I was trying to be good. I was trying to avoid this story this week, just because Stacy Dash is such a professional troll and yelling at her is like yelling at clouds. Stacey Dash is famous in many circles for playing Dionne in Clueless. She became famous in other circles a few years when she came out as a hardcore conservative troll. I don’t doubt that she has deeply held conservative beliefs, but she got hired by Fox News a while back and now she just parrots the worst of the right-wing nutball crap (like when she said rape victims are just “bad girls” who “blame the alcohol”). This week, Dash appeared on Meredith Vieira’s talk show and they ended up discussing wage equality and Hillary Clinton. Here’s a clip:
Dash basically says that complaining about the wage gap is “an excuse… It’s the same thing with race, it’s an excuse. Stop making excuses.” Dash says that by complaining about it makes women “victims.” Also, she thinks that if women want to make the same kind of money that men make, they need to be “the best” and “be extraordinary.” Yeah… she’s an idiot.
Dash received a lot of backlash and hate online, because the internet thrives on yelling at stupid people. If you go to Dash’s Twitter page, she’s been retweeting some of the “hate” she’s gotten, as well as some of the support. She also defended Meredith for having her on the show. Some assorted tweets by Dash in the past few days:
I’m for equality of OPPORTUNITY. NOT equality of OUTCOME. That is the FALSE PROMISE of Liberalism. It is a con on society.
Hey @meredithvieira, look what we did! I love you and I respect you. Thank you for having me on the @MeredithShow! #FriendsCanDisagree
I am not ANTI-WOMAN! I just don’t believe that my gender needs a bunch of men in Congress to ‘save us’ from the big bad world.
The 77 cents vs a dollar is based on B.S. statistics. STOP USING IT. CELEBRATE that EDUCATED women in their 20’s now make more than men!
I DON’T CARE IF I AM THE LONE VOICE IN THE WOODS, I WILL NOT LET THE GOVERNMENT MAKE WOMEN AN ENTITLEMENT CLASS. #HOLDINGTHELINE.”
At some point, I think her brain malfunctioned, much like Sarah Palin’s brain shorted out at the Iowa Summit a few months back, and she just started spewing out a random assortment of conservative catchphrases. You betcha entitlement class moose hunting liberalism elitist socialist real MURICA gotcha journalism appalled patriot. Anyway, if you want to get mad about Stacey Dash, go ahead. Have at it. I find her ignorance exhausting.
Photos courtesy of WENN.
SIT DOWN, Dionne Davenport.
Exactly! I am not here for you BS, Stacey!!!
Her last name in Clueless was Davenport?? Lol! I love that movie so much and I never stopped to think what Dionne’s last name was!
Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak and to remove all doubt.
What she is saying doesn’t even make any sense. Poor fembot!
This soulless famewh*re is so stupid, I just can’t tolerate her, I wish she’d exit the black race stage left. The wingnuts can have her horrible uncle tomming. Even Clarence Thomas was more sincere.
She literally says if women want to make the SAME as men they have to be EXTRA-ordinary, and THE BEST. Uh, DUH. She says that as if that’s not what we all don’t know already. Its one thing to know that…like saying black folk and other minorities and women have to work twice as hard…but that’s the REALITY of INEQUITIES. Because you acknowledge the reality that doesn’t mean you stop fighting for equality or stop talking about it. Which is what she’s advocating or even worse, saying you can’t acknowledge that and set about changing it.
She really is clueless.
It’s racist to call her an Uncle Tom. White people are allowed to have any political viewpoint under the sun, but black people are only allowed one point of view or they are attacked for their race. It’s terrible.
Eh. I see a parallel between women and black folks when it comes to stuff like this. Women are supposed to feel a certain way about gender equality or some feminists come down on them like a ton of bricks and black people are supposed to feel a certain way about racism or black people come down on them like a ton of bricks.
I can’t say I blame black people (or women) for wanting high-profile people to represent them in a way that furthers their cause, you know?
Amen. I may not agree with all that she is saying but she has the right to have her own opinions with being called a Tom.
@Kitten.
Something I have seen a lot:
Anti-feminist woman: “Feminists suck because they all hate men. I’m not a feminist, because I love men.”
Feminist: “Eh, we don’t hate men, you know. Just want equality”.
Anti-feminist woman: “Why are you so mean to me? It’s my opinion. Shouldn’t you respect my opinion as a woman??”
Saying you disagree with someone is not telling them they can’t have an opinion or ‘coming down on them like a ton of bricks’.
@Flan
I think the problem is that many (not all, and probably not the majority, but definitely have seen it in the comments on this site) feminists don’t reply with a casual “Eh…Just want equality;” the response is oftentimes more rabid and tone deaf. And the people they are responding to usually have salient points that aren’t “oh feminists just hate men.”
You know what? I appreciate her being vocal about her point of view …because NOW maybe white folks and others will see how dumb they sound when they spew the EXACT same thing regarding race inequality,etc. cheers.
I know what you’re saying but the white people who have issues with Stacey Dash are generally the same kind of people who already acknowledge racism and consider themselves allies with black folks in the fight for equality. The people who’s minds need to be changed are the ones who are not perceptive enough to see the incongruity and irony in Dash’s statements.
So yeah…..
@ kitten. Good point. Le sigh
^^What Kitten said.
Stunning woman almost 50 or may be 50 by now, but wow she says some things that make me scratch my head sometimes.
She has an opinion. You don’t like it (in fact, no one here seems to like it). Therefore, ipso facto, she’s an idiot who should be patronized and ridiculed into submission until she shuts up. On the other hand, everyone here seems to agree that she’s pretty. So apparently, what she should do is just keep her mouth shut and look pretty. Funny….that’s how men used to treat women. Now women are treating each other that way. Yep…we’ve come a long way, baby.
People can have an opinion on her opinion.
That is part of Free speech too.
How even can I even if I literally can’t even?
*sighs deeply*
Yeah Shambles, what you said……
Yeah that’s how I feel. I can’t even get mad because I’m like, is she for REAL? I don’t think so, she’s just trolling surely.
Exactly. Why even bother stumbling over her stupidity?
Thank you Shambles for giving voice to My deep Well of NOPE
Clueless.
She will be forever clueless. I must say, she looks amazing , her face and body haven’t changed at all.
Agreed. She’s very beautiful. That is all.
Perfect!
totally
Yeah, why bother with her? Anyone who buys into her arguments will never listen to reason anyway, and most people see her for the idiot she is.
It’s so weird how people will buy into opinions that actually hurt them. Like poor white Americans who desperately need assistance are largely Republican. Hello? Now we have a woman declaring she should have to work harder to get the same wages as a man. Doesn’t she understand her “feelings” are hurting HER?
Great comment!
That mind boggles me too. One of the greatest ironies of life imo.
What does she even do now? I suspect it’s easy to not be bothered by the wage gap when you haven’t worked in a decade.
I hope I look that amazing at 48… But I also hope to God that I’m never that dumb at 48…Again, the things people do for attention… the awful part is that she’s been given a platform to spread her stupidity and a lot of uninformed people agree with her.
Yes she is so stunning, but I wish she just stayed with acting and stopped giving her opinions. She is so disappointing.
Tumblr disagrees and thinks she’s aging horribly.
She’s Bond Girl ready she looks That Good!
Amazing.
@Felice, what the what? I’d like to punch her in the throat but even I think she looks Fantabulous.
Tumblr has a correlation/causation fallacy with poc. If a poc does not stand by poc, they will age like white people
When she reappeared on the scene of few years ago I was stunned how great she looks. And then equally stunned by how dense she is.
I actually feel a little sorry for her – she only gets attention by saying boneheaded things and pandering to people who probably wouldn’t hesitate to be sexist and/or racist towards her anyway.
Yeah, to both.
It’s not the most educated or eloquent of opinions but we must learn to entertain, not agree with, an opinion that may be contrary to ours.
Stacey Dash has gotten a lot of heat for being a Republican African-American woman, though I cannot imagine what exactly attracts her to the so-called right, I make an effort to respect it and understand that political beliefs are not always based on gender or race.
“political beliefs are not always based on gender or race.” This is beyond “political beliefs,” it’s bordering on insanity or stupidity – take your pick. There is no factual basis for her argument. None. At this point, she’s talking just to hear her own voice. It takes away from the discourse on this issue.
I agree with you, but it’s her opinion, her stupidity. Let her bathe in it.
Actually….I think there might be some truth to what she says about the statistic of 77 cents to the dollar. It’s lodged somewhere in the back of my mind, so I’m not sure, but I think it has something to do with a false comparison or only using the data that supports and discarding other data?
Found it: http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/fact-checker/wp/2014/04/09/president-obamas-persistent-77-cent-claim-on-the-wage-gap-gets-a-new-pinocchio-rating/
Edited to add link.
Wilma, even that article, the differential in pay exists and at times it is even wider, depending on the study. Even the White House had gender pay disparities. Also,
the reason (excuse) is that women leave work, or need flexibility in work, due to childcare, but that points out the glaring statistic that childcare predominantly falls on women, as if that is a ‘given’ that needn’t be analyzed nor contemplated from society, which automatically puts men in a better position for greater opportunity, while women remain relegated to a support function, economically-speaking in relationships.
The actual numbers vary on what population you include (full time only, etc.) But most studies put the gap at around 77-82 cents. And the idea that women should just excel to compensate is ridiculous, since the gender wage gap actually widens as women achieve greater levels of professional success.
Bottom line: If women want equal pay, they need someone willing and able to provide equal care for their children, so they don’t miss more work than their male coworkers.
@Kiddo
You’re right about child care. I’m not familiar with the situation in the US.
I like her, but sometimes her thoughts seems odd.
Sadly she sort of ruined a career comeback with her opinions being expressed. She was getting acting work, then it sort of stopped and she’s doing Fox News,
But her political feelings – I use that term because she repeatedly states how she feels, not what she believes or thinks – are not based on fact.
I truly believe her employer exploits the “Republican African-American female” narrative and are honestly sitting behind the scenes laughing at what she says, because she is fast becoming a caricature/ stereotype. As an African American woman, I really say that she reinforces that stereotype of the dumb black girl- and it makes me mad at myself that I even say that because that stereotype shouldn’t exist. However, I agree with someone that posted that while we are free to disagree with her, the whole purpose of free speech is to give people the right to articulate what they think. Free speech, however, isn’t really free- there are always repercussions, be they positive or negative.
I don’t know, Fox had so many dumb blonde women, that I hardly notice Stacey Dash.
@Coco The stereotype of black women is being angry not dumb. I don’t know where you got that from. That isn’t true either.
She does have the right to express her feelings but I have the right to point out that they are not based in reality
This. But she’s still a dingbat
Her beliefs are not based on facts. That’s where my respect ends.
I respect anyone who will get into heated discussions with me, who will defend their opinions and points of view in an educated manner. Most of the time though, with people like her, you can’t do that. Because you cannot fight catchphrases or the “belief” that, say, science is a matter of opinion. Just to name one issue Fox News has. I do not respect someone who promotes views that hurt people already at a disadvantage without being able to string a sentence together. You want poor people to stay poor? You want women and people of color to work three times as hard for the same pay? Or less? Then you need to be able to defend that using proper sentence structure.
I agree with your basic point, just not with the idea that this is someone I should respect.
The great thing about America is that people have the right to spout idiotic opinions from whatever party they choose.
Nope
So work harder than average men (be extraordinary) to get paid the same? Got it.
WELL PUT!
Her basic message, to which she returned several times, is that a woman should work harder to get the same money as a man. So, either she believes women do not work hard, that they are doing less work in the same job OR that they really should be paid less because a woman who works harder than a man to receive the same pay is actually being paid less. She also “feels” instead of “thinks” or “believes” and she seemed really hurt that Meredith wasn’t agreeing with her.
That’s exactly what I got out of it.
That’s how I got it as well. But I think the defining premise is that she doesn’t think there is a wage gap at all. She seems to believe that women in their 20’s make more than men in their 20’s. Where’d she get that stat? I admittedly don’t keep up on info like that. She is saying that opportunity is equal for all, regardless of race or gender and if we’d just work hard we’d see that… and the only thing defining those that do well is their ability to seize opportunity rather than make excuses. Sounds inspiring but I just dont think its reality.
Ill expect to be yelled at but she is significantly lighter skinned than she used to be. Can that all be attributed to not having a summer tan?
I don’t think she has been lighting her skin. Skin tone can change over the years especially if you are taking care of it, avoiding the sun, and eating healthy. I certainly don’t think it has anything to do with her political beliefs.
I have two shades of foundation, one for summer when I am darker from a tan and one for winter when I am noticeably lighter. Maybe this is the case with Stacy.
No Sarah She’s always been this skin tone. She also has blue or green eyes from a European ancestor.
Stacey Dash is a mixture, anyway, as many African Americans are.
Shes a gorgeous woman…period. I find it insulting when people accuse these gorgeous women of colour of lightening their skin. It’s obvious she has not!
Hmmm well the only thing I know her from is Clueless. Google it and you’ll see her skin was very noticeably darker. It’s not just me being outrageous here
I agree with Sarah. I’m not drawing any conclusions since you can get much darker/lighter if you’re mixed heritage, but she’s undeniably light here…and rocking a silk treatment.
Why does every famous black woman get accused of skin lightening?
Sarah, my skin is a different color in every picture I take. It all depends on the lighting of the room I’m in. I’ve seen Stacey on many shows and magazines over the years, and her skin color has never changed. Let’s accuse her of what we know for a fact: She’s an idiot.
Some black women look like they lighten their skin that’s why. Lil Kim and Tamar Braxton look like they’ve like they’ve lightened their skin. It might be makeup but they look lighter than they did a few years ago.
I’ve noticed that my African-American friends’ skin gets lighter as they age – most noticeably when they hit the 50s. Just like when European Americans’ skin get those dang black/aka age spots as we age.
I thought that was BS when you said it, but I googled her and….yeah. She IS significantly lighter and her eyes are bigger and I even think she might be wearing not just colored contacts, but the kind that make your irises bigger.
We all gets tans or get lighter and whatnot, but nobody goes from being black to being white. And that’s what she’s looking like. I happen to have been raised in a family of black and white people, and I can say I’ve never in my 35 years on this earth seen skin naturally change color quite like that–the equivalent for white skin would be going from using tanning lotion at a tanning bed on a regular basis to using SPF 50 on a regular basis. But I hardly think Dionne from Clueless was hitting the tanning bed hard to look more black so she’d hit it big time in Hollywood, so that’s an unlikely explanation here.
I used to get annoyed when ppl accused actresses of skin lightening but I’m starting to think it IS rampant.
Her use of statistics is … interesting. She’s basically cherry picked what she wants without actually analyzing it or understanding it.
Also, the all caps stuff, shouting doesn’t make it true. ‘The lone voice in the wilderness’. Ah, so she’s a voice a reason where others are not? I think not.
Stacey, like my young child, has learned that she receives attention for outlandish behavior. I expect this will continue and not much attention should be paid to her.
I am not a fan of Sarah Palin but she was voted by the people of Alaska to hold the office of Governor. And, like it or not, being a Vice Presidential candidate is an accomplishment that cannot be dismissed.
Stacey is not really in the same league as Sarah, although a comparison probably delights her!
Why is anyone talking to her at all? She is talking out of her a—.
I just don’t believe that my gender needs a bunch of men in Congress to ‘save us’ from the big bad world.
Agreed Stacey, we need more women there to do it.
x10000000000
I think she has a daughter too, which makes her statements sound even more ridiculous.
I know, right? Just like we didn’t need them to pass that pesky 19th amendment! (eyeroll)
She insisted that women aren’t paid less than men, then stated that if women want to make as much money as men do they have to work harder…because women need to stop being victims or something.
This woman must’ve started eating lead paint chips recently.
I stopped paying attention to the female Don Lemon ages ago. She’s trash.
“The female Don Lemon” LMAO!
The stupid, it burns with this one, doesn’t it?
She looks absolutely amazing at 48. I hope I look that great. I wish I knew her secret.
Yup, that’s all I got.
No strenuous brain activity.
All the work you had done to prepare for your fully nude Playboy pictorial…and your quickee divorces.
Maybe she doesn’t have enough brain cells to think and put on wrinkle cream at the same.
I see someone is thirsty for some publicity.
I don’t get some women, especially female celebrities that unfortunate have a wide platform where their questionable opinions can reach the masses, seem to have this need to defied the concept of feminism when they are not aware of its true definition. It looks like they are desperate to appease the men in fear that they might come of as not feminate enough to them. So in return, they basically throw the rest of us females and the rights and qualities that women have fough for years under a bus. It’s the same with female pro-life extreme activist. There is a difference in giving constructive criticism to eachother and being almost disloyal to your gender, which men are aware of this about women and take advantage off.
Everyone can have a personal opinion on gender equality and other stuff but one thing that all men seem to do well is when it comes to benefiting their own gender they all stand much more united and loyal to eachother then women do and that’s what’s been their success to dominate and women’s great disadvantage. That’s one thing all women should learn is that even if we all don’t agree with ever aspect of feminism and gender equalities, in public and in front of men we should all have each others back and stay united to there gender. This may sound ultra cheese but it is what it is.
Actually, on Fox news, and in political quarters, this is once again turning the world on its axis in order to blame people (see also poor people, black people, etc) for their own circumstances.
It’s just a variation on a theme that has been spun for decades now, where the poor, women. the black community, fill in the blank disenfranchised, are simply lazy and aren’t working hard enough. They have opportunity dammit. Never mind that the opportunity pays much less, and it may require taking 3 part-time jobs at once, with no healthcare, etc. They have once again co-opted the feminism angle by saying that women should realize they are strong and not victims of a stilted system. It’s a variation of “I’m up, pull the ladder up, Jack” and how I can sleep at night deflecting responsibility.
I disagree. Most of us have an opportunity to get ahead in life but, unfortunantely, some never take advantage of it. They make poor choices, don’t receive proper guidance, refuse to accept responsibility for their own lives or, yes, don’t work hard enough. Don’t blame people who work hard for the downfall of people who are hardly working.
My point was that people starting at third base thinks it’s easy to get there where they are, without having the advantages that they were given. Opportunities vary WIDELY based on where someone grows up, economics and yes, guidance, connections and also good luck. Not being paid the same as a male coworker for the same position has a little bit to do with the system and not just someone’s ambition alone.
YES YES YES!!!! have you ever noticed how man will go to great lengths to defend their territory? Often times at a great cost to women… This is why women haven’t been able to break through things. Movies, for instance… women will happily watch male oriented movies but men will NEVER do the same. It’s a great big joke to them if a man goes to watch a “chick flick”… we just don’t have that kind of solidarity.
I love how she thought she was complimenting Meredith by saying she was successful and then Meredith came back and said she was pissed off because she had worked hard for that success but through most of it was still paid less than her male counterparts.
And I also point out that, at age 61, Meredith looks sensational?
I love Vieira. Today Show went downhill at break-neck speed after she left.
I mean, it was never NPR, but it wasn’t the tabloid trash that it is now when she was still there.
Well, NBC as a whole is turning into a white-hot mess. Brian Williams, anyone?
Too true.
I D I O T
If I hadn’t read the post, I woulda NEVER remembered who she was! Just wanted to see which tool of a celebrity held these views. Guess ya gotta do what ya gotta do to survive in this world…
She’s just ignorant. She makes tons of money so it doesn’t affect her. She’s never been raped and so really doesn’t get that it’s about assault and not sex. She probably also thinks that only women who dress like hookers have to deal with sexual harassment from men on the streets or passing by in cars, while actually you can be totally covered in loose clothing and still have to endure it unless you’re walking with a man or a child (marking you as belonging to a man who might clean their clock…). I wondered once if I should take out a notebook and write down license plate numbers, but figured they might turn around and really try to hurt me then. I’ve had to go to a neighbor’s house or into a store just to prevent such guys from finding out where I live. Guess that’s never happened to her.
Why in the world should women have to be better than men to get paid the same? It makes no sense. My mother was far better in her job than the men who preceded her, and far better than the guy with the title in her department – when he handled the publication, it was chaos. When she did it, things ran smoothly (and the ones who had to do the work under her said so). She never got a title and was never paid even what her male predecessors in her exact same job got. They were single men and she was supporting two children. So being better has nothing to do with pay inequality. It does have to do with the old false perception that women were working for “pin money” but men were working “for real”. That was never true, and a large fraction of families have always been supported by women alone because guys can die, get sick, lose their job, or run off. And nobody suddenly gives women who have husbands a pay raise when any of those things happen and they are suddenly the only income producers in the family. Likewise when a single income can’t really pay all the bills anyway.
Fox News is called Faux News for a reason. Definitely her forever home.
Always a pleasure to read your posts jwoolman.
Meh. She’ll probably apologize next week. It seems to be the new thing among celebs.
On Fox News, an apology is as rare as a golden unicorn. There will be doubling down and mental gymnastics in order to back up the first statement.
I’m embarrassed that I was ever a fan of hers. Every single time she opens her mouth, something stupid comes out. I love that Meredith went IN on her.
She was really good and cute in her role in Clueless. But as you watch her in action after the film, you realize it may not have been a role.
Lol she’s such a puppet
“CELEBRATE that EDUCATED women in their 20’s now make more than men!”
Is this true?
Educated women in their 20s in select major cities that are hubs for young people (such as NYC) have been shown to have a higher median income than their male peers. Median income isn’t the best metric for determining profession by profession incomes, and some of the studies referenced childless single women in their 20s specifically.
But still.
“While Wood is careful to note that she was talking about “childless, single young women” in metropolitan areas, Chung said that Wood failed to note that the analysis concerned median incomes between men and women.
Why is that important?
Median income figures look at earnings in the aggregate, rather than compare like jobs or professions. That leaves the claim open to the same criticism Republicans levy against Democrats when they claim women earn 77 cents for every $1 a man does. (Namely, that the statistic isn’t a true apple-to-apples comparison.)
In the case of Chung’s findings, the reason why young women in metropolitan areas earn more than young men is that they are 50 percent more likely to graduate from college.
“As a result, they populate more of the entry-level knowledge-based economy jobs than young men,” Chung said.
Chung said it “would be totally incorrect to imply that these women outearn men with similar jobs or similar educations.”
“The bottom line is that in a world where most players are looking for a sound bite to support a specific position, this is actually a rather complex issue,” Chung said. “Things aren’t exactly as equal as some people say, but it’s not always as dire as others say.””
http://www.politifact.com/punditfact/statements/2014/apr/09/genevieve-wood/what-pay-gap-young-women-out-earn-men-cities-gop-p/
It’s usually white women who are childless college graduates that are making the higher median. In other words, they’re making that money because of a combination of a.) social privilege, b.) lacking the general expenses of a typical middle class family, and c.) having had the opportunity to attend college. Which gets into a whole other kettle of fish regarding the ability of women to find well paying jobs that don’t require an expensive college education. Compare the income of unskilled labor for traditional male and female professionals, and the discrepancy becomes more evident.
Women deserve equal rights and respect. Anything less makes my heart burn. However, after becoming an adult, and seeing how most of my mom-acquaintances can hardly talk about anything except their children–and are, primarily, the ones who must miss work for gestation, birthing, nurturing and raising–I started to question whether or not, if I were to own a company with salaried employees, I would be skeptical of hiring women to begin with. Furthermore, from my experiences in the workplace, women and gay men gossip much more in the workplace (which breeds unproductive animosity) than straight men. I absolutely hate it when people degrade or devalue women, but I also abhor reinventing or ignoring reality in making idealistic arguments. Maybe some women don’t deserve to make what their male counterparts make.
Um, and maybe some males, blacks, Belgians, and redheads don’t deserve to make what their counterparts make either. Obviously we worked at different places because some of the men I worked with talked up a storm around the water cooler and were especially good at using their double computer screens to work on one screen and watch ESPN on the other. Also, if all of the onus falls on one parent to rear children in a two income economy, that is a problem that needs to be dealt with through policy changes. It sounds like you just want to blame women for having children. It takes two to tango.
Every workplace I have ever been in has featured loud, animated, lengthy discussions about the NFL on Monday mornings. Every game is analyzed. Player stats are discussed. Standings are reconfigured. And March Madness usually results in high absenteeism. As does Opening Day. Most of the participants in these activities are male. But apparently somebody here has never experienced such workplaces.
Exactly:
also men gossip just as much if not more than women.
They only don’t call it that, but keep an ear out for all the time your male colleagues say something catty/nasty/insulting about someone else.
It’s a lot more than we think.
I work in a company where only the best and the brightest survive. I don’t see the kind of behavior that you are talking about. Certainly women do have to take much more time off in order to have a family. It’s biology. It’s no good saying there shouldn’t be a gender gap in pay when it’s biology that dictates women must be the ones to shoulder the majority of the family responsibility during their child bearing years. This results in decreased output at work – it has to. Often this has lead to the presumption that women are somehow across-the-board less capable than men, and therefore deserve less pay. How does one fight this?
I honestly think women should have the right to work and be a mom–but can’t understand how a person could do both very well. Stay-at-home Dad could take care of the children and household, if that’s what Mom wants, but I can’t imagine that working out long term. I support the feminist ideals of women being treated with respect and dignity and being afforded the freedom to make choices about their own lives, communities and society. I think it’s a mistake, though, for women to try to do it all. Something is going to suffer, or fall by the wayside. Sometimes, that thing is a woman’s profession.
“Stay-at-home Dad could take care of the children and household, if that’s what Mom wants, but I can’t imagine that working out long term.”
Why?
Why shouldn’t each parent have the obligation, if it is required, to take family leave, perhaps alternating. And why aren’t men able to accomplish long term stay at home duties?
My boyfriend is friends with this lovely married couple who have a 3-year-old girl. She does not get maternity time, he gets 3 months paternity.
Men gossip every bit as much as women. Believe me. They are the first to offer up who is sleeping with who at the office. They just may not be doing it in the circles where you are watching others.
And Crumpet, biology accounts for a portion of the time off, but not all. Since it is expected that woman take on the role as care-givers, it allows men to proceed at their careers, without interruption.
I worked for a good while in a news room, and while men would listen in to gossip or discussions on office politics, they didn’t get invested in or keep it going like the women and gay men. I found the company women to be very competitive, in the most petty ways, and the men to be dismissive of women’s input, in general, until they had proven themselves to be serious.
What does proving themselves to be serious even mean? That they acted more like the men? Being dismissive to the women sounds much more like bias, rather than the women having the issues.
In regards to the stay-at-home Dad comment (I wasn’t able to reply above), that is just my opinion. I don’t think I would be attracted to a stay-at-home Dad.
Even with a stay-at-home Dad, there is going to be a period of time where women have to take leave while carrying the baby, giving birth and nursing. What if the woman has, like, four children in a row? I used to argue vehemently for equal pay, but that was before my friends started having children. I had no idea how much it takes out of people
” I don’t think I would be attracted to a stay-at-home Dad. ”
Well, that proves it then.
Also, again, the time period for medical/health considerations for birth, vary greatly. Some women return to work almost immediately.
And what of all of the single mothers who work? Who HAVE TO work? DO they somehow deserve less pay than male counterparts? Why should they have to work harder or be more male to be taken seriously or to be paid equally? And what of women who have no desire to give birth and raise children? Should they only receive equal pay by working harder than the men? None of this argument makes any sense.
I think people should expect equal pay, regardless of their gender, if they are honestly giving back the same quality and quantity of work. Of course that makes sense.
I only said that maybe some women shouldn’t make as much. If a mom decides not to breastfeed and gets back to work right away, then, of course, she would be more valuable to her employer; but, arguably, less so to her child. I see this as harsh reality.
These same rules apply to single parents of either gender
Men often don’t take women seriously for a vast array of reasons–some of which are the fault of the man’s biology or upbringing, and some of which are the fault of the woman. It just really depends. Women, in the workplace, should make every effort not to devalue themselves, or let men get away with devaluing them. (Don’t present yourself as an object, or a silly gossiper; and don’t stand for it if men treat you as such.)
Actually, you started off with a comment making global statements about how gays and women were particularly bitchy and petty and that that held them down, while hetero men are not, and should be taken more seriously. Then you went on to explain that women have children so they don’t put as much in, but then you said men could never take over that responsibility, because you wouldn’t be attracted to them. Quantity and quality can be highly subjective, as some guy could be looking busy at a desk, while a woman or gay man runs circles getting things done. But if the perception is that hetero guy is serious, he’s gonna be the one who rakes in the dough, more so than others perceived as petty and bitchy, although we know everyone talks shit.
A lot of your harsh realities are based on stereotypical value of gender, characteristics of gender and traditional gender roles.
Your summary of my words is off, Kiddo–but it doesn’t even matter, because what I said makes sense, and I’m content with it. I’m not putting this out there to change people’s minds, because people so very rarely understand and value that which makes sense. It’s all about ego in this world, and no one cares about reading comprehension, intellectual honesty, or philosophically coming full circle. I admitted that not being attracted to men who don’t have a profession could just be my thing, and never said that they could never take over the responsibility of raising children—etc etc
This whole conversation is making my head spin. I cannot have children, which is none of my employer’s business and is illegal for an employer to ask or to base salaries on the possibility of child care demands. Many mothers use breast pumps. Others can’t or choose to use formula instead. If a man wants to be a stay-at-home dad, more power to him. Not every woman is the nurturing parent and women shouldn’t be forced into that role if it is not their nature. Gender stereotyping has no legal place in the workplace and that these arguments still take place infuriates me – and oh, I make most of my income defending workplace discrimination cases. Any prospective client who puts forth those opinions is told that their case is a loser and they should find another lawyer
Unmade_bed, I was trying to make sense of what you were driving at. I wasn’t trying to beat you up, but it was a circuitous route in that it led back to cultural belief and perception of gender; the qualities, roles, value and expectations established for each. I wasn’t being disingenuous or intellectually dishonest in this quest.
@Unmade_bed: “Your summary of my words is off, Kiddo–but it doesn’t even matter, because what I said makes sense, and I’m content with it. ”
It makes sense to you, but reading it, and seeing what you’re actually writing, her interpretations makes sense. You write nice words about equality, but then repeatedly engage in stereotypes about both women and gays. As if the stereotypes wouldn’t be noticed if you threw in the stuff about equality first. It’s as if one part of you is saying what you want people to hear, and to think that you think, and the other is really you, which does seem to be still engaging in gender stereotyping and how women are supposed to behave just ‘because’.
I don’t mind engaging in stereotypes if they are reality. These are my experiences, and I won’t pretend otherwise to fit in with some ideal of what a feminist is supposed to say.
I think a lot of feminists are subconsciously afraid to speak about their limitations, because they are justifiably scared of having it used against them later, by some disingenuous person who would attempt to disenfranchise them. Perhaps, I should be mindful of this same fear, but I honestly don’t think women can do it all and do it well. I certainly think they should have the right to try to do whatever they want. From a business owner’s perspective, I would prefer to hire a man, over a woman who was getting ready to have a baby, the rest being equal.
unmade_bed, you started off not with limitations, but a judgement of seriousness in work ethic, based on people gossiping or talking about their kids. Then you went on to say that you don’t know if you’d hire women with the assumption that they are all going to be baby making machines. And that is patently false. I do not want children, but I wouldn’t be at the top of your list for hire because I have a uterus. That is most certainly not a feminist ideal.
Hetero men gossip, A LOT. This is how I find out all the political news and who is sleeping with who. Again, is it gossip that makes these people not serious, or is it gossip in a circle within people who are peers, who don’t have private offices in which to express these asides that you find petty and bitchy? Or is it who is doing that gossiping that keeps you from taking them seriously? BTW, news begins as gossip, and takes shape after you find evidence for conclusions, in publishing. Is that the worst thing that employees could be doing? Is their work getting done? If not, why are these people not working and not getting anything done if they have managers in charge, who are men? Are they not able to do their jobs?
And for anecdotal info: My BF has his own business. Guess who takes days off and has to leave because of kid emergencies? A guy, that’s right. Maybe he shouldn’t keep his job,or be hired in the first place because he has kids, even though he is incredibly talented, a good person, while also being a good father, even though those demands may stretch him thin.
ETA: this is my final comment. You have your ideas, and you are entitled to them, but I see them as narrow.
Kiddo – Unfortunately, I would be skeptical about hiring women, but I should’ve said, of child-rearing age. Now, I’m curious whether or not it’s legal to ask interviewees questions about children or childcare. If you don’t ask, and hire them, only to discover that they are overly distracted by children, is it legal to fire them?
Now you’re just trolling and maybe you were all along. Good one, you had me there.
Unmade_bed, since you “don’t mind engaging in stereotypes”, allow me to do the same to you…
Your chosen name here tells me that you’re lazy and your mind a chaotic mess of nonsensical opinions.
(Stacey Dash, is this really you?)
Yes, unlike you, Laura, I am very imperfect.
However, your clever deduction has nothing to do with stereotyping.
Stereotyping, generalizing, judging…
It’s all the same, based only on your own very limited experience and miserable worldview. And in the workplace as life, it’s as negative as gossiping.
“Unfortunately, I would be skeptical about hiring women, but I should’ve said, of child-rearing age. Now, I’m curious whether or not it’s legal to ask interviewees questions about children or childcare. If you don’t ask, and hire them, only to discover that they are overly distracted by children, is it legal to fire them? ”
And now you have added age discrimination in with your gender discrimination. BTW, I’m of child-bearing age but can’t have kids because of chemotherapy damage, does that make me a good hire in your view? Or would you view me as a liability because of the cancer thing? It is illegal under federal law, and many state laws, to ask interviewees about children, childcare, or plans to have children. It is also illegal to ask about age or disability. In some states, it is illegal to ask about sexual orientation. No, you cannot fire them because of their kids if they are doing their jobs. Do you not work? Clearly, you have never had workplace anti-discrimination training, which is required for most jobs now.
“In regards to the stay-at-home Dad comment (I wasn’t able to reply above), that is just my opinion. I don’t think I would be attracted to a stay-at-home Dad.
Even with a stay-at-home Dad, there is going to be a period of time where women have to take leave while carrying the baby, giving birth and nursing. What if the woman has, like, four children in a row? I used to argue vehemently for equal pay, but that was before my friends started having children. I had no idea how much it takes out of people ”
I raised some points to this earlier today and you ignored me completely, but I”m going to try again. What does your attraction to a particular type of man have to do with what I or any other woman should be paid? Leave while carrying the baby? Most women work until within one or two weeks of the birth. Some work right up until birth. I’ve had several co-workers go into labor at work and my sister did that with one of her kids. Nursing? Breast pumps! And not everyone breastfeeds. Again, what does equal pay have to do with having children? NOTHING!
“Your summary of my words is off, Kiddo–but it doesn’t even matter, because what I said makes sense, and I’m content with it. I’m not putting this out there to change people’s minds, because people so very rarely understand and value that which makes sense. It’s all about ego in this world, and no one cares about reading comprehension, intellectual honesty, or philosophically coming full circle. I admitted that not being attracted to men who don’t have a profession could just be my thing, and never said that they could never take over the responsibility of raising children”
Sorry, but what you said does not make sense. What you said also has nothing whatsoever to do with reading comprehension. Where do you get that stay-at-home dads don’t have a profession? Okay, you never said that but you have said that women should be paid less because they bear children.
“From a business owner’s perspective, I would prefer to hire a man, over a woman who was getting ready to have a baby, the rest being equal. ” And you would be violating federal anti-discrimination laws. Also, that man you would be willing to hire because he can’t get pregnant? He is eligible for paternity leave under federal law.
@Kiddo: you are right.
Men may not huddle around in a circle, but oh boy, do they bitch and complain about other people.
They don’t call it gossip, but it sure is exactly the same.
Unmade_bed… you sound seriously tragic and I feel really sorry for you. At my workplace, the opposite of the stereotypes you presented is true. You’re just… ew…
Good thing you live in a perfect, idealistic world, CH2. If you are roused to pity and disgust over this, I’d hate to think what real tragedy would do to you.
What does a perfect world have anything to do with it? Stereotypes are what bank on perfection… you expect everyone adheres to you narrow view of things… People here are telling you that the world doesn’t conform to your narrow view point but you are so closed minded that you can’t even hear it. You are really… eww… is the best I can do without being censored. Just disgusting.
“Good thing you live in a perfect, idealistic world, CH2. If you are roused to pity and disgust over this, I’d hate to think what real tragedy would do to you. ” I live in a world where I deal with employment anti-discrimination laws five days a week and sometimes on weekends. I am roused to disgust over your anti-women views, but no, not pity.
CH2 Did you learn your vocabulary on Jimmy Fallon?
Lilac Flowers – You have to at least concede that you may be a little bossy and militant on the subject because of your career. You can’t expect everyone to see things from that point of view. I may be the only person on this site who thinks that if people take off work, for any reason, or are distracted from work, for any reason, their employer is within his/her/its ethical rights to consider docking pay, not giving a raise, or even letting go. However, I feel like this is plain logic, to a certain degree, and at least SOME other people might agree.
“Lilac Flowers – You have to at least concede that you may be a little bossy and militant on the subject because of your career. You can’t expect everyone to see things from that point of view. I may be the only person on this site who thinks that if people take off work, for any reason, or are distracted from work, for any reason, their employer is within his/her/its ethical rights to consider docking pay, not giving a raise, or even letting go. However, I feel like this is plain logic, to a certain degree, and at least SOME other people might agree. ”
Oh, because women who know the law and expect others to comply with it are bossy? No, I do not concede being either militant or bossy on this subject. The point of view I am expressing is the one that happens to be the law of the land. You are not putting forth a view that PEOPLE who are distracted from work for any reason should face consequences in the workplace. You are not putting forth anything logical. You are putting forth the view that women should be paid less because they bear children. So, try it again. If a man or woman fails to complete a project in a timely manner, regardless of the reason, they should face whatever consequences their work agreement outlines (no, you don’t get to arbitrarily apply discipline; there must be consistency by law). Women do not blow deadlines because of their children any more frequently than men do, no matter what you think. And if you were an employer and pulled any of what you have expressed an intent to do on this page, you would deserve to be sued and you would lose. Spectacularly.
CH2 Your life must be, simply, better than mine, because you don’t have to deal with any gossiping shenanigans, on the part of females, at your workplace. Also, you were calling me disgusting, which is pretty low, because I reported what people around me are like, which is not too different from what people have obviously been like, historically. Those stereotypes had to come from somewhere.
Lilac flowers- I’m not, as you say, putting forth the view that women should be paid less because they bear children. I am saying that I can see why they would be paid less, if their motherly duties take them away from work a lot. I also said the same thing about men. Other than that, I said almost exactly what you just repeated, and I don’t understand why you are so upset.
“CH2 Your life must be, simply, better than mine, because you don’t have to deal with any gossiping shenanigans, on the part of females, at your workplace. Also, you were calling me disgusting, which is pretty low, because I reported what people around me are like, which is not too different from what people have obviously been like, historically. Those stereotypes had to come from somewhere.” I’ve been careful not to call you anything in return for which you’ve ignored 99% of my points and labeled me as “bossy” and “militant” because stereotypically, smart women who insist that not every woman must be motherly is a militant and women who uphold laws are bossy? As for dealing with “gossiping shenanigans on the part of females”, people have been explaining to you, to no avail, that no gender holds a monopoly on gossip. Men goof off at work as much as women do. Historically, stereotypes stem from ignorance and bigotry, not from historical fact.
I would recommend that you read this very carefully, as well as the actual statute, but I won’t because I don’t want to be “bossy” or “militant” because, as Mitt Romney once told Shannon O’Brien: “it’s unbecoming,” I won’t. But perhaps others may wish to read it. http://www.eeoc.gov/laws/statutes/titlevii.cfm
“Lilac flowers- I’m not, as you say, putting forth the view that women should be paid less because they bear children. I am saying that I can see why they would be paid less, if their motherly duties take them away from work a lot. I also said the same thing about men. Other than that, I said almost exactly what you just repeated, and I don’t understand why you are so upset. ”
Nice try! I am quite far from “upset”. But I’m quite familiar with that trick. When a woman consistently proves one wrong: accuse her of being “upset,” “shrill,” “bitchy,” or tell her that her conduct is “unbecoming.” No, you most certainly did not say the same thing about men. At all. Anywhere. At any time. You’re trying to backtrack and you’re drowning in your own words.
Lilac Flowers et. al. You consider yourselves, and the like, the only true feminists. However, we don’t all believe in blending genders and gender roles. We don’t all believe that porn/prostitution, casual sex or objectifying oneself is empowering. We don’t all believe that having an abortion is anything to be flippant about. Women like you seem to hate women like me and don’t even bother to engage in honest dialogue. I still cherish the biologically and historically feminine and sacred aspect of being a female and don’t expect the world to conform to some new invented reality. Of course, I demand the right to vote, to divorce an abusive or cheating husband, to have power over my own body and sexuality, to be treated with dignity and respect, and to be paid equally if I am working as much and as well as my male colleague. However, I don’t demand equal pay if I am one of the women who is not.
There is a lot of internalized misogyny going on here. Some women really do thrive on putting down other women or being ignorant to their struggles so they can be rewarded by the status quo for being viewed as one of the few good ones. Uncle Tom syndrome at its finest.
Lord have mercy, can we not discuss?! You don’t realize that the opinions on this site, while virulent, are not everything? There is a whole world out there where people actually live, and it’s not perfect: women still objectify themselves and are objectified (behavior that is often insensibly defended by feminists), business owners make employment decisions for selfish reasons (capitalism), and there isn’t enough time in one life to do everything we, as women, are now expected to do. The men I know can NOT handle household chores and management. Maybe you all are surrounded by humans who have evolved well beyond all of my disgusting realities, as you say–and you live in socialist paradise, as well.
Yes, unmade_bed, you were having a discussion, but obviously you don’t like it when others disagree with you and take offense to your stereotypes.
(By the way, it is ILLEGAL for an interviewer to ask questions about someone’s family plans or to hire and fire on this basis; if you’re as intellectual and career-minded as you claim, then how do you not know this?)
As for that “whole world where people actually live”, you’ll never get there or succeed in life if you can’t get beyond your own self-limiting stereotypes.
Please stop with the Uncle Tom comparisons; you are not even close on this one.
@unmade_bed, the men you know cannot handle household chores? Really? How do they exist before they marry? Or when divorced or widowed? What renders them incapable of doing household chores?
Lilacflowers – Before they married: Their mothers. Divorced or widowed: Their daughters and granddaughters. I’m not joking, or “trolling,” or whatever. This is exactly how life has played out for my family and friends.
Laura – I’m not necessarily career-minded. I don’t have employees. This is all hypothetical, based on how I think capitalism works. I really don’t like it when people “take offense to my stereotypes,” because they are not MY stereotypes. What I mentioned about women, gay men and straight men really was a pattern of behavior I witnessed in the workplace.
And around and around we go…
It’s like “Who’s on First?” with you.
“Lilacflowers – Before they married: Their mothers. Divorced or widowed: Their daughters and granddaughters. I’m not joking, or “trolling,” or whatever. This is exactly how life has played out for my family and friends. ”
You do realize that the mean marriage age for men in the United States is 29, right? Few men live with their mothers until age 29. Their daughters and granddaughters? Right, the five year old daughter is doing the laundry for dad? What if he doesn’t have a daughter when he divorces? Does he move back in with mom?
“Laura – I’m not necessarily career-minded. I don’t have employees. This is all hypothetical, based on how I think capitalism works. I really don’t like it when people “take offense to my stereotypes,” because they are not MY stereotypes. What I mentioned about women, gay men and straight men really was a pattern of behavior I witnessed in the workplace. ”
Only one workplace, apparently. And even that one for a very short time. Not career-minded? I do hope your trust fund lasts a very long time. Or are you expecting some man to support you? Good luck with that! How you think capitalism works? Capitalism does not stereotype genders.
@Laura in LA, who’s on first? But that’s baseball. That only applies to men, don’t you know? Because – historical stereotypes must be upheld.
If unmade_bed is actually woman.
It wouldn’t be the first male troll to pose as a feminist or anti-feminist to stir up trouble.
“Maybe some women don’t deserve to make what their male counterparts make. ” And some men don’t deserve to make what their female counterparts make. If they come to the job with the same training, education, experience, and skill set and perform the job to the same level, they deserve the same amount of pay and benefits. Your stereotyping is really disturbing, sorry.
unmade_bed is just trolling, it took me quite a few comments to come to that conclusion.
In the case of bearing children, I think the stereotyping came from our Creator.
I don’t even know what “trolling” is. I am not an Internet person, and I don’t comment nearly as frequently as you all. I just have an opinion, which is only slightly different from your own.
In the case of bearing children? Again, what does that have to do with managing a Walmart? Or being a CPA? Or performing scoliosis surgery? Our Creator? My Creator opposes bigotry, which is what stereotyping is. You do know that people have different definitions for “The Creator”, right? Also the Judao-Christian one decided that many people would be “barren.” Should they be subject to your rules and stereotypes too?
@Kiddo, I’m a bossy militant who needs a Comet Sophie but is out of vodka so I’ll laugh at the troll. Hodor!
@unmade_bed, if you’re not an internet person and ‘don’t know what trolling is’, you wouldn’t know that trolling was specifically an internet term.
Fail.
Ok, so if she and a male (brother, colleague whatever) both mowed a large lawn. He was paid $20.00. She was paid $15.00. They both did exactly half each. Is she seriously expecting us to believe she would be happy being short-changed $5.00?
WHATEVERRRRR!
She probably is being short-changed, comparatively speaking, to her male counterparts at Fox.
“You betcha entitlement class moose hunting liberalism elitist socialist real MURICA gotcha journalism appalled patriot.”
Oh, lol, Kaiser, thanks for the chuckle.
“appalled patriot” – I love that.
Go home, Dionne, you’re drunk! (Sorry, but someone had to say it.)
I seriously wonder if she is trolling us all and laughing all the way to the bank with her Fox “News” money. After all surely she realized that opportunities for black actresses were few and far between compared to white actresses. This may be the best acting she has done in her life…truly Oscar worthy if she is totally faking being an ultra conservative mouthpiece for an alleged news channel.
I bet she denies the Haulacaust too. And thinks the moon landing was an Oliver Stone conspiracy. Moron.
I swear anyone working for Fox News just argues for the sake of arguing. It’s sad to see a woman actually saying it’s okay there’s wage inequality and that if a woman is getting paid less, than she simply isn’t extraordinary enough and didn’t negotiate hard enough. Well, there’s a lot of men that aren’t extraordinary either but they get paid a heck of a lot more and don’t have to negotiate for fair pay. That’s where there’s a double standard. We shouldn’t have to work any harder for the same wage, just because we don’t have a certain male part. It’s not about playing victim, it’s about starting an outcry so that as women, we are heard and so there is change. If no one talks about serious issues, we end up in the same place we always were and that’s when we become victims.
She’s so beautiful, some people just shouldn’t talk. She’s one of them.
Is anyone going to mention that her skin is several shades lighter than it use to be
I’m sure my situation was not uncommon- buts few years ago I worked for a non profit where I was a supervisor over two people, one male and one female. The male and I were around the same age (two years apart), with the same degree (masters in counseling therapy as well as both being licensed) and we were in The field for the exact amount of time and he made significantly more than me. To add insult to injury he did not have to do reports or anything that our boss deemed as ” women’s work” . The kicker – the boss was a woman.
Is anyone wearing bandage dresses anymore?
only Clueless ppl.
She is SO missing the point! “Be extraordinary. Work harder.” So – we work harder and better than an average man to get what he gets? No. That’s not celebrating educated women – that’s validating the mediocre, marginally talented man!
And as for the comment further upthread about women being unreliable workers because they talk about their kids and have to take time off to take care of their kids: How nice for you to make sweeping decisions based on your own, limited personal experience, when every study out there shows that women work harder, have stronger work ethic, and work better in teams than their male counterpoints. Also, it sounds like you want a workplace where people are chained to their cubicles, don’t interact or take vacation time, so good luck being the boss of anyone, male or female!
She doesn’t get it and doesn’t want to. So tragic.
Oh, she might in a few more years and more spandex.
She doesn’t even deserve all that much credit for her great character in Clueless. It was a well written part, but her contribution was mostly rockin’ the great costumes and delivering a few well timed sassy lines.
Uh, who is she?
Please tell me,F list actress who played the title character’s best friend in a movie twenty years ago, how the world works? You seem to have all the answers.
Classic inferiority complex. Her self-hatred is so ingrained that it naturally extends to her political beliefs.
I find extremists of either side of the political spectrum exhausting.
can you tell me an extremist left wing viewpoint that you’re referring to? People say this a lot but I can’t ever figure out which viewpoint exactly they are talking about…
“Our struggle today is not to have a female Einstein get appointed as an assistant professor. It is for a woman schlemiel to get as quickly promoted as a male schlemiel.”
This woman is living proof that you can’t fix stupid.
I see. But how does she feel about “thigh gaps?” She seems much more qualified to comment on that.
Wow. There’s just so much…internalized misogyny there. And contradiction. I’d love to hear somebody play this back to her so she can hear how crazy it really sounds.
A. Who are you? B. Why do you believe you may speak for all women? C. You may have your opinion; regardless of how wrong and incorrect your thoughts / words may be. D. You’re in a position to help raise up other women and yet you hold them down. E. Shame On You, whomever you are!
Statistically women work fewer hours, for fewer years and take significantly more leave then their male counterparts – in light of this I’d be more worried if there wasn’t a pay gap.
What really bothers me is the way that women jump on other women – as if we’re just some homogenous gender group that should think alike. We talk about being “pro-choice”, but apparently not when it comes to thought, opinions or beliefs. The hypocrisy is stunning.
Are you talking about Stacey or the commenters here? Because both could apply. She was making statements largely about legislation and how she was going to fight it, and that may impact all women, some who may or may not share her opinion. And her podium reaches a much larger number of people than people disagreeing or contemplating her points on a gossip website.
She obviously was able to espouse positions on equal pay, why do you believe that people with different positions shouldn’t respond? Or is it the language or manner that offends you?
I’m asking sincerely. She is, of course, entitled to an opinion, but she wasn’t making a statement ONLY about what she thought was appropriate for her own life. She made comments for women, in general. Which, again, is her prerogative, but as you don’t have to agree with some here, they don’t necessarily have to agree with her, KWIM?
Would it make a difference to you if people were arguing against a man’s position? Is it more of an offense because she is a woman? Again, no snark, trying to get a handle.
Careful, Kiddo, you may end up being labelled a “bossy militant” like me.
Ha! I would be more than willing to admit my part in biting sarcasm at times.
But I also swing that way even with celebs I like. I think it’s difficult for people when they feel that they (and their positions) are in limited numbers on a site. This site runs pretty liberal, but it’s also a private site, so they can moderate as they please, sometimes it has nothing to do with politics. If you go out into the wild west of the internet (in general) and on some right-leaning sites, comments get WAY WAY nastier than most anything that happens here. I’m not saying that makes it better. I don’t hate this Stacey person, but I’m not seeing a lot of depth and consideration. so *shrugs*. I can respect that you* have an opinion but I don’t have to respect the opinion itself or necessarily the deliverer of the opinion. She’s made herself a political public person now.
*hypothetical “you” in policy.
I think the silicone migrated to her brain and killed vital cells. *sigh*
Stacy….please be quiet.
She’s probably just saying what FOX news tells her what to say in order to get a paycheck for doing no work.