Michelle Obama on the Trump presidency: ‘A lot of our folks didn’t vote’

Barak Obama and Donald Trump arrive for the inauguration of President-elect Donald Trump

It really just occurred to me that Barack Obama still hasn’t delivered a post-presidency book! He’s still working on that sh-t. What in the world has he been doing? Golfing, yachting, playing basketball? Probably. I don’t begrudge Barack and Michelle Obama their peaceful post-presidency lives. They more than earned the right to NOT participate in the political rat infestation of Washington. But of course, tons of professional political operators wish that the Obamas would say or do more during the Trump presidency.

While Barry has been sneaking cigarettes and golfing, Michelle Obama did get her memoir done: Becoming was a HUGE success in 2018-19, selling more than 10 million copies. As part of their Netflix deal, the Obamas also produced a documentary called Becoming, all about Michelle’s book tour and her conversations with young women about her tenure as FLOTUS and the life lessons she’s learned along the way. Here’s the trailer:

This, to me, felt very Oprah-like. I mean that as a compliment, because Oprah is Oprah and it’s very hard to get her sort of aspirational/inspirational vibe complete with legitimate empowerment and that particular kind of New Age-y double-speak. Anyway, to promote this documentary, Michelle chatted with the Daily Beast. There’s one part of this piece that I wanted to discuss:

The remarkable, and some might argue the disappointing, thing about Becoming is that the headlines are few and far between. While Trump is casually referenced from the first minutes and the mood of the country scores the film’s entire conversation, it’s not until roughly two-thirds through the film that she addresses her negative feelings about his 2016 victory directly. Twice, she talks about how painful it is to her that black voters didn’t turn out to vote for Hillary Clinton, calling the decision not to vote more painful to her than those who voted for Trump.

“It takes some energy to go high, and we were exhausted from it. Because when you are the first black anything…,” she said, referencing anecdotes from her Becoming book. “So the day I left the White House and I write about how painful it was to sit on that [inauguration] stage. A lot of our folks didn’t vote. It was almost like a slap in the face.”

“I understand the people who voted for Trump,” she continued. “The people who didn’t vote at all, the young people, the women, that’s when you think, man, people think this is a game. It wasn’t just in this election. Every midterm. Every time Barack didn’t get the Congress he needed, that was because our folks didn’t show up. After all that work, they just couldn’t be bothered to vote at all. That’s my trauma.”

[From The Daily Beast]

Don’t get me wrong, I’m completely mad at the people who didn’t vote or the people who threw away their votes on idiot third-party candidates like Yo Mama, Harambe and Jill Stein. I’m massively disappointed in ALL of those people, of course I am. But… I also completely blame Trump voters, and I don’t understand why Michelle is giving them such an easy pass, and why she’s refusing to draw the mirror up to THOSE voters. Those Trump voters went in there and decided to knowingly cast their vote to an agent of chaos, to a fascistic narcissist, to a sexual predator, to one of the biggest racists to ever run for president.

I find it weird – and kind of insulting? – that Michelle is focusing on the black people who didn’t vote in the last election. That sh-t doesn’t exist in a vacuum – voter suppression was massive in 2016, and it will be massive in 2020, and suppression efforts usually target the youths and the communities of color.

Barack Obama and Donald Trump arrive for the inauguration of President-elect Donald Trump

Photos courtesy of Avalon Red, Backgrid.

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60 Responses to “Michelle Obama on the Trump presidency: ‘A lot of our folks didn’t vote’”

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  1. Rapunzel says:

    Um… correct me if I’m wrong, but didn’t black women come out in droves for Hillary? I thought she got a massive amount of POC vote in general.

    • Astrid says:

      that’s what I thought

    • Darla says:

      I think exit polls showed there was a dropoff in the AA vote for Hillary, when compared to Obama. But, I also think it’s important to note that 2016 was the first election since they truly gutted the voting rights act. As a white woman I would not dare to note the dropoff in the AA vote without also noting that. We’ll see what happens that Michelle Obama did that. I think it’s going to be controversial. Personally, if she was going to ignite controversy, I’d rather she did it Hillary-style. As in; maga’s = deplorable.

    • Tanya says:

      Not in Michigan they didn’t, at least not in the numbers they did for Obama.

  2. ABritGuest says:

    Who’s to say ‘our folks’ means black people& not just Democrats generally?

    • Rapunzel says:

      Or US citizens in general…

    • SomeChick says:

      My take also. But there was also massive fraud and vote suppression. The electoral “college” failed to do its one job. The reason it exists is to theoretically know better and do the right thing. Hillary won the popular vote. I think the EC needs to go.

    • tempest prognosticator says:

      I read this and thought she meant Democrats. I like to consider myself as one of Michelle Obama’s folks. She is the best.

      • WTW says:

        I’m trying to give Michelle the benefit of the doubt here, but I don’t like this comment at all if she’s singling out black people. She supposedly made the “our folks” comment while speaking to black schoolchildren, so that’s a strong indicator that she did mean black people. Of course, black people wouldn’t vote in the record numbers they did for the first black president. That was a historic event. Political analysts have found that identity politics do result in slight bumps at the polls. But what also bothers me is that black people are a minority. How is it our fault that Trump ended up president when more than 95 percent of black women voted for Hillary and more than 80 percent of black men did. No racial group voted in higher numbers for Hillary, but Michelle apparently is mad at us because Trump is president and Republicans have control over Congress. Make it make sense. Trump is president and Congress is Republican-controlled because white people, the biggest share of the electorate by far, voted for Republicans in droves. Full stop. I’m tired of black people being blamed for things that are not our fault. Even with voter suppression, we vote in numbers larger than our share of the US population. We have a long tradition of exercising our civic duty. Rather than being applauded for that, we are pathologized, per usual.

    • Christina says:

      I think that she meant Democrats. Voter suppression is real, but it happened because the Republicans were relentless and cared about the demographics of society changing in a way that would increase support for progressive ideas and programs. Democrats of every stripe were complacent as it was happening and ignored those who sounded the alarms. Except for Black people Black people vote, at least the ones I know do. My family and Black friends always discuss how hard the right to vote was fought for. WTW is right: their aren’t enough Black people to carry every election, but it was denied to us so we show up.

      Republicans cheated because no one was watching. It’s hard work, but no one can do it but voters who show up to local elections and for the ones we hold for congress and the senate. That’s where the real power is. Democracy has to be nurtured, and Republican voters have a fixation on it that many Democratic voters simply don’t.

    • Truthiness says:

      I think Michelle is saying “the folks that voted for Barack” did not vote or they did not vote for Hilary. It’s not like her to polarize. “Our folks” meaning “our voters.”

  3. Also Ali says:

    If I’m understanding her correctly

    Trump voters = a lost cause
    Non-voters = people who can be persuaded to vote in 2020

    I don’t hate that. She’s not giving Trump voters a pass, she’s just not giving them her time.

    • The Other Sarah says:

      @also ali: Exactly.

    • Tia says:

      Agreed. She is never going to get a MAGA hat wearing Trump devotee to vote Biden. She may well be able to get people who didn’t vote last time out for him. I think she is very sensible not to start fights that she can’t win but which would throw up a lot of dust that would obscure her real message and focus on those areas where she can make a difference.

      Also, this means that if Trump starts attacking her he will clearly be the aggressor. His fanatics might not care but undecided voters might – the thing about ‘going high’ is that while it is the right thing to do, it also works really well to show up a deranged bully.

    • Christina says:

      I took it that way, too, Also Ali. Conservatives willing to follow a nut have a right to do that. We have to stand up for what we believe in like they do.

    • sassafras says:

      There are four types of people in the US right now:
      - the Trump voters
      - the moderates
      - the Democrats
      - the nonvoters

      Notice I did not say Republicans. They’re cleaved between Trumpists, moderates and the some of the ones who stayed home in 2016 because they “couldn’t bring themselves to vote for a Clinton.” If we can get the last three to show up like never before, then America will be saved. It’s all about turnout, the likes of which that has never been seen. Voter suppression can’t stop that (eg, see Houston on Super Tuesday with 6 hour waits.) We all need to plan to bring chairs, coolers, battery packs, whatever we need to vote in November. Plan like it’s a social distancing tail gate. Hell, bring a BBQ and cook burgers for the people in line (if you’re in a state without mail ballots.) Get determined, get fancy, get your friends registered and let’s do this.

    • Amber says:

      thank you Also Ali. This is exactly how I feel. People who are for Trump are with him all the way down, they will never stop supporting him. But there are people–moderate Republicans who are disgusted by Trump’s behavior (my dad, for instance), political agnostics, swing voters, etc–who can be persuaded. We all only have so much energy. I’m not going to devote any more time to the people who are bigoted racists. That’s a waste of everybody’s time and energy. I’m going to devote my energy to the people who are sensible and open to hearing actual facts about things.

  4. Rapunzel says:

    But also: Hillary won the popular vote, so a lot more people voted for her. If I’m not mistaken she won that popular vote by a pretty high margin.

    Why is nobody trying to end the damn asinine, antiquated. Electoral College?

    I’d love to hear Michelle and/or Barak speak out about that. It’s really the greatest voter suppression tactic, and it’s no coincidence that it really disenfranchises POC, who are often less likely to live key electoral college swing states. If the electoral college gave more voting power to CA or NY, the white folks would’ve long ago started a crusade against it. It’s only been preserved because it benefits white folks.

    • Allie says:

      The GOP profits from the Electoral College. There is no way they will let it change.

    • Christina says:

      @Rapunzel, that’s why white Democrats and not-Republicans have to get out and vote in the smaller races in states where Republicans have taken over. It’s all Democrats and other parties, not just people of color, who need to care.

      I personally think that getting rid of the electoral college could backfire, like Harry Reid removing the filibuster in the Senate that has allowed Mitch McConnell to place as many federal judges, some who have never practiced law, into the federal courts. It could always go the other way, and Democrats should use that populist power to unseat senators in red states. If more democrats voted in local elections in states where these battles are happening, they could put people in place who could fix the gerrymandering problem. Democrats are moving into red states because of cost of living issues, so maybe it will change.

      Not easy, but it won’t change unless people who hate what the Republicans have done care enough to do their part.

  5. Taylor says:

    That she can empathize with Trump voters, but not understand why people did/do not vote is telling. It’s a failure of our political system that voter turnout all around is so low, and she of all people should know that. But it is especially not the fault of black people that Trump was elected. What a gross and disingenuous thing to say.

  6. The Other Sarah says:

    I think she was sitting on a pile of subtext with the comment about understanding Trump voters. Meaning: she understands there are millions of racist, sexist, jingoistic, ethnocentric a-holes who would be drawn to Trump. She’s not giving them a pass – she’s recognizing that birds of a feather flock together.

    • Darla says:

      Yeah. Probably. But this ain’t a subtext nation.

    • Lucy2 says:

      Absolutely, it wasn’t a New York Times style “oh let’s talk to these Trump people and understand why they’re so angry”, but more of a “ I know they are a lost cause and they are racists“ comment.

      Her book was really good. I imagine that he has one on deck too, but wanted her to have that time, and I could also see him waiting until after the orange stain has been removed from the White House.

  7. minx says:

    I’ll stan Michelle forever. She’s a real First Lady.

  8. Erin says:

    The Democratic Party’s commitment to shooting itself in the foot is simply remarkable. They’ll keep losing elections as long as they keep blaming their biggest supporters and champions for not doing enough. And frankly Michelle blaming black men and women and excusing trump voters and supporters tells you all you need to know about her.

    • Maida says:

      I read her comment, as others here have, differently. She knows she isn’t going to persuade Trump voters, and doesn’t expect anything from them. It’s the people she DOES feel a connection to that she is talking to, and she cares about their participation in the political process.

    • minx says:

      What do you mean “tells you all you need to know about her?”

      • Reef says:

        If I may be so presumptuous as to answer for Erin, bc it tells us she, like her husband, is tone deaf af.
        Instead acknowledging the impact of reducing the number of polling places in traditionally Democratic districts and areas with large Black voters nationwide, they decide to finger wag at the base.

  9. Bren says:

    I remember a few days after the last presidential election someone asked Colin Kaepernick did he vote and responded no despite his platform to influence change. Many black people like him chose to sit out the last election and those are the people Michelle are speaking to, not those who are/were systematically suppressed from voting.

    • Darla says:

      That’s true, he was very anti-Hillary. You know who else? Eddie Glaude Jr. currently sitting his puffed up ass in Princeton, from where he also has a cushy MSNBC commentator job. I turn the station off every time they put that peacock on. So yea, if that’s who she’s directing this at, she’s right. That’s fair.

      • emilybyrd says:

        Peacock is exactly the right word to describe Eddie Glaude. Goodness, I just can’t stand the posing and fakery every time he speaks on MSNBC. Incidentally, I noticed that when he recently participated from home via video, like so many commentators are doing now, he had made a point of turning the covers of several books on his bookcase to face the camera so that it was clear to all of us that he’d been reading particularly deep, intellectual books. I was just like, “That is trademark Eddie.”

  10. SKE says:

    I think she’s referring to the famed Obama coalition- he was able to energize a mix of demographics into not only supporting him but actually showing up to vote. That definitely includes minority voters but my immediate thought when reading her comments was the youth vote, since they are notorious for not actually showing up on voting day.

    • Rapunzel says:

      Interesting take. So “our people” = people who support us, and what she is saying is we have to make everyone who supports us feel energized to vote.

    • pawneegoddess says:

      That’s how I understood her quote as well. The DB says she is talking about black voters but I took her second quote to be an extension to all the democrats, especially young people and women, who sat the last election out. I saw it as her talking about her own personal experience, what hurt most for her, not that she was laying blame for Trump at the feet of black voters.

  11. Ninks says:

    “I also completely blame Trump voters”, yes they truly are the worst but I don’t think that people who didn’t vote should be given a pass either. Yes, I understand that voter suppression, particularly of black people is a massive problem. But 60 million people didn’t vote. 60 million looked at the choices – an intelligent, experienced, highly capable woman or a stupid, egotistical, conman racist – and chose to sit it out. I think they have a lot of responsibility for this mess too. I hope they’ve learned a valuable lesson and turn out in droves this time to vote Blue, even though it is Biden.

  12. Tangie says:

    Thanks Kaiser! I’m so exhausted for being blamed for everything. The reality is the majority of white women voted for Trump even after p***ygate yet, she’s disappointed in us? Why must we always go high, be the better person, two wrongs don’t make a right, carry the torch? For what? What has it gotten us? Two wrongs don’t make a right but neither does a wrong and a right! Its’s not black people’s job to dismantle white supremacy. It’s white people’s job. If you want to be a ally then get on your job!

  13. Chelle says:

    The black vote was down in some of the larger cities. Yes, it’s everyone civic duty to vote. Period. However, with that said, Hilary & Company didn’t do a good job in selling herself or a vision to certain groups. Here, I don’t just mean black people. I voted for her but she wasn’t necessarily an aspirational candidate.

    Also, because of her longevity in the public eye and in the political landscape, Hilary has a lot of good things she accomplished and a lot of bad things or things where she simply f*cked up aka comments made in the 90s about black people [read men / probably meant drug dealers / crime lords] as being super predators. Regardless of who she meant, there are crime lords and gang syndicates across every race and ethnicity. My point like that is that those things aren’t easily forgotten or forgiven., e.g., basket of deplorables. Also, Hilary’s silent partner in crime was Bill Clinton. Sure, black folks liked him but he’s also remembered for traveling back to AK, when he was governor but running for President, to stand witness as a mentally disabled black men was being put to death in the electric chair—which Black people feel is a silent message to whites saying “see, I’ll keep these n-word in check for you; I’ll keep you safe from them.” Also; there was all the drug stuff, 3-strike laws and the disparity in sentences re: crack vs cocaine—which essentially meant black/brown folks predominantly in the former category and longer sentences versus white (middle and upper classes) in the latter categories and less stringent sentences, probation and/or remanded to drug rehab facilities. Black people were literally begging for help as their families and neighborhoods were being torn apart by this. Not only do people remember this but people in their 20s were and are learning more about because they were and have been reading the book, The New Jim Crow by Michelle Alexander.

    So, on it’s face, Michelle Obama is correct. Our people didn’t vote. However, neither did Hilary nor her surrogates speak to that time in a credible way or in a way that asked for understanding or forgiveness by our people.


  14. Div says:

    I disagree with Michelle if she’s talking about Black voters and not the Dems in general, but I give her a pass because most people vastly overreact to the few times she’s stuck her foot in her mouth and turn a molehill into a mountain. We all know why they are so d*mn hard on her.

    I gotta say as a Black woman, while I disagree, I sort of get it. Black folks fought and lost their lives to get the vote & to beat Jim Crow, and then to see people with huge platforms like Kap go “it doesn’t matter, they are the same” is…frustrating. We can see it mattered. Basically, I expect more from us because we’re the ones who are most impacted by people like Trump & we know a generation or two people were fighting like h*ll to just get a say. I don’t expect more from Trumpers or even that much from liberal white people, but we of all people know the consequences.

  15. Nina Simone says:

    I hope Michelle hasn’t become such an elite that it blinds her from the happenings on the ground. I’m shocked at her blame game and simplicities thinking. The situation is much more complicated

  16. Miumiiiu says:

    Yeah I get what she means.
    It would have been amazing if someone like her who is well respected could have endorsed someone early on. Was there no one better than Biden? Elizabeth Warren for example?
    No one important endorsed Biden until it was obvious he was the only one left.
    Im starting to appreciate AOC so much for being so honest and taking risks with her stances. And speaking out for Biden’s accuser. She’s one person who walks the walk every time it seems

    • minx says:

      Former Presidents and First Ladies aren’t going to endorse a candidate in the primaries. They generally wait until the nominee has been decided.

  17. MellyMel says:

    I get her point her and she’s not wrong at all. Also when she says “our folks”, I think she means democrats in general, especially those of us who supported Obama…not just black ppl.

  18. Frenda says:

    So I would hope that this time around, the people who didnt vote realize that they will get Trump again.! So they need to get over their apathy and vote for anyone BUT Trump.

  19. grabbyhands says:

    I’m of two minds on this –

    On the one hand, EVERYONE needs to vote – every single time. This presidency has exemplified how many people would love to muzzle the right to vote for many, many people. While this is still a right, we all need to use it.

    On the other hand, white people need to stop relying on black voters, especially black women voters, to ride in and save them from their own stupidity and laziness. If I was a POC, I’d be pissed at being considered important every four years and then marginalized the rest of the time too.

  20. Marcie says:

    Yeah, trump won because of a lot of factors, didn’t he lose the popular vote? Which means that the electoral college and jerry rigging and Russian bots and the director of the fbi all helped? She was too busy going high and apparently looking down on “our people” to point out the real problems with 2016. If she is talking about black people, we make up,like 13% of the population, how are we supposed to carry an election? I’m very disappointed in her comments, honestly.

  21. Teebee says:

    Hindsight is always 2020, no more starkly portrayed than the 2016 election.

    I am Canadian but was very invested in the 2016 contest, desperate to have Hillary win, expecting it, naively, because I thought it more impossible to have a POC win the presidency than a very qualified woman. So to me Hillary was a shoe-in.

    Cut to everyday since Trump won. Now I see that America is not, and may never be, willing to give a woman a shot. Entrenched sexism is easy to see, but so much harder to root out. Yet I feel until this mindset is given the attention it needs in American culture, attitude and perspective, it will never be overcome, just as racism and inequality forever seems to thrive on American soil.

    Trump wasn’t such a travesty the night he won, even though he revealed the person he was and the Trash fire he’d rule as rally after rally. Even I thought he was showboating for effect, and that once in office he’d be ineffectual but harmless. Just enjoying the celebrity of the Oval Office, big parties, grand but empty gestures, etc. The tax breaks and kiboshing of Wall Street regulations were all I thought he’d be known for.

    Almost everything else he’s let happen since: draconian immigration policies, gutting environmental protections, tariff battles, threatening abortion rights, pro-gun, the list goes on, is the direct result of the Republican Party knowing how to manipulate his weaknesses and his lack of understanding of the role he plays as its head. He’s no more true red Republican than he is a billionaire, but his lack of credibility and credentials have gotten lost in translation years ago. It’s also too late now to back down or out, and his ego is driving his desire for re-election more than his desire to work at this thankless (he’s the only POTUS that holds this aspect as sacrilegious) job for another 4 years.

    I know I highjacked this thread with this rant, but I feel it important to bring attention to the blindsided nature of Trump’s presidency. Much like our current situation, I don’t think anyone truly knew what was in store, or how bad things would get. However, there is no excuse now. And therefore no excuses allowed if Trump takes 2020. We all know what will happen if Trump wins again. And if anyone who wants him gone does not vote, than… I’ll leave it at that.

    • Maida says:

      I have to disagree with you, at least to a degree. When Trump was pushing the “birther” lie about Obama, it was clear to me (and a lot of other people) that he had no integrity and was willing to pander to Americans’ worst aspects. Of course, there’s still plenty of room to be horrified at how much damage he has done. But he was showing us who he was right from the jump.

      • Teebee says:

        I agree. His true colours have always shone. I just think people’s ability to look past them, or see them in a way that celebrated him was due to a kind of filter that has been blown away after 3.5 years. I do think people may not have voted because they didn’t think Trump or Hillary we’re going to be that different from each other, or thought both were as bad as the other. Apathy is a powerful force in politics, I have used it in my past to justify not overcoming laziness in order to vote.

        But not now. It shouldn’t take another election for non-voters, especially those that do not support Trump, to get off their asses and get to the polls in masses. Though I feel the Republicans do not support Trump they see his value in pushing their agenda and that is more dangerous than ever. We can’t expect a come-to-Jesus epiphany to snap the Republicans out of their stupor. He must be voted out, in numbers that not even a gerrymandered system can control!

    • Rapunzel says:

      Teebee- the dude ran on “build the wall” and called for an end to DACA. That fully prepared (especially undocumented) immigrants I know for the coming horror. Plus, my dad, a farmer of over 50 yrs, predicted the trade and tariff stuff just by listening to him. And anyone paying attention to Trump supporters at the time knew they loved his anti-enviromentalism, anti-choice, pro-gun rhetoric.

      You’re Canadian, so I get you not seeing it because you weren’t in the thick of things. But any US voter thinking on election night that Trump was showboating and would be “ineffectual but harmless” wasn’t paying enough attention. Or willfully obtuse.

      His evil was always clear. Many saw it. That’s why we cried on election night.

  22. Lowercaselila says:

    What has President Obama been doing? He is not obligated to write a book after his Presidency. He was advanced the money, but I think there is no exact timeline from what I read. He has been busy with getting his Presidential Center and The Obama Foundation in Chicago open . He has to raise a lot of money for it. The cost is estimated about 500 million to get it built and open. He has also been traveling around the world and attending and speaking at these international Global Alliance meetings. So I think he has been doing a lot of things besides playing golf.

    • bettyrose says:

      Remember those first pictures of him after he left office, looking so happy and peaceful? I’m sure internally he was tormented by the 2016 elections results, as a father if nothing else, but he’s still a young man having already achieved a proud historical legacy, and now has the chance to watch his children enter adulthood and follow their paths. I’m cool with it if he never writes a book about his white house years, but I hope his daughters do someday about their own experiences being part of that history. (TBH, I cried so hard reading Becoming, knowing how it was going to end, that I’m not sure I could emotionally handle Obama’s white house memoir right now, but I have read his earlier memoirs).

  23. Amy says:

    For the record people who have seen the entire documentary said that this information and article is taking stuff out of context.

  24. bettyrose says:

    Obama wrote two very compelling memoirs pre-presidency, though, and in some ways I think Michelle’s book captured what we really wanted to know. What’s the journey from the southside of Chicago to the white house like and what’s it like for that family to adjust to live in the White House (and yes I know Obama grew up in Hawaii, but he build his career and started his family on Chicago’s southside). (Not to mention the immense sacrifice of his family to support his political career.)

  25. L4frimaire says:

    I really like and admire the Obamas, but sometimes they say things that are peak respectability politics. I haven’t watched this, so can’t comment much, but hope there is more to it than this statement.

  26. L4frimaire says:

    I read a broader excerpt of that quote, and when she said “ our folks “, I don’t think she was referencing just black voters, but people who, while generally on the democratic side, don’t bother with midterms, or think the Dems don’t pass some purity test, so they stay home. Makes much more sense. She can’t do anything about Trump voters, but yes it is disappointing when people on your side don’t show up at the polls. Still my forever FLOTUS.

  27. Andrea says:

    “Every time Barack didn’t get the Congress he needed, that was because our folks didn’t show up. After all that work, they just couldn’t be bothered to vote at all’

    Obama had control of the Congress ‘he needed” in the first two years of his presidency. Plus voter turnout was higher in 2016 than it was in 2012. I put the drop off in 2012 down to the how disappointed people were with his first term and rightly so.

  28. Jayna says:

    I always read that as Democrats and understood what she meant in that context.

  29. Maggie says:

    Michelle Obama goes out of her way to be friendly with that murderer and war criminal George W Bush, so she can’t be that good. Sure you might say she has to civil but the way she engages with Bush goes beyond that.