I’m not a Catholic and I don’t really give a crap about popes or organized religion in general. I think Catholicism deserves to take a backseat, in general, because of centuries of pedophilia and cover-ups for pedophile priests. All that being said, I kind of like Pope Francis. He seems to be a genuinely kind old man who loves pizza and faithful, humble service. But never forget that before Franny got the pope gig, he used to be a bouncer for a Buenos Aires nightclub. Pope Francis will THROW HANDS if you try to f–k with him. As Jesus said, if a bitch wants to f–k with me, she’s going to get smacked. Amen. This happened on New Year’s Eve in St. Peter’s square.
Not just one smack, several smacks in succession. I mean, I’m not mad about it? People behave inappropriately and grabby with public figures all the time and it’s gross. Keep your hands to yourself. Just because someone’s a public figure or a celebrity, don’t act like you can grab them or squeeze their hand or whatever. As you can see from the video, it looked like the woman really did PULL him and he was off-balance. That’s a huge security risk too, especially for a world leader (which is what Pope Francis is).
Anyway, on New Year’s Day, Pope Francis apologized for what happened the day before, saying: “I apologize for the poor example yesterday.” He also made a speech about violence against women, saying in part:
“Women are sources of life. Yet they are continually insulted, beaten, raped, forced to prostitute themselves and to suppress the life they bear in the womb,” the Pontiff told worshipers gathered at St. Peter’s Basilica in the Vatican on Wednesday. “Every form of violence inflicted upon a woman is a blasphemy against God, who was born of a woman.”
During his New Year address on Wednesday, the Pontiff also spoke about gender equality, telling the congregation that women “should be fully included in decision-making processes… Every step forward for women, is a step forward for humanity as a whole.”
I’m… sort of okay with this? This wasn’t a man attacking a woman out of nowhere – Francis was defending himself against a woman who grabbed him and could have been a security risk. In retrospect, perhaps he overreacted by smacking her hand (repeatedly), but on the other hand, he’s human and he had a human reaction, although I know “infallibility” is supposed be a big f–king part of the papacy. And so he was human, had a human reaction, apologized for it and then stood up for women. If “standing up for women” is basically “women are the carriers of babies, that’s the only reason they should be respected.”
Photos courtesy of WENN, Avalon Red.
ah so Pope Francis does understand bodily autonomy and consent then! Too bad he can’t apply this knowledge to the bodies of children and women that his clergy have repeatedly violated.
Pope Francis specifically has rescinded a lot of the Vatican rules set in place that protected pedophiles and he believes in turning them in, not quietly reassigning them. He’s also publicly said that you don’t necessarily have to be catholic to go to heaven (and included atheists in his statement) as long as you’re a good person.
So yeah, critique Catholicism all day but don’t dump on the ONE pope in the history of the religion that is actually trying to make a positive change.
Yup- this! Has he done enough? No, but he has taken concrete steps, unlike the popes before him.
Also, in this scenario, I am on his sides. World leaders are not property. That woman was probably excited but that does not justify that behaviour.
Could not agree more!!
He only did that after he was found to have been actively supporting pedophile priests and ranting about how it was all lies coming from people trying to take down the church. He was forced into the reforms. They aren’t in line with his personal beliefs. My mother is catholic and the head priest at her church was forced to retire because he openly said that he believed the victims and the pope was wrong. He’s a garbage human with a good PR team.
I agree with you, Ainsley7. He’s made terrible statements about homosexuality, still declares abortion to be horrific, and would cover up the scandal if he could.
I get the church is not going to be liberal, ever. But pretending like he’s an awesome person is so, so silly.
And the Pope is not a world leader, per se.
I may get dragged for this but whatever – I feel like the Pope is the one person who probably shouldn’t slap a pilgrim’s hands with the pouty face of an 8 year old. It’s the least he can do.
Maria, he has been positive about homosexuality, saying that it’s not a sin and that parents should not banish a gay child.
The disgraceful behavior of the priests who have been molesters is aberrant and is not typical of the religion just like terrorism is not typical of Islam.
I would not consider his comments to be positive. What he said was, homosexual “tendencies” are not a sin any more than a tendency to anger, and that acting on it is the sin – actually, he stresses for the parents to go to a “professional” to sort it out. His comments about gay priests are harmful and ignorant as well.
It is not typical of the religion but it is quite typical of the Church to protect sex abusers and abet them.
@Ainsley @Maria
I really don’t think y’all have been following this pope. He’s been shockingly liberal, not just for a pope but for a catholic. And yes, he has a long way to go for a “regular” woke person but considering he is the head of an incredibly conservative religious group, he’s gone well beyond anyone’s expectations.
Note: I am not catholic (raised Catholic, currently agnostic leaning towards atheist). I still find this particular singular pope to be beyond surprising in a lovely way.
I have been following him. “More liberal than before” is not acceptable although the institution itself is at fault. He will never be able to be all-embracing, because of said institution. That is an issue.
There is nothing lovely about pleading with the Irish not to hold a vote on legalizing abortion or urging gynecologists to refuse to perform medical procedures due to their “conscience” when we already have a war on reproductive rights. And this is the position he will always have to take, because he’s the head of the church. Neither thing is acceptable.
Given how widespread the abuse has been and how protected the priests were by the institution, it seems disingenuous, and frankly dismissive of those who have been abused, to call it an aberration.
Maria, to clarify, he proposes professional support for a child who is gay but that when they confirm their status, they deserve the acceptance of their family and should never be thrown out of the family.
Sorry but the idea that a child should have to go to a “professional” to “confirm” their status for “homosexual worrying tendencies” (all his words) is ludicrous and invasive. And not kicking them out is the bare minimum of decency, I’m not impressed particularly.
The issue with his comments about “accepting” homosexuality and trans people is problematic because he still opposes gay people entering the priesthood, he still opposes same sex marriage, he still opposes gender theory being taught – not kicking someone out of your home but still attacking the basic rights they are striving for is not acceptance.
Again, I’m aware that as Head of the Catholic Church he will never be able to be “woke”. But I really truly beg to differ that his lip service to certain issues is something we should be applauding.
But that’s just me.
I think he’s better and more liberal than the previous popes, but there’s still a long way to go.
In this situation, the woman grabbed his arm and yanked him, and prevented him from moving. I think it was a gut instinct to slap at her hands, and he didn’t do it in a way to hurt her at all. I also think the woman was probably just overly excited and meant no harm.
@RUNCMC I’m right there with you. We call ourselves “recovering Catholics”. Considering the thousands of years of misogyny, mafia style tactics, pedophilia & the abusive priest witness protection program, I Think Pope Francis has been quite progressive.
Which I know isn’t saying much but it IS a v v small baby step in the right direction.
Amen, Lala. The Pope and The Catholic Diocese has not done nearly enough to make up for the many lives they have destroyed. Eff them.
THANK YOU, Lala!
I had the exact reaction you did.
I think in his position I would be thinking about the guy who used to do my job and was shot, surprised his security did not react quicker to this, they were lucky it was only a grab and tussle.
Also maybe don’t grab 83 year old people and risk them falling and breaking a hip.
It was such an aggressive grab, I can see why he may have felt it was an unsafe situation.
Why didn’t his bodyguard intervene? Isn’t that their job? But I don’t have a problem with this. He was defending himself.
I’m really curious about what that woman was saying. It didn’t sound like English or Italian. Can anyone guess? She sounded like she was in distress and was begging him for something.
I’m with you on this. His bodyguard should have done something. It makes him look unkind/prickly EVEN THOUGH he was absolutely in the right and defending himself against someone being way too forceful. Bodyguard fail.
YES. I totally agree. He was defending himself and the attack (that’s what it felt like to him) came from BEHIND him. Why tf didn’t his bodyguards jump in?!? Hell, why eren’t they–or at least one of them–covering him from behind? Jesus, that should NEVER have happened!
Legacy of Catholicism and papal misconduct aside, I don’t have a problem with this incident at all — I don’t even feel like he “needed” to apologize although I appreciate that he did.
Yes. Exactly.
Yeah, you know, it was a knee jerk reaction, I can’t say I blame him for this. I do respect this man, he has spoken out about a lot of things that other popes have shoved under the rug.
How was he supposed to react? When someone is pulling you and grabbing you against your will and your security is standing around doing nothing, you have to defend yourself!
So true!
I kept seeing the headlines about this and thought it sounded pretty bad, and then I saw the videos of it and my reaction was, “yeah she was really grabbing at him.” His reaction maybe wasn’t the best but I don’t really blame him.
You don’t pull on any 80-year old person’s arm. They’re fragile.
I don’t like being touched, I can’t imagine how celebrities and public figures deal with this.
This was kind of hilarious. But yeah, totally within his rights.
I do respect him for the changes he is making regarding the church’s response to sexual abuse. It’s always going to be a slow process to change an institution thousands of years old and involving millions of people around the world.
None of these are excuses for the way the church has dealt with clergy sexual abuse allegations, which has been atrocious, moronic, and criminal. But it’s a start.
Kinda funny? Funny as hell!! Best laugh I had all Christmas.
She grabbed and pulled on him, he was being restrained to only slap her hand imo.
Let’s be honest, he reacted how any of us would have if a stranger grabbed our arm and wouldn’t let go. And he probably acted much better than most would have in that situation
I think her pulling caused him great pain. His facial response is a grimace (pain response) then anger/irritation. I don’t blame him for responding as he did.
Yeah she had that one coming. My knee jerk reaction would’ve spanked her.
This is exactly what I was thinking. At his age it would be common for him to have arthritis in various joints. I have it in my hands and shoulders and immediately thought how painful that grab and jerk looked.
I’m Catholic so I watched the video and yeah, that woman was completely in the wrong for doing what she did. She grabbed him as he was turning away to greet people on the other side of the barriers and jerked him toward her. So imagine being grabbed just as you are turning away to walk in the other direction. Your fight/flight instinct kicks in and she basically assaulted him. So yeah, he was pissed and wanted to get away from her and hit her hand repeatedly because she would not let go. I don’t think he overreacted at all. Plus like everyone said, he’s about 80ish, you don’t go jerking around senior citizens when they have their back turned. I don’t think he even needed to apologize honestly, that woman was such an ahole.
Also has anyone watched the movie on Netflix The Two Popes? Most of it is a dramatization of the relationship between Benedict XVI and Francis but I thought it was really good. Anthony Hopkins and Jonathan Pryce were amazing in it. I learned that Francis loves dancing the Argentine tango which he did frequently when he was younger and also how his reputation took a hit for his role during Argentina’s Dirty War, which I was completely unaware of before I watched the movie.
I thoroughly enjoyed that film. The back story of his younger days in Argentina is fascinating, the sets and scenery gorgeous, the acting stellar, the political maneuvering intriguing, and the ending warm and humorous.
I suggest watching The Keepers on Netflix and then try to justify still being a Catholic.
Many Catholics are fully aware of Church’s horrific history of pedophilia and cover ups, thanks. We’re trying to navigate our faith and our relationship with God personally and not within the flawed institution or its problematic doctrine.
I’m with you, ChillyWilly. I am *so* angry with the catholic church. It is not just what the pedo priests did themselves, though vile and truly horrific, but the way the actual institution handled those priests. They hid it, and shipped them off to other parishes, where they found new victims, over and over. These victims were innocent children.
All while this “institution” sits in judgement over everyone else. It is complete and utter bullshit.
Are seriously trying to blame all Catholics for that? I’m a full on atheist but even I have to say that the only people responsible for the pedophilia are the pedophiles and the people that willingly covered it up for them. Unless a Catholic has done one of the two they bear no responsibility for the actions of others.
I was at Christmas Eve mass in Mexico looking around at all these beautiful brown indigenous looking people and thinking about how we are all here professing a faith that was forced on our ancestors through threat of torture and death. It’s hard for me to remain Catholic every single day. It’s so weird that I hang onto it for cultural reasons when Christianity is responsible for the suppression of the culture of my ancestors.
Never said I was a practicing Catholic. Don’t assume anything about someone you don’t know. 😉 I mostly watched the video because I was wondering who was at fault. Turns out the lady was 100%.
And all religions have dark marks against them, let’s not kid ourselves. I’m not going to name any examples but all major religions have skeletons in their closet.
@Aang, I know hiw the catholic church worked with the Spanish/ Portuguese crowns to win over and conquer. Whatever horrible things happened, the religions merged and created beautiful traditions that are Many tiMes despised or rejected by people of other christian religions. I like the sincretism, with the exception of the latter Subculture of adoration of death, which was more or less created by witch doctors and the commercialization of their business, and illegal activities.
I lime this pope better than others and church has a large powerful conservative drag, I think this pope would make some more changes if it could. Some people would like the church to still pray in latin, others like me and quite soMe clerics and nuns, would like more power to laics and than priests would be allowed to marry, etc.
And excuse me if I am in the wrong, but I understand that being catholics did not save Poland from being invaded. I read that (not justifying) Vatican helped many people with fake papers to flee to safer areas, and many catholics hid people, risking their lives, as I bet people from other faiths did. I read somE comments here that are generalizations I find hard To agree with. I am not leaving the organized religion I belong to because I think that disagreeing is what it will help to move it forward.
So judgmental just as you are in other threads.
I started but haven’t finished it yet. So far it’s pretty good.
Fight, flight or freeze. I’m a freezer and the Pope is a fighter. No one has a right to grab anyone like that and if they do can expect consequences.
OT, but hello from another freezer! I can’t tell you how many times I’ve told someone a story about getting groped and their response was ‘Why didn’t you hit him/scream/fight back?’ No matter which reaction you have it seems that you are wrong-If you fight, you’re violent, if you flee, you’re a coward who let the person get away with it, and if you freeze, you probably actually wanted it.
I freeze up too, I hate it.
I don’t blame him. The woman wasn’t letting go and she was hurting him. He had to apologize because he’s the Pope, but that woman should also be issuing one as well. She was overzealous in her adoration.
Why the f*** is this old fart a world leader?
Why do people buy into this crap?
And why is the pope always a man and never a woman?
Ugh, I hope this new decade is a time where people wake up from these religious fantasies..
Thank you!
Word.
isn’t he supposed to be God’s representative on earth? God must be a grumpy old bastard then…
Exactly. I find his words regarding women empty because women still cannot be priests in the catholic faith. Ridiculous
Although by no means super woke, this pope has made so many statements and changes that upset the status quo that I just realized with this incident that he has truthers on Twitter and probably other dark internet websites. It is wild (some of them doubting his status as an official priest) , and these truthers are almost entirely Trump supporters, which I am sure it is just a coincidence. He had a knee jerk reaction, but the pilgrim was over the line.
Is that what Jesus would do…
Yes, I thought Jesus preached “Turn the other cheek” ? Not saying I agree with that philosophy, but the Jesus freaks sure seem to pick and choose when it comes to their Bible. I call it Religion a la carte.
Jesus freaks? Holy shit you’re offensive.
I don’t think the term is any more offensive than the doctrine of the Catholic Church itself. And I don’t know why people who disagree with said doctrine align themselves with it, honestly.
Well, Maria, the beauty of it is that Catholics don’t care if you understand why. Many of us were raised in the faith and practice it in the way we have interpreted the fundamentals that Jesus gave us.
Jesus freaks is offensive.
Ok. As long as you use the inspiration of the fundamentals of your faith to speak out against the very real damage this Church is causing and has caused historically.
Considering the fact that I am literally a screen name on the internet to you, you don’t know what I do or how I move IRL. Take your dismissive tone elsewhere.
Jesus freaks? Wow. Why do we never hear the term Allah freaks, Budda freaks, jew freaks etc. Why don’t you stop being so rude and offensive and let people do their thing and you do yours. There is no need to put people down like this, everyone has a right to believe what they want just let them be. Just because you don’t agree with religion, a lot of people do as is their right. Be nice!
Enn- I never said I knew you, or what you did. But the alignment of someone with a problematic doctrine pretty much makes it required for them to speak out against it.
Anyone has the right to believe what they want in peace. But the Catholic Church has not been the best proponent of such an idea, historically, and even now.
Maria, I don’t think you understand how you’re coming across here, but it’s incredibly high-handed and condescending.
Yeah sorry, it happens to be a touchy subject for me. I’m tired of seeing crosses on the lawns of local Catholic churches decrying the “abortion Holocaust” from an institution that said nothing to stop the attempted extermination of my people (and other groups). I’m tired of seeing teens in conversion therapy. I’m tired of sex abuses being brushed under the rug. Obviously, these are the topics we are speaking about when we talk about Catholicism.
And the difference between these and issues within other religions is that there is a main authoritative body condoning them and authorizing them and in some instances abetting them and most local churches and parishes are an extension of this.
If you have never endorsed any of those things, these comments obviously don’t apply to you then, and you needn’t feel that they do.
Just wow. I don’t agree with certain religions and they way they treat women or their doctrine, but I certainly try to be respectful when I argue. Hey I am respectful too when I argue my points with fellow friends who are conservative catholics.
Hell yes, I could see Jesus doing that. Read about how he drove the money lenders out of the temple and threw over their tables to boot. He was bad ass. 🙂
I probably shouldn’t even comment on this post because it’s so hard for my brain to separate this ‘incident’ (if this is an incident, what is pedophilia? Or the very long impressive list of criminal behavior?) from my hatred of the institution, but because the rest of us would probably do the same thing, one would assume he would take her hand on both of his, hold very tightly, and impress upon her the sanctity of a Pope stroll and how lucky she is standing so close to heaven personified lol.
I didn’t see this as violence against women at all. I did see it as patronizing (which I guess is actually appropriate if you think the Pope is great and she’s obviously a fan) like he gave her that little tap as a lesson like she was a kid making a mistake (in the past, I know people don’t teach kids like that now.)
Strange that you mention catholicism taking a back seat. Christians in the usa especially Latino catholics are increasingly converting to Islam. Although i am not religious I’ve learned about both and Islam makes more sense to me than Christianity so I get why this would happen.
Replacing one sect with another sect does not “make much sense”.
Islam respects women even less than the catholic church. Something that is really not an easy feat.
Eff the pope and eff the church. Make the church pay taxes, like everyone else. They are a for profit business organization.
We are forced to suppress the life we bear in the womb …? What does that mean?
I wasn’t sure what he meant by that, either. Women are forced to have abortions? Forced to take the pill? No idea.
The idea of a woman not wanting kids and being her own person is so foreign to them that if any woman shows up for reproductive care it MUST be because they are being forced by stronger, powerful others.
Ya know, bc we’re so weak and easily influenced. 🙄
There is a meme out there using this incident and having to go back to work today and it is spot on.
I find it hilarious that the pope says even atheists can get into heaven when we don’t believe there is a heaven……..LOL
You may not believe there is, but no one can prove there isn’t.
That can cut both ways, not much of an argument
80+ year-old bodies are fragile and she could have seriously hurt him. My aunt went to help my 86 year-old grandmother out of a chair and instead of lifting her properly she just grabbed her hand and ended up yanking off a good chunk of skin. It was like tissue paper just peeling off the top of her hand and four years later it has still hasn’t properly healed. I think all organized religion is bs but in this case I can’t fault the pope for reacting the way he did.
Well the woman grabbing him was out of line. However like most people, he is only religious and pious when it suits him.
He is an asshole. He helped hide pedophiles.
Big NOPE.
Yeah, the Pope had the right to defend himself. She was way out of line.
I suspect that he would like to make major reforms and is dealing with a lot of resistance within the church. Even Bannon is trying to undermine him.
And back during his visit to DC, he got to meet up with a very good friend from Argentina- privately. A nice little reunion. That friend is gay and brought his partner. I know this because these two men attended a little gallery show opening I attended; my friend had work in the show. So I suspect that this Pope has a little more real world every day liberalism in his instincts than the previous one.
But he is dealing with some hardcore resistance.
And she refused to let go even when he tried to pull his hand away! If the genders were reversed – if a man grabbed a female public figure and refused to let go, and she slapped his hand so he would release his grip – would anyone be criticizing her and demanding she apologize?
Maria, I totally agree with you. He’s the Pope and he should not be hitting desperate, true- believing pilgrims. My favorite Pope has to be John Paul, who fought the Nazis during world war 2. Don’t forget the Catholic church never denounced the Nazis. There is a famous picture of a high-ranking Church man (bishop?) goose stepping in a parade with the Nazis. The church stood with and for evil. That is a legacy no one should forget, disgraceful and unpardonable.
This! Reading about the Catholic Church’s complete inaction during the Holocaust is horrifying to me as a Jew.
This isn’t true. The Myth of Hitler’s Pope is a very good book on the subject and written by a Rabbi. It’s a rebuttal to the book Hitler’s Pope which was poorly researched and, in some cases, spread outright lies about what went on.
I wasn’t reading Hitler’s Pope. I’ve done independent studies of this in graduate school and otherwise.
The Vatican did nothing despite the (few, tiny) actions of Pius XII and the numerous pleas made to them.
To clarify:
The Vatican’s “condemnations” of the regime were weak and non-specific, and while Pius XII may not warrant the hatred usually given to him personally, he refused to issue declarations similar to the Allied condemnation of the genocide, his interventions were secret, and he reiterated to the US that he preferred to keep the Vatican neutral.
I agree with Catholic priest Marin Rhonheimer: “”Well-intentioned Catholic apologists continue to produce reports of Church condemnations of Nazism and racism. But these do not really answer the Church’s critics. The real problem is not the Church’s relationship to National Socialism and racism, but the Church’s relationship to the Jews. Here we need what the Church today urges: a ‘purification of memory and conscience.’ The Catholic Church’s undeniable hostility to National Socialism and racism cannot be used to justify its silence about the persecution of the Jews. It is one thing to explain this silence historically and make it understandable. It is quite another to use such explanations for apologetic purposes.”
She’s lucky he only slapped her hand because if someone grabbed me like that they would get a slap to the face. I don’t care about the pope but you keep your hands to yourself. I even think she caused him considerable pain judging by his reaction in the video. Remember, he’s 83 years old and she nearly made him fall.
And of course, the German pope was a member of Hitler Youth. Popes are only men invested with human authority to represent the holy. They are not God, nor should they be regarded as such. Their pronouncements, as their actions, are only those of men, though we would like to hold them to a higher standard.
First of all his bodyguards reaction shocking. Should be fired. They did not react in time and even after.
The woman grabbing him im tbat manner is in fault here. The way she grabbed and pulled him made me very uncomfortable to watch. I would smack her myself.
He compared a woman having a termination to someone hiring a hit man. Grossly offensive, including to the clinical staff involved.
“yeah yeah the church values women so much, but no they still can’t participate in the spiritual leadership structure of the Catholic Church.” Save your breath, Franny.
There are laic and religious women in movement inside the church who work hard.
People act a fool at pope masses, including the nuns, they literally rush to the front row and push and elbow people out of the way. I, a person always skeptical (I’m secular now btw) about this shit, even got carried away and weirdly over-excited. (I’ve been to two pope masses, circa 2005 for a class trip/pilgrimage, lead by a narcissistic priest). I gotta admit, I’m surprised he got so mad so fast. I’ve seen rockstars be more patient with that shit.
One of the reasons I “like” the Catholic Church is that people there venerate Mother Mary. It’s closer to a holy goddess image than other variations of Christianity. Catholic policies and behaviors must change quickly or this man will be the last pope. That’s my prediction for the ancient Western church. Can’t believe this story made it to Celebitchy. Lol.
Never any excuse to slap strike or hit a woman in any way.
He has since apologized.
showed his true colours there…what a fraud…he’s supposed to be Divine…divinely pissed off obviously.
Maria, thank you for your beautifully worded support of my statement about the Catholic Church and their shameful role in the persecution and decimation of the Jews (and many others) during this time in Europe. They have no moral credibility in my book.
Ask anyone taught by a Jesuit priest. Yes, they will smack you if you’re out of line.
Pope Francis is a very old man. You can be no catholic or whatever, but the woman performs an act of violence against an elder man. She made him feel pain and could have hurt him severely. Why is nobody talking about that? Doesn’t he have the right of reacting or even defending himself? ¿Did she apologize as he did?