Crown Princess Mary speaks about the title issue in the Danish royal family

Denmark’s Crown Princess Mary decided to comment on her mother-in-law’s decision to strip one princess and three princes of their Danish royal titles and royal styles. Last week, seemingly out of nowhere, Queen Margrethe declared that the four children of her younger son Prince Joachim will no longer have royal titles. Initially, Margrethe made it sound like this had been in the works for months and that everyone was well aware of the situation. Joachim and his ex-wife disagreed with Margrethe publicly about that, saying no, they either didn’t know or weren’t given much notice. Something I appreciate is that this controversy hasn’t been billed as “Crown Prince Frederik and Mary are orchestrating Joachim’s demise!” I mean, imagine how easy those “palace intrigue” stories would be. So far, it just seems like an issue between Joachim and QM. That might change though, especially if Crown Princess Mary continues to talk about it publicly:

Crown Princess Mary of Denmark is sharing her thoughts on Queen Margrethe’s decision to strip four grandchildren of their current royal titles — and revealed that her own children may not keep their titles forever. The Queen’s decision does not change the titles for the four children of Crown Prince Frederik, who is heir to the throne, and Crown Princess Mary. Prince Christian, 16, Princess Isabella, 15, and 11-year-old twins Prince Vincent and Princess Josephine will both continue to be part of the royal house.

Princess Mary spoke out about the news affecting her niece and nephews on Friday when she attended the opening of the 6th International Youth Conference “Re-imagine Youth Mental Health.”

“I can understand that it is a difficult decision to make and a very difficult decision to receive,” Princess Mary told reporters, according to Hello! magazine. “Change can be difficult and can really hurt. But this does not mean that the decision is not the right one.”

While Frederik and Mary’s son Prince Christian is second in line to the throne behind his father, their other children may not keep their royal titles forever.

“We will also look at our children’s titles when the time comes,” Crown Princess Mary, 50, said. “Today we do not know what the royal house will look like in Christian’s time, or when Christian’s time begins to approach.”

[From People]

“Change can be difficult and can really hurt. But this does not mean that the decision is not the right one.” Yeah, again, by the sound of it, this wasn’t a discussion between Margrethe, Joachim and his kids. I would argue that perhaps it IS the right decision, simply done in a horrible way to make it appear as if a grandmother is purposefully snubbing four of her grandchildren, and going out of her way to strip them of their birthrights. What Mary says about her own children is interesting too – I suppose when she and Frederik are King and Queen, they’ll make similar decisions about their own children and grandchildren too. Which… why not make those decisions now? Instead of saying “it’s about Joachim’s children in particular,” why not make it a more general rule on who is a prince and who isn’t. Otherwise the whole thing looks so petty and selective.

Photos courtesy of Avalon Red, Backgrid.

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135 Responses to “Crown Princess Mary speaks about the title issue in the Danish royal family”

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  1. Chic says:

    Given that Joachim’s kids do not receive an apananage and older sons lose the titles at 25, which is already law. All other kids loose styling at 18 yrs including Mary’s kids. Christian’s kids, other than heir, will have none. Phase it in for current and next generations. This heir and spare crap should be done away with because they are disposable and disregarded by monarchs. Talk about generational trauma.

    • Clarissa says:

      Oh that’s an interesting tidbit I hadn’t known before. Is it appanage that already dictated titles?

    • usavgjoe says:

      All of the Royal houses of Britain and Europe are going to be in trouble the years ahead. The old folks who staunchly support their existence worldwide are starting todieoff (Baby boomers) in droves. The young people who will lead things in the nearing years to come, see no need for these archaic institutions that feed off the titsofthe nation and its PEOPLE through their taxes — for these modern times ahead.

      • usavgjoe says:

        They all best follow the lead of H&M and make their own monies in the years ahead.

      • BeanieBean says:

        I am astounded sometimes to see what gets ascribed to my generation (boomer). Where’d you get the idea we’re monarchy supporters? I grew up in the Watergate era (American) & trust no institution, particularly those crafted to ensure a select few get all the goodies in the world.

      • usavgjoe says:

        In ancient times when many of these houses came into existence the peoples lived as many little factions and clans/klans… fighting and killing just for the infraction of walking across someone’s land without permission. So those warriors who appeared strong and were able to subdue the various clans were made rulers by the peoples wanting protection from the many enemies around them. The Rulers and their family lines were made Royal by the Church and the majority of the people. But, we no longer need these seeds of a bygone era. We operate as nations with armies.
        Until greed, lust, and revenge, is wiped from human minds, probably is when there will be no more need for armies

      • usavgjoe says:

        @BEANIE BEAN
        I also am a boomer, but stats show that it is mostly boomers who support these royal lines and their continuing existence, NOT the Younger generations. As yourself I also don’t support the monarchies.
        Don’t believe me, look it up for yourself.

      • equality says:

        @usavgjoe I’m not sure you can trust any of the surveys that establish monarchy popularity. Most seem to be faked and consist of highly selective participants.

      • notasugarhere says:

        Exactly, equality. A 2000 person sample taken from the elderly in the Home Counties is a deliberately chosen, pro-all-white-monarchy ‘sample’. Nothing random or trustworthy in those numbers. Much like Keen’s ‘arly years debacle, with stans from outside the UK filling out the form repeatedly to make the thing look popular.

      • The Old Chick says:

        It’s largely the over 60s who support the monarchy. I live in a commonwealth country and no one here disputes that. It’s more like the over 70s but over 60s isn’t a, stretch (boomers plus) of which I’m one (demographic not monarchist).

      • Kira says:

        Darling, you say “Until greed, lust, and revenge, is wiped from human minds?” Human minds? Hahahahaha. Let’s be specific. MALE minds. Thank u

      • Flowerlake says:

        Millenial here, but I am pro constitutional monarchy.
        The alternative is worse, in my opinion.

        Constitutional monarchies tend (so not: all and always) to do rather well when it comes to democracy and freedom of press etc.
        And yes, I know they are far from perfection, but I rather have this than personality cults of any angry man that gets other angry men behind them, united in hatred to other people.

        As for the removal of titles: I think that’s rather dumb. Give or don’t give people titles at birth, but don’t remove what is already there and against their wishes. That’s bound to cause problems and ill feeling.

      • equality says:

        @Flowerlake And what do you call the situation in the UK with KC and PW getting the press behind them in printing nasty things about H&M? Sounds like a bunch of angry white men united in hatred to me.

  2. Seraphina says:

    She was good until the part about it being the right one. Not her call to make – she can weigh in if and when she and her husband do the same to their kids.

    • Etha says:

      Yes, that part, gave off arrogant vibes.

    • Snuffles says:

      Why couldn’t the Queen say – from here on out, only the heir and the heirs children will have titles?

      • Becks1 says:

        They’re really making this more complicated than it has to be. (Same with Charles). The heir and his/her heir are titled as prince/ss. (For here and the UK, prince). No one else.

        I wonder here if the reason for not touching the other titles is in case Christian doesn’t have an heir? Like if one of his siblings or their children becomes monarch, they want to leave that door open? But IDK.

      • Seraphina says:

        Here’s my question, if QM makes the change, can PF when he becomes king change that? I would assume it has to go through a process but he could as king right?

      • aftershocks says:

        ^^Still, if that’s the reasoning @Becks1, it doesn’t make this sudden announcement any less cumbersome, ill-handled, confusing, and punitive looking. This is especially true if there is already a law in place that would have the older two boys of Joachim and Alexandra losing their HRH Prince titles at age 25. Nikolai is 23. I don’t blame him for feeling dismissed and punished by so publicly removing the titles now. It also serves no purpose to take away the titles from the younger two children of Joachim & Marie, when they are already due to have their titles removed at age 18.

        Again, it seems like an unnecessarily cruel and punitive measure coming at this time. Especially, right after QMargrethe attended QE-II’s funeral! 👀 I don’t blame some observers for thinking QM made this move now to somehow make Charles’ desired action of ‘punishing’ the Sussex parents through removing A&L’s titles, seem less harsh. I know this being put forward as a motivating factor has been debunked. But the optics and timing still look horrible. IMO, QMargrethe deserves to receive backlash for how she has pushed this forward sooner, a legal provision is already in place for the children’s HRH Prince/ Princess titles to lapse.

    • LeeLee says:

      It works for me because it doesn’t mean that she is right either. I just see her as agreeing with the Queen’s decision.

  3. Chloe says:

    They really should limit royal titles to direct heirs only. Siblings and cousins should be expected to work for a living from birth.

    • Millennial says:

      Really they should do away with monarchy all together. If it requires a parent to give one child a bunch of special privileges and be “the chosen one” while all the other kids don’t get that… that’s toxic and dysfunctional af. People should abdícate for the sole purpose of not doing this to their children and siblings.

  4. equality says:

    It’s funny because it refutes the whole concept of royalty-the “special” blood lines, born to rule. Here is CP Mary (not a born royal) keeping a title and blood-born royals losing the titles.

    • Seraphina says:

      Yes, and so what’s the point of it all – this antiquated system? Which was born for purposes no longer needed since times have changed.

    • Isabella says:

      What happens to Mary if/when her husband dies? Does she become dowager queen and trucked off to a little cottage?

  5. Alexandria says:

    Follow the HOS model. Only the monarch and heir should have security, titles and 1 house that belongs to the state.

    This was a good idea but executed badly.

  6. EllenOlenska says:

    So does your “ royal” blood just Peter out once you are 25? Obviously there are issues around security etc when children are young and certainly taking people off the public payroll has great merit…but to tying the royal title payroll is the problem.

    Because the whole inherent idea that “some people are more special than others” relies on that royal blood concept. So if you’re a prince, you’re a prince. You’re may not be on the royal dole but you don’t magically stop being a prince.

    And I mostly have a good opinion of Mary, this is one fight she needs to stay out of.

  7. Amy Bee says:

    Joachim and Marie did a new interview where they said that their relationship with Frederick and Mary is complicated. So there is Palace intrigue and it would seem there are issues between the two couples. It’s not as simple as a grandmother looking out for her grandchildren. It seems there is a power struggle. Apparently Marie said two years ago that it wasn’t their choice to move to France.

  8. ML says:

    Possibly a weird take on this: My experience when you do business with Danes (and other Scandinavians) is that important decisions often go through many layers of the company (possibly everyone). Looking at a royal family situation (which is sort of weird because of the hierarchy), I can’t imagine that only QM was the one behind the decision or that it was made quickly, unless the royal family functions “less Danish” if that makes any sense. Gut feeling = a lot of people signed off on this and thought it was the right thing to do and it’s been in the works for a while.

  9. Harla A Brazen Hussy says:

    A couple of thoughts….members of several defunct royal houses still retain and use their titles and those titles don’t hinder their ability to have a career or live their lives. Secondly, if birthrights are “disposable” meaning they can be given and taken away at will, then it really undermines the whole premise of royalty, birthrights, titles and the supreme right of kings/queens. Lastly, this was handled incredibly poorly. I’m rather disgusted that the queen didn’t have the decency to tell her grandchildren of her decision directly, if one has made a decision that will “hurt” someone else, especially one’s grandchildren, then have the courage to speak with them directly, listen to their hurt and acknowledge that you are the cause of that hurt. #AbolishAllMonarchys

    • Meija says:

      This…I so agree tell your grandkids to their face. Have a family meeting. Hash it out before going public otherwise it reeks of the stink of a dysfunction family.

    • JustBitchy says:

      Harla, you give some great points I had not thought of. Thanks for expanding my current tunnel vision!

  10. Kkat says:

    My husband is Danish so I get that royal family’s gossip.
    And apparently Mary hates Marie, and that couple was behind them being “sent” to France.
    Sounds similar to another royal family

    • Chic says:

      Kate and Mary have some similarities when it comes to spending money. I saw an estimate for her handbag collection and it was high hundreds almost a million for a year or two. n. To be expected yet..
      Mary does work and is seen. She seems to out work Fred.

      Marie was the cool aristocratic French girl beloved by French father in law. She has a few charities that she did a lot of work for. Autism and food waste I think she is also a UN ambassador blike Mary. I think Mary had to work a lot harder to integrate herself into Danish society because she is a commoner and Alex, Joachim’s first wife, was a powerhouse when Mary arrived.
      Fred gives cheater and drunk vibes.Joachum seems smarter but arrogant and entitled.. Give discreet cheater vibe and bad $$ manager vibe but could be how he got money from government or Mom

      • Jess says:

        That’s some serious revisionist history on Marie. She’s always been clamoring for more camera time when she’s married to the spare. Yes Mary had to work harder but is golden in the eyes of the Queen. She’s earned her place rightfully so. Joachim pissed off the Queen when he sold his palace in southern Denmark and moved to Copenhagen trying to be some kind of Fab 4 when it wasn’t necessary.

        Mary definitely has high quality taste but so does Marie. Mary just has more royal engagements. Marie and Joachim have only sent their kids to private school and CP couple kids went to state school. She’s not some kind of down to earth, cool French girl. She did an entire photo shoot about dating a Prince before she was even engaged.

        Mary is smart to stand with the Queen as Crown Princess (as well as the Queen’s sister) even if she may personally felt it was a hard choice to make.

      • notasugarhere says:

        Marie doesn’t have a $1million+ handbag collection purchased with taxpayer money like Mary. Marie fit in easier because of her background and her linguistic abilities, which may have made Mary jealous or even more insecure about her own background. Mary does around 90 days of work a year, as the wife of the spare, it would make sense if Marie did less than the CP. Also, Fred and Mary have a nanny per kid minimum while Joachim and Marie do not have any nanny. They hire a babysitter when both of them are at an engagement.

        The property was private property, given to Margrethe personally not royal property. She chose to give it to Joachim and ordered him to be a farmer. He hated it and he sucked at it. He sold the majority interest in it to a trust, maintains small acreage there, and purchased a house in Copenhagen. If she didn’t want him doing whatever he wanted with his private property, she shouldn’t have given it to him.

        Fred and Mary pulled their kids out of school, moved to Switzerland, and were sending their kids to a posh Swiss boarding school. They only came home after criticism when COVID hit. They’re likely sending them away to Fred’s old boarding school in France next year. They’ve already announced only Fred’s eldest will be a working royal, so no reason the titles and HRH shouldn’t have been stripped from the other three F&M kids at the same time.

      • Pilar says:

        @ Jess

        Joachim sold his farm because it was coming up a loss constantly. Also worth noting that he didn’t have a choice in going into agriculture and farming. The queen literally bought that farm for him when he was nine years old and decided that was his future ( not like it was a castle that had been an asset of the crown since forever).
        I don’t know much about Marie but some people here love to portray Joachim and his sons as just living off the crown ( reminds me off how some people portray harry and MM).

        His sons are not professional models as people keep repeating here. The older one just graduated with a BA and is studying for his MBA and the younger one just started university and was previously working as a trainee at a business and shipping company.

      • Jess says:


        You don’t know how much Marie spends because she barely has any public events. She likely has a similar collection of shoes and handbags that she wears when she’s walking the streets of Paris.

        Marie and Joachim barely do any events so of course they don’t need a full-time nanny and only a babysitter. I also don’t care how many nannies M/F because they are the CP couple and are required to travel more. Stop mommy shaming. I also have no problem with Isabella and Christian having adult handlers as teens. It will keep them out of trouble.

        I know they were going to that Swiss school just like Leonor went to a posh school in Wales (and other royal kids, they are royal). So what? I think it was nice that all the kids got to go and not just Christian so they can feel included.


        He sold the farm but the point of him living in southern Denmark was to strengthen the bond of the royal family with that area. He picked up and moved to Copenhagen where Daisy and M/F do most of their events. They weren’t needed there and shot themselves in the foot. Yes Daisy pushed them out to France because they weren’t doing anything in Copenhagen and couldn’t even figure out something to do.

        Nikolai has been walking running and doing commercials. He might not be professional but he is earning money as a model. I’m sure you’ve seen his hotel chain commercial.

      • notasugarhere says:

        He sold the majority of the farm to a trust, he maintains small acreage AND the right to live in the house X amount per year. That’s what he and Marie were doing, splitting their time between Copenhagen and the country house. They’re not the heir couple, they don’t have nannies, Joachim had an outside job. Them working less than Fred and Mary makes sense. It also sounds like Mary wanted Marie working less and being less visible, which is on Mary not Marie.

        Daisy hasn’t cut off the Greek arm of the family, so Nikolai’s modeling and commercials aren’t the reason behind the title change.

        You were claiming Fred and Mary were sending their kids to public school, I was pointing out they were sending them to Swiss posh boarding school. And that they’re likely sending them to posh boarding schools in France. So whatever time they spent in public school? Was never intended to be permanent and was a political choice.

      • L4Frimaire says:

        @Nota, does CP Mary really only do around 90 days of work/year? That seems like very little work in any context. Maybe all these royals, regardless of location, consider being “seen” as work.

      • JustBitchy says:

        Fred is total cheater vibes. Google it!

      • Jess says:

        In 2019 Queen M2 worked 116 days and Mary worked 104. In 2018 it was 93 and 95 respectively. That’s pretty much in line with other royal families so certain posters insisting that Mary is lazy is completely not based in reality. If she’s lazy then most other royals are half dead.

        Obviously Mary has 4 kids and the Queen is elderly so I’m not surprised their working numbers are near identical.

      • Jess says:


        The CP kids went to an international school for one winter term in the start of 2020. Fred sent everyone home because of Covid and the kids went back to their state school. Christian goes to a public gymnasium now. Isabella goes to a private school for gymnasium but her primary was state school with her siblings from age six to 15. You don’t seem to know all the facts. None of the CP kids will be going to boarding school in France.

        All of Joachim’s kids have only gone to private schools.

        Marie was never going to have as many engagements or foreign trips as Mary. She knows that and I’m sure she likes it that way.

      • equality says:

        @Jess Mary’s numbers are less than half of the working days that an average worker in Denmark of her age works so, I guess, the “most other royals are half dead” is the winner.

      • The Old Chick says:

        I just looked at royal dish. It’s a lot! They hate Mary, go on an on about fillers and botox and yet praise shopped pics of Kate to the heavens. Someone even cited the CJ pics from PS funeral saying how gorgeous she is. No idea why they decided to pile on Mary. I assume they hate meghan, wasn’t game to look.

      • Jess says:


        Mary is not an average worker; she’s the Crown Princess. If the Danish people don’t like having a royal family they can always vote them out. Her approval rating at one point was 82% so obviously the Danish public doesn’t have an issue with her work schedule.

      • equality says:

        @Jess I guess, it is up to the Danish people. Personally, I wouldn’t like way over-compensating someone to do what passes for royal “work”.

      • notasugarhere says:

        That’s my point, equality. They’re not exactly breaking a sweat, but her fans insist she ‘works hard’. But that’s one thing she has in common with Kate – her fans make all kinds of excuses.

    • Harla A Brazen Hussy says:

      @Khat, do you know why Mary dislikes Marie? Is there any other gossip that you can share?

    • Chic says:

      @ Jess. I wouldn’t be surprised if Marie is subjected to revisionist history. I used to follow the Danes on The Royal Dish..the commenters always gave Mary the Meghan-lite treatment and adored Marie even though there was some issue about about when Marie and Joachim first met even if he and Alex were already on the outs.

      • Jess says:


        Yes Mary was hated on Royal Dish. She definitely was treated as if she some kind of shark who wants to usurp her own husband when in reality she’s smart and hardworking and makes Joachim, Fred, and Marie look spoiled and lazy.

        Mary cared for the twins their first week of grade zero and did royal engagements while Fred was in Australia clubbing and sailing. Just like he was drunk and clubbing the night before the twins christening. Mary actually takes her role seriously. Fred was smart to marry her instead of someone who was just as lazy as he is like William did

        Meghan is similar. She’s smart and hardworking and stylish and makes others around her look less than shiny but that doesn’t make her the villain.

      • notasugarhere says:

        Alex was having an affair with much-younger photographer Martin J. The marriage was broken, Margrethe refused to let them divorce until Fred finally married Mary which took years. Alex was already having her relationship with Martin year+ before the separation was even announced, and Joachim wasn’t introduced to Marie until long after that.

      • notasugarhere says:

        Joachim is stuck up, Fred is a drunken cheating frat boy. Mary went after three other princes that night but only Fred took the bait. He was so drunk that night, he cannot remember meeting Mary. Fred cheated on his girlfriend with her, he’s cheated on her ever since. Mary loves the title, access, money, palaces, and attention and she puts up with Fred in exchange. As others have written, she’s the original Kate Middleton.

        Mary’s calendar shows 90-100 days a year of work, so ‘hard working’ is a stretch. Harder working than Fred? Maybe. As for ‘stylish’? That’s what many Mary fans fall back on, her wardrobe. To me it shows Mary herself isn’t interesting, they’re only interested in the extravagant clothes she buys with taxpayer money. Again, quite similar to Keen and her fans. But she knows which side her bread is buttered on, which is why she’s publicly siding with Margrethe and hoping MII won’t remove titles/HRH from Mary’s kids any time soon. She’s also hoping Margrethe will deed the French estate to Mary’s family, instead of to her half-French grandkids through Joachim. Henrik adored Marie, so I’d bet he wanted the vineyard to go to Marie and her kids.

      • SueBarbri says:

        They still hate Mary on RD. In fact, this particular turn of events in Denmark has the whole lot of them twisting themselves into pretzels because they want to agree with what Queen Marge has done, since this provides support for their position on stripping H&M of their titles. And yet, because they like the Schacks and also hate Mary and Fred for being lazy, they can’t quite get there. Honestly, I don’t understand why all these RFs don’t come out with an official statement about all of these title things, similar to the letters patent thing issued by the BRF in the last century. This entire situation is only occurring because Nik and Felix were born BEFORE Fred had children, and were therefore temporarily the heirs to the heir’s heir. So if you want to “slim-down” the monarchy in the future, why not have something written down on parchment paper that says “Children of the second/third born son of the monarch will only receive prince/princess titles (or styles or whatever its called) upon birth if they are in (let’s say), the first five in the line of succession. If these children’s positions in the first five are later supplanted by births of the children of the actual heir, then their prince/princess titles will expire upon their 25th birthday or marriage.” That way, everybody understands the rules and plans accordingly, and nobody winds up hating grandma.

      • Jess says:


        It doesn’t make sense to give the French estate to Joachim when he sold the Southern Danish castle she gifted him. They also lost a tiara when Joachim got divorced. She would be foolish to make that mistake again. It should stay within the institution. Joachim can live off of the money he made when he sold his castle. His work days before the move to France were less than Fred and Mary so he’s no work horse either.

        I get you don’t like Mary, can’t argue with your opinion but none of that is relevant to the fact that Mary is respected by majority of Danes. Joachim has been a Danish Prince his entire life and has a lower approval rating than her (that was before the move to France). Obviously born with a title doesn’t equal likability and respect from others.

      • notasugarhere says:

        The ‘institution’? The French estate isn’t royal property, it was Henrik’s private property. It doesn’t belong to the ‘institution’. If it was Henrik’s wish to give his privately-owned vineyard to his French grandchildren, that’s what should be done. Joachim’s learned his lesson – hire estate managers! Joachim and Marie are not the heir couple, Joachim at least had an outside job, Marie is a stay-at-home mom without staff. Them working less than the lazy heir couple makes sense, frankly.

        Margrethe gave private property to Joachim. It was his private property to do whatever he wanted with. He chose to sell it. If she didn’t want him selling it, she shouldn’t have given it to him without restrictions. That was her choice/fault, not Joachim’s. Margrethe chose to give a tiara to Alex, she chose not to require it be returned in the divorce. Again, that’s Margrethe’s choice and fault, not Joachim’s.

        Much like Diana’s Golden Eldest Child’s spouse, anyone Fred married was going to be praised and embraced. The Danes were hungry for a new young princess, given how they responded to Alex. Mary herself as a person, much like Kate, is irrelevant to that ingrained response. The DRF has lots of support within certain sectors of Danish society, an automatic response based on position not the individual person. Their embrace of lazy Fred and his spendthrift wife are an example of that. They’re the heir and wife, therefore they’re ‘popular’. We see the same ingrained (and in UK case racist) response to the heir William vs. Harry. Nothing to do with the person, has to do with the ingrained support of the institution among dwindling numbers of the population.

        Mary is boring to me. She didn’t have a real career no matter what her fans say. She took her shot, accepted a cheating husband, and revels in the lux life in exchange for a handful of engagements a year.

        Suebarbri, they should make rules and apply them equally. They’ve already said only Christian will be a working royal, so removing titles and HRH from the three younger Fred/Mary kids should happen now too. That would be logical.

      • Jess says:


        Your comments are starting to not make sense. I get you don’t like Mary and that’s fine. It doesn’t really matter that you personally dislike.

        Just like Joachim got a divorce , sold the estate and move to Copenhagen with his new family, Queen M made the choice to take the princely titles from her grandchildren of the non-heir. All choices that have been made.

        It doesn’t make sense to remove the titles from Isabella and the twins when Joachim still has his title. Those kids will be children of a King like Joachim is the son of a Queen. If you want Joachim’s title removed just say that.

        Stop trying to make J/M the Danish H&M. There are a lot of differences. Their similarities are being the spare couple and that’s it.

      • notasugarhere says:

        LOL, not making them the Harry and Meghan of the DRF, although there are some similarities. Something is rotten in Denmark and it (potentially) comes from the direction Mary’s issues around Marie.

        What about this overall isn’t clear? All of these royal houses are going through growing pains and shrinking pains. This generation (Fred/Mary and Joachim/Marie) are the ones experiencing it now in the Danish house. Changes are being made for moving forward. For the future. But those changes have to be logical, fair, equal. Joachim was made to be a working royal for the first 50 years of his life, then thrown out the door against his will. If they weren’t going to have him a working royal his entire life, he shouldn’t have been made to be one for 5 decades.

        The Danes have *already said only Christian will be a working royal*, so removing the titles from all the rest of the grandkids makes sense now. Izzy won’t be a working royal nor will the twins. Remove titles from all her grandkids now before it gets even messier in Denmark. When/if Fred becomes king, the working royals will be Fred, Mary, Christian. That’s it. The royal house has already said that. All the rest have to go earn livings, so remove the HRH and titles now before any of the rest of them turn 18 (or 25 or whatever).

      • SugarHere says:

        @Jess: Thank you for injecting some common sense and moderation to the conversation. I concur unreservedly with your logical rationale that “it doesn’t make sense to remove the titles from Isabella and the twins when Joachim still has his title. Those kids will be children of a King like Joachim is the son of a Queen. If you want Joachim’s title removed just say that.”

        It never ceases to dumbfound me how the person pretending to reason as a poised critical thinker is often the one belching her short-sighted, brutally categorical, and monolithic views for the world to agree. So, thanks again for calling out the highly knowledgeable 🤔 😆 party.

      • JustBitchy says:

        Jess, great info. Mary is a worker and I bet does a lot more
        Than Fred. Were there rumors that the winter in Gstaad (ow whatever lux ski resort) was a bit of a time apart for F and M? Then maybe Covid got in the way. ???

      • Jess says:


        I don’t know what M/F personal relationship is. They seem to like each other in public. The winter term in Switzerland seemed like a great opportunity to spend time as a family for a while the year before Christian was to go to his boarding school in Denmark. Covid got in the way and then Christian got pulled from his boarding school because it had a culture of bullying. It was a bit of a scandal but now he’s back in a state school where he will remain until college/military training.

        Fred’s working days are only a bit less than Mary but he’s the heir and they should be a lot more than her so I do agree he’s self-indulgent with his royal engagements favoring sport and activities he likes.

        Whatever marital issues they have/had, especially in the early years, I’m sure they’ve been able to work out something that works for them by now. They both seem happy and it’s hard to fake that. They engage with each other more like H&M as opposed to W&K.

      • aftershocks says:

        I think the main point is that it’s already written into the Danish law that royal titles for Joachim’s kids would eventually lapse at 18 for the younger kids, and at 25 for the older two boys. Thus, why the need to rush this so publicly? The spare’s kids already don’t receive government money, so nothing much changes in that respect — the titles are just cruelly being stripped sooner than was expected. Thus, it looks like a punitive measure against the parents, which also ends up hurting the kids.

        Clearly there’s bad blood between the married-in spouses, and mucho royal family dysfunction, as usual, within the toxic confines of outdated royal institutions. I see no need to get twisted into pretzels over taking sides with anyone, i.e., Team M+F vs Team M+J. I feel for the kids on both sides, but especially Joachim’s kids.

        Hopefully all the Danish royal kids will grow up to embrace a different world that heavily reforms or does away altogether with the archaic trappings and dysfunctions of royal institutions. Family relationships can be tough enough to navigate w/o the toxicity of monarchical, media, and government apparatuses being so heavily involved in internecine conflicts. 😱

  11. Carnivalbaby says:

    If this isn’t all continued confirmation to abolish Monarchy as it stands currently I don’t know what is. They are all trying to make a system that is no longer beneficial to anyone except a group of people who are now calling the shots on how it benefits them over their own blood relevant. It’s really barbaric in my mind. There are no economic benefits. A tourist’s interest monarchial elements aren’t to see the people or events, it would work just as well with places of interest. Given how the BRF has treated the Sussex Family I have no desire to support anything that will benefit that country.

  12. aquarius64 says:

    It’s interesting that Mary is weighing in on this issue. Whether you land in this, she had the guts to say something. The gossip is now Charles is watching how this title fight is unfolding before he make decisions on titles. He knows he’ll get blowback if Archie & Lili don’t finally get their titles. Charles’ Twitter tag is #KingCharlestheCruel and it trends often.

    • C-Shell says:

      There was even Twitter chatter that Margrethe and Charles discussed this move during QEII’s funeral events, which seems unlikely to me, but I’m American, what do **I** know about the gossip and machinations these outdated monarchs get up to? 🤷‍♀️ CIII will get monster blowback if he takes away Archie’s and Lili’s titles, and he knows it, but I doubt he cares. #KingCharlesTheCruel

      • Carty says:

        Well, the picture of Charles with her at the funeral eve party was one of the few released. Seems suspect with all the world leaders there she’s one of the few pictured with him. Seems calculated to me.

    • notasugarhere says:

      The guts to say something? Or she’s kissing up to Margrethe in case she bows to logic/criticism and strips the extraneous titles from Mary’s three younger kids.

  13. Plums says:

    imo it’s shady to strip anyone of a birthright title they’ve been living with, and just weird for a living title to expire. if they want to change who has a royal title and who doesn’t, it seems like the kind of thing that you make a rule that applies moving forward, for future generations, and leave people’s current titles alone. That way, if a situation like Denmark’s royal family happens in the future, where the spare has kids first, it’s known that his kids won’t be prince or princess unless the older heir doesn’t eventually have kids or whatever. Like, if you only want the King or Queen, plus the direct heirs, don’t make someone a Crown Prince or Princess until you know they’re the heir, you know? And don’t title any of the kids at all until that happens. Something like that.

  14. Beverley says:

    Charles the Bigot. Imagine holding your own grandbabies in such low esteem, you’re willing to go on record to snub and belittle them because they have Black blood.
    History won’t be kind to him.

  15. TheOriginalMia says:

    CP Mary was far more diplomatic than QM. She’s right that the discussion will need to be had about her own children, which is what QM should have said. But seeing as Joachim & Marie were already on the outs with the Royal House, I’m not surprised Daisy didn’t discuss things with them before she made her decision. I do still find the timing of it all suspect. There was literally no need to do this now, especially with the older boys not receiving funding from the DRF. Something else is going on. The truth will come out eventually. It always does.

  16. Gabby says:

    If a royal family has to cut out the FAMILY part in order to survive, they should just kill of the ROYAL part, and a monarch with guts will do that. It is prima facie evidence that there is no place for royals in a just society.

  17. vertes says:

    Why are there any temporary titles? If Prince/ss expires automatically at age 25, what’s the point of ever using it? I think the opposite would be preferable. Wait until age 25 to get the title?

    • Christine says:

      I’m with you, I am completely confused by this entire situation.

    • Tessa says:

      Hedging their bets. If the younger brother has children first, it’s way safer to make them heirs for the time being than bank on the hope that the older brother will eventually produce heirs. What if he doesn’t? So, they make whoever is first an heir for the time being. I guess they figured if the older brother didn’t have children before his nephew turned 25, it wasn’t gonna happen at all.

  18. Jess says:

    I think Daisy knows she doesn’t have much time left and is doing this now so Fred won’t have to.

    Nikolai has been using his title in his modeling work and obviously the Queen doesn’t like it. He even falsely upgraded himself to HRH. It’s unfortunate that Henrik and Athena were caught in the crossfire.

    Once Daisy passes Fred and Mary are on there own because Joachim and Marie will have been permanently settled in France. Christian and Isabella will be teens and young adults and don’t need that type of scrutiny. Mary and Fred will have created more work for themselves until their children are old enough to do royal work on their own.

    • notasugarhere says:

      Margrethe embraces the tacky Greek arm of the family, even gave them Danish titles so they’d be ‘real royals’ instead of deposed ones. Nikolai’s work wouldn’t be why she’s made this choice now, or she’d also be stripping things from the Greek SM startlet branch too. Only Christian will be a working royal, that was announced several years ago. The other three will not be working royals, no need for them to have HRH or titles either.

      • Jess says:

        They were always going to lose their titles. She just sped it up and I think it’s because of Nikolai’s modeling career. You don’t have to agree but that’s my opinion. I don’t see her taking any titles from CP kids just like she isn’t taking Joachim’s title.

      • notasugarhere says:

        They’re all in the line of succession, not removed from that whether or not they have titles. And yes, down in there, Ann-Marie’s tacky grandkids are in the Danish line of succession too.

        Margrethe’s not removing anything from the tacky Greeks and everything they do is awful. It is illogical to say it is because of Nikolai’s work. That’s why I doubt this change is due to Nikolai’s part-part-part time modeling which he’s doing to pay for grad school. We’re talking about a woman who used taxpayer money to purchase her husband’s wine and serve it at govt occasions. Shady move, she has no problem doing things like that to pad her own (or her late husband’s) pocket. Nikolai earning money for grad school isn’t the reason for this change.

        They’ve already announced that only Christian will be a working royal. Not Izzy, not the twins, only Christian. So no, when they get older, Izzy isn’t going to be ‘princess anne’ because she’s never going to be a working royal. They’re getting their act together about that, sloppily, but they’ve already announced that about the three younger kids. What hasn’t followed, and should, is that those three younger kids should also lose their titles and HRH now.

      • Sms says:

        All the Greek royals are referred to Prince/Princess of Greece and Denmark. That included Prince Phillip and Sofia of Spain. It was an agreement made when they offered a Danish Prince the Greek throne. Not sure the Queen can take it back.

      • Grace says:

        Margrethe never gave the Danish titles to the Greek royal family. Those go back to Christian IX, whose son Vilhelm was elected to be the king of Greece. He took the name of George I and died 1913.

    • Pilar says:

      Yeah no that’s not it. First of all Nikolai may have been portrayed as HRH in that ridiculous tone deaf commercial but it not like he goes around styling himself as HRH in his daily life. And certainly that commercial isn’t why the queen yanked the titles from him and his siblings ( that sound like something out of the POC hating royal dish lol)
      In fact him and his brother are some of the more popular members of the royal family.
      And as I said upthread they aren’t full time pro models. They are both students who has done some modelling. And Nikolai said years ago that it was just something he was doing short term while studying.

      I actually think this is the right move ( she should have abolished the whole monarchy) but executed poorly both the timing and the fact that Frederiks younger kids keep their titles.

      • Jess says:

        In her statement she specifically stated that she wanted her grandchildren to shape their own future without the limitations of the royal house. I think that says enough.

        That commercial easily could have been the straw that broke the camel’s back. She also had to be fair and take it from all of Joachim’s kids not just Nikolai.

        You can have your own theories about why she did it so quickly and not waiting until Joachim was more onboard but I think she knows she can’t live forever and no day is promised at her age.

      • Pilar says:

        The straw that broke the camels back? What exactly has Nikolai done that is so bad in you opinion? He’s literally just turned 23 and bar some modelling jobs been studying for his BA and not really made much of a fuss. He’s had the same gf since school and seem quite well adjusted ( at least for a royal lol) especially compared to his uncle with his drunken shenanigans and flirting continuing into middle age ( or so my danish gran tells me)
        And logically why didn’t QM strip the Greek strand of their titles if that commercial incensed her so?
        I don’t know if you’re trying to make the POC kid the villain or QM look racist with your comments…. But that’s kind of how it reads.
        When a less dramatic reading of the situation is that it’s the same push to try and save the royals with a focus on the heir and his fam that’s going on with a number of royals at the moment but just terribly executed by QM.
        If you want someone whose transgressions are seen as so bad she might loose her title you might wanna look to Martha of Norway. Apparently there has been discussions about her continuing to use the title in the royal household there over the last month
        ( according to my gran this was in the papers last month).

      • notasugarhere says:

        Pilar, Martha-Louise just keeps getting worse, doesn’t she? It made sense for her to give up her HRH years ago, which she did willingly when she went out to earn a living. She kept Her Highness and the princess title, and has been warned repeatedly not to use it for her weird money-making ideas. Now she’s marrying the disgusting fake ‘shaman’ who says kids with cancer deserve it. He also says he can ‘cure’ women of having ‘too many sex partners’ by putting his hands on their genitals and ‘healing them’. The Norwegian royal family needs to do something about her quickly.

      • Jess says:


        Nikolai is handsome but his entire modeling brand is Danish Prince. It’s obvious that she no longer wanted that to be an issue for any of the non-heir grandchildren so she took all of them. She should have just told them to their faces. Fred continues to embarrass himself but he’s the heir, not a child of the spare. The Queen can’t take his title from him.

        I don’t need to look at the Norwegian royals because this is a thread about the Danish royals.

        My God, Anne-Marie married a royal and is the daughter of a King so she keeps her title. Joachim’s kids are grandchildren of a monarch through the spare. It’s not the same.

      • Pilar says:


        According to my gran she has always been this bad its just that now she has a black and bisexual partner. There is def a racial / heteronormative aspect to it. Not that guy isn’t bad but Martha has always believed in this kind of weird and potentially dangerous shit and has been touting said stuff to the public for years while trading on her royal status.


        I dont disagree that his modelling brand is danish prince but thats also not at all my point….
        You’re pushing this idea that Nikolai has been pursuing a “career” as a model and that the loss of a title with interfere with his so called chosen career.
        For someone who is calling out others for history revisionism its a little odd that you continuously ignore the fact that Nikolai is at Uni and has been for the past 3-4 years and refer to his career as modelling…
        The reason I mentioned Martha is because you keep dramatising it as “the straw that broke the camels back!!”, when what we have here is 23 year old kid who did one dumb tone deaf modelling campaign ( My god, indeed!! ) but bar that keeps his nose out of trouble and is actually pretty popular in Denmark. As opposed to Martha who over 50% of the people want to stop representing Norway and is loosing patronages and embarrassing the RF.

      • Jess says:


        You’re fighting over semantics. He’s getting paid to model. It doesn’t matter if he only wants to do it for another few years. The point is that QMII is likely not happy with the commercialization of the HH Prince title coming from the spare’s children (Prince Felix also modeled for a Danish jeweler). If Isabella and the twins want to model in their 20s they may likely have to stop using their titles as well. That seems to be the trend with the monarchies.

        I don’t care about the Norwegian royals and I know very little about them. This is also a thread about the Danish royals so I’m staying on topic.

      • Jess says:


        Pure semantics. Nikolai is earning money modeling and so is Felix. They insist on using their HH princely titles when they could go by just their names and Monsepat added on the end or Joachimsson. It was bound to happen and she sped it up probably because her age is catching up with her.

        This is a thread about the Danish royals, not Norwegian.

      • Pilar says:

        Lol at fighting. Is that we are doing?

        You call it semantics I call it facts. You called modelling his “career”.
        I wouldn’t call bartending your career if you occasionally work as a bartender while studying.
        I honestly dont give a shit about the Danish or Norwegian RF I hope the monarchy is abolished everywhere ASAP. It’s an antiquated idea.
        But I dislike your attempt to malign a young POC kid to defend Mary ( who am sure is great btw I dont have anything against her) or QM . You didn’t really need to blame it on some 20 year old kids to reason that this might have been the right the decision.

      • Jess says:

        Nikolai is not being oppressed by his grandmother or me by stating the obvious and seeing the writing on the wall.

        Daisy does not have a good relationship with her son and some of the choices he’s made over the years. That probably also extends to some decisions that Nikolai and Felix has made in regards to their modeling that they are earning money from. Yes they are also studying which is great (and they’ll need it) but the commercialization has to end. Even Harry doesn’t use HRH in any of his commercial pursuits.

        The titles being removed has nothing to do with Mary so how am I maligning Nikolai to defend Mary?

        You’re claiming not to give a crap about the DRF and want them abolished but you’ve been pretty vocal about wanting children of the spare to the Queen keeping princely titles. Ummmm interesting. I actually find the DRF interesting and that’s why I’m in this thread. I won’t pretend otherwise.

      • Feeshalori says:

        @Jess, I’ve been following this thread with great interest and am wondering if the queen is so displeased with Nikolai over that Raffles ad, what must she think about her great niece who also starred in it, HRH Princess Olympia of Greece and Denmark? Would she also have repercussions for that branch of the family as a result because she’s part Danish princess, part Greek princess of a defunct monarchy?

    • JustBitchy says:

      I don’t think J and Marie do much work as it is. So not a great loss. J seems a bit spoilt- selling that estate or money was a big insight into his true motives

  19. Athena says:

    As the queen, Margrethe can make any decision she wants. As a grandmother she should have met with her grandchildren in person to tell them of her decision. The way she did it equate to firing someone by email or breaking up by text. She should have looked them in the eye. I’m so disappointed in these women monarchs, First Elizabeth now Margrethe.

    The yanking of titles is not the solution. Preparing the spare and the spares heirs for life outside the royal bubble is what all these royal families need to do.

    • Jess says:


      That’s a false equivalency and you know it. Joachim’s kids are in the line of succession. They are featured on the Danish royal website but the deposed Greeks aren’t. Isabella, Vincent, and Josephine will be children of a monarch and will likely do some royal work before Christian gets married and has kids (especially Isabella). Joachim and Marie’s titles are not up for debate. She’s the next Princess Anne and probably should be given a separate title to separate her from whoever Christian and Vincent marries.

      I do believe this is about Nikolai’s modeling campaign. They were all going to lose their title upon marriage or turning 25 but she decided to expedite things.

  20. L4Frimaire says:

    This is the most international news they’ve gotten in a while. At this point it really seems like the Danish royals all want a bit of that spotlight. Whatever the reason for this, it’s been handled clumsily, every one now has to get their side out, and still don’t understand what any of this is about. Like did their parliament demand it, is it personal animus, a budget thing, a way to wind down the entire monarchy? It does make a royal family seem pointless.

    • notasugarhere says:

      Pointless and petty. I wouldn’t be surprised if the DRF were jealous for a little attention, but not this kind of attention. Denmark’s monarchy is hundreds of years old. Margrethe was a young queen too (31 to QEII’s 25). All her jubilees and birthdays ended up playing second fiddle to the bigger ones from the UK cousins. Even the Fred/Mary royal wedding was overshadowed by the fact that Spain’s royal wedding (with high-profile tv journalist Letizia) was at the same time (one week apart).

  21. JMoney says:

    This isn’t the wrong move, its the right one and I don’t think there was ever going to be a “right time”.
    Everyone is saying why Queen Mary is waiting for her children and I think its b/c she wants to see what the world is like when her eldest is 18 and which of his siblings want to serve the crown or break on their own. Is it unfair? Absolutely but who on earth thought monarchy is fair? the one born first gets everything and the others are still incredibly privileged regardless so I dunno how ppl are expecting fairness, equality or a loving family out of any monarchy? What real monarchy behaves this way? I’ll tell you none.

    Also as much “attention” as this story is allegedly getting I’d argue its not getting much engagement outside of royal twitter users b/c again even without titles these kids are already privileged b/c ppl know their association with the monarchy and let’s face it they’re well off so at the end of the day its not a big deal.

    • notasugarhere says:

      Queen Mary? Are you a staff writer for New Idea out of Oz? LOL. Potential future Queen Consort Mary. She doesn’t make this decision, the current monarch does. The royal house announced several years ago that only Christian would be a working royal. Not Izzy and the twins, just Christian. They themselves don’t get to make the decision when they turn 18, the royal house already made the decision for them. No reason to keep titles for those kids either then, if only working royals and future working royals will have HRH and titles. When/if Fred is eventually king, the working royals will be Fred, Mary, Christian. That’s it.

  22. Sms says:

    I saw Joachim’s ex-wife and the 2 boys at the table next to mine last time I was in Copenhagen. The boys are very good looking, as is Alexandra, but she looks hard. The gossip from my Danish friends was that Joachim is the son of the Queen’s lover (echoes of Harry) and he inherited money from this man. They also claim Henrik (the Queen’s husband) was gay, Fred cheats and has a secret child, Mary is fiercely ambitious, her twin were IVF babies, she hates Marie, and while Alexandra was liked for learning Danish quickly, (she’s fluent in German) she cheated on Joachim. Obviously my friends are not monarchists but the Danes sound about as messy as the Windsors.

    • The Old Chick says:

      I think many would assume the twins were ivf, and Fred appears to still be a cheater. I wonder how many royal offspring are floating around the world?

  23. ClaireB says:

    I don’t know anything about the Danish royals except that Mary’s style is 1000 times better than Kate’s. So my question about this weird story and it’s timing is this: If Joachim’s children were going to lose their royal styles eventually, why didn’t he and their mothers prepare them for that? Why is it such a betrayal to lose them sooner rather than later? Seems like it’s mighty important to Joachim and he taught his kids to think the same way.

  24. K8erade says:

    Like many here, I don’t think it’s the wrong move by any means. However, I don’t know if there was any way this would have gone down and not have blown up. In the short term, this does come off as callous and insensitive but in the long term it is the right decision. I think QM may have decided to make this move now so Fredrick and Joachim weren’t feuding when she’s gone. Margarethe is no spring chicken and Fredrick’s time is coming sooner rather than later, so by doing this now, she may be making it easier for Fredrick by making the hard decision regarding her child versus her son making a hard decision regarding his younger brother. I do think that they will be making a rule going forward but I think it will be left up to Fredrick and Mary on how to handle their children’s titles, though if QM does live as long she may have to make the final rule herself. I do think Margarethe is making the decision now because their parents did nothing to prepare them for losing them at 25.

    All the European royals know this isn’t the days of Queen Victoria where there can be 100s of royals down the line. They all have known they need to streamline. This sucks for Joaquim and his kids now but down the line it is the right decision. They deserve to have normal lives and the titles can be anchors.

    • notasugarhere says:

      They announced years ago that only Christian would be a working royal. The other three Fred/Mary kids will have to earn their own way in the world. Making this decision about Joachim’s kids, when the three younger Fred/Mary kids will not be working royals either? It doesn’t make sense. Margrethe is only making the situation messier.

      • K8erade says:

        Sorry @notasugarhere but it makes perfect sense. Especially if the parents in this case (Joachim, Alexandra, Marie) were doing nothing to prepare their children for life outside of royal life after 25 as is thought to be the case. Joachim is rumored to be spoiled, entitled and overindulged and he wasn’t preparing his children for life outside the Danish palaces. Fred and Mary’s kids will not be working royals but are still young but they are direct descendents of an heir to the crown. It makes sense to take a moment to assess what will be a tough decision. I think it’s good to take time to make that decision.

      • notasugarhere says:

        Did you read what I wrote? Only the eldest of Fred/Mary’s kids will be a working royal. The younger three will 1) have HRH taken away 2) have prince/princess taken away 3) have to earn a living too. So why not remove those things from all seven of them at the same time? Mary’s vague words about ‘when it is Christian’s time’ is only muddying the waters, since they’ve already stated only Christian will be a working royal. so Mary is only making it worse for her own children by pretending otherwise.

      • K8erade says:

        * sigh* @notasugarhere Mary isn’t muddying anything. There are decisions to be made. As children of an heir, it makes sense to delay that decision until 18 or 25 for security and educational reasons. They are a family first and foremost and they need to make sure everyone understands what it means as far as the royal aspect. So I don’t why you’re trying to make a fuss over any delay when they are children of direct heirs. It still makes sense.

      • Evergreen says:

        I agree, Margethe is only making the situation worse. Mary commenting on it makes things look worse, too. If she knows what’s in store for her kids, why doesn’t she say that they are planning to see Isabella and the twins titles taken within the next year? Why just Joachim’s kids now?

  25. Sunday says:

    I just think that all this hanging on titles is actually idiotic. Between stolen jewels, servants and staff, castles and palaces, the absolute *least* offensive thing about the royals is that they call their children prince and princess.

    The entire purpose of the line of succession is to plan for the eventuality that the direct heir isn’t crowned (for whatever reason). So why go through all this axing of titles and whittling down when tomorrow there could be a horrible accident (heaven forbid) and surprise, all those people who’ve been stripped of titles are suddenly heir apparent.

    This is all just an over complication of the issue because the royals don’t want to address the real problem, which is hoarded generational wealth and continued funding. IMO this all becomes way more clear if you think of the “titles” issue just literally as their last names. Changing your last name doesn’t actually accomplish anything except making you feel ostracized from your family.

    To me, it makes much more sense to keep the titles and just tie all the tangible benefits and duties to the monarch and next direct heir. Cut taxpayer funding for everyone except the actual monarch, heir, and their spouses. The children are funded until they’re 18, and then only the direct heir is while the ‘spares’ forge their careers and do not officially represent the crown. Everyone else, princes and princesses included, get real jobs and don’t officially represent the monarchy, but are still obviously related and therefore retain their names aka the titles. If an heir wants out, their funding is transferred to the next in line. Give the palaces and castles back to the people, except the one the monarch lives in and the one the crown prince/princess live in.

    IDK, I just think all this “you don’t get to be a princess anymore!” stuff is so juvenile and just masks the actual issue in the pettiest possible way.

  26. Jais says:

    This thread has been fascinating, esp. having Mary called the original Kate Middleton lol. I don’t know enough to comment except to say that Mary comes across as soooo much more competent and professional than Kate. And yes, better dressed imo.

  27. tamsin says:

    If seems to me that the estate Joachim inherited was not a gift from the Queen, and he was gifted with the estate at a young age. I got the impression that Joachim had no talent for running the estate. In hindsight, it seems like a wise move because at least he gives himself and his children some financial security. I have the impression that the Danish royal family is one of the poor cousins of European royalty. I remember reading about Alexanda’s apanage which she got after her divorce and retained until her children were 18. Seems she continued to do some royal work which gradually dwindled as the children grew older. But the timing of all this is what is intriguing. QM goes to QE’s funeral, is seen chatting with Charles, comes home with covid, and strips royal titles from half her grandkids. It’s so tempting to put two and two together, regardless of what the sum total is. I’ve always had the impression that QM was a kind and thoughtful person- at least in her treatment of her ex-DIL Alexandra. She seems to have considered QE her role model, and handled the divorce much more humanely that the Windsors did with Diana. It wouldn’t be unreasonable to think that there was some jealousy on Mary’s part at the beginning as Alexandra was popular and effective in her royal work.

  28. Bisynaptic says:

    They’re all Keystone royals. Can’t wait to see them bring down monarchy.

  29. Beech says:

    I need a white board to cross reference everyone. I even wondered who was the royal aka the former soft porn actress and where does she fit in here? Because all Scandinavians are not from the same country. 🤔😀

    • Feeshalori says:

      That’s Princess Sofia of Sweden who’s married to Carl Philip.

    • Jess says:

      That’s Princess Sofia of Sweden. She has mostly been accepted because at the end of the day she’s white (and Swedish).

      I actually like Daisy’s rule of marrying foreigners to keep some of the mystique.

      • notasugarhere says:

        Belgium is excited they finally have a Belgian-born consort, even if she’s half Polish. Sweden and Norway have future heirs that are from two local, raised-in-their-country parents (with ancestors from all over via CP Victoria). Makes for a change from all the years of Queen Victoria descendants and royal-to-royal cross-border marriages.

        There’s no mystique around Mary. She was living with a pile of roommates, in debt to her ears, and answering phones in a real estate office. Her escapades at Starmakers were found out, her pile of overdue bills and past due credit card statements were found in the trash by a tabloid reporter. In today’s interconnected world, there isn’t ‘mystique’ about anyone’s past. Margrethe didn’t understand that and Mary’s assumed (wrongly) no one would call her on it.

      • Jess says:

        You really are doing the most.

        No matter how many comments you write Mary remains popular in Denmark.

        You also sound incredibly elitist. A lot of young people have credit card debt, live with roommates, and work in front offices. So what.

      • Jess says:

        Her last approval rating was in the 80s. I don’t know what it is now but she’s doing fine no matter how much you dislike her.

        And God forbid a young person have roommates and credit card debt in Australia. The horror.

      • notasugarhere says:

        God forbid a 28 year old have a national career and own her own home in Madrid. Oh, oops, that was Letizia. Or an international banking career and speak five languages, oops that was Maxima. Or own her speech therapy practice at 23, oops, that was Mathilde. A 28 year old was living with roomies, mired in debt because she had expensive tastes she couldn’t afford. Kept spending extravagantly anyway because she couldn’t control her greed. Never paid those debts, threw out the bills when she moved to Europe because she thought nobody was paying attention. Oops, that was Mary.

        My overall take is, Mary is one of the least impressive married-ins to arrive in the last 20 years. Much like Kate Middleton, she benefits from obsessive fans who find her bland ordinariness something to elevate.

        No matter how much you write, much of that ‘popularity’ merely stems from her position and not her as a person. Going back and reading old articles and books about Mary’s ‘elevation’ are an interesting study in group think and psychology. Nothing to do with her, everything to do with the position. And like Kate’s fans, Mary’s fans hate it when anyone points out her blandness.

    • Chic says:

      Wrong country.. That’s Sweden but I do think Fred models himself after the Swedish king with the affairs and alcohol

  30. Beech says:

    Who is Daisy, Margarethe?

    • Feeshalori says:

      Yes, that’s her nickname.

    • Christine says:

      THANK YOU!

      Is it an actual nickname, like Lilibet, or a gossip driven nickname, like Kitty?

      • Feeshalori says:

        It’s an actual royal nickname. The queen is named after her grandmother, the British Princess Margaret of Connaught who became known as Margareta upon her marriage as crown princess of Denmark which is a name similar to a Nordic flower that resembled a daisy. Margareta died at only 38 so when the queen was named after her, she also assumed her nickname which has been used since she was a child. She also wears an heirloom diamond daisy brooch frequently too. So it’s a similar situation to Elizabeth’s known nickname of Lilibet as a child.

      • Christine says:

        That is really sweet!

        Thank you!

      • Feeshalori says:

        You’re welcome, it’s a charming story.

  31. Well Wisher says:

    There is more to it that meets the eye.

  32. Alexa says:

    Where does that come from? Most of the titled Princesses and Princes already work and have for at least two generations. Just because you have a title doesn’t mean you don’t work. If they didn’t their husband did or they married a wife with a fortune. Princesses and Princes already work. Titles never hindered the art dealers, bankers, business owners, or vineyard owners. Why not just say from here on out? That’s the problem with the English and Danish. It’s not retroactive. Is it? It doesn’t sound like. If Charles the new king strips Prince Harry and Meghan then it should be from here on out. NO Differences. Which they never said.

    • Sid says:

      Alexa, ITA. And over in the UK the Duke of Gloucester was working as an actual architect back in the day when he was simply HRH Prince Richard. He only quit because his older brother died and he had to take over the dukedom. These folks have more access and connections than almost anyone to get themselves set up in white collar professions if they want to.

  33. jferber says:

    Marie, Joachim’s ex-wife, looks remarkably like Kate!

  34. jferber says:

    Sorry, Marie is Joachim’s current wife. Alexandra was his first wife.

  35. blunt talker says:

    They should stop future throne sitters from having more than one child-make other arrangements if that child does not survive to sit on the throne-spares in royal families have a difficult row to hoe-Diana knew this and tried to help Harry all she could