Susan Sarandon & Debra Messing are Twitter-beefing about Bernie Sanders


Susan Sarandon and Debra Messing are in a Twitter war. Those are words I never thought I would write. The whole thing started when Sarandon did an interview on Chris Hayes’ MSNBC show, All In. Here’s the exchange that got the controversy-ball rolling:

SARANDON: I think Bernie would probably encourage people to [support Hillary if he loses] because he doesn’t have any ego in this thing. But I think a lot of people are, ‘sorry, I just can’t bring myself to [vote for Hillary].’

HAYES: How about you personally?

SARANDON: I don’t know. I’m going to see what happens.

HAYES: Really?

SARANDON: Really. It’s dangerous to think we can continue the way we are with the militarized police force, with the death penalty and the low minimum wage and threats to women’s rights and think you can’t do something huge to turn that around. The country is not in good shape if you’re in the middle class. It’s disappearing.

[From Salon]

A lot of people took Sarandon’s words in the proper context and assumed that she was coming close to advocating for Democrats, liberals and progressives to stay home if Hillary Clinton gets the nomination. Sarandon was widely criticized for her “blind privilege” and more. She was even criticized by Hollywood actresses like Jamie Lee Curtis and Debra Messing.

After that, there was a flurry of tweets, retweets, replies, etc. For those you not following it, you can see Susan’s Twitter feed here and Debra’s feed here. Be careful of Debra’s Twitter, she’s talking to everybody and there are literally hundreds of tweets and re-tweets from the past few days. The basic gist seems to be that Susan left the door open for either voting for Trump (because he would start a revolution?) or staying home if Hillary Clinton got the nomination. Debra was being sort of pedantic about what Susan actually said and did not say during the interview, but the fact of the matter is that Susan is not advocating voting for anyone other than Bernie Sanders, even if Clinton gets the nomination. And considering the very real possibility of Donald Trump or Ted Cruz getting the GOP nomination, I do think that’s a privileged stance to take.


Photos courtesy of WENN.

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286 Responses to “Susan Sarandon & Debra Messing are Twitter-beefing about Bernie Sanders”

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  1. Lizzie McGuire says:

    There was a poll about this, if Bernie Sanders doesn’t get a nom his voters were likely not voting for Clinton. Some were saying they will vote for Trump (younger Sanders voters) because they don’t want Clinton to win. I think Susan Sarandon didn’t really talk or specify about that issue, so people just assumed that’s what she meant.

    • Jen43 says:

      I heard this yesterday and don’t understand it. Why would a supporter of Bernie vote for
      Trump if Hillary gets the nomination? It makes zero sense to me. It’s cutting off your nose to spite your face.

      • The Eternal Side-Eye says:

        “It’s cutting off your nose to spite your face.”

        That is exactly what it is.

      • perplexed says:

        I don’t think a Bernie supporter would vote or support for Trump, but not voting at all probably would help Trump (or whoever the Republican candidate is) and inadvertently hurt Hillary as the Democratic nominee.

      • Lizzie McGuire says:

        That’s what I didn’t understand, these two men have completely different point of views. So I don’t get the logic of voting for Trump, it was making me so mad going around IG/Twitter reading how uneducated they are about this.

      • Naya says:

        There are three schools of thought among them;

        1) first group hopes that a Trump presidency would be so awful that the resulting crisis would allow a 78 year old Bernie to win at the next elections and alternatively, it will “reset” politics towards a more progressive line. These are the “revolutionaries”.

        2) another group detests the “establishment” almost as much as they hate how their parents keep cutting their allowance. A monkey with a hat would be a better alternative than anybody who isnt a “maverick”. These are the “rebels with a cause”.

        2) final group resent the rise of PoC and women in politics. If one old white man doesnt win then it shoukd go to the other old white man. They are not ideologues, they root for Bernie because all the cool kids on campus and reddit do too. These are the “bros”

      • Sam says:

        It’s not a belief that Sanders supporters will vote for Trump – almost nobody believes that they will. The larger concern is that they will simply stay home and not vote for Hillary.

        Because, whether intentionally or not, Bernie’s rhetoric has cast it as “Bernie is for the revolution, everybody else is a corporate pawn.” Sanders supporters by and large don’t see themselves as Democrats voting for a Democrat they like. They see themselves far more as 3rd party members voting to make a “statement” about corporate greed, corruption, etc. There have actually been some very good pieces written about how Sanders supporters tend to use language that tracks eerily close to cultish in its veracity. The closest thing I can compare it is how some people talked about Ron Paul years ago.

        My husband is a political aide and mentioned the other day that some analysts are called Sanders “the Ralph Nader of 2016.” Which is not to suggest that Sanders and Nader are close, policy-wise. It’s more about the belief that Sanders is creating such a high level of rhetoric among certain groups that they’ll be unable to reconcile with the Democratic party and that they have the ability to create a schism that they could actually impact the Democrats’ ability to win (and to be clear, I’m not just talking about Hillary – there will also be Congressional Dems on the 2016 ballot who could be impacted).

      • jojo says:

        to me that sort of thinking is the flip side of the same coin of tea partiers. My only hope is Bernie directs his supporters properly, and I think he would once the general election is at hand.

      • Lizzie McGuire says:

        @Sam I posted a few comments lower about the 2000 election, this one is eerie similar to that one. How many decided to vote for Nader because they disliked Gore, & we ended up with Bush as a president. I agree Nader & Sanders are different but I can understand the comparison. What you wrote is definitely eye opening because I hadn’t consider that Sanders voters are more about Sanders than if it’s either Dem or Rep. He doesn’t win the nomination is a scary thought what his voters will do, but it will definitely affect everything.

      • Gg says:

        Susan Sarandon endorsed Bernie!!! The question was completely hypothetical.. Debra is coming off as controlling and obsessive! Susan was informing the public that she’s talked to Bernie supporters whose second choice is Trump. This isn’t news, it’s been reported on since New Hampshire and the same goes for Trump’s supporters whose second choice is Bernie.
        Debra and Gloria Steinman and Madeline Albright need to STOP shaming women into voting for Hillary!!
        And same goes for these comments. So much name calling… Own your own vote.

      • lucy2 says:

        It reminds me of when McCain’s campaign hoped to lure disappointed Hillary voters in 2008 by adding a woman to the GOP ticket. Never mind that the woman was Sarah Palin, who is pretty much the opposite of Hillary’s position on all issues.

      • KB says:

        @Jojo I hope that as well. And how can anyone claim Bernie has no ego if he doesn’t support the democratic nominee? This shouldn’t be a my way or the highway type of thing. If he doesn’t get the nomination he must tell his supporters to vote for Hillary. If he doesn’t, I’ll lose all respect for him.

      • kg says:

        Nader didn’t lose Gore the race. Gore lost his home state, which went to Clinton/Gore the previous 2 elections. Win your home state you win the race. It was a close highly contested race. I could see Bernie as more of Ross Perot to Hillary’s Bush 1, but the Nader argument is not a good analogy.

        Also a lot of us are Republicans who support Bernie for the very reasons he is different than Hillary/Cruz/Trump/Rubio. There is no loyalty to the Democratic party on my end even though I vote for their candidates a fair amount. So going around saying how evil all Republicans are or calling all Bernie supporters BernieBros who are stupid for wanting to evaluate their options instead of just blindly going for Hillary – a candidate most of us would only vote for if we absolutely had to, kind of just makes people dig their heels in on stances they might have changed their minds on. If you don’t live in a swing state – why should you feel obligated to hold your nose and vote for a candidate you don’t think will do a good job? It isn’t misguided and hopefully voting for a 3rd party will help that party get the percentage necessary to get into the debates in the next election cycle.

      • Sam says:

        KG: that’s false. A lot of progressives disputed that Nader spoiled the election for Gore because they did not want to believe that progressives could partly be responsible for Bush. However, look up the research of B.C. Burden, a political analyst at Harvard (who is a very well-respected analyst). His research demonstrated, statistically, that yes, if Nader had not been in the race, Gore would have almost certainly won. He did support the conclusion that Nader had not intentionally tried to undercut Gore (as some have alleged). However, he did confirm that Nader’s presence was certainly the major contributor to Gore’s loss.

        (BTW, also look up Neil Allen and Brian Brox, two other analysts and pollsters who did their own research and also came to the same conclusion that, yes, Nader cost Gore the election.)

      • Dani says:

        Okay wait. Somehow along the way of this political cycle Sanders supporters have gotten the label of extremists and it’s not necessarily true. In many presidential elections it has been easy for Democrats because if your candidate didn’t win you would cheerfully vote for the other one. The differences between Sanders and Clinton are pretty stark. Many of us voted for Barack Obama with the idea of big changes and instead received much of the same and small changes. Granted much of this was the elected Congress fault but still. Clinton is not particularly socially progressive. She grew up a Republican and many still believe that her politics fall in line with the good ‘ol boys club in DC. She was once a supporter for single payer healthcare but isn’t anymore. She would be more of the same in DC. So as a Bernie supporter I would of course vote for her against a Republican candidate but I would be holding my nose while doing so. I don’t expect any major progressive things to come from a Hilary Clinton white house but I sure as heck would be terrified to see what Trump or Cruz would do.

      • Sam says:

        Dani: I have not seen anybody here argue that Hillary is more progressive than Bernie. We all know it’s the opposite. However, and here’s the rub: this is not a normal election. The Republican party is very likely going to nominate an honest-to-God fascist who supports violence against dissenters, cracking down on the press, persecuting religious minorities, etc. That is what is likely going to be on the other side of the ballot come November. And Bernie, for all his good ideas, simply has too many strikes against him to make him palpable to most Americans (socialist, atheist). The fear is not the people will choose Trump over Sanders. It’s that those who dislike Sanders will simply stay home. If that happens, Trump walks into the Presidency. At this point, this election is not about electing a progressive. It is about stopping a fascist. And Hillary Clinton is the best shot at that. I am personally not a huge fan of hers. I think she has a history of dishonesty and shadiness. But I do not believe she will destroy the country; Trump will. Sanders is no longer contributing meaningfully to the election, in my mind. He’s continuing on with his “revolutionary” rhetoric and attacking Clinton; in essence, doing the Republicans’ job for them. In another election year, I’d support his right to do that, but this is now not an ordinary election. Which is why I can’t support him at this point. And people who continue to persist in it should know what the possible consequences will be.

    • Mgsota says:

      My stepdad is a republican. I wearily asked my mom who he supports and to my shock/relief she said Sanders. But he is the example that if Sanders isn’t on the ticket, he’ll probably vote republican. He’d never vote for Hillary.

    • GiGi says:

      I just cannot believe that this is true. I’m a Bernie supporter, but will 100% support the Dem nominee. Amongst my friends and those I work with in my local Democratic party, no one has mentioned anything different. Sanders supporters voting for Trump? That’s just insane.

      • Lizzie McGuire says:

        Yeah @Gigi it has been a trending hashtag on Twitter/IG. I just saw some articles about it & decided to see the hashtag, let me tell you reading the tweets/comments will make you upset. It makes no sense to me the logic behind the decision of voting for Trump instead of another Dem nominee.

      • Jayna says:

        Absolutely insane talk Out of all my friends for Bernie, not one would ever ever ever vote for Trump, and they would never ever ever sit out the election and then possibly be the cause of Trump getting in. They have all said they will vote for Hillary if she’s the nominee even though they are ardent Sanders supporters. They also are terrified of Trump being elected and the state of our country with him as POTUS.

      • Dani says:

        @GIGI exactly! Like we would vote for someone that advocates making abortion illegal, throwing all Muslims out of the country among other insane ideas. The idea that anyone supports him is terrifying.

      • Susannah says:

        My brother and I are both Bernie supporters. If Bernie loses, I’ll support Hillary, reluctantly but she’s better than the alternative. My brother will probably vote for Trump, not kidding, he’s all about breaking down the political system with someone new and different, “not part of the system.” It might be because he’s only 20 and he has an anarchist quality to him but I do think there are some men who will back Trump over Hillary.

      • DSW says:

        Same here. I don’t understand why a Sanders supporter would would vote for Trump (or any of the Repubs for that matter) if Hillary got the nomination. Their views are just so diametrically opposed.

    • SugarQuill says:

      I think this is more a case of people staying home on election day rather than voting for either Trump or Hillary. Considering how many Independents have rallied around Sanders and embraced him, I’d be pretty shocked if that particular group of voters suddenly decided to vote for an establishment candidate like Clinton. She is pretty much a textbook example of why Independents register as Independents and this probably wouldn’t be the first election they sit out.

      On the other hand, there are also plenty of Republicans who are horrified at what their party has turned into and would vote for Sanders if he ends up being the nominee. However, Clinton is pretty much universally disliked in those circles, so the odds of Republicans voting for Clinton are slim to none. Case in point, Mgsota’s stepdad.

      • Kimble says:

        A great explanation – thanks

      • MMS says:

        My future father-in-law is a staunch republican.. he was all for Mitt Romney back in the day… I’m not, obviously, anyways, last time I saw him the topic of politics came up and since I’m like the only liberal in the room, I kept my choice to myself, then what surprised me and even my fiance was when he said, “I’m voting for Hilary cause Trump would burn America…” etc. I was surprised and for once in my life agreed with him on politics.
        Plus my neighbors basically said the same thing too.

    • Tiffany :) says:

      But the democratic “I won’t support the other candidate if my fave loses the primary” numbers are WAAAAAY smaller than the GOP numbers for both candidates.

      “militarized police force, with the death penalty and the low minimum wage and threats to women’s rights”

      Susan, if you care about these issues sincerely, either democratic candidate is going to do much better on them than any of the GOP candidates.

    • (Original, not CDAN) Violet says:

      @Lizzie McGuire

      Susan talks about the differences between Bernie and Hillary in detail, talking about their respective track records. It’s an excellent interview and I’m glad that she’s speaking up, because she raises a lot of points that the media seems to gloss over.

      You can find the full interview below:

    • Otaku Fairy says:

      I don’t know if she’s saying she’d rather we just let Trump or Cruz win if Bernie can’t win, (God, hope not) or if she’s saying she’s hoping for Bernie to win, but if he can’t, she’s hoping his supporters who really don’t want to vote for Hillary will vote for her anyway.

  2. The Eternal Side-Eye says:

    It’s not a new sentiment, #BernieOrBust has been all over the Internet in some form.

    Somewhere between the idea that it’s easy to ignore the very real risks others will face at the hands of a Trump Presidency and the fact many Bernie Sanders seem to find a way to minimize Trump or are torn between voting for the two men I find myself struggling to understand what they’re really in favor of.

    If you favor Bernie that’s fine, but if you are, after everything Trump has said and done including defending his campaign workers who has been charged with assault, comfortable with Trump also being President then the causes you claim to support are meaningless.

    • Naya says:

      Agreed. I thought BernieorBust was a Bernie bro slogan (Bernie bro being young white well-to-do men who frankly kind of benefit if Trump wins anyway). Its just shocking to hear a woman with liberal views on reproductive rights and pay equality repeating a Bernie bro slogan.

      • Jess says:

        Please stop it with the tired “bernie bro” narrative. Imagine the f—ing s–t storm if Bernie’s camp started calling Hillary’s supporters “clinton chicks” or some other offensive/demeaning name.

        But then again, I’m not really surprised that Hillary stans are trying to use the same disgusting tactic they employed in 2008. Remember when team Hillary gleefully spread rumors about Obama… including the term “Obamaboys”.

      • Naya says:

        Oh please. Bernie best demographic is young white men from economically advantaged backgrounds. The bulk of who seem to be ideoologically bankrupt since they have declared that they will vote for Trump. If Bernie wasnt running, the BROS would be fueling Trumps campaign. They only care about racism, sexism or immigration to the extent that it gets their bro elected.

        Their natural habitat appears to be reddit, visit them there sometime. On their posting histories you’ll find littered among their pro-Bernie comments, lots of anti-black, anti-muslim, anti-woman and anti-immigration comments they leave on other sub reddits. Thats who they really are; privileged frat boys.

      • Jess says:


        Did you even read the article or are you just going to continue to smear and demean Bernie supporters? How typical.

        Then again, I’m not really surprised that some extreme Hillary fans have now devolved into making meangirl generalizations about Bernie’s supporters. That tactic didn’t work in 2008 against Obama and its not going to work now. & If you view reddit as an accurate representation of an ENTIRE GROUP OF SUPPORTERS, I truly feel sorry for you.

        I guess I can now label Hillary’s best demographic as sexists since we’re going off generalizations correct? Tell me again, which side had their biggest supporter come out and declare” a special place in hell” for women who don’t support Hillary? And who called female bernie supporters thirsty again?

    • Susan says:

      For me, voting has always come down to choosing the lesser of two evils…are people honestly seeing Trump as the lesser of two evils? Dear god we are in trouble.

    • Kitten says:

      ITA..I won’t repeat what I said yesterday about my evolving view of Sanders and his supporters but I actually thought that Debra Messing came out the winner in this.

  3. GreenieWeenie says:

    “…a privileged stance to take.” Oh, maybe. But then again, how are new political parties formed? When one loses support for exactly those kinds of reasons. Maybe right now, we’re in a period of systemic change. Why are Americans so fatalistic about their two-party system?

    Really weird of Debra to see a vote for Trump in what Sarandon said, particularly given Susan’s public support for Dems since forever.

    • chick b says:

      This. As an American I’ve walked into the voting booth with a ‘lesser of two evils’ mindset and regretted it deeply. I also saw no indication of Trump support in Sarandon’s comment.

    • Susan says:

      Can I just say for the record I AM SO TIRED OF THE WORD PRIVILEGED.

    • sherry says:

      I have friends on both sides of the aisle. I’m an Independent and caught flack from the right side friends yesterday when I said if Trump were the GOP nominee I would definitely be voting Libertarian (which I have done many times!). Ten years ago I decided I was done voting for the “lesser of two evils” and I vote for the person I think is best for the job and sometimes that mean writing in a candidate if they’re not on the ballot. If we keep voting for one of the two parties when we don’t think either of them represents who we are, then we are not being true to our values.

    • Luca76 says:

      I’ll say this for Ralph Nader he at least tried to launch a new national third party with his advocacy for the Green Party. If Sanders intention is to create a third party he should run as a Democratic Socialist and try to get 20% of the votes nationally. If his intention is to change the platform from within I applaud him it worked. Does that mean he should shut up and stop running? Absolutely not but he should take the steps to unite the party and have rhetoric that unites and isn’t divisive. He shouldn’t pander to the Bernie Bros just to get attention. If by some miracle (the delagate or vote count is nowhere as close as it was in 08 so it would take one) he wins the nomination guess what I’ll vote for him.
      Side note I wish we lived in a parliamentary system where the nuances of political opinions could be reflected in our parties and coalitions could be formed between parties but sadly we don’t. The issues at stake are too huge to let the a-holes on the other side at the head of the government. (When I talk about a-holes I’m specifically talking about Trump and Cruz not all Republicans)

    • Tiffany :) says:

      “Why are Americans so fatalistic about their two-party system?”

      For right now, it is about being pragmatic. We don’t have endless options. If there is a 3rd party run, and they pick up 2 or 3 states leaving all candidates with less than 270 electoral votes, then the currently elected GOP-run House of Representatives picks the President.

      A Trump presidency would have seriously negative consequences for decades to come (he could appoint 3 Supreme Court justices). Trump is talking about punishing women who have abortions. Making a national registry of Muslims. Anyone who isn’t INCREDIBLY frightened by what he has said he will do hasn’t been paying enough attention. I don’t see how anyone who supports the causes that Bernie does, and then says they won’t vote if Clinton is the nominee, can’t seriously believe in those causes. Bernie and Hillary agree on 95% of the issues.

  4. SusanneToo says:

    Sorry, Susan, Debra and Jamie Lee make more sense IMO. WTH do you think would happen if Repubs controlled Congress and the Oval Office? Not a pleasant thought.

    • Kitten says:


    • cindyp says:

      Totally agree. I lost a lot of respect for SS after watching that interview. Her tone of voice when asked about HRC was so disrespectful. I’m a a Bernie supporter but of course will vote for the dem candidate, whoever it is. If HRC is the candidate, I’m sure Bernie will do everything to ensure that his supporters support her. Guessing SS won’t be doing anymore surrogate speaking for Bernie. She’ll be fine whoever is elected; most of us will not if one of those GOP lunatics is elected.

    • Magnoliarose says:

      It’s a downright scary thought and not worth the risk.

  5. Anon says:

    Well, she didn’t say “Don’t support Hillary if Bernie doesn’t get the nom.” she said “I don’t know what I’m going to do yet, we will see.” The problem is that she has been actively campaigning for Sanders. You can’t through yourself in like that and then say “We’ll see, I don’t know.” because EVERYTHING means something. I work in this field, and am a former political operative, so I’m biased. But, I really don’t think Sarandon realized the message she was putting out.

    That said, if you support Bernie and you vote for Jill Stein (Green party candidate) you’re basically handing the White House to the Republicans. Remember 2000? Gore lost because of Ralph Nader. That was the difference. People who liked Nader more than Gore, REALLY hated the Bush presidency.

    • Kimble says:

      Bernicrats know this well. Maybe the Dems should consider this. HRC voters are way more likely to vote blue than Bernie supporters.

      • Tiffany :) says:

        But Hillary’s supporters are more numerous and enthusiastic. Maybe Berniecrats should consider this.

    • Lizzie McGuire says:

      THIS! People can say they’ll move to Canada or whatever other country they think they can go to, if Clinton & Trump are the nominees. That’s not really a reality unless you are really thinking of leaving everything behind. If it comes down to that, I’m still voting for the Dem party because I don’t want to live in a world where Trump is president.

      I remember the aftermath of that election, how people thought there was a chance for Nader & didn’t like Gore. The next years I heard everyone complain about Bush, but that’s the difference between voting/not voting, or deciding to vote for a third party. I don’t know if people just don’t understand the difference that makes but they’ll be the first ones to complain.

      • Magnoliarose says:

        When Nader voters complained I was so angry with them especially the Floridian ones. I got into so many arguments during that time. I was a fresh first time voter and I knew not to go Green.

    • SugarQuill says:

      But if you support Bernie and end up staying home on election day, you’re also pretty much handing the White House to the Republicans. Low voter turnout = Republican victory, since the electorate that never fails to show up is the Republican one. That seems to be the case pretty much everywhere in the western world (at least from what I’ve observed) – conservatives are the ones that you can depend on to show up and vote, liberals not so much.

      I think that the whole #BernieorBust movement is just the heat of the moment. That is, I hope so. If Hillary does end up being the nominee when the election rolls around in November, I’m cautiously optimistic that the Democrats that have previously supported Bernie will vote blue. The Independents and Republicans Bernie has managed to win over, however, are another story.

      • Anon says:

        If nothing else, I think Bernie is furthering the debate and conversation. I don’t think McCain ever stood a real chance against Obama, but one problem he did have was a lack of debate. He became the nominee very early in the race, and then tried to re-energize Republican voters with the Palin announcement. I hope Bernie does stay in the race for AWHILE longer because he is further the conversation/debate and I think making Clinton a better candidate for it.

        I just don’t agree with the premise that with holding your vote, or voting for someone who really doesn’t have a chance (aka the Green party) is ever a good idea, and it sounds like you agree, so its nice to find like minded rationalists 🙂

      • Susan says:

        Totally agree Sugarquill. And I still have real concerns about those old school apolitical misogynists (I’m from the south so I see them a lot!) that would never never vote for a woman or a Clinton. I’m worried however apathetic they are they will get out and vote because WOMAN PRESIDENT OMG.

      • Scal says:

        Not to mention all the down ticket elections.

        I get that people don’t like Hilary and don’t want to feel like sell outs-but when the option is going to be Trump (and it is, GOP it totally is) I just don’t get why anyone who would call themselves a Bernie supporter would take that risk.

      • Magnoliarose says:

        People always talk nonsense during the primaries. I block out half of it because when it’s 2 people in the race, the distinctions become crystal clear. Hilary supporters in 2008 said the same stuff but when push came to shove, they went for Obama.

    • kg says:

      I get tired of the Nader argument for Gore losing. He lost his own home freaking state. A state he used to a be a senator of, and a state where his dad is very well regarded politician. If Gore wins Tennessee he wins the election. Tennessee didn’t vote Nader over Gore, Gore just flat out lost the state to Bush.

      • Betsy says:

        You can be tired all you like of the argument, but Tennessee is a fairly red state, no? I don’t believe Democrats have carried it since maybe the 70s.

        And Gore won Florida, which was then awarded to Bush. You can pretend Nader didn’t have effect, but that’s all it is: pretend.

      • kg says:

        Tennessee went to Clinton/Gore in 1992 & 1996. Perot is probably a better example of a third party taking away votes. I don’t think Nader was a factor, and certainly not in Tennessee – so call it pretend all you want, but I will politely have to agree to disagree with you on this.

      • Sam says:

        Like I said upthread, look up the B.C. Burden research that was done at Harvard. That demonstrated very conclusively that yes, in fact, Nader was the major contributing factor in Gore’s loss. He did not do it intentionally (as has been alleged) but Nader absolutely pulled enough votes away from Gore to impact the outcome. Full stop.

      • Susannah says:

        But maybe Gore wouldn’t have won those votes anyway? Maybe those people who voted for Nader would have just stayed home or written in a candidate.
        My grandfather is a republican from way back but just didn’t care for Romney last time. So he didn’t get his vote, he voted for some third party candidate and then republican for the rest of the ticket. What if those people who voted for Nader just did the same and Gore wouldn’t have won anyway? No one’s guaranteed your vote, if Gore couldn’t win them, then he wasn’t a good enough candidate to get them. Same with Bush complaining about Perot in his election loss to Clinton.

      • Sam says:

        Susannah: Largely, no. Nader ran on the Green ticket. The Green party is a relatively far-left progressive party that tends to attract progressive individuals. Very few people who vote Green would ever vote Republican. Plus, Nader was a progressive darling for his years of championing of consumer protection and anti-corporate greed. Look up his 2000 Platform – he endorsed universal healthcare, campaign reform, raising the minimum wage, free university education, etc. (hmm, looking pretty similar to somebody?). The guy was running a progress campaign. Do you really believe for a second that people who voted for Nader would have otherwise voted for Bush? Really? No, they would have otherwise went for Gore. Write-ins are still incredibly rare. Again, read the analysts’ research (Burden, look at Neal Allen and Brian Brox). They do a better job explaining it than I do.

      • Magnoliarose says:

        This is false. It came down to Florida and if half the Nader voters had voted for Gore the American landscape would look very different today as would the Middle East. If people want to vote 3rd party then fine, but own it and the possible outcome.

    • Tiffany :) says:

      “People who liked Nader more than Gore, REALLY hated the Bush presidency.”


    • Ash says:

      I’ve been a longtime Green Party member and voted for Jill Stein in my state’s Primary because her views most closely align with mine. (I didn’t vote for Nader in Gore v. Bush.)

      However, I’ll be voting for Hillary or Bernie depending on which one wins the nomination.

  6. The Original Mia says:

    I’ve heard far too many Bernie stans say they will not vote for Hillary if she wins the nomination. It’s all or nothing for them. It sounds so juvenile. Screw the rest of us who will be affected by a Trump presidency because your candidate wasn’t chosen. Yeah, that’ll help the country.

    • KB says:

      They skew pretty young I think. Voting isn’t about the latest fad, you don’t just opt out because your favorite wasn’t chosen. It is so childish.

    • Sara says:

      Well it’s good to know that if Sanders wins the nomination you will be voting for him.

      • Another Anna says:

        If Sanders wins the nomination I will happily vote for him and try to convince every undecided or Republican I know to vote for him too. The Republicans are DANGEROUS. Trump is an insane bigot with seemingly little understanding of how the office of the presidency actually works.

        I have my problems with Sanders and I think what Sarandon said was a stupid, selfish, childish take on the matter, but I’ll vote for him, if he manages to get the nomination.

      • The Original Mia says:

        I will vote for him if he wins the nomination, Sara, because Trump and the Republicans don’t represent my interests as an African-American woman, who believes in a woman’s right to choose, who believes in a human being’s right to good healthcare, and who adamantly believes that black lives matter. I’m not a Clinton or bust person. I’m a person that believes the Republicans would just as soon ship my black ass back to Africa or would subjugate my sex than to see me sit at the same table as them.

      • mytake says:

        I’m right there with you Mia.

        Furthermore, I’m tired of pretending like the Republican party is not a blatantly racist, blatantly sexist, blatantly homophobic party. Voting for the Republican party is the same as saying, “Eff everyone who isn’t male, straight, white and Jesus-believing. Yes, I want racism, sexism and homophobia to continue!”

        It’s harsh to say, but true. The older I get, the less patience I have for Republicans and their “reverse racism” bull. More annoying? Outwardly religious Republicans that lack the basic compassion to see that we don’t live in a merit-based, post-racial Utopia. And then they get all, “Oh! Liberals are the ones who are intolerant!” NO! I don’t have to tolerate the KKK, nor the Republican Party. Why should I tolerate people who actively want to punish me for their racial blind spots (and concomitant racism — whether intentional or not). Why should I tolerate a group of people who want to take away my rights to control my body and pay me less. Yeah, no. And yes, I am sure there is a minority republican who will chime in and disagree with me. That’s fine. Clarence Thomases and Stacey Dashers exist; I get that. Still not going to change my opinion.

    • LadyMTL says:

      I’ve heard that too, and I find it very strange (I’m Canadian so I honestly find this whole process rather strange.) The “Bernie-Stans” would rather vote for someone like Trump or Ted Cruz than to vote for another Democrat? Or worse, not vote at all? Is it because they dislike Clinton that much or just would be uber ticked off if Sanders lost?

      I’m honestly baffled by the whole thing.

      • Sara says:

        Really? I’m Canadian too. Trudeau won the election because we all hated Harper not because we all agreed with his politics. Honest to God, Trudeau came out of nowhere with no experience and we all jumped all over it. Seems like we actually can relate to what’s going on down there.

      • LadyMTL says:

        @Sara I actually voted for Trudeau because I generally agreed with his policies (same reason why I’ve never voted Conservative – I generally disagree). I guess my confusion here lies with the fact that people would willingly vote for someone who’s ideals and values are – in theory anyway – diametrically opposed to their own.

        Like…a Sanders supporter’s values may be worlds apart from those of a Trump supporter, but the Sanders fan would rather vote for Trump than Clinton?

        That’s what baffles me.

      • Dani says:

        This is complete bull. There is not one Republican running that could possibly take any Bernie Sanders supporters. Maybe they say that now because they are so desperate for Sanders to win. But ALL of the republicans running are completely insane. The republican party has lost their identity so much no rational person is running. They are all extremists. If Clinton does win the nomination Sanders supporters will begrudgingly vote for her and a few may stay home. I believe at this point there is no way any of the Republican candidates will be able to win the general election.

    • Kimbers says:

      Im 36 and wouldn’t vote Hilary bc I dont think she’d make a good president, like I wouldn’t vote for trump. It’s not juvenile to withhold a vote because you don’t believe in either candidate. It’s juvenile to vote a certain way because people pressure you to, or try to scare you. I voted Hilary in the primary in 2008 that was her time, but she lost and a revaluation of how she feeds corporate America became clear and other fudged of truth became hard to ignore. Don’t tell me I’m juvenile for not doing what you want me to do. What ever happens will happen. Good or bad. That’s life and we’ll get through it.

      • GiGi says:

        But it is irresponsible to withhold your vote. Voting is a right and a privilege and, imo, should be mandatory.

        You would really risk a Trump presidency just because you don’t believe Clinton would be a good president? Would Trump? Please pick the lesser of the evils on election day and exercise your right to vote!

      • Anon says:

        I don’t think its juvenile, but I certainly think its misguided. Whether you admit it or not, who the President is (even for 8 years) does impact your life. It’s certainly your choice with with hold your vote, but I think its the wrong one, regardless of which side your are on. Say you were a Rubio supporter, and instead of backing a candidate with similar policies (for arguments sake, lets call that candidate Ted Cruz.) You withhold your vote, and you end up with President Clinton or Sanders, who agree with you on almost nothing. How did that benefit you?

      • Lizzie McGuire says:

        Let’s all go back to the 2000 election how many people sat that one out, either because they didn’t like Gore or voted for Nader. Then we ended up with Bush, I remember the complaining, hatred, etc about how much Bush wasn’t up to the job. Yet they did nothing to stop it, so it can happen on this election.

        I’m voting because I want to say at least I tried to make a difference, it impacts on everything in your life. I’m voting Democrat no matter what, either Sanders or Clinton get the nom. Sure life will happen but it definitely is a difference between having Trump as a president or not.

      • Greenieweenie says:

        @gigi, Mandatory voting?? My goodness.

        For most of voting history, voting rights haven’t been rights at all. They’ve been tied to land ownership. And there are loads of reasons why: you want people with a physical stake in governance because when they have a stake, they have a self interest. And when they have a self interest, they ought to be making reasoned choices, which should improve the quality of the political system overall. The reason voting rights are so tightly linked to civil rights is because they represent the extension of a stake to people who’ve traditionally had none.

        How on earth does that translate into mandatory voting? If you force people to vote when they’ve neither a stake nor an interest, you get a shit system. These are the same reasons why we invest in public education. You’ve extended voting rights to the general public, so now you have to educate them to ensure they’re not blithering idiots at the polls.

        Mandatory voting. This is what countries try to avoid! Let’s not recast voting as some great act of patriotism. I hate that sort of ad populum nonsense.

      • GiGi says:

        @greenieweenie – actually quite a lot of countries have compulsory voting. Mandatory voting prevents disenfranchisement amongst those groups who are poorly represented in our government.

      • The Eternal Side-Eye says:


        Exactly. Not to mention our current system of voting is targeted towards hurting the poor and minorities by making sure voting is as difficult for them as possible. Making voting mandatory would also change many of the policies we currently have in place that ultimately aim to hurt a group that mostly votes democratically.

        I’m not necessarilly in favor of mandatory but there’s a reason many countries do it.

      • Tiffany :) says:

        If you don’t like corporate America being fed, why would you allow a republican to be elected by default?

      • GreenieWeenie says:

        @Gigi, quite a lot of countries are not aiming to sustain a democracy. I’m detailing how voting rights evolved in the United States, as inherited from Britain particularly under the principles of the Enlightenment. The three pillars of liberal democracy are popular sovereignty, an independent judiciary and a free press. It doesn’t matter if other countries have mandatory voting absent those three pillars. Context is everything, here.

        Not trying to teach an intro to politics course on this thread (it is what I do, as you may have guessed) but a lot of people would certainly benefit from one.

        @TESE, you mention cause/effect, but you lack a causal mechanism. Voting causes XYZ how? Recognize that you’re making an assumption that isn’t grounded in the original assumptions surrounding the creation of voting rights. Pointing this out so ppl realize that discussion around politics (“everyone should vote!” “if we do X, Y will happen!”) is divorced from actual history of systemic development. Feel free to say these things, but they’re not a matter of fact.

    • Asiyah says:

      It’s not juvenile to not want to vote for a person who has consistently lied about her stances and even voted to get us into war. Maybe these people who don’t want to vote for Hilary don’t see any difference between her and the Republican candidates.

      • Anon says:

        …does that mean that those people are not viewing candidates based on policies? I guess it depends on what issues you care about the most, but Hillary’s policies on the economy, contraception, women’s health, criminal justice reform, and the environment are way more in line with Bernie’s than ANY of the Republicans.

        It’s not abnormal for people to vote for a candidate because they “seem like the kind of person I could grab a beer with” but what exactly does that get you if you’re pro-choice and you end up with President Trump or Cruz and Ruth Bader Ginsburg happens to die and they end up replacing her on the bench?

      • Susan says:

        Being an adult is assessing a situation and making a good judgement in a bad situation even if it doesn’t fit your narcissistic ideals. If someone says to me,”I’m going to kill you. Do you want to die by a gunshot to the head or starvation,” while I don’t want to die….I’m choosing the gunshot.

      • Asiyah says:

        @ Susan
        Narcissistic ideals? I’m sorry but nobody should guilt anybody into voting for somebody they don’t believe in. Voting is both political and moral. Nobody should go against their morals just so they can vote because “it’s better than not voting at all.” It’s one thing to compromise one or two stances (e.g. supporting a candidate who doesn’t share your views on taxation but shares your other views) but to compromise almost everything you believe in? No.

        Many are viewing Sanders based on his policies, and they are doing the same with Hilary.

      • Luca76 says:

        I think a big issue is that people find the ideals of government despicable these days. That’s why there are so many similarities between the Tea-Party and the Bernie backers. Both sides think compromise is the worst thing ever. Yet most of the unanimously supported policies in this country were in fact compromises. What people find so awful about Hillary that she’s changed her mind on issues, that she’s a career politician. The concept that she listened to her constituents and evolved with them is an abomination to them. To me those are the reasons she will be a good president. In fact I think she will have a much easier time with Congress than Obama did (just an opinion). Look at LBJ and the Civil Rights Act.

      • Anon says:

        @Asiyah then what did you mean by “don’t see a difference between Hillary and the Republicans”? Because there is a HUGE difference between her policies and those of any Republican candidate. Do you mean taking bank and other corporate $$? Do you mean general lack of “honesty”? Even Elizabeth Warren takes that money (true, not nearly as much as Hillary) but that clearly hasn’t impacted her agenda, she’s done FAR more work on the economy and financial reform than Bernie.

        I just don’t understand the core concept of your argument. I’m not trying to be rude or disrespectful, but I’d like to understand what you meant by that… because if it were about the policies it doesn’t make sense.

      • Dani says:

        @Asiyah I partly agree with your point. Clinton is very republican-lite. She would actually make a great true republican candidate if that field wasn’t overwhelmed with absolute crazy extremists. But in a world that it’s Clinton or Cruz or God forbid Clinton or Trump she would be the best candidate.

      • Susan says:

        Asiyah: enjoy the upcoming Trump presidency. You have no one to blame but yourself. I sure hope you are a wealthy white male.

    • Gg says:

      I am not a Stan but you might be one for calling me one.

      • Kitten says:

        That doesn’t make sense.

        But this is the kind of militant, borderline-angry, knee-jerk reaction that I keep seeing from Sanders’s base. PLEASE stop making me like him less. I voted for him in the primary but this level of defensiveness from his supporters is such a turn-off. Let’s talk policy and have an educated and even-tempered debate instead of resorting to “I know you are but what am I?”

      • The Original Mia says:

        Did I touch a nerve because I categorize those who would rather not vote if Sanders isn’t nominated as stans? It’s how I differentiate between those who are fans and like the man and will vote with Hillary and the Dems because it’s the better of least evil from those who won’t.

      • Jess says:


        That’s pretty funny, cause the same thing could be said for some angry and defensive Hillary supporters. They’ve made me dislike her even more.

      • Kitten says:

        @ Jess- you voted for Hillary in the primary? I assume that’s what you’re saying saying otherwise who cares if you’re a staunch Bernie supporter who likes Hillary less? You never would have voted for her in the first place so..?

      • Jess says:


        and who cares if you voted for Bernie in the primary… I frankly find it hard to believe that a supposed bernie supporter suddenly started liking him less due to the imaginary “militant, borderline-angry, knee-jerk reaction” you think exists in his base.

        If we’re going to talk about militant and angry and bases, where are the prominent bernie supporters telling Hillary voters that there is a “special place in hell” for them if they don’t vote for bernie? Where’s the famous bernie supporter telling women that they’re only with Hillary cause “that’s where the boys are”?

        and why are you assuming that every single staunch bernie supporter would not vote for Hillary if she wins the nomination? Where did I ever state that I would not vote for Hillary if that were the case?

    • Kitten says:

      I gotta say that I agree with you, Mia.

    • annaloo. says:

      Any democratic supporter who stays home bc Bernie did not get the nomination absolutely deserves the wake up call of a Trump or a Cruz presidency. The rest of us don’t, but I don’t know how else to battle such closed mindedness without a taste of hard medicine called reality.

    • Anne tommy says:

      A plea from someone overseas who can’t vote but who dreads a Trump Presidency – if you are a Democrat, FFS vote Democrat, whoever the candidate is.

  7. als says:

    Has Hollywood ever been this divided between Democratic nominees? I seem to remember that everyone supported Obama.

    • Naya says:

      There was a split during nominations especially before Obamas surge. The reason you may not be remembering it is that when Hillary lost, her supporters didnt go off to a corner to sulk.

  8. Kimble says:

    People really need to understand the difference between Democrats and Progressives. Most Bernie supporters are not Blue or die. He is under the Dem ticket because of our stupid two party system. I dont believe the DNC ever believed Bernie would get the support he has and now they’re supporters are panicking These discussions are moot anyway because guess what? $hillary hasn’t won anything yet!!!!!

    • Tammy says:

      I don’t understand this all or nothing stance Bernie supporters are taking. Yes, I would love for Bernie Sanders to get the nomination but I will not, in any shape or form, vote for Donald Trump. If Hilary gets the nomination and Bernie supporters stay home.. they’ve just handed the election to either Ted Cruz or Donald Trump & I will hold every one of them responsible for what happens the next 4 years, you can count on it. I’d rather have the devil I know in the White House than either Donald Trump or Ted Cruz in.

      • K says:

        People need to remember that primaries aren’t general elections and so even if the Bernie Bros ( and I will be honest the behavior of some of his supporters have soured me on Bernie which isn’t fair but it’s there) stay home there is the rest of the country and the VAST MAJORITY don’t vote in primaries, they also find Trump and Cruz repugnant.

        Now should these people do this? No you don’t vote for a racist because your guy lost, if you really don’t believe in the canidate that got the nomination then fine stay home but shut up (not you collective) and don’t vote (although I have strong feelings about people who don’t especially women and minorities considering people DIED so we could), you don’t punish the nation.

      • Asiyah says:

        Why hold Bernie supporters responsible for what happens in the next 4 years if either Cruz or Trump win? Unfortunately, these two have A LOT of supporters. Even if Bernie supporters end up voting for Hilary after all, it will be a tight race and she does have a high probability of losing.

      • Anon says:

        @Asiyah because that will be the difference. Just like 2000 with Nader. That was the difference. If Nader had not been in that race, Al Gore would have been President. So, if the majority of Bernie supports DON’T vote for Hillary, you will have a Republican president.

        The same would hold true for a Republican nominee, btw. In this case it happens to be a Democrat, but there are some local examples of Republican favored races going to a Democrat because a Tea Party candidate and a Republican candidate split the vote.

      • Asiyah says:


        Let’s stop perpetuating the myth that Nader is the reason why Al Gore lost in 2000. It wasn’t that simple then and it isn’t that simple now.

      • Anon says:

        @Asiyah … that’s literally how math and the Electoral College work.

    • The Eternal Side-Eye says:

      He should have run as an independent full stop. The mistake was in letting him run under a party he doesn’t believe in. The issue I now have is at least then we’d have clear lines in the sand in whether someone is voting for Democratic ideals or merely for Bernie.

      • Jen43 says:

        If he ran as an Independent, it could split the vote and give Trump the presidency. He did a good thing by running as a Dem.

      • The Eternal Side-Eye says:

        How much of a good thing is it if there’s now a well publicized faction of his supporters who’d rather vote for Trump or no one if he doesn’t get it (or blame him not being the front runner on everyone including conspiracy when he’s simply struggling to get enough support through the primaries)?

      • Sam says:

        I would have preferred him on the Green or Progressive ticket. Established 3rd parties with set infrastructures that could actually work for him. However, the Green Party just keeps going with Jill Stein (a lovely woman and good progressive, but with almost no name or political experience).

      • Asiyah says:

        I agree but you know how we’re stuck in our two-party ways here in America.

      • Naya says:

        He only run as a democrat to give himself a better shot which is an intellectual dishonesty that Hillary or Barrack would have been crucified for had they tried it. He is in almost every sense an independent, he should have run as one.

      • Anon says:

        As a Hillary supporter, I actually think this is a really interesting argument.

      • Natalie says:

        He wanted access to DNC money. He feels entitled to money that Hillary helped raise.

    • Kimbers says:

      Exactly! Hills hasn’t won anything. NPR had some great segments on how this very subject.

  9. Neelyo says:

    People shouldn’t look to celebrities, especially celebrities on Twitter for political depth.

  10. Jenns says:

    “tht Trump prezcy wud b better 4 the country thn Hillary”

    Come on Debra. Do multiple tweets. No one over the age of 14 should be typing like that.

    • QQ says:

      Right??! that reads like a 14 boy Wrote it… Is Mortifying

    • SugarQuill says:

      Yes to this! Her tweets hurt my eyes and my brain.

    • GoodNamesAllTaken says:

      Thank you. It doesn’t matter what your message is – when you write like that, you appear to be stupid. Just stop it.

    • lucy2 says:

      Seriously, that made me cringe so hard. I get that there’s limited characters, but that’s a surefire way to make yourself sound stupid.

    • Kitten says:

      That was terrible but isn’t that what Twitter does? I’m not on it but doesn’t it limit you to a certain number of characters or whatever?

  11. Kimbers says:

    Why don’t people just vote who they want between Bernie and hills. After it’s truly decided bc poop happens and Hillary could lose(people can change their minds and those eggs she counted might be cracked) then everyone can bust out their torches and gather the town’s people to March to the steak serving golf course, even though trump isn’t said and done, and there is no fork in him.
    Btw-I’m in Wisconsin this week and it is hilarious listening to how much people hate trump.

  12. K says:

    Yeah it’s an extremely privileged stance to take and one that her non working class (and I say this as an upper middle class person but still need my career) can say.

    She won’t be affected by the next president but the rest will, Trump (ignoring his hate redoric and what that would mean) would destroy my industry with his trade policies.

    Hillary isn’t my first choice but frankly neither is Bernie, he is a wonderful man but he is backwards looking not forward but the reality is whoever is on the democratic ticket should get the Americans vote because the other side could do incredible damage to the economy, the civil rights of minorities and honestly our safety. I mean the republicans aren’t putting up sane people like Condoleeza Rice, they are putting up their scariest wing nuts.

  13. Naya says:

    A lot of Bernies supporters (mostly “the bros”) believe this, thats how I know how ideologically bankrupt most of them are. Theres even an overlap between Trump supporters and Bernies bros, in that if Bernie isnt running they will happily vote Trump. Its about protecting the white bro-hood while touting themsleves as “anti establishment”. Susan and others have started buying into the bro rhetoric. Shame.

    • Gg says:

      The amount of name calling by Hillary supporters is appalling. This is a free country and everyone can vote or not vote however they wish. Everyone on this thread whose comments are filled with insults needs to be more respectful.

      • Kimble says:

        We see it everyday. I am on a ton of Bernie groups and never see the disrespect I do from HRC supporters. I’m a 53 year old white grandmother. There’s nothing “bro” like about me at all!

      • sanders says:

        I’m a mid 40’s woc and I’ve volunteered for Bernie and been to a rally full of 5000 people. I personally have not experienced any kind of hostility, whether racist or sexist.

  14. Luca76 says:

    It’s total clueless white privledge. All my hippy friends are saying the same thing and I’ve stopped subscribing to their Facebook feeds. This revolution they are talking about is poor and brown and black people losing their rights, while they get to complain about politics from the comfort of surburbia just like they did during the Bush years.

    • The Eternal Side-Eye says:

      Hate to say it but that’s the essence of things I’ve got too. If you can basically say “To hell with it.” then I have to assume you didn’t have much to lose to begin with. Little by little I see more of this privelaged class of liberal who wants the world to run on their ideals and are comfortable targeting those minorities who don’t immediately thank them for their savior complex.

      • Luca76 says:

        Yup. One of the more racist memes I’ve seen lately was posted by my friend that is the biggest liberal ever.It was basically about how every black person voting for Hilary has Stockholm syndrome. If I hadn’t known her 20 years I would have stopped talking to her I did tell her it was racist though.

      • Gg says:

        We can not let the color of our skin, our sexual orientation, and wedge issues divide us. When we stand together and say we have a vote, anything is possible!
        The 1% is fleecing this country and have rigged the game.. it’s Dems they win, Repubs we lose. We must unite and fight back.

      • The Eternal Side-Eye says:

        Glad you did and yeah I’ve seen too many posts sarcastically mocking black voters for being ‘obedient’ and voting for Hilary from liberal voters.

        I also saw an amazing Reddit thread where a black voter explained it to those who were stunned by the lack of strong minority support for Bernie and it resonated with me so well. It put into words things I’d struggled with myself even if all the points didn’t apply to me.

      • Luca76 says:

        @Gg what you said just erases all the issues that are pertinent to me and my life as a woman of color. Its the classic stance of privledge and the exact reason why I’m not interested in voting for Sanders.

        @the Eternal Side-Eye I’d love to read it!!!

      • Natalie says:

        Gg, stop. You’re just repeating slogans. Have a conversation.

      • The Original Mia says:

        Preach it.

      • Betsy says:

        As a white supporter of Hillary, I have to say that watching some Bernie supporters condescend to black people has been absolutely cringe worthy. If only you knew! If you understood! It’s the media! You haven’t heard about Bernie! (Is the Internet in general and Bernie’s website in particular restricted to whites? That’s how I get most of my info these days)

      • The Eternal Side-Eye says:


        Here you go!

        I also have to say it reminded me about several good points regarding black voters that don’t personally effect me but I do see as passionate issues within the community. The difference in liberalism between white and black churches. Even the part about why Bernie’s past work with black activists while wonderful isn’t an automatic win.

        By the end I felt this amazing rush of finally seeing this issue hashed out in a place where people were willing to listen and not condescend as well as agree that they hadn’t considered this issue from a truly developed minority perspective but just their general “But he would be great for all of us!” opinions. I always say this but it’s true, strictly on the issues I agree with Bernie by a lot but when I look at him I just sometimes don’t see his plans working out or going beyond a small bump for one group of people.

      • Kitten says:

        Wow, that was an incredibly interesting, eye opening and well-written read.

        Thanks for sharing that, ESE. I’m excited to email that link to some of my friends who have posed the same question about Bernie’s lack of popularity among black voters.

      • The Eternal Side-Eye says:

        @ Kitten

        No problem at all! Glad you enjoyed it as much as I did, like I said it was the lightbulb moment where everything I’d been feeling was finally put into words.

      • Luca76 says:

        Thank you Side-eye!!!

      • The Eternal Side-Eye says:

        Welcome Luca!

    • Natalie says:

      Also, Gg, let me break down how your slogan comes across:

      We can not let the color of our skin, our sexual orientation, and wedge issues divide us.
      *We don’t care about what you deal with because of the color of your skin, gender or sexual orientation. Give us your votes*

      When we stand together and say we have a vote, anything is possible!
      *We don’t care about what you affects you. Give us your votes*

      Stop pushing your candidate as one issue because it tells me he doesn’t want to earn my vote.

      • The Original Mia says:

        Exactly, Natalie!

      • Jess says:

        Natalie, let me break down how your reply comes across:

        -“We don’t care about what you deal with because of the color of your skin, gender or sexual orientation. Give us your votes”
        *We don’t want to hear what Bernie supporters have to say because unless you vote for Hillary, we will READILY label you as sexists, racists, and homophobic*

        -We don’t care about what you affects you. Give us your votes
        *Shut your mouth and vote for Hillary while I imply you are a racist/sexist/homophobe who doesn’t care about minorities*

        This may be shocking to you Natalie but many people view that “one issue” to be deal breaker when it comes to voting for a candidate. I guess that since I agree with Gg, I’m a dumb asian “bernie bro” woman who doesn’t care about minority voices now?

        & Maybe Hillary should stop attacking Bernie for being a “single issue candidate” because it’s called a having a clear message -Maybe Hillary should be wise to get one since she’s known to be such a gigantic flip-flopper.

      • Gg says:

        @natalie calling me out for the imaginary privilege you think I have is very clearly diminishing to me too.

      • Natalie says:

        Jess, if that is your deal breaker, then you should vote for him. There’s nothing wrong with that. And concerning any supposed persecution of Bernie supporters, all I can do is have this conversation with you. I’m responding to words said here. If you can’t respond back without widely expanding the goal posts to words that have not been spoken by me, then I’m not sure what response you’re looking for.

        Gg, I didn’t call you out for privilege. You used slogans and I gave an idea of how those slogans are perceived by those who don’t want a one-issue candidate. You, like Jess, get to decide your deal breakers, but it’s not a promotion of unity to talk up your candidate by dismissing equally important priorities, just because you disagree they’re equally important. Bernie’s stance on one issue does not entitle him to support from people who want to know their concerns will be addressed.

  15. Suzy from Ontario says:

    The worry is that if the Dems who want Bernie don’t bother voting at all because they don’t want to vote for Hilary, then Trump could win due to just the lack of votes on the democratic side! I’m not America, but if I was, I’d want Bernie too, because he’s something different and I like his ideas whereas Hilary is more like the woman who has learned to play the old boys game BUT… if Hilary won the nomination, she’s still the lesser evil than Trump and I wouldn’t sit home and not vote because the Democrats need every vote against Trump they can get. Can you imagine not voting and them the GOP winning by a really small margin? Trump and the GOP are the true evils, imo, and I’d vote Dem for whoever was the nominee just to keep them out!

    • Luca76 says:

      I can imagine it because it happened in 99. So many people made a point to vote for Nader in the general that Bush was able to cheat in Florida and win the election.

    • FingerBinger says:

      Bernie Sanders is something different but he can’t win. He’s a self proclaimed socialist. Many on the left and right are afraid of that word.

      • Kitten says:

        ..AND an atheist. I personally enjoy that quality (for obvious reasons lol) but the majority of Americans do NOT.

      • Helen says:

        @kitten He’s very much Jewish.

      • Anne tommy says:

        And I don’t think there’s ever been a Jewish President? I wonder how the mad anti – Semites and their “Jewish Conspiracy” nonsense explain that?

      • Jack K says:

        He’s nominally a Jew from Brooklyn but he doesn’t own this. According to Bernie Sanders, Bernie Sanders is an atheist from Vermont. He doesn’t own his past and I know people who aren’t voting for him because of this.

      • Kitten says:

        @helen- you’ve never met a Jewish person who doesn’t believe in God?.

      • Helen says:

        As a Vermonter who has known him my whole life, I’m just letting you know that he’s Jewish and doesn’t hide it. I respect that he wants to leave his religion out of his politics, where I don’t think it belongs honestly. I don’t care if does or doesn’t believe, nor do I think that it has any affect on if he’ll make a good president, so why bring it up?

  16. FingerBinger says:

    Susan Sarandon can vote or not vote for who she chooses. I think it’s bad idea not to vote because your candidate didn’t get the nomination but it’s her choice.

    • lucy2 says:

      In general I agree, it’s up to everyone what they want to do.
      But I also agree it’s a bad idea to sit it out – my feeling is if you don’t vote, you can’t complain later on. So if Susan decides to sit home (which I interpret her as saying, certainly not that she’s voting for Trump) then I don’t want to hear her complain about President Trump (shudder, vomit).
      When one candidate is THIS horrible and dangerous, my feeling is vote against them, even if you have to hold your nose while doing it.

    • Dirty Martini says:

      I agree completely. I’m a political centrist with Liberterian leanings, I have voted both sides of the aisle and can’t abide this 2 party system and the thought that it’s all about being a democrat or republican and that’s it.

      I can’t stand either Trump or Clinton. I actually respect Sanders. I don’t agree with him politically but I respect him for walking the walk of his beliefs,

      So who am I going to vote for? I can’t yet come to a conclusion. Pick the least offensive between Clinton and Trump? Impossible. They are equally bad in their own ways. Write in a vote and feel good about my choice knowing it is meaningless ? Skip the day and stay home out of silent protest?

      Nothing about this feels right, Absolutely nothing.

      But at the end of the day… individuals……we all must act in the way that feels right for us. Not right for Twitter followers, celebitchy commentators, or anyone else.

  17. Mimi says:

    “And considering the very real possibility of Donald Trump or Ted Cruz getting the GOP nomination, I do think that’s a privileged stance to take”. I don’t necessarily think it is a “privileged” stance to take but rather a moral one. I kind of feel that we as a country are screwed no matter how this election turns out. I know I will probably get a lot of negative feedback for saying this, but here goes… On the Dem side you have a delusional man whose vision of how this country should work is not only unrealistic but unfair to the average citizens he expects to make that vision come to fruition. Than, you have Hillary who is an evil witch that should be sitting in a federal prison. On the Repub side, you have Trump… Enough said, right? Ted Cruz isn’t a much better option. I don’t want to live in a country that supports a leader who is nothing but a hate mongering racist. Nor do I want to deal with a president that will tax the sh*t out of middle class citizens to pay for his “promises”. And I refuse to vote for a evil, arrogant, and entitled candidate simply because said candidate is a woman. This crop of presidential candidates are a joke. A terrifyingly real joke.

    • Timbuktu says:

      Why is Bernie’s version unfair to average citizens? Unrealistic – ok, unfortunately, but unfair? From everything I heard, he isn’t proposing anything that many other countries haven’t tried already. I think his ideas are extremely fair to average citizens, and, in your case, thankfully, our Congress would never let his plans come to fruition, so you don’t have to worry about how realistic they are too much.

      • Mimi says:

        Bernie’s vision, although well intentioned, is extremely unfair to average citizens. There is no way to fulfill all of his promises without taxation of the people. The middle class will be the first group to take that hit. I will not vote for someone who plans to take even MORE of my family’s money away. It’s sad because I do agree with some of his sentiments. Just not the policies that would inevitably need to be implemented to support those sentiments.

      • Asiyah says:

        Agreed, Timbuktu.

      • K says:

        I like Bernie but go take a deep dive on what is happening in Europe. I work for a euoprean company and to hear my coworkers talk about all that is going on in their country and what a mess it is.

        Also a lot of what he wants to do American citizens have proven they won’t go for with commerce.

        I like Bernie I think he is a good man with principals, but the country has changed from the 60s and like President Obama has said we need to adapt and move forward not backwards. I’m not sure he can see it and there are areas in this country we could lead and create middle class blue collar jobs but they are different and he doesn’t seem to be talking about them.

      • SloaneY says:

        Why are people so afraid of taxation? Like it’s a dirty word? I would gladly pay a few hundred dollars more in taxes each YEAR then pay hundreds of dollars a MONTH in healthcare premiums, and then paying thousands in deductible every year?
        OMG! We have to pay a little more in taxes for services that would actually benefit us more in the long term! Aaack! The horror!

      • Kitten says:

        I don’t mind taxes but I hate that we can’t chose how our taxes get applied you know? For instance, in Boston I f*cking hate that my taxes went to bail out the MBTA, an organization that has mismanaged funds and overpaid employees for years while passing the buck to consumers via fare hikes, all the while providing the worst service you could possibly imagine.

        Sorry to interject as my comment is kind of a personal rant but….I suppose I’m like Sloane in the sense that I don’t generally get fumed about taxes but I also agree with K’s assessment of Sanders as well.

        I just wish there was ONE candidate that I was thrilled about. Sigh.

      • Timbuktu says:

        why would the middle class be the first group to take a hit? Isn’t Bernie a “socialist”? Isn’t he talking about the redistribution of wealth? Wouldn’t corporations and rich people be the first ones to take a hit, at least, if Bernie could have his way? I just don’t see anything in his platform that spells immediate trouble for the middle class. Which is not to say that it won’t happen – I’ve seen enough of obstructionism from our Congress over the last 8 years to be very pessimistic – but I fail to see how it’s the first thing we go to, and how it’s Bernie’s fault that his policies won’t work because of the context.

        Europe is struggling, but in some significant ways they are struggling because of American policies. Both our financial crisis and our wars sent a ripple effect through the rest of the world. I don’t think we get to sit back and blame them for their “bad policies” now when they are accepting refugees from Iraq and Syria. Just because their social net cannot handle the influx, does not mean that their setup was inherently bad. Europe has many problems and did, perhaps, go too much in the opposite direction (too much of a social safety, too many perks, etc.), but they got many things right. Learn and tweak, don’t shun, IMO.

        Yes, but then EVERYone would benefit, not just meeeeeeeee… Can’t have that. Everyone who makes less than me should be made to feel “less than”, or it’s not capitalism, or something.

    • Anon says:

      I have a friend who is a big conservative, and she’d rather see a third Obama term than vote for any of these candidates. I think that says a lot.

      • Goo says:

        Your friend is certainly in the minority…. As a Conservative, I will vote for anyone except a third Obama term.

      • Mimi says:

        I’m definitely not an Obama fan, but I absolutely echo your friend’s sentiments on the current possible candidates.

      • K says:

        I’m not conservative but I’d give anything if we could just make Obama King-
        Seriously this election has really made me think we need to embrace the monarch and just make the Obama family royality.

        At the very least give him another term. This group is not a positive showing of our best options.

      • Mimi says:

        K, are you freaking kidding me? Wow…

      • K says:

        @ Mimi clearly I don’t support overhauling our entire way of governing so have several seats and learn to take a joke. My God.

        But yea I do think losing Obama is going to be a huge loss for this country and I would take a third term over any of these people. That can’t happen and I respect that so I will vote for the democratic candidate as I feel they would be the lesser of two evils. I’m not happy about it though.

      • Magnoliarose says:

        My Republican BIL says exactly the same thing, he has come to appreciate Obama more now because of the circus and crude behavior of his party. He tried to hang in but as a moderate he just can’t anymore.

      • Anne tommy says:

        Obama has certainly not delivered on all his promises, but his thoughtfulness, intelligence and dignity is in such stark contrast to Trump’s vile ranting.

    • Betsy says:

      An evil witch who should be sitting in prison? Mm-hmm. Side eye.

  18. Twodollars says:

    I am so sick of Hillary and her supporters demanding loyalty before the primaries are even over. They’ve been hounding Bernie supporters since last summer to swear they’d vote for Hillary when she was the nominee. Let Hillary earn the nomination first then let’s talk.

    And that loyalty oath never goes the other way with Hillary supporters.

    • The Eternal Side-Eye says:

      In every single post I’ve seen on the topic of politics Hilary supporters have comfortably said they’d vote for Bernie if she’s not the nominee. Even in this post its evident.

      • Kitten says:

        This though. Where are these comments coming from?

      • Ash says:

        None of the Hillary supporters I know have bashed Bernie and his supporters. If Bernie wins the nomination, they’ve said that they will vote for him.

        Bernie supporters on the other hand . . .

    • chakatay says:

      Come on, you know they don’t have to…. They’ll vote blue regardless so that conversation is moot, they proved that in ’08.

      It’s also why they can’t wrap their minds around people doing otherwise. but I think everything will fall in place. Bernie Sanders, if he screws the dems over by NOT convincing his supporters to vote for Hillary will be acting like a pretty awful person. That he is not.

      • SloaneY says:

        He probably will, AFTER the convention. Why are people so adamant that he should be urging his supporters, BEFORE the nomination is set, to vote for Hilary? His job right now is to try to win the nomination.

      • Kitten says:

        Because it’s becoming more obvious every day that he won’t win the nomination, that’s why. That doesn’t change your point that he’s naturally focusing on the success of his own campaign right now, but the general panic that we’re feeling over the potential nomination of Trump has people thinking ahead, you know?

        I’m still trying to get myself acquainted with the idea of voting for Hil so I get it.

    • K says:

      I’m not a supporter of either canidate I think both are just ok but they are far and away better then the republicans so whoever is the democratic nominee I will vote for. Not because I think highly of either because frankly I don’t and I resent both of them for it because I had two presidential elections where I was proud to cast my vote for Obama! PROUD.

      But I’m casting my vote for the democrat because it’s in the best interest of the nation. Because as a woman I care about my civil rights, because I worry about the safety and rights of my friends who are black, Muslim and Latino and I don’t want to see anything happen to them, because even though the marriage equality has no baring on my personal life it does impact the lives of people I love.

      So yeah I’m not crazy about with democratic canidate but you bet your but I will get up early go to my polling place and pull the lever of whoever they put up because while they both suck a little they won’t actively set out to take away rights or hurt people I love.

      • cynic says:

        This. I voted for Bernie in the primary because I’m tired of the Clinton machine and I think her policies reflect a republican-not-so-light point of view, but I will not hesitate to vote for her in the general election because a lot of people don’t have the privilege of watching the resulting fallout from the sidelines.

    • Gg says:

      Thank you!! Nobody has conceded, no one should be shaming or name calling the others supporters. It’s still very much a close race and both candidates are doing well.
      Susan Sarandon said she is supporting Bernie and didn’t answer a question about a hypothetical match up.
      End of story.

    • Betsy says:

      Yes, I will hold my nose and vote for Bernie if he’s the candidate. Unlike you, I remember 2008 and remember being insanely disappointed that Hillary lost the nom, but I voted for Obama. Who, frankly, has been an exemplar of what a President should be, despite his insane attempts to negotiate with the Republicans.

  19. aims says:

    I feel the need to speak up here. I’m a staunch supporter of Bernie, I believe in his message so much that I’ve contributed money, time and energy to his campaign. If he doesn’t make it, then you bet your butt I’m voting for Hillary. Trump or any of the republican candidates are terrifying, truly. I’m voting for the sane candidate. It’s about who can lead this country into a positive future and not back to the stone age.

    As a woman, I feel that I have a lot at stake here. When you have these pompous assholes who feel that our bodies don’t belong to us, then threatened to shame us for exercising our RIGHT to healthcare. You bet I will fight whomever that has the nerve to go after women.

    • GiGi says:

      AMEN!!! I’m in exactly the same boat… I am a strong Sanders supporter, but you bet your a** I’m voting the party that will protect my interests as a woman, as a liberal, as a social progressive.

    • Kitten says:

      YAY. These are my people 🙂

    • AngelaH says:

      Aims, I am right there with you. I have donated and volunteered for Bernie here as well and I was SO EXCITED to vote for him in my primary. I am excited about him as a candidate. I’ve wrestled over and over with what I will do if he doesn’t get the nomination. I’m so fed up with our two party system and the corruption and greed. I’m at the end of my rope. I honestly had decided that I wasn’t voting for Hillary if she gets the nomination, but something about that didn’t sit right in my heart so I thought it over some more and I know that I am not willing to take the risk of a Republican getting into the office. I just can’t allow it. As much as I’m angry and want to take a stand with my vote, there is too much at stake for me to do that. I am not against others voting third party if that’s their choice, but I couldn’t live with myself if I didn’t put my vote towards someone that has a chance of beating the republicans.

      But I’m still really hoping Bernie gets the nomination. I want to vote for him! If he doesn’t, I will vote for Hillary. I may be pouting and dragging my feet like a two year old, but I will do it.

      • aims says:

        If it comes down to it, between Trump or Hillary, Hillary it is. I too will drag my feet and give a pout, but it’s my feeling that there’s no such thing as a socially responsible republican. I just can’t vote republican. It would hurt my soul. No Hillary doesn’t excite me, but there is no question in my mind that she is the lesser of two evils.

    • Magnoliarose says:

      I spent time working for his campaign and donated but like you understand what is at stake here. I would have preferred Elizabeth Warren over Hilary but if it’s HRC, I will donate and campaign like a woman possessed because do not want one of the Republican female body snatchers in the Oval Office.

  20. Goo says:

    What educated, intelligent human being would support someone like Hillary Clinton? The writing is on the wall…

  21. greenleaf says:

    Well, call me a privileged Bernie Bro but I’m not voting for Hillary Clinton if she wins the nomination. I will vote for the Green Party candidate. Voting for her would be voting directly against my own values and interests (corporate welfare, interventionist, and scapegoating teachers… don’t get me started on her NAE endorsement). Perhaps Clinton supporters should focus on encouraging her to make her positions more palatable to a larger portion of liberals instead of shaming people.

    • The Eternal Side-Eye says:

      Tbh I agree. If your values don’t line up with the Democratic Party or Democratic front runner then you shouldn’t vote Democratic. This is the reality of things. A lot of Sanders supporters views are more lined up with 3rd parties and I don’t think they would have ever really supported a Democratic nominee if he did not run under that party.

      Sanders and Hilary voted 97% the same when it comes down to their actual actions if I’m remembering that correctly, but if you do feel that the 3% is non-negotiable then there’s nothing to be argued over.

    • Asiyah says:

      I’ll vote Green Party too. Been a Nader girl for over a decade.

    • Anon says:

      I’m a Hillary supporter, but I love the conversation and debate that Bernie is bringing to this election. Even if he doesn’t get the nomination, he is pushing her into a position that forces her to concede to some of his ideas, because otherwise he won’t support her as the nominee, and neither will his supporters. That said, in the end, if she does get the nomination (which is looking likely) I hope you do support her as a candidate who is almost identical in terms of policy stances and who has a real chance against the Republicans.

    • amunet ma'at says:

      @ greenleaf I agree. I grew up a Hilary Clinton fangirl. I grew out of those feelings once I started researching, I mean truly researching, her and her actions not her words not her pushed agenda. Now I am disgusted by her and the Republican nominees equally. They are different sides of the same coin. Whether Trump or Hilary get’s the top “honor”, I would be sadden by the deeper implications. I’m not talking surface level of politics of Right vs Left. However, if Bernie gets the nomination that would actually make me update my voter registration info and vote.

    • Magnoliarose says:

      I understand what you are saying. I’m so left that even Bernie is a moderate for me so i get it. I would love a viable multi party system but I don’t think this is the election to make a stand.
      The Supreme is at stake and with more regressive justices on the bench it could have disastrous and long lasting domestic and global effects.
      I choose to take my fight more on a local level right now where I believe the progressive message can have more resonance without sacrificing millions of people for my value system.

  22. CK says:

    Official campaign surrogates should not be suggesting #BernieofBust. Full stop. I saw Rosario Dawson using it on twitter and I was horrified because she works in an official capacity for the campaign. Sure, some hard-left ardent supporters are going to use it, but it should never make it’s way into official campaign dialogue and out of a surrogates mouth. This is Bernie’s “Obama is a dangerous Muslim moment.” I’ve seen speeches of his where he pauses to allow the crowd to finish their boo’ing at the mention of Hillary’s name. His campaign can either hit back at this hard or they can let it continue. I doubt that this is going to help him in the upcoming closed democratic primaries and it sure as hell isn’t going to help him woo superdelegates now that his campaign has taken to attempting to getting the nomination through them if he comes up behind Clinton in pledged delegates.

    • chakatay says:

      THIS! I’ve noticed the upped level of HRC hate in my Twitter / Facebook feeds, the “obscene” comment and his reactions at rallies. I don’t know who in the DNC communicates with his campaign but they need to get a grip.

  23. grabbyhands says:

    I love you Susan, but no.

    Anyone who truly believes that voting Trump or not voting at all because their candidate didn’t get the nomination is a sensible thing to do, that they’re somehow making a stand is a naïve fool, plain and simple. I’m not a particular fan of Hilary Clinton (partially because this is the exact same tack her supports took in 2008 when it was her against Obama), but in a contest between her and Trump or Cruz, I will swallow my pride and put the vote in for her, because at the end of the day, she isn’t going to gut women’s rights, shut the door on nationalized healthcare or advocate for rounding up Muslims and putting them in camps.

    Unfortunately, Democrats (and I speak as a life long registered Democrat) have always had this weakness-the childish, temper tantrum of taking all their toys and going home if they don’t get exactly what they want, consequences be damned. The stakes are too big for this country and too big for the world if either of these two demagogues get into office and voters in this country are about to hand it over nice and tidy simply because they refuse to deal in reality.

    Unfortunately, staying home on election day or voting third party for a candidate that cannot possibly win isn’t taking a stand. It won’t help create a stronger third party system and it won’t scare anyone. All it is going to do is doom any hope of progressive causes seeing the light of day for the next four years.

    • GoodNamesAllTaken says:

      I hear you and even somewhat agree with you, but it presents a real dilemma that can’t be easily dismissed for someone like me. I will feel that I have betrayed my conscience and my values if I vote for either of these two people. Does it make me a better person if I just pick the one I think is less evil? I don’t know. Then whoever wins will be all “I have a mandate!” Maybe it’s better if the polls show that they don’t. I just don’t know.

      • amunet ma'at says:

        Word, consciously I cannot vote for Hilary or Trump because it would be a true betrayal. I think these things are personal and no one has a right to demand anyone votes for such and such because of x,y,z.

      • kg says:


      • grabbyhands says:

        I totally get your dilemma. I am not enamored of either candidate and I find it depressing that this is all we have to choose from. But in this unfortunate lesser of two evils scenario we are faced with, they are still both better than the alternative.

        I do think we would all better served by a third party system. But the US has a long way to go in being a better country before that is a viable possibility and no amount write in names or refusals to vote is going to change it. One of the things that made me nuts about Ralph Nader’s followers wasn’t that I thought they were supporting an unworthy candidate-it was the attitude that once he got the nomination (impossible) EVERYTHING would change. This is complete willful ignorance of how things work in the real world, (which is this-even if he had gotten elected by some insane miracle, all of the open House and Senate seats would also have had to been filled by other Green Party (or very left leaning) candidates in order to have a prayer of getting any type of progressive laws or legislation passed) was maddening. That never was going to happen and what would have resulted in probably even worse gridlock than Obama has been dealing with the last 8 years. At the very least, as bad.

        In my opinion, voting blue at least keeps the door open. Voting Trump (or not voting at all) hands him the election and slams the door on everyone and opens some very frightening possibilities.

  24. SloaneY says:

    I’m voting blue regardless because the alternative is terrifying.

    However….how long do we have to keep voting for atrocious choices and the lesser of 2 evils? This country desperately needs a 3rd and possibly 4th party to challenge the status quo, which has done a whole lot of nothing for years. Obamacare has a few good rules and provisions, but we’re still just as beholden to the insurance companies as we ever were. The middles class is a shambles and doesn’t appear to be on any kind of upswing, no matter how many reports you hear of new jobs (read:part time or severely underpaid). We’re going backwards in social support.

    There is a reason that outsider candidates are getting so much support. People are tired of HAVING to vote for someone they hate because they hate the person on the other side more.

    • The Eternal Side-Eye says:

      But there are literally and currently multiple parties besides Democrat and Republican that people can choose to vote for.

      The problem is that in spite of the complaints lodged on the current system none of those other parties can garner enough support to actually compete. Many of them address and target fringe issues that are currently also covered by other candidates of the two more popular parties. I went to I Side With and took the quiz and ended up with a high percentage support of the Green Party and Jan…but that was after Bernie AND Hilary.

      If I can find two other members of the more popular party that I agree with on more issues than the 3rd party then why would I vote for that person? That in a nutshell is what keeps happening and why 3rd parties never really make it out of obscurity.

      • SloaneY says:

        All right. A viable, centrist, not crazily obscure 3rd party.

      • The Eternal Side-Eye says:

        Granted there’s some crazy 3rd party groups out there but I think what I’m getting at is this idea that many put forward how we have no options – but we do. Or that the establishment is holding Bernie back – when he’s simply not garnering enough votes.

        You do have options and choices, but for better or worse your options won’t always line up with the rest of the country. If 3rd parties were able to appeal to more of the country they wouldn’t be considered so minority but even with their ideals and goals they just don’t really address the issues many Americans consider most prominent. I was pleasantly surprised to see how much I had in common with the Green Party but that was still trailing behind Bernie and Hilary and I consider myself pretty liberal.

      • Ash says:

        Eternal Side-Eye: I’m loving your political comments. We seem to be of a similar mindset. 🙂

      • The Eternal Side-Eye says:

        Thank you Ash 😄

    • Asiyah says:

      “how long do we have to keep voting for atrocious choices and the lesser of 2 evils?”

      for as long as people think that 3rd party candidates negatively affect election outcomes

      for as long as people think that voting based on principles is narcissistic

      for as long as people think that they should vote based on chances of winning

    • Betsy says:

      A successful third party will probably build a revolution from the bottom of the ticket, not the top. Too many of us remember the smoking wreckage of a country Ralph Nader gifted us.

  25. Laura says:

    Sarandon’s comments show her to be in some kind of completely dream like bubble. We have two choices come November, and cannot afford to elect any candidate from what has become a fringe right wing fanatical party; the Republicans. To sit the election out at this point in our history is a terrible mistake with so much on the line. No sour grapes! I’m a Bernie supporter, but if Hillary gets the nomination, I will gladly support and vote for her! We NEED a Democrat in the White House!!

  26. mkyarwood says:

    I can’t believe I’m just reading for the first time that people would vote Trump over Hillary, should Bernie not receive the nomination. This would never, in one trillion years occur to me. I’m so excited to have Hillary in the race, even if she’s not my top choice. And younger Sanders voters, wtf??? Not any of the 25 and unders I know.

    • Asiyah says:

      I’ve read this before, but mostly from people who are ignorant and are only voting for Bernie because he’s “different”

  27. Jana says:

    I have never understood the childish notion that if my candidate doesn’t win my party’s nomination, I’m not voting. Idiots, that’s exactly what has gotten us into this mess in the first place! You should appreciate living in a democratic society, as the alternative of living under a dictator is something most people would not enjoy.

    • Gg says:

      Calling other voters childish, ignorant and living in a bubble is extremely rude and reflects poorly on you.

    • GoodNamesAllTaken says:

      I don’t think that’s what they’re saying. They’re saying they can’t see voting for either candidate, so what are they going to do? Also, I think it’s ridiculous to go around saying vote, vote vote. Some people shouldn’t vote. They don’t know what’s going on in the world, or understand the issues or know the candidates. What good does it do for them to vote? They should stay home.

      • me says:

        I agree. You should only give your vote to a candidate you truly support and are knowledgeable about. Don’t just blindly vote and for God’s sake don’t vote for “the next best thing” because your choice didn’t win the nomination. I’d rather not vote than give my vote to someone I don’t want to win.

  28. frivolity says:

    Sarandon’s comment was not that some Bernie supporters would vote for Trump over Hillary but just that they would not vote. Many have not for a long time and have totally given up on a system that does not represent or care about them. Her comment came directly from the voices of the lower class Americans that she’s visited on the campaign trail who’ve seen their lives and their environments go to hell under the past four or five presidential administrations (at least) – both R and D. Seems to me that position is exactly NOT one from the privileged, but from the people, while the lesser of two evils mindset that we’ve had for decades is precisely what the elite offer to maintain their status quo.

    • amunet ma'at says:

      Agreed, this is how the elite maintain the status quo. People forget that a lot of these candidates are honest friends. They go to church together, work together or operate in the same circles, went to the same schools, sent their children to the same schools, and have spent the past 20 or 30 years growing in associations with the same goals. Putting on the Red or Blue rhetoric come election time does not change your core.

    • Neelyo says:


    • kg says:

      I agree. We have all seen pictures of Hillary hugging W and hanging out with Trump socially. The lesser of two evils rhetoric seems to be to vote based out of fear (even though the parties are not effectively that much different) and not because you stand for anything.

      • The Eternal Side-Eye says:

        Trump was actually quite progressive before this election, which is what is leading many to wonder if he’s running a sham campaign or even believes anything he’s saying.

        He supported Obama. He believed women shouldn’t have their abortion rights restricted. He believed the Republican party needed to be more supportive of minorities. So merely saying she was friends with Trump isn’t an indictment.

        I have two close friends who are Republicans, should I end the friendship because they are?

  29. Neelyo says:

    What angers and saddens me the most about this whole election is how disillusioned it’s made me. I’ve been a Democrat my entire adulthood and I think I’m going independent after November.

    The common theme I’ve heard from Hillary supporters is that she’s better than any Republican, that’s it. While I agree, isn’t that a pretty low bar?

    I am grateful for Bernie for if no other reason, he’s pushed Hillary more to the left or toward what I used to think were principles of the Democratic party.

  30. (Original, not CDAN) Violet says:

    Here’s the link to the video of the entire interview:

    It’s well worth watching and gives context to Susan’s remarks.

    • siri says:

      Thank you! What she says about the status quo makes sense. The rest of it, too. Good interview.

      • (Original, not CDAN) Violet says:


        You’re welcome! I thought both she (and Sarah Silverman in a separate clip, also linked to in that article) were incredibly articulate. I hope more people see the full interview, instead of just reacting to the soundbite.

      • siri says:

        @(Original, not CDAN) Violet : I hope so, too. It’s important to get the context. It’s also important to understand how fundamental the difference is between Hillary and Bernie.

  31. Kelly says:

    Susan Sarandon sounds like a whiny little kid who pouts when they don’t get their way. Go Debra Messing and Jamie Lee Curtis!!

  32. Scal says:

    Trump is a guy who in the last week has said that any woman that has a abortion should have some form of legal punishment, that his rich friends who are Muslims are the exception to the ‘ban all Muslims’ thing (because of course), that it’s okay to start a twitter beef with another presidential candidate because ‘he started it’ and when called out on it says ‘that’s what’s wrong with america’.

    I would vote for Mickey Mouse before I would ever allow that man to become president. Valuing ideological purity at the expense of normal operations of government is what got the Republican party in this mess in the first place. My life and the lives of people I know and care about will be worse under a Trump presidency.

    • Jayna says:

      @Scal, I am stunned, absolutely stunned, reading on here people will sit out the election if Bernie isn’t the nominee. Trump is running a RACIST and MISOGYNISTIC campaGin with few flesh-out policies that he has laid out, just saying whatever makes people happy. He is a hothead and immature and SCARES ME TO DEATH. He has a base that is pushing him forward because of his behavior and buzz remarks. That is who we want running America and giving more power to such a rabid GOP base that is supporting him?

      I guess, go for it, sit it out, and hurt the rest of the country, For all those that sat out when Gore was the nominee, look what happened? George Bush, Dick Cheney, Karl Rove and the country was a mess by the time Bush was out.

      • me says:

        Even if Trump loses, we should all still be scared that he has/had so many supporters. Those idiots are out there and among us. That is the scariest thing.

      • Jayna says:

        @me, I agree. It makes me sad how backwards our country is going when I see all of this support and egging on of Trump’s bad behavior and racism and misogynistic remarks. They revel in it and are rushing out to vote for him.

        America is f’cked.

      • Maggie says:

        Cruz is far scarier than Trump in my opinion. I agree with the comments above saying Trump didn’t think he’d make it this far that’s why he’s so unrehearsed. It was obvious when he was asked about the abortion issue. Abortion is a woman’s issue between herself and her doctor. It has no business being brought into a political arena. I am so thankful I’m Canadian and feel for people in the US. It’s a gong show down there.

      • The Eternal Side-Eye says:

        Am I the only one who’s scared of all of them? It’s like a multi-sided die of crazy. Kasich is absolutely aggressive and regressive towards attitude towards women and their health. Cruz runs his campaign like a maniac and Trump…I need a stiff drink before I’m even able to talk about Trump.

      • Ash says:

        “Am I the only one who’s scared of all of them? It’s like a multi-sided die of crazy. Kasich is absolutely aggressive and regressive towards attitude towards women and their health. Cruz runs his campaign like a maniac and Trump…I need a stiff drink before I’m even able to talk about Trump.”

        Nope. I think the others are significantly worse than Trump. Don’t forget Cruz’s Messiah complex.

        As you mentioned upthread, Trump’s views were more progressive than what he’s been saying. And from the outset, I’ve been saying that this is a sham campaign for Trump in that, for whatever reasons, he’s been acting even crazier for publicity, since he’s not on a reality TV show anymore. I think it blew up in his face, however.

  33. Jessie says:

    I am not American but from the things I see on social media a lot of Bernie supporters demonise Clinton. From a British stand point it just seems odd when there is you know.. Trumph

  34. Dangles says:

    The lesser of two evils = The good cop bad cop routine.

    Can those who rationalize voting for Clinton because she’s the lesser of two evils tell me why you think she’s evil?

  35. Spike says:

    Lifelong Democrat, liberal, feminist, etc. Not voting for Clinton. First election I won’t be voting.

    1) Clinton is in the back pocket of banks & financiers. She received millions in speaking fees. 2) Her entitled attitude about her dangerous email practice put the lives of many people & our country at risk. I have worked very closely with the Information Security community. The protections required to encrypt information data transmission, to secure servers, IP and email accounts; designate ports, validate authorization, etc. are rigorous standards. Even more rigorous to meet federal regulations. I worked with business to ensure that every segment met these these standards. The government has scores of cerified experts at her beck and call. She ignored protocol. She once equated it with dusting a server – housework. Sorry for the rant. 3) She has lied about Benghazi (sp?) and many other situations. 4) She does not believe in her own accountability or take responsibility. 5) She is not interested in poor people. 6) She has alienated feminists, Democrats, young voters, 7) She is the establishment. She lives in her own bubble.

    Bernie has solid ideas. He beat Hilary in multiple states – Oregon, Washington State. His campaign was funded by individual donations. His ideas resonate in many levels. I don’t want go on and on. Many Republicans and Democrats are in the same boat. The person who is our presumptive candidate doesn’t reflect our values and they are being shoved down our throats.

    • The Eternal Side-Eye says:

      Out of everything you listed I notice you didn’t do the other half of the issue.

      What issues do you support that you believe a Republican candidate will support?

      Do you support freedom for women to make choices with their bodies? Immigration reform? Not repealing Obamacare? Increasing minimum wage? Ensuring that marriage equality remains the law of the land?

      I always considered voting a matter of issues, not individuals, but it seems the actual issues and the populations they effect are secondary to many others. In short the advancement of our fellow humans can take a pause for 4 years, perhaps there will be regression and damage done to already struggling populations. Oh well.

      • Dangles says:

        This lesser of two evils nonsense has got us into the mess we’re in today. Today’s lesser evil seems to occupy a space previously occupied by greater evil Hence the Democrats shift to the right. If you want a revolution the corporate rulers aren’t going to give up without a fight and in any fight there’s going to be some pain. So you Clinton apologists really need to stop threatening real progressives with threats about what’s going to happen to in the short term and start looking at the big picture. Clinton is unacceptable even if she’s not as bad as Trump. Just like Trump is unacceptable even if he’s not as bad as Hitler.

      • The Eternal Side-Eye says:

        So basically you don’t have an answer to my question.

        You can’t answer what will happen to women’s biological rights if you or others choose not to vote. You can’t explain how immigration will develop with any of the options of Republicans who are violently against any reform. You don’t have any resources to offer for the individuals who will see their rights rescinded and their status made into 3rd class citizens.

        I’m starting to understand that for many there was apparently always a lovely perfect option. That the people they voted for perfectly represented their ideals and they always had the exact outcome they desired. As a result they are comfortable enough to say it’s a ‘lesser evil’ when they are not immediately given their way. Even in your comments you’re comfortable sacrificing others for an imaginary revolution you can’t predict or explain what will happen if it doesn’t occur, or worse yet…if you end up being the loser in the revolution that you want to incite.

        Because the other side wants a revolution too, a revolution where America is made great again just like in the good ol 1950’s. But this isn’t a threat, it’s just spelling things out for what they are.

  36. Magnoliarose says:

    I implore my fellow Bernie supporters to rethink not voting for HRC. Please reconsider.
    The consequences of a Trump or Cruz would have devastating effects on the poor, women, minorities, disabled people, immigration, foreign relations and the environment.
    Hilary is no friend of mine or progressives in general and her views and past votes give me serious pause but the alternative is frightening. It is very real.
    The Supreme Court has already caused suffering as they eroded civil rights, voting rights, put an inept President in office, weakened regulations and have consistently ruled in favor of special interest groups and not the citizenry.
    Please think about the rape victims who will be forced to give birth against their will. Think about further deregulation that will effect our water sources, food safety and ethical business practices. Think about laws resetting back our civil rights fight back to 1950. Think about healthcare and eduction.
    I look at the state of America and sometimes I just feel weary and hopeless. I don’t even feel frustrated or shocked, just sad for our future.

    We can still fight for our values but this election is probably one of the most important elections we may ever face. 3 justices may retire and I can’t emphasize how catastrophic it would be for such a far right lopsided majority to have life long appointments to the Supreme Court.

    I worked for Bernie and will continue but when it comes down to it, I have to be pragmatic. Just keep an open mind is all I’m asking.

  37. Juluho says:

    It’s a weird place to be in. Democrats are saying ‘anyone is better than Trump’ even if one is really committed to Bernie and feel like he’s the only future for the party or the country. And the same thing is being said by Republicans, ‘you have to get behind Trump because anything is better than Hilary’. Even if one is truly committed to another and think he is the only future for the party.
    I don’t have a lot of words of wisdom other than it sucks.