The big Prince Andrew “news” breaking last night is that Windsor Castle removed Andrew’s banner – a banner with his coat of arms – from the display in St. George’s Chapel. The removal of a royal banner is apparently “typically only removed in cases of high treason or rebellions against the Crown.” This is very similar to Andrew “relinquishing” his honors, like Order of the Garter. Royalists insist that these demotions mean something huge because Andrew loves this kind of flummery. When really, the Windsors decided to remove a banner rather than remove a sexual predator.
Speaking of, after days of mainstream political outcry about Andrew, everything is now being quietly taken care of behind the scenes. The Starmer government has shut down a debate about Andrew, his finances, his Royal Lodge lease and his crimes. Hilariously, these are not the only machinations from Buckingham Palace. The palace has decided to throw Queen Elizabeth II right under the bus. Blame Andrew on QEII, she was the one who indulged him! I mean, they’re not wrong?? From Jan Moir’s Mail column:
Is the late Queen Elizabeth to blame for the horror of Prince Andrew? Did she spoil him so much that he grew up convinced of his own specialness, marinated in arrogance, unable to navigate his cushioned world of privilege with even a shred of humility, decency or common sense? Many mothers have blind spots when it comes to their favourite sons, sparing the rod and spoiling the child to such an extent that they unwittingly raise a monster.
Did that happen here? I’m only asking because there must be some explanation for Prince Andrew’s unique loathsomeness; some way of groping through his thicket of thick, his unremitting, clotted arrogance to understand his character and motivation. Given his elevated position in society, Andrew could have become friends with anyone, but he chose to move in a dark world of seedy billionaires, sex offenders, Chinese spies, wicked paedophiles, she-pimps and God knows who else.
Down in the murk at this unsavoury end of an immoral universe his playmates were powerful, clever and wily people who encouraged this pompous dolt to believe he was powerful and clever, too. The reality is that he was only ever a useful idiot to them; a man who was used and abused – and who went on to use and abuse others for his own pleasure.
I am legally obligated at this point to say that Prince Andrew denies the allegations that Virginia Giuffre made against him in her posthumous autobiography and elsewhere. Yet the grand old Duke of York, as we now don’t know him, has demonstrably lied and lied about so many things that who could possibly believe him now? Perhaps not even his own mother.
Survey after survey reveals that people want Andrew officially stripped of his titles by Parliament and booted out of his grace-and-favour Royal Lodge, along with his ridiculous Freebiana of a wife. Day by day Andrew is slipping away from public view, sunk beneath the weight of his disgrace, now facing a police investigation and possible further humiliation.
Yet how did we get here? Even by the blackest standards of the monarchy’s black history, while trotting out on the black meadows of royal blackness, do black sheep come any blacker than Andrew?
They may have their faults, but neither his two brothers nor his sister come anywhere close to Prince Andrew on the royal ghastly-o-meter. Searching for his good qualities is like panning for gold in a sewer – try as you might, you are only ever going to end up with dung in your sieve. Surely part of the problem must be that no matter what he did, Queen Elizabeth could see no wrong in her beloved Andrew. Most mothers have a favourite son, and he was undoubtedly hers – then, now and forevermore.
Moir keeps going and going, but you get the idea. While I don’t think QEII is solely responsible for Andrew’s depravity, I absolutely blame her for indulging him, protecting him and covering up his crimes. QEII and her courtiers used every tool at their disposal to ensure that mummy’s favorite never had to face consequences or even a check on his behavior. This is all because Andrew never actually broke the Windsor omerta, he didn’t break any of the rules which really matter to them. Which should be a larger conversation too: why weren’t Andrew’s crimes a bigger deal within the institution and within his family?
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100 percent dot
Right? I don’t even understand the question. Is an indulgent parent responsible for a child who has never worked, has no purpose in life, and doesn’t even know the word consequences? She didn’t make him a rapist, but it’s incredibly dangerous to have a human who thinks they have no responsibilities and no accountability.
The entire time Andrew was coming up, I doubt he ever once heard the word “No”.
I sense that being “Royal” is like an express train to a Palpable Sense of Entitlement. They think they are God’s anointed ones, inbreeding be damned. They aren’t set up to grow up to become kind, generous, self-aware people. That requires work, and the Windsors have eschewed therapy for generations.
They are a**holes.
My take is Andrew didn’t do the hard work of becoming a better person. Maybe Elizabeth tried some interventions with him or maybe she didn’t. Either way, he has been a grown-a** man for decades. He has had plenty of opportunity to internalize social norms. He has had plenty of money invest in becoming a productive member of society. He chose not to. Instead, he remains a predator.
F*** him.
You don’t have to be royalty to be a spoiled, entitled, narcissist, predatory mamas boy.
You’ll find them everywhere. Even in our own families.
BBC radio The Media Show covered how badly handled this crisis was by the Firm in 2019 and 2022 and now. They also stated that MoS have another BIG story coming out on this wretch on Sunday. How much more awfulness can be revealed? Big problem for the Firm is the spotlight turning on other senior royals who are also far from squeaky clean although I’m sure supine Starmer will continue to protect them!
I hadn’t heard Supine Starmer before but I like it.
Over the summer we had a lot of Kier Starver graffiti around Bristol that I enjoyed.
Yes.
If one considers QEII to be the institution and not only the mother, then yes, there is blame. The mother indulged him, but the institution covered up for him. Still, overindulgence doesn’t turn people into pedophiles – Andrew made his choices and is responsible for his own actions.
🎯True. Not every overly spoiled child turns into a pedophile. Andrew is the one responsible for his sins.
100%
That’s a good way to do it. She’s responsible as the head of the Firm and the Family, but in different aspects.
Not very spoiled child is a sexual predator but I think when you look at a lot of sexual assault cases (thinking especially of ones at colleges), I think you do see a theme of entitlement and arrogance, and that comes from the parents. Andrew thought it was his right to have sex with Virginia and the others – he was entitled to their bodies. Thats something very deep seated in him that may have always been there, but was also enabled by his mother.
The age-old question of “what is nature and what is nurture” almost always comes down to – its both. And I think that’s true here.
Who knows how he would have turned out if he was born the second son in a middle class family. But he wasnt.
I think it’s a bit facile to blame it all on her, but did she contribute in a significant fashion? Of course. And let’s not forget Philip could’ve stepped in and didn’t bit, of course, no one ever blames dads to any comparable degree…
Don’t you worry, when Charles die it will be ‘it was Charles all along 😆 it was all Pa’s mistake said William 🤣🤣🤣 when it comes to the Windsors it’s a never ending soap opera.
These are the same people who delight in recounting the love story of Elizabeth and Philip falling in love when she was 13. They thought that the problem with Peter Townsend was not that he (at the very least) tried to get much too close to Margaret when she was still underage, but that he was divorced. Charles spoke of Diana’s beauty when he met her in her mid-teens. Of course they didn’t see anything wrong with Andrew chasing very young girls. Maybe they were embarrassed that those girls were lowly “whores”, but inappropriate age differences had been normalized in the BRF.
Mountbatten wanted his granddaughter to marry Charles. She was not of age, but he wanted them to get to know each other and since she and Charles were related felt the public would not see her as a prospect and would not pay attention. His granddaughter Amanda came of age and Mountbatten wanted this match because He would be great grandfather of a future monarch. He passed on and Amanda when she got the proposal said no.
The conversation shouldn’t be “did his mother make him into a monster?” (dear god another way to blame a woman for a sh-t man’s sh-t behaviour and ps he also had a dad). The pertinent questions are whether and how much Elizabeth and the royal institution prevented justice. When did they first hear about Andrew’s crimes? Were further girls and women hurt after this? What have they done to prevent and delay any justice for the victims? While Andrew, Epstein, Maxwell and the other perps are all true monsters, it is also monstrous to knowingly not try to stop them.
The whole situation reminds me of my own grandmother and my cousin, where she had a massive blind spot regarding his behavior. He was a drug addict and committed crimes to feed his habit. The family kept telling her to not give him any cash for any reason, but he’d say “No Gram, I’m not doing drugs” when he was, in fact, doing ALL the drugs. She’d always accept his answer despite all of the evidence. QEII just could not see Andrew for what he was.
I mean, Lord Mountbatten. Jimmy Savile. The Windsors genuinely don’t seem to care about abusers.
Exactly. The family is full of pedos and loves to keep them as friends.
And this is the institution Harry and Meghan were vilified for walking away from. They said a couple of the quiet parts out loud, and suddenly they should be stripped of their titles (after the Family stripped them of everything else). But Andrew? They’ve known about his “games” for a long time, and they covered for him. They’d still be covering for him if Epstein hadn’t been busted.
There is no doubt in my mind that the late Queen would have to answer a lot of questions regarding Andrew if she was still alive but not only because of how Andrew turned out but also because how Andrew was protected against any investigations of his behaviour. BP suppressed a documentary by ABC about Andrew an his relationship with Epstein in 2015.
But do not let Charles and Willi of the hook here. Charles agreed with Andrew’s settlement with Virginia Giuffre paid by the late Queen in return for the Queen supporting Camilla being called Queen consort.
And Willi? He is full of hot air. His sycophants are talking about Willi stripping him officially of his titles but nothing about Willi supporting a meaningful discussion about Andrew in the British Parliament, a police investigation in regards to Andrew’s links with Epstein or an investigation about Andrew’s behaviour as British trade envoy.
Charles and Willi are afraid what could come to light about other members of the royal family and the damage this could do to the Monarchy if there was a proper investigation into Andrew and his dealings.
“..that the late Queen would have to answer a lot of questions regarding Andrew if she was still alive”
She WAS still alive when this came out. This ain’t some breaking news story.
Do you not agree that the late Queen should have answered questions about Andrew and her role? Unfortunately the late Queen is dead and cannot answer these questions anymore.
Yes, all this information about Andrew’s friendship with Epstein and his abuse of his connections as trade envoy was well known for years. The late Queen and BP have protected Andrew for years, ignoring any accusation against Andrew, suppressing coverage of Andrew’s doing such as the ABC documentary in 2015. The Queen and BP were not challenged either by the government or the BM about all of this. In contrary the BM protected the late Queen by not asking questions about the Queen’s and her office actions to protect Andrew or the lack of action to make Andrew accountable for his actions. Now we learn more and more about Andrew the mood is shifting, more and more people asking questions and demanding actions. I think that the late Queen will be used as a scapegoat by the royal family to whitewash Charles and Willi. As I said above the late Queen would have to answer questions in regards to Andrew and her role in protecting him if she was alive, but she is dead and cannot. But Charles and Willi played their role in the Andrew saga as well so I do not want them to get away with it.
Philip was the head of the household and was in charge of the boys’ education, wasn’t he?
We all know about Charles and Philip clashing, but what info is out there about Andrew and Philip’s relationship?
That is a very very good question — what was their relationship? We never ever hear about it — he clashed with Charles, Anne was his favorite, Edward was indulged (? don’t know much about that relationship either) however, we never hear about Philip and Andrew.
We know that Philip hated Fergie with a passion. I think he probably liked Andrew’s military service but probably thought he was too spoiled by his mother.
Yeah, I mean QEII isn’t off the hook here but Philip was equally responsible for Andrew’s existence on this earth and QEII had a job to distract her.
Royals are brought up to think they are more “special” than others and ardent monarchists excuse everything they do no matter how horrible. Charles treats Meghan and Harry and their children badly and is excused and the Sussexes are trashed. And the Queen could get away with hiding out Andrew from process servers and paying up the lawsuit for Andrew so there would be no court case during the Jubilee. Philip was around when Andrew was going to Epstein Island. Andrew was not “forced” to go to Epstein and Ghislaine residences where the trafficked girls resided–his mother did not tell him to do this either. The Queen may have been “warned” and did nothing. Way back when a courtier complained that Charles (who was single then brought Camilla (she was married then) as “escort” on a tour. She did not apparently react to the news, and did nothing. She could have told William to back off when he was trying to “order” Harry not to marry Meghan and the Queen already approved. Her staying at Balmoral after Diana died riled up the public so much she had to return. Did a courtier warn the Queen about Andrew. Probably. She chose to do nothing about it.
Andrew is not “uniquely loathsome” among the royals. They are all loathsome in their own ways. In fact, there is evidence of pedophilia in the larger institution. The institution itself is loathsome and Elizabeth was part of the problem. She did not raise her own children except from a distance. The values they were raised with are those of the British aristocracy which never valued women and children and doesn’t now. So it is hardly surprising that Andrew’s crimes against women and children were never taken seriously or even considered crimes. The monarchy itself is the root of the evil. As the longest reigning monarch in history, Elizabeth contributed more than her share, not just to Andrew’s depravity, but to all the depravity which we see in this loathsome family.
Let us not forget Charles’ friendship with Jimmy Saville and Peter Ball, both prolific peodphiles. Charles even gave Peter Ball money, after his accusations came out.
Yes, the late queen is responsible. She was a coward in her own right, often burying her head in the sand when leadership was needed.
She’s also responsible for Chuckles being such an abominable father. If she had shown that son a fraction of the love he so desperately needed in childhood he could have turned out to be a decent human being.
Instead, you have a tone deaf hypocritical, pompous, snowflake who cares only about his own emotions and how things affect him. He raised one awful son while gaslighting and abusing his younger son. The entire UK lost the benefit of having H&M remain.
What a complete waste of several human lives. And yes, it rests in Betty’s lap.
Chuck is responsible for his being a bad father and grandfather. His mother is no longer with us and his treatment of harry and Meghan if anything got worse. The queen if anything indulged Charles and turned a blind eye to Charles cheating
Charles grandmother put Charles on a pedestal and made him even more self centered. But ultimately Charles broke his own family and let the heir drive out the sussexes
The queen turned a blind eye to the behavior of her children. Did she notice how difficult and bratty scooter behaved and she gave into his not doing his share of the work.
“Yet how did we get here? Even by the blackest standards of the monarchy’s black history, while trotting out on the black meadows of royal blackness, do black sheep come any blacker than Andrew?”
Well, yes, I presume. Meghan.
Man, they really don’t like black in the UK, do they?
They tell on themselves in ways they don’t even realize.
Yes. Oh how they tell on themselves.
Eeeeyeah, that sentence made me cringe. The US is hardly a bastion of racial awareness but a mainstream newspaper editor here would flag that as problematic. I’ve read way too many silly royal reporter books and the way they casually drop racially ignorant if not outright bigoted statements is shocking, mostly bc they’re wholly unaware of how they come across.
We know Jan’s connotation for the word “black”. She’s reveling in using it. As for the Queen and family tolerance for Andrew..it’s obvious they don’t think there are sexual crimes.
Andrew’s behavior and “crimes” aren’t taken seriously by the family or the institution because Andrew is not an outlier or anomaly, he behaves exactly the same as the rest of them, he was just got caught. Let’s not forget Charles’ friendships with Jimmie Saville and the priest, Ball I think was the last name, both prolific pedophiles and yet Charles was too stupid to realize it with Saville and thought Ball was innocent, even gave him some cash to help him out.
Did he really think they were innocent though? I don’t.
The financial setup contributes as well when only the monarch and heir can dole out money, and always with strings attached as a method of control. It leaves grown adults vulnerable to using their titles and access as currency to get handouts from other sources. Harry found his way to escape that system, so infuriating to the royals who can’t control him.
I’ve always said that the Royal Family never believed that Andrew did anything wrong. Plus just on anecdotal evidence, all of the Queen’s children seem to be terrible people. She’s not totally to blame for Andrew’s behaviour but she is responsible for the institution’s protection of him. What the British press should be asking is why the Palace never sought to protect Harry and later Meghan in the same way they did Andrew?
In a word…. YES
Elizabeth is responsible for paying off the reported millions for Virginia’s civil suit. If the Queen really believed in her son’s innocence she should have refused to pay it and insisted he go to the US and clear his name.
Yes, this is the tangible way in which QEII is responsible — she bailed him out.
She also probably is responsible for a lot of his entitlement, too, but then so is the whole royal institution. Including his father.
As he ages he resembles Lord Porchester even though the dates make it unlikely.
“They may have their faults, but neither his two brothers nor his sister come anywhere close to Prince Andrew on the royal ghastly-o-meter.” PLeaze! The King’s ex-wife died under mysterious circumstances (and she predicted how she would die). The King also hung out and protected Savile, but the press protected him on that front.
Charles was observed being abusive to his first wife. He scolded her for fainting. He gave a speech in Canada in 1983 saying he needed 2 wives while Diana look ed uncomfortable.
They others have just been protected by the press
I’ve always believed Andrew is the illegitimate child of her lover (look at pics of the two men–sorry, I forgot his name). I believe this is why Andrew is her favorite and why she spoiled him so much and overlooked and covered up his despicable crimes. But this does NOT take away any responsibility from Andrew, who fully and willingly committed crimes against children in all his depravity.
There are still some avid believers who think that Philip is not his biological father. Is the name you’re thinking of her racing manager, Lord Porchester?
I disagree with the word “spoilt”. This man may have grown up in affluence and probably in a very contradictory environment, but I can only agree with the word “spoilt” if it means that he did not receive what was necessary for the healthy development of his personality. Who in this family received an education that promoted development, and what about his father? Incidentally, I consider him to be someone whose arrogance is inherent in the system. This patriarchal structure produces men whose personalities are based exclusively on power, money and sex. Unless they find a life partner like Prince Harry and, like him, are prepared to embark on a painful and lengthy process of development. Incidentally, Charles had a classical therapist for many years, but still did not help his sons or provide them with therapeutic support.
Andrew is responsible for how Andrew turned out. Period. She reared other sons and a daughter who managed to not traffic teenagers, or be BFFs with a human trafficking loan shark pimp, or stay in a decades-long relationship with a woman who will stoop to any level with any morally bankrupt person to maintain a luxurious lifestyle. The other siblings have their issues, but Andrew (and Fergie, who chose to independently suck up to Epstein on every single level) is his own sort of evil.
Let’s normalize not blaming women for men’s crimes.
“ Let’s normalize not blaming women for men’s crimes.”
That is not a phrase that even remotely relates to this situation, she was the monarch not just a regular woman and she absolutely enabled and covered up for him.
“Wow, Andrew’s a monster. Is there a nearby woman we could blame?”
This kind of twisted logic trying to say the Queen isn’t responsible for him is like saying Margaret Thatcher advanced feminism because she was a woman.
Queen Elizabeth was probably the world’s most powerful woman and she consistently protected Andrew and even gave extra money to bail him out. She ignored the recommendations of the courtiers to investigate him.
This woman was allowed to interfere with Parliamentary processes. She was not your average woman and mother.
I’m with the camp that says, “Stop blaming women for men’s behavior.”
Is it also her fault now that the government refuses to hold Andrew accountable?