Far be it from me to advise the Duke and Duchess of Sussex. They’ve honestly done better than I even believed they could. In recent months though, I have one quibble, and it’s specifically with Harry: he’s so adamant that he and his grandmother have a great relationship, despite all evidence to the contrary. Now, don’t get me wrong – I believe the Queen is very fond of Harry and I believe Harry is probably one of her favorites, if not THE favorite. But lord, the Queen and her courtiers have really done the most to disparage, insult and marginalize the ginger prince and his wife. We don’t know how much of it is the “Men in Grey” doing their machinations behind the scenes, but I do feel like the Queen has had a hand in some of the big, awful decisions. Remember how Harry’s wreath wasn’t allowed to be placed at the Cenotaph on Remembrance Day? Remember how Buckingham Palace signed off on Kensington Palace’s “Meghan is a bully” campaign? Remember how BP courtiers ran around telling everyone that Harry never asked for the Queen’s permission to name his child “Lilibet”? Remember how the Queen didn’t do jack sh-t when a pregnant woman was being harassed until she was suicidal? Yeah.
Still, Meghan and Harry have done a lot to emphasize that their biggest issues are with the institution, not the Queen (nevermind that the Queen has been in charge of the institution for close to 70 years). “Sources” close to Harry and Meghan told Omid Scobie and Carolyn Durand that Harry and his grandmother got to spend some one-on-one time together in April, when Harry flew to the UK for Philip’s funeral.
Despite the turmoil of the last 18 months, Prince Harry has always maintained a close and respectful relationship with his grandmother, Queen Elizabeth. And according to the soon-to-be-released new epilogue of Finding Freedom, the two shared a “very special” reunion back in April, having been separated for more than a year amidst the pandemic.
Prince Harry returned to the UK for Prince Philip’s funeral, reuniting with the Queen, his brother Prince William and the rest of the royal family. Meghan Markle, who was heavily pregnant with the couple’s daughter Lilibet, was advised not to travel with him. According to a source quoted in Omid Scobie and Carolyn Durand’s new epilogue, Harry spent most of his time after the funeral with Princess Eugenie and her husband Jack Brooksbank, who are close friends of he and Meghan’s. But the funeral also provided an opportunity for Harry to “spend precious moments” with the Queen.
“To see each other after so long apart, the longest he hadn’t seen the Queen for, was very special,” a source told Scobie and Durand. “Despite everything that has happened, he has the utmost love and respect for her. Her life of duty and service is one of the many ways in which she has inspired him to also serve.”
This just makes me think about how the Queen was probably the most important woman in his life after his mother’s death and before he met Meghan. Harry was the cheeky, charismatic, affectionate grandchild and I have no doubt that the Queen prefers Harry to almost any other relation. But again… Harry’s blind spot is that he only sees the Queen as his grandmother, and not as the head of a racist, colonialist, sexist, regressive institution which refuses to change. Sigh.
Photos courtesy of Avalon Red, WENN.
Celebitchy.com is getting my musical Tuesday off to a good start between Richard Marx and “precious and few are the moments we two can share…” Maybe I can build a whole Playlist around today’s stories.
And if I can’t find my way back home…..
God I love precious and few. I didn’t know anyone else loved that song like i do, it’s so obscure! Thank you for the joy!
I think I’ll give Harry some slack on this. There are only so many epiphanies, upheavals and self-revelations a person can take in such a short time. He doesn’t have to figure everything out all at once.
But “close friends of he and Meghan’s”? Somebody needs an editor.
I have no doubt that the queen adores harry and he adores her. But kaiser is right. She might be his grandmother but she’s also the head and living embodiment of the institution that treated him and his wife horribly. And till this day she offered no protection, something we all know she IS capable off. Harry said she gets bad advice but at the end of the day she is the boss and she can surpass her advisors. It’s time he starts to realize this.
Harry grew up in that family. I think he knows a great deal more about them and the Queen than we do. There is a reason that, in spite of everything, he and Meghan named their daughter Lilibet. In choosing that name rather than Elizabeth, he was naming his daughter after his grandmother whereas William and the cousins named their daughters for the Queen. I have been perplexed as to how Harry has overlooked the fact that the Queen did not step up and stop the abuse of Meghan even as it reached the stage where she wanted to die. How does one forgive that? It makes me realize that I don’t have a clue what is happening over there. Harry and Meghan do, though.
I feel like he may see her situation the same way he sees his father and his brother – trapped. They’re stuck in that they can’t really do much else. They have no skills. In the Queen’s case, she famously has no education to speak of. They’re stuck in this PR dance with the government and the press to maintain “relevance” which we’ve seen in the broad strokes of the Crown can leave QE2 will little control over her own life at times.
Now don’t get me wrong – these people are wealthy without the monarchy. “They’ve already done had theirses….” so truly could walk away if they wanted to do so. QE2 could stand up at any time and say screw it. But she won’t.
I guess my point is – is it really “time he starts to realize this”? How do we know he hasn’t “realized this” already? It’s easy for us to get impatient, because we didn’t have to live his and Meghan’s experience, and we didn’t have to do all the work of disentangling from the family, fleeing the country, finding a new place to live, finding sources of income, starting a foundation, having a new baby, back and forth to the UK for a funeral and dedication, Oprah interview, actually working on those sources of income, etc., etc., etc. Plus, Covid and continued pressure from the press and family.
Can’t he kick back for, like, two seconds and say “You know what? Grandma’s not my problem anymore. Pops and Wills, not my problem. I’ve got a whole new life to figure out, no need to drag in the old crap right now.”
And, in any case, we don’t really know if his moments with TQ were all that “precious” – we don’t know what they talked about.
@Eurydice I was just going to comment on this! I thought Town and Country had better editors
@ Nick G and Eurydice : Sadly no one has better editors anymore. I speak as an English teacher who works overseas. And so many English-speaking celebrities never got out of high school due to their careers taking off early. So their editing-spelling-grammar skills aren’t much either.
I really wish there were just one daily “Newest Excerpts From Finding Freedom” posts because all of these separate multiple posts per day are exhausting tbh. I know it’s like this with every royal book but its a lot every time to do this over and over again every time a new one comes out. Especially when there isn’t really any new interesting information coming out.
The paperback comes out today. This is probably the last of it.
The unblanced ratio of royal and other celeb news can be overwhelming but i honestly just click on what i find interesting.
This so much… I have been away for several days (busy work week as well as trying to keep up with all of the world news) but when I saw this and the other Harry/Meghan story at the top with this headline… I legit thought the Queen had died and I missed it…
It is way too much. And way too over the top.
There is this billboard in France for a radio station that has the Queen and Meghan sitting next to each other and chatting with the title “living together”. Oh the irony!!
Remember, Harry already has a bad relationship with his father and brother; Meghan is the same. It is no surprise they are going above and beyond to keep close to the family they have left. I do not want to blame the victims on this one,sorry,
As for The Queen, old and frail as she is, yes, she is nominally the boss. That is why I think she is playing the ” separating family from institution” both ways, for better or worse. It is easier for her to tell him to mind their own business when they ask about Harry because he is her grandson, not her employee anymore.
The leaks from her camp could very well be taken out of context. Maybe even at Charles’s direction. Some at the men in grey´s instigation, using her name as a proxy because they know she will not issue any rectification.
Whenever I see a RR lackey playing with words, dates and places, to make it seem Harry/Meghan are in the wrong, I know it is from Charles; whenever I see RR lackeys putting all on Meghan and listing all her imaginary meal girls ways, I know it came from William.
All the petty revenges Imo were Charles and William´s ideas. Charles is Harry´s father and boss. Every manager I know would ask for and defer to the immediate manager´s opinion when dealing with an employe´s fate, because they are supposedely to be the ones working day in and out with the employee. Moreover, as Harry´s father, Charles is the one with the direct familia obligation. Grandmothers play a supporting role on a child´s life when the parents are around.
I am not saying TQ is not petty, I am just saying Harry knows his family better than us and if he does not blame her, then…maybe we should trust him?
(This or the Sussexes know they can not touch the TQ´s name lest they would be dragged twice as hard)
The narrative that it’s all Charles & William is laughable at this point.
Just recently, the Queen has let it be known that Andrew is going to keep his military titles, against Chuck & Will’s wishes.
She’s sanctioned lawyers to cover for Andrew, to ensure he does not get served papers while in Balmoral with her.
Betty has pull and CHOSE to let Meghan hang out to dry.
Along with allowing her bestie Angela Kelly, to brief against Meghan constantly.
Starting with ‘tiaragate’🙄🙄🙄
I don’t think it is laughable . As I said before, others have piled on ,jumping on Meghan hate train on occasion, but the constant have been William/Kate with the narrative “Meghan is a bully/made Kkkate cry” and Charles with “poor Charles, such a good father, paying for those ingrates…why are they being so mean”
TQ in relation to Andrew just shows her generation and idea of loyalty. Women over a certain age believe in implied consent and there is the age of consent argument in UK. Both bullshit, mind you, but even my mother went on one day with me about not leaving the house a certain hour because men will be men. While we should all see to our self preservation, men should respect not prey on women at any time.
But women over 60 truly believe this shit and since Andrew is her son, it does not surprise me she keeps her head on the sand with this one.
Regarding Angela Kelly, that leak of hers was coordinated with William . It was ” Angela and William agreed Meghan should not have the jewels” if not mistaken.
Meghan said it best when she stated there is a difference between rude and racist. The Queen silence on get abuse seems to be more an indictment of her worst instincts, to carry on and keep quiet.
This. Andrew is a whole criminal and abuser and she’s been shielding him in public, sometimes literally walking and riding with him letting everybody know he’s her fair haired boy.
He keeps his money and titles and no one is really allowed to talk crap about him on the salt isle. Meanwhile you marry one black actress…
Yes it shows her generation but it’s still cruel and evil. Not an excuse. Andrew was able to keep hurting very young women / teenagers exactly because of attitudes like hers.
@EMMA as I said, it is bullshit. Andrew is a criminal. But in the Queen’s mind, he is just a naughty boy…of 60.
My mother is 71 and would agree with the Queen. At least partially. It goes to show that being very critical of the Queen at this point would just add fuel to the fire because people WOULD excuse her behavior 200%
Simone- agreed and I won’t think less of him for that..
Amen!!!!
Harry’s position on his grandmother is that she’s been poorly advised. The only reason I could think of as why he absolves her of any wrongdoing is that he knows that she’s not the one making these decisions, it’s Charles and the courtiers. I think he will talk about his grandmother in his book but it will be centered around what he learned from her about service. I do wonder if they have had some heart to heart discussions about the abuse he and Meghan have suffered at the hands of the Palace and the press and about the whole mess surrounding Lili’s name. I think Harry sees his grandmother as a prisoner of the institution and he rationalizes what she does using those circumstances. He did say that he had compassion for her and Charles because of how they were raised and that he understands the way they behave is due that. Hopefully he will talk about this in the book as well.
I get it, sort of. She’s his family and he’s enjoyed a loving relationship with her growing up and so he overlooks the rest of it. Meghan is obviously compartmentalizing because she loves him and this isn’t a hill she’s going to die on, understandable – I think for Meghan, it’s complicated. It’s the same way ppl I know who I consider good people continue to maintain loving relationships with viciously racist/bigoted family members. It’s difficult for me to understand because I’m one of the target of those people’s rage and I don’t see how their evil can be overlooked by anyone, but “good people” manage to overlook behaviors in their loved ones they wouldn’t in others.
No one should believe any “sources” for Omid Scobie’s fanfic. He got the same sources we do. And after how Meghan’s lawyer told the judge the pain that fictional book was causing in her client’s life, Scobie and his co-writer’s opportunistic ass can f–k off forever!🤬
Wow! I didn’t know that Meghan’s lawyer said that of the book. I knew it had to have been difficult considering it caused her to be blamed for it being in existence simply because it wasn’t hostile towards her. She was accused of being the co-author to the book and it was even brought up as evidence in her case against AP. What was most appalling about the entire thing is that it was obvious to even casually royal watchers after the Oprah interview that Meghan didn’t contribute to the book. The book had nada information to share and all of it’s content was taken from headlines with speculation and fan fiction to fill in the gaps.
The Queen has been passing things off to Charles for awhile now. We don’t actually know how with it she really is. The people who would know that aren’t going to say that the Queen is having any kind of trouble whatsoever. She’s the head of state. They don’t want her to be seen as weak even if she is. Harry openly talking about how controlled she is struck a nerve. It doesn’t just effect how the Royals are seen, but also the UK.
At this point, I’d say she is just a figure head and that’s why Harry doesn’t blame her. She probably doesn’t bother with reading papers and such anymore. Likely, the only thing she does is hang out with her dogs and horses and just does what she is told by the courtiers without question. So, she’s only hearing about what is going on through very biased sources. She should do the right thing and step down, but she clearly won’t.
Agree. I think it’s pretty obvious that the Queen is just a figure head and things have been run by Charles for a while now. Harry knows this situation better than us or “sources” and I believe him and Meghan. I have no reason not to.
Yeah, I sometimes feel like even people who support the Sussexes don’t actually listen and believe what they say. Some people seem so glued to their idea of what happened and who the Sussexes are that they don’t want to listen to the things that H&M have said that contradict their view. It’s like their swinging the bar too far in the other direction.
@Ainsley7 Supporters of Harry and Meghan are not a monolith and people can support someone without buying everything they’re selling so to speak. I don’t have to agree with everything Harry and Meghan to be a supporter of theirs and nor do I believe they expect that from anyone.
I think Elizabeth is a crap human being, always has and always will be and I don’t particularly care how Harry and Meghan feels about her, it doesn’t change the fact that she’s a crap human being.
@Ginger — that’s why Harry’s relationship with his father is now pretty much destroyed because he knows Charles is pulling all the strings and was behind Sussexit (along with William), not granny. Hence, Harry’s love for her. He probably feels sorry for her because she’s been relegated to a position where her life is pretty empty except for her horses, dogs and a coddled brat of a son who sexually abused underage girls.
@Ainsley7 I totally agree with your sentiment.
As far as I’m concerned, if they’re fine with TQ and since I, nor anyone else do not have access to inside information then I’ll believe what’s being said by M&H. If they decide to say otherwise then different story.
100%. Whenever this debate crops up, I can’t help but think of the video where the Queen is at an engagement cutting a cake with a sword (and holding it upside down, at that) as Kate and Camilla watch on with huge fake smiles plastered to their face to hide their horror.
The Queen is the head of state, and Harry’s former commander in chief as a soldier. We see how the RRs lose it over the most innocuous statements or actions from the Sussexes – if they actually started publicly disparaging the Queen, laying the smear campaign at her feet, or worse – exposed that she was senile and not in charge of the clothes she wears let alone strategic daily comms, it would be tantamount to treason and the war the RRs would start wouldn’t serve the monarchy, Britain, OR the Sussexes. The Sussexes know that, and act/react accordingly.
People say that the Queen was behind Harry not being able to lay the wreath, or signed off on bullying claims against Meghan, but none of those were direct, provable actions of the Queen – they were typed statements from BP, and we all know that the Queen didn’t type them up herself.
Even at the height of her power (decades ago) the Queen was an uneducated, easily suggestible coward who leaned heavily on her husband, advisors, and courtiers to guide her decision making and strategy. Now in her 90s, she’s not scouring the internet for nuanced takes on the Sussex situation or Brexit or any of it, and I’d highly doubt she’s even still receiving (or reading) full newspapers – at best she’s getting a clip package of highlights chosen for her by her advisors, meaning they can pick and choose and manipulate the scope of her outlook through what they choose to show her. Any decision or opinion she forms is heavily influenced if not completely manipulated. Harry told us as much, and we should believe him.
From the moment that Charles (and Andrew) pushed out her long-time secretary Christopher Geidt in 2017, Charles has been increasing his influence and control over BP operations. Charles thinks he can keep his hands clean by having BP send out statements knowing they’ll be attributed to the Queen, but he’s the one the courtiers answer to now. The Queen is the one going to engagements and cutting cakes with swords.
It sounds like she’s incapable of turning on the TV to watch the local news. I really doubt she’s all that sheltered. Not to mention the 3-4 newspapers and govt. missives she apparently goes through every morning. She’s a queen and needs to at least be aware of what’s going on internationally. I”m sure she’s read, heard or seen some of what Harry and Meghan were going through.
I do not understand PH reasoning when it comes to his grandmother the Q.. but I also do not understand the rest of the family either. They are despicable and seem to turn on each other at a drop of a hat to save their own disgusting choices from coming to light.
I don’t either.
There are many things the Queen has had the power to stop and chose not to.
Allowing the BBC to continue briefing about innocent baby Lilibet name, – the story was NEVER taken down – because Jonny Dymond’s sources are solid is the most recent example.
Anyway, Harry seemed eager to engage a cold William at the statute unveiling and has said he would be back with the BRF, if they had been more understanding so……..🤷♀️🤷♀️🤷♀️
It’s his family and is what it is.
I actually think him being able to engage William so cordially is a sign he IS over the institution. No bigger sign of having healed than being unbothered.
With distance and therapy, you also begin to see how much your tormentors suffer. No one can met that kind of cruelty towards a pregnant woman and have their soul intact. I think he and Meghan feel sorry for them, which is a kind of emotional maturity I’m not capable of.
Agree Sunrae. Harry was amazing during the unveiling. He was happy and unbothered. The press were hoping he would be stressed or upset or even guilty. He gave them NONE of that. It was genius. He came, unveiled the statue and then left right after. Perfect.
These people are wired very differently. The Queen is in her 90s now and we can question how much say she really has today. But she was a strong and powerful woman in her day. If Harry (and William) managed to love her knowing how she and the institution treated his mother, if he was able to still love and look up to his father and if was able to accept,kiss and seemingly respect Camilla in public then its not surprising.
The Queen is very very old. Harry isn’t going to upset her when he is there for Philip’s funeral by demanding accountability. He knows that each time he is with her could be the last time they see each other. Harry has gone after the institution in as public a way as possible, and we may see him go even harder at Charles and Wills once the Queen is gone. For now, Harry will stick to the tea and crumpets, petting the corgis/dorgis and scrolling through his phone photos of the family and the chickens when he’s with his Grandma like most people do. Also, Harry hears how Charles and Wills talk about the Queen and her faculties; he must know the extent to which those two are willing to use and manipulate her, and he feels sorry about that.
Harry is walking thru a minefield. We really don’t know his true feelings. Saying anything negative about the Queen right now would be disastrous for him on all levels.
I think people get upset that Harry isn’t acting like THEY want him too, like they know this situation better than he does. That’s laughable. Going after the Queen would be disastrous, as you said. He is probably doing the safest thing right now. I’m actually shocked by what he has said about the institution so far.
I’ve said it before but I think both him and Meghan compartmentalise their relationship with HM. So while they may be upset at Queen Elizabeth II, they’ve got nothing but affection for Granny Lilibet. Now we can argue about whether or not that’s right for them to do that or not but that’s what they’ve done.
Edit: And they know the situation much much better than any of us so they probably know when the queen does something and when “the queen” does something
I think a lot of people overestimate how much a 97-year-old woman is actually in charge of . Could she have taken a stand in her 70s or 80s? Yes. Late 90s would be incredibly difficult because just existing is such an effort even for people with a lot of help. I think her inviting them to stay during the royal breakup and doing the zoom calls is the real her. But she’s been taught her whole life that the courtiers keep the institution running, As you age, you’re more trusting, sometimes almost childlike in that trust. I don’t think she’s capable of taking a stand against Charles, WIlliam, Andrew, or her courtiers.
But then, Harry has no one. Meghan cannot fulfill all the roles a person has in their life. I think The Queen stepped in as best as she could (and her personality allowed) as a mother figure, and that’s something that people don’t push aside easily. I’ve met people who’ve had difficulties with mother figures and for better or for worse, they love and care about them deeply. So, why begrudge Harry for it? I honestly think she’s the only person he has and when she dies, Harry will have no one. No one will care for Harry the way she did (even if it mas minimal); not Charles or his wife, obviously not William or Kate and much less his uncles and aunt.
I can understand and agree with this point. It’s quite sad when you think about it in this way.
Meghan also made it clear that she had no problem with the Queen or Prince Philip in the Oprah interview. So it’s not just Harry. Also, I don’t think he has gone out of his way to claim some great relationship. Mostly they have pushed back at the tabloids trying to use the poor Queen narrative to paint him/then as being rude/disrespectful/blindsiding/snubbing etc. The tabloids try to frame everything as being the Sussexes vs. The Queen in order to inflame hatred against them. Harry is the one who brought up th history of colonialism in that QCT zoom and how it had to be discussed. I have no doubt in my mind that the “service is universal” pushback to the Queen Sussexit statement was Harry. Also, from my perspective the main cause of the abuse of the Sussexes is William/KP/Courtiers/Tabloids. Could/should the Queen have done more to shut the crap down. ABSOLUTELY. But I think his being angry at the people starting and then fueling the abuse makes sense. As for this newest bit of supposedly “inside” info from Scobie and Durand. More embellishments on their part. Harry was staying at frogmore so of course he spent most of his time with Eugenie and Jack. As for the “precious” moments with the Queen. Both times he was in the UK. The Queen was spotted driving down to the Frogmore estate so it was presumed he saw her. And it had become clear that they talk on a regular basis. Note no additional details by Scobie and Durand. So once again they are taking info that is in the public domain making assumptions based of that and presenting it as new info.
I’m over Omid! The stories in this epilogue are nothing but old tabloid fodder that he’s padded out to rake in some extra dough. I wish we’d stop treating him as though he has exclusive insights into H & M’s life when he just copies and pastes stories from other gossip outlets without the obligatory outrage.
I think there was a time when he might have connections/insights/direct line to MH. I feel like that time has passed. I think they are bunkered down in CA and not talking to anyone (or at least, anyone that would leak information they didn’t approve).
I agree. I think the only journalist who had real access was Tom Bradby. H&M might have allowed others to talk to Omid but I don’t think they had a personal relationship with him.
It is also strategic as Harry and Meghan know there is no benefit to attacking the Queen directly. It’s why the courtiers were so upset Harry and Meghan successfully separated the Queen as grandmother from the institution. Disrespect of the Queen is the one PR tool the courtiers have left that is somewhat effective, which is why they tried it again over the baby name.
@SH: Exactly.
Also, I think it important to recognize that Harry was raised in a toxic/abusive family/institution. From the outside looking in it easy to criticize how people try to navigate their way out of toxic situations. I would hope that Harry would be granted some grace from the standpoint of what he is trying to do is one of the most difficult things anyone can do. From a practical and psychological standpoint dealing with toxic families can be extraordinarily difficult. All of which is complicated by the fact that he is doing this with the world watching and his family has power/influence and the protection of the media and the government. I’m not saying he should be above questioning/criticism. Just saying given the difficulty/complexity of his situation a little understanding is warranted.
+1
100% agree with this statement. I can attest to an abusive and toxic family situation that gets weirder by the day. I have my own family and have had years of therapy and tried to break the pattern of what I have heard and seen. My siblings aren’t as lucky and have continued with the same toxicity we lived through with their own families. Sometimes, you remember things and it can send you back in time and it is frightening. I feel for Harry. His life has been documented for the world to see. Also, we own a business. I have several in-laws telling us weekly that my children should be working and taking it over … it drives me crazy. Just because one chooses a career to create and business does not mean that it is right for everyone in that family. William had to endure that role, and I am sure Harry is relieved because he clearly has bigger and broader interests than the family business.
They really can’t stop writing about our Prince huh 😌
Again with the Queen’s life of duty and service. Can anybody name something she has done that has real impact on those in need? I don’t get the worship of somebody who could have made a great difference in the world, especially for other women, but seems to be only about ceremony and “protocols”.
She’s been used as a weapon by patriarchy and she’s allowed it for power and influence. As for the worship, it’s habit brought on by familiarity. For most of the UK, the CW and even the world, she’s always been there so that lends sentimentality for some. I can’t stand the woman and feel like her longevity in the UK has held back progress there to the establishment satisfaction and we shouldn’t underestimate the way such a influential country has affected the world.
Did he really get to spend decent time with Betty given UK was still in lockdown then?
Richard Palmer said in 2019 that Liz would visit H&M at Frogmore to try & settle them. I wonder if she sympathised with them but said her hands were tied & that’s why (apart from the elderly granny thing) she gets a pass. I suspect when it comes to Harry& William she defers to Charles to deal with as boss. So maybe part of the reason he’s more hurt by Charles is not only was he his direct report but because that is his parent too. I also think Harry being an army guy has another layer of respect for Betty as head of armed forces which he alluded to when he said he wouldn’t blindside her & how she’s his commander in chief.
I’m not convinced Betty’s been 100% in charge for a while or it’s clear her orders aren’t followed to some extent. This explains how Charles & Andrew were able to oust her private Secretary Geidt & replace him with Charles guy, Edward Young. She also had apparently ordered no briefings against H&M after Oprah which lasted about 5 minutes. KP&CH have definitely found a way to do their response to the Oprah interview through Lacey & briefings to the press.
I think part of the recent mess is because of factors like Geidt going, Philip retiring & staff changes at KP resulting in a power struggle with people jockeying for position.
In response to Harry talking about his& Meghan’s Dec 2019 visit to Betty being cancelled Camilla Tominey said the courtiers felt entitled to do that as part of their job& run interference on their relationship. They also apparently found it frustrating that he was separating the queen from the institution. Which could be true- they shouldn’t be separated but also tells me they likely use the queen for cover for decisions third parties make/ briefings they give the press. Like it was pretty clear Betty knew about Lili’s birth & the courtiers were pissed they couldn’t leak it to the press so they had Richard Kay suggest she was hard of hearing etc. The way they flipped from describing her as a decisive leader to an old biddy let me know the courtiers have A LOT of power.
With Andrew it’s different. Not only is Betty wanting to protect her son, I think the establishment as a whole is protecting him and has been for a while which is why records of where he was night Virginia claims she was trafficked to him in London were allegedly deleted by police. It’s also why the press are quite muted in coverage of him-even language used for his stories & not just for legal reasons. Prime ministers like David Cameron & Boris Johnson defended him long after the Epstein related accusations first came out. Charles may quietly fade him out but he’s not going to make him face US authorities any more than the queen would.
As for the bullying review- the claims came from KP but Camilla Tominey said KP had formed an alliance with Edward Young. I suspect Young is the person Lacey claims hated Meghan& he is probably the BBC’s source on Lilibet name gate& claims that Meghan radicalised Harry. So I wouldn’t be surprised if he went all in on what KP started especially as the firm as a whole would be interested in discrediting the claims made on Oprah.
It will be interesting after Liz passes to get a full idea of her reign& how much power she really exercised as opposed to those around her.
I think Betty is more Sussex squad than we realise but it’s frustrating as to why she does nothing to support him. I see little things like the time after they left when Betty said in the statement she ‘knew for months‘ (in retaliation for the queen being blindsided narrative), also I think the statement after the Oprah interview, I think she refused to sign off on the original one.I remember her blanking Willie and keen at the Christmas photo op and for her to snub them so openly was very telling. I do trust Harry’s belief that his grandmother has his back, but I don’t trust her. It’s mostly her men that are running the show.
Betty wants to protect Andrew, but so do her henchmen hence why Andrew is completely protected. If Betty wants to protect harry but her henchmen don’t, then harry isn’t protected.
Too many powerful forces were upset with Harry & Meghan for Betty to take up for Harry even if she wanted to (doubtful). the heirs didn’t like them getting more attention & it seems at least William & some key palace staff didn’t like Meghan & wanted her gone. Plus Harry wasn’t playing the game with the press.
Betty was never gonna risk upsetting her heir(s) or the press & potentially have them start going nuclear on the firm in retaliation defending Harry. her staff probably wouldn’t allow her to anyway.
The moment he fell out with William & Charles distanced himself probably made him quickly realise things couldn’t remain as is. as with no internal backing the press-who are used to having to be restrained about the royal family so given free reign at a royal- would always be relentless with Meghan.
People have to remember that the Queen is respected by leaders all over the world. Going after her would be disastrous for H&M.
In reality this “family” is complicated. We have no idea their inner workings. We only have what M&H have told us and they say they have no problem with her. They’ve been very clear about that.
Maybe in the future someone will rehash some of the Queens failings esp with Andrew but that won’t happen anytime soon and I don’t see anyone willing to do that.
Omid already said in court that he used old tabloid stories for his book. This is just a rehash of what’s been said before.
I feel bad for Harry, he has just left home, and has a lot of growing up to do, in truth he has left all his family behind and the Queen is really his only link to family, he can’t count on his brother or father for any type of support and this is a very risky thing he has done. So he probably needs a touchstone to something familiar. He and Meghan are building a life together and at the same time he cannot lay all his burden at her feet. They are truly a unique couple. On the flip side Meghan has her Mum as a touchstone, so when things got bad she could always touch base with her. My hope is that Harry learns to stand steady before TQ passes. Because the true test will come then. My brother went off the rail when his dad passed as he was his touchstone. So I can see it from that point of view. It’s something he needs regardless of what we as outsider perceive of his actions.
@Lili, I wouldn’t depend too much on the repetitive tripe that comes from the scrambled brains of “royal experts”. He hasn’t just left home – approaching 2 years now that they left. He’s more grown up than his royal family counterparts (and the British Media). He got married, moved away from the family prison, earns his own money (he has several real jobs over the ones that are tax payer funded), he and Meghan are paying for their own home, raising kids…
I’ve seen it come up a couple of times now here. A poor Harry, all alone thing that feels like a false concern. Being related to people by blood does not mean that they are people you need to have in your life or have your back/best interests in mind. He has been cultivating & developing real friendships for a long time now outside of the royal family. Anyone who actually chooses to listen to him knows that.
If he doesn’t want to burden Meghan with everything, I’m certain he has people in and outside of BetterUp to talk to. He has Nacho, Prince Seeiso, friends I don’t know the names of, army friends, non army friends… People who have helped him over the past two years is pretty obvious-it certainly wasn’t 99% of his blood relatives.
Granted, it’s not the same as CarolE’s lap.LOLLLLZ
Peter is the favourite grandchild. She is very close to all of them apart from William.
But is the Queen really the head of the Firm right now? She appears to be more of a figurehead with Charles running things. Thus the reason Harry is super upset with his father and of course his brother.
Honestly, I think after the Queen passes away, and a respectful mourning period has passed, Harry will stop guarding his tongue so carefully as to why he stayed so resolute in his defense of her behaviours in all this.
That is a man who KNOWS. That’s why that whole dusty palace of cards trembles every time someone gives him a microphone or a platform. Because he knows every secret, the location of every skeleton.
But he also truly does love his grandmother, truly did love his grandfather. So he kept schtum. But I see absolutely zero percent chance of him continuing that stance once she’s gone and he’s had a chance to properly mourn her.
One wrong word from Charles, one nasty look from William, one snide comment from The Limpet (as Harry famously called her), and King Harry will start beheading.
I completely agree!
I’m not sure why Harry’s actions towards his grandmother remain confusing. If you’re thinking strategically and long-term, it makes perfect sense for his family’s standing, safety and commercial endeavors. Distancing himself from his elderly, recently-widowed nan who happens to be the literal physical embodiment of the crown, would certainly make Sussex supporters happy but they wouldn’t be the ones dealing with the fallout come the queen’s sad but inevitable death.
At the level Harry’s playing, with his family’s safety and legacy in mind… it makes tactical sense to maintain, and very publicly so, close ties to the queen.
Yes, even if one thinks short-term, there doesn’t seem to be any value in going after the Queen, or even Charles and William, unless it’s to counter an attack from their end. Harry and Meghan got out successfully, they don’t need anything from the RF, and they aren’t revolutionaries who want to take down the monarchy. If people in the UK and the Commonwealth nations have a problem with the RF, they can deal with it themselves.
She’s his grandmother and I don’t understand why anyone would expect him to react to her public persona. Most people protect the ones they love in public ( re: Andrew & Mummy). I don’t think their relationship is such that he would ever call her out in public but perhaps in private he sees and understands the problematic things about her. It’s unnecessary for him to publicly shame her IMO. And as someone whose followed and studied the BRF and the monarchy for 50 years let me tell you it is the Men in Grey who are firmly in charge of both Buckingham Palace and the monarchy.
Kaiser I agree with you 100.
And the sad thing is the family and the courtiers know that she is his blind spot.
I believe Harry genuinely adores his grandmother, but perhaps there is something tactical in this, too. Also, I take issue with Harry’s benign stance toward his father, the man who really did yank Harry’s and his family’s security (and Harry survived, so Philip couldn’t say Harry asked for his security to be dropped, as he successfully did with poor Diana). If I were Harry, I would connect the dots between he and his mother’s treatment by Charles and NEVER speak to him again.
Queeny is a puppet. She says and do whatever she told to do.
Maybe, betty did help harry and meghan transtioning in meghan role, and lastly severe all the ties for harry so that he can ran away.
When she dies, i hope harry will wrote a book about her.
Yup. Harry came *this close* to explaining just how little control the Queen actually has in the Oprah interview. That hesitation when asked if the Queen can’t just do as she wants was telling.
That’s what the ‘duty and service’ talk is all about. She has dutifully done what she was told in service to the stability of the British Government for decades. The monarch in our constitutional monarchy actually trying to wield personal power themselves – as opposed to the legal team asserting and protecting the Crown’s rights and privileges – would genuinely trigger a constitutional crisis.
She has diplomatic influence, but only over those who respect her. It has no effect on the likes of Boris Johnson, who respects no-one.
I think when it comes to harrys relationship with the queen I always trust that harry himself knows what time it is, we can only speculate. I think most of what the ‘queen’ does is actually her men who are pulling the strings and she goes along with it. I wish he didn’t name his daughter after her though, because I’m worried there will come a time when she herself will properly betray him and he will be hurt and regret it.
The best pr the queen has had for the past few years was harry naming his daughter after her, which the courtiers hated because it exonerates her from their racist hate campaign against Meghan, which goes to show that the queens men don’t have her best interests. They all use the queen to hide behind and they don’t want her to be seen as having a good relationship with harry.
Anyway the queen still sat back and did nothing to help him, but she was quick to jump in the back seat with Andrew the day Epstein was ‘suicided’.
I think Harry loves his grandmother but also sees they have a very complicated relationship. He may have good childhood memories with her that he associates with comfort and safety, but I like to think that he is also very aware that she has done the most to protect Andrew while doing nothing to protect him and Meghan.
Meh. I think the queen still holds all the power because if she didn’t, Charles would already be sitting in her place. She might be handing off some things but she’s still head of the royal family and the monarch – she’s still THE POWER. I also think she’s two-faced, plain and simple. She feels compelled to be kindly to (“poor”) Harry in his presence but I think she disapproves of most of what he & Meghan do and say when it comes to any independence or mental health or any of that. She wants royals to submit to whatever is good for her and the royal family, even if they must live in misery because of it. It doesn’t fit her do-gooder self-image to be less than kindly to motherless grandson Harry when he’s with her but behind his back, she’s definitely not amused by the Sussex “antics” and permits her courtiers to sharpen their axes and swing. (lol – my speculations anyway!)
You don’t understand how the monarchy works. Charles actually has nothing to gain by ascending the throne at this point – he has way more freedom and co trip over his life in his current position as Prince of Wales.
I think we’re talking about different issues. My comment mentioned Charles but was not about Charles. He may have a bigger involvement as she ages and as you say he may not want to ascend the throne but that has nothing to do with my comment at all. I don’t care if he wants it or not, he just happens to be first in line and that is the only reason I mentioned him. It’s known that she’s handing over more responsibilities to him. But, as I said, Elizabeth is still the reigning queen, full stop. I personally don’t believe she’s some out-of-touch powerless old woman, unaware of anything going on in her family or kingdom, while everyone else pulls all the strings for her. Charles? Who cares. Not the topic of my comment.
(this tried to double post, sorry)
Compartmentalize. Denial. “Never go against The Family.”
Or, he has personal experience with her that we do not, therefore as a grown man who has been through years of therapy? He makes his own decisions in full knowledge and understanding of why he makes them.
How the Queen lost her voice and influence in the Prince Harry and Meghan saga ?
She totally lost control of the narrative to the tabloids, royal commentators, and media personalities due to her failure to respond to the often unjust, humiliating and defamatory criticisms of Meghan in the media from the onset. The criticisms are defamatory as they are targeted to lower the public estimation of Meghan and subject her to hatred, contempt and ridicule, and as someone to be shunned and avoided in society. And yet the Queen and the her Royal Family remain silent.
‘Never explain, never complain.” This royal motto which was conceived during the genteel world of 1930’s, is grossly out of place in today’s media driven world.
As a follow up to my comments above
Is the aging Queen who is in her 90’s to be blamed solely?
Nope. The Queen was not properly advised by her courtiers, her heirs, the cabinet on how to respond to the criticisms of Meghan when she joined the Royal family as Prince Harry’s wife. The criticisms of Meghan became a ‘national sport” where anything can be said with impunity.
Why do we think this is true? If this is just a story put out to make the queen look good, it’s not like Harry is going to come out and say ‘Nah, I didn’t find the moments that previous at all’.
You can love and respect family members that let you down. Doesn’t mean you’re overly sentimental about them