Taylor Swift has an epic new interview in the Guardian, and it’s so good that I’m splitting up the quotes into two posts, because there are so many interesting pieces we need to discuss. Incidentally, THIS is what I’ve been hoping for for years now. Basically, ever since “the receipts,” I’ve been waiting to see how, when and where Taylor would really start to talk about all of it, from her publicly apolitical stance in the 2016 election to the actual “receipts” to the Tom Hiddleston summer romance and more. The Hiddleston romance is mentioned by the Guardian writer but Taylor doesn’t mention his name. Instead, she makes repeated references to how she basically had some kind of breakdown in 2016. Here are highlights from Part 1 of Taylor’s Guardian interview:
Her relationship with Joe Alwyn: “I’ve learned that if I do, people think it’s up for discussion, and our relationship isn’t up for discussion,. If you and I were having a glass of wine right now, we’d be talking about it – but it’s just that it goes out into the world. That’s where the boundary is, and that’s where my life has become manageable. I really want to keep it feeling manageable.”
Whether she’s lacked self-awareness in 2015/16: “I definitely think that sometimes you don’t realise how you’re being perceived. Pop music can feel like it’s The Hunger Games, and like we’re gladiators. And you can really lose focus of the fact that that’s how it feels because that’s how a lot of stan [fan] Twitter and tabloids and blogs make it seem – the overanalysing of everything makes it feel really intense.”
The way she burned bridges in 2016: “I didn’t realise it was like a classic overthrow of someone in power – where you didn’t realise the whispers behind your back, you didn’t realise the chain reaction of events that was going to make everything fall apart at the exact, perfect time for it to fall apart.”
On those “receipts”: She didn’t really respond though she “definitely” could have. She wrote “a think-piece a day that I knew I would never publish: the stuff I would say, and the different facets of the situation that nobody knew”. If she could exonerate herself, why didn’t she? She leans forward. “Here’s why,” she says conspiratorially. “Because when people are in a hate frenzy and they find something to mutually hate together, it bonds them. And anything you say is in an echo chamber of mockery.”
On being gaslighted/gaslit: “I’m kinda used to being gaslit by now. And I think it happens to women so often that, as we get older and see how the world works, we’re able to see through what is gaslighting.”
On white privilege: She came to understand “a lot about how my privilege allowed me to not have to learn about white privilege. I didn’t know about it as a kid, and that is privilege itself, you know? And that’s something that I’m still trying to educate myself on every day. How can I see where people are coming from, and understand the pain that comes with the history of our world?”
She was never alone with Harvey Weinstein: “He’d call my management and be like, ‘Does she have a song for this film?’ And I’d be like, ‘Here it is.’ And then I’d be at the Golden Globes. I absolutely never hung out. And I would get a vibe – I would never vouch for him. I believe women who come forward, I believe victims who come forward, I believe men who come forward.” She says Weinstein never propositioned her. “If you listen to the stories, he picked people who were vulnerable, in his opinion. It seemed like it was a power thing. So, to me, that doesn’t say anything – that I wasn’t in that situation.”
In case you haven’t read the full Guardian piece, please do because it’s a good read. It’s also obvious that Taylor has recently learned about “gaslighting” and much like the time she learned about feminism, she’s making gaslighting her new thing and it’s all about her! We’re all gaslighting her. The public gaslights pop stars… or women in general. Or maybe just Taylor! I mean, there’s an argument to be made that women have been gaslighted for millennia, but… Taylor can’t see past her own nose, kind of.
It’s also clear that 2016 was the before/after year for Taylor, and I agree with that – there is Taylor’s career and persona before 2016, and then there’s her career and persona after 2016. It’s not just the receipts, it was the confluence of everything. The receipts, the Hiddleston relationship, meeting Joe, the end of the Calvin Harris thing, the end of the performative squad-ing, the last Taymerica party, and on and on.
What else? I don’t hate her answer about white privilege, because she’s right – most white people don’t really understand their privilege until they get older, until they see how other people are treated differently, until they get called out for being clueless and in their own little white-person bubble. The one thing I hate about her answer is that she was only talking about the Nicki Minaj incident, when Minaj criticized the VMAs and Taylor chimed in. Taylor will only discuss her white privilege in that context, not in any other. Part 2 is about Taylor’s politics!
Photos courtesy of Backgrid and Avalon Red.
She’s never going to talk about how she’s used her white privileged for gain – which she has, and that’s disappointing.
That said, good for her for bringing this message to the masses. I kind of wish she’d done it for Vogue and not the guardian.
People will use their white privilege for gain, just like anyone with any other kind of privilege. The bad part is not acknowledging the roll that your privilege has played and making out that it’s all your own work and an equal opportunities situation.
I don’t care if she bought her deal or whatever. she obviously knows how to win people’s affection and she’s been doing it for years now. I think her music is so overrated and that’s why I admire her success and the love of her fans even more. she’s not that great, but knows how to relate to ppl, I guess.
what I really loved about her was that she was a singer who was telling stories and was not endorsing anybody, wasn’t talking pro or against any politician, wasn’t talking about gays or straights or trans people or abortions or social justice. she was just taylor with a guitar talking about her crushes. now she’s ruined for me. she’s like literally every celebrity now. why do celebrities talk about all that for god’s sake? you’re a singer or an actor or a tv host, not a politician, not a sociologist. I hate that.
@horseandhound Seriously? Maybe celebrities talk about social issues because they have a giant microphone and audience that they financially benefit from, and they want to use that voice to support people who don’t have a platform… Because it’s the right thing to do. You’d have to be very privileged and insulated to not see the need for it.
I mean…they are humans also living in the world, so they will have opinions and have the right to share that opinion just like everyone else.
I am not sure why people clamor for specific celebrities to speak about stuff, but I talk about political beliefs and opinions and I’m not a politician or a sociologist. But politics still affect me and the people I care about. You can’t only have politicians care about politics! What a bizarre thought.
And yet there are so many here who are angry at her for not having been politically active from the inception of her career.
It’s almost like she can’t win.
To be fair @Kitten, I don’t think stating you would have supported Hillary, 3 years after the election counts as political activism. Taylor is one of the few huge celebs that has yet to use her platform in any meaningful way, and her tacit acknowledgement of that just isn’t impressive to many of us.
But you’re proving my point. The OP is critical of her for doing what she perceives to be too much and you and others are critical for what you percieve as having not done enough.
I don’t blame celebrities for not using their platform to engage in political activism TBH because it seems like it usually results in them being targeted on all sides by people who are critical of their opinions.
Look what happened when Cardi B threw her support behind Bernie Sanders. People on both the left and right came for her in droves. Then the news cycle focused on Cardi and not the important aspects of Sanders’s platform that she hoped to amplify. Even Anne Hathaway has had to shut off her comment section when she writes anything even vaguely political.
And before people accuse me of being a Swfity (as is apt to happen around here) I am 40 years old FFS. I don’t care about Taylor Swift other than I find the criticisms tiring from time-to-time. Plenty of it is fair but plenty of it is not TBH.
@Kitten Personally, I get that having a platform comes with critique, but I am of the opinion that it is irresponsible to have a huge platform, microphone, and all of the privilege in the world and only use it for personal, financial gain. Celebrity activism has become so mainstream and serious career ramifications are super rare. I just had
a look and the social media/internet response to Taylor’s basic, hardly political interview has been glowing, even Fox news covered it nicely and her album seems to be doing very well. Even in this thread, there is literally only 1 person that has said they would rather she stay out of politics. Now, I am not denying that there are people who get mad when celebrities get involved in politics, I just think they are in the minority and that the responsibility outweighs the supposed risk. I don’t think she needs to become some radical socialist activist, but it’s not to much to ask to denounce the racists that support her and support a presidential candidate. Also, just to add, Cardi’s interview has been seen millions of times so I would consider that pretty effective activism!
@Pixie, 1. I think they’re not doing it out of the kindness of their heart, but because they want to gain something from it and the easiest way is to endorse what everybody’s endorsing now and what’s trending now.
2. I don’t think they know enough about things and those are some serious issues so I think many times they hurt more than they help.
3. rich and famous are the most privileged ones and want to alleviate their guilt. which I don’t think they should be doing, but okay.
4. rich and famous are so privileged that they are living in a completely different world than the most of the people and they are so far from ‘the real world’ that it’s easy for them to be idealistic and promote utopia because they don’t know or don’t care about the nuances.
5. I really like art and entertainment and wish to enjoy that without the taste of politics.
I don’t know where you’ve been horseandhound but arts & entertainment and politics have been intertwined since… well the beginning of time. So many art exhibitions are about issues that have been politicized: racism, immigration, the LGBT community, poverty, and the list goes on. So many movies, books, plays, TV shows, documentaries, dances, and songs center around “political” themes. And a lot of these people who create these kinds of works aren’t necessarily rich or privileged. So please, gimme a break.
‘It’s almost like she can’t win.’
Yes. That’s Taylor. One of life’s losers.
I was pretty impressed with this interview. You can tell she feels that after 2016, she’s just going to say and feel whatever she wants. I’m still not crazy about how she spins some of the narratives (I can’t get over her claiming that the Katy thing was the media pitting women against each other), but she seems to have grown up a little.
Yeah, that’s pretty much where I am with her. I think it’s a positive change in the right direction, but she still needs to cook a little more.
I mean, the goal here is for people to change, right? While I don’t think they deserve an award for starting to get up to speed with the things other people have been saying… it’s a good thing when they do.
Some thoughts:
Great gown…..Beautiful Gowns.
She is still playing the victim. she is just using buzzwords and speaking in general to cover it up. And yet, I don’t think she is pandering to a new audience. She is a capitalist, but I think she is being somewhat genuine here.
She spends a lot of time in this interview talking in circles.
I will give a small amount of credit for saying what she is saying. Most of her fans are white and her talking about white privilege gives it credence. White people only really listen to other white people and not the black and brown people who work hard to stop oppression. She is sticking her neck out knowing that some of her magat fans and white people who enable those magats could turn on her in a fragile white rage. She is no freedom fighter but she is helping the cause in the only way this self absorbed woman child can do. I hope she continues her education.
YES. Talking about white privilege is *exactly* what white people should be doing! So other white people can hear it. Educating is a useful thing to do. I hope she keeps it up and moves forward. Some folks need to be ‘splained.
Tay talks in circles & seems very calculating with every word she speaks. Tay’s glitter sequin shorts wardrobe bothers me more than her pretentious drivel.
THIS. I don’t feel like she answered any of those questions. That was all a dance.
I believe that she never gave her permission for the b word, and especially for that horrid video where he put her in bed with trump. I don’t really understand why people pretend otherwise.
No one is saying she agreed to the b word. But that’s not what she originally said. At first she lied and said she never heard the song. Then, she lied again and said she did hear the song…but advised against it. Made her Grammy speech about how men try to take away credit. Those tapes are not so heavily edited where they manufactured her agreeing with Kanye, letting him know to speak his truth about “making her famous’. She lied, and honestly feel like she gaslit a black man, and people believed her because she’s a white woman. It’s not a good look. And it doesn’t mean we all think Kanye is an angel.
Lesson number 1: White women are always right, even when their own words prove that they are lying.
I believe Taylor. I’m sorry if that upsets you and your agenda. But I do. You throw your lot in with Kimmie. Ride that train. I’ll stay in this station. Thanks.
I’m a black woman. I’d walk a thousand mile before riding on any train with Kanye West (remember what he said about Amber?) and Kim K who has built an entire career out of cultural appropriation.
I will stay when I feel the safest, with my fellow black b*tches, far, very far away from lying white women and sexist black men.
I don’t buy that her upset was about the word bitch. She uses the word herself and she’s talked about loving a lot of music that uses the word in a much more hateful, ugly way than Kanye uses it in that song, so she’s not opposed to it on principle. When she called out Kanye she didn’t reference being called a bitch. The focus of her ire was the ‘made her famous’ bit, which we now know she enthusiastically encouraged. She only tried to claim the bitch line was the issue when the recording came out and it was the one part not on there. Before that she was saying her issue was all about the parts she told Kanye she was cool with.
The Famous video was made and released after she spoke out and after her famous Grammy speech calling out Kanye. It’s a gross video and she’d have been entirely justified in calling that out, but it didn’t exist when she started lying about her interactions with Kanye, so it wasn’t a factor in her decision making there.
YES! to this whole comment. And how one of her original statements was that she cautioned him not to release such a misogynistic song – no, she didn’t, and that’s why she threatened Kim with lawyers when Kim mentioned she had the video.
@JulieCarr – I use the word bitch myself, to refer to myself and some of my girlfriends, but it is always in a wink-wink-nudge-nudge way, where we are all on the same wavelength. A man calling me a bitch does NOT come across the same way at all – there is a different vibe and history – and I would be very unhappy with that.
I’m not wading into the whole sequence of events and what happened when – all I am saying is that a woman can use the word bitch, but it is not the same when a man uses it. I think it is a valid complaint.
While I doubt she had much of a defense for the Kanye/Kim receipts, she’s not wrong about the bonding echo chamber of derision…
Agree. I think she didn’t really had an explanation to give and whatever she could have come up with, would have made it worse.
The defense is right in the article. Kim’s tapes were heavily edited. Taylor agreed with the “I still think taylor and I might have sex” line, but not the b line and she certainly never agreed for him to make a creepy mannequin out of her and pose her in bed with men. Like, what is so hard to understand about this? What is so hard to believe about this? It’s actually really obvious, and I definitely believe her because what woman, other than KIM, would agree to something creepy like that?
The video and the song are separate things and no one has ever tried to claim that Taylor approved the video, which I agree was gross.
She specifically references how many albums she had sold yet Kanye not knowing who she was – so he played her some version of the song that referenced him making her famous, and she was fine with it. But then at the Grammys she went on about people trying to take credit for your fame.
I don’t doubt that she didn’t love being called a b, and I think the video was disgusting, but she also handled that really poorly and did appear to lie based on the video and her public statements. Shrug.
I feel the same way. Anything she would have said to explain or defend herself would have just taken it down a steep and winding road. On a side note, the way Tom H. treated her ticked me off. It seemed like an older guy making a woman feel like there was so much more to the relationship when there really was not. I lost tons of respect for Hiddles that year. He has yet to gain it back.
I don’t buy anything she sells, whether it’s music or faux “woke” interview. Her new era sure is interesting isn’t it? This interview, black love interest in her music video, even a biracial daughter…
WORD.
Yeah, it comes across as pandering it’s almost like she waited a very long time, just to be “sure” that being “progressive” was not a fad. Once she became totally sure, now she’s interested in being woke, lest she lose a few dollars and fans before.
So…does this mean she will stop culturally appropriating or nah?
And she’s STILL painting herself as the victim in the “receipts” debacle. So…yeah. Girlfriend still has a LOT of growing up to do.
Being a victim has been a huge part of her identity since she really hit it big on the mainstream scene, since that night at the VMA.
She is the victim of Kim and Kanye and Katy and J. Mayer and Hiddleston and Calvis and the media and the Golden Globes hosts …. The funny thing is that she is quite the bully herself. Her decade long vendetta against K. Perry and the songs she wrote about that critic and C.Belle are proof of her true nature. A very ugly one.
Taylor was so traumatized by this mean, big, black man and his wife using HER OWN WORDS against her that she couldn’t speak against white supremacy. That’s her defense, or at least, part of it. Please Lord, if reincarnation is real, let me come back as a somehow pretty white woman so I can get away with every BS on earth.
LOL I always say if reincarnation is real I want to come back as a rich white guy (a cute one) because the world is truly theirs…at least that’s how it seems.
+1
Don’t forget to ask for rich while you’re at it!
Lest you end up as a stripper or a beauty contest also-ran.
Looks aren’t the only advantage in life.
This is the kind of stuff I expect white people to know and acknowledge as teenagers and as a public statement it would have made way more sense in 2014/2015 when Trump’s racist rhetoric was promoted all across international media. This sociology 101 stuff doesn’t impress me, and I would be very surprised if it impressed any person of colour, to be honest. Nonetheless, I am sure white people far and wide appreciate knowing it’s simply their ‘privilege’ which lead to their ignorance when it’s actually more like internalised racism. Many of us have class privilege, which nobody would ever dream of denying yet when it comes to racism it is seen as a normal part of adulthood to ignore and deny white privilege. It’s not normal, it’s racist and you don’t get a cookie for acknowledging white privilege at 29 years old (to promote an album, no less).
Slow applause.
And Tay-Tay is often coddled and infantilized, compared to black kids who are adult from the moment they leave the maternity ward, that I was taken aback by your comment about her age but she really is almost 30 and she has just discovered white privilege. And I’m supposed to be impressed?
I used to say the bar was low for white folks but actually, there is no bar anymore.
Honestly, the bar must be underground because I can’t see it. Who needs enemies with allies like this? lol
As a person of color I can confirm it does not. I see a lot of white folks on the thread giving her a round of applause but I will pass. None of what she talked about are new concepts that were invented in 2016. To me Tay sounds like a bunch of other white women did post 2016 election. I’m not impressed that now that it’s 2019 and she has an album to promote she wants to be “woke”.
@pixie YES to everything in this comment. I see a lot of liberal white women giving Taylor a pass for her silence during a time when our rights were publicly under attack by a highly popular POTUS candidate and his followers. It’s probably because Taylor represents a lot to white women. She’s the biggest popstar and a stellar business person. There aren’t many women in her position. She’s somebody they want to root for because they see themselves in her. That’s probably why it’s hard for them to be critical of her shortcomings, even during the rare times when they don’t agree with Taylor’s actions. Meanwhile, fewer WOC see themselves in Taylor, because the way she’s wielded her privilege in the past has been actively harmful to us on a structural level.
We still need Taylor’s influence and allyship, and I’m glad she’s doing more now. But to see her actions now being used as a shield against justified criticism about her political inactivity then…to be told Taylor “can’t win” when she’s rightfully criticized for being late to the table, all the while being painted as her hater and unsupportive of other women for pointing it out, really sucks.
Bless her heart, as we say here in the south. 😋
I was in Target Friday and the teens and tweens and even college age females were swarming the racks where her new cd was put. Dear lord. I was just gobsmacked.
The oohing and the omg’s was amusing.
She will never understand what white privilege truly is.
Bless her heart, as we say here in the south. 😋
I was in Target Friday and the teens and tweens and even college age females were swarming the racks where her new cd was put. Dear lord. I was just gobsmacked.
The oohing and the omg’s was amusing.
She will never understand what white privilege truly is.
Yep. White privilege is being this mediocre, to be nice, and still being one of the most famous, if not the most famous, pop star in the world.
I used to be a Taylor fan. But her ways and the Kimye receipts and how she threw Calvin under the bus (i dont even like him) and her treatment of Nicki and the way she was only parading white, skinny, rich girls as the epitome of feminism just worked to turn me off. Her music is still lovely and i enjoyed her recent album, listening to it on youtube when it was released. Juvenile lyrics ofcourse but we know her target audience is teen girls dreaming of Prince charming. What i dont like about Taylor in this interview and in her evolution is just the way she picks the newest thing to be “woke” about and then thats who she’ll be…if its convenient for her. Like when people said she had no black friends in her squad and her Taymerica parties, suddenly she got Serena and Todrick. Taylor only got political after her contract ended so it is true that in a way it was abt the bottomline for her. She was, as she said, instructed not to get political, so she shouldnt hide behind “i was breaking down” or whatever. Taylors next plan, for her next album, i predict, will be, shes finally open to talking abt mental health, and soon she’ll be hanging with the Duchess of Sussex to discuss that…then shell be chasing to be honored by the Queen as a Dame. Im not even joking guys. Shes so thirsty and she bores me.
I like what she said about Harvey and how just because he didn’t hit on her doesn’t mean he isn’t an abuser. Because she already had power and didn’t need him, she’s an unlikely target. Taylor is a great advocate when it comes to sexual assault, and yeah, could probably use some work on politics and privilege.
Oh
To me, it really doesn’t matter what she says tbh. She’ll always be a “mean girl”, the Regina George of the music world. She threw Tom Hiddleston under the bus, was mean to Katy Perry, her very public and nasty battle with Kim and Kanye etc. I just don’t care for her shenanigans.
I just read the Guardian interview, and one thing I’m wondering about, when the interviewer and Taylor start discussing the 2016 Kanye incident, the interviewer mentions the “heavily edited” footage released by Kim Kardashian. I personally don’t recall hearing anything about that footage being edited, heavily OR lightly. Does anybody know if this is true? Or is this just the interviewer currying favor with Taylor? (wouldn’t surprise me) One thing that continues to amaze me is that to this day, in regards to 2016 and Kanye, Taylor REFUSES TO ADMIT THAT SHE DID ANYTHING WRONG. Staunchly refuses. I would have SO much more respect for her if she would admit that she was wrong in that situation, and she’s sorry. In the interview Taylor states that she wrote think pieces every day just for herself detailing all the aspects that no one knew about that could totally exonerate her, but never made them public because something something everybody was bonding in their hatred of her something something. At THIS POINT, I fully believe that if their were details about the situation not public knowledge at the time that would TOTALLY INDISPUTABLY show that she was NOT in the wrong, she would ABSOLUTELY be revealing them in this interview. If not earlier. She even says that she never published her “think pieces” because everyone hated her and they would have just been mocked. But certainly that is not the case today?? So why not make these details public?? I don’t know why she can’t just admit that she was wrong.
I grew up in the south. You know where I learned about “white privilege”? COLLEGE. Taylor is uneducated, period. She is a perfect example of why education is so important, even if you don’t need it for your career.
I just can’t, I’m sorry.
sorry not sorry
“Taylor has learned about gas lighting.” I think she’s learned it just in time for a new album cycle!
“Because when people are in a hate frenzy and they find something to mutually hate together, it bonds them. And anything you say is in an echo chamber of mockery.”
She’s not wrong. Words to live by.
Now, not taking a public stance agains Trump in fraught 2016? Unforgivable.