If you didn’t notice, I’m completely obsessed with all of the “setting the record straight” stories in Finding Freedom. Maybe it’s because of my encyclopedic memory for completely random gossip, but it feels so good to have solid confirmations and denials on so many of the tabloid stories which were coming out for years about the Duke and Duchess of Sussex. The sections of FF about Archie’s birth are particularly illuminating, because there was so much nastiness and saltiness in the coverage at the time. Something I’ve always been curious about was the process of naming Archie and the decision to not give him any kind of title at birth. Knowing what we know now, I suspect the viper courtiers would have had a sh-t fit if Harry had insisted on giving Archie a royal title. I also suspect that by the time Meghan gave birth, Meghan and Harry were completely worn out by the smear campaign and they were already loosely planning their post-royal future, and they wanted Archie’s name and lack of title to reflect that. From FF:
Harry and Meghan already had a name ready to go when Archie was born, because the couple had known all along that they were having a boy. According to a source, they settled on their son’s name some time during the final week of her pregnancy. The couple wanted something traditional, a name that was powerful even without a title in front of it. Archie, meaning strength and bravery, fit the bill. “They thought about Archibald for all of one second,” a friend of the couple said with a laugh. “He was always going to be little Archie.” (Mountbatten-Windsor is the surname used by all male descendants of the Queen and Prince Philip. Royals with titles don’t typically use surnames.)
Harry and Meghan—who were going to register Archie for dual citizenship—decided to forgo a title for their son, because they wanted him to be a private citizen until he was at an age where he could decide which path he would like to take. A source said the pair both worried about the day Prince Charles becomes king and Harry’s children could inherit the titles of prince or princess. They shared their concerns with Charles, who said he would consider when he became king issuing a new letters patent, a legal instrument in the form of a written order issued by a reigning monarch, that would change this style. “To not have a senior role in the royal family but have a title,” a senior aide close to the couple said at the time, “is just a burden.”
[From Finding Freedom: Harry, Meghan, and the Making of a Modern Royal Family]
This is fascinating! The repeated insistence that Harry and Meghan both wanted to forgo a title for Archie is consistent – people said that at the time, that it was Harry and Meghan’s decision and the Queen and Charles backed them up. Still, I imagine there was some relief among the courtiers that they didn’t have to wage that war. As for choosing the name Archie ahead of time… well, okay. I still think they could have chosen better, but maybe “Archie” suits him. And it’s fascinating that when Charles becomes king, he might issue a letters patent about his grandchildrens’ titles.
Photos courtesy of WENN, Avalon Red, Backgrid.
I’m happy Harry has his own family now.
I so needed that picture of Archie this morning. 💚
Yes! A cute baby makes everything better.
I love that picture of him drooling over the cakes. Very relatable, Archie.
Yes! It was the perfect angle! He looks like he’s readying to make a dive for one.
I know he was drooling because of teething, but it also works that he was looking at the cakes.
I can never get enough, but I can understand if others are getting worn down. 🙂
so they really are Riverdale fans
Ha!
And dude, can we just appreciate what a class act Meghan’s Mom always seems to be? I get why she’s the one Harry and Meghan want to be close to, and influence their son.
I don’t think that’s unusual. My best friend and I picked out her daughter’s name when we were in high school. (Her daughter was conceived through in vitro) after a whimsical musing conversation of “if we have kids in the future, what would we name them?” My son has the same middle name we picked out long ago as well.
I’ve never heard of anyone ever not having picked out their kid’s name before the birth. It is 100% what parents do. Maybe choose from two once you meet the baby, but never start from scratch after the birth!!!?!
Especially since this pregnancy was expected. Harry and Meghan both said they were ready for kids so it would only be natural for them to discuss baby/kid things before she was pregnant or just pregnant. Things like names, or potential sports/interests, wondering what color hair baby would have, etc.
*waves* me!
I left the hospital with the birth certificate stating “Baby Girl *last name* ”
This was back in the mid 60s. My parents thought I was going to be a boy. I was not. lol.
About five or six months into my pregnancy, we realized we should probably think about a name. Went to a baby name website, clicked on ‘Goddess’ names… Freyja was the first one we saw, and it clicked. Never looked any further. It was this picture that sold it:
https://folklorefun.files.wordpress.com/2018/07/freyja-with-chariot.jpeg?w=572
A Goddess in a chariot pulled by cats! Now I wonder if we should have looked around more, but it felt right for some reason. We all started calling the bump ‘Freyja’, and there was no going back.
I’m confused and don’t know much about titles: I thought Archie had the choice to reject a title when Charles becomes king? Why would a letter patent be needed? Would the letters patent basically say just because Charles is king doesn’t mean his grandchildren will automatically inherit the prince/princess title?
I think that parts very interesting – as it stands now, Archie becomes HRH Prince Archie when Charles becomes king (he doesn’t have to use it though, like Like lady Louise doesnt).
So discussing it with Charles and issuing new letters patent tells me they want it changed, so Archie would NOT be entitled to HRH Prince when Charles is king. And then presumably that would affect Louis’s children down the line as well.
I’m wondering why they would want to take that extra step. As you said, Archie could be HRH Prince Archie and just not use it. Are there some legal responsibilities that come with it? I also never quite understood why Edward and Sophie didn’t want their kids to be called the HRH princess/ prince that they were born as. I know people have said that the HRH princess designation has made things difficult for the York sisters, but frankly I think their parents have made things difficult more than anything else.
the HRH is a big deal for the older guard.
losing an HRH meant they may not have been invited to royal events, and when they were, their lack of the title affected things like who had precedence and where they sat.
(copied from another site)
I imagine that they give too much importance being “important”
Lack of title or HRH does not change the line of succession to the throne. Line of succession is what influences the Order of Precedence (ie protocol of who walks first, who bows to whom, born royals have status while married-ins do not, etc.)
Not be invited to royal events if they don’t have titles? See Zara and Peter Phillips repeatedly invited to public and private royal events. As are their non-titled children.
I’m also confused by the whole situation. The consensus seems to be they said they didn’t want him to have a title. But in the next breath, they talked to Charles and there is discussion about a formal decree. These things seem to be contradictory to each other, so I still don’t understand what went down, or what they were actually wanting for him….
Technically, Archie does have titles, they just aren’t used. he could be styled as a Duke’s son, and, by courtesy, take on one of Harry’s subsidiary titles, Earl of Dumbarton or Baron Kilkeel. At the least, he’s Lord Archie Mountbatton-Windsor. Kind of like how Edward’s children are styled.
According to the law as it currently stands, only the children of the eldest son of the Prince of Wales are royal princes and princesses. Since Harry is the younger son, his children aren’t automatically.
But the law also says that the children of the male children of the monarch are princes and princesses. When Charles becomes king, that will make Archie a prince, legally.
Originally it was only the eldest son of the eldest son of the Prince of Wales that was given a royal title (styled prince), but they changed that to all of the children when the changed the law to make girls and boys equal in the succession.
The letter patent under George V would have made George only an HRH and none of his siblings. And if Charlotte or a girl was the eldest, there would not have been an HRH until the Queen passed, as all grandchildren of the monarch through the male line automatically have an HRH.
The law of succession was something separate from this, but the Queen did issue a letters patent to add all of William’s kids to have an HRH in case the eldest was a girl.
There are two different titles here. HRH (His/Her Royal Highness) which is the style for those with the title Prince/Princesses. The other title derives from Harry’s dukedom which Archie will eventually inherit. The dukedom has two subsidiary titles, Earl of Dumbarton and Baron Kilkeel. Archie could be known as Earl of Dumbarton. For the time being however he is growing up as Archie.
Prince Edward’s children are in a similar position. When Edward married he was made Earl of Wessex and it was agreed that his children would be known by the titles applicable to children of an Earl rather than having HRH status and being Prince or Princess. His daughter therefore is Lady Louise and his son is Viscount Severn, or Lord Severn. However, they are HRH under the 1917 law and on reaching 18 they could decide to take HRH status. Under that law Archie could also assume HRH status and be Prince Archie as the grandchild of King Charles. Which would be a first for an American citizen.
This explains it https://royalcentral.co.uk/features/history-blogs/history-of-royal-titles-hrh-and-princeprincess-2064/
“George V …………….. restricted the right to the title of Prince/Princess in a special order in 1917, removing the right for his German relatives to bear the title. This was known as the 1917 Letters Patent and is one of the most quoted letters patent by royal commentators. The exact order of the letters patent exclusively reserved the right of the title of Prince/Princess and the style of Royal Highness to ‘all children of the sovereign, all male-line grandchildren of the sovereign (children born to sons of the Monarch) and the son of the son of the Prince Of Wales.’”
The Queen has added to this by giving all William’s children the title of Prince/Princess and the style HRH.
When Charles is King all his grandchildren will be HRH Prince/Princess unless he issues new letters patent. Parents can decide not to use these titles but once the child is 18 the choice is theirs although in practice they would need the approval of the monarch.
He is soooo cute and a Harry mini me.
omg so cute. The Sussexes are so greedy keeping all this cuteness to themselves!
Get you a baby that looks at you the way Archie looked at those tea cakes.
My ovaries are exploding I love that photo so much.
One thing I’ve never quite understood – why not “Archer”? Archie is great for a baby and kid, but a grown adult… should have the option to not have an “ie” at the end of their name, don’t you think? Archer Harrison Mountbatten – Windsor, known as Archie. Sigh.
That’s a great name! I have a name that can’t really be shortened, so have always loved longer names turned in to nicknames. Archer would’ve been a wonderful choice.
I’m sure people would have complained they were using some kind of Diana connection (Diana the huntress). Plus the adult cartoon series Archer – not a good association.
@ NOTA-STERLING!!!!!
While my initial reaction to Archie was “What?” it has grown on me over time. It sounds like the guy you can call at 3am to pick you up when your car breaks down in the middle of nowhere – and Harry has always sought to be that guy to his mates in the military and to wounded soldiers, their families, and underserved persons. It’s relatable. Everything they do leans towards relatable and if they wanted to be visibly “above” everyone, I think they would have chosen a far more formal name, but I think it signals their desire to work for everyone – not just those who can afford access and carry their purses on the right side of their body and exit cars correctly.
He looks like such an Archie! I didn’t know the sex of baby and she didn’t have a name until a week or so after she was born. We wanted to make sure it felt right before making it permanent. In my state you have a month until you need to decide so we didn’t rush it.
Tidbit from the book:. Family was notified about the birth before the world did, including Bad Dad. Doria texted him at Meghan’s request but Meghan didn’t want to know what was the response. But BP left Toxic Tom’s name off its announcement for family notified. Either the text didn’t happen (don’t believe that) or BP left the name off on purpose.
I love that picture of Archie, it makes me happy every time I see it. That and the one where Harry is holding him in Canada. He’s such an adorable baby and lucky too, his parents are doing their very best to protect him and give him the best life possible. It seems Harry is determined his son will not have the life he had.
I think that Harry wanted to break free to ensure that Meghan didn’t have the life his mother did.
He saw what the media did to his mother, leading to her untimely death, and leaving him without a mother. He doesn’t want that for Archie.
I rarely like to comment on H&M posts for this very reason. By commenting, I feel like I’m feeding the demand for more Harry & Meghan news, when all they want is to be left alone.
I kind of wish they had done Archer as the full name. An arrow slinger, straight and true toward it’s intended target….which could “be a true voice for change” which Meghan is fond of saying.
If they ever have a girl, I think Doriana as a mix of Diana and Doria would be pretty. Not sure Meghan ever wants to be pregnant ever, ever again, tho.
I was thinking Delia would be a good choice if they had a girl. Both Doria and Diana start with D and have five letters, and it fits well with Archie.
I had my child’s name picked out since I was a kid/teenager. If I ever had a boy I wanted to name him Frank, after my beloved grandfather. I wouldn’t think of another name. I loved that it was classic but not common anymore and the throw back to my Grampa. Before we got married my husband and I had the baby name conversation. He was cool with Frank, although we changed it a bit to Franklin to make it his own. My husband got to choose a girl name. He always loved the name Miranda ever since he read The Tempest in high school. So once I got pregnant we already had our names. It turned out we had a little Franklin. His name suits him so well.
“To not have a senior role in the royal family but have a title,” a senior aide close to the couple said at the time, “is just a burden.”
Now, I find that statement very interesting and curious …foreshadowing about the 12 month review?
Harry will always have the hereditary title of Duke of Sussex. Archie will eventually inherit this title, probably not before his 60s. Harry has agreed not to use his HRH status and Prince title. However there is nothing to stop anyone else referring to him as Prince Harry. The main concern is that HRH status should not be used for commercial purposes.
Diana lost HRH status on her divorce but was still officially Diana, Princess of Wales. HRH status cannot be officially removed except by a Letters Patent process which might affect other royals. The main purpose of the 1917 Letters Patent was to remove HRH status from German relatives.
The statement echoes what was said at the time Prince Edward’s daughter was born. His children were to be known by titles applicable to the children of an earl. At this time it had been decided (by Charles) that Andrew’s daughters would not have a senior role with official duties. It would have been better for them if their HRH status had been dropped and they had instead adopted the title ‘Lady’ as daughters of a duke. Andrew has never accepted this. The result has been to turn them into posturing pantomime characters with unrealistic ideas about their status and relevance.