Rihanna: there was “no soul in his eyes” when Chris Brown beat me

Yesterday, we got some interesting/tragic clips from Diane Sawyer’s interview with Rihanna. This is Rihanna’s first big interview since the February beating, and Rihanna doesn’t seem to be holding anything back. In yesterday’s portions, Rihanna described her confusion with the aftermath of the beating, and how she now knows it was “wrong” to get back with Chris. Rihanna described how she knew she was sending the wrong message: “When I realized that my selfish decision for love could result in some young girl getting killed, I could not be easy with that part. I couldn’t be responsible for that. Even if Chris never hit me again, who’s to say their boyfriend won’t? Who’s to say they won’t kill these girls? I didn’t realize how much of an impact I had on these girls’ lives until that happened.”

Today’s revelations are in the same vein, although Rihanna reveals some new details that gave me chills. She recounts her memories of Chris beating her, and she describes how Chris looked to her: “He had no soul in his eyes. Just blank. He was clearly blacked-out. There was no person when I looked at him.” Jesus. Chris just transformed, in my mind, from “abusive prick” to “sociopath”.

In a 20/20 interview airing Friday, Rihanna offers her graphic account of the fateful Feb. 7 confrontation with then-boyfriend Chris Brown – including the terrifying blankness that seemed to come over him as he assaulted her.

She says all she kept thinking was, “When is it going to stop? When is it going to stop? He had no soul in his eyes. Just blank. He was clearly blacked-out. There was no person when I looked at him.”

The fight, she says, started when Brown received a text message from another woman while they were driving away from a Grammy Awards party.

“I caught him in a lie, and he wouldn’t tell the truth. And I wouldn’t drop it,” Rihanna tells Diane Sawyer in the interview, portions of which aired Friday morning on Good Morning America.

“I couldn’t take that he kept lying to me, and he couldn’t take that I wouldn’t drop it … It escalated into him being violent towards me. And it was ugly.”

How ugly? “I was battered, I was bleeding, I was swollen in my face,” she says.

She felt trapped. “My next option was to get out of the car and walk, start walking in a gown and a bloody face,” she says. “I didn’t have a plan. That whole night was not part of my plan.”

Rihanna believes now that the passionate love affair between the young couple – she was 20 at the time, he was 19 – was an unhealthy one. “The more in love we became, the more dangerous we became for each other, equally dangerous,” she says. “Because it was a bit of an obsession.”

She also discusses how she eventually broke things off with Brown, and how she feels about him today.

“Love doesn’t go away right away,” she says. “He didn’t accept that very well. Obviously he didn’t want us to be apart. But I had to make a decision for me.”

Does she hate Brown now? “No, I don’t hate him at all,” she says. “I actually love and care about him. I want him to do well, have a great career, have a great life and grow up. And just take this as something you had to go through to grow up and learn.”

[From People]

Later in the interview, Diane Sawyer asks Rihanna if she hates Chris. Rihanna replies: “No, I don’t hate him at all. I actually love and care about him. I’m concerned about him doing well. I want him to do well, have a great career, have a great life, grow up and just take this as something that you had to go through to grow up and learn.” Ugh. If I learned anything from watching Law & Order, it’s that you can’t reform a sociopath. A sociopath doesn’t “grow up”. They only get worse and more violent. I hope Rihanna is really and truly done with Chris.


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93 Responses to “Rihanna: there was “no soul in his eyes” when Chris Brown beat me”

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  1. Malorie says:

    I know what she means, my father´s eyes turned like shark´s eyes when he hit me.

    And you´re right, people like that don´t change.

  2. niamh (neev) says:

    good for her. someone is finally talking about domestic violence.

  3. Megan says:

    do you hear that? It’s chris browns’ career crashing and burning… that’s some karma for his ass!!! Also RiRi is one classy lady!

  4. Millie Rios says:

    It takes two to tango.. I don’t buy this I am a victim crap.I think they both have a lot of growing up to do. When you are young you don’t know how to handle your frustrations you react like a child and that is usually in the wrong way.

  5. Jazz says:

    A friend of mine has been in an abusive relationship and that’s how she would always describe it to me. They never change and I hope Rihanna is well and truly done with him too.

  6. niamh (neev) says:

    Millie they weren’t tango-ing. He was assaulting her. That doesn’t take two.

  7. teehee says:

    I have to doubt that sociopaths -or however you want to generally refer to someone like this, without having to nit pick about the details of how you classify one as such- cannot be reformed.
    I can speak from experience, first hand. My father was this way. I learned form him. I replicated his entire mindset.
    I have come this far…. admitttedly not very far in terms of being out of the loop and still very central/limited in my perspective and understanding etc.
    But I am so, SO SOOOO far from where I came, and definitely incapable of ever hitting another person.
    I know the ‘mood’ you go into when it happens; yes it is an entirely other frame of mind that enables you to do a thing like that, which, ifyou were still using your conscience, you wouldnt be able to do….

    but yes it IS the most common case that these people dont change, only get worse. For example, my dad now lives isolated in the middle of the woods and the last I heard about him was that he hadnt bathed in 6 years. My aunt revealed this to me.

    I would beyond every single doubt be on the same path but I am choosing not to take it. Its another matter of simply WANTING to change. So a better way to say it is that most of these people just do not WANT to change. But they can.
    (and I know why not: it is the. hardest. thing. ever. and it takes years! none of that ‘anger management class and its better’ nonsense)


  8. maddie says:

    @Millie Rios : “I don’t buy this I am a victim crap”

    I guess getting your face bashed in by your boyfriend is playing the victim card.

    Asking your bf a question and his answer is to punch you senseless is also playing the victim card.

    It’s attitudes like yours that keeps women in these violet relationships, due to the shame and the blame shifting.

    It’s there fault that they get beat for not cooking dinner at 5:01pm, not cleaning the house the right way……

  9. blinkblue says:

    I’m so impressed with this young woman’s insight. either she’s surrounded by wise people who have helped her through this horrible experience or she herself is much wiser than her years.
    what an incredible example she is for young girls. i hope she realizes how many lives she may be saving. she is a true hero in my eyes.

  10. Praise St. Angie! says:

    “I don’t buy this I am a victim crap.”


    yeah, she doesn’t look like a victim of a beating at ALL.

    if it does “take two to tango”, where are the pics of Chris Brown with similar injuries?

  11. tiffay says:

    Yeah I don’t buy the victim crap either. I don’t condone what he did to her but if she abused him too then she needs to admit that. She did say that they were dangerous to each other EQUALLY! But I’m sure most of you decided not to hear that part. People are so quick to judge but you don’t know what really happened in that car. Like Rihanna is going to admit that she hit him too…yeah right. Its not right for a man to hit a woman and its not right for a woman to hit a man.

  12. tiffay says:

    I don’t understand why people go so crazy over a situation that has NOTHING to do with them and judging Chris Brown when I’m pretty sure most of you guys aren’t perfect and have done some wrong in your life also.

  13. tommysgirl54 says:

    Tiffay: There is a difference between a mistake/doing something wrong and beating someone like he did. So yes, I can say I have never done anything like that. p.s. Chris Brown will never meet you/date you/have sex with you so stop sticking up for him just because he’s “cute.” Stop making excuses for him. What he did was wtong and disgusting and he deserves to not have a career anymore.

  14. ! says:

    Oh stfu tiffany you abuse apologist. If it was so “equal” then show me the part where Chris Brown walked away swollen bloodied bruised and beaten. Oh wait THOSE PICTURES DONT EXIST BECAUSE IT NEVER HAPPENED

    Starry eyed Chris lover. You’ll excuse anything he does, won’t you?

  15. ! says:

    Oh and tiffay, I may have done things wrong in my life


    Some people are sooooo dense.

  16. maddie says:

    @tiffay: I don’t understand why people go so crazy over a situation that has NOTHING to do with them and judging Chris Brown when I’m pretty sure most of you guys aren’t perfect and have done some wrong in your life also.

    Oh yes we go home and beat our dogs, kick the cat, and beat our kids and husbands and wives.

    As for this having nothing to do with us have we come this far in society that we pass the guy beating up his wife because we don’t want to get involved and are afraid to voice our opinions if it differs with the majority or trying to teach young girls who are in this stitch that there is a way out and no it’s not NORMAL for your high school sweet heart to bounce you around.

    I think there is a quite a difference to beating some one up and doing some thing wrong like driving the wrong way down a street.

    Not one of us claims to be perfect but we do know when some one has effed up and didn’t even own up to it. like Chris Brown has done.

  17. Praise St. Angie! says:

    “dangerous to each other” does not translate into “they beat each other”.

    I’ll ask you, too. if she beat him too, to the point that HE beat HER, where are the pictures of him with similar injuries?

    and no, I’m not perfect. but I have NEVER beaten someone like Brown did. Never beaten someone, PERIOD. and trying to deflect his actions with “nobody’s perfect” is a really sorry and lame excuse.

  18. nycmom10024 says:

    As a teen I remember my father telling me when selecting a jury for rape trials, the rapist attorney’s prefer to have more women on the jury. Why? Because like your poster above a woman is quicker to blame the woman. A man is more inclined to say,”I would never take it that far.”

    Overcoming the urge/desire to beat someone is very hard to overcome. You first have to admit what you have done. One you have thrown that first punch, push, shove whatever you have crossed a line that is very difficult to cross back over.

  19. RedEyeJedi says:

    Eh, I really don’t care for Rihanna and yeah it sucks getting your face bashed in, but Chris Brown’s career is like already over so I’m totally over this story. But what I’m really concerned about is Rihanna’s hair. It looks really, really horrible.

  20. truth says:

    cry me a river Riri and drown in it. don’t care that she is now coming out with this news about the assault. what was your part in the situation? did you hit chris? two young people with no supervision leads to this — violence. to all those on this blog that will try to talk about my comment — kiss my ass as well. i do not put myself in any situation where a man can verbally or physically assault me. you stay then you should look for things to get worse. it always starts small. for all those women that get beat up please get mental help. learn to love yourselves more so a man will not be able to hurt you.

  21. I c says:

    I get what both sides mean…. Were lucky she even talked, their business. We’ll never truly know everything.

  22. Firestarter says:

    Ahh it is so good to see the Chris Brown apologists out in full force!


  23. Mimi says:

    “Put yourself in that specific situation or at least try to understand the other person”. I always say this to my friends family and i try to do this when them come to talk about their problems.
    So i have to say that is very hard to say CB was right in any moment in the accident, is like say that i’m right to beat up my love one…mother…sister…daughter/son…sister…cousin… because they are saying things that i don’t want to hear even if they are right about it is just sick. No one should do this to anyone u people that defend him would U be OK if this happened with someone from ur family? or with yourself?.
    I keep think if this happening with someone from my family … i would probably Hate that person with all my heart then i would not want to get close to that person for fear of what I could do when saw him. And forgiveness is a good thing but in this situation i would need several years to accomplish or better leave in God’s hands.
    I just want to know if people that defend him would still say that is her fault if “her” was their mother, daughter, sister or cousin… Would be her fault discover that his was cheating on her… Would be her fault to want to him to explain himself… and would be her fault that his decide to beat her till almost she died leave her in the car and run to hide himself.
    And i don’t think that she hit him if so he would probably have say already for people feel sorry for him.
    We all probably would try forgive him if after the beat up he does not appear in jet ski having fun and going on parties like nothing have happened and if he was man enough to say what happening in that day contrary to what “transpired”. I would try at last see him as a person that can change if he stand up against his fans that go on blogs and sites and say nasty bitter stupid and false things about RiRi to protect him

  24. Eileen Yover says:

    Why waste your time even commenting on this thread if you are sooooooo over it? Why’d you even read it? Get over yourself already.
    Millions of women die every year from domestic violence. The relationship doesn’t start with him beating them on the first date. The man is always overwhelmingly perfect, always there and loving, and carefully secluding you from everyone else. Then out of nowhere “BAM” it happens and you are so completely shocked, you can’t beleive it even happened. By then, he’s already led you to believe noone loves you like he does so you trust him when he says he’ll never do it again. Unfortunetly 0% of that promise is held.
    Domestic violence is calculated and violent, so your niave, uneducated, and disgusting remarks only make us think one of two things: you yourself are abused, or you have no clue how the outside world works….let’s hope its the later.

  25. M says:

    I’m not defending Tiffay in any way, but I get where she is coming from. Remember the phrase “cycle of abuse”; the relationship is unhealthy for BOTH parties.

    One of my aunts and her ex-husband had an abusive relationship. Much like Rihanna did, my aunt would not let certain issues go. She needled my uncle, called him out of his name, would throw things at him, just basically taunt him. My cousins would cry for her to stop and for him not to start, but Wham! He’d hit her after he’d had enough — my cousins used to say he would go into “the white zone”. But my aunt would hit him back — and not necessarily in self-defense; she’d often fight him. So he’d just hit her harder and overpower her. It was sick. Did my uncles have bruises? Sometimes, but not often, but they weren’t like anything the way my aunt would look.

    Yet she stayed. And she still engaged in behavior that would trigger his rage. I witnessed this a few times; my cousins would often stay with us or other family members to get them out of the house. Even though at the time I was very young, my family would always say my uncle had a “temper” and that my aunt was “crazy” — and it made a lot of sense to me. She pushed him over the edge. THAT DID NOT EXCUSE HIS BEHAVIOR but I am less inclined to say that she was the “victim” — the both were abusers AND victims in my opinion.

    I’m not implying that all domestic violence situations were like my family’s either. They were both effed up imo, and they both needed to get help. My uncle did eventually walk away, and though my aunt hasn’t been in an abusive relationship like that since, her relationships haven’t been what I would describe as healthy.

    I will never blame the victim, but there are a lot of layers that keep both parties in that sort of relationship, and that’s why it often takes women (and men, too) five, six, seven attempts to leave before they are successful. I just hope that Rihanna has gotten the therapy that she needs. She and Chris were obviously co-dependent and that only excacerbated their issues.

  26. princess pea says:

    You know why I care about this a situation that has NOTHING to do with me?

    Because I am a woman, and I never want to be beaten like that. Because I have sisters, and nieces, and I never want them beaten like that. Because there are assholes in this world who still think that beating someone to a pulp is an acceptable response to words exchanged. Because I am a human being, and NEVER want another human being to be beaten like that again.

    I don’t even want you, disgusting Chris Brown apologists, to be beaten like that. I don’t even want Chris, asshole of the highest order, beaten like that. It never solves problems; it only makes things worse. The beating only takes a little time, the personal trauma will last the victim’s whole life.

  27. Iggles says:

    I have to agree with everyone who said sociopaths don’t change. They don’t feel emotions like remorse or guilt. If you don’t feel bad about hurting other people, what is the incentive to follow any of the rules? No, they get their kicks off manipulating and causing harm to others. They don’t “grow up”, they only learn how to cover their tracks better. Unlike psychopaths, sociopaths learn how to fly under the radar.

  28. teehee says:

    It is irrelevant who hits or doesn’t hit or who does anything first; abuse is wrong and messed up plain and simple. Everyone I think can basically agree to that.

    Victims almost always become abusers, ie abusers are victims too, and thus its no surprise when the roles are exchanged. But this does not always happen; yet people have gotten into the swing of suspecting it has happened. Its the new way of saying “X had it coming”, another way of saying whoever is abused by another in some way or form ‘deserved’ it or is to blame for it happening to them.

    It is true that your own mindframe puts you in those situations, but still, bottom line is even if you dont know better, you do not ‘deserve’ or ask to be abused, and moreso I feel that understanding that victims put themselves there does not make it ok to be unsympathetic to the people involved in it. That definitely doesnt help the situation; honestly I can see how it keeps the victim stuck feeling SHAME which is what makes them stay. There is the risk that they will be blamed or just made to feel bad or it having happened, so theyd prefer to pretned it wasnt happening and that they were in a healthy relationship that others and themselves could be proud of.
    Also the shame the abuser feels, and the fact that no one believes they can reform, keeps them angry at themselves and feeling hopeless and not believing they can be any better (thus they dont have to).
    Its always so much more complicated than can be decribed in a single post, but maybe keep in mind that it is the act, not the humans, that you find disgusting and wrong. Direct your condemnation appropriately. LOL We all have a strong disgust towards abusive behavior, but being callous towards people has never amounted to any good.
    Not saying anyone has to thnk or feel differently, but saying my own position. And no Im certinly not an abuser apologist or advocator of abuse, but rather someone with lots of personal experience who advocates more understanding just in general, about this epidemic.

  29. Baho says:

    “I don’t buy the victim crap…”

    Whenever there is a disparity in power, whether it be physical strength, economic or social standing, workplace bullying – whatever – and the person WITH the power uses it to the detriment and violation of the rights of the person WITHOUT it, that person on the receiving end is a victim.

    So yes, she IS a victim – regardless of the personal, moral (and frankly, odious) judgments of some posters here.

  30. tiffay says:

    wow you guys are going nuts over my opinion. In no way was I being a “abuse apologizer” or whatever you people are talking about. I’m not defending Chris Brown nor am I defending Rihanna. All I stated was that abuse is wrong, no matter who is abusing who. If you dont agree with that then I cannot help you. And the fact that you would even say that I’am taking up for Chris Brown (which I’m not) cause he is “cute” just shows how pathetic you are. This is the last time I’m commenting on this topic. So all of you have a nice day 🙂

  31. Praise St. Angie! says:

    “All I stated was that abuse is wrong, no matter who is abusing who.”

    actually, that’s NOT all you stated, which is why you got the reactions you did.

  32. Zarah says:

    She comes across as a really articulate, grounded young woman. Clearly she’s been through a traumatic experience, magnified by a thousand with the whole world watching she’s emerged a wiser woman and with so much class. I’m happy she’s moved on and she seems content with that decision. Chris Brown will not change. Not unless he gets help and I’m not convinced he’s doing that.

    That said, this interview was a masterstroke of PR. All his attempts to claw back some popularity with his numerous interviews and tweets have come to naught with one fell swoop. She, with one interview, has refocused the discussion back to his unforgivable, inexcusable actions that night. And I’m really pleased about that. No one should forget or excuse what this boy did to her. And will continue to do unless he takes responsiblity for his actions and stop pretending it was some minor event he can tweet away.

  33. maddie says:

    Plus ABUSE does not always start with a bunch, sometime it starts with under minding the victims confidence in there self where YOU question what is right and wrong.

  34. Prissa says:

    Okay, I’m putting my 2 cents in. I was both in an abusive relationship and an abuser. I would scratch, slap, hit and threaten with knifes. Honestly, there was one time when I scratched a man’s face and he punched me in the eye so hard I LITERALLY saw stars. I thought that was only in cartoons, but it is real. You really can see stars if you are hit hard enough.

    So, I’m of the thought that a woman should not provoke a man, but at the same time because a man is stronger than a woman, he shouldn’t beat her down as a response to her behavior. But NEITHER person is right PERIOD.

    I was in the abusive relationship so long that when I finally left (after he choked me till I passed out while our baby daughter sat at my feet screaming & crying) violence was a conditioned response for me. The next relationhip I was in as soon as we started arguing I lashed out. He, however, instead of hitting me back he immediately stopped and said “I am not going to do this with you. I will leave if you treat me this way”. And I stopped. It wasn’t overnight but when I felt myself getting riled up I acknowledged it and make the effort not to lash out. I had to re-condition myself to respond more appropriately.

    So no it is not right for a woman to provoke a man, but I think a man who has morals & values will walk away instead of responding with violence because they know that men are stronger than women and can do more damage if they really want to.

    Evidently Chris really wanted to.

  35. gg says:

    @ tiffay – that is one crazy backpedaling tapdance you are attempting. Don’t trip and fall …

    If Rihanna slapped or struck him first, how much damage do you think this tiny girl could inflict on this muscle-bound guy? Even if she hurt him, which I doubt, I’ll just bet she never does it again after barely escaping with her life. Is that not enough for you, or are you such a superfan of Brown’s that you willingly want to see her go down? Why? Jealousy, plain and simple.

    Anybody that would stick up for Chris Brown on this story is just a lovestruck blind Brown fan trying to mitigate the damage he’s done. Facts remain that he nearly killed her, and then the boy ran away! Nobody’s buying the thin fan smokescreen, mostly because of Brown’s actions after the event, which are ongoing.

    Teehee and Prissa, thank you so much for your honest thoughts. It couldn’t have been easy to relay all this, and I for one appreciate your viewpoints. God bless you.

  36. truth says:

    riri needs to get counseling to deal with her issues of self-hate. abuse happens small at first (words) then progress to something bigger (physical). if she really loved herself, riri would not have layed a finger to chris and she would not let him even talk cross to her — at any time. i dated a guy who called me a bitch and yelled in my face looking for an altercation. you know what i did — asked him to leave and we broke up. the first time should be the only time. no one deserves to get their face beaten but it all started with his words. she should have left when the words were cross.

  37. ! says:

    “two young people with no supervision leads to this — violence”

    Really, “Truth”? ‘Cause I’m a young person, and when I was even younger and unsupervised, guess what? NO VIOLENCE EVER HAPPENED. Your logic is flawed and you’re simply a starry eyed moron in denial.

  38. ! says:

    Oh yes and tiffay *slow applause* way to backpedal. Liar. Liar, abuse apologist, and empty headed sheep.

  39. teehee says:

    Oh wow… Thank you for the appreciation! Im not used to that on here LOL That means a lot to me. 🙂

  40. Firestarter says:

    @Truth- Well I guess you are better than all of us other abuse victims, because I was with a man who was verbally abusive, and I didn’t leave until after he got physically abusive. Why did I stay, because he was a good talker and a king of many promises and excuses. He was going through some difficulties,( all of his own making) and when he would start the verbal assaults, he would chalk them up to stress or pressure of financial difficulties. His family even involved themselves by telling me that he “needed” me (yeah, to pay his bloody bills!) and how unfair it would be if I left him when the going got tough. He had so destroyed my self esteem and my confidence, that I began to believe him when he said I was a quitter and I was not mature enough to handle a relationship if it wasn’t “perfect”. Granted, your self esteem cannot be ruined if you don’t allow it to be, and I was weak and allowed him to get into my head.

    My point is, sometimes relationships with verbal and emotional abuse are not so cut and dried that you can see that individual as a physical abuser. I said somewhere yesterday, men, especially the abusers, tend to have “party manners” during a good portion of a relationship, and then only allow their true selves to show after they have gradually worn you down emotionally and mentally.

    It took the actual physical abuse to get me the hell out. I knew that once that behavior started it would never stop. I took appropriate legal action and that was the end of that. Each abusive relationship is unique, so you cannot say what someone else should have done because it worked for you. Each person and their reasoning is different. So please do not say that the minute he got verbally abusive she should have walked out, because you do not know how the abuse in their relationship started nor how she felt or how he made her feel. Just like no one knows how much you had or didn’t have invested in your relationship emotionally. What worked for you doesn’t necessarily hold true for everyone.

  41. Praise St. Angie! says:

    (firestarter, I think I love you even more, if that’s possible. well said.)

  42. truth says:

    firestarter i think you should have seen the warning signs. i believe women need to stop making excuses. you know when your body tells you something is wrong. act upon that fear deep inside. LEAVE!! LEAVE QUICKLY!!!

    i believe i am not the victim b/c i listen to that fear.

    thanks for the compliment. never been hit by a man.

  43. truth says:

    @ firestarter you would not let a woman talk down to you so why would you give a man that chance. respect should be the foundation of ANY relationship. once that is gone you will find abuse.

  44. sarah says:

    I’m really impressed that she has so much insight into what happened and her own emotions about it. It took me from 18 to 21 to finally get myself away from an abusive boyfriend. I understand the feeling of loving someone and going back to them even though they’ve done these frightening things. I know now that even if he did love me, he was manipulating me. I was young and embarassed, like she said, so I would defend him. Even after I broke up with him for the last time, I still said things like “I’ll always love him.” After time it became, “I hope he finds happiness” then it was “I wouldn’t want to see him hit by a bus,” now, 10 years later it’s “I hope he stays as far away from me and my life as possible and if he’s dead, so be it.”

    So to those of you who say that they both have culpability here, get a grip. I’m sure it was a high drama relationship, like mine was. But even so, things can seem good for a while, but they can escalate quickly. Now if I were to tell you that one night my ex said that he stabbed a stray dog that was attacking his pet ferret. When I told him he could have probably picked up the ferret and avoided killing the stray and that he’d acted totally crazy, he picked my puppy up by the neck to prove to me that I would defend my animal too. At hearing the whines of my poor dog, I slapped at him and screamed at him. He knocked me down, pulled out a knife and it was the only time in my life that I truly believed he would kill me. But instead of stabbing me, he stabbed the couch just above me to scare me. But according to some of you people, I must have done something to instigate it. Geez. There are some people in this world who are not even worth looking at. Somehow I was young and got involved in a horrible relationship that I didn’t know how to get out of. It sounds like she was in a similar situation. He was threatening to kill her and beat her until she was unconscious, but she must have done something to instigate it? It just makes me so sick.

  45. cuppycake says:

    I’m staying out of most of this…but I have to say, even if we don’t know what the hell was going on between these two during this time frame, there is NO excuse to beat a woman, or choke her, or leave bruises like the ones she had.
    I like how she’s finally started talking about it, maybe it’ll raise awareness.

  46. teehee says:

    Mind games are intense; people like that will go to extreme lengths and say or do anythign to keep you there. All sorts of guilt trips, logical loops, projections of guilt, and even appealing higher causes like ‘you’ll go to hell if you divorce me’ or ‘the children will be ruined’… it’s something that isn’t too easy to spot unless you know what to look for, and that is usually learned through experience.
    Also people who are trapped by the potent tactics they use, usually have reasons for it. As in, it isnt as easy as listening to the fear or heeding the signs; assuming that they even recognized them to begin with but then decided to brush it aside, it usually means they aren’t yet aware of themselves and don’t know they deserve better, or maybe have never seen better and have no idea what it is; or they are unaware of themselves as to what they are still seeking form the other person/the relationship. Or most often, the abuser gradually gains control over the victims whole life such that they are unable to leave when they finally do want to. My mom had no education and no job, no car, no relatives, no friends, no work experience, no nothing by the time she realized she had to leave to save our lives.

    It is right that a person ought leave- I agree- as soon as hey are abused but unfortunately it just doesnt always play out like that, and it hasnt always, ever since abuse has existed between humans, which is essentially all of time.

    I commend your advice to leave, every victim needs to hear that and be reminded of that rule. Yet dont thnk its all on the victim if they are caught, or at least realize there are many factors that make it very difficult for a person to make that decision.

    * Oh on a separate note, what constitutes ‘instigation’ can be ANYTHING> IN the midn of someone as messed up as an abuser, even a wrong look at them or what you wear or smiling at someone else can cause them to knock you unconscious when no one is around to see it happen. Absolutely normal and healthy behvaiors are ‘triggers’. (such as Rihanna asking him a question)
    So considering that, there is really only two options: lose your entire personality and give up any and everythign that might trigger the abuser — the list of which grows and grows with time to inclue everything– which some people are so starved for love that they will do,
    Or finally leave, when you become capable of doing so.

  47. truth says:

    guys don’t like my pet — be gone!!! threaten my pet you are crazy. don’t need a knife to be plunged into a couch to get the picture.

  48. gg says:

    truth, let me give you a hug and tell you a viewpoint you might not have seen, from MY story.

    When I was 19, I dated a guy aged 21, we went out for about nine months, and then he kicked the crap out of me at my apartment one night because he didn’t like my outfit. No lie.

    I never hit him or expected this crap. It was over the fact that I wasn’t dressed “sexy enough” at a party. I’d never heard anything like this before, and cried and felt ugly. Then when I told him to leave, he decides to kick and punch me. I never hit him, it was impossible because I was too busy trying to cover my head with my arms, and run away. He gave me two black eyes and destroyed one of my big toenails from kicking me, amongst all the other bruises and contusions.

    I told him to leave. He didn’t, he just got madder. I somehow got him to go home and thought I was rid of him. I wasn’t, because that’s when the stalking started. I called the cops and they said they’d keep a lookout for him. I later found out that all his exes had reports on him, and the cops never acted, apparently.

    I made plans to move asap. He would sleep in his van in my apartment complex parking lot on occasion, and kidnapped my cat, alternating between offering to help me find my lost cat, and killing my cat, depending on his mood. I lived in fear for about a week until I could get out. I was a young girl living alone.

    Long story short, I had to move four more times to finally rid myself of this demon, and now he’s stalking me and my friends on facebook, thirty years later.

    So, are you still sure that any woman who’s beaten by someone she’s been in a relationship with, is responsible for herself being beaten just because you assume she never said she wanted to leave the relationship? Did I deserve further abuse after I called the cops and they couldn’t stop him?

    Violent sociopaths come back, hon, madder than ever. It’s not the simplest thing to get rid of maniacs. Count yourself EXTREMELY LUCKY that you could reason with your abuser. Because that is usually not the case.

    In case you missed my message in all of that, it’s this: Women are not “dumb” to get beaten on. You can’t always talk reason with a violent person.

  49. truth says:

    @gg no thank you on the hug. i love myself VERY much. don’t need validation from people. i have NO sympathy for anyone that lets themselves get disrespected. good you called the cops. if you live in a state that allow you to purchase arms at walmart take that trip and get yourself a nice gun. stand on the belief that you deserve better and act accordingly.

  50. Firestarter says:

    @Praise St.Angie- Thank you! I am your biggest fan! ((hugs))

    @Truth- Telling me I should have seen this, and that I was making excuses is a bunch of bullshit. ALL RELATIONSHIPS ARE NOT THE SAME. Can you grasp that concept? Just because you sit on your lofty perch, saying how you did this and how you never would allow that, does not make you an authority on verbal, emotional and physical abuse.
    If you have time, emotions and finances invested in a fairly serious relationship, you may think otherwise. You may see things as cut and dried, but the reality is we are all different, and abusers and their motives, tactics and methods of abuse are ALL DIFFERENT as well. So please do not tell me what I should have done or known because you were not in my relationship.

    Seems to me like you make a lot of excuses for the Chris Browns of the owrld and actually would probably get along with my ex with your philosophies on abuse.

    Side note: I did not raise a hand to my ex, even to defend myself. So this crap that apologists spew about hitting only in defense and that is what Brown did. Men do not need an excuse to hit a woman. I am a broken record on this issue: It is about control, not defending oneself, but control and humiliation of the other person in order to “keep them in line”.

    I swore I wasn’t going to get involved in this thread today, but reading the crap I do makes me sick. No wonder women continue to remain in abusive relationships, because so many people think they are lying, at fault or deserving of it. A sad commentary on the world we live in as well as male/female relationships.

    I am done. Cheers!

  51. Zarah says:

    “You can’t always talk reason with a violent person. ”

    Absolutely. I am moved by all your personal stories and thank God for your lives and that you were all able to put such horrific situations behind you. For women like Truth who blame other women for their abuse? I got nothin’. Except to say, that is truly, truly sad.

  52. truth says:

    i am done with this post; therefore don’t respond b/c i have a life to live outside of blogs.

    “so just ive your life, yeyeeyeye” — rihanna

  53. Prissa says:

    Adding another 2 cents. Both parties are sick, even when the woman is the aggressor. When I got my eye blackened I felt a sick sort of pride because he had marks too. It was like tit for tat -“you see my ____, but look at his ____” fill in the blanks. Like somehow I felt I was holding my own in the fight if I was able to leave marks too. Purely idiotic and I learned that when I got my jaw broke. Women are no match for men and we shouldn’t start stuff because men can surely end it.

    I think some of the “abuse defenders” are just trying to remind readers that there are women out there like I used to be and like M’s aunt. Women like us feed off of the drama in a sick twisted way. I’m not saying that is what Rhiana did but just putting it out there. Food for thought…

  54. Firestarter says:

    @Sarah and GG I am truly sorry you had such terrible experiences with a man too. (((hugs))) to both of you!
    Glad you are both okay! Thank God we lived to see another day after those men we were with!

    Also@Truth- I don’t think you even read anyone’s posts in their entirety. Perhaps if you bothered to read them and understand them, you would not make the comments you have.

    And you know, I do have a gun, a S&W .44 because I cannot rest assured that one day that freak won’t come back to finish what he started.

    It might be nice if you visited a battered women’s shelter and hear some of the HORRIBLE stories those women have. There are those of us, on here, that are lucky we escaped with the injuries and mental scarring that we did. There are women out there that not only have to continually run from their psycho women beating husbands/bf’s, but bear terrible emotional and physical scars of their traumas forever.

    My friend, out of fear that maybe I would weaken and go back to him, made me go to a shelter and listen one night to a group meeting. I was horrified at what I heard and saw that I could very well have been in their same position if I continues to be with my psycho. Once a man starts to hit you, they never will stop. That is a promise.

  55. gg says:

    Wow. truth, I do see your attitude about it, and it seems very negative and shallow to me. I was not being patronizing in offering you a hug. It was genuine.

    You reveal deep-seated anger in your posts. Peace. I mean it.

  56. flourpot says:

    Can’t let truth get the last word in, now can we folks? Not with drivel like that. So I’ll just send virtual hugs to all of you and three cheers for folks strong enough to do as Rihanna did and cut ties.

  57. teehee says:

    Hug accepted, and returned! 🙂 For everyone, I mean

  58. gg says:

    Thank you very much for the hugs and support, you all.

    One more thing I’d like to add about stories like these and “truth”‘s message of casting shame and blame:

    Piling on shame to the victims is the absolute worst thing you can do. It’s why young women are hesitant to ask for help. We want people to be aware to stop perps.

    And I’m glad something positive is coming out of this Chris Brown $hit, because it truly boils my ass. OOPS

  59. Elle says:

    She’s a brave woman. I never talk about things like that. It’s why abusers get away with their actions. I find it hard to believe that people can say that Rihanna who is all of 90 pounds and about 5 foot 2 inches was capable of fighting back? He’s so much bigger than her! He could’ve killed her–easily. I just don’t understand the mentality of some people. Very heartless.

  60. elk says:

    A woman hitting a man is not the same. Me and my sister used to fight all the time and she’d hit me as hard at she could and it didn’t do much. I’d hit her back at half force and it would really hurt her.
    I’m not saying I’m a big strong guy or she’s weak but it’s just not the same.

  61. GatsbyGal says:

    Let’s hope this interview is the final nail is Chris Brown’s coffin.

  62. HashBrowns says:

    Hugs to all the women on this blog who have been brave enough to speak out about their experiences without shame or embarrassment.

    No woman deserves to get what any of the women on this blog have written about. Even the ones who hit their boyfriends back. A man should be a man and know that he can inflict much more damage on a woman than she can him, especially in the case of Rihanna and Chris Brown.

    It makes me literally sick to think that there are women out there who can say with a straight face that Rihanna deserved what she got.

  63. lastwordlinda says:

    Firestarter, my sister is a nurse at a domestic violence and sexual assault unit in the local hospital and I have heard some horror stories from her. As well, I, too, was in an abusive relationship at one time and ran the gamut as far as that kind of experience can go. Everything you have said so far about abuse, the victims, the perps, is true. Each situation is different, as are the individuals involved. Glad you put your 2 cents worth in on this topic. (and where the hell is the cent sign on my keyboard. Damn new computer, have they taken it away!!?)

  64. Mimi says:

    @Firestarter I most of the time that i come here to read the comments i agree with what u have to say but i’m not comment in every topic i only comment in the ones that call my attention. I have to say that most of the time I find myself agreeing with your comments on different topics except of course when it involves JP we probably will never agree about this 🙂 So i really like ur comments especially the one at 4:22 mark i totally agree with u and so I have to admit that have grown in myself respect and admiration for you and I never imagined this would happen i just want to say U ARE REALLY A AMAZING PERSON and deserve the best in everything u want to accomplish in ur life take care of yourself and keep ur head up
    @ And gg ur history is very scary and i hope u can get rid once and for all from that maniac. All the stories told here are important because they teach us all different situations and although it is important to be alert to the signs you never know when the person who at first seems caring will become violent verbally or physically.
    Even u “truth” you did not see the signs before? this is not your motto be alert to the signs? it just shows that can happen to anyone at any time and that man has always to control their temper with a woman because no matter what a woman tell if she is not with a gun to pointed to your head or threatening you with a knife she probably never will be able to hurt him as he is able to hurt her when she don’t have any weapon to try to hurt him

  65. rossgirl says:

    I’m with u on this princess pea… i would never want this experience of a beating for any one! it would cause awful possible revenge also… kudos for RhiRhi speaking up for herself and her little fans!

  66. Firestarter says:

    @Mimi- Thank you very much for the very very kind words! That made me feel really good. Very sweet of you to say! It’s all in fun with the JP! To be honest, I have no problem with them really. It always sparks lively debate to be in those threads!

    Again, thank you so much for the complimens. It is nice to hear that when sometimes the people in your day to day life don’t see those things in you!

    All the best to you as well! : ) ((hugs))

    @lastwordlinda-Sorry that you too had to go through a tough time as well. Thanks for reading my posts and adding validity to them.

    It isn’t easy to even go on the anonymous internet and discuss my experience with abuse. I have just been very vocal on Celebitchy about it because the posters are very smart and educated. Since opening up here about it, I have read posts of other abuse victims and eventhough I have been to a shelter to hear others speak about their experiences, it is also comforting to read that I am are not alone and others think like I do about the topic and have lived to tell the tale. I am no expert on the topic of domestic abuse myself, and only speak of it from my heart and experience with it. I was not raised around violence and never did I think that I would be in a situation like I ended up in. I never have told my parents about what I went through, because honestly, both would probably be in jail for murder if they knew that the man they had allowed into their home beat on me and tortured me mentally.

    Like I said, until you find yourself in the situation, you cannot know what you would do. These horrible creatures use every evil trick in the book to hurt your mind, heart and then body. The important lesson I took away from the whole mess is that I am strong and I CAN handle just about anything, on my own, and not be ashamed about my choices. We all make mistakes, and sometimes we make poor choices for ourselves, but at the end of the day, if you can correct those mistakes and choices, and turn your life around, then that is all that matters.

    I do apologize for my frequent and long posts on the subject, but the Rihanna incident and people’s reactions to it have both saddened me and also made me realize that people do not often understand that violence is NOT the answer to problems within a relationship.

    Another mportant lesson I learned from my ordeal- Verbal and emotional abuse are every bit as damaging and painful as the physical side. Those are the scars that I carry with me, even now. If you find yourself even in that type of relationship, GET OUT! It doesn’t get better either, and I think, will no doubt lead to physical abuse sometime down the road.

    Thanks for reading everyone and thanks for the support. : )

  67. Trashaddict says:

    Wow. There are way too many stories of women being abused here. It means we have to teach our daughters to love themselves better, trust their instincts more, and recognize the early signs so they can get out. And there have to be consequences for the abusers. So whatever you may think about Rihanna, she made a huge step in the right direction Peace to all of you who made it through to the other end. If anyone else is holding on for dear life, hope this helps you to come through, too.

  68. Tracee says:

    How Accommodating That All Of A Sudden Her New Album Is Coming Out (With Songs That Sound Like A Hot Cup Of Mess) She Wants To Play The Sacrificial Lamb. Give Me A Break!!

    Chris Brown Needs To Stop Playin’ The Nice Guy And Go At This Chick Hard Because She Is Dragging His Name Through The Mud! IT TAKES TWO PEOPLE TO FIGHT!!!

  69. Jax says:

    I don’t think she deserved to get beaten BUT I do think that when a woman is with a man and they are fighting that she has a sense when things are going to become violent. There is a point when you can see a man is enraged that you should stop baiting him, stop fighting and walk away for your own safety. You can’t tell me that Rihanna didn’t see that point in her and Chris that night. She crossed that line anyway. I am not saying she deserved it but in some ways she allowed it to happen. She should have left the car long before it had escalated to that point where he started punching her. No one will ever make me believe she didn’t see it coming down and she just kept pushing him. She knows it too and that’s why she bears some of the guilt. You can see it in her when she talks about that night. She knows that she could have protected herself and didn’t.

  70. Jax says:

    Just wanted to back up and say that no one should think I am excusing Brown for beating her. I am certainly not. HE too could have walked away once he knew he was losing control of his anger. Walked away long before he laid his hands on her. Maybe she kept at him because she never really thought he would hurt her. Whatever. I’m not in any way saying it was her own fault she got hurt.

    My point was simply this. When two people are fighting and see each other losing it both have the responsibility to walk away before it erupts into violence that hurts someone. I am assuming here that we are talking about rational people who in their right mind don’t want to hurt someone they care about. It’s a different story when it is a man who is just looking for someone to abuse so he can feel like a big man. There is no hope with those kind of people and all a woman can do is run the minute they see that need to control and intimidate in a man. I guess I hope Chris is young enough he can get help with his impulses and not go on to be a serial abuser. So sad to see his life and career flushed down the toilet.

  71. teehee says:

    about ‘it takes two to fight’:
    Yes both people involved in a fight are of course involved in it;
    but does that make fighting ok? No
    does it mean anyone deserves to be fought with? no
    does it mean its ok to NOT have or use the self-discipline and rationality needed to deal with an issue respetfully, without fighting? no

    And abuse and fighting are two VERY different things! You can ‘fight’ or argue or debate with someone, without ever hurting them, emtionally or pysically. The object of a fight is to reach a resolution about a subject; abuse on the other hand has the sole object of damaging or destroying the other person emotonally, mentally, pshycially, spiritually etc.
    I was just saying this in a previous thread, that you can debate and disagree and be right or wrong without having to harm someone else or put them down; yes two people are involved but it doesnt mean anyone deserves the other persons disrespect and immaturity.
    If a fight only ‘masks’ your desire or need to hurt someone else or prove them wrong (put them down below you) and turns into an opportunity to finally act out your intentions to disresepct someone else, then you are just doing a good job of hiding your true colors (fooling yourself!) until pushed farther and have issues that need to be resolved so thatyou could be at peace both with yourselfand other people.
    When I say ‘you’ I am referring to anyone, just to getmy point across.

    And tracee if telling the truth about someone drags their name through the mud, then maybe that perons did something to harm their own reputation. Since when was it anyones job to lie, to make another person look better than they are? Or when was it anyones job to make anyone look good or bad– she is only telling her story, and people will automatically draw their own conclusions abou the both of them as a result. If Chris winds up getting the bad reputation after this, it is hardly somethng that Rihanna needs to be hated or blamed for. In fact, most of the disregard for Chris is a result of the things he himself has said and done since the beating.
    She actually fully supports Chris and expresses her love and support for him. She does not try to tarnish his name. She backs him up. She only gives details of her INNER experience and feelings about that night. She describes what went through her mind, what made her decide to leave, etc. She is NOT trying to “make him look bad”, or even pay sacrificial lamb, at ALL. She didnt cry or try to conjure sympathy or go on multiple interviews apologizing or demanding understanding…..

  72. Jax says:

    @ teehee

    You make an excellent point that abuse and fighting are two different things. If a person is an abuser picking fights to give him or her an excuse to hurt someone either verbally or physically then they are already beyond the point I’m trying to make and those people rarely change. All you can do is stay away from them as they don’t usually have any desire to get the kind of help to change them.

    I am assuming that Chris and Rihanna are still young enough that a fight simply got out of control and neither has a life of chronic abuse ahead of them. Only time will tell if Chris is going to become the kind of man who looks for weak women to abuse over and over again. He is still so young that I hope this shocked him enough to get the kind of real help he needs to control himself. I’m giving him the benefit of the doubt and hoping he doesn’t want to be the kind of man who hurts a woman ever again. One thing for sure. He isn’t finding much forgiveness now, if he ever hurts another woman there will be NONE. I hope he knows this. I just think he is too young to write off as a lost cause.

  73. Sincerity says:

    I feel extremely blessed that I have never been in a physically abusive relationship but I have known women who have experienced them. Firestarter’s observations are very insightful. Not all situations are identical and it’s up to the victim to use their better judgment when dealing with an abuser. Many women who had the resources to leave their abusers were still murdered by them when they left. The reality is that our legal system can only do so much to protect us and too many police departments and courts need more education regarding domestic violence, period. Regardless of who initiated what, beating someone to “a pulp” is not acceptable.

  74. Firestarter says:

    First of all, I really liked what Rihanna had to say last night. IMO, it was a great interview, and I think now all of those people who long claimed she hit him first, and deserved what she got can now see how wrong they were.

    @Jax- I didn’t need to even say A WORD, for my ex to start screaming at me. The night he punched me in the face and hurt me, all I did was tell him I left my purse at home. We were in a car, it was raining and he even pretended he was going to run into the concrete barrier and kill me. All I did was tell him, and meekly I might add, that I left my purse at home. So you tell me, was I supposed to know from that statement, that night, that I would get beat up? When we got home, he dragged me by my hair, into the house and threw me into a door, which came off the hinges and got me hurt even more because in his addled mind “I broke the door” Did I speak to him on the long ride home after he intially punched me in the face? No, not a word. So what exactly did I do, other than forget my purse at home, that had MY MONEY in it, to deserve what I got? How should I have seen THAT coming exactly? He hadn’t done that to me before, so like Rihanna, I was terrified. I could go into further detail but it is not necesssary to get my point across.

    Bottom line, I had NEVER dealt with verbal, physical or emotional abuse before. Ever! Even though I was not some 18 yr old, naive girl, I was no more educated or prepared for this man’s outbursts and psycotic behavior than a young girl would be. Perhaps his escalating disrespect of me and verbal abuse should have tipped me off, but something I have not mentioned before is that before being in a serious relationship with him, I had known him for several years and he was a nice, caring man. Little did I know that he was quite the opposite to the women in his life with whom he had romantic relationships with. The thing that I take responsibility for is my decision to date this man, put up with verbal/emotional abuse for the period of time that I did, but in no way did I ever imagine that the person I had known for a long time was actually a monster.

    The tragic thing is that Rihanna’s story echoed mine in sooooooo many ways: the fear,the behavior, the self doubt, the depression, and the violence itself. What most people are failing to understand is that no matter the argument and what is said between two people, no man who is normal and with a healthy mind allows themselves to get so angry that they let their fists take over. I have had a few heated arguments with people in my life. Did it ever cross my mind to hit them because I was so angry? Never! That is the whole point, NO ANGER should take you over enough that you feel that hitting another individual is the correct and only solution. That is NOT normal. Not normal thinking, not normal behavior. To hit someone or hurt someone it should be done in matters of defense and protection only.

    IMO, trash resolve conflicts with their fists. There, I said it. There is no excuse for a man to raise a hand, ever, to a woman. Anyone saying Rihanna should have gotten out of the car when this whole matter started, uh what would you have her do? Jump from a moving vehicle? I was also in a moving vehicle and honest to God, there was no way the insane fool my ex became that night, was going to stop that car and let me go quietly. Not a chance in hell. I suspect Rihanna was in the same situation.

    I will say it again, when something like this happens, you haven’t a clue what you are going to do, or how you should handle it. All that crosses your mind, and it was spooky for me to hear Rihanna say the same thing that I had felt during my ordeal “When is it going to stop, will it stop, will I live through this, my God, my family!” Abuse on any level, should not be accepted by society or even tolerated. No one should think ” Well she deserved it, she must have done something….” Abusers more often than not, need no excuse to abuse. Then there are those, like Chris Brown that are not able to tell the truth to save their lives, and when they are confronted with lies they have told can only respond by hitting in order to try and justify their behavior.

    Decent thinking individuals resolve conflict through discussion, not violence. It astonishes me that people will be outraged over a war in Iraq, where innocent lives are lost protecting our country, but people are less horrified over the many women who lose their lives DAILY , here, in our own country, at the hands of someone who allegedly loves them. If Rihanna had been killed, myself or the other women on this thread who shared their stories, would it then be bad? Or would their still be questions regarding who did what or started the fight? I believed that night, I would not be alive to see the next day. It is terrifying to even feel that way for a second, much less for a few minutes or hours. People who have never experienced that have no idea the fear one endures during those moments. I hope no one reading this ever has to.

    By the way, once a man beats a woman, young or old, they will do it again and again, and again. Check out the stats, you will be amazed at what you find.

    Tracee- Go buy Chris’s new cd and please don’t speak about things you have no idea about.

    TeeHee- Great points. Great post. Thanks!

  75. cat says:

    I love how this interview came out conveniently a few weeks before her album comes out. It’s sad she has to pose as the victim to sell records because she doesn’t have any talent.

  76. teehee says:

    I know Ive overyacked my welcome, but I wanted to toss in another point I think is very important. A bit tangential, but very relevant.
    Those who say it takes two, or who can otherwise be interpreted as apologists, usually are following the reasoning that any one person is responsible for the actions of another.
    That is never, ever true– we are only acountable for the actions we ourselves commit, and never those of another individual.

    This point, is why abusers abuse, and why victims can get stuck in teh victim mindframe. Interestingly, both vicim and abuser share this train of thought, although one will blame the other for ‘making them angry’ while the other will blame someone for ‘making them feel bad’ or ‘hurting them’.
    (Consider also the major point that abusers were almost always thenselves victms earlier in life.)

    Either way, it is a thought that takes away your personal power. So no wonder abusers are so hungry for power and control! And no wonder victims wind up going from one abuser to another.

    Think of how miserable life is, when all you can do is sit around beign hurt or angry and victimized at the hands of everyone and everything around you, as it all just ‘happens to you’. Think of how angry you would become if in your eyes, people werent doing enough to ever make you happy, or werent owning up to their “responsibility” to direct and control your emotions, or life situation. If all everyone did was ‘make you angry’ then by far you have no control over yourself and have reason to hate, distrust, and fear everyone and thing around you. Hence the inferiority complex and extreme paranoia/jealousy of many abusers.

    In other words, it is as Rihanna said: these people need to GROW UP, because only children can claim other people as responsible for their own actions or feelings (kids do what people say; and they simply havent yet developed the skill of taking responsibility and disciplining themselves).
    It is excusable when you are 5, to say someoe else made you ______.
    But eventually, you are supposed to learn that every feeling and action is A CHOICE YOU MAKE.
    So it is — In My Eyes- invalid to use the same faulty thinking and say X is responsible for what Y did, in all the various forms it can be said: either because someone stays or leaves, because of who they are or what they did or didnt do, etc. A conclusion based on mislocated responsibility!

    No one is the victim of anything; whether they are the abused or abuser.
    I learned the importance of not thinking that way because of the very thin line to cross between victim and abuser. Their thinking is basically the same; someone is just physically or verbally or mentally stronger/more EXternally SELF-aggressive and SELF-loathing than the other when they are paired up. (both have high aggression/loathing directed internally but some also express that self-aggression in an outward direction)
    Basically you go from being self-hating victim to other-aggressive abuser depending on how much ego you have or how damaged your ego is, and how much you try to protect it from the “pain someone else just caused you” by trying to prove the other is responsible (through your words, or, your fists, or your tears!) so that they dont do it again- or , do something to “make” you feel BETTER again. Not until you learn that you can take care of yourself and handle whatever a situation brings you, do you stop expecting on others to be responsible for your own well being/take care of you.

    No, no no I am not a trained expert and yes I have ‘come up with this’ myself just based on my experience and inner searching so you can and will tear this to shreds if you want to LOL.
    This IS just something I saw within MYself. And bit scattered and semi-tangential.
    But I do happen to see this thinking is apparently present in those who think abuse is ok or warranted… (she stayed, she hit first) so I thought it was worth bringing up here.
    No one is responsible for the acts of another. Period.

    And I welcome counterpoints/questions, it is healthy fo rme to see gaps in my own thinking.
    Just be polite *hides* LOLOLOL =)

  77. Mimi says:

    Firestarter hugs to u too and again you continue to amazed me with your comments directly at the point of the issue. I absolutely agree with you and I owe u a huge thank you because you just say exactly what I was thinking.
    But what you and probably many people who shared with us their stories of survival of abusive violent people have probably noticed is that many people still prefer to ignore that these men could fight without attacking physically nobody, ignore the fact that they also could have gone away to cool their head, ignore the fact that the Discussion began in the case of RiRi because she found that he was probably cheating on her and she wanted to discuss the matter and not be almost dead by asking questions and wanting answers, ignore the fact that the cd of their idol is also about to come out, ignore the fact that he gave several interviews to various channels, people who support it him ignore endless facts but when RiRi finally speaks and I do not care if it’s because of her CD after all if he can she can too, what interests me is that she speak and did not seem a jerk or not understand what she was saying and she seems genuine unlike CB that have being portrayed when he gives interviews was a fool unintelligent and stupid.
    And I want to say I never experienced anything of what you all have but i admire all for sharing your experiences.
    And i want to tell people like me who never went through what these brave women have to learn to think it could be with you, you mother, you daughter, cousins, aunts, grandparents, etc. learn to put yourself in the same place and same situation as other people with problems that you did not have experienced before talking so much crap and looking like an moron ignorant person who supports abusive violent people.

  78. Elle says:

    What people don’t know–Brown should’ve been charged with “assault with a deadly weapon.” In Calif, if you have athletic training (like a black belt or MMA fighter) and you assault someone, your hands are considered “a deadly weapon.” By law, it’s considered an extremely unfair advantage over a normal person. Brown got off very easy because he’s rich and famous.

  79. gg says:

    @ firestarter, I had never experienced fighting before either. I grew up in a military household where we were not allowed to fight or talk back or defend ourselves, so I hear your story deeply.

    @ Jax, you have no earthly clue about what you’re talking. You’ve just spun up a storyline based on your own guesswork. Ergo, no point.

    I have no words left for the rest of the abuse-enabling Chris Brown apologists. Your words are merely inventions borne of fan crushes for this dipshit.

  80. cassie says:

    She doesn’t have to pose as a victim the pics and him pleading guilty demonstrates she was a victim. As for album / concert he has done interviews Larry King , MTV, youtube statements and he has vever denied that he beat her and threatened to kill her. He belongs in jail not picking up trash

  81. teehee says:

    …Mmmm… I still feel that not ALL or every person who uses a fight as a chance to abuse is necessarily beyond hope. If that were always true then I wouldnt be saying the things I have said and in the postiion I am now in to speak out against abuse. I still feel its always a choice and anone can choose to be and do anything. So I agree with you, Jax, that we cant just write them all off. It kind of creates an environment more rich for abuse: they arent accepted or loved because of what theyve done or who they are, and they hear that they cant be forgiven or are “impossible to cure” and thus have an excuse/encouragement to stay the way they are rather than seek to understand themselves and grow. They have already given up on themselves, and everyone else doing so doesnt make it better.
    I know its easy to mistake forgiveness OF behavior for permittance or condoning of behavior. Thats not at all what I want to do; I condemn the acts but not the person. Abusers often have already never experienced love, and thats why they do what they do. So the answer is (hasnt it always been?) more love so they can stop seeing themselves as worthless monsters and then acting on that belief. Teach them why they have the right to love themselves, too- (not including bad behavior!) not just the recipinets of their violence. We all have that right. Its that age old thing- if you cant love or respect yourself, how can you love or respect others? Why should they deserve more than you? How can you give something you do not have…
    And no, lovig them does NOT equal taking abuse. It is doing them and yourself a disservice to allow it/take it. It is also not trying to change them, or expecting them to evetually change. More like, you love them by loving yourself, being an example, showing how much happier and more successful you could be, because you dont have that shame and self-hatred that they have, and you have a different ay of seeing yourself and the world and others than what they have…different life skills and a diferent level of maturity.

    Those with eyes who want to see it, will see it.

    The rest, well they can be loved just the same but left to travel their path of choice without you; and hopefully in this lifetime or another one they will overcome their demons.
    And what will you have gained or lost, for having loved one more person?

  82. Lucinda says:

    I think she was well-spoken, honest and showed a level of wisdom unexpected in a girl her age. Clearly she has had some time to really think about this whole situation. Her acknowledging her continuing love and good wishes for Chris really illustrates how complex the relationship (or any relationship for that matter is).

    If you do not grow up in an abusive environment (physically or mentally) where you are taught that you are valueless), how could you possibly recognize the signs of abuse? So when a man demeans you, degrades you, tells you that you are worthless, you don’t see that as abuse. You see it as what you are worth.

    Other times, it comes unexpectedly. Or your strong emotions for the person allow you to make excuses for them. Or you are violent too. Or you block things out as often happens with abuse. All these have been pointed out. Abuse is complex and if you don’t understand that, you are actually a very fortunate person.

    There is never a good reason to hit someone. Nothing she could have done merited the treatment she received from the man who LOVED her. Let’s not forget that. He loved her.

    Unless you are defending your own life, violence is inexcusable. Perhaps you believe Chris felt his life was in danger?

  83. Firestarter says:

    @Mimi- Again, I appreciate your kind words! Very nice of you! : )

  84. Zarah says:

    On her love and good wishes for him – I got the impression she loves him, as the friend he once was, the love he once was and as a human being, but she’s not in love with him anymore. Or at the very least is very close to that point. When she said ‘I have no desire at all to be with him’ that was a very good thing.

    She wishes him well because well, she’s a decent chick who has realised that in order to completely put this and him behind her, she has to let go of resentment and hate, otherwise she’ll be mired in this nightmare forever. She’s got a really good head on her shoulders does Rihanna.

  85. GHY says:

    If you poke a dog repeatedly until he bites you, it’s probably your fault you got bit.

    If you poke a dog once and he bites you it’s probably the dog that’s the problem.

    Either way, that dog’s getting put to sleep. Can’t have biters around.

  86. CB Rawks says:

    Sigh. Wake up to yourself, GHY.
    It is terrifying how many people are still trying to say that Chris Brown was provoked and therefore somehow justified.
    It’s IRRELEVANT if he felt provoked. I don’t care if she deliberately spilled her beer on his dashboard, or forgot to lavish him with adoring compliments, there is NO circumstance in which he can hit her.
    No, not even if she was to hit him first, because he knows he is stronger.
    And by the by, can anyone put forward justification for him BITING her?
    No, of course not.

  87. Firestarter says:

    As always, someone has to use the poking dog example.

    What happens when you do not “poke” the dog at all genius, and he attacks you, then what? Whose fault is it then?

    It disgusts me the amount of people who think solving conflict through violence is AOK. It’s not! Take a look at our neighborhoods, schools, places of work. Saying that it is fine to hit back allows for EVERYONE to feel that fists, guns, knives, are teh way to solve a problem.

    Seems to me that this country needs to be educated in ideas of protection and the proper use of force.

  88. gg says:

    GHY –

    Adding to Firestarter’s post: Chris Brown, as a human being and NOT being a dog (allegedly – since I’m starting to doubt he has a human brain), has God-given wits enough to know not to go postal and even bite! on his girlfriend for any reason whatsoever.

    So comparisons to dogs is not really workable as a guideline or talking point. Dogs are not capable of rational human thought.

  89. gg says:

    P.S. I love you Firestarter, please be my best friend. :red:

  90. Fire says:

    Wow – I just caught up, reading everyone’s comments on here.

    First of all, Firestarter, gg and the others on here who have suffered from abuse, of any kind – thank you for sharing your stories with us. It takes a lot (even anonymously) to relive what you dealt with by writing about it now. Thank you. I applaud your strength!!!

    Also, wow. To those others of you who don’t seem to have half a brain – like truth, tiffay, cat….wow – I feel for you guys. Sounds like you don’t have any faults and you’ll never fall victim to abuse yourselves, huh? That’s BULLSHIT! It happens to the best of us. It starts out small and builds and builds. You don’t know what’s happening until you are so deep in it you can’t see it happening. Your views on this subject are so asinine and juvenile that I just had to say something.

    @ cat – rihanna must be so PR savy that she concocted the story back in February, doctored those horrible photos, leaking them on the internet months ago and now is “conveniently” on a PR tour promoting her new album, posing as a victim. Man! What planning!! “Posing as a victim” – that is so idiotic I don’t even know how to respond. She is in fact on a PR tour promoting her new album and she is finally breaking the silence and speaking about the BEATING because she is being asked about it. She is finally talking about it to try to help other young women. What’s sad is the fact that you think she is doing it to sell records. What a huge price to pay to sell some CDs.

    Oh, and Chris Brown is a piece of shit! He bit her, choked her until she passed out and LEFT her on the side of the road. And has the nerve to want her to “keep it private.” What an awesome guy to look up to!

  91. Firestarter says:

    gg- Of course we can be bff’s! ((hugs))

    Fire- Thanks for the kind words as well. Three things I am passionate about: Domestic Violence, Animal Abuse and Child Abuse. I go ape when I see people excusing any of the above actions, because those three groups cannot defend themselves like a man can defend himself.

    It is not easy to tell the tale because like others, initially you are humiliated that it happened to you, then you get angry that it happened to you. The final stage is acceptance and moving on. I am still in the anger stage, and I just freak when I read some of the responses on here regarding this topic.

    Those that give abusers a pass or the benefit of the doubt, more than likely have NEVER known abuse, regarless of what they may say. Nothing is easy when you find yourself in a mess with an abuser. To say I should have seen it coming is like saying, New York should have seen 9/11 coming. You can be the smartest, most aware person out there, and I assure you an abuser can still sneak in on you without you ever having an inkling that is the type of person they are.

    I am just glad it is over for me, and like Rihanna and the other brave ladies on here, I have become wiser because of it. I have also learned to trust people less and keep people at arms length. I hope one day I will be able to be less prickly, but right now it is how I find I must deal with people to make myself feel safe.

  92. Fire says:

    What I still can’t get over is that people are making excuses for this low life. And it seems like a lot of them (on here at least) are women. I can’t wrap my head around that – I really can’t! Maybe they were arguing, maybe Rihanna wouldn’t let something drop, but that is never an excuse for a man to put his hands on a woman – NEVER! (Especially since I think he had a black belt – is that right?) And, from a lot of reports, it wasn’t the first time he got violent with her either. For people on here to say that she is “playing the victim” – I just….it is hard for me to imagine someone thinking that way. She was gracious enough to be silent about it for all these months, while he gave interviews, made videos for YouTube, etc. And now, she is finally speaking out about it, in hopes of helping other young women and he wants her to keep it private. It’s classic abuser mentality. They want everything in private so they can continue the manipulation.

    I wasn’t physically abused, but I have been in emotionally & mentally abusive relationships. The last one I actually just said “enough” and made a clean break. We were going to a counselor and the counselor called me privately, fearing the next step was going to be physical. That’s what I had feared too and hearing the confirmation gave me the strength to say no more. But, it really does happen, a little at a time – you don’t realize it. You think “well, he says he loves me, so this must be ok.” He starts alienating you from your friends and family. It’s easier that way – gives him more control.

    I was lucky, unlike you, Firestarter, and some others on here. I am so sorry you guys ever had to suffer at the hands of another. I am also sorry that you will forever be scarred from that. There really are good people out there! (I finally found my sweet prince!) But I completely understand you keeping people at arm’s length. Keep up the healing! Each day that goes by helps!

  93. JaNa'e says:

    Chris deserves to be able to tell his side of the story. the media is only flocking to rihanna’s side because she’s female. there were reports of her kicking his ass for 2 years before the incident back in february and no one cared. I’m not saying what he did is right but there is no way that she is innocent of any wrong doing. even still she only waited to do the interview now for publicity because it coincided with her album release. Also she claimed to have never hit him back during the entire altercation yet the reports stated that he was bitten up and bruised as well, clearly all the facts have not yet been revealed.