Okay, I missed this full excerpt from Robert Lacey’s Battle of Brothers: William and Harry – The Inside Story of a Family in Tumult in the Daily Mail. This is apparently the final excerpt provided to the Daily Mail (which I did reference yesterday), and I’m going to get some mileage out of it because this final piece is all about the Middletons and Kate and William’s courtship. Lacey leans heavily into the timelines created by Katie Nicholl, since Nicholl was Kate’s sugary hagiographer for years and years, before and after Will & Kate’s 2011 wedding. Still, Lacey adds some interesting details to the ever-evolving narrative of W&K’s early relationship. Some highlights from the University Years section:
Kate switched universities when William announced he was going to St. Andrews: “In August 2000, Kate’s A-level results arrived in the post — two As and a B — exactly the grades she needed to secure her place at her first-choice university, Edinburgh. This was where she and two of her best friends from Marlborough College, Alice and Emilia, had long planned to study, and the three girls had already travelled up to Edinburgh together to set up their lodgings. Out in Belize, where he was on military exercise with the Welsh Guards, Prince William received similarly welcome news — he’d achieved the A, B and C grades that he needed to secure his place at St Andrews to study history of art the following year. When this was made public, it was the first time the world knew of it. Kate immediately changed her mind about going to Edinburgh. She told Alice and Emilia that she wouldn’t be joining them after all.
Kate pursued like crazy: “She’d decided to apply to St Andrews to study history of art, like William — and also to take a gap year ‘off’. If she did manage to secure a place, she’d go up at the same time, and join the very same course, as the prince. ‘If’ was the operative word. The moment news of William’s intentions became known, applications to St Andrews rocketed by 44 per cent — with many of the new applicants being female and from America. But Kate persevered. That autumn, Kate wrote formally to Edinburgh to turn down her place. Then she made a new application to join the history of art course the following year at St Andrews.
At St. Andrews, Will & Kate were friends. Just a month or so into their first term together, they attended a party at which William was getting seriously hit upon by a pushy female student. The prince was being polite, but he couldn’t shake her off, and the girl didn’t get the hint — until Kate appeared out of nowhere behind him and put her arms around William. ‘Oh sorry,’ he said, ‘but I’ve got a girlfriend,’ and he and Kate went off giggling together. ‘Thanks so much,’ he mouthed to her.
The infamous semi-nude catwalk: “Only the very hottest chicks had been selected to parade — and Kate was determined to dazzle. At the last minute, she discarded the chunky knitwear she’d been given to wear over a see-through skirt and instead hoiked the skirt up above her boobs to create a mini-dress, with her black bra and knickers showing through. No wonder William was impressed. ‘Wow,’ he whispered to Fergus Boyd, ‘Kate’s hot!’ That very evening, at the aftershow party, William and Kate were seen kissing each other.
Kate was the only girl in a third-year rental with William & two other guys? Balgove House stood in its own grounds with some two acres of wild meadow surrounded by a sixfoot-high stone wall. Here Kate became Queen of the Aga, presiding over a household of three male students — and they quickly earned a reputation for hosting premier parties.
William didn’t want to be pressured: At the end of March 2004, news of the couple’s relationship finally broke. ‘Look, I’m only 22, for God’s sake!’ William exploded when asked about his marriage plans. ‘I don’t want to get married until I’m at least 28 or maybe 30.’ William was determined not to be prematurely pressured towards the altar as his mother and father had been. In interviews he insisted that he could not commit to marriage until he was 30 years old.
A summer breakup: In the summer of 2004, with just a year to go until his graduation, he rather welcomed the mischievous suggestion of his friend from childhood, Guy Pelly, that he might leave Kate at home and join his friend on a ‘boys only’ sailing trip to Greece. And Pelly made another suggestion: that the yacht might be staffed and operated by an all-female crew. Kate was not impressed, and made sure William knew it. ‘In that particular instance, we did split up for a bit,’ Prince William told ITV’s Tom Bradby in 2010. ‘We were both very young… We were both finding ourselves as such…’
They still lived together for their final university year: But they’d committed to go back to Balgove House for their fourth and final year, so the end of September 2004 found them reunited — and actually stronger, on reflection, for the time spent apart. The couple’s occasional dinner parties in their dining room with its rustic open fireplace and long mahogany table that seated no fewer than 17 became sought-after invitations. Kate had organised some bright red and white gingham curtains, while William’s contribution was a glass-fronted champagne fridge and a large oil painting of his royal grandmother who presided solemnly — though surely with a mild touch of satire — over festive gatherings.
Lacey basically just puts his own twist on what Katie Nicholl has documented endlessly. I think it’s interesting – consistently interesting – that no one knows when Will & Kate first met. Lacey suggests, as have other royal historians, that Kate met William before university, when he was at Eton and she was at Marlborough. Lacey also suggested that they possibly ran into each other on their gap year, where Kate was trying to follow him around before she stalked him at St. Andrews. Lacey doesn’t answer his own questions about Kate’s stalker vibe – I guess he can’t quite bring himself to say that the Future Future Queen repeatedly threw herself into William’s path over the course of several years, and that, oh right, he ended up marrying her because she played him like a fiddle, flattered him and simply waited until she was his only option. Such a love story!
Photos courtesy of WENN.
Lacey is ruthless. I’m beginning to wonder if this one is the Republican version of events. Lol.
Jk aside, the more I think on it, the more I think about what the differences between the two brothers. I think the biggest difference is that William seems to alienate anyone who actually wants to help outside of the aristo circles where it seems Harry has always had solid and genuine connections outside of them that wanted nothing in return: his time in the army, his incredibly close relationships with his previous nannies, and despite everything he still has a lot of people in his corner who support him and love him.
Yeah I was thinking I didn’t need to read this book and now I think I do. I feel like he’s not making any of them look good in the excerpts we have seen. I did buy the Norman Baker book ArtHistorian recommended yesterday too.
Yeah, he’s coming for the Cambridges hard. However, I doubt that he’s out to undermine the monarchy. I don’t know if he has any ulterior motives with this book other than depicting the BRF and especially the Cambridges more unvarnished than the sickeningly sycophantic drivel that the RRs and the royal bios generally serve up to the public. I suspect that this strategy was also made with an eye to the future sales. there’s more interest in juicy gossip than in sugary hagiography (only hard-core fans are interested in those kind of books). Generally, I suspect that he’s out to make money and scandal sells better.
@ArtHistorian, I bought Norman Baker’s book on your suggestion and I am really enjoying it so far. I’m just in the first couple of chapters but he’s already calling out royals from the past and making quite a big deal about how German they are. Thanks for suggesting this book!
I’m really looking forward to reading it myself when I’m not as strapped for cash as I am rn.
I don’t buy that this is a palace sanctioned book. They would have gone with one of their usual sycophants. I think, like everyone, he saw the rift between the brothers and wanted to explore what it was all about. I can only assume that some of his sources are gossipy ex palace courtiers. Still won’t buy it though (or any royal biographies). Waiting for Meghan’s memoirs when she is sixty
This definitely is the type of book the royals thought Finding Freedom was going to be.
Yeah, which is why they put out so much information telling on themselves. It’s like they didn’t know Harry and especially Meghan at all. Meghan will choose to go high and Harry seems to hate negative media games period and have avoided taking part in any of it. I don’t think these two will ever reveal what they know even years from now. They might let little snippets about themselves from that period drop like in the SA interview, but if people are waiting to see them name names, I think they will be disappointed.
I can’t help but wonder if Meghan and Harry took a two pronged approached to throw everyone off their sent. I can’t help but wonder if Harry assisted Mr Lacey.
Doubt it.
I think the brothers’ choice of partners has a lot to do with their different public images. Before Kate, William was the noble and beautiful future of the monarchy, but his treatment of her during their “courtship” made him look shallow, snobbish and cruel. Harry was a feckless manchild in the press for years, but his relationship with Meghan has revealed his maturity and emotional intelligence.
So Kate and Will have lived together since 2003, off and on? Yeah, she knew what she was getting into with him, and she was okay with it for the ultimate prize.
She knew exactly what she was getting, and she still wanted it. She was his convenient secret bedmate when he wanted to cheat on his girlfriend. She stood by while he went after other women, always willing to be called back for a weekend quickie if he was in the mood. Kate set her cap at Future Princess of Wales and that was it, no matter what.
Lacey leaves out all the scheming around Downe/Marlborough, chasing William’s friends, the friend who got her into William’s circle and into Club H.
“the friend who got her into William’s circle and into Club H”
You mean her ex boyfriend ‘Rupert’ who btw also attended the wedding.
Aristos are bizarre.
My question is how she knew all that “waitying” was gonna actually work. She put all her eggs in one basket so to speak. Obviously it worked out, but I’m sure several times it didn’t look like it would. I couldn’t do it. Not for a prince, nor for anyone. To each their own I guess.
@nina -I think the hope was that if it didn’t work out with William, she would at least marry someone else rich and titled. What’s the saying, reach for the heavens bc if you miss you’ll land among the stars? I think that was the plan for her and Pippa (In my opinion its pretty clear that Pippa’s goal was George Percy.)
Yeah, aristos are weird, but it’s even weirder to me that aristos are cool with dating someone who’s stalking them. I understand that Wills was out of options for marriage at some point and was under pressure to marry Kate because she’d been around for so long, but even at the beginning, he had no shortage of women to choose from at St. Andrews. Maybe they all seemed equally as stalkerish and Kate just had the best game?
Speaking as a woman, I think we’ve all at some point had that dude who just wouldn’t take no for an answer, and it’s creepy AF.
Is Princess of Wales a real title? How come Camilla doesn’t use it? Was that the queen’s title before she ascended?
And boy did she get “a prize” in him! My they are a match made in hades.
Honestly they really do deserve each other. They’re the perfect scheming, self-involved matches.
I don’t understand why people cannot just say it: She stalked him. Let’s pretend that this was Wills and he was pursuing Kate endlessly. That would give off some really alarming red flags and it should be the same here.
And if what Kate did for the fashion show is true, I seriously doubt she is the shy, passive, CEO who soothes WIlls. She knows exactly what she is doing: Securing that position in the BRF AT ANY AND ALL COSTS. I hope, when she sees her family in 40 years from now, she will still think it was worth it.
Yeah….she sounds like a total stalker. This is not some great love story. This was a battle of will and attrition. She dug her hooks in and hung on for dear life until she was the last woman standing. They deserve each other.
Let’s be real: that’s exactly what Wills wants. Kate’s just another sycophant to him.
Very well said. Now it makes sense why she resented her confident, accomplished and self made sister in law.
@NotSoSimpleTaylor, which leads to an interesting question: if Wills abhors the attention from the media and society and wants to be left alone – why is he OK with Kate’s behavior? That makes for an interesting question.
And I’m sure she was encouraged in all of this by her ambitious family. Creepy.
But why call her a “stalker” and call Meghan “ambitious”? Shorter time period yes, but both of them networked the hell out of connections to deliberately be put “in the path” of their princes. I say good for both of them, honestly.
@Jezebel because Meghan didn’t wait around and do nothing for a decade while she waited for her Prince boyfriend to marry her.
Kate wasn’t the only one who played the “I want to marry Prince William” and she’s the only one who won and stayed till the end but let’s not act like she (and her family) didn’t turn her life around for him to the point where she used to excuse herself from her job to go be with him. Would any of us have if we had a chance with a Future King at that age? Sure. But let’s call it how it is and say what it was.
Changing your university choice to catch a man is being a stalker and obsessive and if a guy did it to be near a girl it would be viewed far differently and much more negative. Add to that how Kate did nothing in her life that didn’t involve making herself available to William’s whims and you have a disturbing pattern.
Meghan did nothing of the sort. She lived a complete life before Harry and even got married and divorced before she ever met him. Her ambition related to her career and improving herself. There is an obvious difference here.
The Middletons walk a tightrope around media attention, have for years. They’ve done plenty of promoting of Kate through the years, with help from hapless RRs like Tanna. They had editors of the Mail on Sunday as their media advisors, telling them how to play it.
On the one hand, they loved photos of Kate papped with William, even it if was years of her drunk falling out of clubs. Because it established her publicly as being with him. They’d contact different paps to get copies of certain pics for hte family album.
They even used William to deflect from one of Uncle Gary’s many scandals. Tanna was the one who just happened to catch William stumbling drunk out of club, leaning on Kate, drunked ‘first kiss pictured’, then getting behind the wheel. Took Gary off the front page.
Only time Kate protested was when they went too far, letting Tanna take her pictures playing tennis on Duchy property. Middletons got ahead of themselves, wanted to ensure people saw Kate ‘belonging’ on Duchy property. Too far for William, he complained, so Kate went after Tanna.
@Jezebel I see a big difference between possibly setting up a blind date and rerouting your life for several years just to get in the same school/major.
Also meeting a prince was not the only goal or accomplishment in Meghan’s life. As a prior installment said, there is only one self made millionaire in the royal family and it’s Meghan.
@Jezebel – Meghan didn’t network to get in the path of a prince. Meghan networked because that’s who she is. She networked to help her career, to help her charity work, to promote her blog. She didn’t network to get married to a prince. Kate’s focus from the age of 18 on was marrying William. There’s a BIG difference there.
It’s not an accurate representation of events to say Meghan networked her way into the path of a prince. Her professional connections sometimes result in lifelong friendships (same with me and some of my colleagues). That one of her friends set her on a blind date with a prince is a happy coincidence. This is the most hardest way to end up with a prince. She was how old when they met? I’m supposed to believe that, at 35 years of age, a mixed race American divorcee decides she wants to marry a prince? Doesn’t sound plausible to me.
Myra – Exactly. I wouldn’t be surprised if Meghan was interested in meeting/networking with Harry. It wasn’t a secret they had similar charitable interests. I doubt either of them went into it expecting to meet “the one.”
@ Jezebel, you are wrong in regards to Meghan!! She did not play the game to get into Harry’s circle and stalk him to catch her Prince. They were set up on a blind date and hit it off!! She didn’t even know she was meeting Harry that night. She was only told that she would like this guy!! Please do NOT compare the two relationships!! Meghan met Harry through a blind date without knowing who she was meeting. Kate, and her mother, went to stalkerish extremes for Kate to end up as the last girl standing. Not only that, she ditched her life long dream to go to Edinburg, took a gap year and chose her major as the same as Wilileaks just to become within his circle. And during that gap year, stalked him throughout that year. No woman with ANY self worth and/or self respect would subject themselves to stalking a man for 10 years, be his booty call for about 6ish plus years and wait for a man to finally propose because you are the last woman standing. Keen was willing to be treated like trash by Wilileaks for close to a decade just to marry him.
@jezebel If Meghan had truly wanted to play The Great Game – as it’s called, they wouldn’t have left the royal family and would be ruthless in defending themselves. They’d be going low instead of going high? Meghan and Harry winding up together is the result of a solid group of friends and a series of happy accidents. I think a lot of people aristo and otherwise were long rooting for Harry to get away from his family. Most people over on the continent have a reaction of “Good for him,” or “He was too good for them anyways.”
Just remember this: Harry was smitten with Meghan from the get-go and wanted to pursue a relationship with her; William saw Kate as a convenient partner who would stick around when no one else was interested in him. The fact that Kate actively worked to maintain a relationship like that is pitiful. If Harry treated Meghan the same or their relationship fizzled out, Meghan would have no problem walking away. See the difference?
@Jezebel, at the risk of this being an unpopular opinion–I kind of agree with you. Kind of. I don’t think ambitious is quite the term for Kate or Meghan. I think I’m more in awe of Kate, because she really did risk it all for him didn’t she? From the age of what, 18? That’s a level of dedication and commitment that’s unparalleled. I couldn’t do it. I couldn’t risk that for a man who may or may not want to be with me. I would have lost my drive halfway through and gotten sick of the man. But bless her, she stuck with it, and she’s still staying on it. She might be a venal, petty, white b-tch Karen, but honestly, this is one part of it where I’ll give her very grudging kudos, if only because I could not have this sort of faith in myself that it would all work out.
Who says it has all worked out? She is expendable, and she lives with that knowledge every day. Her husband is out roaming the countryside with other women right now. When he wants to divorce her, he will.
You have the admire the perseverance. Her big Capricorn energy is why I’m convinced they’ll never split.
That’s kind of how I see it- if she was this focused on anything else she really wanted besides a man [like a great career position or role] and dug in and worked this hard for it, she would be praised for it. That being said, I can see the creepy stalker angle too, although I think many women, if they truly thought they had a legitimate shot at being the Future Future Queen, might have done some weird stuff too. The excerpt even says a lot of American women suddenly enrolled at St. Andrews, too.
I’ll bet those American women are the biggest Megzit freaks now–especially the pushy woman who wouldn’t leave Will alone (I wouldn’t be surprised, as an American myself, if she were American!). Those women came to St Andrews wanting to bag a prince, and then Meghan succeeds instead? Those women would be close to 40 now. I’ll bet a lot of them trade stories about being at St Andrews and how they “almost had a chance” with William. Which is ridiculous. I attended St Andrews as well, and the “Eton set” lived in their own world. They went to their own parties, weekended at each other’s country houses, and really kept to themselves. Middle class American girl from the midwest had no chance to enter those circles. I didn’t even know those type of people existed.
Fancy pants
I was a royal watcher way back because I was a Kate and princely romance. There was a story that came out through wills friends very early on like the limpet story and no one came out and said it was bs. That William had Kate sleep with his friend (which was a thing he did?) to see how “amendable “ she was to do what he asked. That whole elite friend circle seemed weird, but also as we know of the Toffs those things were normal too.
She clearly wanted it badly, and she did what it took to get it, so… congratulations to her for achieving FFQ status, I guess. That’s certainly not the life for me. I hope everybody who enrolled for a chance to meet William at least got a good education out of the deal.
WW, as I recall it, it was Kate being willing to sleep her way into William’s circle. Her family never really thought she’d get the top ‘prize’, so she and Pippa went after any aritso who would give them attention. When William started looking around for someone to cheat on his girlfriend with? One of his friends told him Kate was discreet and he’d already sampled the wares. So William started sleeping with Kate behind his girlfriends back, knowing that Kate wasn’t going to spill the beans.
@NASH: GET OUT. Is that actually true?????????? Then Rose shouldn’t be such a thorn in her side (pun intended).
Nota
Oh you’re right! I was a little hazy on the timeline, but yes. Kate slept with Wills friend and got recommended. Which isn’t far fetched. College kids.
Seraphina
I think the Rose story was big because the toffs aren’t Kate fans and vice versa. But they are neighbors and Kate wants to be 1 of them. Along with Wills cover up attempts making it all more public…
This is like when wills cheated on the dating years and it became public. Kate was angry people knew he cheated on her and how it made her look to stay. Not that he cheated.
They’ll split when William wants a different wife.
I agree. And unlike so many, I don’t see anything terrible about her pursuing him. She wasn’t some bat-shit crazy stalko. He could walk away and marry anyone else at any moment. She knew what and who she wanted, and she got it.
That being said, I think Lacey gives too much credit to her supernatural pursuing abilities. Clearly, there was some luck involved. Actually, luck is so much more important that hard work or good looks… Obviously, Kate was lucky.
Also,William created a the situation at St. Andrews and the “audition” parameters so to speak. Kate was the only one willing to jump through all of William’s hoops, everyone else walked away or ran away. He got routinely rejected by the women he truly wanted.
I agree. Why would they split? William can use her as the ultimate weapon, she’s clearly a schemer and will do whatever it takes to get to the throne (much like he himself is too). She’ll do his bidding without even being asked as we saw with how she treated Harry and Meghan. And yet she’ll sit by and let him play around with other women. And suffer those indignities willingly and quietly. Especially now that she got slapped down by the Toffs over trying to exile Rose.
It’s quite a beneficial (albeit gross) arrangement for William. He’s got a wife that will allow him to privately live as a single man and maintain his public image, kids, & household while does it.
The whole question of them splitting up hinges on the fact that either a) Kate decides she doesn’t want this anymore, or b) William deciding that going through the effort of divorcing Kate, potentially getting all of his private life dragged through the mud in front of the press, facing the inevitable comparisons to Charles and his divorce, all for one potentially more aristocratic British chippie, when he has a sweet deal right now where he can do what he wants with who he wants….yeah, I’m not buying that. I’m not ruling out that it can’t happen. But I don’t think William is at that frame of mind where he’s willing to risk all of that. That would require some significant character development that I can’t see happening.
William functions for himself and himself only. Kate is an embarrassment and a liability as a consort, given her inability to rise to the occasion and function in this role. And William hates nothing more than being embarrassed. If he really wants to move onto the world stage, Kate is the wrong consort – and he knows it.
All he has to do is play the ‘I was manipulated by the Middletons’ card. Charles will back him up, the royal machine will destroy the Middletons.
This book sounds brutal towards the royals. No one is being painted in a good light. No wonder the reporters have stopped talking about it.
I wish she put half as much effort into working as she did into landing and keeping this limp fish.
well, that was and still is a full-time work which pays nicely
Of course she stalked her prey, till she was the last woman standing. I hope it’s all worth it. What a waste of a life to be defined in this manner. I just find it sad that she has spent almost half her life with a man who sees her as nothing more than an accessory.
And there were always women around. During that fashion show William had an official girlfriend that was smart, well liked and voted something to the tune of “best a$s” in their halls. She had some self respect and got tired of William. Kate was the side piece numerous times and when she stood her ground they would break up.
I always think back to the decade of showing William this behavior is tolerable when the narrative becomes Kate having power over William or mutual respect.
So basically Kate was the puck bunny to William’s NHL player. Yeah that’s a power imbalance that will never change, not when an institution has been set up to prop his power.
Nic
The institution absolutely promotes this and won’t allow Kate to deviate if she ever chose to. But she knew this going on.
Remember when she was billed as the most prepared future royal ever? Did they really mean that because “she knew her place” sort of way?
@Wiglet Watcher
(First of all, hilarious name 😂)
But yeah just wanted to comment this is the second time i’ve heard William would cheat on his girlfriend with Kate. She was really willing to do anything to stay close to him. I guess maybe she never expected him to be faithful given how they took up. This is why I agree with others that she knew exactly what she was getting into when she married him. I don’t even think she thought too far ahead of the ring, or hoped that things would change after marriage. I really think she was just happy to bag a prince, and probably hoped everything would stay the same. I think Kate’s biggest frustration in that marriage and institution is that anything is actually expected of her other than catering to William.
Carly Massy-Birch? I googled her and she is/ was very very pretty.
She’s chosen to do this because she wants the Princess of Wales title. Chosen to put up with being the sidepiece and to agreeing to him having all those other sidepieces. She gets what she wants. Wealthy life, lazy schedule, staff to do all the work, endless shopping, and STATUS. She even got Baby #3 after the drunken partying with blonds incident, when William was on record only wanting two kids.
This is an arrangement where, as long as he isn’t caught publicly, she puts up with it. When he’s caught? She and the Midds get something big. That may be why he fought so hard to cover up the Rose affair. Public knowledge of that affair not only makes him the same as his father? It might mean a larger payout on the backend in any divorce settlement deal he made with Kate/Carole/Mike.
She might be clinging on until she’s princess of Wales, that way she can really be the successor to Diana, given that she never managed to live up to her star power. Also when Willie finally ditches her, she can still walk the streets and call herself a “princess”.
It’s a shame the title can’t go to a more worthy woman, but then again William doesn’t deserve a worthy woman.
@ Ennie, actually, he was dating Olivia Hint when Keen did the charity catwalk. Olivia Hunt is stunning!! My gosh, out of all of his ex girlfriends, she is by far the most stunning!! He dumped her once he saw Keen on the catwalk. What a POS he is.
“When he’s caught? She and the Midds get something big.”
Yes, after the Rose incident, Kate received a special order from the Queen and another glittering pair of earrings belonging to Diana. In a strange way, Kate holds some power: she’s integral to his wholesome image. The man who married his university sweetheart, and sired three adorable children. Strangely, that’s all he needs or wants to do.
So unless William decides to actually do something, Kate can tear his image to shreds in an instant. As for her, she’s the mother of the future king, she won’t ever lack for anything.
The royals can tear Kate and the Middleton/Goldsmiths/Matthews to shreds in an instant. All William has to do is say he was a vulnerable orphan, manipulated by the scheming Middletons. No one likes the Middletons, outing their shady business deals and weird treatment of William would seal the deal.
If Kate and the Midds go quietly, the royals don’t destroy them. They put up a fight? All the Midds dirty laundry is aired.
Kate will only get the Princess of Wales title if Charles makes William Prince of Wales. Not an automatic title.
My guess is William will only get Prince of Wales if he supports Charles in Camilla being made Queen Consort.
By the way, Camilla IS Princess of Wales but chooses not to use the title put of respect to Diana. Instead Camilla uses the female consort form of Charles’s second title I.e. Duke of Cornwall.
It’s a turn-off for me when a guy is coveted by many. But there are many girls like Kate, and they will continue to exist.
There’s nothing wrong with ladies doing the pursuing but if you’re pursuing a petulant POS and ignoring your own development as a person and worker, that’s just … not good Kate. But you do your ‘fairy tale’, Kate.
I see your point, but at the same time, there are no ideal husbands (or wives). It’s all about what you will be ok with in your partner. I look at my girlfriend’s partners and think that I would never, while they are, I’ve no doubt, thinking the same about mine :))
Definitely nothing wrong with a woman pursuing a man, but there’s a real difference between chatting up a man at a party / asking for his number and changing your university plans on account of a guy you don’t even know.
@bettyrose, I disagree. Both are very prestigious universities and the difference would’ve been minimal. It’s not like she was an aspiring art historian who had mapped out a very clear path for herself, and then changed it completely. Ultimately, both her and Pippa aimed to meet and marry well, not obtain a profession at school. Actually, a lot of students switch universities because they want to build a better network, not gain an academic knowledge.
Sure there’s nothing wrong with her changing universities for whatever reason, and yes St. Andrews had plenty to offer her academically (if that were her motive) but didn’t she change universities, then plan a gap year just to enter at the same time as Wills, and try to follow him on the gap year? All in hopes of *marrying* a guy she didn’t or only barely knew? A guy who himself had no interest in marriage at that age. You really don’t see anything wrong with that?
If a guy did the same that Kate did then it would be viewed as creepy. Sure William had the choice to tell her to go away, but it says a lot about Kate that she had so little self respect that she tolerated being treated so badly for years.
@ BettyRose, I agree with you. Keen changed her entire college plans once she found out that he was going to St. Andrews. She declined her acceptance to Edinburgh, as she and 2 or 3 girlfriends had planned on attending together for years, which she had been accepted and had her dormitory all lined up. Once word hit that Wilileaks was headed to St. A., she declined at Edinburgh, applied to St. A. for the following year of admissions, and took the gap year to stalk Wilileaks. I find her choices to be of nothing but the pure path to seek out Wilileaks, with no desire towards a path to her own happiness, unless she relied on her happiness to be a FFQ, and that she was so shortsighted that nothing was of importance other than to meet and marry Wilileaks. I just find it disturbing that in this day and age, a young ladies only pursuit is to bag a rich aristocratic or rich man. That’s just my opinion though and I pushed my children not to marry until they were in their 30’s, but that was my parenting, one son and one daughter.
Wills is long known for surrounding himself with yes people. Would you expect his wife to be any different? wanted a sycophant for a wife. He wanted someone willing to turn the other way and to put up with his behavior. He has what he always wanted. I suspect Kate is no longer happy but Wills would continue this way forever and probably wants to.
This is the first time I think I’ve realized they lived in a full, huge estate during uni. For some reason I thought I remembered it as being reported they had a small house near campus.
She totally just mothered him, was dependable, took care of everything, and let him go out, knowing he’d come back to all she did for him, so that he liked having her around not for who she was but for all that she gave him. It would be sort of heartbreaking if they weren’t two people who deserve exactly what they got. Money can buy you a lot of things, but it’s true that it can’t buy you real happiness.
“he liked having her around not for who she was but for all that she gave him.”
Imagine being married to someone like that. It’s incredibly sad. Her life must be quite lonely. I almost feel bad Kate but this is what she signed up for, so *shrugs*.
In some fairness to Kate, are we really going to assume she has the self-awareness to know about her situation, let alone why she’s lonely? I highly doubt it. Plus, a lot of people do exactly what she did, because a lot of people genuinely think that’s what love is. They think it’s being loved for what you do and provide, not for who you are as a person, intrinsically. In Kate’s situation, maybe she feels this is as much as she can hope for, and she’s content with that.
I don’t think she’s got self-awareness, no but I do think sometimes, questions are asked within her own psyche/subconsciousness on whether or not this was all worth it, even if she doesn’t realise it. And especially when she sees her brother-in-law treat his wife well.
Or Kate is just someone that wants to be financially taken care of and doesn’t care to give her life or platform more substance. Her appearance gets top priority. That’s what some choose and honestly, what’s wrong with that? Too bad Kate chose to be lazy on the taxpayers money and waste a platform that would only require her to do minimal work to make a decent global impact.
He had Mummy Carole to mother him on the weekends and holiday and then he had the younger, hotter version of Mummy Carole (Kate—I see her as basically being molded completely and pupeteered by her mother so she can be Carole’s second chance) to mother him during the week at school. Bonus is that Kate also filled his sexual needs, not just his mothering needs.
I think will sees Carole as a stand-in for the mother that he lost and I think he sees Kate as a copy of/stand-in for Carole. I wonder if seeing her in a quasi mother role to him, makes him feel like she’s Diana and he’s Charles. And Charles cheated on Diana…and it all would have been fine if Diana hadn’t made such a big deal out of it and went to the press and ended up instigating the divorce and then her own death (in his eyes). So he’s sort of recreating that with Kate, but in this version of events, Kate just deals with it. She doesn’t go to the press, she doesn’t challenge her husband, she doesn’t leave and divorce him, and no one dies leaving William feeling abandoned. Thus, he and his kids are provided with the “stable family life” and “perfect family image” that he always wanted but didn’t get because Diana wasn’t okay with the cheating and manipulation.
I’ve always wondered how he could cheat so much and so obviously and risk his family life if he was really so scarred by his parents’ relationship and divorce… but if he’s trying to re-create it all and have it end (or not end) the way he wants this time, then it makes a little more sense. Carole acts as stand-in for Diana as mother, then Kate takes over and stands-in for Carole as mother when Carole isn’t around. Kate=Diana, Will=Charles, but in this re-make the child Will doesn’t lose anything or anyone.
The 17-person dinner table was news to me. Good lord I can’t imagine living this kind of life in uni. No ramen and hot pockets for them! Even for the aristo set it’s a bit much. Lady Di’s father bought her an apartment when she moved to London, and while it was in a very nice neighborhood and quite generous for a 19-year old, it wasn’t some overly ostentatious pile and she shared it with friends and did the chores together.
This is nothing new to anyone in the UK – she was known as Waity Katie in the press for years before they married and everything stated above has been in the media before.
His friends were vile about her and her family and clearly did not want him to be with her. She was just as intent to be with him and got him in the end. As he chose to marry her, I guess he was happy to get a wife who would put up with him. They deserve each other.
The Doors to Manual stories and ‘poor little rich middle class girl’ came from the Middletons PR people, not from William’s set. His set did call her the Limpet, which as we’ve seen, was a title she earned.
my god, Kate sounds like such a creepy stalker…
Were there any explosive revelations coming out of this book as promoted by the Daily Mail and the royal rota? Not really. I think it was an attempted rebuttal to Finding Freedom seeking to tell the Royal Family’s, courtiers’ and the press’ side of the story but it fell flat. Rebecca English stopped promoted the excerpts midway through, probably because it didn’t really put her principles, William and Kate, in a good light and it just rehashed old tabloid stories. Finding Freedom did rehash a lot of tabloid stories as well but I think it was more successful in explaining some of the stories, why they were put out by the palace and it humanised Meghan and Harry. This book did nothing to improve the image of the Royal Family and the courtiers and seems like a waste of time. We will only get the true story of what went on if Harry and Meghan decide to write their own books.
Finding Freedom was a global best seller and raked in big dollars internationally. I guess all the Royal biographers are trying to emulate how well FF sold worldwide. I wonder how well this book will sell worldwide?
The Royals are already trying to bury it so we’ll see.
Yeah, none of this is anything new.
Okay so I take it back. Kate has properly copped it today. Not even Carole would allow her daughter to be humiliated like this for a ring. And this account is thoroughly humiliating. It makes Kate read as a power hungry doormat. She wanted that ring at ANY cost. This is not LOVE.
This looks like the revenge of the Courtiers…. I am wondering how many stuck their oars in?
This book is messy as hell and makes the BRF like a bunch of w*nkers.
It could be the courtiers. I’m sure that they look down on Kate because she isn’t of aristocratic blood. It’s interesting that this is another narrative that the BM and Meghan-haters want to force onto Meghan; that she stalked Harry. They never know how to reply when you point out that Meghan had an actual job while they were dating so Harry went to see her in Canada.
I disagree, she allowed William to publicly humiliate both Kate and the whole Middleton family for years, but yeah I don’t think the Mids leaked to Lacey – am waiting for dirt on the rest of them dropping.
None of this about Kate is new – her changing Uni and subsequent stalking of him around St Andrews was well documented. Several people who knew her during that first year confirmed that once she arrived her only goal was to ‘get’ him.
It all makes you wonder what has gone down or is still going down behind the scenes.
Yeah I’m of the belief that the sources for this is the courtiers doing – more specifically CH courtiers. I’ve said it before but I guess the courtiers were tired of taking the most hits in Finding Freedom (the worst anyone in the BRF takes is Kate being cold to a friendship with Meghan and William being snobby which is not anything like being a massive rage monster) so they were more than willing to place the blame on the family instead of themselves.
It could explain why BP sent the book back – they had probably heard through the grapevine what the CH courtiers were up to and didn’t want any part of it when they’re bosses start point fingers at who may have spoke.
Powerhungry but not a doormat. Plenty of stories of Kate bullying others, being controlling, being the Prickly Princess. And let’s not forget her public mistreatment of Meghan. Plus the Middleton family spending four years attacking Meghan in the press. Carole’s infamous interviews being one of those occasions, going after Meghan with the ‘being royal isn’t just about giving speeches’ comment.
I don’t understand why people keep thinking this stuff is “revenge” as if it’s in any way carefully orchestrated or something. It’s not. These stories and rumours have been floating around since day 1. Everyone knew what Kate and Carole was up to in those circles. And many of them, particularly the old school aristocracy, didn’t care for it, because they generally don’t care for commoners trying to do the same sorts of things that aristocrats have themselves been doing for centuries.
But there is no hidden agenda here to “bring Kate down.” This is just how Kate and Carole have always been viewed by the aristocratic set. They bring up these stories to remind her of what her “place” is in their hierarchy. She might be the FFQ, the mother of a future king, and Carole might be the grandmother of a future king, but at the end of the day, they’re all still commoners who the aristocrats see as having weaseled their way into the fold.
The stories are old but why would Lacey, promoted as royal historian, put them in his book? Did he talk to the same people who spoke to Tatler? I still stand by my theory that Charles has had a hand in this, albeit indirectly because he’s not that dumb. Clearly this book is taking down William and Kate and their perfect love story perfect family image. William is anger bear and Kate is clingy stalker with these excerpts. Not a great look for them.
I agree with you Nic that Charles has a hand in this book but the question I keep asking myself is, why? This hurts Charles and makes him look weak and like a bad parent. He had to have had a reason. We all know Charles is better at playing the long game than William. So what does he have to gain by letting his reputation be chipped away at and allow all of this to get out there? This information could hurt Charles as much as it hurts William and it looks bad for the monarchy. Do you think the people or parliament want someone who is abusive at best and a sociopath at worst as King? What’s to stop the UK from scrubbing the system right now with that information?
@Nic919, he put them in the book, because they are the background to the topic he’s talking about in the book, which is the relationship between William and Harry. It’s not possible to talk about that without talking about the sorts of lives they’ve had in comparison to each other, of which Kate & her relationship with William is a huge part.
I imagine he pursued the line of inquiry about Kate and William’s relationship to show how the two brothers are different from each other, didn’t expect much, and was pleasantly surprised by the amount of depth that was there. If those stories weren’t getting much coverage before, it’s likely because there wasn’t a market for them in the press, not because people stopped talking about or forgot those issues in the first place.
And of course he spoke to the same people who were interviewed for the Tatler article. The aristocratic world is a small one. Everyone knows everyone else, and everyone gossips about everyone else, and all the relationships are deeply incestuous on some level (friends dating other friends’ ex’s etc). That’s just a fact.
That’s the reason why these stories have remained so consistent over the decades we’ve heard them. It’s because they’re all coming from the same people, and they’re all offering the same truthful observations on what happened between William and Kate. If Lacey sourced his information from somewhere outside of the same crowd these stories have always come from, we’d know, because the texture of those stories would be different.
The aristocrats don’t need prompting from Charles to be petty, vicious gossips. I doubt Charles interests himself very much in perpetuating a story that doesn’t star him as a sympathetic saviour somewhere. This does nothing for his image. So why would he bother?
Whoever talked about this to Lacey did so likely because this story is the truth, or as close to an approximation of it as we can ever get. The truth doesn’t need an agenda. Lies, on the other hand, do. Which is why they tried so desperately hard to push the whole Kate embiggening stuff so much a while ago. There’s a reason why the messaging on that is just so inconsistent. It’s because it’s not based on any reality. It’s contrived, and you can afford to be malleable with that sort of thing. The truth, on the other hand, doesn’t change. It just exists. And it’s the same every time.
“I imagine he pursued the line of inquiry about Kate and William’s relationship to show how the two brothers are different from each other, didn’t expect much, and was pleasantly surprised by the amount of depth that was there.”
Exactly. You can tell the difference b/t the two brothers by how they treat their wives and fiancées. Throughout their courtships, William was a cad to Kate while Harry was solicitous of Meghan. If the two brothers’ relationship faltered, who has a track record of being an unbearable jerk?
Yes, I see CH, behind this. Charles & Camilla must dislike the one-two shuffle Will and Kate carry off.
Another snippet of Guy Pelly just being absolute garbage.
If they actually did that trip, I would love for any crew member to come forward and speak.
tiffany they are just smearing Guy, because of course the prince would never be the one to lead anyone astray. they always pin the friends as the slackers and jesters.
Guy has always been a scapegoat for William. Notice how This more friendly with Harry these days?
Stalky McStalkerton was a stalker, then. God no wonder she has zero personality if she’s been on this bullshit for nearly a decade and a half.
Also notice how there are no details of how Kitty got into St Andrews. There was a 44% uptick in applications and she wasn’t even on a waiting list and there would have been ZERO chance of a clearing list.
I am going to guess that Pimp Mama Carole via Uncle Gary made a little donation to the St Andrews History of Art Library or even Art collection. She was a nouveau riche unknown nobody so that place would have been VERY hotly contested.
In fact even getting into Marlborough with no family background would have been challenging. Especially as Kate changed school mid-way as she was being bullied at her old school where they called her ‘council house Kate’.
Why did they call her council house kate?
I believe it’s cause her mother was born in a council house.
If we’re talking about the Marl bullying then, Nope. That rumor was debunked heavily by everyone there at the time and never confirmed by the Midds at all. It was a tabloid leak. And the year and month timelines with events and context as to why she was called that or bullied were proven false.
And even now the constant theme is Kate was always loved, popular and maintains friendships from her schools.
@WW nope the bullying happened pre MB hence why she moved to MB. It was a cheaper less prestigious public school in Berkshire.
I’m amused that the applications went up 44 %, with mostly (American) girls applying.
Were the princes like a boy band, with huge following all over the world?
Or why did that happen?
I would so want to be present at one of these conversations: Dad, you know I applied to Yale and got in, but there’s a one in a few thousand chance of me shagging prince William, so can you pay for a college in England instead? Thanks, love you!
Boy band, yes something like that lol
There has always been a fairly large contingent of American students at St Andrews (although when I was a kid a lot of them were postgrads who came to study divinity, lol). Even now, 20 years after William started, their international numbers are huge and North America is their biggest market – not sure if it’s bigger than their Chinese one, but it’s got to be close. There literally were hundreds of American women who came that year thinking they’d marry the prince and the publicity has paid off since.
(Also, it’s actually not necessarily more expensive to go to uni in Scotland than it is in the US; tuition for an undergrad course this year averages $32,000 and it’s probably easier to get into St A than it is to get into some of the US colleges, especially if you’re going out-of-state.)
Yeah I have always wondered that too, esp as she had already been accepted into Edinburgh.
What people forget was that she had met William before they went to Uni together, she was on the fringes of his circle via Emilia (I think that was her name – someone from Marlborough). I think she knew in advance of the public announcement where he was going and what course he was doing and applied only turning down Edinburgh once she got into St Andrews.
From my own experience with Uni clearing is that it all happens a year in advance and intake would have been closed or full for that years course. Which leads me to think she knew in advance and stalked him accordingly.
I wonder how she a) got into St Andrews and more importantly b) got placed in the same dorm. There’s NO WAY that happens coincidentally. I’m thinking donation to St Andrews as well. She would have to be in the same dorm to have access to him. The dorms at St Andrews are pretty widely spaced apart, as small as the town is. There’s no “dorm section”. people pretty much socialized with people in their own dorms. People took their meals in the dorms, not a central dining hall.
My guess is that William and all his Eton friends were slated to St Salvators (he would want to have his friends in his dorm with him), and that Marlborogh friends of his milieu were also slated to that dorm, and Kate could finangle her way in that way. She was in their social circle from Marlborough, so she could then spend time with William. Some rando American wouldn’t “happen” to be roommates with William or any of his friends–that would have been impossible. Unlike many students in American colleges, William was cloistered by people from his own set. he never socialized with anyone outside of that set, so never really took the opportunity to really get to know different types of people, as Harry did in the army. All of William’s friends are white and upper class, even now. He has no curiosity about people outside of his own tightly knit circle. This makes him a bad monarch to be as well, at least in the 21st century. Many other European monarchs married foreign women, or women outside their own aristo circle, but not in the UK.
From the excerpt I learned that the St Andrews underwear catwalk thing was supposedly a 9/11 charity event, classy
Tourmaline, it was the other way round.
lanne – absolutely agree about the cloistering bit, not to mention the father of Carly Massy-Birch went on record to the press saying that representatives of the BRF came to his house to “make sure we weren’t Muslims or anything” (actual quote) when it leaked that William was seeing Carly.
The bullying story has been debunked by the school, along with the ‘put feces in her bed’. Kate was a day student, never had a bed.
Here’s another take. She and Carole knew she had no chance of getting into Marlborough with the huge uptick in applications. So she goes to Downe, close to home. Carole wrote letters to the aristocratic families, asking them to force their daughters to be friends with Kate. Aristos responded with, hell no. Bullying fiction is born, oh they refuse to be nice to Kate, poor little rich middle class girl. And with that bullying fiction created, plus some money, Kate gets an acceptance to Marlborough a year later. Once the initial rush was over and she had a better chance of getting in.
Okay, but are we really going to act like classism is not a thing though? Especially when the Middletons are concerned? I don’t think the bullying story is true either, but frankly, the Carole-writing-letters-to-aristocratic-families seems like a bullshit fanfic spin from the aristocratic side imo. It’s outrageously stupid in its own way, and it reeks of the sort of dismissive attitude people in that circle would take when called out on their closed-ranks snobbish behaviour. I don’t buy the whole poor little middle class girl story line either, but let’s not pretend like it’s a choice between one extreme or another. It doesn’t have to look like a bullying PSA in order for it to be an uncomfortable situation.
We got a full taste of what the aristocrats really think of Carole in that Tatler article–they see her as a tacky, vulgar, nouveau-riche upstart because she vacuums her couches of dog hair and mops her floors. Why are we taking their word as gospel on anything when they’ve openly proven themselves to be nowhere near as nice and polite as they make themselves out to be?
It’s pretty hard to feel bad for the classicism that was lobbed against the Middletons when they have used that same tool against Meghan and others themselves. They wanted to be in that repulsive system and like converts have been zealots in enforcing the same horrible attitudes against others.
@A Yes the classism is horrible and the aristos are terrible people but these are the same people that Kate and her family wanted to be accepted by. Any self respecting person would have bowed out after hearing all of it but they didn’t and they haven’t because they want to be part of William’s world that bad.
And not to mention, they’ve spent almost 2 decades trying to erase their middle class roots. They don’t want to be middle class nor are they proud of it.
@Nic919, @Sofia, both things can be true at once though. It’s not either/or, and one doesn’t cancel the other. Kate and the Middletons can be struggling under the full weight of classicist snobbery lobbed at them from the aristocrats, for which there is frankly zero excuse. It’s not as if all of them aren’t status obsessed social climbers themselves, they only think it’s bad when the peasants do it. So fuck them.
They are also people who displayed what was probably a far, far greater deal of snobbery in their own right to others. And they only capitalize on their middle class status when it benefits them, and don’t mention it when it doesn’t. But the fact that they do this doesn’t change the first part of the situation here, and it does not mean that that sort of classism was “deserved” in some way. Prejudice of that variety is never deserved. There is no excuse for it. There should be no exceptions made for it.
Because at the end of the day, being permissive of such attitudes because “some people deserve them” is precisely what allows such attitudes to be perpetuated against people who don’t deserve them at all. There are plenty of legitimate reasons to dislike Kate and the Middletons, but let’s start holding them accountable for those actual reasons, which would be far more useful than engaging in attitudes that are only really harming society at large.
Classism is bad but racism is worse and Kate participated in a campaign against Meghan that was racist, sexist and xenophobic. The classism she experienced in entering the family does not excuse her behaviour or Carole’s behaviour toward Meghan. She victimized someone else. Someone who was pregnant at the time. Kate did not experience anything remotely close and it all happened before the engagement. I am not going to feel sorry for someone who victimized others because there is not justification for her behaviour toward Meghan. Kate has been a rich white girl given all the privilege in the world and while the tabloids were mean to her, she did much worse to her own sister in law. It’s like excusing an abuser because they were abused as kids.
Regarding the supposed bullying —
* It didn’t occur at Marlborough.
* It didn’t happen to Pippa, who was a year younger and attended at the same time. Pippa also received on a full sports scholarship.
* Most likely, the bullying of Kate did not happen at all. Probably, the Middletons (either b/c of Pippa’s scholarship or an influx of $$ from Uncle Gary/Party Pieces, etc.) could now afford two girls at Marlborough. They found out midterm and looked for an excuse to move Kate over to Marlborough.
Migionette I am Scottish. Does not work like that here. She actually got into St Andrew’s because she had good grades.
Kate is pretty average on the attractiveness scale, so saying only “the hottest chicks” got in that fashion show doesn’t bode well for everyone else.
“The sloaniest chicks”
fixed that for you….
LOL – yeah she is very much the typical ‘sloany’.
She was an attractive woman back then but would i say she stood out in a crowd, no. However, looking at these older photos, she looked good with her hair darker.
The pics for this article are a nice reminder of how Sloaney she used to be. This may have also been Sloane Ranger cosplay, though. She doesn’t seem to have ever developed a sense of style or anything else, always aping the groups she so desperately wanted to accept her.
Hottest for St Andrews, maybe. It’s not a very diverse crowd. The story reads like a bad fan fiction in any case. I wouldn’t take it too seriously
A ‘type’ for sure, but I do think she was quite pretty, a nice athletic build plus she has height, which looks impressive. She also dressed way better, am always surprised when I see early pictures at how good she looks.
She wore that same white coat on their Ireland trip early this year. It was the only thing I recall liking at all from that trip.
What! Kate is incredibly beautiful to me. Of course royal women aren’t known for their looks so she stands out there, but i always thought she was generally really pretty.
I honestly think that she’s much more striking in person. Not pretty in the way the word is intended to describe, but like, most people in this world aren’t. But that doesn’t stop them from being attractive, or from you being drawn to them.
I think Kate, when she bothers with it, has a great personality. She seems like she could be a lot of fun, and probably still is, and I can see how men would gravitate to that.
I get the vibe that she’s probably fun to be with too. I can’t seem to like her because of the stuff with Meghan, but that bitterness aside (and the social climbing I guess), she seems pretty relaxed and fun. I see glimpses of that during some engagements where she breaks character a bit, whether that’s rushing to hug her midwife, or joking around.
A great personality? After all she’s done these past years her personality seems to be that of a mean girl. She doesn’t seem to have a great personality at all, quite the opposite.
I’ve gone completely off her after her treatment of meghan (the leaking, the white dress to meg and harrys wedding, her sulky face and side eye at said wedding, the lies about meghan making her cry that was debunked by the aides who were present, her lack of defense when meghan was being butchered by the press throughout her pregnancy,the recycling of clothes when meghan was still building her duchess wardrobe, the CW behavior, the podcast where she shaded meghan not doing the simba presentation after giving birth, the copykate behavior, the flybe stunt, and uncle gary revealing exactly what she thinks of meghan, I can go on and on).
But I shouldn’t be surprised. This is the same woman who wore a chanel bag to a church walk after the designer of said bag was brutal in his comment about her sister.
She just doesn’t care. She’s not a girls girl and never has been, in fact, she sees other women as competition. Even her own sister it seems.
Yeah I bet she has a fun personality – with men!
When Kate was younger, she was good-looking in an approachable way. I am not surprised that college guys would find her hot.
Yeah I remember hearing about that from a British friend of mine. How she and her mother worked to get her close to William so she could become a candidate for his future consort/wife. How it was all planned out by her mother etc. Years ago, Kate would not have been allowed to marry him, it was unheard of for royals to marry commoners. At one point I don’t even think it was legal because royalty either had to marry people from other royal houses or from the nobility. She will never be an actual queen of England, she will be like Queen Elizabeth’s husband, a consort.
IMO: the match of Harry and Meghan was more of a natural progression than William and Kate.
Kate was not the first commoner to marry in in recent memory.
I’m talking about how it was over a 100 years ago and more. Not recent memory where the rules they had are now relaxed. I think it all changed when Queen Elizabeth’s uncle married the American divorcée and had to give up the throne. Choosing love over the throne etc.
So, who do y’all think Will would have married— if they would have had him? The chick with 3 last names? Jecca?
The one with the 3 last names who is Cressida’s half sister – he apparently had it bad for her but she turned his down, repeatedly.
And she turned around a second later and started dating and eventually married Richard Branson’s son.
Edit: Thanks for the clarification Sofia. 🙂
@Tiffany: Sam Branson is Richard Branson’s son, not nephew
I don’t know. Personally, I don’t think any of those relationships would have lasted, even if those women had decided to be with William for the long haul. I think William would have been unfaithful to any woman he “settled” with. And I also think that, in the long run, it would have been William himself who would have been bored with any of those other women, because I doubt any of them would have put up with him or acquiesced with his behaviour like Kate does. They would have pushed back at some point, and he would have gotten fed up and broken things off is what I believe. And I think a lot of those other girls knew that, which is why they turned him down.
Jecca didn’t want him and he would have dropped Kate in a hot second if Jecca had shown any interest that way. William skipped his cousin’s wedding to attend Jecca’s brothers wedding, leaving Kate to meet the queen for the first time on her own. Years later he’s leaves his wife and kids over Easter to attend Jecca’s own wedding.
Kate’s style in the early years also morphed to the earthy girl safari style that Jecca wore at the same time. That was no coincidence either.
She didn’t want him, but that’s beside the point. IF she had reciprocated, and IF she had wanted him, or IF Isabella Calthorpe had wanted him, and they had gone the whole way, gotten married, had children etc–the chances are that William would have still cheated on them. He would cheat even if he married the exact person he wanted to marry, because that’s what cheaters do. They cheat. It doesn’t matter who the partner is.
If William had married any other girl aside from Kate, if anyone else had wanted him, we’d be looking at a divorce right around now, for sure. The papers would be full of headlines about how unfaithful William was. He wouldn’t have made it work with any other girl except Kate, because no other girl would put up with that sort of prolonged disrespect. Kate did. And she still does. That’s why they’re married.
Deleted
That’s a fair point. William has never had to be faithful and only Kate was prepared to tolerate that.
In his 20’s, I’m not sure Will was a ‘confirmed’ cheater. Men cheating was definitely the behavior modeled by Charles and Phillip. What might have happened with a woman other than Kate depends on whether Will changed at all because of being cared about by someone he respected and admired, who hopefully had a family that didn’t just kiss his behind for their own ends, but had solid values and interests, and opened his mind to other ways of thinking and behaving. Someone with her own life direction might have helped him discover something of his own for a more fulfilling life, if he was open to it. Otherwise, I agree any other relationships were ultimately doomed. With the right person though, he might have decided, as people do, not to live his life the way his father (and mother) had, knowing the unhappiness it caused him and his brother.
This is what happened to Harry, in a way, though for him self-reflection and change was triggered by other factors. The result though, was attracting someone like Meghan, who reinforces his best qualities.
Whether or not Will is interested in or even capable of changing who he is at this point, he’s married to Kate, and has a family. His choices are not as simple as they were in his 20’s.
“whether Will changed at all because of being cared about by someone he respected and admired”
It’s not any one person’s job, let alone a woman’s job, let alone a prospective partner/spouse’s job in particular, to “prompt” any human being into changing for the better. People have to come to that revelation on their own. William had to decide for himself that he wanted to be a better human being. He has not done that. He didn’t do it then. The fact that he didn’t bother working on himself has a direct impact on the sorts of relationships he pursued.
He is not an emotionally mature person. People like that don’t pursue relationships with people they “admire and respect”, because they often lack the capacity to admire and respect anyone except themselves. And anyone with enough self-esteem and a strong sense of self is not going to be interested in being with William in the first place. They wouldn’t have patience for his behaviour, first of all, and second of all, they’d know full well that people are not projects, and no woman who knows what she deserves would consent to wasting her adult life trying to push a 20-something man into finally growing up, when there are better options out there. This is not Kate’s responsibility either. She is his wife, not his mother, not his nanny. It’s William’s job to cultivate all the characteristics you outlined. He’s almost 40 years old.
Harry had been laying the foundation and the groundwork for his maturity for a while before Meghan came into his life. It was because he had been taking the steps to get to a much better, healthier place, that he is in a relationship with Meghan today. If he hadn’t done this work, would Meghan have been interested? A woman like her, who’s dealt with enough shitty cads for a lifetime probably, who again, knows what she is worth, would not have given Harry the time of day. She loves him because he’s done the work, and he does the work every day, and he does it by himself, for himself. He took responsibility for his life, which is the only way such change is sustainable.
William can change, and it’s precisely because he has a wife and a family that he should do so in the first place. To act like he’s on lock down because he’s married is just bizarre. Why would that make his life more complicated, unless she’s behaving like crabs in a bucket and trying to drag him down with her? I doubt that’s happening–that seems more like William’s MO to me, personally. He has a great deal more agency than anyone gives him credit for. He chooses not to use it for his own betterment.
@A, I don’t disagree with your general philosophy here. But to be clear, I wasn’t saying it’s a woman’s (or anyone’s) job to fix her partner (or anyone else), or to “prompt” them to change. In fact, I was specifically trying NOT to say that. What I mean is, the experience of being cared for by someone a person values and respects can lead to that person feeling they are worthy of being valued, which can pave the way for them to examine themselves, and make changes on their own.
About Harry, I basically said what you did, he’d already done a lot of work before meeting Meghan. But I also said, she reinforces his best (IMO) qualities, and I’m talking about the same dynamic. Supposedly he’s wanted out of the RF bubble for years, and had the money to leave. But he didn’t. Now, he stood up to TQ, the Firm, and walked – because with Meghan he found the additional confidence and belief in himself to know he could forge a different future. People in relationships affect each other, and in healthy relationships, affect each other in healthy ways. (That’s not the same as actively working to change someone – usually a wasted effort).
As far as Will is concerned, IMO Carole and the Middletons are the worst influences someone with his qualities could have had. So, I pondered what could have been different for him to evolve in a more positive/healthier (?) way. I thought, an experience with different people in his mid-20’s or so, when young adults are still relatively vulnerable and defining what they will become, might have had a different result. I disagree with your statement that emotionally immature people lack the capacity to admire and respect anyone except themselves. In any event, in Williams’ case, he’s clearly valued at least one person for a long time – Jecca. Anyway, this is all just a theory about what might have been, when he was younger, not now.
I need to get going on a very busy day, so the last bit is a little rougher than I’d like. A while ago, someone (possibly @nota) commented something along the lines of – if Will had been a better partner, he would have attracted a better partner. Sounds like you and I both agree; I just added some additional thought about what might have promoted his becoming that better partner.
I don’t think there would necessarily be a divorce if William married anybody else but Kate. I don’t think she’s the only one who would turn a blind eye and have more ambitions of being Queen Consort and not care so much if he cheated. It don’t think it a big achievement for Kate to “land” William. She put everything else on hold and he did not have to he called the shots. She did nothing with her degree or perhaps even tried and many excuses were made for her non work. As it is to this very day. It is not a good relationship if the woman is scared that he will find someone else if she is not at the man’s total beck and call. As I said, I think that if William found someone else and wanted out, Kate would have to move on.
I don’t think there would necessarily be a divorce if William married anybody else but Kate. I don’t think she’s the only one who would turn a blind eye and have more ambitions of being Queen Consort and not care so much if he cheated. It don’t think it a big achievement for Kate to “land” William. She put everything else on hold and he did not have to he called the shots. She did nothing with her degree or perhaps even tried and many excuses were made for her non work. As it is to this very day. It is not a good relationship if the woman is scared that he will find someone else if she is not at the man’s total beck and call. As I said, I think that if William found someone else and wanted out, Kate would have to move on.
A narcissist with anger issues and a stalker.
Recipe for a dysfunctional relationship.
God save those kids.
A narcissist with anger issues and a stalker. >>>That’s a stable relationship.
William’s first love was his mother. Her biographies are full of descriptions of Will’s solicitous behavior toward her when he was a child. Wanting to be her protection officer, pushing tissues under the bathroom door. Yet, to the end of her life, she loved Charles.
It’s not uncommon for his parents’ marriage to be imprinted as a kind of love on a young boy. He may have mistakenly concluded that only a woman who tolerated mistreatment truly loved him.
The dynamic could also explain his competition and resentment of Harry, who is well to be far away from Will. Nor do I believe George is safe. He seemed like such a sunny child and looks far more serious and often unhappy as he has grown older.
None of this is exactly new to anyone who’s paid enough attention to the royals.
What is interesting is why this is being talked about and published in a book in 2020, especially when there’s a PR blitz to turn her into the best Future Future Queen that has ever existed and with that, a bit of a whitewash of history.
BINGO….
And who would have the most interest in throwing stones in the Garden of Bill and Katie as he makes his bid for a possible unofficial Regency ….?
The BRF is a great soap opera.
Surely, William knew that once he and any gf of more than 6 months were outed in the press, the longer he was involved the more pressure he’d be under to marry said gf.
Idiot.
Look, these people live lives that are so remote to reality the rest of us live it almost makes me glad to be a common working stiff.
The BRF does have the best jewelry on planet Earth, but even that isn’t enough to get involved in all the plotting and backstabbing.
a lot of the jewelry is plunder, which will make a lot of it unwearable in the future, I believe. It’s bling with heaps of baggage attached.
Good point: once the provenance of the jewelry to the public it will become unwearable. And then what for the BRF?
BUTTONS! Even then.
I think that Kate half-believed everything would be different when they were actually married. But she never posed a challenge for him, she has only been a cypher, ready to reflect whatever William thinks or feels or says. That does not make for good sex, frankly.
I do think a part of her thought it would be better once they were married. Unfortunately, many people fall into that trap.
And after all we’ve seen from William being a thoughtless jerk all these years? Yeah, no way Bill is good in bed.
Yeah, no offence, and I don’t to be crass. But between the two of them, I don’t think it’s Kate who’s bad at sex. William’s the one who struck out with all of those aristocratic women. There’s a reason for that. Just saying.
Hmm, yet his hobby is tending roses.
NO ONE is good enough in bed to put up with all his sh!t for all these years. NO ONE. For a fling, perhaps, but NOT a lifetime.
@A I agree – I would imagine someone like Bill would think he doesn’t need to be a good partner in anyway as he is the catch. Then the Aristo girls schooled him and he was stuck with Waity…
@Merricat I admit I don’t understand what Rose Hanbury would see in William, but I know aristos fall into bed with each other pretty regularly & there is supposedly some prestige associated with being a royal mistress.
The British tabloids really tried to push the narrative that Meghan was chasing Harry and had plotted to “marry a Prince”. Meanwhile Kate orchestrated her ENTIRE life around meeting and marrying William. Lol.
The projection on that one was insane. The textbook definition of social climber is what Kate did from age 18 to 29. It doesn’t get any more obvious than that.
Exactly. She is a stalker who followed him until she wore him out. I don’t believe for a second that Kate loved Will then or even loves him now. How does anybody believe that love is involved in this “romance” when she’d been plotting for 10 years to get him? Before she even knew what sort of man he would be, she’s already chosen him. She used him to get what she wanted and he used her as a facade for his family man image. This a business relationship to the core. Kate isn’t some helpless, scared, meek woman many make her out to be. She is a cold, calculating, focused woman who molded herself into who she had to be to get ahead. She is still doing this now, molding herself into Jecca or Diana or Meghan.
I’ve seen girls like Kate and sometimes it’s just them trying to gain acceptance on a personal level.
With Kate however, I feel like Carole used Bill as a means to also give her the acceptance that maybe she withheld from Kate as a child. So in bagging Bill, Kate managed to gain her mothers and Bill’s acceptance.
This whole thing is a mess. They give Meghan and Harry so much grief for the most basic of infractions, yet here we have a whole fatal attraction lite situation which kinda worked out.
It is interesting to see all the stories I remember from real time compiled into one comprehensive place, with some context. Most of these stories have been forgotten or softened over time, it’s fascinating they’re getting dragged out now.
Also, just hearing about Guy Pelly and William makes my skin crawl, can you imagine being in close quarters with those two patriarchy winners? They sound infuriating.
I have always believed Kate plotted to date William, and her mother greased the wheels. But this is the first time I’ve seen it written by a reputable source. Kate really did reorient her life to be close to William, including before University.
I honestly have to ask–what would she have done if William hadn’t been into her? All of that stuff, changing her plans to go to a completely different university, ditching her friends, taking a gap year–all of that would have been for nothing. In some ways, the fact that she stuck it through for 10 years all the way to clinching the ring is impressive. It could have gone wrong in so many ways. Why in the world would she stick with it for so long? Being Queen can’t be worth all of the shit that she put herself through for this guy. What would she have done if she’d gone to St. Andrews that first semester, tried her shot, and it didn’t work? How can you be so sure that a person will like you back, to the point where you alter significant life plans for something like this? I just find that level of faith so baffling. Was she just really confident in herself???? How and why?? I don’t get it.
Also, I can’t get over how good she looks in these photos. Pre-wedding Kate is my favourite Kate. Her make-up is nowhere near as heavy as it is today, but she doesn’t need it either. There’s a freshness to her face, and the fact that she’s probably heavier here than she is today goes a long way towards that. She looks so much healthier and happier. And I even like her fashion sense a little bit.
I think her family was a huge motivation for sticking with it. They were very enmeshed with her and invested in the relationship with William. Like, it was reported while they were dating that Carole had a picture of William as the background on her phone. It was a family project and a family payoff.
I mean…just the scale of ambition at work here. And again, the sheer confidence involved. If I had my acceptance to University of Edinburgh on lockdown, there is no way in hell that I would mess with that to chase after some guy. That’s not a bad school to go to at all. Why anyone would pick St. Andrews vs. Edinburgh is beyond me. Especially in the way that she did, which could have really backfired on her, because if she hadn’t managed to get in, and that was not a guarantee, then there’s a chance she would have been left with no place to go to at all.
Obviously, that matters less when you have the wealth and the opportunities it affords, but still. I feel like, they didn’t anticipate that he’d choose St. Andrews. They figured he’d go to Oxbridge, and that Kate didn’t have much of a chance going there, so she just decided on Edinburgh for the time being. And then when William announced that he was going to St. Andrews, they jumped on it. But truly, the way it all went down–it gives me hives. The sheer uncertainty of it all, esp abt your future. What even.
Others have also mentioned how tough it would have been to get accepted to St Andrew’s with the last minute change and increase in enrolment, and ending up in the same dorm. There is probably more that we don’t know in terms of there being pull for these coincidences to happen. And to do all this and not even really know him.
Back then, there was this idea that the royals had gotten so much wrong with the “aristocratic virgin led to the slaughter” narrative that was being used to describe Diana and Charles that there was real public support for Will to find happiness with whomever he wanted–rich or poor, royal, aristo, or commoner. The old way of doing things had to go out the window, for the sake of Will’s future happiness! The people practically demanded it!
Carole was aware of this popular sentiment and, knowing that the gates had been newly opened for someone like Kate to win him, she was off. They weren’t the only ones with the idea, hence the increase in applications at St. Andrews. Now, was Carole emboldened by her success turning Party Pieces into a company, and did she decide that if you just do A, B, or C, you have a better chance at reaching your goal than if you do nothing and leave it to chance? I bet so. Also, we have Exhibit A, Kate, who didn’t seem to be pining to be a doctor, or a teacher, or a businesswoman, or to pursue some other passion. Obviously, Project Will started with a dream and I imagine Kate was on the phone to Carole every day detailing what was happening, “Mum, I said hi to him on the stairs!” “Mum he kissed me!” with Carole egging her on. And it worked out. For now. Because we all know getting Will seems like a booby prize.
They’re actually perfect for each other. Yes, she was a stalker, but he knew she was a stalker and was mostly cool with it. I think she knows exactly who he is, and she got exactly what she wanted. I think her children are her world, and she’s perfectly happy in that little bubble. She doesn’t need anyone’s sympathy.
It has to bother her though that yes, she got the FFK, but he treats her like trash, shows her no respect and could dump her the second he finds someone better. She must realize that see has no self-respect or accomplishments of her own, lets her mother run her life and gets mocked for being a less than a modern woman. Endless shopping can’t fulfil her. No wonder she hates Meghan: a self-made woman with smarts, ambition, goals, and most of all, true love!
I agree. I’ve speculated on this topic before, but I do think Kate was content enough with the dynamic of her relationship (and its benefits) until seeing how Harry loved and treated Meghan. Whatever feelings arose from comparing relationships were probably compounded by finding out her husband had a thing with their neighbor and friend. Just look at how happy and confident she appeared in 2018 (particularly the months after giving birth to Louis) and how that demeanor abruptly shifted around spring of 2019. She’s been more tense, uncomfortable, and even looked downright unhappy at times (Christmas ’19 was quite a scene with those scowls sprouting up like weeds). There’s just been so many ‘tells’ between spring of last year and now that things aren’t so cheery in House Cambridge. I think the benefits she obtained from her marriage (titles, too many material spoils to list, kids) are no longer giving her that sense of solace and contentment.
I agree Beach Dreams. She saw that a Windsor boy can treat his spouse with respect and that it’s really only William who is the jerk.
I agree, they’re perfect for each other. And, William being who he is, can always feel superior to her as she’s a “commoner” unlike the other women he sought out.
Obviously she does need sympathy, or we wouldn’t be hearing about stories about how amazing she is or the drama about the Tatler article, etc.
Aww. Look at Kate’s old face!
Let’s be real, William was flattered that Kate was obsessed with him and the Middletons were happy to cater to him. That’s what he wants. An aristo family might have stood up to him or not been completely under his control and he couldn’t have that. An aristo girlfriend might not have taken his breakup call in the middle of a workday (!) Wtf?
I wonder if this book mentions how tacky and petty W and K were with Sam Branson and Isabella. Sam wasn’t invited to the wedding and Isabella wasn’t invited to the evening reception and shortly afterwards Kate dropped her social climbing friendship with Holly Branson, right?
Common knowledge that Kate chased William, took the same gap year purposely, switched universities purposely, and purposely stopped hanging with her “common” friends. Then the see-through “dress” thing. Don’t forget, it was Kate AND Carole pursuing him. I also think there are three people in William’s marriage, too.
Kate was pretty adorable back in the day. I think it would have been easy for William to fall for her.
I think there was an edge to Kate. She was on a quest to get the ring. And she did not get close women friends she would see as rivals. She even pretended to be William’s GF when she saw another woman coming on to him.
I think Bill is/ was ‘fond’ of Kate. Whether he loved her is questionable. Children often are doomed to repeat their parents mistakes, especially when they are angry with said parent or see what the damage of that parent’s behavior was.
Maybe Bill honestly thought Kate was a steady influence who would be a good wife, good mother and most importantly not too much maintenance. Into the bargain he gets a certain level of freedom and Kate gets the Crown and Ring. It’s transnational but the basis of many a royal / political marriage. She’s trustworthy and will never sell him out. He’s the future King and that elevates her status whether they survive or not.
Bizarrely, I also think the Courtiers encouraged this union as Kate was malleable and susceptible to their machinations.
Fast forward to 2017 and they start embiggening Kate to attack and triangulate Meghan. Kate believing in this false press also happily cooperates as a flying Monkey. The embiggening has however been too successful and Kate has forgotten her place post Sussex-it. The courtiers also no longer need her to play that role. They need her to fall back, mind her p’s and q’s but most importantly know her place.
Cue the Tatler piece reminding her she has never been and never will be an Aristo. Cue these extracts from Lacey’s book. This has the mitts of the courtiers all over it. I am guessing that they did not like the attention that Sussex-it brought, so it’s now time to remind Bill and Katie of their place in the natural order. They may be the FFK and FFQ but for now they’re just the D&D of Cambers.
This book also does make you question whom actually wields power in the Monarchy and whether it’s actually real. The irony is that even an actress wanted any part of this soap opera.
This book should be re-titled ‘the revenge of the courtiers’.
+1
I’ve been wanting to ask this for awhile – if any of the Brit CBs have an answer:
I always thought university in the UK was only three years (owing to the more advanced high school curriculum and need for fewer remedial courses upon entry). It wasn’t until WK were at St. Andrews that I found out about the 4 year curriculum in Scotland. So, why would English students chose to study in Scotland and add a year to uni? I understand Wills wanted to get out of England, and Kate followed him, but she and her friends were already planning to go to school in Scotland.
At Andrews is a Scottish University. They do ‘Highers’ instead of ‘A levels’ in Scotland so start Uni at 17. I’m guessing that historically that extra year was to bridge the gap?
Maybe some Scots can chime in?
St Andrews is a pretty good uni actually. There are equally good unis in England but I suppose if you really want to go, an extra year isn’t too bad. American undergrad degrees are 4 years. Another reason is, and I will admit this might be a bit of a controversial statement to any St Andrews alumni here, but it’s also seen as a “rich kids” uni and the uni where all the “Oxbridge rejects” go (along with Durham). That’s not to say that nobody who went to St Andrews did it because they wanted to, but it’s what /some/ people think.
that was its reputation when I was there in the 90s. Oxbridge rejects and rich kids. It’s an excelent university, and that’s not really a fair assessment, but that was the talk about it.
@lanne: You’re right, it is an excellent university, but just like Durham, it hasn’t managed to quite shake off that reputation. Again, you’re right as it is not a fair assessment, but it still seems to be prevalent in some people’s eyes
Yes, lanne and Sofia- when I studied in England, my friends said the exact same thing – rich kids, Oxbridge rejects, etc, for both St. Andrews and Durham.
Not a statement on them, I’m sure they are great universities, just confirming that I also heard that type of judgement about them.
It still seems weird to me that students would choose a four year university when there’s a three year option. That means still being in school while your friends are graduating and entering the workforce and/or moving on to graduate study.
Maybe I just grew up in a weird culture, but if my high school friends had graduated college a year before me, I’d never hear the end of it from them. (yeah yeah, I needed better friends in high school).
@bettyrose: St Andrews students come out of 4 year university with a Masters Degree, that’s why
Well, you can graduate with an undergrad MA (I did) but it’s not a Masters-level degree (i.e. it’s not the same level as a postgraduate qualification) and it also only applies to some arts-based subjects. If you do a science degree you’ll come out with a BSc.
It’s four years because we do Highers, not A-Levels, so our first year of uni is technically at the same level as the second year of A-Levels. Depending on the uni you choose, it’s also a little more similar to the American system, where you can choose more general courses and you don’t have to declare a major, as such. (Not the case for things like medicine and the like, though, obviously.)
You can go to uni straight after S5 (the US equivalent of your junior year) and Highers, but it’s less common than staying on for another year, because you can study more subjects. We also have Advanced Highers, which are at the same level as first year uni courses, so you *can* “skip a grade” and start in second year/as a uni sophomore (it’s called “advanced standing”) if you’ve done the right AHs – but most people make the decision based on their emotional maturity and what their peers are doing. It’s also worth remembering that the entry year for school in Scotland runs from March to February, so it’s perfectly possibly to start school at 4-and-a-half, stay right the way through to S6 (sixth year), go to uni and *still* only be 17. (This is what happened to me.)
I am Scottish and ditto my daughter. She did her full time in school but was less than 17 and nine months when she went to uni. The initial degree course in Scotland is four years partly because they are also allowed to study other subjects, apart from the degree ones, in the first two years so they possibly have a wider degree.
St Andrew’s is a very good uni. It is now ranked in UK just behind Oxford and Cambridge. Traditionally a lot of public school types go there.
Turning to William and Kate, William was first meant to be going to Edinburgh uni but changed I think to get more privacy at St Andrews, hence the reason Kate started off with Edinburgh. During the gap year, she also went on one of that sponsored charitable things in South America. That was also a stalk because she just missed out on William’s time there. She was on the next one.
With being Scottish and interested in the royals, I read a lot about it at the time. Also my Church minister’s daughter was at St A’s already when William started. She rolled her eyes when I asked her about him being there.
As far as I can gather, St Andrew’s arranged that William would have a lot of his own type (public school) sleeping in rooms near him to make him more comfortable.
I also read that from the beginning Kate was quite far in. William’s group used to call her over to sit with them at breakfast – the only girl. She and William went running in the morning from quite near the beginning. Kate Middleton was called “Beautiful Kate” to distinguish her from another Kate. When Kate appeared in that famous outfit the romance was already well established.
Regarding looks, maybe different nationalities have different ideas about looks. I am no William fan and his looks never really appealed to me but I think it should be said he was regarded as being DEVASTATINGLY good looking!!
Bettyrose, St Andrews is actually known for having a really good Art History and Architecture and Architectural History program. While it has a good reputation, it’s also known as an aristo party school. Meaning all of the parents pay to get their kids into a program. I remember hearing about the scandal in the USA? This school is the UK’s USC in a sense. It does have a worthy reputation but caters mostly to the rich.
We’re definitely no strangers to that in the U.S. That college admissions scandal was barely the tip of the iceberg. There’s no doubt that many mechanisms exist for the wealthy to get their kids into big name schools regardless of academic achievement. Bribery is a step too far, I guess, but there’s no law against spending a fortune on college admissions consultants and test preparation that average kids don’t have access to.
Absolutely rot that rich people pay/bribe to get into St Andrew’s. I am Scottish and that is really not the way Scotland works.
My daughter went to Uni 9 years ago (Edinburgh) from a very ordinary Comprehensive. At least two of her close friends were accepted by St Andrew’s- neither went – but one was from a single parent working class household, his mother being disabled. ANYONE can go to St Andrew’s if they have brains.
As a Scottish person, I’m happy to answer your question. – In Scotland, it is usually 3 years for an ordinary degree and 4 years if you do an Honours degree. I don’t know if W&K have ordinary degrees or Honours though.
Cerys, I am Scottish too. They both had 2:1 (Upper Second) honours degrees.
I don’t know how I fell into an article that mentioned that at Marlborough boarding school, Kate became addicted to flashing her butt through the window to the grateful crowd underneath.
No wonder she was perfectly happy flashing her bum to the world on all those tours.
Now I understand.
It’s Amazing how the media and the Meghan haters have swore up and down that Meghan is the social climber ones . According to them because Meghan took a vacation when she was 15 years old to England it’s absolutely proof that she plotted to get Harry but kate hatched a plan from the aged of eighteen until 29 to landed William she was laser focused for better part of a decades she transfer to William university she throw herself at him . But we are all supposed to be believe that Meghan a woman who is black and divorced plotted to get harry from since she was a teenager she choose a career that the royal family looks down on but yet Meghan is the one that plotted . It’s comical that people swear that William and Kate is a grand love story they were college sweethearts that William waited to protected Kate honors that he just wanted to make sure she was ok when will we all know that the only reason William waited so long is because he was looking for someone better than kate . This is not a love story it’s marriage of there was no else willing to married William and put up with personality but kate .
I’ve always been mystified about the multiple articles praising Kate’s ‘new confidence’. I thought it made her sound simple or something. Now I get it, they are trying to create the impression she is demure, not someone who paraded in her underwear in public so William would notice her after stalking him for years.
Yep. good advice: if you want to lose a label, go hard doing the exact opposite of it. I have seen Kate’s agents do this for years now, her old nicknames are all but forgotten. Good thing we have the internet and photograph proof to refresh our memories.
Its so weird to me to read how young these people were in 2004. In 2004 I had my child at 38 like Meghan did. Now I am 54 and an old fart. but with a teenager keeping me happy and hopping. But the crazy thing is I look at Will and Kate now and they look like my peers, not the happy new mom I was at 38, like Meghan. They both look old and spent now. They should not look like this at only a hair away from 40.
Wow it’s all coming out. I still don’t trust this guy but at least he’s telling the truth about KeenKueen Kate’s cunning plans to catch billy. I wonder if he’ll receive a legal warning for this like tatler
I feel sorry for Kate. Be careful what you wish for.
Why? Kate has/will get everything she wants. She actively chose this path and all the thorns/pitfalls that come with it. If she truly wanted out, she’d get herself and the kids out. She has all the means to keep her and the children at a distance if need be and threaten to ruin all kinds of monarchy plans. She went into this scenario with William with her eyes wide open. She is not as naiive as the press make her out to be. She decided that crowns, clothes, and titles are more important than being in a loving, healthy relationship. She actively makes the choice every single day to be where she is and she seems fine with it.
So true. She is living her best life, right now. This is everything she had ever hoped for and more. She’s got the adoration of millions of Brits, she’s on the cover of every magazine of checkout line at every store, an unlimited wardrobe, say what you will, it costs tens of thousands of dollar, bought the teeth she always wanted, she can filler her frown lines, eyes, and baby botox her jaw slimmer, and nose, she can colour her hair with stylists during covid, get the best medical care, best chefs, best personal trainers, best spiritual teachers, best advisors, any fails will be spun into a positive, even being lazy, and dont get me started on the kids, they are TAKEN CARE OF. You should feel sorry for a lot of people, but Kate is not one of them.
It is not so easy for a woman to leave the royal family. She can’t just take the children. William would demand part custody or if she is called a ‘bolter’ most of the custody. Kate has to play nice and turn a blind eye with William. But no matter what if he wants out of the marriage he will get out of the marriage.
Really? We’re going with feminine wiles? William was stalked and manipulated and had no agency? Is that what happened with Rose, too? Cunning, cunning women.
I admire that dedication, drive and confidence. Good for her.
MM and Harry had such a genuine meeting compared to that master plan !
Bwahahahahahahahahaha
These comments are interesting to me.
The entire thought of “The great and the good” really is stood on it’s head when you realize that the aritos and BRF many times are such shallow, selfish people.
The scheming and lying and fighting to “win” really does play out the like a low rent version of GoT doesn’t it? At least back in Henry VIII day Kings could actually fight with swords instead of it all being a mind game.
Access to the best educations money can buy and the Future King of England shows himself to be a total jerk. I have never heard the story Kate slept with his friend because William was seeing how well she took orders….Barf! x 200. Ugh! Nope. Nope.
I read the excerpt of Lacey’s book today. I am so getting this book though I don’t agree with all his contentions. He is one writer who is not sycophantic to William. He is also not rewriting the courtship of Kate and William.