In August, we learned that the Prince and Princess of Wales planned to move into yet another “forever home,” Forest Lodge. They were giving up Adelaide Cottage because it felt “cursed,” and because it wasn’t grand enough for Kate. Forest Lodge is a large, eight-bedroom manor house. Upgrades and renovations began over the summer. The Wales family moved into the home in late October. Alongside the proclamations that this would be their “forever home,” we also learned that Will and Kate evicted a bunch of people close to Forest Lodge, and they were grabbing 150 acres of public park land, shutting down one of the entrances to Windsor Great Park, and causing chaotic detours for the local Christmas-tree farm. Locals are justifiably furious. This whole time, I’ve wondered if this Forest Lodge move was something half-assed and thrown together last-minute to placate Kate. Well… it looks like it was NOT half-assed, at least from a financial aspect. There’s a new inquiry into the Crown Estates, and a parliamentary committee got their hands on the Waleses’ lease paperwork.
A key detail about Kate Middleton and Prince William’s new lease at Forest Lodge has been revealed. On Dec. 2, the Public Accounts Committee (PAC) of the House of Commons published new details about the former Prince Andrew’s lease at Royal Lodge, his longtime home in Windsor that he has agreed to move out of after King Charles stripped his princely title in October.
Among the documents was a briefing prepared for PAC about The Crown Estate’s current administration of leases on residences occupied by members of the royal family, which included new information about the Prince and Princess of Wales’ lease of Forest Lodge on the Windsor Estate. It’s thought that the family plans to continue living there even after William becomes king one day, and the new briefing revealed that William and Kate have a 20-year lease of Forest Lodge.
“Their Royal Highnesses The Prince and Princess of Wales hold a 20-year non-assignable lease with The Crown Estate for Forest Lodge, commencing 5 July 2025,” it states.
“Previously a ‘grace and favour’ residence, it was returned to The Crown Estate by HM Queen Elizabeth II in the early 1990s and has since been let on the open market,” it continues.
“Following an approach from HRH The Prince of Wales and discussions with the Royal Household, the Commissioners were asked to consider entering into a lease of the Property to TRH The Prince and Princess of Wales for use as their primary private residence,” it says.
From there, the Crown Estate made arrangements to negotiate terms, conduct due diligence, seek independent valuation advice and ensure all standards were met before entering contracts
“Negotiations were conducted on an arm’s length basis, to ensure appropriate market terms were agreed. Two independent valuers (Hamptons and Savills) were appointed by The Crown Estate to provide valuations of the Property and to review the final Heads of Terms,” it said.
The briefing detailed that both the Prince and Princess of Wales and the Crown Estate received independent legal advice as things became finalized, and that the lease for Forest Lodge was established at “open market rent.”
So, the committee has revealed the big surprise, which is that both sides did their due diligence as they negotiated a 20-year lease on Forest Lodge. What’s crazy is that while “independent valuers” were brought in to assess Forest Lodge and provide comparison figures for market rates on similar homes, it doesn’t sound like the 150-acre land grab was included in the assessment, right? Once William and Kate secured the lease, they behaved in the typically arrogant royal way, ordering evictions of lease-holders close to the lodge, grabbing parkland for their uninterrupted view, and adding a huge amount of security upgrades to the now massive estate. It’s one thing to say “this home would have cost $20 million on the open market,” but it’s quite another to run roughshod over the public’s access to a park, not to mention adding 150 acres of parkland to the property for “security.”
Incidentally, people are using the 20-year lease as a gotcha for the Waleses, as in “see, it’s not their forever home, they only plan to stay there for twenty years!” Yeah, that part doesn’t bother me. It’s not a gotcha. I will be shocked if they stay there for twenty years though.
Photos courtesy of Avalon Red, Cover Images.
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- The Princess of Wales during a visit to the RHS’s Wellbeing Garden at Colchester Hospital in Essex. The visit coincides with the donation of 50 Catherine’s Rose plants, named after the princess by the RHS with funds from sales going to the Royal Marsden Cancer Charity. Picture date: Wednesday July 2, 2025.,Image: 1017655843, License: Rights-managed, Restrictions: *** NO UK USE FOR 48 HRS ***, Model Release: no, Credit line: Stefan Rousseau/Avalon
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- The Princess of Wales planting a rose during a visit to the RHS’s Wellbeing Garden at Colchester Hospital in Essex. The visit coincides with the donation of 50 Catherine’s Rose plants, named after the princess by the RHS with funds from sales going to the Royal Marsden Cancer Charity. Picture date: Wednesday July 2, 2025. PA Photo.,Image: 1017656800, License: Rights-managed, Restrictions: *** NO UK USE FOR 48 HRS ***, Model Release: no, Credit line: Stefan Rousseau/Avalon
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- The Princess of Wales during a visit to the RHS’s Wellbeing Garden at Colchester Hospital in Essex. The visit coincides with the donation of 50 Catherine’s Rose plants, named after the princess by the RHS with funds from sales going to the Royal Marsden Cancer Charity. Picture date: Wednesday July 2, 2025. PA Photo.,Image: 1017656825, License: Rights-managed, Restrictions: *** NO UK USE FOR 48 HRS ***, Model Release: no, Credit line: Stefan Rousseau/Avalon
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- London, UK. 87th July, 2025. Catherine, the Princess of Wales and William, the Prince Of Wales. The King and, Queen, Prince and Princess of Wales and the French President and his wife, Mr and Mrs Macron, as well as the French Ambassador and others, take a carriage procession through Windsor and along part of the Long Walk leading to Windsor Castle as part of the French State Visit.,Image: 1019688083, License: Rights-managed, Restrictions: , Model Release: no, Credit line: Imageplotter/Avalon
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- William, Prince of Wales and Catherine – Princess of Wales visit Natural History Museum, London, England, UK on Thursday 4 September, 2025 to view the Museum’s newly transformed gardens and meet children and young people taking part in learning programmes which see them connecting with nature and boosting biodiversity in urban areas.,Image: 1034075638, License: Rights-managed, Restrictions: Please credit photographer and agency when publishing as Justin Ng/UPPA/Avalon., Model Release: no, Credit line: Justin Ng/Avalon
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- Britain’s Kate and Prince William are welcomed by members as they visit the National Federation of Women’s Institute (WI) to commemorate the three-year anniversary of the death of Queen Elizabeth II in Sunningdale, England, Monday, Sept. 8, 2025.,Image: 1035282856, License: Rights-managed, Restrictions: *** NO UK USE FOR 48 HRS ***, Model Release: no, Credit line: Alastair Grant/Avalon
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- London, UK, 16th Sep 2025. Prince William and Princess Catherine. HRH King Charles III, The Prince and Princess of Wales Prince William and Princess Catherine, and other senior members of the Royal Family. The coffin is carried to the hearse. Mourners, including members of the Royal Family, are seen paying their respects as the coffin is carried out and into the hears, then departing from Westminster Cathedral after the a requiem mass, a Catholic funeral service held for the Duchess of Kent, who passed away on 4 Sep.,Image: 1037872299, License: Rights-managed, Restrictions: , Model Release: no, Credit line: Imageplotter/Avalon
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- King Charles III leads senior members of The Royal Family during Trooping the Colour 2025 Featuring: Catherine Princess of Wales Where: London, United Kingdom When: 17 Jun 2025 Credit: John Rainford/Cover Images **NOT AVAILABLE FOR PUBLICATION IN THE UK**
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- The Prince and Princess of Wales during a visit to the National Federation of Women’s Institute (WI) in Sunningdale, Berkshire, to mark the third anniversary Queen Elizabeth II’s death Featuring: Catherine, Princess of Wales, William, Prince of Wales Where: Sunningdale, United Kingdom When: 08 Sep 2025 Credit: Alastair Grant/PA Images/INSTARimages **NORTH AMERICA RIGHTS ONLY**
Sure they signed a lease but the royals are always very good about getting around things. Is this just a ruse to let the taxpayers not be so pissed by saying they are paying market rate? I wouldn’t put it past them.
I was thinking about this, do they just announce ‘yes, we pay’ and by pay they mean ‘we grace you with our presence’? I mean, who is going to file eviction on them, the king? He’s got a history of that, of course, but this is Prince WillTantrumForAnyReason
If it’s “grace you with their presence”then they need to get out there all day every day and nights too to pay for it.
Until they tell us what the market rate is, I won’t believe a dang thing. Real estate records should be public, and while this has the pretense of openness it really isn’t. How much are they really paying? And did all of this ‘due diligence’ include the amount it cost to compensate the then-current occupant & nearest neighbors? It clearly didn’t include that extra 150 acres so they’re not paying ‘market rate’ for that. What’s 150 acres in Windsor Great Park worth? I bet a lot.
It doesn’t matter what the “market rate” is as long as they allow related parties (royals) to circumvent any and all predetermined lease arrangements that would have been in effect for unrelated parties. The notion that a “market rate” can even be reliably determined for any of the “Crown” type properties is pure fiction as long as there’s information asymmetry perpetuated by and for the majority stakeholders (royals) against any other minority interest they may transact with. IMHO there’s no such thing as an “arm’s length” transaction with private parties that involves Crown RE, and probably also Cornwall and Lancaster duchies’ RE given the balance of power and lack of transparency.
And what about their other Crown properties, past and present, I wonder ..?
I won’t comment on the news that MPs will be looking into the Crown Estate Royal homes, because I’m sure there will be a separate thread about that but this about the Waleses caught my eye:
1) Non-dismissable lease: does this mean they can’t kick Kate out of her divorce home, if that’s what it is, until 20 years? Part of any recently re-negotiated marriage contract? I guess after that, presumably Kate and her parents wouldn’t be kicked out and it will be George’s problem to fund them something out of his Duchy of Cornwall
2) Market rent as the DM reported could mean anything from under 30,000 to over 100,000 per month. First, that’s still peanuts for William out of his Duchy funds. Second, we know now that the Royal Family/Crown Estate lied about Andrew and Edward paying “market rate” so unless there is a lease published, I’m taking that with a grain of salt
it says “non assignable” which I think makes it less valuable than Andrew’s lease. Andrew can leave his lease to his daughters in his will (which is why he’s clinging to it so hard.) This is unassignable so I dont think it can be left to anyone or changed from W&K to someone else.
what would be interesting is the names on the lease. If its leased to the Prince of Wales, and George becomes that in 5 years, then I wonder if the lease goes to him. No idea how that works legally.
And i agree 100% re the market rate. Even 100k a month seems low but I am not a Berkshire real estate expert.
thanks @Becks1 for the correction, I didn’t read it properly…and good point about what name is on the lease and whether it’s a title or for an individual!
It is interesting to add that term when in 20 years it is likely that William will be monarch and thus the crown. So I wonder if his name is even on the lease. Maybe it is a restriction for Kate alone. Because William will eventually be in control of everything so it seems odd to add this restriction to a lease with a future king. This would make more sense for someone who isn’t in direct line to the crown.
No, non assignable means that they can’t sell the lease to someone else if they don’t stay 20 years. They need the permission from the landlord for this (in this case the Crown Estate).
But once William is king, the crown estate will not cross his wishes. So it seems a bit pointless.
But does it say what that market rate is? as far as I’m concerned a statement saying that “open market rate” was agreed to doesn’t mean a whole lot. But maybe its somewhere in there and I’m missing it. And are they paying market rate for the surrounding cottages whose tenants were evicted?
And I am sure that the 150 acres was not factored into that market rate (neat trick there for the Wales) and the security upgrades etc were all paid for by the taxpayer, and I wouldn’t be surprised if the Crown Estates is covering a lot of the renovations to the house as “structural.”
basically – this family is a bunch of grifters and W&K are no different.
Yeah, it doesn’t say the market rate rent which…I bet it’s barely more than what they were charging the sussexes for FC rent. Basically all we know is that it’s more than a peppercorn. And then adding the land on after the lease was set? Sketchy and sneaky…so on brand for the Wales. I swear in on one of the original articles about FL, I think by Becky English, but don’t quote me on this, it was said that the Wales were paying around 14,000 a month for FL. I’m almost positive I read that somehwhere. How true it was idk.
I think in their minds “market rent” means more than a peppercorn.
Does it mean actual commercial rent or just two peppercorns and some empathy?
100% that security perimeter is not included in the assessment for market rate. The taxpayers have spent a lot of money for these two and their privacy when there are many other places already secured that could meet their needs.
And then their is our early years expert taking the, learning about nature centre, away from the local children. Talk about hypocrisy, it was her justification for doing little else.
1) how much do they pay on their other three main recidences?
2)I dont believe its market value untill I see an actual number
They don’t pay for Anmer because it is privately owned and KP was given to them as well. They never mentioned rent on Adelaide Cottage so I bet there was no rent paid there.
That’s what I’m wondering. So Anmer is part of Sandringham so no rent there, okay fine.
But KP1A was given to them? That’s not privately owned by the monarch but is it part of the CE or some other entity? So that huge apartment in the middle of London is just sitting empty with no income derived from it?
And rent for Adelaide was never discussed or mentioned which is interesting.
If they are so confident then tell us the amount. And does it rise over the next 20 years? Because if not that would be an extraordinary bargain. We have been told with every single one of these leases th they were paying market rent and we were told when the queen was forced to make the Kents etc pay rent it was market rent and it turned out to be extraordinarily low. They take into consideration things like, oh well not all people will be allowed to rent if a royal is living there so it should be lowered, etc.
If the ” market” rate they are supposedly paying rises with the market is something that stuck out to me as well. Let’s say they’re paying $75,000 a year for it now. Are they going to pay $75,000 a year for that until 2045, or does it increase as the market around Forest Lodge also increases in pricing? And if they do intend to raise it, will they send in independent assessors again each year to determine that, or will they determine what’s a fair increase?
So interesting how easily people believe that they are getting transparency, when they really aren’t. They’re providing you with information that raises more questions than answers and they want people to behave like they’re being so forthcoming.
Right. So be transparent with the specific amount. If they can’t show evidence of an actual number then it’s bc it’s sketchy.
Why just a 20 year leave when Prince Edward got a 150 year lease? Is this Kate’s forever home guaranteed for the next 20 years?
Maybe that’s Carole’s life expectancy? And then George can take over taking care of Kate.
Yes why make it a 20 year lease when they told us that this was going to be their “forever home” even when he ascends the throne? We know that they do leases that last a ridiculous amount of time, so why low ball it at 20 years?
it’s all ridiculous – all their money comes from the state or properties/income that in theory should belong to the state but was siphoned off many years ago for the royal family. they do not have jobs and if they have investments or make income, it’s all based on funds that came from the state decade ago and was just decided to be royal only etc. that’s why them paying a lease at all feels like a farce. the king can just give them the land or take it away. they may as well just get the property for free OR (better) be forced to have actual jobs to make money
💯 this! They just take money from one pocket to the other. It’s still in their favour to keep the conversation focused on the rent issue and Andrew’s shady stuff rather then their sources of income or any follow up on their off-shore money that was uncovered a few years ago. Did QE2 declare that off-shore stuff to the UK tax office? Did KC inherit it? Where did Philip’s millions come from? But of course that’s all top secret classified because ….?
This is it. The amount of rent being paid doesn’t matter in a way because where do they get that money. Neither William or Kate ever had a job that brings in money externally.
Duchy funds are essentially taxpayer funds funneled into a medieval set up where they pretend that William inherited a regular private estate instead of one protect by all sorts of exemptions and tax shelters.
i can see Ed and Sophie moving to Frogmore vacating Bigshot Park for King Billy and Kate seeing the 20 year lease out at Forrest Lodge!
William read the UK room. He could not ask for a sweetheart lease like Liz gave Andy.
Not all is revealed, of course, and there are many valuable freebies attached, but this seems like progress to me.
When Charles passes away they will move to Windsor Castle. All these properties should be sold or owned outright by the State.
I’m sure that “market rent” is based on the pre-renovation value without the uninterrupted view and the extra 150 acres, not to mention no neighbors.
I’d love to know what they are paying versus what it’s worth on the open market with all their upgrades.
They don’t deserve any extra credit for this. They are still living on the public dime and off of centuries of plundered wealth.
Who is supposed to believe that? Trust is gone. Too much has happened, and the whole world has seen it. It is the taxpayers who will foot the bill. How ridiculous it all is.
Kate’s face in the second picture is shocking. One doesn’t often see her resting face. It is like one of Sophie’s resting faces, where all hope is gone and there is only resentment and bitterness left. Well, that’s Sophie. Kate looks bad. She should have raced out the minute they cracked the door open.
As soon as I heard that there is talks about releasing information about rental payment agreements I rolled my eyes because we were already told previously about Andrew and turns out that it was a lie, so who’s to say they won’t continue lying or fudging numbers. Them including FL only tells me that they are going to give us what we want to hear and not necessarily what is factual about FL. They aren’t even including the 250 additional acreage or the additional cottages that they evicted people from to accommodate their staff. So none of this is going to be accurate. Sophie and Edward are also staying in a huge estate where there needs to be transparency about how much they pay when they fail to work as much as the Wales fail to work.