SPOILERS for Game of Thrones.
We will have the final episode of the final season of Game of Thrones in a matter of days. I’m not too worked up about it? Like, I was so anxious about the final episodes two months ago, but once we got through the Long Night, I’ve just felt very ambivalent towards the picayune political jostling. Cersei and Jaime’s deaths were so unsatisfying, and if Daenerys kills Tyrion in the final episode, it will be A) complete justified and B) a long time coming. She honestly should have killed Tyrion several episodes ago. He’s done next to nothing the past two seasons except make bad decisions and give terrible advice.
So while I feel strongly that Tyrion will and should die, I’ve been lightly focused on another theory: that Daenerys will fly Drogon back to the North and kill Sansa Stark, and possibly Bran too, God knows. This theory is everywhere this week. I mean, it could be. Dany knows Sansa doesn’t like her and is sort of plotting against her. I find that the possibility really doesn’t bug me that much? Like, Sansa has been through some sh-t, for sure, but she also broke her word to Jon Snow and spilled the tea to Tyrion like five minutes later. Let’s not pretend that Sansa is some brilliant strategist either, and… did anyone else think it was weird that Sansa was basically left in Winterfell without any kind of protection? Jon brought the Northern army south to help Dany. Arya is South. The Wildlings went back north of the wall. Sansa only has Brienne.
As for Arya being in Kings Landing right now… there’s also a theory that she’ll kill Daenerys, especially if Jon Snow doesn’t. It definitely seems to be in ether… Dany will die, somehow, and who is left to kill her other than Jon or Arya? What if it turns out to be Grey Worm though, huh? Also: I feel like Arya is still going through some changes – she’s not No One, she’s not completely Arya, she’s something else at this point. The Hound reminded her of her humanity.
Another theory is that if Jon ever “got” the Iron Throne – by killing Dany or whatever – he would give it up and then he would go North, but not to Winterfell – he would go North of the Wall and live out his days with the Wildlings and Ghost. This theory sounds… like fans of the show wanting Jon to apologize to his good dog. And I don’t think that will happen. Although it pains me to think that we won’t see Tormund or Ghost again in the final episode.
Photos courtesy of HBO/Game of Thrones.
Danaerys kills Tyrion. Danaerys tries to kill Jon (Sansa second on her kill list), but Arya kills Danaerys. Jon abdicates to Sansa. Jon flies off on Drogon (or someone kills Drogon first, and Jon and Arya ride away to become no one.
This is nearly exactly what I think will happen.
And I want Sansa and Brienne to fall in love. But yes, all of this.
You just made me realize that I hadn’t consider Drogon’s role in all this. Maybe Drogon decides who rules:)
😁
Maybe Jon flies to Westeros on Drogon ( bc Drogon doesn’t do well in the North) to re-establish KL, leaving Sansa to rule the North. IDK…so many possibilities!!
Danny tries to have Drogon kill Jon but he chooses Jon after he didn’t burn alive. Arya kills Danny, Jon gives up the throne to Sansa.
Drogon kills Daenerys upon Jon’s command. There are more Targaryen bastards out there in the books so maybe one resurfaces. The Starks take back the north including North of the wall. I actually have no idea 😩
I actually doubt that Dany will get to kill Tyrion: he’s not coming back to her after the mass murders in KL… and she’ll believe he’s going to head back North to Sansa (prob the case), giving Dany an extra reason to want to kill both of them. If Starks die, it’s going to be Bran (now that the walkers are gone, there’s no need for a 3ER) and/or Arya. I still think Tyrion and Sansa will make it (but I love Tyrion so I’m totally biased)
Agreed. I think Tyrion and Sansa will make it to the throne in the end.
I hope he runs like hell out of there. He was always my favorite character, and it has been a bummer seeing him getting outplayed and growing dumber. Save yourself, Tyrion!
You know what I don’t get? If Dany is the daughter of Mad King and Jon is the grandson, how is his claim to the throne better than Dany’s?
Megan – Jon is the son of the heir so next in line – to put it simply it would like Elizabeth and Charles dying – it goes to William then rather than to Princess Ann or Andrew/Edward – whichever was born next.
Nah, Arya’s done being no-one. A huge part of her arc is reclaiming her humanity and reconnecting with people after being a child of war and violence. I think the show illustrated this in the most recent episode with her doing her best to defend the common folk and getting them out of the city. I think that’s what her future will be while Sansa will get into the political game with the high lords and ladies.
However, with the awful writing this season…who knows!
Danaerys tries to kills Jon, Sansa and/or Arya with Drogon. Bran worgs into Drogon and eats Danaerys. Bran than flies into a mountain committing dragoncide. After experiencing the horrors in Kings Landing, Arya reconsiders being Lady of Storms End. The North becomes an independent Kingdom again, ruled by Sansa.
Oh, I like this, too!!
Ha! I hadn’t thought about Bran worging into Dragon. Damn, that would be vicious… and I think a lot of fans would revolt!
My fanfic of the day:
– Dany tries to kill Tyrion by tourching him… but he doesn’t burn bc he’s the third Targaryen!
– Jon or Arya stab Dany in the heart with dragonglass/valerian steel (ala Children of the Forrest with first man) and she turns into a Night Queen!!
– She flees on Dragon – Jon chases her to the North to continue his life long brooding quest of fighting White Walkers.
-Sansa and Tyrion re-marry and fulfill the Targaryen & Stark prophecy and rule the 7 Kingdoms
@Lindam
I so wish that your version of the last episode would have been filmed but it’s too good a story for the D&D hacks. Sigh!
No further Starks will die IMO. GRRM is killing off the previous generation of leaders and leaving The Children” to form a brave new world out of the ashes of the old.
Arya: completely safe,. GRRM’s wife’s will divorce him if he kills her off! LOL
Sansa: also completely safe. A writer for Variety pointed out that Sansa is a D&D created character. They left GRRM’s Sansa in KL, placed Sansa into another character’s storyline to get raped but triumph. (gag)
Bran: Safe in the books because he is the first POV character in the books for a reason. I’m 100% sure he is safe on the show. D&D recreated him by ret-conning him into a brand new role: the holder of human memories. To kill him is kill humanity and let the NK win.
Jon: His is the song of a ice (Stark) and Fire (Targaryen). A 100% pure Targaryen will not be allowed to live. Their fire has to be tempered with ice to stay balanced (not be crazy)
@notsosocialbutterfly Ah ! I love your theory! And your guess about Arya is same as mine, she ready to open up to love.
@miagirl your theory is fantastic too, but I think it’s Sansa who will turn Dany with the dragonglass dagger Arya gave her to defend herself in Winterfell !
There is no way Jon rides on drogon, targaryen or not drogon is 100 percent loyal to Dany. It was already too much that he got to ride rhaegal, too soon for me.
I think it will be revealed that Tyrian has Targarean blood. I’ve been rewatching the series again and there was that one scene where the two dragons are chained in a cell and he walks in and released their chains. One even moves closer and makes it easier for him to do so. If it were anyone else those dragons would have burned or eaten them. They allowed him to apply, remove the chains and leave like they’d known him forever.
@Sherry I still think that is a [strong] possibility in the books, but I don’t think the show left room for that.
@Sherry @Turtle I also think that in the books Tyrion might be a Targaryen. Aeris was infatuated by Joanna Lannister, and he was concieved while Joanna and Tywin were in KL. In the books Tyrión is fascinated by dragons, Tywin ambiguosly comments something on the line that he brought Tyrion as one of his own, he has half dark half blond almost white hair…. He can interact with the dragons in Dance of Dragons….
However I doubt that in show D&D are going this way. They already left out the real Aegón Targaryen that appears in them. So I’m afraid Jon and Dany are the last Targs.
Dany will have Tyrion arrested. Jon stabs Dany and surrenders himself. Bran will be king, Sansa will rule the North. Arya will leave. Bran will oversee his council composed of Tyrion, Davos, Sam and Bronn.
This is what will happen- full stop. When Grey Worm accuses him of treason for trying to call off his men when Kings Landing surrendered, Arya’s going to try to step in. Dany will become enraged at Jon and Arya while having Tyrion in chains. When Dany attempts to kill Arya, Jon kills Dany, frees Arya and Tyrion and a coucil will be created, just like you said.
SPOILERS! SPOILERS! SPOILERS!
@ Kix – This is from the infamous 4Chan leak that so far has turned out to be 100% true. I don’t know if it’s right to post it as “speculation” without a spoiler warning? (Not sure on posting etiquette).
I like all of this but Sansa will never leave Winterfell again. Unless the seat of power moves north, she won’t be queen of everything. She wants an independent North. I can see Jon being King of Six Kingdoms and letting Sansa be Queen in the North.
Tyrion survives. Jon will kill Danny and in doing so he will kill the boy inside(Jon Snow) and become Aegon. Drogon flees with her corpse?
Jon either dissolves the kingdom into separate ones or abdicates to Sansa. He will go home to Winterfell or beyond the wall.
Bran follows the legacy of Bran the builder and rebuilds the wall. Arya goes home to Winterfell-we need a Stark in Winterfell. In the books, I think it will be Rickon but on the show, I think Arya
After last week, it’s clear Jon will kill Dany — I didn’t read the books, but something about the promised one killing his wife on the third try to create his sword? The first one tried water to temper the blade, and it didn’t work (Arya killed the “ice” king). The second try was lion’s blood, and it didn’t work (Dany killed “lion” Cersie). But the third time, he stabbed his wife in the heart and it worked — that will be Jon killing Dany.
Then Jon abdicates because he never wanted the throne and he’s sick of what it does to people. Sansa becomes queen, and the cycle of games continues.
The Northerners don’t have the brains to figure out how to kill a dragon, and Jon is Targarian anyway, so Drogon will “peace out” and fly away to some far-off land.
As a side note, I just watched the episode a second time — it wasn’t just the Dothraki killing civilians, it was Northerners too (cutting a woman’s throat, trying to rape another woman, etc.). But I think I on’y saw Grey Worm killing King’s Landing soldiers. A lot of people think Northerners are somehow “better” than other men, but they’re clearly not.
They weren’t better at all. However, the difference was in leadership- Jon gave the order and tried to stop his men. I think that was the point.
Arya killing Danaerys sounds about right because it’s stupid and lazy like season 8 entirely.
At this point I honestly have no idea what is going to happen! I didn’t even think of Dany going straight for Sansa until you said it but it makes sense. The only thing that’s saddened me this season is the moaning. Agreed, the writing has been pretty bad but the widespread bitching is just tainting the memory of ten years I’ve loved watching it. Can’t we all just see the ride out and enjoy it?
This is where I am, which is sad because I love talking about something I’ve enjoyed for so long. Faults are there, of course, but the discourse is beyond the pale. Tired of having to read through vitriol to get to saner tête-à-têtes lol.
I’m with you. I haven’t been upset this season at all, it does feel rushed, but at this point there is one focus so the other storylines are pretty much irrelevant.
The writers are the one preventing us to enjoy the ride.
Nobody prevents you from doing anything. You’re in control of you. GOT’S worst written seasons continue to be better than a whole lot of other choices within, and without, this genre.
I respectuously desagree. For 6 seasons bad episodes of GOT were better than 75% of anything else on TV but I don’t believe it is the case any more.
Also, if I go the restaurant and the chef “dracarys” my meal, the chef is the one preventing me from enjoying sayed meal.
So your viewing device can only stream HBO? If something is so astoundingly unenjoyable, why partake? I enjoy all my options, television is top of its game. No need to suffer through horrendous writing.
I still care for the characters and want to know what happens. And for most of us that is the reason why we are disappointed. Because we feel that the writing does not do justice to their journey.
Now I think that it’s awesome that you can still fully enjoy the show. I am a bit jealous.
But we (the moaners) love or loved the show as a whole and that’s why we need a place to vent. This place just happens to be Internet.
I feel ya. I really do. My main complaint has been the whiplash. There’s been such an avalanche of negativity, however, I guess I’m over the malcontent instead of being over the show like so many. Sorry I chose you to turn the release valve a hair lol.
I agree, I enjoy chatting about theories and reading everyone’s opinion, but the constant negativity is driving me nuts. This is still my favorite show by far, we’ve had a wild ride with this show and this season is no exception.
It’s hella hard to find a forum that is taking what we got and discussing it rather than foaming at the mouth over not getting what they expected.
Meanwhile, I’m becoming more fascinated by what we have been given each day.
I’m going to rewatch the entire series when it’s done but I’m knee deep in my brain rehashing everything Daenerys has done and my feelings about it then and what my feelings are now in a new context.
Did I always feel bad for Mirri Maz Duur or am I rewriting my own history?
Why exactly did I like and celebrate Dany and Drogo at the time even though they lead a khalisar though rape and pillage and the destruction of cultures?
Me as well @jess. Can we just enjoy it, they cant please everyone but I’m pretty satisfied with the season so far. With the exception of ghost
People are entitled to their opinions and many people are deeply disappointed that their favourite show has, in their opinion, gone down the drain. I would also disagree that for all it’s problems, it’s better written than most TV shows. There’s numerous television series that are better written than Game of Thrones.
I understand negativity can dampen someone’s enjoyment of the show. I think it’s rude for someone to argue with someone who enjoys the show and isn’t bothered by flaws to the same extent. However, people should be free to vent their frustrations if invited to do so (such as in comment sections dedicated to an episode).
I understand why some fans are not happy, I really do, but I just don’t have that strong of a reaction. To me, the writing on GOT has always been fairly sub-par, there were always plot holes and have always been problems with writing women & POC. This is nothing new. But there was a lot to enjoy in this series and I will enjoy it through the end.
Also not new is the idea of many of the story lines this season – Dany’s in particular. It does feel rushed, I agree, but to be surprised by where they went… I don’t know. Like others have pointed out, Dany’s journey to burning the city was always there.
I do feel for the fans who invested as Dany as the hero of the series, because the fall from grace seems out of character if you were looking at her through that POV. I just never saw her like that and thought she had more tyrant in her than many were seeing.
I think the writers only consistent “heroes” in this series have been the Starks. None of them have truly turned “bad”, terrible fates have been brought upon them and ultimately, those who brought those fates upon the Starks have almost all fallen (this includes Jamie). It’s always been about the Starks.
@Mia
Completely agree with you on all points.
Exactly. This is a saga about a decent family’s fall and rise from despair. Orphaned children found each other, and when the dust settles, we’ll know if Starks can exist another thousand years lol.
At the moment, there are no possibilities for Stark heirs…..why is nobody talking about this?!
There have always been poorly written episodes, and did we all forget how bad the Dorne plot was? GOT has had extraordinary moments, but it’s always been uneven, except for how it looks. The direction is the real star, but TV is the writer’s medium, so we talk more about when the writing is bad than when the direction is good. The directing this season has been incredible.
@ Mabs
Back story in the books is that the Starks were incredibly powerful before Aegon Targaryen conquered Westeros. I think the song of ice and fire is ultimately how the Starks become the central power in Westeros. It’s all about the Starks, start to finish.
@Algernon, that’s how watching the show felt to me personally. That it’s always been about the Starks.
And Bran needs to warg one last time lol.
i’m with you Maddy! I’m so sick of the fans of their “favorite” character bitching & moaning. It was never going to please everyone. I for one will never forget the last 8 years and what this TV show has been for me. There is simply none better and the last few episodes may not win a Pulitzer Prize but the overall GOT is spectacular and deserves better than it’s getting this last season. Get over yourselves not getting the ending you wanted!
My theory is that she will kill Tyrion and then plan to go after either just Sansa, or Sansa, Arya, Bran and Sam, all of whom know the truth about Jon, and that is what will make Jon kill her.
I’m also over the show. I was so excited about the Long Night but this season has been just disappointment after disappointment. Nobody deserves the throne.
And I just like to point out that while Dany is the “Mad Queen” for burning innocents, nobody made that same comment about Grey Worm or the rest of the army who also decided to kill everyone after they surrendered. Dany is crazy but homeboy is just angry. Go figure.
Killing a few soldiers who were about to try to kill you but decided to surrender is not comparable to burning down an entire city of innocent people running for their lives. Plus he’s not a main character so of course he won’t get as much focus, and he was reacting to Dany continuing her rampage, had she stopped he would have as well.
Greyworm didn’t “only” kill a few soldiers who had surrendered though, what he did was slaughtering, and he went for civilians too let’s face it. It was vile and the killing of Missandei is not an excuse to murder thousands of people. IRL it’d be a war crime (and Trump us currently pardoning soldiers who acted this way in Irak and Afghanistan)
So yeah, no pass for Greyworm even if yes, we get where it’s all coming and he’s been trained to be a killing machine
He didn’t have to follow suit. You don’t have to follow your leader if you disagree with genocide. Jon and Davos didn’t. We expected this from Dothraki because of their culture of conquest, the Unsullied followed Grey Worm, but the Northeners should have followed Jon and I hope there’s some consequence after Dany is no longer queen.
Oh I don’t give him a pass at all, what he did was awful and I think he’ll die because of it. I was giving my thoughts on the original poster saying Dany got called crazy but Grey Worm was just angry, he definitely went batcrazy as well, it broke my heart because that was so out of character for him.
So Tyrion frees Jaime primarily in a bid to get Cersei to give up the city and he’s a traitor but Grey Worm who is Dany’s military commander would be doing the right thing had he laid down arms despite his queen’s unspoken order?
If you think back through the initial invasion plans, no one agreed that fighting would cease when the bells rang. Tyrion begged it would be so but it was left in the hands of Daenerys.
When Daenerys started lighting shit up, Grey Worm had his orders. And Jon followed suit, advancing the Northmen once Grey Worm led the push with the Dothraki.
Jon Snow assisted civilians where he could be he continued to fight as his queen directed, only falling back when he realized Daenerys was burning indiscriminately hitting her own troops as well.
That’s when he gave the order to fall back.
When the leader of the army goes berserk, the discipline of the rest of the army completely falls apart. The northmen also gladly joined in with the killing and the raping.
I do think there were double standards applied to Dany, the characters all calling her mad when up to the point of burning down KL she really hadn’t done anything that a random Westerosi military commander hadn’t done either. Tywin Lannister ordered and encouraged some of the worst atrocities in the series, against innocents too, but nobody calls him psychotic. He even sacked Kings Landing himself as well, when the Lannister army looted and raped throughout the city, with his blessing. While I do think her descent into madness would happen anyway, I think the show handled it quite poorly. In the books she’s always been at the very least an odd person, hearing voices, having visions. The show had characters basically tells us she’s going mad rather than showing that side of her personality. They get away with it because the viewers expected her to become mad anyway, the daughter of a mad king.
IMO it comes down to whatever method of killing your culture has decided is considered “civil” or “fair game”.
For example lethal injection vs hanging. Both result in death. But we consider the drug method more “civilized”.
In Westeros death by sword or ax is their version of “civilized” death. Dragon fire or being set on fire period is viewed as barbaric.
For example Melisandre’s burning alive of people was also viewed as crazy. The soldiers who don’t flinch at heads being cut off, were also shown as uncomfortable and looking like they needed to thrown up. Everyone gave her a wide brith.
Ditto with Dragon fire!
Again, the term “Mad Queen” is not a random term used for Dany because she has a vagina. It’s applied to all crazy *Targaryens*.
With the men being called “Mad Kings”. People who pretend to not understand this come across as ignorant about the show/book. People jumping on a topic without knowing the background history.
Trump is called crazy because he is crazy. If Ivanka becomes crazy and is called crazy, it’s not because she is a woman.
No one needed to call Tywin “mad” because it was already established that he was a bad person and one of the shows villains.
The “Mad Queen” line with Dany is a result of her being the Mad Kings daughter. He was screaming “burn them all” and was executed by Jaime before he could ever kill all of those people. Dany really did burn them all and if you paid attention to the last episode you could see wildfire explosions (the same wildfire that her father planned to use on his people) as Dany burned the city.
I’m over the show, too. I’ve emotionally separated myself from it, if that makes any sense.
I think Jon will kill Dany for sure. All the Starks are in danger. Dany will sentence Tyrion to death. She may die before it gets carried out, though.
Greyworm will take his army and go back home. Maybe the Dokrathi will follow
Sansa will rule either the North or get the throne. If Tyrion is still around, he will be the Hand.
Jon will exile himself after killing Dany. His conscious always takes over. He is more Stark than Targaryen.
I don’t care about Bran. His story went nowhere.
The big question for me is Arya. I would like to see her either rule with Sansa or go back to Gendry. I know the last option won’t happen, but it would make me happy.
I also hope we get no more lingering death scenes. Doesn’t it seem like every named character got a death scene? Ugh. I’m wondering if Bronn or Sam will make an appearance. Sam said goodbye, but we don’t know what became of Bronn
Grey Worm only killed Lannister soldiers – at least, that’s all they showed the audience. But I DID see Northern soldiers killing civilians, like the one who slit a woman’s throat while her kid hid behind a pillar. The Northerners are no better than anyone else – we’ve previously seen how dumb and disloyal they are, and now we’ve seen they are vicious an immoral too. Is that the point of the show, that everyone is bad? Then why bother? Maybe they should have just let the Night King take over, because he killed fewer people than Dany and Cersie, and the other “living” rulers did.
I’m totally up for having noone sitting on the throne, or the throne not really existing anymore. Dany will go down and Jon will not want it. It’s a new time and I’d love it if they would just have the Government with Ser Davos and Brienne in charge.
I agree that no one (not “No One”) will sit on the Iron Throne. My guess is that Jon will allow all the Seven Kingdoms to self-rule, as they did 300 years ago, before the Targaryans took over.
The show has gotten so messy I really don’t care who lives or dies at this point.
co-sign. at this point I expect Euron the eurotrash pirate to be raised from the dead by melissandra and he gets the throne. or a zombie hand out of the rubble Cersei. Or the mountain-why would he die just from falling out of the red keep?
It was quite a long fall and into fire.
@ Linda
Re the mountain: He slowly and carefully pulled out a massive dagger from his skull…..it wouldn’t surprise me to see a huge, headless, charred zombie, casually walking around next episode.
Uh….Melisandre is gone. She took off her necklace (power) and disintegrated after the White King/Walkers battle. She can’t help Euron at this point and besides who would want to? He’s literally the scumiest and sleaziest character they’ve ever had on the show. He would be considered poor white trash in today’s society.
I have tons of theories, all likely better than what we will end up with.
Maybe Greyworm Kills her, he’s would be one of the very few that could get close enough and he went all blood rage and speared an unarmed fleeing man in the back. Perhaps he realizes they have become what they were supposed to fight and he cannot live with it.
I’d like to see the old tinfoil hat theory that Tyrion is actually a Targaryen be true and she finds out when she tries to burn him. Maybe she tries to burn Tyrion and Jon together and they just stand there naked.
Maybe Drogon eats them all.
I thought about that same thing, she tries to burn Jon but he just stands there in the flames perfectly fine like really bitch?!
What if Drogon refuses to follow her order to burn Jon? That would be the most heartbreaking end for Dany.
@Cherie LOL at the thought of Jon, Tyrion, & Dany all standing around naked just looking back and forth at each other and Drogon!
Maybe spoilers? Just in case anyone cares.
This was my hope as explanation for the secrecy around Tyrion’s alleged death– the story goes that they shot two, one of which was in a closed studio presumably for digital dragon purposes. I would hate to see Tyrion die, even the shell of his former self he has become. Let him be a bastard Targ and he takes the throne after Jon kills Dany to protect … everyone.
That said, it seems probable D&D have nothing left of interest but soap opera drama of a dude killing his aunt and then going off to mope, Dexter style.
If Jon does kill Dany, it would be in some kind of self defense or in defense of his family. And then I can see him exiling himself to the far north out of guilt. If Arya ends up killing her, then I think there’s a chance Jon will rule, but he’d create some kind of council thing that rules by vote. I can’t see him sitting on the throne by himself.
I just want to say that there are a lot of spoilers out around disguised as theories. I’m not talking about this post specifically, but I’ve read a lot of comments on multiple platforms that point to someone knowing something.
With that being said, with 80 minutes to wrap this all up, I’m not expecting anything too deep. I lowered all of my expectations after episode 3.
I read the spoilers for the end last week (and won’t post them here, don’t worry) and wow, we think people have been pissed for the past two weeks? Wait until Sunday, y’all.
That being said, the outlandish (even before reading the spoilers) theories have been hilarious. People are so desperate, i think subconsciously they know where it’s going. 😬
I cant decide if I want to seek out spoilers or not. I think it may help me to process the ending lol, but I think my husband would kill me ha.
Where can I check the spoilers? At this point I don’t care anymore for the surprise effect
You can find spoilers on Reddit. r/freefolk has spoilers to this season’s episodes and they’ve been largely true. And yeah, the finale will piss a lot of people off. Though I do thank many will be perfectly fine with it or just feel grateful that it’s all over. I’ve made peace with it and while it wasn’t what I personally wanted, it has elements I expected.
I read the Reddit spoilers for last week, and they couldn’t have been more wrong! Gems such as Arya killing Cersei with Jaime’s face, Yara sneaking up on Euron to kill him, baby dragons, Arya being injured by the Mountain after killing Cersei and then rescued by the Hound, etc.- and I would have liked all of those things better than what we got!
@10KTurtle, you read the wrong spoilers. The spoilers I read before episode 4 (beheading of Milsande) have been on the money. Every single thing I read has come to fruition, I even saw her beheading long before the episode aired, so these spoilers are so true. They have been mentioned on this thread and it will be exactly as they said. I won’t mention the commenter’s name but like others have said, a lot of people with be pissed.
And Varys sent ravens, I would imagine all 7 Kingdoms know the truth by now so killing the handful that ‘know’ won’t help her
I can see Sansa doing the same as well.
She’s definitely going to kill Tyrion. I think he deserves it, but I wish it was for something better than releasing Jamie. (like I wish he had really gone out with a bang, kind of like Varys who tried to poison her, although that was also fairly disappointing for some reason.) And Tyrion knows she is going to kill him. The only thing about it that made me feel slightly bad was that part of the reason he released Jamie was to get him to ring the bells, thinking that would stop the slaughter (clearly Tyrion expected the slaughter.) But, at the same time – lordy Tyrion. Your character has not “aged” well so to speak on the show. you’re gonna die.
For the starks – I think at least one more Stark dies, and then one of the remaining starks kills her. I can see Arya trying to kill her, failing, Dany kills Arya, and then Jon knows that he has to kill Dany. I do think we are going to see one more “crazy” thing from Dany that will push Jon into killing her, and I think that’s going to be killing one of the Stark girls. I can also see Brienne dying trying to protect Sansa.
I’m going to be annoyed if we’re back at Winterfell, although I know that’s probably the most likely plot, since Sansa isn’t in KL.
I don’t think Greyworm would kill her. He’s on board with what she did to KL.
Yes, I think Arya dying kinda makes sense. I don’t see her just becoming an assassin for the sake of killing random people. She had a list, now the list is gone. Maybe she will travel to unknown lands. She doens’t want a normal life. Maybe if Sansa becomes queen (which I doubt) she will want be in the queensguard.
Yes I think Arya is a goner and that’s another reason for Jon to kill Dany. She told the Hound she didn’t plan on coming back to Winterfell, and I think she’s Jon’s favorite sibling, they’ve always had a special bond. I want her to live more than anyone though!
I read a theory that Arya will set sail to find what is further west than Westeros. She asked once what was beyond Westeros, I think she will live but become a wanderer. She has regained some humanity, but she is still so much changed she can’t really settle back into “normal” life.
Right now, the Stark house is at risk of extinction:
Jon Snow: Now a Targaryen
Arya Stark: Not a Lady/ Back to being asexual
Bran: Physically incapable
Sansa: ?
There’s no way the writers leave things this way, so I predict at least 1 match with one of the above to produce future Starks.
My guesses:
1) Jon + Sansa: After someone kills Daenerys, Jon is formally recognized as a Targaryen but immediately abdicates and marries Sansa. All or some of their kids are named Stark.
2) Sansa – Currently pregnant with Sandor’s baby after a night of passion, after which he decided it as time to fulfil his last wish and die. Sansa bears the baby for the Stark house and has it immediately legitimized by new ruler.
I’m still desperately counting on Gendry to win over Arya, so no Stark children there.
My guess is 2 is more likely than 1.
I almost said your #1 theory would never work. If Jon wouldn’t sleep with his aunt, then he surely won’t marry his cousin…who was raised as his sister. BUT…that is just the kind of thing these writers would ignore, so yeah…totally possible.
I would love your #2 theory to be true.
@ Turtledove
Everyone keeps saying this (he wouldn’t sleep with his aunt, so why his cousin)…..the thing is though, he’s never given a verbal explanation for his inability to be physical with Daenerys, so we all make the assumption that he’s repelled by their familial relationship.
What if the real reason is that another, much more powerful, latent attraction (for Sansa) took over as soon as it became viable? (Remember cousins are allowed to marry in Westeros – Sansa herself was even engaged to her cousin Robyn of the Vale; Tywin married his cousin etc).
His treatment of Daenerys reminds me of how he reacted to Melisandre when she came onto him at Castle Black. He kissed her back briefly, before abruptly pulling back and stating that he was still in love with Ygritte.
I think it’s possible he’s pulled away from Daenerys because he has now finally and consciously acknowledged his feelings for Sansa.
In any case, the future Stark generation HAS to come from somewhere.
Jon is still a Stark on his mother’s side.
OMG. Everyone thinks Arya is going to die!!? I just said up above that I no longer care, but damn, I do care about Arya. If this is the ending, I’ll be so sad.
Me, too. Arya is my favorite character, she’d better not die!!!
I actually wrote down some predictions last week, and one was that Jon would kill Dany, then refuse the throne and go north to be with Ghost and the Wildlings. And yes, as much as I want a wolf reunion, I based my prediction on Jon’s last conversation with Tormund at Winterfell. I thought, why else would the writers have Tormund tell Jon he belongs beyond the Wall? It’s a sign, right? Sadly, I’ve since come to realize that we can’t trust the writers to follow through on all the little clues they stick in the plot. Readers of the books know that signs/predictions matter. But not in the TV series.
In the end, I still think that Dany will die. I think either Jon or Arya will kill her. I have no idea who will be on the throne.
I do still care what happens. I know this season has been … uneven, to say the least. But episode 1 was fine and episode 2 was close to perfection. And once I finally accepted, wholeheartedly, that the writers weren’t going to take the time to develop the plot, I just went with it and ended up loving episode 5. I’ve never seen anything like it on TV. The acting, the directing, the visuals, the music … god, it was awesome.
the only thing good about this season is the music. it’s been sucking since season 7 when they were writing without the books to guide them. you could feel immediately it had jumped the shark. Season 8 has been the absolute worst and I periodically LOL at scenes for how bad they are, and what a parody of itself GoT has become. Mexican telenovela, Korean drama. Not to be taken seriously anymore. (except for the music).
I thought episode 2 was incredible, and I loved it, and its one of my favorites of the series. But I think with the battle of winterfell, I’m looking at it differently, and that annoys me. They tainted an amazing episode by following it with Jon screaming at a dragon.
Not sure why making terrible decisions and giving bad advice warrants the death penalty, but to each their own.
I think Tyrion will die, but it will be because Dany is now officially off the rails.
The writers had to find a way to finish this series out, and so characters are becoming who they were always meant to become at a rapid pace, which feels a bit out of character in some instances. Varys was suddenly openly talking about overthrowing Dany, something we have never seen before. Tyrion is suddenly not smart. Dany is showing who she was becoming. Cersei never made any good plans in the end. Jamie regressed.
The only person who seems to be on an upswing is Sansa. She seems to be getting smarter and playing the game better, when everyone else is suddenly not. I think should be a massive clue.
My guess is Dany goes for Sansa – not sure if she is able to kill her or not, but I think not. Jon and Arya now know exactly what Dany is capable, and know Sansa was right not to trust Dany. It would be a twist for me if Dany ends up surviving the episode. I think either Arya or John finish her. I know Dany’s eyes are supposed to be violet in the books, but these could be the green eyes Arya’s supposed to close.
Of the 3 starks, I would guess Arya has the worst odds of surviving. My prediction is that Sansa ends up in charge, but i have a thread of doubt in there now, too. A song of fire and ice seems to refer more to Jon. I’ll be disappointed if Jon ends up in charge, but hey, we don’t always get what we want.
I absolutely agree regarding Tyrion. He gave bad advice and tried to prevent the slaughter of INNOCENT people… (Ya know, the same people who have been crushed by the infamous wheel for centuries). Will Dany kill him? Who knows since nothing she does make sense anymore. Does he deserve it? Hell no.
The reactions to this show sometimes worry me regarding people’s moral compass 😁
Tyrion and Varys not only gave bad advice but actively betrayed her. Tyrion conspired to enable Cersei, who should answer for her crimes, to escape. They both deserve to die in that universe. Ned Stark and Jon Snow, two of the most honourable characters also executed traitors. But I saw an interesting theory on why Dany snapped at the bells. They were a test of Tyrion’s loyalty. Basically her spies told her he freed Jaime and told him to ring the bells and get Cersei out of the city. She didn’t want to believe the spies because it would mean Tyrion, her last Westerosi friend/advisor, had betrayed her. That’s why there was that long pause waiting for the bells. When the bells went off, she knew the spies report was true and completely flipped.
My initial comment was in reference to the author or the article’s reasons. Death sentence for treason makes more sense than “bad advice and decision-making.”
Varys was correct in his assessment of Dany going off the rails, and did what he thought he needed to do in order to prevent Dany claiming the throne. He knew she would kill him and he did the right thing anyway. I view his act as one of bravery to save the people, but I’m also not a Dany fan, so we may be looking at this from different angles.
On Tyrion, Dany threw it in his face Jaime was there. I actually thought the premise behind that was sketchy – he was theoretically on their side, why would they automatically assume he was trying to get to Cersei (even though he was)? There was an explanation gap there.
Your theory that she set the trap for Tyrion is certainly interesting, and compelling. And by telling Tyrion there, it would essentially be entrapment, and a test to determine his loyalty. I’m not sure the writers are clever enough to come up with this twist.
It is a tough moral conundrum – Jaime saved Tyrion’s life by setting a plan to get him out of King’s landing. Tyrion was repaying the favor. Like Varys, he knows this deed will cost him his life,and he did it anyway.
I tend to think she snapped because it is who she is, and always has been. She was always supposed to become this person. All of her advisors tried to hold back her baser instincts, but she hasn’t really trusted anyone in a very long time (for good reasons, and bad), and feels no compulsion to spare anything now. She is in a place where she is unloved, and that is really sinking in.
@Maude You mean Varys who a couple of seasons back encouraged her to take the throne with fire and blood? And supported the openly psychotic Viserys to take over Kings Landing with an army of uncontrollable Dothraki, before he got cancelled? Suddenly getting heeby jeebies at the idea of violence. Varys was very vocal about working in the interest of the realm, but his actions don’t always add up. What has she done up to that point to warrant his betrayal? He’s attempted to have her poisoned based on a hunch.
Tyrion was in a difficult position, which I think is the moral of Jaime’s arc. Too many conflicting oaths, you can’t help but break some.
Yeah, I think Varys’ complete betrayal would have made more sense AFTER she burned KL.
@anitas
Like I said, we’re viewing this from completely different viewpoints, and that is fine.
I perceive you are viewing it as a fan of Dany, and I view it as someone who is not a fan of Dany. I have felt they’ve shown (and repeatedly told us) adequately what she is capable of and what she has become.
Perhaps it is because I’m viewing it through a completely different lens, but I don’t think Varys or Tryion have been okay with her actions for a long time, hence their disloyalty. When they came to her, they left King’s Landing looking for something, anything, better than Cersei. They went to see what Dany was about, and decided to follow her based on her breaking of chains.
But, they have spent each of those seasons since they came to her discussing her temper and having discussions on how to rein in her temper and help her become a good ruler. They were aware of her shortcomings. They gave well intentioned (if not always good) advice – and she decided frequently to choose a more brutal option.
Through my lens, this is a natural progression – they got to know her, and see she is inhabiting the bad areas of her nature, the tyrannical areas, perhaps even the “mad/crazy” areas more and more, and as her behavior became more erratic, a viable option presented itself. And Jon Snow may be a lot of things, but he has been presented as honest and honorable the entire series, and he has an equal if not greater claim to the throne than Dany (in the context of the world they inhabit) .
I don’t fault Varys, who has proven to be shrewd through the course of the series for choosing someone he felt was a better option, and for making it known.
I just don’t view Dany through rose colored glasses. I have said this in other areas on these posts, but it is my opinion one of the major points of this series is that none of the viable players for the throne are actually fit to rule well. They all have fatal flaws.
Tyrion for sure betrayed Dany several times. His “bad advice” crossed the line into “aiding Cersie.” All of his advice to Dany was to protect Cersie. Even freeing Jamie wasn’t to help Jamie, but so Jamie can help Cersie escape. He didn’t tell Dany about the “leak” of Jon’s parentage, even though he KNEW Vary’s was looking for a way to get rid of Dany (what if Dany had eaten breakfast that morning? ). Tyrion’s plan to “starve the people” into surrendering? It was to protect Cersie. Because Tyrion KNEW Cersie would kill every last civilian if they looked like they were ready to revolt — and Tyrion KNEW about the wildfire in King’s Landing (which he didn’t tell Dany about), and that Cersie would blow up everyone in King’s Landing before she let Dany rule. Those poor saps in King’s Landing were goners no matter what, which Tyrion knew. And he even tried to stop Dany from attacking the LootTrain, when that was the PERFECT time to attack — the army was outside the city walls, and could be attacked without any civilian casualties. But he still tried to stop it. And it was his idiotic decision to capture an ice zombie, which lead to a dragon’s death. And the list goes on. I’m only surprised he wasn’t executed before this. The reason he lived this long makes me think the show will keep him alive until the end. Just like the show insisting Sansa is “really smart” now (despite her only saying dumb things). They are telegraphing the ending.
Would not mind Dany dispensing with Sansa. She’s become a Catelyn Stark/Littlefinger hybrid. Sadly I don’t think it’ll happen, she’s the only Stark who would run Winterfell.
My husband keeps muttering, “She’s just like her mother.” lol
I’m in the minority, I know, but I’d kind of like to see Sansa stick Dany with the pointy end.
I don’t think you’re in the minority at all, TheHeat. The lines have been drawn between Dany and Sansa stans, really since the first episode this season. I am firmly on the Sansa side, although I don’t necessarily mind Dany.
I’m definitely on the Sansa side.
Agreed. Sansa is “Cersie Lite” — half as smart, and half as evil. But give her time, and in 20 years she’ll be full Cersie. I can’t remember a time that Sansa EVER did ANYTHING that didn’t serve her own interests. She is one of the most selfish characters in the entire show, along the lines of Cersie and Littlefinger. At least Catelyn tried to help her children at great risk to herself. Sansa doesn’t even help her own family unless she thinks it would help HER, and she is perfectly willing to undermine her family to promote herself (and break an oath made in the Godswood, the most sacred place in Winterfell). But, the show has been telegraphing that Sansa will rule in the end (characters breaking the fourth wall to tell the audience, “She’s really smart now!”). So there’s no way they will kill her off.
Sansa is way smarter than Cersei. I don’t think that anything Cersei ever did was particularly smart. Ruthless, maybe. But this past episode was evidence enough. She squandered all of her goodwill, incensed Daenerys by killing Missandei, and got the mother of all curb-stomps courtesy of Dany and her dragon as a result. Also not following with your argument that Sansa is selfish. Every decision that she makes is about putting the North’s interest first, not her own.
Sansa only cares about Sansa. The biggest clues are (1) trying to undermine Jon in front of the other houses, risking the North losing EVERY LIFE to the undead army. (2) Lying to cover her Aunt’s murder in order to keep Littlefinger around to help her. (3) Power plays with Dany before the Night King arrives, even if it meant Dany taking her dragons and army home, letting every person in the North die. (4) Trying to take castles away from Northern child in retaliation against the kids’ fathers. (5) Sansa letting the most loyal Northern soldiers die battling Ramsey, rather than telling Jon crucial information about the Vale — she kept that info for herself for her own petty “power play” interests, and was perfectly willing to sacrifice the most loyal Northern houses to do it.
Again, the show TELLS us Sansa is smart. Maybe they try to tell us Sansa is loyal to the North. But Sansa’s own actions show that she is (1) dumb, and (2) only interested in her own benefit.
Hmm what if Cersei is alive by shielding Jamie’s body to save her from the rubble, then faces dany in a girl fight while jon still has that confused look watching lol.. didn’t bran see all this ? They should all just kick his ass later lol
I feel Sophie spoiled it by getting the tattoo “the pack survives”, but we will soon know.
Sansa is not a military strategist but she can read through people’s BS easily. Her bullshit detector radar went off everytime Dany opened her mouth, especially during the conversation when she tried to manipulate Sansa. Dany hates and is envious of Sansa because Sansa gets the respect and love and the loyalty that she pines for. And I don’t think Dany will fly to the North to kill her, she might summon Sansa like Aerys did to Brandon Stark. Arya might be caught in the assisination attempt and may be roasted or be used as a pawn to accuse Sansa of sending someone to assassinate her.
And pur-lease, Sansa did the right thing in breaking that vow because she was right about Dany being an untrustworthy power hungry bishh the whole time. Don’t blame anything on Sansa. Dany is a grown woman who is conveniently stripped of any agency when the chickens come home to roost. So much for a powerful character!! Jon shouldn’t have demanded secrecy because this was not about him not being Ned Stark’s son. It was him being the rightful heir to the Iron Throne. It is like asking secrecy from someone then revealing that the house they are standing is on fire and then insisting that they don’t call the fire fighters.
Agree totes, Udi.
Yes to all of this.
Dany’s positive acts are used to build her up, and her negative acts are always explained away as being someone else’s fault. Confirmation bias!
LOL at all this post.
Agree completely, Udi.
“she can read through people’s BS easily” —
This is from just a few episodes ago:
Sansa: “I don’t know if Littlefinger or Arya is betraying me.”
Sansa: “Everybody tells me not to trust Littlefinger, but I don’t know if it’s really my sister I can’t trust.”
Bran: “For f-ck’s sake, Sansa, it’s Littlefinger you can’t trust!”
Sansa: “But Littlefinger loved me in his own way.”
Yeah, great “BS” detector, LOL!
@Mrs. Krabapple:
Sansa is dumb as a bag of rocks. Can’t stand the character. Never could. Even her so called military accomplishments were never truly her. The one power move she did was bringing the Nights of the Vale to The Battle of the Bastards — and it was still a d*ck move not telling Jon Snoo about it.
Seriously, I like Cersei more than her.
And the b*tch is ungrateful. When the last of the Starks were reunited near that tree, she proclaimed Arya the “hero of Winterfell”.
AS IF Arya would have any chance to get close to The Night King hadn’t it been for the Unsullied, Dothraki and Daenerys knocking him off of zombie Viserion (leaving a bit more vulnerable).
P.S.: Even Arya shut her down and said they needed Daenerys’s armies and dragons.
EDIT (small correction):
“Even her so called military accomplishments were never truly herS.”
I think that act of Sansa’s (acting suspicious of Arya) was all a ruse to trick Littlefinger into thinking she bought his BS about Arya being his enemy. That’s how they were able to take him out finally.
Sansa certainly read Daenerys like a book. And she knew from the beginning of the season that Cersei wasn’t going to follow through on her promise. Even Tyrion was dumb enough to believe what his sister said. So no, Sansa isn’t as dumb as a box of rocks and I think she definitely has a good bullsh!t detector.
@Myrtle:
I wasn’t talking about that silly, poorly executed ruse to misdirect Littlefinger (last season).
I was talking about the small reunion “The last of the Starks” had AFTER The Battle of Winterfell — the one where Jon Blabbermouth spilled the beans to Sansa, Arya e Non-Bran near that tree.
In that small reunion, Sansa claims Arya is “the hero of Winterfell”. Arya immediately shuts her down by saying they DID need Daenerys, her armies and her dragons.
@Grant:
Let me rephrase what I said: Sansa isn’t dumb as a bag of rocks. She’s dumber.That’s how *I* perceive the character (and some of my book readers friends — I even asked one of them if she’s been always that idiotic spoiled brat, his answer was: “Since book one”).
We will have to agree to disagree — I know, that sucks, but you won’t convince me otherwise (nor I you).
Let’s leave it at that.
By the way, I NEVER said Cersei was smarter than her. I said I liked Cersei more than her.
I simply find Sansa incredibly obnoxious. Please, try not to take this personally.
Sansa disliked Dany before even meeting her, so that is NOT “b.s.” detector, that is petty jealousy. And the only reason dumb Sansa is still alive, is because Dany and Jon DIDN’T LISTEN TO SANSA.
Sansa: Jon, don’t go South to get dragonglass to fight the undead.
Sansa: Jon, don’t bring an army north, to help fight the undead.
Sansa: Dany, take your army and dragons and leave – don’t help us fight the undead.
Sansa: Jon, forget about fighting the undead, you have to worry about Cersie first!
Sansa (cowering in the crypts): I wish Dany never came here.
Sansa (after the battle): Wow, I’m a great leader!
Sansa’s fans: Wow, Sansa is so smart! Look at how she’s managed to survive the series! She’s really smart!
Everybody else: [rolls their eyes]
I always hate the Bran as the Night King theory. But at this point, I would love for that theory to be true, and have him raise the dead in King’s Landing. That will never, ever happen of course. But, it would save the season for me.
To kill Without seeming to be logical, but attacking the North might provoke a rebellion because half of his soldiers come from the North and Jon for save his sister will reveal who is the legitimate heir to the thrones because in the medieval time, a man will be slightly prefer to a woman.I would like Daenerys to be killed by her dragon, which is possible,because Bran in the books is able to take control of animals. He could take control of the Drogon and refused the orders of Daenerys.
I said same upthread about Bran worging into Drogon.
Jon will Dany and go north. I think Tormund foreshadowed that when he said Jon belonged north of the wall. I think tyrion will die but that makes me sad, I used to loved his character. I hope Sansa does not end up in charge. I do not think she deserves it and I have just never cared for her character. Her behavior in the first two episodes was weird. She knew Dany was basically her savior but treated her like crap. It was so bizarre and she could not seem to grasp what they were up against. And all of the sudden she is so smart, or at least that is what characters keep telling us.
I’m ok with the story that Dany goes crazy but not the way it was done. The show told us it was happening but never showed us.
I am just super bummed with the way this is turning out. I was so excited for this season and now I don’t even really care.
Sansa is and always has been the smartest one out of the lot. The shows did her a disservice by painting her as some simpering idiot but most teenagers are so that is okay. Sansa was basically a mini-hermione who knew extensively about history and house relations, she recognised Reply Batayein in one glance. And Sansa is not a warrior, in the book she is 11 and she is intelligent enough to play narcissists like Joeffrey. And as Alayne Payne in Vale she plays sweet robin and the rest like a pro. Sansa has always been smart and perceptive, she knows when to remain silent and that saved her all these years on an enemy turf. Arya would have been long dead had she been in her shoes. And let’s not forget Sansa attempted to murder Joeffrey after he put Ned’s head in a spike but the Hound stopped her.
Yes, in the show she is not depicted in this way.
How was Dany Sansa’s savior? I don’t understand this argument that Sansa and the rest of the North should be kissing Daenerys’s feet because she helped the Northmen take out their common enemy. If Dany didn’t step in and help fight the White Walkers, there would be no Seven Kingdoms for Dany to rule over.
Dany saved Sansa by not listening to Sansa. Sansa wanted Dany to take her army and her dragons, and leave, letting the North try to fight the Night King by themselves. Thank goodness smarter people saw how dumb that would have been. Jon also saved Sansa by not listening to Sansa (Sansa didn’t want Jon to try to get dragon glass to help fight the undead army).
Are we watching the same show, Mrs. Krabapple? Where are you getting that from? Sansa actually thanked Daenerys for coming and helping them out, something she absolutely did not need to do. It was in Dany’s interest to help stop the Night King. She wasn’t doing anyone any favors.
Apparently I’m watching the version of the show where Sansa tried to talk Jon out of getting dragon glass to fight the undead. And where Sansa disagreed with bringing Dany’s army to the North. And where Sansa b!tched at Dany about bringing the dragons because they eat too much. And where Sansa, cowering in the crypts, bad-mouthed Dany in front of Missandei. Did none of that happen in the version you watched?
Fun fact. GRRM was a writer for Beauty and the Beast (the Ron Pearlman/Linda Hamilton show). LH wanted to leave so they killed her character off. That caused the ratings to drop and yadayadayada. The whole experience influenced Game of Thrones where he could kill off popular characters and do things he couldn’t as a network TV writer.
Hotpie! And Drogon will be happy to learn how to help cooking with fire !
I saw a video posted a few days before episode 5 and it claimed to have gotten leaks from multiple sources at HBO. The intel was for the last 2 episodes and everything it said about the episode 5 was 100% true. It seems like they really did get corroborating sources and I think I know what is going to happen in the end. I can’t post the link, but video is from Looper and is called Game of Thrones Season 8 ending may have leaked.
There will always be a Stark in Winterfell.
Nothing to add except I’m still pissed at how they killed over Cersei. 8 seasons of being a epic villain and lioness for THAT ending. At this point I want her to come back as a zombie and take over everything.
Yes that was very disappointing, she deserved a horrible death and she’s the only one who got to die a nice death in the arms of the one she loved, not fair! Lol, but not surprising since this show rarely gives us what we want.
I can’t believe all the fun people made of Sansa for “breaking her promise”. Sansa doesn’t like Danaerus and doesn’t want her to rule over the North: what better tool against Dani than the knowledge that she’s not even the legitimate heir?? Sansa’d be an idiot to keep that secret, and if anyone was an untrustworthy blabbermouth in this situation, it was Jon!! (But the woman is the one made fun of, sure..) It made Dani look very, very bad that she’s so threatened by the TRUTH; she learns she’s not the legitimate heir and wants to smother the truth for her own ambition. Never trust any ruler who is afraid or distorts the truth. (Ahem..).
It was fundamentally wrong to ask Jon to keep his parentage a secret. If she loved him as an equal and respected him for what he’s done, for what he could do, she would have proposed a way for them to rule together, or even just in one house like Henry Tudor and Elizabeth of York.
Instead, she did all this.
Jon and Dany demanded Sansa’s allegiance to Dany on the basis of Daenerys being the only true heir. It is ridiculous and simplistic to expect Sansa to bow to that once Jon took away the only reason for Sansa to acquiesce.
Which is honestly how all of them felt. Varys and Tyrion too. They chose Daenerys primarily because they believed her to be the rightful heir.
Then she wasn’t and demanded fealty anyway.
That made her a tyrant even before she burned King’s Landing
That’s what I was saying yesterday!
The Seven Kingdoms were conquered by the Targaryens, hundreds of years later people got rid of them and crowned someone else. Daenerys didn’t undertand this when Tarly refused to kneel: the truth is neither her nor Jon have a rightful claim to the throne. They can force themselves, conquer and be usurpers but the Seven Kingdoms were done with their family ruling.
Agree completely, Nikki.
I hope Dany kills them all, lol. I don’t even care about any of the humans anymore. I’m good as long as Drogon lives, lol. I need to reread the books. D&D dumbed everybody down on the show to ridiculous levels simply to advance the plot of their faves. I miss book Jon, book Tyrion, etc. I don’t even recognize any of the characters anymore on the show.
@Patty:
Same here. At this point, I just want Daenerys to obliterate everything.
As for the theory that we’ll end with at least one more dead Stark…please, please, PLEASE, let it be Sansa.
I’ve loathed the character since season one, episode one.
Yeah, same here. With a few exceptions (like Davos, Jon, Hot Pie, Sam, Gilly), the humans on this show are the worst. If they’re not dumb, they’re evil, and most of them are dumb and evil. Years ago when I had no idea where the show was headed, I thought the Dragons and Dire Wolves should work together to wipe out the humans, then come to some sort of “peace” agreement with the undead. I knew it was ridiculous, but . . . now I kind wish it could have ended that way.
@Mrs. Krabapple:
That’s why my favourite character was/is The Night King — he had no double standards.
Like death itself, he was coming for everybody.
Agree
Yeah, she’s not going to get Sansa. Sansa was the first person to see Daenerys for what she was and I have no doubt in my mind that Sansa has some kind of contingency plan in place. She told Tyrion because she knew it would set into motion exactly what it did set into motion. And let’s be real; the only thing Jon has demonstrated time and time again is poor leadership, strategy, and naivete. If it wasn’t for Sansa, he would have died at the Battle of the Bastards and she would have stayed married to a sadist. I think Sansa’s definitely one of the sharper tools in the shed on this show (not that that’s saying much)…
“If it wasn’t for Sansa, he would have died at the Battle of the Bastards’ – God, not this b.s. again. Many men died unnecessarily at the Battle of the Bastard because Sansa was lying to Jon and withholding information. If Jon sent for the Vale earlier, many deaths could have been avoided – but he couldn’t because Sansa kept that info to herself as part of some dumb power-play. She has shown to be very Cersie-like in that she doesn’t care who she sacrifices for her own political gain. And she’s dumb. Like, really dumb. How much do dragons eat? The answer is “who cares” because without them everyone would be dead, and dead people don’t need food. But Northerners seem to be especially dim-witted on the show, so giving Sansa her due, she probably is one of the smarter Northerners, which again is not saying much.
Did Sansa do something to you, Mrs. Krabapple? You seem to really have it out for this fictitious character. Many more men would have died at the Battle of the Bastards if Sansa hadn’t stepped in; she likely didn’t tell Jon because she knew that he would try and interfere and had he done that, they would have lost. How is asking about how much dragons eat dumb? She seems to be the only one thinking about these logistical issues. Might be helpful to know how much food she needs to keep on hand. I imagine that most people in Westeros have never encountered a dragon before. Given that Sansa is providing their food, room, and board, might be kind of helpful to know how much to ration, don’t you think?
No, I think all the remaining Starks will survive. And I also believe Arya will never go back to being No One. Through the whole season, she ended up choosing life pretty much every time. She has shown and felt more emotions than ever before. I think that’s what Maisie Williams was talking about when she said Arya would be feeling “torn” this season.
I think Dany made the statement she needed to make and there’s no need to harm anyone else. If I were her, I’d leave Kings Landing as is as a reminder…maybe rename it to District 13. I dont really see the need for further violence. There was enough emotion in 8.5 that a lot of the characters should be coming to terms with who they really are and dealing with the fallout of that. Dany saved Westeros from Ice just to threaten it with Fire. Jon removed a tyrant Queen and replaced her with another which is kind of funny because if you just left Cersei alone, everything would probably continue running kind of okish. She was only ever really a monster when her power was threatened otherwise she was just a smug bitch that lived in a castle thousands of miles away. Arya’s not a killing machine and Sansa, for all her strength, is still fearful of the nature of power. If you really want to stick it to Dany though, have her try to use Drogon to burn Jon … and then watch as he survives, like a true dragon would and that would be an arrow through her image of power.
I think Gendry will end up on the throne. There is no other reason for her to suddenly title and unbastard/debastard him. Still bugs me why she did that.
She did it to try and secure his loyalty. Her assumption is that he will support her, since she gave him legitimacy and a title.
She also likely wanted to leave the ancestral seat of her family to someone who has no expectations of a legitimate claim to anything.
Gendry and Davos are pretty much the only characters without a grounding in a house allegiance, without an expectation or tie to any throne. Brienne has less of over than others but she’s firmly declared for House Stark. Bronn is similar but he’s tied his fate to House Lannister. The only service worthy of reward he could privide her now is to kill Tyrion but she wouldn’t give him Highgarden for it. She has no reason to respect him that highly.
Daenerys would want at least one house loyal and greatful to her alone.
Exactly.
Ah, I see. Thanks for the info you two.
At this point the only thing i want is for Tyrion to die. He has proved that he will always be a lannister, no matter what they do.
After the Long Night I am done with theories. Whatever happens, happens.
But I do wish Jon will go North, find Ghost only for Ghost to bite his hand off then lick Jon’s face as if he forgives him for being a dick for not saying good-bye.
My predictions are that Dany will want to kill Tyrion in KL but he took the boat left for his siblings. Dany will then head north to torch the Stark fam because they know Jon has a better claim. She will have Drogon breath fire on Jon but he won’t burn & it is proof of his lineage for everyone to see. The Free Folk are still at Winterfell & they will fight to protect the Starks. Arya will kill Drogon & maybe Greyworm. Jon will kill Dany and demolish the monarchy. He will form a Senate with Tyrion:House Lannister, Sansa: House Stark, Sam: House Tarly, Gendry: House Baratheon, Asha: House Greyjoy. Bronn gets Highgarden & Davos gets Riverrun. Jon will go North & dissapear. Maybe Bran will go too and find a tree to roost in.
I would be hella satisfied if this is what we get.
But we won’t.
Also, these people have to start having babies. What are houses without heirs?
I like this idea but there is still a Tully at Riverrun, Edmure Tully survived and is, presumably, restored as the Lord of Riverrun. If Jon survives, Davos will probably be his Hand.
@Jaylee
This ending would be so satisfying.
Love this ending. Doubt we are getting it…but I love it.
I like your theory! Could happen, who knows?
If Jon kills Daenarys, he’ll go North and take the black again. I know the Night’s Watch are for all intents and purposes disbanded, but I could see he re-creating it and living out his days North of the Wall.
I think the “green eyes” Arya kills belong to Drogon.
GRRM’s wife Parris McBride has told him that if he kills off Arya and Sansa, she’ll leave him. So I can’t really imagine that when he and the show runners had their multi-day story conference at his and Parris’s Santa Fe home a few seasons back to discuss how the story should play out after running out of completed books to work from, that he was like, “Yeah, so, my vision of the story has Dany flying up to Winterfell to kill Sansa at the end.”
At this point I only want Dany on the throne and goodbye to everybody LOL
I’m just upset there’s no baby. Jon gave a not so subtle hint of foreshadowing about Dany trying again and that went nowhere
I unfortunately believe I know how it ends based on a #GOT spoiler that turned out to an actual leak of the last 4 episodes. So far they’ve been right so I can only assume what they predicted for the ending is accurate. Without ruining anything all I can say is that I am about as happy with the ending as I was with the way Cersei died (not at all).
Could you post a link to it, please?
I mean, if I’m going to be angry anyway, I’d better get pissed off right now and somehow manage to get used to it.
Moreover, I hate surprises.
Please just google or look on reddit, this is not a place where people expect to see spoilers and it’s not fair for those of us who like surprises and waited years for this ending.
@Jess:
I asked for the link, not for the direct spoilers. Honestly, a link to a thread is only a spoiler if someone clicks on it.
And I HAVE searched for these Reddit threads, just couldn’t find a reliable one.
Sheesh!…
P.S.: And you’re wrong, people expect to find spoilers here. It says RIGHT THERE under the banner picture:
“SPOILERS for Game of Thrones.”.
Sorry Eve, I doubt I’ll find it because it was on twitter a few weeks ago. I had followed the #GOTSpoiler hashtag and it was someone’s response to a tweet. I too had heard something about Reddit threads and never found one that was even useful. I’ll go back to see if I can get to it and post the tweet so that way people can look it up or not. Not sure I’ll find it but I’ll try.
It’s ok, @Me.
I found one thread that seemed very plausible (unfortunately). If what I’ve read is confirmed, it’ll really make my blood boil.
Thank you anyway, dear.
Hi Eve – I had posted it but it didn’t make it out of moderation.
Try finding tweets from @ archykell that’s who had posted it.
@Me:
Ok. Thanks again!
😙
how is the iron throne not destroyed?
Dragon will melt down the throne and no one will be king or queen of Westeros. Dani will die somehow, and the people will rise up and create a worker-owned democratic socialist republic. Bran Stark will be elected president and he will be a kind of Franklin Delano Roosevelt sort of ruler. No more bowls of brown— Just a WPA, all kinds of art and restoration projects, free schools, and a solid social security system.
Up North, Sansa will rule Westeros and she and Brienne will fall madly in love and raise some dire wolves together. Jon will realize how much he misses Ghost and will go North to make it up to the good boy.
Arya will shack up with Yara for awhile, but will be too much of a free spirit to settle down, and will have her own spin off.
Dany loses all that she has fought to win, is betrayed by everyone she trusts, and the coup de grace is delivered by her boyfriend. Jon kills her.
Ladies, put your ambitions first….don’t put your hopes and goals on the backburner!!
Olenna told Dany to “BE A DRAGON” and I wish Dany had heeded the advice.