As everyone always says, The Crown does not represent a perfectly accurate history of the British royal family. If anything, showrunner/writer/producer Peter Morgan tends to soft-pedal some of the creepiest and most unsettling stuff. There has been a lot of talk about the way Prince Charles and Camilla are portrayed, but as I’ve said before, their actual history is a million times worse than we see on The Crown. So it is with the Duke of Windsor, aka Prince David, aka the brief reign of King Edward VIII. The Crown shows the post-abdication David (as he was known to his family) as some kind of informal advisor to the crown in the early years of QEII’s reign. While that may have been the case, it’s worth noting that the Queen Mum never got along with David, and in the last decades of his life, David had barely anything to do with the Windsors and vice versa.
The Queen Mum kept her distance from David because she knew exactly who David was and how compromised he was, because King George VI had been fully briefed on all of David’s plans during the war. King George VI knew that if the Nazis broke the British spirit during the Battle of Britain and successfully invaded Britain, Hitler would install David as some kind of Vichy Monarch, a Nazi-adjacent king. While those plans were not widely known among the British people, trust that British intelligence and the British government knew of those plans. There’s been some questions about what David knew about it though, and whether he genuinely cosigned the Nazi plot. That’s what a new documentary is about.
Long-standing rumors that Edward VIII aided the Nazis after being forced to abdicate have been given new credence by evidence that he passed critical information to the Germans and urged them to continue “severe bombing” of the country, paving the way for him to return as head of a puppet government.
Edward, who was photographed meeting Hitler in 1937 with his wife, wrote four reports on the lamentable state of the French army in 1940, having been invited to inspect the troops by the French government, who assumed he was loyal to the allied cause. Edward was living in exile in France with Wallis, but still held military rank, acted as a liaison officer and had not been completely cut off by the family.
However after his reports, which detailed low morale and weak leadership, were ignored by the British, he passed them to a friend who was a Nazi informant. A new documentary Edward VIII: Britain’s Traitor King, based on a book of the same name by historian Andrew Lownie, says that Germany then used the information from Edward’s reports to inform their invasion of France in 1940.
The documentary also brings fresh nuance to Edward’s planned role in a potential British puppet government after any German victory. It is a matter of historical record that the Nazis considered such a plan, which was codenamed Operation Willi. However there has long been doubt over whether Edward knew about and endorsed Operation Willi.
The new documentary suggests that Edward was actively interested in the plan and reveals that after Edward was forced to leave Portugal for the Bahamas (where he was appointed governor) by Churchill, he sent a message to his friend Ricardo Espirito Santo, a wealthy banker who was a Nazi informant. The coded telegram said that he was willing to come back to Europe, which is interpreted as meaning he was willing to assume the British throne.
According to another diplomatic cable, Edward told Spanish agents: “Continued severe bombing would make England ready for peace,” and that he was being kept away from England to prevent him working with “English friends of peace.”
Yes, I think David knew Hitler’s plans and he knew all about Operation Willi and he was all for it. I’ve always thought that? I mean, David and Wallis truly went to Berlin and met Hitler in person. Do you think they only talked about the weather? Of course they schemed. Sidenote: David, like every member of the Windsor clan at that time, spoke fluent German. As for David likely submitting reports on Allied military readiness, I believe that too. In recent years, people have tried to do this bizarre historical revisionism when it comes to Edward VIII and I don’t get it at all. He and Wallis were both Nazi sympathizers, if not outright Nazis.
Photos courtesy of Avalon Red.
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- The Duke and Duchess of Windsor,Image: 503865686, License: Rights-managed, Restrictions: , Model Release: no, Credit line: UPPA/Photoshot / Avalon
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- Duke and Duchess of Windsor wedding 1937,Image: 503916179, License: Rights-managed, Restrictions: , Model Release: no, Credit line: UPPA/Photoshot / Avalon
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- Edward VIII Duke of Windsor married Mrs Wallis Simpson at the Chateau de Cande near Tours. 3rd June 1937 Ref: B196_095067_3540 Date: 16.06.1999 Compulsory Credit: UPPA/Photoshot
A nazi sympathizer is as good as a nazi to me. Period. What a disgraceful family.
Project Willi huh? Mmmm hmmmm
Yah I’m with you Girl_Ninja… To me sympathizer means you had feelings, but no actions. If you are an active collaborator and a spy, you are a Nazi, plain and simple.
The Queen Mother totalling with David quite before he got involved with Wallis. It was already understood thAt Elizabeth would be his heir. He didn’t wish to marry and have children. There are even pictures of QM, David and QE2 playing and yazi saluting from 1933. She only started to have a problem when his relationship with Wallis threatened the stability of the institution.
Yes, we need to stop using the term “Nazi sympathizer” – what are they sympathizing with? They are co-signing both the acts and ideology. They are collaborators.
It’s also important to understand historically that there were a number of upper-class Brits/ aristos who were sympathetic toward Hitler and the Nazis in the 1930s and early 1940s before the depraved extent of Hitler’s genocidal megalomania was uncovered. The Brit royals have German origins and German relatives.
Plus, countries and leaders around the world were slow to react when Hitler began invading neighboring countries. There was a significant pacifist sentiment in Britain, before it became clear that Britain had to declare war. The pacifist ‘appeasement’ prime minister, Neville Chamberlain, eventually gave way to Churchill.
This is why it bugs the hell out of me when tabloid reporters lump Harry & Meghan in with the Duke & Duchess of Windsor. Harry taking his family to safety after the coordinated attacks on his wife is very different from a selfish, weak King who abdicated and was a Nazi sympathizer. Wallis & David spent their lives swanning from one rich resort to the other, while Harry & Meghan are actually interested in helping people. It’s incredibly annoying when they blame Meghan as they did Wallis. Wallis did Britain a favor.
Black people doing anything that white people and especially the white establishment don’t approve of = them being labelled as miscreants, narcissists etc
This is how the UK “media” works. They say something enough and the poorly educated populace begin to believe it. They can’t understand why they believe what they believe and cannot give you a single reason why they hate Meghan more than Andrew or the Nazi Windsor’s they just know they hate her.
During lockdown I had a leak in my apartment that necessitated some refurbishment in a bathroom. My builder whom my friend has known for years and describes as a ‘stand-up guy’ rattled on about how much he hated Meghan for THREE days. A mixed race man.
I quizzed him gently one day and it was clear how those views had been seeded. When I quizzed him about Prince Andrew his voice trailed off with not much to say almost in discomfort ….
This is what the UK media have done here in the UK and what they are attempting to now do in the USA, AUS etc and this is why Harry & Meghan HAD TO DO THE NETFLIX DOCUMENTARY.
The UK has perfected the art of online mis-information due to poor media regulation and data mining via companies such as Cambridge Analytica. If people really knew how their data was used, they’d log off now. Sadly our clicks and likes no matter how well meaning (even on this site) fuel the hate for Meghan. Meghan discourse sells.
Yess all day Flower! I wish I could like your comment a 1000 times!
@Elizabeth: “Wallis did Britain a favor.”
As we know Wallis was fine being the King’s mistress. She never wanted to marry him. It was the British government who used David’s obsession with Wallis to get him to abdicate, because he was insistent upon making her Queen. The government knew his tendencies, so they told him she could never be Queen, which is what led to his eventual abdication, which they subtly encouraged. The government worked swiftly in order to avoid David (Edw VIII) ever being coronated.
Meanwhile, the government also fostered and supported the romanticized depiction of Edw VIII nobly choosing “the woman he loved” over the throne. We all know that choosing one’s own happiness and sense of wellbeing over the throne is actually anathema to both the government and the royal firm/ cult! But seriously, even David’s (Edw VIII’s) own father George V, knew David was unfit to become king, in addition to worrying about second son, Bertie’s nervous temperament and his stammering (which was eventually managed with the help of a speech therapist).
The main point is that all hopes for the monarchy back then were focused on young Princess Elizabeth. And even then, her parents did not have the good sense to give her and Margaret an academic education. SMH!
Downthread, @Ameerah’s post says it all! Exactly! 🎯
Yes two totally different circumstances Megan was a biracial divorced woman. Simpson was a known agent of Nazi Germany. Afterwards they rewrote history to say he abdicated for love because the government wouldn’t let him marry a divorced woman but in reality the government knew she was a national security risk who had access to Edward’s classified information and had already leaked them accordingly.
They also knew he was unfit. The Nazi sympathizer thing didn’t become an issue until the war started. He was blowing off important meetings and briefings and was all around considered unfit. Wallis was the scapegoat. But she did them an enormous favor. Because he absolutely would have handed the UK over to Hitler.
He abdicated for love. He was obsessed with Wallis much like Charles being obsessed with Camilla. He did not marry her for any other reason. He even liked when she made fun of him in public. Camilla is awful in her own way but she got all the marbles.
Not to mention Wallis didn’t even WANT to marry him. She got way in over her head.
This part- the historical revision on the abdication is wild if you study history. The royal family was relieved to have David out for a variety of reasons not least of which was that it was thought that war with Germany was inevitable.
Not only that, but often, Wallis was the “friend” sending documents to the nazi. She was the mistress of the German ambassador too and had access to many high ranked nazi. They were despicable people, even by Windsor standards. Sending them on a tropical island once they finally got David out of Europe (instead of going to southern France he left to Franco’s Spain once France abdicated to the nazi) was a way to ensure they’d both be as far away as possible from any Allies intel as no one trusted them. They were both sending intel to Germany since the early 30s, so Parliament found an excuse to force his abdication without creating a scandal. There’re absolutely no comparisons possible between them and H&M.
It’s thought by many that Wallis had carried on an affair with Joachim von Ribbentrop when he was ambassador to Britain in 1936, and that both she and Edward VIII had been supplying him with information during the German invasion of France in 1940. Truly detestable people.
No I don’t believe it was only a thing until after the war started. They knew she was a national security risk for years before that
Andrew Lownie’s book “Traitor King” provides a LOT of detail about Edward and Wallis’ dealings with Nazis and various kind of fascists in Germany, France, Portugal and the US. Mainly gleaned from archives outside the UK.
He also writes a lot about Edward’s alleged sexual proclivities – but he’s pretty contradictory there though one consistent fact is Edward’s extreme masochism. That was partly why Wallis treated him so awful in public, because he loved that. However, the political stuff is the most interesting aspect of the book.
^^ Regarding Edward’s “extreme masochism,” I read in a biography (perhaps it was Brothers at War) that nannies in charge of the older three boys (David, Bertie, and Henry) abused them as babies and toddlers in the nursery. It’s not clear how long the abuse went on before being discovered. The nannies were sacked, but I saw no mention of further consequences for them (likely because the royal firm preferred to keep it unpublicized).
This abuse at such young ages is surely connected to David’s intense need to be dominated by mature female mother figures. Plus, Bertie’s nervous stammering and flying into rages, may have some genesis in this early mistreatment. Sadly, it didn’t help that their mother, Queen Mary, was never able to demonstrate her love for her children. She was stiff and old-fashioned in her demeanor and behavior. Their father, King George V, was even worse in placing, strict, militaristic demands upon his sons, without showing them any affection either.
George V’s behavior toward his sons, is a result of how his father, Edward VII, harshly treated him. And Edward VII, in turn, also had dysfunctional parents, in Queen Victoria and Prince Albert. Queen Victoria’s mother, in turn, treated her as an object to be used for grifting purposes. These are the roots of the British royal family’s toxic dysfunctions!
This is what I don’t get about the hatred of Meghan from the royals, Kate etc. Kate’s mother’s surname was Goldsmith and pretty certain she’s Jewish therefore Kate is also or had ancestry and would therefore have some empathy with Megan but it seems it’s worse to be a WOC to the royals.
Also Frogmore Cottage is where Wallis and David are buried so the RF sending a not so subtle message to Meghan and the British press on how to treat her.
The late Queen Mother did indeed express her views on the Jewish people I think in Evelyn Waugh’s autobiography. Glad M&H got out.
Kate’s family is not and has never been Jewish. This was confirmed by the chairman of the Jewish Genealogy Society. The supposition was based on nothing more than assumptions about the names Goldsmith and Myers, which plenty non-Jews have.
@Nicky, David and Wallis are buried at the Royal Burial grounds in Windsor Great Park, adjacent to the Royal Mausoleum, where Queen Victoria and Prince Albert are buried. FYI– there are quite a number of royal relatives buried at the Royal Burial grounds besides David and Wallis, including children and grandchildren of Queen Victoria, Princess Marina of Greece, and her husband, Prince George, Duke of Kent, et al. There’s a long list, which you can Google.
While, the Mausoleum and the Royal Burial grounds are considered to be on the estate grounds of Frogmore House, they are not located in the backyard of Frogmore House! They are across the lake from Frogmore House. More importantly, Frogmore Cottage is closer to Frogmore House than the Royal Burial grounds are to either FH or FC. As I’ve mentioned many times, Queen Sophia Charlotte (wife of George III) built FC as a relaxing garden retreat adjacent to the larger FH.
It’s more interesting to me that QSC (who has African ancestry on her Portuguese mother’s side) is responsible for building Frogmore Cottage, than is any effort to connect where David & Wallis, and many other royals are buried to FC. In any case, the reference should always be to FH, the larger residence of note on those grounds.
Honestly, it’s only because M&H moved to Frogmore Cottage, and were married at St. George’s Chapel, Windsor, that Windsor Castle, Windsor Great Park, the Royal Mausoleum + burial grounds, and the Frogmore residences, came into popular public consciousness in the first place!
Yes. We’ve known this for a long time. As in, I learned it in high school history.
^^ Some people are not aware of these truths and the extent of Edward’s nefarious dealings though, because it was all purposely covered up for years. In actual fact, the royal firm and the British government were eager to gain access to David’s archives after Wallis’s death, as depicted in The Crown. However, producer Peter Morgan soft-pedaled even that depiction. It was not by chance and there was nothing humorous about the effort to locate and destroy David’s WWII years correspondence. The destruction was felt necessary in order to cover-up David’s traitorous activities, and thus, protect the royal family’s image.
Totally thought everyone knew he was a Nazi.
^^ The Duke’s Nazi leanings have been known about for years because the pictures of him and Wallis meeting with Hitler have been widely seen. It’s just that his contact with Hitler has been purposely portrayed as the Duke being used or taken in, when in fact, the Duke was a full participant in scheming for his own benefit. There really hasn’t been a lot of direct public scrutiny on the serious nature of the Duke’s traitorous activities, due to the cover-up influence of the royal firm, intended to protect the monarchy’s image.
There are enterprising journalists and investigators who have followed leads and written books over the years. I read a couple of eye-opening books earlier this year, which I mentioned in recent threads on CB, to let some posters know not to believe the romanticized portrayal of the Duke in The Crown. Andrew Lownie’s book picks up on information in books that were published years ago, e.g., Hidden Agenda: How the Duke of Windsor Betrayed the Allies, by Martin Allen (2000).
It was certainly known by intelligence agencies the extent of the Duke’s treasonous culpability. That’s why he and Wallis were exiled to the Bahamas, where they hated living. They were unkind to the native people. The Duke was also involved in questionable dealings there with a wealthy industrialist whose unsolved (possibly mob-related murder) made headlines. The below-linked article summarizes what happened:
https://www.paulinemontagna.com.au/a-prince-in-hot-water-the-duke-of-windsor-and-the-murder-of-sir-harry-oakes/
There are books, and even plays written about this murder in the Bahamas. Again, the full extent and details of the Duke’s WWII scandals have not been widely known.
Of course he knew. Of course he was onboard with any scheme that would let him reclaim what he saw as his rightful position. And looking at Charles with his cash for honors mess and accepting money from the family of one of history’s greatest monsters, and William with his…well, everything, you’d almost think that this hunger for power at any cost is hereditary.
I find it interesting that David’s parents semi-openly acknowledged that he was never suited for the throne, just as QEII seemed to have little faith in Charles, and Diana, according to some, had qualms about William’s suitability as well. When you see that pattern emerging, generation after generation, you’d think SOMEONE would realize that the system is broken beyond repair.
Both the Queen and Philip didn’t think Charles was shit. Makes you wonder what they knew about him.
What exactly did you hear about Diana’s opinion of William? What I’ve heard is that Diana didn’t think William had the right temperament to be King. She thought that Harry did and that’s why she nicknamed him “Good King Harry”. If Diana always believed Harry should help William with his reign, it’s for that reason.
I feel like he was and is viewed as a temporary caretaker of the throne until Wills ascends.
@Snuffles – What I heard about Diana was basically just what you said, that she realized that William didn’t have the right temperament. But this is the first I’ve heard of “Good King Harry’s” nickname, and it really is so apt! I remember during the Queen’s funeral and the related, as they tried over and over to humiliate Harry, all of us here were saying that Harry was actually the only one carrying himself with all the dignity of a king. And Diana apparently saw those qualities when he was just a little boy! I also love that as an example of her efforts to ensure that Harry knew that he was special in his own right and more than just a “spare”.
@Snuffles: “Both the Queen and Philip didn’t think Charles was shit. Makes you wonder what they knew about him.”
Well, honestly, they were Charles’ parents. If you ask me, they failed him when he was a child. The rest is the history of a dysfunctional, toxic royal family/ firm/ cult.
What a thing for parents to think! Their main job was to bring up a child that was suitable to be King, since they knew he would be imposed on the nation as Head of State. They failed in that duty if they didn’t think he was good enough, just as they failed in Andrews case. Although I think Phil had little to do with Andrew, maybe because he dudoected he wasn’t his.
People who act surprised at hearing Wallis & Ed were Nazi sympathizers have not been paying attention. People already forget that the BRF are a German ancestral family. Queen Victoria was irritated when she had to speak [her broken] English, they changed their name to hide their German ancestry, and they still do German Christmas traditions to this day. I mean no offense to all the non-Nazi German families. It is scary to think of how differently the world could have turned out with only a few different victories and losses.
That’s right. The family the British love to declare is holier than thou and the pinnacle of class and decorum is GERMAN! And before that, FRENCH! Y’all don’t have a British monarch, you have interlopers and are just sitting there accepting that. Now, at least William is part English (and Scottish) because of Diana, but he looks more “Windsor” every day. And acts like a Nazi. There’s your Royals, folks.
William has three lines of descent from George 3 . He looks hanoverian to me.
Churchill knew the truth of W$E.
He banished them to the tropics to get them as far away as possible.
Yes, W&E met with Hitler himself, all of this has been known for decades.
Traitors to England and the Allies.
@That’sNotOkay, the history of royalty throughout Europe involves intermarriage between various royal houses in different countries. It’s not unusual, except that once WWI broke out, the Saxe-Coburg-Gothas felt the urgent need to blanket their German origins by adopting the more English moniker, Windsor, which also referenced historic Windsor Castle.
The British royals are related to the Danes, to the Russians, and to the Spanish royal family, but are largely German due to the Hanovers being brought over to rule England because of their Stuart connection.
Kaiser Wilhelm was a grandson of Queen Victoria, as was George V, and so WWI was basically a fight between cousins.
And Tsar Nicholas II was first cousin to George V. Their mothers (Alexandra & Dagmar/Marie) were sisters, Danish princesses.
And he was never tried for High Treason and lived in luxury till the end of his days.
My interpretation of the above is that he clearly revealed positions that helped the Nazi’s in return for a position in Europe much like his uncle Willheim.
Also notice that this was his Sydney Johnson era. So on the one hand he’s planning his aryan Kingship whilst training a black valet.
The Queen Mother is on film doing the Hitler salute so I’m not sure she was bothered about David’s Nazi sympathies. Most aristos liked Hitler in the beginning and wanted someone like him to become PM of the UK. She was more pissed that he abdicated and she was forced to become Queen Consort.
Well, you also have to remember that the Nazi salute wasn’t the “Nazi salute” at first. It didn’t become that until the war started. Even Olympic athletes did it when the Olympics were held in Germany.
@Amy Bee: “She was more pissed that he abdicated and she was forced to become Queen Consort.”
Having viewed the documentary about Lownie’s research, linked in this thread, I have come to realize that for Elizabeth Bowes-Lyon aka, the Queen Mother, her utter dislike of David and Wallis was about much more than the abdication! I’m sure that she and Bertie knew that David had to be forced to abdicate, so she probably blamed David more for his irresponsibility and his lack of character. The resulting strains placed upon Bertie were unforgivable. Even Bertie wasn’t suited to be King. Yet despite his serious limitations, he stepped up to the plate, with his wife’s encouraging support.
I think EB-L thoroughly disapproved of both David and Wallis. I don’t think there’s any credence to the gossip that she was interested in David. Most likely, they made fun of her because she disapproved of their relationship. But after seeing the documentary, I think EB-L was mostly livid about David betraying his country, his brother, and the monarchy. Despite her own serious character flaws, she was clearly patriotic, courageous during the war years, and unfailingly supportive of her physically weak, temperamental husband.
She probably never forgave David for his treason and his selfishness. She didn’t like the difficult position that Bertie was placed in, but she seemingly enjoyed the status and perks of being Queen. Surely she mostly blamed David’s treachery for the burdens her husband faced, which probably contributed to Bertie’s highly addicted cigarette habit — ultimately the cause of his premature death. Obviously, the real reason why EB-L despised David couldn’t be publicly revealed, so it was always claimed to be only about the abdication.
She also pursued him at first, but he chose Wallis instead.
^^ Where’s the actual confirmed source for this, outside of unproven, malicious gossip by Lady Colin Campbell?
Plus, David did not choose Wallis. Her married girlfriend, whom David was having an affair with, asked Wallis to babysit David while she went on vacation. Wallis then stole David’s affections because she could, and it was easy.
It’s true that many British aristocrats, as well as other European nobles, admired Hitler before the war. But it’s probably safe to say Hitler alienated most when he began invading and bombing their countries. The Queen Mother certainly held abhorrent political views and was reportedly very racist, but once the war began she became an enthusiastic supporter of the British war effort. It was partly because of her and her husband’s public devotion to that effort and their visibility in London during the blitz that the British monarchy has survived to this day. It was also the reason for much of the good will Elizabeth, their daughter, enjoyed upon becoming queen and throughout her early reign.
The Queen Mother was Elizabeth Bowes-Lyon before she married, and the Duchess of York, after she married. When her husband, Bertie, became George VI, she became Queen Elizabeth, the Queen Consort. Had they realized that their older daughter would one day become Queen, they never would have named her Elizabeth. By having the same first name as her daughter, the former Queen Consort was referred to as Queen Elizabeth, the Queen Mother, when her daughter inherited the throne. She hated being called the Queen Mother. In contrast, Queen Mary was always known as Queen Mary, not the Queen Mother.
This entire family has blood on their hands – and their forefathers do too. I am just LOVING that the truth is FINALLY beginning to come to the surface about them. And I do believe it was petty Betty who kept the flood gates of hell closed.
Edward’s Nazi sympathizing has been public knowledge for decades. I have books written in the sixties, seventies and eighties by historians revealing his pro-Axis tendencies as well as Wallis’s, and it’s almost certain she had an affair with Ribbentrop prior to hooking up with Edward.
There are also several books written about his Nazi connections in recent years. One German historian (can’t remember her name) has trailed through archives in Spain, Germany and many other countries. Andrew Lownie’s “Traitor King” came out last year. I think that is the most recent book on this subject. The evidence is pretty damning.
Even long after the end of WWII Edward still maintained that Hitler’s defeat was a great loss to Europe.
@ArtHistorian — you may find this documentary interesting! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BNJAtsPyhGQ
Thank you so much for the link to the fascinating documentary! I learned about Edward’s Nazi ties from the episode of The Crown but the info included in this doc is mind-blowing.
@Seraphina: “I do believe it was petty Betty who kept the flood gates of hell closed.”
^^ LOL. Yes, for sure. Her grandfather, George V prayed that nothing would come between Elizabeth inheriting the throne. Now that she’s finally gone after a 70-year reign, all bets are off. But it’s a confluence of events, in addition to karma. In recent years, more attention is being placed on examining the impacts of colonialism, and the U.K.’s extensive role in the slave trade.
In addition, the firm’s and the BM’s continued attacks against Meghan are only serving to place a huge focus on Britain’s history of systemic racism and classism. So, the firm is bringing the increased scrutiny and the fires of hell upon itself. In the midst of all the scrutiny, it’s become quite obvious that “the Emperor has no clothes!”
Queen Victoria’s grandson…Prince Charles Edwards (see them names ☹️) was a TOP Nazi involved with Hitler’s ethnic cleansing program…yet he’s pretty much been written out of history…yet Queen Elizabeth named her children after him…So yea…ALL OF THEM are gross AF when it comes to the Nazi party because the Royal Families ties to Germany…via Queen Victoria was SKRONG AF!
WTH is SKRONG??
Obviously a typo.
I believe she’s using it as slang to mean super strong, hence the capitalization and AF and exclamation. Very strong…
CES was one of those stripped of Brit titles in 1917. then joined the SA and is the grandfather in law of King of Sweden
Charles was named after his great great uncle haakon of Norway whose birthday name was Charles of Denmark. He was called Charles, or Carl, within the family even after being elected to Norway’s throne in 1905. He was very close to his wife’s family. Queen Maud was George VI’s aunt and spent a good part of the war in the uk. Haakon was also great uncle to Philip.
Didn’t this documentary come out back in March? Why are they writing about it now?
Absolutely they knew. They were tight as thieves with the whole Brit aristo Nazi set. Wallis’ bf was Diana Mitford whose husband was head of the British Union of Fascists.
Diana’s sister Decca was a communist
Communist does not equal fascist.
The Mitford sisters were wild all with their own extremely different but extreme views.
Yeah, you had Jessica on the one hand who was a Communist and despised her sisters’ right wing views and campaigned for civil rights, then the ones like Unity who was so obsessed with Hitler she tried to commit suicide when England declared war (she and Diana were very close). Pamela and her husband supported Hitler’s Final Solution and hoped for a version in the UK.
The Mitfords were either fascists or happy to remain in the upper-crust. Jessica was the only one who did anything positive in her life.
@C
Nancy was also mostly OK. Aristo but moderate socialist. A prolific writer and peacekeeper between her more radical sisters
Yes, that’s true. Then there was Deborah who just managed Chatsworth, lol.
The Rothmere who founded the Daily Mail was an open supporter of the Nazis and fascism. His great grandson now runs it.
Love seeing more of this type of coverage, it is needed in the general media. Less of the fantasy and more on the historical and current actions, and machinations of certain members of this “family”.
In this era, incessant coverage of every single one involved in money for access, arms trade discussions, trafficking, odd alliances, etc.
Agree!
People don’t want to accept that there were Nazi sympathizers in British aristocracy at the time and even some of the family was questionable. We all know about Philip’s Nazi sisters, but “Charlie” Coburg was extremely close to Hitler and was his representative at events like George V’s funeral. Even after the war some royals defended him. And the shadiness about possible collaboration from Prince George Duke of Kent.
I don’t think these people were trying to influence WW2 to be won for Germany at British expense but I definitely don’t think all of them considered war as necessary as Churchill and George VI did and had some questionable ethics in wanting to “avoid” it or soften it.
Churchill worked really hard to erase the Nazi implications from the royal family. Even now they trot out David as justification for getting rid of him, but it wasn’t just him.
Are we surprised that many members of the RF would not balk at Hitler’s teachings? Seeing that the ideologies of the Divine Right of Kings, colonialism, and eugenics overlap and often align, I would presume that many of them comprise the choir to his preacher. A master race; a family divined to rule over the people, who are by nature and by law, inferior. It did not take Hitler a quantum leap to go from that to genocide. Similarly, when the Belgian Congo invaded Ruanda-urundi, they imported with them, the philosophy of craniology, which became the basis of Tutsi superiority and set the stage for the Rawanda genocide. These ideas, inherently flawed and dangerous when dormant, will wreak havoc and mass destruction when actively practiced. That’s why the racism of the present day BRF must be exposed and condemned; if they do not progress (modernize), they will regress, and in the best case scenario, they will become a relic of the past.
The British hereditary monarchy is literally based on white supremacy so the Windsor family basically did what the Nazis had planned except only keeping power in one family.
Lux, you said it all and perfectly 👏
Before Churchill became PM, many in the establishment were pro-Nazi, or at least supported appeasement with Germany. Neville Chamberlain’s official policy toward Germany was appeasement, and several members of the royal family assisted him with that policy.
I’m glad you mentioned the Duke of Kent. I disappeared down that rabbit hole a few months ago. There are so many unanswered questions about his death and the cover up afterward. Now I want The Crown to do a prequel and cover that generation in depth. So many scandals and mysteries to choose from.
@Dara I’ve often wondered if George Duke of Kent’s plane crash was reall y an accident
It’s known to have been mysterious. It’s been discussed in a number of books, including Brothers at War. The book I mentioned earlier, Hidden Agenda: How the Duke of Windsor Betrayed the Allies, indicates that George Duke of Kent is suspected of serving as an intermediary during the war for his brother David, helping to pass messages to Hitler.
The fact that George Duke of Kent also struggled with unresolved drug addiction and indiscreet sex scandals certainly made his mysterious death during the war in an airplane crash, very convenient for the royal firm. Of course, it wasn’t convenient for his wife, Princess Marina, who was left destitute with three young children. Marina was dependent upon George VI’s, and later upon QE-II’s, benevolent financial assistance. This is the roots and origins of Marina’s and her daughter, Princess Alexandra’s slavish devotion to the monarchy.
Philips sisters were married to nazis.
He absolutely did. It is in many history books. I don’t know why this is being questioned now.
^^ The full extent of David, Duke of Windsor’s treasonous activities was NOT widely known, until recent years. It was kept on the down-low and covered up for years, despite knowledge in some quarters, and investigative journalism. As an institution, the royal firm used its clout to keep the more incriminating details covered up from full public dissemination. That’s why David’s correspondence and archival documents were destroyed by his family after Wallis’s death.
His Nazi-leanings and his selfish indulgences were known about. But the full extent of his treasonous actions during WWII, were purposely covered up, softened, kept quiet, and largely unpublicized for years. Even David’s abdication has been overly romanticized on purpose, in order to camouflage the government’s direct role. At all costs, they did not want David/ Edward VIII to be coronated.
George has his under-eye bulge, doesn’t he?
It is strange that this article says the Duke of Windsor was soft-pedaled in The Crown because there is a whole episode called Vergangenheit where they talk about the Marburg Files and show the extent of his treachery. They definitely walk it back in later seasons as he ages but they mention his Nazi connection again in season 5 after his death. Although I agree, they should have covered it more- honestly, I’d love to see a prequel show that focused just on the Duke of Windsor so we can see more in depth how this all went down.
There is only one episode about it. Otherwise they ignore it, and try to paint him as a sad figure who gave up the crown for love and plays bagpipes in a sad fashion in his mansion garden. It should have been woven throughout every episode about him.
Lol is this meant to be shocking that David was a Nazi sympathizer? The entire royal and British establishment were Nazi sympathizers. They all believed that whiteness was superior. Their issue was that Hitler’s ambitions would lead to a conquered Britain not his beliefs which they shared. Winston Churchill in particular truly believed in Hitler’s racial hierarchy.
The Windsors only changed their name because monarchies were being overthrown and they didn’t want to be next. They wanted to seem more English to their British subjects and less like the Germans fighting England. Once Germany lost the Windsors were careful to appear anti-Nazi but they weren’t. Prince Philip was still allowed to marry Elizabeth and most of his sisters were Nazis married to Nazi Officers. They just couldn’t come to the wedding and have public facing roles. 20-30yrs later Prince Michael of Kent married in to the royal family and her father was a Nazi Officer.
Sadly during Hitler’s time there was a lot of deeply entrenched racism and many governments agreed with his sentiments. Separating the races, banning interracial marriage etc, but not many govts agreed with state sanctioned mass killings. THIS and all the conquering is how Hitler differed from other white leaders of his time.
Now times and govts have changed and the Windsors are stuck in an awkward position of having a lot of Nazi ties in a world far less sympathetic to Nazi beliefs. These types of conversations also highlight how comfortable the British monarchy has always been with various dictatorships and their similarities with the British monarchy.
They changed their name to Windsor during WWI, not WWII. It was George V who made that move. I agree with everything else you said.
Having just recently read ‘Traitor King’, it did leave me suspecting that Wallis was the true believer, but Ed8 was far too stupid and narcissistic to have the capability to form any kind of conviction or belief system that wasn’t completely self-absorbed. He was a white supremacist and Nazi on the superficial level of liking it because it flattered his vanity, but I’m not sure that he had the capability of thinking through any kind of philosphical underpinning, however evil. He was just a spoiled toddler for his entire life.
Tip of the iceberg, though. As the files are declassified and becoming available to historians, it’s coming out just how many fascists and Nazi supporters were in the UK in the 1930s and all through WW2. They were everywhere, in every social class, the military, government, civil service, aristocracy, and the royal family. All through the war there were Nazi sympathisers active in the UK, and when the war was over there was a dilemma as to what to do with them, particularly the wealthy and/or aristocratic ones. The decision was to just say nothing, cover it up, and do nothing about them. They lived out their lives, and it’s only coming out now. Of course, a lot of the files have been mysteriously disappeared, and the royal ones have a longer declassification period. How convenient.
We actually knew this already though? I read books about it back in the 90s and early 2000s. There is a difference between what most of them did and what Edward did. He was much worse, and I worry people will think he was somehow normal.
Hannah Arendt said “When everyone is guilty, no one is.” Edward is very guilty, as an individual.
@Emily_C: “We actually already knew this though?”
Once again, what you knew and happened to read about 20+ years ago, is not what everybody knows. For sure, the Duke’s Nazi-leanings have been widely known about, but generally softened. The full extent and details of the Duke’s treasonous activities during WWII were definitely not known by the general public. And not everybody has read the books that have been published.
Take a look at the linked documentary in this thread. The full extent of the Duke’s betrayals against his country, and against his own family, were purposely covered up to protect the monarchy’s image. Plus, it’s only been over the last 20 to 30 years that detailed documentary evidence has been uncovered in archives, assessed, and placed into context by historians and investigative journalists.
Moreover, the very recent romanticized depiction of the Duke in The Crown series has swayed the perceptions of many young people who are unaware of more accurate portrayals. Plus, they haven’t read about the Duke’s selfish behavior patterns and treasonous history, documented in recent films and publications.
@B, you mean Princess Michael of Kent (her real name: Marie-Christine von Reibnitz). While, it’s clear that her behavior has been characteristic of racism, FYI– shortly after she was born near the end of WWII, her father died, so she never knew him. Her mother fled with her and her brother, to Austria, where she was raised.
Here’s a link to an article on CBC (Canadian public broadcaster) and the documentary is available on CBC GEM
https://www.cbc.ca/documentaries/the-passionate-eye/historians-believe-the-duke-of-windsor-actively-collaborated-with-the-nazis-during-the-second-world-war-1.6635225
Yes it’s pretty good. Canadian author Timothy Findley also wrote a novel about this in 1981 called Famous Last Words. Great read.
Findley is such a good writer. His novel, The Wars, is to my mind one of the best pieces of fiction on WWI. He really conveys a sense of the trenches. That is due at least partly because he built a set of trenches in his backyard and slept in them while writing the novel. I always thought that was wild!
Loved that book, and The Wars. He was/is truly a great Canadian literary icon.
Lissen, he was a Nazi collaborator–the British government and the royal family worked really hard to make sure there would be no documents left to show that–both in Germany, UK and US. Unfortunately for them, there’s still enough out there. None of you will be surprised to discover that the media back then was much like now. Clivedon (I think) was a socialist and tried to get people to understand what the media was doing by selling peace. Evidently, the aristocrats didn’t want their infrastructure bombed!!! Anyway, Edward wanted to sell peace with the help of the US (wasn’t going to happen) and carve up Europe for Hitler and Edward would get the throne back. When I say that the US monitored communications to and from the Bahamas while Edward was there, I mean exactly that. They kept an eye on him.
This is just another way that the media and brf have worked together to sell a fairy tale. Unfortunately, they don’t get to tell the entire world to ignore the evidence.
This is why I say that if Chuck goes after the Sussexes titles, they will be faced with the fact that they let Edward keep his titles AND gave him an allowance. So, you support the Nazi, but H&M???????? I’m happy to see that this is finally seeing the light of day for a broader audience.
Saucy&Sassy, I agree. The evidence, hard copy evidence, is irrefutable. Since I’m neither brf nor rr, I don’t possess the ability to ignore it and twist the narrative.
The documentary was well-titled. This was a traitor king with blood on his hands.
Shame!
With a nose job, she’s the spit of Pippa.
There should be a science fiction conspiracy novel about a lab in Argentina.
Oh god don’t give the History Channel any ideas.
Infrequent commentor here.
The links between the Windsor history and current events with MM & H are so obvious. The BRF is the most true representation of white supremacy in the world today and the beliefs and practices are still in play now behind palace curtains as we have recently seen.
It would be interesting to know how much of his family history H was truly aware of. To bring M into his family with such a back story demonstrates either a lack of knowledge or naivety on his behalf, although they never really paid attention to H when he was growing up. How strong were his unconscious biases when he first started his relationship with M.
The war on M is so driven by all of this.
It has only been 80 years since WW2. The problem being that we won the war, but we never defeated the Nazis.
I also wonder how much Harry knew then compared to the education he has received at the hands of their maltreatment and the absolute hatred and exclusion displayed toward his wife and the loss of status he has seen handed out to his own children. What I am pleasantly surprised and still hopeful about is that in spite of the steep learning curve somehow he overcame his own white fragility and kept an open mind.
Why would Harry know about much of this? He wouldn’t. If the elders in the firm and in the royal family were so eager to cover up the Duke of Windsor’s WWII scandals to protect the monarchy, why would anyone in the younger generation know anything about the WWII treasonous activities of a great-grand uncle?
Even in our own families, there’s quite a bit that elder relatives may have experienced or situations they may have been involved in that younger people in the family would never know about, unless they specifically sought out elders to ask questions, or uncovered family documentation or archival info in public records.
Jodes, I believe in the Netflix docuseries he talks about learning about institutional racism after getting together with Meghan. I think his years in the military and time spent in Africa made a huge difference for him and his open mindedness.
^^ Exactly @Saucy&Sassy, Harry has spoken quite often in recent years about his own awakening to the full extent of prejudice, racism, and unconscious bias, both societal and personal. He’s been on a learning curve that he has fully acknowledged. In the Netflix doc, Harry clearly said that he’s proud of his children’s mixed race heritage. He indicated that making the documentary and doing all the work he and Meg are doing with Archewell and collaborating organizations, is in order to be able to positively respond to his children when they grow up in the world and begin asking questions. He wants to be able to look them in the eyes when they ask what he did in response to societal problems, and in reaction to the personalized racist attacks that Meghan has suffered, etc.
It is known.
@Tikichica, what has been known about, is the Duke of Windsor’s weak character, his unfitness to be king, his Nazi-leanings, and his suspected collusion during the war. But it was generally framed as the Duke being used by Hitler. The book I read sometime last year, which I linked in this thread, Hidden Agenda, by Martin Allen, was published in 2000, so that’s been out there for awhile, along with other material. Still, that doesn’t mean everyone knew about the claims made in a number of books and films.
Plus, as the documentary linked in this thread points out, despite a lot being known or suspected in some quarters about the Duke of Windsor’s treachery, there was not much specific evidence available. Now, with Andrew Lownie’s and other intrepid researchers’ hard work, more detailed documentation has been uncovered. The royal firm and the British government had done their best to destroy and cover-up evidence, but a new day has dawned. Added to this, is the fact that more people are paying attention to what has been known for awhile by a few. The big difference now is that specific incriminating documentary evidence has been located that the BG and the firm were unable to destroy.
I’m going to check out the book…looks really interesting. In addition to Wallis Simpson’s Nazi ties, I’d also heard that she didn’t necessarily WANT to marry him…she was okay with being a “royal mistress” as a) she was technically still married, and b) as said above she had the Nazi boyfriend. HE was the one who insisted on sacrificing everything “for love” which I don’t think she reciprocated, really.
This is true. She thought that both she and her then-husband Ernest Simpson could rake in perquisites and money being Edward’s sidepiece. It ran on too long for Ernest, and eventually he did a Thelma Furness on Wallis, who had allowed a friend of hers to “entertain” Ernest. He fell in love with this woman and consented for this reason to a divorce. The real love of her life wasn’t Edward Windsor, but Ernest Simpson. I’m sure Wallis loved David in her own way, but not in his way. She was stuck with him all those long years.
I have also read the supposition that Elizabeth Bowes-Lyon had first trained her sights on Edward for a husband, but she was not his speed, and the putdown wounded her. Instead, she decided on the Duke of York for a husband. Her anger and bitterness towards Wallis was not just because of the Nazi connection; but she ended up queen anyway. And George V and Queen Mary had already decided long before the Nazis and WW II that Edward was unfit, particularly as he grew older and kept bedhopping among the rich and married aristos instead of settling down. When Princess Elizabeth was born, and then her sister Margaret, I think members of the Establishment began to make preparations “just in case.” Even George V said before his death that he hoped that Elizabeth would be able to succeed to the crown.
I suggest folks look up Lucy Worsley’s series on the first Georges, the Hanoverian kings. If you think things are bad now, George I had had his wife’s lover murdered, and then divorced and held the queen captive in Hanover for the rest of her life. He, of course, continued to have mistresses throughout his life. And every king/queen and heir hated each other.
Yes, Lucy Worsley’s Georges series was amazing. I love her programs! In a prescient moment, just before King George V died, he said of Edward “After I am dead, the boy will ruin himself in 12 months”. A few months later he abdicated.
@Sussexfan, If your source for the ‘supposition’ is Lady Colin Campbell, which is likely, I wouldn’t believe it at all. Lady Colin is a malicious gossip, not a reliable source of accurate information. Friends of Wallis Simpson apparently passed this gossip on to Lady Colin. I believe Elizabeth Bowes-Lyon disapproved of David’s dalliances with married women. In fact, she possibly rejected him, which might be why he ever afterward made fun of her, and nicknamed her, ‘Cookie.’
From what I have read and seen in documentaries about the young Elizabeth Bowes-Lyon, she had a sheltered, privileged upbringing in Scotland, which likely made her very unsophisticated when she came into contact as a young lady with Bertie’s and David’s fast young royals social set. George VI made an effort to get Bertie to not continue following David’s wild ways (i.e., carousing with married women). Thus, Bertie was less rowdy when he met Elizabeth B-L. It was Bertie who fell for Elizabeth, not vice versa.
The supposition that Elizabeth B-L was ever interested in David is very speculative, and unproven. I think she was flighty and unsure of what she wanted in her late teens and early 20s. Plus, she had a lot of suitors. She didn’t need to “train her sights” on anyone. Once Bertie fell for her, his parents pulled strings to get a particular suitor who wanted to marry her, shipped out on a military assignment. This allowed Bertie more of an advantage to pursue her affections. It’s known that young Elizabeth B-L turned down Bertie’s proposal of marriage three times, before finally accepting his offer. The suitor who had been sent away was devastated when he learned about her engagement. Most likely, it was EB-L’s parents who wanted her to marry into the royal family.
I am not sure if Edward did, but the Daily Mail certainly did! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daily_Mail#Support_for_fascism_under_Rothermere
These allegations with the specific type of documents that got into the hands of the enemy was discussed in a much older documentary.
It claimed that was the real reason that he abdicated, not his marriage to Wallis-Simpson.
The government of the day insisted that he give up the title.
The family was not given a choice.
Yes, there was another documentary titled “Traitor King” sometime back in the mid-90s.
Edward VIII is an interesting character study. I’ve often felt his experiences in WW1 left him cynical of the whole thing including the British Empire. All available evidence points towards him being an intelligence asset for the Third Reich. It’s noteworthy that prior to September of 1939 Hitler fully expected Britain to come in as an ally to Nazi Germany.
He was traitorous for sure after the abdication, but prior to it EdVIII’s views were more-or-less in line with the British aristocracy’s views. They were watching Hitler’s rise in the 30s and reasoning that Britain would eventually face a choice between Fascism and Communism… and only Fascism would allow them to maintain their power and position.
(Power-hungry racists/tribalists and folks concerned with status tend to gravitate to “strongman”-type leaders. Notice any parallels to today?)
IMO the most interesting part is that his proposed marriage to Wallis wasn’t the reason he was forced to abdicate, although it certainly didn’t help his cause. He was pushed out because he refused to pay even a tiny bit of attention to matters of state. He would leave classified documents lying around the Red Fort, spilling wine on them while he caroused (and not just with Wallis.) PM Stanley Baldwin pleaded with him to even just pretend to act the part of King but he wouldn’t listen. At the time I don’t think they necessarily suspected him of being a Nazi asset (he was considered to be too dumb to be much of anything) but they were pretty sure his frequent “guests” were gaining access to state secrets through his carelessness, which is why he had to go.
LOL I meant Fort Belvedere, not the Red Fort! I’ve been watching too much Game of Thrones. 🤪
Exactly. He was certainly a wastrel King and not the sharpest knife in the drawer, aided and abetted by Wallis, but much of his bad behaviour and Wallis’s influence on him was kept from the public. Baldwin couldn’t stand her and she provided the perfect excuse to bounce him off the throne. She was the sacrificial lamb.
He was very easy to influence through flattery and gifts. And like most of his class he was very racist and anti-Semitic.
I’m worried that people have forgotten how incredibly antisemitic Europe has been throughout most of its history. Antisemitism has been a scourge for millennia, and it used to be completely normalized.
My dad used to tell the story of his father, who had emigrated to the US from Ireland, laughing with delight as he listened to the radio broadcast of Edward’s abdication.
My grandfather loathed the British monarchy because of the horrors it had inflicted on the Irish.
Edward’s relationship to Hitler and the Nazi regime was part and parcel of a royal family history of colonialism, oppression, ruthless power-seeking and bigotry. The Windsors can attempt to whitewash that history, and try to distance themselves from Edward, but they’re all products of the same terrible system.
Only Harry seems to have done the necessary work of challenging the ingrained racism.
Operation Willi was actually the German code name for the unsuccessful attempt by the SS to kidnap the Duke in July 1940 and induce him to work with Hitler for a peace settlement with Britain, putting Edward back on the throne after the German conquest. However once France fell he and Wallis had to leave immediately as the British government had informed them about the plot and that they had to get to neutral Spain asap. However Generalissimo Franco was openly pro-Axis and as Edward was still considered a serving British officer, it would be very dangerous for the Duke and Duchess if Spain joined Germany in the war. So off they went to Portugal leaving the Germans scratching their heads and fuming, trying to figure out how to carry out the kidnapping. That’s when Churchill stepped in and ordered the Duke and Duchess to the Bahamas and the position as Governor. They both hated it there.
I’m a bit of an Edward and Wallis nerd and have a number of books about them — I’ll definitely be reading this one!
@Jaded. Imagine the British gov’t/Churchill having to babysit/track David whilst trying to win a war. Must have been frustrating AF to put resources there.
Although he decided to abdicate and marry Wallis Simpson, he was not an innocent defector due to his affiliation and views concerning this HEINOUS/VILE group:
https://www.google.com/search?q=documentaries+about+duke+of+windsor%27s+nazi+affliations&rlz=1C1CAFA_enUS667US667&oq=documentaries+about+duke+of+windsor%27s+nazi+affliations&aqs=chrome..69i57j33i10i160l3.26441j0j15&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8
The people, regardless of countries/nations, who criticized Diana and now Meghan, have not said ANYTHING about Prince David and his activities which caused a plethora of problems on a worldwide scale in Global History at that time! 🤷♀️ 🤬
Thank you, this is exactly why I enjoy reading the Celebitchy comments 🙂
Same. I love it when everyone history nerds out!
I just wrote about this in the Kate Christmas post and, here, a documentary is coming out. Edward wanted to be a real king. It was better for the monarchy to say he left for Wallis and he sympathize with the nazi. Cause it makes the whole monarchy look weak if it’s just ” hey, he was willing to be under a foreign power if it meant getting rid of parliament”. At this point in British history their parliament and 1% are so inefficient and out if touch. I can see them backing a new type of government. They can’t even reverse brexit.
I’m guessing he was forced to abdicate. I wonder if someone had dirt on him to “help his decision.” Hmmm