“Royal commentator” Penny Junor has been around a long time. She’s always talking sh-t about someone, usually the Duke and Duchess of Sussex, but not exclusively so. She recently said some shady things about William and Kate copying the Sussexes’ playbook, which was pretty funny. I also heard a weird rumor – which I won’t repeat – about why Junor is such a big fan of Prince Charles. That’s how her commentary should be read though – Junor providing the most sympathetic portrayal of Charles, at the expense of everyone else. Which is why her comments to the Daily Mail are so… odd.
Meghan and Harry ‘lobbed a huge bomb into the heart of the institution’ with their bombshell accusations to Oprah Winfrey, a royal expert has claimed. Royal biographer Penny Junor also said the couple betrayed the royal family and caused lasting damage to the monarchy in the year since they quit as senior royals.
Ms Junor said: ‘When Harry and Meghan left a year ago people were surprised and disappointed because they were a great pair. Harry was a hugely-popular royal and Meghan was a great asset to the family. A year on, I think a lot of people are really angry and think that they have betrayed their family and lobbed a huge bomb into the heart of the institution and sort of taken a swipe at the UK as well.’
Ms Junor described the crisis as worse than the abdication of Edward VIII.
‘The circumstances are very different. Edward VIII was pushed out, whereas Harry and Meghan chose to leave – but I think this is more damaging,’ she said. ‘It looked as if Edward’s abdication was going to damage the monarchy, but in fact, it didn’t because his brother was ready to step into his shoes, and George VI did a really good job and restored the reputation of the monarchy.’
She added of the Oprah interview: ‘These are really terrible accusations that will stick.’
Ms Junor suggested that King’s disclosure would have an indelible impact on Harry’s relationship with his family. ‘The fact that the gist of that conversation was broadcast is a terrible betrayal of trust. I don’t know how the whole problem will be resolved because Harry has demonstrated that he’s not trustworthy, and that if the royal family make any approach to him, if he doesn’t like what they say, the chances are it’s going to be on global television.’
Is she actually saying what I think she’s saying? “The circumstances are very different. Edward VIII was pushed out, whereas Harry and Meghan chose to leave – but I think this is more damaging…It looked as if Edward’s abdication was going to damage the monarchy, but in fact, it didn’t because his brother was ready to step into his shoes.” So… why is the Sussexit worse than the abdication again? Is it because the sixth in line to the throne leaving behind a toxic, abusive soap opera has suddenly shed light on how Charles and William are incapable of being kings? That they needed Harry to hide behind and abuse and the whole house of cards is falling apart in his absence? That seems to be what she’s saying, rather bizarrely. I guess she could be speaking about William specifically and not Charles – as in, William isn’t capable of being king without his brother there to hide behind. Also, these people continue to be mega-salty about the very IDEA that Harry and Meghan could choose to call them out at any moment, that H&M have their own voices, their own team, their own media base. LOL.
Photos courtesy of Avalon Red, WENN, Backgrid.
Yes, silly Penny. Harry is not only merely sixth in line to the throne now—when the Cambridge sprogs reproduce he’ll be full back of the field.
That whole Penny Junor article was just weird.
Most people, in the UK and USA, realize that it really makes no difference what Harry does or does not due as he has five people in front of him for the throne.
Edward and Wallace visited Hitler and even gave him the Nazi salute. Let’s not put outing the BRF as racist on Meghan and Harry. They have been displaying their overt racism for 1,000 years.
Mac
And that the U.K. and BRF with parliament very much wanted to be left out of it as there were deals made. Churchill was a persistent voice of reason and justice.
Prince of Wales and Wallis-Simpson were doing what many others were in regards to nazi sympathizing, but never got whitewashed.
Is she saying that the irrelevant 6th in line and his wife has more power than the whole family combined? With the abdication the British press’s invisible contract with the RF was in high gear. This time round, there is no hiding place for the RF. The Sussexes are global whilst the BM are seen for what they really are. That reporters like herself who tortured Diana are trying to do so to her son and his wife is appalling and she should be thoroughly ashamed of herself.
Pretty much….which is why they’ve spent the better part of a year talking about how irrelevant they are, but, just can’t seem to get past their divorce from them.
We just spent the past year being told constantly how irrelevant Harry was. Now, his departure was worse than the abdication? Lol
I guess that now that they’ve seen how wildly popular and successful the Sussexes are in the US, they needed to switch up the narrative?
But this actually makes them seem *more* pathetic, though, no? It wouldn’t matter how fabulously Harry was doing in America if he was irrelevant in the UK to begin with.
They’re so desperate; it’s like watching chickens with no heads running around.
Exactly. It’s either always “Harry is irrelevant as 6th in line” or “Well he’s *only* 6th in line so he’s damaged the monarchy!!”
Agreed, but what I focused on was the notion that ‘Harry’ can’t be trusted ‘if’ there are further conversations because the fear is that he’ll spill everything on TV. That is so rich because spilling private things about the Sussexes to the media is what all three Palaces have done for the past three years. Harry didn’t want to put his and Meghan’s plans about stepping back in writing because he knew it would get leaked. And it got leaked.
This whole gaslighting thing of ‘it’s not us, it’s ‘you’ and ‘we’ didn’t do that, ‘you’ did’ game the Royal Family has going on with the Sussexes is getting sicker by the week. If they don’t matter, why put all the energy into discrediting them and the PR stunts to embiggen Wills and Kate?
This is like a company claiming that the deficit on their balance sheet was due to their HR manager retiring.
Junor is an unpleasant woman. Firstly, the Sussexes were PUSHED out. Secondly, how DARE she say that Harry is untrustworthy when she knows very well how much negative information has been purposefully been leaked from KP.
The Cambridges over the next few decades are going to have have a rocky ride…..How much longer can William keep up all the pretence, even if some people at all costs to save the monarchy will defend and protect him….sooner or later someone else will spill…..
This just goes how deeply inappropriate the ractchets perception of Harry is. They truly believe they own him in a way they didn’t own Charles siblings or even Margaret. Maybe it was because he was Diana’s boy, maybe it was the women ratchets taking the place of his “mother” in their own heads, maybe it’s because they always knew that William really always meant “WilliamandHarry” and Harry never existed to them as an individual entity. But their ownership sensibility of him is beyond toxic. If they were real journalists with ethics and standards, they would be hauled in front of HR for inappropriate behavior–it’s been a while since I was in a journalism class, but you are NOT supposed to involve yourself in journalistic stories–it’s a breach of ethics as well as a breach of professionalism. These ratchets have taken all of this Sussexit business personally in a way that’s beyond absurd. They are professional stalkers at this point.
It’s all you said but they are deeply upset because Harry chose someone who they feel is not worthy of him. They grew up with disney princesses who do not look like Meghan. They know he is the more fun, caring and personable of the brothers. There is also the deep seated envy, resentment and jealousy of a black woman being admitted to that inner sanctum, being treated well and whose children are now part of the royal bloodline.
I wish all of the “royal experts” would be asked what exactly their qualifications were before television and print news outlets aired their opinions. Because it seems to me that most of them are only there due to luck and/or connections — they all spout off constantly without anything to back up their claims.
Same with the “journalists” — for example, does someone like Emily Andrews actually have a degree in journalism? Was she even a journalism major at a reputable university? I’m just using her as an example, but I’m curious about all of them, especially the members of the ROTA.
I think that hilarious video of so many of the “experts” giving their opinions about the Oprah interview before it even aired did a LOT of damage to the racket they have going, and exposed just how much of it is total bullsh!t.
Penny is the “ expert” rumoured to have given Charles a bj back in the 70s. That is her alleged qualification.
All that is required is an English accent, time spent somewhere in the UK, a mean nasty racist disposition, and you It. In other words no qualifications at all.
Great comment, LANNE. Totally agree. There’s seriously, unprofessional stalking going on towards the Sussexes. And, NIC919, I’ve heard that rumor about KNEEPADS Penny and Charles too. 😈 Penny is all about ‘service to the Crown’.
And the sixth in line living a private life is more devastating to the monarchy then Prince Andrew and all his squirlyness? PLEASE.
Are these people sane? it has been a year since H7M left and looking at the investment they made, there is no coming back.
I remember some folks saying that Charles might have other plans but as we all heard, H has a serious pb with his father
I support Meghan first and foremost; H as well by association as she is the one taking the blame for his own decisions; but if he ever wants to go back to being a working royal whether part time or not, he can go by himself. I hope Meghan, Archie & hopefully Meghan mini-me remain in the US; we have our problems here but the amount of vitriol those biracial people will receive in the UK will be unreal!
X1000000000000!!!
I don’t want them to go back. I love having them here. When I look at pictures of Meghan from those days, in subdued colors, standing in back, trying to suppress her own shine, just no.
Mixed feelings about the claim of how it impacts the monarchy. It’s total crap to put that guilt on Harry. OTOH, I sort of love the idea that this is the thing that brings down the monarchy.
Yes, for the most part, people in this country have treated them well. Please Duchess Meghan, keep little cute Archie and his baby sister on these shores.
@VS I’m truly so confused as to why so many of them talk as if there’s a real chance he’s going to go back to the UK and especially the BRF. Do they really believe that?
Even if the contracts with Netflix & Spotify tanked and they had to downsize or whatever, he’s not going back.
Even if down the line something happens and he and Meghan get divorced, he STILL would not come back. His family is Meghan and his children and he will be where they are, no matter what.
How much clearer can he make it? What don’t they understand here? The only explanation is that they’re still in the denial phase, but it’s been over a year! They need to get a grip.
The fact that the Sussexit is considered worst than the abdication, and nobody talks about Pedo Andrew only proves how useless and outdated the institution is.
Exactly…….H&M leaving is worse than having a pedo hiding behind the queen’s skirt
I mean Edward VIII was a nazi and the remaining ruling family racist, Andrew a pedo but yes Sussexit is more damaging than those things.
I’m glad someone here said it. The whole abdication “story” is insane – The man was king of the country that invented royal divorce and a whole religion to legitimize the divorce but marrying a divorced woman is a bridge too far? Puh-lease.
Also can they stop not so subtly comparing a hard working woman of color to the actual nazi that was Wallis Simpson? Its just so gross.
The divorcee thing was an excuse. The UK Govt wanted rid of Edward VIII. He was a dangerous loose cannon and, more than being a Nazi sympathiser, he was actively leaking govt secrets to them. The man was a traitor – if a monarch can even be a traitor??
I’m sure there will be someone on here who has better info than me but yeah, Wallis was used as an excuse. “Leaving my throne for love” plays better as a morale boosting headline than “I’m being forced out because I actually think Hitler would make a great PM of the UK”.
You are so right! Henry the 8th got this whole royal divorce thing going, and created the current British religious system out of it.
@The Hench
Everything you said and then some. I’m tired of the “did it all for love narrative” when there are actual photos of Edward doing a certain salute with a young Queen Elizabeth. Just messy and not even well hidden.
@Oy_Hey – so true. In fact the whole thing was a classic example of how the RF are a) more awful than we can probably imagine and b) constantly protected by the media and govt.
Wallis Simpson was a twice-divorced, scheming beyotch who stole Edward VIII from her best friend, Lady Thelma Furness, while she was away in the US. She was as much of a social climber as the Wisteria Sisters and when Edward VIII decided to abdicate she wanted to bail out of marrying him simply because she wouldn’t become Queen Consort. But by then the British media had gotten hold of their story and people were out for her blood. That’s why they had to high-tail it to Paris, and eventually got sent to Nassau to keep him away from the UK where he was divulging secrets to the Nazis. There is utterly no comparison between them and the Sussexes and Penny Junor needs to read a history book and STFU.
The Hench, I’ve read that the PM at the time immediately agreed with Edward that he would have to abdicate. The PM was aware that Eddie and Wallace were leaking secrets. What amazes me still is that they didn’t get him to Nassau way earlier than he did. I’ve read that France didn’t have a chance since the military plans were leaked–traced back to Eddie and Wallace, or at least a very reasonable trail to the leaking was written. It angers me when they keep trotting out this crap–don’t compare H&M to Nazi’s. The only reason H&M has done damage to the monarchy is because of the white supremacy that it continues to be based on. Yep, that’s going to stick unless the citizens of the UK allow the bm to explain it all away and convince everyone that no racism exists there. I’m hoping there is lots of push back that doesn’t go away.
The Crown drove me absolutely nuts in having only one episode that even mentioned that Edward was a Nazi. Then it was right back to the “he did it all for love” narrative, and the episode in which he died didn’t even mention that he and Wallis were big ol’ Nazis. If Edward had stayed king, he’d have done everything he could to hand over Britain to Hitler. But we’re supposed to feel bad for them?
I’ve got overactive empathy/sympathy. I often feel bad for Kate Middleton (I think she’s awful but that it also must be awful to be her.) But asking even me to feel anything but contempt for wealthy and powerful Nazis In Love is going way too far. These people would have wanted me (disabled) and my whole extended family (half Jewish, multiracial) dead. Boo hoo Edward was bored with his rich, partying lifestyle. He was lucky not to end up in front of the Hague.
Edward viii had a deal with Hitler to be reinstated as King if he won. Many Aristocrats agreed with Hitler and sympathised with his aims. It was only when he started thinking about invading Europe and wanted to invade Britain that they didnt like it. There are pictures of The Queen and Princess Margaret doing nazi salutes as children, with the Queen Mother smiling behind them
Edward VIII and Wallis were shipped off to Nassau in the Bahamas so he could be Governor General. Then they spent most of the time in the US. (he would go and visit his mother from time to time) and led a life of parties, winters in Palm Beach, dinner parties held by Wallis, and a suite at the Waldorf. That’s how the remainder of their life was spent an endless social whirl.
Harry leaving and telling the whole world, “The entire royal setup is pretty sh*t, actually,” was a blow to monarchists everywhere, if no one else.
Absolutely. Some derangers even believe that Harry should be charged with treason. They can’t fathom that he won’t just stand by and let his wife, kids and himself be treated like crap. They think being in the RF is worth the abuse and damaged self worth. He was not expected to leave, get several gigs and thrive.
TREASON?! The delusion (not to mention stupidity and ignorance of anyone who actually believes this) is scarily strong with some of these people. Sometimes they’re so over-the-top that you just have to laugh.
That truly is scary, the Palace and all the minions that make up this toxicity are at fault for allowing and feeding this type of hate and bullying! It is malicious criminal behavior.. They are so worried about their Monarchy, leave the Sussex’s alone, correct the leaks and lies because if something ever happens to that family your Monarchy will be done. I can’t imagine anyone wanting anything to do with you when the press turns of you, and they would do it in a drop of a hat to deflect from their culpability.
No one deserves this for wanting to live a happy life, no one.
@Cessily your last sentence says it all so well
someone needs to tell those 45 year old MAGA women that Harry wants neither them, nor their daughters. That’s the “treason” of which they speak.
We Americans have had a good, close up look at treason recently, and can speak with some authority that Harry has done nothing of the sort.
Yes, this and the fact that Harry and Meghan prove that Royals can leave the family and be successful. They don’t need the institution or tax payer money to perform charitable acts on a large scale. That’s pretty damaging.
But no, not as damaging as being an actual Nazi or pedophile
Not to mention how damaging the whole racism thing within the family to the Commonwealth countries. Many are considering getting rid of the queen as head of state..but still not damaging as Edward actions
Not sure *any* old Royals could leave and be as successful as Meghan and Harry. This pair has “it factor” in spades, tons of charisma & mega star power—both individually and magnified as a couple. Can’t wait to see all the good they do in the world.
While leaving the BRF is not morally reprehensible like being a Nazi sympathizer or ephebophile rapist, proving that royals can leave a hereditary position, and thrive after doing so while not requiring tax payers to support them is supremely damaging to the monarchy. It isn’t just about one or two people leaving the BRF but a whole ecosystem of bloodline aristocracy and the people who rely on it for power, position, and/or pay will collapse. That is why the palaces are so desperate, scrambling, and flailing.
The playbook used by the BRF for Wallis and Edward won’t work here because the Harry and Meg now don’t need, want, or care to be part of the BRF anymore. And although there has been an increase in racist and sexist behavior around the world and horrible legislation reflecting that, the people lashing out are fighting against the inevitable and progressive changes that Millennials and Gen Z will bring to fruition. The tabloids won’t be able to save the BRF as long as it engages in war against the Sussexes, because people will get bored by the drama and less interested in the topic and all that remains is archaic, outdated, and supremely dull heirs. This Gen X’er is looking forward to it!
Greywacke, I’m in the US, so please understand my ignorance. I don’t understand how two people leaving the bloodline aristocracy life and setting up elsewhere will affect that ecosystem??? I understand class systems, but this is puzzling to me.
The Sussexit was more SELF-INFLICTED Stupidity And SELF-INFLICTED dumba$$ery than the abdication. There fixed it for you. And what a stupid premise when an “alleged”pedo is still living in the nesting grounds of that family paid for by British Citizens.
Exactly ive never seen somebody fumble the bag as hard as ive seen the windsors do it over the past few years. All it would have taken was one measly statement from the queen condemning the press. But no it was radio silence and she wasn’t willing to step in to correct her staff and tell them to treat meghan with respect. What did they really expected them to stay? LOL. Delusions
They would never admit that. We know the incandescent one let his pettiness, jealous and resentment get in the way of the bigger picture. He gleefully leaked what he and machine gun kelly were doing to exclude Meghan to the press thinking he was smart. He was too stupid to see that he was shooting himself and the monarchy in the foot.
Agree. Meghan has a higher IQ asleep then this entire outfit on their best day. But lord the evil viciousness and racism are only eclipsed by the raging stupidity.
Harry and Meghan were actively being pushed out by William. They saw the writing on the wall and left on their terms before the royal family could define the narrative.
And Charles.
Harry wasn’t being pushed out just Meghan. The institution was thrown for a loop when Harry left too. The door will be left open for only Harry to return which is why the vitriol remains on Meghan only. Divorce is the end game for the palace and media.
these folks never think past their own desires. I’m convinced that Kate thought right up to the wedding day and not one day past. William thought up to the moment Harry and Meghan left and not one minute past. Now they are thinking about the day harry (inevitably) returns to them and not one day past. They aren’t even thinking how the RF would look if Harry abandoned his wife and 2 children. They really think they can replace Meghan with a new OfHarry and have new children (I’m thinking of the new Ofglen in Handmaid’s Tale and how creepy she was). No one has even considered how an abandoned Meghan and children would look to the world in 2021.
Even if Harry and Meghan were to divorce, I can’t imagine Harry would go back. Why would he? He’s never wanted to be Royal and in his own words, “I just don’t like England much.”
He would never return he mainly left because he knew there was no place for Archie and his children in that system he ain’t stupid he knows what their future would be.. They will be sidelined unprotected in comparison to the Cambridges children with titles..
I doubt there will be a divorce. It is horrifying what Cambridge stans post on social media the stans WISH Harry will “take” his children and rush back to his brother and Kate after all they got along “so well” together.
I cant even with the whole “Harry is untrustworthy because he told Gayle King the conversation was unproductive” – first, that was hardly telling us the nitty gritty of the convo, and second, ALL the royals do is run to RRs and blab about their different conversations etc. I cant figure out if the issue is that Harry put his name to it, that Gayle King shared it (powerful black woman), or some conversation of both.
The bit about “having a brother ready to step in” also stood out to me. It seems she is definitely implying that Harry left a void and no one can fill it. He’s 6th in line. If your monarchy is so weak that you need the 6th in line to stick around because no one else can do his work, then you need to re-evaluate yourselves. (I admit that saying he’s “6th in line” sort of diminishes him, because 3 of those ahead of him are small children, so arent going to be doing any work etc, but the Firm sure wanted to make sure he knew his place, right?)
Kaiser mentioned it but remember that article penny wrote about the cambs following the sussex playbook a few weeks back? Lmao she knows the younger generation ain’t here for william and kate and any attempt by those 2 to appeal to a younger gen are fully rejected. Penny knows very much that the void left by harry is difficult to replace. And that is exactly what she’s implying. That part about harry being untrustworthy while william was the one leaking they had a conversation in the first place is highly hypocritical
William is untrustworthy for selling out his younger brother to the media and launching a racist and hate-filled campaign against his sister in law. The reason they feel Harry’s loss acutely is because the others are bland. They lack charisma, are not fun and nor are they sexy.
I also think they feel some sort of jealousy towards gayle king because while in the UK meghan and harry rejected the notion of engaging with any RR (or media really) but in the US they clearly have media personalities that they trust and have no problem sharing info with. Remember royal rota rats damn near crying about never meeting meghan? Yeah they are pissed they lost the gig.
@Myra, ITA— they’re so used to making up whateverTF they want and attributing quotes to “anonymous sources” that the fact that Harry openly signed off on this statement threw them for a loop.
It showed, again, how dirty their tactics are, so they get defensive and try to twist it into Harry somehow being the bad guy here.
In reality, he’s just the only one with the cojones to stand behind his own words and hide behind “royal sources.”
The non-Harry and Meghan ones are also dumb as a sack of hammers.
The RR no doubt had days of articles planned about Charles and William calling Harry after the interview, likely with assistance from “royal sources” with their own spin as well about how that was going. By making that statement to Gayle King, Harry cut all of them, including the RF, off at the knees. That he made the statement to an American journalist, more salt in the wound.
@windyriver they had already drafted the stories about how prince william, the future king,is the savior of the family by calling harry and trying to keep everyone together. Harry effectively put a stop to those stories. I also think that it was another warning shot. After the interview the RF went back to it’s old ways leaking left right and centre. With the move of gayle king harry said: you leak, we speak. And i think it was some sort of effective because its nearly been a month and they are still talking about the interview because there are no leaks anymore. It’s been radio silent from ‘palace sources’ regarding m&h.
Wow in their heads harry really is the future king huh? I actually do think even the RR think that william is unfit to be king. Like ive said before willy has no idea how to shape the role he’s about to inherit. Charles has shown to be a do’er. Harry followed this playbook (sentebale, invictus etc). William followed the queens playbook but by the time he becomes king that just won’t be enough. He needs to become a man of action and he has no idea how.
I know. I was researching some information for a short article I wrote and saw that Harry actually produced a documentary film “The Forgotten Kingdom – Prince Harry in Lesotho.”
Folks don’t know this man has all kinds of skills in his tool box. This film was released in 2005 which was the same year that he went to that costume party.
I said something similar down below. William is unfit. Look at how much damage he has done already and he isn’t even on the throne yet. Charles isn’t much better; if all he can do is whine into the sidelines about the crown and not lead his family, than how the hell can he be king? Nobody in that family gets the type of coverage Harry does. Nobody else is as charming. And nobody else is an actual leader. Harry lead troops through Afghanistan and these fools can barely stand up to the courtiers. They’re all trash.
No one else is charming period.
William is a tyrant because he thinks he can inherit/will be granted his grandmothers good will/reverence from the people. He thinks it is automatic, it is not.
Charles let William order Harry around and watched while he pulled PR stunts against Harry. Charles coddled William since after Diana died, he even apologized for William trespassing on another estate speeding along in his car, and William’s COMMANDER had to take the rap when William commandeered a military copter to land on Kate’s lawn and then later took the copter to a stag party. And William and Charles were INCANDESCENT WITH rage at Edward because he had left some film crew at St Andrew’s. Charles continues the same policies and he and William probably want Harry to apologize to William.
@ Cecilia, Baldimort doesn’t have any idea how to be king, because he wants and desperately wants the glory and power of being king but doesn’t want to do the work of being an effective king. It’s not an issue that he doesn’t know how to be a responsible and effective king, he doesn’t want to do the work due to his arrogance and narcissistic traits. Baldimort will be a terrible king due to his own making, not the making of anyone else. He has had decades to do the work of understanding and learning what makes as an effective monarch over the decades but Baldimort decided NOT to educate himself. He has had access to TQ for decades to shadow her in her strengths to learn but he chose NOT to. Baldimort had the same set of parents as Harry did, but Harry did the work, he learned and listened to what makes a royal effective in the bigger picture. Harry saw the future for himself and did the work with the hard dedication to learn the right path to succeed on his own, unlike Baldimort. Baldimort and Keen Karen smear campaign rid them of Meghan and the scapegoat for Baldimort. They have no one to blame BUT themselves.
As for Penny, she needs to STFU and stop with the hate campaign against Harry and Meghan and the inflammatory and delusional statements. It is due to her and the rest of the royal rats, with the indispensable help/leaks from Baldimort that the royal monarchy future is in peril. In regards to her comment of who is trustworthy, her statement is certainly a matter of loyalty, not truth.
It’s amazing how pressed the royals remain over the abdication of a Nazi sympathizer.
It was a giiiiift!
Yes and if Prince Harry ”leaked” an apology or a sincere olive branch that would be so damaging and such a betrayal… Seems like the BRF and Institution they allow to operate this way are very afraid of something.
I will say again, there is something wrong with Will. Harry stepping back from being a working royal should not have caused this much furor and nonsensical craziness.
And the manipulation Penny threw up all over her article is insane. Harry is not trustworthy because he doesn’t want to be used as a scapegoat and clown. Or it’s because he’s clarifying his points to the wrong media..
And we have heard that a few times over the past year or two, right? From everyone from the RRs to historians like Robert Lacey – that the monarchy depends on William AND Harry, that William NEEDS Harry when he’s king, etc.
I think part of is that William needs Harry to be used as a scapegoat to cover up his own issues for the next 5 or 6 decades, but there also seems to be something else that is going unsaid, like there is a lot more to it than just that. It seems to be an established fact that William is not going to be a good king – but why? His rages? His sense of entitlement? Something else?
@becks1 it’s likely all that you mentioned and his lack of charisma. I think william always wanted to be the centre of attention but that he DIDN’t want more scrutiny. Because that will make all the things he is lacking very much clear. He simply can’t afford that. And harry isn’t there anymore to garner public interest or to be the scapegoat and cover for williams shortcomings. So yes they are faced with a big problem.
@Becks ita. Harry being needed to continue in his role as scapegoat is definitely part of it, but behind all of this hand-wringing, there’s an incredibly strong undercurrent of worry that they KNOW they’re totally screwed if left with only the Cambridges.
IMO it’s so telling that they’re losing their sh!t — to *this* extent — over Harry leaving. Yes, the fact that they think they “own” him because they fund the BRF is a factor, and the fact that he’s one of “Diana’s boys” is too, but imo the real problem is they all know deep down that William isn’t up to the job. Even if Harry had stayed, it would certainly have helped, but William still wouldn’t have been able to be a good leader because he’s a lazy, arrogant, unethical person.
Their plan seems to be to keep using Harry — and now Meghan — as scapegoats, but I think it will be harder to continue blaming the Cambridges’ shortcomings on Harry’s absence year after year and decade after decade. Especially as everyone has seen Harry move on to do his own thing halfway around the world. At some point William has got to be able to stand on his own as his own person with his own achievements, no more excuses, and…well, thoughts and prayers.
ETA: @Cecilia it seems like William wanted his reign to be exactly like Elizabeth’s— doing all of the high-profile meetings (photo ops) with world leaders, knighting people, hosting state dinners, etc., while also having a ton of privacy and disappearing for weeks at a time on vacation. While making Harry and his family take on many of the more boring “bread + butter” engagements. But it’s not 1950 anymore and he’s going to face a lot more scrutiny. Before, he at least took solace in the fact that Harry would always be there to throw under the bus, but now he’s on his own and he’s freaking the fck out.
I think it’s William’s peeny-weeny that is the problem. That is what needs the cover of Meghan and Harry. Not just Harry but both of them, they need Meghan to be the scandal and outrage machine. Plus she’s more interesting. They are the shield that Baldingham and Keen need to hide behind to hide that crumbling marriage and other dumb escapades.
@lorelei. The problem with that is that the queen is a highly diplomatic figure where william is simply not. And then there’s another problem: william needs to appeal to a younger audience, if he wants to make anything of the monarchy. And he doesn’t appeal to them at the moment.
The younger gen is fine with the queen because they think of her as sort of a grandma of the nation and because she has been around for so long. She is simply a trusted face. But they won’t be here for william following the same playbook. They will demand modernization and a lot more work, but william doesn’t know how. He can barely garner any attention for his passion project and the times he does get attention is when he seriously messes up. That’s not good.
Yes, Becks1. There something wrong with Will that Harry and Top CEO Kate were/are expected to lead the institution. Too bad none of the Rota or British press have the balls to do a an honest deep dive into Wills psyche.
@Cecilia agreed. And imo William has never really had a good role model — Elizabeth’s situation was so unusual; she was thrown into the position unexpectedly and at such a young age, and earned respect over decades.
Charles has been waiting more than 75 years and while he’s accomplished a lot as POW, he’s had his share of scandals and he has not been a particularly good father (imo). He’s got to be so frustrated by now. His reign will likely be fairly short, and most of it will probably consist of trying to convince people it’s still worth keeping the monarchy around once Liz is gone.
William is in sort of a weird limbo to begin with, and the fact that his brother was so much more popular than he was — and continues to be! — is making everything so much worse. As you said, the younger generations are all Team Sussex. Most of the Cambridges’ fans seem to be older conservatives, the fussy longtime monarchists who will be dying off soon.
If only he had been able to give Meghan a chance, get to know her and let her shine, maybe he would have eventually come to realize the Sussexes would be an enormous asset. But it seems like his & Kate’s jealousy was too strong to overcome and ended up driving all of his actions.
For sure he lacks charisma, but you dont really need to have charisma to be a good king. And yes he’s lazy and racist, but he’s not the only racist one in that family.
I dont know. I just feel like there is something being tip toed around in a big way. Alcohol or drug abuse? The rampant cheating (maybe way more than we know?) Lacey even had a quote a few months ago about how the brothers HAVE to reconcile for the future of the monarchy. Why? No one cares that Charles and Andrew don’t get along.
His rage and the fact that they all know deep down, he is not a good person.
It was common knowledge that William didn’t want to be king. I think they eased him back into the idea by saying it could be a package deal with Harry and that William could be the kind of king he wanted to be with Harry to pick up the slack. They had to entice William into finally being a full-time royal when he was in his mid-30s. Meanwhile, Harry had been actively pursuing projects and being the jovial front for the Royal team of Wills & Harry. Wills has been house-partying, ski-tripping, missing in action but with Harry around it still looked like they were getting value from the younger generation.
I’ve read some tea on Lipstick Alley that Will’s partying is still a concern. Take it with a grain of salt, but maybe that kind of info is more well-known by some of the long-time reporters who keep insisting Harry has to be there.
There was someone here a while ago who claimed to know someone with contacts to the British royal reporters – and the word is, for whatever it is worth, that William has a serious alcohol problem.
What “wrong” with Will is that he is a lazy as hell openly racist sod! He has NEVER carried a project (on his own) let alone one to completion, where it is up and running and self-sustaining. Everyone *knows* this, yet they pretend it’s otherwise. This jackass couldn’t even complete a THREE WEEK agriculture course that was tailor-made *just*for*him. I think the ONLY things he’s seen to completion are his many vacations and “extra-curricular” bush trimmings.
If he doesn’t have Harry to hide behind, we will truly see the “Naked Prince”, for he has NO clothes of his own to wear.
Rarely in history has it been said so strongly that an heir NEEDS the spare to be King. And yes I know that William and Harry were pushed together due to Diana’s death but if they’re still this dependent in their mid-late 30s then something is not right.
@sofia william is dependent on harry. Harry is very much NOT dependent on william and i think that it hurts williams ego very much to realize that
Yes, it’s not as if Margaret played an essential role in Elizabeth’s reign. She just seems like she was a party girl (from what I’ve seen on The Crown.)
@betsyh Elisabeth didn’t need her sister in that way, she had her mother (the queen mum), who controlled both her and a lot of what she did. She indoctrinated her daughter with her old fashioned views. As for Margreth being a party girl; it might have been rebellion on her part, or she was that generations scape goat. Remember all the headlines about Harry’s partying, while Willnot was the responsible big brother? Willnot was partying just as hard. Arranging partys at Highgrove while Charles was away, and dragged his underage brother into it. The RR knew, but shielded Willnot. There was a lot going on in Elisabeths generation as well. Her husbands philandering etc. which a younger scape goat a.k.a. Margreth being in the headlines was useful to cover it up.
I also think part of Margaret’s issues were that she didnt have a defined role. She was the Queen’s sister, yes, but she didnt have a lot of royal duties, she had a very messy marriage – her life is pretty sad when you look back at it, money and privilege aside. (I think HBC did such an amazing job with her these past two seasons of the Crown.)
I’ve been thinking about Margaret ever since Harry admitted he has watched (some of) The Crown. I wonder if Harry watched the depiction of Margaret’s sad life especially closely. Because Margaret’s fate seems to be the thing he became hellbent on avoiding. Margaret stayed in the fold, but at what cost? She could not marry who she wanted to, the marriage she eventually had was harmed by her having to put her (occasional, but important) royal duties ahead of him, she often wanted to do more but was prevented from it, she was scapegoated whenever necessary in the eyes of the Crown, and she turned into the image that the press made of her (pathetic aging party girl). Harry could easily have been forced to walk the same sorry road, and he refused, not only for the health of his wife and his marriage and family, but also for himself, so that he did not throw all his talent and abilities down a gaping hole.
@DeeKay – thats an interesting thought. Obviously we dont know for sure, but if I’m Harry, the parts of the Crown that I’m going to be more willing to watch are parts about my aunt who died 20 years. I bet he watched the first two seasons, because that’s so far removed from him and also that was when the royal family loved the show, LOL. And then maybe just some parts of the later seasons.
But the Margaret parts would be hard to watch from his perspective in terms of how it was reflecting on his own life, especially the line about “how can this family keep making the same mistake” (that was season 4, so well after Harry and Meghan had left, but I bet it still registered for him.) Harry would know roughly which parts were true and which weren’t, and I can see him watching some of those scenes and thinking “eff, they’re never going to change.”
Could it be that Will isn’t quite sane? The rages, the cheating, the partying, the inability to filter all sounds like someone slowly losing what control he has. And given that this is a family that ain’t about therapy, well… Harry might have been the main check on Will ‘s behavior, which is why they are so desperate for him to come back. Without Harry, they’ll have a mad king running amok.
Actually, as amazing as the interview was, I did think getting King to reveal a private phone call was a huge error in judgement. Like Thomas Markle style error.
Roya nikkah was the one who had the exclusive that there had been a phone call. Which came from her sources from kensington palace. Harry then simply chose to clarify a few days later (and through Gayle King) that the phone call was unproductive.
If you want to be mad at someone, be mad at william for leaking about the phone call in the first place
Gayle didnt reveal it. Roya Nikkah did, so it was leaked from the royals. Gayle followed up on it like a good reporter.
The current members in that institution were constantly and consistently briefing the rota about Harry and Meghan. It’s crazy that Harry has chosen to clarify his side of things and people see it as untrustworthy. What is he supposed to do? Sit there an let the British media continue to disparage him and his family?
Why is everyone allowed to speak to the media but Harry and Meghan?????
Gayle only confirmed what was already reported in the Sunday Times. And the decision to let Gayle do this was a master stroke as it stopped the British press and the Palace from spinning the phone call to suit their agenda and it stopped the Palace from briefing against Harry and Meghan in the press.
In some ways, this reminds me of Leah Riminey, who when she left Scientology, spoke openly about its suspicious practices not only to show how corrupt it was but also to protect herself from the nefarious ways Scientology undermines people who leave the cult.
The royal family and the Monarchy are inextricably linked. Harry’s unproductive conversations with his father and brother are not just about a private family problem. He and Meghan need to keep speaking their truth to protect themselves from the Monarchy discrediting them.
Ah! Very interesting — I didn’t realize the info about the call originated from a Royal source. Well then, f that!!! Glad Harry clarified, then.
@Aug I thought the same thing until the Times article was pointed out. I don’t think Harry wanted to have Gayle make a statement, but at least he didn’t hide behind an anonymous source and provided no details. If he hadn’t done that, we’d still be hearing speculation from the BM about what was said in the conversation. Unfortunately, when you’re opponent keeps dragging you into the mud you’re going to get a little dirty fighting your way out of it. I’m glad it appears all contact has been cut off or at least if there is contact the RF isn’t leaking. Given their history and the lack of info coming out, they likely aren’t talking at all.
Disagree. Gayle King gets a few facts clarified, KP does not own all the airtime for lying. She conveyed that there are receipts, and a negative phone call was had. Now, what about the FBI getting to talk to Andrew? Surely they are not forgetting that in their royal coverage?
Rubbish. One of the best things they could have done. Firmly agree with someone else up thread who said- you leak, we speak. I don’t always believe in you go low, we go high. Sometimes you absolutely need to fight with fire.
Wow! She sure likes to re-write history, doesn’t she? King George was NOT ready to step into his brother’s shoes. Does she think that no one has ever read a history book? That was a horrible time in the history of the monarchy.
There *are*, however, other things that are much worse than the abdication, but Sussexit isn’t one of them. How about Pedo-Andy? Or the train wreck of Charles’ & Diana’s divorce? Or Diana’s death? How about the blatant racism? What about hiding family members with mental illnesses, saying that they’re dead?
The British royals are usually in crisis. The Victorian era was an anomaly. At least this Charles doesn’t have to worry about the short sharp shock that ended Charles I’s life in the English Civil War.
Edward was pushed out because he was a Nazi sympathizer and he would have had England totally roll over and take it up the ass to appease Hitler. King George stayed the course. The entire world’s history would be VERY different if Edward stayed.
But I agree that Penny is saying that William will be a totally incompetent King who was counting on Harry to do the real work so he hide behind him and take credit. Without Harry, William will lean into his worst instincts and could not only be very damaging for the monarchy but for England in the long run. Especially if he’s given too much power. He’s a posh Trump in the making.
They won’t say it out loud but at the very LEAST the Commonwealth will start pealing off as soon as the Queen dies. Scotland will become independent. They could lose Wales and Northern Ireland if they keep fucking up their PR.
The UKs power on the world stage will steadily diminish if they keep cow towing to an egotistical King.
Do you think William knows deep down just how inadequate he is? All he’s been reading and hearing for the past decade or more is how he will be king with Harry by his side. The palace is in an absolute turmoil on William’s behalf now that Harry’s gone. How old do you think Will was when the idea was first floated that he needed Harry to be king? An idea that has since been reinforced by every important family member and employee he knows. You’re going to blow it William, we know it, the RF knows it, and I bet you know it too.
Absolutely. William’s actions are not that of a man who is secure in himself, his position, and his work. He’s been inadequate his entire life, propped up by the institution and the British press. If he wasn’t the FFK he would’ve been kicked out of college and the military. Of course he’s smug about it, but deep down I’m sure he knows he can’t hack it. Not really. Hence, all of those articles stating that he expected to “share the burden of being king” with Harry even after everything that had happened. Even after Oprah. He still needs Harry.
So he gets to share the burden of being king but keeps all the benefits, like exclusive access to the duchy, all the wealth, the jewels, the prestige.
That is really messed up, that they really expected Harry to sacrifice his life and happiness in the service to William. You can’t make this crap up.
@Lady D, I think he must. If he was a normal, well-adjusted adult, with most of his happiness coming from the wife & children he claims to love so much, and the confidence that when his time comes, things will work out and he’ll do his job to the best of his ability, partly by surrounding himself with good advisers (lol), we wouldn’t have seen this years-long tantrum from him.
If he truly believed he had the qualities to be a good leader, imo, he might miss his brother, but overall, he’d be a more content person. He’d be happy that Harry found love & happiness, and there never would have been a smear campaign in the first place. And every story from the day Harry left until now wouldn’t be about how angry and full of rage he is all the time. But between William’s natural personality/sense of entitlement, jealousy of Harry, and his raging racism, it ended up being a disaster.
I think he must be very torn— he thinks Harry is inferior to him, but at the same time, he’s extremely jealous of so many things about Harry’s life and he knows he’ll need Harry during his own reign. It must be a constant battle in his own head (if that makes any sense).
He is so clearly a deeply unhappy person and it seems as if he makes the people around him tense and unhappy as well. With every day, Harry’s life seems to be getting better and better, and it seems to drive William deeper into his jealous rage. It’s such a mess.
I don’t believe William knows anything. I think he’s the epitome of the Dunning Kruger Effect–stupid people often think they are brilliant. In William’s case, he has been told he is brilliant, is important, is handsome, is the savior of the UK his whole life. He’s like the nightmare child in school who thinks he deserves an A even though he never does any work. He’s just “special” like that. I have taught some kids like that (I teach at a private school after all), and one thing all of those kids with inflated senses of self importance have is a parent behind them equally full of self importance. The parent is usually worse than the kid–they poured all of their own narcissism into the kid. Imagine being told that you are destined to be king from birth, had all of your mistakes covered up, were never held accountable for any action, who never saw anything through to completion, were never taught to regulate your emotions. Is it any surprise that you’re left with someone fundamentally unsiutable to the role, yet paired with a monumentally sized sense of entitlement and self-importance?
As far as William is concerned, the royal family broke it, so they get to own it. Meghan helped Harry realize that he was not obligated, nor would he ultimately be thanked or rewarded, for carrying this burden. They should go completely No Contact with the royals and let the royals fend for themselves. The Sussexes, by leaving, have exposed how the royal family is utterly lacking in integrity, decency, or ability. They are a failed institution hanging on by a thread to a almost centanarian who gives them warm nostalgia feels.
@lanne your posts are so insightful, thoughtful, and well written. Just wanted to tell you that.
Plus 1 MUST LOVE DOGS..
Yes which is why he NEEDS Harry to need him and to be the court fall guy to have any self worth. Meghan took that away from him, and gave Harry a grounded centre, William hates that. Someone doesn’t love you if they on,y like you when you have no self worth.
I hope he knows, and I hope it keeps him awake at night.
Gayle King CONFIRMED leaked information from the Palace. Full stop. This never ending attempt to act as though “Palace sources” are not THE PALACE and the ROYAL FAMILY is total bullshit. If the “leak” was just made up (always a possibility, I admit, Royal “experts” sometimes quote each other), the RF had two options- immediately denounce and begin an investigation of the member of staff who violated the NDA and Queen’s third-line whip OR make a statement that the Telegraph “exclusive” about the phone call was false and their was no source. Of course, it wasn’t false- Harry confirmed it. Meaning it did come from someone working for or close to William or was William himself. Breach of trust, such bs.
Harry’s no longer there to throw under the bus when they want to hide a bad story and to use to bolster their popularity and to hide their own lack of charisma. I think this is what Penny is getting at.
They’re once again elevating Harry higher than his place they swear HE doesn’t know. He’s 6th in line. HOW is the 6th in line leaving MORE damaging than an HEIR abdicating?!
Harry is the real king that’s why. They all know it. Harry would’ve been the shadow king and William would’ve just been the face. Harry has been the most popular royal behind the queen, in front of Charles and William. Harry has the skills, vision, and leadership qualities to keep the monarchy going. Not to mention, the charm and charisma. They are treating Harry like the king who abdicated and not the so-called irrelevant spare.
Yup. And that is why Diana always referred to him as Good King Harry.
@Snuffles Diana had her issues for sure and she wasn’t the saint that some people view her as, but she was SO much more perceptive than people ever gave her credit for imo.
Diana was not a saint and she did not act like she was “perfect inside and outside” which is now used for kate by her stans. I like Diana because she was not a saint and did not pretend to be one.Diana also had she not been ousted probably would have had more of a handle on the situation than CHarles does. CHarles just sat back and let William take over. Diana would not have allowed William to have treated Harry that way.
One thing I have noticed is Meghan has the ability to make other people look good. I mean her job on Suits as a supporting actress was to make the white male star characters of the show look good and she did that for Harry, but also the Charles, the Queen, and even William and Kate in their early appearances. What has been a revelation is how much Harry himself has the ability to make people look good. He made William and Kate more appealing. He humanized Charles in a William cannot and he even made the Queen more appealing with things like the Invictus video. And Harry and Meghan make each other look good and balance each other so that ability to humanize people and put them in the best possible light only magnifies and the Royal family no longer benefits from it and now they are exposed.
This is actually a skill that gets overlooked, because it does depend on being comfortable being in the background. Elevating all those around you through your own charm and charisma is not easy feat, especially when those around you are Will-di Amin and Buttons. But it requires some humility and security in yourself to achieve. Being ok with others shining only speaks to your own character, which Harry and Meghan have in spades. It’s why their charity work is so effective; they aren’t afraid to take the backseat.
@SH / JT: this is such a good point! I never really thought about it that way. But it’s critical to success imo, and as you said, so overlooked.
It will be a LONG time, imo, before they fully realize what they lost when they lost Harry. If they ever do.
Of course Will needs Harry, not Charles because his age group is not going to want to give up the monarchy. Will’s age group and younger don’t have that sympathetic loyalty. But they should have thought about that before they ran Meghan away. I say Meghan because they absolutely didn’t think Harry would leave with her OR find a way for them to support themselves. Streaming ompanies like Netflix and Spotify take pleasure in smacking down the conservatives. They got a kick out of telling the royal reporters and experts that they weren’t doing a disclaimer just as CBS and Oprah refused to edit headliines. This generation loves bringing down giants.
If they really need Harry the way they seem to, then my goodness, why not try treating him and Meghan better? the reason I have nothing but contempt for the royals is that they want everything their way. Like toddlers. No one, apparently, has ever let them know that you can’t have everything your way–you can’t rely on a brother to be your whipping boy, treat his wife and family like shit, then be surprised when he bounces. They keep doing the same thing over and over, expecting the same results. I truly think that they honestly believe that Harry will abandon Meghan and come back to them. If only they curse her and their children the right way, as long as they find the right words to demean and undermine them.
William thought he wanted the spotlight to himself, well, now he’s got it. He and Kate can cosplay Picture Perfect Royals all they want now. Oh. wait. They have no agenda, no ideas, no thoughts on how to shape their reign, you say? They NEED Harry, you say?
They shit the bed and now they have to lie in it. Maybe they can pretend that the smell of shit wafting around them is roses. Maybe the ratchets will believe it if they write it enough times. But the rest of the world sees the RF sitting on a big bed of DooDoo and no, we don’t want any part of it!
They should have bent over backwards to keep Good King Harry happy. Will wasn’t going anywhere. He has no skills to survive outside the monarchy and he certainly couldn’t support his very lavish lifestyle without it. No more trips with the helo to go 10 miles. Harry was the one they were all counting on, but they are so dumb they really thought trying to break would keep him there. This is a man who preferred being in a war zone, than spending time with his own family. As if he could be swayed with the fucked up institution.
@Lanne it’s INCREDIBLE. It’s like, treating Harry and his family well is the one thing they absolutely cannot and will not do, no matter the consequences. It’s bizarre.
The RF is used to their playbook always working. They simply can’t compute that there could possibly be a better life outside the palace, and they’ve relied on that fear (And withholding privileges. And the eternal bleat of “duty.”) to keep “difficult” folks in line. That Harry didn’t cave to those has trashed their usual strategies.
Dear Penny: William and Charles have damaged the monarchy through their treatment of Meghan and the Sussexes. The queen has also damaged the monarchy by protecting Andrew. Charles damaged the monarchy along with Camilla by their horrible treatment of Diana. Lay off Harry and Meghan will you and stop this “Sussexit was damaging” bullshit. None of you are making any sense. In plainspeak, this is what happens when you have incompetent assholes in charge of more incompetent assholes.
Wasn’t Penny the one talking about the gold-plated advisors? Lord have mercy.
Good. They’ve had it too good for too long.
Good. They’ve had it too good for too long.
Penny literally said a few months ago that Harry was irrelevant & now his leaving & this interview which the rota is saying is full of lies- is a bigger threat than a king abdicating? Wow
The nerve of Penny to say one comment from Gayle after Will said he would speak to his brother& after the Sunday Times had already reported on a call between the brothers- shows Harry can’t be trusted. Like we haven’t seen years of leaks & gossip on the Sussexes from the firm including the Canada plan, HR discussing Meghan being in distress with a Times reporter and a palace source aiding the Mail in Meghan’s lawsuit
The theme of secrecy has aided and abetted abusers always. “You had better not tell.” In fact, the secrecy is to protect the abuser, not the abused. So for the Brits, Harry and Meghan’s “telling” is worse than the abusive behavior towards them that was dished out by the Royal Family. And to that I say, “Bollocks.” The shame and blame needs to be pointed back at the abusers, the true betrayers of trust and family values. And that is the Royal Family. They’ve been outed and it’s too damn bad if they don’t like it.
That pretty much sums it up. They thought they would be quiet, which was ridiculous. It never occurs to royal watcher types that what the press did in amplifying and attacking Meghan was creating a bad scenario and damaging as well. I really wish they would just come out and say what the goal was there. Did they really think the Sussexes would never speak about their experiences and why they left? The royals handled this so badly and the damage was done long before the interview, especially since they continued to harass the Sussexes and actually manufacture incidents to report on, like the wreath and birth certificate stories. The monarchy damaged themselves when they decided to launch a sustained attack on Meghan before the ink was even dry on the marriage certificate.
Amen.
Imagine a future where William abdicated and Harry was the brother ready to step into this shoes. The monarchy would be so much more popular, effective and with purpose.
wouldn’t work: George, Charlotte, and Louis come before Harry. The most Harry could be is George’s regent, and there’s no way in hell William and Kate would want that–also, they would have to likely leave the UK if they abdicated, and that would probably mean leaving their children behind. That’s one reason why Nicholas 2 abdicated for himself AND for his son in Russia in 1917. He couldn’t bear to leave his medically fragile child behind in Russia. Even so, many people thought it wasn’t legal for a father to abdicate on behalf of a son–it’s something that, absent a revolution, could have ended up in the courts.
The UK is stuck with William unless he does something treasonous that would force him to abdicate. Being a shitty person and a shitty brother isn’t treason. Incompetence isn’t treason. The only way Harry sees the throne is for some outside catastrophe that takes out the entire Cambridge family, and that’s a horrifying thought.
Monarchy is crap because it places birthright about everything–above competence, above suitability, above morality. That’s why there’s no “skipping” Charles even though he’s unpopular, nor even “skipping” William if his popularity tanks in the UK.
Hey, does anyone know if Harry is still considered a Counselor of State? If not, then George’s regent would be Andrew, then Beatrice, and the Eugenie.
@Lanne: They haven’t really made that clear re counsellor of state thing. Harry is still legally considered domiciled in the UK so he’s still eligible apparently.
What would prevent Parliament from writing a law that an heir abdicating removes his entire line? It seems like an obstacle that could be overcome in a constitutional monarchy, especially if Parliament and the Monarchy itself decided it was the best way to ensure its survival because that’s all it’s ever really about. Ensuring the Monarchy survives. Just like pretending the abdication of Edward was marrying a divorcee rather than it being a convenient excuse because he was so problematic. The inbreeding is really starting to show in this family. Harry and Meghan’s children would be a godsend.
@Bloemheks Oh in theory anything can happen. But in reality that will never happen. William isn’t committing treason nor is he colluding with nazis like Edward VIII and there will need to be a very, very, very good reason as to why an heir and his 3 kids are being taken out of the line of succession. And as @Lanne points out, there might be legalities as to if William can take his kids out of the line out of his own choice.
Basically @Lanne’s post really explains it all.
Everyone always wanted Harry to be King not William, even Diana. Harry is the true King of people hearts, William just exists, that’s why they can’t let him go. If it was the other way round, people wouldn’t be so hung up.
Lol at Harry “revealing” stuff to Gayle and thus not being trustworthy.
Say it with RRs: he didn’t reveal anything. We know nothing about the conversation except that it changed nothing. His “reveal” was basically “I have nothing to reveal”
These fools are acting like Harry sent Gayle a flipping transcript of the call and she staged a dramatic reenactment of it. It’s absurd.
All damage was self inflicted. The queen had the option of saying of course you can step back and represent me part time. She also had the option of saying no you cannot step back and still represent me but I know you will make a go of it, I wish you well and you will always have my support. But the queen and all below her waged war. They won a few battles but the war is lost. Charles, William and George will be kings. The abdication did change the monarchy, there is no comparison. Edward walked away from being King, Harry walked away from a future of being further and further down the line.
Charles will be King. I believe that William will be King. But I’m not sure about George. I think William might bring down the monarchy as we know it. George and his siblings and heirs will be Princes, I think, but without the duties or the public funding or most of the palaces. Not a monarch, and not the public face of the country.
Honestly that would be the best thing to happen to those kids. Otherwise, those kids are going to be ground up and spit out by both the media and their parents, as no one over there seems capable of change.
Penny is throwing shade on William. She knows he needs Harry as a shield and support for his reign because William is the worst. And Penny would never disparage her good friend, Charles. For reasons.
It’s rather pathetic how they expected Harry to shoulder the responsibility of the monarchy when they would support him and his wife. It’s ludicrous. Harry is irrelevant and 6th in line, but also dangerous and subversive to the monarchy. Which is it? And the irony of Junior saying Harry isn’t trustworthy when the BRF leaks like a freaking sieve. Harry isn’t the one inviting tabloid reporters into his home for drinks and snacks.
Harry mans up and says it outloud – the rest are cowardly weasls with no courage of conviction.
I don’t think a blood royal has ever done this much damage to the monarchy. Diana and Fergie spoke out but they were married ins. I am still surprised all of what Harry said during the interview.
@Ginger, Harry is standing up for himself but more importantly than that for him(JMO), he is vindicating his mother. I think had an escape plan in his head, and fine tuned over the years. He is keenly observant and struck when the iron was hot. He gave it a go, probably because Meghan was like “oh honey I’ll help you”, but we see how ruthless klan they are. They respond back deftly so this level of planning did not happen overnight and that is why they are so very bitter.
Bettys uncle didn’t damage the monarchy?
Charles using and abusing Diana didn’t damage the monarchy?
But Harry did??!! People have lost their minds.
Harry did no damage. He is just being scapegoated because the Ghislaine trial is coming up imo
Ginger, Charles spoke out against his parents when he gave interviews to his authorized biographer DImbleby.Charles let it be known how much he resented his upbringing. This caused some headlines but CHarles never got criticized nearly as much as Harry is now.
Ginger ITA with your comments. Harry’s ” he knows what pain feels like” will haunt ( and define ) Charles for the rest of his life just as much as Diana’s Panorama zingers. Harry’s words really underscore Charles’ self-absorbed callousness even to his own flesh and blood. Charles’ failure as a husband to Diana and as a father to Harry will forever be his legacy.
I think Charles failed as a father to William, letting him run rampant and not reining him in. He is enabling William’s bad behavior.
What kind of “friend” harshly criticizes her good friend’s children so publicly? One who knows her good friend doesn’t care about his own kids. This family…
I agree with her. I don’t like her, and I don’t think she is being honest or logical, but I do agree in my own way. Hear me out! Edward’s abdication was a huge problem for the royal family, but in wider social terms it only wobbled the highest branches while the roots stayed firm. The RF’s concern at that point wasn’t so much, “the people have lost faith in us”, more “who’s willing to take the job?”. Harry however has taken an axe to the branches and right down to the roots, not actively but in reaction to his family’s inherent racism. The RF’s destruction is self-inflicted; Harry is the victim and whistleblower, not the perpetrator. Things are fragile for the RF, through no fault but their own. For example, the long-held idea that the Commonwealth nations ‘loved’ being part of the UK is falling to pieces; the historic idea that the RF sits at the peak of a cohesive and admiring society is no longer a reality. Pupils at a UK school are today protesting, with one of their demands being the take down of the Union flag from their premises. These are related issues, and no doubt prompted in some way by the accusations of racism levelled at the RF, who are rapidly being seen as emblematic of the UK’s past not its future. Rather than lobbing a bomb at the RF, Harry and Meghan gave them the opportunity to modernise and survive. The RF chose to stagnate. They will reduce in size and, once the shine of their ‘whiteness’ starts to wear off as Meghan and Harry go forwards, they will be called to account for the money they waste, their lack of purpose and function, and the nonsense outdated celebrity they stand for in modern society.
IA with your take, @Robin.
That’s a good take and I can see what you mean. Also, shortly after Edward’s abdication GB entered World War II, so that had a rallying effect around the royal family. After the war, when he was pretty settled in france, it seems that Edward went quiet.
With Harry’s stepping back, we are seeing some rally to the Queen, but there is a LOT of talk about the royal family, their role in society, racism in general and racism within the royal institution, how the royals treat the married-ins, how the press protects some royals, how the Commonwealth views the royal family, etc.
Harry’s leaving has, in many ways, put the royal family under a microscope in a way we havent seen in some time, if ever. And that is more dangerous to the monarchy than Edward.
So its not that what Harry did was worse than what Edward did, just that the impact is going to be very different.
I agree and unlike before there is no ‘illusion’ they have ACTIVELY rejected progression as well as blackness and by proxy the commonwealth. Tthey have shown their distant for the future, and the future has shown its distant back and they’re scared.
So why was it not said that Charles caused damage when he trashed his parents and complained about how “cold” his mother was and how his father “forced” him to go to a school he hated. He is the next monarch.
Probably because such things are so common amongst the British aristocracy as to be a cultural cliche, and were already common knowledge. It was basically the equivalent of a modern moody teen complaining about too much homework.
That the English aristocracy sees “unloving mother” and “being abused at school” as just some moody teenage thing is a huge part of the problem. They’re totally inhumane. They’re raised to be.
@Robin I like the way you think!
Thank you, Lorelei! What a chance the RF had to stay relevant. They threw it all away and practically killed a woman in the process. I’ve never been so ashamed of our so called press and its commentators.
I know this writer is probably just scribbling whatever comes into her head, but the article has me SO CURIOUS. What is wrong with William? Sure, we know he’s kind of lazy and boring and racist, we know he has a bad temper, but this makes it seem like there is more to it than that. I mean, it’s not that hard a job. He can have advisors to tell him what to do, what initiatives etc., and have them do most of the work too, can’t he.
What’s Up With Willie?
I am wondering the same thing.
Ann, I keep wondering this, too. I’m starting to wonder if drinking is his downfall. Just what has he been up to that the brf doesn’t want anyone to know about. I suspect he’s an alcoholic at this point. I would assume that his RPOs know what he’s been up to, and I have to wonder if he’s been compromised in some way? And, I really don’t know what I mean by that except that it’s bad.
I definitely believe Will has a alcohol problem. You can see it in his face and the deterioration of his looks.
I’m betting he’s either not quite sane–or the family fears he’ll really lose it someday.
Perhaps he threatens to abdicate when he wants something
@Gabby I wouldn’t be surprised if he does that frequently and threatens to take his children with him. It would certainly explain why the Queen and Charles seem to roll over and give him anything he wants.
I always find it interesting that we never hear how Charles needs Andrew in order to be a good king. In fact we never hear that Charles will need to rely on any of his siblings… over the years we have heard many stories about how he wants to cut them out. So why do they keep pushing that Harry needs to be there for William? What is missing in William that he needs his sibling, or that his wife can’t supply?
Charles was closer to Princess Anne but there is never talk of his needing her support.
William will have Andrew to rely on. 😊
Harry is the key to the kingdom and they all know it. It became that much more obvious once Meghan came along and they saw that true King and Queen energy. For the last 40 years, the entire thing has been carried by Diana, Harry, and Meghan. Take them away and the vote to get rid of the crown would be happening as we speak.
What would it take to get rid of the monarchy? Or to reduce their role and privileges?
Hello. First time commentator here. Btw Kaiser, the rumour you’re talking about, is it a certain Junor having ‘lunch’ with a Prince of Wales 😏
Hi!
Maybe she thinks if she supports him she’ll eventually get to be Queen Consort.
I’ve been rolling my eyes at the idea of this being the death knell of the monarchy but I’m actually starting to see how this could legit be worse than the abdication and Diana. I thought between inertia, the constitutional headache of removing the RF, and the many powerful people in England who like being lords and earls (if you don’t have a RF why have an aristocracy) the RF could coast . But that ignores the commonwealth and how much the queen esp views herself as the head of more than just Britain. Will may become king of England but I doubt he becomes king of even 60% of the current commonwealth. Between Meghan and Brexit many international people realized, especially those of color, began to realize that the extent of racism in Britain.
Also how many commonwealth citizens including the white ones are asking themselves why their HOS is a citizen of a completely different country? How many are thinking about this for the first time because of witnessing what happened to Meghan. Non brits don’t have the same love/hate relationship with the royals, they are merely celebs. How many under 40s actually think positively about the institution and not just individual members? Those numbers are bad in the UK imagine the commonwealth. If you are in in it for the superficial/gossip aspect of specific members then it’s easy to pick sides and end up against the institution. what happens with Kate stans when wills cheating becomes inescapable, do they remain royalists or become anti royals in solidarity with the scorned Kate? How many Sussex squad members didn’t care about the royals and now hate the RF? How about Will vs a popular 20yr George? Does Kate who genuinely loves being a mom sit back when will throws Charlotte or Louis under the bus? How many younger royalists start worrying about the mental health of George Charlotte and Louis. I’m happy Archie and his sister managed to get out and I doubt I’m the only one. If you have a referendum in Australia how easily can a PR agency use that idea for support? Whereas in Britain removing the RF is a massive political and cultural headache in Canada, Australia Jamaica etc it may only be as hard as getting a few thousand people pushing for a referendum (cuz I highly doubt this generation would vote to keep the royals) or as easy as a handful of politicians who see the role of Governor General as a nice retirement plan and push parliament to vote on it.
the abdication was limited to Wallis and edward and easy to split from the wider family . historically it is only important because the queen was traumatized and is her excuse for making her family so miserable. Meghan and Harry are more the straw breaking the camels back and that’s why this situation is dangerous for the family it can’t be siloed from the wider family. How long can you maintain the prestige/relevancy of the RF if the only people that care about them are white brits? Will the brits further hate the financial expense if they can’t maintain the soft power of being the HOS/leader of the commonwealth (especially with brexit). A billion people aren’t watching the weddings of or spending money on the other European royal families. Will a billion people be watching the wedding of George or will it have the same relevance of Eugenie andBeatrice ?
Very good points.
This is an excellent take, @Susie! Personally, I think anyone in line to marry George will pass. It was hard enough for William and Harry to get aristocratic women to consider them. No way in hell should a woman take that on–George and Louis should come with warning labels. The British AND the Japanese RF should be considered radioactive for married-in women (the Japanese monarchy rests on one young boy right now. One. The pressure for him to marry, and for his wife to have sone, is going to be unbearable). In the UK, young women will have seen how being a young royal plays out in the age of social media, and they will remember how Meghan was treated (and by then, surely there will be a public reconsideration of the smear campaign in the UK itself).
The writing has likely been on the wall for the Commonwealth long before Meghan and Harry–the only thing going for it right now is nostalgia for the Queen. I highly doubt that Charles or William would have been able to sustain that even in the best of circumstances (but hey, Meghan could have really helped!!). I think that Sussexit will hasten what was already coming–there’s no need for a country in 2021 to have a foreign head of state, and a foreign head of state from a country that has doubled down on racism and xenophobia is even less appealing.
I’m more worried about Charlotte being thwarted by her controlling father from marrying her choice. It could get to be another Margaret/Townsend type of scenario. Carole might push her in the direction of a European Prince–and send her to the same University so she can be a Princess/Queen.
I think much of the campaign against Harry and Meghan actually originates with Carole. Not that she personally tells courtiers and aids to leak, but that she manipulates William. In so many dramatizations of Monarchies over the centuries we see individuals whispering into the ears of Monarchs and their heirs, flattering them, convincing them there are threats where there are none, and putting ideas into their heads.
Carole stands the most to gain from this situation. Diana is not here to be Queen Mother, which means Carole will take on that role and she wants it bad. Carole doesn’t want Harry and Meghan around, because she wants to pull all the strings. One of the latest embiggening articles about Kate actually referred to the advantage of the strong Middleton blood. We’re going to see a lot more Middleton’s in the inner circle doing engagements and becoming pseudo working Royals when Charles dies.
Why are the women always blamed for manipulating men? Charles and Will are the ring leaders!
This. Charles especially is the one with the most power. This is on him more than anyone. But somehow women must always be blamed for everything, which is a huge part of the problem that Meghan was talking about.
Queen Mother was a made-up role to appease TQ’s mother who wasn’t happy about having to step down as queen when her husband died. They had to send Churchill to go talk to her because she retreated to her castle in Scotland and refused to come back.
Can’t see how Carole can be queen-mother when her daughter will only be queen consort.
Agree, NINA. I read a lot of history and the Queen Mum was a real piece of work. Talk about —- 3 of us in the marriage! Talk about, ‘The Iron Lady’. The Queen ‘Mum’ never liked Phillip, actively worked against him, guilted her daughter into choosing “loyalty” to ruling in her father’s memory, insisted her daughter run things by her, and had to be forced out of Buckingham Palace where she insisted on staying for over a year after Elizabeth became Queen. In some ways I think she chose to be a real wedge in her daughter’s marriage and in Charle’s relationship with his father.
Carole is the evil villain in this whole saga.
Junor wrote a biography of Harry half of which consisted of Diana bashing. She’s not one to talk.
Junor does not know her history. Edward was actually the KING and abdicated and became Duke of Windsor. Harry never had a chance to be King.
Basically she just said “at least Wallis was white”
They did not want her there for a number of reasons. I think they were terrified she would outshine them. Not the Queen or Anne, I think they wanted someone to up everyone’s game..
Yesterday I read an article claiming Princess Anne was the one who mentioned Harry and Meghan’s unborn child’s skintone-but she didnot mean it the way it sounded-I don’t believe it for one minute-This has protect William at all cost written all over it.
Yep. That’s all lies. No one cares about Anne’s opinion. She doesn’t have a high enough profile for the comments to be “damaging” to her. She’s also not the one forcing black people to be in photos with her since the Oprah interview.
It’s William.
As Edward was a Nazi sympathizer, I’m sure the next step in this process is to say that Harry is worse than Hitler. It’s coming, y’all.
Maybe Penny should look at Charles’ and William’s self important behavior and poor leadership qualities as being more damaging because the heinous behind the scenes workings of the RF, palaces, houses, grey men, courtiers, RR and so on have been exposed on a global level.
People are looking more closely at the monarchy’s:
1. Rascism
2. Throwing people under the bus to cover up their own crap or to make themselves look better.
3. The gaslighting whisper room tactics employed to keep others in line.
4. Finances
All of which should be scrutinized more. I’m guessing the conversation with the new pr person will go like this:
PR person: So, exactly what kind of receipts do H & M have?
RF member: *crickets*
PR person: No, really what are the possible receipts?
RF member: Nothing. We’re perfect Really. We never put a foot wrong.
PR person: That simply is not and cannot be true. I have eyes and questioned things myself. Help me to help you and cut the bs.
RF: We’re the bestest most spectaculary honorable people EVER!
PR person: I think I’m going to need a pay increase.
And LOL at Harry not being trustworthy.
Junor would never say anything bad about Charles, she said publicly she has a “soft spot” for Charles and she and Camilla are pals and she calls Camilla “sexy” and “endearing.”
Of course Penny and Camilla are ‘pals’. That was just one less blow job Camilla had to give.