Jodie Turner Smith won’t raise her child in America: ‘White supremacy is overt’

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Just before Christmas, Jodie Turner-Smith confirmed several pieces of news which many of us already suspected: she and Joshua Jackson did get married at some point, likely in the late summer of 2019, and she was expecting the couple’s first child. Around the same time, she talked a lot about how she’d been living in America since she was a kid, and the thought of going back to live permanently in the UK – where she was born – was not on her agenda. But she still didn’t have American citizenship, and she was considering applying for citizenship around the birth of this child. Well, looks like she now has other thoughts. From an interview she did with the Sunday Times (via People):

Why she doesn’t want to raise her child in America: “The racial dynamics over here are fraught. White supremacy is overt. It’s the reason I don’t want to raise my kids here,” Turner-Smith told the publication. She added: “I don’t want my kids to grow up doing active shooter drills at school.” As to where they’ll possibly go? “England has gone off the rails,” the British actress said, “so I was thinking maybe Canada.”

On her marriage: “I haven’t said to anybody, ‘Yeah, we got married.’ People are assuming whatever they want, but when people tell me ‘Congratulations’, I say ‘Thank you’. ”

Moving to America after growing up in England: “So I was really excited when I came to America about meeting black people. But it was a huge culture shock, because I was rejected by the black community. They were like, ‘You talk like a white girl.’ People would call me an Oreo. All I wanted was acceptance,” she said. When she moved to the U.S., Turner-Smith said she “would practice in the mirror, talking in a way that I thought was like black American: cutting you down with my words in five seconds if you came for me.”

Marrying a white man: “There was this wave of people who were upset that I was possibly married to a white man. In America interracial dating or marriage is not something that is as accepted. Certain people feel strongly against it, in both communities. I felt it from the black community. It is so complicated. I don’t want to give it too much energy. The horrific things that people were saying, it makes you. … I’m learning there are certain things I have to really keep for myself.”

On Joshua Jackson: “We are obsessed with each other,” said Turner-Smith, who admitted she “went back and rewatched a lot of [Joshua’s] movies. I do it whenever we’re apart because I miss him so much. He loves that I am obsessed with him.” Referencing her pregnancy, she added, “Joshua tells me every day, ‘The way you’re handling this is incredible.’ He’s more tired than I am.”

[From People]

Joshua and Jodie really do seem obsessed with each other, and they went from casual to crazy-serious about each other in what felt like a month. When you know, you know. And Joshua’s old movies are good! She should watch the first few seasons of Dawson’s Creek. As for what she says about race and racism and the white supremacy in America…yeah, I’m not going to argue with her. Donald Trump’s presidency has brought the worst out of a lot of people, and a lot of racists, bigots, homophobes and misogynists feel empowered to do and say as they please.

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142 Responses to “Jodie Turner Smith won’t raise her child in America: ‘White supremacy is overt’”

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  1. Erinn says:

    This was really cute. I hope she has a healthy, easy pregnancy and delivery.

    I have developed a major Joshua Jackson crush.

  2. Ali says:

    Well if she wants raise her kids in Canada there will be issues there as well.

    • ME says:

      As a poc raised in Canada, I can definitely say her kids will have issues here. Why do people think racism doesn’t exist here? My whole childhood was filled with it and I still deal with it as an adult. Maybe she should look into how Indigenous people in Canad have been and continue to be treated. I don’t know but people need to stop acting like Canada is this new found fairytale land where everything is perfect. Nope.

      • Ali says:

        I think the difference is in Canada discrimination is not out in the open.

        I’ve spoken to white people and they are blind to it.

    • caty says:

      As an indigenous person (Mohawk) I can say with 1000% certainty that I would much rather be in Canada than the US. I could have American citizenship if I so choose and I will never ever choose to exercise that option. For indigenous people at least, it really is a case of choosing the lesser of the evils, and in most cases Canada is the lesser evil.

      • Angela82 says:

        Agree. Canada isn’t perfect by any means but it is far better than America when it comes to women, POC, LGBTQ, social issues, social programs, healthcare, etc etc.

    • sunny says:

      Fair point. I would say that as a black Canadian I actually am conscious of fearing for my life when in America but not so much here- though Canada has huge problems with racism and is in the case of Jodie and Joshua’s child, Canada is pretty anti-black. Generally your choices as a BIPOC aren’t great anywhere.

  3. HK9 says:

    As a Canadian who is a black woman, I don’t know how to tell her this, but outside of major city centres in Canada, it’s not that much better. We have our own race relations issues, and it just takes a quick history lesson to see that the way Canada treated & still treats Indigenous Canadians, (and BTW there was slavery in Canada too which most Canadians refuse to unpack) white supremacy is here as well. Soo, while I’m glad to have her in Canada, it’s not that much better. We just don’t have as many guns.

    • Mia4s says:

      I always love when my fellow Canadians respond like this (always self-deprecating 😁). But as someone who has lived abroad and travelled extensively it really seems to boil down to this when people are looking in from the outside:

      Are we a country with deep seeded issues of systematic racism and prejudice that will still require incredible work to even begin to overcome, leading to POCs continuing to feel vulnerable?


      Are we pretty much the best of not great options right now?


      I understand her thinking and she has no easy options. I hope she finds what she needs to at least feel hopeful.

    • Chimney says:

      As a Black american who lived in Canada for several years, it’s strange to me that you could even equate the two. Canada will really have to stretch its legs before it even comes close to the anti-Black racism of the US. In Canada I never got more than a few huffy looks. In the US I was first called the n word by a grown man at age 8 and called disgusting to my face by a racist woman just over the summer bc I was with my white husband. You simply can’t compare the two for day to day racism. Systematically they both blow though. But I get why she doesn’t want to face unending American style racism while trying to grow a baby.

      • BabsORIG says:

        Totally agree @Chimney. I’m a immigrant naturalized Canadian WOC. I arrived in BC in late 1990s and later moved to Toronto after moving to and living in Calgary living for a year (there’s more diversity and thus tolerance of POC in Toronto than in western Canada). Calgary has the most discriminative folks I’ve ever come across tbh. But my first experience with racism and racial discrimination was in Vancouver and it was from immigrants themselves. I and my family were welcomed with open arms (and open minds) by both First Nations peoples and caucasian folks in Vancouver. We lived in Burnaby and in Surrey and went to Chilliwack and Hope on many occasions but the most racist people in that part of Canada were Asian immigrants. So I’m not saying there’s no racism in Canada, there is lots of it. But you can’t compare our country to the US where people are shot on the streets on a daily basis just because they’re black or brown people and white Americans perceive them as “threats to our lives” just because of their skin color.

      • Scotchy says:

        I am a beige Canadian that was raised in small town Canada. Northern and Interior BC to be exact. The slurs and violence I endured growing up mixed in these towns is absolutely on par with racism in the US. If you live in Canadian urban centers such as Toronto, Montreal and Vancouver the racism will be more passive. You live outside those areas you might get shot at. I know from experience. So yes it can be bad here and like fellow posters here I am a little perturbed by this Canadian fantasy those that are not actually from here have. No western country is ideal. Period.

    • ZanB says:

      Yes racism (and it’s passive-aggressive cousin “systemic racism”) still exists in Canada, but in the major cities it’s minimal and many cultures inter-mix. My best friend is from Vietnam. My husband is Italian. My parents are from Trinidad & Tobago. And I love it here! I live in Toronto, but have also lived in small towns where my family was one of only two black families! I’ve lived in Canada’s capital (Ottawa), and in rural Quebec. I speak both French and English. I feel wanted and accepted! Did I say that I LOVE IT HERE!!!

      My talent has been recognized, appreciated and celebrated. Although I have experienced overt racism in my work (to the extent that my career stalled for several years), my personal resolve continues to propel me on a path of success. I am grateful for the opportunity to open more doors and to keep them open for those that follow…

      • Erinn says:

        This kind of experience warms my heart. That’s what I WANT to think people are taking away from Canada, and I know there’s so many people who don’t have that kind of experience, and it truly bothers me. I’m so glad that you’ve found your happy place here.

        We have a LOT of the passive aggressive racism. It’s really not better, but I do think compared to the culture in a lot of the US, we are better at the very least in comparison. Definitely not perfect. Definitely still have horrible people saying and doing horrible things. I live in a small fishing community, so I don’t get much of a look at the city experience. But whenever I do go in to Halifax, I’m always amazed at the sheer diversity of our population. And my god, it just elevates so much of life! You have so much more variety in traditions, food, clothing, etc. and that just makes life so much more fun and interesting for EVERYONE.

      • HK9 says:

        I’ve had great experiences too in rural Ontario….I just didn’t want her to think that Canada is a utopia because we still have our problems, but yes, I love peeps up here in Canada.

      • Col says:

        Erinn, I’m interested in your experience in small town NS and glad that its been positive. What I’ve read about small towns (with no direct experience) is that they aren’t always welcoming of outsiders, even of the same race/province. I’m a white person from Halifax (now in Toronto) and my husband pointed out that according to wikipedia, Halifax is about 95 white. I was surprised by this, as my high school was much more diverse than that. (Over 10% Arabic immigrants alone.) Also lots of multi-cultural restaurants, although I know they can’t be used to measure population diversity.

      • Cheryl says:


    • kerwood says:

      @HK9, Agreed. We Canadians like to compare ourselves to Americans when it comes to racism because we usually come out look MUCH better. But Canada is no slouch when it comes to racism. All you have to do is ask our Indigenous brothers and sisters. Canada didn’t have wars with it’s indigenous populations like the Americans did. No, we simply had the Hudson’s Bay Company send loads of blankets infected with smallpox out west. By the time the railway made it there, most of the indigenous people were already dead and too weak to fight. THAT’S the Canadian way.

      I think Ms. Turner-Smith’s husband has sold her a bill of goods about race relations in Canada. It might be because he doesn’t know any Black people in Canada so he has no idea about what things are REALLY like.

      • Yup, Me says:

        “I think Ms. Turner-Smith’s husband has sold her a bill of goods about race relations in Canada. It might be because he doesn’t know any Black people in Canada so he has no idea about what things are REALLY like.”

        Much like Prince Harry did with Meghan, I think.

    • Adrianna says:

      Gun crime is escalating in Canada. Knives used to be the weapon of choice but if you look at the stats, gun homicides are much more frequent now. All the gang members have them. Meth and guns is now the deadly combo taking over Canadian cities. If you said violent crime was rampant you wouldn’t be wrong.

      • ME says:

        100% agree with you. Violence and the use of guns and drugs is on the rise in Canada at an alarming rate. I live in a small town and our rates have gone up. We had a kid bring a gun to school just a month or so ago looking to shoot another student. This is something I didn’t have to worry about as a kid, but now it’s becoming more and more common.

    • kerwood says:

      @Erinn, a friend of mine is from Nova Scotia. His family has been in Canada for more than 10 generations. He has some very shocking stories to tell. The African-Canadian experience in Nova Scotia is something we Canadians rarely hear about but we need to learn.

      I once led a campaign to teach more African-Canadian history in Toronto schools and the resistance was amazing. Did you know that Samuel de Champlain (the White man given credit for DISCOVERING Canada) was accompanied by a Black man? His name was Mathieu da Costa.

    • zotsioltar says:

      Also, isnt it harder to immigrate to Canada? Say what you want about the US, but Canada is even tougher I thought.

      • Miumiiiu says:

        I don’t know if it’s harder. But she’s wealthy and married to a wealthy Canadian. So it’s easy as he’s Canadian and also because they can do it the most effective way as they can hire a good lawyer. Also as an accomplished in demand actress if she still needed a work visa she could get one, as many movies and shows are filmed in Canada’s large cities. It’s a very reasonable idea to raise a child there. As a dual citizen I love the US but wouldn’t raise kids there unless the gun laws and health care happen. Too risky and stressful.

      • ME says:

        Canada has a low population rate. We are begging for more immigrants. It isn’t that hard to come here. Trudeau has made it much easier to immigrate here. Now if the Conservatives win the next election that might change.

      • BabsORIG says:

        Hhmm, @Chimney, yr last comment is interesting. I know a good number of Africans that said African Americans look down on them and have a lot of times blamed said Africans for slavery.because “African chiefs sold their people into slavery” etc. I think every person’s experience is unique, and ms. Smith’s is unique to her as a dark skinned immigrant child living in the US at the time when she was growing up. But maybe she shouldn’t paint ALL African Americans with such a broad brush? 🤷🏽‍♀️🤷🏽‍♀️

    • Yup, Me says:

      I thought her responses about Canada and Black Americans were overly simplistic. As an African American woman who has an African step-father (and so, has spent quite a bit of time in African communities in America), one of the most aggravating (and disrespectful) things is when people come from outside and think they can speak on Black America without actually knowing or understanding the magnificent diversity of us as a group. They end up sounding as bigoted as white people.

      It’s especially vexing when she is coming to America and making money playing African American women in films.

      I’m looking at you, too, Cynthia Erivo.

      • Chimney says:

        @Yup Me
        Yeah I’ve noticed this too. There is a tendency for Africans in america to look down on us regular degular Black Americans. Like cut us some slack, we’re recovering from slavery and Jim Crow and have a lot of defense mechanisms in place (toxic or otherwise).

        These school yard taunts that stuck with her are how black kids put up armor against a hostile world.

    • Nahema says:

      I kind of feel like if anything racism is getting worse everywhere rather than better and the divide is widening. Isn’t that a huge driving force behind Trump getting elected and Brexit (mixed with maybe a larger dose of xenophobia). I really feel like we are heading in the wrong direction everywhere and it’s heartbreaking.

  4. Stacy Dresden says:

    What an attractive couple. Her skin color is gorgeous. Good luck to them

  5. Momof2rats says:

    From what she is quoted it sounds like she is getting more racism from blacks. They wouldn’t accept her because she sounded “white” and they don’t like that she married a white guy? Come on people, stop judging people by their color. Sigh…

    She is gorgeous and I love him. What a great couple.

    • BlueSky says:

      I also think she is referring to when she posted on Twitter(??) where she said she was being called a “bed wench” when it was announced they were married. I assumed from her comments that most of the hate was coming from BM.

      (BW here) It’s very hypocritical when black men side eye BW who date WM but get angry if anyone dares say anything when they date WW.

      • Mumbles says:

        “Bed Wench”…I’ve never heard that expression before. A UK thing?

      • eto says:

        It refers to the women who were given preferential treatment for sleeping with/being raped by the slave master.

      • schmootc says:

        Oh, that’s just nasty. Jesus, what is wrong with people? I will never understand why people get all bent out of shape over someone else’s love life. It’s not your business! Why do they care so much?

      • Nahema says:

        It’s gross but there is a huge feeling within the black community that you need to stay in your black lines and dating outside of that is kind of treasonous. That’s the only way I can think to describe it. It’s crazy, also racist and mostly perpetuated by black men but of course like any propaganda, the opinion will transfer to impressionable people surrounding them. This isn’t a blame game though. Just look at he reasons why black people might feel this way. We’ve all still got a long way to go.

    • Leigh says:

      I don’t think she is saying that she’s experienced more racism from black people. I think she’s just saying that it was difficult for her as an immigrant to assimilate into the black community because of her accent, different cultural background, etc… I also grew up with black people in this country telling me that I “sounded white” and looked “stuck up,” etc…. but that was nothing compared to dealing with the racism I’ve encountered from white people – even from some who called themselves my friends.

    • Valiantly Varnished says:

      Black people cant be racist towards other black people. That’s not how racism works. What she experienced via Twitter specifically was a lot of anger and judgement from black men for being with a white man and bot being with “one of her own”. It was vile and full of misogynoir. Anti-blackness and colorism exist within the black community but racism is a systemic power structure and the two should nit be conflated.

      • Momof2rats says:

        Valiantly, I know black people can’t be racist toward other blacks. But by saying she is not equal to them because she sounds “white” and by insulting her for marrying a white man, they are being racist toward whites. That is what I don’t understand. You should marry whomever you love and you should not be judged by your accent but rather your words.

        No one should insult anyone based on how they look.

      • Valiantly Varnished says:

        @Momof2rats there is mo such tbing as being racist towards whites either. Because again – racism is a power structure. Reverse racism is not a real thing. Can a black person be prejudiced towards a white person? Yes. But racist? No.

      • Hotsauceinmybag says:

        @Momof2rats black people can’t be racist towards whites. They may be able to hold deep seated prejudices towards them but they absolutely cannot be racist towards whites. For that to happen they’d need to have social, political and economic upper hand over whites, which we know is not the case. Please come correct next time.

      • CC says:

        I wish people would understand the words they use better. You are talking about institutional racism as opposed to ‘racism’. The power dynamics come in when you are talking about institutional racism.

        Racism pure and simple is just the prejudice and discrimination directed towards a person or persons of different races. Thus, you can be a minority and be racist against another minority.

      • Yup, Me says:

        @CC. Nope.

        But I agree, it would be great if people knew what they were talking about before they decided to interject.

      • Nahema says:

        I respectfully disagree. Although I understand what is meant and institutional racism is a thing on it’s own, the definition of racism is
        “prejudice, discrimination, or antagonism directed against someone of a different race based on the belief that one’s own race is superior”.

        So the white folks are entirely alone with their institutional racism but racism in general is something which anyone of any colour is capable of.

    • SheaButterBaby says:

      This type of racism is still a result of internalized hate due to white supremacy. It’s a vicious cycle and we are all so messed up.

      • Christina says:

        Yes, it is, Sheabutterbaby. Jodie spent time growing up here, and was not automatically accepted by Black people because racism pushes Black people in the U.S. to code switch, to change themselves (straighten hair, etc.) to make white people feel comfortable. It still doesn’t work, so there is resentment when someone like her comes into the Black American community. A lot of people are hurt because they aren’t accepted as they are by the larger society.

        When you grow up with people who look like you, or in a diverse community where everyone is more likely to be viewed as equal (Toronto, Hawaii), you have a confidence that is challenged in the United States, but you haven’t internalized it like Black and brown people who have grown up here have. A friend of mine from Honduras, who looks like a light skinned Black woman, had never been called Black before she came here. Friends at my job who are African carry themselves differently, with the fearlessness that I see in white people, with an expectation that they deserve promotions and respect and they command it like I see in whites, and my African friends many times don’t quite understand Black Americans or their grievances, but they grew up without the psychological damage of unrelenting, overt racism or colorism within their communities.

        African Americans are processing a lot of racism, and it can make some reject people like Jodie and Meghan Markle and Ayesha Curry. I have a cousin who was angry at politically active Mexicans because he felt rejected by our Mexican American community where we grew up (a low-income Black and brown community) and I told him that he had to acknowledge that he and I can pass for white, and whiteness brings privileges that Black and Brown-skinned people do not get here. On TV, most of the Black and brown women featured look mixed race, with long straightened hair and lighter skin. It’s starting to change a bit, but not enough to counteract the cruel programming.

      • Yup, Me says:


        It’s interesting, though, that we see the impact of racism in things like premature births in African American woman. Black American women have higher rates of premature births than any other group in the US. (incidentally, premature Black baby girls have higher survival rates than any other group, as well). But when African women move to America and begin to have children, within a couple generations, their grand-daughters are having similar rates of premature birth.

        This is true, even when you adjust for education, socioeconomic status and marital status.

      • Christina says:

        Yup, me, a few generations here and, yes, you become like all of us raised here managing the psychological scars.

        There is research, completed in the Bay Area, about health outcomes by race. White, Black, and Latinx Americans, regardless of socio economic status, had lower survival rates and higher rates of disease than new immigrant Hispanics. The Hispanics here, mostly from Mexico, have strong family ties. The researchers argued that the close ties helped relive stress from discrimination. The girls born from those families, raised here, had the highest suicide rates. The explanation was that those girls were straddling two worlds, more cognizant of racism and being raised in a society with more social freedoms for girls. Mexicans can be very misogynistic, and girls are controlled. Women and girls must be beautiful, but angelic. Classic Madonna-whore stuff.

      • ANNIE says:


        Christina, your comment was so perfectly articulated. Thank you!!

    • Emmitt says:

      I don’t doubt she wasn’t accepted by the black people she encountered; she is/was a stranger to them (just like Stephan Curry’s wife Ayesha, who is/was Canadian). But, why did she expect to be accepted by “the black community?” It seems like she was doing some racial projection of her own. Dusty incels on Twitter calling her a “bedwench” does not equal “the black community.”

      • kerwood says:

        @Emmitt, Thank you. I think it’s interesting that a Black woman is ready to throw out the entire African-American community because of what a few Black people have done. I get the feeling that her comments aren’t meant for Black people.

        I once saw an interview with Toni Morrison and she said that one of the ways that immigrants gained acceptance in American society is to claim that they have problems with African-Americans. Every immigrant group has done it up to this day. Even Black people, such as West Indians and Africans have tried the same approach. I don’t know how well it works for them because the majority population STILL sees them as BLACK no matter where they come from.

      • Valiantly Varnished says:

        She came over to the US as a child. She went to high school and college in the US, She is now 33. So I highly doubt her comments were just about online Twitter trolls. I think those years give her a pretty clear picture of the black community and how she felt within it. And let’s be real here. A lot of what she encountered probably had a lot to do with her deep skin tone and the colorism that is pervasive within the black community. Dark skin black women get treated differently period.

      • wisca says:

        She could not have grown up in NYC where the black diaspora is just that DIASPORIC & hence diverse.

  6. deezee says:

    Well I know they both work in the States but neither are American so they don’t have ties. And education wise, both went to school in different cultures too so maybe they’re weighing what they remember about the UK/Cda system with what they’ve learned about the US system and decided against it. Nothing wrong with that. And while racism is definitely still a thing in Canada, I’ve never seen it as institutionalized here as when visting the States. I see a lt more freedom of movement with people living with and experiencing people and cultures from around the world. Something I rarely see in the States outside of Manhattan.

  7. Mar says:

    Honestly she sounds a bit jaded to me. I have a black husband and it’s absolutely accepted around me -and I have many friends In the same situation. I think it really depends where in America you are taking about to say it’s not accepted.

    • Valiantly Varnished says:

      Uhhh no. She’s not jaded. She is speaking real truths. And a reminder that yours and your husband’s experiences aren’t necessarily anyone else’s. She is a dark skinned black woman in America dating a white man. Which is far less accepted than a black man dating a white woman. Misogynoir and colorism are real. And you wouldn’t have any experience with either of those two things as a non-black woman in America.

      • kerwood says:

        @Valiantly Varnished, It’s not surprising. My experience (notice I said MY experience) whenever I dated a White men was that I would have problems with Black men and White women.

      • Christina says:

        VV and Kerwood, no lies told.

      • Abby says:

        Uh, no, Mar was simply expressing *her* experience as a woman in an interracial marriage. She did NOT say she has had the same experience as a black woman would. Sorry to tell you this, VV and kerwood and several others, but people (even PoC) have different experiences than you do, and—get this!—they have every bit as much right as you do to share them without being bullied, ganged up on, and labeled as racists. Racism is SUCH a real, serious, heartbreaking issue, why do you cheapen it by insisting on finding it virtually everywhere, among the meekest of comments, if they dare to slightly differ from your own experience/opinion? You make a mockery out of something you clearly—and rightfully–take quite seriously by hearing “dog whistles” so often where there is NOT racism—you and several others here. And, by the way, kerwood, in MY experience, when dating black men, the group who gives me the most grief for it are black women. (“Dog whistle,”there? It must be very noisy, being you.)But, you apparently don’t care to accept the fact that whites are not a monolith, far from it. I know that blacks are not a monolith, and I have never regarded them as such. Be very careful, then, when you use the word “bigot”, as from this and others posts I’ve read of yours and Valiantly Varnished, you two are among the biggest, most bullying bigots here.

      • Valiantly Varnished says:

        @Abby funny how you feel the need to mention dog whistling while calling the two opinionated black women on the thread bullies and bigots. The irony is astounding. And literally no one called Mar a bigot. That’s you projecting.

      • Chimney says:

        @Abby Thank you for perfectly demonstrating how white supremacy works and stays in power. Black people cant talk about actual experiences with racism if one white person says “ I don’t see it that way” or “I’ve never encountered this racism you speak of”. Now you get to paint the black users here as seeing racism ~everywhere~ and being bigoted themselves. Your argument is ridiculous and you don’t have the depth or the range to speak on anti-black racism in America.

      • kerwood says:

        @Abby, Oh dear. Kate is that you?

        Do ‘loud’ Black women press some buttons for you? It sounds like you’re working something out. Best of luck with your struggle.

    • Chimney says:

      @Mar She’s not “jaded” just bc she’s not onboard with America’s deep love of white supremacy. There is no where in America that’s immune to it. I’m sure your husband doesn’t always feel “ absolutely accepted “ at all moments like you say. Especially if he is black and alive and aware of his surroundings.

    • lucy2 says:

      I would venture to guess that you and your husband are very fortunate then. Jodie’s experience unfortunately has been different.

    • Christina says:

      @Mar, there are safe spaces, but most mixed race couples get hit with it eventually. If you stay around people who love you both, you are less likely to experience bias. I think it’s likely that your husband has.

      @Abby, Black women have the right to speak their truth, just like Mar has the right to share her’s. But the analysis by VV and Kerwood will be painful to people who don’t live what they live. A lot of good people don’t see how they benefit from entrenched racism and colorism and they feel attacked when it’s pointed out. These discussions bother you, but maybe that’s a good thing. I don’t know you or your cultural background because you haven’t shared it, but, if you are white or look white, you have privilege that obviously Black-looking people don’t have. I’m Mexican American and I look white, but I have many loved ones who suffer from racism. I’ve walked into places with Black friends and family and have watched them be discriminated against while I got my ass kissed. It’s real, and there aren’t many safe spaces for people of color, especially Black people, to discuss this stuff.

      Valiantly Varnished and Kerwood don’t need me to protect them, but I feel like you don’t really understand what they are saying. What you are saying is familiar to many of us because we understand and have seen the effects of shutting down these discussions, hurt feelings at best, death at worst.

      • kerwood says:

        @Christina, I appreciate your comment. I’ve enjoyed reading what you have to say.

        If the last 2 years have shown us ANYTHING, it’s that Black women have to be there for themselves AND each other because there ain’t nobody else who’s going to step up.

        God bless Ms. Turner-Smith. I support her search for a place where White supremacy doesn’t exist. And if she finds it, I hope she lets us know. Her money and fame will be a buffer. But I have a feeling that she’s going to get her heart broken.

    • Christina says:

      @Kerwood, thank you.

      These things keep me up at night. I wish that they didn’t, but they do. I grew up in the Black community in the United States. My daughter is a light-skinned black woman whose identity is constantly challenged. I have a responsibility to stand up when I see it. It’s life and death. What happened to Sandra Bland haunts me, watching a Mexican American police officer talk to her that way, and her murder. We all have a responsibility to really discuss and understand.

    • Joanna says:

      I have a black husband, I am white. I wish I lived where you live lol. The mildest we get is covert looks and stares. One of our neighbors assumed I was paying all the bills and told my husband he had a nice set up. I usually get dirty looks from white guys my age. I go places without my husband, come next time w him and the reception is definitely cooler. He gets stares wherever we go. He’s big too, sometimes I wonder how much worse it would be if he was not so big. We went out to eat at Outback on Valentine’s Day. There was a young couple in camouflage clothing with their baby. They stared at us the whole time we were there. We pretty much ignore it. I might say something to him but we don’t say anything to the people. If we did, it would just escalate. And my husband is very muscular, if someone laid a hand on me, he could cause real damage by hitting them. So we just try to ignore it. It was a real shock to me, I never got any of that when I dated white guys.

      @abby, wtf? ! No one was jumping on the white woman. Put your pitchfork away. Take off your Cape, you don’t need to rescue anyone. If white girl can’t handle their mild comments WHICH ARE NOT BIGOTED, God help her in real life. And no offense to her but she is either very unaware or very lucky if she doesn’t have any problems being in a mixed relationship

  8. Juls says:

    Is….is he wearing a hairpiece?

    • Miumiiiu says:

      Didn’t notice but now I see it. (The hair)

      Culture in Vancouver is different than any American city that I’ve visited (including large and nearby cities like Seattle and San Francisco). There is racism everywhere but yeah it won’t be the same thing, some aspects may be worse (idk what but its possible- like maybe stupid questions since the percentage of black people is low- but also being rich and in the arts they would probably not roll with a lot of ignorant people) and it sounds like she is aware of some aspects that will be better. She’s pretty clear, it’s OVERT in the us. Doesn’t mean she thinks it’s only in the US. To me it will improve the culture of Vancouver if couples like them and H+M choose it as their home.

      • kerwood says:

        Have you ever asked yourself WHY the number of Black people in Vancouver is low?

      • Miumiiiu says:

        Yes! Here are some factors: If you’re not from BC and don’t have the security of family, it’s scary how expensive it is and how the job market is. I’ve known a lot of colleagues who moved back to Quebec or Ontario. (Becuase it’s not worth it.) The Americans I’ve known were basically rich, like my dr who’s husband is a business man, or a friend who was supported by her wealthy American father though she also had a professional job. More black immigrants from Africa or Caribbean will choose closer places that already have a community or family. Toronto and Montreal are closer than Vancouver to the Caribbean and Vancouver. Vancouver is physically small, rent is really up there in price, home ownership is not too attainable for anyone unless they got in early or want a small place in the suburbs… and the suburbs have a lot of pretty meh places. Personally ive already left Vancouver so I can give you a ton of reasons why anyone wouldn’t want to live there unless they’re quite wealthy or have a large extended family to support them in various ways, which is often the case for people from Asia. Jodie can afford Vancouver, i don’t know if she’d love it due to the lack of people who are black. I have no idea how she would feel but it sounds like she likes the idea at this point. Or maybe they don’t mean Vancouver

      • BabsORIG says:

        @Miumiiu, from my experience as a black woman, having lived in Vancouver, Calgary and then Misdissauga, I found no significant differences in the cost of living, from housing to groceries etc. The prices are all the same regardless. The difference IMO is that it’s not easy to find employment do people struggle more d/t lack of jobs. In terms of racism and discrimination, I experienced racism more in Vancouver and Calgary than here in Toronto, but that’s my experience.

    • Valiantly Varnished says:

      No it’s just unfortunate styling. He has really curly hair and whoever styled it here did a terrible job. But he definitely still has a full head of hair which you can see in recent pap photos of him and Jodie together.

  9. Margo Smith says:

    Yeah Canada! Im raising my kids in Toronto and love it here so much!!

  10. Faithmobile says:

    I love my Bay Area Bubble. My family is mixed: black, Mexican, Puerto Rican and white, The Bay Area is the only place we feel safe. Some of my family bought houses inland and hour and were chased in the car after making a wrong turn and terrorized by some mega *sshole. Inland California is not the same as the coastal cities, it sucks because it’s really expensive. All that being said, I’m assuming Canada is the same.

    • Sunnee says:

      Same here, I live in and love the Bay Area. Grew up in NYC and have been all over the U.S. and nothing compares to how it feels to live here. My kids were born and raised here and count themselves lucky, esp after trying to live elsewhere. Collectively they have lived in Austin, FL, NYC, Costa Rica, Honolulu, Santa Barbara, Portland, and have had not so good experiences (to put it mildly).
      With the recent tech boom some newcomers are bringing their racism from elsewhere but for the most part it is a lovely bubble.

    • deezee says:

      No, not the same.

    • Christina says:

      I raised my Mexican/African American kid here in the Bay Area, and she hated it. We live near Berkeley, and the area has a history of KKK folks. A lot of houses in Berkeley have deeds that prohibit selling to anyone who is not white and new deeds have it removed, but you don’t see them until the house is sold from the originally racist family.

      My kid’s been told to go back to her Country, and my Black friends get a lot of racism. A white businessman confronted my Black niece and her friends on transit in San Francisco and an older Black woman and a younger white lady with a yoga mat came to their aid. Nia Wilson was murdered by a racist white man when he stabbed her and her sister not far from here at the MacArthur BART station. It’s always been here and it’s getting worse because of Trump and the tech people who come here trying to transform neighborhoods to make themselves more comfortable, i.e., whiter.

  11. Valiantly Varnished says:

    I don’t blame her one bit. Joshua us Canadian so that would be an easy place to set down roots.
    I really love them as a couple. They are so cute on social media and they seem to genuinely adore each other.

    • Tiffany :) says:

      I don’t blame her either. She is sharing her experience, and we should listen and believe her.

  12. Jan says:

    Canadian here in Toronto. (Caucasian). I can’t imagine growing up without diversity. I LOVE that people see Canada as a safe haven. It’s not perfect – but it’s pretty awesome. Healthcare & education make a HUGE difference in your sense of security, which influences your outlook & behaviour.

  13. kerwood says:

    I find it very interesting when Black people from England claim that they face more discrimination from African-Americans than they do from White people. To be honest, I find it very hard to believe.

    As a Canadian living in the US for quite some time, I often had African-Americans ask me where I was from because I had a Canadian accent but I NEVER in all the years I lived in the States, heard ANY African-American ever use the word ‘Oreo’ to describe ANYBODY. I just don’t believe that. In my experience, Americans are fascinated by British accents, African-Americans included, but it was always positive. I got the feeling they thought it was cute. Many Americans seem to be surprised by Anglo-Africans because, until very recently, we rarely saw images of Black people in the UK. Very few Black people on Masterpiece Theatre.

    If Ms. Turner-Smith thinks Canada is the place to raise her child free from racism, I fear her husband has lied to her. Growing up in Canada, I always thought that if I had children, I would raise them in the Caribbean. So, good luck to her and her child.

    Edited to add: I also want to say that the African-Americans that I knew in the US ALWAYS welcomed me with open arms. I felt more accepted in the US than I EVER felt at home in Canada or in England. I’m sorry that Ms. Turner-Smith had a different experience because some of the happiest years of my life are the years I spent in the US, thanks to my African American brothers and sisters.

    • Sunnee says:

      Kerwood, please. Your experience is not the litmus test. My husband who is biracial was called an Oreo in school, day in day out. He was also called a zebra. He was born and raised in Southern California. It happens. For you not to believe her is ridiculous.

      • Genessee says:

        Yep. Los Ángeles here. My friend was called Oreo to his face for years by most of his coworkers because he didnt speak “ghetto-like” and was highly educated. It does happen.

      • kerwood says:

        @Sunnee, that’s why I made the point of REPEATEDLY saying that it was MY experience. You might have missed that.

      • Leigh says:

        @Sunnee – Exactly. I’m not sure where Kerwood lived in the US, but I was called a lot of names while growing up biracial in Florida.

    • eto says:

      Speaking from firsthand experience, I’ve never been called an oreo by a black person either. Not invalidating Jodie’s experience, just giving our own.

      • Alinya says:


        There’s a difference between saying your previous experiences weren’t that.

        But @ Kerwood above finished with “I don’t believe that” – that’s the big difference. No big sharing experiences but to say “I don’t believe her’ I mean come on now smh

    • ab says:

      It’s strange to say you flat out don’t believe her just because you’ve had a different experience. I grew up in Ohio in the ’80s/’90s and was called an oreo many times, starting in probably elementary school. Coming from black kids at my church and white kids at school. It’s a pretty common grade school taunt.

    • Goldie says:

      @Kerwood, I think it’s worth noting that Jodie moved to the US as a child. So yeah I can believe she was called an Oreo. It’s a common insult amongst school children. I get where you’re coming from though. Some Black British and African immigrants complain about not being accepted by the African-American community, and while I don’t want to invalidate their experiences I sometimes wonder if their own biases play a role.
      For instance, my parents are Nigerian immigrants who came to the US in their 20’s. My mom often claims that when she first came to the US, the white people she met were very warm and welcoming, while the black people she met didn’t want to engage as much.
      Here’s the thing-I know my Mom, and she can be very ignorant and stereo typical when she speaks about African-Americans. Sometimes I feel like “You get what you give.” If you believe that you are superior to black Americans, they will pick up on that energy, and of course they aren’t going to be very warm to you. Sadly, there are some black immigrants from other countries who have a superiority complex.
      I’m not saying that was the case with Jodie. Just sharing another experience.

      • Christina says:

        Sunee, AB, Genessee, lots of people in Compton, where I grew up, called other people Oreos if they were interested in school. If you were brown, you were called a Banana. Those are school yard taunts, but adults use them, too.

        I moved my kid to a middle class community in the Bay Area that I thought was diverse (mostly white with about 10% of everyone else) so that she wouldn’t have to contend with what I did: hurt kids rejecting education as a whites-only pursuit because there weren’t social structures in place to support the kids who felt that way. My kid got the racism instead.

      • kerwood says:

        @Goldie, thank you for your comment. And you make a good point. I moved to the US as an adult and dealt with adult African-Americans. I didn’t spend any time in school play grounds so it’s possible I missed all the times that the word ‘oreo’ was being used.

        And I’ve witnessed the same kind of prejudice towards African-Americans from Black people from other places. I’ve seen it in my own family. It’s especially galling when Black people go tothe United States and express disdain for the very people who BUILT the country that they live in.

        I do need to point out that as someone who grew up OUTSIDE the US, words like ‘oreo’ and ‘zebra’ were used by African-Americans on TV shows usually written by White men. That’s how George Jefferson on ‘The Jeffersons’ spoke. A lot of non-American probably believed (probably still do) that that’s the way African-Americans REALLY speak and have incorporated it into their image of African-Americans.

    • Sunee says:

      Kerwood, I didn’t miss that you said your experience. However, I did catch that you said her experience of being called an Oreo was “very hard to believe”. I don’t second guess your experience and my point was you shouldn’t discount hers. Just because you, as a white woman married to a black man, have not had these experiences doesn’t mean she hasn’t. Misogynoir is real. Black women get discrimination from all sides.

      • kerwood says:

        @Sunnee, I think you might want to read my comment again. In fact, you might want to re-read EVERY comment I’ve ever made on Celebitchy because I’m a LOUD AND PROUD BLACK WOMAN and have NEVER claimed or pretended to be anything else.

      • Valiantly Varnished says:

        Kerwood is a Black woman hun. Not a white woman.

      • Jaded says:

        @Sunnee: never assume things. Kerwood is not white, she is proudly black and her comments are intelligent, articulate and spot on.

    • Valiantly Varnished says:

      @kerwood you stating you disbelieve her because that wasn’t your experience is really no different than a white person stating that discrimination didnt exist because it wasnt their experience. Real talk. And I as a light skinned black woman have been called an Oreo before – by black kids! I was also told I “talked like a white girl”. Would you disbelieve MY experience as well??

      • kerwood says:

        @Valiantly Varnished. I apologize. What I said was wrong. I’ve also had my experience dismissed out of hand and I know what it feels like.

        My apologies to you and to anyone else that I’ve hurt.

      • Valiantly Varnished says:

        @Kerwood no worries babe. Thank you for the apology. ❤️

    • Valiantly Varnished says:

      @kerwood And I would never want to raise a child in Caribbean. Between the colorism, misogyny, homophobia and transphobia. No thanks.

      • kerwood says:

        @Valiantly Varnished, well now I’m going to have to agree to disagree with you on this. You can find colorism, misogyny, homophobia and transphobia ANYWHERE but my family is from the Caribbean and I liked the idea of raising kids in a place where Black people were on the money.

        Luckily, that ship has sailed.

      • Moneypenny says:

        I have such mixed feelings about this. We’ve considered moving to Jamaica (my parents came to the US in the 70s) if things in this country continue as they are. While I’d love for my girls to grow up where they are the norm, where they have family, I find it tough. I HATE the colorism (where i’m about Beyonce’s complexion, but darker than most of my family, so my grandmother didn’t like me as much) and hate the idea of my daughters dealing with it, even though they are light skinned and would benefit greatly.

      • Bonsai Mountain says:

        VV, I really admire your comments on this site, but what’s with this sweeping assertion? Are you from the Caribbean? Which part – French, Dutch, English, Spanish? You do know it’s a really diverse and old and complicated region of the world, right? Is there anti-blackness, sure, these are former slave colonies, but you can also learn black history in schools, rather than the whitewashed version, and you can walk down the street without fear of police brutality, and go to university and serve as Prime Minister or President and get health care, and not be excluded from these things because of the colour of your skin. I have black family all over the world, but I never worry about the ones in the Caribbean, so take that for what you will…

      • Valiantly Varnished says:

        @BonsaiMountain my comments are based on the experiences that have been shared with me as well as flat out statistics. The Caribbean has a very high rate of hate crimes against gay and trans people. I will see if I can find the name but there was actually an entire documentary done on it.
        I have dark skinned friends from the region who have talked about the discrimination they have faced. In Jamaica light skin is seen as “better”. Bigotry is a pervasive thing in a lot of places and Im not disputing that but considering how small the islands are I feel like it would be far more acute than it would be in say a large and diverse city. If you love Jamaica and you feel yo family is safe there that’s awesome. But as this thread has highlighted in regards to other places – that isn’t the case for everyone. And for me personally I would not want to raise a family there. But the same goes for places here in the US and overseas as well.

    • Christina says:

      Kerwood, in low-income communities, the taunts are common from people who haven’t accessed prosperity the way that a lot of people have. When I was a kid, I knew lots of kids whose parents were struggling who didn’t go to college. The Black and brown kids who dreamed of college were told that we were trying to be white. Maybe you met African Americans who were middle class.

      • Emmitt says:

        Right, there’s often a class component to the “oreo” taunts: the black kids in college prep classes, whose parents went to college, who were middle/upper middle class, the ones who were in Jack & Jill and attending debutante balls and cotillions …these were not the black kids running around calling other black kids “oreos”.

    • Emmitt says:

      A black person speaking properly or having a foreign accent is generally not the sole reason that person is called an “oreo.” It’s almost always because that black person is seen by the other black people around them as having an affinity for white people/white interests. Most of the time these situations happen in school; if a black person is labeled an Oreo in adulthood it is almost always because they show a preference for white people/white interests, not because they speak properly or have a foreign accent. Black adults aren’t branding other black adults who “speak properly” as “Oreos.”

      As far as interracial dating is concerned, people of all races get flack for stepping outside of their race to choose a mate (Hi Harry & Meghan!), it’s not particular to black people.

      If Jodie Turner-Smith is looking for some racial safe place, I’m afraid she’s not likely to find it. There are going to be good people and bad people of all races. She grew up in the Washington DC metro area which has a good number of interracial relationships. I doubt too many people in LA or NYC would’ve cared either.

      • Christina says:

        Emmitt, all excellent points. I agree completely. Sometimes we just don’t know each other well enough, so the labels come out, but I still think that economic insecurity drives a lot of the name calling when it happens. And yes, the Jack and Jill kids with parents who went to college never saw self improvement as trying to be white.

      • Jaded says:

        My goddaughter is bi-racial, black father and white mother. She was raised in a variety of countries – Germany, Italy, England, the US and Canada. She speaks with a Canadian accent with a few UK intonations and has been told by American blacks that she doesn’t speak “black enough” and is putting on airs. She finds it ridiculous that her decision to not adopt their Ebonics style of speaking is being treated as an insult to the black community. This strikes me as similar to Jodie’s experience moving to the States and having her English accent ridiculed. I don’t think it’s black against black racism per se, I think it’s American blacks feeling they’re being looked down upon by “outsider” blacks who think they’re better than them.

      • Christina says:

        @Jaded, that’s it: feeling like the “other” looks down on them. Your niece is just being herself, but many African Americans don’t see that. That’s the effect of systemic racism. When you are raised to believe you don’t matter, you might think that everyone thinks you don’t matter, especially if they have marks of the oppressor’s culture. This markets have value in this society: lighter skin, a non-American accent. White people may want to hire your niece over a Black woman raised here, and that is very painful to internalize, especially when large swaths of people try to gaslight you into believing that you actually have a far chance.

    • Alinya says:


      “I NEVER in all the years I lived in the States, heard ANY African-American ever use the word ‘Oreo’ to describe ANYBODY. I just don’t believe that.” You, Kerwood, a second ago

      “I just don’t believe that.”

      You don’t BELIEVE her? Seriously? You don’t believe her personal experience as a young black girl & emigre from the UK? You think she’s MAKING IT UP? Girl, what?

      can you look at your above posts & see how hypocritical/contradictory that is to say that, & undermines all the great insight you provided before… I mean really? I can’t tell you how often the word ‘oreo’ gets thrown around, particularly with young black men & women who like ‘nerdier’ stuff like gaming, robots, anime, D&D, other stuff. I just feel like it betrays all the valid things you said before, esp regarding the above Abby poster’s comment.

      And how you address her, Ms Turner Smith…I just feel like you don’t like her, & that’s fine, but it coming thru that way undermines the powerful truths you were conveying earlier.

      To not believe her when sharing her own experience w/colorism, I mean come on. Let’s not do that. Esp w/younger kids that can be so cruel, the term Oreo gets thrown around.

      Not that it’s the same w/this example Since it doesn’t carry the dire historical context/thousands of years of black slavery/abuse worldwide), but I’ve aheard ‘twinkie’ w/regard to asians criticizing other asians who don’t exclusively hang out w/ asian friend groups. It’s interesting too cause I didn’t observe that until post-adolescence. It’s complicated/different ofc, since unlike colorism, it’s almost like an internalized equivalent of ‘culture betrayal’

      Anyway when WoC speak about their experience like this, we need to listen. I know you know this 🙌🏽

      • kerwood says:

        @Alinya, you’re right. Our fellow Celebitcher @Valiantly Varnished pointed out the error in dismissing someone’s personal experience and I apologized.

        I don’t know Ms. Turner-Smith, so I don’t have a feeling for her one way or another. I call her Ms. Turner-Smith because THAT’S HER NAME.

  14. lucy2 says:

    I’m sorry she has experienced such terrible things. I hope they find a place to live and raise their kids that feels safe and comfortable.

    • Christina says:

      Lucy2, I hope so, too, but I think that racism is everywhere unless you don’t have to interact with many strangers. My attempts to protect my kid didn’t work, but I didn’t have the money to move around to try enough places, and I came to a place I thought would be less stressful for her. I wish them luck, but I think it’s best that they prepare their children for how pervasive racism and colorism are.

  15. MellyMel says:

    Black people can and will face racism anywhere in the world, so if you can find a place where it’s not bad or just a very diverse and accepting city/community, the more power to you. The same regarding interracial relationships. I feel fortunate that I live in an area that is like this, but I know it’s not common. Also Joshua and Jodie are absolutely beautiful. That child is gonna be gorgeous!

  16. YAS says:

    When you know, you know. I knew my now-husband was the one after knowing him a month. Fast forward to now and we’ve been together for a decade.

    I’m politically libertarian-adjacent, which means I know people who subscribe to conservative views and are active in conservative political circles. They are, unsurprisingly, overwhelmingly white. One of their favorite activities seems to be to put down people of color who voice how uncomfortable it is for them to live in this country at this time when the veil has been lifted off of white supremacy, which is now more present than ever in our public consciousness. It’s pretty repulsive and underscores how ill-equipped we are a society to deal with this issue. It’s no surprise she doesn’t want to raise her children here. I wish her a happy and healthy pregnancy and hope she and Jackson can find a solution that will best suit their growing family.

    On a superficial note, her bone structure is out of this world.

  17. Wilma says:

    Awww he looks so happy with her!

  18. ME says:

    She is so beautiful. Hey isn’t Joshua Canadian? It would be super easy for them to just live here. They could even have the baby here and the child is automatically Canadian.

  19. Wilma says:

    I always worry about blanket statements like this. I’m from Europe and racism is rampant here and yet we point to the US whenever racism comes up as if only the KKK is obviously racist. To us, racism is physical violence. Yet in my own country there is a test conducted every year in which application letters are sent out to companies using the same content and work experience but different names, very ethnic names and very white names. You know what this test shows year after year. When people state things like this about the US we get complacent and oblivious to our own racism though hate crime is on the rise everywhere.

    • Christina says:

      My daughter left for Europe for college, and I prepared her as best as I could. She was raised in what is supposed to be the most liberal part of the Unites States and experienced a lot of racism. It’s everwhere.

  20. Sarah says:

    Canada’s successfully branded itself as a tolerant winter wonderland, but it’s really not. As a Canadian POC I’ve faced my share of overt and covert racism here throughout my life. Don’t know how to break the news to her but white supremacy is everywhere.

    • Moneypenny says:

      It’s kind of amazing to me–Canada has great PR 🙂

    • kerwood says:

      I moved to a small town in Ontario (just outside of Ontario). It’s hell. Practically every day, I’m greeted by posters bemoaning the decline of the number of European Canadians. This town used to be VERY WHITE but with property prices climbing in the GTA, ALL KINDS of people are moving here. Many of the old-time townies aren’t very happy.

      The racist who put up those posters was too much of a coward to sign them, but I have a few words for him/her. Starting with, since I was born in England, doesn’t that make me EUROPEAN? Boop!

  21. Mia says:

    White supremacy and anti blackness is everywhere even in nations not predominantly white so it is better to face the world as it is and make the best of it instead of living in a la la land. It will be better for our mental health as black people.

    I say this as a black person…the way Americas focal point for dehumanzing polices has been black people as the punching bag, in Canada it is Natives. Yes black people probably have it better in Canada but that does not mean Canada is better than the US. Come tell that to Native people and see what they think about a post racial Canada.I have many Native friends with a bridge to sell her. Many who lost there whole culture and struggle with so many things because of white policies towards them. And on top that get racism from other immigrant groups and poc who buy into the narrative as long as they are not the main punching bag.

    They too label many Natives as lazy and deserving of poor treatment much like African Americans are labelled in the US. They could educate her on the ‘post racial paradise’ of Canada. It is just insulting hearing such statements at this point. Like all these countries have a competition for who are the better white people and who has less blood on their hands from settler colonialism…what a low bar.

    • Lizzieb says:

      @Mia. Great comment. There is absolutely racism in Canada. It may be less overt than elsewhere but it exists. At the bottom of the pile in Canada are First Nation people. It seems to be accepted somehow to show prejudice. Other poc face racism but it is usually more subtle and possibly systemic (though even this seems to be changing in a post trump world. The racists care less about appearing nice). It is blatant, overt and accepted toward anyone Native and it comes from everywhere, even other people of colour.

  22. Guest with Cat says:

    My racial and ethnic mix is complex and I don’t feel like going into it here. I will say there’s no place on this earth where people will just leave you be. If they don’t or can’t “other” you for your racial makeup or your national origin, they’re going to find something else to single out.

    So, the sooner you learn to make your home any space you choose to occupy and then defend it, the faster the assholes will fall in line or move the hell out of your way.

    I think Jodie knows that. She’s expressed the fear of school shootings and that is uppermost on every parent’s mind. My daughter came home from high school and told me what they learned in their active shooter drill that day and I wanted to cry because I remember the nuclear bomb drills I grew up with. We went from that to this. I don’t call that progress. I feel like Greta Thunberg and want to scream at my generation “How dare you!” We should have put an end to the nonsense but we didn’t. Same old same old.

    After enduring and triumphing my self esteem over vicious racism in the 1970’s I saw some hope for better race relations emerge in the 80’s. (I don’t know why it regressed so badly.) I remember one day noticing nobody was hounding me about my race anymore and I could finally enjoy what the pure white and black and asian kids enjoyed of “just being”.

    Because let me tell you, when you’re mixed, or maybe even just look mixed, people never let you “just be” back when I was younger. Day after day “What are you?” Sometimes they don’t even say hello or introduce themselves. I’d be shopping and minding my own business and strangers would walk up and ask “What are you?”

    Depending on what mood I was in, the answer could be pretty colorful. Lol.

    Now of course when I hit my 40’s that all stopped. But I don’t know if it’s because people wised up and that sort of thing finally entered people’s awareness as a micro aggression.

    Or….is it because women over 40 start becoming invisible in society? There are days I think I could get away with all kinds of mischief because society doesn’t see me anymore. I don’t pass for white. I don’t pass for black or brown. I pass for irrelevant. Except of course for the muggers. They notice everything.

    Oh and the doctors notice me. When I was 20 no doctor would pay me any mind. Everything was “anxiety”. Coughing up a lung with undiagnosed asthma? “Oh, honey you’re a female and 23, nothing is wrong with you. It’s anxiety. Here’s a prescription for antidepressants and anxiety medication. Go home and keep on being 23 and female.”

    Now that I’m 53, I just want to go in for a quick checkup and they can’t fuss over me enough. But I’m just about fine compared to the shape I was in at 23. The difference now is I have good health insurance and I have good resting bitch face that reminds everyone of their angry mother and scares them into taking me seriously.

    Sorry I got way off topic there. I’m 53. I’ve seen shit. I’m so over it all. Raise your kids wherever you like the weather and the amenities and can afford the damn taxes and groceries. Shit’s gonna happen wherever so raise them to rise above.

    This is the way. I have spoken.

    Damn, I miss Baby Yoda!

    • tempest prognosticator says:

      @Guest, thanks for sharing this.

      • Guest with Cat says:

        I was worried I was oversharing and I know I definitely rambled. I am just so very tired. I got all excited about the mixed race duchess and it’s so depressing seeing her get run out of Britain. Now I don’t fault Meghan for leaving.

        I realized some of what I posted makes it sound like I could fault her, so I had better clarify. That was more like leaving an abusive relationship than not defending her home space. There are nuances I recognize when you have a crazy tabloid press aligned with malignant racist royal court on your tail.

        I just think in the case of Jodie Turner Smith, writing off a large diverse country like the USA is cutting oneself off from some opportunities to find a true home space. We are a nation that does have a lot of immigrant communities intermingling pretty well.

        I could have had a chip on my shoulder based on my earlier experiences feeling outcast and misfit and othered. Instead, I just looked to find kindred spirits wherever I happened to be and indeed, they do exist in all colors and varieties. I think if she wanted to give it another go, she could possibly find the same for herself and her child. But then with her fame, she might be finding herself in some restrictive bubbles I could not possibly know about.

  23. Lala11_7 says:


    So…she’s saying that she felt rejected by the Black community (as if we’re this HUGE monolithic entity with NO humanity or nuance) who called her Oreo and said she talks White….REALLY? That was her overall experience with EVERYONE who is Black and born and raised in America?

    I’m sick of folks like her…SICK OF IT…and I don’t have to cancel her…because I NEVA paid her no mind….because even before I saw her do ANYTHING on film, when I looked up her bio……I ALREADY KNEW WHAT SHE WAS ON! Now…HOW ABOUT DISCUSSING WHY I ALREADY KNEW WHAT SHE WAS ON…AND WHAT BLOWBACK IS…

    I can’t….

  24. M says:

    Everyone is talking about the racism and she won’t find a not racist society in Canada but that’s only half of what she’s saying. I’m white and I wouldn’t want to raise my children in the US because I’d be terrified they’d get gun downed in school or traumatised by active shooter drills. If you add being poc on top of it, who are getting killed quite regularly for being at the wrong place at the wrong time (or really just being the wrong colour), quite often by the very people meant to protect them… I’d be looking at less life threatening alternatives too, even if that means dealing with other types of racism.

  25. Marianne says:

    Racism exists here in Canada too. I know plenty of Trump lovers that live here….so i can’t say that it really be THAT much better for her. I mean, true I would rather live in Canada over the US. But like….in comparison to the UK…I dont know if her experiences will be that much different.

  26. mew says:

    It’s hard to believe we’re living in 21st century, we’re thinking about conquering space and yet, people can’t let people be, marry who they want and stop discriminating. Do we ever learn?

  27. mash says:

    Mr. Mash and I honeymooned in Niagara Falls Canada this past late summer and experienced colorism (south asians about as brown or darker and east asians than us literally interrupted our convo to demand we tell them about bus scheduled and bumped into us without a excuse me, staring at us like MOVE )—after a low-tone proper cuss out and call out of their rude and colorist mentality and entitlement and telling them they are a LONG WAYS from white they got it together and carried tf on. LOL. I literally dont play when it comes to racism or colorism.

    Now the white middle class/slightly wealthy canadians were mostly cool and intrigued by us. I think they categorized us as a “good type” of black, which is problematic. They would try to convince us to move to canada and all the benefits and smile so damn hard when we answered that we were just married and honeymooning. They also told us about Canada being a haven for our ancestors trying to flee slavery in america, which we already knew and whatnot…

    We had a car and ventured out to the the outskirts in def white neighborhoods and went to a park and they stared but didnt bother us perse.

    Now low-income whites were rude and racism. We went to this sh*hole PWT dinner that looked cool on the outside as its a spaceship. The PWT servers looked like they didnt want to serve us and the food honestly looked like they stepped on it. The waitress literally said — LET ME KNOW WHEN YOU ALL ARE READY TO LEAVE-GET OUT. smh

    To that last note I laughed in her face and told for a tip wrote “get over yourself and your white entitlement”

    other than that, canada was lit and as an American Black who personally knows a black man who was suffering from mental illness and was gunned down by police….Canada is BETTER.