SPOILERS for last night’s episode of Game of Thrones.
Episode 8.2 was called “Knight of the Seven Kingdoms” for good reason, but there were a million great lines which could have been the episode name, like The Things We Do For Love, or Is The Big Woman Still Here? Game of Thrones is well known for being a show about “t-ts and dragons,” but obviously fans of the show know it’s about a lot more than that: honor, trauma, power, family, survival, grief, feminism, misogyny, torture, ethics, all with loads of t-ts, dragons, epic battle scenes and violence. But the writers decided to give us an episode with little special effects – it was an episode of quiet intimacy ahead of the battle against the undead. Once again, these are just my highlights in no particular order:
The Trial of Jaime Lannister. It wasn’t really a trial – that’s how the show opened, with Jaime standing before Jon Snow, Daenerys, Sansa Stark and Bran (who has some kind of special high perch in the great hall?). Dany is all “you killed my dad” and what went unsaid was amazing – it felt like everybody was biting their tongue, like yo, your dad was CRAY and the fact that Jaime killed him is the only thing we like about him. Tyrion tried to speak up for Jaime and it went over like a lead balloon. Then Brienne stood up for him and that moved Sansa. Jon was basically like “meh, we need the men” and Dany would have looked like an a–hole if she hadn’t gone along. And Jaime was like “oh by the way Cersei’s not sending sh-t and she’s bought a big army too.”
Jorah, Ser Friendzone. Jorah tells Dany that Tyrion is a good Hand to the Queen and she’s like “IS HE THO?” and I kind of agree with her. Tyrion has made some huge mistakes. Jorah also convinces Dany to just talk it out with Sansa.
The Lady of Winterfell. Sansa’s militaristic outfit this episode was THE BEST. She was sitting there with Ser whatshisface from the Vale, strategizing, when Dany came in and asked to speak to her. Dany was like seriously, what’s your problem? It’s actually sort of infrequent for Sansa to be asked a direct question about why she’s acting like such a snot, so Sansa and Dany generally worked it out, but Sansa was still like “The North must be independent even if you are Queen.” Then they get interrupted.
Theon arrives. Again, by the eighth season, I don’t mind the Greyjoys or their storylines. Theon came to “fight for Winterfell” and Sansa was moved to tears. Two survivors of torture and horrific abuse by the same man. And they spent the last part of the episode eating soup together.
Tormund & the Night’s Watch arrive. They must have booked it on those horses to outrun the army of the undead. Jon Snow went to hug Edd when Tormund basically tackled Jon. I was already laughing so hard at that, and then Tormund said “Is the Big Woman still here?” Like, they could have talked about the army or the Night King or what they’d seen with the Night King’s wall art, but no. Tormund only wanted to see Brienne.
Arya & the Hound. I felt like Arya & the Hound had a lot more to say to each other but then Beric Dondarrion and his hot AF voice came over and she was like NAH. But I loved that the Hound looked at her and asked her if Beric was ever on her list. She must have taken him off her list when she saw that Gendry had lived.
The Three-Eyed Raven Remembers. Like, Bran knows what the f–k is going to happen so you would think he would be like “heads up, I’m going to need someone other than Theon protecting me, guys.” I mean, really? And Bran was trying to explain his 3ER status to the group and Sam interrupted him to Samsplain the 3ER’s whole deal. Like, Bran could have done that himself. But at least we got it confirmed: the Night King is targeting Bran. And Bran is going to need more than Theon protecting him. But I like that Bran was like “use me as bait.”
Arya & Gendry. I mean… it was HOT. Arya was in the mood when she watched Sweaty Gendry doing his iron/dragonstone work. Gendry finally made her double-sided dragonglass stick/weapon and she flirted with him – and found out that he’s a Baratheon – and she jumped his bones. I’m glad that Arya and Gendry both got some. Finally, a Stark-Baratheon baby??
Jorah Mormont & Lyanna Mormont. Finally, the cousins come face to face and it’s almost like they were aware of each other the entire time. Jorah is trying to convince Lyanna to stay safe and in the crypt during the battle and Lyanna is like “bitch I’ve been a warrior this whole time and I’m going to fight with my men, same as you.” Lyanna = a leader.
Knight of the Seven Kingdoms. It started out with Jaime and Tyrion by the fire, then the others came in to sit for a spell: Ser Davos, Pod, Brienne, and of course Tormund. They sat by the fire and Tormund tried to flirt with Brienne (amazing) and Jaime was trying to get her attention too and it was just the best. Finally, Jaime convinces her that all she needs to do to become a knight is be knighted by another knight. So that’s what Ser Jaime does. “Kneel,” he told her, in what was the hottest moment of the entire show. And Brienne’s happiness… Tormund clapping for her… I’m in tears just thinking about it. And then Pod sings a lovely song, because Pod can do everything.
Jon Snow picked the wrong moment. After avoiding Dany for the entire episode, Jon Snow is spending his last pre-battle moments in the crypt, looking at the statue of Lyanna Stark, his mother. Dany comes in and she’s like “I can’t believe my brother raped your sister,” and Jon’s like… yeah, he didn’t. They were in love. They got married. I’m their son. Dany FREAKS. Like, she looked like she instantly shut down. She doesn’t even want to believe what he’s saying. And yeah, now the battle is about to start.
Yeah, and I didn’t even get to Ser Davos and the brave little girl (sob) or Jaime telling Brienne he wanted to fight by her side or how the crypt probably isn’t the best place for all the women or how Sam is really not the fighter he thinks he is. Also: Northerners are racist to Missandei and Grey Worm and he’s like “we’re gonna bounce from this racist AF place after the war.” Here’s the preview of the third episode, they’re all gonna DIE.
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Photos courtesy of Game of Thrones/HBO.
It was so obvious Jon would talk to Dany at the worst moment. But she should know something was up since he can ride a dragon.
Jon really irked me with that. Boy, hush until after the battle
I feel like he’s regressed a bit as a character
I wonder if Danny will abandon him if the battle doesn’t fully resolve after the next episode
Jon ALWAYS has shit timing. He is so incredibly like Ned in that. He just forges ahead with the truth with no regard for proper timing, or even self-preservation.
I’m still young enough to remember when Ned delivered some pretty devastating news to a blonde woman and how that turned out for him…
Bwahahahahaha. Best comment of the morning.
RIGHT???
He really does know nothing!! Ugh, worst timing ever! In the eve of battle when she can still take off with her armies! Like, really? Now you want to tell her? Is this really the moment?! I kept screaming at my screen for him to stop and shut his mouth🤦🏻♀️
He had to at the very least explain why he kept running away from her on episode. It was getting awkward! Dany might be down with incest but it’s obviously not something Jon’s going to be into. He kept trying to avoid being alone with her and he finally had to tell her why IMO.
In describing what happened between Rhaegar and Lyanna, it seemed as though Jon had spoken to Bran and gotten more info/details. Jon described how Lyanna died. Perhaps Bran encouraged Jon to tell Dany? Bran was rather insistent to Sam that “now is the time to tell Jon the truth.”
Eh, he had to tell her, cause he’s probably going to die. Besides, it’s not the easiest news to carry alone. If he doesn’t die in the battle, she’ll probably kill him. Dany is all about the power now, no matter how much she tries to think of herself as a ‘liberator.’
Agreed, he had to tell her to see her reaction. As Sam asked when he told him: “Would she sacrifice herself for her people?” And he got the answer when the 1st thing that came out of her mouth was her throne… He had to know before the battle begins just in case they both survive. He’ll need to protect others too because she’ll see them as threats
That’s what I told my husband. Her reaction tells him everything he needs to know about her. And her feelings for him. He’s supposedly in love with him (although I’m not buying it with the ZERO chemistry between them), but it’s pretty clear, she doesn’t really return the feeling, when her very first reaction is about her throne. My husband was more caught up that she wasn’t horrified that she’s his aunt. I had to explain, again, that Targs don’t care about that.
They all believe they are about to die. He had to tell her. There literally is no better time as far as they can see. Also he wanted to clarify to her that her noble and honorable brother/his father was NOT a rapist. He doesn’t care about the throne anyway. He’s always made it clear he’s never wanted the accolades and titles. All he cares about is saving humanity.
What moment would truly be good to tell Dany? She would be pissed no matter when he told her.
exactly. I don’t know why people think she should immediately go “oh yeah? sure, you can have the throne then! I wuv you so much!”
Dany’s been in love with Jon for a few weeks. She’s worked toward the Iron Throne her ENTIRE LIFE. She’s literally got a list of things she’s overcome and suffered with that aim in mind. Obviously she needs a minute.
I did think that *right* before the battle, when they had an ETA on the NIght King’s arrival, was pretty poor timing. Literally any time beforehand to give her that necessary minute (or wait til after, and if one of you dies, it’s not necessary). She’ll be majorly distracted during the battle now, and a commander should know better.
It’s a male Stark trait- saying/doing stuff at the wrong moment.
The dragons knew that it was wrong. They were agitated in the last episode. They were like, “Eeeew. Mooommmmm. Thass ur nephew.”
Brienne acted the shit out of that episode.
I told my husband right after her knighting that it didn’t even matter what happened for the rest of the episode. That scene was the best part of the episode.
The scene where Jamie said he’d like to fight under her command was also especially touching. And also, when she stands up for Jamie, and Sansa’s acceptance of Brienne’s opinion as gospel.
I hate all the fake romance writers are contriving to satisfy shippers. For me, the best relationships on the show are those with no sexual undertones. I feel like Jamie and Brienne have a deep, abiding bond. She probably also has romantic feelings for him, but there relationship isn’t based on that. She thinks he can be a better man, and he wants to be because she believes in him. Same thing with Theon and Sansa. Their scenes together last night were INTENSE. And there was nothing sexual about it. It was just the bond forged between them, something no one else will ever understand. And oh god, Theon saying he came to fight for her, and Dany’s face when she realizes the depth of loyalty and love the Starks inspire… it was amazing.
Agreed. That episode was 5 minutes of plot spread out across an hour of gratuitous fanfic.
I completely agree.
When Jaime explained to Dany why he was there he quoted Brienne and stared at her:
“It is not about loyalty. It is about survival”.
Their relationship is deep, but it is non-sexual.
Yaaasss. Other than Jorah right now, the only people really there for Dany out of pure respect and love is Jorah. Even Missandei and Grey Worm are making plans to leave if they survive. The people fighting for the Starks are there because they believe in them. Dany is demanding respect and loyalty. You have Tormund and Davos, Ser Royce of the Vale, Varys has always been about the Realm and no one particular ruler, Theon, Brienne and Jaime is there for the living, not necessarily for Dany. Since she listens to Jorah and almost repeated verbatim when ut came to Tyrion, he should really sit her down (if he survives) and tell her to chill because she’s coming off ruthless. I’m still holding on to faith that the Jon Aegon info will appeal to her better senses and she will realize that together they could appease the North and rule together. Also, does she not have a clue about dragon riders???
Jamie is in love with Brienne. He absolutely respects her, wants to honor her but the boy is in love with her as well. It is is hugely why he could walk away from Cersi without looking back and purposely go to be under the authority of Brienne. Brienne not only lead to his change but it woke him up to what it means to be a good person with honor.
i Loved the moments between Theon and Sansa. Dany thought he came back for her, but in reality, it was for the Starks/Sansa. That should serve as proof that loyalty to the Starks runs deep and strong. I think their connection is based more on surviving heinous abuse together than romantic. But if somehow Theon lives and it does lead to romance, I actually don’t hate it. They were both completely traumatized, so I doubt either are interested in sex anytime soon/ever again.
@AGirlAndHerDog:
“I hate all the fake romance writers are contriving to satisfy shippers. For me, the best relationships on the show are those with no sexual undertones.”
AND
@10KTurtle:
“That episode was 5 minutes of plot spread out across an hour of gratuitous fanfic.”
Yeah, I agree with both of you. That was a let down for me. Cannot stand fanfiction and show-shippers.
We shared the same reactions – the depth of each of those relationships was SO touching !! ( But I’d still love it if either Torvald OR Jaime and Brienne ever catch fire!)
Life is all about your relationships with others though, friends, lovers, leaders, teachers, siblings, children, parents, etc. They completely abandoned their usual writing tone and I was a little irritated about it at first, but the more I thought about it I understood and appreciated it. We got a little bit of closure for some of our favorite characters who will likely be dead soon. I laughed and cried throughout the entire episode, and of course cringed when I saw Arya mounting Gendry. I really thought they’d never go that route with her, but she is a young woman with desire for pleasure even after everything she’s been through, and she got to do it on her terms when she was ready, which we rarely saw with the other women.
I also have no doubt the writers did this on purpose, they filled our hearts with joy and love just to rip it all to shreds next week.
I agree with this so much! while I think the Arya/Gendry scene was tastefully done in its own “Arya way” it really didnt need to happen, I know people have been shipping them since the beginning but I honestly didnt see it coming until it actually happened, like ok, I guess fans were right. I love Brienne, I loved her in this episode, I love how Tormund just wants her so bad, how he cheered for her made my night, but honestly I dont expect her to get together with neither my Giantsbane or Jamie and honestly, I think I would be dissapointed if it turns out that way. now people are saying the same thing for Sansa and Theon, nope, it was a very heart warming moment, the hug and the later scene sharing food before the battle but NOTHING needs to happen between the two. they grew up as siblings, cant they just be close friends and leave it at that? this is game of thrones, they give us these nice moments to later rip our hearts apart. thats the only given in this show. I dont know where all these romantic pairings are coming from…
They should just go ahead and engrave Gwendolyn Christie’s name on all of the awards. She was amazing in that scene.
+1
Absolutely! I said the same thing. That knighting scene was everything.
Is The Big Woman Still Here? Hey Red, that the Big Knight to you! I had tears over Brienne’s happiness. Next week winter will finally be here, and the battle begins. I’m already dreading it and seeing who survives.
Tormund: I’m no king but if I were…
Jaime: hold my beer!…
But really, I cried when she was knighted… also, got scared, because it’s effin’ GOT. Are you giving me this moment for her to fall next episode and for my heart to break?! Are you?! I’m terrified for the next episode. And cannot wait for it as well. I feel I need to mentally prepare this whole week for it.
Also… F*CK TRADITION!!❤️
Oh she’s so dead. Her arc is done. Jaime might be safe for two more episodes if we really stretch. His arc isn’t fully complete yet.
Yes, she is definitely going to die. If she comes back as a wight I am going to be so pissed. She deserves honor in death.
I’m dreading it as well, seriously considered not watching anymore so everyone I know and love is still alive in my mind, lol. That episode felt like one long last goodbye for our favorite characters. Next week is going to be rough.
Even down to Jamie saying he came to Winterfell so he could ride by her work underneath her without insulting her. It is so obvious he is truly i love with her.
It was a good episode but kind of a let down to have another episode with so much set up in it and not a lot of action. Still, I feel there was some closure between characters which is important.
I got what Dany was saying about Tyrion, but I also liked how everyone else was like, “yeah he’s made mistakes, he’s still really smart.” Trusting Cersei was a mistake but like Sansa pointed out, Dany trusted her too.
Jon totally picked the wrong moment, but I’m glad it’s out there at least. I got the feeling though that killing sam and Bran is now an option for Dany. I did also like how Dany was telling Sansa earlier that her whole life was about the iron throne, and she was putting that aside to help Jon. Now making that choice – to help Jon – seems like it may lead to her losing the throne.
This weeks episode still makes me think she’s going to betray everyone and that she will never give up the throne. I also think she will use his parentage against him with the Starks and the people of the north – use it to turn them against him. I still think the stage is being set for a Jon and Dany fight over the throne. And yeah I can totally see her trying to kill Sam and Bran to hide the truth. She is all about the throne, that is all she cares about.
As for Mis and Greyworm – i can see them surviving and going back home with the rest of the unsullied to live as free people.
Yay for Ayra and Gendry! And Jamie doesn’t deserve Brienne.
I agree with the both of you. Dany is all about the Iron throne.
Both scenes (with Sansa and with Jon) shows she wants the Iron throne and the 7 kingdoms.
Oh and No mention of the dragons. I am concerned they are weak…
Yeah, she wants all 7 kingdoms. I think actually Sansa and Jon gave her an out – install Jon as king of the north if he publicly relinquishes his claim to the iron throne, and let the north do its own thing and be an ally of Westeros but no longer part of it. Dany gets the iron throne, the north gets independence. But that’s not going to be what happens.
I don’t know why everyone is surprised, of course Dany is all about the iron throne. It is the only thing she aimed for since she’s been sold to the “taller” one. Her sense of ambition and identity was dependent on it. Now learning that it is not rightfully hers is of course painful. Give a girl a moment to recollect herself and her goals in life…
YES. They’ve also totally set this up with Tyrion insisting to everyone that Dany is “different” but… they’re showing that Tyrion has horrible judgment (all of a sudden? or did he always have bad judgment but we were distracted by his wit?).
So IF Dany comes out with a move that’s typically Targaryen, it’s going to be consistent with Tyrion’s bad judgment…
I’m not 100% sure this is the direction they’re going. We have, after all, spent 7 seasons seeing Dany’s basic goodness (and a lot of her own bad calls) so maybe she goes to the brink of Full Targaryen and someone (Jorah? Sansa?) pulls her back.
@wasabi, give a girl a moment…that’s fkng hilarious! Love it!
Her whole life has not been about taking the throne. Her brother’s whole life was about taking the throne. It wasn’t until the dragons hatched that she decided to go for it.
I think they are setting up that conflict, but I think Dany is hopefully smart enough to realize that nothing good will come out of her betraying Jon. She’ll lose the North and most of her advisors. They know that whoever Jon is, he is not a bad guy and he would be an asset.
@Miss M- there were no dragons because they put Ghost in a scene.
Jon may not want the throne. Must he take it? In a gender role evolving Westeros, where a woman just got knighted and made a Ser (I LOVED that they kept the Ser title for a female knight—talk about First of Her Name!) perhaps Jon can quietly choose to step aside, and let his Aunt ascend? Only a few people know about Jon’s rightful ruler claim, just as only Bran and Jaime know about another little secret, involving a long fall from a high tower. I don’t think Dany going mad-king is the only option for how her Iron Throne quest plays out. And even though her first thought upon hearing the news was for the throne, she is bound to have second thoughts, and third thoughts, etc. Supposedly she is in love with Jon (although it didn’t show in Episode 2—that could just be due to poor acting/chemistry). We shall see…
I don’t think Jon wants the iron throne, so I don’t think he’s a threat to Dany directly. But I can see if the secret gets out that other people may prefer him to Dany – he’s a Stark, he’s from westeros, etc. and now four people know about this secret, so I think more will hear about it.
Gilly knows part of it. She knows Rhaegar got an annulment. She had that scroll before Sam did.
Jon would make a better King than Dany because he doesn’t want the throne. Dany’s been wanting the throne all her life, but she’s a crappy ruler (Mereen) and can’t give a decent answer to the question of “So, you get the throne and then what?”. She can’t bare a child yet doesn’t want to hear about potential heirs, she doesn’t seem to think about the fact that other people have been living in Westeros all this time and that they might have desires and aspirations different than hers and all this will clash at some point. Part of it is due to the fact that she’s been alone practically all her life, but she needs to learn to share (or Varys will do what Varys does). Jon being both a Stark and a Targ means that the North would recognize him as King of everything without much problems.
@arpeggi This sort of logic makes no sense. Someone who does not want to be leader would make a good leader… because he does not want to lead. It punishes ambitious people who want to do more and try to do better. this make no sense at all and has proven to be false. He does not like to accept responsibility. It is always foisted upon him because he is a male and toxic masculinity is rampant throughout the land.
Jon is a bad leader because he has no vision for the future and lacks basic communication skills. He got shanked by his own men because he refused to listen to their concerns or even explain himself. He doesn’t deserve to be leader because he does not want to be a leader. He does not mind the status quo as long as he is not on the losing end of it. He is complacent just like Ned was. Y’all have even admitted as such, but for some reason does view it in a negative light. I have never seen a character fail upward like Jon has. Actually, Tyrion is just as bad as Jon.
Trust though, if Lyanna or Sansa actually got to control the North, many in the audience would be picking apart those two as much as Dany. It seems like some only like women when they are in subservient roles or victims.
Jon doesn’t have to take it and there is Targaryen precedent for that: Maester Aemon gave up the Iron Throne to join the Night’s Watch. We have already seen Jon as a leader. He wouldn’t listen to the objections of the Night’s Watch and they killed him. He has been having the same communication problems in the North and Sansa has fixed it for him every time. He has the right ideas for the right reasons but he has no skill in communicating what those reasons are or hearing objections that need to be resolved.
Dany was wrong though, when she said Jon’s brother and his best friend were the only people who knew the truth about his parentage. Howland Reed knows. And I think that will be significant.
Where the hell is Howland, though? Surely he knows what’s going on, has he just decided to stay out of it?
Everyone pulled into Winterfell, so I expected the Reeds to show up. But since they are farther south, maybe the survivors of the battle for Winterfell will retreat south and meet up with the Reeds. The Reeds have always been incredibly loyal to House Stark, as evidenced by Meera and Jojen risking their lives for Bran and Rickon, so I cannot imagine them abandoning the Starks now. Plus Meera knows what’s coming. I could see them holding down the fort, providing a place for people to retreat to. Although it would be hard to find since their castle moves.
Howland AND Meera….who actually knows how big this threat is and knows what Bran can do. I get why she was over it and wanted to go home, but she’s a northerner. Where are the Reeds?
Didn’t Meera say she was returning to her father because he was dying? Maybe that was the end of their story arc?
I suspect that Meera knows by now too.
I forgot to say: GHOST SIGHTING. Ghost was there, hanging out.
This makes me happy AND sad. I don’t want any more of the dire wolves to die lol. I’m concerned that Arya’s will come back with a little wolf army. Which is why I am SO thankful for your recaps so I don’t have to watch haha.
Ghost on the Wall with Edd, Sam, and jon. Just like old times.
Yessssss…..I was beginning to think I was the only one who noticed Ghost. I can’t believe that’s ALL we got. Wtf? No happy Ghost reunion?????
Exactly. Finally GHOST. But just standing in the background. It was really just like the minimum effort to shot his face and satisfy viewers that he’s still alive.
And I’m also terrified he’s going to die. My he’ll get to live to signify Jon’s dual nature was both a Stark and a Targ.
My husband shouted, GHOST. Yeah, it was pretty awesome. On another note, I hated Arya’s sex scene. Was not needed and was wasting time when there is so little time left. Maisie Williams is pleased with herself today, maybe she felt she needed to keep up with the other ladies on the show, but didn’t succeed. If I were Bran, I wouldn’t have forgiven Jaime. He changed, the AH threw him to his death, or that was the plan. Revenge is sweet.
There were no dragons. When there are no dragons we get a budget for Ghost.
They just slipped him in there all sly like he wasn’t MIA the entire time, lol. I SEE YOU, Benioff and Weiss! I see you.
I definitely had tears a couple of times watching it. They’ve been through so much together, and grown so much when apart. You know that most of these conversations couldn’t happen after the battle as most won’t survive. 😢
“You know that most of these conversations couldn’t happen after the battle as most won’t survive. 😢”
This, they had to cram ALL the heartfelt convos into that episode, because many will die next week in battle and then they won’t have the chance.
i love Sansa so much, my favourite character with Cersei. She’s grown up so much, honestly she’s better fitted to be Queen than many others in that castle.
Same. I love her so much. She is the only leader I recognize.
You actually like Cersei!! I loathe her. How is she still alive?
Lena Heady is brilliant as Cersei, which makes me love Cersei.
Dany didn’t even get around to caring that Jon is her nephew, she went straight to thinking about the throne. But yeah, Jon is still a giant dummy. I didn’t read the Sansa/Dany moment the same way, Sansa asking about the North seemed like a reminder that at the end of the day Dany is out for her own ends no matter what she’s got going with Jon. Sansa is looking out for the North like she always does, she’s not being a snot she’s just the smartest of the Starks.
Everything about Brienne & Jaime, and Gendry and Arya was perfect and made me so happy.
I agree, Dany wants the iron throne, but Sansa wants to protect her people. Her people swore they would never kneel again and she is determined to make sure they don’t have to. It’s irritating because Dany would feel exactly the same way in Sansa’s position. Dany is going against everything that she once believed. She literally had the people of Meereen choose their own leaders when she left. A form of Democracy is apparently a good idea in Meereen, but Westeros must kneel to her. The cognitive dissonance is crazy.
Yeah, it’s remarkable how Dany went from someone I was rooting for in the early seasons to someone who I can’t stand at this point. She comes off as really petulant in her insistence that everyone be obsequious toward her, isn’t it enough that folks are fighting for you without them having to worship the ground you walk on. Honestly, I’d love it if she ended up getting killed by Lyanna Mormont, that little badass stands up for the North as much as Sansa does. It’s so obvious that she’s going to end up betraying Jon, it’s just a matter of who ends up taking her out.
Also, what i loved about this was Dany’s realisation that Sansa’s people love her. She is working in their interest and they respond. Dany will never have this in the north. I think it stung her.
What kind of 53% logic is going on here? Sansa wants power for herself, just like Dany has. To make it seem like Sansa is being so selfless and patriotic is ridiculous. It would not be a bad thing if Sansa wanted influence and power given her past. She was trained under Cersei and LF who are the most selfish characters on the show.
Also, Sansa has not always been thinking of the North. She only wanted to be Queen a few years ago when she thought she was marrying Joffry. She was still only thinking about the Starks when she invited that vile snake LF to help clean up the bolton mess. She also was not thinking of the north when she and Jon were going around last season trying to take blood from stone and make the other northerners fight for them when they had nothing else to give.
Democracy as we know it does not exist in this world. They still live under a feudal system. Dany is still Queen of those cities.
Y’all also keep moving the goal posts. The Starks do not believe in democracy either. The Starks would still be running the North under the same undemocratic system of king/queen and their subjects.
Also, the north is full of racists.
I thought Sansa’s timing was a bad as Jon’s. There is a good chance they will all be dead in 24 hours, so why piss off the person with the dragons before the battle?
It seems like the character arc for “The North” is that they are becoming wildlings in their refusal to be ruled by others.
Being ruled by others has never worked out well for The North in the past and they have absolutely no reason to trust that things would be any different if Dany was queen. It makes total sense for them to advocate for self-rule, so long as they don’t have the wildlings to deal with anymore they don’t stand to gain anything from staying part of the seven kingdoms.
@starryfish.
the Starks and the northerners did just fine with 400 years of Targaryen rule. in fact, the north and the Starks thrived until Aerys went crazy. it wasn’t until the Lannisters took over that they were fighting for their independence.
the have several reasons to trust that they would be fine. She has several good Targaryen grandfather/kings who did good by the realm.
The North was made to kneel and for all intent the Targs let them be and run their own shit because the Northerners had no interest in playing the game .All they were interested in was brooding and The Wall .
You now have all the First Men united for the first time since The Wall went up so 400 years means shit against 8000 years .The rights of the the remnant of the Children (the Crannogmen) and the First Men to rule themselves against the rights of 3 different groups on colonizers to decide
I read that scene differently, too. It felt pretty obvious to me that neither woman was genuine in their desire to set aside their difference and become friends. They were each pretending in order to get what they wanted out of the other. It was total mean girl, fake niceness.
HBO could done another Sesame Street video about respect, with Elmo, Sansa and Dany.
Well, of course she immediately thought about the throne first! She’s been driving a revolution to get it for the past several years, and it may be out of her hands now after she did all the legwork of fighting for it simply by matter of her gender. F*cking a nephew is a non-issue up and down the line. Beyond the fact that Dany is herself the result of a highly incestuous family, a relationship between a nephew and aunt has no real genetic basis for being problematic, and things like cousin marriage is probably common enough in their world. The conflict for Dany here is whether her vision for power has eclipsed her internal need for family and security. She has to decide for herself what she’s really after at this point.
Nicely expressed. I King in the North your comment.
Btw, anyone else binge ing on the Jenny of Oldstone stuff? Be still my simple summer heart.
that little girl with greyscale that looks like shireen was TEW MUCH. i sobbed.
Me too. For a moment there I was hoping magic had brought her back. I just could not stop crying.
Legit cried when Brienne was knighted.
Same. Also teared up a bit when they talked again and he said he was there basically to be with her as sh*t goes down.
Brienne was so crucial for Jaime’s survival. Dany was breathless when Brienne said he protected her when men were trying to rape her. I am glad she said that’s why he lost his hand because that was the beginning of his growth.
I cried like a baby when Lady Brienne became Ser. Pod can sing!!!!
Loved when Bran said: ” the things we do for love”.
Thank Gawd Arya and Gendry got some…
I got a bit teary when Theon said he wanted to fight for Winterfell. You could tell Sansa was emotional, but Dany’s reaction was like recognizing how Sansa is important to the North.
“I wish you good fortune, cousin” – Lady Mormont followed by sam giving his Valeryan sword.
” How do we know there is afterwards?” Dude, cant you just warg?!
I think this episode really tied all the characters stories and the acting was really on point with subtle gestures and expressions. I cannot wait for the third episode.
I agree with everything you wrote. I loved how the characters got introspective, and in a sense, some closure before the end. I’m afraid each new episode is going to be devastating. We will suffer.
Arya has a very strange style of flirting.
I really hope it doesn’t come down to kill the knight king and it’s done. The fact that Jaime said you don’t need a king to make knights-just other knights makes me think it’s not going to be that easy.
Also the fact that every single person was talking about the safety of the crypts makes me think that is 100% the worst spot to be.
If the Night King can awaken the dead and they fight for him, couldn’t he awaken the Stark dead in the crypt?
That’s my thought, too. Which will be ULTRA CREEPY nightmare time.
I saw a commentor mention that somewhere else…the possibility of the Dead Starks rising in the crypt. There was a LOT of emphasis put on the fact that the crypt was being used for safety in this episode…TOO MUCH emphasis. I think either the dead will rise, or there will be another way in. I would be shocked if they stayed safe there.
The little girl with greyscale, Sam and Tyrion all offered to fight….I think they will, from the crypt.
@bythesea: genuine question (i dont remember this): can the Night King awake any dead person or just the ones the wights and white walkers kill?
Miss M – I think it’s any dead person. Otherwise, why the emphasis on burning all the dead in the previous seasons (once they found out about the wights)?
One thing though: most of the deads in the crypt are hundred years old and they’re just a bunch of bones at this point, not even skeletons (Ned Stark bones fit in a box when Cate finally got them, his brother and father are ashes). From what we’ve seen before, the Night King only brought back recent bodies/skeletons that were somewhat whole and severed limbs were kind of harmless; while I’m sure that the deads will be rising, technically, they shouldn’t all be that dangerous (but they will, because who cares about logic?)
I feel like everybody in the crypts will die.
Aren’t there thousands of people in the crypts? Isn’t that where all the people streaming into Winterfell were sent? And how large are the crypts?
I think only anyone who can’t fight will be in the crypts. Not sure how many people that will be since Jon ordered anyone who could fight (regardless of gender) to be trained. So really just the elderly, infirm, and young children. I’d think most in the crypts would be young children.
If the crypt in the show is the same as the books then it is massive. Even bigger than Winterfell itself. There are also many levels and the lowest is collapsed. It leaves room for things like secret entrances and things like that as well. The dead rising isn’t the only possible surprise.
This was one of my favorite episodes ever. It was the perfect reminder why I love these characters so much. Everything was just perfect.
(It also reminded me how little I care to see Jon, and even Dany to a point, on screen.)
Next week, these people are going to die. And I’m not going to be okay. So I’m going to just sit in my little cocoon and re-watch Jaime knighting Brienne ever and over again.
This 100%. Put the Jaime x Brienne & Arya x Gendry stuff on a loop and I’m good. The series can end right here.
haha 🙂
Arya & Gendry (ie, Arya being like, “OK i’ve decided, it’s you & me, boy. take your pants off”) gave me real joy. Arya’s all grown up now 🙂
Tormund was Brienne’s biggest cheerleader at her Knighting ceremony Lol
We finally got a ghost sighting!
OMG we watched Arya lose her virginity and we finally got Gendrya.
I found Dany’s reaction very selfish. This is the man she just claimed she loved, and she couldn’t care less about his feelings about this, but her first reaction was the thought of losing her throne, all while the dead are marching in.
I was so happy to see the Jorah/Lyanna moment as well as Sam gifting him Heartsbane. I have a feeling it will be back in House Tarley’s hands though
The callback to Shireen in that scene with Davos and Gilly was sweet. They even played her music in the background.
After feeling like Tyrion may survive this, he made a comment to Jaimie while they were on the barracks along the lines of maybe if he died he’d end up marching down to KL asa wight and rip off Cersei’s face himself. I hope that wasn’t foreshadowing. I want him to live.
Why is no one asking Bran the right questions?!?!?
Also next week’s episode is said to be one long action sequence from start to finish. So get ready to have your heart in your throat and stomach for a full hour.
Tyrion seems like the only one interesting in what Bran has to say.
And speaking of Bran, he said that no one tried to blast the Night King with dragon fire. But in the Beyond the Wall episode last season, he walked right through it. So I don’t think it will kill him?
Yep. Bran needs to hop back on 3ER search engine and look at that scene more closely.
I thought he walked through something that was on fire from dragon fire, but was not actually blasted with it.
“OMG we watched Arya lose her virginity and we finally got Gendrya.”
The reaction of some of twitter (especially men) is making me cackle with laughter. “But, but she’s like a little sister”. Speaking as someone who is a little sister? Eventually we start having sex. Get over it! 😁 Good lord, seven seasons of rape and this is what sets people off. Ugh.
That Jorah and Lyanna moment was overdue, but also felt calculated. I feel like Jorah is on his way out, and since the show is so crowded right now his redemption will be with his house by sacrificing himself for Lady Lyanna. And it’s going to hurt.
Jaimie is going to live for awhile….something is up there.
@Mia4s, GIRL, I know! The show that burned little Shireen alive and people are losing their minds over an 18-yr old having consensual sex with a good (omg hot) man. She’s so young? This is the Middle Ages. Remember when Sansa was going to marry Joffrey as soon as she got her period?? Arya could’ve been married four years already. Please take that puritanical anachronistic silliness elsewhere and let me enjoy my shirtless Gendry.
Eh. Dany literally went from talking to the man who killed her father to finding out that she’d been fed a lie about the horrors her family wrought upon others her entire life and that all of her efforts to reclaim the throne may be for nothing. Most people would be caught up with their own emotional reaction at that point. It’s what she chooses to do in the next few episodes that will really matter. She has a major choice ahead to make about what she’s willing to yield versus what she truly wants.
I don’t think she’s done either. She’s been loved for 7 seasons and now people don’t know what to make of her after 2 episodes in this season. But that allows her to have a redemption story line by the end too.
Frankly, from a metatextual perspective, the entire argument of the “mad queen” is very gross to me. You don’t set up a rape victim who’s life and choices were stolen from a young age, build her up to be a powerful revolutionary, and then toss away all of the moral complexity of her rise by saying “she’s mad!” That’s lazy storytelling. It strips the characters of their ability to grapple meaningfully with a tough situation to render one of them insensible. I partially blame the writers for it because MY GOD are they misogynistic, but it’s very telling that Dany began to lose favor with people the more powerful her character became.
IMO, she doesn’t need a redemption arc. She hasn’t done anything that requires one textually. Her actions are no worse than anything the men have done over the series. It’s a war. Terrible things happen in war. What her arc is really going to be about is her coming to terms with her vision having to evolve as she encounters a stubborn North and the issue of Jon Snow.
This episode was so bittersweet. It made me remember why I love the characters that I love, and it even had me caring about characters I don’t particularly like (hello, Theon). And next week, a good portion of them will be killed off. I cried good tears during this week’s episode. I’ll be crying sad tears next week. A couple things …
The writers better not have put Ghost in there just to remind us that he exists so he can die next week. That would be seriously wrong.
The acting was next level in this episode. Really superb. Except for Dany. I kept thinking, why is Dany always walking around with cray-cray eyes? Is that the only expression Emilia can muster for whatever situation she faces? Then it hit me—maybe it’s not bad acting. Maybe Dany is supposed to have cray-cray eyes. In which case, sorry Emilia, you did a good job. If Dany is truly going over the edge, then I think Jon will have to be the one to bring her down. Two episodes in, and I’ve changed my mind about Dany’s fate—I don’t think she makes it to the end.
Dany has been showing signs of her father/family’s power crazed madness for the past few seasons and yeah she’s not going to make it to the end. Thinking about it, in her vision we heard the sounds of the dragon’s crying – I now think they were crying over the fact that she is dead and they are not.
If Dany dies then what happens to the unsullied?
The Unsullied are free to go where they want. They’re actually free to leave now. They don’t have to fight for Winterfell.
@ digital unicorn
you have on idea what you are talking about. just because she is ambitious does not mean she is crazy.
if she was power hungry she would have left the north to their own devices and stayed out of it to go after Cersei. she puts her wants aside to help them and others on several occasions.
if she really was that power hungry. she would have had Tyrion killed and just gone to burn down KL to get at Cersei. she does not do this either. The only person acting in an erratic fashion is Cersei.
I am so sick of her. This episode was a grateful reprieve from her whining and I hope we get very little of her next week too. Best case scenario, she dies. Worst case (and most likely) scenario, i have to sit through another four episodes watching her eyebrow act.
@Broodytrudy
Haha watching her eyebrows act.
@aiobhan targaryen: keeping in mind that I haven’t watched the last two episodes (and yes, I’m reading spoilers), I have to say that it’s not Dany’s ambition that makes me concerned about her stability. I have no problem with ambitious women (fictional or real). My favorite characters on Game of Thrones have always been the women. Frankly, I even have a soft spot for Cersei, Queen of Westeros and Ambition.
The thing that concerns me about Dany’s stability/overall ability to rule is her impulsiveness. I get it; other characters are impulsive. Perhaps it’s Dany’s vast resources (DRAGONS) that make the impulse control such an issue. Burning Sam’s family last season was an error in judgement. Maybe it wouldn’t have been two weeks later, but deciding to do it on the field bought her loyalty out of fear from those men, not loyalty out of love. It demonstrated an unwillingness to listen to advisors who know Westeros better than she does. If she had burned them later, I would have had less of a problem with it; it’s the fact that she beat them and immediately expected complete obedience. It was unrealistic, and I think it’s going to come back to bite her. She goes racing after Jon on a dragon, giving the undead another weapon.
I know those are only two examples, but they are big deal examples in my mind. Sansa could rule the north because she’s practical (making sure they stock grain, being willing to ally herself with people she doesn’t like/set aside grudges for the greater good). It’s like she thought back at the beginning of the series; she wanted the people to be loyal to her as queen because they loved her, and I think she’s managing that. Dany’s people will follow her out of fear, but I don’t know if that’s enough to hold Westeros when all is said and done.
It’s possible for me to dislike certain female characters without it being a statement about my feminism, just like it’s possible for me to dislike certain real life women without it being a fear of powerful women.
Stay out of the crypts! At least Sam and Tyrion will be down there so there might be some protection.
Sansa is a queen, a formidable one at that, and even though it is annoying her, Dany sees it. She sees why people follow and love her: her respect , trust and love for Brienne, who swore to give her life for her; her strategies for providing for the safety and welfare of her people; her understanding of her people, their history, and their desire for independence; and the love and willingness of people to fight and die for her like the guy from the Vale, Brienne, and Theon.
GHOST!
ETA And Grey Worm is a goner.
Yes he is. More than half of them at least are goners, but it wouldn’t make sense that mercenaries survive such a fight if they’re doing their job. And if we go back to when the walking dead were decent, anyone who dared to make plans for the future would die by the end of the show; I think that can be applied here too
He’s going to have a death scene in Missandei’s arms when she tells him he’ll make it to the Isle of Nan.
I don’t think Greyworm dies. I read an article in which Kit Harrington said one of his last scenes was with the actors who play Greyworm and Davos. And Kit does make it to Kings Landing because there were on set photos of him filming there.
@IlsaLund: it was the last scene he shot, but scenes aren’t shot in order… Davos and Greyworm are probably goners (though Davos might make it, he managed to always make it through famine, long sieges and power-hungry wanna be kings and priestesses so who knows?!). But Greyworm was kind of raised to die in a fight, it’s what Unsullied do even if he’s a free man now
Absolutely. Soon as he started talking future plans, I was like “Dude is a goner.”
I also think we are in for total devastation next week. So many character arcs were fulfilled this last episode that I feel like they are setting them up to die. Definitely, think Jamie will die and fulfill his wish of dying in the arms of the woman he loves(Brienne). I think Brienne will die as well because her character has come full circle, from being mocked to respected and admired. She has fulfilled her oaths and it would make sense for her to die now.
Theon is a goner as well. Over the last few episodes, he has been redeemed as a Greyjoy and now that he is back fighting for the Starks I think that he will be redeemed there, dying to protect Bran.
Ser Davos is probably not long for this world as well.
Glad the writers gave us this lovely character driven episode before next week’s devastation.
I like to think that what Daario said to her is sinking in – he said she’s not a leader but a conqueror. Dany doesn’t know how to be a Queen or a Leader and in Sansa she see what she is not.
Queen Sansa!!!!!
It’s a shame that she wouldn’t be happy being in a general type role and letting someone like Sansa handle the ruling.
Sansa is CRUSHING it this season and I’m excited to see where it takes her. I’m going to be quite happy when she fully ends up leading the north.
Some wonderful, wonderful acting by Sophie last night.
Sansa is not a Queen. She is a complainer with no original thoughts of her own. Her leadership skills have her undermining her own brother who they have labeled as King of the North. No one is calling for Sansa to do shit. They are putting everything on Jons inept shoulders and she is the maid who makes the house run.
All she is doing is letting a negative situation get worse by not telling the northerners to shut up and stop undermining her brother. She is sowing chaos in order to make herself look better. She is not offering solutions. A real leader would publicly keep up a united front and privately rail against her brother.
This one was probably one of my faves. All the actors brought their A-Game. Theon and Brienne (and her g*ddamn amazing smile) made me cry. Tormund keeps making me LOL. Emilia really freaked me out, she was amazing. And I absolutely LOVED Arya and Gendry’s moment. Perfectly handled and they both looked beautiful. Here you have a young woman who makes a decision about her body and her desire and acts on it, all on her own terms (and with a hot AF guy who’s trustworthy and respects her more than anyone, no less). Bravo, D&D.
Yes, I was happy for Arya! It was tastefully done in only a way Arya can. I’m very happy it was her choice! also, terrified in how they gave us all these amazing scenes between two characters, like Sansa & Theon, Jorah & Sam, Greyworm & Missandei, also Lady Lyanna is a bad ass!!! I’m just super scared for next episode for at least one of each of those, because with all those nice moments I feel they signed their death warrants…
I like tormund but I wish he would stop harassing brienne. She’s not into you, dude, leave it
And I don’t understand why no one EVER says that the kingslayer was justified in killing the mad king, because he was. I don’t care about oaths. He saved countless people from being burned alive
I know there has been some debate about Tormund being a creep, but I think he really does think Brienne is the most beautiful woman in the world and he isn’t going to hide his feelings.
And I love how he said “f**k tradition” about being knighted how happy he looked for her when it finally happened.
Agree. He’s never insulted her and shows her he thinks the world of her. He may be rough around the edges, but he’s never disrespectful to her. He’s seen the beautiy in her from the moment they met. OTOH, when she and Jaime first met and for a while after, he insulted her regularly. And he has said the only woman he’s ever loved is Cersei. He has grown to respect Brienne and have love for her on some level, but I don’t see romantic love from Jaime.
And Tormund doesn’t understand how others don’t see Brienne as the most fantastic woman ever.
The Hound also has tremendous respect and admiration for her.
And I wish Arya would finally thank the Hound. That’s all he wants and he deserves it.
Tormond is not being creepy, he is treating Brienne the way he would treat any other women he respects, his character was shown early on to treat the strong and powerful wilding women with respect and he sees that same strength in Brienne. When he looks at her he see’s an equal – Jamie does NOT deserve her and he knows this and I think she does too.
As for Ayra, I think she will come round to make her peace with the Hound – it seems it was going that way until Beric and his sex on legs voice turned up (combined with the fact that the actor is HOT).
LP I don’t think The Hound does want her thanks. He just wants her to know that he does care for her. He’s that man who was raised in a brutal, affectionless home, who has no idea how to express his feelings. His only value is in his ability to fight. So he fought for her. Protected her. He probably doesn’t recognize it, but he seemed to fall into a kind of surrogate father role, and parents don’t really ask for thanks. It’s kind of a thankless job. I think he’s just proud that he helped shape her into someone who can take care of herself.
Last night when she said “You don’t fight for anyone,” I did say he fought for you seconds before he did. And I think that’s the closest he can get to actually expressing his feelings.
@Digital Unicorn
I have been saying Jaime DOES NOT deserve Brienne. He still went back to Cersei and stood by her even after she blew up the sept and kinda pushed Tommem to suicide. Even after finding out officially that Tyrion did not kill Joffrey but she still wanted him dead. Jamie has always been faithful to Cersei even though she’s slept with cousin Lancel, while Jaime was being held captive and wanted to marry Rhaegar when she was younger and was on board with Robert until he showed how disinterested he was in her.
It took this threat of the dead for Jaime to finally stand up to her and even still I think there is still love for her. IMO he sees Brienne in the sisterly way he SHOULD have seen Cersei in lol.
Jaime was justified in killing the king. The problem is that any goodwill being read into that act is erased by his complicity in his sister’s machinations. Cersei is ambitious and effective, but she is brutal and vicious to an extent that damages everything around her. The whole reason he’s being set up for a redemption plot line is because of his refusal to see the truth about his sister from the start. He had to lose three children and everyone’s trust before it really hit him what he’d lost for his loyalty to her.
I think Brienne just doesn’t know how to handle compliments. She’s been made fun of her entire life for being so big and “manly” and now this guy is worshipping her for it, and she’s not worried about romance at the moment with war upon them. If they survive I bet she’ll warm up to Tormund, I hope so anyway:)
I feel like her reaction may be insecurity and taking it like he’s being sarcastic? Remember the story she told about the ball her father threw her and all the boys pretended to like her and called her “Brienne the Beauty” as a joke and when she found out she was extremely hurt and Renly, bless his heart was the one who comforted her?
I think on some level she may not really believe he’s sincere.
He doesn’t even know her name!!!! It bothers me some as well because he isn’t truly in love with her as Jamie who will die for her if needed. However I think it shows that being yourself, aka as Brienne, will attract people. Wouldn’t have thought at the beginning Brienne would be the love interest of freaking Jamie Lannister and one of the strongest men on the show. That whole fire scene was hilarious and sweet with the two men competing for her.
I agree he hasn’t been that creepy directly towards her but it clearly makes her uncomfortable. Maybe if the actress didn’t act it that way, it wouldn’t make me uncomfortable, but it still does make me uncomfortable. I did not consider that she is playing it as generally being uncomfortable with compliments, and that makes some sense
Yeah, I’m not comfortable at all with with matching her with Tormund just because he thinks she’s awesome and she should be happy with it. It reminds me of pressuring women to give the guy a chance. Over two seasons she’s not shown an inkling of any sort of interest in him at all, whereas all of her scenes with Jaime are emotionally charged, full of unspoken feelings. I don’t think Brienne wants to be worshipped by just anyone, she wants to be accepted and loved by the same kind of person who she aspired to be like but who used to mock her, a handsome knight like Jaime. She doesn’t want to operate outside of the system, she believes in knighthood, oaths, honour, serving your king and liege lord, etc. And clearly places a great deal of value on being a knight of the seven kingdoms. Tormund is the exact opposite of that system. He serves as a handy tool for pointing out the obvious system flaws as an outsider, to her and Jaime (“f**k tradition”) and I assume he will be a catalyst for whatever acknowledgment of their feelings for each other, but he’s not a good match for her otherwise. Brienne and Jaime are very much alike, travelling from the opposite ends of ideals of knighthood and honour to meet in the middle.
+1
For me all this pushing Tormund and Brienne together too much, she clearly is uncomfortable with his attentions. Tormund doesn’t notice and noone points it out to him. It’s like friends telling you to give a guy a chance, because he’s nice and he likes you, even though he makes you really uncomfortable.
Thing is Brienne is about tradition, honor and rules. She likes the so called old ways. Very opposite of Tormund.
I really don’t know how I’ll survive the next episode. This one already made me hyperventilate. For some reason after the episode I started humming the rains of castamere. Jaime really is trying hard to redeem himself.
Sad that Ghost seemed like such an afterthought in that scene.
Danny’s obsessive throne dream is something else. Just the fact that she didn’t even feel slightly barfy about their incestuous banging but went straight to the claim to the throne nonsense also shows she doesn’t really love Jon
Offtopic, but Gilly actress looked pregnant
She’s a Targ. Her parents were siblings. The fact that Jon is her nephew isn’t cause for pearl clutching in her book.
I’m so glad someone else acknowledged Beric’s sexy voice, I’m so into it.
My fantasy is to have him record a bedtime story that I can listen to every night as I fall asleep. Sweet dreams.
I love his voice. Roose Bolton was terrible, but I loved his voice to.
oh man, roose bolton’s voice wowwwwww so hot
the character/ actor had this sort of understated, elegant way of saying things (even tho morally they were repellant) that was just really sexy
Agreed!
This episode was a bit of a love letter to book readers in my opinion. Any book readers here? (don’t mean that in an offensive way) If not, go and research Jenny of Oldstones and the Ghost of High Heart. It’s so important to the over all prophesy of the Prince that was Promised. Gives a little more gravitas to the scene. And possibly to the overall resolution of the story. As does Brienne being named Knight of the Seven Kingdoms, she is a descendent of Duncan the Tall. (unfortunately her arc is complete, so she’ll get the chop next week). This episode was much better than last weeks. I also think Jon has been thinking HARD about all this stuff, people think he’s dumb but he’s not.
I am a book reader and loved the greater emphasis on magic in the books. Reading the books gives you deeper insights but I’ve had to divorce the two a bit since they diverge so much. Both are equally enjoyable.
@Lesanne
+1
I miss the magic too. For crying out loud how stupid is it that Bran a greenseeyer is hanging out at Winterfell and all these so called smart people just ignore him instead of learning all they can from his knowledge!? Like can you tell us the path being taken by the NightsKing, how many in his army? Or no one asking Jon how he came back to life? Jon not warying into Ghost to scout a bit beyond Winterfell to again get a glimpse of the coming dead army???
Why can’t Day and Jon ride the dragons to also spy on the oncoming army?
If Arya is still low key into Faces if the dead, is she not somehow able to connect with the King of the dead? AKA The Knight’s king?
It’s like the show has decided to not utilize any benefits of magic to case out a military strategy. They are going to just act like sitting ducks and wait to be slaughtered. It’s such bad writing compared to the books.
I read the books, but it was so long ago. I’ve pretty much forgotten every detail except for whispers in the back of my brain.
The writer described this episode as a love letter to the characters. I can’t understand the complaints from some people, honestly. This is the last time the show will be able to do this because a. lot of characters will die and b. they need to speed towards resolving everything. There are only four episodes to go! I loved it, it reminded me of the things I originally liked about Game of Thrones: people talking in a room.
Dany has some big decisions to make in the next few episodes. It’ll be interesting to see what she decides to compromise. Spare me the “mad queen” nonsense, though. I literally cannot think of a less interesting story direction than building her story for eight seasons and then rendering it meaningless with madness. That’s just shitty storytelling. The writer in me cringes at the thought of it.
GET IT ARYA
I’m still rooting for a Dany + Sansa friendship. I want these two to see eye to eye and understand they’re of my value to each other as compatriots than at odds. I honestly could care less about Jon lol.
I really liked that scene between Dany and Sansa. And I can see both points of view.
I think the most sensible direction of the story line for them is learning to compromise somewhere in the middle. Dany has a revolutionary’s vision while Sansa has actual ruling experience now. They have a lot to learn from one another, more than what they could lose from each other. I’ll be very annoyed with the writers if they do something less, since it’s absolutely clear that GRRM never intended Dany to be “villainous” in the books. I think she and Cersei are meant to be foils, driven by ambition, but Dany is the one with the potential to learn and change at this point.
Dany becomes the queen; Sansa is the hand???
I know it won’t happen, but that’s become my hope after watching the first 2 episodes. Dany can handle the grander, big vision stuff that she does so well, and Sansa can deal with the practical matters like feeding their armies. I feel like she could check Dany’s impulses, too. A power system that’s perfectly in balance, as all things should be.
I think Dany (and Jon) will certainly be in some position of power, but I wouldn’t be surprised if at the end, the choice is to get rid of the Iron Throne altogether. I don’t really buy the idea that she’s going to be dead at the end because that would be…redundant? We already have an empathetic female character whose ambitions have destroyed her moral center (Cersei) and will certainly lead to a bitter end for her, so having the same thing happen to Dany is just bad writing. They would work better as foils, with Dany allowing her love for Jon and her emerging respect for the Northerners lead her to a better understanding of how her vision will unfold realistically.
When Greyworm made plans to leave I told my husband he was going to die. And I’m not going to be okay.
I’m dreading the next episode. I’m predicting that Brienne, Jamie, Pod, Grey Worm, Jorah, Ed, and Davos are toast. And if the dead in the crypt rise, it’ll be a slaughter down there. Maybe, MAYBE, Tyrion will live. Varys is a goner. It’s a toss up for the rest. Theon will die defending Bran. Dany will probably try to kill Jon, now that she sees him as a rival.
I can’t believe no one has considered the fact that the Nights King can raise the dead, and they’re sending people into caves full of dead people…
Not Davos. He is a good strategist. Tney need him for a while.
Actually think Ed will survive. There is no reason to kill him off. GOT like to let those side characters live during big events for some reason unlike most shows. The only person I’m banking on living is The Hound as he needs to get to Kings Landing to have that confrontation with hi brother.
That episode was amazing. No massive CGI, just mostly amazing acting.
Yay Arya. Get your man. I think we will lose her next week.
Hail Ser Brienne. Her face told her story. In it, we witnessed her love for Jamie and the fulfillment of her dreams of knighthood. Her story is over. We will lose her next week and she will go down in an incredible battle. I don’t think we will lose Jamie yet.
Also I think we will lose Davos, Varys, Ed, Ghost, Gilly, Theon, Pod and Grey Worm next week.
I believe that Dany will try to take out Jon and Tyrion. Now for my out there thought – I think it will be Jorah who stops her. I just wonder if he may be the Prince who was promised. I think the sword Sam gave him will be important. Will it be the burning sword? Will he stab Dany with it? He loves her but I think he sees that she is changing. I’m thinking he may stop her.
I agree that Jorah’s sword will be important. I’m not sure how though.
Jorah has been my favourite character as far back as season one (admittedly helped by the fact that I have loved Iain Glen’s acting work ever since the late Nineties) and so I absolutely will not complain if he goes out in the fourth to last ep. Never thought he was one of those who’d make it this far.
Still, in my dreams I support the Jorah being Azor Ahai theory: it would be my favourite ending; him having to kill his love and defeating the Night King.
I guess both sides have their points: His arc can be considered complete (helped Dany get to Westeros, got redemption) and so he will bite the dust next week. Then again it would be an utter waste, him getting Heartsbane from Sam just to die in the first battle he uses it…
I really thought Dany was going to offer Sansa the Hand position. Oh – I wanted to see that so bad. They’d make such a good team and I love seeing two badass women be okay with the fact that they don’t have to be besties to enjoy each other’s strengths.
But… no. Dany’s insistence on blind loyalty will be a stumbling block I guess.
And also – every woman who is left is such an incredible character. Arya, Sansa, Lyanne, Dany, Brienne, even Cersei. Even though GoT has gotten it’s (fair) share of criticism for how the women are treated, we’re getting an incredibly satisfying resolution to these women’s stories. It’s not something that happens very often in prestige television, tbh.
Me too! Or something like Vice President of Nutrition and Cersei-doubting.
@10KTurtle:
“Vice President of Nutrition and Cersei-doubting.”
LMAO!
And Gilly. Gilly is common sense personified.
I also think Dany’s treatment of Tyrion is going to bite her on the ass – when she told him in front of everyone to go to the crypts was basically c0ckbl0cking him. He has never responded well to that – do he betray her, I dunno but he might do something stupid that blows up in his and everyones faces.
Bran can see everything. No one is asking him for advice. You have the 3 eyed Raven of amazingness and no one asks him anything. Talk about wasting an asset.
I wanted a reunion with Ghost. Where was he? Guess he was out doing his thing. Jon hasn’t seen him for awhile. Can we at least have gotten a pat on the head? Geez
Tyrion talked to him and I am dying to know what the three eyed raven told him.
Ghost was on the battlements with Jon, Ed and Sam midway through. Tiny cameo but he was there.
K i SOBBED when Brienne was knighted, i cried when Sansa and Theon hugged, GHOST!!, Arya and Gendry was perfect
( twitter was so funny). Did you notice how PISSED Dany was when first Sansa, then Jon left the room before the Queen after Jamie’s “trial”? Literally ALL she knows is power and she’s not getting it in the North. They won’t bow down as easily as others.
I think her and Jon will find themselves in a situation where she will be willing to sacrifice him for the throne but in the end will save him.
Tyrion so much foreshadowing in his speeches.
So many similarities starting to show between Dany and Cersei – they can ONLY see themselves on the throne and it doesn’t matter who they hurt/kill to get there. Thats why i dont think either will win it.
I am not emotionally ready for episode 3
What did Bran talk to Tyrion about?! R+L=J? Tyrion is a Targ too? Dany is going to bail? So many things could have been said.
Final season predictions:
Jon will defeat the Night King & die.
Dany will die
Tyrion, Sansa, Varys, Sam & whoever else is alive will form a Senate.
They will all be “free folk” & there won’t be anyone left who even wants the throne.
JAIME THO. Ugh that character development. And when Tyrion told him he’d never been fooled by Cersei…ugh. And then Bran told him he was going to die?? Amazing, all of it.
It was a great episode, and a great throwback to the time when all of the characters were important, not just the leading wet dishrags. I got mad Helm’s Deep vibes from the episode, and I’m so pleased about this.
God, we’re so forked next week. 🙁
Daenerys only thinks she loves Jon. Her entire reaction was something else entirely. At minimum she loves him as a subordinate, not an equal. She wanted him to bring her the North and I think a chunk of her annoyance with him and Winterfell is finding out he doesn’t hold the north, nor does he care to, Sansa does on both counts.
And I don’t think Jon was wrong to tell her when he did. He knew her was behaving differently towards her once he found out and he knew she was aware of it.
The secret was standing between them, hurting their ability to communicate. It likely still will but if he’s to make decisions alongside her as they head into battle, she needs to know what’s going on in his head and heart.
And I love that he spoke his own name.
Daenerys is so fixated on the throne that she didn’t see a super obvious solution, joint rule.
Well said. I do think she loved Khal and he is the only person she has loved in the series. Him and she highly respects Jorah.
“Joint rule.”
Exactly. And it’s been done in the past so there is precedence. Aegon the Conqueror never really cared for the day to day governing and left it to Visenya and Rhaenys who he married and they co-ruled.
Dany is really missing the bigger picture. With Jon as a co-ruler she is free to go to Essos and check in on Mereen, Astapor and Yunkai while Jon and Co handle the people of Westeros, especially the North who will now have a stake in the crown, because at the end of the day, Jon was raised a Northerner, and has proved that he doesn’t care about a throne or titles, but protecting his home and its people. Bringing the North into the fold this way instead of demanding they bow down out of fear is a much better card for her to play.
I think she has a high school crush on Jon and that’s about as deep as it goes.
I also don’t see the joint rule happening at all. I don’t think Dany wants to share, and in a way, I understand why. After all she fought for, if she severed side-by-side with Jon, she would always be viewed as secondary. Then again, I still don’t think she has much interesting in ruling. I think she just wants that throne.
The only person who is ruling right now is Sansa. And is seems like most of the North is listening to her. I don’t think the North gives two craps about Dany or Jon right now, and I can’t blame them.
I know Daenerys doesn’t want to think about joint rule but I’m not sure anyone can give a good reason she shouldn’t. Kingdoms need heirs. Even under the best of circumstances, there is no guarantee one child survives to adulthood or survives her possible early death.
She doesn’t just need heirs of her body or otherwise, she needs alliances that uphold her heir and supports a possible regency.
Co-ruling with Jon does all of that. House Targaryen has one/two remaining heirs, no family, no presence, no deep ties.
House Stark brings the North, has ties to Riverrun, the Vale, the Ironborn, etc.
For her to ignore those strengths is ridiculously short sighted. Bending the knee without an investment in her rule pretty much ensures a succession crisis and another war.
Sansa is wise to ask what next.
I also don’t agree with previous threads stating that the North doesn’t see the threat. Didn’t their ancestors build the Wall? They’ve been sending generations of their children to defend it. They would not have done so if they didn’t fear the old stories. But the old stories suggest a long affair, the long night, the long winter. The north believes this is just the beginning.
Jon wasn’t raised on those same stories though thanks to Cat
The Northerners are stubborn. They can’t see that Jon has literally put his life on the line, forsaking all that trivial ish. He doesn’t care about anything other than saving their asses in its purest form. He’s not doing it because there is a crown for him at the end of he lives, he has accepted he very well may die. If he survives and he kills NK somehow, they will come around because he did it to protect his people, who now include the entire realm in the grand scheme of things.
Tyrion learned Bran’s story. I am sure is more to that. Maybe Bran dies and Tyrion assumes the keeper of memories role? Later he said he though they would live. I just want him to live but don’t think he will!
I think PPs are right that everyone in the crypt will die and Little Adam will become a white walker baby. The important people, Tyrion and Sam, who were told to be in the crypt did not go. Also, Gilly looked so pregnant, I wonder how many episodes she could be in.
I think I’m the only one fearing for The Night King’s “life”.
I’ll be devastated if he’s defeated right in the middle of the season. Seriously.
I can’t see how that would happen. And if it did, it would be disappointing. The show has been telling it’s audience about this threat since Episode One, scene one. So the idea that the WWs and the NK are defeated at Winterfell would be so anti-climactic. It would also mean that Cersi was right and strategized perfectly.
I think the NK has to make it to King’s Landing. And by that point, it won’t be about the throne but the survival of humanity.
Precisely! It would make no sense at all but…the show writers have screwed things up so many times.
Wrong thread.
I think he’s going to make it to the end, unless the writers are absolute morons. (Which they are at times, mind.) I suspect it’s more likely that Winterfell will fall first, forcing everyone to come to terms with the horror of the threat of the Night King. That would serve fairly well as a pivot point for a lot of the character clinging stubbornly to their own perspectives rather than seeing the larger picture.
@Veronica S.:
I sincerely hope you’re right.
Did we see him in the previews in that line of the other White Walkers on their horses? Or is it a fake-out and he is riding Zombie Visyrion straight to King’s Landing?
@10KTurtle:
Nope. Those were his “generals” so to speak (supposedly Craster’s sons offered to him, those babies he transformed into White Walkers).
Craster said in an episode he had had 99 sons so…99 minus little Sam and four or five that were killed by Samwell Tarly, Meera and Jon Snow (twice), there SHOULD BE 94 of them.
94 generals who can turn the dead into wights as well — not as powerfully as the Night King himself, but they can.
ETA: I read somewhere that Daenerys stated they were about 1,000. Not sure if that proceeds.
“ETA: I read somewhere that Daenerys stated they were about 1,000. Not sure if that proceeds.”
Excuse me for my mistake. I meant “Not sure if that has been confirmed”.
Does anyone think that Dany could bail on the battle at some point? We know the dragons don’t like the cold and aren’t eating much. So if the Night King ushers in some brutal weather, I don’t know how effective they will be. And if she realizes that the battle is lost, she could head south to King’s Landing on Drogon. Especially knows that there is a serious threat to her potential rule.
Ooooh, I hadn’t thought about the other effects of that cold fog he brings everywhere he goes…
I’m just wondering if the battle will start will Jon and Dany on dragons, because the previews show Jon in the ground. Does that mean Viserion and Rhaegal go at each other and take each other out? If Dany bails with her dragons that will just make her look dishonorable because as Queen of the 7 kingdoms, the Northerners are her people too that she has sworn to protect. I don’t think she’s that awful. I still hold on to the hope that she’s not that ruthless. She’ll never get the love of the people if she bails. The Northerners at this point also count Riverrun, The Twins (thanks to Edmure marrying the Frey heir) and the Vale as allies. The Iron borne as well if Theon has any influence.. The Stormlands if Gendry survives. Her bailing is not only a crappy thing to do, but also a stupid thing. And if she’s counting on everybody dying, she’ll be ruling over a graveyard as Jon pointed out.
What’s going on with Edmure?? Did they leave him at Riverrun? The Lannisters were holding his son as hostage to maintain his compliance, so they may have left him to hold the castle for them. Was the baby left with the Freys? Also, I don’t know that Edmure necessarily married the Frey heir, just one of Walder’s daughters. In fact, she looked entirely to young to be Walder’s heir once Arya killed all his sons. Surely old Walder had an older daughter who would be the heir. Just so many dangling storylines. And with Walder dead, and Cersei potentially still holding Edmure’s son as hostage, can they really count on either the Twins or Riverrun as allies?
Walder did not consider daughters as true heirs though, just alliances solidifiers.
And the only one who cares about Edmure’s son is Edmure. He was the worst of the Tullys and so many of them are dead, mostly at the hands of the Lannisters.
So get back a baby no one remembers or her revenge on the Lannisters after the near obliteration of the Tullys and the Stark overlords AND fight the walkers?
There is nothing for Cersei in Riverrun
If I’m remembering correctly, I think that Cersei called back all her bannermen to have in KL along with the Golden Company. She doesn’t care about the Riverlands. And Jaime was really the one who had to go back and restore order when the Blackfish attempted the siege. Now that Jaime has joined the North I don’t think there is anyone left in the Riverlands to align with the Lannisters. I could be misteken.
Edmure was returned to the Freys and put back in the dungeon. His kid is still with its mother. Jaime wasn’t bringing a toddler with him back to King’s Landing. All the adult male Freys died so it’s just women at the Twins
Theon has no say in what happens with the Ironborne. If Yara takes the Iron Islands with Euron gone, as she swore to do (she might have to kill her other uncle Aerin), then Dany has their allegiance. If Euron still controls, they’re sworn to Cersei.
HEY EVERYONE: Have I missed it? Where is the Red Woman, I mean the one that had the poor little girl burned to death??
We haven’t seen her yet. I’d expect she shows up in the King’s Landing episode. She’s too big to just forget about, but she won’t have gone north.
I think she’ll show up in the north at some point only because just about everyone she thought would figure into her prophecy business is up there.
No way is she huffing it to King’s Landing to chill with Cersei over figuring out what the Lord of Light really has in store.
One of my favorite characters has become Sansa, and I LOVED how everyone pledged fight for HER, with Queen D. sitting right there. I LOVED how Sansa stood her ground to tell Dani the North has vowed to never bend the knee to anyone else again. I LOVED her faith and gratitude to Brienne, and her forgiveness and gratitude to Theon. I also loved her skepticism over her brother’s judgement when it comes to Dani! She was knee deep in battle plans and protecting her people when Dani walked in, also. She’s every inch a Lady Stark to me, and I just adore how her strength and character have changed over the years.
She’s had a fantastic character arc!
Beric Dondarrion‘s voice is amaaazing. I’d never noticed before, and during the season premiere, I told my husband, “I’d listen to that guy’s audiobook.”
He could tell me some Old Nan tales during a long winter
Holy shit I would listen to Beric read catalogs or even a phone book.
Beric’s voice is like butter enrobed in honey, like a cat purring contentedly.
Dayum, I’m getting hot around the collar. *fanning myself*
I’ve seen a few articles reference that the Battle for Winterfell will be similar to Helm’s Deep. Which 100% means those crypts are going to be the way the dead get into Winterfell.
My Nephew, My Lover, My King. A la Boromir. I think Dany will be out before much longer.
Actually, My Lover, My Nephew, My King. My bad.
Remember when Jamie said he “wanted to die in the arms of the woman he loves”? I think maybe he will get between Brienne and a white walker and then die in her arms…
I adore these posts because I won’t see the actual show until it comes out on Netflix DVD many moons from now. I know there are ways I could, but I have drawn a line at paying for NF! I watch every clip I can though, and I was musing over the previous episode’s end in with Bran waiting for Jaime…. Did a conversation take place between them at the start?
I feel that Bran might warg to the past eventually and this time die which would change the current future in a better direction. Yeah, that’s what I picked up solely based on Bran’s expression 😜 Excuse me while I go to my corner and spin out some more theories!
Yay for Arya and Gendry! Yay for Ser Brienne! Yay for Ghost!
PS: I love you, Tormund!
Find a friend and make it a watch date! Lots of folks I know get together every week to watch!
I don’t even pay for cable TV, but I got HBO Now for $14.99 a month, and I’ll discontinue it the moment GOT is done. It’s a treat!! 🙂
I bet Dany kills Jon now. Or somehow makes it happen…maybe during battle. He’s now her competition and a threat. That look on her face looked like ruthless machinations to me. Just a gut feeling.
Anyone noticed the shape formed by the dragon glass blades Arya threw at that wooden pillar? You know, when she asks Gendry about her weapon?
She says death had many faces and she was looking forward to seeing “this one”.
They showed it briefly but the image formed seemed eerily like the one of a dragon. Is Arya planning to kill poor Viserion (again)?
Is she really going to beat the Night King at javelin throw?
This episode had so many wonderful moments, but we were also taking turns calling “Well, he’s gonna die. He’s gonna die. She’s gonna die. He’s gonna die.”
I’m not an Arya/Gendry shipper, but I’m glad for any badass lady to get her f– on on her own terms. Seemed awkward at first and I thought maybe it was bad chemistry, but they got better and it seemed more like the very normal ‘friends fumbling a bit at first before going all in’.
I also never really got why people kept saying Jamie was in love with Brienne. I could see maybe vice versa, but Jamie’s very vocally been in love with Cersei. But…when Jamie said he wanted to fight for Brienne, I said, “Aw, did she want him to say more?” Then they cut to his face as she walked away and I went, “Whoa, did *he* want him to say more?” Finally saw it a little bit, and I loved the mutual measuring of Jamie & Tormund.
Tormund’s giant milk story was fantastic. I didn’t think that could be beat until they knighted Ser Brienne. Gwendoline Christie’s acting, even just her face alone — especially her face! — was absolutely phenomenal.
Reading this thread was almost as enjoyable as watching the episode, you’re all fantastic ! 🙂
Yes, I thought as much as I love the show, I also look forward to reading all the Celebitchy readers’ take on it!! 🙂
There was one more reunion that happened. Ned’s sword. Both pieces of his sword were there. Brienne holds Oathkeeper. Jamie was carrying the sword forged for Joffrey. I think Joffrey named it Widow maker. Brienne was knighted with that sword. I just can’t remember when Jamie got the sword. I thought it was with Joffrey’s body. But that was the other part of Ned’s sword. Can’t remember it’s name. Maybe Ice?
Joffrey’s sword was named “Widow’s Wail”.
Both swords came from “Ice”, Ned Stark’s sword.
From Game of Thrones Wiki:
Season 4
“Ice is melted down on Tywin Lannister’s orders by a Volantene blacksmith brought to King’s Landing to make Jaime Lannister a new sword. However, due to Ice’s substantial size, there’s enough Valyrian steel to make two longswords. When Jaime asks about the source of the Valyrian steel, Tywin simply replies that “the previous owner no longer needed it.” Tywin Lannister also callously burns Ice’s wolf-pelt scabbard as an even further gesture of spite and dishonor towards the Starks.
@I Didn’t Do It:
If you want to know more, here’s the link:
https://gameofthrones.fandom.com/wiki/Ice
I think the show is setting Dany up to die. There’s a degree of conflict between her wanting to be Queen of the Seven Kingdoms, and Sansa saying that the North must remain free and independent. I cannot see how that would get resolved in any sort of appropriate way by the end of the show. Dany has been set up as a character who is unbending in pursuing what she thinks is hers. The fact that her conflict with Sansa has been left unresolved in this episode, when it’s likely to be the only episode where they’ll get a chance to sit and talk about politics like this, is significant.
I’ve been going through a list of all the people I think are going to die in the next few episodes, and aside from Dany, I have Gendry, Tormund, Theon, Lyanna, and a few others. Basically anyone who the viewers would root for are going to be axed, and it’s entirely because the whole premise of the show is that there are no happy endings.
Thank you for recognizing Beric’s hot AF voice!! HOT AF.
Arya is going to change into either a white walker or the Night King and kill the undead dragon
Ser Jorah will save Dany using the Tarly sword but then be mortally wounded.
Jaime will survive as he needs to kill Cersei but then dies by the hand of the mountain. I would like Tyrion and Sansa to be on the Iron throne. They are technically still married and the best qualified for the job.