As we heard last week and this week, 15-year-old Rocco Ritchie is on the outs with his mom, Madonna. Madonna and Guy Ritchie have had joint custody of Rocco since their divorce, and for what it’s worth, before a few months ago, Rocco seemed to be totally fine with both of his parents. But something about teenage angst mixed with Madonna’s Rebel Heart Tour made Rocco want to “run away.” When Madonna’s tour came to London in early December, Rocco left his mom and went to his dad’s home, and Rocco has refused to leave his dad’s place ever since. Madonna tried to drag her son and her ex-husband into court before Christmas to settle this dispute, only to have the whole thing blow up into an even bigger, more public mess.
As I’ve been saying, part of the problem is that Madonna and Guy Ritchie still sort of hate each other. I actually think Guy is pretty much over it – he’s moved on with a fertile, young wife who had three babies back-to-back, and Guy never makes any public swipes at Madonna because… well, I don’t think he cares, and he doesn’t need to anyway. But Madonna still has feelings, and those feelings resemble anger and rage. Sources close to Madonna told TMZ that in Madonna’s mind, Guy has been working to drive a wedge between Madge and her son for years. Sources say that because Madonna is the hyper-controlling disciplinarian, Guy always gets to be the easy-going good-guy dad, and Guy used his anger at Madonna to try to convince Rocco to disobey Madonna. Or something. But after TMZ ran that story, other sources came forward and said NOPE, Rocco was just sick of his mom and Guy had little to do with it.
Madonna’s son didn’t have to be sold by Guy Ritchie when the 15-year-old made the decision to stay in London … we’re told Rocco was fed up with the singer, her lifestyle and her parenting skills. Sources who were on Madonna’s tour tell us, Rocco was “miserable” being carted around the world by his mom. As one source put it, “There were horrible, full-blown fights with screaming and crying.”
We’re told during the Stockholm leg of the tour, Rocco was a no-show when the charter plane was ready to take off … he had made an escape run, but it appears he eventually came back.
Things deteriorated during the London shows in December. Rocco told his dad he couldn’t handle it anymore … he couldn’t take the traveling and the fights. Our sources say Rocco told Guy he felt like Madonna treated him more like a trophy than a son. Rocco now thinks his mom is jealous of his dad’s “stable life” and his desire to live with his dad.
Rocco has been ordered to return to NYC for a court hearing. It will be interesting to hear if his bad feelings dissipate and how much the judge considers his living preference.
Here’s the thing: I can totally see how this could really be Rocco’s perspective. After a life spent with Madonna as your mother, growing up with her self-perpetuating drama machine, her backup dancer lovers, her tours, her craziness, well… a regular, stable family life with his dad and stay-at-home stepmom and young half-siblings must seem like an exotic paradise. My body language analysis says that Rocco is very comfortable with his stepmother, Jacqui, and he just seems more relaxed in general around his dad. I bet his life is a lot less dramatic and a lot more stable with his dad too. And yes, I do think all of that pisses off Madonna. The custodial hearing is going to be a mess.
Photos courtesy of WENN, Fame/Flynet.
Why should Guy make swipes about Madonna. He received a hefty financial settlement from her didn’t he?
I doubt that Guy got involved and somehow engineered his son’s behaviour. He has other things to balance, such as his other children, work, etc.
Madonna’s own behaviour is to blame. One can only imagine how awkward it would be for a teenager to see their mother cavorting with other younger men and so on, which is what Madonna is known for, then there are the photographs she posts of her son, which depict him looking downright awkward.
She just gets tackier as she ages and needs to realise that, yes, we have all seen her and her dangly bits, before and we’ve all pretty much reached the eyeroll stage.
Put it away Madonna. Have some self respect and decorum.
You mean the hefty financial settlement that he’d made a big deal about how he had his own money and wasn’t going to ask for any of Madonna’s? That financial settlement? And he definitely has made rude comments about Madonna over the years, but he doesn’t exactly give a ton of interviews. Guy Richie is a jerk. I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again: this is a man that married one of the most powerful women in the world and then tried to diminish her.
I’m with with Bridget here. Guy Ritchie is a Dbag. And I remain horrified by his bragging about the money he gouged out of her after years of saying he would never take a penny from her. Also saying that sleeping with her was like ‘sleeping with gristle’.
EM (in response to your comment below): The diminishing part was like a chicken and egg thing on both their parts. Guy Ritchie definitely diminished and belittled her, BUT I think in the beginning Madonna found it attractive to make herself smaller. I remember a comment she made early in their marriage where it appeared she was simultaneously amused and found it refreshing to give into Guy’s super macho persona. Long term, not so much.
Irrespective of whatever Richie is, the teen must be going through crap to run off. I had a parent who’d pull similar shit like Madonna all the time. When I ended up leaving school at 17, because I could no longer cope with the emotional rollercoaster that was my parent, the cow turned up at the school to humiliate me and pretend she was the concerned parent, pretty similar to the way Madonna engages lawyers to make headlines, not stopping to think that it’s her behaviour that alienates her child.
My crap occurred more than twenty years ago & it still makes me angry as it disrupted my life at a certain point. High maintenance parents. Who f%ing needs them?
@LAK
Guy Ritchie said that??? About the gristle, money etc.? I don’t like Madonna , but jeez, she the mother of his children, that is cold.
I think Rocco has every right to not want to be around his mother, for ever long as he needs to be away. Madonna lives and breathes and loves Madonna. We all know that. I think she loves her kids in her own self absorbed way, but Rocco has a right to walk away from the circus. But she will remember this, and if he continues to need distance from her, she will not leave him one tiny crumb even too small for a mouse (sorry, still remembering the grinch who stole Christmas).
EM: I hear you about toxic, high maintenance parents.
Cindy: yep. I’ll google search his interviews immediately post-divorce and post the links as I find them.
His comments about the money and comparing her to gristle were so horrid that i’ve never been able to look at him favourable even with passage of time. He may be more mellow and possibly nicer, but those comments were very revealing. And I bet his current wife is the ‘little’ woman in every way according to his super macho persona.
@EM: we also project a lot onto Madonna based on our perception of her public persona, and not to mention her age. A lot of what we think of her is based on the fact that she’s in her 50s and still insists on showing her body (how dare she!). But look at Madonna’s older daughter Lourdes, who has turned into a pretty normal, well-adjusted kid. A lot of this conflict between Madonna and Rocco sounds like normal teenage – parent butting heads, but unfortunately playing out very publicly. We’ve made an awful lot of assumptions about how the relationship between Madonna and her son must be based on our own perception of Madonna, and information that we’ve selectively chosen. Madonna being kind of ridiculous doesn’t automatically mean that Guy Richie is awesome. He’s not.
And I will say this: as a child of divorced parents, ‘running off’ isn’t a last resort. In many ways, knowing that you have another parent’s home to retreat to can make arguments harder, and gives less incentive to work things out constructively, because you can just leave (and this is especially true when the other parent isn’t exactly dedicated to the kid working things out with the parent they’re arguing with). It can be either a safety net or a weapon.
Most powerful woman of the world? Lol. She is vain, effing 20 yr old boys while having her toddlers around. Rocco has a teen would be embarassed as any teen having to see mom province half naked singing provocative songs while posting degrading pics n comments about him. Guy don’t know him, seems to be the most stable parent as environmental wise.
Preach!!!!
It’s debatable as to whether he tried to diminish her or she permitted that when she married him. She doesn’t have a great relationship track record and tends to allow men to treat her like dirt, e.g. Sean Penn.
Still, that doesn’t justify her using her so called power, to post images of her son when that son does not appear to like it.
There is nothing likeable about Madonna.
My point was, people are making an awful lot of assumptions about Guy, and how idyllic life must be with his new young wife and his country estate, and forgetting that he’s always been a hyper-macho jerk. Everything we’ve read (an in, what’s actually come out, not what Commenters guess and suppose) sounds like normal parent-teenager conflict. WE’RE the ones saying he must hate the Instagram posts. WE’RE the ones saying he must want to hang out with infant siblings (you know, exactly what all 15 year Olds want to do).
I think people just assume that he provides a more stable home than Madonna, not that he is a saint.
She should’ve stayed with Jellybean.
Oh Dangles, Jellybean Benitiz was so hot.
I think we all hoped Madonna would take aging well. However, it has been the most painful process to watch.
She doesn’t want to be old, she doesn’t want her children to grow-up and leave her but mostly, I don’t think she wants to be alone.
On Ellen, Madonna talked about her depression once Lourdes went to college. I think her way of working through it was by putting all her focus on her other children.
She should be prepared for this. I believe Lourdes tried to runaway and live with her father too.
If Madonna loses custody prepare for a full breakdown.
I agree. While I find her ridiculous and tiring nowadays, I think there is a bigger issue.
She’s one of those people that wants their child to be their “best friend,” overshares with them and smothers them, and then can’t handle it when the child wants to be a child and have a best friend that’s their own age, not their mom.
What tosh! Madonna does and always will do her thing. Ageing has nothing to do with this. I write this as a normal, non-celebrity mother of teenage kids where things spiral out of control and lead to explosives scenarios where horrible things are said, people threaten to move out, people are told that they might be happier moving out and everyone in the family feels like shite afterwards. We don’t know the details of what happened here but I am sure everyone in this family, Madonna, Guy and the kids feel terrible, especially as this went so far, got to court and became public. I hope everyone can keep their heads and let things cool down. Family dramas are always dreadful (and worse pre-xmas).
All of this reminds me of a young attorney in my town who told me his family’s law firm stopped doing divorce / family law cases because, as he put it, ‘there are no winners’.
Doesn’t Madonna have control over the people on her tour? Who is giving these quotes to the press? Shut it down, Madge.
That’s probably part of the problem. Too many people up and in Rocco’s business. So he has bolted to the quiet English countryside. Maybe it will be good for him.
Yes, all those involved need to respect the kid’s privacy. He’s old enough to make the decision with which parent he wants to live. I feel for him. He probably does have his bratty moments – because he is 15. I hope that his parents come to a calm and mature agreement and things settle down for him.
Starting with Madonna though. Quit posting stuff about your teenage son on social media. That is a no brainer. No teen wants their parents posting any kind of crap about them on social media.
Guy and family live in London, not the country house. The country house would bore Rocco at the age of 15 to tears being there as the main residence day to day. London would not.
I think he’s just acting out like any other 15 yr old, God knows I did act out against my mother at that age and asked my father if I could live with him and he said no. When I got older I realized I was better off living with my mother and now at 44 I still have issues with her but I can’t deny she was the better parent
This is a kid that will never grow up normal like the rest of us because of who his parents are and even at that, despite the public persona display, I think he’ll be better off with her in the long run
If Guy is worried about his son’s upbringing why until now? She was a parent when they decided to have a kid and she was more controversial than these days. I think he just wants to piss her off and Rocco’s situation is an opportunity for him to do so.
1) Rocco looks so much like her brother Christopher Ciccone.
2) Maybe Rocco’s not down with this whole era of ‘besties w/Sean Penn,’ thing. Perhaps both he and Guy Ritchie know Sean beat her, and they question the wisdom of her lying for Penn, just to sue only ONE of the 357,000 people who have suggested Penn abused her over the last 3 decades – a guy who just happens to be a successful black director.
Maybe Guy and Rocco know she’s full of shite.
Re: Rocco’s opinion of Sean Penn: I think the fact that he is channelling Sean Penn’s character ‘Spicholli’ from the film FAST TIMES AT RIDGEMONT HIGH with regards his current look says he doesn’t dislike Sean Penn. If he disliked him, he wouldn’t style himself after one of the most memorable characters of Sean Penn’s career.
LAK – agreed, but he’s also a child just following trend. I can show you 100 boys who look like him walking around Bedstuy, Greenpoint, LES in New York right now.
I feel sad for him. Parents aren’t average but those teen feelings are the norm. He should be left alone so he comes around in his relationship w Madonna on his own. In 3 years he is 18, why cause more resentment and obstinance?
On a superficial note….is his (Rocco’s) garb in the 1st pic ironic, I’m baffled ?
As am I. This poor kid is appears to be deep in a very awkward phase
Why? He’s just a kid who is asserting his individuality. He likes being different from everyone else. My nephew is the same way. He has a truly oddball sense of style that has nothing to do with what other kids wear and he’s adamant about being that way, not a conformist. It ends up that confidence doesn’t cause ridicule in school, but he’s one of the most popular, not that anyone is trying to dress like him, though. LOL
I didnt actually mean his clothes. I too am a fashion oddball and always have been. But I used to be an 8th grade teacher and he just reminds me of all my gawky, awkward boys. I really didn’t mean that too come across as ugly. They grow out of it and carry off whomever they choose to be!
Rocco was such an adorable little boy. He’s clearly smack in the center of that awkward teen phase, but he’ll pass through it very soon and will be a handsome young man with a better understanding and acceptance of himself. This picture where he looks like Jeff Spiccoli in those awful pants and shirt is is already over half a year old. Like most teens he’s probably already moved on to new – and possibly crazier – fashions. He might end up in khakis and button-up shirts like this dad by the end of it all.
He looks like a teenage boy. Not anything crazier than what Jaden Smith would wear.
On another note, is anyone else getting Leslie Mann vibes from the stepmom? Gorgeous lady.
He isn’t awkward, He is channelling ‘Spicholli’ a movie character played by Sean Penn in the film FAST TIMES AT RIDGEMONT HIGH. It’s an iconic character and gave notice of Sean Penn’s future stardom.
‘Spicholli’ gave the world the ‘stoner surfer dude’ movie trope.
I’d say he is paying Sean Penn a high compliment by going around dressed and styled like him.
(or perhaps it’s creepy thing to do considering SP and Madonna’s past relationship)
Lourdes did the same thing with her fashion line Material girl where she channelled Madonna’s look from the early 80s circa DESPARATELY SEEKING SUSAN era.
It’s a phase.
i think Rocco is really the only one of her offspring with the real option of living elsewhere. David is technically Guy’s adopted son, but I don’t know if that situation would be the same. Lourde’s Dad is bought & paid for and Mercy is just stuck.
Madge has been singing hate filled songs about Ritchie since the breakup and is probably the one bad mouthing him to thier son; I’d bet on it.
David is Guy’s child in exactly the same way that Rocco is. When will folks understand that adopted children are the same as biological children?? The only difference is biology. There is no special custody law concerning the relationship between an adopted child and his parents. There is zero doubt in my mind that David and Rocco have identical custody arrangements with their parents.
Thank you for posting this. As a mom who adopted a child, people are so ignorant about stuff like this. Good reminder.
Unfortunately celebrity adoptions often do work differently from real world adoptions, though. As do celeb divorces and custody cases. $$$$$
David spends just as much time with Guy as Rocco. They (Guy and David) have been pictured spending time with each other when Rocco was with his mom and he was also present in the wedding pictures of Guy and Jacqui.
Lourdes also spends a lot of time with her dad and she moved away from her mom for her studies.
Rocco danced in her MDNA tour, the tour that featured some violent songs about the break-up of her marriage.
People see things that aren’t there.
There’s an age where we dislike our parents so much, we believe there’s a huge disconnect and we’re strangers. But then we get older and realize what assholes we’ve been, we appreciate them for who they are when we’re both adults and it gets so much better. I think Madonna is just making it worse, shut this down, listen to your son and give it time.
Ah, the stories left and right. Madonna was too strict of a mother, blah, blah. Now, Madonna treated him like a trophy, not a son, blah, blah.
Probably 80 percent of these stories have nothing to do with the truth of what’s going on, which is really easy. He’s fifteen. He doesn’t want to be on tour with mom and he is a teenager also with the friction that comes with that in fights with his mom, and it has escalated to blowups, and he’s at his dad’s and wants to stay there, at least for now while she goes back on tour for the second leg for the next three months, and maybe he wants to stay there permanently and enjoy London and being with his dad, or maybe after three months there he will miss his friends (not mom at that age) and will want to go back to NYC and get back on with his life there and friends.
The bottom line is he does not want to be on tour with mom and the fights will just get worse and wants to get back to his life, which at 15 is very social. Your friends are everything. You are breaking away from your parents in many ways.
I agree with you. He’s fifteen and wants some stability in his life. Having famous parents is probably a blessing and a curse.
There’s so many assumptions going on here. Madonna MUST be a Narcissistic Personality. Madonna MUST be too lax. Madonna is having a hard time aging so she MUST be pushing Rocco too much. Guy lives in the English Countryside, it MUST be better with him. We don’t hear much from Guy, he MUST be a nice guy. Guy is married to a young woman who doesn’t flaunt her body in front of us, Rocco MUST want to hang out there and have a nice, normal family. Madonna FORCED Rocco to tour with her. Sheesh.
Are you the parent of a teenager? Have you been?
Any parent of a teenager knows how their emotional they can be and the issue of privacy does arise as an issue. Most teenagers do not want their parents broadcasting their lives on Instagram or other social media. It’s a different kettle if the teenager does it of their own accord, but when parents do it, it’s usually different. Here is Madonna pretty much taking her son on tour with her, merely because she has custody. Is a tour the place for the teenager? What relationships is he going to have or develop with people who are considerably older than him or is he going to hang around his mother all day and each day? I doubt it, not when she is rehearsing and so on. So it pretty much makes for a lonely existence.
When you’re 50 plus and you’re practically getting out your kit every so often, i.e. posting images of your boobs for global assurance on the same account you use to post pictures of your son/children, you have age issues. And even when you’re not 50 plus and your posting suggestive images of yourself a la Kardashian on the same account as your children appear in, it’s inappropriate and tacky, not to mention embarrassing for any teen.
You are really projecting an awful lot onto this kid.
the quotes are probably made up.
Maybe Madonna could be doing all of this, and her son just wants to live with his Dad and his “stable” life, or maybe he is 15 and Mom is a bit more strict and Dad and step mom aren’t. Custodial issues aren’t generally decided because a kid wants to have a less strict parent. Good luck to them all, and my personal opinion is that a lot of this has to do with being 15. For a lot of children at this age being with the same sex parent is helpful, but Guy Ritchie isn’t your average parent either so this may not be the best solution either.
I think you’re right. about this.
What is going on with David, their other son? Where was he during the tour? He is pretty young so maybe he isn’t bothered by Madge’s escapades yet.
And poor Mercy. She isn’t Guy’s child, so she won’t have an alternate parent to turn to when she reaches the age that Madonna becomes unbearable.
She has David and Mercy with her. Where do you expect they are?
They could be at home, with nannies going to school.
@Swack, they are going to school. I’m sure she has the best tutors/teachers around when she tours.
It’s six months out of their lives, for Goodness sake. September to March, with a couple of breaks back at home like three weeks during Christmas or small breaks i the country they are in like France by the sea. It’s not like it’s some horrible thing. I’m pretty sure they want to be with mommy, not a nanny back at home.
Angelina’s kids travel their whole lives on and on and on, no year in one place going to school, and it’s a good thing. Angelina is having her kids work after home school on her new project, and ooh, ah. But Madonna, burn her at the stake for not raising lazy kids.
After three years off the road where Madonna’s kids live in their regular home and go to school, Madonna’s kids are with her for six months and it’s some horrible thing. What a horrible mother. How dare Madonna have her kids get work ethic by working a “little” on tour in the behind the scenes during the actual show a few nights a week. It turns into she took her kids out of school to work nonstop. She’s rich. She travels by private planes and stays in luxury and sets up fun things for her kids to do while she’s touring. They aren’t shuffled away. It’s not exactly l like a band on a tour bus. McCartney took all of his kids every tour, but, oh, he was a family man. Praise him.
It’s all a bit much on here. Send him to Guy where he will be off directing and his perfect stay-at-home wife can take care of him. Madonna is evil.
I don’t even have a problem about Rocco not wanting to tour at 15 for those six months. The last tour, back in 2012, was more in the middle of the year. Lola was only with her for the summer months and then went home to go backk to high school. This time she started in the fall, so I get that Rocco isn’t happy. But the overkill of Madonna on here taking her kids on the road every three or four years for a period of time is
Maybe he wants to hang around other teens his own age? Rather than his mother, siblings and a troupe of dancers.
Jayna, it’s pretty much easy to assume that being a good parent is synonymous with having loads of money to pay for education, but the thing is when children switch between schools due to locations and career demands, their chances for developing meaningful friendships are rather limited. So at the end of the day it’s really all about Madonna’s schedule – even though she doesn’t need to tour, she doesn’t need the money.
I’ve been around controlling, insecure, narcissists. They are HELL to deal with. I can’t begin to imagine how hard it must be to be stay in a relationship with one, let alone have one as a mother when you’re both repelled by her and also bound to her by a deep biological bond.
Lola on the other hand seems to get along with her. At least there are no reports about potential fights. I have a feeling that it has to do with him as a son and his father. Maybe the trophy thing isn’t that far fetched…
What are the traits of a narcicisstic mother? Because I see glimpses of it in my friend’s mother and it’s scary. And he says that she’s great most of the time, but some of the things he told me about her are awful. She used to tell him he’s fat, lazy, worthless, how all her friends have better kids pretty much on a daily basis when they used live together. Whenever he tried to confront her about it, she would act like she did nothing wrong. She would also cry all day about how hard her life is and how everyone treats her horribly. Even now whe she gets like that he feels sorry for her and it drives me crazy. He is the nicest, kindest guy I know, but he has major self esteem issues, anxiety issues etc. and I’m not a psychologist, but I think his childhood had an impact on that.
No doubt your friend’s mom has done a number on him. Anxiety, low self-esteem – classic symptoms of an unhappy home. Yet he loves his mother. It’s a fiercely strong bond between mother and child. Actually, the love and the bond is what makes a child grow into a such a mess as an adult. It’s not a relationship that he or she can simply abandon. It’s his MOTHER. Anyone else he could kick to the curb. But not her.
I don’t know if this woman is a narcissist or not. She may have other issues, but for sure she’s sounds like she’s in deep need of therapy, and so is her poor son.
The other thing is, I’ve known him for years, but before he told me I had no idea. They looks so great from the outside. When he told me I started to see it, but just a bit. And he is such a kind person, he was always a great student, he’s very funny and everyone likes him. I had no idea he was struggling so bad on the inside.
OMG Locke Lamora, that sounds like my mother exactly! It is hell to deal with. There is a reason I live on another continent …
If this is just about what a horrible mom she is then there should be concern for other kids too. Guy for instance has two sons with Madonna. Why isn’t he rescuing David from Madonnas clutches too if she is so bad? Why does Lourdes come across as one of the more grounded celebrity kids around? In fact I always thought Rocco seemed more spoilt then Lourdes. I don’t think its as simple as you say.
I don’t think Guy has anything to do with this. He’s not “rescuing” Rocco, just being his Dad. It’s Rocco who left Madonna.
This. The woman has how many children and yet this is the first time we’ve heard of any issues or even seen her children have a public spat.
It’s amazing how much personal dislike for a person can make us happy to accuse them of everything from being a whore to being a bad mother without a shred of proof.
Personal dislike? ‘m not a big fan and I don’t dislike her either. She herself talked about her strict rules when it comes to her children. And everyone knows that she’s at least a bit narcissistic. People accuse her because that’s the public image she’s creating. I don’t know if she’s a bad mother, but I can totally see why he would get away from her.
Rocco is 15. The others are younger. It’s more likely for Rocco to be recognised by British courts, to be capable of deciding where he wants to live. Only in America are teenagers treated like infants that have no mind.
Rocco was happy to live with his mom at David’s age, too. She might just be better at dealing with younger kids. My mother was like that – wonderful with small children. Still good but getting baffled as we grew into grade school years. Completely baffled when we hit our teens… She was always yelling at my older brother and he was always yelling back, I just kept telling myself that someday I would take my cat and leave and never have to live with these people again…. Mom was a good person and certainly not a narcissist. But her idea of dealing with conflict was to ignore it, which isn’t very useful when dealing with anybody but certainly a big fail with teenagers. Madonna’s problem is more likely her need to control everything, which she can do with younger children. She also may be leaning on her kids too much for emotional support, her reaction to her older daughter going to college reflects that: depression rather than joy that her daughter is becoming an independent adult and learning new things. Going after the kid with a court order rather than just saying “okay, honey, maybe a longer time with your dad would be a good change for you right now, let’s try it and see how it goes. I’ll miss you terribly, so promise me you’ll Skype every day!” is so Madonna. She needs to loosen up or else she’s going to have even more difficult times ahead.
I have to agree Sochan. I’ve dealt with a narc dad my whole life and it’s incredibly hard. People have no idea the drama, emotional abuse and instability of living with a narc. They can be charming, deceptive, and then destroy you in the next breath. It’s a never-ending see-saw.
The word “trophy” is a really interesting word choice. Narcs do treat kids like objects, displaying them, especially when you make them look good. My dad would brag about me because of my doctorate to his friends. Meanwhile, he has no clue what I studied, and didn’t show any interest the entire time in anything I work on. He’s never said a single positive thing about it. But when his friends ask, he turns on the charm and brags that I’m smart because I take after him, etc. The classic trophy kid. Meanwhile, my poor brother, who gives my father nothing to brag about, is called loser and worse, even though he’s a good person but not accomplished enough. On the outside, people think my father is great and we’re a good family. What they don’t see is that everyone of us, except my dad, is suffering major health problems and have seen therapists for stress and depression. That’s life with a narc.
As for Madonna, she seems to display these same traits: the NEVER-ending need to be the center of everything, using others to cater to your needs, not seeing others as independent people, using her money to control others, playing silly power games with people’s lives, etc. I read her brother’s book, and if it’s accurate, then that sucks for Rocco.
Even if the kids do seem normal and well adjusted, they may suffer from lack of independent development, lack of self identity, low self esteem, etc. Some kids of narcs also grow up to be total doormats–ripe victims for abuse. Others copy their parents and become mini-narcs. Therapy can help, though.
It sounds like living with a narc parent is akin to being fed a teaspoon of poison daily. Debilitating but not deadly while a child.
So he claims he’s the reason for your success but admits no responsibility for what he considers to be your brother’s shortcomings. You clearly found career success in spite of him, not because of him!
KatyD: Your dad sounds exactly like my mom – when I fell into a depression she didn’t care about my health at all, only that others would find out about it. And heaven forbid I get help …
I am so sorry that you have to go through that!! Sounds like you’re very lucid about the kind of person he is, and that you have a good head on your shoulders, and you owe that to no one but yourself and your hard work. So congrats to you!! And stay strong. Easier said than done, I know.
PS Sorry to all that I keep mentioning my own issues on these madonna threads. These discussions are just reminding me of my relationship with my mother and I kind of feel the need to share. So thanks for your patience!!
Thanks Snazzy! I really appreciate that. Yes, unfortunately, the Madonna threads keep me interested because it reminds me of my father, too. Thanks for sharing. I’m sorry to hear about your mother. It’s sad that she’d places appearances over all else. That’s heartbreaking and I hope that you’re doing better now.
I can totally relate to your experience when you uncover how little the narc cares. My dad was exactly like that when I went to the hospital. I was in bed, waiting for major surgery, and he sat there and talked about his own problems the whole time (he had dented his car door that morning). Then, he said it was my fault and wanted me to console him. That incident was chilling, because I was hoping he’d snap out of ME mode but that never happened.
In front of others, though, he hides it well and plays the good dad role. All my family and neighbors think I have the greatest dad. If they only knew…
KB: I’m not that successful but I do have a degree which I owe entirely to my mother’s encouragement. Unfortunately, she had health problems and passed away. Due to my own health and self-esteem issues, I haven’t really advanced in my career. I have an okay job. It’s the best I can do. My brother is in the exact same boat as me– minus the fancy degree. It’s sad..
Lady D: yes, exactly like that. Even with limited contact with my father, I can still hear the negative things he has said to me from years ago. It’s hard to switch off. Slow poison is a good metaphor.
-Lifts hand- I’m the Narc Parent club too. I call mine Smother Dearest. She’s the woman that would tell me that she would have been better off to have an abortion than have me. Every struggle in her life was because of me. Hell she even slept with an 18 year old when I was 16 because it ‘made her feel young’. Her coupe de grace was to spazz out when I tried to get family members to help me because she was being scammed by some guy on facebook who had her convinced he won a Congressional Medal of Honour and they were going to get married…
So I can totally get Rocco seeing Guy as the lesser evil parent at this point. Better for him to be with Dad [even if he can be a bit of a douche] than do what I did and leave home at 16 to fend for himself because the cold hard world is more appealing than home.
When you get yourself out of their clutches -eventually, and I say eventually because they will still try to find a way to psychologically manipulate, it feels like having to start over again. One has to regroup mentally, rebuild self-esteem, go through a few relapses of uncertainty (“maybe the narcissist parent was right,” etc) and so on. It’s a crappy and disruptive road that can have wider ramifications.
I don’t know about you, but for me, it really wiped out my education until my twenties and it was only at that point -after complete relocation and separation – that I completed my high school education.
I could never complete my education normally because my narcissist parent had us all cleaning up after her, woke us up to prepare coffees and nightcaps for her dates, we were treated like servants and if we didn’t clean well enough, she’d yell, call us inadequate, and ‘which person would ever have a relationship with us,’ etc…then it would be the dark moments, each romantic breakup of hers would be followed by tears and ‘where would I be without you’ etc. A f$%king nightmare.
Those photos of Rocco looking like he discovered hipsters will never get old.
for those going on about Madonna’s young lovers, doesn’t guy have a young lovers too?
But Guy’s a man. Duh. It’s only natural men, something something penis, vaguely slut-shamey comment.
/sarcasm
While there is definitely truth to that, Guy also married and is a committed relationship with his “young lover”. Madonna seems to be more into toyboys. I imagine there wouldn’t be so many comments about Guy providing the more “stable” home life if he were rotating through a new playboy model every year.
Half the roster of celebrity men on Celebitchy are married to their younger lover/divorcing their younger lover.
I don’t think anyone would call Alec Baldwin’s or any of these other men’s relationships stable simply because they married/impregnated their girlfriends.
The difference between Guy being married to a younger woman and Madonna is that Madonna changes her lovers with the same frequency as we change our underwear.
Her children always seem to come second to her. That’s the way her life rolls, Madonna the queen, at least in her mind. I don’t take anything TMZ says seriously, since they’re well…TMZ.
First off, Guy did slate Madonna. Once very publicly so but most times via ‘sources’. Madonna couldn’t help herself but do so publicly and also via ‘sources’ and of course in her music. But people don’t remember or don’t know Guy’s insults because out of the 2 of them, Guy was NEVER going to be the most interesting or famous one, let’s be real…
Madonna herself said during their marriage that she was the strict one and Guy the playful one. Madonna had no problem admitting her strict way of raising kids.
I think Rocco might have overestimated his own discipline and passion. Not many people can do what Madonna does, young or old. She’s very tenacious and focused and there is no one like her when it comes to performing. Her own dancers and choreographers said that she can outdance anybody and her energy is boundless, working with her is like gaining 2 years worth of performing experience in only 6 months. Many dancers are young and childlike and had to ‘clean up their act’ as Madonna doesn’t allow for half-assery. Now throw in a 15-year old who couldn’t keep up with her anymore. Teenagers are fickle and what he liked 3 years ago, can change drastically. 3 years ago he wanted to be on stage and was comfortable doing so (to the discomfort of his mother). Now he was backstage (just like Lourdes) and had to deal with being yelled at and doing ungrateful jobs (just like Lourdes). Touring is quite monotonous and physically draining, maybe he just had enough and Madonna couldn’t accept this work ethic?
It seems weird for a kid who always seemed like the most demanding and attached when it came to his mother to turn against her so spectacularly. He was fine with her a couple of months ago and reposted some stuff she posted (even though people always try to claim that he hates her posts about him!). They spend time together during a holiday. This is the first blip in Madonna’s parenting and therefore I don’t think it’s fair to say she’s to blame entirely.
Stop trying to justify Madonna’s behaviour.
Weren’t you 15 once? What would it take for you to return to your other parent and refuse to return to your mother?
It takes a considerable effort to do that and here you are diminishing her son’s capability and making out that his behaviour is impulsive/rash. I doubt it’s rash for him to appoint a lawyer. He must have reached his limits with his mother. It appears that Madonna cycles through behaviours and it seems that her son had enough. Why should he be keeping up with her? She is his mother, with a duty to her son’s wellbeing. She should be keeping up with him.
Does she not have enough money? She still needs to tour the world and shake her ass, and post images that her son feels uncomfortable about? Why can’t she be a parent? It’s not like she needs so shill albums to survive and pay the rent.
She is the one that has made this news by taking the matter to court. Rocco is not a five year old, he is 15. He is capable of instructing a solicitor and he has a father that can be his guardian. This story did not have to be an international story, but when Madonna’s colossal ego is involved, it simply has to be. She is a repugnant egomaniac.
He doesn’t feel uncomfortable about her pictures of him. He reposted them before. He poses for her pictures on Instagram. He wanted to dance on her previous tour and Madonna allowed him. Nobody is forcing him to do anything. Even as a child, he loved hanging out with the dancers and learning the steps and so did Lourdes (although the former wasn’t allow to work on tour yet). You don’t seem to know much about their touring habits as a family. They always travel together and Madonna tries to start her tour when school is finished.
Before the tour, they were very close. Nothing indicates that he ever disliked her the way he does now so yes, it is SUDDEN. And it happened during her tour, a highly stressful draining time. Lourdes never ran away and also worked on her tour(s). David just a few weeks ago was cuddling up to his mom during public rehearsals. Nothing indicates that she is an awful mom. Her kids like being with her, if you would follow her more than what is reported online, you would know this. Rocco especially seemed extra demanding of her time and with her all the time if he wasn’t with his dad.
Lots of kids of divorced parents swing back and forth, this is common knowledge but in Rocco’s case, he never did this before, indicating that he’s fine with Madonna most of the time. I’m sure they fight like any family.
Get real, Madonna has primary physical custody. This has to go to court as they need to change custody living arrangments if that is what Rocco wants. No kid can (or should) decide out of the blue to just live with the other parent. Can you imagine the madness? You don’t even take into account that some kids are being alienated from the other parent so somebody objective to rule of the custody is a good thing.
The court needs to be involved and seeing how Madonna is one of the most famous women in the world, it would be virtually impossible to hide this. Madonna did not put this news out there nor did she make any public statement after the hearing so she’s not the one making this international news. Nor did Ritchie.
A tour is no place for a child – full stop.
@Artemis Stop being logical. Madonna has to be a horrible mother to fit the horrible person narrative. Rocco wanted to go on tour with his mother. I don’t believe she forced him to go. I think it was fun at first then it felt like a job then it wasn’t fun anymore. I think Rocco would eventually be bored on a set with his father all day.
What happened to all of your previous arguments?
The kids are happy and doing other stuff besides touring. Learning for instance. Madonna also posted stuff that indicates they do different things outside of the hussle and bussle of touring (mainly it seems horseback riding classes). They’re normal kids who have a famous hardworking mom.
She would never leave her kids for months on end to please people who don’t like her anyway nor should she stop working when she has the possibility (unlike many working mothers) to take her kids with her. Loads of performers take their kids with them, why shouldn’t Madonna.
@Artemis, you’re making too much sense. It won’t work. LOL
I’ve been a 15 year old child of divorced parents. It doesn’t take much at all to try to run off to the other parent’s home. It’s like a weapon – “FINE, I’ll just go stay with dad then!”
Are you kidding? There are many cases of kids who are teenagers turning to the other parent. In fact, at this age it is common for a child to gravitate toward the same sex parent, especially boys more girls. This really isn’t all that uncommon or odd, just extremely public. Now it could be used as a weapon as the above poster says, or it could be that you are just more comfortable with the other parent at this stage of life, who knows. Also, kids fighting with their parents as teenagers is about as common as the sky being blue. I am sure this will be settled, probably not in court, but maybe since it does appear that Madonna and Guy have issues. Yes Madonna now does look to be angrier than Guy, although with the anger in the divorce I am sure it wouldn’t take much to push Guy too. Good luck to them all.
@EM
Does Madonna owe you money or something? You seem excessively ragey about this.
Artemis, truly!
Not sure who leaked this, but it’s seemingly not balanced and I am no Madonna apoligist. I’ve been the single mom of a 15 year old ragey kid!
Artemis you assume the kids are happy. The reality is the other two are far too young to do anything. Lourdes is at college.
If a kid was happy, they -i.e. Rocco – wouldn’t be instructing and retaining their own lawyer.
I’ll leave you to figure out why.
FYI I am ragey when I see any parent make something an issue for their own colossal ego.
This matter could have been kept quiet, but no with Madonna it has to be a world issue and no Artemis, family law issues are usually confidential when children are involved and not public, unless someone makes it public.
I work in family law and see kids being used as pawns all the time. Of course it makes me ragey. It doesn’t matter if it’s a rich parent or a parent on legal aid. Dysfunctional parents who allow their ego to dominate always use their children in some way or form to control everything and Madonna has shown so many times, even in her own documentaries, how much of a control freak she is.
You do know that it’s very likely that we know what’s going on because TMZ pays off people that work in the courthouse to tip them off? Not because either side chose to leak the information?
The problem really isn’t the tour, she’s an artist and this is something she feels she needs to do periodically. The two younger kids are probably okay with it and Rocco used to be ok with it. She’s not on tour all the time. But either something happened this time that Rocco might not have told anyone about or conflicts with his mother (normal or not) just reached a boiling point when added to the stress of the tour. She really should have just let him spend more time with his dad when he starting asking for it, that’s a reasonable idea at his age. By trying to keep him too close rather than letting go, she risks losing him.
This doesn’t sound like a conflict between parents. It’s unlikely that Guy instigated or encouraged it. Much more likely that Guy listened to his son and decided he really needed a change for good reason, so he’s supporting his son’s decision. There are undoubtedly many important details we don’t know.
I’m with you.
I’ve said it before on this story, I very much have sympathy for Rocco here. No 15 year old should be touring with his mother anyway, even if it is Madonna. He needs stability, just like all other children, especially children of divorce. Madonna taking this so public and to court is only hurting the situation. Who really knows the dynamic between her and her ex-husband, but I do think if they were mature, responsible adults, they could handle this situation without the need for lawyers and publicity. IMO, Madonna is just making herself look worse and worse in this situation by making it so public. I am sure she genuinely loves her son, but…..lose the ego. Oh, and don’t post ridiculously embarrassing photos on Instagram of your son!
I’m not a Madonna fan although I do admire her ability to stay as relevant as she has. But I have read many times, confirmed by Lourdes, that Madonna is a very strict mother. IMHO Rocco is a typical teen who doesn’t want a short leash. Madonna probably gave him a job on her crew so he could learn the value of work. He probably wants freedom to run around and have his parents finance his fun. Is this kid not in school? Anyway, my guess is that Rocco doesn’t want to be told what to do.
As mother to three teenage boys, I think this analysis seems the most logical, Diane. I have great kids, but they have the attention span of gnats at times, and I have to ask them 20 times to remember to take out the trash when they would rather be playing their video games. Selective hearing, spats, arguments…pretty typical growing up stuff. Kids at this age naturally challenge their parents.
I really don’t think there’s much to see in this story, except that Madonna is obviously a favorite punching bag here. I actually think it’s kind of awesome that Madonna wants her kids with her, and actually puts them to work (when they are old enough). It’s probably much easier to leave them home, in the care of others.
Maybe it’s useful for a teenage boy to spend more time with his male parent when one is willing and available? There’s an age where you outgrow mom and want to look to your other parent as a role model.
I find it disgraceful if Guy went to TMZ. I am definitely no fan of madonna but how is this helpful?None of the things that came from madonna was attacking Guy so here i feel Guy is letting himself down.
Her older daughter seems to have turned out just fine and there doesnt seem to have been much drama between madonna and the older daughters dad, so the conclusion must be that this a headstrong teenage son clashing with his equally headstrong mom and also that his dad isn’t very mature in the way he handles this.
Also this idea of normally of a stable family is a bit over the top, Guy is a movie director he is also away on locations for big parts of the year. So its not like he is going to live in a family where mum and dad are 9-5 workers. Most movie stars, or major artists have this live style and they either bring their kids or don’t see them much at all in periods. This isn’t specific for Madonna.
I feel for the kid, it must be hard to live with a celebrity/artist with a narcissistic personality. Yes, Rocco has everything he will ever need, but I am sure there are days he wants to be a normal teenager and be left alone. Also, I work for a divorce attorney and it is not unusual for teenage boys to want to live with their fathers. Some who are having difficulty actually do better with their dads.
I think it is futile to point finger at the exact cause of this rift, as it is likely a combination of many things. But as a child of divorce and a divorced parent myself I sincerely hope that Guy and Madonna are able to take the high road and not use this as a way to get back on each other. Because it will only mess up the kid’s life and might even end up costing one of them primary custody, just look at what happened to Kelly Rutherford. Hence why Guy needs to follow the proper court protocol and not be an enabler in this drama and as for Madonna, she might have to give up the idea that Rocco MUST live with HER in New York.
All of this.
Madonna could have saved a lot of face by handling this privately and outside of the court system. Since she was already in London when he ran off to his dad’s, she could have ordered her chauffeur to drive her over to Guy’s and talked it out with Rocco. Even if she had and Rocco said ‘no,’ then she should have known better to allow for a cooling period.
I’m just gonna say I truly hate stories like this, gossip about family relationships. The only way to know how Madonna really is as a mother, is by being her child. I absolutely hate it when celebs get judged on how they raise their children.
The fact Rocco seems very tired of her mother doesn’t mean shit because he’s 15. Hating your parents is just a part of puberty.
I guess the point is… we’re talking about very personal matters that only Madonna’s famiy truly knows of. We can make educated guesses on what’s happening but none of us are qualified to judge anyone.
THANK YOU.
People who’ve never sat in the same building as this woman are swearing up and down she’s a narcissist, whore, bad mother.
Sheesh.
Just to go down the list folks:
1. You can be a shitty person and a great parent, the opposite is also true.
2. Who enters or exits your vagina does not dictate your ability to mother.
3. You can have strong opinions about your houses/tours/music/apartments and still be a good person.
4. Your behaving similar to a man is not a fatal flaw if you make the mistake of actually being a woman. So having younger lovers isn’t a crime.
5. Unless there’s evidence to the contrary stop letting your dislike of this woman make you rabid.
Thank you both. Agree with everything you’ve said.
They are both using Rocco. It isn’t one or the other. They could have handled this in a less public way. From earlier reports, Rocco has been asking to live with his dad for awhile now and Madonna has refused to allow it. Not sure why when she allows him and David to go visit pretty regularly. So…what’s different now? Because it would be Guy winning and she can’t/won’t allow that.
And Guy isn’t doing any better. Even if Rocco wants to live with him and he supports that, he has to present an united front with Madonna. it’s not about his feelings for her. It’s about what’s best for Rocco. And he should have put Rocco’s butt on a plane and told him we will handle this the current way, in court. Instead, he pandering to a child. They both suck at this point.
Madonna WAS in London her own self and even if she wasn’t, Rocco is not a little child. It would never solve anything to force him back to where he doesn’t want to be. Goodness it must kill so many people that children are their own persons and not slaves to their parents whims and wants. What’s best for Rocco doesn’t include pandering to Madonna’s wants. Parents should be able to put their egos aside and discuss things without going to court. When Rocco said he wanted to stay, she should have just said yes and moved on because at the end of the day, unless Madonna can prove that Rocco living with his dad is going to harmful o his growth and development, he was most likely still going to wind up living with his dad anyway.
If he finds out that the grass isn’t greener on the other side, then he always go back and live with the other parent.
I’m super glad none of my teenage drama was internationally publicized.
Bingo!!! I remember having terrible fights with my Mom and just not being happy then, but loving my Dad, because he traveled and when he was home it was all fun and games. Now older and both my parents gone, I miss them both a lot, but I ache for my Mother ten years after her death.
Seriously. I can only imagine the flashy headlines and how awful it all would sound.
“Abusive mother won’t let daughter make her own decisions!”
Celebrity family issues suck. There’s not enough information to really prove anything and the stress of it all going public negatively effects the family anyway. Not to mention whatever Rocco’s feeling at this age could be so temporary compared to whatever consequences come from this whole drama.
For people saying Guy should have forced a 15-year old, who’s as big as him, onto the plane, how? By tying him up like a pig at a luau or like Hannibal Lector? Rocco already ran away in Stockholm, so apparently he has little qualms about where he stays while he’s away from his mother. If not in London at Guy’s, then he’ll probably find somebody else to stay with.
Two Leos under the same stage light?! *GASP*
Rocco’s outfit in that first pictures reminds me of my first boyfriend in HS back in the 90s It’s like he combined everything that was bad from the 90s. Please tell me that the young ones are not all dressing like this????
I don’t think older child of Rocco’s age should be forced to tour with their mother even if it’s just three months of the year. They’re old enough to fend for themselves at something like a boarding school even, or at home with a nanny/supervisor. Why force him to tour if he’s not so young that you need to keep a close eye on them? And I don’t know about Guy Ritchie and Madonna’s relationship but he did call her out for looking “like an old granny” on stage and he is one of the worst filmmakers out there, making vapid, silly films like UNCLE and Sherlock Holmes.
If the 15 yr old wants to live with Dad, she should allow him to do so. Going to court to try and force him back is only going to make the kid resent her further. The kid probably cringes just watching her cavort on stage, let alone any other issues. Guy may be a fantastic Father.
Guy Richie seems like a major mistake as a husband and a dad. Madonna was thinking with everything but her head (if you know what I mean) when she picked him to have a baby with.
Also – is it just me or does his current wife, Jacqui, look super creepy in photos? She is always posing so hard and gives such an uncomfortable, ambitious vibe.
I really don’t think teen angst had anything to do with this. Seems like this kid has a very mature head on his shoulders in regards to this matter.