Nicholl: Prince Harry wanted to get a mediator to ‘sort things out’ with Charles

This is Part 2 of our coverage of Katie Nicholl’s The New Royals. Part of Nicholl’s new book was excerpted in Vanity Fair’s October issue, although this excerpt seems to have been furiously rewritten the second Queen Elizabeth II passed away. In Part 2 of my coverage, Nicholl discusses the Sussexit and how it’s screwed up Prince William’s plans to lean on his younger brother forever. I don’t doubt it – the royal establishment has made it perfectly clear that Harry falling in love with a beautiful American woman and leaving his toxic f–king family was never part of their plan. In fact, their plan seemed to be “Harry needs to stay single forever, to support William.” Nicholl also casually suggests that the Duchess of Sussex really should have stuck around so she could be diversity set dressing for the monarchy, even if they treated her like sh-t from the word go. Maybe if Meghan was super-important to the monarchy, they could have treated her well? I guess not. Some more highlights from VF’s excerpt:

The Sussexes probably would have done a better Caribbean tour: Had Harry, who had been assigned a prominent role as a Commonwealth ambassador on the queen’s behalf, been on the tour with Meghan, the optics might have played out differently. Sadly, the significant role Harry and Meghan were expected to play in the life of the Commonwealth—their interracial marriage emblematic of equality, diversity, and unity—was lost when they left. The royal family is an institution based on white inherited privilege. Its future lies in the hands of three white men, and that is a fundamental problem in a diverse country such as Britain and across the countries of the Commonwealth too. Meghan played a huge part in relieving some of this tension; the loss of all she represents as a biracial woman in the royal family, as well as her energy and talent, has had a real impact.

The Third Way: Harry and Meghan press ahead with what some have called a “third way” of being royals, capitalizing on their new lives in America, their glamorous and richly endowed alternative court is a contrast to the House of Windsor. It remains to be seen whether they will ever reconcile with their family.

Harry & Meghan’s stop in Windsor before the Invictus Games: Some progress was made, however, when Harry and Meghan stopped off in Britain on their way to The Hague. Charles insisted on meeting Harry and Meghan before their audience with the queen. According to one insider, he wanted to make sure Harry wouldn’t be able to sweet-talk her the way Andrew had and get her to agree to anything without Charles’s say-so.

The meeting with Charles & Camilla: The meeting with Charles and Camilla was more awkward than their cordial tea with the queen. The Sussexes were late, and Charles had just 15 minutes with his son and daughter-in-law before he had to leave for the Royal Maundy Service at Windsor Castle, where he was standing in for the queen for the very first time. While father and son are said to have greeted each other warmly, there were moments of tension. “Harry went in with hugs and the best of intentions and said he wanted to clear the air,” according to a family friend. “He actually suggested that they use a mediator to try and sort things out, which had Charles somewhat bemused and Camilla spluttering into her tea. She told Harry it was ridiculous and that they were a family and would sort it out between themselves.”

William’s ass still hurts about the Sussexit: For Charles and William, the situation with the Sussexes hasn’t just been hurtful and upsetting on a personal level. There have been real repercussions, particularly for William, whose young family has been thrust into the spotlight prematurely. He always expected Harry would be his wingman; there was a long-term plan in place for the brothers to work together and support one another. After Harry announced their departure, William summoned aides to address the future, in what has been referred to by some in William’s circle as the “Anmer Summit.” But William and Kate also felt a sense of relief, that “the drama was gone” when Harry and Meghan left, as a source told me. To this day, William still cannot forgive his brother.

Harry’s big shadow: The brothers’ estrangement also threatens to cast a shadow over Charles’s reign and possibly William’s. Charles knows his public reputation could suffer if he is seen to be turning his back on his youngest son. The queen, who was deeply hurt by Harry’s decision to leave his family and the country, nonetheless ensured the door was always open for her grandson and his wife and children to return. For now Frogmore House is still theirs.

Charles will continue to try to heal the rift: Those close to Charles say he won’t stop trying to heal the rift with his son, as he made sure Harry and Meghan were by the family’s side at the queen’s funeral. “He is hurt and disappointed but he has always said his love for Harry is unconditional,” says a friend, adding that Charles also wants to have a role as a grandparent to Archie and Lilibet.

Archie & Lilibet’s titles: We know titles matter to Charles, and he reportedly wants to limit them to the top tier of royals. He is also reportedly reluctant for his brother Prince Edward to take the title Duke of Edinburgh, even though it was their late father’s wish. So what is he considering in relation to his family so far overseas yet still intent on leveraging their royal links? Would Charles go as far as barring Archie and Lilibet from becoming a prince and a princess now that the Sussexes are no longer working royals? According to a source close to the king, “it depends a lot on what happens in the coming months, particularly with Harry’s book and their TV show.”

William & Harry’s strained relationship: There is still coolness between William and Harry—and on William’s part, a serious lack of trust. I asked a senior aide who has been close to William and Harry for decades what he thought about the brothers’ falling out and the prospect of two rival courts, the Sussexes and the Waleses. He offered a far more optimistic answer than some: “Actually, the more you see about how the Sussexes are approaching these things, it is much more Californian, much closer aligned to activism and celebrity than it is to royalty. The point about royalty is it’s the only institution that links together civic society, the philanthropic world, and establishment.” That person added, “The Sussexes know they’re not able to compare to them. The key point is that they’re not even trying. What they are doing is making a difference in their politico-philanthropic world, and that’s great.”

[From Vanity Fair]

The fundamental miscalculation of all of the British commentators and biographers is assuming that the Duke and Duchess of Sussex are in any way eager to reconcile or return to the UK or be back in the fold in any way. All of the commentary is predicated on that falsehood, that if this or that happens, suddenly Harry would come back, that he secretly wants nothing more than to dump his wife and children in America and come running back. Nicholl makes the same mistake as everyone else, acting as if everything is fundamentally William’s call or Charles’s call. The fact that the king and the Prince of Wales are basically supporting players to Prince Harry’s super-stardom has thrown everything into disarray. I’m also curious if Nicholl will even bother trying to present anything from the Sussexes’ side, like why they left in the first place, or how Meghan and Harry’s statements in the Oprah interview are verifiable.

Also: “There have been real repercussions, particularly for William, whose young family has been thrust into the spotlight prematurely. He always expected Harry would be his wingman; there was a long-term plan in place for the brothers to work together and support one another.” Again, the “long-term plan” was that Harry would never marry and William would take credit for Harry’s work and Harry would stay silent as William threw Harry to the wolves to cover up his affairs.

Oh, and I think Harry’s idea about getting a neutral third-party mediator is really great? It’s clear that the family is toxic as f–k and they all need a great deal of therapy. Why not? If Charles actually wants to have a relationship with his son and grandchildren, he might want to consider it. It’s also fascinating because Harry has not leaked one single thing about his conversations with his father, per Charles’s explicit request. Meanwhile, Charles has been openly leaking against Harry for months now.

Photos courtesy of Avalon Red, Cover Images.

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176 Responses to “Nicholl: Prince Harry wanted to get a mediator to ‘sort things out’ with Charles”

  1. The Old Chick says:

    Oh ffs he does not! It’s those trashy reporters who dream that.. Where do these delusions come from? Rota trash

    • Barrett says:

      I don’t agree that they never wanted Harry to get married. They wanted him to marry an aristocratic white girl who just went along w things while Harry remained the wingman who rolled out his own kids for cute PR at events. Oh isn’t Harry charismatic, funny out here to buffer …

      Oh cringe that Caribbean tour!!! Cringe

      • Beach Dreams says:

        Yup, they wanted someone like Cressida; she checked off all the right boxes, more so than Kate since she’s actually aristocratic. I’m sure the monarchy was disappointed when Harry dumped her. Ingrid Seward (close friend of Cressida’s mother) certainly made her own disappointment known with that embarrassing editor’s letter.

      • bananapanda says:

        I agree. They were semi happy to roll out the Fab 4 when they had a Foundation together but W/K suddenly realized that H/M actually did want to work and finish projects, etc. Then Meghan the American Bully stories started coming out.

        Honestly, if Charles had sat down and said “what do you H/M want to do? Ok, run with that.” then issued a statement saying “Meghan is a beloved and valued member of the Royal Family (knock it off!)” none of this would have happened! There were even stories about Charles and Doria getting along and him asking about her counseling work (Master’s in Social Work, I think).

        But Will is too vain to let all this occur.

    • Lucy says:

      Manipulative ppl constantly give loyalty tests. “If you really loved me, you’d know my hamburger order without me saying it. If you really loved me, you’d cancel your book. If you ever loved me, you’d come back, you know everyone is just jealous of how great we are together.”

      In this case, I think it is the family and the press together who are the delusional manipulators. And once you walk away from ppl like that, they lose their shit.

      Harry and Meghan did more than enough to pass loyalty tests, and now they’ve walked away, and everyone will be forever mad about it. They’ll keep bringing it up endlessly, they can’t help it. These ppl choose themselves over the manipulators, which means they never really loved the manipulators (to their minds). That’s why the obsession, they have to prove that it’s H&M, definitely not them.

      This did make me think, though, how would a king see a therapist? It would be a security risk, right?

      • Sass says:

        +1 to everything you’ve said, I was raised in a toxic family and so was my husband and we’ve been more or less making our life together without them.

        I do want to reply to your comment about therapy, in that yes the risk is there, but IIRC Elizabeth’s own father the king had to take speech therapy to overcome his stuttering, which was a huge BRF secret.

      • jjva says:

        Damn, Lucy, that is insightful. My ex-husband was that way all the time. “I thought you loved me! If you loved me you’d do this thing you hate!” / “I thought you were on my side! You’re supposed to [do thing you hate] if you’re really on my team!”

        Light bulbs just went off in my head. Loyalty tests.

    • anne says:

      “Nicholl makes the same mistake as everyone else, acting as if everything is fundamentally William’s call or Charles’s call. ”

      THIS 100,000%. It’s HARRY’S call as to whether he comes back and he already made it when he and Meghan said “smell ya later” and move to the U.S.

      I don’ t know if Nicholl is being purposely obtuse, or she’s just spewing her usual nonsense. But I do wonder if Charles/William really understand that they no longer have power over Harry or if they’re just pretending so they can leak smears to the rota. Either way, they are never ever ever getting back together with the Sussexes.

      • Dutch says:

        It slays me that these reporters forget that in Charles’ slimmed down monarchy plan — which he discussed often — that there would be no official role for Harry during his father’s reign. Harry didn’t leave on a whim, he found out he was going to be let go from The Firm so he decided not to wait around for that to happen. Yet Harry and Megan are villains because they didn’t leave on Charles’ schedule and the RR is playing coulda, woulda, shoulda games about things that just weren’t top happen. The whole point of the Caribbean Flop Tour was to introduce Buttons and Pegs to world stage as future King and Queen. Had Harry been still a working royal, there no way in hell he would have been on that tour.

      • Anna says:

        That’s the song Harry hopefully has as his “waiting for a connection” sound when Chucky or Cain call!

    • PrincessK says:

      Well, either Charles or Camilla must have passed this on by the way it has been reported. Pure evidence of how things get leaked to the media, and people will still have the temerity to blame the Sussexes.

  2. Lady Esther says:

    I agree that the idea of a mediator is a good one in theory, but I can’t help but think of that scene in “Succession” where they got a mediator for Logan Roy and the kids…hope it ends better is all I’m going to say 🙂

    • Duchcheese says:

      This right here tells you that none of what Nicholes says went down ever really happened. Everything she writes is either fanfiction or things that she literally plagiarizes from movies or other books. If they had only 15 minutes with each other, there was no way Harry had any time to suggest mediators etc. And all the “Harry came in with open arms and hugs but Charles just looked at him bemused and Camilla said it’s ridiculous blah blah blah” is again Nicholes trying to reinforce the narrative that Harry is the desperate one that is dying to repair this rift at any cost. Harry is the one that is desperately trying to get back in his father’s good graces so he can be allowed back in the firm, even if that means Meghan self-harms, Harry doesn’t care about any of that, he just wants “his family” to love him again. Nicholes is a very sick individual.
      And the obsession with Harry’s memoir and Meghan podcast just to please the monarchy is very amusing to me. No one on that island (among the BRF, BM, RR and their sycophants) seems to know how to move on from the memoir and the podcast. Everyone is just hellbent on trying to beg, bully into, convince, cajole, nag and whine to the Sussexes to abandon the publication of the memoir or Meg cancel her archetypes podcast. Makes you wonder if anything ever gets done nowadays since every one of them is just obsessing over the Sussexes and their business, my goodness🙄🙄

      • Lemons says:

        Maybe it happened, maybe it didn’t. But what’s interesting to me is the notion (from Charles and Camilla) that mediation is silly. But I don’t think the “younger” generation would feel that way at all. A that are pro-mediation, pro-therapy, and pro-mental health are not THAT young.

        I don’t know if Nicholl is trying to make C&C look good here, but this reaction is not going to resonate with most of us. The toxics among us, maybe. But the rest of us are trying to do better to take care of our mental.

    • Bananarama says:

      @Lady Esther You really gathered me together with this take, what a salient comparison.

      I wasn’t sure how I felt about the mediation idea but now I am lol

  3. ThatsNotOkay says:

    Charles aged 20 years over the last week.

    Harry’s alleged suggestion of a mediator is smart, but Charles and Camilla wouldn’t think of it, because that would mean private info might be heard by someone outside of the family–a professional sworn to secrecy. Unlike, say, all the evil courtiers, maids, staff, and men in grey who leak like elderly prostates and post-pregnancy bladders.

    • TigerMcQueen says:

      They keep bleating about how worried they are that private info will be spilled while leaking private info. It’s insane.

      • ArtHistorian says:

        It is actually really insidious and sinister. They leak like sieves while the Sussexes remain relatively silent – but they have established a narrative with the co-operation of the British press that it is the other way round. It is pure propaganda: the Sussexes talk about private stuff in public (which they have in interviews) while the “real” royals remain silent. That is the superficial image because the royals get their information out through their staff posing as anonymous sources.

        People who don’t follow the BRF closely and know how they operate won’t know that the Palaces leaks like sieves, that this is the way that the BRF operates. They just see Meghan and Harry giving interviews – while the British press keep saying they speak more than they do and no public comments from the BRF.

    • Tessa says:

      Why would Camilla have to be involved this would be between harry and Charles

    • Eleonor says:

      The mediator is a good idea.
      I don’t see anyone in the firm accepting it.
      Even if they are in desperate need of therapy.
      All of them.


      Having a mediator would mean that EACH side would have to face how their actions influenced the reactions of the other. Harry and Meghan had little to fear from this arrangement since they have always spoken for themselves instead of leaking to tabloids. The RF, on the other hand, would fare very badly when all their backdoor dodgy schemes are revealed.

  4. Snuffles says:

    “He is hurt and disappointed but he has always said his love for Harry is unconditional,”

    Unconditional? Really?

    “Would Charles go as far as barring Archie and Lilibet from becoming a prince and a princess now that the Sussexes are no longer working royals? According to a source close to the king, “it depends a lot on what happens in the coming months, particularly with Harry’s book and their TV show.”

    Sounds conditional to me!

  5. Tessa says:

    Why would William have to thrust his children into the limelight prematurely under any circumstances

    • Dee says:

      The “Think of the Children!” defense is the way for those two. Can’t work, can’t commit to charities, must go by helicopter, must have another house, because the “kids” and don’t you forget that.

      • Becks1 says:

        Remember the line from the Tatler article, about how W&K felt H&M leaving essentially threw their kids under a bus, which never made any sense and still doesn’t, but I think its the best way for the Wales’ to try to get public sympathy. “think of the children” defense indeed.

      • Beach Dreams says:

        I actually think it does make sense when you consider how often they’re bringing out the children now vs. 2018 and earlier. Part of it is definitely to keep William’s indiscretions private, but I think they wouldn’t be showing the kids as much if Harry and Meghan were still there for them to hide behind. I think Will and Kate expected to use Harry and Meghan as shields for themselves AND their children indefinitely, but they can’t do that anymore, hence their anger.

      • Christine says:

        It makes a lot of sense, given the context that Willnot (and Kitty, by proxy) got out of actually maturing into a fully grown humans, and hid behind the veil of Diana dying. He doesn’t grasp that Harry lived the same hellscape existence after their mother died, and he was younger than Willnot. See also: Two tours of duty during a war, on the front line.

        His only defense of his life so far is his, admittedly, huge and traumatizing, teenage trauma of losing his Mom, who had been forced into a royal marriage when she was a teenager. But Harry is right there, proving that you can be a big boy, if you actually care about anything, other than yourself.

    • Mooney says:

      Now they’ve lost their “sick old frail grandmother” and “very old grandfather” card, it’s now children. Remember keens tatler article how they’re thrown under the bus because they can’t do the school runs anymore?

    • Nic919 says:

      Charles and Diana were prince and princess of Wales with young children and managed to do hundreds of engagements each per year. There is absolutely no reason that William and Kate can’t do that same level of work without dragging out their kids. They are just too lazy.

      At no time were there discussions that Andrew needed to help them out.

  6. MsIam says:

    All hail the House of Toxic, err Windsor! I guess the good thing Katie No-Nothing seems to imply is that there won’t be a role for the Sussexes in Charles’ Coronation so no need for them to come back. Unfortunately, there will be lots of commentary about how “Harry must miss the pageantry!” but after that toxic sh*t show of a funeral I can’t imagine him feeling that way. I hope the Sussexes go on a fabulous vacation during that time.

    • Miranda says:

      A fabulous vacation to one of the former (or soon-to-be former) Commonwealth countries would be just… *chef’s kiss*

    • Christine says:

      I keep wondering if these delusional creatures took even one look at Harry’s face, since the queen died. There is not one part of that man that wants back in this shit show.

    • SenseOfTheAbsurd says:

      Why on earth would anybody miss the pageantry? Standing around in total boredom whilst ridiculous people strut around in absurd costumes. Rather eat my own toenails.

  7. Moderatelywealthy says:

    “He actually suggested that they use a mediator to try and sort things out, which had Charles somewhat bemused and Camilla spluttering into her tea. She told Harry it was ridiculous and that they were a family and would sort it out between themselves.”

    Fascinating, Camila is the one who gets to decide Harry´s sugestion is ridiculous. But wiat a second, is this family not called THE FIRM?

    It is very funny Camila, Chaz and the others are the oens dictating when they are a family and when they are a firm. Harry sugestion has all the merits if you see how this family behaves like a company.

  8. Bunny says:

    You wrote:
    “.. the royal establishment has made it perfectly clear that Harry falling in love with a beautiful American woman and leaving his toxic f–king family was never part of their plan.”

    That’s the problem. They’re not family. Family wouldn’t flip out if their adult son left to get married, have children, buy a home, and get a job. The institution of the BRF is rotten to the core. Rather than address the rot because they’re family, they do their best to perpetrate it.

  9. Jay says:

    Camilla and Charles “spluttering” at the mere suggestion of mediation kind of tells us everything we needed to know about this toxic family’s attitude to seeking help. Isn’t that what most families (and most firms, I would think) would do? The mediator suggestion seems perfectly reasonable to me, but it would require all parties to actually want to work things out.

    The Windsors are so deluded they think Harry will “come back to the fold”, leaving his beloved wife and family behind. Ridiculous.

    • BothSidesNow says:

      @ Jay, not only that but this statement sent shivers down my spine. Regarding the visit on the way to the IG, this was the law that Charles laid out; “According to one insider, he wanted to make sure Harry wouldn’t be able to sweet-talk her the way Andrew had and get her to agree to anything without Charles’s say-so.”

      Apparently Charles still carries an enormous chip on his shoulder with his relationship with his own mother that he was able to see how much his mother adored her grandson and DIL and he simply can’t stand it.

  10. Rapunzel says:

    “There have been real repercussions, particularly for William, whose young family has been thrust into the spotlight prematurely. He always expected Harry would be his wingman; there was a long-term plan in place for the brothers to work together and support one another.”

    Translation: William and Kate have been forced to work because Harry and Meghan peaced out. Or, more accurately put, William and Kate have been forced to use their kids for press distraction from their lack of work, all because the Sussexes are gone. Harry was supposed to stick around and serve as lightning rod for the Cambs to hide their lazinesss from press eyes. With them gone, the Cambridges have new expectations thrust on them that they can’t meet and their ineptitude is nearly impossible to hide without sacrificing their children to the prying eyes of the world.

    • ArtHistorian says:

      W and K haven’t been forced to put their children in the spotlight. That’s what they’ve chosen to do instead of just getting to work. They’d rather use their children as PR shields instead of working more. They are so fucking selfish and lazy.

      • Rapunzel says:

        I meant forced by the invisible contract to keep the media satisfied and at bay.

      • BothSidesNow says:

        Yes, H&M are forcing the Wails of putting their children into the firing squad, that is simply an additional tactic to blame H&M for what they are doing to their own children.

        Though, the hostile atmosphere of their children having to listen to their parents constantly going at each other’s throats on a constant basis isn’t harming them?? Or the fact that their parents are using them as PR shield’s simply for the benefit of their laziness as well as crumbling marriage??

  11. Becks1 says:

    the idea of a mediator is a great one and makes perfect sense for this situation, but I can see why Charles and Camilla were not on board. Sometimes a third party can be super helpful but I can also see a super formal couple in their 70s thinking it sounds a little too “new age-y” or too close to therapy or something, and I don’t see C&C being on board with that.

    As for this line:
    ” there was a long-term plan in place for the brothers to work together and support one another.”

    There was no long term plan for the brothers to work together and support one another. There was a long term plan for Harry to be william’s scapegoat for the next 50 years. There was nothing mutual about the arrangement.

    And no, Harry and Meghan stepping back has nothing to do with W&K trotting their children out constantly now, except to the extent that the RRs may be demanding it and W&K have to comply bc they don’t have any Sussex dirt to give them. But unless Nicholl is another one openly discussing the “invisible contract,” then there is no reason for George et al to be “thrust into the spotlight prematurely” at 9 and 7 and 4 bc their uncle and aunt stepped back.

    • Becks1 says:

      also, I do agree with Nicholl that the Caribbean tour would have been very different if it had been H&M. do I think countries that want to be republics would meet Harry and Meghan and say “nah, we’re going to stay with the monarchy” as a result? eh, probably not. But they might not have fired them in front of cameras, you know?

      And H&M would not have treated the trip like a vacation, would not have spent a private day scuba diving, would not have stayed in their exclusive penthouse suite and ordered “crack babies” every night. Meghan also never would have worn that horrible Holiday Barbie dress.

      So yeah it would have been different.

      • Lady D says:

        Don’t forget showing up to greet the Jamaican prime minister wearing the political opposition’s colours.

      • MF says:

        Harry and Meghan would have interacted with the Caribbean dignitaries as equals rather than like a bunch of colonizers surveilling their property, which is what Will and Kate did.

      • Concern Fae says:

        I can see them taking a vacation day, but they would choose someplace doing something cool and eco friendly or job training and then do a media event about the place the next day.

      • sunny says:

        It would have been different simply by virtue of them not feeling discomfort around black people. Truly, that would have set it apart. Even pre-Meghan, Harry was much better at connecting with POCs and never looked uncomfortable around black people.

        Also, the monarchy still would have been dumped but probably not on camera and probably a few months after the trip instead of being told deuces to the face.

        God, the Windors are dumb. I mean, seriously, has there ever been more pressure put on a spare? How unfit is William that they were counting so much on Harry?

    • Tessa says:

      It is not Camilla who should call the shots it is between Charles and harry

      • Becks1 says:

        I know Tessa, you’ve said that three times now.

        According to this story, Camilla made the comment because she was at the meeting with them, since they were on their way to church service. And this version also says that Charles was not on board with the idea either, so I don’t think it was all about Camilla calling the shots.

      • Tessa says:

        She laughed at it she should have discretely left them alone to sort it out it would have been tactful William does the same thing she does

    • Eurydice says:

      I have to disagree. You can’t go into mediation with a King – he’s the top dog, the Godfather. He’s the final say-so, the one who lays down the law between warring factions. And, if you consider Harry and William as warring factions, then it seems Charles has already done that – Harry’s in California and Will is POW. Will got his way, but he has to do it without Harry.

      In today’s world of the monarchy, the only power higher than the King is public opinion. That’s why we saw Charles back down on the issue of Harry’s uniform. But public opinion has been manipulated by the Firm and the media. If, somehow, H&M’s popularity increases in the UK, then we might see some push for reconciliation, but the Firm will fight tooth and nail to prevent it.

      • Becks1 says:

        That works for the Firm, and Harry’s not negotiating with the Firm anymore. Even Camilla’s supposed response – this is family, we’ll work it out together – indicates that this is about family and not the Firm. Harry’s done with the Firm and I think everyone knows it except the desperate RRs.

        And charles was not the king at that point and the Queen was fine with Harry and Meghan, so her being the “top dog” didn’t count for a whole lot where the “warring factions” were concerned. Even the lunch before the Sandringham Summit was meant to show that they were a family first, Firm second.

        Do I think mediation would have been successful? No, because I think Charles would never sit down with anyone who would ever tell him he might have been possibly wrong. And I think that’s true across the board for him in life and I think it’s going to be a problem for his reign.

      • Eurydice says:

        @Becks1 – I don’t think the Queen was really in control for the last few years of her life – see the stripping of Andrew, and even then he was stripped after he became a public liability to the Firm. And “this is family” is a flat out lie because the choice between Firm and Family is always what’s best for the Firm, regardless of what they want to show to the public. We’ve seen this to be true from well before H&M, we’ll see it again now that Andrew is no longer under TQ’s cover, and we may see it later with the New Diana.

  12. Bunny says:

    I’d like to nominate Rose Hanbury as the mediator. She seems to be levelheaded, and she clearly cares deeply about the monarchy.

  13. FancyPants says:

    “He reportedly wants to limit them to the top tier of royals” uhhhh Harry is the KING’S SON it doesn’t get any more TOP TIER than that! And if they’re gonna pick and choose, just strip everybody’s title and toss them all out on the street like the true “welfare queens” they really are. Let them all try to work for a living like Duchess Meghan, it will be hilarious.

    • Becks1 says:

      Its also funny to compare that to the other excerpt about Charlotte and Louis not being full time royals.

      the thing with the letters patent of 1917 and the George (V? VI?) convention is that at least it was pretty black and white, right? Grandchildren in the male line of the monarch, oldest son of the oldest son of the prince of wales are HRH. By changing it for W&K’s kids (which made sense at the time) just confused the whole situation, along with forbidding H&M to use “HRH” when other royals do use HRH for non-royal work (cough Princess Michael cough.) And now all the song and dance around Archie and Lili. In many ways they would have been better off just sticking with the convention and not changing anything. The other solution would have been to issue a new letter patent in 2013 that removed HRH going forward from everyone except the heir (so Harry got to keep his HRH, but his children would never be entitled to it, nor would any of William’s younger children.)

      Instead its become a mess.

      • FancyPants says:

        And Lady Louise and the Viscount Severn, too… They were never “stripped” of anything, I think they just had to choice to use HRH Prince/Princess or not. The whole mess is an unforced error to the point that even the Daily Mail was looking somewhat sympathetic toward the Sussexes during the funeral hoopla. You are right about the potential 2013 action- that is similar to what the Danish and Swedish royal families have done.

    • Where'sMyTiara says:

      “Let them all try to work for a living like Duchess Meghan, it will be hilarious.”

      OMG FancyPants, can you imagine? I think it would look like something between The Office (UK edition) and It’s A Royal Knockout.

      Sophie headed back to her old job… it’d be worth the popcorn popped just to see it.

  14. W says:

    Katie Nicholl is the same person that invented the lie that Harry had a crush on Meghan 2 years before he actually met her. Harry flat out denied that in the engagement interview and said he’d never even heard of Suits. She also invented the lie about Meghan raising Archie as gender neutral so it’s best we ignore her ramblings. Her sources are the voices from her head

  15. Ginger says:

    Katie Nicholl is known to be ridiculous. I remember when she wrote that article that said Harry and Meghan were going to raise their child gender neutral and all of the hate and death threats H&M received because of that. This women knows nothing and I am surprised she still has a job. She is known to be a liar.

    • taris says:

      lol i remember that bizarre “scoop” from katie!

      she wishes she could have access to harry and meghan (as all royal reporters do), and she’s certainly biased towards the windsors, but i appreciate that she’s not nasty towards the sussexes.

      • Agreatreckoning says:

        Nicholl was complicit in the smear campaign too. She just tried to be more sly about. Remember the bizarre egg story and the Queen supposedly scolding Meghan that came out days before Archie was born. That story is easily debunked. Nicholl claimed that BP catered the wedding reception. They didn’t. Clare Smythe did. The BP team did the luncheon that included a panacotta with quail egg.

        We know for sure that Harvey Weinstein won’t be hosting a cocktail party for this book launch and Ghislaine Maxwell won’t be a guest like the one for Nicholl’s William and Harry book. Nicholl can still include P$ss Morgan on her guest list.

        The pictures of Nicholl arm in arm with Weinstein and Morgan are something.

  16. Noor says:

    Mission Impossible !!. The trouble is no one tells King Charles the truth about what actually happen between Prince William and Kate vis a vis Prince Harry and Meghan. Not the courtiers, not the media. Things are glossed over and the pretense is things fall apart after the Oprah interview.

    The suggestion that Meghan is to be the token diversity is obnoxious.

  17. Sugar Plum says:

    I’m a bit weirded out now because I actually had this thought this morning – that the BRF members should try talking to each other through a mediator and see if that might help all of them communicate better. At some point this cycle of dysfunction has to be broken, if only for the sake of the future humans who are going to be born into the family through no fault of their own! Certainly, the mental health of the Sussexes would be the better for it. Disappointing but not surprising that a suggestion like this would not be countenanced by the very people who need it most. May this hasten their downfall is all I can say.

    • ArtHistorian says:

      Hating their relatives have been this family’s brand for 2 centuries. The Windsors descend directly from the House of Hannover (they simply changed names a few times) – and the Hannovers were famous for hating their parents, their siblings and their children.

      • Concern Fae says:

        More like a millennia. Watch The Lion in Winter sometime. Or any of the many works about the Tudors or the War of the Roses.

  18. PaperclipNumber99 says:

    “…Camilla spluttering into her tea. She told Harry it was ridiculous and that they were a family and would sort it out between themselves.”


    She’s no family of his.

    She can go to hell.

    • MsIam says:

      “Camilla spluttering into her tea. She told Harry it was ridiculous and that they were a family and would sort it out between themselves”

      Well this past week showed how this “family” operates so Camilla needs to keep her pie hole shut. The Windsors are so poisonous, they bleat on and on about reconciliation publicly, but privately are cruel as hell.

    • Shawna says:

      We knew they would start telling on themselves in advance of Perry’s memoir! Here’s a reason why Harry might not like Camilla. Thanks for the tea, Katie!

      • Ag says:

        Oops-I think you meant Harry’s memoir. Speaking of Perry though, Tyler Perry is scheduled to be on Jimmy Fallon tomorrow night.

    • Sass says:

      When I read that comment I rolled my eyes because it reminded me so much of my grandfather’s third wife, who made it a point to insist we would never refer to her as anything but her first name (we were children) and only called us “family” when it suited HER agenda. The only time I know she ever referred to herself as my grandmother was when she came to my college campus and tried to harangue my art history professor into telling her where I was. That and the time I was getting married and she tried to convince me to get corsages for all the “mother FIGURES” and I responded “it’s a wedding with 50 people, they all know who our mothers and grandmothers are.” The point I made without speaking: that doesn’t include you. 🤣

      • Deering24 says:

        Yeesh. There are few things more awful than married-in/longterm relationship folks who bleat endlessly about “famblee,”and how it should stick together no matter what, but think that means family members should constantly dance to their tune.

  19. Tessa says:

    Charles should never have allowed William to call the shots about harry Charles made a huge mistake

    • SURE says:

      After witnessing the vindictiveness of Charles’ behaviour this week, I think he and Camilla worked hand in glove with W to bring down H&M.

      • BothSidesNow says:

        Of course they did. But the problem for Charles is that he still refuses to reign in W. W. is Charles’s problem now, not anyone else’s.

        They are all guilty for their predicament, all due to their own actions.

  20. Snuffles says:

    What do you think the chances are of Charles and William actually reading Harry’s memoir cover to cover instead of having their courtiers summarizing it for them (in a very biased way) only for purposes of refuting everything in it? Or only reading about it via the British media’s very twisted lense?

    Or any other members of the family? I feel like Eugenie and Jack would definitely read it. Probably the Spencer aunts too. Who else?

    • Becks1 says:

      I think Charles is going to read it, very intently. I don’t get the impression William is much of a reader so who knows, but I think charles will def read it.

      • Snuffles says:

        I would love it if Harry sent signed copies to each of them with a hand written note.

      • BothSidesNow says:

        @ Snuffles, I think that as generous as Harry is, he would certainly gift them both before they his book hits the shelves, by about 1 or 2 days beforehand.

      • Becks1 says:

        He’ll probably give it to Charles for a birthday present LOL. Happy 74th Pa! Here ya go!

    • Jay says:

      Charles will absolutely read Harry’s memoir, or at least the parts that mention him, but he’ll never tell us. He’ll maintain that he’s never read it to try to avoid comment.

  21. Agreatreckoning says:

    Katie Nicholl didn’t even get the name of the Sussexes Windsor home right. It’s Frogmore Cottage not House.

    William has serious trust issues? Harry’s not the one who sent Jason Knauf with “evidence” in a court case or started a smear campaign/false bullying allegations against Meghan.

    Agree. It’s seems clear that Harry was never suppose to marry and that his role was to support/be a scapegoat for his brother along with being a buffer between W&K.

    • MsIam says:

      Well Harry was never supposed to marry a beautiful, independent black American woman, that is for sure. Whoever Harry married was going to be bullied and kept under Kate’s thumb. I can’t imagine even Pippa wanting that role.

    • BuzzKell says:

      I’m starting to get the impression that Kate and Will did everything they could to keep Harry single for years. I can imagine the abuse of Harry at the hands of his brother was a lifetime experience. It probably took Harry serving in the army to appreciate loyalty and true bonding and to learn to trust. So much so that Invictus games one of his greatest gifts/passions. I don’t believe Harry was that close to his brother. I think they share things as all siblings do, positive and negative, but that doesn’t necessarily mean they were tight. You saw them together all the time for PR. Not because they were close.

  22. ML says:

    Why do the RR make a point to write that H&M are celebrities as opposed to the royal family? The royals are not politicians, barristers, business men and women, etc,…they ARE celebrities. Exactly everything they do is predicated on them being famous.

    • MsIam says:

      Exactly. Evidently its the amount of jewelry you own that makes the difference. /s

    • ChillinginDC says:

      Because they want to other them. And if the populace realizes the Royals are just celebrities with looted jewelry people may start calling BS.

    • Jay says:

      I think the royals tell themselves that they are above being mere celebrities, but I don’t think that’s true, certainly not outside of England anyway.

  23. taris says:

    actually, that last part – about the sussexes being more “politico-philanthropic” is quite right. the thing to understand here is that these two are actually serious about doing something about some of the issues in the world, vis-à-vis the rest of the royals whose sole purpose, it seems, is to cut ribbons and go on mooching off taxpayers for the rest of their lives.

    harry and meghan *are* rivals to the house of the windsor, whether they like it or not. and i don’t think they mean to undermine the monarchy (or even to be the mega stars that they are), but their very existence, as meghan put it previously, threatens the entire establishment.

  24. Amy Bee says:

    What I don’t understand is why does William feel that he’s the victim in all of this? It’s like he expected Harry, as he has done the past, to take the abuse and the smears and remain in the Royal Family. It was bearable for him when he was single but with a family to protect he had to get out.

    • Tessa says:

      Will likes imo to order harry around and now is frustrated that he can’t

    • MsIam says:

      William sounds like a narcissist to me. Always a bully, yet still a victim too. I don’t see how you can live with someone like that without sacrificing your own well-being.

      • nutella toast says:

        When I saw the 2nd Charles pen incident, I thought, “There it is. That’s where William got that sense of entitlement and “everything is soooo haaarrrrddddd foooorrrr meeeeee” mentality”. Imagine feeling victimized by a leaky pen.

    • ChillinginDC says:

      Honestly because he’s been told his whole life he can do no wrong. He does not understand why Harry didn’t allow them to toss Meghan to the press. I think William has a whole thing that she was not tough enough to deal with things. Plus it even came out via the DM lawsuit that Harry’s family could not stand the messiness of her father. William probably thinks that Meghan should have done more or something. Ugh.

      I do think that the Oprah interview ticked off PW because even though people like to ignore it, it shows that the press was lying about several key things that if someone was smart enough would ask Catherine about once in a freaking while. I love how she got a whole pass on that Meghan made her cry story. And then her “fans” had to go well she tried to kill Charlotte. Mess.

      • MF says:

        “it even came out via the DM lawsuit that Harry’s family could not stand the messiness of her father.”

        This is particularly hilarious when you look at how messy the RF has been for decades. They are *FAR* worse than Tom Markle.

    • Over it says:

      I keep thinking about Margarethe and how being the spare and always having to play second fiddle to her sister destroyed her life. I don’t understand why the Windsors can’t learn from their past mistakes and make better choices. Like you have got to be completely heartless to want your own flesh and blood to be a doormat who dies alone so you can continue to live the life of top dog

    • Becks1 says:

      You answered your own question. It’s not “like” he expected Harry to take the abuse and be his lifelong scapegoat, he 100% expected him to. That was Harry’s role in life as far as william was concerned. So Harry getting out was/is unacceptable to William because he is rejecting his role in the Firm (as dictated by William and Charles and the overall Windsor family dynamic.)

      I am not sure if William will ever forgive Harry for that. William has spent his entire life with his own sins and failings covered up in the press because they can always just Harry. And they still can right now, but its starting to get old as we’re seeing with the pushback, so the press is going to need something else.

    • Jaded says:

      Blaming everyone else is a narcissist’s bread and butter. They play the poor victim role very well and will deflect, divert and project their worst behaviour onto everyone else. Bullying is their stock in trade.

    • Beach Dreams says:

      In addition to what everyone else said, I wouldn’t be surprised if Will was also bitter about Harry being able to leave in the first place. He expected Harry to live a life of misery in the monarchy with him, but now he’s seeing his brother thriving and living life on his own terms an ocean away. Despite all the PR in recent years claiming he’s ready to be king, he’s still clearly reluctant. Even this year, one of his 40th birthday profiles included a line about him “trying not to think too much about what he would’ve done” if he weren’t bound to the monarchy.

  25. Kati says:

    Seconding the motion that talks with a mediator are who people who genuinely WANT things to work out and get better. And have nothing to hide.
    God, the sentence on how Camilla “sputters” on the thought of that! So silly, her way of cheating on her own and other people’s spouses and talking badly about them behind their backs is obviously far superior.
    Really, as if this person should have any authority or able to have any moral highground. Blergh

  26. ChillinginDC says:

    No offense, but a lot of this seems made up. Nicholls has lied about so many thing. Also we heard that Charles apparently didn’t even know Meghan and Harry were at Windsor with the Queen and had to be told after the fact. I also do not believe Camilla said anything or that Harry suggested a mediator. I think that Nicholls wants to act like Harry is too “woke” or California these days or something. I do believe Omid who was like the reason why this didn’t leak was because PW was out of the country. I do believe that most of the animosity has been between PW and PH. We all know that he was the one tossing Meghan to the wolves.

    I do believe that some sources realized that the Sussex’s are doing great in California and they are going to continue to thrive.

    • Agreatreckoning says:

      Agree. Nicholl’s is full of sh*t and no true friends of Harry (hello Nacho Snack-to name one) are sharing with the original ‘Waity Katie”. Harry & William really do not have mutual friends anymore. I also doubt that H&M met with C&C during their secret visit to see the Queen. IMO, that story was Charles zebra musseling on the glorious stories and news interest in the Sussexes/Harry/Invictus Games. I’m a bit fascinated that the BM didn’t speculate on Harry & Meghan seeing the Queen in Balmoral before the OYW or Dusseldorf IG events. Would love to find out sometime down the road that they did.

      Back when Philip passed, I posted something about Harry being self-aware. Something to the effect of he knows who he is, he knows how his family is and his BRF doesn’t know who he is. Harry,imo, wouldn’t ask for a mediator if that hypothetical 15 minute meeting happened. That would also involve a mediation with the RRs/BM. Like Diana said, ‘there were three of us in this marriage, so it was a bit crowded’. The BRF has allowed the BM to be involved in their relationships/smear campaigns. It’s a bit crowded for a mediator. How does a mediator mediate with an “invisible contract”?

      Since certain stories have been recirculating and the BRF/BM’s treatment of Meghan has become even more globally recognized by high profile/blue check figures, I think this story needs another go around… case people missed it the first time. Dollars for lies is the RR/BM mantra. Funny thing, /s, in a google search, only the Independent reported on this story (at least in the 5 pages I looked at)-not one of the 7 RR’s (or their affiliates) did. You have to wonder why?hmmmhmmmm D@mn, the Daily Fail ran a garlic breath story…but, had zippo to say after the fact. Curiouser and curiouser. Cute how it’s absolutely ignored that Meghan was already put through a vetting process before the heinous headlines started about her in 2016. Anyhoo, I do hope that Simon Rex has been given more opportunites for his integrity. He was quite good in Red Rocket. 7th? paragraph down-the British Press factored in their decision to step down. It’s comical how the BM pretends they are innocent little lambs in EVERYTHING.

  27. Tessa says:

    Harry would not suggest a mediator because then perhaps will would choose Jason to mediate or maybe Kate

    • Lady D says:

      There is a national association of mediators. They are skilled and in demand. Plus, it needs to be a mediator that both sides can trust, or it will never work.
      The thought of Kate mediating anything was a great laugh. Thank you for that.

  28. Flower says:

    The BRF really showing themselves up again. The incessant need to control Harry’s story is frightening.

    They are just giving him more material for a super sized epilogue or even a second volume.

  29. Marisa says:

    Charlie’s is clearly holding Archie and Lillibet’s titles over their heads in an effort to shut down the book. What I believe is that they’ve come to peace with that happening and it no longer matters to them. Charles has gravely miscalculated his leverage in the situation.

    • MsIam says:

      And how would Charles get Harry to shut down the book when Harry is under contract? And Charles or William could take the titles at any time. First it’s the book, then Netflix, Spotify and who knows, maybe a divorce next. I agree though, I think this weekend may have made things crystal clear for the Sussexes. Time to move on.

      • lanne says:

        They can’t take the title right now. Only Parliament can. There is some pending legislation that could give the monarch the ability to rescind titles for any reason, but I would imagine the House of Lords would be super skeptical of something like that. Maybe the legislation says that only royal titles can be rescinded. But if that’s the case, then if Harry and Meghan’s titles are taken, Andrews would have to be as well. If titles are only for working royals, then the York Princess titles would have to be taken up as well, as would Louise and James’s titles. I highly doubt that Sophie and Edward would accept that. And then what about matters of succession: if your title is removed, does that remove you from the line of succession? What about the many non-titled people who are in the line of succession?

        That legislation would be opening up a huge can of worms. If they choose to strip only Harry and Meghan of their titles, then the royal family’s racism cannot be denied.

        The Sussexes have moved on , and the royals still have no idea how to contend with that, obviously. They want to “punish” Harry and Meghan for leaving obviously, but it’s going to be hard to create any kind of acceptable legal or social mandate for punishment that won’t immediately backfire on them.

        I think that’s what the royals resent most of all: How DARE Harry and Meghan put us in this awkward position!

  30. nutella toast says:

    I read the part about Meghan essentially providing “cover” for the racist royals last night as her “value” and just thought, “Are you freakin’ serious???” It’s not her job to provide cover for any of them. How about just stop acting racist. Do the work (or any work at all really).

    • Over it says:

      This all the way. These people really do believe that white supremacy must be upheld and protected at all cost, especially when using us black people to make sure it’s done

  31. Pumpkin (Was Sofia) says:

    The whole “William expected his brother to by his side and he’s not” blah blah is… William’s fault. He’s the one who briefed constantly against the Sussexes (wasn’t the only one I know but he was one). If he didn’t, the media and family atmosphere would not have been so bad for H&M.

    • BothSidesNow says:

      Yes, W’s fingerprints are all over the backs of Harry and especially Meghan. But we must not forget how K played a vital role in the smear and vile articles, leaks as well as intentional abuse heaped upon Meghan.

      As for Harry, K will never see a kind face nor hear a kind word from Harry for the rest of her life. As for his brother, Harry also will not make any attempts at repairing their relationship. W&K showed their asses again and again this past 2+ weeks. The walkabout alone had severed any chance of reconciliation.

      The Sussex’s are now hopefully home in Montecito with their beautiful children, enjoying the fresh air, all while secure in their decisions to limit contact, IF there is contact in the future. The house of Windsor no longer has any ties to their lives now. They will continue to grow, heal and take solace in each other’s love and support.

  32. Over it says:

    It’s frogmore cottage not house Katie, if you are going to print lying shit,at least get the basic correct.
    Chucky does not know the meaning of love unless it’s in regards to himself.
    These people really don’t see Harry as a human who was put here on this earth to find his own happiness.
    Two people can’t be king at the same time. So if kinging is too much for Willy, then he should walk away and get a real job.
    These people are pathetic and disgusting.

  33. Queen Meghan’s Hand says:

    Harry’s suggestion for a mediator breaks my heart. He truly doesn’t know that his family’s capacity for cruelty and emotional violence is immeasurable. You can’t mediate with a person who removes your security and then leaks you location to the press. You can’t mediate with someone who prevents your pregnant wife from getting medical treatment. You can’t mediate with someone who slanders your wife on a daily basis.

    Also, I am not trying to be a contrarian, but I do think Harry wants to come back—with his family and on conditions. At least before the Queen funeral. Remember: he never wanted to stop working for The Firm, just move to a different CW country and not take money from The Queen and Prince Regent. He said it in the Oprah interview! Harry was raised and steeped in this world. For the first 36 years of his life, he believed he would work to support the monarchy for as long as he lived. It’s only been two years outside of The Firm. So, no it’s not Charles’ or William’s call on whether Harry comes back but I don’t think it’s a Rota tin-foil hat theory that Harry wants a path back (maybe the funeral will change things). The Rota tin-foil hat theory is that Harry would leave his wife and children to come back.

    • Tessa says:

      I would be concerned with harry coming back for a variety of reasons he would be on call for Charles and William and they would try to keep him in the UK and not allow his wife and children and the media would write open letters urging harry to leave his family I could see this happening

  34. aquarius64 says:

    Nichol has unwittingly exposed the power dynamic under the reign of Charles 3. Camilla now has a big say about the family dynamics (not bad for a former side chick) . Team Wailes is led by William and William alone; Kate has no input nor she will be afforded any. It’s a bad look for a PssOW , a QC in waiting, not to be able to negotiate palace politics b/c no the men in grey will let Carole call the shots when it’s Bill’s turn.

  35. Merricat says:

    I do not doubt that Harry proposed mediation, but I think he did so as a last effort, knowing that Charles would refuse. Now Harry can be at peace with letting his father go, knowing that he tried his best.

    • Snuffles says:

      I agree. Harry can say he genuinely tried but Charles refused the meet him halfway.

    • lunchcoma says:

      I don’t think it would have needed to be as a last ditch effort? I actually think it could have been truly helpful. This situation is a nasty tangle of personal hurts and professional entanglements. In some ways, it’s more like a divorce than the typical estrangement of a parent and child. Having someone assist with the professional parts might have helped ease those along and stopped there from being so many additional snubs and grievances.

  36. JanetDR says:

    You have to wonder why they think Harry’s book is all about them. They must have done some awful things to him to be so scared of it, especially considering all of the horrible things we already know.
    I’m enjoying the thought of Harry and Meghan safely at home and cuddling with their little ones 💗

    • ROAA says:

      Charles mistreated Harry since the time he was born, he literally pulled the security from his son, daughter-in-law and grandson. Charles hates Harry but Harry still loves him.

      • Janet DR says:

        I know, but I very much doubt that will be the main story of the book. So the things we don’t know about already must be so much worse! I don’t think we are going to get that tea from Harry though.

    • A says:

      You know what really gets me is that all of the stuff that these people complain about–season 3, 4 and 5 of The Crown, the Oprah interview, etc., are actually things where they aren’t actually portrayed anywhere nearly as bad as they actually are.

      The Crown’s portrayal of Charles in season 3 and 4 made him look far, FAR better than it would have if they had just shown the actual truth. It was much more sympathetic towards Charles than he actually deserved. Even his negatives qualities were made into something that made people feel bad for him. It was the nicest sort of PR he could have ever hoped to get regarding the whole Diana situation.

      The Oprah interview named no names. Even when Meghan was correcting the record on the story about who made who cry during the bridesmaids dress fitting, she took great pains to stress the fact that a) she would not talk about the specifics, bc they resolved the issue, b) the whole thing doesn’t mean Kate is a bad person, even though Meghan wishes that she could have behaved with a little more understanding, and c) Kate apologized, they patched things up, and Meghan thought the whole thing was put behind them, which is why it shocked her when the lie was printed in the tabloids.

      Meghan put the blame for not setting the record straight on the people who work for the royals, and the arbitrary way in which they decide what is royal protocol, and what isn’t. She went out of her way to make it clear that she did not put the fault for this on Kate. She even suggested that Kate probably didn’t have the means to correct the story on her own. Meghan somehow got the truth out into the world without making Kate look bad. She gave Kate multiple ways to end the lies while still saving face, and all Kate did in return was screech endlessly in the press about how dare Meghan tell the truth rather than let Kate lie for the rest of eternity.

      Same thing with Harry’s documentary, The Me You Can’t See. Even in that little clip that was making the rounds last week, where he was talking about how Meghan was driven almost to suicide, and how his family and the institution failed to provide them with the support they needed, he did not discuss that with any sense of anger or hatred. He was actually rather understanding of them, even when he didn’t really need to be.

      He said something along the lines of how his family, much like many other families, was just unable to meet his needs, and how he the position he was in wrt that was a very common one. It was an astute observation of how things work in a lot of family situations, and I found myself relating to that exact idea, because I too have a family who I love, but who doesn’t meet my needs. And I love them, but I also have to accept and deal with that part of things as well.

      And it was a very, VERY kind thing to say about Charles, who really didn’t deserve it. No one would have begrudged Harry if he’d been angry and raging, but he wasn’t. He was just matter of fact. He tried to be vulnerable in front of his family, even while knowing they couldn’t meet his needs in that moment. It was the kindest thing that could have been said about his family’s reaction to that situation.

      So all this endless moaning in the tabloids about how Harry and Meghan are soooooo disrespectful and how everyone is afraid of what they’ll say about the royal family is just…it’s really just about poisoning the well. If they can put out their narrative on what they say is in Harry’s memoir, that is what people will believe is actually in Harry’s memoir, even without actually reading it for themselves. That’s what all this is really just about.

  37. CrazyHeCallsMe says:

    Before the BM and BRF smear campaign, Harry was the 2nd most popular Royal. Only the Queen was more popular. Imagine how that would have played out right now with the Queen’s death. The “irrelevant spare” more popular than the King and new Prince of Wales.

  38. ROAA says:

    So Charles will wait until Harry releases his memoirs and then he will strip Archie and Lili’s titles? What a loving grandpa!

    • Jaded says:

      At present Charles cannot strip Harry and Meghan’s titles, only an act of Parliament can do that. And only Harry can recuse himself from the line of succession by abdicating like Edward VIII did. There is some pending legislation that has gone through the 1st of 3 readings before it goes to the House of Lords about giving the reigning monarch the power to strip titles and limit them to working royals only, but that would open up a huge can of worms because it would set a precedent for removal of many other titles, so it will probably end up getting binned.

      • A says:

        “And only Harry can recuse himself from the line of succession by abdicating like Edward VIII did.”

        Harry would have to actually become monarch before he can abdicate. It’s not possible for him to abdicate his position in the line of succession. No one can remove themselves from the line of succession. Nor can the monarch remove an individual from the line of succession. The only way this can be done is through passing the required legislation to bring that mechanism into existence, and there is no such effort being made to do that afaik.

        The only way someone can relinquish their right to the throne is if they actually inherit it, at which point, they have the legal ability to formally abdicate. That’s what Edward VIII did, but you actually have to inherit the position before you can abdicate.

        A similar sort of mechanism exists for disclaiming hereditary peerages, under the Peerages Act 1963. However, there are rules for how this can be done, and the law really only exists for the purpose of allowing hereditary peers who have won seats in the House of Commons as MPs to retain their seat, which they would otherwise have automatically had to give up if they inherited a hereditary peerage.

        To disclaim a hereditary peerage, the person who inherits it has to deliver an instrument of disclaimer within a year of succeeding to the peerage, or, if they were under 21 at the time of succession, before their 22nd birthday. That means that Harry, who was made a royal duke at the time of his marriage, can’t give up his peer titles, bc he was conferred with a peerage, he didn’t inherit one.

        He also can’t give up his title of Prince. It was a title granted to him by the reigning monarch, QEII, and I’m assuming that, IF it can be taken away, it can only be taken away by the reigning monarch, who is Charles. However, I doubt Charles would open that can of worms, bc as is the case with the legislation that would allow for the monarch to strip titles from “””non-working royals”””, nobody who actually has something to lose will want any sort of legal method through which titles can be taken away from them.

  39. WaterIsLife says:

    “The royal family is an institution based on white inherited privilege.” ~VF

    The royal family is an institution based on white, inbred, and inherited privilege. Fixed it!

  40. Ace says:

    “it depends a lot on what happens in the coming months, particularly with Harry’s book and their TV show.”

    And yet again they show they have no idea of where the power lies in that relationship.

    H&M aren’t doing (or not doing) things with an eye pointed towards the BRF. They will do the things they want to do, what’s better for them, their family, and their business. Trying to blackmail them, because that’s what that is, will not work because they are already at peace with their decisions. They accepted the consequences when they left and, from what we’ve seen, they have no regrets about that.

  41. A says:

    “She told Harry it was ridiculous and that they were a family and would sort it out between themselves”

    And how’s that going for you, or your husband, Cammy dear. Oh that’s right. It’s not “going” at all, is it. Maybe that mediator’s not such a bad idea, although these people are so painfully typical of their generation that they’ll never even try and consider such a thing.

    “The point about royalty is it’s the only institution that links together civic society, the philanthropic world, and establishment.”

    Assuming that this senior aide isn’t a figment of Katie Nicholl’s imagination (and I honestly do think they aren’t, although I doubt they are as “senior” or as “close” to anyone in the RF as Nicholl is suggesting here)–are they freaking serious with this sh-t right now? Like, really?

    I mean…this is the British Royal Family. Assuming this source is also British, and given that Katie Nicholl is also British, it’s beyond shocking to me that this is truly what they think is the point of their monarchy. Like. Really?

    Either this is a totally canned answer, crafted to advance the propaganda that the royal family is “above politics” and “purely ceremonial” and “only there to serve”, or this person actually thinks this is the case, which is just bonkers for me. If you’re British, how in the world do you accept this as the “”point”” of the royal family, and not bother to scrutinize their role in your society any deeper?

    Stuff like this is what tells me that the monarchy is going nowhere for the time being. It is so clear that there needs to be some amount of genuine deconstruction that has to happen in a significant way before any progress can really be made on this, and that just hasn’t happened yet, and it doesn’t seem likely to happen in the near future.

  42. imoverit says:

    You have got to be kidding me-so the Caribbean tour failed because Harry and Megan didn’t go?! They find a way to shift the blame on Harry and Meg even when they are long out of the picture.

  43. C says:

    I knew this story was fake when it reported Camilla drinking tea.

  44. Nevia says:

    “She told Harry it was ridiculous and that they were a family and would sort it out between themselves.””

    Wtf, Camilla? Stop inserting yourself into this. You’re not Harry’s parent.

  45. K8erade says:

    Harry doesn’t trust these people. It goes as far as that and he won’t ever be caught unaware when dealing with his “family” again. He will be prepared and he wants witnesses. They want to talk big issues, lawyers can be there. I loved how during QEII’s funeral they were all like “Look, Harry is showing regret!!!!” All I could think was the only regret I see is Harry ever giving in to these people and leaving the Marines. He looks like someone who is regretting what his family will go through when he decides to burn it all to the ground.

    My fantasy of Harry giving up his place in succession is going into overdrive. It now involves him wearing a Reservoir dogs suit and lighting a cigarette on his way out of Buckingham Palace’s gates with the palace on fire in the background. You don’t need to tell me that it will never happen and Harry would be stupid to let it happen but at the same time I’m all for him doing whatever he feels he needs to do.

  46. lunchcoma says:

    A mediator actually sounds like a really good idea for a family that is a family but that is also an institution, and whether they want to admit it or not, a business!

    The timing of public appearances, relations with the media, possibly competing charitable projects, all that stuff is more in the professional realm than the personal one. It’s a shame Charles and Camilla look down their noses at people who suggestion treating professional matters in a professional way. There probably would have been a few more opportunities to…well, not mend personal ties, but have a fairly amicable divorce…if they had.

  47. B says:

    Soooo she’s implying that if Charles doesn’t like what the Sussexes do he’s going to strip their children of their HRH and Prince and Princess titles? They love to quote the Oprah interview as the source of animus but I wonder if they watched it? Meghan clearly stated if talking comes with a loss of things that it didn’t matter “because a lot had been lost already”. She also said the titles were her kids birthright and it wasn’t right they wanted to take it away but her main concern was that it was tied to security.

    In short they don’t care. The firm always planned to take away the titles so its not the threat they think it is.

  48. Athena says:

    My favorite is the line about Chuck making sure Harry and Meghan were by the family’s side at the queen’s funeral. Someone actually floated the idea of siting them where? by the front door? Chuck thinks this is a good thing to put out there. This is the family that Elizabeth Regina raised! Pitiful!

  49. Athena says:

    What is their plan if Charles and William die before George reaches an age when he can effectively govern. I know William is only 40 but younger people die also. They die in car crashes, helicopter crashes, aggressive incurable cancers. Not wishing any of that on them but these things happen. For that reason they need to keep Harry in the fold. Someone who can guide and mentor George in the interim.

  50. Saucy&Sassy says:

    What’s interesting to me is that she quotes a “family friend” and recently it was a “friend of the sussexes”. Since, H&M speak through their spokesman or they speak for themselves I wonder why this is happening so much.

    I know they want engagement from the Sussexes, but this isn’t the way to do it. It’ll be interesting to see how far they’ll push this. Are they wanting the Sussexes to sue, so they’ll just get more and more over the line?

    Clearly, Chuck is behind this. He wants to look like the peacemaking “bigger man”. The problem this creates is that what’s being written about the Sussexes history is the opposite to what they’re saying. It’ll be interesting to see how this goes now since more people got an eye opening, front row seat to how the Windsors treated H&M during the funeral circus.

    • kirk says:

      Saucy&Sassy – Agree with you on all points. Without Sussex spokesperson confirmation or them speaking themselves, it’s just blah, blah mediator blah that might be swallowed by gullible people who’ve forgotten, or never knew, the Sussex “zero engagement” policy.

      “[L]ong-term plan in place for the brothers to work together and support one another…” 😒 What’s the plan? Why can’t the plan for ‘spares’ be codified into a job description with specifications about the nationality of potential spouses, etc. While they’re at it, they should specify what counts as ‘work’ for working royals rather than just allowing self-serving interpretations by their pet principals. Of course that would make them too accountable to the serfs (ooops meant subjects).

  51. Deering24 says:

    “The point about royalty is it’s the only institution that links together civic society, the philanthropic world, and establishment.”

    But it is not the only service game in town. And if people are being helped, who cares? In short, he’s saying that only the British old boy network can do philanthropy right, which is patently stupid.

    • A says:

      I’d love to know exactly what this person means when they refer to “the establishment.” Is this the political establishment? Legal? What sort of entity is he even talking about?

      If this person actually does mean the political establishment, well…I thought that the British monarch is just a ceremonial role that exists above and does not interfere with politics? Except here, I’m being told that the monarchy is the ONLY (LOL!!!) institution that links civic society, the philanthropic world, and “””the establishment”””?? What does that even mean, lmao.

  52. JCallas says:

    The more I read, the more I think QEII would have allowed H&M to be part time royals but was overruled by Charles and her courtiers.

    It seems like Charles is trying to use the kids titles to blackmail the Sussexes.

    • Beach Dreams says:

      I’m struggling on what Charles’ angle has been on that issue…everything that’s happened from the Oprah interview to now has shown that he’s played a much larger (and pretty damn sinister) role in Sussexit than we all initially thought. Everyone assumed that it was only William who pushed the all-in vs. all-out ultimatum at the summit, but maybe Charles did as well. After all, he had always included Harry and whoever his wife would be in the slimmed-down monarchy plan. That completely changed when Meghan came into the picture, and all of a sudden it was “Harry needs to figure out a role for himself”, “Harry doesn’t have a defined place in the monarchy”, and other narratives contradicting what’s been said for years. And while he put on a good show of support at the wedding, I’m pretty sure it was him/his people telling Harry that there was no money to pay for Meghan and she should continue acting. I think Charles wanted them completely out in the hopes that they would flounder and Harry, as Christopher Wilson put it, would return to them alone.

  53. Maria says:

    “To this day, William still cannot forgive his brother” for leaving.

    have we all lapsed in our memories? Story after story in 2019 told us The Palace / Royal Family (read: William) wanted the Sussexes out of England, that they were looking for another country to send Harry and Meghan into exile — Canada (too close!), then Australia (still would be too much attention on them!), then somewhere in Africa (ah, just right) — for at least several years because they were too popular.

    They were kicked out. They decided to try and have at least some say in their exile location and lifestyle and tried to negotiate this and stay part-time working royals, and were rebuffed. That’s why they ended up in America and on Oprah and Netflix. Lest we forget.

  54. Bread and Circuses says:

    I think it’s far easier for Harry to not leak, because he doesn’t have a sprawling, corrupt hydra of palace staff around him.

    What I mean is that even if King Charles did his best to keep things secret, he’s working at cross-purposes with the people supposedly there to help him. There are celebrities who have their shit locked down better than the royal family does, because The Palace is an entity that exists to perpetuate itself, and that means its aims can, but don’t always, align with what’s best for the individual members of the royal family, no matter who is supposedly in charge.

    • PrincessK says:

      Excellent summation!

    • HeyKay says:

      Bread and Circuses, Well said. I think you have hit the nail on the head.

      Gotta give Harry credit. His asking for mediation is an excellent idea.
      Adults who want to reunite family members often go into family therapy or mediation.

      Wouldn’t that be something if Charles, William and Harry could actually pull together? Therapy or mediation might be a good start.

      I do think that TPTB behind the scenes do work against the separate members of the BRF. The Monarchy pays a lotta staff, pr, protection, etc., etc. Plus all the tabloids, books, gossip and entertainment sites, morning tv, tourism, etc.

      Damn Walt Disney and all the fairytales from years gone by. Sold us a load of BS.
      Look at Charlene of Monaco, and Diana…Princess titles yes. But Diana was in a loveless marriage and Charlene looks totally miserable ever since she married Albert.

      Harry has his work cut out for him, going forward. The British press seems to truly have it in for H&M.

    • A says:

      Agreed 100%.

      And you know, Charles is the king. He is the boss here. And to quote Lord Altrincham’s dialogue from The Crown, “If the court is wrong, if the setup is wrong, you have no choice but to criticize the boss. Because only the boss can get rid of the bad servants. They hire them.”

      These palace staffers are Charles’ employees, at the end of the day. It’s on Charles to hire the sorts of people who can do the job in the way he wants it done. If the people he has in his employ are currently the ones who are leaking things about Harry and Meghan left right and center, then the logical conclusion from that is that this is what Charles wants. And like you said, what Charles wants is not exactly the sort of stuff that would be in his best interests as an individual.

      But even if he isn’t exactly best equipped to do stuff that would be in his best interests as a person, you’d think he’d at least be able to do stuff that serves the best interests of him as a monarch. And there’s just no way that this sort of familial strife and continued abuse of two of its members is in the best interests of the monarch.

  55. Bisynaptic says:

    “Actually, the more you see about how the Sussexes are approaching these things, it is much more Californian, much closer aligned to activism and celebrity than it is to royalty. The point about royalty is it’s the only institution that links together civic society, the philanthropic world, and establishment.”
    —say what?

  56. blunt talker says:

    I agree with the poster Marisa-King Charlie is holding those kids titles over their heads unless Harry lets him read the book or cancels it-I don’t know if Camilla said that to Harry-she is not his mother or his family-she is the witch that helped break up his parents marriage and literally hurt and deceived Diana the whole time with Charles help-I can’t imagine the pain and hurt Diana felt during that time-I will always believe the royal family played a part her death whether directly or indirectly-God bless and keep the Sussex family.

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