When the Sussexit happened in 2020, suddenly there was a very melodramatic conversation happening about Prince Harry’s role as “counsellor of state.” Both Prince Harry and Prince Andrew were Counsellors of State for Queen Elizabeth II, meaning that in a time of crisis or a time when the monarch is out of the country, the counsellors could step in and make decisions on behalf of the monarch. Except Andrew is a nonce and Harry lives in America, which is why there was so much melodrama about whether Harry and Andrew should be “thrown out” as counsellors. At the end of the day, QEII didn’t do anything about the situation because – I believe – she knew that Charles would have to deal with the issue when he became king. And here we are – King Charles was handed the issue, and now the House of Lords is trying to solve it.
Amid all this week’s frantic number-crunching and furtive haggling for the Conservative leadership, few were paying much attention to the House of Lords order paper on a quiet Monday afternoon. Yet in one brief exchange between the Leader of the Lords and a Labour backbencher we caught a glimpse of what may be the first constitutional reform of the reign of King Charles III.
Ministers and senior Palace officials are now finalising plans to avoid any future prospect of the Dukes of Sussex or York being involved in affairs of state in the absence of the King. Under proposals expected to come before Parliament, possibly within weeks, the King will be able to draw on a wider pool of royal substitutes — not least the Princess Royal and the Earl of Wessex — to conduct routine constitutional duties when he is out of the country.
The Mail has learned that these proposals were already being considered some months ago, with the approval of the late Queen. Monday’s parliamentary reply from the Leader of the Lords, Lord True, suggests that reform may be imminent.
At present, when the monarch is absent for whatever reason, state business — such as approvals for most appointments and legislation — can be conducted by two Counsellors of State. Under the terms of the Regency Acts of 1937 and 1953, these can be appointed from the four most senior adults in the line of succession, plus the consort of a monarch. Today, that means the Queen Consort, the Prince of Wales, the Duke of Sussex, the Duke of York and Princess Beatrice. Under the proposals in hand, the King would be able to extend that list at his discretion, with the option to include his two other siblings, Anne and Edward.
Reform is not without some sense of urgency, given that the King and the Queen Consort are likely to be heading overseas soon, the first time that the monarch has been out of the country in seven years. Palace officials are conscious that, at a time of great national, international and economic turbulence, it would be highly embarrassing if the smooth and immediate running of government were suddenly dependent on either of the two errant dukes.
In theory, state business could still be conducted by the Prince of Wales and Princess Beatrice, though she is a private citizen who might not be available at the click of a constitutional finger. She also does not carry the imprimatur of a working member of the Royal Family.
Rather than amend legislation to exclude any specific individuals, so the thinking goes, it makes much more sense simply to expand the options available to the King.
[From The Daily Mail]
“The two errant dukes” – one duke was credibly accused of rape and human trafficking. The other duke married a Black woman and left Salt Island to protect his family. Both “errant,” I guess. Equally “errant.” Yeah, they’ve been trying to do this for years, somehow equate Harry and Andrew. It’s always been gross, but it is what it is. It’s how these dumbasses think. As for the issue of counsellors of state… sure, whatever. They’ve needed to make some changes for years, as I said. Of course Charles would prefer Anne and Edward in those positions.
Photos courtesy of Avalon Red, Cover Images.
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LONDON, ENGLAND – SEPTEMBER 14: Prince William, Prince of Wales, Sir Timothy Laurence, Prince Harry, Duke of Sussex, King Charles III, Mr Peter Phillips, Anne, Princess Royal walk behind the coffin during the procession for the Lying-in State of Queen Elizabeth II on September 14, 2022 in London, England. Queen Elizabeth II’s coffin is taken in procession on a Gun Carriage of The King’s Troop Royal Horse Artillery from Buckingham Palace to Westminster Hall where she will lay in state until the early morning of her funeral. Queen Elizabeth II died at Balmoral Castle in Scotland on September 8, 2022, and is succeeded by her eldest son, King Charles III.,Image: 722674714, License: Rights-managed, Restrictions: , Model Release: no, Credit line: Jeff J Mitchell / Avalon
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LONDON, ENGLAND – SEPTEMBER 14: King Charles III, Anne, Princess Royal, Camilla, Queen Consort, Vice Admiral Sir Timothy Laurence, Prince William, Prince of Wales, Prince Harry, Duke of Sussex, Sophie, Countess of Wessex, Catherine, Princess of Wales, Meghan, Duchess of Sussex, Prince Edward, Duke of Kent and Prince Michael of Kent pay their respects inside the Palace of Westminster for the Lying-in State of Queen Elizabeth II on September 14, 2022 in London, England. Queen Elizabeth II’s coffin is taken in procession on a Gun Carriage of The King’s Troop Royal Horse Artillery from Buckingham Palace to Westminster Hall where she will lay in state until the early morning of her funeral. Queen Elizabeth II died at Balmoral Castle in Scotland on September 8, 2022, and is succeeded by her eldest son, King Charles III.,Image: 722674734, License: Rights-managed, Restrictions: , Model Release: no, Credit line: David Ramos / Avalon
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LONDON, ENGLAND – SEPTEMBER 14: King Charles III and Princess Anne, Princess Royal pay their respects in The Palace of Westminster during the procession for the Lying-in State of Queen Elizabeth II on September 14, 2022 in London, England. Queen Elizabeth II’s coffin is taken in procession on a Gun Carriage of The King’s Troop Royal Horse Artillery from Buckingham Palace to Westminster Hall where she will lay in state until the early morning of her funeral. Queen Elizabeth II died at Balmoral Castle in Scotland on September 8, 2022, and is succeeded by her eldest son, King Charles III.,Image: 722680064, License: Rights-managed, Restrictions: , Model Release: no, Credit line: David Ramos / Avalon
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Britain’s King Charles, Britain’s Anne, Princess Royal, Prince Andrew and Prince Edward attend a vigil, following the death of Britain’s Queen Elizabeth, inside Westminster Hall in London, Britain, September 16, 2022.,Image: 723504646, License: Rights-managed, Restrictions: , Model Release: no, Credit line: HANNAH MCKAY / Avalon
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The Queen’s grandchildren, Prince William, Prince of Wales, Prince Harry, Duke of Sussex, Zara Tindall, Peter Philips, Princess Beatrice, Princess Eugenie, Lady Louise Windsor and James, Viscount Severn, arrive to hold a vigil beside the coffin of Queen Elizabeth II as it lies in state on the catafalque in Westminster Hall, at the Palace of Westminster, London.,Image: 723638812, License: Rights-managed, Restrictions: , Model Release: no, Credit line: Ian Vogler / Avalon
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LONDON, ENGLAND – SEPTEMBER 17: Prince Harry, Duke of Sussex holds a vigil in honour of Queen Elizabeth II at Westminster Hall on September 17, 2022 in London, England. Queen Elizabeth II’s grandchildren mount a family vigil over her coffin lying in state in Westminster Hall. Queen Elizabeth II died at Balmoral Castle in Scotland on September 8, 2022, and is succeeded by her eldest son, King Charles III.,Image: 723679222, License: Rights-managed, Restrictions: , Model Release: no, Credit line: Chris Jackson / Avalon
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(left to right) Zara Tindall, Lady Louise, Princess Beatrice, and the Duke of Sussex, before holding a vigil beside the coffin of their grandmother, Queen Elizabeth II, as it lies in state on the catafalque in Westminster Hall, at the Palace of Westminster, London.,Image: 724023583, License: Rights-managed, Restrictions: , Model Release: no, Credit line: Aaron Chown / Avalon
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King Charles III, the Queen Consort in front of the Duke and Duchess of Sussex during the State Funeral of Queen Elizabeth II, held at Westminster Abbey, London.,Image: 724154193, License: Rights-managed, Restrictions: -, Model Release: no, Credit line: Gareth Fuller / Avalon
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LONDON, ENGLAND – SEPTEMBER 19: Prince Harry, Duke of Sussex follows behind The Queen’s funeral cortege borne on the State Gun Carriage of the Royal Navy as it leaves Westminster Abbey on September 19, 2022 in London, England. Elizabeth Alexandra Mary Windsor was born in Bruton Street, Mayfair, London on 21 April 1926. She married Prince Philip in 1947 and ascended the throne of the United Kingdom and Commonwealth on 6 February 1952 after the death of her Father, King George VI. Queen Elizabeth II died at Balmoral Castle in Scotland on September 8, 2022, and is succeeded by her eldest son, King Charles III.,Image: 724154654, License: Rights-managed, Restrictions: -, Model Release: no, Credit line: Jeff Spicer / Avalon
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(left to right) The Duke of Sussex, King Charles III and the Princess Royal follow the State Hearse carrying the coffin of Queen Elizabeth II, draped in the Royal Standard with the Imperial State Crown and the Sovereign’s Orb and Sceptre, as it arrives at the Committal Service held at St George’s Chapel in Windsor Castle, Berkshire.,Image: 724270306, License: Rights-managed, Restrictions: -, Model Release: no, Credit line: Kirsty O’Connor / Avalon
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(front row, left to right) The Duchess of Sussex, the Duke of Sussex, Princess Charlotte, and the Princess of Wales during the Committal Service for Queen Elizabeth, at St George’s Chapel in Windsor Castle, Berkshire.,Image: 724425806, License: Rights-managed, Restrictions: -, Model Release: no, Credit line: Victoria Jones / Avalon
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State Funeral of Queen Elizabeth II held at Westminster Abbey in London.
Featuring: King Charles III, Princess Anne, Princess Royal, Prince Harry, Duke of Sussex, Peter Phillips
Where: London, England, United Kingdom
When: 19 Sep 2022
Credit: PA Images/INSTARimages.com/Cover Images
**North America Rights Only**
I agree it doesn’t make sense for either of them to hold the position BUT it is also appealing how happy the BRF and the BM are to throw Harry and Andrew into the same bag. They are not the same, at all!
Agree, they can run their country however they want. I do think it’s interesting that Charles is pulling Anne and Edward closer to him, while pointedly sticking a pin in Andrew’s trial balloon PR of “offering to give his stately advice privately as a valued advice giver” BS. Good for him. It was made perfectly clear around Philip’s funeral and also when Andrew was forced to step down that there are issues within the family where Charles only wants to deal with his siblings – and pointedly NOT William or anyone else in the younger generation.
I doubt Harry cares…
Precisely! Harry doesn’t care. He’s too busy traveling the world and doing good deeds, when he’s not being peaceful under a tree with his wife and kiddies.
My question is: Why does Chucky Boy need a raft of Councillors, anyways? Even when he’s out of the country, he’s just a Zoom meeting or phone call away. And what’s a constitutional monarch do that’s so important than s/he needs someone to mind the store whenever s/he’s not around? Emergency knighting? Last-minute corgi cuddling? Some dispute over who’ll cut the ribbon at a bus stop opening?
This will cause the Commonwealth countries to have more ammunition to move along out from under the UK Monarchy even quicker…
The BRF seem to never learn.
@Cate, I think you meant to type appalling and not appealing. When Harry Chose to step down as a working royal-he was fully aware that he would be removed as a counsellor of state. It was never a matter of IF, it was a matter of WHEN. Harry is completely comfortable with the decision.
The unmitigated glee is what gets me.
Glee in the perceived misfortunes of others, mockery and pronouncing what people should and shouldn’t do.
That’s how the British tabloid media rolls. 🤪
Sure. Stick with the “working” royals who are already on your payroll and let them actually do a little to earn the high lifestyle the country is keeping them in. I doubt PH cares and is busy with his real world work. Andrew will likely be disappointed and maybe Bea.
I can see Andrew throwing a hissy and stomping his little feet, but I don’t know if Harry would actually be bothered? I mean if it all hit the fan (as it continues to do) he could be all “I noped outta there for a reason y’all”
and go back to playing with the kids
It doesn’t sound like H&A are being removed from the list but rather that Anne and Ed are being added to it thus expanding the available number of CoS.
That’s how I read it too. Which, honestly makes sense. Some consorts are more than qualified to be Counselors but I don’t see Camilla as being some sort of interested policy genius. (I could be mistaken.) William, yes, he’s the next King so he ought to be a Counselor, like it or not. Harry’s got a good head on his shoulders but he’s unlikely to be in town when needed, also might not be paying a ton of attention to mundane British affairs at the moment. (Again, I could be mistaken!) Obvi nobody wants Andrew’s opinion on anything, ever. And Beatrice … maybe she’s competent but I see her like Harry: not necessarily around and not necessarily paying attention to mundane matters of state. So why not widen the circle to include a few more folks who are more likely to be around and paying attention? Keep Harry and Bea on the list and use them if you can, just don’t necessarily depend on them. I’d personally dump Andrew but this way they can nominally keep him and just ignore him which maybe they see as the path of least resistance.
Beatrice reportedly did very well in school after her dyslexia was diagnosed and has a history degree. My bet would be she would be more competent than the “working” royals.
Anybody get the idea that Charles is chronically ill (those fingers) and his future absences may be more likely than not?
From as far back as Feb 2021 when H was a guest on the James Corden “Late Late Show,” he said, ‘whatever they want to do over there, thats on them’ (i:e re any action they might want to take in response to his taking his family and relocating to America.)
And in the famous Oprah intvw with H&M back in March 2020, M said: “if that comes with the risk of losing things……a lot has been lost already.”
Harry did not stutter. Meghan did not stutter.
Those constipated racist troglodytes on that godforsaken island are such a bunch of inept clusterfuckups.
@Kingston. Your last sentence is pure gold. Thank you. Pure, unadulterated gold.
The obnoxiousness of the false equivalence of Andrew and Harry aside, this whole exercise underscores the irrelevance of the British royals. Who cares which pretender gets to pretend to be of any importance to affairs of state?
The UK government is doing a fine job of putting at least vaguely elected pretenders into power all by itself! (/sarcasm)
Just do it but have some self-respect and call off the attack dogs. If you can’t even do, that you’re really a rubbish institution built on immature, self-inflicted grudges.
As for Nonce, whatever.
Expanding rather than removing is probably the best option both PR wise and monarchy wise. PR wise they can say they’re not actively removing Harry and Andrew (although the latter being removed would be accepted/understood IMO) even if that’s the whole point of the expansion. Monarchy wise means they don’t have to come up with a blanket reason on paper to remove both of them. One reason they can use is “not a working royal” but that’s not really defined and I don’t think anyone in the monarchy wants to have it defined.
I guess this is important to the UK folks because I am pretty sure the Sussexes are not concerned. Trying to center themselves in the Sussexes lives is the problem for them. I do not know what the Sussexes have to say to get those gutter folks to realize they are gone and not coming back. The Sussexes brand is global, all the nonsense from that tiny island resonates with the tiny island only. Seems to me there is a state of constant confusion with that monarchy. The Sussexes appear to have a clear plan and direction for their lives. Maybe, just maybe they should follow the Sussexes blueprint to avoid all of the chaos and confusion.
Interesting that they aren’t removing them but instead expanding. Much different tone to the wailing and screaming pre and post funeral about kicking Harry out.
There was also another article claiming that they weren’t reducing the number of “working” royals after all.
Hmmm maybe someone’s realizing they don’t have many options do they…
I doubt this is breaking news to Harry. He has already stated that he and granny talked frequently, and during the Invictus visit, this may have been mentioned as something she needed to decide on. Old news, I’ll bet.
Lol, yes indeed. Because the government has been running so smoothly with Charles actually in the country
Given how useless this entire structure of “counsellors of State” was these last few years when QEII was clearly declining, and in the last year especially when it was even more clear that she was unable to function as Head of State, this is all angels dancing on the head of a pin, as we say in English.
I sincerely doubt that Charles would allow ANYONE to take over if he was incapacitated in any way. After all these years he has waited for his turn in the spotlight, no Counsellor of State will take over unless it’s by dragging KCIII out of BP while clawing the drapes and screaming!
Both Charles and William were used by the late Queen on several occasions during her last year as her counsellors of state, i really don’t understand your useless comment?
I say good riddance. Cut all ties to the firm. Who needs this archaic system based on a inbred blue blooded family? Who still wants to bow their heads to someone with literally no merit other than their inbred families decided to marry and procreate? And a family that’s taken advantage of just about every country in every continent. this is the best for Harry and Meghan to just cut all ties. Do what they want to. None of this half in and half out. Just get OUT.
“The two errant dukes…”🤬🤯
They’re equally noxious according to the tabloids. This is disgusting.
Anne is 72 (and a beeyach). I wouldn’t count on her too much….Ed’s 58, a better bet.
I hope that H&M can’t make it to the coronation if the get invited (and stay invited). The BRF is dying to treat them like crap. Why go to the trouble when you know that’s waiting for you?
I doubt Harry cares about this.
I agree with that 100%.. also how often has this ever come into play? No one beyond that isle cares either to be honest. It will just look like another way to punish Prince Harry imo. (If this wasn’t an issue when Prince Harry was deployed in a war zone I don’t understand why it’s an issue when he is a civilian living in California)
He would probably just be relieved that this is one less stick they have to beat him with, one less “threat” they have to hold over his head.
I think the real problem is who KC3 allows to be working royals. I look at this and think if Bea is a CoS she should be a working royal if she wishes. It’s always been reported she does want to be a working royal. Why is Sophie allowed when she’s not even in the line of succession (and her husband is way down the line), but Bea (and Eug) is not? Also, Harry would be a part time working royal if allowed. I think the real problem is who KC3 allows to be working royals. The king should be represented by those up the ladder in succession not just his siblings and in-laws.
This is a matter that should have been discussed in private, once more done in public.
The King wants the newly minted Wales to step up to do more engagements, not fun stuff or phone calls.
He has announced via tabloid media that the Wales will not not get a castle, just yet.
He does not want a co-reign, where he does all the work while they get some of the credit.
In other words, he does not want to fill the role Harry played, he wants to control him.
Since this was in the fail some days ago, I expected that another shoe will drop.
The only disappointing factor is the cowardice of hiding behind the late Queen continued.
The conflation of Andrew and Harry is caused they are seen as a problem and no one in that class system believed the accusations against Andrew.
For them Harry is uncontrollable, he is being obstinate by refusing to be a mule to the Wales and the king, he would not even consider the scapegoat status.
Therefore he must be punished, stripped of Counsel of state by someone else the House of Lords.
What left remaining is titles, at least for the children, then removal from Frogmore Cottage.
What would this accomplish for their moral standing ?
Carry on leaking and seeking ‘revenge’ until it becomes more apparent, while the disinterest grows.
I think about Harry being removed as a Councilor of State as yet another way they cut off their noses to spite their faces. Harry could, in fact, provide a valuable INTERNATIONAL perspective in the decision-making process for whatever. But would they heed him? I think not. Ultimately it would it simply add a further burden of frustration/pain/anger/hurt to Harry’s heart, so for his own mental health, he’s likely best out of there. What I find amusing is how much Andrew wants back in, whilst Harry….doesn’t. Yet its Harry who could offer valuable insights into how to bring the monarchy forward so the island might contribute to the greater good of the world. They are so short-sighted, they just cannot see past those noses and insist on spitting on their own faces.
Definition of Errant…. Behaving wrongly/leaving home. The definition can be applied to both Andrew the first part and Harry the second. neither should be councillors of state as
1/ Andrew is a complete bellend, arrogant and completely detached from reality (I know him from working with him in the navy, he was a nightmare)
2/Obviously due to his Shameful behaviour he has lost the smidgeon of credibility he had.
For Harry as he is living overseas he has a life and commitments that would make it very difficult to drop everything to travel back to the UK at the drop of a hat.
It makes sense to drop them from the list and expand down to Princess Anne and Prince Edward as these 2 along with Edwards wife Sophie are already doing an awful lot of work without any fuss
Hallooo?… is the Mail letting it slip that the Monarch has power to approve appointments and legislation (ie, the King’s consent)? Huge, if true.
I caught that too! Saying the quiet part out loud! So much for the big lie that the monarch doesn’t have any power/get involved in politics. I always suspected that the royals have more power than is widely known.
They all recognize the conundrum and that they’ve backed themselves into a corner. Also treating your COS like sh*t is a bad look, no matter who it is. But they can’t/won’t ignore Harry and removing them is a slippery slope.
I think the pillaging of English coffers is acceptable to the people as long as hate, ill will, pettiness and vindictiveness are there as punishment for Harry and Meghan. It’s madness, honestly.
Thanks for reposting this priceless header pic of Good King Harry surrounded by his toy soldiers. Made my day!
LOL. Exactly what decisions need to be made? It’s like saying “a 5 yrs old is working on the energy crisis.” What do these people do? It’s laughable. And the answer is simple: Andrew’s out because he’s a nonce; Harry’s out because he no longer lives in the UK and is not familiar with the day-to-day inside crap and the bullshit of his blood relatives. Resolved.
I don’t understand why this is such a huge deal. They were counselors to the Queen and didn’t take over any duties. It makes sense to add more people. Harry lives on another continent. He can’t do anything if there was a need. I can see Andrew making a fuss since he wants to anything to be close to a working Royal.
Harry moved out of the country full time. I don’t see how it’s possible for him to have this position. In other countries if children in the line of succession don’t attend mandatory school years (like 6-16) in the country they lose their rights. I think that’s fair.
Harry has a home in the UK. You don’t know the Sussex future plans.
Give a scenario where you see them coming back? I don’t see how full time. Sure they will travel for events and maybe spend time their some summers but overall it’s looking like the Sussex kids will have American accents.
The only European monarchies with the “raised in the country” rule I could fine were Denmark and Sweden. Oddly though, some of the royals from Denmark were sent to France for educations. Some heirs seem to attend university in other countries.
Jess, until Harry can get the proper security for him and his family, we don’t know how much they would be in the UK. I think H&M were intending to spend time in the UK. Archie & Lili are half British and I think H&M want them to know that side of their heritage, too. When they have the proper security, I would anticipate that they would spend more time there. That’s all guesswork on my part. Who knows, perhaps H&M no longer want to spend time there. We’ll have to wait and see.
Harry will ALWAYS be a persona non grata to the Salt Island derangers, the RR, and Royal Family because he married a Black woman and did the unspeakable: made two babies with her – successors to the Crown. *clutching pearls and puking*
Harry’s “sin” is viewed as far worse than Andrew’s. All Andrew did was repeatedly rape a trafficked minor. But Harry has tainted the archaic institution with Black blood. Simply unforgivable!
@Beverley, that is really the heart of every single issue the BRF and the BM have with Harry. They all genuinely believe that what he did is worse than what Andrew did.
Andrew may be a rapist, but he’s white and no voluntary job quitter! (Because he got fired.)
Beverley, Yes, yes and yes. Say it a thousand times. Because it’s the truth.
👍🏾
This comes from the people who removed a patch on his uniform so he wouldn’t feel like he’s included in the pack when he was mourning his grandmother the Queen during his vigil for her. Im sure they had no intention to keep him on any of their teams. I’m sure Harry can’t wait to cut even more ties with KC3. This is good news to him. The first months of his reign has been nothing but trouble in the air, black clouds and rain, tantrums and bad ink pens and awful pictures of his horse – scratch that – his queen.
Priceless how they think Harry even GAF about it at this point.