Windsor courtiers: ‘We need to design a system to protect the monarchy full-stop’


For all of the self-styled Protocol Police and fussy, bitchy, viper-like courtiers, it’s remarkable how many people believe that this kind of overzealous gatekeeping is good for the British monarchy. The way the Duke and Duchess of Sussex were treated within the institution and by the British press was horrible, not just in real time, but horrible for the monarchy in general. It revealed that the Queen, Prince William and the press entirely were short-sighted, petty, racist and parochial. After they had successfully bullied the Sussexes out of the UK, they’re all now apparently hysterical over the fact that Harry isn’t coming back (and Harry alone). It’s interesting then that those courtiers are only now really considering the long-term ramifications of what they’ve done:

The future of the British monarchy depends on Prince Willam and Prince Harry mending their rift — as a palace courtier stressed, “we cannot have them at war,” a new book reveals. Palace staffers were so worried about the feud between the two brothers following Harry’s marriage to Meghan Markle that it was the hot topic of discussion at a summit in the spring of 2019.

According to the newly released read, “Finding Freedom: Harry, Meghan and the Making of a Modern Royal Family,” Harry distanced himself from William to protect his wife. Their relationship is still frosty as William remains upset by the fallout over Megxit. “It’s not anger, it’s hurt,” a source said.

“We need to design a system to protect the monarchy full stop,” said one source at a palace retreat before Harry and Meghan moved from Kensington Palace to Windsor.

“The future of this monarchy relies solely on the four people currently in Kensington Palace. The public popularity only lies with them,” said the insider, issuing a battle cry. “When [Prince Charles] becomes king, the only way it lasts is if the four of them are not at war.”

As Harry and Meghan now spend their days working on their new charitable venture, Archewell, at home in California with their 1-year-old son Archie, a friend of Harry’s admitted it will take time to heal the family wounds.

The pair were set up by friends Misha Noonoo, a designer, and Markus Anderson, the book confirms for the first time. But when the former “Suits” actress came into the prince’s life, one senior royal referred to the American as “Harry’s showgirl,” while another told an aide that, “she comes with a lot of baggage.” One high ranking courtier was overheard telling a colleague, “There’s just something about her I don’t trust.”

[From Page Six]

“We need to design a system to protect the monarchy full stop,” says the palace source whose job it was to protect the monarchy. “Why didn’t someone stop this disaster,” cries a stuffy old dude whose job it was to stop royal disasters. I’m not even saying the courtiers are entirely to blame nor am I saying that William is even solely to blame. There is a profound dysfunction within the House of Windsor and it involves the family AND the people around them. I’ve been saying this for two years now: the entire Sussex drama was the point where everything changed for the monarchy. Ten years from now, we’ll look back on that moment and the choices which were made and we’ll be able to say that this is where and when everything fell apart, I really believe that.

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239 Responses to “Windsor courtiers: ‘We need to design a system to protect the monarchy full-stop’”

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  1. Aurora says:

    They’re realizing they can’t muster the type of global interest in their projects the way the Sussexes can.

    The Cambridges are a charisma void. They should get used to being completely overshadowed every time the Sussexes sneeze.

    • Lindsay says:

      They Willnot and Cannot 😁

    • janey says:

      What I came here to say. No one is interested in them, most people I know (myself included) don’t want to pay for the idiots anymore. they don’t do ANYTHING of worth. they are about as interesting as watching beige paint dry. If they did anything worthwhile then perhaps I would have a different attitude, but Kate wearing a mask made front page news over here!!!

      I really hope things change significantly with Charles but these two cannot carry the RF by themselves, they are too dull.

      • bamaborn says:

        Which is why I’m of the belief Willnot may have to find someone other than Cannot. Lol!

      • missskitttin says:

        They are boring and not great looking, not very altruistic or good, not friendly, or great style. Not great royals.

    • Ronaldinhio says:

      100% this
      It was fuelled by William’s jealousy I believe, all of it
      A tantrum over why his brother, who would never be king, would always be the star of the show. Why was Harry more likeable when he was so much more important?
      William set the wheels in motion and now he must live with the consequences
      They could have been viewed as a fabulous four but now they truly are separated with people allowed to show who they like best, who they really prefer.
      It is hard to have your fears confirmed, on a stage whilst the world watches and now openly compares

      • Angie says:

        William forgot he lost his hair.

        He peaked at like 17yo. Sorry guy. It’s donezo. That adoration girls had of you is gone. Only women in their mid 30s and older remember it, maybe that’s why he hangs with the mommies after dropping off the kids.

      • notasugarhere says:

        There a lot of jealousy at work here

        William jealous of Harry’s charity success, charisma, popularity, happy marriage, ability to walk away

        Kate jealous of Meghan’s abilities, Meghan getting in the way of Kate’s weird behavior towards Harry, Meghan’s popularity

        Carole jealous of Doria’s popularity

      • Where'sMyTiara says:

        Multigenerational jealousy at play here, and courtiers using all of it to further their own internal alliances/careers. The jealousy is a Windsor trait that goes all the way back – even before Victoria, to the Hanoverians. The sons of George III, that’s some eyebrow raising reading.

        Petty Betty: doesn’t like anyone outshining her. Courtiers quietly went after her sister.

        Charles of House Petty: doesn’t like anyone outshining him. Courtiers not so quietly went after his wife, and then his sons. See: Mark Bolland.

        William of House Petty: doesn’t like anyone outshining him. Deliberately picked a dullard limpet for a wife, deliberately sent his courtiers out like a pack of hounds to harass his brother Harry before and after his marriage to Meghan.

        Meghan was the diamond that outshone them all, so now we have BP, CH, and KP courtiers all with knives out perpetually.

        Their jealousy will be their undoing, and Harry will never come back to that.
        It’s called Low Contact/No Contact in abuse survivor circles for a reason.
        I honestly think that Harry will decide to go mostly no-contact once the financial ties are cut… he might stay Low Contact until Petty Betty’s funeral. Maybe. I suspect he will go alone to that. But what is left to stay for after that? He’s been stabbed in the back by father and brother.

      • edenburning says:

        I’m in my mid 30s and I used to think Will was super cute when I was a girl. But I am firmly Team Harry these days.

      • Elizabeth says:

        I never thought William was good-looking. The horse teeth have always bothered me.

      • missskitttin says:

        Will cant forgive Harry for not being bald.

      • Eleonora says:

        There is a very clear system for that: don’t spoil and fawn over them when they grow up.
        Will prevent a lot of problems when they grow older.

    • BabsORIG says:

      Or maybe someone needs to quit obsessing over being overshadowed

      • ArtHistorian says:

        Yeah, the Windsor ego needs to be checked – and they need to understand that popular interest doesn’t always follow rank, and they can’t really do anything about that but rather use whatever assets the BRF has in the best ways that suit their various skills and appeal. Will and Kate appeal to the traditionalists but they don’t bring in any new “clients” (speaking in business terms). That’s what Harry and Meghan did, but an overweening ego (William and, I think, Charles) drove them away and sabotaged themselves.

    • Angie says:

      This is true. It’s like Camilla DoC being “hurt” Meghan overshadowed her speech on domestic violence. I only accepted Camilla once Charles walked Megs down the aisle. It was sweet and honorable. He’d finally won me over after years of watching Di be abused and I was a kid but remember that.

      • Tessa says:

        I appreciate that Charles did this. But he also benefited from it to be honest. Charles disappointed me by not continuing to help Harry and Meghan and be more supportive. He could have sat William down and told him to be polite to his new sister in law and told Kate to deny the nasty rumors about her. One statement from Kate would have helped greatly. What really bothered me was his not issuing a statement protesting against His own little grandson trashed and likened to a chimp. He and Camilla should have had joint appearances with Harry and Meghan. IT seemed that it was only that one time at that garden party soon after the wedding. Charles has not won me over but it is not too late…

      • missskitttin says:

        How the Brits accept Camilla, for many years Charles’s lover who destroyed Di’s marriage, and hate Meghan for no reason. So strange.

    • bamaborn says:

      Yep!! It’s like trying to put lipstick on a pig. It’s still a pig!

    • one of the Marys says:

      @aurura But do they want global interest? It seems to me they only wanted it once the Sussexes had it. Or they didn’t want it and didn’t want the Sussexes to have it either. They seem to be mostly focused on their reception within Britain. Hard to explain what I mean

      • Becks1 says:

        I definitely think the Cambridges want global interest, and I think they thought they had it and were global superstars….until Meghan came and they realized what it meant to actually be a global superstar (remember the balcony moment in Fiji….I think that went a long way towards triggering the Cambridges.)

      • notasugarhere says:

        I agree, Becks1. They want global interest. William flying off to Davos to talk about environmental activism. William flying off to NYC and Kenya to promote Jecca Craig’s charity interests. The silly BAFTA events during a Hollywood trip, because Kate wanted to mingle with ‘stars’. William complaining famous people didn’t want to do his charity work for him. Their constant leaks to People.

      • Nic919 says:

        Literally days after the Fiji balcony is when the stories started coming out from Wootton and valentine low about the tiara situation and cry gate. KP was jealous.

      • L4frimaire says:

        I’m curious about that too. We’re they really that popular and pushing for a global presence? I hadn’t paid any attention to the Royal family in forever until Meghan came along, and really only after the marriage. I only really started paying attention when started to see these rumblings on Twitter about the nasty press attacks after their first tour. Maybe since she and Harry brought so much more international attention to the royals, they want to hold onto it, which is why they’ll keep churning Harry and Meghan, no matter how “ irrelevant “ they say they are. Who knows what will happen once the Queen passes on, and Charles assumes the crown ( he really will be a placeholder until William ascends, then it will shift to the Cambridges and their kids).

    • Maxine Loeber says:

      I like that…”overshadowed everytime the Sussex’s sneeze”. Baldy and straight jacket cant win for losing. Every PR stunts since the Sussex’s departure has had epic failures. Their last outing at the old folks home was a total embarrassment. LOL.

  2. Priscila Bezerra-Fischer says:

    The level of incompetence…how anyone thought it would be such a good idea? One unflattering tidbit leaking by a unhappy employee is one thing; what we saw was a full on smearing campaign that, at best, was allowed to continue since nobody cared for the spare and his ” showgirl” or, at worst, was actually done under Willie´s orders to, for whatever petty reason( either to put Harry in his place, run away Meghan or to please Willi´s ego- probably all above) his rose bushed brain convinced his minions was the only way going forward.

    But it is really not that difficult, is it? Harry and Meghan were representing the institution they are so keen at saving at any costs. Protecting this institution means protecting its members. That they failed to do this because of their own biases is what is biting them in the butt, not this rift between brothers.

    They failed the institution already by being stupid, petty and short sighted. There is no way they can go on like this forever. Stories about the tiara and Meghan making Cate cry can not be repeated ad nauseum. They cannot hope their stupid blind items about Meghan being the devil and all the silly twists and turns they do to fit Sussexit in each and every narrative will excuse them or make people forget about Andrew, about William not really working, about a very old Queen so set on her own habits that takes four month vacations and have a personal parade tp celebrate her fake birthday even during a pandemic that is nowhere nearing its end…

    At some point, only the true rabid haters will be able to ignore rational thinking as to eat these stories, and they are not the audience they need to convince the Monarchy is necessary.

    So, yeah, you made your bed, now it is time to lay on it, courtiers- and yes, Willie

    • ArtHistorian says:

      The problem is that the Windsors have become incapable of containing their personal drama to the private sphere – and that their staff gleefully leaked to the tabloids (they did that way before Meghan entered the institution – in fact, it seemed to be the SOP during the War of the Waleses, which was perhaps where the cracks in the foundation started to appear).

      Then there’s Andrew who is a product of extreme privilege, parental coddling and the inborn stupidity of the Windsors. His criminality is a product of his class privilege and the messy interpersonal dynamics of the family.

      The first problem could have been prevented if the staff was actually competent and could get tell their royal bosses that it is a bad idea to fight a personal war in the media. It would also demand that the staff itself wasn’t eager to settle personal scores with Meghan in particular.

      The second problem is harder to solve – because we are talking about serious crimes and a man who is completely incapable of understanding that he did wrong.

      I still think that the British monarchy can survive the War of the Windsor brothers (if they leave Harry and his family alone – and accept that he’s gone) but I’m not so sure it can survive Andrew because they have no control over the situation anymore and his interview did immense damage. No one who has seen this interview doubts that Andrew is guilty as sin – because he’s such a terrible liar. Nothing has been proven conclusively with hard evidence but he effectively incriminated himself with his spectacularly inept lies.

      • Priscila Bezerra-Fischer says:

        Even before this all went down, I remember watching an interview with Sharon osbourne ( i know) and she was like ” I love the Queen, but I dislike both Charles and William” and through the years, I see many brit celebrities echoing the same mantra ” The Queens is untouchable, but the new generation…yickes”. So I think, in a sense, while the shared trauma of the WWI and the Queen devotion to her role has gained the Windsors many cookie points, William is not very popular.

        Indifference is quite a good thing for the Windsors. Charles, after going from golden boy to villain, is quite happy by people being respectful, but indifferent towards him.

        This atitude might gain them another decade of going on undisturbed, because it is something that has been said so many times, that it would be a nightmare to disantagle Britain from the Windsors, that people prefer to pay them up-

        But William? Two more decades and the world will change so much…

        About Andrew: I think he will be paid off . RF will continue downplaying and hiding him, hoping this goes away. Even if Ghislaine roasts him, The Queen will not be persueded to send him to exile. At this point, she will be so old people will not dare to contradict her…

      • BayTampaBay says:

        The courtiers wanted Meghan gone at ANY cost. The problems between the British Tabloid Press and Meghan started with the courtiers.

        The courtiers do not know how to handle the Andrew situation so they are just allowing it to play out: no offense or defense.

      • Tessa says:

        I don’t blame the courtiers. The dysfunctional family itself is to blame and they direct the courtiers.

      • A says:

        @ArtHistorian, in some fairness to the Windsors, the inability to contain their personal drama is not just on them. It’s also a result of the evolving state of the media, particularly the tabloid media, in the UK, as well as the way celeb culture as we think of it exists right now. The lines between the private and public spheres are quite blurred. The distinction is solely based on what the press has decided will sell the most papers, and generate the most revenue for them.

        Diana also changed the rules for how the palace deals with the media. She had an incredibly keen, intelligent insight for how the tabloids work in this regard, and she exploited it for her own benefit. The royals called her self absorbed for being obsessed with her media coverage, but it wasn’t that she was obsessed with herself. She was a student trying to learn how to craft an image and win popular support, while the rest of the royals scoffed at this, because they felt they were owed that support and deference by virtue of their birth. This lack of understanding got them real bad in the 90s.

    • bamaborn says:


      • Jay says:

        It’s not conclusive, but I remember an interview compilation (Vanity Fair, maybe?) With British celebs naming their favourite royal. Most said the Queen, or a historical monarch, and the rest said Harry. Nobody said Charles or William.

      • L4frimaire says:

        They really are messy. I was reading some old Vanity Fair articles on Diana and Fergie ( they used better writers then it seemed, but who knows), and it was messy then. No one in the palace liked or supported the wives, Fergie had a brief moment, then it went back to attacking the women again. They really can’t get over the Diana years and how overshadowed they felt by her. It really was played out in the strong reaction they had to Meghan’s charisma and star power, and her being American and biracial just made it worse. I know people sometimes dismiss her as a small actress, but she herself has a big presence and her marriage amplified it, with Harry’s charisma being enhanced as well. Not sure if it will be easy to mute that now, but with them less public and more focused on work, it will change and evolve into something less intense than their time as working royals.

    • Nic919 says:

      When you protect the criminal rapist but not the biracial duchess then you have failed. The effort used to protect Andrew’s crimes as compared to how exposed pregnant Meghan was left to be attacked by the media is disturbing.

  3. ABritGuest says:

    Spring 2019 was when that Shipman article came out that claimed courtiers were working with government for a suitable role for Harry that would place distance from William. I really want more details of these plans and how far things went.

    The details of the feud from the press don’t really make sense. We hear of this warning from William but then the rota reporters said William was the one who distanced himself from Harry and was the one who pushed for the office& charity split. So why would William be the one hurt unless it’s that he didn’t like Harry not taking his advice?

    Then Bradby says things said or done around the wedding caused hurt and that Harry was the one to place distance. He also claimed that William tried reaching out but was too late. Very strange.

    Either way the courtiers themselves were leaking to the press and helping to cause this drama. Maybe if they had focused on their jobs rather than being busybodies things might not have escalated especially if they are now claiming that Harry was so important.

    • Ginger says:

      I would definitely believe Tom Bradby over the
      royal rota. They want You to believe that William dropped Harry because they want to sell that Harry is so “lost” when it’s the other way around.

    • BayTampaBay says:

      I think Harry pushed for the split from KP and then accepted a move to BP as that was his only choice. The Sussexes did not want Karen & Kevin and their courtiers in their business both professional and personal.

      • notasugarhere says:

        Harry always should have been under BP, not under Clarence House or KP. Once he started doing royal duties of any kind, it should have been funded out of the Sovereign Grant not the Duchy. The system was already setting him up as third wheel as long as he was under The Duchy.

    • Nic919 says:

      If William was behind Angela Kelly screwing around with the tiara then of course Harry would be mad. No one interfered like this with Kate. But that probably wasn’t insurmountable. Something else happened to make things much worse. Enough for Harry to realize he had to separate himself from KP to protect his family.

  4. Cerys says:

    Self-preservation is the only thing that interests the Windsors.

    • Mtec says:

      And the Courtiers. They sound like conceited gossiping a-holes.

      • Prayer Warrior says:

        I want all their names. Also, are the ‘men in gray suits’ the same as ‘the Courtiers’?
        I want a list of ALL the people on payroll.
        All the people on/in ‘grace and favour’ homes/positions..
        I want names, positions and places….
        They’ve blown their ‘mystic’ by publicly being jerks (March Commonwealth Services)
        No mystic, no ‘royal’ behaviour as an example to the rest of us, so no go
        Also, I want Andrew outed

      • BayTampaBay says:

        ” Also, are the ‘men in gray suits’ the same as ‘the Courtiers’?”

        Yes, one and the same.

  5. SomeChick says:

    Harry would be crazy to even consider going back. If they want to mend the rift, it would have to be William and the rest of them APOLOGIZING. (Which, I doubt any of them can even imagine.)

    • BayTampaBay says:

      Karen & Kevin Harry and Harry only back.

      Charles is at a complete loss as to what to do and how to proceed.

      The courtiers want neither of the Sussexes back per a book I read this weekend.

      Karen, Kevin and the courtiers see all of this as Harry’s fault. Karen, Kevin and the courtiers will never apologize.

      75% of the public really does not care.

      • notasugarhere says:

        ‘Charles is at a complete loss as to what to do and how to proceed.’

        This. He had no idea how to function with Diana; they were too much alike in all the wrong ways. William is just like Diana and just like the worst of Charles. We dislike in others what we most dislike in ourselves. William and Charles see the worst of themselves in each other and use it to their advantage. Selfish, jealous, controlling, unable to put reason above temperamental emotions. At least Charles has a work ethic. Both doses of Charles and Diana’s work ethics were inherited by Harry.

        Charles tried to move all the royals under one banner years ago. William freaked out after a year, loyal Harry went with him, which is why there was the odd KP Household to begin with.

        This all reads as William controlling and manipulating his clueless granny, with Charles unable to get many words in edgewise. William threatens to leave, as he’s done for twenty years, granny gets freaked out and kowtows. She’s busy spending her time protecting her criminal son, William is Charles’s problem.

        There was some logic in there, letting Harry and Meghan get away from William’s control. The Queen and Charles did try to get that setup working, to enable Harry and Meghan to stay. When that didn’t work, they were willing to consider the half-in, half-out idea which angered William.

        We get William leaking their secret location in Canada, leaking their plan to leave to Wootton. William freaking out about the idea they’d move to L.A. and be popular, so leaking his own ‘exile them to Africa’ plan. Charles planned to have Harry and Meghan working during his reign. Them leaving completely was never what he’d want.

      • BayTampaBay says:

        “William threatens to leave, as he’s done for twenty years,”

        I never knew William had ever threaten to leave.

        OEII and Charles want the Sussexes to succeed financially as it sets a blue-print to become a “protocol” for Lady Louise Windsor, James, Viscount Severn, Princess Charlotte and Prince Louis.

      • Tessa says:

        William is petty now. He also is removed from real life though he thinks he is down to earth. He did not follow or carry out the positive messages of his parents: a sense of duty, dedication to charities, being empathetic, being very apt and skillful and communicating with the public, a sense of being interested in what people have to say, and tolerance. Diana had more heart than William does and yes, Charles does too. William is spoiled and sulky about Harry not listening to him. He appears not to want to accept Meghan. Kate is just as bad. Harry speaks and acts from his heart and he is more tolerant than his brother, and he is no wimp, there are things he just can’t tolerate, and the meanness towards his wife and child and himself is unacceptable to him. I believe he and Meghan really tried. The royals are imploding and it is all on them not Harry and Meghan.

      • Tessa says:

        DIana had a heart unlike William and empathy. IMO. If he ever was like Diana that’s all over now. I think he may have had these bad traits now manifesting themselves lurking the whole time, and later, his father had to cover up for him and apologize for him. He would be act patronizing about Harry even in public. William lacks intelligence and interest in work that his father has. Bad news all around. He also seems very aggressive in wanting more power. I notice now the Cambridge stans want him to be the next King, and in greater numbers now.

      • Nic919 says:

        William is the asshole who joked about COVID when thousands had already died in Europe. He is no different from dump in so many ways, just a different accent and less publicly vulgar. As we get further from the generation that remembers him as Diana’s son, he will have a harder coasting on the goodwill of his mother’s legacy. It’s already starting to fade as gen Z was not born when Diana died.

      • February-Pisces says:

        @BTB I’m sure William threatens to leave the RF everyday and he’s still there cos he’s too much of a p*ssy to actually walk. I’m sure he’s always threatens to leave kate too, and again he’s still married. He probably says it all the time as a way to emotionally blackmail people to get his own way. It must kill him that harry actually had the balls to do what he never can.

      • Dl says:

        @Notasugarhere and others. Petty Betty remembers clearly what it was like living through an abdication. The lasting impression that historical event had on such a young impressionable mind. Could she be in real terror of that lazy PWT quitting? Just a thought. No way trying to defend the old bat.

      • notasugarhere says:

        I think she is afraid of it, which is exactly why William has played that ‘I’ll leave, I’ll destroy the monarchy’ card for most of his life.

  6. Sarah says:

    All I got out of that was that these courtiers hold summits to discuss “pressing” issues? Ice shelves are collapsing, half the world is going to be underwater at the rate we’re going, and they want to fritter away precious resources on holding summits to preserve an outdated institution? GMAFB.

    • Scorpion says:

      If only, I could like this comment. These people are delusional. We are also facing another recession in the UK, diminishing standard of life but we are supposed to find another 8 figure sum to fund these imbeciles who can’t even keep their stories straight???

    • tcbc says:

      I don’t know, this is their job. (Even if they’re bad at it.) My company is holding meetings on how to react to or handle the pandemic as well. Of course worse things are happening, but our immediate concern is protecting as many of our co-workers jobs as possible, and that means trying to keep the company afloat.

      • Travelin says:

        I think the wording is the problem. A “summit” implies an important global issue that many experts need to weigh in on for the good of mankind. A “meeting” on the other hand is much more appropriate. It is their job to protect the institution.

        The phrasing just shows how inflated their ego is.

    • BayTampaBay says:

      “courtiers hold summits to discuss “pressing” issues? ”

      The courtiers have a real problem on their hands. Prior to Sussexit, there were two groups: people who really did not give a “fat-rat’s-clacker” about the monarchy and were a fairly non-vocal silent majority and The Monarchist who are a very vocal minority via buying newspapers, online tabloid media, social media…etc who now want the Sussexes burnt at the stake.

      There is now a third group , the people who feel the Sussexes have been badly treated and that this reflects on British (English) society in general.

      It is impossible for the courtiers to make all three groups of citizens happy.

      The Windsors have to be appealing (for Monarchist) and non-offense (for the do not give a “fat-rat’s-clacker” people). This is difficult if not impossible in the long term

      As to the third group, making them happy is now impossible without destroying the House of Windsor.

    • MA says:

      I don’t get why Brits are okay with finding this clown show

  7. Jay says:

    At this point, I’m sorry to say it, but I think the next time we’ll see the brothers together is at a funeral. It seems like nobody in this family really expected Harry to leave.

    I suspect that since none of them (courtiers included) could imagine breaking away from the power structure and privileges that sustain them, they assumed the same was true for Harry.

    What would it take to repair this relationship? Speaking as a champion long-term grudge holder, I would need to see an admission of the hurt caused, and I just haven’t heard anything like that from William, ever.

    • Priscila Bezerra-Fischer says:

      Remember when Harry was pranked by a caller passing as a Greta Thurmberg, the courtiers kept saying Harry would be committing a lot a mistakes without their aid and support? Not only they could not conceive anybody willingly walking away from the Firm, but they also thought themselves very highly, as if nobody could hope to substitute them or live without them.

      I have no doubt Betty depends on them for her every move, that Charles has developed a very string working relationship with his team and that William would be unable to survive if left by his own devices…but Harry? Come on, these courtiers are dummies, really. It is not like he had not been frank about his discontentment for a long time…

      • Izzy says:

        Harry also has the benefit of a savvy, educated woman by his side who has lived her life as an independent woman before she met him. He’s getting better guidance from her than he could ever get from those inbred morons in gray suits.

      • morrigan01 says:

        Charles supposedly has someone put toothpaste on his toothbrush every morning. No, I don’t think either him nor William have the actual ability to function outside of their Royal Bubble.

        There is video footage of Harry actually chiding his father for having someone else clean his polo boots, as Harry sits and cleans his own boots himself. So even as a teen, Harry really tried to do for himself and be independent. I think his time in the army really gave him that, and showed him what, at least at a base level, what living outside of a Royal Bubble was really like.

        Then he met and married Meghan, a woman who did NOT grow up in a privileged bubbled and worked for everything she ever had. Meghan knows how to live and work in the real world because she did so her whole life. She was independently wealthy before she ever met him. So with her by his side, leaving that world and making it work was always a true possibility, which is why it was able to happen and which is why (for many reasons) they’ll never come back.

        The trip of Charles, William and the courtiers were them not understanding this about Meghan. They never look at who she really was, or tried to get to know who she really was, instead focusing on their own shallow, prejudice feelings and opinions. (“There’s just something about her I don’t trust.” Gee, how many times have black people heard THAT one from white people about them.) Harry had the balls to walk because he had a partner who had the smarts to know how life outside the royal bubble worked because it’s the world she grew up in. She was Harry’s escape out of that, something that, at heart, he’s always wanted. They didn’t see that about her for him because of their own prejudices and ignorance.

      • notasugarhere says:

        He has someone iron his shoelaces, that’s an old thing from the military. The toothpaste on the toothbrush was a limited thing nearly three decades ago, when he broke his collarbone playing polo.

    • Chica1971 says:

      Yep, it will be a funeral and help us all if he does the 24hr turnaround.

      • Edna says:

        And if Meghan doesn’t accompany him….you can hear/read the faux outrage about how dare she.

      • notasugarhere says:

        I could see her accompany Harry to funerals for the 24hr turnaround, but they’d leave any children in the US.

      • BayTampaBay says:

        Harry WILL NOT come without Meghan.

      • morrigan01 says:

        I DO think Meghan will go to support him if he goes back for a funeral.

        However, Archie and any siblings he may have? Hell no. They are never setting foot in the UK, not until they are tweens at least. And then only if they *want* to go. I don’t see their parents ever forcing them to go to the UK about around the Royal Family for any reason.

    • tcbc says:

      I think even if the relationship were to be somehow repaired, Harry does not go back to England. This mess has shown how willing his brother is to wield his power, even for petty grievances, even against his closest family. Once the Queen dies, Charles will be in control. But eventually William will accede to the throne. And then what? Better for Harry to be out now, at the height of his popularity, while he’s still young and connected enough to build something of his own. It would be so much tougher 10-20 years from now, when his nieces and nephews are in the spotlight and he’s firmly middle-aged.

      • Tessa says:

        I don’t think he will lose popularity.

      • BayTampaBay says:

        The relationship will never be healed as William and, more importantly, ALL the courtiers blame it all on Meghan 100%.

      • A says:

        I think Harry and Meghan have, either purposefully or unwittingly, set the course for the monarchy to follow in the future. They’re doing a new thing where they’re trying to forge their own way, and earn their own keep. This is definitely going to be held up as an example for why the rest of the monarchy can’t do the same at some point too, even if the reality isn’t feasible for the rest of the monarchy because of constitutional issues and all that. But it’s definitely going to serve as the blueprint for what some of the future looks like for the spares in the royal family.

  8. Maya Memsaab says:

    Uhhhh…. The bigger issue here is that the whole system DOES protect the Monarchy, regardless of everything they do themselves to undermine it and CRIMINAL actions going unpunished and unaccounted for. SEE: Andrew being protected by the entire machinery of the monarchy.

    • Sarah says:

      This was my reaction to the headline, the system is designed to do nothing but protect them. Even with such delusional incompetents behind the wheel. Can you imagine any of them surviving in the real world?

    • Elle says:


      i think what they’re really asking for is a system to save them from THEMSELVES

  9. Snuffles says:

    I’m deriving immense pleasure imagining the apoplectic seizures the royal courtiers are having with every move Harry and Meghan make. They would have vetoed about 90% of their activities outright and dragged their feet on the rest. I think the courtiers shocked at all the genuine interest that Harry and Meghan are getting. The more they talk shit, the bigger the Sussex’s cache grows. And now #SussexSquad are becoming a force themselves and getting press too for all of their fundraising efforts!

    So if they think they can get them back pulling the same shit they always did, they’re delusional. It’s going to take more than just Harry and William making up. I think Harry still cares for his family but only wants to interact with them as a brother/son/grandson/cousin/in-law and not as a business asset that needs to be “handled.”

    Harry and Meghan are clearly relishing the opportunity to tackle subjects that they would NEVER be able to do if they were still in The Firm. They’ve got that taste of freedom and I think there is no turning back.

    The best they can hope for is Harry and Meghan occasionally showing up to the occasional family event or ceremony after the pandemic.

    • Becks1 says:

      This line – “The more they talk shit, the bigger the Sussex’s cache grows.”

      YES. The more the courtiers, the RRs, and the anti-Meghan brigade on twitter attack and rant and rave – the stupider they look, to be honest, and the better H&M look, and the more people “get” why they walked away.

    • ArtHistorian says:

      The British monarchy shouldn’t be dependent on the 6th in line of succession. If it does depend on him, then they are already in trouble.

      • Sofia says:

        This. The future of the monarchy is on the heirs to deal with. So that includes William, Charles and later, George.

      • Tessa says:

        I would like to see a place for the spares. George if he does not have children will be succeeded by his sister and her heirs. I don’t like to see George being treated as more special than his siblings. Diana paid attention to both her sons and did not treat William as more special.

      • Liz version 700 says:

        Absolutely! If Harry was the make or break for this family they have way bigger problems than the Sussexes leaving. One is named Andrew and he rapes minors with sock puppets. So ummmm yeah stay far away Sussexes

      • notasugarhere says:

        Harry is the spare and has been mistreated by these people his entire life because of it. If they are moving to an heir-only model, no reason for the spare to be dragged into this. Any younger children should be raised without the use of titles, raised to earn their own living. If something happens to the heir, then and only then would the spare be trained as a replacement.

    • DeeDee says:

      @snuffles – 100%. The BRF Titanic is veering off course with in-fighting, mental cruelty, & criminal activity by Andrew. No amount of smiles, ribbon cutting, ball tosses, box carrying, plant potting, etc. can have them recover from this. This is everlasting damage. Maybe the changing of the guard with King Charles could provide a relieve but in the face if this economic turmoil / pandemic, no button coat, hairband, or fashion repeat is needed or wanted. Hard work of which they are woefully incapable is necessary. They’re completely 100% white privileged tone deaf. The public is done.

  10. Becks1 says:

    I do agree with Kaiser that Sussexit was a turning point for the British monarchy – and I don’t think we realize the extent of it at this point. I think as more and more of the inside dirt comes out (and I think it will, especially after the Queen passes), we’ll learn the full extent of the impact.

    I’ve been saying this for a while now, but I think one of the “issues” with H&M leaving was that it pulled back the curtain on the monarchy. I mean, think about it – they literally wanted to take LESS taxpayer money and still work on behalf of the crown, and they were told no. And all other nonsense aside about committees and how complicated it would be – the reason is that they didn’t want too many “common” british citizens asking, “why aren’t all the royals doing that?” (I know some of other royals are more part-time, but they’re not as high profile as the Sussexes.)

    and as we see their stars continue to rise and their status as global icons just being cemented every week – it proves that you don’t have to be a HRH or “working royal” to do charity work on a global scale. And I do think as time goes on more people are going to see things like Trooping and be like, “so whats the point of this again?”

    That was the danger of Sussexit, that’s why its such a crisis for the monarchy itself, not just for the family.

    • ArtHistorian says:

      It was never the point of the monarchy to do charity work. The monarch has a constitutional role because Britain is a constitutional monarchy. The direct heirs needs to be trained for the job – but the BRF really doesn’t need any extra members for anything other than PR for themselves.

      • BayTampaBay says:

        You are so correct.

      • Lowrider says:

        This is what I have been saying, the monarchy doesn’t need Harry or Anne, Edward and the rest. They should retire the hanger on’s and focus on the heirs.

      • Liz version 700 says:

        Exactly right. They could be A LOT less expensive

      • Becks1 says:

        Exactly – and I think that’s part of the reason for the panic we are seeing from the courtiers now. My guess is in 10-20 years, the royal family will look very different and the various big events involving the family will also be different.

      • notasugarhere says:

        Lowrider, the ‘hangers on’ were raised to be working royals. That isn’t their fault, that’s the way the system worked. Beatrice and Eugenie were raised to be working royals, which is partly why they’ve flailed so much. Charles finally got his way on that one, against the Queen and Andrew, but it took years.

        Most of the royals who helped HM early on will pass in the next few years, natural attrition. Duke of Kent, Princess Alexandra. The Gloucesters are already stepping back, moved to a smaller apartment, hoping to retire and go to private life. Prince & Princess Michael of Kent are already half-in, half-out. Mostly those elders are kept on royal duties to give them a place to live. Only the Gloucesters have any money.

        Charles has the problem of all his siblings being working royals, which was accidental. He can sideline Andrew during his reign. He cannot sideline Anne because she won’t let him. He wanted to sideline Edward and Sophie, but the Queen and courtiers advocated for them. Now Sophie is kissing up to W&K, trying to make sure the bills at Bagshot are paid by taxpayers for decades to come.

        No point in blaming Harry as a ‘hanger on’ because he was raised to be a working royal his entire life. Told he was only there to support William, regardless of what that situation did to Harry. Pressured to leave his Army career because it made William look bad. Now he’s stood up to that, which is worth celebrating. But he shouldn’t be blamed because the system raised him to be part of it.

        As Becks1 has pointed out, how they’ve mistreated Harry and Meghan has set the stage to eliminate all but the firstborn as a working royal. W&K need to acknowledge only their eldest will be a working royal. Stop referring to their other two kids as HRH and by their titles, stop including them in PR photo ops.

        Those two are going to have to earn livings as Mountbatten-Windsors, not using HRH or their titles for anything. W&K should help them with that and stop using those kids as their PR props. Their lives will be much easier if they are raised, henceforth, as M-Windsors who have to earn a living and who will receive no taxpayer housing. Make the change now while they’re too young to notice or care.

      • BayTampaBay says:

        If anything, money is what will end the monarchy. To me, a Yank, it seems the UK subjects do want to pay for a Royal Family yet they get very upset when members of the Royal Family, those with an HRH in front of their name, attempt to become financially independent.

        The courtiers do not want ANY member of the BRF, those with an HRH in front of their name, to be financially independent as they, the courtiers, would lose any and all control they have. If you get rid of all HRHs but Charles, William and George, then courtiers really have no one to manage-control and, therefore, NO JOB with all the perks they so highly value.

    • windyriver says:

      Charles walking Meghan down the aisle and giving his arm to Doria on the church steps, plus the Queen inviting Meghan on the train trip, and pictures of them laughing together, were also turning points, even before Sussexit. Fascinating that we can identify those specific points in time, when different choices afterwards could have had such very different impacts for the monarchy.

      Of course, also looking back, the reactions of family members during Harry & Meghan’s wedding service, also meant the likelihood of the monarchy ending up anywhere other than where things now are were likely very slim.

      • Edna says:

        The family’s behavior during the wedding ceremony was appalling. I couldn’t believe my eyes at how disinterested they were. I’ve never seen “family” behave that way at a wedding. and given it was an international broadcast where millions of people around the world were watching, you’d think they’d have been on their best behavior. But I guess the Windsor’s really are that stupid and blind to their privileged behavior.

      • Nyro says:

        Edna, their behavior was atrocious. What a bunch of close-minded uncultured swine they are. Minus Charles, they all looked like rude snobs. Ofwilliam and Zara being two of the worst. Are they really that unfamiliar with the stylings of Black American church tradition? It shows that they never stepped foot in even a Black British chuch, whose pastors are similarly as expressive. That said, it doesn’t even matter if you’re familiar with the religious traditions of others, as an goddamn adult, you should know how to behave even if you are a backwoods British bumpkin who has no appreciation for what you’re experiencing. I was disgusted and offended. So I can only imagine what Harry and Meghan felt as they watched the video of their wedding. That must have hurt.

      • Tessa says:

        Kate and Camilla were smirking. Charles wants to welcome all faiths an be tolerant. Apparently William does not agree with this.

      • BayTampaBay says:

        QEII and the Future Charles III are not the problem and never were the problem.

      • Becks1 says:

        the queen and Charles are absolutely the problem because they made no moves to prevent Sussexit. They have enabled William and put their heads in the sand while their grandchild/child and his wife and new baby were being abused daily in the press.

        Nah. Charles and the Queen played a big role in this mess.

      • BayTampaBay says:

        @Becks1 – I was referring to all the racial harassment. IMHO, I do not believe that QEII or Charles originated the racial harassment. When I said, “they are not the problem”, I meant that they did not start the problem of racial harassment.

    • Alexandria says:

      Is it really a turning point? The Queen remains popular. Prince Andrew is still HRH and not arrested. Kate and William are still more popular than Charles. Lesser royals still have their HRH. The netizens still seem to be attacking HM aside from this site and black Twitter at most. No prominent UK celebrity or personality (white or minority) seem to speak up for HM or show solidarity. Correct me if I’m wrong.

      • Sid says:

        So then why can’t the BRF and the British media let it go and move on? If things are so jolly for them, why the need to keep leaking and reporting on House Sussex and even competing with them for attention? We even just got an article with obvious leaks from Charles/ Clarence House lamenting about how all poor Charles could do now was to try and be a good daddy and make sure his boy was okay over in the wilds of America. What is the point, if all is well in Windsorland?

      • notasugarhere says:

        A YouGov poll of 2000 people thinking QEII is popular doesn’t matter much. The UK is in chaos, there’s a global pandemic, the UK is failing to get trade deals. The old lady in the funny hats? Better things to worry about right now.

      • Becks1 says:

        That’s why I said I think we don’t realize the impact of it right now. I think it has changed the face of the royal family in a very permanent way, and not just because Harry lives in LA now – I think it will be the kind of thing people look back on in 20, 30 years and talk about.

      • MsIam says:

        You’re wrong. Their is plenty of support and U.K. celebs of all stripes have spoken up in support. Remember the female members of Parliament? And the majority of those anti voices are bots or paid followers. Trust, it’s because there is so much support for H&M that there is so much angst among the Cambridge’s and the courtiers. Otherwise why would they bother?

      • Alexandria says:

        Msiam I hope so.

  11. L84Tea says:

    So they’re basically confirming that they desperately need Harry–the prince that’s sooo irrelevent. Got it.

  12. JaneDoesWerk says:

    “We must protect the monarchy” say the people who actively harmed it with their nonsense.

    I think the courtiers would have bullied Meghan either way, but when William gave them permissions to deflect from his affair with Rose Hanbury it emboldened them in a way and during a time (Meghans pregnancy) that there would be no coming back from. That was the final straw for her and Harry, I think.

    • notasugarhere says:

      Good point. Courtiers were trying to prop up the idea of William as global force, while he was off in the Rose bushes. Kate expecting third child she got only after his public dad dancing holiday. Kate and Carole get upset about William cheating so close to home, we get William vs. Middletons for a bit, then they all rally together for ‘image’ and go after Meghan. Courtiers rub hands together in glee and start getting paid to leak-and-lie.

      • BayTampaBay says:

        William emboldened the press to harass Meghan but the the Sussexes not playing ball privately with the press, as all other British Royals do excepting QEII, gave the English Tabloid media a real ax to grind on the Sussexes.

        IMHO, William was just added support from the cheap seats.

      • notasugarhere says:

        William trading secrets about Harry and Meghan’s homes (Cotswolds, Frogmore, Canada) in exchange for the RRs shutting up about his affair. Him possibly being behind the ‘no royal jewelry for Meghan’ cabal with Angela Kelly. The shadiness around the Hubb kitchen money. Trying to force them to be ‘exiled to Africa’ because he’s jealous of competition.

        William wasn’t just adding support, he was a driving force behind the abuse.

      • BayTampaBay says:

        I do not consider “The shadiness around the Hubb kitchen money” as abuse. I consider it thievery and embezzlement.

        I am convinced now more than ever that the courtiers originated 90% of the abuse toward the Sussexes in an effort to control Meghan and William just piled on more abuse any way he could.

      • notasugarhere says:

        And I remain convinced William and Kate were in on the abuse from the beginning. They were afraid of how bad the team of Harry and Meghan would make them look, so they went all-in on the abuse to try to force Meghan out every step of the way.

  13. taylor says:

    If retaining and controlling Harry and booting Meghan was the goal, the whole smear campaign was such a poor miscalculation. In succeeding in getting large swathes of the British population to hate her, they’ve pushed both of them out, made Meghan an icon/one of the most famous women in the world, and pissed Harry off so much he’s not far out from openly (and rightly) calling out the institution for its racist past and present. Surely, there was a better way to preserve the monarchy (i.e. cover Andrew’s ass) that did not include cruelly ostracizing the only black member of the family.

    • Snuffles says:

      I think the goal was to HAZE Meghan until she either fell in line or she would quit and leave Harry. And, like everyone has said, Harry leaving WITH her was unfathomable. I also think the courtiers were shocked that Meghan got pregnant so quickly (Her Hater too – seeing the number of Twitter idiots absolutely CONVINCED that she faked her pregnancy).

      • Elizabeth Regina says:

        Meghan getting pregnant hurt the souls of her haters to the very core. They always held out for the possibility of fertility issues which they could have used to drive a wedge but our good sis was being looked out for by the universe.

      • Tessa says:

        I saw on sites that some hoped she was barren so the marriage could be dissolved. Never saw so much nastiness.

      • Liz version 700 says:

        To me the pregnancy was the turning point from backstabbing tittering to front stabbing bold harassment. The baby was a link to Meghan never to be broken and they were white hot mad (white being emphasized). It is why I hope if she gets/is pregnant again she literally Tweets/Instagrams out a birth announcement with a request to donate to a charity in said already born child’s name and that is the first the RF hear about it. I hope they are enjoying being together and in a peaceful place with no abusive family members. If I was Harry I would give security William’s picture and say tase on sight. Never would William come, but I would be that paranoid honestly after all we saw him do to Meghan

  14. S808 says:

    I can’t understand how they didn’t see the effects this could have on the monarchy long term. I get they didn’t expect Harry to leave with her (they really, really should’ve) but did they really think bullying the only mixed race duchess out of the country within 3 years wasn’t gonna have an effect? I said last year that they and the press were WAY too heavy handed with the smear campaign. There was no reason to go that hard on Meghan. They could’ve set the agenda without making a problem out of EVERYTHING and new fabrications coming out hourly. All the palace did was give them no choice but to leave. We ALL knew teaming up with the press would backfire spectacularly long term. They probably have evidence that a senior royal colluded with them to drive H&M our and will threaten them to gain further access, H&M are no longer under palace control and are still overshadowing the monarchy. From where I’m standing, the palace gained nothing. At this point they better hope the Sussexes show up to a family event or 2 a year.

    • Jegede says:


      They went after her for EVERYTHING.

      From the ever changing story of tiaragate, to her charities ‘ terrorist sympathiser”, her looks, her paternal family e.t.c.

      How much is one person to take??

      • Alexandria says:

        Jegede, exactly. It’s one thing for the BRF to be snobbish but for the complicit parties to continue their irrational attacks while Meghan was pregnant was just pure vile and very disturbing. It’s also very terrifying that they likely wanted her to miscarry. Yes I was shocked that HM announced their own plans, but now I’m so so glad Harry left.

    • bamaborn says:

      S808…yes! You have to shake your head at these people. So shortsighted. Not nuanced in the operation of the so called courtiers, but, just on a basic level I’d be like “you know what, a large share of the Commonwealth is made up of POC. Let’s see if we can’t use this Duchess to our advantage to really connect with them, after all, a large share of our constituents are older and getting even older.” No, that would make too much sense.

      • BayTampaBay says:

        “Let’s see if we can’t use this Duchess to our advantage to really connect with them,”

        The above was very much the plan of QEII and the Future Charles III.

    • FashionMaven says:

      I think their racism and classism got the better of them. Meghan’s popularity just kept growing with each attack… so they kept attacking harder, not understanding that it just raised her profile more. I think they didn’t understand that social media meant the UK and world public didn’t have to rely solely on the british tabloids for a full picture of Harry and Meghan. So we could see what they were doing and be drawn to it. I think H&M’s instagram account growth caught them offguard (which is why they were probably behind purchasing followers for the KP/Camb IG account to keep just barely ahead of the Sussexes). Their “the popularity has to lie with W&K!” comment proves they couldn’t bear to see the Sussexes get more followers.

      Proves the courtiers paid for followers for the Cambridges. Pitiful.

      People are drawn to the Dianas of the world and they actively made sure Kate was the antithesis of that and then William lost all his hair, having peaked at 17.

      So, with every smear, Meghan and Harry just got BIGGER. It didnt’ hurt that both had such impactful projects and were so authentic. The world ate it up – Meghan and Harry really are Diana 2.0.

      After that, and after she had the baby, I really think they just wanted to destroy her… it was only after Harry left they realized they messed up – hence all the begging for him to come back … alone.

      LMAO – they’re still clueless about how the world works. No one likes the heir more just because he’s the heir. People are drawn to authenticity, genuineness and goodness. Prince Harry had that in spades and then he married Meghan and they hit megastar status.

      They are now global icons and the rest of the BRF are just left behind in the dust. Courtiers must look at that cartoon pic of BRF in the fishbowl with H&M running away finding their freedom.

  15. Belli says:

    “We need to design a system to protect the monarchy full stop,”

    … why?

  16. Aurora says:

    Did anyone notice that Kate’s last two events were dropped on the same day as known scheduled events for Meghan? Both of Meghan’s virtual events were bookended by Kate’s BBC kiddie event and Little Village toy drop respectively. Kate’s events were pre-recorded/photographed so the timing was deliberate.

    • Lyn says:

      Aurora, yes I have noticed it. They cant say they didnt have notice of Meghan’s schedule because everyone knew in advance.

      Once is a coincidence, twice is a plan. I think they are actively positioning Kate to compete with Meghan. And not just on the day itself but on all platforms from the UK to USA.

      That they can’t handle the press Meghan gets on the day so they are inserting Kate into it. I can’t say its working though because Meghan was all over by a big margin. It will be interesting to see if Kate also has an engagement this Friday.

      • ArtHistorian says:

        If they are positioning Kate to compete with Meghan, they are setting her for a failure. Kate is nowhere near the league Meghan is in as a professional. They should just stop trying to compete with M, especially since she’s no longer working for the BRF.

      • Becks1 says:

        Every time they try to do this – have a Kate event “drop” to compete with Meghan – it just makes Kate look worse. Meghan is in a different league than her and always was. Kate is boring and dull compared to Meghan – and on the one hand that’s okay, she doesn’t have to be charismatic and exciting to be queen consort – but it does mean that every time KP tries to make it into a competition….Kate loses.

      • Nic919 says:

        Kate is more than boring. She’s proven to be very dim and she has a hard time even repeating prepared talking points without looking foolish. Making the back to back comparison with Meghan will point out the obvious incompetence every time.

    • Elizabeth Regina says:

      If I were the palace, I will actively avoid such scheduling conflict in the future. Poor Kate is just not capable. She couldn’t even articulate herself in an interview were she was FED the answers. She is no intellectual and they know it.

  17. KellyRyan says:

    Diana was the turning point. She raised two sons who were influenced by the way she was treated. One forced into a role of becoming king which I don’t believe he wanted and is the core of his resentments, the other abandoned by a, “family,” who proclaims duty first. PA, the criminal, has a family who will bail him out with payoffs and NDA’s. One of the issues which will keep the story at the forefront is Ghislane Maxwell, and the release of information. Another might be the Trump, Maxwell, Andrew, Epstein connection.

    • notasugarhere says:

      William is a mess of contradictions. He doesn’t want the work of being royal, but he wants the money, status, power, sycophancy. He wants the PR of appearing to care, but doesn’t honestly care about anyone but himself. He doesn’t want to be king, but he doesn’t want anyone else to be king either.

      He wanted plenty of other women, but sometimes that required effort. He’d cheat on Kate, with women who didn’t want to marry him, Kate was always be there clinging and waiting to take back the cheater. He cheats on her now, with women who have no desire to marry him, and Kate puts up with it.

      • Helen says:

        If Willileaks wasn’t the heir, he’d be just like Andrew.

      • BayTampaBay says:

        William does not want to be the center of attention with the subjects of the UK – his future subjects.

        William wants to be the center of attention with the titled aristocracy and wealth landed gentry aka…..Old Money, New Money and Real Money

      • A says:

        @nota, that’s not a contradiction at all though. We see it as such, because we know that getting an unearned reward without the requisite hard work speaks to something bad about ourselves. William thinks he is owed these things without having to work for them. And he has never been disabused of this notion by the royal family, because let’s face it, that’s what they all think too, to some extent. William just took that attitude to its extreme logical conclusion.

      • notasugarhere says:

        He thinks he is owed these things, but he hates the role that gives him those things. He wants to walk, but he wants the adulation of being royal.

  18. TheOriginalMia says:

    *face palm* The monarchy is being protected at all costs. That’s the problem. The feud between the brothers isn’t the problem. The fact the eldest brother and the courtiers used their power to belittle, abuse and demean their younger brother and his wife is a huge problem. The fact the Queen shields her perv son is a problem. Not a new family of 3 that just wants to be left alone.

    Royalists want to believe that all of this will blow over at some point. That the world will forget about Harry and Meghan and the Queen and BRF will regain their standing. Hate to break it to them, but that ship has sailed. The mystique and romanticism of the monarchy is gone. People see it for the biased institution it is, where laziness and mediocrity are exalted and protected. Where white is always right. People see that. The Commonwealth sees that. There’s no amount of buttons and Botox that put the shine back on this ancient relic. Congratulations, William. Just might get what you’ve always wanted. All the money in the world with no throne.

    • Elizabeth Regina says:

      I concur. The inhabitants of that family are just so lacking! Crisis reveals leadership and relationship building skills and all of them are just so bad at it. Them leaking to the press like a faucet destroyed any mystique that family had left. Now we know that the country is being run by a dress maker.

  19. aquarius64 says:

    The BRF screwed up royally, no pun intended. If Harry were ever to come back Meghan and Archie are a package deal (no divorce or abandonment of child); firing courtiers that are part of the smear; and stronger protection for the Sussexes against a rabid press.

    • Tessa says:

      It seems that the royals want a Madame Butterfly Scenario. Where the man has a child with a Japanese woman after they go through a marriage ceremony, Then the man comes back to Japan with his American wife and wants to take the child away so he and his American wife can raise him. It’s that type of awful thinking.

  20. Sofia says:

    They should have thought about all of this before but battling egos got in the way. But I love how we’ve gone from “Good Riddance, the drama is now gone!” To “Okay so we do need Harry back”

    You reap what you sow. So if these courtiers think Charles and William aren’t enough for the monarchy to continue then that’s a “them” problem now. And if it leads to the monarchy being abolished? Well I don’t think that’s such a bad outcome is it?

  21. Digital Unicorn says:

    You mean a system where the heir has complete control over the lives of those he sees as a threat or can be used to deflect from having sex with trafficked teenagers and trimming rose bushes.

    • notasugarhere says:

      In some other royal families, we do see awful ones like Andrew. Laurent in Belgium, but I put a lot of his behavior down to serious mental health issues. Cristina the criminal in Spain (and the former king himself).

      They’ve tried for years to make it look like Harry was this generation’s problem child, but we know it was William all along.

  22. Merricat says:

    Harry is never coming back, full stop.

  23. notasugarhere says:

    ‘Their relationship is still frosty as William remains upset by the fallout over Megxit.’

    William remains upset? Temperamental, petulant, abusive, racist William remains upset?

    Of course he’s upset, because many more people have seen William and Kate for what they truly are.

    • February-Pisces says:

      They thought the smear campaign would be a slam dunk, they didn’t expect people to see through their sh*t. If there had been no smear campaign whatsoever and they all got along, I would have still liked William and Kate, they could have all done their jobs, the RRs would have still had access to harry and Meghan and there wouldn’t have been a Sussex squad. But instead half the people (the liberal half) now hate William and Kate, the RRs lost valuable income without access to harry and Meghan, the monarchy looks racist AF, tabloids are getting sued and harry and Meghan have a hard core fanbase who are fighting their corner. They didn’t expect the Sussex squad, it’s like they had no idea that women of colour especially hadn’t experienced the same micro-aggressions and discrimination that Meghan has had.

      • bamaborn says:

        I honestly don’t know how they put the shine back on that ole clunker?

      • February-Pisces says:

        They didn’t expect to lose their most popular royal, but even worse is that the facade of William an Kate’s ‘perfect marriage’ has now been cracked beyond repair. Before they looked like any other boring old married couple, now their marriage will never be seen the same way again. They will never repair that image, the only way for William to look like the ‘perfect husband’ is if he starts again with someone new, obviously after throwing Kate under the bus for ‘breaking his poor little heart’. The courtiers have done so much damage and they will never admit responsibility.

      • Nic919 says:

        And Kate showing her bitchface at the commonwealth service was the cap to what had been going on behind the scenes for the last few years. Only delusional stans could deny the meaning behind that bitch face and it was especially obvious to women of colour who have dealt with the bitchy white princess in their own lives. Kate made herself the mascot for the bigoted white Karen’s who cannot accept that just being a skinny white woman does not mean that you get to control it all.

        The squad is devoted to Meghan (and Harry) in a way not seen since perhaps Diana, but I would argue it is more diverse and more worldwide than it ever was for Diana. And they have managed to more than once raise money for the charities Meghan supports. It is social power and economic power that the Cambridges can’t ever replicate. And it scares them because it is global support they will never have.

    • Liz version 700 says:

      Yep! Idle rich self congratulatory narcissistic people do hate and feel wounded when you fail to properly worship them and won’t divorce your wife and ignore your child to suit their needs. Sorry old chap. It is amazing to me that Harry was in this family surrounded by a full array of narcissistic people who never looked at him long enough to realize he was much stronger and more stubborn and angrier than any of them imagined. They never conceived the possibility of him leaving because they are all so self important they never bother to imagine much about others period.

  24. Elizabeth Regina says:

    The RF and courtiers are stuck in a time warp and were too stupid to notice that times have changed significantly. They were still using the same play book of smears and leaks without being smart enough to realise that for a number people it gave them a sense of deja vu, as they had seen the same thing happen to Diana and other wives of Windsor. Yes, M would have been hated anyway by the jealous and bitterly disappointed melanin deficient middle aged women but the RF and courtiers reckoned without it all backfiring on them. First by Harry leaving and secondly by M actually garnering unexpected support from a section of mainly international people they had overlooked. Also, the leaks revealed a house divided against itself and showed the inhabitants of that house to be severely lacking. Speaking as a Brit, most of us are disappointed in the RF as they proved to be absolutely useless at the height of the pandemic. When the Queen goes, that house of cards will come tumbling down unless Charles makes a show of reaching out and forcing a reconciliation.

    • Sid says:

      ITA Elizabeth, regarding the time warp, and it really ties into your comment about life after QEII. If this whole thing ever falls apart, I think her longevity on the throne will ironically end up being the very thing that sent the dominoes falling.

      • Lady D says:

        I believe that by staying on the throne long past when she should have handed it over, she has stunted any growth the RF might have made since Diana. She should have retired in 2000, it would have been an ideal time and maybe moved the family forward into the bright shiny 21st century.

      • morrigan01 says:

        @Lady D you hit the nail on the head. QEII stayed on the throne lone past when she should have. If she had even just retired in 2010 it would have been late, but still not too late for the Monarchy to adjust to the modern world somewhat, even thought it would have been under Charles who, himself is no spring chicken but who was ahead of his time in many ideas like the environment and religion back in the day, ideas which the modern world has now caught up to and normalized.

        But it’s way too late now.

        I’m not British, so I don’t know who they feel, but I think the British people might let Charles have the throne at least, given he’s waited so long for it. But he’ll probably be the last true King the UK has as things might begin under his reign to end it all after he’s gone. I can see such a scenario playing out very easily. At the very least, I think any countries in the Commonwealth that have the current Queen or King as their head of state will break away from that under Charles. QE2 had to fight for Charles to be the head anyway. They’ll feel no loyalty to stay once she’s gone.

  25. Mumbles says:

    It may be, as the book suggests, that Harry was looking for a way out already by the time he met Meghan. But the institution’s big mistake was not finding the Sussexes a space for them to thrive in their own way, if not morally, than as a business decision. This weekend there was a wedding of some royal adjacents in the DM and it was the same hyphenated-name inbreds and their glommers that are in every such story. The Kate Tatler story showed how dumb and mean that crowd is.

    Giving institutional support to someone who didn’t fit that mold and represented an embrace of the modern world would have been a coup for selling a dying institution to the 99% of the people who at best ignore them, and at worst loathe them.

    • BayTampaBay says:

      “The Kate Tatler story showed how dumb and mean that crowd is.”

      @Mumbles – I must disagree. The Tatler crowd is not dumb, not by a long shot. The Tatler crowd did not turn on Karen Keen and get mean until she tried to f*#K with them.

      • A says:

        I think the Tatler readership, particularly the country home aristocratic crowd, are definitely dumb and mean in their outlook of the world. Kate and her family aren’t great people, but let’s not excuse the outrageous snobbery that came from this crowd though. Nothing excuses that sort of disgusting attitude, because that’s not simply reserved for Kate. It’s how they look at and treat everyone who they think is more “common” than they are. And let’s not even get started on what they think of the working class, the poor, or anyone who’s unfortunate enough to rely on benefits, or be grateful for the NHS for healthcare. Think of Boris Johnson, but quieter and behind closed doors. That’s the aristocracy and the aristo-adjacent crowd.

        @Mumbles has a point. The aristocracy, far more than even the monarchy, is a lot stupider, and a lot more narrow in their views. They are just as entitled, if not more so, and much more self-preservationist than even the monarchs.

      • notasugarhere says:

        A, the Tatler crowd is said to respect Meghan (albeit grudgingly) because she doesn’t care about them. Someone who looks them straight in the eye and basically says, ‘No, you are not worth my effort’. All along aristocrats didn’t like Kate because she was a blatant social climber. She wasn’t someone who stood up and said, ‘I have value in myself, you haven’t earned my respect’.

        Many members of the aristo crowd know their time is limited, the tide is turning, they’re out working hard to earn livings or dumping the family estates on the government for upkeep. They’re learning a title doesn’t matter.

  26. Harper says:

    If they truly wanted to preserve the monarchy they should have let William bolt early on. His Royal Sourpuss is not fit to lead anyone and he has been perfectly clear that he prefers a private life. The courtiers and Charles and the Queen have been placating Will for years, but they can’t control Harry’s popularity and how it overshadows Will, nor can they control Will’s reactions to Harry’s popularity. IF Will aided and abetted the Meghan smear campaign, it was either one of two things: approved by the palace or a royal power grab on Will’s own part. I highly doubt the Queen is really cognizant of the long-term damage that was done, but it might be sinking in on Charles’ end, not only that they lost Harry probably forever, but that this is what happens when Will is off-leash and starts using his power and influence for his own betterment.

    We have to remember that the palace truly believes that preserving Will & Kate’s happy family image is their number one priority. They do not want a repeat of Charles & Diana, with the heir to the throne sneaking around and sleeping around in various country homes and castles, just like a typical aristocrat. Kate & Will have enormous pressure on them because the palace truly fears that if Wills falls like his father did then the monarchy may be dunzo. That’s why Kate got the royal order for keeping mum and not pulling a Diana by going to the press about the turnip toff story. The problem is that, in pursuing one goal and abusing Harry to achieve it, they blew up the monarchy in a completely new way. Charles is probably pulling out his hair trying to come up with a plan to bring Harry & Meghan back without Will going incandescent. All this press that William is “hurt’ is just a cover because what’s really going on with Wills has to be kept quiet.

    • Snuffles says:

      The only way Harry and Meghan will come back is to give them complete autonomy (and cleaning house of all the bad seed courtiers). But I doubt Will would ever accept that. Thus our current conundrum.

      • BayTampaBay says:

        The Sussexes will never be allowed or given complete autonomy no matter who is sitting on the throne.

    • notasugarhere says:

      William is frozen by his own dichotomies. He doesn’t want to be king, but he doesn’t want anyone else to be king either. He wants the power, sycophancy, wealth of the position – but not the work that comes with it. He wants the image of a happy family, while he wants to be free from his wife and remain a free agent living as a single man.

      • Harper says:

        Exactly. He doesn’t want the work, which is why we now see Wills combining his love of sports with his royal causes. Hobnobbing with players from his favorite sports teams under the guise of talking about mental health. Promoting conservation so he can impress Jecca or jaunt off for a hunting break with his pals. I don’t even think he cares about the happy family image except for the fact that the hierarchy above him is terrified of a Wills/Kate divorce and Will probably even uses that as leverage to get his way. Every time Will hears someone repeat the folklore that he was too affected by his parents’ breakup to ever cheat in his own marriage, he probably laughs. There is an image manufactured for him that the monarchy is desperate to preserve, and Will knows this, it has gone to his head, and he does the bare minimum because he is so protected.

      • TheOriginalMia says:

        Exactly, Nota! He doesn’t really care about being king beyond the social power it gives him and the immense wealth.

        Harper, I bet he laughs too because he knows Kate will never divorce him. She wants the crown too badly. She has no self-respect. So, he gets to trim as many bushes as he likes, and the courtiers, Kate, Ma Midds, and the Rota will cover it up for him. It’s a win win situation for him.

      • A says:

        He doesn’t just want the image of a family–he wants a family, and domestic atmosphere, but doesn’t want to do the work to foster that on his own. He wants a wife who will bear his children, and keep his house, and have a hot meal for him at the end of the day, so that he can unwind and relax and enjoy the benefits and happiness that comes from such domestic bliss, but he doesn’t want to shoulder the responsibilities that it entails. He wants none of the work, and all the rewards.

        It takes strength and courage to rebuild your life from whatever shattered and unfulfilling childhood you might have had. But William would prefer someone else do the legwork for him, and he can swan in and enjoy the end results.

      • February-Pisces says:

        Yep. The thing with Willie is he wants to be seen as ‘dutiful’ but doesn’t want to Do any actual work. He wants to be seen as a ‘mr nice Guy’ without having a kind bone in his body. He wants to be seen as ‘the perfect husband and father’ but is cheating on his wife, sees his kids ‘when he can’ and may or may not have a few illegitimates knocking around. He thinks he can be the person he really wants to be by getting the press to write it, rather than actually put work and effort into really being that person.

        Their work during the coronavirus Lockdown was entirely self serving and just one big PR stunt. He didn’t give AF about what was actually going on. He even had the fail make up a poll about which royals have handled the pandemic “ the best” with the Keenbridges coming second to the queen, whilst obviously harry and Meghan were at the bottom. He doesn’t work unless there’s a round of applause afterwards.

    • Lowrider says:

      Charles only wants Harry to return, not Meghan. He had plenty of opportunities to stand up and show support for the Sussex’s after the wedding but that NEVER happened.

      All palaces were in cahoots in kicking out Meghan.

      • A says:

        I think they’d be okay with Meghan coming back, but she’d have to agree to play by their rules. Which means behaving deferentially, accepting the poor treatment, not speaking out about asking for better, accepting that she will not be supported by the institution and she shouldn’t expect to be, accepting that she will be thrown under the bus constantly, and all with a smile on their face. But not a too dazzling smile, because that might upset and upstage Kate.

      • BayTampaBay says:

        @Lowrider – Charles has never stood up and shown support for anyone except Camilla and he never will. Charles DOES NOT like any type of confrontation let alone emotional confrontation.

      • A says:

        @Bay, even with Camilla, Charles only stepped up when it came to defending his own desires, rather than for Camilla’s own sake. He openly stated, multiple times after his divorce, that he would never remarry, because at the time, there was genuine question as to how the divorce + remarriage would affect his constitutional ability to succeed to the throne as King. It was only after those obstacles were put behind him, and he knew for a fact that remarriage wouldn’t affect his ability to succeed, that he went ahead with marrying Camilla. Otherwise, he was cool with keeping her as his mistress.

      • BayTampaBay says:

        @A – You have a point. IMPO, if Diana had lived, I do not believe Charles would have remarried as I doubt the public would have accepted it and I see no way the Church of England could have accepted.

      • notasugarhere says:

        The Church of England has allowed remarriage after divorce for almost 20 years now. Not only are they strapped for cash and needing more membership? They cannot stand up and claim Christian principles while cutting off 40 percent of the UK’s Christian population.

  27. notasugarhere says:

    Quick timeline. So much of this was driven by William’s jealousy, by Kate and Carole’s jealousy. By the courtiers doing everything they could to ruin Harry and Meghan’s lives.

    Someone leaked info about a Cotswolds rental as early as May 2018. Courtiers? W&K? Carole?

    Someone (courtiers, W&K, Carole), leaked Frogmore Cottage info direct to a W&K ass kisser (Andrews?)

    September 2018 Together Cookbook is released

    Within a month or two, there’s already quiet rumblings of money grabs, desire for a separate Household, desire for a separate Foundation. Having to protect Hubb money from misuse by the existing Foundation. The rumblings got louder in December.

    October huge success of a tour

    Dec 2018 Carole gives two interviews, pro-Middleton PR

    Dec 2018 pressured stay at Anmer Hall for Christmas. Trying to play nice while knowing W&K were stabbing them in the back.

    Dec 2018 More leaks about the Cotswolds rental. One of the W&K-friendly RRs, one they always leak to, gets the info.

    Early January 2019 illegal drone photos take of Cotswolds home. They moved out immediately, back to NottCott, and filed a lawsuit

    Talk of separate office staff within the same Household bandied about. They’d get separate staff but William would still have overall control, they’d still be under KP banner.

    Feb 2019 successful quick tour to Morocco. They extend their stay to spend a night at the royal palace after the king invited them. Many royals who visit Morocco never get that invite.

    Spring 2019 the Household split, but with Harry and Meghan moved under BP not a separate Household still under William’s thumb

    Spring 2019 Archie’s birth, move to Frogmore

    May 2019 Harry wins lawsuit against Cotswolds photos

    June 2019 announcement of Foundation split

    • S808 says:

      Knowing what we know now I’m wondering if someone from the brf leaked to Camila T that H&M were dating in the first place….I remember a tweet from Richard Palmer saying W&K were at risk of becoming the villains unless Harry had a love interest. These people are really are a reality show for the country.

      • notasugarhere says:

        I wouldn’t be surprised if W&K or one of the courtiers leaked it. We got the story about it sometime Nov/Dec. That Harry had already told Household staff in Sept his relationship with Meghan was IT. Get ready, start prepping, because she’s it.

  28. Osty says:

    Those palace creatures, their masters and media should pick a lane and stick to it. What happened to being happy that the drama has left, or the heirs being the relevant ones or the new year pic which clearly showed the key players in the success of the monarchy. Or most importantly what happened to Catherine the great, king maker , the glue that will stick the monarchy together and her side kick ford fiesta?

    • MsIam says:

      If these weren’t real people involved, it would be the most hilarious over the top soap opera ever. “ You’re irrelevant!” “. “Come back!” “No one supports you!” “We’re brothers!” I wonder if this more of a war between William and Charles and their camps than a war between “brothers”? I think Harry is just a pawn.

      • BayTampaBay says:

        It is a war on the first front between Willnot & Harry.

        It is a war on the second front between Meghan & the courtiers.

      • Lowrider says:

        A pawn is the correct descriptor for Harry.

      • A says:

        @MsIam, I think the war is between the realities of the present and the future, vs the idealized past that the courtiers are still following the playbook from. The incongruency between the two is what’s causing the issues at hand. This, plus the fact that the Queen is old, and people like Charles are looking to increase their influence.

    • bamaborn says:

      Oh, you forgot “The New Fab Four”, Charles, Camilla, Wills and Kate. *snicker*

  29. DeeDee says:

    Why are H & M expenses/ finances while in the US, still cause for scrutiny & criticism?

  30. Lizzie says:

    Who else do we know who obsesses over being overshadowed? HA, trump will fire you for being on the cover of a magazine. William seems to be just as much of a narcissist however he has an entire establishment trying to make him appear normal.

  31. Marjorie says:

    Thought I’d add that Harry is a captain in the British army, he spent 10 years of his life serving, he graduated from officer training school at Sandhurst, and he did two deployments in Afghanistan. William will never come close to that. I believe, but of course I don’t know, that Harry was recalled from the army because William saw how successful he was becoming.

    • notasugarhere says:

      They were phasing out the Apache helicopters at that time, but Harry could have trained on the new ones. If he had, he’d have ended up promoted to a higher rank than William.

      • Priscila says:

        We got our answer then- William would never allow Harry to outrank him…

        BTW: what about William considering returning to pilot helicopters to fight against Covid? Where did this story go? Was it buried on the same place as the Five Questions Survey?

    • sarah says:

      I don’t think this is right. I think Harry was a good soldier but (a) he would never have got into Sandhurst based on his own achievements (he didn’t have the academic qualifications for it); and (b) he left the army at what is quite a traditional crunch point for officers (just prior to making major). That rank requires more than just flying helicopters but takes you into strategic and management roles and all I have heard is that he wasn’t going to be able to make that step up based on his own performance.

      To add, I have a lot of really great friends who loved being in the army who didn’t make that step up to Major so this is not supposed to be a diss on Harry. Its just to point out that just staying in longer would not have necessarily equaled success and/or been an option for Harry.

      • TheOriginalMia says:

        sarah, I’ve seen both stories. That William didn’t want him achieving a higher rank and that the next step in his career would have necessitated a desk job, which Harry refused.

  32. yinyang says:

    Briitish govt have unerestimated the whole coronovirus issue AND have secret deals with RF. Biritish people need to stop putting so much trust in their govt.

    • sarah says:

      There is a massive practical and legal difference between the elected government and the royal family.

    • yinyang says:

      This is why we need to get rid of the monarchy, it’s heading to a sinister place. I honestly think with Charles and DIana we had a chance, they were more new aged, their popularity happened organically. William was raised by friends and staff and middletons, his personality seems very far from his parents, hs authority seems dictorial, all this setting up teams with taxpayer funds to dupe the taxpayer is plain evil. This is what he puts all his energy into, not farming and hanging with spiritual gurus like his father, world domination. President are famous and memorable (and they’re in pwoer only 4-8 years max) Imagine what a King with greedy mentality can do with all the popularity, gereartional wealth and establishment, the monarchy is too big as it is absolutely no more protecting them GET RID OF THEM NOW BEFORE THEY BECOME A BIGGER MONSTER!

  33. candy says:

    In my opinion, the monarchy will still remain moderately relevant without H&M. It may not be as popular, but it’s constitutionally secure. If the UK is anything like the US, changing the constitution is not easy. It’s interesting though in the context of all the other social movements in the world at this very moment and how that will play out for the monarchy. H&M’s exit was a week long newsmaker, but no way their exit is as big a blow as Diana’s death. When the Queen dies, her funeral will bring enormous coverage and public support, to the level of W&K’s wedding.

    • Priscila says:

      It is not easy because the UK does not have a Constitution per se. It is the Magna Carta and a bunch of sparse Laws. There cannot be changed what does not exist.

      My reading of the situation is that they count on inertia. Every brit I know say it would be a mess to have them out, so they prefer to pay them. The thing with inertia is, the way William is behaving, he will not be happy with inertia alone. Charles is because he went from popular to villain in space of two decades, and having people be indifferent towards him is a win..

      In this sense, William is their greatest weakness and I think the point of Sussexit for many was showing how little William and Kate do and how petty they can behave when not in a controlled environment.

      The real test is endurance. Will the future generations have reason to keep William as King? Would they be attached to William as people are to Elizabeth? They are seeing the world changing, the courtiers, and this is quite a time to be worried.

      • candy says:

        ‘They are seeing the world changing, the courtiers, and this is quite a time to be worried.”

        Agree and very interesting. This is as big a social uprising as I’ve seen in my lifetime. Not sure if it’s the same in the UK, but people here in the US are really questioning our cultural heritage and what we’re willing to celebrate and what we want to tear down in symbolizing the past. The monarchy is the ultimate symbol of the past, save perhaps religion. The question is will that translate in terms of an uproar? Depends on whether people care enough or are moved enough by the association to oppression. It’s a bit of a leap in terms of today’s monarchy, since the whole image they cultivate is “boxed vanilla cupcake,” which is offensive in itself if you’re looking at it through a subtle lens. There are enough elements to sympathize with still, for now, and I think they are clever are regenerating the same elements, intertia like you described: weddings, funerals, coronations, stability. For charles to go from hated to neutral, as you pointed out, is quite a feat.

        The difference between william and elizabeth is obvious, her embrace of the role vs his lack of engagement. For what it’s worth, elizabeth has great pride in the institution and the Crown, which seemingly has never wavered.

    • Becks1 says:

      I do think the Queen’s death will result in a huge outpouring of support for the royal family and enormous coverage. Her funeral will be attended by world leaders, significant Brits, CEOs, etc. And people will rally around the royal family and we will see Charles crowned (knowing his coronation ceremony wont be immediate) and there will be lots of pomp and pageantry and then………we have Charles as king, with William waiting in the wings.

      I don’t think the monarchy will just end, because as others have pointed out, its not that simple. But I think it will be interesting to see how things are a year or two after the queen’s death, in terms of public perception.

      • notasugarhere says:

        I think there will be plenty of people screaming about the costs of the funeral and the costs of a coronation. Lots of rising voices questioning 600 million being spent annually on this family. And once the Queen is gone, open season on criminal Andrew and how the family protected him from prosecution.

      • A says:

        I think that, if the monarchy does end, it won’t happen with a referendum, or even through the mere loss of public support. I think the role of the monarchy will come into increasing question based on the legalities of the position. And this will not be a discussion that’s simple or easy, and it damn sure won’t simply be up to the UK alone. Let’s not forget, the Queen is the head of state for a ton of different countries around the world. In Canada, the Crown has a legal role, which if the monarchy is abolished, is then in question. This is not a simple matter to resolve. There are treaties and such signed between parties and the Crown, not the Canadian govt, which might have to be renegotiated and redone. This part especially is going to be a problem, for a lot of different people.

        Given the complexity of this situation, I do not trust the UK or its govt to handle this properly with a mere referendum. Look at how Brexit went. I do not trust the powers at hand to educate the population on the subject, and what the repercussions of it will be, in any depth whatsoever. This is not something you can leave up to a referendum in the UK alone. It must be put to all the countries for whom the monarch is the head of state. This cannot be like Brexit, where people voted to leave, and then found out that no, they can’t keep their vacation homes in France, and retire for cheap in Spain, any longer. This is going to be much more gnarly than a 45 wait at the non-EU line in the airport, or imaginary customs borders in the Irish sea, or blue passports. It could also cost a lot more people, a lot more money. Any steps taken must be considered carefully in that light.

      • BayTampaBay says:

        I think the monarchy will survive, but in a very different form, because I do not think any UK citizen wants to see President Boris Johnson’s face staring out the windows of Buckingham Palace.

      • Nic919 says:

        The Crown as a legal concept could be changed to another word. Pass a law that states that all obligations owed by the Crown in treaties are passed on to this new entity. The GG being a horrible boss has raised the issue again of the necessity of a GG in Canada.

        Canada already doesn’t match the UK in terms of succession laws because the Canadian Supreme Court doesn’t care to hear cases on the issue.

        Once the Queen passes many Commonwealth countries that still have the British sovereign as head of state are going to take a hard look at what they want to do. The UK is probably too tied up with this damaged family, but the rest of the world does not feel that the British royal family is one of them.

      • A says:

        @Nic919, saying “change it to a new word” simplifies the matter. The Crown is not a word. It’s a legal entity. And you can’t simply pass a law that states all obligations owed by the Crown with respect to treaties will now be fulfilled by the new legal entity.

        There’s the complicated matter of all the other parties who are signatories to the treaty, who have more than a little say in the subject of which entity they wish to sign treaties with. That’s the major sticking point, especially since so much of the land that Canada comprises of was negotiated through those treaties between the Crown and First Nations peoples across the country.

        As I said, this is an incredibly complicated, and hugely delicate issue. When you delve into the specifics, it unearths some really difficult questions about colonialism, and what a nation-state, especially one built off of colonialism, is comprised of.

        This is a can of worms that can, and already has, called into question the legitimacy of the Canadian govt itself in the eyes of many First Nations people. For many of them, they rely on and respect the Crown as an entity, not because they care about the celebrity circus of the family itself, but precisely because of its function, and because they feel that the partnerships their ancestors entered with the Crown are meaningful ones, which were disrupted by Confederation.

        These are issues that, as a country, Canada is not equipped or prepared to handle right now, if abolishing the monarchy is on deck. This sort of dismissive attitude, that fails to prioritize and take into account indigenous points of view, is a huge problem. It’s not about words or entities, or the GG’s bad behaviour. I’d suggest people read up on some of the opinions that indigenous people in Canada have on the subject before dismissing the issue so offhand.

      • notasugarhere says:

        You can change the definition of ‘The Crown’ so it removes the idea of a monarch.

        Either way, monarchy could continue without 600 million a year in annual costs, and without the shadowy finances being hidden by ‘privacy’ laws.

  34. Coco says:

    As if the British monarchy is the wilting enchanted rose under glass in ‘Beauty and the Beast,’ not a bloodthirsty institution and the head of a ruthless empire that exploited and subjugated millions over centuries.

  35. Chelsea Poole says:

    How about this: dissolve the monarchy. It’s an expensive and unnecessary drain on the UK/World. The end.

  36. sarah says:

    For what it’s worth my view is that the writing was on the wall for the monarchy before Meghan, but that if they had properly welcomed and protected her they would have had an opportunity to extend their supposed relevance beyond the death of the Queen. As it is, the Andrew crisis is likely to speed up their demise. *Hopefully* the natural progression will be that following the Queen’s death all the commonwealth countries who have her as head of state will not take on Charles, and then the UK will follow suit some time later. Fingers crossed.

  37. Mabs A'Mabbin says:

    The only way to save this ridiculousness (if anyone actually wants to) is for the royal family to bend the knee. To their country. To Harry and Meghan. To the world. Bend the knee and recommit to service which benefits everyone. Apologize for past behaviors by outlining them, addressing them and illustrate how they’ll go forward with solutions. In other words, work for their positions.

  38. KW says:

    I just came to say that the statement that Harry had to protect his wife from his brother is a loaded one. This is what I want more info on because this is what will damage so much once revealed.

    • Vanessa says:

      That a good question like what was William planning on doing to Meghan that Harry felt that he had to protect his wife from his brother . I think William and Kate though that if they bullied Meghan enough she would walk away and then Harry will come to the fold they overplayed their hands the whole world saw the Cambridge’s especially kate true colors and now their having a heavy dose of Karma coming their way.

    • ArtHistorian says:

      Yeah, that statement hints at something very bad – something beyond William telling Harry to slow down in his relationship with Meghan.

      • Feeshalori says:

        Tin foil theory: I’ve often wondered if Meghan was referred to by a racial slur to Harry, perhaps by William himself, or to Meghan directly by a family member or courtier. Or if there were threats of bodily harm being done to her couched in veiled language. That would definitely be explosive enough for Harry and Meghan to pack their bags and get out of there pronto with Archie. And more than enough reason for a deep rift in the family.

    • notasugarhere says:

      There is a photo out there of William looking Meghan up-and-down at an RAF event in July 2018. The same event in the first photo Kaiser used in this story. Completely inappropriate look from William caught in an instant. Kate stone faced, Harry looking angry, Meghan looking almost scared. I wonder if something happened there.

      Whatever the trigger, it was bad enough that Harry is willing to leave his brother’s kids at the mercy of Andrew as potential Regent.

      • Ennie says:

        I don’t know about that, but when they were at the balcony, William had to prod Kate maybe three times to get her To move and make some space for Harry and Meghan, who were behind them. She was keen on staying put where she wanted to stand and seemed very annoyed at having to allow them there.

      • notasugarhere says:

        I believe that event was the Trooping in 2018, when Kate refused to move out of the way.

  39. Regency Agglemooresbottome IV says:

    Perhaps it is the courtiers who are clinging to old dead institutions,and should at once, let go.

  40. DeeDee says:

    This is not a criticism. H & M have as friends: Clooney’s, Oprah, Serena Williams, among others. They possess a larger celebrity social network than the monarchy. This is where as Lainey Gossip points out that there is an element of true celebrity with these two. This, the monarchy can’t compete with that factor. Thus the status of W & K will always be diminished. Mud or no mud. However H & M maybe need to accept their role as celebrities vs non working royals… or is it the public that must adapt?

    • notasugarhere says:

      ‘their role as celebrities’? That’s a big stretch there, DeeDee. They have famous friends. That doesn’t mean their goal is to be ‘celebrities’. Do you lump their friends Barack and Michelle Obama in there as ‘celebrities’ too? Harry and Meghan are globally recognized, and have plans to work in the humanitarian sector wherever in the world interests them.

      • Steph says:

        I don’t think celebrity is that much of a stretch. I guess it depends on if you define it as anything other than a famous person. To you, does it mean people who are famous because of their work in entertainment? Anywho, I think they’ll still have to use their name recognition to continue their work and I don’t see anything wrong with that.
        I also think that’s a major reason Harry will never go back. Even if he mended his relationship with his family and got a divorce. He’s passionate about his work and once he sees (probably already has) how much more he can do without the royal restrictions, he won’t give it up.

      • notasugarhere says:

        It is a stretch, particularly when the hater crowd uses it as an attack. They are globally recognized, but what we’ve seen, they haven’t been out there every day trying to get attention like ‘celebrities’. They are slowly, quietly going about building a charity profile to use the attention for good.

  41. aquarius64 says:

    Still have the wish of the end of the House of Windsor and the rise of the new royal house of Sussex with King Henry (Harry) IX and Queen Consort Meghan with Archie as heir apparent HRH the Earl of Dumbarton. Or William loses the throne because of blood or due to treason level actions.

  42. A says:

    “We need to design a system to protect the monarchy.” EXCELLENT. I agree 100% with this. Are they taking suggestions? Because here’s a few of mine:

    1. Raise your heirs and your spares with a sense of decency and self-respect for themselves, and each other.

    2. Don’t foster a culture of jealousy and pettiness.

    3. Fire the outdated courtiers, and hire some new ones. People who exist outside of the aristocratic sphere. Has there ever been anyone aside from a white man who’s had the important positions in the household? This has an impact on which perspectives are filtering through to them, and which aren’t.

    4. Stop expecting unquestioned deference. Learn to accept criticism, and work with new points of view, even if you don’t like them or agree with them.

    5. Protect the married-in members of your family. Even the ones who aren’t royal or aristocratic. Stop throwing some people to the wolves to boost others, that’s not gonna make you look good.

    6. Be transparent in your finances.

    7. Don’t act like any of you are above the law. Stop using your influence, constitutional or otherwise, to protect criminals, or to shield people from accountability or repercussions.

    8. Pull your heads out of your asses, and realize that in order for the monarchy to survive, you have to represent the people. And the people of Britain are no longer just the lily white Little Englanders. If this is the only group you choose to pander to, or consider as important, well, you might as well start writing the eulogies now.

    Bonus 9. Start looking into constitutional reform in the UK, and what that’s going to entail, because that’s going to be crucial to the monarchy continuing in whatever form it does in the future.

    • yinyang says:

      10. Get off the public dole. Lol.

    • Deedee says:

      If you’re one of these walking anachronisms in the 21st century, you should’ve started looking for a real job a long time ago. Let people who really care about the causes do the PR, move out of the potential art galleries, museums and public spaces you’re living in and work for your money like the rest of us.

  43. Sandra says:

    The photo of the four of them at the Commonwealth Service. My god. Kate’s face is so tense she looks like she’s holding in a killer fart and failing, William’s looking at Kate like she farted and he’s hella annoyed at it. I can feel Harry’s rage all the way across the ocean from the look on his face. And then there’s Meghan who looks like knows she’s above all the petty bull**** and is easy breezy because she’s counting the seconds until she’s back on that plane to Canada.
    Added bonus: bald guy to the right totally smelled the fart and is nauseated.

  44. Mentos_fresh says:

    I find it so weird the palace courtiers comments about Meghan as a “showgirl” and having “lots of baggage”. She has a career, is well educated and savvy, is independently wealthy…so what if she is divorced! By most people’s standard she is a successful person that has it together…the royal family seem so backwards and unmodern 🤷

  45. Well-Wisher says:

    The palace have a blueprint to save the monarchy, it is called King George V 1917 Papers. It has the terms of which the monarchy will continue to be relevant in the UK. Simply put – at the behest of a majority of the British population. Its members have to engage in voluntary services as most do especially Harry and Meghan.

    Instead, there is a thoroughly modern system in which popularity is based on inept surveys from the BTM , non-taxpayers of which only 7% of the population believes. This is a bad business arrangement which is unsustainable. The HR department of the Royal Family should make this required reading for all important employees of the firm.
    Remember that courtiers are simply employees, who should not have been a part (along with the 2 royals and Carole) of a sustained campaign of vilification of the Sussexes (especially Meghan) that routinely relying on innuendo and falsehoods, not to mention racism.
    If the worry is about William being disrespected, he would have to earn his respect from the unwashed masses without a manufactured ‘fool’s.
    As Harry has rejected the traditional role of Court Buffoon which the courtiers and tabloids have forced upon “spares” in the past.
    Instead he has matured into a diligent charity worker, a proper and loving husband and father. In short Harry has become an adult.

  46. Sarah says:

    Can confirm am tired of paying for their lavish lifestyle I am so over it we need to help average folk in this recession