that has ever served in active front line armed conflict, these British media people are really reaching.
“It would have been really nice if these idiots stopped talking to the media but alas!!”
Part of exactly why H&M are leaving. The RF are compulsive media crack addicts. They will never stop. So they’re being cut off.
Let’s not forget the previous leak – Harry and Meghan’s whereabouts when they were on their break. That is a security issue. It was a loathsome thing to do. And it could only have come from within the palace.
The problem is, it is working. Not everyone knows a PR strategy from a mile away. Not everyone (very few people, weirdly) knows what gaslighting is. Most people only read and watch mainstream press – and this is the kind of thing they are all parroting. The average Joe probably takes all of William’s words at face value and blames Meghan. I would imagine a lot of POC see straight through it, because they’ve experienced this coded language all their lives. But Mary and Sally from down the way? Totally believe it. And the majority of the middle class and upper middle class will all eat it up. I know a very snobby British woman in her 30s who is disgusted by the Sussexes, calls it Megxit, and mostly blames Meghan. She’s well-educated and intelligent; but totally buys into the blame-game William & Co are selling. Her inherent classism (and likely racism that she doesn’t see in herself) come into play in a big way. When I pointed out the obvious (to me, to readers here) that Meghan has been brutally attacked since marrying in, that the family has done nothing to protect her – saving that protection for William’s cheating rumours and Andrew (until he made it so bad they could no longer protect him fully); also that many of the leaks with nasty stories were sourced from BP, CH and KP; and that they have a biracial son who that they likely don’t want to grow up in that kind of nastiness, etc. this woman said very primly “you’re entitled to your opinion.” And then whinged about paying for Frogmore Renovations and their wedding. Honestly, I think William’s strategy will play perfectly well to a large portion of the population. A minority will see through this and see him for the selfish, entitled a-hole he clearly is. I can’t wait for Australia to be a republic. I certainly hope this *%#}+> is never my king!
SKF – funny you say that because I was on some other sites and the hate towards the Sussexes is overwhelming. Which is odd because most of these people are the ones saying that they are tired of paying for the royal family from their taxes and here you have H&M saying they want to be financially independent. You would think that those complainers would be happy about less mouths to feed on their taxes.
ITA Gaah. The irony of this is certainly not lost on me.
Poor Sussexes are damned if they do and damned if they don’t.
I confess that all along I felt Celebitchy readers assumed the worst of William and Kate. With this statement, I no longer doubt William’s egocentric malevolence. Wi William runs to the press to try to make it look like for some reason he can’t put his arm around his brother?? This is precisely the time to put his arm around his brother. What a terrible rotter he is; between Harry’s paternal side and Meghan’s paternal side, they’ve sure had a dreadful amount of betrayals. They are smart to distance themselves as much as possible!
Completely agree. This is not a helpful statement, this is more gasoline on the fire. If the monarchy really wanted the drama and crisis talks rumors to go away, they wouldn’t be putting these kinds of statements out. It would be all support and hope for the future.
It’s just awful. Woeful William wants a pity party for himself. This statement is all about him and not the best interests of his brother and Meghan. She’s just the interloper standing in the way of controlling his brother.
A common tactic with narcissists in particular and abusers generally: DARVO
Deny
Accuse
Reverse
Victim &
Offender
Wills is trying to paint himself and the members of the BRF that have patently NOT been there for Harry as the ‘true victims’ in this. It’s all horse droppings. It’s deflection, so Workshy Wanderdick doesn’t have to examine and take responsibility for his crappy behaviour. Which, with people who abuse others, is something they never ever do (see: Donnie Two Scoops, aka Individual-1)
Years of him feeding lies to the media under the table, no solid show of public support for the Sussexes, on top of years of goading Harry and putting him down – watch old interviews of the boys together, through the lens of Wills being an abusive toxic emotional abuser. It’s truly cringe-worthy. I can’t watch them now b/c it reminds me too much of the dynamic I grew up in. Like Harry, I was the scapegoat. Like Harry, being the scapegoat honed my sense of justice, and that helped me get free.
Abusive people, I swear all seem to use the same playbook. Wills’ manipulative streak and nastiness are so transparent.
BRF is having to walk back a lot of “Palace sources” comments this week. Comments likely put out by Wills himself or his flying monkey proxies.
Maybe all the fuss about Harry and Megan is to take the focus off Prince Andrew.
“I’ve put my arm around my brother all our lives, because it’s easier to shove him under the bus that way.” Fixed it for you Billy. I’m starting to really despise this jacka$$.
oh yes, yes, yes you did fix it for him
Yes. You did fix it. Karma is a bitch, William, and I hope it comes for you very soon.
If he didn’t have “Prince” before his name, Normal Bill would simply be a nasty, narcissistic oik.
Exactly. Boy, bye.
That is absolutely the truth. I put my arm around my brother to get him in a good position to knife him in the back… but now he has a mixed race wife so I wash my hands of him. Run Harry and Meghan do the minimum you must but leave these abusive jerks in your rear view mirror.
Et tu Brute.
Damnnnnnnnn if that’s not the truth! You said it perfectly Kay.
MUAHAHA! Well done!!!
👏👏👏
How do you put your arm around someone while you’re stabbing him in the back?
Yep!
He stabs him in the stomach … it’s easier.
Reading all of the vitriol directed towards Harry/Megan is disgusting, that this statement was more gasoline to the raging fire was the intent. H3ll with him, I hope Harry burns it all to the ground. Refuse any deals, publish tell-all book/documentary. They do not deserve his protection, loyalty or anything else.
I hope he does, too. I’d love truth over gossip, speculation, and projecting.
Omg! Omg! – amazing comment!
*slow clap* damn right
Last time Workshy put an arm around anyone, he got a pigeon shrug.
Is he going for a hat trick?
Throw yourself under a bus William,
🤣🤣🤣🤣💀💀
The gaslighting efforts are very real. Almost every single article I’ve read on this has had an angle questioning Harry’s mental health and advancing the narrative that perhaps he’s not mentally balanced at the moment.
William is a malignant narcissist, who can’t tolerate the fact that his brother and his wife constantly overshadow him, simply because they are more interesting/exciting/glamorous etc.
My suspicion is that he will want to humiliate them- he will work incredibly hard to derail the talks (as much as he can) and ensure that they come away from this with as little as possible.
BellaDuPont I agree with you but I think we also have to add that the Sussexes overshadow because they work more/want to work more and seem authentic. So in addition to intrinsic characteristics you mentioned, there are also things that William and Kate have control over! This is what annoys me (well, one of the many many things) about it all. I really believe the Cambs would get some of the love and attention they seem to want if they got out there and worked more, appeared more engaged and passionate, and connected with people (although they may legitimately not be able to do that last bit). I guess I just really hate when people complain about things they have the power to change!!!
Also, William is a complete a$$hope with serious issues. I really believe that there is some serious scandal or dirt on him and Harry will use this to negotiate. It’s crazy to me how stupid the royal family is. After everything with Diana they have another situation where they should be able to see how being supportive and welcoming to Meghan would only benefit them in the long run both as a family and an institution and they just couldn’t do it. They’ll have only themselves to blame when everything falls apart. And I’ll be over here laughing as the BRF flounders and Sussexes’ stars rise.
You are so right wrt the additional intrinsic characteristics M+H share. Having said that, empathy doesn’t come easily to people who don’t experience it. Which is why William struggles to hide his boredom/outright lack of interest in his causes.
Yes you’re completely right about the empathy.
Is it really gaslighting though? I have no doubt that William as behaved like an ass at many points during all of this. I’m sure Harry has had his moments too but Harry & Meghan have both stated that this is in part about their mental health, so William worrying about is brothers mental health seems valid.
We always talk about poor Harry, how he’s suffering after losing his mum, how Meghan’s worried that he’s traumatised and how this is why he behaves in the way he does. We seem to forget that William also lost his mum. Neither seem overly well adjusted. William isn’t as relatable and warm as Harry but also calling him a narcissist feels as though it’s bordering on cruel when we don’t really know that.
No matter what we think about the siblings, this must really hurt for both of them.
Yes. It really is gaslighting. William has encouraged the vicious feeding frenzy on Meghan in order to protect himself from coverage about his affairs. He seems more than prepared to hurt his brother in order to help himself. And then, while Harry (likely under orders from his father and the Queen) says nothing publicly while negotiations continue, he comes out with this statement where he is the victim and Harry is mentally unstable. It is the epitome of gaslighting.
Gaslighting: manipulate (someone) by psychological means into questioning their own sanity.
I am a Clinical Psychologist by profession and I honestly feel that this isn’t as cut and dry as with @Nahema or @Mich are making it sound. @Nahema is right, there is a lot more going on with William than that he’s simply a terrible person or having Narcissistic Personality Disorder.
He’s probably thrown his brother under the bus when it comes to covering his (possible) affair but that in itself isn’t gaslighting. Worrying about someones mental health when they have given no cause for concern or are simply upset could be gaslighting but again, both Harry and Meghan and spoken out about this, already giving cause for concern. Everyone with a heart has worried about their mental health.
I know that everyone on here is team Sussex and loathes the Cambridges but actually from a neutral standpoint, it’s likely William has treated his brother poorly but is also worried about him and probably has some regrets. Both things can be true.
Siblings fall out and treat each other badly all the time. It’s even more complicated when you have a shared childhood trauma. This doesn’t make either side bad a bad person.
It’s crazy how even a clinical psychologist wants to make excuses for William and co. He’s a gaslighter. He’ll say he’s concerned about you when you say you’re unwell because of the press, even though he is partially/largely responsible for said press that is making you unwell. He will say to the public and your face that he wants you in the fold while also plotting to make sure that you are MINOR royals who never work more than or overshadow he and his wife. He will say how concerned he is about your relationship and how you should REALLY reconsider your choices because HE cares, but then will turn around and openly start affairs, sniffing rosebushes, vacationing w/o his family, stalling engagements and relationships….it’s just too much. Stop making excuses for this sorry man. He needs help. But he’s too spoiled to get it.
Samsara – Yeah. I’m going to stick with GOING TO THE PRESS to insinuate your brother is mentally unwell – when you a) likely helped set events in motion to put him in the position he is in and b) know he can’t/won’t respond – is disgusting. I don’t think he has NPD. I think he has been raised his whole life to think he is the only person who matters and he acts accordingly.
@samsara
+1
Sadly many around here have reduced William into a one dimensional Disney villain, and many theories have been built upon this particular foundation. So there is no point trying to inject your knowledge into this discussion, many here don’t want their pet theories challenged.
Abusers rarely see themself as abusers.
@Samsara, I don’t know if William is NPD or whatever but, what I do know is it would serve everybody’s best interests if William and all his minions stopped talking, giving interviews, issuing statements, etc to the British media. William is just 2 in line, he is not prince of Wales and he is not king William. Prince Charles and TQ have not said a thing about this split as it is a family affair that they (Windsors) need to resolve as a family without any influence from outside forces, why cant William and his minions play by those very basic rules instead of continuously smearing his brother non-stop? The fact is still that William (or his minions did with his permission) leaked where his brother was vacationing and also leaked the story Dan Wootten printed in The Sun. Based on just that William is responsible for setting all the most recent events in motion, the least he can do is shut his trap, that’s it, muzzle it.
Interesting. (And I’m not saying that snarkily.)
I think it IS gaslighting, and I also think that William has no idea. From where I’m sitting, this all comes down to one thing: implicit bias racism — the most difficult to quantify and explain.
I’m sure that William and the rest of the crown crew are CERTAIN that they’re the “good guys” who haven’t “put a foot wrong.” And that’s because they don’t — and can’t — see how they’re treating Meghan poorly. That’s why implicit bias racism is so freaking toxic and damaging. We’re never taught to recognize it, and when someone accuses us of it, we immediately become dangerously defensive because we feel like our very identities are being attacked, and we have zero tools to see where we’re going wrong.
Since psychology is a social science based in “White” theory, even most psychiatrists and psychologists don’t / can’t recognize it, forget about helping clients work through it, or pointing out to people who engage in it that they are, indeed, behaving poorly.
The real “crime” here is the refusal of the royal family (and our Western societies as a whole) to recognize that they probably DO treat Meghan differently — worse — and the effect that has on her psyche and personhood. The real problem is that they refuse to #believeher (because they don’t have the tools), much less look at their own behavior, double standards, etc. And until they can recognize that they’re not blameless, nothing will change.
Unless you’ve experienced narcissistic abuse personally I think it’s very hard for people to recognize, even those who have training in the mental health field. It took me years to figure out what the hell was going on, and during that time I constantly made excuses for the narcissist’s behaviour because why would someone ever be so deliberately evil? Once you’ve experienced it then it becomes very easy to recognize.
I went to a therapist to deal with what I was going through, already having a good idea that I was happening. The therapist gave me lots of options for how to help work through these issues with the other person (which was honestly good advice if you’re dealing with a someone normal). I did everything she said. After months of me reporting back how none of it worked, she finally admitted I was right. However, I was grateful because it thoroughly confirmed what I already knew.
If a narcissist treats you badly it’s not their problem, it’s your problem for being upset by it. Narcissists know how you feel, they just dont care
The whole part about how William has always “put his arm around his brother,” and always been there to support him when we just read this weekend that after the African documentary William telephoned Frogmore to set up a visit but then never ended up going is gaslighting. The whole “I just want us all to come together and be on the same team and work together as a family because I want my baby brother around so much,” when William has also been leaking to the press about how he wants to exile them to either Africa or Canada is gaslighting. The fact that William has gone from “incandescent with rage,” and assuring us that the Sussexes “will be punished for this,” to “I never said I was ‘incandescent with rage’ and no one will be punished,” to “I’m just worried about my sweet little brother and want to be able to comfort him all the time in his times of need,” is gaslighting.
Hmm……the William apologists are out in full force, I see.
Ok, let’s all just ignore the evidence we can see with our lying eyes and ears. It’s best for all.
@fatladysinging, while you’re right about psychology in general failing to pick out systemically racist issues, things are changing and as a WOC, I’m very much aware of them. It’s also not fair to assume that just because I’m a psychologist, I haven’t come across such people in my personal life.
Lots of people are accurately pointing out that comments like ‘fragile’ or ‘unstable’ could potentially be gaslighting. I’m not saying I’m 100% sure it’s not but I AM saying that we can’t be certain it is either.
I’m not excusing Williams behaviour. Putting labels on him and attempting to diagnose him with some sort of disorder is excusing him. It’s saying that he is unwell and at some level can’t help his behaviour. It’s suggesting that he also needs help.
Really William and the other royals all need to speak up and acknowledge that the British press have been racist & xenophobic and it needs to stop. The thing that’s stopping them I suspect is the fact that they themselves are racist & xenophobic and they’re supportive of the sentiment of the press. Probably not because they’re all suffering from mental illness.
Samsara maybe we can agree that William is playing a PR game here and would be better served showing his compassion privately and in person to his brother and his brother’s family. Running to the press to complain is an attempt at controlling the narrative, not an expression of genuine love or concern. Especially because he knows and we all know that the press is deeply traumatic for Harry.
Also, I wonder as another commenter said, have you considered the racial dynamics here before asking us to excuse William? Are you aware of the N word being used by Rapist Prince Andrew to a man of color and the racist brooch worn by Princess Michael to one of Meghan’s first family events? Princess Michael who’s already been in the news for naming black sheep after the Williams sisters and yelling at a table of Black patrons in a restaurant? Do you think this lily white family is without internalized racial prejudice? Are you aware of the racialized epithets and pictures shared by prominent journalists and tabloids (the chimpanzee picture in particular)?
He can’t put his arm around his brother now? What’s changed, except Harry has married a Black / biracial woman? Who’s active and beloved?
The truth is that *Meghan and* Harry could never fit under William’s shadow.
What he’s really saying is he can’t put his arm around MEGHAN.
That is going unspoken here. I assure you that a metaphorical failure to embrace a Black sister-in-law is racialized. He may disguise it and certain people may disguise it as a dislike of her ambition or celebrity but it’s very simple, he is not comfortable with Black power (compounded by misogynoir). Racism is internalized and we don’t always question it.
I do find it very interesting that Harry married a Black biracial woman. So unexpected. How does he confront his family’s past as colonizers within the context of his relationships with his spouse and their child?
@Samsara
I, too, am a woman of color. And honestly, I didn’t even read your comment. I was replying to the original comment about “gaslighting” by Nahema — hadn’t gotten to yours yet.
Important to note that gaslighting is not a disorder. It’s an abusive action. I won’t diagnose William. But his actions are really gross, nuanced situation or not.
Agreed, Nahema and Samsara. I’m always most sympathetic to “Team Sussex,” but I can’t get behind this sort of labelling when it comes to real mental health disorders. That’s not defending William, that’s recognizing that we are not in these rooms with these people and do not truly know their lives. If being in the mental health field has taught me anything (not to mention my own experiences), it’s that there can be multiple, complicated, painful things going on for each person and they can all be true. That’s not to excuse racism and criminal activity in the royal family–that’s atrocious and should be eradicated. But when it comes to the dynamics between siblings I don’t think we can be cut and dry from such a distance. Maybe it makes reading celeb gossip less fun to feel that way, but most people aren’t true villains–they’re just boring humans making mistakes like the rest of us.
Samsara – I see what your saying, and I do agree gaslighting is used sometimes in places it shouldn’t be when it cones to people discussing abuse. Serious question for you (no sarcasm or anything, genuinely want your thoughts :)), say a person indirectly abuses another, like what many believe is William going through the press to add on to/support the mudslinging at his sister in law and brother. The sil and brother speak out about how hurt and hurting they are and make moves away from a toxic environment for them. The mudslinger either genuinely (or not) make a public statement about how badly they feel for the sil and brother but never takes ownership, so gets credit for being kind when they really added to the abuse. Would that be gaslighting or straight abuse or just being an a-hole? My opinion regardless is that statements like Williams don’t help the situation.
@Derriere your answer to @Samsara post is spot on👏👏👏
This is interesting as I reread some of the older comments with the additions now of more thoughts. What if the press is making up – or at least heavily exaggerating, say – William’s side of this also? Is there any possibility of that also being true? Don’t shoot me…asking for a friend…
To be fair to William, that quote, and we don’t know how far it is a direct quote was actually edited by the Sunday Times for maximum headline effect. The bit missing was , ‘We are separate entities now’, which could be interpreted as we have grown up and moved on, rather than it just meaning l can no longer support my brother.
But either way it shows a mess. The brothers were not close even before Meghan came on the scene.
@samsara: I thought licensed psychologists aren’t supposed to diagnose someone who is not under their own care…
Thanks Samsara. Agree 100%. This is all speculative as we aren’t appraised with the facts, nor will we ever be. I don’t think W and K cover themselves in any glory and I certainly don’t feel their part in the ‘firm’s’ non defence of meghan against the nasty racist British press, but vilifying speculatively is a bit pointless. Ultimately, they’re both very understandably emotionally damaged men and very different men, so the way they handle and behave will be very polar. Most British people (who aren’t mad right wing racists) beef with M+H is that they spent a huge amount of taxpayer’s money renovating a property very recently they now won’t live in. No one makes a decision like this lightly, so people are cross they wasted that cash. Very legitimately in my view. i welcome their desire for self sufficiency and I understand their decision.
William directs the staff at KP. The moment a negative comment about William is posted, it is removed. They allow racist, abusive comments towards Meghan to stay. That is merely one simple example.
Yes, W&K are actively part of the anti-Sussex attack.
@ Nahema
I’m not really sure there’s anything unbalanced about saying “Please stop abusing my wife”.
That is the crux of the Sussex argument, isn’t it? So for this family (especially William) to not say a single word against the abusers (the press), and instead question the mental stability of the victims, (i.e. a husband struggling to protect his wife from that incessant abuse), to me is the very definition of gaslighting.
As I said before, I now believe William is genuinely a malignant narcissist/sociopath. Read up on it. They are extremely dangerous people and the way he has worked to systematically unravel this couple is textbook.
Just a really quick excerpt:
“Malignant narcissism is a psychological syndrome comprising an extreme mix of narcissism, antisocial behavior, aggression, and sadism.[1] Grandiose, and always ready to raise hostility levels, the malignant narcissist undermines families and organizations in which they are involved, and dehumanizes the people with whom they associate.[2]”
He fits the definition to a ‘t’. My MIL does as well. The best way to cope with people like this is to avoid them if at all possible. And that is precisely what Meg and Harry plan to do.
Again, as I commented above, I understand why everyone believes this to be the case and who, knows, maybe everyone is right but we don’t have enough info to go around handing out diagnosis like that.
William should have spoken out about the racism in the press. All of the royals should have but they didn’t. Saying you’re concerned about someones mental health is not on it’s own, gaslighting. People are making a huge amount of assumptions based on things reported in the media which we all know aren’t necessarily factual.
William has clearly behaved poorly and had questionable judgement, as have all of the royals but this doesn’t mean he has some kind of personality disorder. In fairness to those who do battle with mental heath disorders and those close to them, I don’t think we should be throwing around labels like this.
@ Vava
Thank you. As you’ve pointed out, the top recommended measure when dealing with these types of individuals is to put as much distance as you can between you and the malignant narcissist.
What are Meghan + Harry doing?
Samsara. When someone talks about their experience of being abused and someone responds saying “they are concerned that the person seems fragile” Which is how William responded to Harry, it is concern trolling and a form of gaslighting. It is also a classic tactic of an abusive person against their victim which also applies here.
@ Samsara
I really appreciate your input, Samsara, but I would ask you how long and how thoroughly you’ve been following this story? Consider a character Who routinely:
– Throws his beloved brother under a bus,
– Leaks extremely damaging stories to the press, even at the height of his sister-in-law’s pregnancy
– Arranges for his sister-in-laws deeply toxic father to trotted out on a weekly basis to rain insults and accusations at her (and then reward the team with an award nomination), all again during pregnancy
– insinuates at mental imbalance/fragility each and every time he give a comment about his brother
– Envious, ego driven plotting to remove his brother from the limelight/diminish him
– Jealously uses his innocent children to compete for attention
– Gets his wife to copy the object of his derision, even while encouraging her abuse
There are multiple incidents of each point above. I’m no clinical psychologist but I have a sibling who sadly exhibits a lot of these traits which has forced me to do extensive reading around the subject, as well as talk to therapists to get a sense of what the hell is/was happening, since the sibling *absolutely and completely* refuses to actually talk to any professional.
Let’s not forget that Meghan has plenty of personal experience with toxic, manipulative, narcissistic behaviour from her father and half-sister. If she recognized these similar behaviours from Harry’s family (not just William perhaps), that would have been a real eye opener for him. He wanted the BRF to be “the family she never had” and sadly it sounds like they are more like the one she has worked so hard to put behind her.
I hate that they are using mental health against Harry. To me, this is the strongest he has ever been. He is going after the bullies and telling them ‘no’. He has the support that he needs to do this.
William is the one that needs help. Harry was man enough to admit he needed it but William also went through the same thing. He seems like the type that would look down on someone that needs help. What a cold family. I’m so glad Harry and Meghan are getting out. That is no place to raise your son.
The whole thing about using mental health against Harry… that’s where we see the depth of William’s hypocrisy, isn’t it?
For a man who claims to be a champion of mental health through various charities, Wills does not walk his talk in day to day life.
You mean you won’t because he’s not willing to ‘sing from the same songsheet’ that you want him to or play as part of your ‘team’.
The Sunday Times has an interesting article that says that the tensions between William and Harry go way back BEFORE he met Meghan and that he was frustrated at being told NOT to do things because of William. It also says that in the talks tomorrow William wants to make sure that he is not overshadowed by H&M. There we have it – this is ALL about William chucking his toys of the pram that he can no longer control and bully Harry.
Given this and that its being reported that TQ and Chuck are concerned for Harry’s mental health Harry may react by burning the bridges esp with William.
I really dont understand William.
If he doesn’t want to be overshadowed then why doesn’t he just work more?
Because the world is supposed to revolve around him. He isn’t supposed to have to work to accommodate it.
The Sunday Times also has an article today that the Royals, Edward and Anne included, are blaming the Queen’s private aide, Edward Younge, for losing control and allowing the current chaos.
Also in the Times, a great reader comment on Wills worth reposting: ‘I’ve put my arm around my brother all our lives but this time I have a knife.’
People are wising up to the Wandering Scepter?
He’s been sticking that knife in Harry since they were kids.
I do wonder if it was a factor in Harry’s “wild days” – no stability or support at home, not allowed to breath a word about how he felt about losing his mum… he turned down a self-destructive path for a while and there were signs in the press that Wills and Chaz were both trying to benefit from that. The whole “Bolland/rehab” article debacle is one incident that comes to mind. Picking Harry’s fancy dress costume at the “Colonials & Savages” party…
Military life, the deployments and the role they played in getting away from the high pressure fishbowl gave Harry some clarity I think, and was probably the saving of him.
@Leigh Thanks for sharing. I’ve wondered a lot recently about the individual who replaced Sir Christopher Geidt(sp?) and their background/qualifications etc. Given the immensely poor job he is doing, I’d be expecting to hear a lot more about him.
I’ve forgotten the name of the commentator, female/British, but a while ago she actually and very simply stated that the issue is that one couple doesn’t want to be overshadowed and the other couple doesn’t want to be marginalized. I think we can all figure out which couple is which in terms of the concerns.
But the thing about that is no one can control how popular someone else is. H&M have charisma, the “IT” factor. Either you have it or you don’t. And H&M have no control over how people react to them. It’s like trying to control the weather. You simply can’t.
I agree with you. I was merely stating how she summed up the tension, which I can believe, but emotions aren’t rational. Also, I think Will and Kate waited too late to try to bloom. They should have been out front years ago marking their territory, so to speak.
I agree@ Chelle and that is why Harry and Meghan need to get out and as quickly as possible. Harry can never overshadow William, Meghan can never overshadow Kate and when he gets older god forbid Archie ever overshadow the Cambridge kids. They want Harry and Meghan to be Edward and Sophie, content to hold the queens blanket while riding in the car with her. H&M don’t want that, frankly who would in this day and age? So they are doing the best thing which is to leave. And if I were them I would not look back.
I understand your points; @Guest2.0’s as well.
It is the Diana vs Charles all over again; or Michelle Obama vs Melania Trump
You cannot control popularity, no matter what! some people just have that natural ability to draw people in: Harry definitely inherited it from his mother; Harry was more popular than W way before Meghan showed up; why wasn’t that a problem then?
The thing is with Meghan, the Sussexes became almost magnetic! what their haters don’t understand is their own actions also contributed to that status. There is nothing W&K can do at this point, that will change that. W&K were around in December but one post from SR IG, boom, they are off the front pages.
Editors know they sell; not W&K.
So it would be more effective for W to work with Journalists to ensure his work gets front page. Even his whatever prize got bump up the front page because of Archie. Instead of slamming his brother to ensure negative coverage, why not ask editors and newspapers to always get him & his wife the front page? wouldn’t that be more effective?
@MsIam ——– unfortunately I don’t think there is anything that will stop even if H&M leave. W better ensures that when they leave, they should never do anything that attracts too much attention; but how is that possible?
Meghan showing off anywhere will always be more interesting than 10000 garden shows by Kate; no matter what!
The problem is, how do you ensure that the press doesn’t talk about H&M? H&M successfully pushed Trump off the news cycle in the US despite the Iran situation! that’s insane, completely insane but it did happen for a few hours; I only follow the RF because of Meghan and I will continue to support all her endeavors; the woman is impressive and courageous and I deeply respect that!
CNN, MSNBC, NYTimes, WashingtonPost, the Boston Globe, etc… all covered the H&M decision; all of them….even crappy Fox but they are not very different from the right wing British media
W&K better find a cure against that type of interest!
William will never be able to control their global/international popularity. Even if they never do any charity work again (highly unlikely) they will *alway* be watched and talked about, even if they just show up in public to go shopping. As @Guest 2.0 said, you can’t control having an IT factor. Meghan and Harry always had that IT factor individually, but *together* it IS magnetic.
Even if the UK papers are banned by him (if that is even possible) from talking about them, we live in a global media age now. This isn’t the 1930s. The British press not reporting on something/someone isn’t going to keep it secret from the British Public in this internet age.
William has ZERO foresight. If he was smart, he would have ran with that whole “Fab 4” nonsense, and embraced Meghan and Harry’s popularity as a way to boost himself by doing more joint engagements, publically having their backs when she was attacked, etc. He would have gotten amazing public good will for being the protective older brother and the older brother figure in Meghan’s life that her own half-brother never clearly was to her.
But hell, I guess that would have required him to actually want to do work instead of just taking credit for other people’s. Because no, trying to take credit for anything Meghan and Harry did wouldn’t have entered into the above equation, and he’d totally want to do that.
I love gillian anderson on the same cover
She looks so good!
Let’s have tea with Gillian, shall we? She is infinitely more worthy than anyone mentioned in the above article. 😛
As I said in an another post William knows he’s getting blamed for Sussexit on social media despite the British press kissing up to him. Going from Harry and Meghan are divas to Harry and Meghan are unstable is abhorrent. If evidence bears out he was behind the smears – like former KP staff starts spilling tea – I hope the karma bus comes for William that will cost his the throne.
I wonder if that KP assistant that was fired (after returnIng from her honeymoon I think) decided to start singing about what was really happening at KP.
Wow, the compassion, it just flows /sarcasm/
The cruelty is just……
Outside if William, I don’t get the sense that the main issue is even with the family. I think it’s more about the absolutely brutal campaign of harassment and abuse that the media has been waging against them. I think they’ve just had enough, plain and simple.
The secondary issue I think has been the coldness of the family and how detached and indifferent they’ve been to their situation. I think communicating that M+H are not in the so-called slimmed down family was probably the last straw.
Meanwhile, the press are doing a brilliant job of pretending that they have absolutely nothing to do with the current state of affairs. There seems to have been zero reflection on their role in this…..in fact, certain factions seem to be basking in their success in driving this couple to the brink. In fact, many of them are stepping up their attacks on Meghan in particular, in a way that I find completely shocking. What has happened to humanity? We’re now a race of extremely cynical, hard hearted, pitiless monsters.
F-cking scary shit.
“We’re now a race of extremely cynical, hard hearted, pitiless monsters. ”
Not we. Some of us are, yes. And those people buy magazines. And those people are the reason why the media produces this kind of vile crap, catering to the demands of the market. While I think very poorly of the media, for the obvious reasons, at the end of the day they just want to sell, so I hold the buyer equally responsible for this kind of reporting.
There is, however, also the other set of humans, which are disgusted by this kind of treatment. All hope is not lost.
but normal people are waking up to media abuse of meghan and all had receipts of media abuse. So many ppl have articles about how they write about meghan and kate. Its very interesting on bbc the presenter asked the audience if they think what Meghan and harry did wrong. surprising everyone agreed with Meghan and harry on their decision. i think this makes palace in panic mode. They think the Sussex will get backlash from public and public doesn’t care about them steeping out , other than few crazy nuts Cambridge stans in twitter. Also many ppl appalled from palace action over Meghan vs Andrew. this is a pr disaster for palace. I think queen and charles are in panic mode because Cambridge wont do that much work and its going look very bad .
Hannah Furness has a piece in the Telegraph that I thought was interesting. I thought it was balanced, compassionate and introspective to a degree.
@ Sojas – we ARE ‘those people’ that buy magazines. The vast majority of stories we read here and discuss are from THOSE magazines, sites etc. The Times, The Sun, the Fail etc.
While I agree with you that the tabloid press has gotten nastier and nastier and seemingly create controversy out of thin air, I disagree that there is some mythical ‘they’ driving the sales. We all participate (myself included) and comb articles for information that supports whatever particular opinion we are looking to validate.
I am guilty of consuming every inch of news on these two and the rest of the Royals in general. I think if we are going to talk about the toxicity of stan culture and the clicks it generates, we should at least take some responsibility on being part of it.
Why exactly can’t he “put his arm” around his brother anymore? What does that even mean? It seems an aggressive way of describing protection or caring (which I think is what he is trying to imply). William is continuing a long line of isolated and narcissistic British rulers.
it all seems very controlling to me. Like I had my arm around him and could steer him, but now he’s uncontrollable.
Much like how he puts his hand on Kate’s back to steer her.
We see right through your tactics, Billy boy.
The last time he tried to put an arm around someone, he got a shrug……so he should learn to keep his arms to himself
Ok, that was truly funny. 🥳
VS that is the truth! 😀
“I can’t put my arm around him any longer. Or my wife. Maybe it’s me.” 😂
@VS
I’m giving your comment a standing ovation!
LMAO
Witnessing such public gaslighting is extremely triggering if you’ve ever personally dealt with narcissistic abuse. I’m aware of the immense privilege here, but have to wonder about the impact when your narcissistic family members have the ability to relentlessly use the media against you.
This is so true. I have a highly narcissistic mother and sister who have both been abusing me on social media as I recently decided that I’d had enough and cut them off. I can’t imagine what it would be like if I was famous and they had access to the press as part of their gaslighting campaign.
I completely understand.
My sister was verbally and physically abusive toward me for years.
The moment I stood up for myself is the moment I became the bad one.
Hang in there Snazzy. You are doing the right thing. Eventually they will get bored if you don’t play their games.
:hugs: Been there. It gets easier. You’ll have to ride out a lot of extinction bursts to get to that point, though.
It’s slightly better if your N uses “silence/neglect” as punishment. Because then it feels like a vacation.
Book I recommend: Children of the Self-Absorbed: A Grown-up’s Guide to Getting Over Narcissistic Parents, by Nina W. Brown. I found it immensely helpful, especially in conjunction with therapy. Disconnecting the buttons they installed in you and push at every opportunity takes time and patience, but it’s SO freeing!
The biggest issue for me at the beginning, was learning how *not* to be the emotional caretaker of everyone in the family. I think that’s a role Harry may have been put into, esp. as regards not being allowed to talk about/process his mum’s death b/c it would upset Chaz & Camilla.
I agree Jane Doe. And I think this leaked statement is still William doing everything he can to try and get Harry to go into Monday’s meeting as volatile as possible. William is playing a very ruthless, nasty game.
Harry’s best defense against this would be to go “medium chill”, aka “grey rock”. Just refuse to react. I would do this w/ my mother, who took delight in baiting me to that she could tear me down. With medium chill in play, when she realized she couldn’t get me to rise to her bait, she would be the one to flip out and pitch a tantrum.
Medium chill can be used against emotional blackmail really well also.
source: https://outofthefog.website/what-to-do-2/2015/12/3/medium-chill
Dearest William, future King of England –
You are a dick.
Signed,
Everyone who’s not a sycophant.
+1
Yup. I’ll sign that!!
This gives no hope for growth, and I don’t really like name-calling. May I adjust to: William you are acting like a dick. may not be as succinct, but name calling is very triggering for me, and takes us down to his level IMO
This is semantics. Similie vs metaphor. I actually don’t think the similie in this case is sufficiently descriptive of the character. So I have to support the notion that:
William, you’re a small, bent, shriveled dick.
(Sincere apologies Shirley gailgal)
I don’t take back what I wrote. Of course it’s possible he can still experience personal growth. Doesn’t change that he’s being a “small, bent, shriveled dick” (as Bella so eloquently put it) to his brother and sister-in-law. He can stop being a dick, you know.
@Bella Dupont made me laugh! Love it..and thank you! I love a gracious, witty response and you do it so well. To me, for me, language is important. I notice things like that, and am sensitive. I flinch. I think it brings down the conversation to the playground. I own this wholeheartedly as my opinion and apologize for preaching 🙂
This reminds me of my favourite line from the Paper Bag Princess, when Prince Ronald calls out Elizabeth for having the gall to rescue him while dressed in a paper bag:
“Ronald, your clothes are really pretty and your hair is very neat. You llook like a real Prince, but you are a BUM.” And they didn’t get married after all …
Perfect, really!
William is such a hopeless square. He really is from another time. Put your arm around your brother and tell him you’ll support him unconditionally. 🤦🏼♀️
That is such a perfect way to describe him.
Huge PR mistake. It would have been best to stay silent, work out a deal and appear supportive even if he didn’t mean it. Why? Life is long, and they might need H&M sooner than they think. Second, he’s going to be king, and it’s hard to be king of a commonwealth full if black and brown people when you’ve run the only mixed race person out of the family. This is short sighted and less than smart.
William’s unchecked willfulness is going to sink this ship.
William’s unchecked willfulness is a brilliant use of words. He is the epitome of willfulness.
This is something I sincerely don’t understand. Why are the queen and Charles so willing to be led by William?!?!? He’s SECOND in line, he’s not in charge right now.
I guess they’re afraid he will pick up his ball and go home and not want to be king but in order to placate him they’re basically ruining the monarchy anyway! So who knows if it will even be around for William because of their behavior in bending over backward to placate him. And they’re not making things easier for Charles’s reign either…does he not see this? Why isn’t anyone willing to put him in his place and let him know he’s not the boss yet and someone (Queen or Charles) is going to do what’s best for the “firm” in the long run and that does NOT include bullying out the first black woman to join the family!!! Why are they so afraid of William?!?!??? If he threatens to leave, call his damn bluff!!! He’s much less equipped to manage on his own than Harry! And I don’t believe Kate and her mother would want/support William to leave and Charles must know this on some level!! Charles would hold so much more leverage! I just don’t understand why no one tells him to shut up, stop leaking and get with the program. Or just ignores him like you would with a toddler throwing a tantrum…which is what everything relating to William feels like – impulsive and selfish.
The problem is that Chuck is like his mother in that she will stick her head in the sand when it comes to their own children behaving badly. William has ALWAYS been like this and Chuck/Di allowed him to behave like that. Several former employee’s of Charles have said that Charles never called William out on his behaviour or even stood up to his eldest son. As I’ve said before William behaves like this as he is surrounded by people who enable him – until Harry saying enough is enough.
It will be interesting to see what the deal entails as William will want to ensure control of what the Sussex’s do so that the Cambridges are not out shone. William is NOT going to give the Sussex’s the freedom they want without a fight – War of the Wales’s round 2 is not over yet as it will continue after the split.
Their lack of proper disciplining of William is coming back to bite them *hard*. He’s only going to cause more problems and crises down the road because grandma and daddy are too scared to put him in his place.
Because — it has been reported over and over for years — that he threatens to walk away if he doesn’t get what he wants. This came out in articles when he was allowed to retain his job after they married, and then drop down to part time work with the later group. He may be second in line, but they can’t have him pulling out.
They aren’t afraid of William, they use him!
Remember the first reports about that story of William asking Harry if he was sure marrying so fast was a good idea? Allegedly he was sent by the family to ask. Years later, their part has been erased and now we are being told William acted alone.
Do you really believe that if the Queen and Charles really liked Meghan they would allow him to bully her? No, they never really accepted her, it was all PR.
Sof I don’t buy it. They are afraid of William I think and conflict averse. Digital Unicorn is correct that William will do everything he can to dim the Sussexes light so he and Kate can shine. I think a complete break is going to have to take place.
I’m starting to wonder if William is trying to destroy the monarchy. He has zero sense of duty to the country, to his family, or to tradition, and doesn’t seem to enjoy or even tolerate the work he’s supposed to be doing as an heir. I don’t think he likes his wife or his family life but feels like he’s stuck with Kate because she’s what people seem to want in a future future Queen consort: quiet, dull, mousy, sexless, dry, boring, stable, motherly. He doesn’t work, he doesn’t try to hide his affairs, he doesn’t try to hide his petulance, he doesn’t try to hide his media machinations. He is acting like someone who wants to blow this whole thing up because he finds it “boring.” I’m sure he feels like he can live very well on all the personal wealth that that family has accumulated, money he would get whether or not he’s King.
I think a lot of the clean-up PR we see coming out of KP actually comes from Kate and her family, who very much do not want the monarchy absolved. That’s why we get so many pieces about how Kate is such a perfect princess, she’s going to be THE BEST queen consort, and her marriage and family life are perfect. I think Kate and her family are covering up the cheating that will does. He doesn’t seem to care about being discreet, but she does.
The family, the queen and Charles, want the RF to continue to they let will do whatever he wants as a way to placate him. “Oh you’re envisioning a future where the spotlight is only on you and your wife and kids? That’s fine. Let’s push out your brother. Oh, you’re thinking that the RF should work less in general? Okay, we’ll let you get by with tiny amounts of engagements each year.” They seem so scared of him.
@JALowcountryLady: Oooh, that’s something fun to speculate on. Assuming it’s true that W has threatened to quit (and can we please admit that unless we were there, none of us can definitively say that anything published about any of them is true?) what would happen if they called his bluff and said, ‘OK, go ahead! We don’t like you anyway?’ So say William won’t capitulate and leaves by choice. Is George still the next heir or does William’s exit take his kids out of line as well? And if so, we’ll then it’s … Harry, right? And what would be so bad about that? (Esp, from the snobbish family’s perspective, imagine this thought experiment prior to Harry’s “objectionable” marriage.) But now we’re in the present and let’s say Harry has voluntarily removed himself and William quits in a hissy fit. Then it’s Andrew and the one thing the world can agree on is nobody wants that. Andrew has already been“fired” by the Queen could she (or Charles in time) also remove him from the line of succession for cause? (Not saying she would, but Charles would…) And then if you’re still following the next in line is Edward. Who with Sophie and their kids … seem not a terrible endpoint if their goal is to ensure stability. Hmmm.
TL;DR: If it is true that William has made these threats as a bluff to allow himself to continue petulant behavior, maybe they should call him on it.
I also think William uses the “Diana card” a lot. I can see him continuously reminding everyone that they were so horrible to his mother and gave her so little support that she eventually ended up dead at 36 years old, leaving behind children who were still kids at the time. I think he throws that in their faces to get whatever he wants. I can see him very passive aggressively being like “I wouldn’t want what happened to my mother to happen to me….. I need to be fully supported in everything I do.”
And I don’t want to insinuate that her death didn’t actually affect and still affects William, (I see it affecting Harry very much still, so its unfair for me to say it wouldn’t affect William), but I have a feeling that William is not above using her death and the guilt the family feels over it as a way to bully and threaten people into doing what he wants. I think he saw the support and coddling/indulgence he got after her death from a family that was feeling shocked and guilty, and has found a way to make that the new normal in the family. Everyone must walk on eggshells around William because he blames them for Diana. He’s probably quite detached from it all by now, considering that he’s treating Meghan and Harry very much like Diana was treated with no care for how miserable it’s making them.
This is precisely why Harry wanted to sort things out while his grandma is still on the throne. Firstly, l think he trusts her more than his father and secondly, Harry doesn’t want to put his father in a difficult position with William because he knows that they already have a difficult relationship and Charles doesn’t want to be seen to be taking sides.
It is a very difficult family, especially when there are palace officials blocking communication and spying. The Royal Family depend heavily on these officials and don’t like to upset them. These kind of intrigues have gone on within British royalty for centuries. In the 15th century, William would have got Harry killed for wanting to do his own thing, and potentially undermine his own role. It’s just a pity that this is happening when the first senior mixed race royal appears on the scene.
I’m rolling my eyes as I read this. William is such a dick.
On the same team huh? Yeah, my earlier assessment was right. He’s pissed and thinks Meghan messed up the plan to have Harry on standby ready to be sacrificed and scapegoated at all times.
Well he did an excellent job of implicitly blaming Meghan. I can’t imagine the awful things he’s said to her/about her if this is his statement.
I don’t know how he thinks this will make him look good?
Interestingly, the stories in The Times today contradict a lot of what’s been said here over the years, including that Will never tried to reach out (confirmed by Tom Bradby he did), that Will wanted to exile them (the Leading article from the editors states plainly that the desire to go to Africa was coming from the Sussexes), that Kate is being given too much credit for Heads Together (it was partly a peacemaking strategy when BOTH brothers started getting territorial about causes), that Harry never cared about status and Will is the only one who was jealous (he very clearly does to the point that he was fixated on being the most senior royal at BP after the Queen), and that Christian Jones is the only possible source for the Dan Wootton story (per Tim Shipman aka the guy everyone loves to cite as proof Will is in control of the press, Harry is convinced one of Charles’ or William’s aides did it, but Dan Wootton is also close to/has ties to Meghan’s PR. And, btw, Private Eye has claimed in the past that Wootton has sources at Clarence House.)
I’m not saying Will isn’t jealous or tantrum-y or that Meghan and Harry haven’t suffered or are somehow deserving of what they’ve experienced, or even that the Firm is above planting narratives in the press, just that the situation probably does have a lot more nuance. I’m sure a lot of people will dismiss all of this because the BRF/Will controls the media, but it’s interesting to hear more stories about how sour Harry has been to reporters and on trips, and how disinterested/bored he is at formal and ceremonial events. For all the claims over the years of Harry constantly being thrown under the bus, the media did seem to give him a bit more cover after his military service and him returning to start Invictus and played a big part in his image rehabilitation. (Btw, the biggest issue I have with the way Meghan and Harry did this is that it happened in a way that left a lot of their charities in the dark. I think I read in the Telegraph that the Invictus staff is fielding calls from sponsors and investors who are worried the event won’t continue and the charity has no idea what’s going on or if they have a future after this year. In the same article there was a mention of the army being annoyed with Harry for being “disinterested” at the last meeting. That didn’t come from a typical RR, by the way.)
Anyway, I’ve gone on long enough. I guess that’s all to say that I don’t think these comments are any more or less manipulative than the Sussexes sending out Tom Brady to all but threaten a damaging tell-all interview if they don’t get what they want. And yes, I do think he’s become an official mouthpiece for them. (Speaking of which, Tom has clearly been a pro-Sussex source in past articles as “a friend of both brothers,” that’s been more sympathetic to Harry.)
Thank God for you and your common sense, sincerely.
I’ll second that.
I am mostly a lurker, but I read the site and comments a lot, and it is so interesting to see the same usernames using selective quotes from the same articles to defend their POV. And those POV do not seem to change. Poor Meghan (this comes down to her mistreatment by the press and the inability of the RF to act rigthfully) seems to have become a living avatar of the world’s current divisiveness.
LEXA, I was wondering what would happen With Harry and Meghan’s work with their charities but I went back to the information provided by Harry and Meghan’s website and hope that their statement of continuing their work is true. Only time will tell.
“the situation probably does have a lot more nuance.” This 100%. Especially because this is a family that is also a company and being a member is also your job. These relationships are very complicated especially when layered with the immense privilege they have enjoyed. When you’re treated like a demigod your whole life, told that your family is ordained by God to be above everyone else, you’re probably good at not getting your way (and I’m talking about both Will AND Harry).
Of course the situation has a lot of nuance. No one is saying it doesn’t. And no one is saying Harry is a saint. His disdain of the press has been well known for years (as has William’s). The Sussexes May have discussed moving to Africa but the leak about it came from William (hence the BP clapback about it).
And the idea that Meghan’s people went to Dan Wooten to leak this is just laughable.
Neither brother wants the royal life, William wants to be the aristocratic playboy trimming Rose bushes in the country and Harry clearly wants to do more philanthropy work – both have been frustrated with the constraints being Royal has put on their lives. This frustration has clearly affected their relationship and things have not been resolved between so here we are.
As for the ‘tell all’ interview – I think thats a warning to William. Its said that what William wants out of this ‘summit’ is to ensure that he and his family are not outshone by the Sussex’s – he’s still trying to exert control over their lives. To me Harry is saying ‘if you don’t back off and let us go I will burn you’ and I think Harry is at that point where he DNGAF. To me this is not about the Sussex’s and TQ & Chuck but Harry and William. Its just like the relationship between Charles and Andrew.
I think both Harry and Meghan have/are struggling with it all and the RF hasn’t really supported them in the right way – there is far too much dysfunction and politics for that to happen. Everyone has their limits!
no i think harry will make a good king and meghan would have worked if the palace rein the media and dont leak about her.If meghan and harry got positive pr like cambridge, im sure they will stay and work happily. Harry mostly said he doesnt want royal life is during the time he was single and he was frustrated that no woman wants to marry him because of the position. then comes meghan who is willing to work but the abuse is that they cant stand. thats why they are leaving , also the palace subtly hinted that only heirs matters, and harry find that chance left them.
@Lexa: Finally a balanced opinion.
I don’t buy the William is an evil narcissist who wants to banish his pure minded little brother narrative at all. If we’re treating the tabloids as credible sources of information, then we better be willing to believe that both brothers are entitled divas who are prone to theatrics when they don’t get their way. We don’t know goes on inside a family, and especially this one – the most tight arsed, guarded family in the UK. I find it a bit juvenile when I see commenters here getting 100% behind the tabloid stories that are anti-Cambridge and repeating the same sketchy rumours over and over again until they are declared as absolute fact. And in the meantime, anything anti-Sussex from the same tabloids are vicious lies, prime examples of gaslighting etc. None of us were there, we don’t know what went down. Maybe Will has a ginormous ego AND Harry doesn’t like playing second fiddle AND Kate doesn’t play well with other women AND Meghan is impatient. All of these could be true. Both brothers have been raised with enormous privilege and we will never understand their inter personal struggles. The comments wishing that the Cambridges burn in hell, that their children suffer when they come of age etc are so OTT considering there is zero proof of any of these alleged crimes.
No one is saying that Harry has handled everything perfectly, because he hasn’t, but pretending that William hitting the media with all these self serving quotes about how helpful he has been is ignoring the obvious too. William has not been a supportive brother. There have been more statements coming from KP denying the use of hair extensions than there have been defending his sister in law from blatant racist attacks from the tabloid media, which we know William hates as well. This exact article that’s being discussed is another example. What is the purpose of making this statement? Has KP denied it yet? Because right now the Queen has put out information trying to say that things are being dealt with and it will be worked out, Charles doesn’t seem to have said much but William is inserting himself in the narrative as the bestest brother eva which only gives the tabloids more fodder.
Thanks Alexa and Evil Owl…I think you’re right, this is such a nuanced and complex situation – I couldn’t imagine being forced to be in a royal family and not able to have a separate personal and working life. I don’t care how rich these people are, it sounds like an awful existence to me. I think both William and Harry are spoilt divas at times, and have a very complex relationship (not helped at all by the trauma of Diana’s death).
I do think Harry is the more emotionally intelligent of the two, and will ultimately make better decisions for himself because of that. (For example, seeing the writing on the wall and choosing to lessen contact with the family now.)
I do remember Michelle Obama advising Meghan that in terms of wanting to hit the ground running, she should not feel that she has to make her mark too quickly, and that she should take her time.
Honestly, none of us know what the truth is. It’s all speculation based on comments by “unnamed sources”. What’s that saying, there are two sides to every story and somewhere in the middle lies the truth. All sides have probably contributed to this huge public family fallout in some way and only the parties involved know the truth. But what we all do know is that Meghan has been viciously vilified and pilloried in the British media for over 3 years. No one can deny that truth. And from the public’s viewpoint, no one in the RF has done anything to mitigate the abuse Meghan has received, but the Royal Family did show support for a royal prince who was friends with a convicted pedophile.
Agree. The assumptions and speculations made by the press and the OP (the Tom Bradby one is quite glaring) are dominating the public conversation, but we may never know the truth. But, I do see a need, if it hasn’t already been done, for the Sussexes to personally and promptly to touch base with their non-profit affiliates in order to quell the uncertainty.
The tell-all interview threat is nothing more than blackmail and i feel the situation was really badly done.
However I’m glad a win-win situation is the path that is being sought after, the queen unlike her descendants seem to take the long term approach that is necessary to sustain an institution like the monarchy.
We may not agree with her decisions whether it was with regards to Andrew or Meghan but she has kept the monarchy going through decades of turmoil, weathered PR storms that would have annihilated others and her approach like it or not works within the british context.
H&M need to calm down with the nuclear threats, they need the royal family as much as the royal family needs them. The recent Yougov poll with the huge drop in their popularity shows that. It is tantamount to their future “financial independence” that they keep their titles and links to royalty.
Mr&Mrs Sussex just doesn’t have the same clout as the Duke &Duchess of Sussex.
Well said Mrs Bump!
@LEXA Let’s not lose site if the bigger issue.
The royal family will be streamlining.
Harry and Meghan if not this year but soon would have stepped down as senior members.
If only William didn’t leak information to the press then the Sussexes wouldn’t have had to release a statement.
A statement that made it clear that wanted to continue to support their charities.
This will be resolved hopefully this week but to downplay the role William had in this ‘crisis” is incorrect.
those poll are very manipulative. Plus those poll are taken main in brexit country side crowd. the same poll shows that kate is popular when in reality , among working woman in uk prefers meghan over kate. also the generation z and menial are big supporter of meghan and they can relate to her and her struggle of working woman. these woman cant relate to kate and those poll are taken by rr and they manipulate. One thing we can earn from trump win is nobody tell their true intention via poll. when you look at the crowds of kate and meghan there is huge differences. the people who support kate because of the dress she wore. no self respected woman support her. those english countrywoman who are age above 50 love kate because she presents what those woman are doing. not having opinion and walking behind her hubby and turning blind eye to hubby cheating.
@aria
Nobody was questioning the polls when Harry was at the head of the list..
not everything is fake news
No, Ali, they weren’t going to be stepping down. The streamlining plan always included Harry and spouse as senior working royals during Charles’s reign. That changed when Harry tired of being the whipping boy, and his wife put all of their work ethics to shame.
Mr and Mrs Mountbatten-Windsor doesn’t sound too bad.
The problem with going to the media is that they have a story to sell and it’s rare that the full truth ever comes out. And everyone is going to the media in that family.
I still think that it makes no sense for Harry and Meghan to leak anything to Christian Jones or Dan Wooten, especially since the latter has been hostile to Meghan from day one. The PR employee connection is a red herring. Whether it’s KP or Charles it impossible to definitely prove, but we have a lot of statements supposedly coming from William in the media right now. Charles has been quiet.
The Queen hasn’t been credited to saying much outside of saying this proposal will end up being worked on for Charlotte and Louis as well. That is something productive and calming. What we do have right now Is William hitting the media with self serving comments trying to make himself look good whereas the actual monarch is getting comments out there to try to say that the situation is being handled. Doesn’t give a lot of confidence as to how William is as a leader does it?
Frankly, I can see both sides of why a palace source would leak and why a Sussex source would. I do feel that it’s wrong to assume the Sussexes would have no reason to–based on the accounts in the Telegraph (which, yes, is very pro-Palace) and Times of how the timeline went: Harry was pushing for this, Charles was dragging his feet and telling them it would “take time” to sort through everything, BP was giving them the runaround and denying access to the queen, and they emotionally and mentally could not take the status quo anymore. The leaking ultimately sent discussions into overdrive and forced the palaces to move at a speed they almost never do, which is what they ultimately wanted. One thing that really struck me in various reports was how shocked the Sussex team at the palace were by this, and how Sara Latham and their new private secretary tried to argue against the Sussexes moving forward with releasing it before they’d hashed it out with the Queen and Charles. Compounding all of this is that the courtiers seem to believe that Meghan and Harry have been working a lot of under the table deals via their American team for some time now, which might be why they suspect there was some underhanded dealings with the release of this.
@Lexa. But that is all speculation from unconfirmed sources just like everything else is. What the courtiers seem to believe could just be more spin on their part to justify their actions.
Sorry for the double post in response to this, but I forgot to add: I don’t actually think Charles has been quiet? In fact, I felt the articles that popped up about Charles’ fears over Harry’s mental health and him being at a “tipping point” also read as gaslight-y: https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/prince-charles-fears-harry-tipping-21256931 This has been picked up and carried over a lot of sites now, including The Daily Beast. I think pieces like this one, as well as William’s quotes today, are meant to show that neither he nor Charles are angry, largely as a way to save face for themselves, but possibly as a way to publicly communicate and commit to that “we care and will be fair” mindset to Harry and Meghan. That last bit is a stretch but I often think this family talks to one another through the press.
Wootten admits to having given Harry and Meghan 10 days to respond to his story so why would he say that if Harry and Meghan are behind the initial story leaking about moving to Canada? There is plenty of evidence to confirm that it was not H and M who leaked the original story.. Coming from Wootten himself. We can speculate as to whether or not it was Charles or William, but right now the strongest connections are to KP.
@LEXA. Had the leak came from anyone but the Sun (or the DM, if not the Sun) then I could absolutely see the Sussexs leaking. If they felt like they were getting the run around and wanted to expedite the talks, “leaking” the news would be a great way to jumpstart. But, it was the Sun and the Sussexs are actively suing them. I dont even think the Sun would accept a Sussex source in case it’s a trap to further their lawsuit.
But why not leak to Omid Scobie or Bradby or any other pro-Sussex source? So that they could control the narrative? Not to an outlet they are suing over phone hacking. H&M said in their Q&A what media contacts they will use along with their IG account. Plus there was no clue that Harry was getting the run around, Charles told him to put his proposal in writing. Harry said no because of leaks but then he or his staff turn around and leak it to the Sun? The leak came after the proposal was sent Charles and William then coincidentally the PR company leaks it to Dan Wootton? The leak was done with malicious intent so that H&M would not look like they were “winning” anything and to try and make them deal from a weaker position.
I could be understanding this wrong, but Invictus and Sentenable are Harry’s projects on his own. I doubt that he would be unble to continue working on their behalf. Now, others patronages that have been given to him from the Queen he probably wouldn’t be able to represent.
I think it’s more that they’re not certain if he’s going to want to continue to be their face, or if he’ll be able to depending on what he decides to do with his life. Interestingly, per the Telegraph, he did give WellChild a head’s up about this in September: https://www.telegraph.co.uk/royal-family/2020/01/11/concern-long-term-future-invictus-games-prince-harry-steps-back/
I wanted to add that this is the article I was thinking of in my original post. Unfortunately I got mixed up and I read the detail about the Invictus sponsors in this Express article, which I consider less reliable than The Telegraph: https://www.express.co.uk/news/royal/1227225/Royal-news-the-queen-Meghan-Markle-prince-harry-Queen-meeting. Here is the relevant quote:
“Last week’s bombshell announcement also plunged the future of Harry’s Invictus Games in doubt.
Sources within the organisation last night revealed they have been inundated with calls from worried investors and sponsors. One said: “They want to know if May’s event is still going ahead, and there is concern over the couple’s lack of popularity. It’s worrying.””
I side eye the “lack of popularity” thing but I don’t doubt that they have had calls from people wanting to check that it was still happening as planned.
Anyway, I personally think he’ll stick with everything he can, especially Invictus and Sentenable.
Why oh Why is every organization in the UK leaking like sieves? My goodness, is there no one in that country that can just keep their mouths shut? Why aren’t they talking to prince Harry himself to get the information right from him instead of trying to do all this shit in the media? Jeez, I cant with all these fools!!!
Thank you for this very detailed and thoughtful breakdown. I hope everyone reads it.
I think there are voices here that offer a measure of nuance. Hoeever, those voices aren’t a!ways the loudest and I suspect that their comments don’t always get posted. For example, I do think William is a petulant overbearing as$ but can he be kind and lovimg? Sure. Why not? Harry comes off as being more charismatic and down to earth but can he be spoiled, willful and shirt-tempered? Sure. Why not? People aren’t stock characters straight out of central casting.
The ‘singing from the same page’ line is so weird. Who talks like this? Maybe he’s trying to evoke an image of happy families at church singing hymns? idk. It makes me think of gangsters movies where someone is going to ‘sing like a canary’ i.e. inform to the police. Also ‘the same page’ sounds like he wants everyone to get their stories straight. Let’s all toe the party line.
Yes, that line was very cringeworthy and struck a false note, pardon the pun.
I am not buying William’s concern for his brother.
William has had plenty of time to come to his brother, sister-in-law and nephew’s defense and did absolutely nothing.
William, the press that you are using to your advantage will eventually turn on you.
Good luck, William and let us not forget, Kate.
I amazed at how tone deaf that doofus is. The text reads as something that a textbook emotional abuser/ narcissist would say. “Oh dear, I am sorry that you’re so unstable and mentally ill, we will welcome you back, as we are kind and godly, once you realize you should just Shut Up And Get With The Program You Worthless Piece Of Ungrateful Scum.” Hehe
I can’t believe he’s saying these things in public. My goodness, who raised this narcissistic idiot, and who the hell is advising him now? He’s completely unhinged. I hope Kate has some sense to raise her kids opposite to how William and Harry were raised. William at this point is emotionally abusive, and these black commonwealth countries should speak out against this family.
Kate is following William’s lead.
Those kids will be raised just like William and harry but in a two parent household.
They are already singling out George.
I can see it getting worse as Charlotte and Louis grow up and the press will need someone to protect George’s reputation.
Im taking this as code to mean “I’ve controlled my brother all our lives…and now I can’t anymore”. Because that is ultimately what this is about. For years William has thrown Harry under the bus and treated him as the third wheel of the Will & Kate show. And the moment Harry pushed back against that – which they blame Meghan for – it was a problem. Harry is a 35 year old man with a wife and child and his older brother is mad that he can’t about that. How pathetic is that?
I so agree with all you said. There comes a day we all come into our own and that day cake for PH. You tend to grow up and his focus should be on his wife and baby, not on the dysfunction of the BRF. Plus, Lord only knows what PH really knows and thought: why sacrifice my happiness and my my family’s for the people who have continually shown him no love or support. Their love and support is conditional. And he also knows the monster he’s dealing with (PW) and that monster will only grow as he gains more power. Better to get out now than stay in that toxic environment.
I know Harry loves and respects his grandmother, but I truly hope after she dies that Harry comes for William. Notice William says not one word about Meghan, I think he has been ghosting her from the beginning and Meghan — having been raised by a malignant narcissist — saw William for what he is from day one. I agree that William’s statement, is all about smart, healthy, strong William trying to help sick, weak, mentally unstable Harry, but the burden has just become overwhelming and he has to stop now before Harry sinks him too. What a load of bullshit. Charles also allowed a source to put out that he has been in fear for Harry’s mental health since the documentary aired and he is deeply concerned Harry might go over the edge, but not one quote from him either about Meghan. It really is sickening that they are doing everything they can do to destroy him. The Queen has — I think — forced William to the table by releasing — via palace sources — that she wants them to create this exit model so that it will also work for Charlotte and Louis in case it is wanted or needed by them in the future. I’m sure that alone has put William in a high rage as anything that is agreed for Harry will be the same model used for his own children. Such a pointed sword point for William to have to balance his need to destroy Harry. So — William has to come to the table and make good for the sake of his own children. Whomever advised the Queen to demand this is one smart tactician. By the way, the new headline yesterday, was poor Charlotte and Louis have now been pulled into Megexit mess. As John Lennon said, Karma is going to get you, I wish in William and Charles case it would be instant karma but I think it will play out slowly. Harry must be livid with this bullshit from his father and his brother, but I think he is strong enough and has had enough excellent therapy to see that they are both trying to get him to mentally breakdown. And I thought Thomas Markle was the worst. He needs to get in line behind Charles and William.
They don’t mention Meghan because she is less than nothing to them. They don’t take her seriously. To them she’s just a peasant, divorced black actress from LA. They were never going to like her, much less acknowledge her feelings. And, I think Harry hoped they’d be better, but of course they’re not. This is who they are. It just shows Harry’s nature that he hoped his family would be better. He’s a kinder soul than they are. He’s like his mother.
Thank you JA for stating this for what it truly is. The William apologists are giving me a major headache on here. He is a classic jealous manipulator William Windsor.
william must be so frustrated about not getting pruned most likely
If Charles was “so concerned” for Harry’s mental health he would talk to him. Harry tried to set up meetings with the Queen and Charles and he kept getting pushed aside. Charles doesn’t care about his sons mental health, he just cares about the image of the RF. Saying you are sick of how you are being treated and walking away is a sign of strength.
How do you know that Charles hasn’t reached out to his son? You a friend of the family?
Response to Lexa: I think what gets lost in some of these articles is that Harry and Meghan were willingly working privately with the family to come to terms. With this in mind they would not have informed patronage’s or other organizations until plan was in place. That planned pace all blew up when the leak became known to the Sussexes and they tried to get ahead of it. Now the Firm is spinning that the leak via Wooten could also be coming from Meghan via his former relationship with the American PR firm that the Sussexes hired to handle their work there. So let’s see, Wooten could have got his leak from:
1. WILLIAM’s KP PR Comm Dir whom Wooten has an ongoing sexual relationship
Or
2. As the Firm has come up with to counter this highly damaging and probable truth — some former contact Wooten had with an American PR firm the Sussexes are involved with. That firm just yesterday released an official statement that they DID NOT know about the Sussexes / Firm negotiations, they were privy to nothing and thus have never advised the Sussexes in any way on this issue.
So, how did one of their employees just happen to have this scoop and just happen to leak it to Wooten specifically. I think I’ll go with option 2 being more bullshit of Charles/William and go for the more logical path to the leak — option 1.
Also, I thought I read that Wooten knew about the Sussexes plan ten days prior to writing his article and Wooten had contacted the Sussexes for comment then. And those ten days lines up with the release of information that the Sussexes were in Canada. And no one knew the Sussexes were in Canada until the KP meeting with the RRs.
…and if the Sussexes had a 10-day heads up, it indicates to me that they had plenty of reason and time to blow this whole thing up from Canada if their intentions were insincere. Instead, they flew back to the UK to meet face-to-face in good faith and were jerked around (again).
Wooten wrote tiara gate to make Meghan look bad so there is no way Harry and Meghan would give him any information. Had Omid Scobie published the story then it would have been coming from them, but this is clearly from KP.
@JA, I’ll go with option #1 on the principle of Occam’s Razor. The simplest explanation is often the correct one.
Actually, the articles I’m referring to have been very fair on that point and have driven home how frustrated Harry and Meghan were with the slow place of discussions, and how betrayed they felt when it leaked. I don’t think the point has been lost at all and I’ve consumed A LOT of content about this over the last three days (LOL) including morning shows, news segments both here in the US and in the UK, royal podcasts, etc. The articles in question portray this particular point as a he said-she said type deal, which I think is true. It’s like the Spider-man pointing meme.
The Palace believes that their American PR leaked it and that the American PR is the one telling them to seize the opportunity of commercial ventures, and that feeling is apparently reinforced by the fact that they hid the contents of their website (or simply said it was just for the launch of foundation as someone reported) which are very polished for supposedly being quickly put together. The Sussexes believe Will or Charles’ aide(s) leaked it out of spite or to deflate their chances of getting what they want and that they’ve been right to keep things hidden because of past leaks. There’s a complete lack of trust on all sides, not just on the part of the Sussex Team. That’s why I argued above that there’s probably a ton of gray area here.
Also, where are people getting that Wootton and Christian Jones have a sexual relationship? PopB*tch just said that they were friends–was that coded language? This honestly reminds me of Tumblr and Twitter people harassing Omid and trying to claim that he had or has a relationship with Markus Anderson.
@Lexa the PR team is there to make the client look good, not create a disaster. And why would they leak to a newspaper that their own clients are suing? And I’m sure William and KP have plenty of contacts who could get a story to the Sun and Wootton besides Jones. KP is trying to cover their asses. The Sussexes said they have been working on this for months so no mystery why the website was ready to go so quickly. And it’s not finished yet .
I have no opinion — but your post actually made me chuckle. Who BETTER to have your team send an anonymous leak to than a paper you are suing?
I mean…who would ever suspect? It would be a stroke of genius.
See what picture they used of Harry, even though he was in the army and had active duty twice!
Plus I believe they changed the heading to something about unity.
@als yeah the choice of pic made me pase lol
This entire family (aside from some select few individuals) have left me disgusted because they show how money, power and privilege are placed before family. What a horrible example to set for not only your children but the rest of world. And this boy (he’s not a man in my book) will be the head of the CoE. Wow. Where is his compassion and good will? Asses. The lot of them
I think the royals know they have an enfant terrible in Wills and have been placating him his whole life. Throw in Carole Middleton whispering in his ear and they’ve lost control of the future heir. My only hope is that Harry spills the beans on Will one way or the other …. his best bet is probably in the American press once he’s out of England. Maybe give Ronan Farrow a jingle?
I really think William will go nuts. He is increasingly getting more unhinged.
I don’t see harry betraying William unless harry feels he has no other choice.
William plays the role of the evil prince so well, manipulative and driven by jealousy. He is such a Machiavellian character that I wonder why he is left to go unchecked. Does he think it makes him appear more powerful and kingly?
As the youngest sibling of a group of people whom I’ve supported more times than I can count, this statement is exactly the kind of thing I’ve heard before.
The ole’ “I’m the oldest sibling and I’ve done so much for you…in my mind”.
Yup – this is so like my husband’s family. And yes, finally enough was enough, husband has not spoken with his brother in over 5 years. It took being married to someone who supported him to finally stand up to the gaslighting.
Normal Bill really is a terrible person. The dog whistles are deafening. I hope that the British people are taking a good, long look at the person who will be their future King. I’d start working on ending the monarchy after Charles, now.
Boy, Bill’s a bit of a tosser, hey. I’m Team H&M. That is all.
They could have used H and M to usher in a new era in the monarchy. Instead they did this.
YES!!! It’s so pathetic! And crazy that – if the royals involved were clueless – not one of the courtiers could see the forest for the trees and see what an asset Meghan would be for the long term health of the monarchy and CW!
Yep. It’s insane how the royals/the courtiers let their jealousy, unwarranted fears, and misogynoir come to this. If they had just given Meghan more support, if they’d been smart and decided not to unleash a smear campaign, then things would’ve been so different. The attention on her would’ve eventually calmed down and they could’ve utilized her popularity to uplift the entire monarchy. Think of all the goodwill these idiots had after the wedding. They wasted it all because of their racism and pettiness.
I seriously wonder what kinds of things were said and done around the time of the wedding, because Tom Bradby recently said that there were some pretty toxic exchanges that never got resolved.
I wouldn’t be surprised if the conversations were about Meghan’s toxic family. The royals must have figured her family was drawing too much negative attention, which it was. and of course the onslaught continued even after the wedding.
William is incredibly shortsighted. The Queen had to work to get Charles elected (or an agreement to accept him) as Head of the Commonwealth upon her death. All of this crap that’s been thrown at Harry and Meghan, especially Meghan, is undoing decades of goodwill towards the Windsors. Charles is set for his reign. William is in danger of scuttling the entire thing with his narcissism. I’m sure that is in the back of the Queen’s mind because Harry and Meghan are President/Vice President of the Commonwealth. If they are pushed out, what message does that send?
I do wonder what the nuclear option Bradby hinted at is. Some say it’s proof the Queen had Diana killed, which is ridiculous. No way Harry would hang on to that knowledge. He’d have already torched the RF if that was true. And I don’t think it has anything to do with Andrew and the FBI. I think it’s something to do with William. Not just his affairs, but something far more damaging.
I’m gonna bet any deal between the Queen/Charles and Harry has the Sussexes completely independent of William and his reach/influence. Financially supported until the day of Charles’ death. No restrictions on their work, regardless of what the Lamebridges are doing. And the ability to live outside of the U.K.
I think the nuclear option is more than just news of William’s affairs. I suspect it relates to financial issues relating to the foundation and would explain why so many directors recently quit.
Yeah that’s what I was thinking – financial dodginess with the Royal Foundation which has long been rumoured to have tax haven for some of William’s money. Even the auditors said that its not being run properly and there are questions to where the money has gone/going.
Agreed. The audit alone was telling (as was the clear effort by Meghan to protect the Together cookbook funds from being usurped and abused), but the recent resignations point to the possibility of some very questionable financial activity.
President and Vice President of the Commonwealth Trust, not the Commonwealth!
Normal Bill revealing himself to be a toxic brother who communicates better with members of the press to whom he leaks than to his own family. Following Charles pattern, who has thrown both brothers under the bus with the press to suit his ends in the past. Both Normal B and Papa Charles have used the “royal rota” to their own ends.
I think in the course of discovery for the lawsuits H and Ms lawyers found out some damning information on Bill/Charles/Liz. Proof that they are leaky sieves and the means are coming from inside the palaces? Other things? I’d be pretty pissed off too.
Yes, make no mistake this is straight out of Charles’ playbook. He is only quiet now as they have been writing the script of Charles as the jolly king in waiting. And for him to act out now would be to tarnish that well crafted image. This is the modus operandi for the family. Women stay silent and let the men handle things.
Except, I think Liz is doing the same thing with regards to pedo Andy, who we have not been talking about for a few weeks now. There was a news item that his former press secretary got some kind of 6 figure severance package per Lainey the other day. Very little brouhaha about this from the British press OR the British tax payers who are essentially funding this hush money payment to someone who clearly knows many of Andy’s dirty secrets.
But Megan didn’t wear pantyhose one time and likes avocados and as everybody knows that brings us to the brink of global catastrophe (sarcasm mode on).
This story is going to feed the press for decades.
This Guardian article is thoughtful and makes the case that the Sussexes stepping back can be a good thing for the monarchy
Harry and Meghan’s ‘flexi-royal’ plan could modernise monarchy
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2020/jan/12/harry-meghan-flexi-royal-monarchy-modernisation-kate-williams
It seems the royal Family and courtiers are so hung up on tradition and the way things have been done, that they’ve become shortsighted/blind to new ways of doing and looking at things
.
This should have been done with the current children of the monarch but the Queen was never one to think outside the box even as the world is burning. What Harry is doing is helping create something new for Charlotte and Louis as well.
It’s simply more proof that she’s been clinging to the throne for far too long. When your courtiers are essentially running the whole show and blocking your grandson from meeting you, then it’s way past time to step back. She’ll never do it of course.
Beach Dreams: I thought the courtiers had always run the show (maybe I learned that from The Crown). The Firm needs to follow a top-down model, where everyone has their assigned roles and have to meet to discuss them. But instead it’s separate, isolated camps that eye each other with suspicion. There’s an interesting claim in the Daily Mail (I know, I know) about how Princess Anne and Prince Edward called on the Queen to sack her private secretary Sir Edward Young for failing to get a grip on Prince Harry split and Prince Andrew scandal. I agree, he should be fired.
betsyh: Nope, you are right. They’ve definitely been in charge of the operation for a long time. Diana couldn’t stand it and called them the “men in grey”. The problem is that as the Queen gets older and less able to keep track of all of the happenings among the palaces, the courtiers get more emboldened to do what’s in *their* best interests (which is remaining in power). It seems that Charles does not get along with the Queen’s courtiers and plans to kick them out if/when he becomes king. So naturally there’s some animosity between him/his people and her courtiers.
The funny thing about your last comment is that the secretary (Geidt) preceding him was pushed out by Charles and Andrew.
You’d think the Royal Family would seize on this and spin it so it works in their favor. This could actually be an excellent PR opportunity for them if they played it correctly. But they and the courtiers seem so entrenched in the past and tradition they can’t see the forest for the trees.
My thing has always been that sans.all the emotion this thing should have simply been a straightforward transition plan. QEII
to PoW; PoW to DoC; Anne, Camillia, Sophie, Harry and Meghan and Kate = all identified support roles. I also think that given eventual role that he was allowed to linger too long without any real and identifiable interests outside of conservation. W/K & M/H were all trying to onboard at once. That was and is problematic. Too much was at stake for too many people at one time.
Imagine if the relationships hadn’t been so fractured. Each house, as it were, could have come to the table and identified what each was going to do, wanted to do and where the overlap would occur. However, because of lifelong festering woundd, outsourced parenting, egos and jealousy, it spilled over this way.
Thanks for the link. Good article.
The tell-all interview threat is toothless.
Only the BBC could air it and get away with it as anyone else would be blacklisted for life. Charles and especially William would probably retaliate and everyone’s reputation would be destroyed.
I don’t really think a tell-all is likely either…just because it doesn’t seem like something H&M would do. Once they get out, I don’t think they are going to want to open a can of worms.
But thinking that their only option is the BBC is not true. Traditional outlets worldwide are having wet dreams about getting a first interview; and then there is the internet. They have over 10 million followers on Instagram alone. How fast do you think them spilling their guts there would disseminate globally? Again, I don’t personally think they would…oh, but they could.
Both Diana and Charles spilled their guts and it didn’t help their image. The way to go imo is for Harry and Meghan to make a complete break from the royal family and cash in on their fame in very positive ways. I think that Bradby fellow was offside implying Harry and Meghan would expose the RF.
Agreed. I know that certain commenters on here love to push the “he’s a privileged dunce and she’s a C list actress without their precious titles” line, but let’s be real: they have a TON of earning potential. Even the tinhatters realize that, otherwise they wouldn’t be squawking so indignantly about “merching” and “cashing in on their titles”.
Agreed. Outside of some deep financial shenanigans it’s a big meh for me. Does anyone really believe that Harry is going to come out with a laundry list of affairs to destroy his brother’s family and the women/families involved? It’s wishful thinking and doesn’t reflect well on anyone involved.
They didn’t threat for a “tell-all interview.” Roya twisted Tom’s words from his own article. Tom said he had to persuade Harry to do the interview in the first place (they never were going to) and when they did do the interview they were very restrained in their answers to him, so he said that if they truly came prepared for a tell-all interview the RF would look bad. Those words were then taken by Roya to insinuate they are threatening them with going to do an interview if they didn’t get what they want. Let’s not forget how many times the courtiers have threatened H&M. When the initial smear campaign began,there was a threat in Emily A’s article about consequences if they retaliated, oh and who can forget “they will be punished” after they released their statement about stepping back. What about William trying to literally exile them out of the country? The only ones making threats are the other members of the royal family, if there is even a sign of a little resistance from H&M everyone starts jumping down their throats. One thing is clear for sure, Tom knows something and whatever it is, it’s not pretty and makes the RF look really bad.
Thanks for the clarification as that makes so much more sense.
The idea that their only option for a tell-all (if they did one) is the BBC is silly. There is WORLD WIDE interest in them (which is where Williams’s problem with them stems from) and big media corps outside the UK (particularly in the US) are probably chomping at the bit to interview them. Hell, even streaming services like Netflix and Amazon would happily do one. And Harry has already inked a deal with Apple TV+.
We are way past the era of news from one country having to be shared over wire or affiliate TV deal. ITV, Sky and even the BBC not talking about – or showing any clips from – such an interview won’t keep the public (and the globally interested public) ignorant of anything they would say in such an interview.
Do I think they’ll do a tell-all interview? Only as a last resort nuclear option. Which is why I think Harry and Meghan will get the majority of what they are asking for, and be allowed to go. You do not go to the mattresses like this unless you’ve got some kind of leverage. And the very idea that they could give a tell-all if they so desired and blow some sh*t up hints very much that they do.
FYI case in point: Soledad O’Brien has said on twitter that she would love to sit down an interview them. Their option for such a thing has never been limited to the BBC or any other UK tv channel: https://twitter.com/soledadobrien/status/1216513445589331970
What do they gain from an explosive tell all? Sure, they get an up front payment and all of the sensationalism that goes with it…for a couple of weeks?
As I said above, aside from deep financial grift…what does a tell all expose? Racism? Anyone with eyes sees that. An affair? Big deal, man cheats on wife.
Ancient institution that needs to die? See above, most of us see that.
A tell all exposing dirty laundry is not a good look and damages credibility going forward.
Having said that, I will take a couple of days off work, buy a case of wine and be hosting a mud slinging party if it goes down!
@Mrs,
A tell-all doesn’t have to be a *paid* one, especially if it’s with a reputable news source / reporter. (FYI: US reporters don’t pay for interviews. So if they did one with Anderson Cooper, Ronan Farrow or Soledad O’Brien H&M wouldn’t be paid for it).
And as I said, there reason for doing it would be if the RF continue to play games wrt coming up with a solution to them leaving. Just like they played games, giving Harry the run around about sitting down and talking about the plan her wrote up the leave in the first place. Remember, the RF and Countries want to maintain their jobs/influence/status. Anything that could threaten that in any way is not something they want.
And we’re just assuming what the info H&M might have is. It could be something (though with a broad theme of racism and sexism) that *would* threaten people’s standing and jobs.
That said, another reason for an interview would be possibly in conjunction with a possible explosive lawsuit – or bombshell news wrt one of their ongoing lawsuits against the tabs. Though I do think it’s farther down the list option (and one that wouldn’t happen any time soon if it had to happen).
This is so passive aggressive and manipulative. My god he is toxic. Thank the heavens the Royals don’t have any real power anymore cause imagining William as King is frightening! The more info that comes out, the more proud I am of H&M for getting the hell out!
I, for one, am personally offended that Wills thinks the general public is actually stupid enough to buy this horse manure. And I bet he is just pleased as punch with himself, to boot.
And he just can’t stop. There’s a new headline in the last hour that William is also “extremely concerned over his grandmother’s stress levels.” Not their grandmother or the Queen, but HIS grandmother. As he has helped push her stress levels up there he is really something.
At this point, I think it’s probably best to take anything you read with a grain of salt. This is a goldmine for the media and they’re going to milk it for all it’s worth. No one can verify anything that’s being printed or said and half of it is probably being made up to generate clicks. The Royals need to revolve this issue ASAP and get this mess under control.
I think it’s interesting that Normal Bill released this statement of ‘support’ of his brother NOW, when he couldn’t be bothered to do ANYTHING while his brother and sister-in-law were basically under siege by the British press. No statement when his nephew was called a ‘monkey’. No statement when his brother publicly expressed love and support for his only brother. Normal Bill was worried because HE was looking bad in this shitstorm. He’s an awful man.
Exactly. If he truly had his “arm around” his brother his whole life, he would have displayed that when Harry was going through probably one of the worst things in his wife and child being on the receiving end of racist attacks. William is so full of shit.
Now Harry knows how the Americans felt when they fought for their independence.
What a garbage human. I wish someone in the British press would call out his blatant hypocrisy. But we all know that will never happen.
This is one strange situation. Andrew must love the focus shifting away from his pedo/dirty money crimes.
Icky Andrew is sitting real pretty right now, for sure. The sheer madness of it all!
The Guardian just ran an excellent editorial cartoon on this very topic!
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/picture/2020/jan/12/ben-jennings-on-harry-andrew-and-royal-scandals-cartoon
That gave me a good morning laugh! Thanks for posting it.
One of the things that really bugs about this statement is that there’s an implication that Meghan is at fault. The whole I can’t guide my brother anymore of it. Harry struggled with the royal life all his life and chose to marry a non-Stepford wife. Sorry, you didn’t make that same decision, William.
This statement is just so cold and detached, without emotion. The words used…he cares more about the Firm than the people. That’s so sad.
+1 yes! So much yes.
William had to put out a statement, otherwise he ran the risk of being portrayed negatively, Charles is doing the same, the latest news reports them not incandescent with rage, but saddened, supportive, worried about Harry’s mental health. At least they are listening to PR advice as they sound way better this way.
I have been reading the news about this and I don’t understand the self righteousness, like is it ethical or right for HM to be doing this. I guess I think of it like employment negotiation. I try to do the best I can for myself, I’m not concerned if the company can support it or if I make more than others because other people can speak for themselves/ the company can say no. HM seem to want to do what they think is best for them, as they should. Whether it works out like that the future will tell. Truthfully I find it interesting the second hand drama. How will it play out for HM, the royal family overall, the Cambridges (cause more focus on them when HM go part time). I followed a link elsewhere to the schedule for the royals and a brief glance seemed to show the people doing pretty much all the scheduled work this month are Duke Gloucester, Sophie, Edward, Camilla. Yet all the focus is always on Cambridge/ Sussex, I guess looks/ glamor/ youth more important for news clicks.
I am boggled over the fact that this family is still SO BAD at making statements. TRAINWRECK all. That being said many things can be true. William could have warned Harry about marrying Meghan because she could have no idea what a bunch of shit this institution is and how she would have to give up her very soul to join, Harry did get mad because he was in love, William gets mad because how DARE Harry be mad, the wives don’t get along, interfamily bitching begins, yes we have all been there. Distance- than the Royal Family does what it does best NOTHING when the press tears Meghan apart for being a black American. Oh and if you don’t believe this is about class and race with the press, well your an idiot. This mess solely rests on the backs of the RF and their “firm” for not coming out and lending support to Meghan, as someone said, a car ride with the queen and Meghan on the way to church would have spoken volumes. If people can’t see that this family did everything it could to support Andrew who was accused of some horrific crimes and yet ignored Meghan and Harry well they get what they deserve. I don’t believe anyone in this story is all good (Meghan) or all bad (William) I do believe that the press was a vicious racist beast that now one tried to control and this is all on TQ and Charles because they should have.
Harry started to realize what having the role of spare actually means in this family. He thought the protection, PR pushing, and support extended to Will and Charles would be the same for him and his wife, whose nail polish color was the biggest scandal throughout her role as Duchess. Instances where racism and bullying by the press could have been silenced the “firm” was complacent. Instead they chose to protect Andrew who is a literal child molesting monster and yet the uproar about tearing apart the monarchy is solely on two adults deciding whats best for their family. The whole thing is very “how dare you not devote your entire lives to representing us while we continue to let you be abused and vilified and give you nothing in return!”
William has the worst traits of his parents and Harry has the best,I’ve always believed this.
What is happening now is like reliving the separation and divorce of Charles and Diana but this time it’s the children brought up in that mess,what did they think would happen when these young men were raised in a toxic situation?
People tend to repeat patterns in their lives,Harry is the beloved charismatic one like Diana and William is the one closer to the throne,and cold hearted, and will make his brother look bad as Charles did to Di,it’s all they know.
So true and what is so maddening is that William is trying to paint Harry as flat-out crazy, just as his father did to Diana. Doing so is an attempt, in part, to undermine the validity of Harry’s concerns, thoughts, actions and feelings. Sadly, a lot of people believed the storyline that Charles was pushing back in the day that Diana was just a crazy, unbalanced, selfish witch. Unfortunately, sources are now even saying that the Queen is concerned for “fragile” Harry.
That statement pretty much confirms for me William is an idiot but he thinks he is a PR genius. Shruggate from Kate shows that she can be pretty disgusted with William (whether it’s because he is hurting her or others). Good King material there.
HM are right to discuss this before William becomes King. When that time comes, Harry’s entire family will get thrown under the bus more often to make William’s family look good, believe you me.
I do hope the monarchy is over before that happens. If it wasn’t for Brexit it actually might have happened – making Liz the last of the rulers. Whatever that really means. They make no sense. A president, with only the role of an ambassador would be more usefull than these people. And I’ve now become to see everything presented in the Crown in a different light. I know it’s a soap in a way, but yeah I now think that they portraied the Queen pretty good if anyone reads between the lines.
In Bradby’s own Times article he suggests that tensions started around the wedding because of things/said& done and that if revealed
could make the royal family look bad internationally. Very curious what happened seeing as all reports about pre wedding tensions (eg William asked if Harry was sure) have danced around it.
Would never have guessed Harry and William had problems at the wedding. William seemed so sweet calming Harry down. I still can’t believe all the drama that’s happened since the wedding week.
Anyway Dan Wooten just tweeted that he thinks Queen will give the Sussexes what they want based on that ‘nuclear’ threat. He’s definitely got insiders in the palace& given that Harry is suing his paper- doesn’t make sense that the Sussexes would leak to him.
I posted a few days ago here that H&M have hard evidence that William and his camp have been feeding stories to the British tabs and will more than likely get most of what they’re asking for.
Prediction: Prince Charles just may be the Last King of England.
You also mentioned Pippa. I can see her getting in on it for a variety of reasons – including keeping her father-in-law out of the news.
What would ‘hard evidence’ entail?
I would agree with that prediction too but I wish that it ended with QEII. Charles is just as complicit as the rest of them.
@Anon, does the last king or queen get to pick up all their toys and go home? Does that person get the estates, all the money, the jewels etc? Could the Monarch just say screw you, let’s abolish the monarchy and I’m taking everything, bye! If so, and William ever does become king, I could see him pulling a stunt like that – of course, only after he bestows dukedoms upon PA Middleton and James Matthews!
By the way I appreciated your input over the last several days on this issue!
They get the private cash and private estates (Balmoral, Sandringham). Not the Duchies and none of palaces or the portion of the jewels considered property of The Crown. Ex. The Greville bequest, including the massive emerald necklace the Queen wore a few weeks ago is private property. All tax protections would be removed from HM, Charles, William in inheriting that wealth.
Yes! I commented on that earlier and it’s so curious. Bradby even said that the courtiers were worried that whatever happened could be used to brand the BRF racist and sexist. The thing is, he didn’t go into detail and kept his comments very broad. It could involve William, or it could involve other members (I’m sorry but Kate looked quite unpleasant that day and I don’t think it’s just down to her having recently given birth). The royals are good at putting on a show, so I wouldn’t be surprised if William and Harry decided to put their issues aside for the big day.
anon: I saw your comment that day and I really hope you’re right because what Meghan in particular has gone through (especially during her pregnancy and FIRST TIME as a mother) has been truly appalling. I hope the Sussexes get what they need and want (especially proper security)…and I do hope the monarchy ends in the near future.
My guess is that various members of the BRF made blatantly racist comments (not veiled, I mean blatant) around the time of the engagement/wedding planning, and that Harry is threatening to expose them.
The monarchy is and always has been racist. There is nothing surprising about that. Just look at their history. That’s why they should be abolished altogether.
I’m not buying this line of BS.
I don’t know who’s advising either one of them, but this is just another log on an already gigantic fire. For example, instead of going to the Times, why couldn’t this MoFu get on the phone and actually *talk* to his brother, rather than hashing this out in a carefully orchestrated (read: manipulative) effort to portray Harry as a “mental black sheep” who has been saved “throughout their lives” by this doofus? The same doofus, by the way, who cheated on his wife and acts like an asshole to her and his staff.
Harry’s definitely not a black sheep. And, as I pointed out yesterday, Tom Bradby is already dropping hints that H&M could do a full-on sit down, all cards on the table interview if this keeps up.
I called it.
Doing to his brother what his dad did to his mother,using the mental instability line…
William is using the media as a weapon against his brother and the media used Meghan’s family as a weapon against her. It’s just madness all around. Why are they letting this play out in public.
It was Tom Bradby hinting they could (not “would” but “COULD”) do a full sit down and essentially blow some sh*t up if they did so, which had me thinking back to your post @anon. That’s when I knew for sure they had some damn air-tight proof of something and were going to use it as leverage.
And you don’t use something as leverage unless you are fully prepared to unleash it. And I 100% think Harry (and Meghan) are.
The ladies of The View of all places said it best: becoming a parent can change you. I think Harry looks at Archie and can see what his life will likely be like if they stay after all of this and he does NOT want that for his son. IMO there were already hints of people (Willia?, The Middletons? The Courtiers?) wanting to put Archie “in his place” with those nonsensical articles about him being a spoiled brat – at 8 months old! – and how he needed to spend time with his Cambridge Cousins to not be so.
So if you DON’T think Harry will use what he knows to do what he must for his wife but especially his son well . . . did you see the lawsuits against the tabloids coming? (They will never be dropped or settled out of court BTW). Did you see them leaving together coming? (I and many others did). You can’t do something like this half-ass. You are either all-in or all-out.
Well, the more William fumbles the ball with these dumb planted stories, the more douchey, ham-handed and racist he looks in front of the entire planet.
All 53 of the Commonwealth countries are looking at him and the BRF right now and shaking their heads in sorrow for fucking up the only good thing they have ever done. Truly, it’s a GD shame. And for what?
Nothing but pure. fucking. jealousy. (Oh, and let’s not forget a hefty dose of unbridled racism.)
What a little, little man William has turned out to be. I hope nothing but the best for H&M. I sincerely hope they can weather this storm.
@anon
In my ideal scenario, the moment H&M are safely away in Canada or somewhere, a large swath of the Commonwealth countries that have black and brown people begin to make moves to leave. I already think the UK won’t exist as is thanks to Brexit (I’ll be shocked if Scotland is still a part of it in 10 years), but the Commonwealth being barely a glint of a number by then would be the icing on the cake.
Empires always shrink into nothing as they end. And I really do believe that is what we are witnessing here.
The Commonwealth may still exist, as it is an economic partnership of 50+ countries, only a handful of whom have the UK monarch as Head. That subset may dump the UK monarch.
What makes me sad is what a boob William has turned out to be.
Yes, me too @Boo.
Karma would be H&M receiving a large enough settlement from their media lawsuits to fund their independent lifestyle. So, in the end, the British media ends up driving them out but also being the ones to finance their exit. Perfect karma.
That would just be *chef kiss* I love it.
That would just be the ultimate poetic justice.
That and a strict media code governing coverage by those tabloids moving forward.
I don’t doubt that both William and Harry have unresolved issues regarding their mother’s death. It is only natural that, as they marry and start families, more emotions would be stirred up and they would think about all Diana is missing: celebrating their weddings, spoiling grandchildren, etc., so I do think the mental health of both brothers should be something to deal with and not swept under the rug.
I do think Harry is the brother that has done the supporting all their lives, growing up with the knowledge that William is the FFK and he is just a spare. I also believe Harry tried to make Kate welcome in the family and was willing to let the Cambridges shine. But he also probably at least hoped William would support him and Meghan. However, the Cambridges not only didn’t support or defend the Sussexes, they (at least William) leaked stories to make themselves look better and the Sussexes worse. William does not now get to play the long-suffering hero of this story. I’m not saying H&M are saints, but they are victims and I think they are brave for trying to do what’s best for their marriage and child. Yes, it is unprecedented, but the BRF hasn’t survived this long without learning to adapt somewhat. And, as the concept of royalty becomes more outdated (if not entirely abolished), this issue will most likely come up again in George’s generation and that of his future children.
When Kate had just come on to the scene as part of the family it was clear Harry went above and beyond to make her feel welcome and establish a good relationship. He no doubt expected the same from his family but especially his brother and wife (who went through a lot of the same struggles Meghan was going to face marrying in). He really really thought they would stand behind he and Meghan, and that the protection of the BRF would extend to his wife like it has done to Kate so many times. The statements that have just come out from Will and the queens “disappointment” shows he was so wrong and he wants no part of this for his son. Will doesn’t get that if he was supportive of his brother in the first place, all of this wouldn’t be happening. You’re right that this will come up again within George’s generation as has been proven time and time again in this family, it’s really sad to see.
Even with the most charitable reading of this possible, that William sincerely believes that he has always supported Harry and is anguished that he feels that Harry is making it impossible for William to continue to do so, in what universe is the best way to convey that message to tell the literal ENTIRE WORLD, “I wash my hands of this”?
William – a word of wisdom if your able to absorb it: When you try to ruin someone for revenge, jealousy and attention it will always come at a cost.
He doesn’t realize this yet. This is a TRAGEDY.
I think Tom Bradby needs to be quiet. He is making things worse, In my opinion. He said he asked them to do a documentary. Harry and Meghan wanted it to be just their African tour and causes. Tom had to keep convincing them to talk about their struggles and they eventually agreed. He is everywhere talking about this and it’s annoying.
Agreed. He pushed them into talking about the issues with the RF.
He’ll probably write a book.
Charles should have done better by BOTH his boys. I like Charles and I think he’ll be a good king but THIS is on him. He has a bad relationship with his brothers and he should have impressed on his sons how important your siblings are, because they’re the only ones who knows what your life is like.
William and Harry walked behind their mother’s casket, while the whole watched, hoping for a tear or any sign of emotion. William kept his head down, refusing to give the mob what it hungered for. Harry is the only other person on earth who knows what that felt like. There’s going to come a time when William is going to need his brother. Harry seems to be a warm-hearted person but a broken heart never really heals. William broke his brother’s heart. SHAME ON HIM.
I genuinely think he just does not know how to and so he does nothing. That whole family is plagued by being extremely emotionally stunted and there will always be the strained relationship between heir and spare as long as the monarchy stays a “thing”. These are people who have to make appointments to speak with their own family members, the boys were doomed the second their mother passed.
The family dynamic is tied up in a very formal hierarchy – they have a whole protocol about who has to curtsy to whom! It is no wonder that they and their relationships are extremely fucked up.
I disagree. Charles cannot be responsible for the way his son’s are behaving now, it’s not like he beat them when they were children.
In my opinion, Diana would be very disappointed. She always wanted Harry to be a support to William, and it would break her heart that her sons aren’t getting along.
Harrys job in life should not be to support his brother. What ridiculousness!
Diana forced that ‘you must support William’ on Harry when he was a child. She did plenty of her own damage to Harry’s mental health with that. He spent years being the scapegoat because his late mother extracted that abusive promise out of him.
Check this article about modernising the monarchy so it is more like other European models:
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2020/jan/12/harry-meghan-flexi-royal-monarchy-modernisation-kate-williams
Nearly ALL of the Queen’s grandchildren work – and do engagements at HM’s discretion – as part of a decade of effort to slim down the institution. That the British public can be so easily hoodwinked – by their own racism – is depressing.
They do not to engagements at HM’s discretion, nor do they receive taxpayer funded housing or security.
The closest version of this is the hybrid with Prince Michael of Kent which happened by accident. He and his wife earn money as writers, as a designer. He wasn’t supposed to be a working royal, his wife isn’t technically a working royal. They do some engagements but it is voluntary, technically not officially. They were (illegally?) given almost free housing at KP anyway until a tabloid found out. After that, they pay ‘market rent’ but their status as are-they-aren’t-they has never been clarified.
HM likes gray area. She hid one of her Bowes-Lyon cousins in an apartment at KP, and her cousin Margaret Rhodes in a cottage at Windsor.
“unreachable” simply means “I can’t control him anymore”….WIlliam the Ass is the one that is unhinged and mentally unstable.
I thought it was interesting in the original article, it doesn’t say Prince William gave them a statement. He was talking to a “friend” when he said all that, I guess trying to give himself some plausible deniability or something, but I don’t think we normally get quotes like this from the royals. I mean, obviously this was sanctioned by him. But is the reporter the friend? Is the friend a courtier or just made up? So many questions about this one little detail, mostly because it’s a change in strategy. Like obviously leaks were coming from him/his office but this was much more direct. I find it fascinating how each camp is getting their side out there, because you know none of the real information is getting out without permission. Normally I think they try to keep most of this behind closed doors.
Yeah, his friend WOOTEN. Wooten has bragged that he has Kate and William’s cell phone numbers.
God he’s so passive aggressive. Okay William where was your arm when your sister-in-law was getting abused? When people were calling your nephew a doll?
When and why did someone call Archie a doll?
I believe that reference is to gossip that Archie is not really Megan’s baby and that initially they were just holding a doll. They do have every reason to be pissed about the headline proclaiming that Archie is going to be a “spoiled brat” if he doesn’t play with his cousins. Seriously, that was printed in a tabloid!
When and why did someone call Archie a doll?
Nevermind, I don’t even want to know.
This whole situation is so upsetting, ridiculous, and unnecessary, I might need to detach with love. Meghan and Harry, I admire you and support you in doing the best thing for yourselves and Archie.
We see you, Bill, Chuck, and Liz. This could’ve gone so well for you, but you had to f it up. And you tried to protect ANDY?
Immon peace outta this toxic mess for awhile.
Love y’all. 💖
You could collect the self-awareness of the royal family (and its retainers) in a thimble.
Point #1 IMHO the fundamental issue is that they are a monarchy rather than a meritocracy. With a monarchy, everything comes down about birth order. Everyone is invested in preserving the status quo, i.e. the idea that one family is endowed with special powers and privileges by God, and that God determines who sits on the throne by birth order (and until recently, gender). I’d even argue that their entire modus operandi rests on predestination rather than free will. It is (has been) out-of-date since about the late 1770s. Let me offer some what ifs as evidence:
* How much better would England have been served if George (QEII’s father) has always been in line before Edward VIII?
* What if Anne were ahead of Charles?
* Henry before Will?
Point #2
I do wonder why inherent bias is so difficult to “prove” to the unaware. Here on CB we’ve had any number of insightful commentators suggest apples-to-apples comparisons which provide ample opportunity for cognitive dissonance. Wouldn’t any number of these instances to help the unaware recognize their complicity?
* Why is KW lauded and MW vilified for doing the same thing?
* Or WW and HW? One did military service; the other did not. One gets to wear his uniform and the other…is discouraged from doing so?
Point #3
When Diana died, Harry went into therapy, and he seems to have kept up the practice. You can tell by the way he deals with things that he has come through the trauma as a stronger, more self-actualized person. For example, he seems genuinely invested in the happiness of others, of encouraging their development. He started the Invictus Games. He seems intent on giving up his abusive relatives despite the financial and social disincentives.
Meanwhile I see few signs of the same being true of WW. He seems oblivious to large parts of his own psyche, how he appears to others, his impact on their well being, etc. He lacks focus, specially bouncing from job to job even though he is nearing 40. He works very little, failing to even qualify as a helicopter pilot. https://www.thelondonhelicopter.com/how-to-get-your-helicopter-licence/ He is content to float on good will born of shared grief following his mother’s death. Some thought questions:
* What endeavors, if anything, has WW initiated, shepherded and seen through to completion?
* Of those, which did not benefit WW? Or WW’s future royal aspirations?
* When, where and how does WW give of himself – selflessly and wholeheartedly?
* Why would the British people trust this man to lead them (even as a ceremonial head)?
Interesting that aside from the vague “they,” Meghan is nowhere to be found in William’s statement.
Because nobody ever called Kate’s baby a chimpanzee.
This clearly didn’t bring the sympathy the RF were expecting, because they suddenly changed the headline to something about playing on the same team. How much more obvious could they make it that they are working with the RR to paint a narrative that is damaging to the Sussexes?
The more I read these personal anecdotes from family, the more I roll my eyes. Theres a few roundups out there of all the times Harry has “insulted” family members since meeting Meghan, and all of them would be non stories for any other family. Especially any about Harry using his preffered archbishop for the wedding or using their own florist and cake makers. Or the Queen actually having to contact Harry instead of him calling her first. Or Harry not living with/working beside K&W now that he has his own family.
These people have very clearly remained silent while his wife and child are dragged and threatened in the media, and we get a million stories about Harry being a prat because didnt use the Queens staff for his own wedding. All of these stories just make them look like robots who care more about tradition than family. I’d bail too.
Anyone else notice how in the article/ statement Harry is referred to as “Harry” and Meghan is referred to as… “Markle”? Repeatedly?
WTF?
“Harry and Markle” ?
i am missing some convention about how these things work in the UK or something, but… are people not supposed to be on a first-name basis with her anymore, as a royal and a celebrity? It seems really bizarre, lopsided, and alienating.
It’s because to them she is already out of the picture. Notice how many articles talk about Meghan left “her” son in Canada or she returned to “her” son as if Harry is not equally his parent. They are already planning for Harry to divorce Meghan and come running back to the fold.
god, that would make me so, so sad.
HANG IN THERE GUYS
* i realize it’s ridiculous to address them like that 😉 , but i find myself caring more about this story than i usually do with any of the royals. it’s just so damn unfair, hypocritical, disgusting how they’ve been treated… it feels like there are bigger societal issues (rampant, jaw-dropping racism, the outdatedness of monarchy in government, the role of the media in shaping ppl’s perceptions) at stake than just their family. man, the pressure on harry and meghan; i suppose they know how symbolic they are, and no, that isn’t fair at all…
Eh, many still refer to the other one as Middleton so I’m not sure I read that much into it.
On second thought, it is indicative of the notion that they are both nothing unless it relates to their Royal husbands, so yes…it is rude as hell.
Referring to Harry by his first name but not Meghan is depersonalizing. And so, so obvious.
It’s like the contrast between the two photos. They are pushing hard on their narrative.
Do they refer to the others as “William and Middleton” in the same breath?
Never, because “Middleton” is valued.
With Carole feeding so much to the tabloids through the years, of course the tabloids value ‘Middleton’
I can’t help but contrast Harry’s statement in the documentary of how no matter what they will always be brothers and how he loves him dearly and will always have his back to William’s lame “I can’t “ and “I’m sad”. To me that sums up William in a nutshell. Why is he acting like the wounded victim when he has been trying to drive out Meghan and push Harry to the back for the last two years?
It has always been said that Harry is the nicer, kinder brother.
Kaiser’s spot on. May I suggest another scenario- William is taking a victory lap. He started a one-sided war of attrition against his brother and later his wife because they will not do as they were told.
This statement is for the Sussexes- “Do as you are told, and you will be allowed to return. ”
It also exposes him to be a petty, selfish sniveling backstabber.
His weapon in this fight has been the tabloid press +.
His wife has been a willing participant because like her husband , she does not like anyone else to have the spotlight even on a temporary basis.
Exhibit one – the aristocratic Rose who was born, bred and married in that class unlike the commoner Kate Middleton. I digress from the popular notion of adultry being the problem- her husband has been known to be a wanderlust romantically. They got married anyway.
It is alleged that she severed ties with her sister-in-law the last six months while they copied and tried to present a better version of the Sussexes.
Her ambitious mother provides dirt anf access for favourable coverage.
Several reports claim that the Wales brothers had differences (as siblings do ) and the Christopher Geist was always able to provide a solution, unlike their father. He was removed 2 years ago and the petulant brat now rules the roost. Now that he has ‘won’ the one-sided war, he will be looking for a new enemy not to mention his fear of the
Sussexes being King and Queen of Canada. (This man will be King one day and does not know how the process of having the Queen’s representative. )
He really feels all he have to do is selfishly and wilfully control his brother’s life. That will make him a leader.
Since Harry and Meghan has removed the band aid from the festering wound, the rot in the BRF is apparent and the dishonest and ignorant press has become a trigger to Prince Harry’s past trauma.
Somebody should let William aware that his brother’s popularity is due to his kindness, generosity of spirit and attention to his royal duties – in contrast to the tightly wound calmness with a simmering rage?
Kaiser’s spot on. May I suggest another scenario- William is taking a victory lap. He started a one-sided war of attrition against his brother and later his because they will not do as they were told.
This statement is for the Sussexes- “Do as you are told, and you will be allowed to return. ”
It also exposes him to be a petty, sniveling backstabber.
His weapon in this fight has been the tabloid press +.
His wife has been a willing participant because like her husband, she does not like anyone else to have the spotlight even on a temporary basis.
Exhibit one – the aristocratic Rose who was born, bred and married in that class unlike the commoner Kate Middleton. I digress from the popular notion of adultry being the problem- her paramour has been known to be a wanderlust romantically. They got married anyway. Most likely is Rose’s ascent as the top “toff”.
It is alleged that she severed ties with her sister-in-law from WhatsApp the last six months while they copied and tried to present a better version of the Sussexes.
Her ambitious mother provides dirt anf access for favourable coverage.
Several reports claim that the Wales brothers had differences (as siblings do ) and the Christopher Geist was always able to provide a solution, unlike their father. He was removed 2 years ago and the petulant brat now rules the roost. Now that he has ‘won’ the one-sided war, he will be looking for a new enemy not to mention his fear of the
Sussexes being King and Queen of Canada. (This man will be King one day and does not know how the process of having the Queen’s representative. )
He really feels all he have to do is selfishly and wilfully control his brother’s life. That will make him a leader.
Since Harry and Meghan has removed the band aid from the festering wound, the rot in the BRF is apparent and the dishonest and ignorant press has become a trigger to Prince Harry’s past trauma.
Somebody should let William aware that his brother’s popularity is due to his kindness, generosity of spirit and attention to his royal duties – in contrast to the tightly wound calmness with a simmering rage?
Kaiser’s spot on. May I suggest another scenario- William is taking a victory lap. He started a one-sided war of attrition against his brother and later his because they will not do as they were told.
This statement is for the Sussexes- “Do as you are told, and you will be allowed to return. ”
It also exposes him to be a petty, sniveling backstabber.
His weapon in this fight has been the tabloid press +.
His wife has been a willing participant because like her husband, she does not like anyone else to have the spotlight even on a temporary basis.
Exhibit one – the aristocratic Rose who was born, bred and married in that class unlike the commoner Kate Middleton. I digress from the popular notion of adultry being the problem- her paramour has been known to be a wanderlust romantically. They got married anyway. Most likely is Rose’s ascent as the top “toff”.
It is alleged that she severed ties with her sister-in-law from WhatsApp the last six months while they copied and tried to present a better version of the Sussexes.
Her ambitious mother provides dirt anf access for favourable coverage.
Several reports claim that the Wales brothers had differences (as siblings do ) and the Christopher Geist was always able to provide a solution, unlike their father. He was removed 2 years ago and the petulant brat now rules the roost. Now that he has ‘won’ the one-sided war, he will be looking for a new enemy not to mention his fear of the
Sussexes being King and Queen of Canada. (This man will be King one day and does not know how the process of having the Queen’s representative. )
He really feels all he have to do is selfishly and wilfully control his brother’s life. That will make him a leader.
Since Harry and Meghan has removed the band aid from the festering wound, the rot in the BRF is apparent not-to-mention the dishonest and ignorant press has become a trigger to Prince Harry’s past trauma.
Somebody should let William aware that his brother’s popularity is due to his kindness, generosity of spirit and attention to his royal duties – in contrast to the tightly wound calmness with a simmering rage?
Hi Billy!
So William is the heir to the British throne and this is the best he can do in a crisis with his own flesh and blood? What then, when he is confronted with a national crisis when (or, let’s face it, at this rate it’s a BIG IF) he becomes king? “Sorry, I just can’t do it anymore”?
Do what, precisely? What exactly has William done for the United Kingdom?
For all his planted stories meant to show that he is “preparing for the throne,” this is a dark harbinger of things to come.
I fear for his children, his father and for the United Kingdom.
Well, since you seem to be clairvoyant and can see into the future, can you let us know who’ll be the next U.S. President?
Edit: this was a reply to a post that has been deleted
How is he able to talk out of both sides of his mouth with that vice grip TMJ jaw of his
Translation…you need to stop complaining about how I treat you terribly or I will have to treat you worse. Will would have fit in better a few hundred years ago. The royal family seems to still feel entitled to diminish and trample on brown people in the same way they did 100 years ago. To be used and discarded mocked and humiliated. The original colonizers. I would run away from these people too.
The Royal Family is, was and always will be a complete clusterfuck. The mere stupidity of granting a person a kingdom, based solely on their birth order is the most absurd way to run run a country!
Evil is everywhere. So many people I have talked to say why can’t they leave this couple alone. I said because when you have evil minds., hearts, and souls you beget true evil in its truest form. I did read somewhere that they probably get most of what they want. One of Harry’s friends said it best- what Harry is doing is being a father and husband first. He sees how the hurting has affected his family. He wants to be able to look his son in the eye and tell him why he took the actions he did to protect him and his mother. Whether Harry used this friend to send a message I don’t know. Anybody with any intellect knows if you abuse his wife constantly now God knows how you are going to treat his son in the future.
One of the most troubling comments I read came from a woman. She basically said Meghan should take the abuse just as Diana, Camilla and Kate did. That should cause a women to pause. I will say this, it says a lot about Harry. He’s the ONLY Windsor male that stood up for his wife.
Well some ppl have always said Harry was the best of them. So this all tracks.
Just a small thing and maybe commented on upthread, but why the use of ”Markle” in the article for Meghan? It’s used three times and I thought that, that is no longer her name?
And about William, I just hope that like Andrew (in the interview), William will continue to expose himself and show his true colors.
Harry does not want his arm, HE WANTS THE CLEAR SHOT AT THE CROWN HE WAS BORN WITH. If he is not going to have that, then what’s the point of spending the rest of his life as a professional royal, which is basically a really glam “Miss America” and British tabloid target? He will live on an allowance, have all of his movements and choices approved or disapproved by his Grandmother, Father, Then Brother, then his damn nieces and nephews. Let that sink in. Then there is Poor Megan who is already being attacked like his mother, for even more malicious reasons, who has worked her whole life, cultivated a talent, and now has to professionally stand there beside a man and smile and take it.
If William really cared about harry, the future King would have stepped up and defended his brothers choices and his wife, but nope, nothing.
Let that man live his own life, he is trying to work with them , which is much more than I would have done.