Well it happened. After years of playing nice with her ex husband and refusing to speak poorly about him to the press, Denise Richards finally pushed back a little. TMZ reports that Denise has blocked Charlie’s access to their daughters for Christmas, and that Charlie has vowed to cut Denise’s child support, currently at $55,000 a month, as a result. We don’t know what’s going on behind the scenes, but given Charlie’s reaction, it’s safe to assume he’s off the rails again. (Or he never really got back on them.)
Apparently Denise decided that Charlie wasn’t invited to go on vacation with her and her daughters for Christmas. At least that’s what Charlie thinks happened. Denise told TMZ that Charlie is still invited. My guess is that Charlie’s “girlfriend” isn’t welcome, however. Charlie is “dating” yet another porn star, a 24 year-old named Brett Rossi. Charlie took Brett on vacation two weeks ago, and since the other shoe hasn’t dropped after two weeks he’s telling everyone that Brett is the love of his life. I bet that Denise told Charlie he could come as long as he didn’t bring Brett, but that’s just a hunch. Denise has seen plenty of porn stars, sometimes handfuls at a time, come and go in Charlie’s life and she probably doesn’t want her children exposed to that.
Charlie is of course taking it incredibly poorly. He posted a twitpic of a cut up wedding favor, an engraved bat from his 2002 nuptials to Denise, along with a knife and some kind of anger poem against Denise.
more like a feeble “K”.
the lie is over.
i’m done
being treated like
a relative with a
one-way ticket.
c
#DuhNeese
Can someone tell me what that little Tabasco bottle is doing there? Does that have some meaning to Charlie? (Update: I needed Megan at D-Listed to explain that it’s a meat bat. I can’t believe I didn’t see that. I would eat it.)
TMZ’s follow-up story says that Charlie will petition the court to have his child support to Denise decreased. Charlie claims that his child support to Denise is a private arrangement and was never court-ordered, although it’s likely that it was set by a judge and that Charlie just doesn’t remember. If Denise doesn’t get in line I bet Charlie will try to sell the home he bought her, just like he did with Brooke. (Not that Brooke should have kept the home by any means.) The home is specifically mentioned in that story, along with the line that Denise is “epically ungrateful.”
Denise has consistently been gracious to Charlie, even going so far as to temporarily take in his twin boys with his last ex wife. So if Denise has decided that Charlie needs some time off from their daughters, she likely has a very good reason for it. No judge is going to rule in Charlie’s favor. I hope they take a look at his child support and increase it. He probably spends 5 times more on hookers and blow in a month than he pays for his kids.
Speaking of hookers and blow, there’s yet another angle to this story. Radar claims that Charlie’s latest piece, Brett, is the one behind his rants at Denise. Brett is supposedly insanely jealous of Denise and is demanding that Charlie cut off contact with her. I bet she’s angling to marry him and get some monthly checks of her own. The guy deserves everything that’s about to come his way, and he’ll be kissing Denise’s ass again before long.
These are photos of Denise out shopping with her girls on 12-5, of Charlie on vacation with his “girlfriend” Brett on 11-30, and of Denise, Charlie and their daughters catching a flight on 11-16. Credit: FameFlynet
This man is insanely vile.
Such a nasty scabby looking druggie
He’s so gross! You nailed it QQ.
That being said I want Denise’s boots. Does anyone know who makes them? Those boots are so epically insane that I could barely read this story. All I could think about is BOOTS!
Poor Denise. Hasn’t she been through enough with this nut job?
+ one million
Sorry Celebitchy, you have got full stop in the wrong place and missed a word in the title of this post. It should read:
Charlie Sheen is mad. Denise Richards vows to cut man-child support: vindictive?
My answer to that is no!
🙂
He’s such a POS.
She took his boys in, at a risk to her own children, and never asked for more money-he doesn’t deserve children given how little he does for them.
Money doesn’t make a father.
Those kids (all of them) deserve better, at least his girls have a good chance at normalcy with their mom, and no thanks to him.
This Bitch is always complaining about cutting off child support like it’s going to hurt Denise and not his daughters. He thinks paying her is the only thing he has to do as a father. Denise should get her lawyer up in his mug and say STFU.
He’s a known and documented domestic abuser AND alcoholic/ drug abuser — so this comes as no surprise.
ETA: Tobasco adds fire to cuts and wounds. The whole pic is ‘warning’ her what he’s capable of… It’s part of the psychological warfare a domestic abuser engages in.
No, the tabasco goes with the salami-bat.
Not arguing that but cutting up ‘them’ plus including hot sauce is still a clear warning. As is leaving the knife. Classic psychological warfare (it’s so classic its textbook).
Shame on the entire Health & Human Services department for missing the fact he is blatantly warning his ex-wife of the violence he will do if she continues to oppose him. He has shown NUMEROUS times that people are not safe around him. And yet, they do virtually nothing to protect his former wives or protect his children. Shameful.
I couldn’t stop thinking that bat looked like salami! I wonder if it’s been curing this whole time?
@LadySlippers, I don’t think they are missing it. A lot of people went bananas when Charlie was trying to say that they were “on the take”, giving custody to Brooke. Some people were all, “Poor Charlie”. But they know exactly who he is.
Kiddo, I grew up in the system. They do miss a lot. And abusers are super charming which doesn’t help. Personally, if they know, it’s even worse. So my ‘shame on them’ stands.
@LadySlippers, I think he has a lot of money, power, fans, etc. I think they know who he is, but then he gets the propaganda machine running over at TMZ, and they fear the fall-out. Of course, it’s not right, but it is what it is.
Also, I am sorry for your personal experience, but on the upside, you do seem stronger and more aware for your pain.
As I’m not in the case, it could honestly be seen both ways. So I get your point. It still sucks for all his former partners and his children. It’s not right and we need to stop allowing men (and a few women) to terrorise others with impunity.
And thanks. I had a very rough childhood (so bad almost everyone who hears it suggests I write my story). Plus, falling for what I thought was a ‘great guy’ who ended up being anything but. I’ve always used ME as a way to teach others. I do hope that my horrible experiences weren’t for nothing and can help someone, somewhere.
Ladyslippers is so right. The symbolism in that photo IS the textbook (“threat? what threat? It’s just my lunch!”) warning from a domestic abuser.
@ LadySlippers and @ paranormalgirl: That’s what makes it so frightening when you see a victim with their abuser. The victim is seemingly afraid of (what outsiders would perceive) as the most innocuous action(s) taken by the abuser. We don’t understand or see the threat that they are displaying to the victim with their actions. The abuser indoctrinates fear into every move they make to maintain control over the domestic violence victim.
@ Ladyslippers: Thanks for calling him out as a domestic abuser. He is indeed textbook. Denise’s pushing back came with a consequence from Charlie. Abuse survivors are always (unfortunately) met with a consequence from their abuser whenever they push back.
Amen. Amen.
I think Charlie Sheen is scarily past the textbook phase. This guy has extreme publicity – he’s textbook plus further insanity than most people can dream of, with the money and access to carry out any threat he wants.
gg,
Trust me when I say he’s textbook. The ONLY difference is you are glimpsing only a teeny tiny fraction of what his wives/ ex-wives / partners/ children see routinely. If you think this is scary, try living with an abuser. Often this is a daily or weekly occurrence. Depending on how short the cycle has become.
I am well aware, as I have been through it too. Terrorized by an abusive ex. I understand.
And that’s not a regular knife. That’s a dagger! Absolutely creeps me out. The man is terrifying.
Severed salami. I wonder of he appreciated the double entendre ?
Great comments LadySlippers!
I was on Charlie’s side in the Brooke feud but for him to turn so fast on Denise is crazy. But he IS crazy so I guess it makes sense – but geesh. why???
And I don’t see how/why the judge wouldn’t give Denise the same amount of support she is currently getting – or more, as the judge gave Brooke a similar amount (I’m assuming that was the court’s decision??)
@LadySlippers. Squirrel loves you my dear!
{{hugs}}
I wasted 4 years of my life with an abuser/drinker. Nothing compared to other people’s stories I have heard, but the damage was done regardless.
I think I’m starting to understand why this site is so popular. A great place to come and vent from all the undeserving wrong-doers out there…
This is more than a disturbing photo; it’s a freakin’ death threat. I mean, ChuckShit basically sent Denise a photo of a noose. The prosecutor should bring Charlie Sheen up on charges.
He is such a despicable human being..
He doesn’t deserve children, and I don’t say that lightly.
You’ve summed it up perfectly.
What else is there to say?
This is pathetically sad… If he takes this to court, his rear will be handed to him on a silver platter.
No one is “behind” Charlie’s rants, they are, front and center, all Charlie. I always figured that Denise had an under the table settlement, and/or fear of Charlie, that was driving her bus. There is something seriously wrong with him and Child Protective Services knows full well.
Exactly. This is completely in line with his typical, erratic, and volatile behavior. This man is a psychological terrorist-manipulative and pathological.
There are not many celebs that I truly despise but he is definitely one of them.
I can’t say I despise him, but he has proven time and again that he is a Dr Jekyll and Mr Hyde.
Why not? What’s to like about him? Dude has no redeeming qualities. ZERO.
He has 150 Hyde moments for every one Jekyll moment. That’s called LOSING, not “winning” at life.
@TheOriginalKitten..I don’t know why, but that made me snort and guffaw. You are very funny.
Kitten, I don’t despise either my father or my ex-husband. Why? It’s a terrible waste of good emotion. I’d rather expend myself on something good than something bad.
Love not hate is my philosophy. And bring to justice those that deserve it and once justice has been had, they deserve no more of my time or energy.
Although, I get it. I avoid a lot of stuff that Alec, Sean, and Charlie (and other abusers as well) do as I don’t want my valuable dollars making those awful men any richer.
Kind of random @ladyslippers, but I always like your posts about these issues and I really identify with what you said about hating.
I wish I could learn not to hate. I hate my abuser to this day and I haven’t even seen him or had any type of contact with him in almost 16 years. Yet the rage consumes me frequently when I have flashbacks, which don’t ever seem to go away. Do you have any suggestions? (sorry to threadjack)
Yup.
I think Charlie Sheen’s brain is permanently fried from his constant drug use. He cannot seem to rationalize anything anymore.
I don’t know what Charlie was like earlier in his life — maybe he was always this psycho, but he reminds me of a relative of mine who has major substance abuse problems. He has been an alcoholic/drug abuser for so many years and has abused his body to such an extreme that it has completely altered his personality. I know the altered state is normal while you are drunk or high, but even when he’s not abusing, he is still a total different person and it’s so sad bc that’s just who he is now. Just wondering if Charlie’s crazy is a result of all his ‘fun times’.
“Yet the rage consumes me frequently when I have flashbacks, which don’t ever seem to go away. Do you have any suggestions?” – anon33.
May I suggest putting in your earbuds, turning on your MP3 player, and at bedtime listening to hypnotic trances, gentle body relaxation techniques, and/or meditations? To copy your trances and meditations onto a MP3 player, I’d bring them to a local Best Buy, purchase your Sansa Clip MP3, and ask a Techie to copy your materials to it, OR ask a tech savvy friend to help you copy your trance/meditations to your MP3 player.
SanDisk Sansa Clip+ 4 GB MP3 Player – http://www.amazon.com/SanDisk-Sansa-Clip-Player-Indigo/dp/B00400TGEC%3FSubscriptionId%3DAKIAILSHYYTFIVPWUY6Q%26tag%3Dduckduckgo-d-20%26linkCode%3Dxm2%26camp%3D2025%26creative%3D165953%26creativeASIN%3DB00400TGEC
I wholeheartedly recommend at bedtime listening to the following for a deep relaxation and a sensation of bliss (I’m not kidding):
Paul Mckenna Hypnotic Trance ‘Confidence’ – https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gSaqaMrOn44
Paul McKenna PhD Free Trance – http://store.paulmckenna.com/free-download.aspx
I Can Make You Sleep DVD by Paul McKenna – http://www.amazon.com/I-Can-Make-You-Sleep/dp/140278452X/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1387417121&sr=8-1&keywords=paul+mckenna+sleep
For the meditations, I often don’t do the gentle stretching floor yoga and simply listen to their meditations instead at bedtime. The yoga practices here are very gentle, easy, stretching, and anyone able bodied will feel refreshed and at peace afterwards.
Meditation for Beginners Maritza – http://www.amazon.com/Meditation-Beginners-Maritza/dp/B00006HAX2/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1387418573&sr=8-1&keywords=maritza+meditation
Pure Tranquility Rainbeau Mars – http://www.amazon.com/Sacred-Yoga-Practice-Rainbeau-Mars/dp/B00008DDVL/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1387418747&sr=8-1&keywords=Rainbow+Mars+pure+tranquility
This last book changed my life and my marriage and helped everyone I gave it to. “How to Be an Adult in Relationships: The Five Keys to Mindful Loving” by David Richo – http://www.amazon.com/How-Be-Adult-Relationships-Mindful/dp/1570628122/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1387418437&sr=1-1&keywords=how+to+be+an+adult+in+relationships
Good luck, and I’d like to know how it works out for you!
late @SloaneWyatt, but THANK YOU. I can’t sleep either…of course
LadySlippers – I don’t waste my energy on hating my former abuser either, but I still have panic attacks when I see someone who looks like him or a truck like he drove. Even after 20+ years and counseling, that kind of fear lingers.
One of my main abusers when I was a child, a uncle by marriage, recently died. But his brother who is a good guy sounds Exactly like him, it always fills me with dread when i hear him. I’m 44 now so that reaction is never going to go away I’m sure. That kind of fear never goes away
Uh, this guy is seriously mentally unstable if that cut up baseball bat isn’t proof enough, along with all the years of drug and alcohol abuse as well as violence he has consistently displayed time and time again. Yet, Charlie Sheen continues to get tv deals, film roles, what have you and why no one – not even his family – is stepping in to say “enough is enough” is beyond me. Because seriously. It’s freaking enough already.
It IS enough.
His parents have intervened before. He famously showed up at their home with a gun. I don’t know if they’re just too old at this point, or even just worn down. I’ve always thought there was a reason Martin Sheen and his wife didn’t publicly weigh in on the twins. Who knows, maybe even they are fearful of him at this point. To my knowledge, they’ve always stood behind Denise.
OMG are you serious with the gun thing? I’m only 20 years old and have not been familiar with Charlie Sheen’s antics that long but if what you’re saying is true, then this dude seriously needs to be locked away. He is clearly a danger to society. Martin Sheen might be too old but Charlie has brothers (woo The Breakfast Club!), so why can’t they step in and put their foot down? I do think it’s wonderful that his parents are on Denise’s side because she has been a pillar of strength throughout this whole ordeal and even BEYOND that. She deserves all the support she can get.
And there was the Kelly P. shooting incident years ago. Oh, that was an “accident”, though.
Good grief, I just Googled that incident to refresh my memory and discovered that Kelly backed up Charlie’s story (taking blame off him) within the past couple of years. She made some fluffy, nice comments about good a heart he has. Enablers all around, apparently!
My guess is the parents have just surrendered and hope for the best.
I’m sure Denise is down in her custom Charlie fallout bunker waiting for this episode to pass.
You nailed it.
Charlie Sheen is an complete idiot. Denise is a great Mother to his daughters and tried her best to care for the twins, who are so obviously damaged by their drug addict Mother, since Charlie’s too busy partying and “dating” porn stars, to take care of his boys himself. He is ungrateful and spiteful. She probably refused to let the porn star girlfriend come to Christmas morning and it set Charlie off. He is seriously unstable.
I would bet on this ^^^.
Agreed. I’d also add that I would guess his drug use may be totally out of control at present (not that it is ever really “under control”) and that is another reason Denise would suggest to him to stay away.
Man, the holidays really bring out the worst in some people.
LOL
I cannot be the only one here that thinks Charlie might have some kind of mental illness, right? For me, it would explain *so* much.
Read ‘Why Does He Do That? Inside the Minds of Angry and Controlling Men’ by Lundy Bancroft. Apparently a lot of men that are domestic abusers don’t have a mental illness; however, Charlie does have chemical dependency issues so it is possible. Regardless, he should be kept far away from his children because no child should be exposed to this.
The book by Lundy Bancroft is excellent – one of the best books out there on this subject.
I was just scrolling down to say the exact same thing. All along I thought he was an addict and an a-hole, but with this story it suddenly became clear to me that Charlie Sheen is mentally ill. Truly mentally ill. I can’t believe I didn’t see it before. My heart goes out to Denise- she’s dealt with this for many years, and with more grace than I ever could.
As Ladyslippers astutely pointed out earlier, most domestic abusers do not have a mental illness. Rather, they are obsessed with power and control. Charlie was probably an abusive person (or had tendencies) before his alcohol and drug dependence. However, you are correct in that he has a chemical dependency on alcohol and drugs, which should get treated. Even with treatment, he will more than likely still have abusive tendencies unless he addresses that.
Yup.
So few people know this.
hiddlesgirl is right. Most domestic abusers are not mentally ill. Domestic abuse is not a mental illness and personality disorders, etc do not cause domestic violence. Those who are mentally ill can be more dangerous, though. Domestic violence and abuse is more likely to CAUSE mental illness in the victims than to ever have an effect on the abuser. Alcohol and drug dependency also do not cause domestic abuse.
Just wanted to add that prolonged drug and alcohol abuse alters your brian chemicals and can cause mental illness. Not that it matters w/Charlie because either way, he has ISSUES.
I think there is a significant difference between mental illness and brain damage. Drug abuse causes brain damage. Mental illness is a pathology of the brain that is often genetic. Personality disorders are often the result of trauma.
Abusers do not usually have a mental illness but they may have a personality disorder especially when you consider abuse is always about control. Trauma leaves a person feeling like they have no control. That was/is the case with my mother.
I don’t believe Sheen is mentally ill. He may have a personality disorder from a childhood trauma. He may have brain damage from repeated drug and alcohol abuse. Regardless, he is dangerous.
Oddly enough. I suspect Charlie has been smoking either meth/crack/hillbilly heroin…. and I am not being flippant about it. It would explain so much about all of his off the rails behavior.
Drinking and coke would not bring on the really violent sh*t. Yea, they will give you anger issues. But something about the quality of his skin and how much he has aged in the last 3-4 years.
Just looks like he has been smoking the meth. And meth/crack/hillbilly heroin does a lot of damage to your brain. And it would explain the continue dissolving of his teeth. I bet his dentist is making a fortune trying to keep those teeth from falling out at this point.
Side thought: I wonder if Denise had that house put in her name at some point. Like when Charlie was feeling good. She just strikes me as a girl that would never let Charlie have the upper hand on her. Like owning the home she lives in.
And I suspect the court would end up giving Denise more than that $55K. Charlie better go sit his ass down. Before he lets a Judge start handing out child support payments amounts for him.
The violence has been an issue for quite some time and he does it while sober.
LadySlippers is very correct. Charlie has been physically violent for years. Does anyone remember when he “accidentally” shot Kelly Preston in 1990? I love that when he was making his media rounds two years ago (during his “Winning!” phase) he blamed Kelly!
Someone was using a quote the other day (can’t remember the celebrity we were talking about): If you see an a…hole in the morning, you’ve seen an a…hole. If you see a…holes all day, you’re the a…hole!
Truer words can not be spoken when it comes to Charlie Sheen.
It was in reference to Blohan. Truer words have never been spoken
Thank you 🙂 I thought it was Kanye… But I knew it was someone delusional.
That quote is from Justified! It’s one of my favorites.
Mine too!
Intriguing interesting quote – food for thought.
if someone would write a fiction story like that everyone would be saying “way too over the top, especially this character called Charlie, its all too cartoony.”
huge respect to Denise.
I realize he’s mentally ill, but damn, what an asshole. After everything she has done for him recently!
If her telling him not to bring his porn star girlfriend on a family trip with the children leads to him basically threatening her with violence, then he SHOULDN’T have access to the kids.
I honestly do not believe that he is mentally ill. He MAY have a personality disorder, but I don’t even think that is the case. While I cannot diagnose someone without interviewing him, as a psychiatrist, I am pretty attuned to those with psychiatric involvement.
So what does he have to do for a court to deny him access to the kids? It shouldn’t be up to Denise at this point, and it definitely shouldn’t have any bearing on their child support. If anything, they should award as much to the kids as possible, before Daddy blows it all on hookers and drugs.
Please, please, please, someone stop this nutjob, before he brings another defenseless child into this world…
castration?
Perfect solution!
I really hate to say this, but I have a feeling it’s only a matter of time before his current girlfriend gets pregnant.
This man needs CO$. They are the only people guaranteed to “out pyscho” him. This person disgusts me. Forever ungrateful. *spits*
NO, please.
But the egos of Tom Cruise and Charlie Sheen would never fit into one room…or church.
Madonna, Tom, Charlie and Oprah all in the same room – Madonna and Charlie in a debate with Tom and Oprah. (or Oprah and Charlie in a debate with Madonna and Tom) People could vote on the topic of debate like they do on american idol or survivor. This would be fun to watch. .
His moods swing wildly from one side to another. Can we say bipolar?
I think so but the thing is that condition is treatable. It wouldn’t be easy and it might not solve all the issues but there is treatment. Thing is that Charlie is happier not being treated which is unforgivable because of what he puts his loved ones thru.
Probably not bipolar.
Domestic abusers swing widely in order to keep their victims from stabilising themselves. On the other hand, people with bipolar have a chemical imbalance in their brain. Domestic abusers CHOOSE to do this as a part of their terror campaign whereas others with mental illness do not.
@LadySlippers: Agree. Abusers emotions, actions and modds swing widely to control and instill fear in their victims.
Domestic violence is cyclical, and the abusers know that the victim is aware of this historical cycle. So, after the honeymoon phase (1), where the couple (or other domestic partnership–most domestic violence laws protect anyone living in a given household together or those related by blood to the victims) is in good terms, the abuser gets violent to “set the victim in their place” (2), then apologizes and blames their anger on drugs/alcohol/jealousy/their love for the victim (3). Then again, honeymoon phase (1), tension building (2) angry outburst (3) etc. The cycle continues in this endless loop until someone stops it–be it the victim or abuser.
I don’t think Charlie Sheen is mentally ill. As one of my professors very early on in my education to become a psychiatrist once said: “sometimes an asshole is just an asshole and we need not rely on psychology or psychiatry to excuse it.”
paranormalgirl: Totally agree on the asshole assessment. But don’t you think his out-of-control drug & alcohol abuse has in some way altered his brain chemicals? I can’t help but think he has some sort of mental illness, on top of all his other issues. It sounds like he has always been an abuser – but lately it just seems on a whole new level… although that could just be because he has Twitter and whatnot to show the world what has been going on all along.
Addiction is actually considered a disorder in and of itself. But again, while the disorder may exacerbate his abuse, it is not the cause of the abuse.
Let’s not insult those with bipolar disorder. He is not bipolar. He is abusive. Quite a bit of difference.
At first I was confused – I couldn’t understand how he could cut a baseball bat with that knife.
Then I realized that the baseball bat was made out of salami.
I’m from the Sammy Sosa era – I thought it was a corked bat!
He’s probably never going to change, is he? After all Denise and done and endured, we’re back to this. I sincerely hope her daughters understand his behavior is unacceptable and never get involved with a controlling jerk.
He is not going to change. He has always been this way and always will be.
I’m sure Denise is praying that he takes her back to court so he can have his parental rights even further diminished.
Courts often side with the father now. Abusers are allowed visitation.
I think CPS is onto Charlie. There is no love lost there. It seems like crackhead Brooke is getting her boys back just to spite him. She’s beyond unfit. Denise has always been stable. CPS will side with her on anything, rightfully so.
Hey everyone,
There are a lot of myths that surround domestic abuse and mental illness is one of them. I know that a lot of you think he’s mentally ill and he very well could be. But mental illness is often blamed in domestic abuse situations when there isn’t a mental illness at all. Many domestic abusers ENJOY the terror they inflict on others *and* test well within normal limits on psychological tests. As shocking as it is — most do not have a mental illness. I totally understand your reasoning as their behaviour looks crazy but it’s often by design. They can use it as an excuse. So not only are they manipulating their family, they are manipulating you, the general public.
I have gotten on other posts with other known domestic abusers and have asked people to read a few books by Lundy Bancroft. He works exclusively with domestic abusers and his books are startling and honest. He sticks up for domestic abuse victims and survivors and shows how intricate and complex this issue is.
**If you work in the healthcare, legal, or education systems, I honestly think his books should be mandatory reading — they are that good. And sadly, domestic abuse is actually quite prevalent which is why these fields should have a thorough understanding of the issue.**
Two books by Lundy Bancroft (he also has a blog and written other books):
‘Why Does He Do That? Inside the Mind of Angry and Controlling Men’ (FANTASTIC and if you can only read one book about domestic violence — this is the one)
‘When Daddy Hurts Mommy’
One thing (out of MANY) that Lundy Bancroft helped me with the most, was realising I wasn’t crazy and that abusive men aren’t good fathers. He debunks a lot of myths and helped me on my path of healing. I am forever grateful for that and I’m probably alive because of him.
Please read the books and help destroy the myths that surround domestic violence. Knowledge is power.
There is a difference between personality disorders and mental illness. The former is more difficult to treat than the latter, but not necessarily impossible. I don’t think Charlie wants to change a thing about himself. He is an unapologetic misogynist, who believes women are the “help” that he pays to do any and all sorts of deeds. They seem to have no value as individuals outside his uses for them. It is beyond awful that he is a role model, for men, to his daughters.
Have you read Bancroft’s book? He flat out states there is nothing wrong psychologically with most domestic abusers. They CHOOSE to do these kinds of actions. They feel they are well within their right as they own their women and children. Even personality disorders don’t choose to be ‘crazy’. Sad to say but most have nothing wrong with them psychologically. *shudder*
Kiddo: I’m being nit-picky (sorry!) but I think the official stance is that a personality disorder is type of mental illness. But yeah, unfortunately, a personality disorder is much harder to treat than other mental illnesses like bipolar and depression.
Yeah, there seems to have been a lot of contemplation as to categorization, but technically yes, they are. In the past, they have been loosely described as “behavior patterns” deviating from the cultural/societal norm (I’ve shortened it). They might be a dysfunctional mode of coping or life skills. They might be caused by (lack of) nurture, traumatic experiences, the patterns could have been learned through successful desired end results, or maybe people are just born that way. There is no conclusive last word in science on why they manifest. But they aren’t treated with pharmaceuticals in the same way as other chemical imbalances.
This comment is long LONG overdue.
Someone really needed to take the time to clarify the difference between a domestic abuser and those who suffer from mental illness–thank you, Lady Slippers.
It might be taboo on my part, but I’m really tired of seeing deplorable behavior passed off as “mental illness”, without any official diagnosis. Now, it’s entirely possible that Sheen falls into BOTH categories, but without knowing for sure, I’m not giving this asshole any excuses.
@Kiddo-exactly. ITA 100% with your assessment.
Here’s the thing: someone with a personality disorder or a mental illness would pretty much be likely to be an equal opportunity abuser. A domestic abuser is able to target the victim and apply very specific forms of abuse to said victim. The domestic abuser is also able to turn on the charm and use multiple forms of deflection when attention is placed on the abuse. That speaks to a well controlled ability to “hide” the abusive behaviors to the general public or to engage in other behaviors that can be used to excuse the abusive behavior.
@ paranormalgirl: Thank you for this comment.
@paranormalgirl, But in limited public fashion, he has been abusive to others, at least verbally, like his campaign to dis Chuck Lorre. He lashes out when he thinks he has been harmed or when he considers himself the “victim” In reality, the consequences he has suffered were by his own hand. He also (without irony) lashed out and blamed child protective services for the shoddy care his children were receiving, when he made no effort to take care of them himself. Once again, taking a victim standpoint.
I don’t think that all people with personality disorders are abusers, or that the disorder causes abuse. But there are traits of the personality disordered which overlap with those of abusers.
Further, in cultures where women are treated as chattel , the behavior of abuse may even be “normalized” or expected. But in the US, with a great deal of progress, there isn’t the same type of positive reinforcement for those behaviors.
I just wanted to add that I wasn’t attempting to make any diagnosis of CS. It was Just a philosophical discussion on abusers, in general.
This is a great discussion. I want to clarify something about personality disorders as I know a great deal about Borderline Personality disorder, intimate knowledge if you will. Abuse/physical violence is one of the identifiers of BP. People with BP are not equal opportunity abusers. They generally focus on one person who becomes the object of the majority of their rage. Usually the spouse. Sometimes a child. So while I respect the opinion of those who say abusers do not have personality disorders, I have to respectfully disagree. They may not abuse to the stalker level Sheen displays but they are most certainly abusive people. I have the PTSD to prove it.
kiddo – there is a difference to how he lashes out at others (he is like an infant throwing a temper tantrum when he doesn’t get his way) and how he abuses the women in his life. An abuser IS emotionally unhealthy. And he is an addict. The difference is that he attempts to deflect from the way he treats women and he goes all out to “prove” something to those he feels have “wronged him (like Chuck Lorre). Some battles he takes very public, others he wages in public to a degree, but I can’t help but feel that what is NOT public is very insidious.
There can be something emotionally unhealthy about a person but it doesn’t necessarily make him clinically mentally ill.
Lucinda – I am not saying that abusers do not have personality disorders. I am saying that the personality disorder doesn’t cause someone to domestically abuse. Domestic abusers will abuse regardless. It’s about power and control. Having a personality disorder or a substance abuse disorder can make the abuse so much worse. In the case of BPD, the idealization/devaluation of loved ones and the extreme reactions to abandonment amplify the need for the power and control already within the abuser.
Some of my most difficult patients are those with BPD. If I could pick and choose my patients, I would avoid those with BPD.
@LadySlippers, I haven’t read the books, but there is something psychologically and emotionally unhealthy with abusers. People with personality disorders also “choose” actions. They know the difference between right and wrong. Of course there may be degrees on a continuum where they have more or less ability to control and act on drives, but I think it’s a serious distortion to see abusers/controllers as within the range of a normal/healthy psychological make-up. I just wanted to add that I don’t believe having a personality disorder (if that is the case) is an excuse or justification for actions.
Bancroft is a psychologist and works with domestic abusers and states, quite adamantly, that that is a myth. And goes about to debunk it too.
As for personality disorders, I move never been taught they choose it. It’s another brain malfunction which is why it’s so hard to treat.
ETA: Kiddo, I encourage you to read the book. I think you’ll be very shocked and surprised. I know I was and that comes from someone who has a decent background in psychology. Read the book and I’d love to chat then. 🙂
There is never only one truth according to only one doctor and one book. It’s an educated opinion and those do vary.
I think there are different levels and types of abuse (i.e. in the moment abuse vs. planned out ahead of time, methodical abuse). While I haven’t read the book, I’m sure the type of abuse she describes probably does not involve mental illness or personality disorders. However, some personality disorders are certainly abusive.
I think at the end of the day it depends on how you define abuse, mental illness and personality disorder.
Thank you, LadySlippers! I am tired of domestic abusers behaviors being pathologized. As you stated, abusers choose to wreak havoc on the safety (emotional, economic, physical, etc.) of others. In a paltry, miniscule percent of cases, the abuser may have a mental illness/personality disorder. However, it is more likely that a person with a mental illness will become a victim.
Charlie is an abusive jerk through and through. His antics are getting more insane for several reasons. He is charming, famous, wealthy, and white (visually), and so has been getting away with this behavior unchecked for decades. Also, people used to blame his behavior on drugs and alcohol, which are NOT causes of abuse. Alcohol and drugs can be factors, but do NOT cause people to abuse others. Abuse is a choice. This guy has been abusing Denise for YEARS. It may be the healthiest thing for her to start cutting ties from him again. This rollercoaster is not safe or healthy for her, her daughters and those closest to her. Though, I do fear that cutting Charlie off may be extremely dangerous for her.
Oh hiddlesgirl,
You’ve made me cry. So many people think the victim is crazy and you fight SO hard to debunk these myths. Most people don’t get that all these myths help the domestic abuser in one way or another. Whether they blame the victim (Alec with his ex wife, daughter, or his ‘stalker’ or any of Charlie’s exes) or provide excuses for the domestic abuser.
Thank you. Thank you so much for this. Thank you for listening and standing up with me. Thank you.
(Sorry, I need to step away as both your comments struck a nerve. I’ve gone from crying to sobbing)
Dear LadySlippers,
Wow–thank you for the kind and beautiful comments! I am glad that they resonated with you. I would actually like to thank YOU for standing up for survivors on this message board. Your strength, brilliance and courage were so apparent and powerful in your comments, and gave me the courage to stand with you to debunk these myths one comment at a time. So many of these abusers get written off in the media as “just” being “jerks,” when in fact they are abusive individuals. More people need to call out this fact and not allow these violent perpetrators to continue to victimize others.
It was heartwarming and refreshing to stand with you as an advocate and voice for domestic violence/intimate partner violence survivors. Be well and I hope you are smiling through those tears. It is motivating and wonderful to know that I have an advocate friend here on CeleBitchy.
Thank you again, LadySlippers.
LadySlippers, has he written any books about a woman being an abuser? As far as mental illness goes, I no nothing, but I’m convinced there was something really, really, wrong with my mother. The fact that she had 4 years of psychiatric nursing, just gave her more ammo to use against me. Most of the time I think her actions were her choice, but there was times when I was positive she was gone, and someone/something was there instead. Her eyes would literally change color. They went black, became tiny, and looked like they were sparking. I can still feel the fear that look gave me, and it’s been over 35 years since I’ve seen it.
@LadyD: I am sorry to hear about your experience, you should not have had to go through that. I am not familiar with your case, but perhaps there was a deeper issue in place with your mother (i.e. illness, personality disorder). But abusive tendencies are not caused by mental illness. However, these tendencies can be worsened by the presence of an illness.
hiddlesgirl85, I think she enjoyed it. There were lots of times when she would prolong the torture because it made my baby sister laugh to see me trying to get away from her. To think these were deliberate actions on her part… ya, I don’t know what to say about that. I do know that for the first time ever, I want to hurt her. I’m dead set against violence against people, and I have never wanted to hurt anyone, ever. I left home the day I graduated, and didn’t talk to or see my parents for over 5 years. When I saw her again, I sat her down and asked her why she hated me so much. Her reply was that she didn’t hate me, she always loved me. That hurt worse, way worse, than anything she ever did to me. She then offered to let me punch her. I said no, that that would make me like her. She stood up from her chair with the same look in her eyes that I had seen my whole life. I stood up too, and to this day I honestly don’t know if I would have stood there and let her hurt me again, or if I would have defended myself. Shortly before she died I asked her to please, please, talk to my little sister and get her away from the man that was abusing *(and still is) her. I told her my sis would listen to her, and to please, please do something for Leanne. She couldn’t even do that. It was the only thing I ever in my life, asked her to do for me. When she died, I was alone with her in the hospital room. My sister had gone for some food. When she literally started to die, her breaths were becoming slower and slower. I felt so sorry for her that I wanted to hold her hand. I don’t want anyone to die alone. I was afraid that if I did hold her hand, she would open her eyes, and I knew I was the last person on earth she would want to see before she died, so I didn’t do it. I should have been a bigger person.
Great, now I’m crying. I really hate crying, it makes me feel weak. I’m going to go outside now and play in the snow with my cats.
LadyD – while mental illness and personality disorders don’t CAUSE domestic abuse, it is more than possible that your mother may have been mentally ill in addition to being abusive. If your mother was abused as a child, that is a pattern that she may follow. But it has been documented that there are noticeable changes in and around the hippocampus of those abused or maltreated as children. These changes can lead to a predisposition to certain mental illnesses (PTSD, depression, addiction). That, coupled with a learned pattern to abuse, can cause someone to become a pretty horrific abuser in turn. Children of abuse either tend to become staunchly anti-abuse, become abusers themselves, or continue to be abused throughout their lives. It sounds like you’re making it through the fire. Hang in there!
Hi Ladies,
I had a harrowing experience with a similar gentleman. Long distance, handsome, and well-heeled. I flew back and forth to see him in Hong Kong where he lived and bonded instantly. He was in his over-value knight phase with me. Wanted to marry and have a whirlwind romance. Finally after he came to see me in my home in Norcal, I noticed he was devaluing me and getting mean. He was pushing for me to relocate and stayed for almost three weeks in my little cottage in the hills. I was walking on eggshells by the second week and sensed how “off” and strange he was becoming. Plus, conveniently forgot about previous promises and then started the cycle of discard phase. I was counting the last three days. Finally, he woke me in the middle of the night before his departure and tried to “gas light” me, convince me I was imagining all his broken promises and poor behavior. I stood up to him and told him I knew what he was doing! Then he assumed I’d leave family and friends to move to Hong Kong from Cali after all this creepy nonsensical behavior. Ick.. Total mental abuser… I would have been an almost-prisoner with no autonomy. Yikes, Like you state, he could not hide his cycles of abuse. They are smooth though!
I do not have any degree in psychology, but I know from the first hand experience that abusers (father and ex-boyfriend) are “mentally healthy” – they simply love to intimidate and humiliate someone. They need it like oxygen. Their worst fear is that the victim will see through it and leave them.
Thank you both, LadySlippers & hiddlesgirl85, so much for wading forth in a sea of misinformation.
It’s tough to find books that don’t pathologize abusers OR their targets. (I have a personal problem with the words ‘victim’ or ‘survivor’ that’s probably not helpful, but nevertheless, I choose the word ‘Victor’ for anyone who’s still alive after making it through abuse.) Thanks to Slipper’s previous recommendation, I have read Lundy Bancroft’s blog and it’s right on. – http://lundybancroft.blogspot.com/
Perhaps the rush to label evil as mentally ill or damaged is a really natural reaction to it. The idea of someone choosing to be evil and ENJOYING IT is an anathema so horrifying we don’t want to comprehend it. If we acknowledge this darkness, we are face to face with the darkness within each and every one of us. The fact that evil is not ‘other’, but US is just too much. That we battle against ourselves to push out and destroy those impulses telling us ‘we have every right’, ‘it’s my right to punish where and when I choose (there’s that word again) to see fit’, ‘I’m in charge and you’d better never forget it’, and ‘you deserve this’, and ‘now you’re getting what’s coming to you’, is its own reward.
It’s OK to be repulsed by the unnaturally venomous people who choose every day to stay on their path of destroying their ‘loved ones’ because they take a great deal of satisfaction and enjoyment from it. However, pathologizing these inconceivably dangerous people is another way of psychologically handling the unimaginable idea that people like this exist because they simply want to, and there’s actually nothing wrong with them other than their twisted desires.
I don’t understand why anyone would want to vacation with their ex anyway. With your kids, yes. But that’s what visitation is for.
She does it for the children, a product of divorce, to give them a sense of family with their mom and dad. Dad probably isn’t allowed to take the children alone, so Denise invites him so the girls can experience a vacation with dad. Honestly, she’s doing all the right things so that the girls have a bond with their dad as best they can.
The problem is that Charlie has a habit of c*cking up so-called family vacations by picking up porn stars ans the results is usually a Breaking News bulletin for TMZ. Remember the trip to New York with Denise and the girls and he accused a porn star of stealing his watch and she accused him of assault?
Vacations are supposed to be relaxing; Denise and her daughters are entitled to some peace given the upheaval they endured this last year. Who the hell would want to invite Upheaval on a fcuking vacation?
And hello, didn’t Charlie and Brooke’s domestic assault (which led to their breakup/divorce)happen on a Christmas vacation?
Yeah, good luck getting your child support payments reduced, you POS. Won’t happen, lol.
His mind is probably damaged from so much drug abuse that he can’t think straight. So prepare for a lifetime of increasingly irrational behaviour from this man. I cannot imagine the grind it must be to try to get along with such a person for the sake of children. Her wasting appearance goes a long way to show the stress she must be enduring. Peace, Denise. I wish you and your children well.
Often abuser use alcohol and drugs as a way to excuse the domestic violence. The domestic violence is ALWAYS there but it gives them another convenient cop-out.
@LadySlippers: Truth! That is such a common myth. Drugs and Alcohol DO NOT cause abusers to abuse. Drugs and Alcohol can be a factor, but NOT the cause.
It’s a way out for abusers to say that they were drunk or high and “didn’t mean it.”
As long as this dangerous myth continues to be perceived as truth, abusers will continue to not hold themselves accountable for their dangerous actions.
YES! Amen
Thank goodness his girls have a stable mother, unlike his sons. He is repulsive.
He just needs to stop it now. The last person who needs more kids is Charlie. He should still be thanking Denise and he needs to call her immediately and apologize for his immature and vulgar behavior. If I were Denise I wouldn’t want daddy’s latest tramp at Christmas either. Just saying Charlie can do all the tramps he wants but Denise gets to decide who she willingly let’s into her children’s life. She is a good mother in my book and Charlie should be grateful for that.
Judging from her body language, Charlie’s new porn “actress” GF ain’t into kissing him.
I just can’t get past that he pays 55,000 $ a month for child support…. It takes me a whole year to make that……………………………
Even more — people can actually successfully live off just that in a whole year as well without wasting twice that in a fortnight or on a big ugly handbag. I am always amazed at how much money people waste trying to impress each other. Shallowness is very expensive apparently.
Charlie genuinely frightens me. I’m so scared he’s going to kill someone — and likely it will be a woman.
Is anyone else curious where you can buy a baseball bat salami?
What a lunatic. I know Denise should have known better to get involved with this tool but I can’t help but feel bad for her. Team Denise always and 4 EVA.
Isn’t the posted photo of the bat and dagger enough for Denise Richards to get a TRO against Tiger-Blood Charlie? The woman asked for no extra monies to take care of Charlie’s emotionally disturbed boys. Now he’s threatening her? Where’s the consequences for Charlie? As usually, he skates on a pile of cash and blow.
And I sure as hell wouldn’t let my Ex take a “family” vacation with yet another porn-star wh@re in tow.
He seems to think the “humorous” part of his sick little messages makes him look innocuous to outsiders.
Team Denise. Always have been.
Denise Richards has undeniably behaved with a great deal of grace and dignity over the years with Charlie Sheen. However, I think it is also appropriate to note that his behavior has been well documented for years. Prior to their marriage. I find it highly unlikely that she was unaware of who she was getting involved with and she chose to not only continue the relationship she married him and chose to have children with him. So, yeah, kudos for the way she has handled him since that time but she made that choice.
Richards hasn’t always been perfect, particularly before she met Sheen, but I don’t think a woman needs to be perfect to be a victim. Abusers are very good at drawing people in, and she’s far from the first person to be misled by one. Unlike everyone else in this story, she’s matured as she’s gotten older and learned from her mistakes.
@ Naomi: Yikes! Judgmental much? I’m not sure if you realize it, but you’re comment was incredibly offensive. You were Victim-Blaming and Victim-Shaming all over the place. Comments like that is one of the reasons why domestic violence victims (both men and women) do not leave their abusive relationships–because they believe that they are at fault for initially entering the relationship.
As lunchcoma said, abusers are good at hiding (or masking) their abusive behavior in the beginning of the relationship. The abuser shows their true colors later on in the relationship, for instance, after the wedding, birth of a child, engagement, etc. Or during another period when they know they have control over the victim somehow.
I find it much more interesting, that his newest p0rn-girlfriend sticks with him through all of this. First he went after Brooke and he is not better than her, so he can’t judge her – sorry. Realising that I’m an unfit parent because I love coke, booze, hookers and p0rn”stars” more than my kids is not good parenting. If he would love his kids honestly he would change his ways, sober up and get some therapy. But then life wouldn’t be fun anymore, would it, Charlie?
Now he is after Denise. That is a huge red flag and his newest piece should run. If she isn’t, this is true love and will end happily ever after – or she just wants some fame and money. I wonder what it might be…
Among all of his other hideous qualities, he is also one of those jerks who tries to control with $ and material things as a way to try and keep people in line. When things do not go his way, he taketh away.
I am sure Denise is not losing sleep over the thought of her child support cut in half or completely. The courts will never take away support completely and Chuckie might find he might end up paying her more if a judge checks out his way income and other factors. Denise is not in it for the money as witnessed by not accepting additional support for his kids with that nut case Brooke.
Denise needs to remember, no good deed goes unpunished.
How is his relationship w his eldest daughter? It’s scary a man w so many issues w women has three daughters.
Remember when they were in NYC in separate rooms and Charlie brought his latest piece to the dinner table where his young daughters were with Denise. The photos were on the internet. Later that night he terrorized that woman, it was in the news. The girls are getting older. Who would want their daughters exposed to porn stars and hookers and a dad w drug addiction? She has every right to protect her children. I do not know if they were traumatized by what happened with CPS? Maybe she wants a peaceful holiday with her children/family.
It is sad that he does this stuff publicly and people still watch him on TV. I do not. People actually employ this guy. It confuses me. I can not and do not want to know behind closed doors what he has done to these women.
I understad he is an adult so I do not think he can be sectioned. His ass needs to be put in a serious hospital. He is not just a danger to his ex’s, children and current girl friends. He is a danger to anyone he comes into contact with.
Frankly I am glad he has public rants so that the woman/children, etc he harms have public proof. My experience is an abuser usually would basically do a gas light situation. The ones I saw and know did not use drugs and that was way before social media.
Poor Denise. I remember seeing her in my teen magazines looking so fresh-faced and pimping astringent. Now look at the quagmire she’s in. That man and his druggie ex-wife have probably shaved years off her life. How can she deal with that sort of stress? Money can’t make it all better. There’s always some sort of bickering or harassment going on.
Denise was so stunning when younger, really beautiful. She’s still so pretty but too gaunt in her face. It’s aging her.
People will forgive Charlie binging on drugs, banging porn stars, having multiple porn stars as live-ins, going on bizarre tirades in the press about the druggie ex, his producer of Two and a Half Men, on and on, and his career survives. People will not forgive Charlie going after Denise with how accomodating she has been with him these last years to have a sense of family with the children, and then taking on his boys with no extra child support and trying to bring up five children, all for the good of his children. Charlie, you’re treading on thin ice. She’s your only ally these days. She’s a freakin’ saint. Get over your childish tantrum and lay down the crack pipe for a few days until you are more sane.
I’m afraid there are a lot of people out there who will overlook his behaviour again. There are comments on TMZ already where people (not many and mostly guys…) who blame this thing on Denise. They’re saying basically that she has not the right to protect the girls because he is the FATHER and has the right to see them whenever he wants.
People will blame it on drugs or alcohol AND/OR Denise but not on Charlie, because he is a good guy with issues – as if… There is a website (can’t remember what it is called) that lists some of his abusive behaviour against women. It reminded me, that after what went down with Brooke on Christmas a couple of years ago the producers of TAAHM (and the audience) took him right back with open arms. But when he startet to go verbally after one of the producers they fired him. The message behind it: “Go on and do with your women whatever you want, but attack one of the producers (verbally) and you get fired!” And still, a huge part of the audience stood by his side. And I believe, this time won’t be different – people will believe he’s doing this because he loves his children and he’s being mistreated by Denise.
I truly hope this time will be different. That this backfires on him big time, but I doubt it.
I feel bad for Denise. The stress she has to deal with because of Charlie. You can see she’s stressed just by looking at her.
Enter that as “Exhibit A” in court for a restraining order.
“On the first day of Christmas
My true love love (crack) gave to me
A Porn Star with HIV!”
Next anyone?
“On the second day of Christmas
My true love gave to me
Two bags of drugs
and a Porn Star with HIV”
just because his newest chick is a porn star doesn´t mean she is a bad person. Yes stupid and greedy maybe.
Charlie Sheen is and always was the problem! He uses, abuses and trashes all his women. Those young and stupid porn stars/ strippers/ addicts are the poorest of them all because no one will believe or support them. They are negative labelled and control freak Charlie can treat them as he wants.
Notice how Denise has not publicly commented on Charlie’s latest “psycho moment?” I think she has learned how to handle him.
Martin Sheen said Charlie’s emotional maturity ceased when he began using drugs.
Have enjoyed reading comments today.
oyh vey, I smell more Sheen babies in the making, someone else cashing in $$$$$!
If Denise is still under investigation by CS (because of Brooke’s alleged allegations) then I can see why she wouldn’t want anything crazy Charlie does in her presence to affect that investigation. Wasn’t there a rumor that Denise & kids previously did go on a vacation w/ Charlie & his gal pals? I bet that situation wouldn’t sit right during any on-going CS investigation. I think Charlie should stop thinking about himself & his feelings but extend some support to Denise because she was put in this situation w/ CS because of him. He wasn’t taking care of his sons because he’s all whacked out too & the one who stepped in was her & now look at all the flack she’s getting because of her graciousness. He’s very selfish & should realize that Denise has too look extra-pure at this time because her own daughters’ futures are at stake due to Brooke’s allegations.
Even though she will love her kids immensely and endlessly, I am pretty sure, Denise is regretting her decision to have ever getting this close to this man, getting married and children with him. I am pretty sure, there is not one day, she will cursing about this decision to have ever been involved with him.