Remember when I really didn’t care for Amy Schumer? She entered the scene and became a big star and “personality” very quickly, and the growing pains were rough – she made some mistakes, she was racist, her comic routines possibly had some borrowed/stolen material and more. But she was smart about things long-term – she took some time off, she stopped with the Lena Dunham thing, the “Everything I Say Has To Be So Controversial!” thing. And Amy started making better points and raising the level of dialogue about feminism. I’m not sure where this fits in: Amy Schumer feels sorry for hot women, because everything they do is sexualized by dudes.
Amy Schumer revealed she wouldn’t want to be an “ounce more attractive” and feels bad for women who are “hot.”
“That’s the truth. Not an ounce,” she said on Monday’s episode of Dax Shepard‘s podcast, “Armchair Expert.” The “I Feel Pretty” star continued, “Being a woman sucks. It’s very difficult, and something else that we’ve all realized is like, we are sexualized like, all the time – even when it seems crazy – so I feel really bad for these girls who are so hot because guys can’t handle it. You can’t have a conversation. Everything’s gonna skew sexual and you’re gonna be treated differently. And honestly, I actually feel really bad for them. But then there’s also women that feel so unattractive that they’re just invisible…it just sucks anyway,” she said.
And while Schumer and Shepard both agreed that it’s a lose-lose situation for women, in regards to her own appearance she said, “I would not change a f–king thing.”
Schumer also took a moment to discuss how women are constantly afraid they are in danger of getting sexually assaulted. “Women are mostly scared of violence because, you know, one in six women reports being sexually assaulted but really it’s one in three women, so we’re not even like, ‘is this going to happen?’ We’re like, ‘when?’” she said, referring to being sexually assaulted. “Women, we run home at night….we live in constant fear of violence.”
I understand the argument she’s making, but also… I don’t understand it. So much of our lives – men and women – is devoted to making ourselves attractive, for ourselves and other people. So much time is devoted to mating and beautifying and all of that. And who amongst us has never thought “damn, if I looked like [insert name of amazingly beautiful person] then I could rule the world?” It’s okay to think that. But to just shut it down like “I would never want to experience what it’s like to be crazy-hot”??? I don’t know. I would love to know what it’s like. Maybe being crazy-hot isn’t all fun and games, and maybe it sucks sometimes for the reasons Amy says. But I still feel like “being crazy-hot” is mostly a positive experience.
Photos courtesy of Getty, WENN.
well, beauty and hotness is subjective, so what is “crazy hot” for one guy isn’t for another guy…The sad truth is, we are sexualised and devalued as women no matter what we look like.
She has a point. We’re screwed either way though when it comes to physical appearance, and it’s interesting to see how each side of this problem affects two different forms of ageism. On the one hand, there’s the pressure to meet narrow standards of beauty at all times, people feeling entitled to disrespect, bully, and discriminate against girls/women who don’t meet those standards, and the erasure of older women. Women are also expected to ‘put it away’ sometimes, or know when their ‘time’ is over when they don’t line up with certain ideals, in a “Who do you think you are?” sort of way.
On the other hand, girls and attractive women get viewed through this ‘Garden of Eden’ lense, (“look what you made me/him/them do”) and all are made to pay for the fact that men sexualize everything they do from early ages. Men take their resentment and fear out on women over this issue all the time, and unfortunately some women copy them. It plays out in the victim-blaming and different forms of misogynistic abuse directed at girls and women- whether the misogynistic abuse is verbal, psychological, financial, social, physical. Even though women of all ages experience different forms of slut-shaming and victim-blaming, younger women get targeted the most. At times, people use the beauty ideals that women are closer to as an excuse to carry out those types of abuse, or gaslight and silence girls for speaking out against them.
On top of all that, it’s likely for us to experience all of those things throughout our lifetimes- either because it’s actually directed us personally, or because those things effect other women we care about and we’re trying to do something about it. It’s crazy.
Spot on.
True. And if you listen to the whole interview (I like that podcast and listened to it a few days ago) you would hear that they were discussing, first, that no matter how “hot” you are, everyone has insecurities. Dad idolizes Pitt’s appearance and acknowledged that after a few days of looking like Pitt he’d be back to hating himself at the same level. Schumer agrees and says “why bother being hotter if you’re going to hate yourself as much….seems like a pain in the ass with all the attention”
In other words the statement is more coherent in context
Okay, I’m going to be completely honest here and I understand if I get negative comments but here is what I have dealt with as a “hot woman”: I have had several female friendships ended because their husbands have made passes at me. Their husbands have even claimed to have had an affair with me to get “bro-points” from their male friends and family. I have had wives that were my friends accuse me of horrible things (affairs etc.) that *never* happened. These men who were supposed to be my friends and completely risked their marriages to be “The Man” and had no regard or care for what damage that could be done to my marriage. Luckily, my husband saw through all of these lies and had my back through all of it without question. I would also like to add that these men were friends with my husband as well. One of these men even had their daughter as the flower girl at our wedding. I was called all kinds of horrible names through social media, text and phone calls. Rumors about me were rampant through our community. It was awful and due to no fault of my own. It does happen and it is very real.
These things happen to unconventional looking women as well. All of us women have had other women causing fresh hell for us and it doesn’t matter what we look like. Rude men are gonna be rude no matter your face. Rude women are going to be rude women regardless of your face too. Trifling fools will remain trifling fools to whoever they encounter
I’ve seen it happen to every kind of woman. It’s horrible.
Wow I really hope you found some better friends. Well done to your husband for standing by you !
I completely eliminated all of them from my life! I have very valuable and loyal friends now. I do keep my circle very small now. Lesson learned. My husband is amazing!
yikes, sounds like you had some pretty shitty people around you!
Oh, I did! They acted like great friends until they weren’t. I used it all as a lesson and learned from it.
That sucks. I feel like it’s hard to have female friends, esp if you’re single. So many times, i feel like women are competing with each other. And i dont want to do that. Good female friends can be hard to find. I’ve even been a tad jealous of my female friend who had an amazing body that all the men went nuts over. Even though i was married! We’ve been trained to compete with each other for men’s attention and it’s hard to shake that. Getting older has been a blessing in some ways because i feel like i dont get as much shit from women. Sometimes I feel like they try to put me down to make themselves look better. And I really hurt cuz I wasn’t even trying to compete with them.
Everything you said is so true. 🙁
Thanks for admitting that, I think it’s common. I have been in a stable, loving relationship for 16 years, yet I still find myself being jealous of women who are very beautiful or have very slim, fit bodies. I realize it and try so hard not to let my own insecurities interfere with relationships with women. I also think there is a level of attractiveness that makes career success more likely and that just stinks.
So true. But honestly there are amazing women out there. My girls ALL make really good money, are smart, take incredibly good care of themselves, and are kind and supportive to each other. I have had trouble in the past being friends with women but I kind of changed how I deal with it. I am super supportive of women I meet now and their interests. I vocally support them in the community. I refuse to say negative things unless I am under a personal attack, where I usually just ignore the bad behaviour and person tbh. I think women love having women friends but often feel threatened. When I start being friends I usually point out things that I find really positive about them (honestly) like; you are a gorgeous woman, I am so impressed with your career and professionalism, you are an incredible mother/friend, you have great taste, whatever. And you know, just be there when they need a hand. We all do at some point. And some women just can’t get past themselves, so don’t worry about them. They will likely never grow up.
As a single woman in her early 40s and have been on the receiving end of jealous (and married etc..) women who feel threatened by the fact that I am reasonably attractive (I like to wear fashionable clothes and look after my appearance) and stil single. I don’t know if they think I am going to steal their man but that’s not the case, I just think its them projecting their insecurities onto me.
I think Amy’s comments were a tad stupid as most women have had men who were in relationships hit on them as beauty is in the eye of the beholder – given her own insecurities about her body/looks I think she is projecting somewhat with that statement, particularly now that she is married. Its a bit like the smug married from Bridget Jones’s Diary.
I second this experience. All women do go thru similar things, but when I talk to friends and we share our stories, quite frankly the sheer quantity of experiences I have had of either violence, disrespect, assumptions or intimidation is shocking. Not just to myself but the other women I speak to. I have wondered over the years what all of the contributing factors are, and I would have to say that being “hot” is at least one factor. No necessarily the only one, but it plays a part.
Absolutely!
I agree.. and if you are a good looking girl when younger, the amount of unwanted sexual attention can damage you for life. when dating, you tend to attract the men that are in it only for sex/looks. Looks is just one more attribute. like IQ or personality or athleticism, but somehow it draws the worst in men and other women. Why do women assume all women are interested in their men?
@Quiet-I would add that women who develop early are typically sexualized at a very young age. It’s like men think that because a girl gets boobs at age 13 that she’s a grown woman who is ready to fend off negative attention. The sense of entitlement is absolutely disgusting.
I can’t tell you how many times I have been hit on by mutual friend’s husbands/boyfriends. Like, even close friends too. It’s to the point that it has turned me off to dating and marriage. Even the “good guys” make passes and would seem to want to risk it all for their lust. yes even ones who have children. And anyone can tell you I keep these guys at arms-length, to the point that one of my besties once was upset because I didn’t seem as friendly and welcoming with her man, and I explained to her it’s more me respecting their relationship and not trying to be too buddy buddy with her significant other, because that can get messy real quick. Don’t get me started with all the social media inbox messages I get on a regular basis from men in relationships. It’s disgusting. I’ve lost faith that men in this generation can be faithful.
Also, I had a close friend accuse me of seducing her trash boyfriend. Turns out, he was actually sleeping around with a neighbor, and other random chicks he would meet. We still don’t talk because I guess she felt too dumb over accusing me, while defending her man and finding out that he was going around the block ding everybody else.
I can relate to everything you stated! I am also uncomfortable being around my friends husbands now. Not because of anything their husbands have done but because of how I was treated in the past. I have so much fear of it happening again. One of the wives that accused me of having an affair with her husband (because he said that we did! Not true!) texted me about three years later on New Years Eve apologizing for her behavior and hoping we could become friends again. I never replied back to her and have never spoken to her since. She actually burned all of his clothing with gasoline in their front yard b/c he claimed to have an affair with me and they got divorced over it. Was it really worth it to him?!?! I will never understand it.
I want to thank you all for being understanding about my comment and not bashing me for my honesty. Also, thank you for being so open with your own stories. Let’s all continue to lift each other up and be good, supportive women. Much love to all of you!
Yeah, I’m loving these honest and supportive comments here!!
I think we all lose something (innocence or faith in humanity, etc.) when we realize how some people will say things that are 100% not true. Not like a difference of opinion or perspective, or misunderstanding…but flat out lying about major things that did not happen. When people made things up about me, it kind of blew my mind to know they’d make it up 100% out of whole cloth. Total invention is somehow more disappointing than other deceits.
I am so sorry you had to go through that. It sounds very traumatic to have people of your social community abuse you in such a way. I’m glad that you have a supportive and understanding husband. You sound incredibly strong and intelligent. More power to you!
I wouldn’t say I’m terrifically attractive, but I have had married male friends pull the same things on me. I can relate. My ex, unfortunately, did not believe me, but life goes on. I’m sorry that happened to you.
Cool Amy, cool. So are you going to stop calling women you feel threatened by “skinny anorexic bishes” or “skinny little sluts” in your act when you’re comparing them to your own self image? Because I prefer to take my feminist cues from women who haven’t taken part in tearing us down and feeding the hate and divide between us women.
This!
WORD!
Yup. Agreed. And I feel like she is more obsessed with the whole “pretty girl” conversations than the horniest guys I know. Seriously, she needs to chill out, she is obsessed with her looks. Life is NOT like a 1980s teen comedy Amy,
Yeah I feel bad for rich,white,straight men too.#sarcasm
IMO the advantages of being a “hot woman” outweighs the disadvantages.
Agreed, being a “hot” person comes with its own set of privilages.
I think she’s saying pretty is great, but stunning beauty is not what we think it is, and I believe she’s RIGHT. It’s very hard to be seen as a person: you are always an object. Other women are usually jealous and feel threatened; how would you like to go through life without super-tight girlfriends? Most men ONLY objectify you, and use you as their own ego boost. I’m not beautiful, but my childhood friend was, and believe me, it was not all wonderful by any means. After seeing everything that happened to her, I said: “Being pretty is the absolute best!” None of the downsides of ugliness or stunning beauty!
Yes this. I don’t care for Schumer at all but I understood what she was trying to say here.
I get this too. I feel like I’m pretty not gorgeous, and I’ve had enough weirdness to appreciate how much worse it would be if I were more attention getting. There are instances where attention is bad.
Not really. You are better off being averagely pretty or cute. if you are beautiful or hot, you are at much higher risk for being assaulted, being hit on, having fewer genuine friendships and mentoring from men and fewer female friendships. It’s the reality.
“…if you are beautiful or hot, you are at much higher risk for being assaulted…”
Bullsh*t. This is appalling and also completely, wildly and ridiculously incorrect.
Your also at a greater risk of getting everything the freak you want from people and life. Looks are pretty much everything. At least they are in LA. So, the woes of being beautiful are really interesting or significant to me.
Try being butt-ugly and see how the world treats you.
Brian B…. you might get everything you want, but I bet they are getting a boatload of things they don’t want as well.
To me, this is more of an obnoxious humble brag from Amy. Like, “I’m just the right level of hot, not too hot and not too ugly. I’m the cool girl you can hang with without causing drama with your boys. I’m so cool”. Oh, and there is no ‘allegedly’ with the joke stealing. It’s super blatant.
Yesssss! bobafelty, I had the same reaction.. ”but there’s also women that feel so unattractive that they’re invisible….. ”. So Amy feels she’s the perfect level of hot. Amy does seem self-absorbed and it’s always about her, really. She makes some decent points but it’s usually projections or self aggrandizing so it dilutes her message.
She also called herself reasonably attractive which she is just not. She is definitely unattractive My fellow commentators I think like me will take more issue with her comments on women of color whom she thinks are less attractive because they aren’t white looking
Same way she got enraged when that mag – Cosmo?- had the temerity to describe her as not a ‘Size Six’.
This is so true. I used to try to be feminine, dress nicely (not slutty, just work appropriate nice) I got raped 3x in my life (each time I was drugged) All of the time it was by “friends” (Obviously I was a big idiot with my trust). I lost jobs because management would hit on me and I would not respond. The last rape put me over the edge. I was clinically depressed for almost two years. I cut off my hair into a boy cut, changed all my clothing to androgynous clothing. I rarely socialize. I only go for drinks with other women and my husband and in general I live in fear of men. And I’m not that hot. The women that I am friends with who are more attractive are massive messes because most have been raped or abused in their lifetime. I married into a family of bigger women and they say mean things constantly about my weight and how they wish they got attention. And I don’t discuss my personal past with most people (because Im not a lunatic) but it hurts. Because they have no idea what it’s like to be stalked. To never have male friendships without worrying. To never have professional relationships with men without worrying. IT SUCKS. I mean there are benefits for sure. But I think in a lot of ways the negatives outweigh them. I have literally had zero friendships with men that didnt at some point turn into them trying to sleep with me regardless of their age, relationship status etc. I would like to meet one women who is as predatory as the average male. I dont get why they feel so entitled to destroying peoples lives.
Good luck with your recovery, potato. I’m sorry you were so badly treated, and have been through so much.
Thanks Nikki. Yes I am well on the way to being mended. I am actually growing my hair out and buying slightly more feminine clothes. I just stay away from men now. There is no point. Despite being well off, intelligent, successful, professional and hardworking, I always get treated like a piece of ass. So why bother playing with pigs if you dont want to get covered in mud.
I’m so sorry these things have happened to you.
It is kind of one of those taboo things to talk about, you feel like an asshole bringing it up. I was definitely an ugly ducking scenario, and have seen how people treat you when they don’t find you attractive vs when you are the hot one. The major switch was to suddenly becoming a prey animal. I have been used and abused sexually, I have been a goal, I have been in object to a degree that is just completely incomparable to before and it has been life shattering and changing.
I think it also depends on your personality – I’m very shy and anxious and self conscious, whereas the more confident and loud attractive women I’ve seen seem to be able to navigate the terrain better and turn it to their advantage. For me, sexual predators read my personality as an easy target, and other people read me as intimidating and mistake my shyness for aloofness. It has made it more difficult to get folded into certain social situations.
There are great parts – it’s wonderful not feeling like anyone is out of your league , and it definitely gives you a boost of confidence when you are feeling nervous. When I wasn’t ‘hot’ yet, I was invisible. It really, really really sucks to feel invisible.
It’s kind of an addiction, kind of like fame – you can’t get yourself to give it up, but its also the thing that hurts you.
Ugh if this comes off assholey or patronizing I apologize. It’s a hard thing to say correctly. But I think the main take home of it all is that our focus on women’s appearance, good or bad, is the problem.
Hah, the worst part is I am super confident and take no garbage from anyone. I imagine this is why I was always drugged. So that’s awesome. I have never seen myself as hot so I have always felt like everyone is out of my league hahaha. I also value people based on their intelligence and kindness so looks have rarely entered into my equation.
@Hmmm yes, beauty and shyness do not mix well. Women rarely engage or want to be friends, instead you get iced out at work or social gatherings because you’re perceived as “stuck up”. Playboy men pursue the beautiful ones and treat them terribly, and the good decent men usually won’t try because they are intimidated. And a beautiful woman can never complain, because she’s so beautiful the jealous women feel she has no right to and the men don’t believe she could ever have any problems other than having too many boyfriends.
It’s harder to be an unattractive woman like myself because I pretty much don’t exist to most people . I get called ugly so often and laughed at so much for my looks . It sucks but I cant change it. I do pinup modelling to help my self esteem and to be a someone other ladies with my disorder can look up to so something positive has come out of it I suppose:)
I agree, Rose, that ugliness is the hardest of all. I was the butt of a lot of cruelty when I was fat. I can only say, some really strong, powerful women dressed super chic, carried themselves proudly, and beat the odds in life despite unattractive features. The French have a term for it which I can’t remember, but it’s like “stunning ugly” ! Also, age is the great equalizer; sometimes homely women who try hard to look their best overtake the conventionally pretty gals who have coasted their whole lives. This can work in one’s goals and achievements, also, which are much more important than mere looks, especially as time goes on! Anyone who laughs at you is terribly ugly inside, and I’m sure your inner beauty shines when people take the time to get to know you. Don’t let their ignorance define you; we’re rooting for you!!
@Nikki I think the term is jolie-laide! It just goes to show you how skewed we are in the US. My husband is a plastic surgeon and it’s pretty depressing how often people come in wanting to remove every bit of what makes them unique! He turns them down, as every surgeon should in that case, but they inevitably find someone who will turn them into another person. So sad.
Thank you BCity!! That was driving me crazy! And frankly, I hope this is not offensive, but I’ve wondered if I’d be a tad insecure married to a plastic surgeon, wondering if he would see my wrinkles clinically?! I guess it depends on the HUMAN BEING!! Thanks again!
@Rose I seriously doubt that you’re unattractive at all…it’s way more likely that people who actually hate themselves have you convinced that’s the case. Always remember that what’s “conventionally attractive” in American culture doesn’t translate around the world and it’s just an arbitrary standard cooked up lord knows how. It certainly doesn’t reflect the reality of our diverse society, that’s for sure! Anyone who picks on you is just an insecure, rude turd and try not to listen to them.
Beauty conventions tend to align universally. Have clear skin, be slim, look healthy, and have symmetrical features. Also, you know what? Some people ARE unattractive. Again, you know what? THAT’S PERFECTLY FINE, TOO.
Not everyone is going to be beautiful and as long as your means to make a living for yourself don’t depend on how you look you just might be fine.
Let’s not forget these people are ENTERTAINERS; their faces and their bodies are their commodities as much as they are their instruments. Most people’s skill set relies on using their intellectual capacity to perform work functions. Not how they look in front of a camera or in photos.
I’m told I look a lot like Bette Davis ? Like almost weekly I get that . So I don’t know , I have something called Turner syndrome so people are rude about that.
Maybe I don’t have the look that is seen as beautiful by today’s standards.
Rose, this has to be kismet, because I used to live in Bette Davis’ old apartment back in the day!! What beautiful eyes you must have ❤️
Rose, I’m sure you have a beauty that is unique to you alone. I think Bette Davis is gorgeous. I think unique looking people are beautiful.
As for Amy’s point above, I actually get what she’s saying. I can change from “plain” and “ugly” to “conventionally pretty’ by putting on makeup, wearing “the right” clothes, and switching my glasses for contacts. The difference in the way I get treated between one and another is HUGE. Huge. It’s so different that I had one guy who’d met me repeatedly when I was “plain” meet me once when I was “pretty” and say, “I don’t think I’ve ever met you before.”
Honestly, there are detriments to both. When I look “plain,” I get ignored, disrespected, treated apathetically by men and women alike. Men are unfriendly. they walk past me like I’m the invisible friggin woman. Hot men, when forced into conversation with me, act like I have the bubonic plague. True story. The disdain is astounding. Most women are nice to me.
When I look “attractive”: random men men engage me in conversations or holler things at me in the street. Married men flirt with me. Dating men pretend that they’re single and hit on me. Men hold the door for me or follow me with their eyes when I walk down the hall. One would think a woman would feel powerful from beauty, but really after the five second rush of feeling flattered, you feel incredibly vulnerable and scared. When I’m “attractive”, beautiful women are kind to me, and quick to make friendships. Other women, at times, can be cold or unkind, and treat me with suspicion or make cutting comments about my body–remarks that are meant to be a joke, but are really passive aggressive blame, criticizing me for having a “conventionally attractive” body. When I’m “attractive” I understand why beautiful women are perceived as frosty, why they walk faster down the street, why they don’t lift their gaze to meet you in the eye. They get a lot of passive aggressive hostility from other women, and a lot of unwanted sexual advances from men.
There are downsides to both, is all I’m saying.
To me, “hotness” is an aura, a vibe. I see sex appeal from various people, not all necessarily what society may deem “hot”. Also, humor and intelligence is sexy af. Take Melania Trump, for example; a woman many people would label “hot” and, yet, for me and many men I know, she couldn’t be less attractive. Just an off putting energy and not just because I find her mind numbingly clueless. Clearly, she attracts men who are equally as clueless and orange.
I always find it curious that if a woman says she is hot, so many people want to tear it down, but if a woman says she’s unattractive, so many run to try and say otherwise.
Looks are relative, but confidence (not cockiness) is attractive as my eye beholds it.
I remember reading, I think it was Bruce Willis, saying “For every pretty face, there’s at least one person who’s sick of it”…or something along those lines.
Amy Schumer seems to act obsessively not obsessed with looks. She’s trying so hard to say she’s perfectly pretty enough and attracts guys left and right and don’t you forget it, but she levels it out just enough to say she’d hate to be portrayed as too beautiful. It’s a not so clever tactic that shouts insecurity to me.
Aside from that, I think she married a man who makes her feel good about herself and she probably had a lot of crappy relationships that didn’t help her esteem. She tends to rely on others opinions of her whilst protesting that she cares. I know this type well.
But, hey, she’s done some good shyt lately and I can’t argue with some of her points.
Women need to support each other. Absolutely. Unless…said woman is an azzhole and then she can “support” right off.
“To me, “hotness” is an aura, a vibe.”
I agree with this. I think people also turn it on and off at will, depending on how “on” they feel.
Totally agree about it being turned “on” or “off”…Marilyn Monroe used to say she could.
I’ve seen it on myself personally and friends.
When I try too hard or am caught up in my looks that day, It’s like I’m invisible almost. I think desperation is repelling vibe-wise.
There’s something about not caring what others think yet still feeling good about yourself that I truly believes draws people toward you. Both sexes, and not just in wanting to hook-up but friendships, too.
I had a friend who tried so hard and her day would be ruined if someone didn’t pay attention to her but she couldn’t see it had nothing to do with her looks, she was conventionally pretty, it was her energy. It’s uncanny how often it’s proven true, too.
Absolutely agree.
I feel like she’s trying too hard (not sure for what) with those statements.
And personally I don’t live in a state of constant fear of violence (I feel that so many people say these days that all women are always afraid of every single male they encounter at every single moment and that’s not my experience).
It’s different types of “hurt.” Which one is worse, I don’t know, but both are real.
I think “unattractive” women get the hurt of being invisible or irrelevant. “Hot” women get the hurt of negative attention from both men and women. As someone perceived as “hot” I have had constant and awful untrue rumors spread about me most of my life. It was very hard making female friends, especially when I was younger. I dread working with men, and almost everyone in my field is male, because they will almost always make an inappropriate pass at me. But it would be stupid to deny that being hot is without its advantages. I think I have been given a lot of access in my life because of my looks.
I think Amy is right in that most women are judged through a lens of “sexuality.” If you aren’t attractive, then you’re not worth as much. If you are attractive, you are first and foremost a “sexual” being to men, and unfortunately to a lot of women (who view you as a sexual threat).
This is a lose-lose scenario and it sucks.
Absolutely. Its so depressing. All my life whenever I got into a relationship with anyone and was happy other men and women I knew would just chew the guy apart under the guise of caring for my well being. Honestly in retrospect I dont think it was caring at all. For the women it was jealousy and the men it was competition. Countless times I have had people tell me that my husband or other relationships were no good for me. (even though he really is!) But it eats away at your self esteem and your decisions in life. Because you start to wonder, am I crazy? Am I not seeing how horrible this match is for me? I have had friends abruptly stop speaking to me when THEY get into relationships. Which again, am I just a f*ck toy? (I was never ever sleeping with any of these men or even flirting). So you start just to close yourself off from anyone and everyone, under the assumption that everyone is just horrible. But I mostly blame our current society. Because men from my grandparents age often had female friends, they treated them with respect and as close confidants, even if they had a thing for them. Most of them were too classy to let it get in the way of being in each others lives. I think the over sexualisation of women and the permissiveness of society toward male sexual aggression and satisfaction are really screwing with a positive and healthy dynamic among human beings.
I disagree, being unattractive is way, way worse, if you consider that body language is a decisive fact for people approaching you.
It kind of seems like all women are sexualized (depending on how weird the man is). I don’t know if looks has much to do with it. You just basically have to be a woman and you’ll face it, I think.
I’ve also seen beautiful women who are seen as the whole package (admired for intelligence and beauty — i.e see Natalie Portman, that scientist from MIT who wasn’t dating Brad Pitt). I don’t really get it when people say hot people are seen in only one way.
I also think it’s easier for a conventionally hot person to make themselves unattractive if they don’t want to look good that day (for whatever reason) than a truly unattractive person to make themselves beautiful. I’m not sure there are actually that many truly ugly women in the same way that there are ugly men who look like Harvey Weinstein though. I can’t think of a female equivalent I’ve seen in Hollywood OR real life who actually looks that bad. Nonetheless, if you’re an attractive woman who wants to look ugly with clothes and make-up, it’s fairly easy to do.
I have not once been hit on by a guy, married or not, since I’ve been married and that’s going on 12 years now and I hang out with lots of married couples most all with kids my kids ages. My self esteem is really taking a hit right now….
I feel ya, but at least you are in a stable relationship with someone who is attracted to you.
I kind of get what she’s saying.
I had a friend a few years back who is really pretty, tall, thin, looks like a model. The amount of male attention she’d receive was borderline scary, and after a night out with her and some other friends where men were constantly approaching her, hitting on her, and following her, I kind of lost whatever envy I had.
I think it has more to do with the “aura”, as someone said above, than looks itself. My most chased after friends were average to cute, including men. It’s the way the person moves, and dresses, and carries him/herself. But I admit that if the woman is extremely beautiful it just adds up. My problem with Amy is that she’s the female version of the “beta” male, always dividing women in categories as a reflexion of her own insecurities. I saw the trailer of I her movie and the part where she drools over Emily’s Ratahshdowesdhfasdlfs character shows my point.
She’s still a racist a**hole, NEXT!
Some would be nice to you, sure, but often people act very creepy around super hot people. I’ve seen it happen to movie star men as well as women. Read a fanfic or watch footage from something like Comic Con and witness the “ordinary” masses crawling ALL OVER the hot actors and actresses, wanting to touch them and getting hysterical in their presence, etc…. a small bit of it may be about admiring talent, but most of it is people projecting all kinds of sexual and romantic fantasies onto above-average-looking people (who aren’t necessarily that special, they just got lucky in the genetic lottery.)
Hormones get whipped up, fans/admirers become possessive and things can turn inappropriate or scary when you’re looking at people with a loose grip on reality or prone to violence. Boundaries get crossed when people are really horny or mesmerized by beauty. She’s right though that the flip side of being “invisible” to people would be damaging too, so being somewhere between unattractive and smoking hot is actually ideal.
I can see this being a huge problem for Hollywood actors because part of their job involves objectification. But for regular hot people I think most people simply gravitate towards them in wanting to be friends with them, etc rather than acting creepy in a hysterical way. Granted, I’m sure they will be hit on by strange men, but I think that’s a problem that has to do with the men rather than how the woman looks.
I also think most people are also generally between unattractive and smoking hot rather than at either side of the extreme so I find her point a little odd to bring up in terms of how she projects how she feels about her looks on to a social issue. I guess she feels she’s the right level of attractive, but then again most people are. No one is THAT ugly and no one is THAT hot. And to be THAT hot takes a degree of effort (see J-Lo’s and Halle Berry’s Instagram. They don’t just wake up looking like that).
If it’s any consolation their looks wither and fade with time. So there is an end to their suffering.
lol!!!
I’ll admit she says things in a way that annoys me, but I totally wouldn’t want to be “super hot”, whatever that means. When I lost a lot of weight really fast, the way men reacted to me changed dramatically and I HATED it. I purposely stopped losing weight and had to go into counseling for my reaction to men in general, I was so bent out of shape.
I think both things can be true: that sexual assault and being treated inhumanely can happen no matter what you look like, AND that it’s nice not being super hot to the average person because you can fly under the radar a lot easier in life (#lifegoals).
As a young woman I tried very hard to dress modestly because I was very pretty and busty. So I went the shy route, covered up, and felt extremely uncomfortable being appreciated only for my face and big boobs. It still didn’t stop me from being sexually assaulted several times so I don’t think modesty played even a small part in protecting myself from unwanted harassment. What finally did protect me was learning to be angry at unwanted attention and nipping it in the bud. Getting angry wasn’t something women of my age group (I’m 66) were taught – it was all about “being a lady” and not stirring the pot. Well to hell with that sh*t.
Good for you. But honestly I always think of the jerk me who say thinks like “women never smile” Small wonder darling, small wonder. Why are you asking them to smile? So you can feel like you have an in? Power over them? That they dance like a dog for a treat from you? It’s so gross. I always want to ask them to “smile sweetie”
The fucking smile. The more people asked me to smile, the angrier I felt and it showed in my face. I’ve never seen a serious man being asked to smile so “his beauty would show”.
Oh my gosh, this is so important to talk about! The smile thing! So I was feeling pretty cross today about a guy who just has this habit of bothering me whenever I’m at the gym–seemingly making excuses just to do that. It’s irritating, and i finally starting to stop being the “nice girl” and act frostily towards him to get him to leave me alone.
I realized today, while looking at my own face in the gym mirror (in an effort to frown at this guy and make him leave), that I have one of those mouths that never really looks angry. it’s like I have the opposite of resting *** face. The corners of my mouth turn upwards naturally, so I always look like i’m sort of smiling or right at the edge of a smile, even when I’m trying my hardest to frown at someone and communicate my disinterest in them.
Growing up, I always had image issues, as pretty much any woman with a pulse will. I had an eating disorder (anorexia), was diagnosed with BDD. I never felt attractive, and that was part of my battle with perfectionism that led to starving myself. I still have restrictive tendencies, but anyway. It’s really hard for me to get complimented on my looks or receive what I recognize as preferential treatment because I still struggle with my self-perception. It always feels like they’re lying, but on the other hand, if I felt invisible, then I’d still come to the conclusion that I was unattractive.
This is the only thing I’ll ever agree with her on… Women get screwed over no matter what they look like or how they present themselves. Bif Naked put it this way in one of her spoken word tracks:”Being we women sucks. F*ck you!’
I was on a date last Saturday night. The guy sat down and first thing he demanded to know was, “Did you cut your hair? Your hair in this magazine photo looks different.” He was abrupt, rude and entitled. Then he showed me a photo he’s downloaded from the mag’s website. My hair was styled for a photo shoot. My hair was styled for the date, to highlight my very sexy outfit. I realised he was a donkey and asked the hostess to call me a taxi. He looked bewildered like he couldn’t believe a woman would walk out in him. Next!
Guys are nuts to begin with add in women, attractive or when who reject them -even more nuts. It’s the cold hard truth. I implore anyone to look at the hundreds of mgtow videos on youtube.
Will do. Thanks Jenna.
I am a 38-year old woman of Eastern European descent w/ features deemed aesthetically pleasing by mainstream American culture. A few years ago after a lifetime of failed attempts at cultivating lasting friendships w/ women I began to intentionally “dress down” when socializing w/ other women. Perhaps it is merely coincidence or “just in my head,” but I find women are more receptive to me when I wear no make-up, don’t run even a comb through my hair & cover my body w/ baggy clothing. It could merely be my perception, but the results are positive & consistent enough for me to catch myself doing a once-over in the mirror before leaving the house to ensure I don’t look too “hubba hubba” (as my 10-year old son puts it😣) I wish I could chalk my new found success in relationships w/ other women up to something more than my physical appearance but it happens to be true. Thank you to Amy & all the women here who bravely expressed their negative experiences of being an “attractive” woman. It is something I have never felt permission to discuss before now.
I appreciate your honesty, Nat! I’m not sure if you saw my comments above, but I’ve had similar experiences with women–I also hesitated to write this stuff in a comment because I feared backlash.
We’re a similar age. If we were in the same town, would be your friend, no matter what you wore!
Thanks @FLEUR ! I’ll keep a non-creeper eye out for you in Detroit!
If you’re attractive, you have the choice to make yourself less attractive.
If you’re not attractive, there’s much less of a chance you can make yourself over into beautiful (even with the most expensive hair and make-up and plastic surgery.) See Tori spelling.
So, if given the choice, I’d pick the former.
I’m old and fat now but when I was younger – 16 through to about 37 – I was considered very pretty to beautiful as I had naturally blonde hair, tanned skin, very big bust and small waist and petite arms and legs.
Going out was borderline horrific. Traffic would slow down, car horns tooting, men trying to grope me, blah blah blah. Its real people. And I was just garden variety beach girl pretty. I cant imagine what the really hot women have to put up with.
Basically being a woman sucks. Now Im in my mid 40’s I hardly ever get attention any more and sometimes I feel like telling people “I really was beautiful once!’ But why bother? You just come off as sad and tragic and living in the past ha ha
Its a double edged sword, beauty.
This is a real thing. It’s profoundly obnoxious to whine about, but it is genuinely hard to date as someone way on the end of the attractiveness spectrum. I can never tell when men like my personality; my appearance is all they focus on. It’s made me really insecure about my worth as a human, because I could be a vapid horror for all I know, and people would still suck up to me.
On balance I’d probably rather be less attractive than I am, but it’s not as simple as dressing down. I get harassed much more (and in much scarier ways) when I dress frumpily because I think men perceive me as more vulnerable.
I’d rather be less attractive–but not unattractive! The malice I see directed at women who are perceived as ugly is deeply frightening, and I’m sure what I see is only a tiny piece of it.
TL;DR The world is cruel. Beauty is a shield you can hide behind, for better and for worse.
@MEAGLE “Dressing down” does make a woman more vulnerable in many respects. There’s a reason women refer to make-up as “war paint.”
It’s so interesting reading all these comments … it’s amazing really. I’m probably a bit older than most of you commenting here. I’m a white Aussie woman who is symmetrically attractive and people seem to think I’m ‘traditionally beautiful’. I guess because of my chipper personality, my parents, from a very young age, instilled in me a firm belief that your brain and personality is what gets you through life. I remember my dad telling me that looks fade and it’s how you communicate with people that gives you longevity in your path. Jesus, he must have been worried cos I was a real smart arse! I’ve never traded on my looks, even though I understand what white privilege really means in this country. I’ve worked with refugees teaching ESL and worked with first offender teenage boys getting them back into the school system. Believe me, there’s a horrible class system in Aus. In my 20’s I was labelled ‘beach blonde’, ‘dumb blonde’ etc etc. I wasn’t taken seriously when I was studying at the Conservatorium of Music. Told I’d be much hotter if I had some boobs, yes, ‘boobs!! WTF I’ve cut all my hair off, dressed androgynously, dyed it darker … done so many things to be taken seriously. I’m smart, I run my own business and have enjoyed getting older because it’s so much more exciting to be taken seriously. I got very sick just before I turned 30, and the experience changed me completely. It made me realise my purpose, goals, deleting frenemies and those who didn’t really see me for what I am. I was very lonely for quite a while, but there’s nothing lonelier than being surrounded by people who don’t have your best interests at heart. I could go on and on but I’ve always seen myself as boring looking. Living in different parts of the world I’ve always been in awe of women who look different. One of the most beautiful women I’ve ever met was a ladyboy in Thailand. For me beauty is in the eye of the beholder. People’s vibe and energy can be intoxicating. People’s brains and conversation are paramount … just ask my husband! When I first met him my first thought was ‘I want to f%&k his brain’!
I believe what she says about attractive women having more trouble. I am not trying to brag here but I’m a very attractive woman and am still single at 36. It seems like the men I get to know “act” interested in me but usually the conversation ends up sexualizing me by commenting on how hot I am and so and so.
The last guy I dated kept saying when he was at work he couldn’t stop thinking about me and had to constantly go “relieve himself”. Really nice guys are shy and intimidated to approach me. I had a guy literally scurry out of my way out of a drug store the other day like he was afraid of me!
I’m honestly an extremely nice person and I would never be rude to someone who asked me out. It frustrates me because there is more to me than my looks and a lot of people I know don’t seem to have the same kind of trouble or not the same experiences.
I also believe Amy when she says a man can’t handle it. I have a theory that super good looking men don’t want a women better looking than them. And yell at me all you want but I always see super hot guys with average looking girls. Which I guess maybe could also mean they aren’t shallow- however, it’s worth noting.
If you don’t want to be single, then I am sorry to hear that it’s frustrating for you to have a meaningful partnership. I think you should enjoy being beautiful in a physical and intrapersonal sense. There is no need for you to choose between the two. Beauty is your armour and your character helps to filter out people who don’t mean well. If anything, being beautiful helps you to filter out people faster. Please see it as a blessing, and change up some things, like the way you meet people and perhaps things will work out better for you. Best of luck.