Speaker Pelosi: If Mike Pence doesn’t invoke the 25th Amendment, we’ll impeach

Speaker of the United States House of Representatives Nancy Pelosi (Democrat of California) holds a press conference at the U.S. Capitol.

Mark your calendars, I was wrong! (I’m wrong all the time, tbh.) I thought that because the House and Senate adjourned until the inauguration, that meant that Congress was going home to process the trauma of the Capitol siege on January 6th. But no. It was like some high-level political strategy between Nancy Pelosi, Chuck Schumer and others. Many senators and House members are still in town and now they’re solely focused on dealing with the fallout of the Capitol siege. We’ll get to the issues around the Capitol Police in a separate post, this is just for the political side.

Soon after the House and Senate adjournments, Speaker Pelosi began making her moves. She holds Donald Trump responsible for the attempted coup (he IS responsible), and she has more than a hundred House members willing to impeach him now. She gave Mike Pence an ultimatum: call a Cabinet meeting and invoke the 25th Amendment within, say, the next 48 hours or we’ll impeach. She said that Pence was avoiding her call, and then this article came out yesterday afternoon:

Vice President Mike Pence opposes using the 25th amendment to remove President Donald Trump from power, according to reports from Business Insider and the New York Times.

Democrats and some Republicans have called for Trump administration officials to invoke the 25th amendment to relieve Trump of his powers, less than two weeks before he is to leave office. Absent that, leading Democrats, including House of Representatives Speaker Nancy Pelosi and Senate Minority Leader Chuck Schumer, have called for impeachment proceedings to remove Trump after his supporters stormed the U.S. Capitol on Wednesday.

[From Reuters]

Even though Donald Trump weaponized and incited his violent cult to siege the Capitol and attack Pence and other Republicans, Pence is too much of a weakass to hold Trump accountable. Their dynamic is so… problematic. So, basically Pence is telling Speaker Pelosi that he won’t invoke the 25th and Trump won’t be removed that way. So…when will the House meet to impeach Trump? Monday? It sounds like it:

“This is urgent, this is an emergency of the highest magnitude,” Pelosi told reporters in the Capitol, one day after Trump’s supporters stormed the complex in a deadly riot and spurred dozens of Democrats — and a tiny number of Republicans — to call for Trump’s removal. “Yesterday the president of the United States incited an armed insurrection against America.”

Pelosi said if Pence did not take action, Democrats could quickly act to remove Trump from office, and did not rule out canceling next week’s planned recess and bringing the House back into session. Democrats could swiftly create a commission to begin the process of removing Trump through the 25th Amendment, or take the unprecedented step of impeaching a sitting president for the second time in one term.

“While there’s only 13 days left, any day can be a horror show for America,” said Pelosi, whose own office was among those invaded by rioters on Wednesday.

Pelosi later escalated her rhetoric on Trump, telling her leadership team on a private call that he committed an act of treason, per multiple sources familiar with the call.

[From Politico]

Any day CAN be a horror show and no one trusts Trump to stay quiet in his final days in office. So, let’s say the House does a quick vote on Monday and impeaches him then. After that, it will be sent to the Senate, where – my guess – nothing will happen. Many Republican senators are already backsliding and indicating that they believe Trump gets one deadly insurrection as a freebie, but if he does it again, then there will be consequences!

Meanwhile, the calls for Trump to resign, be impeached and/or be removed from office just keep coming. The Wall Street Journal has joined editorial boards across the country urging Trump to resign before he’s impeached for a second time. None of this would be necessary if Pence did what was required.

Speaker of the United States House of Representatives Nancy Pelosi (Democrat of California) holds a press conference at the U.S. Capitol.

Photos courtesy of Avalon Red.

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84 Responses to “Speaker Pelosi: If Mike Pence doesn’t invoke the 25th Amendment, we’ll impeach”

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  1. Nikki* says:

    Hope so! Fingers crossed!

    • Seraphina says:

      I will be corny: Be like Nike and JUST DO IT. Nike is the Greek word for victory, so JUST DO IT Nancy.

  2. Dana Dayen says:

    Today a reporter mentioned that Trump still has the nuclear codes until January 20. Now there’s a sobering thought.

    • Oh_Hey says:

      This. This alone should reason enough. He might deliberately start WWIII to save his own skin. We’ve already seen this week that he’s willing to do anything.

      • Miranda says:

        I don’t think it would even be a matter of saving his own skin. It’s more like he’s America’s abusive stalker boyfriend: If he can’t have us, no one can.

      • Cee says:

        Didn’t Hitler order Paris to be burned to the ground as the Nazis finally lost?
        He didn’t want anyone to have it but him and his Nazis.
        It took for the Allies to negotiate with his General in Paris an escape treaty for Paris to be saved.

        They should offer Pence the same – we will not come after you past Jan. 20th if you do your damn job, and perhaps your political career will survive your tenure as Fascist Trump’s doormat.

    • Nikki* says:

      OMG. My happy mood just vanished…Ignore my next comment ‘s euphoric tone…But doesn’t it need a “second”?

    • Izzy says:

      I would hope that someone within the national defense structure had the common sense to just change the codes forget to mention it to him.” If there was ever a time for such a drastic move, it’s now.

      • HoofRat says:

        I’m fairly sure the code is now something like Hamberder1234 or Donnieisahottie

      • Esme says:

        I’m fairly sure he hasn’t got effective codes now. Well, I’m hoping. Even the US military industrial complex can’t be THAT stupid. Fingers crossed.

    • lucy2 says:

      People were pointing out that he’s not allowed to use social media, but still has those codes.
      This world is batshit crazy.

      I’m going to try very hard to limit my news and social media today. My mental health and work productivity are not good.

      • Noodle says:

        @lucy2, I was catching up on reading yesterday while waiting in the line for the pharmacy and just about had a panic attack in line when I read all of this. I came home and shut off my phone and watched TV because the stress of all of it was too much.

    • SpankyB says:

      They gave Nixon fake codes during his meltdown before he resigned. I’m hoping they’re doing the same to Trump. I’m also hoping he’s never had the correct codes, I can see him selling them off to the highest bidder.

      • lucy2 says:

        I know there have been reports that staff has kept certain things from him, I wouldn’t be a bit surprised if they never gave him true access to that stuff.

        Didn’t do anything to remove him from office of course, but at least it’s something I guess.

    • Becks1 says:

      Apparently Pelosi had a call today with the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs to see what they could do about limiting his access to the launch codes.

    • Saucy&Sassy says:

      I read something this morning that (from a military department?) that stated Nancy Pelosi had confirmed that Trump cannot push the button. I don’t understand exactly the procedure for that, but it does take more than the President to do that. So no worries there.

  3. Nikki* says:

    Don’t nobody put their dirty shoes on Nancy’s desk, effers!

  4. Lemons says:

    Full hand clap for Nancy and Chuck! So glad that they are not backing down and not letting them get away with this.

    • MyOpinion says:

      Lemons, absolutely!! Someone needs to go in and every element of power away from Agent Orange as he the authority to use nuclear weapons! We see that he is unhinged, and is willing to continue stoke violence! I am also so angered to see so many officers on the Capital taking pictures with the terrorists and giving them free reign! They should all be fired immediately! The fact that so many of this right wing nut jobs WALKED out of the Capital without being arrested is disgusting!
      Though, this will be his last hurrah after a disastrous presidency for the days and years that led up to this.

      • Pusspants says:

        And with one capitol police officer dead, I wonder how his coworkers taking selfies with the terrorists feel? I just feel sick to my stomach that person died defending the capitol when the mob should have never gotten anywhere near being able to break-in. I want these people charged and in prison! But it can’t stop at the lower level criminals, and I fear that’s what will happen. The enablers in power need to be brought to justice!

  5. Elizabeth Regina says:

    He won’t and they should ASAP. No more time to waste or else he will run again in 2024 and leave America a wasteland.

    • MyOpinion says:

      @ Elizabeth Regina, True! It is a fitting end to his disastrous 4+ years!

    • Betsy says:

      I truly don’t think he’ll be ambulatory at that point. I do think he has dementia and not only will he be using a wheelchair to avoid falls, but also he’ll be wholly insensible (even to his idiot followers who seem to hear the devil talking to them through dogs).

      • emma33 says:

        Yes, that’s what gives me hope too – time is NOT on his side. We might have him creating havoc from the sidelines for another 3 or 4 years, but I can’t see him effectively being able to participate in rallies, twitter etc after that. It’s a small blessing in this nightmare I suppose.

        My long-term fears all along haven’t really been about trump, because he’s an idiot and really can’t organise anything effectively – my fear is if a highly intelligent sociopath (someone like Hitler) gets into power, then that person would be able to do what Trump did but 100 times more effectively. Awful thought.

  6. Anna says:

    I was just reading somewhere that by impeaching him it will make him a hero to his supporters, and there is a real danger that this could escalation. Just a thought and wondered what you guys think about it?

    • Nikki* says:

      He’s already a hero to his supporters. I hope they impeach him asap.

      • lucy2 says:

        Completely agree. He could personally kick them in the face, and still be their hero. Doesn’t matter.
        Impeachment is the right thing to do, if the Cabinet abdicated their duty. This cannot be allowed to stand, both for the future of the country, and our standing in the world.

      • Esme says:

        If he cannot run in 2024 he can’t be the republican candidate. He can continue fundraising from his devotees, but it’ll peter out. No party machine, no legitimacy, no center stage. There will be an actual R candidate, and the right wing vote will be divided. It’s the best insurance for the Dems, they truly should impeach him now.

        And populist movements need a charismatic vulgarian leader – it’s not so easy to be one. If they take him out now, politically, it’ll be over in two years.

    • Darla says:

      My feeling is the entitlement of these terrorists was on full display on the 6th. They really think they own the capital. They are terrorists, and thugs, and traitors but they are also bullies. You can never allow a bully to keep throwing punches and keep walking. How are they going to learn?

      Time to punch back. We need to take them to school.

    • Miranda says:

      I think he’s already a martyr to his supporters, but yes, i agree that this could escalate fast. If that happens, I honestly don’t see any way to drive them back other than with force, potentially lethal force. More people are going to die before this is all over. But hey, they chose this sorry-ass hill.

      EDIT: Just to clarify, I’m not saying I actually WANT anyone to die. But I just can’t bring myself to feel much sympathy for these traitors if/when something does happen.

    • lanne says:

      Impeach the motherf**ker. Let his worshipers stand up for him and ID themselves. No one is making him a martyr—he blew up his own political career with his petty selfishness, narcissism, and racism. Anyone who can stand up for him after this is showing himself/herself to be utter trash. His supporters waved the Confederate flag in the halls of Congress. That’s who these people are. How’d appeasement work for Neville chamberlain? It’s time for us to get the nuclear codes away from him and prevent him for pardoning these racist brown shirts. This shit stops now.

    • Lemons says:

      His supporters are living in a delusion and impeachment or not, they are will be with Trump. He told them to do the equivalent of jumping off a cliff and they were ready to do it. They did it.

      So decisions should not be made in terms of what his followers will do. They need to be made in terms of minimizing Trump’s visibility and ability to communicate with them.

    • Becks1 says:

      This has already escalated. He’s already a martyr/hero to his followers. We’re at that point.

      He needs to be impeached – he may not be removed, but my understanding is if he’s impeached twice he cant run again in 2024? So it would at the VERY least remove that threat, and it would send a message that the Democrats aren’t taking this lying down.

      • Pusspants says:

        So if he is impeached twice and can’t run again in 2024, he also won’t be able to spend the next four years raising money for his next campaign. That may not stop all people from handing him their money, but it would certainly stop some.

        Who am I kidding…he could say he needs money for his legal bills and people would still probably donate to that.

      • Another Anna says:

        Not exactly. In the articles of impeachment, he can be barred from holding federal office again, but that only takes if he is convicted. If he is impeached and acquitted (even multiple times) he remains eligible for federal office. The 25th is a lot faster than impeachment, if Pence ever discovers his spine. The 25th allows them to temporarily remove trump immediately, while impeachment does take some time. Impeachment is a political process, though, so it is whatever Congress says it is. They could have him tried and gone by Monday, if they wanted to. But there are plenty of Republicans who are still running interference for that traitor.

        My biggest concern is how many media orgs I see backsliding into covering Trump as if he’s the problem and not a symptom. Too much talking like removing Trump will restore sanity when the problem is so much bigger than that. Hawley and Cruz should resign, along with every single House and Senate member who voted to refuse to certify the count. But I have no patience for the rest of these Republicans. Susan Collins thought he learned his lesson. Well, either she’s gullible or she’s running interference. Either way, she should resign. And I’m zero percent interested in giving Mitt Romney a cookie for anything. He makes big sweeping statements but he never actually takes any action. He’s a US Senator in a bitterly divided Senate. He could have made Mitch McConnell listen by threatening to withhold his vote but he didnt. Why? Because Romney is no ally. He’s fine with what Trump is doing, he just doesn’t want to get yelled at.

    • Aang says:

      They think he was anointed by god to lead them. They can’t get much more delusional.

    • amurph says:

      That is probably true but if the impeachment is successful he can’t run for office again. If they invoke the 25th, he can.

    • liz says:

      They need to Impeach him Now. He will not be able to run for office again. There are already calls for more violence on Inauguration day. Getting Trump out of the way will enable (and I hate to say this) President Pence to have the DC National Guard actually respond appropriately to the known threats of violence.

      I live in Jerry Nadler’s district. I’ve already called his office and left a voice mail saying that Trump needs to be impeached now and that the seditious wanna-be despots in the House need to be expelled.

      • Another Anna says:

        Good for you for calling his office. Nadler has called for articles of impeachment to go straight to the House floor, without even being debated in his committee. He’s trying to move as fast as possible, and that’s probably because he’s hearing from constituents like you.

    • Yes, but by impeaching him (twice) he can never hold the office of president again.

  7. lillyfromLilloet says:

    The only, first and last time I felt a spark of life from Pence was when he denounced the actions of Trump. I hope that at least someone around Pence pointed out that orchestrating an impeachment would be the strongest leadership move he could make and would certainly make him more of a contender in 2024.

    The notion that Trump was/is planning to visit a border wall next week–to go anywhere or do anything in an official capacity–is reason enough for us not to sit on our hands for 12 days.

    Shame, shame, shame on Twitter for allowing him to come back.

    • Noodle says:

      Pence kept them (Pelosi and Schumer) on hold for 25 minutes, then someone came on the line to say he was not going to take their call. The Vice President refused their call. Utterly unimaginable.

      • Tiffany says:

        And this is well after finding out that the mob of cultist he sent to The Capitol was there to hang Mother’s Husband by the neck with a noose.

        Yes, they were not only there for Pelosi, they were there for Pence as well.

        And he still put out a release he will not invoke the 25th.

      • Pence is already thinking of 2024. I’ll bet his thinking is, if he enacts the 25th, he will never live that down with all Trumps right wing crazies. What he doesn’t realize is that Trump has already turned Pence into a devil with his base, so Pence might as well DO. HIS. JOB.

    • Chrissy (The Original) says:

      Twitter needs to ban him until at least he is removed from the WH, but preferably forever. His pettiness and delusions know no bounds. I fear he will always be a threat to America.

  8. Sam the Pink says:

    Pence is weak. Reporters noted that his wife and daughter were there with him when the riot started and they had to evacuated as well, and Trump knew they were there and never even tried to inquire as to if they were okay. Trump can put the lives of his family in danger and Pence still cannot stand up to him.

    He needs to be impeached again. He’d be the only president in history to be impeached twice – put that stain on his record.

    • Midge says:

      They were never in danger. Had the radicalized terrorists succeeded at getting into the chamber, they would have tied up and executed Democrats.

      • Rapunzel says:

        Midge- the terrorists were actually looking for him. They were apparently asking, “where’s Pence?”

      • Sam the Pink says:

        They consider Pence a traitor for not subverting the certification. They were absolutely after him. All the more reason for him to challenge Trump.

      • megs283 says:

        They were in danger. Trump officially cancelled Pence on twitter and called him a coward. Everyone in that building was in danger.

      • liz says:

        Pence was at the top of their “traitor” list. They were looking to execute him first.

      • outofthecloset says:

        They were chanting “Hang MIke Pence” and erected a scaffold and noose, so no , I don’t think he felt safe, or was. I sure wouldn’t be cool with that if my kid was there.

    • BayTampaBay says:

      I do not think Trump was impeached. I think impeachment charges were just brought up against him but I could be wrong. Did impeachment ever get to the Senate for a vote?

      Please chime in any CB historian.

      • Becks1 says:

        Yes, he was impeached. the House impeaches, the Senate then holds a trial and either acquits or removes. He was impeached by the house (kind of like being indicted) and then acquitted by the Senate.

      • Rapunzel says:

        Baytampabay- he was impeached. The House impeached. It then went to the Senate and they voted not to remove him.

        It is two parts: impeachment and removal. House does the first. Senate does the second.

        It’s the same thing that happened to Clinton. Impeached, but not removed.

      • Who ARE these people? says:

        Last year he was impeached (indicted) by the House but not removed (convicted ) by the Senate.

      • sa says:

        Not only was he impeached, he is the only impeached President in history to have a member of his own party (Romney) vote to remove him from office.

    • Lightpurple says:

      His brother was there too.

  9. Elizabeth says:

    I can’t even believe the degradation of this country. What is going on.

    • Miranda says:

      Right? The other day, I would’ve said that I couldn’t believe how damaged our country became in just 4 years. So quickly! But now everything is going to shit in just 4 HOURS, if not minutes.

    • Tiffany says:

      Seriously???

      So history was just a lie.

      • AB says:

        Agreed, Tiffany.

        The colonisation of the Americas meant attempted genocide and enslavement (for a time) of the indigenous peoples.

        Then came the kidnapping and enslavement of African people for four hundred years. Followed by Jim Crow etc. etc. etc.

        These original sins have never been atoned for.

        Americans who think their country only became horribly racist during the last four years must have been living in an absolutely gorgeous bubble. Reminds me of Jennifer Anniston’s nostalgia for the “sense of safety in the world” of the ’90s.

      • Miranda says:

        I can only speak for myself, but I’m not at all surprised by the sentiments at play here. What I find startling is the brazenness we’ve seen in the past 4 years. There are no dog whistles anymore. Republicans have ceased making excuses and insincere apologies when they’re called out for racist words and actions. The POTUS called neo-Nazis “fine people”, told domestic terrorists that he loved them, and proudly took the first steps towards ethnic cleansing by putting children in cages and accidentally-on-purpose “losing track” of who those babies belong to. All of that would be unimaginable coming from even the most conservative Republicans back in 2016. I don’t mean to deny or claim ignorance of America’s racist past, present, and future.

  10. Wiglet Watcher says:

    Pence doesn’t want to be seen as taking cues from dems. And he doesn’t want to inherit this disastrous presidency for just under 2 weeks. Majority of our elected officials are acting in their best interest so this is no surprise.

    They’re striking while the iron is hot, but unless Trump does something else they’ll lose momentum.

    And no way trump actually sets fire to the WH. He’ll need all the coddling and have teams around him.

    • Noodle says:

      He’s also aware that in order for the 25th to be successful, he has to have support from 2/3 of the cabinet, which he likely doesn’t have. A few of the cabinet Secretary positions are open or filled by temporary cronies, and a few of the cabinet Secretaries have just resigned (McConnell’s wife, the Sec of Transportation, for example) to avoid this. Realistically, he may know he doesn’t have that 2/3 support so he isn’t going to try. If he tries, Trump could remove HIM, replace him with a loyal “patriot”, and the situation is worse.

  11. Willow says:

    Pence isn’t even answering the phone. After he didn’t return Nancy and Chuck’s messages, they waited on hold for 25 minutes! He hasn’t talked to Trump, he hasn’t talked to any Cabinet members (who reportedly have been talking to each other). For 4 years he’s been nothing but Trump’s mouthpiece. He thinks if he hides for long enough, someone else will get stuck doing the hard work and take all the blame. Guess what? People will remember that he did nothing. Try running for President 2024 with ‘coward’ stamped all over your resume.

  12. Lightpurple says:

    Cabinet members like Chao and DeVos are resigning to avoid taking any role in what comes next. Their actions would make it difficult for Pence to get the numbers he needs if he did decide to do the right thing.

    Pelosi is a GODDESS. After that ordeal Wednesday, her life actively threatened, her personal items ransacked and stolen, she made a beautiful, prayerful, calming and inspiring speech as she brought her House back to work, staying at that job until Thursday morning. Then giving Pence the directive and opportunity to do the right thing, knowing her numbers for impeachment would be strengthened if he failed to do so. “We have no choice but to impeach now.” And she’s almost 80 years old.

    • PunkyMomma says:

      Never bet against an Italian grandmother—they know all the angles. (I was raised by my Nonna—she could cut you down with a glare.)

    • Noodle says:

      @lightpurple, yes, just posted the same above. Pence probably knows he doesn’t have the 2/3 support he needs, especially as the rats are jumping ship to avoid having to make a decision. A FAILED 25th amendment removal would stoke the fire even more; do you really think Trump would go quietly for the good of the nation??

  13. Midnight@theOasis says:

    There needs to be accountability all around. From the news media and all the cult enablers (politicians and staff especially) who’ve stoked and allowed this nonsense. Who didn’t see this end game coming? No one gets brownie points for suddenly now finding a conscience and proclaiming their disgust and angst at what happened. It’s all so performative.

    **Also, it’s highly likely that there were foreign agents amongst the white domestic terrorists who invaded the Capitol for the sole purpose of stealing confidential classified documents and planting bugging devices throughout the building. The cost to sweep and ensure the integrity of the building is probably crazy.

  14. Tashiro says:

    I think impeachment is the way to go. From my understanding there’s not enough time to invoke the 25th amendment. There’s cabinet members and acting cabinet members and who the hell knows what else. The house should impeach and if the senate won’t take it up so be it, he can still be impeached and hopefully be prevented from running for public office again.
    I hope all these a-hole traitors do not get reelected and this shame follows them for the rest of their lives. I would put a curse on them but I don’t want that negativity coming back on me :)

  15. Leah says:

    Impeach and remove. I don’t want to hear anymore from Susan Collins about how “he learned his lesson”. Enough is enough.

  16. Veronica S. says:

    It needs to be record, IMO. These Senators who won’t vote to remove need to be shown for the cravenly ambitiously and moral cowards they are. If that’s the base you want to appeal to, Americans who care about their country need to know, and they need to be prepared for when Hawley or Cotton come knocking in 2024 with their second try at authoritarianism.

    • sa says:

      “It needs to be record, IMO. These Senators who won’t vote to remove need to be shown for the cravenly ambitiously and moral cowards they are.”

      THIS. I want Trump impeached and removed from office, but I also want every Senator who is STILL protecting Trump instead of protecting America to be on the record. I am not interested in letting any of these cowards rewrite history in a few years when Trump no longer has his rabid supporters.

  17. Eleonor says:

    What is beyond crazy to me, is that not even organizing a golpe can remove a Us president.
    As I said yesterday: you have a real problem, this is dictatorship.

  18. Thirtynine says:

    I hope Pelosi maintains her fire and gets it done. I admit I am a little scared that they will drop it again. with some excuse. I don’t think it matters that time is short, or that there will be riots. Somerimes you have to do the right thing, knowing there will be backlash, just because it is the right thing to do. No more excuses. 5 people are dead. Don’t let them get away with it.

  19. Winnie Cooper’s Mom says:

    I just want to know what dirt Trump has on Pence. After Wednesday, Pence should be motivated to invoke the 25th and get the process rolling. His life, along with many many others on the chamber floors, was threatened. If that doesn’t wake someone up enough to take necessary action, what will? I’m convinced Trump would unleash some damning information on Pence if Pence were to try and take action against Trump.

  20. Louisa says:

    Why are they waiting until Monday? It’s clear now that Pence is not going to do his job so start proceedings today. What is the point in waiting?

    • sa says:

      I’m *hoping* the reason they’re waiting until Monday is to get their ducks in a row, and making sure they have Republican support to actually remove him from office. Otherwise, the delay is unconscionable. Every minute this man remains in office puts America and Americans at risk.

  21. Josie Bean says:

    I am against impeachment – it will just cause more violence and people will get hurt or could even be killed. He only has 10 days left. Plus, I want Trump to run for President again because I fully believe that he will lose and he will tear the Republican Party apart. He will not go away and I sure don’t want one of his kids running for office.