Virginia Roberts Giuffre’s Panorama interview aired last night in the UK. I saw some conversation about it amongst royal reporters online, but it didn’t seem to be the dominant conversation, which is what happened with Prince Andrew’s catastrophic interview two weeks ago. It’s my hope that people saw Virginia’s interview and simply believed her, because her story makes perfect sense, and because Andrew’s story does not. Here are some quotes from Virginia’s interview:
She hopes British people will stand with her: She directly implored viewers to “stand up beside me, to help me fight this fight, to not accept this as being OK…This is not some sordid sex story. This is a story of being trafficked. This is a story of abuse. And this is a story of your guys’ royalty.”
Going to the nightclub Tramp with Andrew: “We went into the VIP section. There was no waiting in the lines obviously – you were with a prince.” She said the royal quickly bought her a drink and asked her to dance, again insisting he “was sweating all over me” in the interview — given before Andrew claimed he is medically incapable of sweating. “He is the most hideous dancer I’ve ever seen in my life. I mean, it was horrible, and this guy was sweating all over me, like his sweat was like — it was raining, basically, everywhere. And I was just like grossed out from it,” she said, mimicking retching at the memory. But I knew I had to keep him happy because that’s what Jeffrey and Ghislaine would expect from me.”
Ghilaine Maxwell told her to have sex with Andrew: She said it was in the car ride to Maxwell’s London house that she was given the order to have sex Prince Andrew. “In the car, Ghislaine tells me that I have to do for Andrew what I do for Jeffrey — and that just made me sick.”
Afterwards: “It was disgusting. I sat there in bed and felt horrified and ashamed. I had just been abused by a member of the royal family. These powerful people were my chains.”
On Andrew’s denials: Giuffre slammed the “ridiculous excuses” for claiming the photo was a fake and trying to justify the Duke’s ongoing friendship with Epstein, many of which emerged publicly before Andrew’s interview. “Like, his arm was elongated or the photo was doctored, or he came to New York to break up with Jeffrey Epstein. I mean, come on — I’m calling BS on this. Because that’s what it is. He knows what happened. I know what happened. And there’s only one of us telling the truth, and I know that’s me.”
[From The NY Post & The NY Times]
Again, where is Ghislaine? Has the FBI actually sat down with her and interviewed her? Does she also have some kind of shady deal with DOJ? I hope all of Jeffrey Epstein’s victims get some kind of justice, even if it’s just being able to tell their stories and being believed. But if we say “well, Epstein is dead, and there’s no more justice to be found,” we’re ignoring Maxwell’s role in the human trafficking organization, and we’re ignoring the other powerful men who abused these trafficked girls. I believe Virginia.
Photos courtesy of BBC, WENN and Backgrid.
F*ck the patriarchy. And f*ck the toxic women who enable it. That’s all I got. We are with you Virginia.
I believe Virginia.
#IBelieveVirginia
#WhereIsGhislane
#princeandrew
99% of people there believe Virginia…
That poor woman. What she has endured. I totally believe her. It will be interesting to see how the Lying Royal Family reacts to her interview. They are just hideous.
I believe her.
That’s all I have.
Also: I wonder if the British press has been intimidated by the Firm to not talk about this interview too much.
Don’t think so. It was front page of the Mail this morning. We have just had a horrible terrorist attack on Friday; we have a general election next week, with a choice between the anti-semitism supporters (Labour) or Boris; and Donald Trump has just turned up in the country. There is other stuff going on.
Nope this story is BIG in the UK. Even Radio 4’s PM programme covered it in depth tonight. Apparently a British witness has just come forward.
As Grumpy says, though, there are many other HUGE stories happening in the UK right now. We’re all waiting with baited breath for Trump to weigh in re the election. Surely he can’t behave for two whole days – come on Jeremy, ambush him over dinner tonight ….
I wish they had asked her about Dershowitz. That slime. I just don’t want to see any of these men skate. I also hope this brings down the BRF. They’re disgusting.
Oh and of course trumpie was claiming not to know Andrew this morning. And twitter came along with the receipts. Lots of pics of the two over the years. He knows him. He’s knee deep. But I don’t believe this will ever touch him. What a world.
Even Trump understands he must take distances from Andrew! And the Queen still doesn’t get it.
well that’s a good point.
excellent point.
The queen is his mother. Rather a different matter than co-criminal.
(I think the queen is dealing with this poorly, ftr – she could have supported him privately as his mother instead of giving him cover as the head of state).
Andrew was his designated handler during his state visit six months ago.
So horrifying. To be trapped in that way, by these horribly powerful people. Maxwell need to be f-ing arrested. I feel like she made some kind of deal with the DOJ for info on Epstein and then he “committed suicide” but there has to be a way for these girls to get justice.
Legal justice is important, but social justice is just as important, we need to build a better society to support, protect and BELIEVE these victims. So many people wait to come forward or never do who are trafficking victims because they are afraid of not just their traffickers but also society as a whole.
I believe Virginia.
I believe Virginia 1000%.
And agree about Ghislaine cutting a deal with the DOJ for dirt. There are just too many powerful people implicated. I’m assuming after Epstein’s death she’s in DOJ protective custody.
Ghislaine Maxwell better not cut any sort of a deal. She was basically the second in charge of the trafficking ring. She ran the operation for Epstein. He wasn’t going out and finding these girls and setting up a perverse pyramid scheme to keep new girls flowing to him- that was what Ghislaine did, with relish. She made sure their passports were locked down, she made sure they were kept scared and threatened against speaking out. Honestly from a legal standpoint she has much more potential criminal culpability for her role in trafficking than, say, Prince Andrew.
She needs to be held responsible criminally for what she did, 100%
Yes Tourmaline and she is a woman on top of it all. Disgraceful. A man would not have made it happen as easily as she did. She got the women ( girls) to trust her and it was over for them after that.
No doubt Ghislaine is as culpable as Epstein and should be held to account for all of her crimes. But I’m also a lawyer and pragmatist, and just sense her being out of sight means her in federal custody naming names. It’s in absolutely no way justice for her victims and that prospect is awful.
If the feds made a deal with Maxwell, who are they targeting? Presumably they would have made a deal with someone who could testify against Maxwell and Epstein since they were the leaders of the trafficking ring.
I feel so terrible for Virginia, to go through something so horrible and know you’ll probably never get justice because of who did it.
I think the FBI will never speak to Gisline (sp?) because to many powerful people are involved- like a current and former President. They sadly will just let this go IMO. I pray I’m wrong but I don’t have a lot of faith that I am.
But I’m glad the victims are speaking out and I hope more do and name names (although I can’t imagine how scary that would be)
There’s no excuse for Bill having been on Epstein’s plane or having anything to do with him. And I won’t make any. But it bothers me that we throw him in with trump, not because I care about protecting Bill, I do not, but because I believe doing this protects trump.
Bill does not stand accused by any woman or girl Epstein trafficked. Trump does. A woman has accused him of raping her when she was 13 years old, and held by Epstein. That’s been buried. Further, Trump’s modeling company, IMO, was a trafficking organization. And in fact, Espstein used it as a model for his own.
We as a country, refuse to face up to exactly what is in our White House. And I believe it is so much worse than people want to suspect, then the media will EVER report.
Good points Darla.
Umm, Bill has been accused, multiple times, of sexual assault and harassment, just not by the women trafficked by Epstein. If this brings him down along with the shitbag Andrew, even better. Throw in trump and Dershowitz too. Why do people continue to give Clinton a pass? Are the multitude of women that accused him all liars?
Tracey, Darla didn’t say Bill had never been accused or deserves a pass… just that Bill’s connection to Epstein is a deflection to Trump’s more serious connections.
She is saying that out of the many things Bill has been accused of, none of them involved sex trafficking or underage girls. And Trump has such accusations. It’s butter emails all over.
If the right would stop with false equivalencies we could have real convos about this stuff… but we can’t because instead we’re pointing out the false equivalencies. It’s a great tactic by the right to insure everyone argues instead of acts.
Thank you Rapunzel, that is exactly what i am saying. And trump uses bill to deflect. And a lot of the woke go right along with it, because it feels so good. What does it accomplish? Well, we got a monster, and likely human trafficker sitting in the WH, hiding in plain sight.
And “throw trump in”?? Nah girl! (tracey) If you are not operating for the right, you are doing their dirty work for free. Trump is himself a human trafficker, get it? Throwing him with anyone, allows him to hide. So either you are on payroll, or, what I unfortunately believe is far more likely, you are so woke that you are a joke! And the right loves you, they love you!
God save me from the woke left. They have done so much damage to us. So much damage.
Excellent points. Mixing in Clinton’s womanizing with adult women dilutes Trump’s criminal pedophilia. And yes, I also believe that Trump’s early association with John Casablancas got him into the business of creating his own “modeling” organization to supply underage girls to old men.
Darla, thank you for this. I completely see your point. Also, thank you for bringing up the “wokeness” of the left. Nothing has been so damaging to liberal causes as the woke left. If we can’t see the distinctions between a truly evil tyrant (Trump), and a run-of-the-mill sexual predator (Clinton), then we are lost. And I don’t take Clinton’s role as a sexual predator lightly either, so please don’t jump down my throat. It’s just not on the same level as someone who is actively harming/killing people on a world scale as Trump is doing. See the environment.
I totally believe her. But why she stayed there? Could she just leave one day and go home to her parents or something?
We need to get over this idea that everyone has parents to go home to, and that parents are inherently protective, good, people. She states in this interview that she was sexually abused as a child. I don’t know the details of that, but start there and see where it takes you. She also says that she told this insidious spider, Maxwell, and also Epstein, that she was sexually abused as a child. And that this was a mistake because they then saw her as vulnerable. Which of course they did. That’s the kind of children these predators go after. Because not all children are protected in this world. So they seek out the children who aren’t. Another reason they deserve the death penalty. Epstein got it, but Maxwell has it coming.
She also said that when Epstein and Maxwell began to abuse her, she thought that maybe this was normal, which is so sad. She was abused at seven years old, confided in people she believed she could trust, and then was horribly exploited. In short, she never knew anything else. It’s tragic.
Thank you @Darla. I too am tired of this perception that all parents are the same and will automatically look out for their children and just assuming all these girls had to do was tell their parents what was happening, or go back to their parents or something, and they could have been helped/saved or whatever.
Without saying it directly, I think Virginia roundabout makes it clear that her parents were not an option. Abuse seems to have been a normal thing in her life since she was a child.
And frankly, I could tell you a horror story or two of parents who more or less pimped out their kids to get them access in places like Hollywood. Not every parents has their child’s best interest at heart sadly.
Epstein didn’t get the death penalty, he got lynched, a lynching that spared him and his fellow rapists any real consequences and prevented his many many victims from getting justice. I am outright angry with those who killed him (and yes, I think he was killed).
Let’s not forget that victims are very carefully chosen and meticulously groomed. A process that takes years. There are a million tiny incremental steps that take place long before you are forced to have sex with a sweaty ass prince. Predators know how to pick the most vulnerable of women/children, they are incredibly good at what they do and that is why they get away with it. Children who have suffered previous abuse are so much more vulnerable. Just watch The Keepers on Netflix if you want further evidence of how previous abuse victims are ideal targets of predators.
Thank you for saying this so much better than I can. It truly was not an instant process, and was likely slow-paced brainwashing and manipulation.
My understanding of the Epstein MO was that Maxwell and/or other women scouted near schools to “befriend” girls. No doubt they were seeking girls without a strong family unit, or economically vulnerable. I hope every one of the predators involved faces justice.
In theorie, yes. In real life, no! They attract those girls at a tender age with colorful promisses of being an actress, attending famous parties and high class places, and have lots of fun. Maybe a rich husband. Actually, they are transformed in prisioners: they hold pictures and films to spread all over, they threaten their families and relatives if they go public; they are young, they believe it. And, of course, they are well paid for what they do. Virginia was very, very brave to expose them, or maybe she didn’t have much to loose (or thought so, being an orphan or with little or no family) and their advisors were good to manage her case. All those stories, no matter how many Epsteins, Andrews or God knows who else are involved, have to have an end. Being young girls or women, it has to stop, it’s sordid.
I’m glad lots of people are stepping in here. It’s really not always that simple. Who knows what she felt the consequences of her saying no would be but they were clearly enough. I’m glad that stories like this are breaking down the barriers of what people believe rape to be.
@lana86: Have you ever heard of the Stockholm Syndrome? It’s a condition which causes hostages to develop a psychological alliance with their captors during captivity…, a hostage’s development of positive feelings towards the captor. She was already damaged when Maxwell and Epstein got to her, then they meticulously brain-washed her into doing their bidding. As well as being sexual criminals, they are behaviour criminals in that they know how to mold someone’s thoughts and feelings. Both crimes are equally heinous.
I believe her, that’s all I’ve got to say.
I read a comment yesterday that said PA’s bottom teeth look like the skyline of Chattanooga and I wish I could upload the photo comparison. These people are all disgusting, I hope Virginia finds peace and justice.
I believe her.
And that line – “these powerful people were my chains” – is so chilling. When people ask “why didn’t she get help, why didn’t she tell someone” etc -she was forced to have sex with the second son of the Queen of England. Who do you tell? Who’s going to believe you over the Duke of York? Can you imagine how trapped and alone she felt in that moment? Its heartbreaking.
It really is.
For all of this Andrew deserves to be stripped of everything he has ever been given by the grace of being born out of the monarch’s womb. He used his titles, power and existence, to abuse vulnerable women. This is abuse of power and, even if he never goes to jail, he should be made an example of by stripping him bare of everything he “owns”.
Poor Virginia.
Too many people, and I think this might include The Queen which is why she isn’t as horrified by Andrew as she should be, think rape involves fighting and screaming and if someone isn’t doing that, it’s not rape. But it is. It’s about consent – these trafficked women did not consent and it is rape.
I hope they all face justice – the ones who participated in any way and the ones who helped cover for them.
First is the whole interview available in the US? I’ve been looking for it, cause it could just be the way it is cut to me, but I’m not quite sure about this. I’m not saying she wasn’t sex trafficked or she was told to have sex with Andrew. I don’t want to get into why exactly this interview gives me pause, but I can see a scenario where she may be coloring it cause no one believed her when she was being trafficked to just a nobody. If she felt that way, she is right no one did jump on this story as much as they should have when it was just the sex trafficking, which is sad beyond belief.
The BBC did this interview before Andrew’s and what I’ve seen of it looks far more credible after Andrew’s, but without Andrew’s interview, again I’m not quite sure. I am not one of these people who automatically believes every victim. I know on here it is a big no no, but especially with celebrities, I do see times where victims may not be entirely truthful. Plus, I like to hear the victims accounts, and make my own mind up. Generally, the victim’s account makes me believe her more. Dr. Christine Blasey Ford is a perfect example. I expected her account to be a bit foggy as she was so young when it happened, but her emotions were evident in every word. It made sense to me. I will say if it is just Joe Blow being accused of something, not a celebrity, I just believe the victim, cause there is very little to no incentive to come out with the story though and go through the horrible process of trying to go after them. I do have a logic in it, and I realize some on here won’t like that. I also think it’s highly possible that a lot of victims are predominately right on some things, but not on others, and that is okay and in fact normal. Now I do stand up against sex trafficking with her, and I can’t believe Ghislaine Maxwell hasn’t been arrested yet. She needs to be brought to justice, as to me she seems to be as big of a piece to this as Epstein. I can’t believe she’s still out there free from indictments.
I think in this case it is simple. Andrew has been proven to be a liar. He claimed he never met her, but there is the photograph of him with his hands around her waist.
Why would he lie, if he is innocent? Is there any legit reason for an adult man to be at a private party with underage girls without there parents or guardians?
Let’s not forget that an EMAIL surfaced a day or two ago FROM DoY TO Ghislaine saying that he “HAD QUESTIONS ABOUT VIRGINIA ROBERTS”, a woman Pedo claims to have NEVER have met!
Smoke, meet gun.
You realize that you directly contradict yourself here:
“I am not one of these people who automatically believes every victim. ”
and
“I also think it’s highly possible that a lot of victims are predominately right on some things, but not on others, and that is okay and in fact normal.”
You clearly don’t want to be seen as a victim blamer, acknowledging that “some here won’t like what I say.” (my paraphrase). I get the feeling you want to hold onto the “bitches be lyin” response, which is our cultural default when it comes to believing women, and still hedge your bets on a feminist friendly website with “I believe women.”
When push comes to shove, where do you stand? “Is it “bitches be lyin” or is it “believe women?” Statistically, very few women lie about assault–really, there’s nothing to gain by lying because victims are always put on trial. Who envies Dr. Ford or Virginia Guiffre? And the fact that some women with their own pathologies do lie doesn’t negate the fact that most do not.
I believe women. Try saying it out loud. To say that doesn’t negate that some women lie. The liars get called out for lying (For Americans, the UVA accuser and the Duke lacrosse accuser are 2 liars who come to mind). But do these few examples negate all of the women telling the truth? Women who risk their careers, personal safety, reputations to tell the truth? These brave women are speaking out so that more people become aware of how prevalent sexual assault really is in our culture. They deserve to be heard. They deserve to be believed. They deserve to be supported.
Believe women. Believing women doesn’t negate due process. Believing women doesn’t mean hating men. Believing women puts us on a path toward achieving justice for women. Believing women puts us on a path toward creating a more equitable society. We still have such a long, long way to go.
are you kidding me @noway? not having this today. really? she isn’t to be believed because it was a prince she’s referring to? Please reread your nonsense, it really doesn’t make much sense to me. The picture of her and Andrew puts them both in the same place. She was a young and vulnerable young lady who was extremely insecure and needed help and was abused. No matter who the abuser is, it still leaves marks., Think about the hole in her soul, knowing what she knows, having to relive these moments in her mind for the rest of her life. Second guessing herself, being upset, mad, angry, disgusted, helpless. I hope she keeps telling her story and that she helps take these assholes down. Shame on the lot of them. They are all guilty. You don’t go inside this situation as an innocent bystander. All these men are disgusting and guilty. And that Maxwell and her rat face.
@Noway- look, statistically, the odds of VG lying about PA are minuscule. If you were betting your life, you would bet on the woman telling the truth. Every time.
First of all I believe VG that PA had sex with her while she was underage, thereby it was rape. I also believe that Epstein and Maxwell were evil to prey on underage girls.
What I don’t understand – and this is not judgement – is the relationship that VG had with Epstein. Did she want to be with them or did she have no other place to go? Did she want to have sex with Epstein but not his friends? Again I am not judging. Clearly it is rape when a 17 y o is having sex with adults who are forcing her to do so. But I don’t understand whether she was willing to have sex with Epstein and Maxwell or if they kept her against her will….
They told her they would pay for her school. I think she wanted to be a professional, legitimate, masseuse and they told her they would pay for her training if she worked for them.
She was lured in by that, and then manipulated.
This. She also has described that she was abused as a child, very troubled, had been a runaway. Ghislaine Maxwell spotted her working in the spa at Mar-a-Lago and zoomed in for the kill. They targeted the most vulnerable girls, as predators of this sort tend to do
It’s called the Stockholm Syndrome – read my comment above.
I believe her, and if you don’t even believe a tiny bit of what she says…well, f— you, however you’re probably NOT on this page if you feel that way!
I believe you Virginia. You are incredibly brave.
I worry for her safety!
One thing that kills me is that if he hadn’t done that stupid interview none of this would still be in the news. This has been ignored for YEARS along with his shady dealings with oligarchs. What is horrifying is his involvement with G and JE is not even the worst of his problems. All of this… the Queen knew. And has always known. What the actual F??
She’s much safer now that it’s public. The more interviews, the safer she is. And hopefully she’s made a deposition- that would really clinch it.
We believe you,
Curious where all the folks are from yesterday’s comments who were crying and moaning about Americans being “over the top and hysterical” about this matter.
The photo says it all.
I believe Virginia and I stand with her and all the survivors!
Virginia’s strength is unbelievable. I cant even imagine going through what she has been and still having the power to stand up for myself. But she isnt just standing up for herself, she is standing up for every other victim too. She blows me away. I wish her nothing but the best! I also hope she and the other victims get every dime from Epsteins estate.
I believe Virginia.
I believe women.
Every.single.woman. Every single one of them I know has suffered some form of sexual harassment or abuse. Every.single.one.
It’s #notallmen but it’s a hell of lot of them.
It’s #notallmen, but this is something that affects all women. I agree with your post & wonder why our societal kick back is “Not all men!!” Yes, we know, that not all men are perps, but we are trying, instead, to finally focus on how this slice of men affects all women. And how the men & women who collude with them affect our society as a whole. #notallmen is such a sick defense mechanism that is focusing on the wrong side of a very real problem.
And meanwhile Ghislaine is out there somewhere running free.
Karma is a steamroller and it needs to find her.
At the end of the day, come what may, I hope all of this proves to be cathartic if not fully healing for her. I’m not going to say poor Virginia. She survived. She’s fragile yet strong and able to tell her story. in some ways, I think that makes her a giant. Although many people don’t want to do that, don’t need to do that or can’t do that at the moment. My one hope for her and the others is that they come to know that there are more of us out here who care than there are people who abused and exploited her/them.
Maxwell would be very hard to bring to charges as well as conviction. Unfortunately the evidence against her is all circumstantial at this point. There’s nothing wrong with circumstantial other than the fact that it’s incredibly easy to pick apart and discredit, especially if you have the best defense lawyers money can buy. Its all about what is admitted into court and how defense lawyers explain these things. Virginia had a civil suit against her in the past and it was thrown out because Maxwell’s lawyers combed through everything for slight inaccuracies and Virginia’s previous drug convictions. Maxwell has a clean record on paper. For the dance that is the law system, especially cases that are so hard to prove, these things count.
It’s such a mess. I feel so terribly bad for Virginia. She’s fighting though and I don’t think she will stop. I hope to god something comes forward, some sort of indication of a cooperative between Epstein and Maxwell that eludes to sex trafficking.
I hope this bish rots.
The civil suit of Virginia Giuffre vs Ghislaine Maxwell was not thrown out. Her civil suit against Maxwell was settled out of court in 2017 on confidential terms.
https://www.miamiherald.com/news/state/florida/article234695687.html
There is PLENTY of evidence regarding the trafficking ring. The operations of the ring really were not all that discreet and there were ample photographs, phone records and other documents such as travel logs, and eyewitnesses, as well as the first-person accounts of many, many girls and women that are corroborated in many details. As described in Julie K. Brown’s series in the Miami Herald, the Palm Beach police amassed a ton of evidence regarding dozens of victims. What prevented that from being converted to criminal charges and convictions were the actions of the Florida state and federal prosecutors who bowed down to Epstein and his high priced legal team.
The charges pending on Epstein when he died were brought from federal prosecutors in New York. Other jurisdictions may be amassing their own evidence. As an attorney, in my view from just the bits that have been made public–I don’t buy that the evidence regarding this ring is lacking at all. The SDNY prosecutors are dead serious about this, it may take time, but something is going to happen in terms of additional defendants.
You can’t help wondering, where were her parents? Why was she allowed at 17 yrs old to travel all over the world with these people? If she was mature enough to do that, no one was putting a gun to her head to sleep with these men? I have no doubt she slept with these men. I have no doubt she enjoyed living the high life at one point in her life. I have no doubt she feels bad about her life choices now.
Wow you sound like a complete idiot. Not sure even explanations will help. Wow…. i hope you don’t have a daughter
Did you even read any of the more thoughtful and educated comments above? Apparently not. She was from an abusive family, sexually assaulted a couple of times as a very young girl, had run away and was basically a vulnerable, messed up lost soul. These f*cking people prey on young, scared, poor women and manipulate them into doing anything. I’m going to repeat to you what I posted above: Have you ever heard of the Stockholm Syndrome? It’s a condition which causes hostages to develop a psychological alliance with their captors during captivity creating a hostage’s development of positive feelings towards the captor. She was already damaged when Maxwell and Epstein got to her, then they meticulously brain-washed her into doing their bidding. As well as being sexual criminals, they are behaviour criminals in that they know how to mold someone’s thoughts and feelings. Both crimes are equally heinous.
This Thanksgiving, the scandal of Danny Masterson was brought up and a guest at my table said “there was no proof!”
There’s rarely “proof” you idiot.
I believe women, is what I responded. And victims. And I believe Virginia.
Ugh the rapist Danny Masterson has me chagrined that I watched that show while he was actively being a sexual predator.
You couldn’t have known, Betsy! Don’t beat yourself up. Beat him up.
I keep thinking who’d benefit from Epstein’s “suicide”? I have no doubt he was murdered at someone’s request. Any other powerful figures whose assosiation with Epstein could ruin their lives/ break careers? I can think of Trump only…