To me, the whole “preemptive pardons shouldn’t be a thing” argument falls flat, because of what Gerald Ford did for Richard Nixon. Nixon was also up to his eyes in criminality (and ratf–king), but he wasn’t under indictment or charged with any crime when he resigned from office. Then President Ford pardoned him preemptively. So the precedent was set long ago. Expect Donald Trump – who is a million times worse, dumber and more criminal than Nixon – to issue a slate of “preemptive pardons.” Apparently, Rudy Giuliani has already discussed it with Trump. And “advisors” are heavily encouraging Trump to preemptively pardon his children too:
President Trump has discussed with advisers whether to grant pre-emptive pardons to his children, to his son-in-law and to his personal lawyer Rudolph W. Giuliani, and talked with Mr. Giuliani about pardoning him as recently as last week, according to two people briefed on the matter. Mr. Trump has told others that he is concerned that a Biden Justice Department might seek retribution against the president by targeting the oldest three of his five children — Donald Trump Jr., Eric Trump and Ivanka Trump — as well as Ms. Trump’s husband, Jared Kushner, a White House senior adviser.
Donald Trump Jr. had been under investigation by Robert S. Mueller III, the special counsel, for contacts that the younger Mr. Trump had had with Russians offering damaging information on Hillary Clinton during the 2016 campaign, but he was never charged. Mr. Kushner provided false information to federal authorities about his contacts with foreigners for his security clearance, but was given one anyway by the president.
The nature of Mr. Trump’s concern about any potential criminal exposure of Eric Trump or Ivanka Trump is unclear, although an investigation by the Manhattan district attorney into the Trump Organization has expanded to include tax write-offs on millions of dollars in consulting fees by the company, some of which appear to have gone to Ms. Trump.
Personally, I don’t think Bigly is all that concerned about Don Jr. or Eric being charged with any crimes. But I bet he’s definitely interested in protecting Ivanka and Jared, and I could absolutely see him giving preemptive pardons to Javanka and none of his other kids. Apparently, Trump’s advisers are really pushing for pardons for the whole family because, I sh-t you not, “The kids have been through enough.” Exactly what have they been “through”? Cocaine and crimes? Fascism whispers and incompetence? Financial and election fraud? Sources also tell ABC News that “Trump has not to this point embraced the idea of preemptive pardons, with some aides concerned that a preemptive pardon could be seen as an admission of guilt of some kind.” YA THINK?
Photos courtesy of Backgrid, Avalon Red.
Please please be too stupid to do it. Please go to jail, and then hell. I’m not even American.
In my opinion, each one of them, all of them, should come out of that presidency with a just and LONG detailed and proven list of all the crimes that they have committed during their term, so that we all remember for years to come.
I might actually enjoy watching him pardon his kids and think he pulled a fast one on us only to see them convicted of state crimes anyway.
Exactly. And that’s who’s coming after them – state officials, not federal. Please throw these grifters in prison.
Plus accepting a pardon is an admission of guilt. I think that even MAGAs think they’re guilty, but MAGAs seem willing to justify the destruction of constitutional democracy and committing any and all crimes in order to “protect” and promote their nazi selves.
Also, doesnt accepting negate the 5th? like, if you accept, you can’t plead the 5th to not incriminate yourself? So they’d HAVE to testify at any trials?
@teatimeiscoming – yes, you can’t plead the 5th if you accept the pardon as the pardon removes jeopardy
does anyone know if you’re allowed to hold elected office if you’ve accepted a pardon for federal crimes?
Trump pre-emptively pardoning his family, friends &/or himself, basically just opens the gates to the notion that the President, his/her family & members of the acting administration are- at the president’s discretion- 100% above the law when it comes to any federal crime
A pardon presumes guilt and if you accept one, you’re admitting guilt and you don’t get to plead the fifth in court anymore. Drumpf really hasn’t thought this through and meanwhile SDNY is biding its time. January 21st is coming.
@pottymouth, my understanding is that a convicted felon can run for, and become president. The only factors that prohibit someone from running is if they’re not:
– 35 years or older
– born in the US
– a resident of US
I suspect Jared has been running a pay-to-play grift since day one. Trump thought he would win and be succeeded by Ivanka and they would get away with all their crimes. Not they are in trouble because their lap dog Barr is out.
Ivanka made no secret that she was doing exactly that. Countries had to cough up money for that “women’s fund” of hers before Daddy would meet with them.
iird Nagini also got an 80 million trade deal out of China, exempting her from Daddy’s trade wars.
So very glad that the president can’t pardon state crimes. And I really don’t think s/he should be able to pardon immediate family members or people who have committed crimes FOR YOU either. It’s disgusting. And morally and ethically wrong to boot.
I read an opinion piece that Ivanka doesn’t want a pardon as it would look bad for her future political career. This makes sense as she hasn’t been directly fingered in any previous crimes. Suspicious as hell, though.
I was thinking the same, if she or any of them are pardoned, there goes any political aspiration they may have, Which is fine by me. I have always said I hope they never set foot in Washington DC again. I think their goose is cooked regardless. It’s probably the lesser of two evils: you get pardoned and go down for state crimes (which scuttlebutt is that they have indictments waiting on her too at state level) or do you get pardoned and go down for the state crimes. It’s down to what will hurt the least.
I would hope they would be embarrassed about this idea at the very least. They have to wrestle with continuing to declare their innocence or just giving in and admitting they want a pardon to protect them from their criminal behavior.
The thing is in any world where Ivanka has a future political career, the pardon would be a badge of honor, if anything. No one but the MAGAs would support her and with them nothing matters.
I don’t know. I’m not convinced the Trump base will turn out for Ivanka or Jared the way it did for Trump, and those are the people who would see a pardon as some kind of badge of honor.
My neighbors and I were talking about this. Of course none of them would want to start out by running for Congress or even Senate where they’d actually have to do some work and wouldn’t have unbridled power. But we also doubt any of them, even baby talking Ivanka, would actually get (legally) elected because, much as we all despise Trump, we acknowledged he does have charisma and whatever that IT factor is, which none of kids have.
I do not see any of the Trump kids running for public office. They are only interested in grifting and monetizing for their own personal benefit.
The kids would have to move to Florida as New York wants nothing to do with them. Moving to Palm Beach would not be a good idea with regards to a career in politics as Palm Beach leans Democrat as in Limousine Liberal. Moving to the west coast of Florida or the Florida Panhandle would force them to live among what the Trumps consider the unwashed masses. I do not see the snobby Trump kids wanting to live among the MAGAts that put their father into office.
What charisma? I keep missing it. People say the same about Hitler – he had charisma, he was a powerful orator. I don’t speak German, but I’ve seen snippets of his speeches, he looks like an unhinged lunatic. I don’t know what he could possibly be saying while shouting like that for me to consider that charismatic or compelling. I hope I never see the “charisma” of dictators.
The day she marched her corrupt self into the West Wing and took over an office, a phone, a computer, and started ordering staff around, she broke dozens of laws. When she flew on a government plane without buying a ticket, more laws broken. When she parked her ass in his chair at the G20 summit and represented the USA, more laws broken.
A crooked DA in NYC helped Ivanka and Don Jr skate on felony fraud charges related to the Trump SoHo hotel.
Brokedown Barbie’s hands gave never been clean.
Apparently you CAN be a convicted felon and be elected to office: https://www.factcheck.org/2008/11/felons-in-office/
It is up to the Senate/Congress to “approve”, and various STATE laws as well…but they CAN get away with it. 😱
The walls are closing in
The walls are closing in!
Hi ho the derry-o
The walls are closing in!
From what I understand, doesn’t a person have to be formally charged with a crime before it can be pardoned? I don’t recall ever hearing of a preemptive pardon until now. Lord this administration is bat sh!t….
Ford gave one to Nixon, as Kaiser noted. Precedent has been set.
And Bush I gave out a bunch of them on his way out the door.
No. Preemptive pardons are for any crimes that may have been done at the federal level. It doesn’t matter if the crimes are known at the time of the pardon. As Kaiser mentioned, Ford pardoned Nixon preemptively. However, the president doesn’t have the power to pardon for state crimes.
You are quite correct Sigmund. A Presidential Pardon will have no effect on any charges coming out of the SDNY.
Remember: Al Capone went to jail for tax evasion not murder, not bootlegging nor drug trafficking.
Help us SDNY. You’re our only hope.
People…remember SDNY IS Federal. AG Letitia James, and DA Cyrus Vance, are the ones going after The Criminal Grifters on the STATE level. Now, IF SDNY finds any STATE law violations, they will turn it over to LJ or CV.
It reminded me of when I watched the Jeffrey Epstein documentary – Acosta basically gave Epstein a blanket cover and all those who were involved but not named. Every one was like WTH, can that be done. But I stand corrected by Sigmund below. It really sucks how they can get away with this and be pardoned.
Lol NY AG is waiting for them…
I here they are waiting at the gates waiting for them to be opened. And I can’t wait to see the Trump Clan run.
Doesn’t protect them from state charges, though, which is what most of them should be worried about!
My guess is he will pardon Ivanka, Junior, and Jared, but forget about Eric 😂.
Personally, I think if Ivanka or Jared are pardoned, any future careers in politics for them are toast.
Agree, especially if they tried to run for a congressional seat in NY or NJ. Florida, they might have a chance.
A pardon would be a political career ender because Trump voters so carefully evaluate the candidate’s credentials and suitability for office?
Right? If anything, this would be catnip to the MAGAts…”the Deep State tried to keep them down, but…”
I’m sure that will play well with the morons who thought Trump’s coronavirus diagnosis was so he could go undercover to “get Hillary.” Seriously.
Lol. Trumps goes on and in about how hunter is corrupt and got everything cause of nepotism. And now he’s all, but pardon my kids (except Tiffany – cause no one cares about her – and Barron cause he’s underage). Lmao
They will take the pardon. They have no shame.
They won’t care about the optics. They will just create another conspiracy theory about how the Democrats are out to get them and falsified evidence to make them look bad.
Narcs always have to win and control the narrative.
Exactly! We had to get pardoned because all the witch hunters were after us. We didn’t do anything wrong, we were just protecting ourselves from liars.
“The kids have been through enough”
They. Are. NOT. Children.
Exactly this. Let’s not pretend these are teenagers who were forced to live with their dad’s decision to run for office. These are adults who CHOSE to take advantage of their dad’s position for personal gain. I can only hope the blowback from this is so great, they don’t go through with it. Or that Trump’s staff is as bad at writing pardons as they are at everything else, and some smart prosecutors can find loopholes.
No mention if Tiffany from any of his people lol.
I think s more likely trump really wants that pardon for himself which would be a interesting legal battle. Ford justified the pardon to Nixon privately stating he meant he was guilty. And then refused to hand over Nixon’s papers to the LOC so ugh to Ford. Any federal lawyers about? Who would have standing to take that to court? Can you take pardons to court?
@scal, but he can’t pardon himself. He’d have to step down, allow Pence to assume the presidency, then have Pence pardon him. And that assumes Pence will do that, which I’m not sure about.
I think the pardon himself thing isn’t 100% certain. I don’t think there’s any question that he might try to do that and then it would end up in the supreme court if someone tried to prosecute him after that and then we’d see if any of the conservative justices are remotely ethical or not.
If there’s one thing we’ve learned, it’s that he will attempt to do pretty much anything and then we all get to see if anyone will stop him or not.
I think he would pardon Jared and Ivanka but not the other two possibly – because Jared and Ivanka were more involved in the running of the White House and I’m assuming they were committing crimes on the daily as part of that. but I can also see ice princess Ivanka saying no to a pardon because she wouldn’t want anyone to think she did anything wrong.
But why would anyone need a pardon unless s/he had done something wrong? The fact that preemptive pardons are even being considered strongly suggests there were crimes committed and the Chump family was all in with committing them. Not a good legacy! Sad!
Everything she did as special adviser to the President was illegal. Being special adviser to the President was illegal.
Kushner has been selling state secrets to get cash for his buildings in NY. He’s in the Middle East making deals as we speak because the tap of information turns off Jan 20. And now with Biden knowing what is being said, he’s going to know what is being offered as well. Biden himself may not direct anything, but his AG will sure as hell look into him.
I was being sarcastic but forgot to add “/s.” Oops. Glad I am not the only one who recognizes all the illegal and unethical crap this administration has pulled! Love you guys!
Question about a federal pardon. A federal pardon is an admission of guilt, right? And because of that, you can’t plead the 5th, but is that only for federal crimes? If you accept a federal pardon and then are charged with state crimes, can they use that pardon as an example of an admission of guilt and would that be admissible then in state charges. Basically if Javanka did take a pardon and then got charged in state crimes can the DA be like “they admitted guilt on a federal level, but we’re expected to believe that they are innocent of these state level crimes”?
A Presidential Pardon would have no affects on “state” charges originating from the SDNY.
Sorry to be pedantic (but I am a New Yorker and can’t help it!) –The Southern District of New York (SDNY) is part of the Federal district court system. Any charges from that court would pertain to violations of Federal law. Any State charges, from the State of New York, would be separate. Who knows, Trump may face charges from both!
It would not have much weight because you are talking about two different sets of crimes. Sure, most of us think that someone willing to engage in federal crimes would also be guilty of state crimes, but the law doesn’t work that way. The elements of the state crimes would still have to be proven. But the pardons might be brought in as evidence that their testimony is not credible, but my guess is that none of them would take the stand in a criminal proceeding.
From what I read about Michael Flynn situation, the judge can ask him what crimes he committed and he has to state them. If he lies, Flynn can go to jail for lying not the pardoned crimes. Pardons don’t come with 5th Amendment protections.
The big difference here is that Ford was not complicit or involved in Nixon’s crimes.
And Nixon was willing to fade out into permanent silent oblivion retirement so the country could move forward. Ford knew all this.
Also, at worst Nixon was guilty of arranging a robbery and obstruction of Justice. That’s very low end compared to the crimes committed by the Dumps.
The walls are closing in and what they don’t know is that a pardon makes you look hellava guilty and it doesn’t protect you from state crimes. I mean look at Flynn, he gets a pardon and now he’s trying to talk Trump into declaring martial law and redoing the election via the military. You can’t do that unless there is civil unrest which I am sure Trump’s insane followers will be willing to stage for the cameras. It’s basically sedition and Flynn belongs in cuffs.
Meanwhile, NY state is sharpening her prosecuting knives and she doesn’t have time for this crap.
Is there time constraints on this pardon? Or can they go shoot someone on 5th Avenue a year from now?
Saw this on another lawyer thread. He has a couple of halfway decent lawyers on his team (not rudy or the crazy lady)-so I’m sure this is the only reason he hasn’t done a pardon for himself and the kids yet.
Here’s the “good” thing about these pardons. Everyone who received one can be subpoenaed to testify about anything afterwards without the ability to plead the fifth. Any attempt to avoid the subpoena is contempt and lying on the stand is perjury – all of which would be new charges not covered by the pardon. , they can now be forced to testify. He’s giving them the green light to be witnesses for the prosecution. Also the pardon has to be specific, which means we’d know what their crimes are, and can’t just be a blanket for everything.
You know what could help ease his concerns? Conceding the election loss and then picking up the phone to call Joe Biden. Biden is not a petty, vengeful man like Bigley. He would probably give his “Biden word” not to pursue the kids on a federal level for the sake of unifying the country. But Trump can’t understand that because that’s not how he thinks. He is going to create this big scandal rather than admit he lost and help Biden heal the country. God, I hate a Trump with the passion of a thousand suns.
The KIDS?? You mean the full grown adults with children of their own? The ones who should have to answer for consequences to their own actions? LIKE ADULTS??
Does it protect them from future crimes? Because who are we kidding here?
FFS. Fuck this whole family.
When Ford pardoned Nixon, he wanted pardoning crimes committed in his behalf. So, Trump pardoning criminals within his own administration or family should absolutely not be looked at the same.
Doing so would also make his family look guilty of a lot. Even if pardoned, I hope the crimes the Trump’s have participated in are still investigated and made public just so none of them can run for president in the future. Their legacy needs to reflect the dirty, even if legally their immune.
Edit: I read up thread they would need to be specific about what crimes were committed to do a pardon. Since it’s not a blanket pardon, I doubt they’d want one.
This is bonkers! Blanket preemptive pardons for them all. Go ahead, they are still looking at huge problems ahead. All around sickening though. And yep, I am with you Kaiser, the kids have been through enough line? MY GOD, no. They have put us through too much by taking the place of other competent advisors that could have, literally saved lives. And their dirty (the kids haha, oh not 🙂 have been scamming and screwing over investors and contractors, you name it for decades. In every way possible. Shameless and shameful, they need to be accountable, this is so wrong.
Hope to God Stephen Miller doesn’t get off the hook. If anyone should be tried at the Hague…