“America’s twenty-year war in Afghanistan is over” links

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The 20-year war in Afghanistan is over. [Buzzfeed]
Beyonce steps out in hot pink & emeralds. [GFY]
January Jones wore a big, ruffled dress to the Dolce & Gabbana show. [RCFA]
Emily VanCamp is leaving The Resident. [Seriously OMG]
Afghanistan’s Gen Z is worried about the Taliban. [Towleroad]
Normani wore a tulle ballgown at the Dolce & Gabbana show. [Tom & Lorenzo]
I forgot that Ken Jennings had messy tweets too. [Dlisted]
Spoilers & questions about Candyman. [Pajiba]
What it’s like to provide abortions in Alabama. [Jezebel]
Why have New York Mets’ players been booing the fans recently? [JustJared]
Unlike Renee Zellweger, I haven’t worn cargo pants in a decade. But I love cargo pants and I would love to find a cute pair! [LaineyGossip]

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77 Responses to ““America’s twenty-year war in Afghanistan is over” links”

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  1. Lady D says:

    For how long?

  2. J ferber says:

    Yes, a twenty year war that cost billions of dollars and many lives. President Biden had a very tough decision to make when there were really no good solutions. He inherited this situation because of the actions of duplicitous, stupid Republicans, who now want to blame him for the whole shebang.

    • JRenee says:

      J Ferber…yep!😔

    • TigerMcQueen says:

      Seriously, Biden’s been in charge for less than nine months and he seems to be getting the fallout for 20 years worth of mistakes by politicians (especially but not limited to republicans) and some in the military. I’m not anti-armed forces at all, but there’s a reason why my very conservative army officer brother registered as an independent instead of republican after experiencing our ‘war on terror’ and seeing the corruption and mismanagement first hand. There’s a reason he retired earlier than he’d originally planned.

      I’m not saying the pullout wasn’t as messy or that his administration didn’t make mistakes, but I also know enough about 1) poor decisions made by previous presidents and 2) that region’s history to know that getting out was always going to be ugly, no matter who was president.

    • Tiffany :) says:

      Trump tied Biden’s hands in many ways. It’s amazing how people can forget. In April, Trump released a statement that said:

      “I made early withdraw possible by already pulling much of our billions of dollars and equipment out and, more importantly, reducing our military presence to less than 2,000 troops from the 16,000 level that was there,”, “I planned to withdraw on May 1, and we should keep as close to that schedule as possible.”

      • Christine says:

        Thank you, it boggles the mind that anyone can forget Trump’s massive footprint in this disaster.

    • Susan says:

      And can I just say what a favor Biden is doing for the past several presidents…and future presidents? someone had to fall on this sword and he did it. Have there been mistakes made? Absolutely. But is it all on Biden? heck no. But he sure is taking the fall.

    • Kat says:

      Wow, here in Europe the news coverage has a totally different tone! Trump was disliked, but it’s baffling to us that anyone would actually think that Biden is a step up 🤔 . The consensus here is that he withdrew troops without a plan and has doomed both Afghans and remaining Americans to a horrific fate whilst arming the Taliban. This is viewed as a monumental failure that lands at the feet of four presidents.

      I get that the tone on this site favours one “team” over another, but unless someone wants to explain this to me in primary school terms, your current presidents seems just as abysmal as the last one. The only difference is that Americans like him, so his poor decisions somehow get a pass 😑. Perspective and the press have a lot to do with opinion forming, but I have a few Arab friends here (immigrants) who also think Biden sucks big time. **Let the poop storm begin**

      • TigerMcQueen says:

        It’s equally baffling to me how anyone could think Biden, no matter his faults (because he has them) is ‘just as abysmal’ as a narcissistic, incompetent fascist who literally suggested injecting bleach into people as way to cure COVID.

        Withdrawing from Afghanistan could have been handled better, but it would still have been very messy given the very nature of that country (ask the failed USSR about that). Anyone suggesting otherwise is being deliberately obtuse. Afghan refugees STILL would have had an almost impossible time getting to the US (thanks to republicans, who have put up roadblocks for years), the Taliban STILL would have taken over almost immediately, and they STILL would be armed given the equipment we were a l w a y s going to leave behind in the hands of the Afghan army, which was always going to fold as soon as we were gone.

      • Ann says:

        Biden is a decent, serious, empathetic person with years of government experience and a strong belief in our democracy. Trump is the opposite and he basically tried to THWART our democracy through violence.

        Big difference.

        If your friends over there are worried about the fate of the Afghan people so much, tell them to sacrifice their blood and treasure as we have done.

        How anyone can not see that these to men are Night and Day is beyond comprehension.

      • Tiffany :) says:

        “he withdrew troops without a plan and has doomed both Afghans and remaining Americans to a horrific fate whilst arming the Taliban.”

        1. There are no remaining Americans in Afghanistan.

        2. Pompeo in the Trump Administration made the deal with the Taliban in Feb 2020 regarding the withdrawal in May 2021 (his meetings started around Sept 2020). Pompeo even did a photo op with a Taliban political leader Mullah Abdul Ghani Baradar, who was freed from prison at the request of the Trump administration!


        This withdrawal has been a PROCESS that has been in action before Biden was even elected!

      • WithTheAmerican says:

        We wouldn’t presume to lecture you about your PM and legislative inside moves without educating ourselves, and you should try the same courtesy.

        Furthermore, your claim is not borne out in polling, so thanks for the Daily Fail talking point. Biden is 180 degrees from Trump and anyone who can’t see that is simply uneducated about the issues or pushing propaganda.

      • Tiffany :) says:

        An article that I read earlier today was wrong, and I’ve since confirmed that there are still about 100-250 Americans in Afghanistan. Correcting the record for my comment above.

      • Isabella says:

        Please feel free to have your troops fight and die in Afghanistan. We know all about useless wars that can’t be won.

      • Kkat says:

        I just want to make sure people know there is a difference between Kat and me, Kkat 😒

        Just like there is a huge difference between trump who is a ignorant fascist malignant narcissist, and Biden who is a centrist ,right leaning experienced politician

      • Celebitchy says:

        This is some trolling when this happens just comment “troll” I can’t zap this comment now because there are so many responses. Just because they can string a few sentences together does not make this bullsh-t in any way reasonable.

      • Normades says:

        I live in Europe and NO ONE equates Trump with Biden. Stop

  3. ML says:

    This Biden did extremely poorly. The American soldiers only let certain allied nationalities and their Afghan helpers through the airport gates. The Dutch were not one of them. I had the “lovely” task as an American to try to explain why Biden screwed Nato, the UK and EU over while dealing with the Taliban. Especially since we in Europe were bombarded with stories, sounds and images of the torture, house searches and murder by the Taliban during the evacuation. Weirdly, the US didn’t have much of that in the news, but focussed on ISISK instead. The way Biden chose to leave was awful.

    • Polly says:

      I wonder if the news coverage is different in the US to here in Europe? Biden’s popularity seems to have plummeted whereas before people were rooting for him. The way all this has been handled is shocking and my heart absolutely breaks for the people of Afghanistan, especially those whose lives are now in immediate danger from the Taliban.

      • GraceB says:

        The news in each different country is always biased. It takes a lot of searching to get real answers on these situations. Of course they’re not doing to focus on how drastically wrong this went, in the US. Of course Europe is going to point fingers (whether or not they’re right to is debatable).

        However I really don’t think this war is over. The US airstrike killed children, the Taliban and ISIS-K won’t stop and I suspect there will soon be another round.

      • Shelley says:

        Did you feel bad for the Kurds when Trump left them to get slaughtered????

    • IMARA219 says:

      I completely agree that the way Biden handled this was atrocious. He missed the mark and bungled the issue.

      • Rose says:

        That’s the GOP way. Set it up to fail, blame democrats when it does. Lather rinse repeat.

      • Jack says:

        By getting the deadline to leave extended past May 1 to give people time to get out? Americans didn’t leave because they were working and making money there. They thought they could continue to work with the Afghan government after the US military left. The State Department told Americans to leave back in April.

        Trump/Kushner stopped approving Visas as part of their anti immigrant policies, so many Afghans couldn’t get their Visas to leave early.

        Trump drew down our troops to 2500 before he left office.

        Biden had one mission – get our troops out by May 1. He was able to extend that date to 8/31 and tried to extend to 9/11. They were forced into an evacuation because the Afghan army folded in a weekend. There mistake was in thinking they had more time than one weekend to help people leave the country. Were they supposed to start the war back up?

    • Tiffany :) says:

      “Biden screwed Nato, the UK and EU over while dealing with the Taliban.”

      Pompeo in the Trump Administration negotiated the deal with the Taliban. It was that agreement that largely set the terms for withdraw, though the end date was pushed back from May to Aug. 31st.

    • fluffy_bunny says:

      Trump negotiated and set the deadline for withdraw. Biden only worked with the mess he was dealt. Someone had to clean up the mess and the guy who’s already said he’s a one term president is the one who decided to take on the job.

    • Naomi says:

      @ML. The sudden concern about Afghans in the UK and EU is mind-boggling. Go ahead, send in troops. Take it over. Don’t be concern trolls.

      The withdrawal can’t have come as a surprise to Europe. Biden said he was going to withdraw the troops. I just read the newspapers and I knew.

    • Naomi says:

      @ML. The sudden concern about Afghans in the UK and EU is mind-boggling. Go ahead, send in troops. Take it over. The concern trolling is hypocritical and obnoxious.

  4. Nina says:

    As if they couldn’t wait to get away. While 20 years ago it seemed no one could stop them from entering Afghanistan

    • goofpuff says:

      20 years ago was September 11, 2001. That made even the Democrats out for blood.

      This whole Afghanistan withdrawal reminded me so much of Vietnam (and many other South American countries). At this point it is the typical American and European way to operate. Complete mess up local politics for their benefit (via colonialism, corporation profit, region control, etc), their local militia turning against them. Stay in there to try to regain control. Completely fail at it because they fail to understand local and regional politics in Congress (mostly due to racism). So normally the Republicans (or conservative parties due their higher profit margin) start the wars and Democrats (more liberal parties whose social programs suffer) pull the military out.

  5. Gobo says:

    … for now…

  6. Lightpurple says:

    Eight months in which he has had to deal with a raging pandemic, millions of idiots who refuse to do what is necessary to fight the pandemic, a collapsed economy, major forest fires, major hurricanes, insurrectionists in Congress, and ending a war with the evacuation of over 100,000 people in just over 2 weeks. And his dog died. That’s quite a bit.

    • (TheOG) Jan90067 says:

      Thank you!!

      It’s not like the man is out golfing every day, or made the damned deal with the Taliban to get out. He is cleaning up the messes left. And doing a DAMNED good job in just NINE MONTHS!

      • LMR says:

        I agree with you OG. During the 2020 election (particularly the Democratic primaries) I thought that Biden was a terrible candidate. Faltering, verbal gaffes, pissed off, etc.

        He turned out to be a much better president than I expected. That includes getting out of this 20-year mess that neither Bush, Obama nor Trump had the guts to deal with in the way that it needed to be dealt with. The only reason that there was relative peace over the last year with only 2500 of our troops on the ground is because that was part of Trump’s deal with the Taliban. Obama preferred to prioritize other things during his presidency. Bush was just a starry-eyed fool who thought he could wave a wand and turn any nation into a democracy. In the past two weeks, Joe Biden has saved over 100,000 lives in the worst of circumstances. Any other countries who disagree with the USA’s decision to withdraw is more than welcome to send their own troops in. As my mother used to say – put your money where your mouth is.

    • Maya says:

      No one forced him to run for the job. He wanted to handle multiple crisis, he should have been better prepared.

      • Tiffany :) says:

        Are you joking? Recognizing the unprecedented challenges we are facing isn’t making excuses. It’s hard not to roll my eyes at comments like this.

      • Maya says:

        You can roll your eyes, Tiffany, while once again the world sees how unfortunately the USA shows a surprising lack of humanity with those they’re leaving behind to suffer the consequences.

      • Curiouser says:

        Weird flex, Maya. It’s not as if Europe doesn’t share in the bloodied history and tragedy here.

      • Tiffany :) says:

        The eye roll is totally justified because your comments imply that preparation by Biden could have somehow eliminated the suffering that was always going to happen during the withdrawal. The only way to avoid that was to not go to Afghanistan in the first place, and clearly that wasn’t an option in 2021. Saying petty things like “no one forced him to run for the job” mocks the importance of the issues. I guess I’m used to more substance.

      • Maya says:

        Of course they do, but we’re talking about the US’s way of leaving. Like how they refused to save the dogs they had working for them, when all they had to do was let them in the country.

      • Tiffany :) says:

        Maya, you are repeating a lie that is easily debunked if you fact check it. No US military dogs were left in Afghanistan. Maybe you should take a minute (or a few hours) to do some research and reorganize your thoughts.

        Seriously, fact check the dog claim. It’s a lie. Please don’t spread misinformation.

      • Joanna says:

        I don’t see how it could have been anything but messy with troops leaving after 20 years? There is no clean way to leave. Any President would have trouble with that one.

      • Lizzie says:

        Like him or not, No one was more prepare for the jon than Biden. I give him an A+.

  7. A says:

    Good. Was the pull out done well? No. But this is one of those things that won’t be seen in its full light until about twenty years from now. It’s the tragedy of liberal govts the world over, that the reforms and policy decisions need time to see results. Compared to that, right wing reforms, particularly those of the economic variety, net very quick profits in a short amount of time for a small group of people. Change in a positive direction, meaningful change, takes time, and people are impatient.

    The optics of leaving Afghanistan were never going to be good, even if Americans had all the time in the world to leave. But the optics of staying have significantly damaged America’s image globally in a huge way. The invasions of Iraq and Afghanistan did more to set America on the path that it’s on now. It did more to make America look like an AH in the eyes of the world than Trump, tbh. America overstayed it’s welcome in Afghanistan. They went in to find Osama Bin Laden, all while making significant foreign policy blunders that ultimately resulted in his escape from American custody. They got bogged down for 20 years as a result.

    The immediate aftermath is not going to photograph well, obviously. But things are not over yet. The story is still going to be unfolding. It’s just a new chapter.

    • Emma says:

      I think we can see right now what’s going to happen. The Taliban will violate human rights on a mass scale and sponsor religious terrorism (probably not on the level of 9/11 though). The ordinary people of Afghanistan, the animals, the land, will suffer horribly with little to no aid or recourse. This entire long nightmare is Trump and Bush’s doing, in large part, with an assist from the CIA some decades ago in secretly sponsoring and arming the Taliban to destroy socialist government, but Biden did NOT have to end it this way. Own goal. I’m appalled we have basically left the country in a shambles and ordinary people will suffer. We failed catastrophically on every level there. The amount of money spent and lives lost and all for nothing. We should never have intervened to sponsor the Taliban in the first place.

      • A says:

        Respectfully Emma, America’s intervention was never actually about the well-being of the ordinary people of Afghanistan. It was always about serving certain vested interests in the US, nothing more. There is no “right” way to exit this debacle, because the intentions were never about doing anything right by the Afghan people to begin with.

        If it were, the US would not have installed a democratic govt that was, and remains, ethnocentric and refuses to share power in a country with an incredibly diverse population. The US would not have funded and trained an Afghan military to rely so much on aerial support, the lack of which became the reason why they folded so quickly in the recent weeks.

        There was never a “right way” to end this, because the whole point, from the start, was that this war should not end. It was set up, from the start, to be a quagmire, so that leaving would be more painful and could provide continued justification for the American presence there. Every facet of this was set up to fail without the American occupation. This was so that people could provide an endless justification for a forever war that accomplished very little in the last two decades, cost the American tax payer countless billions, and was garnering the country significant ill-will on a global stage as a result of the heavy-handed foreign policy. Whether the US chose to leave or stay, the cost would have been heavy, and they dug their grave the day US intelligence agencies decided to interfere in 1979. It was always going to come to this.

      • Tiffany :) says:

        Great points, A.
        Getting out of Afghanistan was always going to be messy, for the reasons you described. I’m glad that Biden chose to leave despite knowing that he’d receive criticism.

        Heaven forbid, if the US ever starts another war, it will NEVER end because no President will want to face the kind of criticism that Biden is getting now. That’s why this war lasted 20 years.

    • Tiffany :) says:

      I completely agree, A.

  8. IMARA219 says:

    We can’t move the goalpost just because his presidential candidate has sensibilities that a lot of people agree with. Bottom line is that this evacuation was mishandled. It was a bad global look and it was bad for the Afghan allies.

    • Emma says:

      I agree and it’s going to be tragic and devastating for the ordinary people of Afghanistan.

    • Tiffany :) says:

      There was no way to withdraw from Afghanistan in a smooth and easy way. When assessing Biden’s handling, we have to be realistic. It was a “bad look” because it was a bad idea to go to war in Afghanistan. It was NEVER going to be a “good look”.

    • WithTheAmerican says:

      No one is moving a goal post, ffs. We are dealing with reality and context. Only the biggest hacks and pro war clowns are screaming about the way this ended as if there was a good way.

      Trump defunded the aid and the military in Afghanistan. His administration admitted they left all of these bombs to go off in Bidens face on purpose so he wouldn’t be able to out them out.

      Then, Trump refused to even brief Biden in transition period.

      It’s disgusting how some people want to forget the facts and make this about Biden.

      • Tiffany :) says:

        YES!!! Trump put out a statement saying the he cut funding and removed major equipment and troops so that it would be impossible to stay there even if the next President wanted to. I know we’ve all grown accustomed to ignoring Trump now, but he undermined the current administration and said so in writing for all to see.

  9. Maya says:

    Yeah yeah, but let’s talk about how Biden’s government left all those dogs they used for years to be slaughtered. How humane.

    • Emma says:

      That’s horrific.

    • Christine says:

      There’s a reason so many GOP and MAGA fans have jumped on this info – because it’s a lie. Do better, Maya.

      • Maya says:

        Yes, I’m sure the people working their asses off in the shelter and the US Humane groups are all MAGA liars. The Pentagon only denied that “their” dogs were left on the crates but they can’t deny they wouldn’t accept the rescue animals in the country over some cdc stupid rule.

        https://www.spcai.org/news/press/urgent-update-and-action-plan-from-charlotte-kabul-small-animal-rescue-ksar This is all some GOP conspiracy, right? You tell me to do better, but it’s you who will accept some inhumane behavior to defend what? If this had happened under Trump (and I have no doubts it would have been even worse handled with him), you’d all be tearing him a new one, as you should. Double standards, always.

      • Tiffany :) says:

        So you’re moving the goal post from “all those dogs they used for years” to all of the shelter dogs in Afghanistan? Because you clearly wrote 1 thing, then when you were called out on it, you changed your point.

        It is completely unreasonable to expect the US military to evacuate all of the shelter dogs in Afghanistan.

    • Tiffany :) says:

      Yes, Maya, do better. Here’s some fact checking since you didn’t bother to do it yourself before spreading misinformation.



      • Maya says:

        Did you read the denial you just linked? They’re only denying that they left the dogs in the cages, not that they wouldn’t allow the rescue dogs from one of their citizens to safely flee when they had everything to transport them, or that they just released them back to homelessness because it was convenient. They won’t deny that because they can’t.

      • Tiffany :) says:

        You missed the big red stop sign that says “FALSE”? You are missing a fundamental point, and I will help because the comprehension seems off.

        The US military did not leave ANY dogs that worked for them. The photos showed rescue dogs under the care of Kabul Small Animal Rescue, which is not the US military.

        From the pentagon regarding those dogs you claim they “used for years”:
        “To correct erroneous reports, the U.S. Military did not leave any dogs in cages at Hamid Karzai International Airport, including the reported military working dogs. Photos circulating online were animals under the care of the Kabul Small Animal Rescue, not dogs under our care.”

        Also from the article:

        “The Military Working Dog Team Support Association, a nonprofit that works to support military dogs and their handlers, also disputed this account, writing on Facebook: “We are 100% certain that there are zero US military working dogs abandoned in Kabul. Zero. The US military did not leave a single MWD behind.”

        Check yo self before you wreck yo self.

      • WithTheAmerican says:

        Thank you for the sanity. Unbelievable that MAGA has been raging about these dogs in cages all day when they didn’t give a crap about actual human babies in cages.

      • Hmm says:

        @Maya … I actually can’t believe I’m reading this. First off, I love dogs. I love all animals. Everyone knows me as an animal nut. But in what world would a military priority be evacuating dogs?? FFS. To judge a president on that is legitimately insane. Even if it were true (which does not seem to be the case).

    • WithTheAmerican says:

      Yeah, shoulda stuck with the trophy hunters. Oh, wait.

      • Maya says:

        You all need to read more. The military wasn’t evacuating the dogs, the dogs had space in cargo (you know, where they don’t put people) thanks to private donations but the US wouldn’t let them in because the CDC thinks that if they come from Afghanistan their vaccines must be fake (I guess they haven’t heard of quarantine). There’s also a difference between “military dogs”, owned by the military, and contracted working dogs, which they don’t own, but used, and abandoned over the aforementioned cdc rule. Just one little example of how badly planned was all this, and maybe to you they’re just animals but for some like the American girl that rescued them, has cared for them and is still stuck in that hell because of the US’s actions is not “just dogs”.
        I won’t say anymore because to you people the truth doesn’t matter, you’ll believe whatever to try to align with some bad decision by the government you support for fear to be called maga if you dare to criticize imperfect politicians. That’s the problem with the US right now, the extreme partisanship is ruining the country.

  10. Wilma says:

    It drives me up a wall that once again the Afghan people have no power to decide their own political future. I hate it when people say things like that they must want Taliban rule, because otherwise they would have fought harder even as resistance is building in Afghanistan and women are demonstrating in Kabul. I’m so ashamed of the protests in my own country against the Afghan refugees, next to the shelter they were coming to with people using fireworks and shouting the most abhorrent racist things.

    • lemonylips says:

      This. The west left. All I care about now is what is going to happen to all of the people who are there, trying to have a life and future or escaping. And yes, it is absolutely horrible the way people treat the refugees. Something needs to be done. But I haven’t seen a single valid attempt by any organization to help or offer proper solutions. I would like to get more info on that rather than reading who did what.

    • Anna says:

      I agree 100%. it’s just despicable.

  11. Plums says:

    I don’t think anyone is sincerely arguing that we should have stayed in Afghanistan indefinitely, but at least on the left, I feel like people are justifiably angry and disappointed with how badly the Biden Administration handled the evacuation and betrayed the vast majority of our Afghan allies. Leaving a country after losing a war is never pretty, but he had months to prepare, and there’s no excuse for getting caught flat-footed by the American backed regime surrendering immediately in the wake of America leaving to honor a pull-out agreement the previous administration worked out with the enemies of the American backed regime. Like, why on earth would they have expected the ANA to fight the Taliban at all when the Trump administration basically promised the Taliban they’d leave in a year and hand over the keys to them then?

    With that being said, Biden had months since coming into office to fast track SIVs and get people the hell out. There wasn’t a reason on this earth to go along with this dumbass pretense that evacuating people before the military left would have undermined the government in Kabul as if that government had any hope of remaining in power as soon as the Americans left. It was delusional and a massive intelligence failure, and he deserves all the criticism in the world for fucking it up so badly.

  12. ML says:

    I am absolutely not arguing that we should have stayed in Afghanistan!! As a lifelong Democrat, I am also relieved that Trump is no longer in office. Trying to explain Trump to people over here was impossible and his 4 years were embarrassing, cringeworthy and above all, very frightening.
    The president who actually exited Afghanistan is Biden and he did so poorly. I proudly voted for the man, but he really messed this up. If you want some foreign perspective, The Guardian is an excellent British paper. France24 and Deutsche Welle have English language sites for French and German news respectively. Dutchnews covers basic news for the Netherlands. If you want to know more about what’s going on in a country, many have a “thelocal” website like thelocal.it for italy or thelocal.se for Sweden. Obviously, I’m Euro focused, but you can usually access news about most countries in English, and it gives you an international perspective that the US lacks. If you read/ watch what’s going on internationally, Biden messed up. As to Europe defending itself and its own interests: this is a longstanding and fair criticism. However, at the moment the US is the world superpower and its military is probably the biggest and the best. At the moment the US pulled out of Afghanistan, all the other countries had to leave as well, and unfortunately under Biden’s guidance this did not go well.

  13. Anna says:

    I am appalled. First bring chaos to the region (the Taliban did NOT emerge from a vacuum), instigate an illegitimate war, then leave in a hurry, leave an even bigger mess behind and leave close allies to their fate. Disgusting. This war is far from “over”.

  14. Rise & Shine says:

    Great comments from those here. Personally, I believe that it had to be done. Yes, it is painful, excruciatingly so. The Republicans started this, it should have been over quickly, it was not. Trump did nothing but make it worse and put us in a bind. It went on throughout decades, many administrations, so much loss with little gain to anyone. So many lives were lost. We can all help out in many ways if we choose to, to help Afghanistan people and others still there or wherever they are. Yet, it was time to leave and end this in my opinion. And ALL respect to those who served, but enough. War IS HELL, kids, that’s the truth and why we should stay out and keep out, and be glad we got out. And again, I understand everyone’s views here cause you are all the best 🙂