I’ve been so absorbed with the Finding Freedom excerpts, I’ve barely had time to look at the press Omid Scobie has done to support the book (which is #1 in the UK and USA). I mentioned the other day that Finding Freedom: The Remix is going to be lit, but it’s no joke – Scobie has as much tea in interviews as he put in the book. It really makes me wonder if a second book isn’t coming, with all the details he and Carolyn Durand didn’t put into FF. Anyway, I just read his Glamour UK interview and there were some fascinating quotes.
On the palace aides refusing to help Meghan: “I think if the palace was able to speak out, on points and say; actually, she gets on fine with her staff, it would have gone a long way to help. Because, as we know, that’s how the palace works- it’s these little off-the-record briefings they give the press, those palace aides that we often see quoted in articles. For some reason that wasn’t done for them…. Meghan now lives in the shadow of that tabloid-created persona for her.”
Who did Harry blame for the hate campaign? “There were times in which Harry especially felt that there was a hate campaign against them, but not from within the family. He’s very good at knowing that distinct line between his family and the institution.”
The Queen & Charles still respect H&M: “The Queen had a great amount of respect and she found her very exciting to have in the fold. And the same again with Charles, who was really sort of enamoured by her dynamism. But I think that support wasn’t universal across all of the royal households.” The notable exception, of course, was the Cambridges. Omid believes that the true sticking point- from both family and “Firm”- was the erosion of the relationship between Harry and William.
On Meghan’s refusal to be a weaksauce doormat: “When a woman marries into the royal family, her wings are almost clipped. In Meghan’s refusal to do certain things- like show Archie the day he was born- and in sharing her feminist views- that made Kate look incredibly old fashioned. And I think there have been many times in which Megan’s progressiveness highlighted Kate’s almost sort of past-era persona that she has as the perfect Duchess of Cambridge. I think if Meghan had come in and was the subservient wife and did everything that she was supposed to, at all times and didn’t question anything, it may have been different. But Meghan just wasn’t ever going to fit that sort of cookie-cutter Duchess role.”
I think Omid hits the nail on the head with how Meghan’s presence, work ethic and personality simply highlighted Kate’s lack of presence, lack of work ethic and lack of personality. That’s it in a nutshell. Diana cosplay is not a personality. Being keen is not a work ethic. Being widely photographed isn’t the same as having that celebrity sparkle. But again, it always went deeper than that. I agree that the big show was between William and Harry. But FF makes it perfectly clear that Kate never wanted to help Meghan or welcome Meghan. Kate was jealous and petty from the word go.
Photos courtesy of Avalon Red, Backgrid, WENN.
Omid could have been more specific: what exactly did Meghan do that was so antagonistic and different from other royals, not Kate? Didn’t other royals also not present their baby on the first day? If he himself could not answer that, then call those courtiers and nasty RR out.
I think Omid still has to work with the RF, so he still has to maintain some sort of balance. Also, the double standards when it comes to Meg are soooo many and so vast, I can see how when he’s being interviewed and in the moment some good counter arguments may slip his mind. I think he’s conducted himself well in his promotional interviews even if there’s some points he’s missed out on. E.g. his BBC interview, when asked the ridiculous usual dumb question about H&M wanting privacy being used against them when they promote their work. But the way he’s confronted the racism is perfect.
But I do wonder the extent of damage done to his career by this book. He hasn’t tweeted anything about the work that any other member of the RF has been doing, but he does update it when H&M do work.
Yea well then he could talk about the unfair press coverage to exclude the courtiers and RF. For example the baby presenting thing. He could say DM article says this but they omitted that other royals did the same so it was not a tradition.
Well, it’s not as if it hards to make Top CEO look ‘old fashioned’ – she does it to herself.
it interesting to me that Scobie is making a point of saying that the problems weren’t with TQ and Chuck but with other families, specifically the Cambridges and Yorks. He clearly has tea but can’t really spill. Its also interesting that from what I’ve seen of reviews/excerpts of the books that William was initially welcoming of her but that soured – while Kate made NO effort from the get go and saw her as nothing but a rival. Makes you wonder what went on in the background.
I think they were jealous and threatened by Meghan because she was her own women. Smart, intelligent and charismatic. I also think they didn’t want Harry and Meghan to get married they would show them up work wise. Also, it was clear as day that KP was working with the British Tabloids and leaking stories. I put it down to snobbery, lack of trust and frail egos. William and Kate want the PR photos and hype but none of the work. The media knows they suck and that’s why they’re hanging on Harry and Meghan for dear life, despite the former living an ocean away.
Yes, this! I came here to post the same thing. It was SO obvious that the majority of leaks about Harry and Meghan came from the Kensington Palace staff, and that William and Cate did nothing to stop it. I can also see the Queen and Charles keeping out of it because it involved William’s household, with him being a future King.
What I don’t buy is that William was in favor of Harry and Meghan spliting into a full House of Sussex with their own, equal staff and communications office. There had to be a reason why the Duke and Duchess of Sussex ended up under Buckingham Palace rather than their offices; which prevented them from controlling their own narrative.
What I think bugged William and Cate the most was how succesful Harry and Meghan were on Royal tours around the world. And I know this is petty … but there is even a contrast between how well their babies acted on tour. Do you remember when William and Cate took ‘Big G’ (that’s Prince George to anyone who missed it, and how big George was when a baby) with them to Australia?
Prince George was obviously not a good traveler (not everybody is, and that’s a long plane ride) as he was fussy and ill-tempered, having tantrums and taking toys away from the other children on a public and video taped ‘play date.’ And don’t get me wrong, because I really thought ‘Big G’ was cute as heck during that tour and acting just like babies do. But contrast that with press pictures and video of smiling, happy baby Archie on tour with his parents in Africa.
What soured was the rock star welcome Meghan was getting from the public. In the U.K. and abroad. Meghan easily taking to duties and showing him and Kate up like it was nothing. Actually producing concrete results for her charities and initiatives. That triggered William’s petty jealous gene BIG TIME and the need to suppress her.
Meghan started attending royal functions and getting to work immediately after becoming engaged to Harry. She attended two events – one with the Queen – only days after her marriage.
Meghan was never work-shy like Kate and guarantee it caused bad blood with Kate who – pre-Meghan – had been derided as “lazy” by the British press.
Even in early 2016 there were articles commenting on how little Kate had done and what was spent on clothing, but suddenly once Meghan was discussed as a serious girlfriend, the narrative changed and St Kate the perfect English Rose arrived.
Before becoming Top CEO and the Perfect Duchess, she was Waity Katy and Duchess Dolittle.
Her nicknames were “Kate Little-done” and “Duchess of Dolittle.” This is an issue of her and William’s own making. There is nothing wrong with being shy and introverted (Diana was introverted too), or not being charismatic. She can’t control that. But she spent almost a decade as a duchess and did so very little. Sure she needed some time after her babies for some leave, but that doesn’t make up for the years of nothing. Had she gotten into a cause or two and really threw herself into them, behind the scenes and at events, done her homework, become an expert, and gained a lot of good will. When Meghan came along, sure she would have gotten attention, but Kate would have had established a reputation of her own.
And her utter laziness after university shows this is on her. Diana was a teenager of privilege, and still felt the need to do something with herself (and by the accounts of her former employers, was a dedicated worker who loved what she did). This one could barely show up a few days a week for a few months at her parents friend’s company. With an art degree, a job at a gallery or museum would have been a natural fit, and she would have had the connections to get a job in those highly-coveted fields.
I don’t see Kate as remotely shy. During the breakup she’d wear more “daring” clothing and was seen with other men at the clubs. She tipped of the press to show WIlliam what she was missing. And a demure woman would not pose in a see through dress.
If Kate had been serious about a career in the field of art history, she would not have left uni with only a BA. You can’t use just a BA for anything in this field (it is simply the entry to more studying). You need an MA and preferably a Ph.D. – especially with museum work. The field is not that big and there’s a LOT of competition.
Even with her supposed connections, she wouldn’t have had the qualifications for any serious work in the field. Maybe doing something at a private gallery but she didn’t have much a shot with the big museums with just a BA. Just because she had connections in the aristocracy bc of her royal boyfriend doesn’t mean that she did any kind of networking with museum professionals – or that she could get a museum job “just like that” because her royal boyfriend demanded it – maybe she could have done some low-level volunteer work but not a salaried position to do any kind of research or curating at a big public museum.
Kate was only ever serious in catching William as a husband. Everything else was just a means to achieve that goal. And the media crowing about her being the first bride with a university education really showed how low the bar was for her from the outset. She’s since proven to fumble her words in the only language she knows and didn’t seem to know basic things about her area of study, such as the status of Faberge eggs. She remains to this day a very shallow and unserious person.
Yes, you can tell Omid wants to say SO much more but is unable to. He had to take a lot out of the book due to legal reasons. I do wonder if we will ever get the full story. I feel like a lot of this is Kate and the Middletons being super jealous and petty. William did seem fine at first so I wonder what happened?
See that’s the thing. Even if he did not want to talk about the family drama, he could have said Meghan was not a docile doormat, like Anne. He could have said Meghan had a career before marriage, like Sophie. He could have said Meghan did not present Archie on the first day, like XX. Meghan also worked on feminist issues like Camilla. He did not even have to talk about Kate, just keep comparing Meghan to the other royal ladies. This makes the haters’ criticism of Meghan and Harry look petty and ridiculous. I wish the authors did something like this in the book. Then at least people who were indifferent to HM could have some empathy on how they were unfairly treated and bashed.
I wonder if part of why William went from welcoming to Big Mad once Meghan started doing public engagements with Harry (during their engagement and then after the wedding), was because Meghan was proving that there was actually no reason for caution in their relationship, she actually WAS perfect for the role, she was good at it, prepared, didn’t slip up, and mostly, the public LOVED and accepted her, even without her attempting to shut off her entire personality and play act as 1950s Housewife: Mega Conservative, Silent Edition. William had, to the detriment of his entire relationship with Harry, tried to warn Harry to slow down and really think about “this girl,” and now his advice was being proven to be wrong and Harry was proven right about Meghan and his relationship with her. If you’re used to your brother always screwing up and having things blow up in his face so you can continue to have a reason to “parent him” (the book says William thought of himself as a “parent” to Harry), then it would sting extra hard to see that you were actually wrong about the biggest decision your brother ever made in his life and your advice was invalid. And Kate was watching Meghan breeze through engagements and be accepted for who she was, wearing ripped jeans and touching her fiancée and all, while Kate had forced herself into some kind of bizarre, “Perfect Pre-War Wife, Mother, and Duchess” cosplay situation where she was continually stifling herself and making herself as small and quiet as possible because she thought that’s what was necessary to be accepted. And now, it’s not? Then why has she been living her life as this miserable persona!?
I’m sure William was waiting for the Harry-Meghan relationship to blow up when Meghan proved herself “unfit,” so that Harry would come back to Will and apologize and resume his relationship with the Cambridges as their sidekick, but that didn’t happen. And of course Will and Kate aren’t going to be the ones to apologize for being wrong and try to fix the relationship. Oh no, Harry should come groveling to them and insist that he needs them and misses them and he overreacted. But instead Harry was finding out that his likes his life like this with Meghan. He had a new best friend, one who actually cared about him as a person and didn’t give him patronizing advice and try to parent him. So his top priority wasn’t apologizing and making nice with Will, and William wasn’t going to reach out first, so the relationship continued to sour and Will and Kate continued to fester in their indignation that maybe they were wrong about Meghan. Rather than admit they were wrong though, they were going to try to PROVE that they were right about Meghan, and they started the smear campaign.
@AmyToo It was the balcony moment. THAT was the moment. That’s when it all changed. H&M took that balcony like royalty and PWT couldn’t handle it. He’s been in meltdown ever since.
Kate took on that persona because William is a control freak with anger issues. I think William made it very clear that he didn’t want a partner who was like his mother after the tumult of his childhood, and Kate has conducted herself accordingly.
It absolutely was the balcony moment that started everything.
I agree. Within days of the balcony moment showing just how popular they were, the tiara gate story showed up and then crygate not far behind.
This was a read! I think the whole “parentification of William” thing and the part about him wanting Meghan to be terrible at the job of being a duchess just to be proven right is ringing all the bells. I think those were huge motivating factors in the falling out/freezing out of H&M, and it may have been largely subconscious and something that W is unable to face with any clarity about his schemas. Frankly he won’t be able to recognize any of the ways the traumas of his life have impacted his thinking and behaviors without some form of longterm professional help. I know “mental health” is one of his causes, but I don’t think he has a good relationship with a therapist at this point, and he needs one. We all do, but he really does.
@AmyToo this is one of the most insightful analyses of Will’s mentality that I’ve read. His Royal Sourpuss was just waiting around to say “I told you so,” and he never got the chance. Because Harry was right, and Meghan was perfect for him and perfect for the job. When Meghan started appearing in public, Will and Kate of course were watching to see the reaction of the crowds and how Meghan did. As both Royal Sourpusses are mighty jealous, I can’t imagine they were happy seeing Meghan take the spotlight so naturally. When Meghan herself wouldn’t provide the grist for the rumor mill, Will & Kate (and probably Carole) did it on their own. It probably started out to “take M&H down a notch” but then they couldn’t stop. Next thing you know, Harry & Megs were gone. I still hope the tabs throw KP under the bus in the upcoming trial.
@Amy Too: Wow that was excellent! I wouldn’t be surprised if this was close to the truth (if not the truth)
I feel it was more the Australia, NZ and South Pacific trip that was when everything turned. They were so popular here in Aus during that trip – even the conservative press were fawning after them (remember Harry getting his beard patted and having a cuddle with that gorgeous little boy? And Meghan meeting the Aboriginal girls at the school in Dubbo and farming families struggling with years long drought?)
Meghan passed that test with flying colours except for one or two minor missteps (IIRC pretty much just wardrobe related??). The headlines, public support and huge numbers turning out to see them were undeniable… I remember thinking very clearly at the time, how quickly and viciously the tide turned after that trip.
KM does not just look “old-fashioned,” she IS old-fashioned. There is nothing in her persona or trajectory that says, “modern woman.” She learned these behaviors at home and has not taken any opportunity to enrich her intellect on women’s issues (or anything for that matter!). In my opinion, Kate Middleton reinforces 19th century gender norms that tend to infantilize woman and she’s more than content in her bougie comfort.
Hey remember when people tried to excuse Kate for not wearing black because supporting sexual assault victims is somehow political? Yeah that’s our Kate. She doesn’t give a fuck about any woman but herself. She is the opposite of a feminist and in fact promotes a dangerous anti woman image that bizarrely so many women don’t seem to grasp. Only a few women actually want to be reduced to a womb and pretty mannequin and the British media tries to sell her as something beyond the regressive Handmaid’s Tale character that she truly is.
Züri & Nic919, great posts!
Which is so weird because say what you will about Carole – she‘s a successful business woman herself! Why raise her daughters so conservatively?? Maybe it’s the British class system obsession that I just can’t fathom.
NIC919 that BAFTAs dress moment was what soured me on Kate for good. It was literally the least she could do and she wouldn’t do it.
@Maevo: Because in Carole’s mind, that was how her daughters were going to land an aristo/future King.
@Nic919 and @maevo: True! Thanks for adding to the message 🙂
This part of the comment is just so striking(ly true): “She is the opposite of a feminist and in fact promotes a dangerous anti woman image that bizarrely so many women don’t seem to grasp. Only a few women actually want to be reduced to a womb and pretty mannequin…”
The anti-woman aspect of the Middleton sisters is key: her entire being upholds tropes of woman as superficial and childlike, which are in turn reinforced by the media.
The only old fashioned thing about her, besides frumpy dresses, is being a social climber looking to marry up.
Yup, Kate makes herself look old-fashioned without any help. Her style is a case in point. One can be retro in a pretty way but she is basically dressing “old”.
The makeup style is extremely old too. It’s not at all like the great makeup nowadays, like Meghan wears, that makes you look very natural, clean, “barely there” style.
Kate’s wearing this thick pancake and heavy eye shadow like a 50-year-old in the 1980s.
To be fair, some people are just older before their time. I’ve known many a person who was middle aged just waiting to happen… in terms of her personal style atleast, I wonder if that’s something that’s just too hard to shake.
Even if you have the best personal dressers, stylists and designers at your beck and call, they can lead a horse to water…
Hey, atleast gf will be fashion forward in her 60’s 🙂
Exactly! Top CEO shares clothes with her mother. And her mother looks more modern in them. She makes every dress look fussy grandma from the 70’s
Came here to say Duchess Kate makes Duchess Kate look old fashioned.
And she still does tbh. No amount of embiggening and new wardrobe is going to make Kate look and seem like a cool, hip, youthful, fashionable, breath of fresh air that has passions, flaws and all type of person. And it’s clear the media have been trying to make her into a Meghan carbon copy. When I saw that paparazzi photo of Kate with the blue outfit after Harry and Meghan’s return to England. That let me know that either the media put her up it or she’s a really competitive and threatened woman who is in a one sided competition with Meghan.
The was an article saying she and Pippa competed over period pain – I don’t think she needs help being competitive. Just as long as it’s easy or fun/sporty!
Modern Amish and Prince Pursed Lips will always be outshone by M&H.
The pap the next day was so pathetic. I actually felt somewhat bad for her.
Lol FF really is good at providing cover for the royal family. We are meant to believe that royals were questioning her intentions& calling her a degree wife but their hands were completely clean in the smear campaign?
Also annoys me this tabloid style focus on comparing Kate and Meghan when I don’t think their (lack of) relationship was the driving force with the exit. I’m more interested in Meghan and William’s dynamic or how press were tearing Meghan down to uplift Kate& agenda behind that.
Exactly. Read between the lines in FF and you can tell something major went down between William and Harry. What the heck happened? And the York’s fingerprints are in this as well as the courtiers. The Sussexes were supposed to sit back and stay quiet while being offered up as the sacrificial lambs to the tabloids to provide cover for RF crap like Andy’s Pedo behavior, shady finance deals, etc.
One U.K. journalist said on tv that if the public knew what really happened behind the scenes we would feel really sympathetic towards Harry and Meghan, so it’s bad. But we won’t know because of legal reasons. I wonder if it will come out after the Queen dies?
I’ve been thinking about what could upset Harry so much, I know we think maybe William said something extremely racist.
It’s pure speculation but I wonder if he said something more personally to just Harry. Like their mom wanted William to look after Harry because he wasn’t bright (even though he is oc) or Harry would have been better off if James Hewitt was his dad because he was disgracing Charles or something.
And that was like the final straw.
Who knows what low blows William could have dealt Harry. Something he said might have really crossed the line wrt Harry and Meghan that Harry may not have tolerated. Possibly an unforgivable racist remark, l conjectured that myself in another post. Whatever was said could have been a real eye-opener for Harry in realizing that neither he nor his family could stay in such a vile and poisonous atmosphere.
The idea of Hewitt being “dad” is appalling to me. He rushed to Pasternack so she could write a tell all about his relationship with Diana. He wanted people to pay him off for Diana’s letters but there were no takers. Diana and Charles wanted a second child. Diana did not move on to Hewitt until Harry was two.
I see that bloggers are now praising Inskip for his “insights” and “advice” to Harry. I think that they might have also said she’s not wife material but living together is better. I think william was very snide and condescending. William is only a little over two years than Harry it’s not like he was a teen when Harry was born.
Yes @Abritguest putting this type of analysis in the book just plays to the allusion of competition between the ladies and the couples. Meghan wanted to carve her own role, not compete with Kate. Kate and William are FFQC and FFK, nothing will change that except the obvious. Harry and Meghan know their place, know their hierarchy, there is no indication that they were interested in a popularity contest. The stupid press is just drawn to them!
Re William and Meghan:
My own personal theory is that as a certain part of William’s anatomy got harder and harder for Meghan, (for her vibrant personality, her achievements and most especially for the way she made Harry look and feel), so did his heart. He has such an entrenched feeling of entitlement that he felt cheated by what she was bringing to the table, that he couldn’t have. Unfortunately for him and fortunately for Harry, he can’t just snatch a human beings affections the way he snatched Harry’s sapphire for himself, hence the smear campaign, Rose-bush and open season on the Sussexes.
“If I can’t have you my love, I will destroy you.”
I kind of feel like William would never want someone who challenged him, or he could learn from. That would make him feel arrogant and he has a massive, unearned ego.
On one hand I can see this because of the women he pursued (Jecca especially comes to mind) were much more confident and have something going for themselves but on the other hand, I don’t think he’d be able to handle that type of woman. That type of woman would tell him about himself and wouldn’t put up with his shit.
William would go for a more assertive women as mistress, and probably told Harry a version of that implying that’s what he should do with Meghan and that’s probably what caused the rift.
There’s a certain type of man who, if he’s attracted to a woman but knows he can’t have her, will turn on her. It happened to me in my younger years and I couldn’t believe that someone who had, for years, professed his attraction to me then turned on me really badly (including me off for money he owed me for doing a project for him) would do something like that. I think William’s antipathy is partially rooted in jealousy of how Harry managed to find himself a wonderful, gorgeous, smart, charismatic wife while he’s stuck with a dull, boring mannequin.
@Bella DuPont Ding, ding, ding, we have a winner.
I think that William couldn’t stand the idea that his brother, ‘the spare’, got to share his life AND his bed with an intelligent, exciting, beautiful woman like Meghan and all he had waiting for him at home was Kate.
I could see that. Harry the spare got a cover girl, Hollywood star wife. King William got his very plain college stalker.
I could see this. William will pursue a dynamic, assertive woman for a mistress as Nic said, but he could never marry a woman like that because she may outshine him. So he sees his brother happy with this kind of partnership and can’t handle it. And that makes him work to undermine and drive them away.
I could see this close to being on target. There have been times in those early days where I’ve seen Will look at Meghan inappropriately. At first I thought I was simply imagining things, but then I saw other people mention seeing the same thing.
@Bella DuPont, I think this hits at the core part of William’s many many contradictions. He wants Kate, but he also wants to f-ck around. He wants the stability of a good family life, which he felt he was denied while growing up, but he also wants to pursue greener pastures as he sees fit. He wants someone sturdy, grounded, and dependable, but he also wants someone like Rose Hanbury, who is the same sort of fun as someone like Jecca Craig, Isabella Calthorpe, etc.
He wants glamour and predictability at the same time. He wants Harry to go away, but also not go away too far so that he can still pick up some of the workload that William doesn’t want to be burdened with. He wants to cosplay as a middle-class awkward suburban dad of 3, but also strops around like a mini-tyrant. He wants to be seen as “just like us”, but god forbid you treat him like an ordinary person.
I have no doubt it was the same way with Meghan. One part of him absolutely likes Meghan, and sees fully that she’s good for his brother, and has made Harry extremely happy. Another part of him is inexorably jealous of Meghan. Because she’s dividing Harry’s love and attention, diverting the country’s love and attention, away from himself. He wants Harry to be happy, but he also wants Harry to stay dependent on William. He likes and admires Meghan, is intrigued by her, by how different she is from every woman he’s met before, but he also hates her. Either way, he needs to read some Hegel ASAP and figure out how to reconcile these contradictions.
Ebony Rising, so true. There is one moment at the RAF 100 event that struck me. All four are walking out of the church. Kate is in front with her resting bitch face. William is staring at Meghan’s chest while licking his lips, and Meghan looks afraid. Harry standing behind them with an incredibly angry expression on his face. It was just a moment in the day of events, but the photo evidence is out there.
I’m wondering if William and Kate will do some sort of sit down, long form TV interview to try to redirect some of this attention. If I remember correctly, Diana used to plan her interviews to pull attention from Charles and we all know how Kate likes to play Diana.
Oh PLEASE have them do one! It would be an even bigger car wreck than Pedo Andy.
An interview with the Cambridges wouldn’t go the same way as the one with Andrew.
Emily Maitlis was fairly incisive with her questioning.
Any UK media interview with Will & Kate would be a fawning, grovelling PR exercise. The UK establishment’s mission is to present them as pure, patriotic and essential to the nation.
I don’t think Kate is smart enough to do a long form interview, even with William.
I think there goal’s are totally different
Kate couldn’t even manage the engagement interview, they had to do several takes just to get it right.
Definitely not live, maybe prerecorded and heavily edited.
All she can do is wave her hands and talk in the posh accent talking about the children this the children that. William can complain about how ‘noisy’ they are.
“Meghan now lives in the shadow of that tabloid-created persona for her.”…..and this is what is so terrible about what has happened to Meghan,apart from the rational few who see her treatment for other than what it was. She is deemed as a social climbing,attention seeking,controling woman. Other than this site everywhere else i read 90% of the commentaters believe this narative.
I don’t think so at all. Eventually of all those nonsense stories will be a distant memory because 5 years down the line, who will really care? She’s still getting deals and speeches. She’s still a success in many ways and she’s still respected by her patronage’s, supporters etc. The Cookbook, Vogue issue and Smartworks collection all sold out. There were many journalists when it was revealed about her interviewing the CEO of the 19th. Literal journalists were excited about this. That narrative is only working for racists and detractors who were never going to like her. That’s why they keep trying to smear her because it hasn’t stopped her rise. It’s an annoyance but that’s all it is and many see if for what it is.
Thank you, Brit. These small, but noisy groups of people, always proclaim their way of thinking as keeping the world on it’s axis.
This is not true…..there is a very loud minority of people who don’t like her; that’s clear and a fact!
All of Meghan’s projects have been widely successful! who do you think is buying all of that? Bots don’t have money; haters’ only currency is hate
So there are a huge group of people who don’t follow/read/pay attention to DM type trash and who are are rational. As Meghan says, it is noise!
What the smear has done is to make Meghan Markle even more famous than she would have been, had they left her alone…..that’s the stupidity of it all and the weird thing is they continue.
That’s the thing so many people find really difficult to understand; that the British media are absolute experts at creating and enforcing a narrative until it eventually takes root, almost by osmosis.
Great example is Lewis Hamilton, legendary F1 British driver. The BM has a long standing, racist objective of portraying him as deeply unpopular and widely hated, despite the fact that he is one of the UK’s most successful ever sportsmen in history.
When you watch one of the British based races in Silverstone, the reaction of the crowd to Lewis is insane, and completely unmatched by any other drivers at their home races. Flags everywhere, people camping overnight, carrying Hamilton’s ‘no 44’ flags, caps, wild reaction to his winning etc. Yet, like clockwork, every quarter or so, will come a slew of articles in the British press, asking why Hamilton is so “Hated” by formula 1 fans.
It’s the same with Meghan. She’s hated by a small but very vocal minority, backed by the British press and an army of bots. But the BM are invested in maintaining their illusion until one day, it becomes reality. (They hope).
“What the smear has done is to make Meghan Markle even more famous than she would have been, had they left her alone…..that’s the stupidity of it all and the weird thing is they continue.”
@VS – Absolutely! As the new game in town, Meghan was always going to attract attention, at least at first, regardless of what else she brought to the table. By contrast, Kate had been a fixture in the family one way or another for 20 years, nothing new there. We’ll never know if or how much interest regarding Meghan might have leveled off in the following years, once TQ passed, Charles became king, Will and Kate became Prince and Princess of Wales, and, in particular, their children became old enough to be interesting on their own.
But via the smear campaign, the powers that be ensured that multiple news outlets worldwide had multiple articles about Meghan day after day after day. She was always in the spotlight one way or another. As the saying goes, they created what they feared…
There’s a huge difference between what’s happening in the virtual world and the real world. Try as the tabloids may they have not been able to completely shape her real world reputation because she has a work ethic, a record of success, she’s charismatic and articulate etc etc. all their noise seems to be elevating her “celebrity” status
I think that is just very compartmentalized commentariats.
In the world real it’s pretty logically obvious to most people a social climber wouldn’t have married him then relatively quickly give up the entire royal life and spotlight. That would have been a social climbers goal to keep.
The internet echo chamber is a real thing. It sometimes gives us a skewed view of actual opinion.
He told no lies…
BUT
Interesting to note the only shade Omid is throwing is at Kate. He could very well use amore vague tone, like saying that Meghan made Kate look a certain way- but no, he just say, and I agree, that Meghan highlighted the cracks in Kate´s already known persona.
But….again…why mention Kate in particular, while openly giving passes to TQ and Charles, and downplaying William in an interview that will be widely read, when the people reading the book is saying that Late makes just a couple of appearances, and the book is more focused on the breaking up of Harry and William?
In.te.res.ting.
Maybe it is just Omid trying to sell the book. He knows people are – for some reason, very interested in ” catfights”. But maybe, he knows Kate is a button he can press?
PS: After the birth of my daughters, we decided it made ecnomocal sense for me to stay at home until they both entered school. So, yes I am a stay at home mom. and I know many others. Kate and Will want to project this middle class persona, but there is nothing middle class about a stay at home mom with loads of help. and I disagree Kate was never interested in pursuing a career. She did pursue a career: William´s Consort. and what is more_ she got the job. But she just wants to do this full time job part time- and therein lies the problem.
Many reporters have been dropping hints for months that members of the family had it out for them. Tom Bradby, Richard Palmer, Dan Wooton, Emily Andrews, Tim Shipman etc. They all know the truth and if William and Kate think this will stay secret for long especially as the Sussexes grow further and further away and make a living in America, those same people they jumped in bed with Will turn on them.
Lol already they are setting up the narrative that Kate is the bitch. When time comes the tides will turn and Kate will be blame for their smear campaign. William carefully set up Kate to take the fall. From the book we learn that queen and Charles are cool with them and William too initially but Kate is not. If I were Kate I will watch my back. Giving birth to heir doesnt guarantee the position.
They are definitely teeing up Kate to be the fall guy if more negative stuff comes out about Kensington Palace and the Cambridges. And they wouldn’t even have to make stuff up. I have no doubt she and her Mom have done plenty of shady shit independently of KP and Will.
Not that Will is guilt free, he’s also guilty as fuck but it would be SO easy to blame everything on Kate.
The Tatler article start that – you know the one Kate knew about then denied it.
All this shows is that Kate and Carole don’t have the currency to keep the tabloids in the pocket and that they are losing influence over William. There was a time the tabs would not dare say anything bad about the Mids and Kate as William would go after them but now…..
The Tatler article was Kate’s Newsnight Interview.
Microsoft, you are singing my song. I have been saying for a while that William has this all set up nice and neat to save himself if things ever truly go south for them as a couple. The Middletons are nowhere near as clever as they think when it comes to these media games.
@Eating popcorn, what an apt comparison. There’s no doubt that at the very least, Kate and Carole were involved in that story (I’m still mixed on how much William knew or was involved). Whenever they sanction PR pieces, there’s always a few lines about how much William depends on and needs Kate. I think they gave the green light for the Tatler story, thinking that it would be another puff piece. That was probably the biggest PR misstep she and Carole made in quite a long time.
I feel mixed about the level of William’s knowledge and involvement because he was not portrayed in a flattering light. But on the other hand, the Tatler article does look like a convenient foundation for setting up Kate for a take-down. Ever since that article, things have looked rather odd with the press narrative around her.
Exactly!! Kate and the Midds better watch their backs. Remember all the rumors about Charles and Diana that people scoffed at. Well, we know a lot of it was true. If Willy decides HE wants a more charismatic partner,then all that 20 plus years of work would be in vain.
Agree 100% with this. I mentioned on a another post that it’s very disconcerting that Kate is mentioned so much in the book as a negative foil to Meghan, while the people behind the smear campaigns (Charles’s staff, Kensington staff, William!!!) get a major pass. Even in his interviews, Omid still talks so much about Kate. It’s really gross. William and the courtiers should be in the hot seat here, not Kate. Not really a fan of Omid for this, tbh.
Yep, I am scratching my head here. Maybe he is saying it because people are asking about Kate and he wants it to sell?
But my gut feeling is that they all know that, if they need someone to go down, it would be Kate- and that Omid is fine playing by these unwritten rules.
They should all be in the hot seat. Kate is not innocent.
I agree- the authors are talking about sexism etc Meghan faced but playing to the people who like cat fights and focusing on the meghan v Kate thing when that’s not what drove the exit. I guess it may help with sales though and they aren’t going to ruin their bag and call out the blood royals.
We can’t also forget Kate has been the single biggest beneficiary of the smear campaign against Meghan. In fact, a lot of the effort to generate hate against Meghan relied on comparisons to Kate that starkly boosted the latter up at the expense of the former. BTS she may not have been a driving force, but it Omid’s goal is to debunk misleading narratives, there we’re few more harmful than the idea that Meghan was the antithesis to Kate, the perfect English wife, mother, and future Queen.
ABritGuest – exactly! This “catfight” was not the cause, but the authors focus on it so much.
They focus on Kate because she’s expendable. If a fall guy is needed, they’re not going to make it William (a blood prince), are they? So they make Kate the villain because the married-ins of the family are thrown to the wolves when needed. We saw it with Diana and we saw it with Fergie (although she dug her own grave, the media made Fergie’s embarrassments out to be “insulting” and ruining the “reputation” of the family whereas Andrew’s mistakes were just “oh it’s Andrew being Andrew!” – until the Epstein stuff came out)
That being said her hands aren’t completely clean either and for a long time on this site, a lot of posters (including myself) said that she wasn’t an active participant in anything but just went along with it because of William. Not many people really started pointing the finger at Kate until the FlyBe stunt (and people still let her off the hook by saying she just does what William tells her to do) but it was after the CW day that people’s fingers stayed firmly pointed at Kate.
firstly Kate does deserve to get dragged, she benefited the most from the smear campaign. But Kate is the gateway to the rest of them going down too. She will be the fall guy for the smear campaign against Meghan, but one thing we all know about Kate is she doesn’t take shit lying down. If Willie starts to pass the blame on to her, she is going to pass the blame right back. Her and ma Middleton will have their mouth pieces on speed dial and before you know it, willies will get dragged too. We just have to sit back and let it all play out.
@February-Pisces Is that..true? I’ve always thought that the Middletons are only formidable because of their proximity to power (William) and not because they themselves have any to speak of. They may try to play games, but if there’s a rift with William, what reporter on earth would take their side and risk retribution from the future king? Kate is no Diana, she doesn’t have the love of the public behind her. It will be different when George is a little older, and can choose to protect his mother, but he is a good 10-15 years away from that.
@tcbc Kate and Ma midds do have their own mouth piece. I would say Katie Nichols and camilla T are the ones Kate runs to, whilst Willie has the likes of desperate dan wootton and Richard kay. Collectively all the Cambridge’s mouth pieces have been on the same team against harry and Meghan, but once Willie and Kate start to turn on each other, so will their mouth pieces. Kate doesn’t have the same good will and popularity of Diana, but if she see that Willie has been throwing her under the bus, she will fight back. Even if you look at that infamous Tatler article and all the things said about Willie, that came from them, they just weren’t expecting it to be said with a massive eye roll.
The rules are and have always been the same: attack and blame non blood royals for everything and the blood royals would sit pretty, smile and say absolutely nothing while their spouses were taking the fall. Diana and Meghan were subjected to the same. Prince Margaret and princess Ann’s splices too. The outlier is prince Harry who was never happy with them attacking his wife while they never said nothing about him. Omid and everyone else is abiding by same unwritten rules. At the end of the day, they still have families and are still British citizens. They want themselves and their families to stay safe.
The Midds also have Tanna. And the two past editors of the Fail on Sunday, who were their paid PR hacks (ahem, ‘media advisors’) for nearly 20 years.
It says to me (and I said this below) that he may dance around the issue in the book, but he knows that Kate was a bigger issue than the book lets on. I don’t think Omid is dropping these kinds of quotes because he is setting Kate up to take the fall. I think he is dropping these kinds of quotes because they’re true – Meghan really destroyed every excuse that had been offered for Kate. “cant work – pregnant and raising kids” – meanwhile Meghan guest-edited Vogue and designed the Smart Set. “cant work – need time to figure out patronages.” Meanwhile Meghan announced her patronages promptly and started working with them. “cant work, need time to figure out the role” – Meghan organized the Together cookbook, starting before she was even married. “cant wear pants – royal duchess” – Meghan wore dress pants and looked great.
etc, etc. People don’t directly compare Sophie and Kate because of the age difference, but if they did, it would be the same, where Kate falls short. And if people think that the Cambridges/Middletons weren’t ticked over that, well I have a bridge to sell you.
The main fallout was between the brothers. but Kate is being specifically mentioned because she played a role too.
Let’s not forget her actual bitchface at the commonwealth service. Kate is a not a victim of a sexist narrative here because she acted poorly herself toward Meghan more than once. No one is saying that she was the ringleader, but she gleefully participated in the attacks and benefitted from the sexism being used against Meghan. Kate is not a feminist. She’s the Phyllis Schlafly who enjoys that the establishment praises and protects her.
Of course she played a role. But I read the book and William and the courtiers are glossed over so many times it becomes obvious that the authors are trying to stay on their good side. Kate? She’s all over the place, mentioned negatively several times. It’s sad.
I haven’t finished the book yet (about 80 pages to go) but so far I have only seen Kate mentioned in the few excerpts we’ve discussed here – she doesn’t look great, but Omid is also very careful about how she is presented. So careful that it makes me think he had a lot more to say and couldn’t.
Becks, I didn’t think the book mentioned Kate that much either. The problem for her is that the few times she was mentioned she didn’t look great as you say, which is in contrast to how William was portrayed. It reads like William made some effort at first, but Kate couldn’t even be bothered to try.
We will have to agree to disagree because the book mentioned Kate often, much more than William, and more instances of negativity as well.
@ Becks1
That is a nice take- definitely possible.
However, I think Kate would always be the winner of the smear campaign because the tabloids go to method of destruction is coming for the women- and since there was a duchess there already, it is easier to do this by comparing one to the other.
This is not to say the Middletons did not have any hand on this. They had. Kate is no innocent. But, from the excepts, William comes out not as bad, which was a surprise. They leave ample place for interpretation there- you either buy onto William as concerned big bro, or you dont.
Maybe, as often, is a mixture of both: Kate and her family saw an opportunity to embiggen themselved at Meghan´s expense since William was doing this himself AND there is a tacit understandinhg between RF and press that, if someone needs to be painted in a bad light from their end, then this person must be Kate.
Yeah, I believe Omid has the goods on a whole bunch of stuff about Kate and that’s why he’s talking about her this way. Could be that Kate and Carol were the main instigators in the first Megan smears and everyone just kinda followed along.
Just to add to my own comment – its clear from the book that the smears seemed to originate from Kensington Palace. The first few hit pieces (that weren’t just about her father or whatever, the ones that were more specific) were about staff happenings and Meghan’s work behavior. At the time I don’t think it was so clear, but looking back, it seems so obvious that the GSC originated in Kensington Palace. And if its clear to us, then it was clear to H&M as well. I don’t think KP aides would have leaked some of the stories they were leaking without the blessing of the higher-ups, like the Cambridges.
Don’t forget the bizarre Middleton PR antics during this time. Pushing James forward for sympathy, while covering up the Nazi party supply stories. The allegations of Pippa’s FIL raping his underage niece. Those stories disappeared in the anti-Meghan rush. And Carole two weird interviews, after years of silence.
We have already said many times, cambridge doesnt have millenials support. All the poll shows that’s Sussex have millenials and cambridge have baby boomer. Baby boomer wont live forever. So the poll is moot. Also people lost faith in poll because in usa it says Hillary will win and in uk labor will win. Neither of the things happen. The stan and rr can gloat whatever they want with the poll. Millenials especially woman support Meghan because they know the struggle to survive in men’s world even when the woman is white. Kate represents the opposite of those hard working woman and she will have tough time ahead. Also those stan gloating over princess wales title for Kate, lol you have to remember that after queen passed I dont know how much monarchy will survive . Because coronavirus there wont be gathering in foreseeable future. Even if they found vaccines, Brexit uk is heading towards disaster and there no wont glamours coronation for both king and wales party. Karma is a bitch.
“Baby boomer wont live forever.” This particular baby boomer is 59, and her baby boomer sister is 55. We will be around for a while, sorry.
55 is Gen X …
Okay, thank you. I didn’t know that. My sis is new. She found out we existed about 3 months before she contacted me in late June. It’s exciting, but thanks to covid, we’ve agreed we can’t meet yet. She’s two provinces over.
I said before the Sussex’s announces they were leaving, that if they left they would take millennials, liberals, minorities, and LGBT community with them. They basically have the young, cool, popular vote, whereas Willie and Kate have 60+, old grandmas, right wing assholes, and racists. Plus those basic looking middle age women who hate Meghan for being hot, charismatic and intelligent. Not exactly they fanbase that anyone wants.
I think that two of you need to make some older friends- then you might not be so dismissive of people based on their age. Many of our posters here have mentioned being that age and older, and what you wrote is insulting to them and ageist.
Thank you, Jane. I’m in my 60s and don’t feel I’m ready to hit the exit door just yet. And my age doesn’t automatically make me a fan of WK which I’m not.
Thank you Jane. I’m 56 and my hip professional 25 year old gal friend keeps telling me she forgets how old I am. She adopted me bc she thinks I’m cool, stylish and have perspective on things. I tell her I’m not smarter (I hated when older people used to say that to me) but I’ve been on the planet longer so that gives me insight she can access at any time. Plus fashion counseling. Since I’ve seen trends come and go and am a fan of fashion history.
Old people: a young persons secret power advisor.
I used to ask my 90 year old fit neighbor about his rocking times when he did business in Havana in the 1950s. Nightclubs and the glitterati. And he loved to say “I hate old people” what he meant was the attitude, not the age.
Harry and Meghan for being contemporary, involved and making a difference.
H&M for the win.
No, Kate makes herself look old-fashioned – little housewife on the Kensington prairie, a chutney-making bore who wears grandma curtains and moulded herself into a husband-pleasing silent doormat.
Yes Meg showed her up for the lazy petty little girl she is, but old-fashioned? Kate has always represented that.
Nail on head Kaiser, Kate has zero “personality” beyond unhinged aping of Diana’s clothes and poses, and the occasionally slightly insane laugh at inappropriate moments.
Kate makes herself look old fashioned but I think Meghan showed the world that there was another way. That a royal duchess didn’t have to be old fashioned. Which in turn made people question why Kate was choosing to be so old fashioned.
The Cambridge’s problem is that they do absolutely nothing that will make the British people think they should sit on thrones and Will get annointed by God. They are merely two shallow people who don’t work much and hide the way they really live – extremely privileged and out of touch.
In 30 years maximum, Will will own Balmoral and Sandringham and Highgrove, all the bling, the art, and much more. Anybody think he can manage that, much less being head of state?
At this point the reason why the British public supports William and Kate is because they toe the line, have not been involved in any real scandal and have produced heirs. These are their only qualifications for the job of future King and Queen of England. The fact that they are boring, have no personality, work ethic and try really hard to give the image of a perfect family is exactly what the public wants. They want a figurehead and figureheads are what they will get.
What I can’t understand is, William and Kate are going to be Prince and Princess of Wales and maybe King and Queen Consort so why couldn’t they just let Harry and Meghan do what they wanted? Harry and Meghan’s popularity would have faded over time so why William and Kate couldn’t be more mature and smart about the whole situation?
Cambriges role in the future is not guaranteed for 100%. Nobody knows what will happen and only today is matter. That’s why cambriges freaked out about the Sussex and also they made a grave mistake for giving Sussex freedom. Now harry shows he can and will survive without the firm ,title or money from uk. The firm short sighted towards future and dighed their own grave.
I think they will definitely be Prince and Princess of Wales. The republican movement in the UK is extremely weak and is lead by somebody who has no discipline. Furthermore as long as the boomers are alive, the monarchy will remain. But I agree with you that the royal family was short-sighted regarding Harry and Meghan.
Entitlement & insecurity are a toxic combination. Will wishes to have his resident happy go lucky punching bag who he could control while Kate’s whole identity & value centres on William & her family. Outside of this, she has few hobbies, projects, interests. Once Meghan came onto the scene, Harry became empowered by this relationship. He saw strength in this. He was no longer their public schmo. So when this was visible on the world stage, Will & Kate reacted. Miserably. Will will always be protected. Kate… not so much. Few can relate to her since we as women do not center our world around a man/ partner. I had hopes for her in 2011-2012, but it died when after the Canada tour, she did a few charities but never truly got the ball rolling. I believe this was Will’s doing. As long as she was on mat leave, she was excused. What’s her excuse (pre-COVID) now?
Because being King and Queen (or at least in the future) isn’t enough. They want to be popular and loved. If they had just kept quiet for a few more years, then they would get the popularity they want. They would be Prince and Princess of Wales and all eyes would be on them and Charles to see how they transition from the Queen’s death. Plus the Cambridge kids would be growing up so they would take up the tabloid front pages instead of the Sussexes anyways.
All they really had to do was wait a few years, be nice to the Sussexes and the popularity they both want was theirs
I dont think they will have their popularity as wales. Wales title become iconic because of diana and charles and both have very good work ethic which cambridge lack much. Now they are duke and duchess so they are comparing them to Sussex when they hit wales title they will be compare to previous wales and fall short.
Re : amy the republican movement is very quiet as of now because of the queen. The queen wont live forever and Tory wont be in that position. When labor comes and queen dies there will Major shift. The world is going for recession and I read that to compensate those lockdown periods many airlines needs five full year to recover . This is from one industry and never say never , nobody thought Brexit will happen. Future is always the mystery.
@Microsoft: Kate will still have the glamour of Diana’s title. It may not last long but she’ll have it. People will tune in to see what she and William do. It’ll be a new era and people will want to watch and see.
As for the monarchy being abolished, I don’t think it’ll happen. The Queen dying will bring a huge amount of sympathy and people will give Charles a chance only so that King William V becomes a thing. Plus getting rid of the monarchy is a large task no one wants to try because they’re so entrenched in our laws and no prime minster/party really wants to go down in history as abolishing the monarchy when there’s no really, really, REALLY strong calls for it.
But we’re in the biggest recession we’ve seen. So never say never
I think Charles will hold off naming William Prince of Wales for a hot minute. Let’s say the queen dies in two years, so William is 40, I bet Charles makes him wait until he’s 45 or so to name him PoW. Remember Duke of Cornwall is automatic, PoW is not.
@becks1 I think Charles knows that the Cambridge’s marriage is heading for the dumpster, so he will definitely hold off on giving Willie the prince of Wales title, whilst he’s still married to Kate. He’ll wait it out for a few years to see what happens with them. If kate gets the princess of Wales title, she will still have it even if they divorce, so even after Willie dumps her ass, she will still be walking the streets calling herself a ‘princess’. It might be part of the reason she’s hanging on.
Becks1 and February-Pisces, I agree. They wouldn’t want competing Princesses of Wales out there. One with the divorced title and one without. If William wants to divorce Kate, they’ll hold off on giving William the POW title. That puts Kate on the outs with only the Cambridge title, which William and the kids would stop using.
Both of them are stunted. They’ve not shown maturity, with or without HM. William has been coddled from birth, what kind of personality would develop from that? Kate was prioritised by Carole because of William. These don’t make people mature.
The monarchy doesn’t have a future if it doesn’t remain relevant to its people, and the times. It’s problem has always been that it is behind in catching up with progress in society. The people in charge of preserving and maintaining the institution think themselves above the changes inherent to any society, but that’s not how people are going to see it, and that’s not how it works. You either keep up with progress, or get swept away by it.
The problem with Meghan and Harry vs William and Kate is that M&H appeal to a more progressive demographic, and the people in charge of the monarchy don’t want the monarchy to be progressive. W&K are pitched in a way that places their appeal firmly in the Little England camp. This is where they see their future, and their fortunes. But on some level, they all know that the crowd that W&K appeal to are no guarantee of longevity. That’s Meghan and Harry. And as long as they remain in the monarchy, and offer the contrast to Will and Kate, there’s every chance popular support would shift towards them. There’s no way W&K would be okay with this. Hence, H&M had to leave.
Kate is really taking hits in this book and again no lawsuits from the Royal houses, especially the Cambridges. I still think the queen and Charles hold her responsible for Sussexit and so far no PR stunts for damage control.
I think they blame both of them, but realize Kate and her family are the ones with known access to the tabloids. Maybe those payments to Wootten didn’t come directly from William but through Carole. The Midds are so eager to please William, they’d do anything to remain in his favor. And William will be the future king. Not much can be done to him. Kate is expendable now that there’s a heir & 2 spares.
I agree. Carole Middleton – IIRC – has friends with influence on staff at the Fail.
For years, Carole and Kate have played tabloid games against William. When he strays too far, they allow pap pics (ex. baby’s first vacation to Mustique while William was hunting with Jecca). We’ve had Kate and Carole vs. William slanted stories over Rose too.
Because if the BRF needs a fall guy, they can and will make it Kate. All those stories about “evil Meghan ruining the “threesome”?” can just as easily be turned it “evil Kate ruined William relationship with Harry and Meghan!” and they can point to this book and say “look William was nice to Meghan at the start but that evil Kate was jealous and FORCED William to stop talking to them both!”
It’s ridiculous and we all know that both the Cambridges were involved but a lot of people would lap it up – especially since William is known to be Diana’s golden boy
I read the book. She was barely mentioned. There are a few times where they say Meghan was surprised that Kate didn’t reach out more, and several times where Harry is sad that their families aren’t closer (but that is not directed at Kate specifically). There’s nothing inherently “bad” about what was written about her-she just comes across as distant and that she and Meghan are really different people.
She’s not though. The book is very kind in its portrayal of literally everyone. The press are the only real villains in it. Everyone, from William, to Kate, to the Queen, to Charles, to even people like Thomas Markle, have excuses made for them. William is just looking out for his brother. Kate is just shy and reserved. The Queen is a kindly grandma who is not to blame for her staffers failing to do their jobs. Charles is a loving father in his own way, who really did like Meghan, but he has a bad tendency to throw his sons under the bus for his own PR. Thomas Markle was a loving father, but he has his own foibles in that he’s a stubborn, proud man who was only trying his best after being beset by the tabloids.
Even Piers Morgan gets off somewhat lightly. The book admits that Meghan met up with him, on her own volition, they had dinner, they chatted about gun control and US politics, and Meghan was curious and intrigued by his contrarian opinions, even though she ultimately disagreed with them.
I don’t think Meghan and Harry sat down to interview for the book. But I think their general influence is still all over it, in that they don’t want to burn bridges with their family. They prefer a conciliatory approach, because in spite of everything, these people are still their fathers/brothers/grandmothers/cousins/uncles/SILs, etc. It was far less about lobbing bombshells and talking about their family, than it was about just straightening out the ridiculous tabloid stories about Meghan and Harry that had been floating out there about literally everything.
Omid totally hits the nail on the head. When they had their first round table discussion as the Fabulous Four, it was apparent. Meghan was dynamic, smart, knowledgeable. Conversely, the other three, but it seemed Kate especially (to me) couldn’t compare. Even her manner, clothing, hair, just had a little woman, take care of me vibe. And that’s just my opinion. But I cringed for her.
It’s probably frustrating for Kate. She probably does work hard in the areas she thinks are important. Image is probably her number one. She can’t look like that and Not spend her days exercisIng like a fiend. Her diet isn’t something I would want, it must be hard, because that is not her natural body type. But to circle back, she probably thinks that image is more important than substance. She doesn’t seem to have any intellectual curiosity and thinks if she plays at the role, she is successful. Could be the reason for the hyena grins. Someone along the line told her she has to be nice, and her image is this over the top, practiced persona. I don’t t think any of this is her.
The real Kate? After Commonwealth Ceremony, I would 100% believe is the cold and distant person described in the book.
You’d think that with the access they have to the very finest of all things, they could manage to educate themselves. People assume those blank faces are them being royally aloof. I think they’re just all dumb as hair.
I’ve said it before, but what strikes me about The Crown is how desperately stupid these people are permitted to be.
The Windsors (and their Hannover predecessors) have never been known for their intelligence. In fact, they have been known for quite the opposite.
I admire Megan a lot. As an American professional woman, I probably identify more with Meghan than with Kate. But I also feel for Kate because I feel like I am in a similar situation with my in laws. I’ve been with my husband for almost 20 years and I’ve always been the dutiful daughter-in-law, done everything right, been respectful, had the only grandchildren. But my brother in law recently married someone who is of the same culture as my in laws and she is very clearly the favorite. And to be clear, I like my sister-in-law quite a bit she’s a wonderful person, but it’s not easy to feel supplanted when you feel like you’ve tried to do everything right for years and years. I think Kate knew that Meghan was going to come in and be very charismatic and take the attention from her and I think she was jealous. Think she’s probably should have gotten over it and done more to assist but it doesn’t mean that the jealousy or the hurt feelings aren’t there under the surface
I feel for you but you didnt actively engage in smear campaign of your in laws. That’s the differences and Kate is mother Teresa like her stan says where her empathy?? She could have easily dismissed the crying story but she didnt. Kate is a karen bitch for God sake. I will never feel sorry for her the way she behave and benefits from smear campaign. She doesnt have sympathy bone in her body.
The press like to build people up to bring them down, especially women. I’m not quite convinced that this is evidence of the tide turning for Kate, but it will come eventually. Hope all the work she’s done to “find her voice” and build her confidence since Meghan arrived will be of good use when the time comes.
I don’t think this is the tide turning either but it does seem like a stage is being set “just in case” they do need to do some PR cleanup and point the finger at one person
Hi, Meghan’s in laws did not show special treatment or stand up for her though.
Anyway I hope you’ll feel better in time.
A lot of women make this mistake, thinking that if they’re “good” enough they will be rewarded with love. But you can’t make people love you. It sucks, but it’s no one’s fault. But your inlaws are not (based on your tone) cruel or even cold to you. That is the difference.
Let’s not forget, Kate was a willing participant in the smear campaign against Meghan. Some of those stories came from the Middleton camp and she was the main beneficiary of the smear campaign. It may look like Kate is the main focus of this saga but William, the Queen, Charles, Camilla and the Yorks are all involved in the taking down of Harry and Meghan. Harry was the most popular royal for years before Meghan, this would have made the other royals jealous and him marrying Meghan gave all of them the opportunity to take him down too.
Kate will give a TV interview to tell her side of the story, as did Diana. What can they threaten her with? If they split she gets alimony and child support and a place to live. Maybe if she ever reaches the point where she no longer cares about him, luxuries, or the crown, we’ll get the truth.
Some day, she may find someone to love her in the way she always hoped William would.
All she cares about is luxury and prestige. She’ll never talk. And if she does, they will humiliate her. They’ll let loose with what they’ve been covering up, and paint it as Decent William loved her despite her insipidity and protected her reputation because she was the mother of his children, etc etc. And lord help her if she ever went rose gardening.
Any divorce settlement would come with a firm NDA. If he paid for her parents new home? She would get a very small settlement.
I think Omid is 100% right that Meghan highlighted Kate’s flaws.
First, let me say that being a SAHM is NOT a flaw. But kate is not a SAHM. She’s the future future queen consort. She is supposed to work, not be a SAHm.
But second, I know a lot of SAHMs. my SIL was one for years. My mom was one when I was little. None of those women gave up their personalities as well as their jobs when they made the decision to stay home. And that’s what I think he means about Kate’s “past era” persona – the way the she dresses, the way she takes a backseat to William (not all the time, but that’s certainly the perception – kate cant work more because of William, etc), the way she pushes the “hands on mother” narrative as if that makes up for all her other shortcomings.
I think Omid is being very careful in his interviews, so I think the fact that he IS throwing so much shade at Kate is very telling, and says to me that Kate was a bigger player in this than the book lets on. (I’m not finished yet, but I don’t think the book makes Kate look good. She doesn’t come off as evil, but if you read between the lines, there was definitely some bad blood there.)
And again, because I do think he is being so careful – I think he is protecting the Queen and Charles because he was told to, or because there just isn’t that same bad blood there.
I have always felt that Kate and Carol were the main players in this. Carol’s interview after H&M’s very successful tour. Her saying that snide remark about royals giving speeches. And then Kate starts to give speeches. Pippa’s FIL is a pedophile and that story gets buried. It has the Middletons all over it.
I tentatively agree – I definitely think the Cambridges were behind the GSC, and I actually think it was probably more Kate/the Middletons than we have previously thought. William did not look good as a result of the criticism aimed at Meghan. Kate did. Kate’s family looked good (the close supportive Middletons!)
I’ve said this before, but when everything comes out (and it will, but it may take decades), it will be interesting to see what actually went down behind the scenes.
I think it started with Carole. Meghan came in and hit the ground running, and Carole, the master planner behind Kate ultimately securing the FFK, saw Meghan’s popularity (TQ took her on a train trip!), and saw her own carefully constructed narrative of so incredibly keen Kate continuing to learn about her role while raising the future heir (and planning to start working real real soon), starting to unravel. No doubt Kate was a more than willing participant but I don’t think she has the skills (or the media contacts?) to spearhead a campaign. Plus she’s used to mom taking care of things. And, she’s basically lazy; there’s still shopping and salon time to schedule.
The book seems to paint Will early on as a more or less benevolent (if not entirely altruistic) older brother. At some point though, that clearly changed. I can see, at that point, KP/the courtiers/Will hooking up with and/or taking over from Carole as the drivers of the smear campaign.
Meghan is just as much a sahm as Kate. She is just not lazy like Kate.
?? No, she’s not. She’s “staying at home” right now because of the pandemic, but Meghan works outside the home. It’s just a different feel because the kind of work she does is different from a traditional 9-5. Right now Meghan is still working from her home. That’s not being a SAHM.
(Kate isn’t a SAHM either, or at least she shouldn’t be.)
I guess I forgot Kate works like a Top CEO.
I think they both actually are working from home, Kate just puts effort into being portrayed as a sahm so everyone jumps to her defense. Odd since she is the only one with full time nannies.
Several nannies, Lizzie, plus all the other staff. That was an unsurprising takeaway from this, how Harry didn’t want his home filled with staff like William’s is. Because for all their ‘we’re normal’ posing, W&K rarely lift a finger when it comes to the house or the kids.
Megan made Kate look lazy. She still does actually….
Kate makes Kate look lazy, but then again, so would a tree sloth.
Tree sloths have a full schedule and no assistants.
Omid has to thread the needle and straddle the line because he still has to live and work. He can’t afford to be cut off from his livelihood by denigrating the Queen and the Prince of Wales. That’s just reality. But reading between the lines, Omid definitely knows more than what’s written in the book and what he’s saying in interviews. Something major went down between the Cambridges and the Sussexes that drove the Sussexes to put an ocean and several time zones between them.
Well all the Royals family is anachronistic, a useless dinosaur.
Also, think about the danger and damage the courtiers and Cambridges did. Pre-engagement and wedding, the animosity and hate towards Meghan hand ramped up far beyond what the Palace was use to. Meghan’s life was at risk for daring to love Harry and marry into a white space. Knowing that, the courtiers and the Cambridges still orchestrated and ramped up a hateful smear campaign against Meghan. How cruel. One can only assume they did want something bad to happen to Meghan. So glad Harry saw the dangers and got his family out of that toxic situation.
Yes she did come in and make Kate look “dull” and “old-fashioned” but Kate has always been like that after she married – Meghan just highlighted what was there.
Kate is basic and boring, which isn’t the same thing as being age or station-appropriate (look at Queen Letizia or even Duchess of Wessex, if you must). Even on the most superficial level on which they claim Kate excels (ie fashion), I’ve never looked at Kate and thought, “oh hey, I want that poorly altered coat”. I’ve actually bought some delicate Birks pieces that I saw on Meghan, changed up how I do my highlighter for certain looks, and also started looking more into Aquazzura shoes. She’s the modern, working professional woman in her late 30’s. Kate’s how I imagine mommy-shamers look – outdated everything, constipated face, and petty energy all around her. That’s all on her, not on Meghan.
Frankly if I’m a taxpayer, being or looking boring is a non issue. Laziness is. Nobody has said Sophie is Sophie Dolittle. Maybe bitchy but she does her fair share for the Queen.
While I think William and Harry have their own issues (as well as every other Windsor, they are a disaster of a family), you can’t deny that Kate benefited the most from the Meghan smear campaign. She went from Duchess Doolittle to Saint Kate literally overnight. All while not changing a single thing about herself. It’s probably true to say that the cat fight does distract from other issues, but I also don’t think Kate is simply a scapegoat or it’s just the press trying to sell a headline. Her family is as social climbing and competitive as they come. She had the most to lose from Meghan coming in and being well liked, and she gained the most from attacking her. So maybe the focus on her (and the middletons) has some truth to it. Maybe Omid keeps gently guiding us towards her for a reason, reasons he can’t outright say.
To be clear, I think William was horrible and Charles and the queen dropped the ball by not supporting Harry and Meghan (at the least). But I don’t think The Kate vs Meghan thing is only a distraction.
Charles hid while his newborn grandson was compared to a well dressed chimpanzee. He didn’t just drop the ball, he slammed it into his son’s face.
I agree. I think they were cowardly and complicit by not publicly speaking out. The only thing I can say for Charles is that he probably didn’t actively work to run out the Sussex’s. He just also didn’t do shit to help them.
Well, how much does an endorsement from Mr. Tampon mean, anyway?
Amm, I would not be surprised if Omid knows for a fact that the Middletons had a hand in providing the press with info for negative stories about Meghan. He is still part of that press group, even if many of them are salty about his success, and info gets passed around like in any other work group.
Honestly, I feel like I know what happened. Kate and I were born in the same year, and we were both young highschoolers when Diana died. For several years before that she had been more of a celebrity than a traditional member of the royal family, so that’s what we remember about Diana. We were too young for the sad awful parts of her royal life. We KNEW about it, but we SAW her as glamorous and always on vacation and dancing with John Travolta and doing whatever she wanted because by that time she pretty much had said f u to the royals. And basically living apart from her prince full time and having exciting love affairs. That was what we knew about her. That’s what we thought being the princess of Wales was. There are plenty of boring things about being a traditional princess in the British royal family but there would be enough fun extras to cover that.
But Diana shattered all that and now you could be a famous person too. So she gets both the things any teenage girl wants: to lay around and have whatever you want handed to you. And get praise and affirmation from literally everyone around you Which was probably what she needed having Carole as a mother.
But there’s only one Diana, she didn’t usher in some new era for the royal family, she just convinced them that they got lucky before she did anything to disgraceful, and convince them that in the future they would have to try harder to quash that sort of thing. She can’t live apart from her philandering husband, or go have fun with other men, she hast to buckle down even harder and pretend that everything is OK because the Royals are even more into this middle-class, happy family cosplay than ever before. And stay below the radar enough so that nobody abolishes the monarchy. The “fun” part is gone. No more yacht holidays.
Her mother gets what she always wanted, which was the status… She was never going to be the one in the pictures anyway… But Kate has nothing that she bargained for, and a lot of shit that she thought she’d never have to deal with it.
Sidenote: I even think that she would have welcomed the attention that was negative that Diana got. This is a woman who went out multiple times and flashed her entire nether region. Who stumbled home drunk after calling the photographers to tell them where she’d be. Don’t y’all remember her grinning out and flirting with the adoring crowd, taunting them with little hints? She loooooves it. She’s not a shy introvert, she is exactly the opposite. But they’re not allowing her to do anything that will get her any of the attention that she craves. Her worst thing is not to be hated, it’s to be doll and have no one pay attention at all.
It’s sad because honestly, I’d like that Kate a lot more. I’d love to watch Diana’s legacy play out.
Everyone talks about how she gambled and gambled and won! It paid off and she got the prince. But I think she knows she made a terrible mistake. She didn’t want to be an old fashioned princess. She wanted the 16 bathrooms. She wanted what Megan has and there in lies the rub.
I’m the same age as prince harry so my memories of Diana are similar. She was the biggest star in the world, bigger than any movie star or pop star. Even to this day I can’t think of many people who can equal her fame. I don’t remember much prior to her and Charles 1992 separation so I don’t remember what it was like for them to make pretend to be the perfect married couple, it’s weird I couldn’t even imaging them being together. I get so many young girls looking up to her and imaging what it would be like to be her, Kate included.
I think kate thought she would automatically step into Diana’s shoes, and that her star power would automatically be granted to her. I think kate needed to realise sooner that even Diana didn’t want to be “diana’ just like harry doesn’t want that life also. They craved normality more than us ‘normals’ crave stardom.
Hmmmm, this is an interesting point. Kate thought being a princess would be like the later years of Diana’s life – the vacations, glamour, etc. She didn’t pick up on all the work Diana was doing besides that (even after she left the royal family.)
I think Kate also misread the room in that Diana was the princess of wales – she was married to the next king and would be the next queen. Yes, we joke about Kate being “future future queen consort” – but we have heard so much over the past few weeks about how hierarchical the royal family is. Diana was going to have access to a lot more because she was the Princess of Wales- better jewels, etc.
Kate doesn’t want to be middle class and honestly I think the normal cosplay probably annoys her, because you’re right Circe – she wanted the glamour and the vacations and all those trappings of royalty, and she’s stuck playing housewife in Norfolk.
Although, just because its bugging me, the Travolta dancing happened while she was still married 😉
Kate seems to be an extension of her husband, mother, in-laws & the institution. She does not appear as someone with her own core values and opinions. To me, this is not a flaw. It’s very different than my personality and the strong féminist tones in pop culture, but it is not a flaw to be old-fashioned. I’ve known many people like this and they are rather nice. If she did actively smear Meghan (and I say if because I don’t want to assume I know everything about the RF), then that is the character flaw. Omid fits this into the narrative of the modern working woman VS. 50’s era Sahm (whose husband may have been having an affair at the time) , to which many women can relate. How much of this is true and how much of it is being manipulated to fit a popular narrative and sell more books & magazines, we will probably never know.
That’s bs. My grandmothers were stay at home mothers and did not sublimate their personalities like Kate does. They had opinions and didn’t stand behind their husband. They lived the 1950s and it was not quite like how Mad Men portrayed it.
Kate is acting like one of those evangelical trad wives and that’s beyond any stay at home mother notion that a woman who wants her own agency is prepared to accept.
Also the commonwealth service is a video example of Kate being ignorant to Harry and Meghan. If that’s not enough proof that Kate actively participated in the smear then you will never be convinced.
I am saying that the argument being portrayed fits into a common debate, not that it is an accurate representation of women in the 1950s or stay at home mothers….
@Erin, let’s be fair though, there are definitely members of the royal family who have been staid and conservative in their approach and outlook, but still enjoyed immense popularity. The Queen Mother, for example, was one of the most popular members of the family right up until her death. She had very firm ideas on what she thought the monarchy should be like, and she pulled the strings to enforce those ideas on the institution, even after her daughter became Queen.
You’re right on two counts. Kate is an extension of the institution. And she does not have a voice of her own when it comes to how the public see her. I don’t think she is quite as powerless as people insinuate–I think she is perfectly capable of asserting herself in the places where she needs to. If William wanted to abdicate tomorrow, for example, she’d make her views on that patently clear. I think she is more willing to accept how the hierarchy works in the royal family, and not make any unnecessary waves that would jeopardize her position, which is paramount to her. So, as you said, her appearance of not having any core values or opinions (and I think it’s an appearance), is a strategy, in the same way the Queen Mother’s sweet assertiveness was a strategy.
And like you said, the strategy in itself isn’t a character flaw. She could do what the QM or Meghan did, but she doesn’t want to. That’s not her jam. But what is a character flaw is her own behaviour. And I do think she played a considerable part in smearing Meghan, either through her inaction, or by actively participating in it herself. If she’d picked up the phone, rung Richard Kay or Dan Wootten, and told either of them that their whole “Meghan made Kate cry” story was just bonkers, it would have put the whole thing to rest. She didn’t. The fact that she didn’t is telling in itself. A great deal of the criticism of Kate in the book was very pointed.
Meghan made Kate look dull. Tatler said Kate knew the comparisons would not favor her. I don’t beleve being a stay at home mom is old fashioned. Meghan is just as much a stay at home mom as Kate.
I think it became obvious that their ambitions and drive were very different, even if they were both. SAHM. Their projects and actions were soon in different places.
Megan is not a SAHM out of choice. The second this pandemic is over, she will be working
House Cambridge went batsh!t after Meghan baked that BANANA BREAD during the Australia tour.
Apparently Kate can’t cook at all … either jealousy or resentment that the C’s would never think of something so original.
The knives are out. Every day Kate becomes colder, duller, more expensive, less engaged, lazier.
I wonder if Penis With Teeth has already found a replacement for her and is preparing to unveil a Suitable Substitute? The “Ideal Queen Consort”? What do other Bitchies think?
Andrew’s Nemesis, very much ITA. I said it further up but it really feels like Kate is being set up for something. The thing that initially raised my eyebrow was that photo of William, Charlotte, and George supposedly delivering food to a neighbor. I know they said Kate took the photo so that’s why she wasn’t in it, but it just seemed odd to use that shot as family promo. Then the photos of William and all the kids for Father’s Day and his birthday. Again, just him and his kids. You can argue that of course the photos would highlight him because of those two days, but if my memory is right from what was reposted here, the SM posts for Mother’s Day and Kate’s birthday included William. Or at least I don’t recall getting a “it’s just mom and her kids” vibe.
yes, I feel the same too. why Louis was not included in her birthday or mother’s day photo? but was included in Williams weird?
The Mother’s Day photo definitely included Will in the background. There was also a photo around the holidays of William and the kids alone. I find the exclusion of Kate from these photos of the past 6+ months quite odd, even with the claim that she’s taking these photos. Their “perfect family” shtick would presumably require more of her presence in these photos…
The vibe between them has never been the least bit romantic, in fact most of the time he just looks away, jaw clenched, and ignores her. A couple of the Zoom calls they did were notable for the tension between them – she looked like they’d been up all night fighting. I think, for the most part, they are living separate lives and if William continues with the philandering, he may meet someone he falls hard for and trade Keen in for a newer, more exciting model.
I don’t know. Despite all of it, I still cannot see William ever divorcing Kate. She’s dull and boring, and William clearly seems to not have any respect or patience for her, but he seems too driven for them to be seen as the perfect happy family. I can’t help but think that the last thing he wants is to be the prince who divorces, like his parents, especially if a mistress is involved (which I already believe there is). I get the sense that Charles and Diana’s mess of a marriage and messy divorce has a lot to do with his determination to make it work–or at least APPEAR like it works.
It would take an extraordinary woman (to William) to make him divorce Kate. His father divorced and is doing ok. Since he thinks he is a PR genius he probably thinks he can do the same if push comes to shove.
I think Kate suits him. And if these aristocrats believe in open marriage anyway, he can have his flings at the side and still enjoy Diana’s golden boy / family man image.
I think that it’s been stressed heavily to William that he cannot do anything to upset the monarchy. His father did enough. They got pretty close to some really awful questions about the existence of the monarchy in the aftermath of Charles’ divorce. It took years to repair the damage.
William is supposed to be the palate cleanser after all the dissolute adultery from Charles. He’s The Good One(TM). The one who is faithful to his wife. Their parenting is hyped to the max to show how different and modern the royals are from their days past. W&K aren’t cold and formal like Charles or the Queen towards their children. They care about their emotional well-being, unlike Charles or the Queen. William is a considerate person, unlike Charles, who wasn’t.
In light of that, how would it look if it came out that well, their marriage really isn’t all that modern and different than most other royal marriages from the past? That William is still unfaithful and disrespectful to his wife and family? That they lead largely separate lives? That they stay together, really, because they value the stability of this institution above their personal interests, ie putting duty over love etc. That their children are raised with help from the nannies.
That would be disastrous, after all the work that people did to put things at rights for the next generation. The monarchy took great pains to try and make it look like there didn’t need to be a choice between love and duty. They weren’t snobby and old-fashioned. Kate was a wonderful middle-class breath of fresh air. She went to college. She and William were together for 10 years before marriage, so you know they made sure they wanted to be together. He’s the monarch who’ll fix everything, take them into a golden age where they can put all the awfulness of Charles and Diana behind. So how would it look, to the public, if it turned out that William wasn’t that different after all?
Charles being able to divorce Diana and remarry a divorcee who was the other woman in this first marriage, paves the way for William if he wants to be free. Having two sons, did not ensure security for Diana. William if he found someone (he was looking around for other people to date during his breakups with Kate) would leave Kate and want to remarry and he would. Kate and the children would be provided for. And if he wanted out, he would divorce her.If anything, I think William is more formal with the children, pushing George as the “special one.” don’t recall seeing pictures of WIlliam with the Queen and Charles until he was in his teens. George at age 4 or 5 was in a dynasty photo.
@Tessa, I don’t think this is actually about what anyone wants on a personal level. It’s about image. Charles got his divorce, but the disintegration of the Wales’ marriage exposed the monarchy as this really nasty, outdated, old-fashioned institution, in a really public way. It made the public question why they were paying so much to keep an institution whose values had no relevance to the modern day.
To counter that, the younger generation, particularly William, were held up as a modern future to the monarchy, one that could keep up with the times. William’s marriage to Kate is an especially important part of that. And it’s the outward projection of this image of modernity that’s most important, not the actual substance of their lives. The monarchy wants to appear modern, even if it actually isn’t, because it’s the appearance that’s helped them limp along and resurrect their popularity with the public.
This is why there’s so much concern about Kate appearing old-fashioned. William and Kate know they have to pay lip service to the idea of progress and modernity for their job security.
And a potential divorce could very well upset that image, particularly if it comes out that William had been consistently unfaithful, and that Kate had endured those infidelities with silence, out of a desire to preserve appearances. And that Kate had silently endured these humiliations because she’s a desperate social climber, egged on by her mother to bag the most eligible prince available, all out of a desire to be Queen. And that her entire life and identity is in service of this desire to stay in a relationship with a man, because that relationship is the path to obtaining an unearned title and status, in an unequal society.
Charles paved the way for divorce, but he did not pave the way for a clean divorce. We saw from Charles and Diana, that the whole family, the institution, and the country itself got a say. Public opinion is a huge factor, because the monarchy cannot exist without having the public on its side. The only way William can divorce Kate is if he can do it without turning the public against himself, or the monarchy itself in the process. Without that, they’re stuck as they are.
As we’ve discussed on here before, he has choices.
– Married a friend for security, wrong reasons, they are ‘consciously uncoupling’
– If the Middletons refuse to go quietly, he claims fragile adolescent mental health, manipulation, coersion. Thrown them under the bus about Harry and Meghan. No one likes the Middletons; they can be torn apart in the tabloid press and no one will care.
I don’t think so. The palace wouldn’t allow it. And I doubt William wants to do anything to upset the current life balance he has for himself. I think that he is content to have Kate as his official wife, with them leading separate lives, and is carrying on affairs on the side. Whether one of those affairs is with a person he cares about deeply is up in the air, but even if he did love that hypothetical person, he would never divorce Kate and marry them.
It’s too much work to do that, to rebuild his image with the public with a new wife, and I’d be very surprised if it actually happened. And the monarchy can’t afford another scandal with the heir to the throne being unfaithful. It would be a disaster. The comparisons to Charles would be inevitable, and completely unflattering. The palace machine would rather threaten legal action against anyone who breathes any whiff about any affairs to the press.
I don’t think that we’ll get any word or knowledge of any affairs that William might have had until after Charles is dead. As long as Charles is there, William has to be the good boy in contrast in the eyes of the public. I think once William has safely become king, if he becomes king, we’ll see more information in the light of day. Because by that point, he and Kate will have achieved what they set out to do. It won’t matter by then what people say about them. And William will have no need to keep up any pretense of being faithful if Charles is no more.
That’s why it would take an extraordinary woman for William to divorce Kate. It’s too much work for him. The Palace would be the second control to dissuade him against divorcing.
But if it really comes to that, it’s doable and he would still harness the Palace to rally behind him. They have handled multiple royal divorces and would just be like “Here we go again” but they’d still dig into their heels and work on the PR.
@Alexandria, all the other royal divorces happened well before William’s time. The people who handled them are no longer on staff, and they handled those divorces extremely poorly.
With Charles, his constitutional ability to inherit the throne came under question, because it wasn’t certain whether or not a divorced person could even be the head of the Church of England. He had to make a promise at some point that he would never remarry after the divorce, because the public backlash against him (and Camilla) was just too high. It took decades for him to right his public image, and it still hasn’t been fully repaired.
It’s not the doability of it that’s a factor here, or even the sort of person for whom William would find this effort worth it. It’s whether William is willing to countenance the negative press that would come his way, particularly with regards to his infidelity, which would be front page news in any instance of divorce. It’s whether or not they can do this without any sort of negative press affecting William’s eligibility as the future King, in the eyes of the public.
And it’s whether Kate would consent to a quiet divorce and payoff, thereby relinquishing the only reason she married William in the first place, without putting up a fight. I don’t think she would. I cannot see any divorce scenario where she doesn’t do everything it takes to drag the whole process out and force a reconciliation of some type with William. I can definitely see her contesting the divorce if it ever came to it. This is not a matter that is just up to William to decide. Diana refused to agree to the terms of her divorce with Charles, and hired her own legal team to negotiate, and threatened to contest the divorce if she didn’t get a favourable settlement for herself.
Given all of this, there is just no way there’s any girl out there who is worth all of the trouble for William to divorce Kate. People are putting too much stock into the notion that William is driven by things like love or compatibility when it came to finding a spouse. He’s just as mercenary as Kate can be, when it comes to certain things. I think he cares a lot about his image in the press and the public. He knows a lot of the goodwill rests on the fact that he is expected to not be anything like Charles towards his own wife and family. He would squander that away if he ever took steps to divorce Kate. He wouldn’t do it for just any old lady when he can quietly have an affair with her without any repercussions whatsoever.
@A
The old lady would have to agree to being a mistress. Many would find being a side piece degrading, yes even aristocrats who used to feel honored being a kings bedmate.
Even camilla wanted to be legitimised and be an honest woman.
At first she was happy just being the side piece whilst married to Parker bowles but when that ended she wasn’t going to settle for less than wife status. Prince Charles was happy to carry on just being partnered with camilla and didn’t need a queen by his side on the throne.
Camillas wedding attire convinced me she wanted it more than him. There was no need for a white champagne colored coat dress with that huge hat trying to mimic some sort of tiara. Her huge grin reeked of ‘finally!’. Charles looked more somber.
Camilla never wanted to marry Charles. It was public pressure from the former archbishop of Canterbury, plus public pressure that Charles should marry her.
William can get out of this marriage ‘cleanly’ in several ways. The easiest is to throw the Middletons, their tabloid connections, their shady finances, Uncle Gary, and their manipulation of #PoorWilliam under the bus. They agree to go quietly or the entire weight of the royal machine is turned on them. The Midds would not survive.
William has shown for years that he cannot tolerate Kate’s unprofessionalism. Clenching his fists, rolling his eyes when she speaks. She is an embarrassment to him, and William’s ego won’t stand for that.
Believe they are living separate lives and Kate is trying to get Wills to stay put long enough for baby number 4. “Papa was a Rolling Stone.” Lol!
William has an ego worse than Charles. Now he sees marrying Kate was a mistake, one that makes him look bad. That’s the key. She makes him look bad on the international stage. When he’s tired of it, he will get out.
Charles has paved the way with Camilla. If the Middletons refuse to go quietly, William will throw them under the bus. Explain how in his fragile mental state, he fell for the manipulative Middleton ‘family’ persona. The entire royal machine will rip open everything about the Middletons, from their shady off-shore business to the charges against Pippa’s FIL. Everything that has been covered up will be revealed.
It is all set up so nicely to save William’s image if need be. Just start the narrative by describing a young, somewhat sheltered motherless college boy who was just looking for the sweet family life he never had and got taken advantage of by a bunch of scheming upstarts with dubious finances and an even more dubious extended family member. Is that the truth? No. But the public would absolutely buy it once a full light was shone upon everything Middleton. Anything they would try and hit William with could just be spun right back around to be the result of their own actions. Add in a press group that will always ultimately side with the BRF along with the general misogyny that runs in the way things like this are viewed (always the woman’s fault) and this is a game that Kate and the Middletons would never win.
I mean, she built that image for herself. As long as Harry’s wife has an iota of a personality, she was gonna look like a dull doormat in comparison.
As for Kate being set up as the fall guy…..I have no sympathy. She’s half the driving force behind Sussexit and knows William will never be blamed. She and her horrible mother choice to participate and pile on anyways. And for what? She’s going to get the prize she always wanted: The crown. There was no reason to be nasty to Meghan. Harry’s wife would always going to be less than her in the press, there was no reason to add to the abuse. But she did so oh well. All she had to do was bid her time (she waited 10 years for William but couldn’t wait for this? This should’ve been light work for her) till the popularity around H&M died down but jealousy is powerful.
The C’s totally set themselves up, all that part time working, being “parents”, hey, I work and I am a parent, why can’t you? Especially since they work 8 hours every day (yeah, right)
I hated that whole thing, that they’re parents so they couldn’t be expected to work. I took 3 months maternity leave and toward the end of it, I was basically doing W&K’s workload. I’d go to a museum by myself (quiet! oh so quiet!), I even toured a brewery, did a sip and paint class (btw I was not breastfeeing), I attended town meetings. The local university had a lecture series from literary figures. I went to that. I was still a mom. My kid was happy and healthy. 21 years later he is not scarred for life because Mom went away for a few hours once or twice a week.
Meghan certainly had better hat game. Simple and classic. Kate’s look make her look like a mean headmistress.
Ooh personally not for me. I think Kate wore hats better maybe because she’s English and used to it. I think I would suck at it.
Agree Marigold. A few times Meghan had a ‘That Girl’ look and I always loved it.
‘Mean headmistress’ is perfect.
No those dowdy clothes and new makeover to cover up her butt flashing days make her look incredibly old fashioned, meghan has nothing to do with it, dont blame meghan for that.
The showing the baby the day it’s born is so weird to me! How can you even stand up after that?! My vag was so sore and swollen and bleeding I would have needed some depends after having an 8 and a half pound baby and an actual organ come out of me. Why can’t they just show it a week or so later? I see the monarchy breaking down and it’s not a day too soon. They have no purpose at this point. Why do they get to live a life of leisure and wealthy just because of who they were born to or married, especially on tax payer money?
It is very medieval actually: the court waiting outside the birthing bed and the newborn being showed.
But I think Diana wanted to get done with it and they developed this post-birth showing to the press as an event. Before, when TQ was having her children, there would be an announcement followed by a taped segment, but later on.
We really wouldn’t know whether Kate really disliked it. Knowing how she stans for Diana and how she loves her position as FFQC, she could also have thought she was the most special royal (even tho she’s in pain). I must show that I am Queen material, I bore the heir and the spares. Here look! Worship me!
The first time, she wore a copy of a dress Diana wore on her honeymoon. The cosplay horror continues.
Waity would have stood on her head after giving birth if she thought it would secure her place.
It will forever be a tragedy that the BRF and the Cambridges in particular couldn’t understand what Meghan brought to the fold. Kate fills the roll of “traditional royal spouse” very well. And there’s a segment of the population that expects and respects that from the BRF. But there’s also a segment of the British population, and probably most of the commonwealth, who view the monarchy as archaic and useless. Meghan was a breath of fresh air to those folks and made them think twice about the monarchy again.
It was such a great opportunity to have Kate represent the upper-crust, traditional British society and Meghan represent the diverse, progressive part of society. They could have had it all, but petty egos got in the way.
Yes, totally short sighted on their part. But they’ve never been known for being forward thinking . . .
Kate and the MiddleScams deserve what’s coming to them.
Completely agree. She and her family were happily active participants in the smear campaign against Meghan. Let’s not forget Kate suddenly pulling out a bunch of old outfits to wear as the press ganged up on Meghan for her wardrobe. Or her mother haughtily declaring that “being royal isn’t about making speeches” after Meghan gave several on the Oceania tour. Or Kate shading Meghan for not doing the Lindo Wing routine on that podcast. Or even Kate seeming to be still as a statue at family events when it came time to make room for Meghan to stand alongside everyone.
These are not the actions of someone who’s a passive beneficiary or just following her husband’s orders. They’re the actions of a woman who is just as bitter, competitive, and nasty as the family she married into.
‘Or Kate shading Meghan for not doing the Lindo Wing routine on that podcast.’
I never bothered listening to that podcast, so I must have missed this. What shade did she throw??
@L84Tea: She said that she was happy to do the Lindo Wing routine because of the public’s support and she felt it was an important thing to do. After all the “how dare she” outrage Meghan received from the press and the royalist elements of the public, it was pretty nasty for Kate to make those comments.
She could have supported Meghan’s choice to do something different but she didn’t. That was the first and most obvious sign she was a part of the smear. It’s a bitch move to question what another mother decides to do with her newborn child.
That’s kind of you to say, but Kate can barely face an audience, cannot interact with adults well at all and has done exactly what in the past 10 years aside from 5 questions, a garden and having three kids? One of which William didn’t even want. She did well at the “royal broodmare” part but as for the rest of it, nope.
She dived into the archives for an old baby buggy and plenty of William’s and Harry’s baby clothes to use for Diana cosplay. That makes her some kind of A+ researcher or historian, right?
It’s the inability to deal with the public facing aspects of her position, even though it’s exactly that which gets her support. As @deedee said, Kate banks on the nostalgia in a big way, but she doesn’t bother forging much of her own path in any other respect.
There are plenty of times when she revels in the public aspects of her role. Movie premieres, yacht races. It is only when she is expected to *do* something of use that suddenly she plays inept.
I find it very odd that people are sticking up for Kate Or even feeling sorry for her because I don’t Ombie criticism of kate is very mild compared to what the tabloids say about Meghan on a daily basis the tabloids portrayed Meghan as not even being human being. And Kate aka Karen benefits to this very day even now people are bending over backwards to defend kate and blame the other royals listen kate was just as involved in the smearing campaign against Meghan by wear old clothes while Meghan was heavy criticizes for buying new clothes as newly married in royal. How about that podcast that kate did after the Sussex’s left were she claimed all pregnant woman and mother should stick together and offer support while kate benefits and actively helped smeared Meghan while she was pregnant where was kate help when Meghan and Archie were at a polo game and she and her kids actively ignored them . It’s about time kate gets dragged and called and no longer infantilism by the public enough with oh poor kate she not innocent she not a nice or kind woman in fact she is mean spirited racist jealous woman who didn’t have any problems with helping to make Meghan life hell . And she tried to do again with the Tatler story where she once again and knowing lie about Meghan again and falsely claim that Meghan made her cry when we all know thanks to this book that never happen tell me would a innocent kind woman continually to tell that story when she knows it’s not true at all then she added more versions of stories when people called her out .
After reading the current comments, I am beginning to think Kate / Carole may be the main antagonists here instead of William. Oh my. I mean William is still a jerk but it’s a fascinating theory that Omid may be hinting something about Kate here. As some said, Kate’s PR suddenly changed with all the embiggening. Her hemlines became longer, she dressed more conservatively and she started recycling her outfits. She started to try giving more speeches. She wore work pants instead of jeggings. That Flybe stunt. The annoying Meghan made Kate cry story. Holy crap. If she is the main player instead of William, she is indeed competitive. She should really take up a sport like Zara. That’s manic.
All roads lead back to the complicated and uncomfortable heir/spare dynamic that has likely festered between William and Harry from the very beginning.
Duty and responsibility always wins out over love and loyalty with these people.
It’s always about the smackdown for the big chair. And that big chair is literally ALL these people think or care about.
But by all means, let’s continue to make it just another story of two petty little princesses playing “mirror, mirror” and refusing to get along.
“It’s always about the smackdown for the big chair. And that big chair is literally ALL these people think or care about.”
Except Harry has no interest in “the big chair” – never has. He’s literally been quoted as saying “nobody wants to be King”. But sure, William and Harry are fighting to be King. And people also need to realise that people have blamed William for months.
It was only until the CW Day that people started to look at Kate differently. But before that it was “I feel sorry for her as she probably does what William tells her to do.” and “I don’t think she actually has a hand in all this she just benefits.” – even on this site
But, again, sure, let’s pretend everyone is wrongly blaming the women because Kate stans cannot fathom Kate being a mean girl
Exactly nowhere in my post did I say, or even imply, that William and Harry are “fighting to be king.”
I’m talking about the dysfunction and inevitable resentment born of growing up inside a system that tells one child they’re ordained by god to rule, while telling the other he’s quite literally spare parts.
That Harry doesn’t want to wear a crown is obvious, and always has been. It’s also his biggest problem, and very much always has been. Because two things:
1 – That throne is EVERYTHING to the small army of sycophants whose lives literally revolve around it.
And 2 – those sycophants do NOT handle rejection well.
The British royal family and the machinery behind Future King, Inc. is reaping the seeds THEY planted with these two years ago, and as per usual, they have a bumper crop of dysfunction they’re desperate to blame on something – anything – other than themselves.
This dynamic existed WAY before girlfriends and spouses were added to the mix, so the constant spinning on the part of the monarchy that everything was perfectly fine before That Woman ripped Harry away from his family is some deeply stupid, sexist BS.
Why look into Casa Windsor’s deafening silence regarding what Mumsy’s little Prince Pedophile has been up to all these years when there is a righteous tizzy to be had over idiotic palace-sponsored hissing contests about “bitchfaces” and “mean girls” (sigh.)
Not to mention, dismissively scoffing at the idea that the heir/spare dynamic baked into the very foundation of the British monarchy often results in dysfunction, discord, and general mayhem is ignoring about 1,000 years of British history.
One princess made a bitchface to the other one during a church service over walking in a procession. You can’t explain that away. That’s Kate being a sour, petty and pathetic woman.
Harry resented not being able to always do the work he wanted because he is the spare. He just wanted to work he did not want Williams position.
He also undoubtedly resented the relentless narrative of his childhood and young adulthood as being the volatile, not-very-bright, also-ran to William’s gallant, spitting-image-of-his-mother, shiny preview of kingly perfection.
Coverage of them growing up hammered on their “us against the world” close brotherly bond, watched over by their protective dad and inside the circled wagons of the royal family. Charles benefitted enormously from that image boost.
Never bought a bit of it.
We’ve all met a Kate in our day. Bitter with her life choices, jealous and envious of others, cutting other women down to make themselves shine. She has no girlfriends because she is an alpha female and women are her competition with men. My mother is an alpha female and she views me as a direct competitor with my father for his affection and love. I pity Kate’s daughter. My own mother openly and shamelessly flirted with all of my boyfriends.
I’m so sorry that your mother treats you this way. Mother-daughter relationships can be really complicated. Mine is, just in a different way – bc my mother has trouble separating herself from me. I sometimes get the feeling that she cannot see us as two separate people (and it doesn’t help that we share the same birthday). It is absolutely stifling – and exhausting to have to spend so much time and energy to battle her because she just doesn’t respect my personal boundaries.
There’s a more curious question here to ask as well–why would Kate appearing more old-fashioned in comparison to Meghan be a problem in the first place? To either the palace aides, who are again described as more conservative when it comes to the institution than the royals themselves, or Kate herself?
I wonder if it’s an insecurity regarding her own life choices that came to the surface here, or the genuine fear that she is starting to look less palatable in comparison to Meghan in the eyes of a public that is much more modern in its outlook than Kate is.
Either way, why isn’t Kate or anyone else taking measures to rebrand her somehow? It really wouldn’t have taken much at all. Kate sticking up in solidarity for Meghan, in some small, but notable ways, would have gone a long way. She would have gotten so much easy adulation for supporting other women, by doing just the barest minimum.
The issue here isn’t just the fact that her choices make her appear more old-fashioned. It’s the fact that she doesn’t have a voice of her own, or anyone to spin her choices in a much more positive light. People like Anne, and Camilla, or even the Queen, don’t have this issue, even though I can guarantee they’re much more old-fashioned in their outlooks in some ways than Kate is. It can’t bode well for a monarchy that exists only due to popular support to have, at its helm, someone whose image might not engender that support in the first place.
They don’t need to rebrand her because they know they can sell it. Nostalgia and affection for “simpler” times is big right now – however misremembered, sexist, colonialist, paternalistic, etc.
Kate is simple and easy, while Meghan is complicated and pushy.
And we all know, based on the last four years of press coverage of them both, EXACTLY what that means.
But are they selling it? If they were selling it, would anyone be bringing up the fact that Kate looks old-fashioned in contrast to Meghan? It shouldn’t concern anyone if that imagery was so popular, right?
You can wish to appeal to the little England monarchist types, but how big is that crowd, and more importantly, can that crowd hold a candle to the sort of popularity and adulation that Meghan brought to the royal family?
Meghan “outsells” Kate by a long shot. And she outsells Kate precisely because she is a progressive, who takes a progressive, outspoken stance on the issue. I think people, particularly the courtiers and the staffers, can want things to be a particular way all they like. But if that is not garnering the public’s support for the monarchy, it doesn’t amount to much.
How big is that crowd? At 65 and over, 11.4 million. At 50 to 64, approximately 23 million. The 50’s and over are 34 million strong in a country of 66 million. That’s how big.
Well, I think a certain contingent THINKS they can sell it.
I personally see Kate’s style shifts as a deliberate and calculated response to “exotic” Meghan and all her accompanying drama and upheaval. Bouncing around L.A. in cutoff shorts and unshellack’ed hair is fine for some people, but Kate wears those nude pantyhose like a champ and LIKES it, thankyouverymuch.
Looking at the state of the world right now, some people will absolutely eat that up.
Okay, I’ll just say it. Racists. Racists are real suckers for “old fashioned.” They will eat it right up and ask for seconds.
Kate still wants the sex appeal and to be thought of as youthful, which she won’t get with the grandma gear.
The top CEO, aka William’s assistant, wanted everyone to believe that it takes at least 7 years to learn how to duchess and give speeches. Meghan proved that is not the case. Enter the Duchess of Sourbridge; it is beyond shameful that she lets jealousy and over-competitiveness drive her actions!
Kate was competitive and not welcoming. I wonder if she knew any woman of color her whole life, tbh.
Kate is friends with Emma sayle.
Miss Sayle caused outrage when she posted a message on the social networking site that read: ‘Just had a two-hour shooting lesson. She will now be using this skill on the top of East London high rises to help with the UK’s illegal immigrant problem.’
That’s the ‘friend’ who runs the high-end o r g y business, right?
I believe many things about Kate. But I don’t believe she is more than acquaintances with Emma Sayle from that boat race she trained for until William crooked his finger at her again. Any friendship is purely in Emma Sayle’s head.
Kate is too calculated to be friends with someone who is similarly driven to be the leader of the mean girl pack. She also knows that being friends with Emma Sayle would bring her no country set credit
If it’s the woman nota is referring to they were photographed having lunch together and Kate is rarely seen with other women so they might not be best friends, but there was some kind of friendship happening. Or at least they both saw the value in having their connection made known to the public.
Yes, Nic919. She’s rarely seen with any other woman, but there’s Emma in the pap photos with her, and at the Rabbit movie event with Kate too.
Kate probably wanted to be seen to be friends with her because williams friends at the time had said “Kate’s the safe default option” but Williams looking for someone “more adventurous”. “He may appear shy and retiring but he actually likes girls who are raunchy and outgoing. “
I will always feel that William was stunned that his younger brother—the screw up–had managed to find such an accomplished, charming and intelligent partner. That their grandmother and father took to her so easily was probably even more upsetting, so he had no choice but to start a campaign to bash her. I’m sure the plan was to driver her away—little did they know that it would mean losing Harry as well.
I agree. For all the people saying Will forces/wants Kate to be a wallflower, I feel like we forget every other woman he was interested in. Kate was the only blank slate out of the bunch. And even she used to be more fun. I don’t think William is forcing her to be lazy, she’s been work shy her whole life. I think he would have loved to marry someone like Meghan, but no one like Meghan is interested in him.
If Harry married Chelsy, Kate would look dull.
If Harry married Cressida, Kate would look dull.
I personally don’t believe Kate is dull, lazy yes, but she just projects the image of dullard because that is the role the palace and William want her to play. Boring, dull, ordinary.
Meghan could not play the nondescript role. Harry struggled with this role too.
There would have been such an obvious attempt at a modern makeover if the Palace was happy with Kate The Dull.
Should have read, ‘There WOULDN’T have been such an obvious attempt’
The palace is happy with dull Kate. It’s the rota that tries to write a exciting narratives about her for clicks. It’s why her PR and image do not match.
The Palace would be okay if she 1) worked and 2) didn’t appear like such an idiot when called upon to say even one sentence. This is not what they’d hoped for in a future future Queen Consort.
If the palace wanted Kate and Will to take on more engagements, tours and such they would do it. We can agree to disagree. I don’t see the palace pushing her to do work at all.
Kate IS old-fashioned and her wardrobe doesn’t help. Her outfits look like there were sourced from an attic at an estate sale after a little old grandma died. Megan’s modern/elegant style made Kate’s outfits look even weirder IMO.
@kaiser “It really makes me wonder if a second book isn’t coming, with all the details he and Carolyn Durand didn’t put into FF.”
He alluded to that in his latest etcanada interview where he said alot was left out of the book, some due to legal reasons and some because he felt it deserved a separate discussion. I honestly think the major hype and attention omid’s book received might trigger more people to take a similar approach & report fairly. He’ll definitely have more work coming his way as he has proven to have access to those close to the sussexs unlike the “my palace source” crowd. Here’s the full interview https://youtu.be/Zw5SjtbyhX0
Kate looks like she would be fun to relax with sometimes. If you watch some of her engagements, you’d see bits of her goofy personality here and there which she immediately stifles. Shame that she places so much emphasis on looking and sounding “regal”. She would have easily been more popular if they just dropped the tradwife image.
She isn’t required to be without personality to do her job, but often that ‘goofiness’ comes out at inappropriate times and places. Having never really worked, she has no idea how to act in a professional setting.
The RR have focused on Meghan being a brand, but the Cambridges have their own brand. They have positioned themselves to be what monarchists and casual royal watchers say they love about the monarchy and it is the pomp and ceremony, I think Kate loves pomp and pageantry events that she has to attend being a royal. This goes into the way their family is presented. This was especially visible at Charlotte’s christening and when they did their separate church walk with the Middletons a few years ago. She cosplays Diana and recreating events from William’s childhood, but lately it seems she is cosplaying the Queen. In her early years the Queen dressed more fashionably, but around her late thirties and forties she started dressing frumpy and her hairstyle was older and never changed. Kate is old fashioned, but that doesn’t mean that she is not cunning. I think people underestimate her. She is never going to be as forward thinking as Meghan who along with Harry, has a desire to be constantly learning about new ventures, new ways to communicate and wanting to share thoughts and opinions. Kate is all about position and keeping the status quo in place for her and her children.
” Kate is old fashioned, but that doesn’t mean that she is not cunning. I think people underestimate her. She is never going to be as forward thinking as Meghan who along with Harry, has a desire to be constantly learning about new ventures, new ways to communicate and wanting to share thoughts and opinions. Kate is all about position and keeping the status quo in place for her and her children.”
All of this especially the last sentence. Kate is desperate for the royal status whereas Meghan wanted the platform to promote her interests.
He called out Kate’s past era persona. Not old fashioned at all, just a cooked up persona she and her mother came up with.
Exactly, glad I’m not the only one seeing this.
Much better put. Yes, she definitely has a past era persona she presents to the public. I doubt she is like this in private.
Her wardrobe may be is old-fashioned but her botox, fillers, contouring techniques are up to date latest.