Because of the Harvey Weinstein story dominating headlines for the past two weeks, we’ve been unable to do some more standard coverage of monthly magazine covers and that sort of thing. The November issue of Elle is annually devoted to “Women In Hollywood,” and there are multiple covers featuring (obvs) exciting women in Hollywood, and I’ll cover that at some point. Last night, Elle hosted their big WIH event in LA, and because of the Weinstein stories still ripping through Hollywood, several of the women used their speeches to discuss sexual assault, harassment and generally inappropriate and gross behavior within Hollywood.
Jennifer Lawrence wore this Dior gown which is… okay. Not the best, not the worst. The styling isn’t great, but I’m only saying that because I actually enjoyed her Brigitte-Bardot-esque styling during the ‘mother!’ promotional tour. During her speech, Jennifer Lawrence talked about the harassment and general disgusting behavior she dealt with in the early days of her career. These stories… my God.
“When I was much younger and starting out, I was told by producers of a film to lose 15 pounds in two weeks,” she said, revealing another actress before her had already been fired for not losing the weight fast enough. But it did not end there, she said.
“During this time a female producer had me do a nude line-up with about five women who were much, much, thinner than me. We are stood side-by-side with only tape on covering our privates,” she added. “After that degrading and humiliating line-up, the female producer told me I should use the naked photos of myself as inspiration for my diet.”
Lawrence said she tried to stand up for herself and told another producer she thought the weight loss demands were not appropriate.
“He said he didn’t know why everyone thought I was so fat, he thought I was ‘perfectly f***able.’” The actress said she felt “trapped” by the experience. “I let myself be treated a certain way because I felt I had to for my career,” she shared. “I’m still learning that I don’t have to smile when a man makes me uncomfortable,” she added. “Every human being should have the power to be treated with respect because they’re human.”
When J-Law issued her statement about Harvey Weinstein last week and said that Weinstein had never harassed her in any way, I took her at her word that she didn’t believe she had been harassed, but I also noted that in my opinion, J-Law has a high tolerance for douchebaggery and inappropriate behavior. It’s clear that Jennifer has been harassed, abused and victimized many times throughout the course of her career – it’s just a matter of Jen being able to properly identify what is happening to her. To be fair, though, a lot of young women (across all industries) don’t have the language or the experience to identify what’s happening or why certain moments are abusive or inappropriate.
Here are two more ladies in black at the WIH event. Margot Robbie wore Calvin Klein and Nikki Reed wore Victoria Beckham. I cannot look at Nikki and Ian Somerhalder anymore without thinking that their relationship is so unhealthy.
Photos courtesy of WENN.
She still hasn’t learned considering her recent experiences. And she’s dating someone that put her through hell (and yes having a director film you when you cannot breathe is abusive). So yea I would say she doesn’t have a handle on what’s appropriate at 27.
The dress is plain and yawn.
And if we continue to have woman propping up abusers for career purposes (see kate and Meryl), internalize misogyny and men who turn a blind eye then yes this will pass and Hollywood will continue business as usual.
Reminder that the most powerful man in the country had rape cases opened when elected. And men and 53% of WW voted for him. Complicit runs deep
+1 Nicole.
Ugh I am much older than her and it took me until about 39 to stop pretending I wasn’t uncomfortable when men/ women made inappropriate remarks about my body or face.
Women in power have been just as horrible to me as men though it is different.
You don’t have to be in film to have a story similar to jlaw.
Please stop blaming attractive people for not attacking and putting people in place every effing time. Truthfully if they did they wouldn’t have time to work.
I agree so much with this denise. I didn’t feel and understand and use my power until I was 40.
I didn’t say anything about attractive people? Confused where this went. I mention Hollywood because that’s the industry she works. I would find it harder to find someone who has not been harassed than who did.
And I had to have therapy to figure out how to stop this behavior when it happened to me. Luckily I’m young and I had therapy in a young age that I’ve continued sporadically for years.
@nicole, this rarely happens to unattractive people so it is part of the conversation. She is treated that way because of how she looks. attractive people have comments coming at them all the time from how great they look to what they need to do to be perfect.
This is what someone like jlaw,paltrow, and berry deal with all the time.
Deciphering when someone has gone too far and when it is dangerous and the level of your discomfort, cause your never comfortable with it, takes time.
Denisemitch
Please stop perpetuating the dangerous myth that sexual targeting is exclusive to atteactive women. It is blatantly false and shifts the goal pists when we talk about misogyny and psychopathy. this happens to beautiful Hollywood starlets, this happens to 60 year old factory workers, this happens to 12 year old girls in gym class, this happens to women covered head to toe in burkhas. This happens.
@enoughsaid ,not at the same frequency which determines coping mechanisms. That is just the truth
and people who might be considered unattractive are told that they should be grateful for the attention, as it might be the only time they get it.
stop victim blaming. Assault, abuse, happens to anyone, at any time, in any situation, that the abuser wants it to. It’s the fault of the abuser, every time, and has NOTHING to do with any victim, ever.
ETA: I just can’t with Denise. I am sitting here crying because I am so enraged at her fucking stupid posts I want to throw something at my computer. I’m gonna go read another thread.
@archiegood, nothing in my post victim blames. It all actually defends JLaw and how she has coped with her situation.
denisemitch
Wait. What?
I can’t.
Abuse is about power. Nothing more.
This is exactly what was wrong with Mayim’s stupid Op-ed. There are women in full religious modest clothing that get abused.
Abuse is about power. Can’t say it enough
denisemich
Abusers find a “reason” to abuse. Some women who might not be “conventionally” attractive may be violated for having large breasts, a rear end, or perhaps being the only woman in a male-dominated field. A woman might be a racial minority, short or tall. She might be thin, or heavyset. Might remind someone of their disliked mother. Her voice might be lovely or grating. Perhaps she’s quite brilliant and outshines others intellectually. She might have low self-esteem or regard herself highly and therefore be targeted. She might exist within patriarchy.
@denisemich please stop. you obviously dont understand that assault and harassment have more to do with control, power and humiliation than sex. just stop.
Yeah, others have said it better already but NO DENISE. JUST NO.
I am currently 8 months pregnant and have gained almost 40lbs on a frame that was still carrying too much weight from my last pregnancy. I am bloated, tired, bad skin, the works. And yet literally 1 month ago, I was harassed and touched by the husband of a client while at work, in front of her no less. He snuck up behind me and tried to rub my shoulders, made repeated lewd comments and made the motions of masturbating a bottle while I tried to ignore him and continue interviewing his wife about her health. It had NOTHING to do with attraction and EVERYTHING to do with power, control and some sort of bizarre desire to see how uncomfortable he could make me. And this is not even remotely an isolated incident. So miss me with your nonsense.
Lee1: How absolutely horrible for you to go through that! I’m sending hugs and hope you are ok.
A few days ago, I posted about how my ex BIL did something similar, in a room full of people, including his wife and my husband. I was also pregnant (about 7 or 8 months) and it was the last of his filthy, groping episodes that started when I was 7 years old. I picked up a long, sharp, pointy knife and calmly told him what I’d do with it if he ever touched me again. What I didn’t mention was his reaction. He didn’t even bother pretending that it was “an accident”,considering the congestion. No, he just tilted his head and gave me a snigger and and smarmy smile that, even today, makes me feel like vomiting, and then he just walked away. Luckily, my husband followed him out… The very strange thing is that my sister (his wife) swears she wasn’t there when this happened. She was in a terrible, abusive relationship with him so, maybe she blocked it out. Despite so many family members being present, this event was never spoken about, until 15 years later, when my sister caught him touching their 4-year-old granddaughter inappropriately. That’s another story.
The point is, ANYONE can be a victim. I was never considered terribly attractive, didn’t have a great figure or was anything special. I’ve always dressed modestly and never behaved in a flirtatious manner. In my case, I do believe I exuded some sort of vulnerability: I was taught to be a pleaser, had zero self-confidence and my father had died when I was 5, leaving my mother with 5 children, in a strange, new country with no family support. It doesn’t matter who you are, though. This type of behaviour is about exerting power, control and humiliation over the victim. It’s also true what Kristen Stewart said. If the predator is confronted, he might feel bad for a minute, but then shrugs and continues on his merry way.
Denise, you ain’t right.
i’m always sort of wary of those hollywood stories of how people hurt themselves during filming, or how they trained so much their spleen ruptured, or didn’t call their gf for months. more often than not they’re an exaggeration of reality to sell the movie.
Well multiple people recounted the story like it was cool until people were like “wtf” about it.
@Nicole, idk remember when everyone was saying how natalie portman did all her ballet scenes for black swan, her feet were bleeding and all that jazz, except it wasn’t true and she only did some of the scenes?
Well she did that for her oscar push. And any ballerina (myself included) never believed she did most of those scenes. The feet, technique and level of difficulty is not something that can be achieved over the course of a shoot.
Ironically Jen is a ballerina in her next movie and its apparent which scenes are her because of the technique snippets I’ve seen
@Nicole
One of my homegirls is a ballerina and she literally laughed her azz off at Natalie’s claim but it was all hype. They exaggerate for headlines. I like ballet for exercise but in no way would I be able to achieve what dancers do in 20 years in a few months. It isn’t realistic.
It can really difficult to identify abuse when you are in a relationship. Especially when it’s not textbook.
When I do outreach one of the most common things people ask is if it is actually abuse. They are in severe distress, and they doubt their experience as being valid and equal.
This. All of this x infinity.
Validation is so important. Women’s experiences are so often invalidated in our every day lives when something like this happens, we immediately question the truth of it. We are raised in an atmosphere where men’s reality is the default setting.
In an abuse situation, women are often considered to be hysterical, blowing things out of proportion, exaggerating, encouraging the behavior, enjoying playing the victim… and this is from people you finally get the nerve up to go to for help.
Hearing that what you are experiencing is real, unacceptable and NOT YOUR FAULT is empowering. And shockingly rare.
@denisemich You need to listen to and/or read Heather Ross’ story about what happened to her and how Carrie Fisher threatened the Oscar Winning Producer after Ross was assaulted. Ross stated she always thought she was “safe” because she was “fat” and “unattractive”. Most assaults are not about sex, but instead about power.
Carrie Fisher = still awesome.
Internalized misogyny is not easy to recognize or internally disassemble. I’m a woman in her thirties who minored in women’s studies, and I still catch myself thinking misogynistic things occasionally. I hope for her sake she starts to reconcile it earlier in her life than later. At the end of the day, all of us lose when women hate themselves, even if we don’t realize it.
Wait a minute, this thread got very confusing. Nicole I disagree with your first post. And I was relating to what Jenn said here: “I’m still learning that I don’t have to smile when a man makes me uncomfortable,” she added.
I think that’s perfectly normal at her age. I was the same way. It took me till 40 to truly know my power. BUT…I think things are changing and younger women are coming into their power earlier.
I in no way agree that conventional attractiveness has anything to do with t his. I have been young and beautiful, and it is true that you MAY get more CONSTANT unwanted attention that way, but I will tell you something, I am rare in that i have been both. You know why? Weight struggles. So before I lost weight, I was the fat girl with the nice face. This was in my teens. You cannot even know the horror of being molested when you feel unattractive, because you are sure no one will ever believe a man wanted to molest you! Also, men feel totally free to comment on your body publically either way. They will make mooing sounds and call you names, you think that’s not harrassment! I have played both sides of this street and boy do I have stories from both sides of it.
@Darla. All true.
Darla,
I have the same perspective. I was an awkward bullied Olive Oyle that blossomed when I was 14. In my mind, I was unusually ugly from being tormented so terribly, so the turn around was unexpected and strangely unwelcome. I had made peace with my lot in life and invisibility had been a comfortable hiding place. But it didn’t keep me from having a traumatizing experience. The harassment didn’t stop it just changed, and because I fell into a career notorious for harassment, I became an expert at deflecting, minimizing and strategizing in the moment to avoid a potential problem. It didn’t always work.
Looks don’t matter. It isn’t about that. It is about subjugation and ownership and assault. I don’t like the idea that being considered plain makes life more comfortable because it is condescending. Women know that since beauty is a commodity invented by men that women who are considered beautiful get rewarded for it and receive more options. And if you add in some white skin and blonde hair, then it is an advantage in a society dominated by white male privilege.
Let’s not whine about an irrelevant issue like Mayim B and add it to a critical problem that affects us all.
Well said Magnolia!
Amen to all of this.
I think the people in Hollywood just have different views of what is acceptable behavior, which is why I think some of them simply do not “see” what’s wrong with things the rest of us would complaint about. I remember a story when Zoe Kravitz first met Jennifer Lawrence at her house — Lawrence answered the door in a towel, saying she was about to take a shower, then dropped the towel and walked naked around Kravitz. I know they are the same gender, but that’s still not appropriate behavior. Yet that type of thing is “nothing” to people in Hollywood.
JenLaw Dropped her towel opening a door to greet someone , wow who else does that. That’s just Gross.
Not all people in Hollywood behave like that, but obviously JennL. does.
I always found her behavior during interviews ,gross.
Lavin wtf is your damage with J Law?
Your comments are consistently disgusting on every thread that features her and you never seem to comment anywhere else so I can only assume you’re a troll.
….This is very telling, she did what HW did, and it meant to be a joke for her……now i think she saw more of HW than she maybe ever wanted, but i can imagine that, when HE dropped the towel, that Jennifer laughed at/about him and didn’t took it seriously.
I believe her, when she say’s he never harassed her, because it needs more to “harass” her, she didn’t felt harassed. Maybe she don’t know exactly what Harassment is, or where it start’s…
*sorry English is not my first Language.
sorry ,hon ,but what you just commented was totally irrelevant , all she wants to say is that the
“hollywood establishment ” forced her to loose weight against her will ,anyroad ,thats da way the industry works ,
No, my comment was because Lawrence said earlier that she never witnessed or was aware of anything “inappropriate” from Weinstein. And it’s not just HER.
I think a lot of people in Hollywood who say they were never aware of any inappropriate behavior by Weinstein, could be saying that simply because they don’t even know what’s “appropriate” anymore.
At this point and I am so done with Hollywood at this point. They are close their eyes on sexual perverse nature and I suppose to give these people a pat on the back for standing up to sex bullies? No, none of them get a pass.
Uhhh I’ve got some bad news for you, in no way is this limited to Hollywood.
@handwoven. I know this happens everywhere bit that is not what I am saying. I am saying is that these people wants to be all nice and sweet towards the victims and did nothing in the early. This is why I have had it with Hollywood.
Have you noticed that there is ZERO Hollywood conversation about reconfiguring the system so that people (women, children, men) can’t be harrassed/humiliated/exploited a la Weinstein. Because all the people in powerful positions DON’T WANT IT TO STOP.
Watch them do absolutely f*** all to weed this type of bs out. And no, I don’t think more women in higher up positions will do it. Women can be predators or enablers too. The entire industry needs to be independently vetted (in a way that can’t be manipulated) transparently.
Tjis is not helped, however, when people don’t understand when they’re experiencing coercion, abuse or harrassment.
JLaw doesn’t entirely get it, as many others don’t. Not helped by the lack of boundaries or consequences in the industry she’s in.
I’d legit like to hear her recount these same experiences, and others, 30 years from now to see if her take has changed.
Great comment.
I’ll add, most of the abuse from men I experienced was enabled, sometimes facilitated, and definitely supported by other women. In some cases the women doled out their own share of abuse. So yeah I’m wary of everyone and don’t see anyone as a saint.
I empathize with J Law. Once you’ve been abused, it twists your brain a bit and if more abuse follows, it builds on that and then it’s really hard if not impossible to recognize going forward. This is why being silenced is so dangerous. If we can’t speak or do and are dismissed or not heard, we have no safety or hope of saving ourselves.
Mia Kirshner wrote an article about exactly this – what the system can and should do to protect actors in the future. I posted a link the other day, but I don’t think many people saw it so I’ll post it again. Overall though, I think you are entirely correct. Most people in Hollywood, especially most people with power, don’t actually care or don’t actually want change. It’s all still for PR for most of them, I mean – great, Weinstein was expelled from AMPAS. They can pat themselves on the back without worrying about the fact that Polanski, Cosby and Allen are still members or that they are still giving out awards and nominations to Mel Gibson and Casey Affleck. It’s a joke at this point.
Anyways, here’s Mia’s article from the weekend:
https://beta.theglobeandmail.com/opinion/i-was-a-victim-of-harvey-weinstein-but-we-have-to-focus-on-the-future/article36584019/?ref=http://www.theglobeandmail.com&
Both Jlaw and Reese’s stories were about things that happened when they were 15 and 16. WTF. First, I have to side eye parents who I’m assuming were around and the studios that let this kind of abuse happen. Really depressing.
Thanks, Lee1. I think I’ve just been taken aback that they’re not even pretending to come up with a never again plan. They’ve just kind of closed ranks which says there are tons more predators in the business.
@Annec
Having read a lot of the accounts of models and photographers on Cameron Russell’s instagram I’d say parents can still be outmaneuvered. Sometimes a mom was in the next room when the young person in question was getting photographed and, the photographer groped them or touched them quickly and inappropriately – like when Ben Affleck tweaked Hilarie Burton. Some accounts I’ve read inappropriate touching took place in a room full of people, and it was played off as not that serious.
If you’ve been preying on people for decades you’ve probably learned how to get around most obstacles – especially if you can pull the “I can’t work in these conditions” (i.e. with a parent/friend in the room) excuse.
I’m sort of done with Hollywood …it’s seems all fake. One of the biggest movers and shakers and powerbrokers in Hollywood film at the pinnacle is a Abuser, a rapist, a brute, a monster.
One of the most famous father figures on tv, turned out to be an abuser, drugging women, raping them, a jerk.
And then there’s the people still working in the Industry right now, behind the scenes, actors , actresses, agents, managers who may be hiding things to keep their positions.
It’s a cesspool of disgust. .
I’m like embarrassed for Ian. Calm down bro. He tries too hard.
I can’t decide if he became more try hard after being married or not. But they are cringe
He was always try hard.
Ian is gorgeous. The ladies look great, in the black dresses.
So over Jennifer L.
HarveyW is horrid, the guy is a monster.
I don’t know why people are trying so hard to make Jennifer Lawrence a victim. Some things that happened to her she found offensive others she didn’t. I don’t think that means she’s in denial or doesn’t know what happened to her.
I agree with you, Louise.
I think it’s because Jennifer isn’t very well liked by the people on this site but I can’t figure out why. That happens a lot around here.
Actually that can be exactly what that means. Often times people dissociate from their experiences to protect themselves. That’s literally how the brain protects you from experiences like these. I have kids who think the abuse they suffer is normal and not offensive. Doesn’t change that they were a victim of abuse.
Just from the stories we KNOW off jen has been screamed at, degraded and punctured a lung and needed oxygen but didn’t get medical attention because her loving bf wanted another take. That’s abuse.
@nicole
I understand what you are trying to say, but I wish we could stop trying to define her experiences, her abuse, and her reactions for her. She did what she had to do to survive. Period. We don’t know all the particulars of her relationship, we know some gossip. Right now she is telling how she had to cope to get through her abuse as a teen. Does it impact her life now, of course! That’s not for any of us to try and define for her. By doing so, you help to perpetuate the silence, the fear, the guilt for victims.
Yes exactly. Many times we don’t know that we were abused till much, much later after the incident occurred.
Which is why it’s incredibly disturbing that knowing this about abuse survivors, we would still label them as complicit for possibly not reporting the abuse they witnessed, whether it be directed towards them or others.
Yep. Sometimes she tells stories about on set things and its “oh he pulls stuff out of me” or “I wanted to get a good shot” which is disturbing on many levels. More disturbing that she is dating someone that I believe was abusive towards her but they sell it as “being genius”
There’s no words for that except she has no idea how damaging that is. And eventually she will once she works with others that don’t treat her that way. Or date men that don’t treat her that way. Its sad really.
I see it day in and day out when that moment “clicks” in sessions. Its not about defining for her. But we have guidelines on abuse for a reason. Clients often don’t see it that way to survive. That’s not shaming. That’s literally part of my job…to help people reason these things out.
Agreed, Kitten. There have been so many things I’ve read in the past week about abuse/harassment that suddenly resonated, bringing back a memory I’d stuffed away to be able to cope. Sadly, I imagine my experience is quite common.
@Nicole – This exactly. I’m so glad you’re here. Thanks for sharing your expertise.
Well said, Nicole.
People sometime don’t, or aren’t ready, or aren’t able, to see what is abusive. It’s hard to admit people close to you have mistreated you.
@Nicole
Thanks for saying this! I have been abused by my parents and at the time I actually thought all families operated like mine. And my parents were quick to reinforce this narrative that our family was normal and the others were dangerous eccentrics. You cannot really see abuse while you’re still IN it.
I’ve been in therapy for a while now, and my very seasoned psychiatrist has to breathe and stop herself from crying when I recount a Sunday with the family… And it all seemed perfectly normal to me at the time.
I think the same applies to Hollywood, a closed society of systemic abuse.
@Kitten – agree totally. Just reading these posts took me back to a horrible situation when I was young and interviewing with an agency director for a modeling job in a hotel room. I got out of there but not before being held down by my throat and molested with his hand. When I started to scream he let me go. Every single abuse event in my life, and there are at least half a dozen, was triggered by power lust, not just attraction to a pretty girl. Demeaning, degrading and scaring women is the turn-on for these kinds of freaks.
Well said Nicole.
I have noticed other stories she has told that in my opinion were emotional abuse. I remember something about a mean prank that was pulled on her on set of Hunger Games after she won her Oscar.
I personally hate hate hate all kind of humiliating pranks and always get offended. Maybe she is used to it but I would have been so mad.
@Louise I agree. It’s like people need for her to be a victim of Harvey. They are pretty much calling her a liar. If she said she didn’t experience any sexual harassment from Harvey then maybe she didn’t. This is not a little girl and I think JLaw may know better than some of us what harassment is. Clearly she knows that things have happened to her that made her uncomfortable as she just expressed. I think she would know if Harvey was inappropriate with her. I will take her at her word until she says otherwise. I will not listen to people on a website who seems disappointed that she isn’t one of his victims.
@V4Real I totally believe that Harvey did not abuse her. Some people have an aura that repel a certain kind of abusive person. I also think that he might have “respected” her more because she was not a nepotism starlet and rose on her own merits from a very young age.
It is just how narcissistic abusers work sometimes. When they feel someone is close to them or has gained respect from them for some reason, they steer clear of victimizing them.
KLO
So Weinstein’s victims didn’t have the right aura? You just don’t get it. There’s absolutely nothing about Jennifer that inherently prevented her from being abused. Weinstein decided not to or didn’t get the chance to assault or harass her. Abuse is about the abuser.
She’s worked with other abusive dudes. Heck she’s worked with mostly known abusers.
And these are stories that came straight from jen.
I’m just saying that knowing my work in neuroscience and human behavior what she describes is abuse. Our brains are built to protect us and rationalize it. That’s a survival technique. That’s what you unpack in therapy. No matter how you slice it being screamed out for hours a day on a set is abusive.
@Enough Already I knew that someone was going to react to my comment like this. I get why you did. That does not mean this is what I meant.
I wrote the “aura” comment for personal reasons, for I have steered clear from a known abuser because I reminded him of someone he personally cared about and respected. It was not about any “positive qualities” that I personally had, but the abusers personal preferences and quirks. I just wasnt his cup of tea.
This has nothing to do with someone having the “right aura” to be abused. Stop reaching.
KLO
Lol you admit you realized how your comment was going to be taken but I’m the one who’s reaching? Okay. Universally speaking, your anecdotal experience doesn’t smooth out the rough edges of your comment, even if I understand your explanation. Weinstein harassed A-listers, women just starting out, Hollywood royalty, unknowns you name it. But whatevs.
@Enough Already
yes, I admit it.
i just happened to be fed up with smoothing over every goddamn word so no one could start picking on me. I usually do this here but this single time I hoped for good faith in my intentions and did not.
Sorry?
You on the other hand state that you perfectly understand my explanation and still have the need to bust my “ovaries”.
Take a seat?
@KLO
I know what you mean. They choose women they see as being more vulnerable, or like you said, what their personal preference is. Maybe they choose someone because they seem more meek and less likely to put up a fight or report them. I think that’s what you mean?
@Snowflake thanks.
I think anyone can become a target of abuse when the circumstances are wrong enough.
KLO
I can understand your experience and still disagree with the conclusions those experiences led you to. As for busting your ovaries and your request that I have a seat I have no real intentions of doing either. We can, however, agree to disagree with a little more civility if you sre so inclined.
@KLO I understood what you meant too, hun. I have trouble feeling articulate and stay out of most conversations because I feel I will not be understood without over explaining myself.
I agree with KLO
There are a million different reasons why an abuser picks one victim and not another. He might identify a person with someone he once knew and that can affect how he treats that person. Also how a person reacts to different things can effect the behavior and it is all different just depends on how that abusers mind works. Some abusers go after strong targets and others hone in on weak targets. Some are attracted to certain personality traits and etc. There is no set rule, it is very much dependent on that abusers make up.
Those issues with J Law and certain directors may seem to her as if the directors were trying to make her a better actress. She’s not seeing abuse but he’s elevating her game. Not an excuse just my interpretation.
I guess my problem is asserting the opposite is as damaging as declaring she is. These women signed NDAs and even if they wanted to talk about it, they can’t. Maybe they aren’t ready or can’t take the risk. Haven’t we moved beyond who to believe at this point to every woman was a victim who encountered him in one way or the other? Do you honestly think any of us can look at someone and tell what happened? If a woman CAN’T speak about it, then it doesn’t matter about belief because the shocking fact is they can’t say whatever they want to without reprisals. They aren’t ALLOWED to name names, and that is the most heinous abusive angle of this scandal because it made them hostages and accused of complicity without being able to defend themselves.
He wasn’t a discriminate abuser so the possibility holds that anyone could have been a victim and that to me is more honest, and we don’t know. We just don’t know and will probably never know.
What criteria is anyone using to make these decisions on who they think this powerful bully rapist monster would have avoided? Not a single actress had more power than him, and he could crush each of them at his whim if he wanted to, and he did.
Is it because it is too complicated to think of some of these women as giving in to him? Why is it too hard to believe that any actress in Hollywood may have had an encounter? Is it because if they have, you can’t see them the same? Or would it shatter a view of a favorite?
That is part of the problem, and that is why women CAN’T speak either for fear of being a disappointment or a failure or weak or a slut or complicit or unworthy or tainted and not merely a victim.
“I took her at her word that she didn’t believe she had been harassed, but I also noted that in my opinion, J-Law has a high tolerance for douchebaggery and inappropriate behavior. It’s clear that Jennifer has been harassed, abused and victimized many times throughout the course of her career – it’s just a matter of Jen being able to properly identify what is happening to her” >> This was my train of thought as well.
Sometimes rationalizing things away or having high tolerance is the only way to keep on going.
There is actually a term in psychology called “neurotic naivety” – you are always abused and always told that it was not abuse (gaslighting), so you compartmentalize and still think of the abuser as a “good person” so you could keep on having contact with them without having a psychological breakdown. It happens to many people who have been regularly abused.
Its like when you stop smelling things when you have to be in a smelly environment for a lengthened period of time. Your sense of smell numbs itself out so you wouldnt throw up.
Oh wow. This analogy brought tears to my eyes because it home so squarely. For me and so many friends. Just wow.
This. 24/7 this.
KLO: this is so true, of many abused people I know, myself included. It is so hurtful to think that the person who is supposed to protect you (adoptive parents, in my case) want to actually harm you instead. I needed to love and trust someone, though, and they were all I had, so for a time I told myself that the abuse was a necessary, normal”part of” love, it had to be. If I fully accepted that it was abuse, it would mean they didn’t love or want me, that no one did…which is why it took me so long to recognize the truth. Thanks for your insightful comment.
What is wrong with Hollywood?? A naked line up to use as inspiration for a diet? If someone would have said that to me as a teen, it honestly would have destroyed me. I really hope she hasn’t experienced other sexual harassment. I do wish she would stop idealizing DA though, he’s abusive and that’s also an issue.
I know of a sorority that did this during rush week, except they didn’t give tape to cover anything. They just circled in Sharpe the areas that needed to lose fat.
It’s a sick circle for those girls, and for Hollywood too. Many were abused/ humiliated and when they get into a position of power instead of stopping the abuse they perpetrate it. I believe it’s a “i had to go through it, why shouldn’t they” mentality. It’s really sad and sick; it’s like the victim is lashing out to take control by creating new victims.
This is why people need to get help for their mental health, to keep that as important as physical health. Abuse victims either reach out for help or become abusive themselves.
It’s par of the course for people starting out. In movies, in fashion. Not everyone of course, but a huge %. I’m not victim blaming. It’s simply the power structure. And too many people accepting said power structure even where they should know better plus the complicity of media.
2 examples:
1. Thandie Newton has been talking about a particularly horrid audition she had as a young actress, with a female casting director in the room as it happened. And the bitch of it is the director used to play the video to his mates, one of whom drunkenly propositioned Thandie at a festival years later which is when she discovered the date of the video.
http://variety.com/2016/film/news/thandie-newton-sexual-abuse-director-audition-video-1201807780/
2. Michael Bay and his infamous auditions and how he treats the women on his sets. He treated Megan Fox so badly in terms of sexual harrassment and weight shaming, but when she discussed his behaviour in public, hollywood AND the public called her ungrateful and a b!tch for daring to complain and for calling Michael rude names because how dare she. No one addressed *his* behaviour except for one or two articles here and there that were water off a duck’s back.
https://www.thecut.com/2016/06/history-of-michael-bay-being-a-sexist-jerk.html
https://www.thedailybeast.com/the-world-according-to-michael-bay-the-donald-trump-of-cinema#pq=zZYsO0
Shia Lebeuf of all people explicitly and publicly explained the harrassment of Megan Fox, but she was the one who lost her career and eventually had to crawl back to hollywood. I mean when Spielberg blacklists you, you have nowhere to go except down. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-2005537/Steven-Spielberg-demanded-Megan-Fox-fired-Transformers-Hitler-comment.html (confirmed by Michael to GQ magazine that Spielberg demanded Megan be fired)
I remember the comments calling her an ungrateful starlet who was talking trash about the director who gave her her big break. In one scene he wanted her to lean seductively over a motorcycle (for no good reason) and she stormed off to her trailer. Nearly every article after her statement was from cast and crew praising Bay and saying what an arrogant (insert horrible name) Fox was.
Right, it is all part of the same sexism. Women should recognize that they are disposable sex objects. We only hired her for her tits. How dare they think they should actually be valued and respected!
I had little respect for Steven Spielberg to begin with but after this story I lost it all. Fuck him and Michael Bay.
I stopped respecting Spielberg in the early 90s after reading book by Julia Philips, you’ll never eat lunch in this town again, which documented hollywood in the 70s and 80s.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/You%27ll_Never_Eat_Lunch_in_This_Town_Again
Everything i’ve heard about his behind the scenes behaviour confirms her criticisms and reading of him.
When Arnold was running for governor, there were women that came forward that he had assaulted on set. The wife backed him up and then we got our own sexual assaulter governor.
I remember this and could not understand why everyone was okay with Bay going out of his way to end her career because she didn’t want to gain weight. Pad her or recast but don’t destroy her career because you’re ticked she said no.
Also I don’t get how she’s blacklisted but they are back with Mel Gibson after Hacksaw Ridge.
When are receipts on Bay coming? Because I doubt that’s an isolated incident.
Re: that footage of Thandie Newton
I was thinking of her and that recently and realised that there are a lot of times when a camera is running but before or after the cut, where actors doing scenes that involve semi or full nudity are filmed and that in a lot of cases directors or producers keep stuff that is edited out or reshot. Seems like that’s a moment where footage can be misused; like Bay claiming he has no idea where that vid of Fox washing his car is. Is there anything really stopping him from sharing that footage with other like-minded “friends”?
There should be.
What she describes that story is absolutely horrible. No one should have to go through that, especially someone that young.
There’s been a lot of speculation here that she has a high tolerance for abusive directors. Hearing this awful story, it makes me wonder if that’s true, and she puts up with it to prove to herself that she CAN, after experiencing something like this, where she had to feel utterly powerless.
Nail. Head. Excellent point @Lucy2.
@Lucy (not to you specifically, but to the tone of the thread)
Here’s what I don’t like. She is learning to overcome this behavior. She had nudes leaked and very confidently refused to be shamed. She was vigilant about her right to privacy and more so her right to do what the hell she wanted with her body.
I don’t like that we are making her sound too stupid to accept her own assault and harassment. I know this isn’t the intent, but she’s telling us she is vulnerable and these posts just sound like “I told you so”. Who are we to define her abuse? Who are we to say how she has handled herself since that time. She is obviously empowered and is unafraid to use to share her vulnerability. All we need to say is “thank you”, “we here you”, “we support you”. All the speculation about her ability to recognize her abuse is so troublesome. Enough already.
Stop focusing on their abuse and start applauding their strength for speaking up.
I think once Jen dumps the abusive (he has a history of it) director “boyfriend” I think we’ll start hearing more about what Jennifer has endured as a young, pretty actress in Hollywood. She can’t because Darren is creepy and weird and I am sure whatever their relationship actually is (fauxmance, real) that has factored into it.
Darren wants awards for mother! he won’t get them, but he wants them and Jennifer is his pawn to try to get them and she won’t be able to say much until he gets what he wants.
Lemme guess you think her and josh belong to each other
“After that degrading and humiliating line-up, the female producer told me I should use the naked photos of myself as inspiration for my diet.”
That woman needs to go rot. I know there’s a lot of internalized misogyny at work – but my GOD. What kind of person honestly thinks that sort of thing is okay? It’s almost worse in a way that it’s a woman doing it – it comes off as ‘hey, I’ve had to deal with a lot of bullshit, what makes these actresses so special that they should be immune?’. It’s the whole ‘hazing’ type of attitude – I put up with a terrible experience and am ‘fine’ so I don’t feel bad for inflicting it on someone else.
It’s disgusting how many people keep the cycle going, and have no issue with being awful humans. This woman didn’t commit a crime, per se, but she’s a piece of crap. Harvey is a criminal piece of excrement, and every single person on boards, HR, whatever who have had to listen to these men and women pour their heart out to them only for them to turn around and protect the shit out of their abusers should be subpoenaed.
Those producers need to be called out and shamed. This behaviour would definitely be sexual harassment if not worse and must be stopped. Weinstein wasn’t alone in his abusive behaviour and the others need to be put out in the open as well.
@Erinn
I think I vaguely remember a documentary where a female boss did nothing about harrassent of “hot” female employees by male employees because she thought that being “hot girls” they brought it on themselves. So she was kind of punishing them for being – in her mind – THOT, and worse she encouraged the boysy atmosphere because she considered herself “one of the guys”.
I feel like some women unfortunately internalize to survive, esp. in a boss position.
Jen said she wasn’t abused by Harvey, I believe her. She was abused by others, and I’ll take her at her word that those abuses happened.
I tend to believe her too. Maybe she didn’t come into his orbit until she was more famous and already known for her willingness to say anything. She would have been too much of a risk for him
Stripe – that’s what I’m thinking too. Maybe Because Jen has no filter, Harvey didn’t want to risk it. Predators are very careful about their prey. Not that it’s the victims’ faults in anyway.
I know this is a serious discussion, but I have to say it because it’s bugging me. Did Margot lose her bedazzlement off of one of her heels?
Also, I imagine this has been a very eye-opening and hopefully soul searching week for JLaw.
It was all I could see when I looked at the photos!
I hear you. Also, I have noticed glimmers of self-reflection on her part earlier as well. I recall a junket for “Joy” where she was angrily going off about everyone using her character (Joy Mangano) and telling her she owed them and a sentence Jennifer said “I am here not because of you but in spite of you” with a vibe of personal vengeance that I had never seen from her before.
She is not THAT naive. She understands her life. her goofy act is just to keep everyones spirits up. She is tough as hell, people. Wake up.
Yes KLO. She has said things that are overlooked but very poignant. I have said over and over she is a tough cookie, but no one believes me. However, it is toughness born out of necessity and to survive in a ruthless industry.
She has been through a lot, and anyone who says otherwise is shortchanging her determination and survival instincts.
But I think this week has been rough, but I hope she comes out on the other side stronger and more contemplative. Maybe less tolerant too.
I noticed that shoe on Margot and was bewildered but also thought, oh that’s sort of cool. LOL
I don’t know why people act like she’s clueless or not capable of standing up for herself.
Those stories she tells above aren’t new, she first shared them when she was just starting out. She’s been talking about how young actresses are treated for a long time now.
When that barrage of celebrities nude photos leaked, she was the first one affected to call it what it was, a sex crime. She spoke about feeling violated. She really changed the way people talk about nude photo leaks by not just brushing it off and trying to move past it as quickly as possible.
She also talked at length about equal pay, a conversation many more established actresses didn’t want to get anywhere near, a conversation that could damage her career.
Yes, DOR is a massive asshole, but even on her first film with him, she wasn’t afraid to have drawn out fights with him over her character. Not many young actresses OR actors would do that, but she didn’t hesitate to speak her mind despite his reputation. With Aronofsky, yes he asked her to keep going after she hurt herself, but she told him to f$&@ off and didn’t film the scene until she decided she was ready. She’s worked with some difficult directors (half the directors in Hollywood are difficult directors), but she knows her power and she uses it.
On another (lighter) note – WTF is going on with Margot’s shoes? Err couldn’t she find a pair that matched?!
It looks like a similar shoe to what Nicole Kidman wore at the Emmys, so the other shoe’s bedazzlement is on the ankle, not the toe strap.
Margot looks amazing as does JLaw. That story JLaw told is horrifying and I wonder if she is able to tolerate Darren’s awfulness towards his actors because it pales in comparison to other people in the industry. I keep seeing people defending Darren, but to keep filming someone after they injured themselves badly is emotionally abusive even if the injured person was okay with trucking on.
Lawrence has been the target of plenty of misogyny over the years, with the photo leak and now all of these revelations about her early years. She’s been consistently strong on feminist issues – maybe the most vocal big star, certainly within her age group – and it’s great to see her speaking now about how regular all this abuse can be in Hollywood.
Incidentally, I don’t get the idea that some people have that she’s been currently victimised in her relationship with Aronofsky. There’s zero evidence of that: I think they’re just projecting. Sure, he’s an intense director who believes in his actors going deep in their roles. Does that make him an ‘abuser’? Only if you think that 100 years of method/deep role acting is all nonsense, and you deny the possibility that ambitious and talented actors like J-Law might want to go down that route.
I agree on this. She’s not not some withering flower, she holds her own. I saw a press conference during mother! where she was giving an answer and Aronofsky started talking over her, she turned to him and said something like “Hello, I’m talking”, he shut immediately up and she said what she had to say, turned to him again “Now you can talk”. And she was not joking.
@Cassie231
Even if she wanted to keep working after she injured herself, a reasonable partner would say “no, you are hurt…let’s get you to a hospital.” Perhaps I went too far in calling Darren emotionally abusive, but her certainly seems like a controlling, unhealthy partner (especially when you factor in his age) and I do think JLaw deserves so much better.
She’s dealt with some horrible misogyny and I truly feel for her and all the other actresses in Hollywood.
You do not have to be a withering flower to be abused. Good lord. Having someone push you to the point of a medical emergency is not being genius or cavalier. A good boss would’ve stopped her…I’m not even bringing the boyfriend part into it. All types of women are abused. Saying that strong women cannot be abuse victims is another way to shame them. People consider me headstrong and willful and yes I’ve been harassed.
yes, it’s dangerous to imply strong women can’t be abuse victims, because it lands the blame on the blame on on the person who’s being abused. either you’re strong so ofc it didn’t happen to you, or you’re not strong enough and that’s why it happened to you.
Great points AN and Ell. And for some abusers, a strong woman isnt off limits, she’s a challenge. So much more satisfying to break down.
Abuse is like a river, slowly wearing down even the greatest of mountains.
@detritus -my former boss told me that, about the challenge thing. We can’t win is wha it feels like. Say nothing, abuse escalates, speak up, get abused….
Twisted men like to break down strong women, and I think DA is a misogynist wrapped up in a package of auteur and Artiste! Men like him who were rejected by pretty girls and resent it like to get revenge. His films are an exercise in it.
No one is immune from getting into an abusive relationship. From what I have seen strong women are at times slower to recognize it because they don’t believe it can happen to them.
I’ve been on sets where actors are willing and want to go to great lengths to capture the scene. I think a lot of people would be surprised how dedicated some actors can be. I’ve seen actors beg other actors to really hit them in fight scene take after take because they wanted it to be real. It really is an awe inspiring thing to see when someone goes that deep into character. I’m not saying actors must do that, just that some insist on going there. I have also seen actors who didn’t want to go there and directors try to force them to, that gets really ugly fast.
Because these threads are infuriating to read and in light of the “me, too” campaign, I’m just going to leave this right here:
I see you, I believe you, and: disclosure is not required; survivors do not owe you their stories; harassment and assault are not the same thing; it’s never ok to disclose or allude to another persons experience with sexual violence.
Thank you Kitten.
Thank you. I worry in our rush to uncover, and to show complicity, we are at risk of revictimizing. You don’t owe anyone your story. You don’t owe anyone names.
And remember, if it is not your story and you do not have permission to share – don’t.
Well said, detritus.
Thanks Kitten.
Well said, Kitten. Thank you for being the voice of compassion and reason.
Very well said.
So many psychiatrists here.
There is actually at least one psychiatrist and a couple of therapists…
@paranormalgirl you are not wrong 😉
LOL I hope you had a relaxing weekend.
oh yes…. 90’s. a few short showers. Perfect weekend with friends and family on the cay!
Do you guys remember when her nude photographs leaked and people were blaming HER? YES, she’s been a victim and shame on all of you for desperately trying to bring her down.
She is probably talking about Winter’s Bone. The character was meant to be starving.
From what I remember, her character was in big bulky coats for the majority of the film.
Whatever the case, there was zero reason for what she was put through, other than to humiliate and control her.
I suffered a full assault (dont get triggerd or hung up on my wording) in college…and I would never speak about it and have tried to block it out. I refuse to feel or be labelled as a victim and have just come to grips with the term survivor….that my right and yea.
@ash I get what you are saying. Sharing something so vulnerable, you never know how the other person is going to react.
You have to pick and choose very carefully who you are going to process these emotions with to prevent yourself from further abuse/ humiliation.
@KLO
Thanks for that… I went thru months of blaming myself. Then I realized i am not defined by this, i am bigger than this. But it has instilled my fear of rape, I fear rape more than death.
the biggest humiliation is someone being like really tho, as if i could make this crap up….. or over talking you like yea you dont have any feeling or didnt just reveal a life changing awful experience.
I hope this can become a larger dialogue and people like JLaw take it there. I know it’s not surprising, but I can’t get over how often this happens in all professions to all women. I was a mousy teenager with a min wage job and my boss butt grabbed, had private meetings with my peers, etc. In high school theater, we were lined up all together in our underwear while our teacher yelled out our measurements. There was pressure to fit the costumes. Not to mention the leering boys every time you changed backstage. I had a normal pleb existence and I’m about as average looking as can be and these things have all happened countless times throughout my life. Butt grabbing, sexist remarks, abusive treatment by bosses or partners, etc.
She probably has to have a “high tolerance” to be where she is today (that’s not a slam against her to want to continue her career). The system is set up strangely. I also think she was quite young when some of these things happened. If she was only 15 when this happened, I wouldn’t think she’d have the same power as an older woman to be more vocal.
Well, I live in Jennifer’s hometown and was a school based therapist at her middle school when she was there. I think the last “real” year of normal school she attended was 6th grade- then she was gone a LOT on auditions etc. I think she was gone totally by her 8th grade years to homeschooling.
Her family is well-to-do…this is not a case of a hard scrabble life (like Britney Spears) where the family needed money and Jennifer being famous was all they had. It breaks my heart that many, MANY parents of underage actors just seem to throw these young people to the wolves. The Dina Lohans and Lynn Spears of the world are complicit in their kids’ abuse…of all things that make me sick, the fact that the people who should protect you would rather make money off of you, breaks my heart.
And I don’t believe for one second that these parents are in the dark. Everyone with a pulse knows Hollywood victimizes these young people. I’m sure the fact that their parents rarely teach them appropriate boundaries is one of the reasons this happens continually. Instead, the motto seems to be “do whatever you have to do”. It’s just tragic.
And these women are the “lucky” ones who became successful in their teens and 20s and are now multi-millionaires. Imagine how 99% of other child stars and those struggling to survive just to get a gig end up. It’s no wonder that so many turn to suicide, drugs, alcoholism, etc. And I agree that these parents know the bargain and they willingly sign off to that, knowing that their children are exploited in order to make a buck. There are children who want to be stars and persuade their parents to move to LA, get an agent, etc. but it is their parents’ job to not let it get out of control. Jake Gyllenhaal has said that his parents allowed him to take certain roles as a child, but forbade him to be in the Mighty Ducks because it would have pulled him out of school. He had a few roles in movies before going to Columbia, when at that point he made the decision to pursue an acting career full-time. I really think that is the way to go. Sure, your children might miss out on a coveted role in a movie, but their education and well-being are priceless. Kudos to parents who are able to turn down all of that cash to ensure their children’s safety, even if it means ending their acting career.
+1
Jake Gyllenhal has parents who work in the Hollywood industry. I think they knew all about the pedophilia and abuse that goes on with child actors. Thats why they forbade him.
Heck, Elijah Wood tried to talk about it last year and he was forced to give an apology within 24hrs after talking about it!
Most but not all of the parents are negligent. If you watch Open Secret, the documentary on childhood predayion in Hollywood you’ll see examples of parents who were naive, groomed to trust the system etc because they were unaware of the horrors. I do think though that parents today are probably more aware.
I heard her parents had to re-mortgage their house and were nearing divorce because of her acting career. Is that true?
Anyone can be a victim! My husband was constantly harassed at his workplace by older women and gay men. Making comments to his face about how f**kable he is and about his face and body. I mean constant vulgar things being said to his face about what they wanted to do with his body. Sadly, this was suppose to be a compliment in their eyes. He was always annoyed and wished it would stop. He now works somewhere else. Not because of this but he has enjoyed not having to deal with it as much!
Lots of interesting hot takes on JLaw’s life from people who don’t know her. There’s regular gossipy speculation and then there’s making accusations that someone’s partner is abusing them and that she is in denial about her own life experiences.
I sometimes wonder if the infamous “fappening” (when some hackers released a bunch of female celebrities’ private pictures) was deliberate. I wouldn’t be surprised if it was played out to control and keep female entertainers in fear and in check.
I really think Rose McGowan is a hero. Her willingness to straightforwardly call it out as it is has given so much strength to so many women to share their own experiences, and also give a feeling of ‘you’re not alone’ to those that are still not ready/ or simply don’t want to share.
She also talked about how the first person to be nice to her was Charlize Theron. She said Charlize was really nice to her and as she was a nobody and Charlize was a big established star, this speaks well of Charlize. Another strong woman who has been vilified for not being safe and taking crap.
I am surprised that nobody commented on the fact that she said, a female producer made her do this horrible line up … a woman did that to her. This is disgusting and shows that young women and girls are being treted like pieces of flesh and have to endure being not just bodyshamed and driven into eating disorders, but also sexually humilated and assaulted. And I do not think, that victims of any sort of ongoing abuse – you know the women who end up in one abusive relationship after the other – should be victimblamed for doing so. The more often such things happen the less likely you’ll get out. It makes me feel sorry for her that she seems to be drawn to someone who has not exactly the reputation of being nice.