The issue of “Beyonce the songwriter” is one which has been around for years, and will be around for decades. The Beyhive will tell us that of course Beyonce is a brilliant songwriter who has co-created hit after hit after hit. Music industry insiders tell some different stories, and some haters even claim that Beyonce doesn’t write any of her music. One thing Beyonce is good at though? Crediting all of her “co-writers.” On Lemonade, she had 72 co-songwriters. For just one song on Renaissance, “Alien Superstar,” she has 24 writers. Here are all of the credits:
Beyoncé teamed up with an army of writers for this throbbing dance track. They are (deep breath): American House DJ, Honey Dijon, Kanye West’s go-to co-producer Mike Dean, production duo Nova Wav, Bey’s husband Jay-Z, Jay-Z collaborator Levar Coppin, R&B singer-songwriter Lucky Daye, UK singer-songwriter Labrinth, rapper/singer 070 Shake, 070’s producer Dave Hamelin, Swedish producer Rami Yacoub, Dutch singer-songwriter Leven Kali, Austrian House producer Peter Rauhofer, New Jersey singer-songwriter Kam DeLa, California producer Sal Dali, Georgia songwriter Ink, London producer Luke Solomon and multi-national deep house producer Chris Penny. Foremost Poets, under his real name John Holiday, “I’m Too Sexy” writers Rob Manzoli, Richard Fairbrass and Christopher Fairbrass, and Barbara Ann Teer all receive songwriting credits as well.
All of those credits and she doesn’t even list Prince? Because “Alien Superstar” sounds A LOT like Prince, especially the bridge. Anyway, as everyone binges Renaissance on a loop, Diane Warren decided to pipe up. Warren is one of the most famous songwriters in the world, and she usually works alone to craft her songs. Meaning, there’s one credit on her songs: Diane Warren. This is what she tweeted:
How can there be 24 writers on a song?🙄
— Diane Warren (@Diane_Warren) August 1, 2022
This isn't meant as shade, I'm just curious
— Diane Warren (@Diane_Warren) August 1, 2022
That's 23 more than are on mine😜
— Diane Warren (@Diane_Warren) August 1, 2022
Ok, it's prob samples that add up the ammount of writerrs
— Diane Warren (@Diane_Warren) August 1, 2022
The Beyhive was in full attack mode. Against Diane Warren!! Surely the Hive could have just left this one go? Does the Beyhive really want to get into the nitty-gritty of Beyonce’s songwriting credits? Really? Anyway, yes, Warren was being shady. When you have this kind of back catalog of songwriting credits, you can actually afford to poke the Beyhive a little.
Seriously though, how does this song not have a Prince credit?
Photos courtesy of Avalon Red, Backgrid.
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- 94th Oscars® nominee Diane Warren arrives at the Oscar Nominee Luncheon held at the Fairmont Century Plaza on Monday, March 7, 2022. The 94th Oscars will air on Sunday, March 27, 2022 live on ABC.,Image: 668785460, License: Rights-managed, Restrictions: ©A.M.P.A.S. All rights reserved., Model Release: no, Credit line: Phil McCarten / Avalon
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- Oscar® nominee Diane Warren arrives on the red carpet of the 94th Oscars® at the Dolby Theatre at the Ovation Hollywood in Los Angeles, CA, on Sunday, March 27, 2022.,Image: 673483314, License: Rights-managed, Restrictions: ©A.M.P.A.S. All rights reserved., Model Release: no, Credit line: Michael Baker / Avalon
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- Diane Warren at Taormina Film Festival,Image: 703766317, License: Rights-managed, Restrictions: , Model Release: no, Credit line: Maria Laura Antonelli / AGF Foto / Avalon
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- Diane Warren, red carpet for the movie Tell it like a woman,Image: 703768869, License: Rights-managed, Restrictions: , Model Release: no, Credit line: Maria Laura Antonelli / AGF Foto / Avalon
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- Hollywood, CA – The 94th Annual Academy Awards – Audience and Backstage. Will Smith is all smiles after THAT moment and tearing up during acceptance speech in which he apologized to everyone EXCEPT Chris Rock. Beyonce poses with Jay Z and Tyler Perry after changing into stunning yellow gown. Pictured: Jay-Z, Beyoncé and Tyler Perry BACKGRID USA 28 MARCH 2022 BYLINE MUST READ: The Grosby Group / BACKGRID USA: +1 310 798 9111 / usasales@backgrid.com UK: +44 208 344 2007 / uksales@backgrid.com *UK Clients – Pictures Containing Children Please Pixelate Face Prior To Publication*
She’s got a point. Beyonce is a great performer. A great producer. She is not a songwriter.
having 24 people credited with writing a song doesn’t dispute your point. It supports it in a way.
But DWs comment and the follow ons feels a bit like someone trying to get attention after not being in the spotlight for years.
Diane Warren is not really the trying to be in the spotlight type of figure, so i guess she was genuinely curious. The song writers credits are getting long and longer, could be due to so much sampling done these days.
There are some performers who will not do the songs unless they get “credit”. It could be even just changing or adding ONE WORD, or ONE NOTE, and BOOM! They are listed as a “writer”. This is how they also collect on publishing rights money, which is where the bucks are.
She was just in the spotlight about a year ago for rescuing one of the cows that escaped from a slaughterhouse in East LA. Before that, I hadn’t ever really heard of her. So I doubt this is her seeking limelight.
Although Diane is pointing out the truth, she wanted some attention.
Beyonce is not a songwriter but many wish that she was.
No one else remember when Beyonce tried to take credit for other people songwriting. Ne-yo was one of them
It’s in the the Celebrity archives.
Funny article.
Right around the time she was copying other people’s choreographs.
Allegedly
Money comes from being a credited song writer forever. I love seeing that she is giving credit. Some artists (with solo credit) pay people separately to help them write songs that become huge. They do not get any part of that money.
Yeah, I think Beyonce is just spreading the wealth to her collaborators.
And at this point, does Beyonce care about being a songwriter? She is easily one of the top 5 solo performers in the world. And it’s always people talking about art and songwriting that are the saltiest about her success and the team behind her that ensures it.
She was 1000% being shady and should have just leaned into it, instead of the mealy mouthed I was just asking questions and you’re being mean to me when called out on it. It’s the microaggressions to this stuff that annoys me, no one believes a person with her industry experience doesn’t understand samples. Also, I wish we would stop acting like singer/songwriters are automatically better artists than people who work with songwriters. Everyone has their talent, and this way everyone eats
I agree. There are many songwriters without the stage presence or public desire to perform and many performers who don’t write their own songs. If performers only sang their own songs, those songwriters would be out of a job.
Like Diane Warren herself with her 2021 album? Phenomenal songwriter, not a great singer, and no real stage presence. Doesn’t discount from what she’s good at, and other singers out here shouldn’t be throwing shots at her for not being great at it.
She’s also allowed to wonder about that, which is kind of a legitimate question, without being attacked and dragged by a legion of stans.
When you “wonder” about something on a public media page, you get responses. If she was just truly curious why not contact somebody on Beyonce’s team and inquire? I’m sure DW has contacts to ask.
I don’t understand this legitimate question point, if I random layman understand samples how can she not? Her work has definitely been sampled before and she has definitely been credited and paid because of it. Quite simply if I sample five seconds from a Queen song and 4 seconds from an Earth wind and fire song that I’m writing with my writing partner I’m crediting 17 people on it unless I want to be sued.
If it was a legitimate question, she would not have used the eyeroll emoji.
I agree. If Warren wants attention for slagging off Beyoncé she should just own it — face the fallout.
Shady question of my own: Could “I’m just curious.” be reasonably credited to Tucker Carlson? I’m just asking.
I’ll add though, that I think Maya Angelou could also get a credit. 💎
Yeah. A shady question and an eyeroll followed with a Bambi-eyed “I was just asking a question!” is a classic troll move. Which, whatever, have your opinion, but as others are saying, lean into it.
Alright, let me rephrase and redirect my comment after feedback: she is allowed to be shady about Beyonce’s multitude of songwriters credited without being told shes a racist for saying it.
I genuinely am not understanding why she wants to poke fun at people being credited.
As far as being a racist…I didn’t see any replies saying that, but her comment does show an ignorance of how sampling works in Black music and people were educating her.
Owlsyn it is racism and microagressions in play. Beyonce is using various samples in small increments to create a “new” song. That’s a skill and talent heavily steeped in Black musical culture. For this white woman to question that is her not understanding the multifaceted layers of this style of Black music. She even presented her shade as snark wrapped in condescension because she lacks the cultural knowledge to accept what Beyonce is doing.
For real, for those interested the Reddit Beyonce boards have great posts breaking down the musical progressions.
Your point is on point! songwriters also known as lyricists, music writers, and vocalists also known as singers need each other for the industry to work. There are very few entertainers talented enough to write the lyrics, the music and have a singing voice. They all compliment each other.
I agree. And it’s not a bad thing to give other people credit for the work they do.
That should be the standard!!!
You hear about so many people who “ghostwrite” books and songs and whatnot. Some get paid and others don’t. I don’t understand why it’s a bad thing for Beyonce to make sure everyone who contributed gets paid.
She was, which is why when The Dream (producer) responded to her and broke down the history of sampling in African American music and also let her know “you don’t want this heat.” she backed up and apologized.
I actually read some of this and while I am not going to be here on one post saying “She didn’t mean it like that” and on another post saying, “It doesn’t matter how she meant it”, I don’t think Warren was being racist in her shade. Snarky, yes. But I do get that her comment fails to recognize the history of using samples in music by black artists, and it’s ignorant and a bad take. I was wrong in my initial dismissal of the racial aspects of what she said.
As a side note, I went to Wikipedia to look at the credited writers of some of the Beyonce songs I like, and found out some really interesting things about the production process. So thank you everyone for pointing me towards knowledge.
Vanity 6’s Nasty Girl is being ripped off, hard.
Wow..definitely should have credited Prince.
Those who dare not respect Prince do so at their own peril.
Legit. The backing vocalist at the start even sounds like Prince.
Mind you she should also have credited Ru Paul because… some of these lyrics play heavily on the concept of Drag Race
That is not how this works. The intro in the song is actually a sample and rightly credited as such. Unless you wanna argue those artists stole from Prince. People should really read the history behind the credits in the million articles about it
I have been saying that RuPaul and the girls deserve their flowers because they were making this music for yearrrrrs. Ballroom culture in general is heavily present on this album. I really do like it and really want to see some visuals.
I saw a vid of diannne warren on a red carpet with Mariah Carey who looked like she picked her up and moved her out of the way. It was funny. Mariah was not having her in her space. She was being shady in her tweet about Beyoncé and should just own it rather than take back.
https://twitter.com/glittering_mc/status/1182745313146220544?s=21&t=8Npx1VZRgFIFFWrKujHfqg
Also heard some Right Said Fred, Too Sexy.
The writers of that song were credited.
The “Too Sexy” songwriters are actually credited if you read through the list of credits.
This was definitely rude, and kind of a bummer. Warren is so talented- the sheer number of/variety of artists she’s written for is staggering. She and Beyoncé occupy different realms. She’s entitled to her opinion but was definitely being shady. Her trying to backtrack makes me like her less, and I already wasn’t thrilled with her rudeness.
I was scrolling through the Dianne Warren song list that Kaiser linked to and funny enough, one of the artists that Warren wrote a song for was…Beyoncé! As you say, it seems like Warren was being shady, so be shady.
Beyoncé isn’t for me and that’s fine because I’m not the center of the universe. I can’t deny that she’s an extremely talented vocalist and a smart business woman. And she absolutely knows how to make a hit song. But the Beyoncé Industrial Complex makes me extremely nervous. She gets deified, but she’s a person and she should be allowed to be less than perfect. The expectation that she should be a songwriter too feels offsides to me because I see how for many Black women, it’s never good enough for some people.
My god, that list of song writing credits is mind boggling! And the who’s who list of artists who’ve recorded her music is beyond impressive. Right up there in Dolly Parton territory. Shame she got swarmed for a legit comment.
As a song writer she knows the singer should credit the song writer. She has been in the business long enough to know the legality of copyright. Her question was not legitimate, it was shady!
Both things can be true 🤷♀️
Diane Warren is impressive in her own right, and she was being shady with this comment as she is an industry professional and knows how this works.
It’s not a shame she got swarmed. It’s rightfully deserved when you try to “play dumb” for some likes and retweets. She didn’t get the reaction she wanted when other professionals broke it down for her. Let’s not make more excuses for white women.
Honestly I’m not a big Beyoncé fan but I don’t have a problem with her crediting as songwriters everyone that contributes to her career in any way. She is including them in the royalty stream and making sure they get rewarded for making her success.
This is a great way to look at it!
Not only that, she HAS to credit EVERYBODY now. Ever since the Blurred Lines ruling. So expect anyone whose song has been influenced by anyone else’s in the slightest to just preemptively offer up a credit and a fraction of a point in order to avoid costly, and quite frankly, unpredictable lawsuit rulings.
@ThatsNotOkay see also Ed Sheeran. How many lawsuits has he been subject to for not crediting “influential” works on his songs?
It just makes sense to CYA.
I give kudos to Beyonce’s legal team for her education on copyrights. If Beyonce didn’t give credit to the 24 people (according to @Kaiser she needs to add 2 more people) she will be accused of Plagiarism. Diane Warren knows this better than anyone else, it’s too bad she decided to be a troll rather than educate people on the legal minefield of crediting. I applaud Beyonce for giving credit where credit is due.
This. Like, people are mad at Beyonce for having some issues with this in the past, ok, but you’re mad she actually did what she was supposed to do?
I’ve Lemonade and Renaissance and I was happily reading the names of her contributors.
I agree. And, yes, this could have been — and still could be — an opportunity to educate people.
Kinda hard to absorb new information (education) while in a defensive crouch from being accused as a troll (who might have chosen an emoji that she saw as a questioning face, but other people interpreted as an eyeroll).
Sooo, since ppl have only accused me of being too stupid to understand what Diane Warren SHOULD HAVE DONE, please explain the difference between sampling and interpolation. Read somewhere (Complex?) that Beyoncé removed Kelis ‘Milkshake’ interpolation from Renaissance after Kelis spoke about thievery in the biz. Dunno, m/b Beyoncé being “shady.”
While waiting for someone to educate me about the difference between sampling and interpolation, I discovered a website ‘whosampled.com’ that defines interpolation as (replayed sample) of multiple elements. Huh? 🤨? Not sure what that emoji means.
This SO MUCH, Petra. In the weekend link post, people were calling her all kinds of names, hoping Kelis would sue her, because “supposedly” she didn’t credit Kelis (or she did but didn’t call her??!?!?). Now here’s a song where she credits people and people are calling her all kinds of names. She can’t win. Also, The Dream was right in his response to Diane: this “so many people on a track” discourse is heavily rooted in racism, but y’all ain’t ready for that conversation.
It is rooted in misogynoir. Kanye and Kendrick are called geniuses with copious amounts of sampling (which is a cornerstone of hip hop – contemporary music). Modern art is all about pastiche, & Beyonce is crediting her collaborators, so what is the problem exactly?
Well, there is a fantastic book about diminishing black women artists for not writing their own music, a charge also leveled at Ella Fitzgerald, Sarah Vaughn, Billie Holiday, Aretha Franklin & many of the most significant singers in American history. See Emily J. Lordie’s “Black Resonance.”
Like–other folks can contribute all they want to the song writing, and some of the contributions have been masterful–but they still have not quite–despite all the attempts–captured a *certain* quality gospel, the blues, and jazz PERFORMANCE.
Black people are hated everywhere, but even slave raping and owning Thomas Jefferson in “Notes On the State of Virginia,” admitted that there was something particular about the music and dance of the enslaved. Kpop and ALL pop music globally comes from this source.
Diane Warren has used musical forms created by black people to enrich herself (and others, some black) and she has created many beautiful songs. I bet she doesn’t even know why she felt compelled to diminish Beyonce.
I’ve vaguely known who she is and a few songs, but looking at her wiki page, my goodness. She absolutely has the authority to poke at this.
I guess the most appropriate response to this would be, See, @Onemoretime’s post above. It’s just about perfect. I would also point out that if Diane Warren wants to remind people of her long career, then she should rent a billboard and list all the songs she’s written. I quote Diane, “That’s 23 more than were on mine. (Wink!)” The best way to do it is not to squat down on someone else’s album debut, where they show proper attribution to co-writers and people whose works were sampled.
Yeah I think people just like to.dump on Beyonce because she’s a super talented Black woman who jas reached elite status in her career. The brilliance of the progression in chords, transitions, and lyrical sounds is multi-layer and she gives credit to each component. It’s why she gave credit to Kelis for a 10 second drum beat, but of course have credit to ALL song creators involved with the production of that sound. It’s astounding the length some will go just to be negative towards Beyonce. If she didn’t credit every single person, I would be “Beyonce is a thief. She stole xyz.”
I think people like to dump on Beyoncé because her fans are insane. Beyoncé is a super talented performer and has some catchy songs. But she’s not the goddess people think she is. She’s just a very talented woman. But her fans treat her like a god who can do no wrong and whom no one can say anything negative against. I think that’s why people poke at Beyoncé because they’re pointing out that she’s just as flawed as the rest of us.
Disagree. A lot of it is misogynoir. She’s held to some very intense and random arbitrary standards and the goalposts always move. Is she perfect? No. But even here you see comments about how she’s complicit with Pharrell’s exploitation of other artists and that negates everything she’s ever said about Black women, that her mistakes on this album show what a hypocrite she is because this album was supposed to be flawless in every moral way (a weird take), that her lyrics are trashy and too sexual. People take real issues that she may be involved with and exaggerate to an equally dramatic degree as some of her fans. The “Beyhive” is just an excuse for them imo.
There’s always going to be a cultural undercurrent that a Black woman shouldn’t have gotten as high as she’s gotten, so they’ve got to find ways to try to poke holes in it, whether they are legitimate or not (sometimes they are, sometimes not).
And I’ll say again, I looked at the replies and nobody threatened Warren or anything of the sort – if someone wants to correct me they can, but this isn’t like Nicki Minaj’s fans etc in this particular incident.
Just gonna say that Beyoncé has more than “some catchy songs.” Some might not like her music but give the artist her due. That comes across as real patronizing.
Leslie, being able to say Bey’s fans are just crazy is a lazy way to be dismissive of what they are trying to do. In this case, they noticed the microaggression and want it corrected. Using her fans as an excuse to not give Beyonce her due is asinine. As another commenter stated, the goalposts always move with Beyonce. She gives credit for each clip in her song and it’s “wow, she has no talent”, if she references other sounds, as a musical allusion, but only credits the main contributions she’s “stealing”. If she uses the most basic reference but doesn’t call the person she’s scum. Beyonce gets zero leeway and her fans check that behavior
C, you hit the nail on the head. There is a lot of anti-Black womanism going on when people vehemently place unrealistic expectations.
You said that Beyonce is not some goddess like some think she is; and explain that some “poke” at her because they want to point out that Beyonce is human like the rest of us. So, because of that you believe it’s okay to yank her chain, so to speak.
All I know is that some fans think Barbra Streisand is a goddess, certain fans are delirious about Cher, and let’s not even talk about Elvis Presley who’s been credited with being the “king” of genre of music neither he, nor his people, created. Granted, this was long before social media gave normal people the ability to voice their opinions about stars from their keyboards. But isn’t it just possible that Beyonce’s fans think that she is great, plus they also admire her for what she has accomplished with all the obstacles (and micro-aggresions) she’s had to deal with? Why do some people still feel the need to knock Beyonce down a few pegs? Trust me, even rabid fans already know Beyonce is human, just as Elvis’ fans know he’s really dead.
What is this kneejerk desire to remind people who defend WoC that said WoC “isn’t perfect”? Why do you think her supporters don’t know this already? Do you think only “perfect” people deserve to be supported (when it’s OBVIOUS someone was being shady and faux ignorant)?
What exactly do you get out of “reminding” people of something they already know??
Diane got what she deserved. Then she cried when the Dream explained to her why so many people are credited on the songs. It’s because Beyonce sampled a lot of other people’s music. I don’t know what it is about Beyonce that brings out the Karens every time.
BINGO !!!
Some of these comments about Beyonce are giving very anti-black.
I know right! It’s always Beyonce that people DESPERATELY need to come out of the woodwork to INSIST that she “doesn’t write her own songs”/”doesn’t arrange her own music”/”doesn’t play her own instruments”/”doesn’t do this”/”doesn’t do that”/”doesn’t do the other thing.”
My question is, WHY? Why do people feel the NEED to come out and say these things, only ever about Beyonce? Or ask these questions, only ever about Beyonce? It’s like freaking clockwork. It’s either this, or it’s insisting that while Beyonce may be good, she will never be AS good as [insert some other artist here].
It’s not easy being Beyonce. She has to fight hard than most perfomer/artist than most because she IS a woman and because she is a BLACK woman. Shit is hard. Diane has been in the business for decades and has given us great, great work. She sees how difficult it is for women in that industry, so to call it out and then LIE and say “Just curious” is sh*tty. She put it out there so she should own it. Or just don’t follow up with nonsense.
Diane Warren has written for Beyoncé! She wrote I Was Here for her. And it was one of the only songs (if not THE only song) Beyoncé has done since she became a megastar that had a sole writer credited: Diane Warren.
I’ve heard stories about this, Beyoncé demands a co-writing credit on songs that are given to her fully formed / written. She’ll change a word here or there or add some harmonies to manage it legally. The joke is that the one exception was Diane Warren because Diane Warren is an institution and even Beyoncé can’t bully her into sharing credits. LOL
I believe that Beyoncé has very discerning taste and is hyper-involved with the creation of her tracks; but she’s not a songwriter.
And I can totally understand why Diane backed down in this instance. The Beyhive is insane. They went HARD after Ne-Yo for disrespecting Beyoncé when he simply mused that it was hard for him to give up Irreplaceable as he wrote it for himself. Imagine how hard they likely came for Diane! Who has the energy to deal with crazy people like these? Just back away slowly and disengage. Which is exactly what she did.
Also, Diane may well have just been musing. She respects Bey a lot, as you can see from this article:
https://www.rollingstone.com/music/music-features/diane-warren-beyonce-cher-aerosmith-lady-gaga-1121141/amp/
Beyonce Twitter fans are often extreme but I looked at these replies and most of them were pointing out Warren’s ignorance of Black music and essentially telling her to stay in her lane, which is where she should be. She may be a good artist but she was acting like a Karen.
I don’t know but you appear to be a bit trigger happy on using the word “bully” here. And that “LOL” doesn’t soften it a bit.
Thanks for the link Snoozer.
Sounded to me like Diane Warren was just asking a legitimate question. But then I’m an oldster like 65-yr old Diane, so not totally attuned to the teardown needs of twitterati mobs.
Difference is that DW is actually in the music industry so could have found her answer outside of Twitter if she really had no clue. Somebody who produces music though should have had a clue.
@snoozer Did you read the article you posted? When Diane submitted the song to Simon Cowell he dragged his feet. Beyoncé agreed to do the song immediately and was willing to record the song under a very tight time constraint. Diane also talks about how Beyoncé would not stop doing takes until Diane was happy with the song. This does not sound like a bully to me.
See her w easily that person ran with an “angry Black woman” stereotype?
Also, from what I understand, it was Diane (along with Arista Records head, Clive Davis, who pushed her songs onto every Arista Records artist. It’s why you’d have a pop ballad on an RnB album. She made bank off Black artists performing her music when they didn’t want to or hated the song (Toni Braxton and Un-Break My Heart). If they pushed back, they’d have their record delayed.
A professional with decades of success and a huge catalogue asked an admittedly shady question. Why is the immediate reaction “She’s a troll, she needs to sit down, she knows better.” And people act like poor Bey needs help. Please.
This could be a discussion about how music is made today. Because while apparently most here knew immediately that it must be samples, I for one didn’t and would love to know more about how the sausage is made.
Late to the party but ^ THIS! Diane Warren is an icon and created plenty of unforgettable RnB moments. If this had been a snarky comment by a man with her credits it would have never had such a backlash.. Because she is female she is being lectured. I hope the fabulous Beyonce lectures the hive on kindness instead.
Yet you’re acting like poor Diane needs to help from Twitter (instead of Google, her agent, her lawyer, etc) to understand something that’s been around in the music industry since the 80s.
“Because she [Diane] is female, she’s being lectured”? So, it’s a lecture now? Beyoncé is a woman, yet her womanhood is never invoked to provide cover for her in the same way you’re choosing to do for Diane.
Men get called out everyday when they’re trying to be undermining/snarky about Beyoncé (or any female artist). But I guess that doesn’t fit the “Diane is being lectured to because she a woman” schtick…😒
Beyonce doesn’t write her songs. Diane Warren knows this and decided to “poke the hive’ , didn’t like the way they swarmed( they are INSANE) and tried to do a “what did I say?”. If you’re going to start stuff, be ready for the fallout or just you know, mind the business that pays you and keep it moving. Beyonce not writing is very old news.
Enough with the damn Beyhive. Do these people work? It’s like their only job is to attack anyone who dare mentions Beyonce’s name in a way they don’t like. It’s wierd, and kind of scary. It’s cool to be a super fan, but damn do you have nothing else to do???
No Stan’s have no life what so ever, there whole world revolves around the person they worship. Stans are mentally unstable people who are completely out of touch for reality.
We seen people like Nicki Minaj mobilize her stands to stock, harasses and send death threats to her husband‘s victim.
It’s creepy and scary. My God.
I don’t blame the Beyhive for coming for Diane Warren. People are so quick to be dismissive of Beyonce and her artistic creativity, always pointing to someone else next to her, never mind she’s the common denominator since she doesn’t work with the exact same people with each album. Many of the so called “real artists” have just as many people working with them on their albums, but their talent is almost never questioned the way people question Beyonce.
Diane Warren has been an incredibly successful songwriter for a long, long, time. Do you not think she might have received pretty unbearable pushing down, shoving aside, belittling, behaviour from a far more misogynistic crowd with an enormous amount of power and influence over her career? And she did it without the support of a tireless, vindictive, rabid “hive” to back her up? Why all the shade for a genuine, talented, experienced professional whose songbook and credits make her an important part of the history that paved the way for so many women in the business? I don’t think “she should have known better!” or even, “she KNEW better and was taking shots at Beyonce!”
I hear, “Pipe down old woman!” which is the last thing younger women need to be saying to older women whose experience and contributions should still be a source of pride for us all.
You are ignoring the racial aspect completely, which makes a huge difference.
And rudeness is never a good look, no matter the age.
“This wasn’t a shade” IT WAS, and I can taste the poison on it. I hate when people do that, at least own it.
Beyonce used to write a lot of the songs when she was in destinys child. I think she kinda stopped doing so once she became a solo artist but being as involved as she is in her music, im sure she adds things and deletes things and makes suggestions all of the time, so yeah, give her the writing credit. Her crediting all of these people is her way of ensuring that all of these people are able to get paid no matter how small their contribution was to the song. How about looking at it that way? when you’re as successful as she is and been around as long as she has, there are bound to be a ton of rumors and speculation about everything. Its easy to hate on her. Those who know better, know.
How could you add an eye roll emoji and say that the question was just curious and not shady?
Right??? That’s shady and then disingenuous, aka fake.
look, we all LOVE beyoncé. we do.
i don’t think diane was being shady at all (she’s written for b previously, in fact, for ‘i was here’, i believe).
i’m one of those people that’s also been wondering for years about her many cowriters – too many contributions to any work of art diffuses originality, especially when making something that’s meant to be so personal. it’s like, how much of the work is the artist? and how much is of the paid writers?
like others, i’m of the opinion that that may be partly why she lost the best album grammy for lemonade to adele, whose work was traditional, yes, but also stripped down, with far fewer collaborators, therefore *her* voice shone through that much more.
anyway, i’m no music expert. just giving my opinion as a consumer – WHO LOVES BEYONCÉ
btw, i do think beyoncé is creative, actually.
i know she’s supremely involved with her videos and tours – the creative direction of her visuals, etc. in recent years (since lemonade especially) her projects are loaded with meaning and powerful symbolism, concerning social issues.
i’m only just doubtful about the songwriting.
but hey, none of us can be good at everything, you know?
There’s a huge difference between “I’m wondering why Beyonce credited so many people on her song” and what was obviously a sarcastic comment with a sarcastic emoji.
Re your paragraph about too many contributions – please research sampling and its history of use in Black music.
And that is not why she didn’t win for Lemonade. We know why she didn’t, and Adele herself said so.
Beyoncé is performer for the masses. You’re never gonna hear a serious musician and/or songwriter say Beyoncé is their favorite musician because they know she doesn’t have the skills to arrange music or write amazing lyrics. Her career is the entertain and appeal to a large audience which she does well. She is marketed well and a very successful product of the music industry industrial complex. This is all well known, not sure the point of this tweet since we all know Beyoncé isn’t playing her own instruments or writing the songs herself and doesn’t claim to be.
have y’all seen what Ed Sheeran’s been going through lately? Beyonce is crediting and acknowledging every syllable of influence or remembered snip over the past 30-some years because the lawsuits will happen if she doesn’t. if that means 24 credits per song…. the woman’s mind must be like a data center. and also a thank you to those who have made the effort to explain the history of sampling and how that translates to credits.
Why is the loco beyhive still a thing? People need to get a life off of social
media.
celeb stans on the internet are one of the saddest things of the modern age.
we all have famous people we admire but like, how does anyone over the age of 15 have so much time to spend defending people who don’t even know you exist?
get a life.
people need to touch grass.
My husband used to be a studio musician at what was at the time a very prestigious music studio in L.A. He wrote a half dozen big hit songs that were credited to the band. He entered into a contract that paid him royalties for 25 years, which at the time seemed like an eternity. It’s not that unusual.
It’s natural to think that 27 writers on a song is a lot, but wouldn’t be surprised if it was a studio collaboration.
I’m ex-hive, but still have to data dump for those claiming that Beyonce doesn’t write songs, play instruments, or participate in the creative process.
Please watch some of the BTS vids or documentaries on youtube. Multiple instances showing her doing these things.
Even just springing to mind:
B writing the lyrics to “Heartbeat” after her publicized miscarriage.
B playing and singing “Die wit U” to J
BTS of The Gift showing B playing and singing Spirit
B talking about the inclusion of the Stevie Nicks guitar riff at the beginning of Bootylicious
B talking about how Survivor came into being following the questions as to whether Destiny’s Child could succeed past their first couple of hits.
Prince talking about how he was surprised at B’s knowledge of musical structure and modes
Prince talking about B playing the guitar.
B adding the increased modulation at the end of Countdown.
B talking about the percussive nature of the Run the World beat and why she chose it.
B querying use or particular snares and high hats.
OK, I’m done. Old habits die hard.
You went it, but it sheds light on the supposition of her contributions so thank you.
Diane knew what she was inferring to. That was unnecessary so she should own her aggressions!
Please, calm down.
It’s always a white woman with her two cents no one asked for shading Beyonce. I’ll never forget how shady quite a few were when she had her pregnancy photo shoot with the twins.
And of course, “not all”, I’m just saying whenever this happens with Beyonce, typicallyyyyy…
All the singers with multiple songwriters credited on one song and this was the branch she decided to reach for? Hmmmm.
Hearing about how Bey is super inclusive of collaboration and contribution must be extra frustrating for Kelis today
This was a twitter discussion about why there are credits on a song, not a piece by Beyonce about collaboration and contribution.
And even if the info was released later, Kelis is credited on the track, so, yeah.
Pharrell is responsible for that, not Beyonce.
Is it just me or does she look like Spock.
How does this beech not credit prince!!?
That is absolutely a rip off of prince.
I know nothing on songwriting, but that seems like a legitimate thing to wonder about, especially if you normally solo write songs. It might have been a bit snarky, but didn’t seem like a total diss either.
It sounds like the answer to this would be “We credited everyone we sampled from,” which, ok. That said, I did read something today where seven people were sampled on that 24-people track, leaving 17 people who presumably weren’t sampled, so…what were they doing?
The first thing I thought when I heard the intro was “A Little Bit Alexis”!!!
I mean…isn’t it a good thing that she credits all these people though? I don’t understand exactly what people want from Beyonce at this point?
If she doesn’t give appropriate credit, she’s criticized. If she goes out of her way to credit up to 72 people on a song, she’s criticized. What should she do exactly? I get the feeling that what people want is for her to write her own music, and then have that flop, so they can be like, “See, she’s not a song writer at all. She’s nothing if she doesn’t have someone else to write songs for her.” People are saying that anyway, but what people want is for her to have no help, no nothing, and then to flop, so they can talk endlessly about what a talentless hack she is. Which. Alrighty then. That’s something someone can certainly wish for, I guess.
Fwiw, I don’t think Beyonce ever really went out of her way to make anyone think she’s a songwriter in her own right. Even on Lemonade, it’s pretty clear that she wasn’t writing her own lyrics, and I don’t know why anyone thought she was. She’s come up with a few lines that are pretty well known (“Got me looking so crazy right now”, “I sneezed on the beat and the beat got sicker”, for two examples off the top of my head). But outside of that…who really thought she was writing her own stuff? Her talent is in finding stuff that speaks to her, and which resonates with her, that she can then work with and make into her own. Isn’t that what all creativity is?
I was, and always will remain, lost on the criticism that she gets. I’m not a part of the Beyhive, but like…come on. Kelis, at the very least, had something of a leg to stand on, I thought. She was credited, and Pharell might be the one who ripped her off, but Beyonce could have called her and Kelis would have likely asked Beyonce not to use the track bc it would line Pharell’s pockets and not Kelis’, which I feel is a legit grievance for Kelis to have. But this? Again, what exactly do people want from Beyonce, at this point?
I find the wider convo interesting to say the least. I enjoy Beyonce’s music but I’m def not a stan and I absolutely find the whole concept of “stanning” a little crazy. (Isn’t the origin from Eminem’s song re the guy who got so obsessed he killed himself, gf and unborn child? Why is that something we’ve adopted as admirable?) Anyways, all that aside, Diane was definitely being shady and then called someone who challenged her firmly but politely “mean”. Anyways, what’s really interesting to me is people going hard at the Beyhive and calling them unhinged. Are there extremists? Yes, as with any other group that exists. As for racial elements, I hardly see persons calling “the monsters” (Gaga) or other such groups unhinged. Hell, even the really crazy ones that follow actors and hate any woman they’re with (esp if they’re black), hardly get called out for their general toxicity but the group supporting the black woman does… All the time… Things that make you go “hmmmm”