This isn’t really a “pre-Oscar event” but we finally got the photos in, so I thought we should discuss it. As it turns out, Kim Kardashian really was accosted by a “comedian” wearing blackface at the Vienna Opera Ball. Like, she was telling the truth and there are photos to prove it. Does that make me feel differently about Kim? I mean, she was still at the Opera Ball as an escort, because she was getting paid $500,000 by Richard Lugner. So, it’s not all “poor Kim.” But I think we can give her a pass on freaking out when a comedian in blackface came up to her and started screaming that he was Kanye West. THAT is extremely offensive.
We have all of these photos now from the Opera Ball, and it seems like “comedian Chris Stephan” wore blackface to the ball and posed for photos and everything. According to TMZ, Chris has already issued an apology on his Facebook. TMZ says: “Chris Stephan — a stand-up comedian in Austria — just posted the apology on his Facebook, saying he’s ‘incredibly sorry’ things unfolded the way they did. He says he’s of Arab descent himself, and never intended to be racist.” Wow, Austria has “accidental racists” too.
Oh, and here’s the moment (THIS WAS ON CAMERA) when some dude “joked” that he was going to dance when they played “N—gas in Vienna”. As in, he actually dropped the n-word in front of Kim and Kris Jenner. Lucifer’s Homegirl laughs like it’s funny but Kim’s Botox-face is all “Jesus take the wheel.”
Why was this event such a catastrophe? Even people who loathe the Kardashians have to admit that this is nowhere near Kim’s fault. It’s like all of these people were like, “OMG, she’s engaged to a black guy, let’s be crazy-racist about it, for jokes.”
Also: Lucifer’s Homegirl is incredibly smug in these photos. It’s like she thinks SHE is getting $500,000 to be an escort. Either that or she’s so proud that she raised a daughter worth $500,000 for a night. And as I see more angles on Kim’s dress, I hate it even more. Kim needs to learn how to wear clothes in her real size.
Photos courtesy of Fame/Flynet.
That Iron Cross dress is a pretty big cultural gaffe as well, no?
Why are the Kardashians attending an event like this anyway? Oh yeah, $500,000. promotional appearance fee.
Idky why she even went. Maybe she was ignoring the fine print that an escort is supposed to sleep with the escortee because her eyes were on the money? And that’s why he was trash talking her to the press. Actually, now that I think about it, I kinda like that she took the money and paid him no mind. Don’t hate the player, hate the game! At least one billionaire pimp didn’t have his way.
I do not think that an escort is actually supposed to sleep with the escortee. I guess many do, but that is their own decision and should not be part of the contract. But of course, escort could mean anything.
This is no different than when Kim does an appearance at a Las Vegas club. She’s not a victim.
“Escort” doesn’t mean sex partner it means she appears with him as his date. He’s been doing this for years to promote him shopping malls. He was trash talking her to the press because she was blowing him and his schedule of to film KWUNK.
I’m never going to defend blackface and racist terms.
@ The Original G
When she gets paid to show up at a club (which I believe she barely does anymore out of lack of interest by promoters) she would just show up with her friends and sit in the corner and take pics. This was not the case in Vienna, she was paid to be an old man’s date for the night. He paid for her time. She shouldn’t have blown him off to go film for her show or eat at a restaurant with her mom. I wonder if she’ll still get paid the full amount. This old man is disgusting, paying women to spend time with him…hey man go give that money to charity instead !
@word, I agree with you
As I said yesterday, she should have done her research and having accepted this job, do her job.
The escorts hired from online sites are the ones who sleep with their dates. Kim was there strictly as his date. Apparently Kris wanted her cut of the money so she chaperoned her 32 yr old daughter.
Didnt Kanye write that song in the first place?!!!? He use disgusting words in his lyrics!
Remember when Gwyneth went to a Jay-Z/Kanye concert a year or two ago and tweeted the “n” word (in reference to their song)?
Most recently, Madonna tweeted the “n” word in reference to her white son. She received backlash.
Black face is unacceptable. It is not acceptable to pretend to be another race for laughs. That should be obvious. Rudely impersonating her fiancé is… well, rude. The only thing I can understand is the “nîggers in Vienna” as an attempted (poor) play on Kanye’s album title of “Nîggas in Paris”. In all honesty, he likely doesn’t know the difference between nîgga and nîgger for an American since English isn’t the first language in Austria and they certainly don’t live by American codes of conduct, but rather Austrian ones.
I can’t stand Kim Kardashian, but I certainly don’t think racism should be overlooked and I would have left as well. So, good on her for standing by her morals (at SOME point). As for Kanye, if you don’t want people SAYING the title of your album… title it something else.
All he did was change the name of the city in the song title. It isn’t something I would say myself, but then again I would never name a song that in the first place. Don’t write it if you feel uncomfortable with people saying it back to you or the ones you love.
The blackface thing is another story. That was incredibly wrong, but what did she think she was signing up for? She was a tacky man’s prop for the night.
Agreed. I get it, American had a MAJOR case of slavery tied to racism, but a lot of Europeans as a whole didn’t grow up with that specific cultural burden. Sure, we are aware of it, and even know it was practiced in colonies Europeans held, but no cultural/historical guilt over it. So yea, it does get tiring for a lot of Europeans. Americans don’t share the burden of the old European wars… even if some descend from people that used to be Europeans. Sure, it’s wrong, but it’s nothing compared to some of the far more horrible things that have been done through the centuries. You know…murder through hunger, summary executions, ethnic cleansing, things like that.
It’s as ridiculous as calling “african american” a race. I’d very much like to know how they differ from other black people that have the same ethnic origin, but were born in Africa and/or live in Africa instead of the US. Should we call the ones in Africa as “african americans” also? Aren’t they the same race? How about the various sub races among black people? Sorry but this really grates my nerves.
As far as the n-word, of course it’s wrong, but frankly it’s also about time black people stop using it themselves. In whichever form or variant. Either it’s an ok word or it’s not. And I vote for “not”.
@CC
It’s funny how you said blacks should stop using it first as if ALL Black people use the word. Let me enlighten you on the fact that MOST African-Americans do NOT use that word. Sure mainstream media has cherry picked the most ignorant dregs of scum from our community to give a platform but they do Not represent the majority.
Furthermore, even if some ignorant Flava Flav looking rapper says it does not give a pass to every low-key hateful Caucasian to freely toss that word around as if it’s cute. Don’t play ignorant. You know it’s the same way you can say something mean about your family member but would get pissed if an outsider tradhed your family.
And we call ourselves African-American because we are genetically and spiritually changed due to the slave trade unlike Africans who know what tribes they come from, speak their native ancestral tongue, etc. Btw, by your logic Slavery was not something “Americans” did. If you look at history you would know the slave trade was started by the Portugese, furthered by the Spainiards and exploited by the French and English, etc. Early American colonists still had accents and weren’t from America. Real Americans are called Native Americans so try again. It was Europeans who stole, raped, sold, enslaved and profitted from Slavery.
If you don’t want to seperate African Americans as a group from Africans then I suggest you apply that same thinking to “Europeans” who resides in the Americas. LMAO at you trying to separate White Americans from White Europeans and in the same paragraph being puzzled that Black Americans do the same in regards to Black Africans.
Aren’t White Americans and White Europeans the same race? Why do you try to seperate them?
*BOOM* That’s what we call a “knowledge bomb”!
Let me help you with the whole “n-word” situation, CC. MOST black people find it offensive and do not use the word. That word offends me to my core and that whole “well, they use it” argument is just tired. I don’t care that Kanye titled his song “N***as in Paris”, that isn’t and shouldn’t be considered the go ahead for anyone else to use the word. Given the history of the word, I boggles my mind that people would even CONSIDER that.
@history 101, you are mistaken Sarahtk. The slave trade initially began guess where? Africa. I was surprised at this information in my college US History class. Africans sold their own countrymen as slaves for profit, and used some of their countrymen for their own person slaves.
@moi
who did they sell them to then? who profited the most, who transported them and who kept them enslaved going forward? people in dire conditions are prone to doing horrible things. that shouldn’t be excused, but it also shouldn’t be exploited for personal gain. do not try to twist that to help support your prejudices.
@CC,
Your “slavery wasn’t really *that* bad, what’s the big deal, people?” attitude to be both cavalier and uninformed. American slavery included all the violence you mentioned and more, including starvation, murder and other unsanctioned executions, rape/forced breeding (and the consequent separation of families), physical–all through the lens of race and FOR MORE THAN 200 YEARS. You seem to think that enslaved people were treated as the hired help. I personally do not see any value in comparing historical atrocities, but since you do, you should at least know what you’re talking about.
PS. Thanks Sarah for the very thoughtful and on-point response to so many of the other problems with CC’s post.
I don’t care who started this or that slavery, because humans slaved other humans and they’re still doing it these days, those ones who bought, used and punished slaves were part of it, they are no better.
By the way, there are no pure races, people has always been mixed, there were different tribes in European, people always migrated, the different empires have mixed people in the past, Roman Empire, Russian Empire, etc. In Africa there are different tribes and people with different traits, for example, see that old conflict in Rwanda. Sadly, in USA, which has more influence with their media, it has simplified all to being white or black.
CB should also mention that the guy saying the n-word in Vienna was also making a joke to Kanye’s song N in Paris (or whatever it’s called). Blackface isn’t a big deal in Europe as it is here. That said, still pretty damn tasteless to dress up that way and make that joke. But I’ll cry foul over the apparent racist 18 year old in California over this. Still foul but different cultures and an obvious play on a joke- no matter how not funny it was.
Yeah, Oliver Pocher is know to be a crass and polarizing comedian. He made a comment about “N*ggas in Paris” – a popular Kanye & Jay-Z song. The same song Kanye & Jay-Z WERE PERFORMING on the 2011 Victoria’s Secret catwalk:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gUfWqyR9H9s
And that’s what Pocher was referring to when he said “Yeah, ich werde tanzen (I will dance). Yes, we gonna dance later. We are waiting for ‘N*ggas in Vienna’.”
He was making a cheap joke about Kayne’s profession as a rapper – not about Kanye as a black person. That’s how I take it. He is not known to be a racist. We don’t take kindly towards that in Germany. If any tendencies like that were known he would lose his career immediately.
After reading comments about racism from Europeans on different sites, they don’t get what is wrong. On the other hand, U.S. entertainment makes a bad job with this issue, edgy TV series and comedy always have racist jokes and that’s treated like “it’s cool, if you do it”, the usage of N-word is another thing they’re doing wrong and some racists from other countries just take advantage of that situation and they use the word as they want, after all, who’s promoting it? (I’d add, I’m not talking about that guy and his jokes, because I don’t know anything about him).
Exactly – you get paid by Eurotrash, you take your chances. Kartrashian is so stupid she obviously did not know that AUSTRIA WAS HITLER’S BIRTHPLACE (“But…I thought we were in Vienna!”). Good lord, what the hell did she expect, understanding and approbation from them, a nation of Paula Deens?
All she wanted was the money, and the chance that someone might think she hangs out with rich “klassy” people in Europe. Turns out they’re just as trashy and venal as she is. Like attracts like, etc.
Kris looks like she is in orange face. I wonder if any Oompa Loompas are offended?
Lol….that’s freaking funny
😂 @ Michelle
Nasty, stupid people.
So I am Austrian, from Vienna. (:
1. I never heard about “blackfacing” before it was mentioned here on Celebitchy. If you go to this site: http://www.wien-vienna.at/feiertage.php?ID=1316 , you will find infos (in German) promoting the city of Vienna and Austrian traditions. One of these – still very popular – traditions is the “Sternsingen” around the 6th of January, where children are dressing up as the “3 Holy Kings” and collecting money (a lot) for a good cause. As you can see in the pics, one of the 3 kings is always in blackface. No-one in Austria would consider this racist. I saw comedian Chris Stephan’s apology on the Austrian TV station he is working for (Puls 4) and he seemed genuinely surprised by the backlash. He also said he should have made a better research before-hand. Just like Kim’s entourage should have – when it comes to the Iron Cross on her dress …
2. Oliver Pocher – the German comedian – who made the “N**** in Vienna” reference, is well known in the German speaking countries for his notorious behavior. Here is his Wikipedia page (sorry, only in German) – the ongoing scandal is already there: http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oliver_Pocher#Skandale
He already faced several law suits. He once insulted Mariah Carey and – accidentally – spat water on her on a German TV-show. He was fully aware of what he was doing when approaching Kim – he actually mentioned it before-hand. Any publicity is good publicity… So he and Kim are a match made in heaven. 🙂
Anyways, this incident triggered some discussion on racism in Austria and Germany…which is a big problem here in Austria…but not in the context of blackfacing…
I used to live in the beautiful city of Vienna. Wonderful place, but not at all what you would call diverse.
Of course blackface was common in Germany/Austria historically. The ” we don’t do that here” seems like something apologists throw out there. Not that there aren’t big issues surrounding racism in the US, but the ostrich in the sand approach that some folks in some European countries take makes no sense either. Racism happens everywhere, and to pretend like it doesn’t solve anything.
It was and is part of the history in Germany, Austria, the Netherlands etc etc.
https://www.vocativ.com/02-2014/blackface-big-germany/
http://jezebel.com/germany-has-a-blackface-problem-1522224558
There are a few European countries which are considered to have a problem with racism. Austria is one of them and about 10 years ago it was so bad that EU was actually considering serious measures. Heider government for who remembers.
My personal experience: as a student I traveled with a group of two other girls to Viena for a weekend. One of them Russian origin with a very Slavic face. Gorgeous but typically slavic. I witnessed that weekend racism as I could never imagine and which made me understand at least a little bit what African – Americans go through: immediate dismissal based on someone’s appearance. I heard many stories about Austria being racist but of course, believed that I need to experience it to agree. And boy, did I ever.
I swore never to return and I never did.
Is blackface offensive when used in countries who never had any slavery or any issues with black people? My country never had slavery, never had immigrants of other races and prior to coming on this site, I’ve never heard of blackface. During the carnival, I know people who put on a blackface, but they never meant to be offensive because that is not offensive here. Maybe it’s similar in Austria.
So maybe, that was a misunderstanding, not racism.
Where are you? (Are you on Earth? Heh.)
Hi there Sonja!
I suppose the question you’re asking is up for some debate. The primary reason why it’s so offensive in the States in particular is the painful cultural baggage associated with it here. I know it was popular abroad as well, though arguably not to as significant of a degree. The history of it is ugly and there aren’t many instances when it isn’t used directly to ridicule or subhumanize. Even those instances where sympathetic portrayals of blacks/slaves were attempted (see the 1927 silent film adaptation of “Uncle Tom’s Cabin”, which was technically very progressive for its time), the portrayals still played on aggressive caricatures and stereotyping, as well as on the belief at the time that actually hiring black actors would alienate white audiences. The issue gets more tangled as black performers who did eventually make it on stage and screen continued to portray these stereotypes and even had to perform in blackface themselves in the early days – not because they thought it was OK so much as it was their only option if they wanted to work. There was, to be fair, some progressive satire that developed in spite of it. In any case, it’s impossible to untangle the imagery from racism and bigotry – at least amongst those who understand our history. It’s a major symbol of socially acceptable oppression and mockery that carries heavy meaning and pain into the present day.
But you do ask a fair question. I’m black, my descendants are slaves and civil rights activists. Obviously my view of blackface is going to be affected by that. But at the end of the day cultural baggage is different. I absolutely know it’s possible that people not indoctrinated don’t INTEND to be racist. Personally, I try to be more understanding of instances of racist imagery when it comes from those who have little exposure and therefore not much context to understand what it means to the people affected by it. I don’t like it, I want them to know better, but I logically understand why they might not actually know better because they’re so disconnected from the issue even in this information age. I mean, the portrayals only became taboo here in America post-Civil Rights movement. If your culture wasn’t a part of that, I guess I have to be a little patient and understanding when it comes to not getting the memo or understanding its significance.
But on a global level? It’s incredibly frustrating why people don’t bother to check in with history or the people that matter. Ultimately a non-black perspective that blackface is totally fine and everyone is overreacting (not your personal point, I’m aware) is simply not as valuable as checking in with the people directly affected by the portrayal. I do think you’re right that many don’t have bad intentions. But I do think that a lot of everyday racism comes from uninformed people who then get defensive and defiant when the implications of their behavior are pointed out to them. When they try to dismiss the concerns as though their POV is automatically superior, then there’s a problem. And that’s usually the defensive stance of those who defend blackface.
Wow,so disrespectful and rude!
Great. So now this shallow moron gets to be a martyr who’s overcome prejudice and intolerance? FFS! Do we know for certain that PMK didn’t hire that guy?
I don’t believe a word that comes out of the mouth of a woman whose boyfriend deemed her wife worthy after he impregnated her mouth! She’s a cheap, skanky whore. She deserves everything she got plus more! I bet Anna Wintour is rolling in the floor laughing!
Whoa. That’s a little much.
There’s video evidence of someone using a racial slur and photographs of the man in blackface. You don’t have to “believe” a word as she didn’t say any…we’re reading reports on the event and seeing photographic evidence. As for the Kimye relationship, whatever, they look happy, love each other, have a baby, and want to marry. There’s way worse things than that. I have a bigger issue with someone so obviously self-hating and insecure raising a daughter probably the same way her mother raised her (and look how that turned out) than I do with their decisions as a couple.
That said…I’m inclined to give those offenders a pass. Kim has EVERY right to be pissed off- she’s American, she’s engaged to a black man, and everything those people did is disgustingly offensive and I wouldn’t put up with it either. That said, both seem to be shock comedians from a country with different social customs. They probably didn’t know it would go over like a lead balloon. I’m sure they’ll think twice now before pulling that crap, and we have the opportunity to educate folks in other countries about our cultural history in the US and why some things are painful or inappropriate.
Kartrashian PR people – that you?
Sorry; being “an American” means squat in other countries. And for her to be “offended” and “shocked” by the behavior of people from another country, one which has traditionally been racist, anti-Semitic and intolerant (ie, HITLER’S BIRTHPLACE), is both laughable and disingenuous.
But you’re right: Kim is such an innocent, tender flower! Those Austrian meanies! So rude to someone who was trustingly taking hundreds of thousands of dollars to parade around in public for some known Eurotrash. Poor little thing.
If anything her being an American gives her grounds to be ridiculed and made fun of even more.
Because bigotry is ok when it’s someone else’s country, Dommy?
I loathe the Kardashians, but I loathe bigotry even more, as well as those who support bigotry. Against ANYONE.
Geyfeylich…cmc has posted on this board for years. Absent that, she has a right to her opinion just like you have a right to yours. Don’t be rude.
Kim isn’t so innocent herself. She has claimed she would never date a man who wasn’t “Christian” because her father wouldn’t approve. Even when her and Kourtney made an on-line profile for Khloe on a dating site (fake for the show of course), Kim said “the guy has to be Christian, only Christian”. So isn’t that being intolerant or prejudice? She also got backlash when she said “all Indian food is disgusting”…well has she tried ALL Indian food to be able to say that? Nope. She just seems very uneducated, which is sad considering she went to a rich private school with very expensive tuition. But then again Paris Hilton was videotaped saying the “n” word years ago, anyone remember that? It barely got any media attention for some reason.
So, Its’s ok to do terrible, insulting things to people as long you you judge to be bad? Regardless of what petty reasons you want to give you’re advocating hate and racism as long as it’s directed at someone you don’t like.
Wow.
Yep…and she was paid very well to do a job of being this guy’s date for the night. So let’s say she was doing a REAL job, like as a cashier or bank teller. A random guy who has nothing to do with who she’s employed by comes in and makes a rude, insulting or racist comment to her. Would it be acceptable if she stormed out but still expected to get paid for the rest of the day, as well as not get written up or fired??? None of it had anything to do with her date Bad Grandpa. She was just trying to find an excuse to bail. So she needs to return the money or not expect it.
On another note, he should have hired Winona Ryder instead. Then she could afford to spend more than $10 on a dress for the Oscars.
My guess, it’s like the billionaires that hire LiLo, mostly just competing to see who can land the kitschiest date – except that LiLo’s Johns are paying for more than just an appearance, but it’s a game to them all the same.
As I understand it, this *comedian* guy actually said, “n***er,” not *n***ah,” which is even worse.
Is it just me, or is PMK looking more & more like the Joker these days, courtesy of all the face work?
As far as I’m concerned there is no difference between an “er” or “ah” it’s the motivation behind the word that matters. I wish both versions would disappear
+10000000
This new idea that “ah” is less offensive, is…well…kind of offensive.
Agreed. Plus, it seems silly to expect those for whom English isn’t their first language or those people who aren’t immersed in American culture to know that such a difference in pronunciation exists.
Exactly! There is no difference.
I said “even *more* offensive,” because unfortunately we become used to hearing rappers use the “ah” and “az” forms, but NEVER the “er” form that Oliver Pocher used, so it was especially shocking and offensive ( and he DOES know better, he just makes it his trademark to be offensive). Of course ANY form of the term is completely unacceptable, especially coming from a white dude. I wish no one, black or white, would use any form of the word because it calls up shameful and painful things. But what I was trying to point out is that Pocher used the oldest and to many minds the very most clearly and intentionally racist form, so his intentions seem pretty clear, no matter what his nationality. I think he knew exactly what he was doing.
I cannot believe I’m going to defend Oliver Pocher (I loathe him, his “humor” is bottom of the barrel horrible) but no way he knows the difference between the two or knows how to even pronounce the word two different ways. As for intention … I have no idea but I would bet my car that he doesn’t fully understand the meaning of the word in American culture. Not entirely. Mind you, it’s an unacceptable term in German as well but for different reasons and it certainly doesn’t come with the same implications and the same weight.
Now I really loathe him for making me defend him even a little bit. Ugh. He needs to disappear from TV.
What I don’t think anyone outside of Germany/Austria understands is just how TACKY this Lugner guy is and how underpaid KK was. Yes, I said it. The man is disgusting and this is completely below her (I know) even if it’s only based on who she’s dating. Gawd, the things they do for a little cash.
Lol, Littlemissnaughty, I think we’re all getting a little defensive here, each for our own private or not so private reasons. I’ll say right out, and maybe should have said before, my family is a bi-racial family–my daughter is of mixed race, her fiancé is African American, and when we have parties or family holiday meals, by far most of the family in our house are black. Since my daughter has rap and hiphop music playing all day long and I buy a certain amount of it myself, the term in question (which I DESPISE) is heard in the music and even often bandied about by some of the younger black males in our extended family. This has been discussed a lot, and I am always on the side of it being offensive no matter who says it, although it has to be acknowledged that it’s just all the more offensive when a white person says it. The different forms of that one word have also been discussed, and some in the family feel that in the context of black music it is okay, and the “ah” ending even robs the word of its power to hurt; others (including me) think that putting it out there in any sort of way desensitizes people to it, and that makes offensive incidents like the one with Pocher more possible. I don’t know him, only his reputation for stirring up sh*t, so I’ll withdraw my judgment. I just have a sensitive spot about anyone using any iteration of that word for any reason. And I remain firm in my feeling that of the three forms, all of which are horribly offensive, the “er” one is simply worse for a number of historical reasons, especially when uttered by a white person. That’s all I’ve got.
Don’t you dare insult one of my favorite comic villains with that comparison.
Ah, the Joker thing? I humbly apologize , Dommy Dearest. It even bothered me to say it. 😉
She drags her baby halfway across the world to be a paid escort with her pimp mother tagging along, and this group of bottom feeders think the only problem with all of this is a man in blackface? This whole thing is cheap, degrading, and just plain sleazy from all sides. This family reeks with desperation.
So right Dorothy although I bet the baby is at home with the nannies … per usual.
She was photographed kissing IgNori at the LAX airport. Now, whether that meant the nannies brought her there and got to baggage claim for the photo op, or she actually traveled with her child – remains to be seen.
The rudest part of all of this for me is that she got paid $500k for one night of doing nothing.
Jag – she’s made an entire career out of getting paid for doing nothing. This IS her talent.
Jag, there are pictures with North in Vienna with the guy that was paying for her to be his date.
Right. I mean, I do think both guys were idiots, no excuses, but I also find the whole paid escort scenario to be degrading and sleazy. These people are just base and disgusting.
She launched a career by being a ho. She is just going with what she knows.
I’m not going to lie, I thought she made it up because it seemed so ridiculous but alarantly it’s the truth so I kind of don’t blame her, I would have been pissed too.
I can’t muster up any emotion on this (much like Kim’s cat face). Yawn. And who cares, really?
Exactly. Her lips are looking ever more swollen every time I see them. “Oh they were swollen because I had the flu!” Balls, times 1,000. Somebody’s pants are on fire!
I’m sorry, maybe I’m cynical but I suspect Lucifer’s Homegirl had a hand in this situation. Kim has a long history of involvement with African-American guys, so why suddenly is she the victim of multiple public situations involving racism (on multiple continents, no less)? Not buying it. KUwtK is obviously barrel-scraping for “storylines” for the next season. Same with all the dirt that was leaked to TMZ about Lamar during last summer’s filming. Gotta manufacture drama somehow.
I also am hard-pressed to find sympathy for a woman, mother of a infant, who continues to jet all over the world for the lamest of rationales. She *had* to pick up a $500,000 payday to be this geezer’s guest at the Ball, as if she isn’t already stinkin’ rich? She *had* to take her mother – not even for a decent reason, like to use as a caregiver for said small child so that Kim could go party, but as her party-mate?
And she couldn’t even be bothered to wear a bloody ball gown, instead opting for the (oh-so-predictable) Frankendress that screams, “Boobs! Look at my boobs!”?
Ball season in Vienna is a magical time. You’ll see the most meticulously dressed ladies everywhere – on the street, in the metro, etc. – in stunning dresses and tiaras. If I saw Kimmy next to them in that skank-getup, I’d be laughing in her face and telling her to grab the first flight back to Los Angeles before she embarrasses herself further. She made a total ass of herself, start to finish, on this adventure.
Agree with dress comment. She is the poster child for “money can’t buy class.” It’s official, the Kardashian’s have made fools of themselves once again!
Obviously she thought she was there to be venerated and not as part of the circus act this event is.
IDK. It seems kind of “off” to me that a clear example of racism can be somehow turned around and blamed on Kim. Is she a famewhore? Absolutely. Of the highest order. But that doesn’t mean she’s not right about this one, particular, thing.
Ack – replied to the wrong comment!
@van, the problem is that when you’ve been caught faking and staging things so often, you can’t really be surprised that people would be HIGHLY skeptical that this isn’t yet another “made for television” plot point – especially given that this is the second such “incident” with Kim being the victim of racism. That first one has practically been debunked at this point, no? I mean, here’s a woman who never goes anywhere without a camera crew in tow and that time, of all times, no camera – not an E! camera, not a security camera, not a paparazzo – captured the encounter. Kind of difficult to believe.
I’m bored and happen to have KUwtK on right now. Early in the episode, Kim is lying on her bed, bellyaching about how “tired” she is (because it’s exhausting doing nothing all day?). The phone rings and it’s a call for Bruce. Kim’s voice is dripping with glee when she tells the caller that Bruce no longer lives there. After hanging up, she snickers to Khloe, “I think that’s the first call Bruce has ever gotten here.”
Kim (and Mother Satan) are ugly people, inside and out. You put ugliness out there, don’t be surprised when ugliness comes back and finds you, even if that ugliness is nothing more than people refusing to fall for your crybabying about people being mean to you. They’ve given us far too much reason to be skeptical of *everything* that happens to them, and this storyline of “Kim as the victim of racism” just isn’t fooling me.
Very well said.
This ball proudly invites a man who publically pays c-list celebs 500,000 to be an escort. And it invited a guy who does blackface. Don’t pretend these Vienna ball people aren’t tacky, too. I’d rather chew my own face of than try to impress such “magical” people.
@Jackie, I’m speaking of ball season in general. Vienna in mid-to-late February is filled with special events. Like I said, it’s a magical time to be there.
And now that I see your edit, I can tell you’ve never had the pleasure of being in Vienna in February. Hopefully someday you’ll get there and see what I mean.
Vienna is beautiful all year round, not just in February.
I’m sure Vienna is lovely, but this ball is obviously sad and tacky. Or “this ball is gauche”, if you so prefer to be coddled.
I live in Vienna – and true, it is a pretty city (I would not go as far as to say magical). Ball season is just an excuse for the douchiest Viennese to try to out douche each other……the people here are so focused on titles and pedigrees they have no idea how ridiculous they look (even to other Austrians who don’t live in Vienna). However, you are warned when you enter the city there’s a sign that says “Wien ist anders” (Vienna is different). One further thing – they are far less PC than we are in N. America……they have desserts called “n***** kuss” and “mohr im hemd” and at Aida (a common bakery) during fasching (carnival/ball season) they make little character cakes and one is of a black person with big round red lips – every year when I see them in the shop window I am shocked that they can, and still do, that year after year……and that people buy them for their children. Oh how I need a break from this city.
I hope choking down the racist insults and the fact the world knows you’re pimping your daughter was worth it for Lucifer’s Homegirl while she’s spending that 500k.
It’s well established that Kanye West is bat-shit insane, but I can’t believe he was okay with Kim being a paid escort.
She was there as a very well paid escort for a rich old man. Maybe she should have seen the flaw in the plan there instead of what the comedian did but she obviously didn’t.
Apparently neither her mother nor fiance saw it either so, yeah – no sympathy as she cashes that check.
As a wise man once said … “pimpin’ ain’t easy”.
I am sorry for being ignorant european, but I did not know what blackface was before some people in this site discussed about it once. I mean I knew of course that stereotypical costumes and for excample big lips are offensive. But I would have said this is just a costume where the skin color just is so you know who he is pretending to be, and not an attempt of making fun of somebody. But I guess blackface is always offensive?
Chinoiserie, yes, it’s seen as making a belittling stereotype at the expense of black people.
It’s always offensive. Also, it’s crazy to me in a day and age with the internet and youtube and 24/7 news feed, and unlimited historical knowledge readily available on the web that people in Europe don’t know blackface is offensive. I don’t get it, but I believe you. There are some Americans who don’t know (or don’t care) that blackface is offensive.
Isn’t the iron cross dress “accidentally racist” too?
I mean, if an austrian comedian is supposed to know about “blackface” being offensive, isn’t an american whatever-her-job-is supposed to know about Adolf Hitler or WWII?
Yes.
Ivy, In my opinion (can’t speak for anyone else), the “iron cross dress” is as offensive as someone wearing a “cross” necklace (i.e., not at all). Personally, I don’t think her dress looks like a cross.
@ Ivy – yes Kim or her stylist should have known that. For all we know, Kim wore that dress on purpose for pr. Don’t put anything past a Kardashian, especially when ratings are down.
@vangroovey Well that’s the first thing I noticed. I don’t know much about “blackface”, but I know enough about WWII to find her dress inappropriate.
@idk her job as an escort, her dress, this guy paying younger women to escort him every year, the comedian… Everything that night was more or less offensive ^.^ Regarding Europeans lack of knowledge about “blackface”, sadly we don’t know much about African American history. I’ve learned what “blackface” is when I heard Spike Lee discussed it in an interview when I was a teenager. Sad but true. I have to admit “worlwide history” was very “white” when I was in school… I hope it’s different now, but I doubt it :/
While racism is universal, the black experience in the US is unique. We Americans expect every other country to be fully up to date on our experiences, and yet many of us can’t repeat basic European history.
I will never in a million years defend racism, and if this fool was American I would be comfortable calling him out. I watched a competitive reality show called The Challenge. Two young women (in their early 20’s) were goofing around (drunk) and dressed up to mimic a black male/white female couple from the show. As one woman put black face on the other she asked, “Are you sure this isn’t racist?”, the other woman reassured her it wasn’t. Every other person on that show (Americans) immediately verbally attacked these two and off they went in tears.
This was the interesting part – the girl who was unsure if it was racist was American, but raised in a reclusive cult. The girl who reassured her that it wasn’t racist was Brazilian. The two girls were crushed and immediately apologetic without attempting to defend themselves. It’s easy to call them stupid and insensitive. But I really believe it was pure ignorance.
BTW, I called out Julianne Hough when she used blackface. She particularly offended me because her religion has a history of particular racism against dark skinned people (cursed with the mark of Cain).
Plenty of American’s are ignorant of European history, just as plenty of Europeans are ignorant of American history. There is also the fact that for most European’s english is at best a 2nd if not 3rd language, unless a European has spent some time immersed in Anglo-American culture/history they wouldn’t necessarily know how offensive (and racist) blackface is.
As for the “Iron Cross” how is this racist? The German army still use the Iron Cross to this day as it’s emblem, as do the German Air Force. The symbol has been used by German militaries since at least 1813.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/2/24/Leopard_2_A5_der_Bundeswehr.jpg/640px-Leopard_2_A5_der_Bundeswehr.jpg
http://img.planespotters.net/photo/144000/original/PlanespottersNet_144153.jpg
@vangroovey, the Iron Cross was a symbol of Hitler’s Third Reich military. The comparison isn’t being made to a piece of religious or fashion jewelry.
It is still used but has been modified to differentiate itself from the Nazi era.
The Iron Cross is no Nazi symbol!
It was and still is a german military award, originally from the time when Germany was still a monarchy (Prussia anyone?). That was before Hitler! Yes surprise surprise Germany, Austria (and every other european country) had a history before Hitler! It´s not all about Hitler! Yes, this may surprise some people! Surprise!
The swastika isn’t only a nazi symbol but I wouldn’t wear it in Germany. That’s just common sense.
You can’t just ignore the link between Hitler and those 2 crosses. Wearing them in Europe my expose you to harsh reactions. That’s a fact and there are reasons for that.
I’m sorry… but in Europe blackface is really not offensive and is never done in an offensive way… We celebrate Carnival, one year I dressed up as a black person, another year as a Chinese, another year as a pirate, Once I even dressed up as a rabbit, and so on… Culturally, Europe is very different from the US, and I’m sorry to say this, but Americans expect us to know all their History, but most of them don’t even know the names of the European countries, let alone their culture…
He’s just a comediant, maybe it was a bad taste joke, but I’m pretty sure it wasn’t meant to be offensive… So calm down…
I am from the U.S. and in this case see the situation as you do. He is a comedian and apparently dresses up every year as someone close to the escort. Of course he would either be her mother or her fiance. Her mother was with her, so the fiance was the obvious choice. As you said, he changed his skin color to be closer to the person whom he was imitating; It wasn’t meant to be offensive.
Well, Kim posed as Diana Ross and and there was no outcry.
@dagdag, in black face?
Kim didn’t do blackface, that is why it was not as offensive. As far as the stance that the comic was just “trying to imitate” Kanye and it wasn’t offensive — that is casual racism, because it’s making excuses for racist behavior. I don’t understand why it’s so hard for some people to grasp the concept that — at the very LEAST, if you can’t wrap your head around the nuances of racism — using the “n-word” and dressing is blackface is just something you don’t do anymore if you don’t want to be a racist.
@Kiddo
I do not know. Looking at the pictures, she is trying to look like a light skinned Diana Ross. Black face is really new to me.
Look at this:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-2192891/Kim-Kardashian-goes-glamour-Diana-Ross-inspired-photoshoot.html
@ dagdag
They definitely darkened Kim’s skin for those Diana Ross pics…it’s easy to see.
She totally got a pass on this. I note they’re careful to call it bronzer.
White people used to use black face in Minstrel shows, where degrading stereotypes of black people were portrayed. So in America, blackface is a painful and offensive reminder of that.
@GoodNames thanks for the simple and clear explanation. I feel as if we have this conversation all the time and people STILL don’t get it. It really is tiring.
Bkackface is offensive because it represents more than the skin tone itself – the cultural undertones are connected to minstral shows, where the white performer would wear blackface and behave as a buffoon, with the underlying commentary being that black people were little more than animals and idiots. It was an incredibly offensive piece of history and represents a cultural viewpoint tha black people were inferior and less than deserving of equal status. It would be like throwing a banana at a black person, for an example that might make more sense to a European.
But the most offensive connotation is American, as I see the comments. In other countries there is not such a sad history of slavery and separatism or races, up until the freaking 60s. That is American History and not all people round the world is aware of that.
It is totally incorrect, but it does not have the same weight aroung the world
(Never mind.)
I don’t like the Kardashians, period. But these people were nasty and stupid. They weren’t mocking Kim, they were taking aim at a black man (Kanye) who wasn’t in attendance, simply because he is a black man. I thought the Kardashians set this up, but since they didn’t, how ignorant is this? I would have had no problem if they actually mocked Kim, and there is SO MUCH material to draw from there to mock, but they went to the lowest low that they could sink to.
Why do you think ‘taking aim at a black man’ is so bad??? Remove the ‘black’. Now what have you got? I know and appreciate that America is dealing with the repercussions of a terrible and not too distant ideology. But where is the equality in this situation?
Kanye West is a loud-mouthed, vain, arrogant idiot who draws an insane amount of attention to himself intentionally, and rams his insulting opinions down everyone’s throats. This has nothing to do with skin colour. This is to do with his persona. Why the hell shouldn’t he be mocked for it??
Yes I’m European too, and perhaps we historically have less issues with racism (although that may be a naieve assumption). I’m also from a family where the next generation of children are from FOUR different backgrounds, and I would be surprised if that doesn’t expand. I consider myself to be openminded.
And for the life of me, I don’t understand how someone dressing up like the idiot that Kanye so publicly is for comedic reasons is unfair. Are you all suggesting that it would be ok to mock Kanye’s lunacy, and dress up as him but without darkening his skin colour? That would be acceptable, would it?
And many, many jokes are predicated on changing the lyrics of songs. So if that asshole writes a song called N******s in Paris, why shouldn’t someone say ‘N******s in Vienna’?
The point about the stereotype of ‘black face’ was the values it embodied. This is not someone dressing up as a character being depicted as lesser than another. This is someone dressing up as a character who loudly, very, very loudly prides himself on being better than just about everyone else on this planet!
He deserves to be mocked! (Go Seth Rogen, go anyone else who wants to give it a try!).
He deserves to be mocked for his actions. No one deserves to be mocked for their race.
But he wasn’t mocked gr his race. The comedian dressed up as Kanye, not as a black person.
The fact that…Ugh…whatever. Zadie, the comedian dressed up as Kanye West, who IS a black person. Hear me clearly…black face is offensive, regardless of intent.
Kiddo- nobody was taking aim at Kanye because he was a black man. The guy impersonated Kanye because Kanye is Kim’s fiancé and he also is a very famous rich American artist who is well known even in Vienna. The makeup was just part of the impersonation, since people actually know Kanye’s face well enough that just the costume wouldn’t be very effective. No one would likely do this in the US because of the still raw memories of minstrel shows, which were not trying to impersonate the rich and famous but rather were trying to perpetuate racist stereotypes. This impersonation was just not in the racist category
I agree with Kiddo 100%. I am taken it back by the comments here though (also I am late to the party) but to the replies if this has nothing to do with Kanye’s race then why the black makeup. If they wanted to represent Kanye the comic could have without painting his face black. I think Europe is more racist than it thinks it is. You can’t pick up a race and put it down. It is still racist.
Where’s the proof she stormed out? She stood there with a wierd smile on her face, while her mom stood there with a huge smile on her face. I guess they will edit and re-shoot scenes of her “rage” when the next season of their show comes out. This whole thing was in poor taste. From the blackface, to the old dude hiring Kim, to Kim accepting the offer and bringing her chid along. I still can’t believe Kanye was ok with Kim being an escort.
Struck me exactly the same way. He’s trying so hard to make Kim palatable to the upper-crusty Anna Wintour crowd, and then he (or she, or PMK, for that matter) can see nothing *off message* about being a hired escort? And ffs, look who her predecessors to this gig were: Pam Anderson, Lindsay Lohan (who didn’t show up), and as I understand it, even a couple of actual prostitutes once.
I bet the “escort” was finalized via an appearance contract, w/ cancellation penalties. Admittedly, one would think that they could eat any such cancellation penalties without too much probs, but never underestimate PR.
Paid appearance. Same as escort. Different connotations. I bet she is trying to become the next big thing in Europe. Hopefully the European people have some idea that she isn’t a valued US export. In fact, I’d waive all tariffs and duties, if they’d take her; and as a super special deal, we’ll include her mother as a bonus, at no extra cost.
She’s in her element. The old dude has hired high paid whores before, kim is no different. An escort is who she was before the reality fame. Apparently, not much has changed. Pmk is just glad she can still demand $500k for her prized workhorse.
Trust me, Austria has enormous issues with racism. We have a very strong extreme-right wing party here. Chris Stephan doing the blackface on the opera ball (which is by the way these days only attended by tacky people) is definitely not how Austrians express racism. At least 80 % of people here have never heard that doing blackface is problematic. However people here are very sensitive when it comes to derogatory terms used against Jews, Roma and Sinti, people from the balkan and turkish people, simply because it has been a big part of our history or is part of or society. You as Americans cannot really think your whole view of the world and what you find shocking, inappropriate or offensive applies to the whole world??? I hope that now many more Austrians get educated on this topic and start to think about it, but there was no racist underlying issue here in the first place.
+1 (I’m American)
I do agree, and I’m American, that it’s a little unfair to expect the entire world to know about our history with blackface, and that’s it’s possible no offense was intended. As you will see from the comments, there are many Americans who don’t get it. I’m not sure what their excuse is, but if they don’t know about it, I think it’s possible that people from other countries don’t either.
Well, as much as I dislike her, when you have a guest at your house, if they are vegetarian, you don’t serve meat. If you have a foreign person, isn’t it the right thing to treat them according the norms of their country of origin instead of being completely insensitive to that? I will accept, on some level, that this was just an enormous mistake, but once you are familiar with what blackface represents to black people in the context of US history, now that you know, don’t defend it, KWIM?
Agree completely.
The n-word guy definitely should’ve got the memo where it’s not okay to use that word, let alone in front of a guest. There is no place/culture where that word is accepted by the majority as innocent. It’s hard to imagine a scenario where over the age of 5 would know the word but not realise it’s offensive.
However, I don’t think blackface-guy’s offense falls into quite the same category.
I understand why blackface is seen as offensive in the US: as part of minstrelsy, blackface was used to mock and marginalise an entire culture. But when you don’t have that cultural baggage, it’s simply face-paint as part of a costume … as offensive as wearing a blonde wig to dress up as Madonna. And minstrelsy was mostly just an American thing, so world-wide the predominant reaction is going to be “huh? It’s just a costume, I honestly didn’t realise you’d be offended”. So, to me, it’s a completely different category of offense than the n-word guy.
Blackface guy absolutely should apologise for causing offense (and apparently has). I just think you might have to accept that it’s a cultural faux pas that’s going to happen every so often, simply because there are more cultures where this kind of face-paint is fine than where it’s automatically seen as blackface.
@Kiddo: did you know that the Iron Cross on Kim’s dress represented a high military decoration in the Third Reich? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iron_Cross
Pity that Kim will most likely never know what she was wearing as a well-paid guest in Austria … *irony*
Elisa,
It also represents an award of the Napoleonic war, the Franco-Prussian war and of course World War I. There was even talk about reissuing it a couple of years ago to cover for example German troops serving in Afghanistan.
The Iron Cross was first awarded 76 years before Hitler was born, I think you are making a mountain out of a molehill on this one.
@Elisa, the I., Yes, I knew about that, and she is nasty and stupid, without question in my mind. I’m not excusing anything about her. If the guy in black face wanted to represent her real great love, he should have dressed up as a mirror, Kim, or her giant caboose. That said, I can understand the shock factor, even if it it involves someone I dislike, in spite of the intent. I don’t think the US is going to hate the people from Austria over it.
Being in another country than your own is not the same as being guest in a friend home (unless we’re talking about diplomatic visits). If you go somewhere you play by that country rules.
But you all assume that the comedian knew why it was offensive. If he’s not familiar with that aspect of American history, how would he know it is offensive? He was just dressing up as Kanye West.
i think Europe is now starting to take race-related issues more seriously than before (not necessarily to a high enough level?)
for instance the Dutch and the discourses going on about blackface Zwaarte Piet, and even their Royal Golden Carriage with its depiction of colonialism (colonial servitude) that is still being trotted out proudly, as recently as the coronation of King Willem-Alexander last year.
i agree that “it’s always been like that in Europe” is not a proper excuse, especially when it comes to the dignity of people of color and all races. i hope as you do that this incident and others can be an educational moment for the better of all humankind.
Austria was never involved in colonialism. We did our fair share of horrendous, inexcusable things, but enslaving black people, or invading Africa was not one of them. You cannot put us in the same context with france, or the netherlands. I do hope that this not-racism related incident however, educates Austrians that doing blackface is not okay.
Europe takes those issues seriously- there are just different issues here. Do you talk about the integration of Turkish or Sinti and Roma in America?
+1.
I’m American as well with European friends. You are totally correct that many Amercians feel they represent the entire world and can only see things through their eyes. Take for instance the Dutch and their celebration of Black Pete. I was a bit taken back when I first saw photos of the many in black face at the parades. But honestly, I doubt there is a racism content in the American view or are the Dutch, collectively, all racists? Aren’t the Dutch supposed to be stereotypically the most laid back and liberal society?
Just in reply to Cricket re. Black Pete.
We grew up with him since we were children, and he is a very much-loved character. Recently the Dutch had a bit of controversy regarding him but the outcry of many people luckily settled it down.
It’s truly not meant to be racist and simply a tradition, and any black person here so far has not been (outspokenly) offended by it.
Aagje, my mum is black my dad is dutch white. I carry a dutch passport. Black Pete is disgusting and offensive to me. The people who make rationalisations for it are even more disgusting to me because they lack the spine to just come out as the hateful bigots they are. So there. A person of colour just complained lets see if it changes your mind (doubt it will ofcourse, you already know its an offensive carricuture, thats probably why you love Pete so much).
@ DustyFoot
Then I am glad you spoke out about it. And sorry to be “disgusting and a hateful bigot”.
While this is no excuse, it is something we grew up with both but clearly our contexts have been entirely different. The racial issue never once was brought up when I grew up, and honestly, I never thought about it, and yes, that is due to my own ignorance because I simply didn’t have to.
In tegenstelling tot wat je wil geloven, geniet ik er zeker niet van om mensen te beledigen.
@Dustyfoot Really? Hateful bigots for simply dressing as a character they love? And you are not exaggerating even a little bit, you think?
I’m not defending blackface in particular, but I find a bit annoying how the Americans (such as idk above, in reply to 12.) think that we all should do well to align with their culture, sometimes in the detriment of ours (such as with Black Pete), or else. There is a lot of world outside US, you’re not the center of the known universe, grow up.
Kay
I am not American. I am a dutch woman of colour whose family was forced to move to the UK to escape the racism in my fathers homeland. FYI Black Pete doesnt play off as harmless when the kids in your class jeer and giggle while pointing at you when they see his pic. Hateful bigots are just going to have to find a new “beloved characte” because a change is coming my dear closet racists.
@Dustyfoot,
But you grew up in the States, yes? If so, your perspective has nothing to do with your Dutch passport.
@Kay,
I find it interesting that Black Pete is a BELOVED character. Which means that the fact that people love him so much they are willing to become him by imitating his colour. And this is a bad thing, how?
Dear Dutch people
Black Pete however beloved is racist Al Jonson USA black face performer was also “ beloved “ but still racist and took decades for Americans to get it (some still don’t .) the only difference is that USA came to that realization before you did
For the record I’m am Not a American however the first time I saw blackface I did not find it harmless or amusing . Some of you posters please google “whiteface” what do you find ? NOTHING! Because ONLY white people feel the need to paint themselves another colour to display a caricature of another race .East Indians, blacks, Native Americans etc don’t do this crap
@hmmm
Not sure if English is your first language but Dustyfoot said “I am not American. I am a dutch woman of colour whose family was forced to move to the UK to escape the racism in my fathers homeland”
What in that statement is unclear and even though she a POC outlined that Black Pete is offensive you still persist ?
I do agree with you that America is not the world the difference here is that USA is a little more willing to acknowledged certain racist acts including blackface (unlike some Europeans )which is probably due in part to European minorities being really in the minority /or immigrants and more timid to speak up. Oh and people being deliberately obtuse
When I was a very young child, Briar Rabbit and Tar Baby were beloved characters, at least in my world. I never made the association with black people. I just thought they were characters in a book. But they are both extinct now, because we grew. Just because you don’t see how something as offensive doesn’t mean it isn’t. If someone tells you that image hurts me and offends me, why would you continue to defend it? I don’t get it.
@aagje, all it takes is some simple reading of the characters history to know that Zwarrte Pete is rooted in slavery and racism. His entire history up until recently isa bout blacks and slavery. Up until the late 20th century he was always described as being a foolish slave. It wasn’t until there started to be immigration from former colonies and people started to naturally become upset that he started to be known as a playful imp that turned dark from ashes. He was always described as a negro slave meant to serve st. Nicholas prior to that.
And of course the frizzy Afro, the large red lips, and other ethnic part of the costume are all ‘coincidence’ in how they mock black people. I mean of course going through ashes gives you a Afro./sarcasm The character has a racist past and to try to pretend otherwise because of tradition is not knowing your own cultural history. As goodnames said, it is all about growth. If black people from all over the world (not just Americans) are saying it is offensive, why cling on so hard and shout to the high heavens that it isn’t racist?
@L I am willing to concede that given its history, Zwarte Piet is then racist.
But one honest question. On the day of Epiphany, children of groups in three often go around, singing songs and dressing up as the three wise men. One of which is Balthasar and yes, accompanied with blackface. His character is not rooted in racism, and is revered even as a saint.
As I have read, blackface is controversial because it played out to be black people as caricatures, demeaning and indeed racist. Does the same count in the above case?
There’s your problem right there. It’s okay to do something hugely offensive to someone because it’s not a part of your cultural heritage? No, there is no expectation that an Austrian would be able to recite American history, or be able to say what it is that makes blackface so offensive, but considering Austria’s history with racial issues, I’m kind of shocked that you’d be so quick to blow off someone else’s insult.
Well then please stop saying “Uh, that is were Hitler is from right”, every time I visit the US and tell people where I am from, this is also super dumb and offensive. However I chose to be not offended by it, because I understand that you guys have a different culture and history. I have seen SO many people in the US dressed up as Hitler for Halloween and although I think it is dumb and ignorant, I don’t assume that those people are hardcore Nazis. When Austrians or Germans on the other hand would dress up as Hitler, this would be a completely different thing. They would go to jail for it, see this is HOW offensive these Hitler jokes are taken here, as opposed in the US were it would be seen as an ignorant, harmless joke. As someone said, you are not the center of the universe, grow up.
Maybe now more Americans will know Austria thanks to this stupid incident and I will have no longer to explain that we actually have no kangaroos here;)
Absolutely agreed on that. We do have tons of racism (or xenophobia, which descibes the problem better I think) but blackface does not carry the same cultural implications as it does in America.
This, however, doesn’t mean that Stephan couldn’t read about it while preparing this. Then again, what do you expect of the TV station he works for? It’s low standard even for the already bad German speaking world of television. And Oliver Pocher is just embarassing, no matter what he does.
On the escort question: Lugner is a disgusting slime-ball but I don’t believe that he’d ask any of his guests to sleep with him. He’s a major fame-whore and basically thrives on any kind of press he gets. In the long gone past he had some pretty classy guests, nowadays he gets those who’ll bring him the most publicity. It’s all for the attention, nothing personal really.
One of his dates was Ruby (known for bunga bunga), if she slept with Berlusconi, I have no doubt she would sleep with Lugner.
Amen! America is not the centre of the universe.
I’m having to facepalm at the Americans in this thread who bash the “comedian” and Kim for “not doing their research” beforehand, then post about how the iron cross is the symbol of Hitler. No it isn’t, people. Do YOUR research. If she had been wearing a swastika that would be one thing. The iron cross was used for decades before Hitler even came to power.
I would be super glad if you would call out the racist Austrians after the next elections, when the super racist party FPÖ will be one of the leading parties, because then there would be actually a reason. This is blown out of proportion if you try to view it from a non-American perspective.
But when its done TO at an American, it does become an issue. Ignorance doesn’t excuse insulting someone in the worst way possible – there’s simply no way that absolutely everyone involved had no clue that blackface is a huge No No and woukd utterly offend Kardashian. There isn’t an expectation tha everyone knows all about American history, but in the same way we would have an expectation here in the states not to make a ”dirty gypsy” joke to someone closely tied to a Roma, its realistic to expect at least one person to say ”maybe blackface isn’t a good idea in this circumstance”.
I agree, but I can assure you, at least 80 % of Austrians had no idea that doing a blackface is a bad thing. After christmas there is a tradition that children dress up as the kings of east, go from door to door to collect money, and one of the kids is also doing blackface. I Those kids and church-people are no raging racists as well. I really hope that this controversy will make Austrians think, and people stop doing it, but there was NO racist intention behind it. The only thing that Austrians slowly but steadily understand is that the german expression for ni**er is not okay and not pc.
I’m sorry.. I understand it is offensive for Americans, but “we” europeans have to change our traditions like the one of dressing up as the three kings on the 6th January because of one country’s history? In Europe it is so common to disguise kids as the three wise men, and that’s not offensive..
Great, let’s kill all european culture (it’s not important) because it might offend the americans…
“But when its done TO at an American, it does become an issue. Ignorance doesn’t excuse insulting someone in the worst way possible – there’s simply no way that absolutely everyone involved had no clue that blackface is a huge No No and woukd utterly offend Kardashian. ”
Prior to reading it on this site, I’ve never heard that blackface was offensive. 99% of people I know haven’t either. Why do you think the comedian knew it would offend her? He was dressing up as her fiancee, Why should that offend her?
You think this awful experience will put her off doing any more “escorting” in the future?
My guess is her prices just went up.
I’m really not a kardashian fan, but why are we just mocking her about being an escort and not all the other girls before her like carmen electra?
The other celebrities knew their role as being Lugner´s paid company at the Vienna State Opera and acted accordingly, played their role of an invited paid guest.
Lugner is a belittled buffon, getting worse by the years. Just look at his list of „guest“. A social climber like KK will not benefit imagewise. Paris Hilton, for instance, is a party girl who does performance for money, with a solid family background. Kim`s family on the other hand ……….fame whoring? Kim was paid to play the role of an paid guest and failed.
yeah thats smthn to think abt , if u check wikipedia earlier on this dude did have some A list american celebrity Sophia Loren, Grace jones ,Andie MacDowell,Mira Sorvino, Sarah, Duchess of York, i guess more than escort he looks for someone who is the talk of the hollywood boulevards at the moment ,which in turn will bring him publicity for his “mall”,this whole thing with the Kardashians and lugner drama smells of bullsh-t ,i doubt a man as wealthy and powerful as him would have a Kardashian roach run all over him or Lugner being so publicly racist abt his guest of honour this is nothin but a huge publiciy stunt
he had invited Grace jones as his guest of honour to couple of years back ,we nvr heard her experiencing sh-t like this ,this nothin but Kim playin the same game that she played with Humpries
Yeah, I was going to ask if Harry Bellafonte endured the same thing.
Just lets you know how far the world has to go regarding Race. But sad to say that could and does happen here in the USA as well. And I agree with a poster that what is offensive in the US does not always mean it is in other parts of the world. Some things are only known here. Just like that KFC commercial recently. We can’t expect the world to hold court to what bothers everyone in the world.
I think Kris is happy no matter what. Kim got paid $500,000 to appear as the date for some man. If everything had gone to plan that would have been the spin. Kim is worth a lot of money. I think this whole thing is just gross; but her allowing herself to be bought/ and paid for is also gross. And taking her daughter there too; gross. gross. I’m surprised Kanye went along with this. Yes Kim is an adult; but she is an engaged adult; and when you play the game of you can buy me with these kind of men things could have gone very wrong.
Kris and Nori are there for protection.. If she wants to be seen as respectful then she should think about the things she is willing to do. Draw a line.
Exactly. This will not help Kayne’s campaign to get Kim on the cover of Vogue. They need to start thinking past the dollar signs and look at the big picture. They are all about immediate gratification.
He is a nasty ignorant pig !
So are all those african american rappers like Kanye himself who are devaluating that N word nasty conotation promoting it left and right like nobody else, like it’s something cool and this on a wordly platform, insulting and putting the shame on all of us Africans and Black people from the diaspora as a whole.
No other ethnic group in the world use a derogatory word to describe, belittle, degrade themselves but mainly African American ignorants, playing a large role in the promotion of that nasty word throughout the world !
It is high time to stop it now !
I think the intent within the African American community (and rappers) using the word was to devalue it. It would become less hurtful and less powerful because of the the way it was being used. Since it’s still one of the most racists words there is, I don’t think this has been too successful.
“Here’s your one chance, Fancy, don’t let me down!” Is all I can think when I see LHG and her top earner in these pics.
Honestly, I’m surprised we haven’t heard about a Kanye blow-up over Big Mother pimping out his Marie Antoinette for the night.
No one finds it suspect that the biggest hot head around has said nothing? Wonder what his fashion friends are saying? Why hasn’t he come to her defense? Not one word and the story is being buried by most sites now.
^^^^ Yes.
This comment deserves a big bump
Let’s discuss racism where it is fit. This is not that time. poor Kimmode is suffering the sad trajectory of any porn actress; I mean – after you’ve been urinated upon where else is there to go? DOWN.
“Gee wiz, He hired me for $500,000.00 but I was so offended and demeaned by the whole process.” Back your fat a** up Kimmie. When you’re feeding at the trough hon, there are sure to be a few bumps.
She earned a whole lot more for her tape with Ray J; hopefully, the old guy at least got a chubby and could dribble on her for $500K. She’s a whore (she even brought her pimp with her) so to say she’s offended and demeaned just shows how delusional this woman is. I think I’ve reached my limit for both commenting (and reading about) this trashy family.
She still earns money off her tape. Every time someone purchases it or views it on pay-per-view, she gets a percentage…for life.
A lot of people in Austria are not “accidental racists”…I lived there for quite some time and I met the most racist people ever. Some with full intent, some just think certain comments or words are not racist or offensive at all, which is even worse. I have heard the “n-word” thrown around like there’s no tomorrow. And yes, not in cool “youth speak”, but to describe people of colour. I witnessed antisemitism as well. I am not saying Austria is worse than other countries, but the nonchalance and carelessness with some words just baffled me.
You are right, Austria is a super racist country and I am really ashamed of it. I am however not ashamed of this incident, as this is not racism in the Austrian sense. The every day racism is way worse, also the way people vote. We still have people in politics who deny holocaust etc etc. THIS is a scandal, not a stupid, dumb, uneducated comedian. And yes, especially the older people are not willing to stop using the N-word because it means nothing bad to them at all. It is really hard to change old people’s thinking, and in Austria we have plenty of them, because in contrast to the US, Austrians are not so keen on making babies.
A few years ago I made friends with a small group of Austrians in their early 20s, and I thought they were the nicest, most open-minded and humorous people. They also alluded to a sort of a generational divide between them and the older folk.
I lived as a foreigner in Austria for five years and never experienced a single incident of racism. I then moved to the UK, with its reputation for diversity and I couldn’t get a bank account to pay my salary into, and the landlord for the flat I rented told me that as a “foreign national” i would have to pay the whole 6 months rent contract in advance as opposed to 1 month deposit. I have also been told to go back to my “f**king country” not once, but twice. I never had any problems like these in Austria. Let me add that as a European Union citizen with an Italian passport, I have the right to work and live anywhere in Europe, including Austria and the UK.
Couple things. The black face was uncalled for and not appropriate. But I think the guy saying he would dance if they played “Ni@@@@s in Vienna” was doing a play on the words of the title of Kanye’s song “N@@@@s in Paris” and didn’t take that as being racist. Maybe I’m wrong. But if it isn’t okay for him to use it in the manner I thought it was used, then it is not okay for Kanye to name his song that way. I don’t think it is okay for ANYONE, no matter their race or where they are using it, i.e. in a song, to use the N-word.
I’m curious. How would a white individual enunciate that song title?
“Ns in Paris”. (Just the letter.)
Over here (UK) radio DJs were calling the song ‘Paris’ when it came out
Well Vanna, here in the UK people don’t roll their Rs, so basically “er” and “ah” are pronounced exactly the same way.
It’s ridiculous that rappers continue to use this word and even use it in song titles but the rest of us are expected to walk on eggshells to avoid saying it. RIDICK.
Racism shouldn’t be excused just because it’s being spouted at someone you dislike.
Well said!!! And totally agree. However, the natives seem oblivious to the fact that they are acting in an utterly ignorant fashion. THey don’t know/care to understand/knowledgeable-in US’ history to understand how WRONG this was. THey just. don’t. get. it. So am not too shocked that this happened over there. Sad, but true..
@Paris Very true. *Sigh* I definitely understand that we have had different experiences here in America that affect the way we view certain things. I guess my problem is that once we explain our experience, even in great detail, people STILL say we’re being overly sensitive or they act like the situation is no big deal. It’s tiring. Like you said, some people will never get it. And there are some who just dont WANT to get it.
@AlmondJoy
I said something similar above. In any relationship, I might say something offensive out of ignorance, and I don’t understand why it hurts you. But if you TELL me it hurts you, why wouldn’t I stop? Why take the position that it shouldn’t hurt you? I do not get it.
@GoodNames EXACTLY. I feel the same. Once you’re aware of how it makes other feel, you need to STOP. No excuses.
There is a whole world out there with no knowledge of the peculiarities of American racism and culture, just as Americans have little knowledge of what’s culturally sensitive elsewhere. Business people hire advisers for precisely that reason, so they don’t accidentally say or do something insulting or misinterpret what others say or do. There really was no way for the locals to have any idea that repeating the name of Kanye’s song or impersonating Kanye (including makeup to match his well known coloring) would strike Americans the wrong way. The impersonator does this every year, dressing up to look like someone connected with the mall guy’s escort. He wasn’t harkening back to racist minstrel shows, he was impersonating a very rich and very famous American. Very different motivation from minstrel shows. Actually it shows that Kanye has indeed arrived – he’s so well known that even his skin color needs to be matched in order for people to consider the impersonation a success. They know what he looks like.
So I think now people understand why it is offensive, okay maybe they don’t understand but at least they know why it is seen in the US as a major problem. However, when you have NEVER been confronted with this issue before (I bet that the majority of rural Austrians have never even seen a black person in real life) how should you know that this is not okay? You can’t expect that your view on things applies to the whole world. I don’t think I have seen Chris Stephan parading around after this outlash again with black face, I bet he won’t do it again, so in what sense he did not make it stop? Black people are not part of Austrians history and almost no black people live here, this is simply the reason why Austrians have no clue when it comes to racial issues in this regard.
Kris loves it! Lol! All of it. Look at her! What an embarrassment. These people are oblivious. Haha haha. Idiots.
Blackface = bad.
But, how is a play on Kanye’s song offensive? I hate the word and don’t use it, but does Kim give Kanye hell when he uses the word? If not, I don’t think she can complain abut this usage.
K & K are rocking “Orange Face” pretty hard here…
The black face guy is better looking than Kanye on his best day. Too much is being made of this, especially as Kanye uses the N word. Kim and her Mother disgust me. $500,000 fee for attending an event? I wouldn’t walk across the street to see either of them.
It’s kind of funny. If these ‘ignorant’, racist Austrians are representatives of Austria and her culture, what does that make the Americans, Kim and Momma?
Lovely. I don’t care about KK or her psycho family, this is disgusting. I can’t believe there are people in the world who still think this way…. well, yes I can. At my daughter’s birthday party, her friend’s mom sidled up to me and said, pointing to my niece, “Oh, your daughter says that’s her cousin.” (My niece is biracial.) “She is,” I said, realizing what the woman was getting at. “That’s her dad”- pointing to my brother-in-law, who is black. She looked back at my niece and chirped, “Oh! That explains that hair!” and sauntered off. I wanted to throw her out, but didn’t want to make a fuss at the party. But that was the end of the friendship between our girls.
Oh my that face, Kim’s I mean. Just leave it alone
Well, I am German and in my opinion, these dudes are not being racist, they are just idiots. That guy, who said the n-word, is actually a German comedian trying to make a joke, but it´s not even funny. He had been invited on short notice, because Lugner´s other escort, a Venezuelan beauty queen, had missed her flight..
The thing with the video clip – the guy said the name of Kanye’s song. So if you don’t want people saying that word Kanye, then don’t put it in the title of your song.
+1
So because Kanye pits a derogatory word in a song, all should feel justified in using it? Kanye does not determine what’s right or wrong in my life. I CHOOSE not to use that word. Ever.
Well he intended for his song to become famous, so people ol different races are going to say it. It seems not so bad that instead of saying “****** in Paris” he would change the name of the city.
It is not nice, but neither is the name of the song, actually. IMO.
Ummm Yeah. He encourages people to sing along with him. Songs are meant to be heard, sung and often remembered.
If a black person put white makeup on their face to imitate a white person would that be offensive?
I hate double standards. Kim K and her family are full of them.
Michelle- Eddie Murphy (who is reasonably dark) did wear makeup to make his skin look pale Europeanish in at least one movie where he played several roles. He was so convincing that I didn’t realize it until I saw the cast list. It is not unusual for actors to lighten or darken their skin for a role.
I hate her dress, but her face looks pretty for once.
I have no sympathy because every time I go into a club I have to hear the n word courtesy of Kanye and co. (Jay-Z, Drake, etc.) It doesn’t matter whether there’s an “a” on the end or not or what color the person’s skin is who says it because you can’t always hear those things. Just another example of Kanye’s chickens coming home to roost.
Can’t stand when these idiots do something they know is racist then try to “apologize”. It’s like, you knew beforehand it was racist, you just wanted to do it so don’t even bother with the non-apology. -__- Kim looks sooo uncomfortable.
Honestly, I think Kim is just universally despised and many people take sadistic pleasure in humiliating and mocking her. I’m not even convinced this incident is racial per se. I know it seems like that on the outset, but I believe many of her haters just go for the lowest insult they can summon and in this case it happens to be her penchant for being attracted to Black men. I’m not condoning their actions AT ALL, but this woman is really, really hated by people almost universally.
BTW, Kris really DOES look uber smug. I bet Kim us furious she had to take this gig. She’s engaged now, she bagged a rich man, and she’s a mom. I bet she thought she was above these kinds of gigs.
It’s not racist when two black guys dress up as white chicks, make a movie out of it & make money. But it is racist when a white chick puts on a blackface on halloween & or a white comedian at a dress up ball. So white ppl can’t make a joke but anyone else can. Either it’s both wrong or it’s both ok. Be consistent when you call anyone a racist and know what it actually means.
It’s not the same thing. It doesn’t have the same history or negative connotation. Have you read any of the comments? It is very well explained numerous times in this very thread. Learn something.
I agree with @say what. Racism is racism. The word has a definition and it’s not contingent upon history. It is what it is.
But blackface in Austria doesn’t have the same history or negative connotation, does it?
@Maureen
That is just ridiculous. Of course it’s contingent on context and history. The context and history are what make it racist. Yes, racism has a definition, and one component of that definition is the belief that one race is superior to another. That’s exactly what minstrel shows were about. White people making fun of black people. Of course it’s hurtful to them, in a way that a black person wearing white face, if there is such a thing, could not possibly be to white people. But I have read too many of your posts to expect you to admit that.
@Zadie no it doesn’t. I said above that I doubt he realized how offensive it was to (most) Americans.
So only white people can be racist? Please.
@Michelle
Of course not. That’s not what I said. I said that you can’t compare blackface to ” whiteface.”
I give up.
I remember the comment a fan made after Kim’s fake wedding,the person said they would lose it all and that it was only a matter of time…I think it’s starting to happen because I believe that this man might have asked kim to this ball maybe 2 yrs back when kimmy was at the height of her career and she turned him down..seeing this makes me believe star magazines article last yr when they said the family is broke…I mean to be sincere they never get endorsement deals..
I saw the video of that guy saying the N word in Austria to Kim, super disrespectful and inappropriate. I would HATE to be that guy!
This is something we are NEVER going to agree on. Americans are going to point and yell “Racism!” when they see blackface. This is understandable. We (I am American and I grew up in the USA) grew up learning about the Civil War, slavery, the Civil Rights Movement, and even more recently the Trayvon Martin case. Racism has been an incredibly polarizing issue in our society. White people still feel guilty about the Civil War and the fact there was slavery in this country (or at least I do, I am not speaking for all white people), even if my ancestors never owned slaves in America (they immigrated from Ireland well after the Civil War ended). It’s an incredibly complex issue that people who are not American and did not grow up (or at least live for a time) in the USA will understand.
However, I do see the European perspective. My father is French and I have a French passport, my dad’s entire side of the family still lives in France. Slavery DID exist in Europe (I saw some Europeans claiming there were never slaves in their country… that may be, but there were many European countries that had Black slaves, the African slave trade didn’t all head automatically to America). But there was no war to end slavery. I’m not sure how or why it ended–maybe it just died out? But for whatever reason, white Europeans don’t view racism the same way we do.
I feel bad for Kim. To her it was definitely offensive. However from the Austrians’ perspective, they were just doing some kind of practical joke. Or didn’t realize that you should never say the N word (especially in the presence of Americans).
There is no right way to go about this.
nevermind
The story of abolition in Europe really depends on which country you’re talking about. And it’s complicated, because countries that had abolished slavery way back in the 12th century took it up again in the modern era and then had to abolish it all over again.
However, there were never that many black slaves in Europe itself. Some, yes, but I think you might be seriously misunderstanding the scale. It was mostly something that happened in the colonies, not on mainland Europe.
Who springs to mind when you think of the big slave trading empires? France? Slavery within France has been banned since the 14th century. Same with the Dutch – slavery within the Netherlands has been illegal for centuries. England? In 1772, when an English judge decided that slavery was against existing law, it manumitted the slaves currently in England: about 10,000 to 14,000 people.
For comparison: the number of slaves in the US peaked at 4 million before abolition!
Slavery in the US (and other colonies) was on a whole ‘nother level compared to what was happening in Europe itself. The US had literally HUNDREDS of times the number of slaves, plus active laws supporting slavery that had to be abolished (vs old laws that slavery was wrong, which simply had to be re-established). It’s no wonder that the path to abolition was easier in Europe or that the legacy of slavery is so much stronger in the US.
I think Lucifers home girl can’t move her face anymore. This is why she is always smiling.
She was NOT accosted by the “n” word. The guy probably shouldn’t have said the “n” word but then again Kanye and Jay-Z shouldn’t have named their song that. No one called Kim the “n” word or Kanye. Your title of this blog is very misleading.
What I get from the Europeans commenting on this thread is if Europeans are racist, it’s okay. I’ve spent time in multiple European countries and the racism there is utterly appalling. It’s like they are 50 years behind the United States.
Racial segregation in Europe, where?
I have to wonder if Halle Berry would have experienced something like this? The father of her daughter is white and so is her current husband. Would this comedian have gone up to Oliver Martinez dressed up in women’s clothing and in blackface? Somehow I don’t see Oliver having a sense of humour about this.
Welcome to culture clash. We export rap music, peppered with the “n” word to the whole world and then we expect everyone who hears it worldwide to understand the cultural implications of the word in the United States. Kim, world traveler that she is, is unaware of Austrian culture or traditions and assumes the comedian in blackface is all about insulting her and her boyfriend. Hello navel gazing Americans, there is a whole planet not paying attention to you. If we want people to be sensitive to us we need to explain why and not expect people to know automatically that this is a racist term.
If a visiting Austrian were shown cultural insensitivity in a public display, all of Europe would whisper scream, “stupid american” this or “ignorant yank” that. The fact remains, that a woman engaged to an African American man was visibly and directly heckled and insulted in reference to race. I expected more from Austria, and this is a self-inflicted wound to the comedian and to anyone who let him into the event. As an American, I may have many issues with this glorified porn star, but the superficial aspects of her lover isn’t a laudable offense.
Americans on here are accusing the European commenters of cultural insensitivity, which is probably true even if our pasts are steeped in their very own atrocities and their resulting effects on modern society and what is viewed as ‘insensitive’.
So yes, if a visiting Austrian were shown cultural insensitivity, Europe would respond accordingly, as the opposite is now happening. It is all about the society we have grown up in and which issues come to the foreground whilst growing up. In Europe, any comedy reference to the nazis would gather massive outrage, as blackface does for those of the US.
It could have happened anywhere not only Europe.
Some are so ready to blindly hate that an act of degrading hate and racism is justified.
It’s very discouraging, isn’t it?
It wasn’t blackface. I saw the picture. It was professional makeup actors use to darken or lighten skin color to match the character. Blackface is from the minstrel show days and was always intended to ensure the audience knew there was a white man underneath playing a stereotype. The guy in Vienna was professionally made up (it was well done) and dressed to imitate Kanye, a rich and famous American set to marry the escort of the evening. TMZ etc are throwing around the term blackface incorrectly to make the little diversion seem racist, which it obviously wasn’t.
Likewise the play on “x in Vienna” was referencing “x in Paris”, which is Kanye’s choice of a title. If people refer to his work, that’s the word they have to use. It’s not fraught with historical meaning in Europe, they learned it from American artists like Kanye who keep using it. There are no disclaimers on his work telling foreigners that you have to be sufficiently dark to use the word. And how exactly are people supposed to refer to that particular piece without saying it?
Meanwhile, Kim the Ugly American waltzes in with an Iron Cross design, associated with the Nazi military. She might as well have come covered in swastikas.
Kanye has a whole catalogue of songs, why did he choose that title specifically?
Yes, Kanye has other songs. But do any of them reference a particular city in the title as in “in Paris”? It doesn’t really work without “in Vienna” replacing “in Paris” as the song title, so that’s why the comedian used that song title. Kanye is just going to have to stop using forbidden words in his stuff if he expects to sell internationally but also expects everybody else to know not to use those words. Can’t have it both ways. I don’t think the guy was racist, just making a dumb but predictable joke. Kanye was the one being stupid.
one of the definitions of ethnocentrism:
a tendency to view alien groups or cultures from the perspective of one’s own.
and way too many commenters here are doing it.
There is more handwringing over what was probably a planned PMK stunt then there is over the very real offense of that Iron Cross dress.
Austria dealt with Nazis firsthand, and yet Kim wears that.
And yet the majority of the handwringing is “omg blackface!”
Ethnocentric.
@ skeptical
Actually Ethnocentricity may also be used to explain why people think it funny to paint their skin another color in order to be a caricature of another race and obstinately refuse to see why it is deemed offensive
Again not an American
I am actually more disturbed for the several disingenuous attempts to frame this discussion around “Well America is not the world and this is Ok in Europe “ this despite the fact that SEVERAL posters including myself have indicated that they are NOT American and find both black face and n word offensive. The main difference between racism in Europe and in USA is that in the latter blacks make up around 12 % of the population and have been very vocal about racism and some whites have had the consciousness to listen. Black people in Europe make up much smaller percentages and are less likely to speak up/or do not feel they have a safe space to so .By the trends in this post many Europeans seem quite content to practice their ostrich head in the sand brand of racism and oh well at least we aren’t as bad as the USA….Good luck with that
I’m just going to cut and paste what I’ve already said. And, add that of course it isn’t the same in Vienna. That’s obvious, otherwise the guy wouldn’t be smiling and perfectly comfortable doing black face. If it was a social taboo he would have been beaten up on his way to the ball. Not a chance anyone would do that in the US, but Vienna is not America. America is not the world.
decorative item says:
March 1, 2014 at 9:56 am
What needs to be taken into consideration here is that not all people who are not from America know of American taboos, nor should they be expected to.
If a black person uses the “N” word in his song, how can you expect someone from another culture to know it’s not OK to use the word as a parody?
And, carnival is a time to dress up, and to dress up like Kyane you would need a black face. Each country has its own social taboos and we can’t expect everyone else in the world to understand what they all are. Not every country has such a sensitive history with this subject, not that there hasn’t been slavery all over the world at different points in times, but you can’t live in America and not learn very quickly how sensitive the topic is. So, if it had been in America there should be no excuses and no tolerance for it, but it wasn’t so I would classify it as poor taste and tacky and not as a malicious attempt to be blatantly hateful and cruel. Remember, carnival is a time for fun and silliness, bringing in a bunch of hatefulness is not what it’s all about and I don’t think it’s what was intended. Still, it’s poor taste and I can see why she got upset.
Also, if you don’t know why the cross she is wearing on her dress is offensive to her host country, then you are just as guilty as the comedian of cultural ignorance.
The argument that it’s ok to use the N-word because rappers do is WEAK. I refuse to pattern my life, actions and speech after rappers. Kanye and Jay-Z don’t speak for me or reflect my opinions. Regardless of the fact that many use the word, I know without a doubt that the word is wrong and offensive. I REFUSE to use it. Not sure why people are constantly saying that it isnt fair that black people can say the word, when there are MANY black people that shun it. Why would you even want to use it? Some of the comments I’ve read are sickening.
She drinks Brokers Gin! I hate her a little less now.
Lol.
yawn.
I used to get all up in arms about this but it’s so stale to keep pressing this button. There’s intentional acts of hatred towards a group of people and then there’s this. This had less to do with pretending to be black to get their gauche on and more to do with pretending to be Kanye West in order to share the limelight with an attention whore at a party. There is also a difference between “black face” and this. But, once again, we have people who either can’t or won’t tell the difference. Which is sad. But, again, the poorly delivered, dead horse has gotten so old that doesn’t even smell anymore – it’s just boring.
you are so right!! Robert Downey Jr got an Oscar nod for Tropic Thunder, as a black man, and nobody called “black face”…. Is just Kardashian pimp momma PR Machine working
Wow this post brought out the closet racists. No matter what Kim has done in the past, that does not mean it is okay for someone to carry out a racist act against her partner.
Blackface is racist no matter where it is. If you don’t understand why, please educate yourself.
Seth Rogan and James Franco did a perfectly well done spoof on Kanye and his ridiculousness, without resorting to changing the color of their skin. They relied on craft, imagination and the actions of Kanye. The comedian could have worn the stupid jeweled mask, if he had to play Kanye. Embarking on a ridiculous rant about dentists would have hit the ball out of the park. So many ways to play out the joke without making it only about skin color.
Whether or not there is no negative connotation to black face in Europe, I’m not even going to argue whether that is hurtful to black culture there, the comedian accepted that it wasn’t cool within the context that he acted and he apologized. So for him, at least, lesson learned.
Americans are a lot of things, some of them are very very negative, a lot of us with regret own that, and we realize much of it stems from arrogance. But at the same time, finding out that the symbol is offensive to Americans and then telling Americans get over it, you think the world revolves around and you are not as evolved as we are, shows that we don’t corner the market, nor are we that dissimilar, in the arrogance department.
That’s about all I’m saying on this.
Maybe smart ones like Nr. 58 with ……Blackface is racist no matter where it is. If you don’t understand why, please educate yourself…. offend people who see nothing wrong in impersonating people of different ethnic backgrounds?
We all can offend other people unknowingly and we are also able to learn; and, it’s not what you say, but how you say it.
So to you, my comments can be equated in severity to a man in blackface? I just don’t understand how people cannot see how racist and ignorant it is for a white man to impersonate and assume the identity of a black man. For people to still remain that way especially in light of many people in this post explaining why it is, is completely unfathomable. It isn’t a matter of education in the most obvious sense but perhaps more a sense of empathy and understanding that I’m calling for.
This quote from the Telegraph (A European paper) on blackface in fashion perfectly surmises why it is offensive.
“Blacking up is hurtful largely due to the context—the specific reference to minstrel shows and, more generally, a long history of racism against black people. We haven’t yet reached complete equality, as shown by the under-representation of black people the arts, politics, business leadership, and many other elite fields.”
Thank you Kiddo. Well said.
+1000
Kiddo- Seth Rogen and James Franco didn’t use makeup to darken their skin to imitate Kanye because they were in the United States and it would be a cultural taboo. They also didn’t need to in order to get across the joke. The guy in Vienna does these impersonations every year. There is no such cultural taboo there because the whole history is different, he was just dressing up to look like somebody famous who happens to have darker skin. It made sense culturally and was actually an indication of how well known Kanye is. Recognition if a person’s natural skin color is not inherently racist. The US has such a twisted history on such matters that it’s understandable that we need to tread carefully. But Vienna is not the US and it does not mean the same thing. Kim’s fiancé does have dark skin, that’s part of his look and it’s not wrong to acknowledge that. There are black Americans who choose to live in Europe precisely because their appearance becomes just interesting rather than a trigger for bigotry. Europeans have plenty of their own historical prejudices, just not the same ones as Americans. Kanye certainly knows this, that is likely a big part of why he prefers to live in Paris.
Last try, but I am not optimistic.
US citizens and Europeans really speak a different language regarding race relations.
In 2012 Germany had 81 million citizens.
Legal residents of African background ( East-, Southern-, West- and Centralafrica) 127.000.
US citizens 102.000.
No specific number on African Americans.
The average German citizen has no personal contact with Africans or African Americans and no idea of specific racial elements within the USA or on African cultures.
Edit: I am not speaking about racism or manners, but German (European) knowledge of specific US race relations.
I wanted to say something profound, but the only thought RE: K, that prevails, is “blow-up doll.”
And regarding that guy “Richard,” the only thought that comes to mind is “penguin,” argh, call me shallow…
She’s not just dating a black guy, she has a bi-racial daughter. THAT is what would make me (if I was Kim) go off the deep end.
To me, this is Kim being a MOM. Her child is half black – of course she should be offended. And it doesn’t matter if it isn’t considered offensive in the country she’s visiting.
I haven’t read all of the comments yet, but I just wanted to applaud Sarah TK for the brilliant response she gave to the commenter CC earlier up-thread. Could not have said it better myself. I am black and although I live in the Caribbean – Barbados, I have African-American friends and family who live in the US. Not once have any of them EVER said that word or thought it was ok for anyone to say it. I have grown up in and amongst black culture all my life and never ever heard that word spoken. It was never spoken in my house. I learnt a lot about African American culture from a very early age and it was blatantly obvious to me in learning about their literature, music, history, arts, etc. that that word was NEVER ok to use.
The only time I would hear it is when it was on TV and it was always a particular movie, book or documentary that was dealing specifically with slavery, civil rights or racism, so therefore it was being said within a particular historical context. People really need to stop with this ignorant half-baked excuse: “Oh YOU all say it, so we can say it too. YOU all stop saying it first, and then we will!” It really makes me sick. Who is this ‘YOU’ that you are referring to exactly? Like Sarah TK said, the stupid one percent of rappers who do not even represent legitimate African American culture? Those rappers are not the be-all and end-all of black culture. If that is who white people and the media choose to focus on as being representative of African Americans, then that says more about white people and the media than it does about anyone else. Please get your heads out the sand. I won’t even bother to comment on the rest of Sarah TK’s beautiful response, because it simply speaks for itself. Thank you again Sarah.
I would *not* be surprised if she knew it was coming and did it for the publicity. Especially when Pimp Mama Kris is involved…!
America seem to be so political correct, complainig about something said by a selfproblaimed german “comidian”, who quoted a songtitel.
Forget about blackface… Look at Kim’s jacked up face.
What I think is the most problematic (no matter what country you’re from) is thinking that it’s okay to mimic a race/culture that isn’t your own. It’s wrong, period. Frankly, it’s not right to mimic anyone because it’s generally thought of as hurtful and mean by the one being mimicked. That’s not about being PC , it’s about being a decent human being and treating others the way you want to be treated. Personally, I’ve yet to meet a celebrity who is flattered or considers it a compliment when someone dresses up as them.
I know what the Iron Cross is and the history behind it, but I don’t personally see that in her dress. If the dress top was intentionally made to look like the Iron Cross, I think that’s wrong, too.
This whole “Americans” vs “Europeans” thing? That’s rude too. From all sides. It’s reading as extremely hateful. I’m grateful to those who are capable of making a point without bashing all the citizens of a country.
LUPITA LUPITA YAAAH