At the end of the Oprah interview with the Duke and Duchess of Sussex, she said that she would go on CBS This Morning, with her BFF Gayle King, to reveal exclusive clips from the interview which didn’t make the special. Gayle King was primed for just how big this story has become as well. Here’s Gayle’s opening on This Morning, which is just a summary with clips from the official interview.
After that, This Morning began airing exclusive clips. Here’s an exclusive where Harry addresses racism in the UK and in the British press. In the interview last night, he directly said that the Royal Family has a racism problem: “For this union and the specifics around race there were opportunities for my family to show some public support. No one from my family ever said anything. That hurts.”
#EXCLUSIVE: Prince Harry reveals to @Oprah a “large part of” the reason he and Meghan left the UK was because of racism. #OprahMeghanHarry pic.twitter.com/ksAZWargg1
— CBS This Morning (@CBSThisMorning) March 8, 2021
Here’s a clip where Harry describes the circumstances around their return to the UK in January 2020, having made plans to immediately meet with the Queen at Sandringham, only to have those plans cancelled as they touched down in the UK. The Queen’s courtiers sent a message to him that suddenly the Queen was “busy all week.” He lays the blame for so much on the Queen’s idiotic advisers, which brings up a larger conversation (which Harry doesn’t have) about how out of touch the Queen is and how poorly advised she is.
In January 2020, Prince Harry and Meghan announced plans to step back as senior members of the Royal family. In this exclusive clip, they tell @Oprah they were then invited to spend time with his grandmother, the Queen, but the plans abruptly changed citing she's "busy all week." pic.twitter.com/dLhq0SAgfN
— CBS This Morning (@CBSThisMorning) March 8, 2021
Here’s Oprah spilling TEA. She says that the person in the royal family who spoke to him about the “skin color” of his children was not the Queen OR Philip. Charles? William? Hm.
Prince Harry and Meghan, Duke and Duchess of Sussex, sat down with @Oprah in their first major interview since stepping away from royal duties.@Oprah joins us exclusively with her reaction on that revealing interview. #OprahMeghanHarry pic.twitter.com/M4oqmbKGfR
— CBS This Morning (@CBSThisMorning) March 8, 2021
WATCH: @Oprah says “it was not his grandmother nor his grandfather” that were a part of the conversations about Prince Harry & Meghan's baby's skin color. #OprahMeghanHarry pic.twitter.com/LpPLmkUEFR
— CBS This Morning (@CBSThisMorning) March 8, 2021
TEA IS BEING SPILLED.
WATCH: @Oprah asks Prince Harry if family members reached out to apologize for the reasons he felt he had to leave.
“No, sadly not.” #OprahMeghanHarry pic.twitter.com/2NtGZcmB5A
— CBS This Morning (@CBSThisMorning) March 8, 2021
Photos courtesy of CBS.
Like I said in the other post, you can literally make a case for any one of them saying it from Philip (although he didn’t say it) to Zara and beyond. And that is not good.
But if you had to make me choose, I’d choose William.
There were things said that can’t be unsaid.
If you knew what I knew.
What do you know?? I had dealings with Clarence House for work last year, but I didn’t get any juicy gossip. Tell!!
Ang, she’s quoting Harry.
Spill it, Edna!!
My guess is william. And that’s probably why there was such a rift between the brothers. Remember when they were pushing out that harry was upset because william said something like “you dont know that woman, dont rush into it” but I think it was just a deflection to make sure the statement was about meghan not being adequate for the role and not his future child/color of skin. It could not have been charles because charles wouldnt have daily impacts – however for William, kate, their kids would be together, pictured together etc, there is a larger spectrum for him to imagine the impacts of a dark skin child on his life with the press. William is the weakest link here.
@Bibi I think you are right as well. Harry always was pictured with his brother or nearby. I distinctly remember an awkward clip of the family walking to the church at Windsor castle and Harry in front of William and Kate speeding up walking away. (Meghan wasn’t with them for some reason.) Seemingly, not wanting to be around his brother. I thought that was strange, because he always seemed happy to support his brother in public by standing near him throwing a quip his way so they could all smile and laugh in public. You could always tell how loving Harry was towards his brother and his brother’s wife. This was a new vibe.
My initial reaction was that it had to be Philip but now that it apparently wasn’t him, I’m stumped. I can’t really think of any other senior royal who be THAT racist (not even Charles) and as others have said in other posts if it was William would Harry every really be able to forgive that?
Now, if we’re including the entire family, perhaps Princess Michael of Kent, especially considering that horrible brooch she wore a few years ago?
But isn’t that the point. Let’s be real this isn’t “damaging” to a dude that was essentially raised by his Nazi sisters and can fill a whole book on the PUBLIC racist things he said. This CAN be “damaging” for either the future kings of England and the commonwealth. And it’s definitely “damaging “ for a dude in his 30s raising young children. It’s why I think it’s William. The wider public already has bad thoughts about Charles but to everyone offline William is still Prince Charming. Even white people who pretend racism finished the day MLK said I have a dream still know that talking about a 3/4 white unborn baby’s skin tone is racist. And if it’s of the younger generation, then no one can use the word modern or progressive to hand wave the fact that the monarchy is literally the oldest symbol of white supremacy in the modern world.
My first thought was Kate. Skin tone wouldn’t be beneath her.
I think it’s natural with any pregnancy to wonder what the baby will look like, right? And in a mixed race pregnancy, of course one wonders about skin tone. Nothing wrong with wondering. But having “concerns” about it—specifically, concerns about how it will look “for The Family”—that is the issue here. We don’t know specifically what concerns about skin tone were voiced, but the feeling is whoever spoke to Harry foresaw a potential problem. And THAT is where The Family should have stepped up in complete support. The Family should have been wisely preparing to deflect any racist comments that came from outside, and giving full unquestioned, loving support and protection to Harry, Meghan and their future children. Instead, they did the opposite. SHAMEFUL.
I think it was William precisely because their relationship fractured so completely. Those final appearances it was clear Harry was (to make a reference) incandescent with rage with William and I always wondered what could have happened to be that intense.
I think we know now.
The brooch was deliberate and unthinkable, but nothing that Princess Michael of Kent ever said would have had that profound and powerful an impact on Harry and Meghan. It was somebody closer. Charles? He was so kind and solicitous to Meghan at her wedding to Harry, though, and so very chivalrous to Meghan’s mother, that it’s hard to imagine it was Charles…and yet, it must have been him or William. My money is on William.
@Cat – it wouldnt have been Kate, she wouldnt be the one having conversations with Harry like that. It was definitely William.
I think it has to be Charles. In the interview, Harry says he loves William to bits. Things appear way more tense with Charles.
Obviously it was William. It was likely part of the same conversation where William told him to slow down, he hardly knew the girl, and did he ever think about what their kids would look like?
all my money is on william. and that’s why it was shocking because it’s expected of the older senior royals but not of the supposedly woke gen Y folks like the princes.
my gut was that it sounded like Philip would say. With him excluded, it must have been Charles or William – with Charles being so very emotionally stunted & socially obtuse coupled with having actually cut Harry off when they were in Canada, my gut is that it was Charles who said it and had no idea what a horrific thing it was to say
I think it is worth noting that Harry said he wants to mend his relationship with his father but said no such thing about mending his relationship with William.
My guess is that whoever said this would defend themselves as having said it out of “concern” for Harry and Meghan in some convoluted way. Like Charles might have thought he was saying “oh, people will react badly if they see a very brown baby so it’s best not to do a hospital photo.” Whereas the appropriate way to be ACTUALLY concerned for Harry/Meghan/Archie in that situation might be, “hey people will likely react badly to a hospital photo with a brown baby so we should talk about what security we might need and what sort of statements we need to put out to make it clear that this baby is one of us also. Or if you prefer not to do a photo that’s your call but we will be here to support you if you do.”
@Steph you nailed exactly why I believe it’s William. He’s barely mentioned and there is no interest in discussing that relationship. With Charles he’s specific about the dumb thing he did and he’s more open about wanting to mend that relationship.
Also Oprah says to Gayle that basically that Meghan’s relationship with her father is at the same place as Harry’s relationship with his brother, meaning there isn’t one.
It was Charles, hence Harry saying how disappointed he is in him, how he’s trying to rebuild their relationship, it’s the exact type of thing someone of his generation may say and has said in my own family of my mixed children. I don’t think it was William. It was definitely Charles and I thought that immediately when Harry said it in the interview
@Becks1 I don’t see it as a private conversation at all but one held with William, Kate and Charles. Or one William & Kate had that William decided to bring up to Harry. We can speculate to the end of days & not know. The only people who should have been discussing the baby’s features at all were Meghan & Harry. My late husband and I discussed what our daughter would look like while I was pregnant. Hair, skin, fingers and height. We would have been completely offended had someone else chose to discuss or question how light or dark she would be.
I’m voting Charles, Harry seemed much more emotional and hurt when he talked about his relationship with his father.
Let’s not ignore Megan’s statements about this issue. She stated that several conversations were had during her pregnancy. Harry said those conversations were had prior to the wedding during the girlfriend period. That means there were ongoing discussions where his potential children’s skin color kept being brought up. Harry would not have ongoing numerous conversations with princess Michael about his relationship with Meghan. I rule her out. When George was born Harry made comments about how rarely he sees Kate. In light of that then, there’s no way he’d have numerous discussions about his potential children’s skin color with Kate. Secondly, Harry is Charle’s son and still much higher in pecking order to Kate herself even though she will be future queen. Kate is higher than Harry only when she is together with William. That means Kate can’t have any such discussions with Harry on her own, so I rule her out. This leaves 2 guys higher than Harry in pecking order, his father and his brother. However, up until his vacation in Canada, Harry stated that him and Charles were still talking till he stopped taking his calls. Also, back in 2019 on the tour to Africa, Harry only had negative comments about his relationship with his brother, he never mentioned his father. Tom Bradby said things were said that can’t be unsaid, and I’m betting my last dollar these racist comments are some of those things, and Harry clearly said the relationship between him and his brother was no longer existent. When i add all this together, my conclusion is William.
It was William. We know it was a male because Meghan referred to the person as ‘he’ and so did ‘Harry.’ William was too smug on the wedding day and since he was the one who told Harry to slow down and called Meghan ‘that girl” – I bet my bottom dollar it was that “brother” of Harry.
@runaway, I thought it was Charles too, only because of how Meghan stated it would be damaging to the person; meaning, the person already has problems with the media & the public; this would just make it worse. But then again, it still could have been william, kate, carole, anne, the cousins, etc.
I think you nailed it BABSORIG….. Harry also stated he wants to try and rebuild his relationship with his father. All he said about William is that there is now space. You can love someone and not like them and know that loving them doesn’t change the toxicity they direct toward you or someone you love. I really think the huge racist in the woodpile is William, although I think racism is endemic in that family. They just don’t get it as they live in this rarefied, white, bubble of privilege and sycophancy. And how would it be damaging to Charles and not to William? Both are heirs to the throne and want to keep the Commonwealth together.
I’m with you and @Minx, going off the cue of the emotions he showed. I would have the same response if I married a black woman and my father said such a thing about our baby who is his very own flesh and blood.
Your first baby, which a person always dreams of having and dreams of bringing to their parents so proudly to love unconditionally. But instead then they said that to you?!
If a sibling said it, I’d say well f*ck ’em, they’re just my sibs. We don’t have to like each other. Siblings clash, that’s not unusual even though it’s not ideal.
But ugh, your own parent that would gut you to hear. You’d be shocked.
If it was Charles that said it and not William, then what is the rift with William about? Why is Harry able to list Charles’ betrayals–he stopped taking Harry’s calls, cut off finances, cut off security but the rift with William has no cause? Everyone knows the brothers fell out and now we know there was a deadly conversation that Harry said he will never reveal but after a two-hour interview with all sorts of bombshells, William is on the record for nothing. Fill in the blanks, guys, as to who is being protected.
WORD.
Harry said the racist comments were made early on, when they were dating. He seemed still fine with both William and Charles at the wedding. So my guess is it’s not them. Family is a wide term and even people like princess Michael count as Harry’s family
Oh, I don’t think Harry could have blocked either his father or his brother from his wedding. That was going to happen the way it happened. Harry said someone said to him early on ‘but what will the kids look like’? And that person kept bringing it up. That seems to suggest, to me, that the person was really close to Harry so I’m with others on this, I’m banking on it being William.
I really think if it wasn’t William or Charles, Harry would have included them when he said it wasn’t the Queen or Philip. He’d have said it wasn’t a senior member or it wasn’t anyone in his immediate family.
I’m interested to see how quickly dad throws son or son throws dad under the bus. I can’t imagine the innocent party is going to be okay with the speculation that it may have been them.
There were several stories put out around the one year anniversary where the Sussexes released behind the scenes photos from their wedding day, where it was alluded to that Harry was not happy with William and had to suck it up for the wedding. Several reports said it was obvious even on the wedding day that Harry and William had something going on between them. I’m putting my money on William.
Same think it is William as well.
Take this for what it’s worth, but a comment on DM with alleged inside knowledge claimed that it was Anne who made these remarks.
Cmon it was 1000% William!
Didn’t Meghan tie the conversation about his skin color to the decision made to change the Charles V or Charles VI rules to mean that Archie would not be titled a “prince” when Charles takes the throne?
If I am remembering correctly, and if William was not in a position to change the rules, then it was some policy maker in the household or a senior family member, right?
(Was the rule ever officially changed?)
Yes, Meghan did make that link. She made it obvious that the person informing them that Archie wouldn’t get a title or paid security is the same person worried about skin color (which is disgusting. What is the wrong skin color, hair etc.? Easy to guess).
All that points to Charles, since he is the next king, not Wills.
I also wonder if Camilla, Charles’s wife, was the one who told Meghan she was going out too often. Had to be somebody senior, because Meghan appears to have agreed to stay out of sight.
I noticed that Meghan never expressed any liking for Camilla. In fact, Meghan said a friend of Diana’s had been very helpful. In other words, somebody from the other camp.
Oprah says on the clip that it was not the Queen nor Philip.
WILLIAMMMMMMM
I think given the obviously close relationship Harry has with his grandparents, it either wasn’t them or he would have forgiven them like many people forgive their grandparents for saying weirdly racist things and then we wouldn’t have heard about it.
Clearly Charles or William. One of the future kings.
I can’t believe what I’m reading. I am appalled at you all for accusing william. Deep down I don’t think it’s William because the man dedicated a full twenty-two minutes of his life fighting racism in soccer.
haha bless your cottons socks Madelaine..that’s pure gold!
You almost had me for a minute!
I was gearing up for a sharp remark until the last sentence. 🤣
Comment of the week!
@Bibi – You are 100% correct.
The conversation was in the context of rushing into marriage. After all, William waited 10 years to marry Kate. (!) So, I can see William counseling – let’s wait on this. It follows naturally, in such a conversation, to discuss the ramification of marriage. One of them would OBVIOUSLY be the color of the child.
Here, I give William a break because families discuss the children, the fiancé’s family, whether they’ll fit in, etc. If William did indeed ask what color of the children would be—that is in keeping with his reported boorish personality, not to mention a hugely insensitive, hurtful remark. But then, of course, W was probably thinking of the optics.
Guys! It just hit me listening to Prince Henry that the queen’s advisers ate those who decide who she’s allowed to meet and under what circumstances, which candidly but brutally leads me to realize that the queen herself is not even the head or commander of the Firm: she simply happens to be the Firm’s top-ranking employee. Even a local Sicilian godfather would have more decision-making power than the actual non-commander of the Firm. So who exaclty is behind the Firm puppets?
I think Meghan and Harry linked the discussions about Archie’s skin colour to the refusal to give him a title and security. As I understand it – and not an expert at all – but only Charles has the power to cut them off financially (which would also affect their security). This makes me think that this can be laid at Charles’ door (initially) and then probably also included William. Perhaps one of the reasons Meghan feels so betrayed is that she believed Charles had genuine affection for her (wedding shenanigans with Thomas Markle etc) but later discovered that he was behind the comments to Harry about Archie’s skin colour.
I’m thinking it must be the reason they moved away from Wills and Kate so leaning towards William but probably told to ‘talk to your brother’ by chuck or liz
I think it was Camilla. I think she is a waste of space and doesn’t have the brain she was born with. Anyone who would destroy a marriage by having an affair is a horrible person. Poor Diana never had a chance!
I’m still thinking it was William – maybe William AND Charles, since they mentioned there were multiple conversations, but definitely William. I think Harry made a point in the interview of emphasizing his relationship with his grandmother and how strong it is. I think she is being controlled by the courtiers and Harry knows it. I wonder how with it she actually is, mentally, at this point.
Even Meghan seemed to smile at the mention of the Queen and when Oprah asked about the Quean being able to do what she wants, the look on Meghan’s face was like… “yeah, no.”
I was kind of surprised at how dumbfounded Oprah acted about that, considering she claims to have watched The Crown. This isn’t 1521—its 2021. The English monarchy is not what it once was! “The Institution” is hanging on for dear life….which is why they were really such idiots to reject Meghan. Meghan & Harry were their best, perhaps last chance to remain relevant into the 21st century. They so blew it.
If it weren’t for the Crown, I’m not sure how any of us on this side of the pond could possibly understand that it’s the courtiers and not the Queen running the show. Until Season 4, the Crown is pretty sympathetic to Liz and suggests she had to struggle to learn her role, but by Season 4 she’s fully adapted to the ruthless culture of maintaining the illusion of the monarchy at all costs. So, is there some truth to it that Liz has a soft side to her that H & M saw, or are they playing this very carefully in absolving Liz and Philip of any blame?
I think Harry confirmed what we’ve all been thinking: HM isn’t running things anymore. It’s her courtiers and Charles is essentially Prince Regent.
She’s also nearly 95. No matter how “sharp” you were when you’re young, you’re not going to be all there when you’re in your mid 90s – whether you’re the Queen or not.
So true. My ninety-something relative has no signs of dementia, but even with early bedtime and a couple substantial naps a day, there are definitely times where they get very confused, utterly forgets where they’re going or who they’re talking to, and then gets flustered and then it all sort of compounds itself. We were very glad when they agreed to give up the car. Can’t imagine anyone that age truly making the command decisions for running an international organization on her own.
I think, too, you don’t care as much anymore when you’re 95. You’re not going to be around that much longer. You’re tired. You’re weary of crises and pettiness. It’s easy to say, Oh, do it your way. You take care of this.
I don’t think it was William, because if it was would Harry be saying that their relationship is “space” and that time heals all wounds? I don’t think you can ever come back from a comment like that. I thought Harry made it pretty clear that his brother has chosen protecting the monarchy over protecting him (and is terrified of the tabloids), but he does contemplate them repairing their relationship after some time apart.
I believe it was William and Charles. They wouldn’t even realize that statement was racist.
I agree. I think plenty of people want it to be William but I think it’s more likely to be an older member of the extended family. I know William can be bad and say dumb things but I really find it hard to believe he would say something like that. It’s not just racist but also uneducated and naive.
At one point of them confirmed it was a senior royal – so its not the Duke of Gloucester or even someone like Mike Tindall.
It has to be either Charles or William, we know that William and Harry had a conversation when he was dating Meghan that apparently fractured their relationship pretty significantly, this kind of comment fits with that. They did say there were multiple conversations, so it is entirely possible that it was both, but I think William first raised it to Harry.
@GraceB
I think you’re being way too generous to William. I doubt a single person in his life has pushed him to expand his mind in any way that is uncomfortable for him.
I know plenty of normal people my age (30’s) who are ignorant when it comes to racism and say racist stuff that they don’t think is offensive. William probably knows enough to not say that sort of stuff publicly, but privately to a family member is a whole different ball game
eta: And it’s telling that Harry said he had to ‘do the work’ on learning about things like unconscious bias AFTER he started dating Meghan.
It CAN’T be both Charles and William. Oprah’s question was “can you tell me who that PERSON is”?. So numerous conversations between Harry and this PERSON where said lerson kept bringing up the potential children’s skin color and what it wouldmake the institutionlook like. In previous interviews, Harry has stated how he couldn’t get any meetings with either his father or his grandmother for long periods of time. He would make appointments through their courtiers but said appointments would be canceled last minute, or he would be told how their schedules were full for the foreseeable future. So IMO, that leaves one person Harry could have numerous conversations with: William.
BABSORIG – Your logic holds up here. I have no idea whether or not Charles would say this sort of thing, but Charles is pretty much guaranteed to be monarch (really at any time) while Wills is probably much more concerned about what will be left for him if that curtain is pulled back. I still don’t quite understand what Archie has to do with it, though, other than challenging some mythology around Anglo bloodlines. But whether Charles or William, whoever pushed that angle wasn’t shut down nor were any of the endlessly racist articles about them, so the whole RF is complicit.
I think it’s William. The fact that both times the issue of skin color was followed by questions about William and the fact that Harry basically acknowledged they have no relationship to speak of– and “hopefully” will again at some stage– points to PWT. And for as much of an awful arse as I think Charles is, this is right up William’s alley.
The subtext and everything unspoken but tacitly acknowledged if you have followed what’s been going on for years is fascinating…and heartbreaking for M, H, and A.
I’m thinking William. You would have to feel pretty comfortable/close with someone to say something like that. That means proximity too.
It was said when they were getting engaged supposedly, and William had questioned how well he knew her, was he sure she was the one. A racist question like have you thought about children would fit in there unfortunately.
It was absolutely part of the “are you sure” conversations. It was William.
I mean… the bridesmaid’s dress story turned out to be true, just flipped. The story about his brotherly advice was probably true too, just without the other half of the sentence. (“Are you sure you want to marry her… & risk having babies with dark skin?”)
He is defensive of his grandmother and he made it clear several times she really isn’t the main person behind them exiting. It seems she is the only one he is in contact and sounds like several times a week.
Earl Spencer , his uncle.
@sushi. Earl Spencer is not a member of the Royal family
Tigerlily -Earl Spencer is a member of Harry’s family.
@Becks1 … “I’m still thinking it was William – maybe William AND Charles, since they mentioned there were multiple conversations, but definitely William.”
Don’t forget that William asked his Uncle Charles, Diana’s brother, to talk sense to Harry, which evidently made Harry more incensed toward William.
I believe it was William.
There were parts where he talked about wanting Charles to pick up the phone (now) and he seems to currently be in contact with him some but has completely iced out William. He wants to work it out with his Father. That leads me to think it is William.
I think we’ll soon know for certain because all the non-guilty ones will be publicly eliminated. We’re only a day in and 2 are alredy out of the equation.
We just have to wait which one won’t deny it.
Yup! If it was either William OR Charles, I expect a leak from the non-offending party. It’s just too irresistible and they love throwing each other under the bus.
Honestly, I thought from the moment I heard it that the it was Charles or Baldy. Everyone knows Phillip’s racist—they wouldn’t talk about damage if it had been him. But if it’s Charles or Baldy…the future monarch after Petty Betty kicks the bucket….and you combine that with Andrew, the recent revelations about sketchy influence on laws, the general public distaste for Chuck, etc…..it would absolutely set up the monarchy to end. The papers would HAVE to address it if the future monarch or the direct heir was racist towards their grandson/nephew…with Phillip they could spin it as “he’s old, he doesn’t know better.”
Now, I’m worried I’m going to be bashed for this (I am a Sussex supporter)….but I really believe they (specifically Harry) should have named names. Burn the whole f*cking thing down Naming the person guilty of the Archie racism controversy would have been a huge blow. For whatever reason, I think they’re still loyal to Petty Betty so they won’t do so because they don’t want to have the monarchy collapse when she’s alive….
HOWEVER, I wonder if this was taped post smear job in the Times of London if Harry would have said who it was….
Harry played this smart. Not naming them is future leverage. This is going to be insurance for the future attacks coming.
To unload all your ammo at the start of a war isn’t smart.
Exactly. They could both have said so much more. Now it’s the sword of Damocles.
Very good point. They specifically withheld certain items.
💯 “Leave us the f*** alone or we will come for you.” They’ve proven that they’re willing to do it if they have to.
if it was Chuck he’s savyy enough to know after this to keep his mouth shut – however, if it was William a ‘leak’ about it is forthcoming. The press genius is very good at shooting himself in the head.
@ Digital unicorn I’m cracking up that you skipped shooting himself in the foot and went straight to the head 😅 so true
Not naming them is almost worse. Now everyone is suspect and we’re all speculating on it. Naming names would give them a chance to do damage control, but how can you do that when no one wants to admit it was them?
It was William. I think all those stories that said Harry was mad because William warned him not to rush into anything with Meghan were the whitewashed version of the real story, which was William telling Harry that he would disgrace his family if he married that [redacted] – just think about how dark your children will be, we can’t have [redacteds] running around as royals.
I swear I can see this conversation happening and I think it fits in with the stories we heard about William “trying to protect” Harry from rushing in.
I said this above, but if this was the case do we really think Harry would have said that their relationship was “space” and that time heals all wounds? I just have trouble believing that Harry would even contemplate a continued relationship with William if he had made a comment like that.
He did say later that his family is entrenched in a certain environment and basically is not educated when it comes to matters of race and bias…..he was hoping to be the one to help teach them and bring them into the 21st century. So while he’s almost all the way done, I can also see that he might want to give them another chance if they were willing to do the work to change their views on race. (Don’t quote me though!)
I think it was fairly obvious that Harry was holding back quite a lot. There was plenty more he could have said but he was still pulling punches, probably due to a mix of not wanting to give specifics of anything that would just end up giving the tabloids even more to run with, and not wanting to further anger those within the family and palace that are even now attacking Meghan through the media and making god knows what kinds of threats to their safety, either directly or indirectly.
Wasn’t there all that talk by Bradby about “something that cannot be unsaid” happening around the time of the wedding? I think this is it, and I think it’s why we never saw chummy fab four anything, because Harry found out quite quickly that all the fake smiles and mediocre support before and during the wedding was all just a facade and they actually hated his wife, hated his decision and actively wanted them to fail.
But this didn’t happen before the wedding, this was when she was pregnant.
In that new clip released this morning he said that he will “always support William”. It feels like he took great pains to not blow up the relationship with Will, and I just don’t think he would have done that if William made a comment like this (unless what swirlmamad suggested above is true – which very well could be. William could have asked the question but Harry believes it was out of ignorance rather than malice/intended racism? And now he hopes William examines himself like he says he did when he met Meghan).
I’m the BIPoC in-law to a bunch of racists who happen to also be PoC (not black or indigenous, but white supremacists all the way), and even I hold out hope that they can change and heal their minds/perspectives and be more tolerant, tolerable people. I choose to interact with the lot of them in as limited a way as possible, as does my husband. Even though it really hurts him to distance himself from his closest family, their attitudes and behaviors hurt more. If they change, I’ll do the work to forgive and move forward. If they never do, I’m fine never seeing them again. So I get Harry saying/thinking that repairing his familial relationships could be possible, just as I understand Meghan’s “I can’t lose more than I’ve already lost” attitude.
This is as far as Harry is willing to go because Harry is a good person and he knows 1) Will does not have the personal inner tools to survive being outed like this.
2) Will, when cornered, lashes out in horribly damaging ways.
Harry told what happened to get the truth out there, but Harry said the exact same phrase–that he loved his brother to bits and they will always be connected two years ago when interviewed by Tom Bradby. It is the sound bite that Harry says to make the inquiry go away. I think Harry would not betray William because he knows exactly what a mess William really is and that William has to be the one to help himself; Harry can’t force it.
I’m confused about when this comment about skin color happened, Harry made it seem like it was early on in their relationship but I thought Meghan said she was pregnant.
@Jess and @LNG – there were multiple conversations. I think Meghan used the word “ongoing.” So my guess is that William brought it up first, in that pre-wedding talk about “this girl” etc, and that was the start of the rift between them, and then it kept getting brought up – maybe just William, maybe William and Charles. But my guess is that William was the first.
Also Harry was clear that he is actively working on repairing his relationship with his father, but his relationship with William is “space.” that was very telling IMO.
I am with you 100% on this. It was William all the way.
[commented in the wrong place]
@ Sunday, I have to say Baldy because he told Harry he didn’t need to rush the relationship with “that girl”, if memory serves me correctly.
He’s the type of shit that would say something like that. He’s becoming more incandescent with rage as each hair follicle falls out.
I believe it was William because there has been previous reporting I think from Tom Bradby that William said something early in the relationship when Harry was dating Meghan that was basically unforgivable. Plus it fits all the other racist remarks William makes and his love for Brexiteers.
Bingo!
100%
Agreed.
Yes, others have said that William is politically right wing.
Allow me to assist. He grimaces when he smiles at peasants. He punches down when he banters. His words and his actions do not match. He doesn’t work often so he can spend more time with his family but doesn’t spend more time with his family because he works often, at least that’s what he told her. He likes to prune roses is what I am saying. He is prone to anger, incandescently so. His looks and hair has deserted him ages ago.
I have come to think that his comment about not spending enough time with his children as he would like, really meant that to spend time with his children he’d have to also spend time with his wife and MIL. It’s obvious that they live apart with separate lives.
He also gave a speech in Africa telling them not to have too many children and his own wife was pregnant within months of that speech. William is not the enlightened 39 year old that people want to believe he is.
I’d guess William. There are no pictures of William with Archie, except for the group picture. And he knows Harry could blurt these conversations out anytime to damage whatever reputation he has, so for his strategy (which he smugly thinks he’s so clever at), he decided to make racism (in football) his “cause” so that he can have his defense. Or one of those dimbulb gold plated advisers told him to do that. But of course no minority footballer out there believes him and has even @ him. He is even more spoiled than Charles so with that upbringing he would be shooting off his mouth about minorities and every slur he knows. Yeah I hope the SEO picks this up: asshole future King William the Brat.
I think it was Charles. I felt like in the interview…Harry was more “bothered” ( can’t find the right word. Agitated?) when talking about Charles than William. Do I think William is an A hole? Absolutely. Do I think William was an a hole to Meghan from the start? Heck yes. But my gut feeling is Charles is the ringleader. History repeating itself, just like they said…
I still think William made the initial remarks, then he went to Charles to make it policy and got the family on board with not giving Archie a title nor providing protection.
I agree with you, it was Charles.
I think it was Charles and Camilla.
too many glasses of white wine from Camilla was my thought. This is some boomer nonsense coached as speculation
@Carmen- I’m with you. I think this was Charles AND Camilla and I think that’s what really pushed Harry over the edge. He was able to accept Camilla after EVERYTHING and the same acceptance wasn’t shown to him. I think that’s when it really resonated with him that these people are TRASH.
I think William made the initial comment about Archie’s skin color.
Harry seemed like he was over William but truly angered by Charles. Perhaps Harry’s anger for Charles was due to having his security stripped and not doing more to protect Harry and his family.
Yes. And Harry said the family cut them off financially as well as their protection. I believe he would hold Charles responsible for that. Additionally, Charles stopped taking his calls so there were major issues between them.
I agree that Harry seemed more emotional talking about Charles, but I think that’s because at the core of it he still hopes to reconcile things eventually with his father. On the flip side I think he may have resigned himself that a reconciliation with Will is out the window at this point. He was very matter-of-fact, glossed over it, and gave that same canned response (we’ll always be brothers, been through the same shared hellish experience, etc) he’s been giving all along when asked about Will. I think he feels that ship may have sailed.
Excellent point. He may be less emotional about the relationship with William bc they both know it is well and truly severed where he is trying to repair the one with his father. He said Charles is taking his calls now but he didn’t seem terribly excited or hopeful.
I think he was angry at Charles over the security and thats why he was visibly more upset when talking about him. I think that was a huge dealbreaker for Harry in terms of his relationship with his family.
I think Harry was agitated with Charles for pulling his money and security and leaking their location. He said and I quote, “My dad knows what it is to hurt and feel pain after loss. Why would he do that.”
The racist comment was most definitely William as William has had several incidences of publicly saying “casually racist” sh*t. It was most def. William and then he got everyone else on board.
Charles took away his security, the hinge of everything here.
I think Will said it but Charles is the malicious one. Not defending Charles but he seems to be more open and interested as a person in general (environment etc.) Will seems zero woke for anything
It’s William. They wouldn’t have left had it been PP or Liz; while frustrating, they could have brushed it off about 100yo being racist and soon dead so such comments won’t affect their children in the future. Same for Michael of Kent: who cares what the wife of a 3rd cousin will say when she’s 1) old and will too be gone soon, and 2) easily avoidable and forgettable.
With William though and using this as a way to convince H to end the relationship, you can predict to have to deal with such BS for the rest of your life and it will affect the children. It’ll get even worst once Chuck is out and W becomes King (which, I’m not certain will happen or at least, he might not be King anymore by the time he dies).
Camilla.
My money’s on Charles. He is the only one that Harry kind of, sort of, attacks. He is angry with William, but I think Charles was the one leading the charge.
I think he is disappointed with Charles but he is angry with William, that’s why he needs that space from William or he would also fly in a rage and box that Asshole Future King William the Raging Racist Nutcase. Harry is a seasoned and trained fighter. He can punch William within a heartbeat. That space helps. He also can’t believe His brother, who knew how their mother was treated and tortured, turned out like this. That stuff hurts more.
I think the opposite – he’s very angry with William and thats why he is never mentioned. He’s clearly angry and disappointed in Charles but they are trying to work on their relationship.
IA. Also, it came across to me that Harry seemed to want to heal that rift with his father. Not so with William.
I agree. There is hope in fixing things with Charles, but nothing about William except vague comments. He’s a Virgo and as one myself, there is a time when you are so mad that you just cut off that person altogether. Seems like that’s what happened here.
If it was William and happened early in the relationship, can you imagine how hard it must have been for Harry and Meg (especially Meg) to show up to those events and sit next to him? Ugh. He is the worst and I hate his smug potato face even more today.
They spoke fondly of the Queen and Philip saying it wouldn’t be “damaging” to them, so this isn’t surprising. I know none of us can stand Will, but think it’s Charles in this case. Because Harry couldn’t even hide his anger about him.
I wish the part with Harry acknowledging his role is different from William’s and the how the press coverage about “Waity Katie” made it in the prime time broadcast. Meghan’s quote about rude v. racist coverage was SPOT ON.
I agree on one hand but on the other I think that the comments would have gotten lost in everything else. This way by releasing them separately they’re going to get their own play.
This isn’t going away anytime soon. What got released yesterday is being covered today and then what got released today will be covered tomorrow etc, etc.
I can’t wait for tomorrow when the shit starts to fly out of CH and KP. They won’t be able to help themselves.
Agreed. This was really illustrative and telling. And M’s note that “rude and racist are not the same thing” is powerful. I wish that had been included last night. (Oprah told Gayle it was a 3.5 interview edited down to 1.20.) Man, I really feel for both of them.
I think it was William. We know he was nice to Meghan at first when she was just a girlfriend and Kate didn’t even bother to meet her. Then once William saw Harry was really serious about Meghan he was worried about things moving too fast with “that girl.” I can totally see “but what will the kids look like” being part of those conversations.
I’m going definitely William with Charles possibly adding in. Harry is too pissed for words, but still trying to protect that person. Definitely not Camilla. He would have put her name out there.
I been saying it was Chuck since yesterday after Meghan stated that. There was a ton of reasons he stopped taking Harry’s call and this was at the top of the list. Harry must have gone OFF when it was said and Chuck being Chuck became petty and left them to their own devices and cut them off financially.
I think it was William.
Seems that Harry was still willing to communicate with Charles (even if he refuses to pick up the phone for his own son), but when it comes to William he prefers to have “space” and remain distant. I think that’s very telling.
Don’t worry. We’ll all find out who it is. We just need to wait for Kensington and Clarence to turn on other again…and then again…and then again.
Also Camilla scoffing at missing Meghan after Megxit, looks waaaaaaaaay different.
Billy for sure.
Billy would not even acknowledge Archie has his nephew.
That says a lot.
This Asshole Future King is so thick in the head that he told non white people to reduce their birth rates.
He has never mentioned Archie or Meghan by name, has he?
Meg bringing up the Waity Kate-y remark! Not the same as the attacks (including from Duchess Doolittle) Meghan faced!
I’m glad she brought that up because I have been seeing that thrown out a lot on social media lately by the Kate stans. “Kate had it bad toooooo! They called her Waity Katie! They were soooo mean to her tooooo!!”
I wish Oprah would have included a screenshot of the racist and rude comments on the Kensington Palace Instagram account. Yes, they reference social media, but it’s the allowing of derogatory comments, the pile-on of Meghan on their own account which they control is another angle to the abuse that KP allowed to persist. It was not just the relationship with the tabloids, it was that Kensington Palace provided and monitored a platform where the abuse went on, and did nothing to stem it despite the fact that it is easy to delete comments.
Lets be real folks. Everyone asks about skin tone in biracial infants even black folks. The first thing everyone does after the chil is born is look at the ears and the – well you know. Thought the interview was very well done. Same screaching and attacks on Meghan by the ususal suspects engaged in the gaslighting in the first place.
As the mother of 2 biracial children…..no, no one ever asked me “how dark my kids would be” before or immediately after they were born. And if they did, I would’ve gone all the way off. In no way shape or form was this acceptable or appropriate to ask, and straight-up ignorant and racist at worst.
Lee, they were “concerned” about what the baby’s color would be. As in they did not want a brown-skinned or even olive-skinned blood royal. That goes way beyond curiosity or old school practices. That is racist.
Not to mention denying Archie security a title and wanting to change that 1917 law so that he would never be titled as a Prince once Charles ascends to the throne
This is a real problem in Asia too.
No they don’t. Or I should say, only racist people do.
@Lee this is sick. Is that in African American culture? (Genuinely asking). As someone with biracial children, these kinds of comments were never made to me (I am half black half Arab)
When Black people do it, it is STILL cringe. Like I HATE that. I hate this “Does she/he have good hair?” talk that happens when a baby is born too.
I think it’s Camilla. They didn’t even mention her yesterday and all I keep thinking about is when Camilla was obsessed with hugging MM during an event…
Please stop. Meghan said that if she named the person, it would be damaging. Camilla is known worldwide for sleeping with a married man and gaslighting his young bride. Her reputation has been damaged from the day she was introduced to the public.
Agree Mimi. Camilla is a non-entity here. Plus she’s just the “evil stepmother”….I don’t think Harry would ultimately have any qualms about blowing her up if she were behind it. (And I don’t even think Camilla cares all that much about any of this anyway. She’s just doing her at this point) Whoever it is, they still want to protect to an extent and the only people that makes sense for is Charles/Will.
It’s unlikely that Camilla would be free enough to say anything like that to Harry. It’s William, hands down.
After thinking on it, I don’t think Camilla would care enough to make any remarks like this, nor about what look the BRF would have because of a light-skinned royal. She’s just happy to be along for the ride and ultimately isn’t a part of royal history in the same way “royal parents” are. So to me, that leaves Charles and William since Kate is a “good person” in Meghan’s eyes.
What about Princess Michael of Kent? She was the one to wear the Blackamoor pin when meeting Meghan? I could definitely see her asking about his skintone and speculating with glee.
Princess Michael wouldn’t be “damaging” and does someone ever talk with the wife of his grandma’s first cousin?
And then there’s Earl Spencer and his watermelon cake.
But I think both of these are too distant family to be a part of this story.
No one cares about that old witch Princess Michael of Kent.
Not a Senior Royal.
@DAILYNIGHTLY. Princess Michael is not a senior Royal. She has zero influence or standing.
It was all of them. Whoever it was initially, I can see plenty of ‘hushed’ convos at gatherings. Can’t you hear them? And then subtly snickering behind a drink in the hand, nodding heads in smug satisfied agreement? Each one is a version of Cruella de Vil. Cruel devils from top to bottom laced with evil peasant journalists and working class dogs who jump for spotted dick.
I agree. What was made extremely clear during the interview is that racism is entrenched within the system. Oprah asked “who,” and Meghan replied “I think it would be very damaging to THEM.” There’s no doubt that she used the plural deliberately, possibly so as to not reveal the gender of the individual, but I also think she’s speaking the truth– that it was multiple individuals.
She indicated that there were several conversations with Harry. In a family such as the RF, I believe these conversations would have come from all corners– some more aggressively and crudely than others, some more “reasonably.” William is the rage monster with an anger problems and has no issue with saying whatever comes to mind; Charles is careful with his words and is also the one with extensive experience playing insidious play mind games.
I believe that everyone made comments about Archie’s skin. I think Harry and Meghan necessarily distinguish between casual racism and the ones intended to insult, abuse, dehumanize.
The point about security and letters patent (or whatever they’re called), I actually think was a rare moment of agreement between William and Charles. Charles from racism disguised as concern about the Crown’s finances, William from pure, unadulterated, can’t have the bloodline muddied racism. If what we suspect regarding Buckingham Palace is true– that Charles is the real power behind the throne– then we have to attribute a large number of the smears out of BP to actually come from Charles, using his mother as a convenient shield while leaving his own house seemingly untouched.
I also think that Carole had a hand in this– she work for YEARS to get her daughter into the royal family and to suddenly have Meghan appear on the scene, upstage Kate, fear that H&M’s children would be more popular than her own grandchildren– people who are not accepted by an institution they desperately want to be a part of who suddenly see an outsider achieve in less than what– a year?– what they’ve striven for their entire lives are the biggest gatekeepers by virtue of insecurity. And we’ve speculated for a long time that Carole does have some pull with William.
@LaraW – I dont know what to think about the security and letters patent. I think that was the weakest part of the interview, in that I thought it was confusing and hard to follow. Were they saying Archie could not have a title, and that’s why he does not go by one of Harry’s lesser titles? Were they saying he would not be a prince now and they were going to change the rules so he would never be a prince? Were they saying that they refused to change the letters patent like they did for the Cambridges so he would be a prince eventually but not now?
Refusing the change the letters patent is petty and they absolutely could have done that. I couldnt get a feel from the interview whether or not Meghan wanted Archie to be a prince – it sounds like she did, but only because that’s what they were tying the security to that? So if he was HRH Prince Archie, he would be entitled to security, so of course she wanted that?
Anyway – I can see William and Carole and Kate pushing for the lack of titles for Archie, that way their kids are the only princes/princess of this generation. And all their grandkids will be prince/ss if William is king, so it seems like a win-win for them.
If I recall correctly, Meghan tried to go into some of the history of the grandchild title thing (she started saying something about Charles V or something), but Oprah cut her off. I think Oprah was right to cut her off because 1. It would bore US audiences, 2. It would break the emotional flow of the interview, and 3. It would break the clear line that showed how questions about baby’s skin color were directly tied to the denial of title and therefore the denial of a protective detail for the baby. I think Oprah wanted to really hammer home to audiences the WORST example of racism by the palace.
I definitely agree that it’s confusing and that for royal watchers, we want to know the mechanics of the protocol.
But I’m hoping that after our UK CBs watch the interview, they’ll be able to shed more light on the whole tangled titles thing.
The letters patent of George V of 1917 were changed for William’s kids before George was born. Prior to that if Charlotte had been the first child then she would not have been HRH and the first male child only would have it. It was changed to all of his kids.
So in theory it could have been changed to include Harry’s kids. It was not.
The part about security is unrelated to the letters patent and they could and should have provided security for the first mixed race child in generations and whose parents were already getting threats.
@Nic
I agree that the security should be unrelated, but Meghan made it clear in the interview that the palace used it as justification for withholding security for Archie. She stated she didn’t care about the titles, but she cared about the protection– and the palace made those two things contingent on each other.
Racism in families and institutions is not something that is led by one person, and it’s not solved by getting rid of that one person. They are all complicit. I can easily imagine Charles talking about this to Camilla and her making grotesque comments and support his views. I can see Charles consulting with his advisors– and whatever we may say about William being more popular among the public, I have no doubt that Charles has a much deeper and broader hold on power within the palace itself.
I’m not saying that it’s an organized conspiracy in the sense that they all sat down and had a closed door meeting about the “Meghan situation.” I think it was a tacit understanding, a series of ongoing conversations between all of them, their aides and the courtiers that things have to be done a certain away, and allowing black blood to mix into the pure blue is Not How Things Are Done and Goes Against the Institution.
Charles cut off the money. Charles cut off the protection while they were in Canada. I think Charles was the one who made the decision regarding security– I think many people were involved in the discussions about Archie’s title, including Carole. As for the color of his skin, I think it was everyone but that William was the most egregious. No one is innocent, and yet no one is completely responsible for every aspect, because it was a decision arrived upon silently and unanimously. They are all culpable.
This isn’t like the United States where people take cues from the leadership on how racist a workplace is allowed to be. This is more like the environment of tech companies, dominated by men, where there is only one women’s bathroom in the building, and it’s completely acceptable and expected to participate in casual talk denigrating women’s intelligence, stealing their work, making rape jokes, paying them far less but making them do more work because it’s part of the institution. Any complaints to HR don’t go anywhere because that would mean taking disciplinary actions and/or firing 70% of the male workforce in the company.
I interpreted Harry’s anger towards his father as betrayal– and extremely fresh betrayal at that. His statements about trying to heal the rift between his father sounded to me like someone who hasn’t yet come to terms with the fact that this is not a rift that will ever be healed– that in order to try and heal it, it would come a huge cost to Harry’s mental health and self esteem. If the power behind BP is Charles, that means the moving of Philip between hospitals and the narrative of “how can they air this interview while Philip is ill” ultimately comes from Charles, and it feels a lot more like Charles’ MO to try to emotionally blackmail his son to silence, just as he did Diana. Especially since we know now that Harry’s relationship with his grandparents is much closer and much improved.
With William, I think Harry has made his peace. He’s clearly of the mind that whatever happens in the future is whatever happens in the future. The vague “time heals all wounds” was an empty platitude– a polite, diplomatic answer– but he didn’t sound like he believed it. With Charles, he’s still in the middle of trying to process it. After all, Charles never protected Harry from the press when he was younger; I would not be surprised if Charles was the one who forced Harry to resign from the military.
William is an emotionally abusive rage monster– Charles plays mind games. I wonder if Harry has been reevaluating to what extent Charles manipulated the circumstances of Harry’s life, especially now that Harry is a father himself.
One of the major themes throughout the interview was the issue of protection; how little they had and how important it was to them both. Meghan only cared about the titles in the context of having security for Archie. Meghan wrote letters imploring that security not be taken away from Harry. She said she accepted that they weren’t going to provide security for her or the baby, but to please not take it away from Harry.
Harry’s reaction to the conversation was that he was stunned; it sounds like it didn’t really sink in at the time that it could be true. He stated that after the Oceania tour, it brought back memories– no doubt it caused William and Kate to be jealous, but there is only ONE PERSON for whom this would PERSONALLY bring back memories.
Additionally, the pained look on Meghan’s face when asked, while I believe it comes from several bad memories of that time, to me also implies that she had trusted this person– that she AND Harry trusted this person. I don’t think Meghan ever trusted William.
I guess for me, I keep coming back to this issue of security, rather than the specifics of who asked the question re Archie’s skin color, because it comes down to who controls the purse strings. The answer to that is Charles. Archie’s skin color was the central issue, but the consequence that Meghan cared most about– and I believe subsequently Harry– was how they were going to protect their child.
Harry thought his father understood pain– but what exactly does that mean? Understanding pain is not the same as empathizing, and I got the sense that Harry thought his father would empathize. But I can’t remember a situation where Charles was ever in the same position as Harry. Harry was so young when he saw what was happening to his mother– did he assume/believe that Charles must have shared in Diana’s pain rather than being one of the main instigators of it? Harry blamed the press for his mother’s death and was the first (I believe) to welcome Camilla. His hatred for the press would probably have lent to being skeptical of any accounts of his father’s behavior towards Diana, and his teenage years would have coincided with the palace’s efforts to rewrite history. I don’t think he watched Diana’s interview giving an account of the marital issues.
William hated/hates his father. He would have known more as the eldest, and Diana confided in him. Does that necessarily mean that William shared that knowledge with Harry? At this point my thoughts are going in circles, but this question of “who asked about Archie’s skin color” feels much more complicated, a bigger tangled web than the question sounds like. I think the question means something different to Harry and Meghan than it does to us. Because to them, their child’s skin color is inextricably tied to Archie’s title and security. To ask about a conversation regarding skin color is really, I think, asking about who decided Archie didn’t deserve protection.
While I’m sure that we all hope that Harry and Meghan eventually choose to name names, I think it’s especially important to reveal if it was Charles or William who said it. The people should know if their future King is an unabashed racist who won’t even accept his own biracial grandchildren/niece and nephew.
I fear this will blow over very soon in GB.
It could be damning for Charles who will become a king within the next, say, 5 years, maybe 10. But William, who’s like 20 years away from it or something? By then he’ll do other bad stuff or clear his name with quasi good stuff. This won’t have an impact at all.
Lol. It will not “blow over” in the rest of the world. So global impact, yes. Britain’s standing and reputation in the global community is definitely damaged.
Dunno. I’ve never seen anyone actually care what the royals do, because I don’t live in Britain. They’re just a paragraph in the gossip newspapers.
The reports on this, and the comments, are especially dishartening. 🙁
It is rampant racism on a national level. People care about that.
I wish that were true. But honestly I doubt it. Sure it’s huge news right now (at least in the UK), but will it be in a couple of decades when William is crowned? With the passage of time hearts usually cool down. I guess it depends also where the racism discourse goes in the UK, the US and worldwide, and also how the family acts in the meanwhile.
You’re assuming the monarchy will still be standing when William finally gets his hands on it, and I don’t think that’s a given. The Commonwealth, I imagine, cares very much about racism. Really, the only people who don’t care about racism are those who don’t think they’re affected by it. Lol. Civil rights are human rights, and the idea that unapologetic racism is acceptable for the de facto leader of a nation is garbage.
The Commonwelth might fall apart, I agree, but I think that would have happened regardless.
But they’re not going anywhere as British monarchs. They’ve been through some nasty scandals before (everything from the treatment of princess Diana that led to her death to prince Andrew) and it never really hurt them. At this point I doubt racism will, as I doubt anyone was really surprised by that?
I’m just thinking all these ex-European-empires that still have royal families that nobody cares (or even knows) about, but for some reason they’re still here?
It will not blow over, and it will affect William more than Charles.
People are still talking about the abdication like it was yesterday.
This is all the fault of the Palace for handling all the jealousy and the pecking order in the wrong way.
Oh it’s so William. I don’t think Harry would try to reconcile with his father if he was an out-and-out racist. Now your brother, you can snip-snip that in a heart beat. You would think losing their mother so young would have made them protective of one another (or at least that’s what my brother and I did, I was 11, he was 6 when our mother passed) but it’s clear that’s only a one way street.
I vote for William too. Given that he tried to drag Diana’s brother into the situation to convince Harry to break it off with Mega, didn’t want Meghan to attend the Diana ceremony even though she flew over specifically for that and then barely acknowledged the birth of his only brother’s child? I could totally see him making a foul remark like that. As for why Harry is still willing to say he loves his brother and not trash him? I think its for the same reason Meghan can acknowledge she has no relationship with her father without trashing him. That’s who they are.
This ‘Her Majesty, Duke of Edinburgh, Prince of Wales and the entire family are delighted and wish them well.’ William was not mentioned.
It has to be William, Harry is still speaking with everyone else in his immediate family. He speaks fondly of his grandparents and is working on his relationship with Charles, that leaves William, “some things can’t be unsaid”. I think he would’ve specified if it wasn’t someone in his close family or if it was a staff member.
These clips that have been shown today are just as devastating as the entire interview last night. You can see that Harry is still trying to come to terms with the fact that his family did not support him in anyway and that they essentially rejected him because he has chosen to stay with Meghan and to leave the country.
I imagine they (the firm) are in DANGER! H&M are charting a course to leave the toxic establishment and thrive, which no one has done before. The left and are now THRIVING. They are not exiled, they are not depending on handouts from the queen. Why stay put and suffer abuse when there is, in fact, life outside of the bubble.
I am thinking Charles. Harry points out Archie is his grandson and Harry seemed more upset with Charles than William. Camilla as a side bet. Who would say that?!! Horrible.
My money’s on William.
I can’t see either of them – especially Meghan – asking Charles to walk her down the aisle had he made racist remarks.
And William stood next the Harry at his wedding.
These comments were made after they announced Meghan was pregnant.
Harry stood with William at W&K’s wedding but wasn’t William sat in the pews at H&M’s wedding?
ETA: nope just looked at a pic and there’s baldy at the altar too
It was obviously a close family member that said it. And he chose to go on record that it wasn’t the grandparents. If it was an extended he would have said so. This has to be Charles or William or both.
Sad isn’t it that we all think it could credibly be both charles or william. But they will out themselves soon enough with some version of “it wasn’t me” in the tabloids. Meghan’s comment about damaging the person make me think it’s Charles because he’s the next head of the Commonwealth.
I think a lot of the comments came from Charles to protect the queen and the institution of the monarchy. We wouldn’t be here if the queen was good to them. I think they covered for the queen (and PP). Charles would have made sure the queen was protected but the not providing archie a title nor security came from the queen. Taking away Harry’s security came from the queen. It couldn’t come from anyone else. I think Harry had all the conversations about their need for support and their wish to step back with Charles because the queen directed Charles to deal with them. Every thing came from her.
Unless Charles is currently regent. Which it seems like he is from things being said.
It’s William! The pre-wedding conversation that had Harry pissed was about more than “moving too fast”.
My vote is William too. He is the only one that they could be worried about “damaging.” Charles and Camilla are the other candidates, but they are already chest-deep in scandal the last thirty years and it’s not thrown them off-course.
Have you all seen that clip on the Guardian where Meghan discusses Samantha Markle? ‘I don’t feel comfortable discussing someone that I don’t really know.’ Burn! I crowed with laughter and shouted ‘good girl!’ So utterly deserved!!!
I think Will got the ball rolling. And then ran to Daddy and said BUT DADDY WHAT IF THE BABY IS TAN! WE SIMPLY CANNOT HAVE SOMEONE DARKER THAN A JAR OF MAYO WITH A TITLE! WE SIMPLY MUSTN’T.
I think it’s William, the guy who is bored with racism in football, the guy who’s making jokes about the guy delivering his takeaway curry at the palace. And then there was that time when a reporter asked him what it felt to be a soon to be uncle when Meghan was pregnant, he answered coldly that he was already an uncle. Yeah I definitely think it’s William.
My grandmother and the queen are the same age and the truth is at that age you have very little say over anything. You are so dependent of caretakers, even when your mind is there your body just isn’t capable of what it use to be. I think that’s hard for anyone to conceptualize before they age themselves.
My biggest take away is what is the point of this royal family and everything it entails if it doesn’t serve the family or the country? Because everyone seems to be victimized by the weight of it.
Those who still doubt it was William based on Harry’s “space” comment: please note that even through his pain in talking about Charles, he still noted that they’ve started talking, albeit on very tense terms. He’s clearly not even speaking to William based on his reluctance to mention anything about him beyond the “space” comment and the repeated comments from the SA documentary. That relationship is virtually damaged beyond all repair, which is WHY he’s saying “hopefully time heals things” because that’s all that CAN help at this point. It was William.
But the comments were made while they were dating and Harry seemed completely fine with William at the wedding
Except for Commonwealth Day, they always seemed fine when they were in front if the cameras.
Remember their comments in the beginning of the interview, about how they had their working faces, and smiled and pretended to be happy regardless of what was going on behind the scenes?
I am obviously team “it was william” but I do think what probably happened was there was an initial conversation about it with HArry and William, and Harry was furious and shocked etc but maybe figured William would get over it, so by the wedding he was able to get on fine with him, and then once M got pregnant the comments started circling back and it was a big issue.
I think that this is part of why they had their own marriage ceremony before the wedding. Yes, it was because of nerves and because they didn’t feel the whole spectacle of a wedding really belonged to them, but also I think they felt that little ceremony was REAL. Everything else is for show.
100% Willy Bully Boy.
Harry said it was several conversations about the subject; so I don’t think it was Princess Michael or anyone outside the Palace or Kensington. I think it was William. Charles a
I think it was Camilla/Charles. They are the “right” age to think spouting racist remarks is appropriate. William/Kate probably thought it but knew better than to say it to H (but I bet it was openly discussed between them without him)
H&M are coming out of this on top, which pleases me.
It’s William IMO. Harry is angry and hurt with Charles. But he is still willing to try a relationship. With William his answer to their relationship is space and time. He’s making zero effort to have a relationship with William. That says everything.
No one else outside of Charles or William mean enough to Harry to care if they are racist. That plus Meghan’s comment states that it was someone important
I truly, 100%, without a doubt believe it was Prince Charles.
I cried in this interview. The pain, it’s still raw. I can’t believe Charles quit taking his calls in all this. I love MM and Harry and I am so proud of them for saying PEACE IM OUT. I know a lot of people who are obsessed with status and titles who wouldn’t walk away.
Also, nobody is taking about it but Harry said quickly that the family was saying they ‘couldn’t afford MM and that she should continue acting’ and I was like WHAT?! Did anyone else catch that part??????
Those are the parts that I want to get more attention over the next few days. They couldnt afford Meghan, they wanted her to keep acting, they didnt want Archie to have any kind of title, especially prince once Charles is king, and they refused to provide security for Archie. Those are the elements of this interview that are really shocking me the most (well besides the “how dark will the baby be” conversations.) Like, they didnt want her there. They didnt want her son there. And they didnt even try to hide it.
The fact that money kept coming up is the reason why I think it was Charles. The fact that William is well known for being an ass-faced bigot is why I think it was William. It’s a racist institution. Both can be true.
I’ve been turning this over in my head a lot and I think that Harry and Meghan were thinking of two DIFFERENT conversations, when Oprah asked about the identity of the individual. Harry had a very specific conversation in mind. I didn’t get the sense that Meghan was thinking of a specific conversation but a series of comments that got worse over time– an individual who talked about it snidely, openly, and casually. This is why I think it’s both Charles and William.
At first I thought it was William and only William. But then looking at the extra clips, he says he’ll still always be there for William. It sounds like Charles may have been the ring leader on this. I definitely thunk that William was part of the racist conversations about Archie but the way Harry is so thoroughly done with Charles is telling.
William must be absolutely miserable. All those stories he feeds to the press center around this idea that harry needs to come back to help him and serve him. It seems like he too hates the system but he loves the wealth, privilege, and the deference. And I also think he’s pissed that Harry’s leaving has sealed his coffin, so to speak. He’s stuck. Stuck in that system. Stuck with Kate. Stuck cutting ribbons for the rest of his life, etc.
I think Harry will always have some kind of compassion for him because they grew up in the Truman Show together. I’m sure they’ve had conversations about the weird toxic environment they grew up in and how it’s effected them.
Al Roker ( on 3rd hour of The Today Show) said he thinks it was Charles.His co host was shocked and said,” You can’t say that” 🙂
Charles supporters are going to light up his social media.
Something that just occurred to me: I desperately hope that it wasn’t Charles, because that would’ve been especially crushing for Meghan. She apparently thought of him positively enough to ask him to walk her down the aisle when her own father let her down and betrayed her trust. At the time, even I was fooled into thinking it was a touching gesture on Charles’s part. Can you imagine how devastating it would be if she learned that another father figure was just using her to improve his own image?
I mean, what do people expect from someone who abused his ex wife, didn’t protect her from his family and made her suicidal?
Like everyone, I think it was William and/or Charles. Harry mentioned the comments being made while he and Meghan were just dating and Harry said it was awkward and he was a “little” shocked. My guess is Harry brushed those comments off as a one time thing because Charles walked Meghan down the aisle and William stood next to Harry as his best man and seemed excited for his brother. In the beginning of their relationship, Harry was still so new to dating a biracial woman and really didn’t understand that the element of race wouldn’t just go away. He probably didn’t think much of it at the time.
I think the conversation was revived again when Meghan was pregnant and maybe he didn’t tell Meghan the first time around, but she was definitely told while she was pregnant. And now the question of whether it was Charles or William will constantly hang over their head. And seeing Oprah, a formidable woman of color, go WTF when that was revealed will probably make them realize this mystery of who made those comments about Archie’s skin tone will never go away. I think someday we will know who said those comments. If not now, maybe in several decades. And it will follow Charles and William forever. And if it wasn’t either of them, you’d think they’d want to clarify that. But if they release that statement, the public won’t believe them until the guilty party is named. And staying silent makes them look bad too but it protects whoever it was if it wasn’t either of them.
I believe it was William. Charles and William are the only two members of the family for whom such a revelation would be especially “damaging.” Princess Michael is an irrelevant minor figure who is also a known racist. I don’t think either Harry or Meghan would bother to protect her.
Harry was very candid about his relationship with Charles, and didn’t hold back even when he had to have known his words could damage Charles. His demeanor changed completely when he was asked about William. He paused and seemed to choose his words very carefully. It was a very strong tell.
Wadsworth: totally. From now on when someone asks me what my relationship is like with an asshole im going to reply “space” .
Of course it was Prince Will-it-be-brown.
He’s only bored with racism in football, after all.
“Will it be brown”
Oh man, I can see willnot saying it this exact way.
Let’s see if any of the commonwealth countries have anything to say.
It’s William. I think racist comments always seem worse coming from someone younger that someone Charles age. But to be honest I think they were probably all racist towards Meghan and archie.
Not sure if anyone here’s heard of Fleet Street Fox on Twitter, but she’s a journalist for the Mirror who frequently gets these things right- and it seems her money’s on William.
My theory is that William is the one primarily stirring shit, and Charles is enabling it.
Harry felt more comfortable calling out Charles and expressing his anger towards his father, but the few things H&M said about William imply that it’s so much worse than we know.
William never liked Meghan. William has anger issues. William’s infamous for his “friends” in the UK press. William seems to be pushing The Firm around.
The other royals attempted to play nice with Meghan in public *except* William. Charles walked her down the aisle. QEII brought her along for an engagement, just the two of them. And of course Kate and Meghan’s outings-worth noting how Meghan consistently praised Kate for being a good person. The interview made me realize W&K give off Javanka vibes, honestly.
Could you elaborate on Javanka vibes? I’m not from USA so idk about this pairing other than they are trash. I’m seeing Kate being compared to Melania a lot nowadays though.
Also I think it’s William, but it was more than a person considering the words that they used.
For me the best comparison is probably “Waity Katie.” Imagine Jared is Wills. He comes from a wealthy family with a very shady history (his dad went to prison and was pardoned by Tr*mp). The Kushners are also Jewish. the rumor is that Jared was set up with every Jewish girl in New York and had to settle for Ivanka, who had to convert. The marriage between Jared and Ivanka was good for both families’ business alignments. They – Ivanka especially – tried to mingle with high society in NYC in hopes of elevating their families’ social status. The classism elements are pretty similar but it’s not the same. I’m not familiar with William’s dating history so it may not be as accurate, but that’s the gist.
It was Charles. Shame on him.
I think that it was William (Cain).
If the comments were made while they were dating, Harry mentions this, why was Megan warm toward Charles Especially during and before the wedding? Notice she had very little to zero interactions with William in public.
I don’t care who said it. The fact that the person felt comfortable enough to say it and to say it to Harry is very telling of that person’s view of the relation between Harry and Meghan.
C.A.M.I.L.L.A. (Like revenge, karma is a dish best served ice-cold).
How large is Britain’s BLM movement?
I want to see marches to Buckingham Palace.
Lainey thinks it’s Charles, as do I. The anger from Harry was there in a way it wasn’t when discussing William.
Not exactly a great look for the BRF when there isn’t a single member you truly couldn’t imagine it coming from.
I don’t know, I think there is ice regarding the relationship with William. Suggesting it is beyond forgivable.
Whereas he is talking to Charles, there is anger but it doesn’t seem insurmountable in his eyes.
I think it’s a combo of William and Charles Spencer who spoke about it. It wasn’t mentioned to Meghan pre marriage but then it was discussed again during her pregnancy.
In my eyes Charles is selfish and not a good father but in addition to being selfish, vain and petulant William lacks culture and education and IMO it wouldn’t surprise me if his views were more vile despite being from a younger generation that should be more aware of what is right and wrong.
William IMO has inherited the worst from both parents, whilst Harry has inherited the best
Yeah Charles is almost to self centered to even care about the lives of others. He is totally self focused.
If it was Charles then why was such a big point made of him walking her down the aisle? He seemed genuinely warm towards both Meghan and her mum. His nickname for her was Tungsten wasn’t it? To me this doesn’t fit with him coming out with something so vilely racist.
Two of my grandchildren are of mixed race. It NEVER occurred to my husband and I to wonder about or question the color of their skin. It just didn’t matter then and it doesn’t matter now and it will never matter.
We worried about whether they would be healthy when born
(Aside: they were and at 18 and 14 are your regular repulsive stinky teens who we adore and cannot get enough of)
I just hurt when I read this about Archie. I can’t fathom.
@merlinsmom. I’m 61 and of mixed race. My mom is Caucasian and her mother didn’t want mom to marry my late father. Grandma brought up what about brown babies. That was 70 years ago and it really grieves me that this shit is still going on. I got very emotional watching last night. WTF is wrong with these people?
@Tigerlily I am so so sorry you had to go through this. I’m 63 so I know exactly the generational vibe from this.
I guess I have been really lucky in that we have had mixed races in our family going back generations (in Texas no less!!) so it’s never been a huge deal.
I can only guess (and it’s not a very good one) that people fear what they don’t know? I am assuming that for them and others like them white is right and that’s all there is to it. There’s an image to maintain and anything that doesn’t work within that is to be trashed. I just don’t know.
Peter Hunt has said that they relationship between de boys was now poisonous. Also both Megan and Charles where on good terms up to the Commonwealth service Megan greeted Charles warmly, Harry didn’t, however William and Harry rumours started after Australian tour when Megan announced pregnancy!
The number of people who think it has to be someone older than William because William is “too young” to say something that racist is astounding.
A lot of heads up a lot of white asses, in the comments.
Seriously!
Do they think that was octogenarians scaling those walls at the US Capitol back in January. Old racists raise young racists plenty.
I think it’s William, for one very specific reason. Harry stated that the conversation first happened prior to the wedding. There is no reality that I could imagine in which Meghan would willingly let Charles walk her down the aisle if he had said anything racist about her future children. She would have walked down that aisle alone, head held high.
It had to be William.
This is a very astute observation.
Yes. On top of that, I just recalled that for either Fathers’ Day or Charles’s birthday, the SussexRoyal IG post included a picture of Harry, Charles, and Archie at the christening. I highly doubt that picture would have been included if Charles had made those remarks to Harry.
Hello all!
My goodness what an interview. May I translate upper class speak for some of you? I can tell you why it’s William.
Harry’s relationship with William is “space” is aristo speak for saying there is no relationship there. They can just pay people to deal with the other party. William always expected his brother to play along and deal with the bullying.
We all knew Scobie and Lacey were dancing around an issue with the “take your time with that girl” comments. It wasn’t just a “take your time” conversation and I think most of us can fill in the blanks something of a highly racist nature was said. It’s not hard to add 2+2 in this one.
The fact Harry seems to want to repair his relationship with his father is telling. Whatever happened, Harry is forgiving Charles and working past his hurt. This seems to be an active process. He was magnanimous with Charles and the fact he’s speaking to Charles is telling. They are father and son and everyone expects good and bad moments. They are still choosing to communicate with one another.
There is nothing for William in the way Harry speaks. He is awaiting an apology from William to be able to resume his relationship and that is why he needs time. He expects an apology from William before he will even speak to him. Whether William gives it to him remains to be seen. I think at this point Kate would be against any kind of reconcilation given how she got thrown under the bus. Aristos are taught to love their family no matter what but that doesn’t mean they have relationships with them or even like them.
Harry will not play their games. He expects to be treated like a human being worthy of respect regardless of place in the line of succession that means nothing to him. His family chose to be disrespectful of his wife and by proxy him. This was a warning shot to the courtiers, the press and the UK to leave him alone unless they want it all out there. This story will die faster than a Le Mans rally car off a cliff in the UK.
Expect to see the royal family – especially William and Kate – isolate themselves further from the public. I expect Kate and her family will find themselves under a bus before the year is out along with lots of stories about how William and Kate lead very separate lives but won’t divorce “for the good of the monarchy” but are friendly, Kate’s a perfect Queen, etc.
I’m bookmarking this post for later in the year. Very insightful, NotSoSimple! I think a lot of separate issues are being conflated and Charles certainly had something to do with the withdrawal of title and security for Archie, while the issue of skin tone rings true for William. No wonder he’s “bored” by racism. He’s dying for the conversation to move away from a touchy area for him.
i think it was both William & Charles, with William saying the actual words or the most harmful & hateful words. i think the problem Harry has with his father is that he didn’t stand up for them. that he didn’t stop or get the IINSTITUTION in line. before you go “well he wouldn’t be able to control that”, did no one catch on one of those extra clips where Harry said his father was the institution or the head of it or something like that. so he probably thought his father is in charge & could have done something more than he did. also unless i was hearing something different about things being taken away or them being cut off, it was Charles doing it.
Have oprah ask why they paid the frogmore cottage?
Did the firm told them to pay for it?
My guess in this order 1Charles 2 Camilla 3 William 4 Kate-My money is on it being Charles- Meghan and Charles seem to get along very well before the wedding and right after-I guessing when Harry came home one day and told Meghan that Charles is very concerned with Archie’s skin tone and that would look-It was stated on some site that Charles could not understand the chilly vibe Meghan had started giving him-He would call and try to invite them over but Meghan had started shying away from him-I really read this back in the fall of 2018.
Whatever will The Firm do if Harry’s daughter turns out to be a lovely shade of brown like her mom or her maternal grandmother? Genes mix in mysterious ways, so everything from pale to dark brown is possible.
Archie can still be changing, too. I was a curly-haired blonde until I was 3, after which I was definitely not either…
Harry will be happy to see a reflection of his wife and her family in his children, but we shall see what conniptions unfold back in the Old Country.
My bets are that it was William.
If it was Charles, I can see him trying to say it like it was some kind of dumb, sheepish joke. But in the words of Jenny Joyce from Derry Girls, “Well, that’s not really funny is it? Like, at all???”
But I’m betting it was fucking William. William with his Tory staffers.
Charles is the one with concern about Archie’s skin colour. Think about it, they called out Kate for making Meghan cry, and Harry said him and William aren’t talking, but his father… Harry didn’t say much. He’s the next in line. He’s the one who has the most to lose. And Charles is an out of touch imbecile. Of course it was Charles.
Megan said there were multiple conversations and she said as relayed to her from Harry but correct me if I am wrong and I will rewatch the interview Harry seemed surprised when Oprah brought it up (Maybe he told her npot to bring it up?) but if I recall he then he said it was one time before they were married so now I am confused.
Was it multiple times throughout the pregnancy or just the once before marriage? Help