Bruce indicated in his 20/20 interview that people should still use the male pronoun to refer to him
In Bruce Jenner’s groundbreaking 20/20 interview, he addressed the issue of what his ex-wives knew about his transition. Bruce clarified that he’d always been heterosexual and that this was a separate issue from his gender identity. He also said that the first person he told about his gender issues was his first wife, Chrystie. Chrystie thought she could “fix” him, he explained. When he was separated from Chrystie, he fell in love with his soon-to-be second wife, Linda Thompson, a singer-songwriter and actress who had dated Elvis. Bruce didn’t tell Linda about his gender identity until they were married and had two young boys together.
Bruce admitted to Diane Sawyer that he “wasn’t as fair as I should have been” to the women in his life. That includes Kris Jenner, although Kris knew about Bruce’s transition for some time as he was taking female hormones for five years in the 80s and still had breasts when he met her. (Bruce stopped the hormones as he wasn’t ready to go through with it.) He admits that he “downplayed it some” to Kris because he didn’t want to hurt her. It sounds like Kris was accepting but that she expected Bruce to keep it private. He spoke glowingly about her and their years together and called her a good person. As Kaiser reported yesterday, he said that if Kris was ok with his transition he’d probably still be with her.
That may have been the case with his second wife, Linda, too. In a new first-person editorial on The Huffington Post, Linda explains how she learned that Bruce was transgender and how hard it was to take. She went to therapy with him and it sounds like they really tried to make it work. Linda writes that she couldn’t be married to a woman, though. I’m including some excerpts below but if you’re interested and have time I really encourage you to read her full essay.
On her awesome life with Bruce
Bruce and I actually made quite a great couple at the time. We got along exceedingly well and enjoyed many of the same activities, once he taught me how to do the sports that he enjoyed. Bruce taught me how to jet ski, water ski, snow ski, play tennis, eat healthfully, work out regularly, and basically lose my fear of getting my hair wet and opening my eyes underwater. Well, I may be exaggerating about losing my fear, but it is fair to say that Bruce unleashed a natural athlete in me. I became a pretty good tennis player, and Bruce and I even hosted our own celebrity tennis tournament benefiting United Cerebral Palsy in Children for several years. It was called the Bruce and Linda Jenner Love Match.Bruce and I spent our days living at the beach, jet skiing, walking on the beach every morning with our coffee, sailing on a Hobie Cat, playing tennis, and otherwise just enjoying each other and many of the same activities. I thought we lived a pretty idyllic life.
How Bruce told her he identified as a woman
When Brody was about 18 months old and Brandon was about 3 and a half years old, Bruce came to me one day with a very somber look on his face and said, “There’s something about me that I really need to tell you, something you need to know.” I truly thought he might possibly tell me he had had an affair while on the road. But that’s not what he wanted to confess to me. Bruce told me that he identified as a woman. Not understanding exactly what he meant, I questioned him. “What do you mean you identify as a woman?” I asked. “What does that mean?” He replied that it meant that for as long as he could remember, he had looked in the mirror and seen a masculine image staring back at him where there should have been a feminine reflection. Bruce lamented, “I have lived in the wrong skin, the wrong body, my whole life. It is a living hell for me, and I really feel that I would like to move forward with the process of becoming a woman, the woman I have always been inside.”People have asked me, “Were there any signs or clues through the years that Bruce might have had this issue? Any evidence he wore your clothes?” No. Not a clue. Nothing. Nada. Never.
How she learned about Bruce’s gender identity
I would venture to say that 30 years ago, very few of us were adequately educated about the world of gender dysphoria. I certainly wasn’t. I was living in my little Malibu cocoon of marital, motherly bliss with my world-champion, muscular, athletic, handsome husband. So my reaction to Bruce’s shocking declaration was one of confusion, even desperation. I suggested that we go to therapy. I needed to understand fully what Bruce’s issue was, and then to determine if it was something we could overcome or “fix.” I was naïve. As I said, I was pretty ignorant of the fact that being transgender isn’t something that can be overcome, fixed, prayed away, exorcised or obliterated by any other arcane notion. Being transgender, like being gay, tall, short, white, black, male, or female, is another part of the human condition that makes each individual unique, and something over which we have no control. We are who we are in the deepest recesses of our minds, hearts and identities. I had to learn that life lesson and apply it to my own expectations for my future and the future of my family.I found a therapist who specialized in gender dysphoria. Her name was Dr. Gertrude Hill, and we began going to her right away. She was a lovely woman who very calmly, and as gently as she could, massacred me with the information that broke my heart into a million pieces. She told me in one of the first few sessions, “Linda, this is who Bruce is. His identity is that of a woman, and that will never, ever go away. You have a choice to make. If Bruce goes through with his gender reassignment, as he is now planning to do, you have the option of staying with him after he becomes she, or you can divorce him and move on with your life.” She told us that 25 percent of transgender people commit suicide because they are so depressed and feel so hopeless.
How they split up
As devastated as I was, my heart bled for Bruce and what he must have lived with his entire life. It’s impossible for those of us who are comfortable living in our own skin to fully grasp what an imprisonment that must feel like to be born into the wrong body. I know it’s difficult to understand, to emotionally or even intelligently wrap your head around. It was extremely difficult for me to comprehend, and adjust my life accordingly to, the realization that the man I had married — the very masculine, gorgeous, ideal, wonderful hunk of a man — would be no more. The human entity was still alive, but it truly was like mourning the death of the person I had grown to know and love.Bruce and I separated after going to therapy for about six months — just to exhaust any hope of keeping our family together. Being married to a woman was not what I had envisioned for my life.
I really loved reading about Linda and Bruce’s life together in the 80s. It sounds so wonderful, like a constant sporty vacation complete with glamorous celebrity events. There’s so much more in Linda’s story, including a lot of respect and admiration for everything Bruce put himself through to transition. She admits that he wasn’t always present in their boys’ lives, but it sounds like she understood.
Incidentally, both Chrystie and Linda gave positive supporting statements to ABC about Bruce’s transition. 20/20 reported that Kris said “no comment,” however Kris denies this. She tweeted to Perez Hilton. “f*k you Perez no one asked me to comment ….and I’m sitting with Bruce now watching this show so let’s keep it real…LOL….” It’s dumb to attack Perez when he was just repeating what was on 20/20. Kris did tweet something really nice about Bruce.
Not only was I able to call him my husband for 25 years and father of my children, I am now able to call him my hero.
— Kris Jenner (@KrisJenner) April 25, 2015
There are so many other reasons to demonize Kris Jenner, I don’t think I can fault her for initially saying “no comment,” although she’s obviously touchy about it. It’s doubtful that she’d ever be able to write as eloquent and supportive an essay as Linda Thompson just did, but Linda had the benefit of decades to think about it and understand. She came across as such an understanding, thoughtful lady. If you find out years after you’re married that your spouse identifies as a gender you’re not even attracted to, that’s got to be hard to deal with.
My impression of Linda has always been one of nurturing, maternal and very understanding. She put up with a lot with Elvis as well (during his sad decline).
Totally agree! I read that they day Elvis died, even though there were no longer together, Lisa Marie called her and told her. It sounded like she was such a lovely lady to little Lisa and a very compassionate woman.
i agree that kris jenner doesn’t possess the ability to write a beautifully penned essay like Linda Thompson did. I actually read it on Huff Post on Saturday and the picture she paints of their lives is so vivid and heart-breaking at points when describing Bruce’s struggle.
However, PMK has had years and decades to think about this as well; She knew he had breasts forming because of hormone therapy before she married him, she knew he dressed a certain way privately and wore “outfits” according to Bruce…I think PMK just thought it was a cross-dressing thing rather than a gender thing for the longest time because I also think Bruce minimized it and didn’t make it about gender identity because he was so afraid of disappointing his children and rocking the boat in his marriage.
I think the tweet by PMK was nice; I was actually taken aback by how thoughtful it was. I actually also think that the K Kan (in addition to wanting their own slant and time in the limelight) bowed out of the interviews for the 20/20 package because it would become too “Kardashian dominated.” I believe Kendall and Kylie (Bruce’s biological daughters w/PMK) are very close and attached to their dad and I think it was a conscious decision to stay out of the 20/20 exclusive so the media wouldn’t be dominated on just Kardashian-Jenner girls clips and take light away from the actual issues at hand. In retrospect, given how wonderfully handled the whole segment was and how well Bruce articulated himself, this seems like a trivial concern…however, I’m pretty convinced that they didn’t want to take away from his “moment” and his journey in addition to then also being able to milk it on their show and in their own way. Win-Win.
It will be on their Kardashian show him telling them, it’s been reported. She wanted that for their show. They want the ratings for the last show of the season and their reaction. This would dilute their hype when that show airs. But I don’t think they were ever asked to be on the show by Bruce or Diane anyway. Only Brandon was as he was the first one Bruce told. Then the day after Diane interviewed their father, the other three older ones called Diane and asked for all four to be on together to show support for their father.
Everything Kris does has a reason. She didn’t respond to the show’s request for her reaction because she was holding out when it made her money, for people waiting for her reaction in an interview or something or on their show. The other two responded so nicely she had to tweet that immediately as she looked bad.
This. Perhaps the Kardashians didn’t join Bruce on the show in order to preserve his moment but based on their extensive history I think it’s far more likely Kris chose to keep her reaction for her tv show. Obviously some of Bruce’s children felt compelled to show their support via Diane Sawyer. Not saying it would have been wise for the Kardashians to have been interviewed during the segment, but they could have had footage of them in the home quietly supporting him. I have a lot is sympathy for the (adult) children but I’m highly suspicious of Kris Jenner. I think it’s very telling that her support was the least expressed.
Bingo. There is no humanity and compassion to be discovered here. Everything is a strategy.
And perhaps because they didn’t know how the public will react? So wait with no comment and when you see the love and support he gets act like you always were there to support and love him too?
Kris should have been able to come up with some type of statement. I’m sure she likes to consider herself some sort of media mastermind. So I don’t think the “no comment” was simply a matter of letting things sink in.
Also, about the “we’d probably still be together” comment is being interpreted as shade, but I think it’s just a statement of fact. Had Kris been okay living with and loving a woman, than they’d would be together. However, Kris does not identify as such in terms of sexuality. And that’s FINE. As much as I dislike her, she has a right to be fulfilled in that regard.
I agree. Kris shouldn’t be expected to remain married to a man who is transitioning into a woman if she is not attracted to women. There are many things to hate about Kris; I don’t think this is one of them.
As much as I dislike Kris, I will not condemn her for this. I cannot even fathom what it would be like to be married to and have children with a man who gives you this information. And, I cannot fathom what it would be like to learn this about your father being his child. It must be amazing that he has all the support, but why did he keep marrying women and having children knowing all this about himself?
He married women and had children because he is attracted to women and wanted to have children. It’s not even remotely hard to understand.
Same here. She thought she married a man and that’s who she wanted/wants to be married to. I can’t hate on her for not being able to auto switch her own sense of sexuality. I can hate her for other things.
I don’t like Kris, the Kardashians or that stupid show. But I cannot shade her on the divorce, not commenting and not participating in the interview.
She’s a straight woman who has been married to a straight man for 25 years. They built a life together. That man is now going to vanish and a woman will remain in his place. In many ways, I would imagine it would feel like a death to her as the spouse.
I would imagine it felt the same way for Christie and Linda. Hence they all divorced sadly, not long after he revealed himself to them. The first two wives have had the benefit of decades after moving on.
Wow she looks great in the top picture!
And nothing like the photo with David Foster, which is a shame, because she looked like she would’ve aged beautifully.
I agree, it’s sad what she has done to her face, every woman in Hollywood seems to get work done and they do not age well with it, no matter what lies their plastic surgeons tell them.
Yes, she would have looked a lot better if she’d just done a little tweaking instead of the massive fillers/lips.
this is not meant to be emblematic of anything beyond than this exact couple… but living in SF, I knew a couple in which both people (a few years apart) switched genders, and they stayed together (and this was 20 years ago. I’ve always thought of that as such an amazing love.
Even as an Olympic champion man, Bruce was always prettier than I’ll ever be as a woman. I mean that as a compliment. Much like Kelso from That 70’s Show, Bruce is man pretty. Gah, I hope that didn’t come out wrong.
What an extremely thoughtful and compassionate essay. I love that she brought attention to the fact that, at first, she thought this was something she could “fix,” and then went on to explain her journey of coming to understand Bruce’s situation. It was beautifully symbolic of the way we, as a society, are on the road to a better understanding of transgendered people.
I got emotional reading about the way she had to come to terms with losing the husband she knew. Like she said, it must be like a death, and I can only imagine what that feels like. This may sound crazy, but it makes me a little more sympathetic toward the Kardashian sisters. They lost their father at very young ages, and Bruce was and has been a father figure (albeit a father figure with questionable parenting skills) to them for a large chunk of their lives. I imagine that it’s probably really painful for them to feel like they’re losing another father, all over again.
I think it would hurt on so many levels – to know he had kept this inside for so long and how painful it was for him. But I would also be hurt that he had kept it from me and allowed me to fall in love with and marry him without being honest about who he was. It would feel like a death, I agree.
Not only that, but he chose not to go through with it at that time and ended up marrying another woman. That couldn’t have been easy for Linda.
It had to be extremely painful for the wives and confusing for the children. And it was a pattern repeated (marrying and having more children).
The other part that would be hard to take is having your children mostly ignored after the divorce. Linda mentioned an earthquake occurred and there was no ‘everybody OK?’ type communication — nothing. That would be really tough to get over, IMO.
I’m having problems with his lack of honesty. I understand why so many people feel the need to remain “closeted” but to delve into marriage and bringing children into it is hard to understand. It is deceitful and selfish on some levels. You don’t get to drag innocent people into your issues just to put on a front.
It would be emotionally hard, certainly. But understanding that he fell in love with her and knew that the only way he could be with her was as a man, might make it feel less a betrayal. He wanted to be who she, and the world, expected and wanted him to be, and pulled it off for a very long time. Just to be specific–I assume you’re framing it as a death of a certain relationship, rather than the death of a person. Because he’s still around, and in many many ways, is the exact same person.
I’m going to be honest: I think Bruce was asking a lot of his wives (Linda and Kris) to stay with him romantically after he transitioned. He may still be attracted to women, but they’re not and that’s a pretty big deal. And I can understand why he chose not to transition until now; it’s his choice and his business.
@GNAT, I thought the same, as far as the fact that he allowed her to fall in love and bear his children, knowing that the life they were building together was somewhat of a “lie,” in a sense. I’m glad he can at least see how unfair that was, because I would be extremely hurt/angry over that.
Yes. I also think at an earlier point he should have stopped having children. I think one of the reasons he took so long to come forward is because he had to wait for all of his children to reach an age where they could handle this (as much as possible for something so different).
@Bridget, great point. I hadnt even thought of that. Must have stung in a serious way.
@HH, agreed. I said something similar on Sunday’s original Bruce post. I think it’s unfair that he chose to have as many kids as he did, knowing that he couldn’t be there for them emotionally.
She sounds like a very lovely and protective person. I wish everyone that is transgender (Hell, everyone period) had someone in their life like her. Maybe they don’t completely understand and it’s difficult for them, but they support you anyway.
+1, TateMagate.
They were like the most perfect white bread 80’s couple ever. The hair! The clothes! Love all of it. I’m glad she’s so cool about it. Good for her.
I read her full essay yesterday and it’s a great essay. I recommend reading it in its entirety.
I admire her compassion and understanding. I hope I would be as loving in her position. I think I would feel anger towards him for not telling me before we married and had children. He obviously knew, and knew it wasn’t going to change. That was selfish of him. While I sympathize very much with the torment he went through, he brought three more people into it without their knowing the truth.
On a shallow note, what a beautiful woman she was. Back when breasts and faces were real.
In her full essay, she explains why she’s glad she didn’t know. Not just that they had wonderful years, but, most importantly, because of that marriage she received the gift of her two sons, Brandon and Brody. Had she known, she never would have married him, and then she never would have had her children that she adores more than anything in this world. And those are her only children. She never had any with acclaimed music producer, David Foster, who she married after divorcing Bruce.
Oh, well that makes me feel better. She has a great outlook.
David F deserves recognition for basically raising her boys, too.
Agree with everything you said. She sounds like a thoughtful, kind lady. And she was very beautiful– too bad she ruined it with tons of plastic :/
In a lot of situations there are clearly wrong and right parties. This situation has no wrong people. Bruce can’t help his gender ID, the wives aren’t bad people either. I think a natural reaction would be shock when hearing you spouse has always struggled with their ID.I’m so glad to hear these women not take it personally and have been supportive. It’s going to be a journey for everyone.
I think it is wrong to repeatedly enter into marriages without full disclosure. Maybe not the first time, but the second and third? He had no business making those commitments while he was so unsure of him/herself
I agree that it isn’t fair to the wives. Linda I can see her being a victim, but Kris not so much. Bruce had already started the process when they were together.
This is what I can’t really understand either about Bruce. I can understand his first and maybe second marriages but after ending both and after extreme counseling with this second wife why he would marry for the third time and have two more children. I can’t imagine how Linda felt that she knew why their marriage ended and how raw that must have been to only see Bruce go get married to another woman and create a new family.
I’m in no way judging Bruce. I can’t imagine walking in his shoes, I’m just trying to understand why he would marry for the third time knowing he wasn’t being true to himself.
I agree, Francesca, no matter what personal struggles he has gone through, there is no excuse for lying to these woman and marrying them when he knew he could never be the husband they wanted. Not only that, he abandoned his kids each time he got married. I understand why people what to call him “heroic” but his behavior has been consistently selfish and not the slightest bit admirable.
I think that when someone is struggling with something like this, they are probably lying to themselves even more than they are lying to anyone else. Bruce may have thought that it was something he could ignore. I don’t think it’s as easy as saying “he was lying to these women and never should have married them”. If he thought, while entering the marriage, that he could fight his feelings and live out his life as the man the world wanted him to be, then was that really lying? People’s needs and abilities sometimes change over the course of a marriage. That’s sad, but it doesn’t completely negate the validity of how the relationship started.
You can’t fault the women for not wanting to stay. They didn’t sign up for life with a woman, now if they aren’t caring and understanding then yeah I find fault. But for them to look in the mirror and go we will figure out the family but I can’t be married anymore is perfectly fine.
This would be hard. Her essay was touching and interesting.
His first wife said it wasn’t a problem. She was honored he told her and that it didn’t affect the marriage. He left her because he was restless and fell for Linda Thompson. I think in his mind he ran from his issues and for a while he could push it back in his mind. I think he fell hard for Linda Thompson and could push it back for a while because he was in love. What made Bruce so amazing as an Olympian, the drive and determination it took is what enabled him to try to push back his feelings and go on but ultimately, like he said, the walls would begin to close in on him again and he couldn’t hide from his inner turmoil of who he was.
Kris knew going he he had issues when she met him. He had boobs and said he cross-dressed. and so she allowed him to cross dress, put up with it, so was open-minded like his first wife. I don’t think she expected the news years later he wanted to be a woman, but by that point she was building an empire, focused on her career,the Kardashian empire, her talk show, not even home much to take care of Kylie and Kendall. Bruce was doing it. I think he thought she had her own life anyway. They didn’t do much together. She had no interest in his interests. He complained she was always on the phone working deals, not with the family. The two young girls complained about the same thing. I don’t think he felt Kris really needed him anymore anyway and then the kids were almost grown and what did he have? This was the time for him.
I was always a Linda fan; I’m old enough to remember the end of the Elvis days. They were engaged and she was there at the end. It wasn’t just some casual dating.
I do think it’s unfortunate that somebody as clearly conflicted as Bruce continued to get married. It’s not fair to plan a life with somebody and lie to them about such an important fact. I understand the times were different, but it wasn’t society he had to tell, just the women he was supposed to love.
I also think he threw a little shade at Kris with the “I’d still be with her if she could accept me” line. She married, and had kids with, a man. It’s not unreasonable to not want to be married to another woman, even if it would be great for ratings.
It was Ginger Alden who was with him in the end (technically he was by himself when he died) linda was with Elvis from 72 to 76 she left him because he was a mess. There is even a TV movie about them Elvis and The Beauty Queen.
Does anyone else think it is wrong that Bruce didn’t tell Kris that he identifies as a woman before they got married?
Did you watch the interview? He said he had breasts from taking hormones.
I did–It was confusing. He said he downplayed it, and she and the family seem like they are just now finding out–am I wrong?
I watched. He admitted that although he had breasts, he “downplayed” the gender issue because he did not want to hurt her. It sounds like he didn’t tell her.
The man had been taking estrogen for several years and had C cup breasts. You can’t really downplay that. However, he probably doesnt want to throw Kris under the bus.
Bridget–Sorry if I’m being dense, but by throwing Kris under the bus, do you mean reveal that she knowingly married someone who identifies as a woman?
@unmade_bed: This is all just my personal interpretation, but I think it looks better for Kris if he downplays her knowledge. Ultimately it was his decision not to transition back in the early 90s, and after all there were a lot of reasons for him to choose not to do so. But it just doesn’t look great for Kris to have known, because it either makes her look like she was adding to those pressures, or it makes her look kind of mercenary for being with someone who was so clearly unhappy in his own body considering that Bruce’s fame is part of what enabled the Kardashian/Jenner clan to build their fame and fortune.
Very understandable, Bridget. It helps to be reminded that this is simply PR, and not necessarily reality for any of them.
@unmade_bed: This has been very managed (not that I can blame them, because this is a very touchy issue that still has a pretty significant social stigma to it in many quarters). Transitioning is actually a very long process, and Bruce has spent a significant amount of time gradually changing his physical appearance. Growing out the hair, the facial surgery, shaving the larynx – there’s been speculation for years that he was taking this step, and he’s essentially given the public time to get used to the idea. I’m sure it was a big shock to his kids (I’m including his step kids there) when he announced it to them, but it wouldn’t have been recently.
I think we need to define “knowing”.
Because “knowing” for a young woman raised in this century means understanding that this is an immutable trait. That time and love and a happy family wont change it.
“Knowing” in Kris context probably meant that her otherwise masculine seeming bf was just confused. And as Bruce said, he didnt try to help her understand.
I imagine their conversation went abit like;
Kris: so you want to break up?
Bruce: No, I love you and want a life with you. I’m working on it. No union is perfect, stick with me as I work it out.
Kris: ok, so what does marriage with you mean in practical terms?
Bruce: I’ll wear dresses sometimes but honestly I love sports and cars so I’ll do that stuff too.
Kris: But what about your body?
Bruce: Dresses will be enough for me. See, I’m throwing out the hormones right now. Lets make a family.
Let’s not also dismiss the mutual economic advantages and the spotlight advantages for both, either. I’m not saying that was first and foremost in the relationship, but I was surprised to find that Bruce mentioned in this interview that Kris restarted his ‘career’ and made him a household name again. That then benefited Kris as she parlayed his name recognition into her own new brand with the Kardashians. Apparently, she is fierce management. If Bruce was sexually attracted to Kris, and she him, it would seem there was no issue in a sexual relationship.
I think underneath it all, they found a very strong kinship in enjoying the limelight. Maybe those were the ties that really bound them? From my understanding, (but disclosure: I never watched the show), Bruce became more or less of a side player in the drama, and not the star of the show. Maybe at that point, they were ready to call it quits, as part of the motivation to remain together, (and for Bruce to conceal aspects of his gender identification to the public) had waned.
This has to be at least part of the equation since Bruce is selling the story for profit on his own show. And to BE CLEAR, I’m not saying Bruce is transitioning so that he can make a profit. But he is taking the opportunity to extend the attention and coming out, beyond the Sawyer interview.
There was very much a financial benefit (to both Bruce and Kris) for their relationship. I’ve mentioned this in past threads, but will do so again – as an Olympic gold medal winning decathlete, Bruce was supposed to be a paradigm of athleticism and masculinity, and he made his money as a motivational speaker. As he was going through his initial attempt at transitioning he would have likely had the opportunity to see how his professional career was affected in addition to his personal life (as in, it would have killed his career at the time). His relationship and marriage to Kris saved his career and helped put him on much better finaincial footing (wasn’t he in bad financial straits when he and Linda broke up?). Kris got the status of being married to Bruce, and Bruce got the financial stability.
Bridget, sorry, I hadn’t seen those comments.
@kiddo: You mean you’re not poring over every single post, looking for my pearls of wisdom?
Actually, I only referred to that just in case I was being totally redundant. I think it’s been a really interesting discussion, especially considering that I think there’s tended to be a fair amount of projection onto both Kris and Bruce. But at the end of the day, I think it’s awesome that someone high profile is coming out as transgender, and I think it’s so great that we can have a real discussion on the subject.
I just know that I would be really hurt if someone knew they were gay or identified as a female before we were married, but didn’t make sure I knew what I was getting myself into if I married them.
I wouldn’t be as hurt if they hadn’t, yet, processed and realized it, so I understand how Jenner could’ve innocently found himself in this situation with the first and, maybe, second wives.
This woman had a lot of time to view the situation from a rear-view mirror, and from the angle of one who disengaged personally a long time ago, so she will have the distance to give her greater perspective.
That said, it was clear from the article that Bruce was not present in the kids lives for a long time, and that speaks to one element of character, and I feel sorry for the kids.
I agree. The fact that Bruce was MIA for a chunk of time was more troubling to me. Nobody can help their Gender ID, but you do have control over being a present parent.
Yeah, maybe the gender confusion played into his absence, but there are plenty of people with the same circumstances who never did the same, so it’s not ‘consistent’ (a constant?) within the transgendered community, that turmoil will automatically make a parent disengage.
I think that was just Bruce being neglectful. His kids have said that Kris iced them out of the family. Which I’m sure was painful since Bruce was so involved with his step kids. Bruce’s ID had nothing to do with his being a deadbeat.
Agree, that is not easily explained away by his struggles.
You can at once have empathy/sympathy for his life and that he had difficulty coming to terms with being a person who society might not have accepted and the weight of that, while also recognizing that said circumstance does not sum up, excuse or erase, the entirety of the person and their actions or behavior.
Gender identification and its consistencies or incongruities neither makes one a good or bad person.
Like the doctor interviewed during the interview said, “If you are a good person going into gender reassignment, you’ll be a good person coming out”. The same could be said for the opposite, and any gray in between.
Exactly.
This really hits the nail on the head. Is Bruce courageous for publicly taking this step? Absolutely. But does it make him a particularly great person? Not so much. This is someone who’s claim to fame as a parent is “At Least He’s Not Kris Jenner”.
I mentioned this upthread, but one of the things that jumped out was that he (allegedly) did not even check on the kids after a significant earthquake. It’s bad enough to miss significant events, but to not reach out when there could be physical harm? That told me all I need to know about character.
Liinda Thompson included Bruce’s first two children, Burt and Cassandra, in their lives even as they had their own children. They were still a big part of Bruce’s life,.
After he and Linda split up, he was going through turmoil trying to slowly start the transition of becoming a woman and was in a lot of pain and I think isolated himself a lot. He saw his children but not as much.
Then he after four years or so got cold feet and backed out of completing his transition and stopped the hormones and didn’t come out afraid of losing his career (he had children to support) and afraid of the ridicule.
Then he married Kris. He dropped the ball as a father and that’s on him and selfish. But Kris seemed to make no effort to include his four children in much of anything, nor his own mother, who Kris didn’t like, so his mother had little interaction with that family as far as family functions and the children. Bruce would go and travel and visit her on his own. Bruce just assimilated into Kris’ life and that was that, with him still dealing with his daily inner demons of living a lie until his youngest kids were almost grown and he couldn’t hide it anymore.
I can’t imagine living your whole life feeling inside like he did. His interview broke my heart.
I just can’t stand Kris. That his four older children don’t like her tells me everything, or at least three. Brandon does seem like a little Gandhi, like his father called him. At least, Linda Thompson seems to have been thoughtful about his first two children. All four of his children say they are much closer to Bruce since he left Kris. Bruce is making an effort to right the wrongs as a father to them when younger. He can’t undo the pain he caused them when younger by being an absentee father, but they can move forward, as they all seem to want to do.
I know it’s hard for his children, but at least they are all, including his stepkids, standing by him.
Kris is a terrible person. I don’t care how many “supportive” statements she puts out, to me they are all fake and only intended to make HER look good. There are only two things PMK cares about in this world: PMK and $$$$$.
Agreed, littlestar. I also hate that she made me side with Perez. He did nothing wrong with those tweets and had all kinds of Kardashian stans (shudder) attacking him.
Ahh I Loved that essay, she comes off as such a nice lady
Beautiful essay.
On a superficial note, Brody and Brandon are such good-looking guys.
I love Brandon. He and Bruce seem particularly close. Brody will always have issues of abandonment that he admitted Brandon doesn’t suffer from to the extent he does.
Brody and Brandon are gorgeous. Their parents weren’t very bad looking either! I always thought Bruce was so handsome way back before he started changing
Yes they are! And they look so much alike too.
Very handsome guys. Linda was a very pretty woman, it’s a shame she went under the knife so many times. It’s a glimpse into Kim’s future.
I less thinking the same thing. She was a pretty lady. Her face doesn’t look natural now, at all.
Anyone here have any thoughts on his abandonment of the first (4) kids? They are very forgiving and I understand why but it blows me away that you can have a Christmas, graduations, etc and not even call your other kids.
I don’t think I could have children with a guy that ignores his other kids, either. It doesn’t sound like the first two wives were preventing a relationship.
Bothers me. I don’t get why he skates on that whole issue. That the kids seem to forgive him really doesn’t change the lack of character it showed on Bruce’s part. It does say a lot for the women who raised them, however.
And while I don’t personally like Kris Jenner, everyone wants to demonize her for not bringing his kids into the fold. While that doesn’t put her up for a. Great person award, they were his kids. He could have gone to them, spent time with them. The onus is on him, not her. And you could say that Kris used her evil on him, but it doesn’t explain why he didn’t seem to be around much for them before he even married Kris.
ITA totally
he is lucky that his first two wives were such nice people, his 4 oldest children are very forgiving
i think it would be so painful to know your father was ignoring you so he could raise his step children. im not saying people shouldnt love their step children but i dont think you should put them ahead of your biological children.
Not just those kids really. What’s he doing for his daughters? He’s allowing their mom to pimp them and he’s too busy with himself.
He’s a very, VERY selfish person and that has nothing to do with gender.
I’m happy for him that he is getting to be who he wants to be after all this time. Now, please look outward and parent your 17-year-old child. Maybe she is not your typical high school junior or senior–no one is asking her to be. But she clearly needs some guidance from someone other than PMK.
Bothers me. PMK gets a lot of (deserved) blame, but he fathered 6 children, one of which is not an adult yet. He basically abandoned 4 kids, then allowed PMK to pimp out the other 2. Ugh.
It really bothers me. I have watched children struggle emotionally because of an absentee parent, and my heart breaks for them. I am glad they are very forgiving. Bruce is totally to blame, but I am sure PMK had her claws in that situation. I bet his older children hate her.
It really bothers me. I have watched children struggle emotionally because of an absentee parent, and my heart breaks for them. I am glad they are very forgiving. Bruce is totally to blame, but I am sure PMK had her claws in that situation. I bet his older children hate her.
I understand Bruce was going through much turmoil and I’m sure that contributed to his abandonment of the 4 oldest kids…but it doesn’t explain it. He was there for the Kardashian kids during the same time period. Maybe he was more comfortable with the 3 girls (eventually 5)/1 boy dynamic with the Kardashian period than the 3 boys/1 girl of his oldest children.
But I cut him no slack. And while I am NOT a fan of Kris’, I’m not going to accept or buy in that she isolated him from the oldest kids. Oh I’m sure she didn’t encourage the relationships with the oldest kids from his prior marriages or even make it easy on him to be a father to the 4 older kids….but its on him, 100% on him.
The fact they love him, seem to be able to forgive him and move forward says so very much about the great mothers that raised them. My greatest admiration is reserved for Linda and Christie.
I think he still has much to learn from the women he married and then left. He has a selfish thoughtless gene which can’t be fixed. That’s obvious. I don’t forgive that or find it tolerable or likeable.
I noted when he remarked about his former Olympic competitor that the man is fat today, and said “I love him but i’m better” paraphrased, because Bruce hasn’t gained weight. That right there shut down a lot of my sympathy for Bruce. I kept watching and listening but I care a lot less and was able to view him since that comment rather dispassionately. He just blew it as a human being for me in that statement.
I’m glad he’s able to live for who he truly is and wants to be. Maybe that will ameliorate his true defects which are just baffling to me.
Everyone’s already saying what I wished to say about all of this and doing so more eloquently and kindly than I could.
So.
Damn, look at those Jenner boys.
At my age, I feel like a perv, but they are gorgeous.
The more I read about Bruce and this whole subject I can’t help but also think about the turmoil a person must go through. It is one thing to be able to accept it in your own mind, but to then have to tell family and friends. Bruce is lucky he has a accepting family
Wow I never realized how much Brody looks like his Mom
I’m glad this is being covered. I sympathize with Bruce and think it’s great that he’s finally happy, but no one is really talking about the families he made with unsuspecting women who didn’t have all the facts about him and were not able to make informed decisions about their own futures. Obviously it was a different time and he didn’t feel safe or comfortable living publicly as a woman. But behind closed doors, he could have been more respectful of his wives. Waiting until he was already married to and had kids with Linda to reveal his secret? Not ok. To say that he “Could have handled it better” is an understatement. In his rearview mirror on this journey are his kids and ex wives. They aren’t just collateral damage in his brave transition, they are human beings that he hurt!
He also has a very elderly mother who now has to deal with this and media intrusion. Lots of people who have had to go through turmoil as well, I agree.
All I get from this, regardless of gender, is that he is an incredibly selfish person. He lied to and hurt his second wife, he concealed the entire truth from his subsequent family (noone’s asking themselves how his youngest daughters are taking that their father is really a woman now), he failed to be a parent to his sons from the previous marriage. Not all of this can be attributed to his gender identity problems. He is just an utterly selfish person, is all.
He’s a person who lived confused his whole life. I read the whole Linda essay on Huffpost, and she was understanding about everything. He started taking hormones when his kids were young and they noticed breasts and changes which was embarrassing to them all. Not every person is perfect, and his whole family has forgiven and forgotten any bad
I also read the whole essay. It must have been a tough life, but it was great Linda was so kind and tried to understand. I can’t imagine what it was like for the young boys to see their dad step out of the shower and have boobs while they were visiting. Must have been confusing. He does seem to be close to his sons now despite parent mistakes.
I really like her essay, however, I don’t understand how his gender confusion excuses his lack of presence as a father to his 4 older children. I don’t care if you’re male or female or transgender or gay or lesbian, if you have children you are supposed to be active in their lives. Burt, Casey, Brandon and Brody had no father growing up but at the same time that they had no father, he was parenting his 4 step children as well as parenting 2 more biological children? Clearly his gender confusion didn’t stop him then.
I’m not sure if Burt and Casey had a step father growing up but Brandon and Brody considered David foster to be their dad growing up considering he raised them and him and Linda didn’t divorce until they were in their 20s. Brody out of the 4 children has been the most vocal about the fact that Bruce was never around when he was growing up and that it hurts him to see him with Kendall and Kylie because he never had that as a child. I remember on his show “Bromance” he said peope would ask him all the time about his Olympic dad and how cool it was and he has to pretend like it was awesome when in reality he barely even knew him. Then in this essay, she said Bruce didn’t even send birthday cards, didn’t call and say Merry Christmas, didn’t call and make sure his sons were safe after a major earthquake and didn’t go to his sons high school graduations. Then Bruce said in his interview that Brody is taking it hard because he never had a father growing up since he and Linda split soon after he was born and in recent years they just started doing things together like golf and now he’s losing his father after just recently getting one.
I loved the interview I really did and I’m glad he did it but why is his parenting getting looked over? And why is Linda defending it? Her sons deserved a father and we all know it hD nothing to do with gender. It all had to do with Kris. She ever said in the article that when he married kris that he stopped coming around completely, Brody said in the show that he resents kris because he felt she kept his dad away and Casey his daughter said when Bruce split with kris that he began having a relationship with her again. How sad. I would had to watch my father rise 4 step children but ignore his 4 biological children.
I have been following this story with interest because it hits a bit close to home. Several years ago I found out that the man i had just married – a handsome, athletic and dare I say, macho-type – had gender issues and liked to dress up as a woman and wear makeup. He had seriously considered gender reassignment in earlier years but didn’t feel prepared to do it. His gender issues caused him a lot of personal and family angst – a sister “outed” him in his small home town resulting in most of his family ostracizing him and he was terrified that someone in his professional world would eventually find out. The minute he told me, I knew it was over. I tried to have an open mind, to ask questions, to empathize, but it sapped any attraction to him i had had, and i knew i would never want to raise children with him. We hung on a few years but became sexless for years and really stayed together out of familiarity rather than love. I applaud Christie, Linda and Kris for how accepting they were – you can’t imagine what it feels like and how much you question your own femininity when your husband reveals something like this.
I’m sorry this happened to you, Jenny. As modern society hones its sensitivity to the LGBTQ community, we should encourage said community to be sensitive, in turn, and not disregard the lives and psyches of their significant others as they figure things out.
I sympathize with you-I do not like Kris Jenner at all, but I think Bruce even making comments like “we would still be together if she had been OK with this” were unfair. Just as he has the right to live his life identifying as woman, sexually attracted to other women, Kris has the right to live her life as a woman in a relationship with someone who identifies as male. I can’t imagine what it would be like to find out the man you fell in love with, married and had children with identified as a female, and I have as much empathy for his family and former wives going through this adjustment as I do for all the years Bruce lived in private pain.
I don’t think he meant it against her. I think what he meant was he would have still stayed if she could accept it, not that he thought she would or should. I don’t believe he would have stayed. Kris was a workaholic, loved building her empire. All of the girls complained that she was never home. They had nothing in common anymore. He was retired and they did nothing together. So he said that, but I don’t believe him. He was always at home with the girls, and now they are gone. What did he have with Kris to stay even if she accepted it? Sitting alone in an empty house or listening to Kris on the phone all day making deals? With the kids grown, they had zero in common anymore.
I still remember what his mom said in an interview last year.
“Esther’s resentment of Kris began soon after Bruce married her in Bel-Air in April 1991. She remembers visiting them in LA after Kendall and Kylie were born and being horrified by Kris’s mothering methods. She said: ‘Kris never cooked that I know of, she was always running out to eat with her girlfriends and she left Bruce to take care of the two babies and he did. The only one I ever saw change the diapers was Bruce, I never saw Kris do it. He’s the one that got them in the bath and in their pajamas at night, he’s the one that took them back and forth to school when they were going to their private school, Kris didn’t.
‘I don’t know why, she would take off on vacations go to Cabo San Lucas with the girls. Kris hasn’t bothered to bring up Kendall and Kylie, but Bruce has brought them up, thank God.’
Esther’s also found the Kardashian matriarch had a disparaging attitude towards Bruce’s children (he has four children from his first two marriages) – her grandchildren.
She said: ‘Kris has been so disrespectful, she would sit down and bad mouth my grandchildren that I love dearly from Bruce’s first two marriages and then in the next breath [say] how wonderful, wonderful, wonderful her girls were.
This was before Kendall and Kylie were ever born. Bruce would be sitting right there like he didn’t hear a word she said and it was up to him to call her on it and he didn’t. I didn’t want to make things difficult for him so I just tried to ignore her.”
Jayna, I was not aware of his mother’s comments, but it’s not surprising. My uncle married a woman who badmouthed his only daughter by another marriage, and it was hard to take. He refused to stand up to her until the last year of his life. As he literally lay dying of cancer in another room, with an hour of life left, her main concern was having a locksmith change locks so his daughter would not be able to enter the home (in case he had given her a key). She had not even called to tell the daughter how quickly his condition had worsened. But she could call and get a locksmith to the house ASAP.
I could see Kris operating exactly the same. More interested in the money and ‘stuff’ than human decency.
I love none of the Kardashians, but do we really think the most objective observer of all that transpired is one party’s mom?
@Jayna, I’m sorry, but all these comments from Bruce Jenner’s mother only clarify for me that Bruce was raised by someone who put him on a pedestal and solely blamed the women in his life for his failings–he chose not to see his oldest children, he chose to marry Linda and Kris without being clear about his own desires/conflicts, and it’s obvious he halted his hormonal transition before marrying Kris, budding breasts or no (easily explained to his then-dates as Linda did to their kids as a lack of training thing–lots of men have a little flab there, anyway). She shouldn’t–as vain and self-absorbed as she is–be blamed for what is essentially marital fraud.
Speaking as someone who has a similar absentee dad (those comments from Brody Jenner about having to play nice in public when people mentioned his dad really hit home) with multiple marriages, it’s typical for the dad’s mother to blame wives rather than to be up-front about their son’s bailing on the families they create and then discard. That’s why these guys think they can get away with it–no accountability in childhood. He’s been far luckier in the exes and children dept. than he possibly deserves.
I’d take what any mother-in-law says with a grain of salt. Eapecially about a THIRD wife. Unless she was living with them she doesn’t really know what went on all the time. And since when is it bad mothering to to lunch with your friends while the father is with his children. Maybe Kris absented herself when her MIL visited both because she didn’t feel comfortable around her or because it’s good to let grandparents have alone time with their grandkids and their own child, i.e., Bruce.
I think some people are willing to believe anything negative about Kris K. because they dislike her so much.
Bruce must have been incredibly disciplined to have achieved his sports goals but often that characteristic is based on or results in a very self-centered and/or selfish character. These star athletes often are coddled and treated like Princes and get passes throughout life for lots of bad behavior.
Jenny, that must have been so hard. I just wanted to say that I hope you don’t still question your own femininity. I’m sure that had nothing to do with anything. It was all about how he felt inside, and nothing you did or didn’t do could change that.
@Jenny, Yeah, I think it’s perfectly okay for a person to determine gender identification, but it’s also perfectly okay for another person not to be okay with that change as a matter of sexual orientation for themselves.
Oh, I saw an episode on Oprah about transgendered people, most of the wives stayed and were supportive of their husbands’ transition. There could be genuine love and attraction.
That’s true, but it’s all individual and should be no reason for Jenny to feel like a pariah for not feeling it after the change.
Linda Thompson sounds like such a warm, compassionate human being. Beautiful essay. I don’t know that I could have dealt with my husband transitioning into a woman with the same grace and class.
I read somewhere that he watched the special with his 1st wife, Chrystie Crownover Scott. There was no mention of Kris Jenner being there too.
He watched the East coast airing with Kris and most of the girls.
He went to his daughter’s house, Cassandra, and watched the west coast airing with I think both ex-wives, Chrystie and Linda, and either all four kids or the two oldest ones. Chrystie said she watched it with him and the kids. Linda was at the airport and was asked what she thought of the interview, and she said some nice things and that she was with Bruce when she viewed it. I had read somewhere they were all together, so that sounds like it is true.
She sounds like an amazingly compassionate woman. Very beautiful. They produced two very forgeous sons together.
Her compassion is admirable, we have to forgive to heal ourselves, but the part where she should have stopped feeling compassion towards Bruce and felt more of it for her sons, is where she tells them that Bruce can’t grow “emotional legs” and come to them (or something like that), when they expressed pain at their father not being around, and told them to love him and forgive him.
This is where the empathy should have stopped – these were her sons’ legitimate feelings, and they should be able to express all their hurt, anger, resentment and pain, if not to her, to a specialist, and not be told to “love and forgive”. This is an adult’s job, not a child’s! As LizzyFizzy said, this guy has blindsided women and was given too many passes from them, including, probably, from his mother.
Confusion is unrelated to selfishness. Not to compare hardships that happen to people, but there’s hardly a person that does not have to go through something tremendously difficult, painful and confusing in life. Not all chose to lie, deceive or act selfishly in such circumstances.
Jigli, I don’t think it was a ‘pass’. Kids who feel abandoned by any parent suffer emotional scars especially since they often feel responsible for the rift; that it is because of who they are, why the parent has left them. Letting the kids know that it was Bruce who had to issues and NOT THEM, was probably what helped them.
People are making way too big of a deal out of all of this. Like a sideshow. What he is doing is not groundbreaking. Plenty of ordinary people go through this every day. Good on him for finally being ready to make the transition. I just don’t find him any braver or more special than any other person on this type of journey.
Wait, why did she understand that Bruce wasn’t in their childrens’ lives? What does that have to do with anything? Let’s not go overboard with giving this guy a pass on everything…
I’m happy that Bruce can finally live the life he wants. I just don’t get why he made the exact same mistake with three different wives. I also don’t understand how he could go from such a loving, healthy marriage with Linda to such a dysfunctional controlling one with Kris. My God talk about polar opposites.
Re-reading that essay or open letter from Linda, which is so beautiful and amazing in so many ways, and then comparing her to Kris is jarring. Polar opposites is right. Maybe Linda could take custody of Kylie for the next four months until she turns eighteen and instill some depth and values into her that might stick later in life that her own mom and dad don’t seem too concerned about.
I cannot wrap my brain around the fact Kris did not know or was not told by Bruce. Maybe it is her personality to ignore critical life issues (she seems this way with her children’s personal issues). That itself would be a problem in her marriage. Maybe the ‘no comment’ was a standard PR statement from her camp. But it appears to me that Kris blindsided herself, clearly not educating or prepping her own statements prior to the interview. She looks bad here and it’s not because of what Bruce said.
There’s so many questions about why he did what he did or didn’t do with his older children, but the timing of his absence coincides with his marriage to PMK. I know I shouldn’t speculate, but Kris is very controlling. One wonders if she used Bruce’s secret against him and threatened to reveal it to his older children if he brought them around. Perhaps PMK was completely blind sided when she realized what she’d married into? Perhaps she was angry and vindictive towards the first two wives and the fact they didn’t alert her to what she was getting involved in? Maybe that resentment fueled her need to hurt the other families? Like I said, so many questions.
The only thing that would have been more admirable than Linda’s essay would have been if there had been no essay. I wish she had just stayed silent on this topic and let Bruce manage his news by himself.
People are too quick to judge Kris Jenner for Bruce dilemma. For me Bruce has been selfish man.
He knew he is transgender and already divorced two women regarding his struggle to become a woman.
Why he didn’t just go ahead with transition after Linda Thompson?
Why entered another union with Kris Kardashian and have two more children with her.
25 years down the track, he then revealed to Kris he was a woman trapped on man body. Sometimes we think we knew better how other people lives been played out when we are not there with them 24/7. Kris must be hard woman to live, I don’t doubt that.
But come on, he was married to Kris for 25 years! Bruce was with Kris longer than all his two ex wives. No man or woman would put up with a devil if Kris is truly a devil as many claims she is.
I am not fan of Kardashians especially over rated Kim. But I think Kris Jenner has made everyone a winner as in money. She made her irrelevant children relevant by embarking and managing them for their reality show which watched by millions viewer to make them more successful.
I felt these Bruce transition saga story has been bleed for was its worth to make him look like a hero and made other a devil for speaking up. But start looking on other side of this poor selfish man. I wish him luck on his transition and here’s hoping he does not change his mind again and string another woman to his bedpost.
He didn’t keep his secret from Kris for 25 years. He told her about his life, but after they married. He had been taking women’s hormones before they met and had size C breasts. A tough size to keep hidden.
He started the change after splitting with Linda, but ended up stopping
Because he changed his mind. I hope this time he will go through with it and live a quiet life that would make him happy. No more of ” I am a woman trapped inside of a man” then latched onto another woman and made babies with her, then tell her he wanted to be a woman again!. He should get on with it and spare his family and another woman with his drama.