Nicholl: Duchess Kate had a ‘wakeup call’ about Meghan’s charisma in 2018

Katie Nicholl’s latest book, The New Royals, has been excerpted in Vanity Fair and the Daily Mail extensively. I’ve covered some of it, especially the old stories with new Nicholl/Kensington Palace twists. The New Royals seems very light on fresh tea – there’s a lot of rehashing of old grudges, and it seems that at no point does Nicholl actually use the Duke and Duchess of Sussex’s Oprah interview as a first-hand account of their actual experiences. Instead, Nicholl uses palace sources to keensplain everything that went wrong behind the scenes. Anyway, Entertainment Tonight had additional highlights from the book:

Charles hated Diana’s stardom: “Her star immediately eclipsed her husband’s, causing early fractures in their relationship. The diligent, sensitive, and status-conscious Charles found it hard to understand. He could not see that in the new media age, being a royal-born prince and future king was a lesser currency than his wife’s megawatt beauty and disposition.”

Charles was also jealous of the attention Kate received: After Diana’s death and with William’s introduction of Kate into the world, Charles once again had to compete for the media’s attention when it came to coverage of his engagements because all eyes were on what Kate wore – leading to apparent clashes with William. “In the past, father and son hadn’t always seen eye to eye. There was a well-documented clash of opinions in 2013 over the palace’s priceless collection of ivory, for one,” Nicholl writes. “And Charles was sometimes irritated that Kate’s frocks got more media attention than his good works. He also had been hurt by not seeing as much of his Cambridge grandchildren as he might have liked.”

William & Kate’s reaction to Meghan’s appearance at the Royal Foundation event in February 2018: “It was, according to one aide, the moment William and Kate, who was heavily pregnant, realized they needed to up their game. The Cambridges had already signaled their intention to be more than ‘ornamental royals’ and had, along with Harry, made a huge success of their mental health campaign Heads Together. But Meghan was the breakout star of the foursome. She was polished, passionate, and funny, using all her TV-honed skills to present her case. That was a wake-up moment for William and Kate when they realized that Meghan was very impressive, very confident, and very capable, according to a source.”

Prince Philip asked Charles to take care of QEII: According to the book, while they did not sleep in the same bed, the Queen had undoubted love for her husband. He clearly felt the same and made it evident to his son. Prior to his death, and as his health began to deteriorate more, the royal had a final request for his son which Nicholl writes were, “Look after the Queen” and “Keep the family together.” “According to a family friend: ‘Philip slept a lot but [Elizabeth] made sure he was comfortable. She read to him, played him music, and they reminisced, going through family albums together. Charles got time with his father as well and Philip told him, ‘Whatever you do, promise me you will take care of your mother.’ Charles was very emotional.”

[From ET]

That last part about Philip asking Charles to “take care” of the Queen… in less than a year after Philip’s passing, Charles was so reckless with masking and Covid protocols that QEII got a bad case of Covid. Charles was also out of the country when QEII was secretly hospitalized a year ago. Besides, I’m pretty sure that Philip would have asked Anne to take care of the Queen rather than Charles. But whatever.

As for what Nicholl writes about that Royal Foundation meeting, the birth of the so-called “Fab Four,” it’s funny to think that William and Kate were seething with jealousy from that point on. But really, it started way before that. Kate was literally doing crisis meetings with her mother the second Meghan and Harry became engaged. I still remember the Middletons’ hatchet job on Meghan around Pippa’s 2017 wedding too. Weird that Nicholl seems to forget all about that!

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193 Responses to “Nicholl: Duchess Kate had a ‘wakeup call’ about Meghan’s charisma in 2018”

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  1. Snuffles says:

    “It was, according to one aide, the moment William and Kate, who was heavily pregnant, realized they needed to up their game.”

    If “up their game” meant ramp up the smear campaign to destroy Meghan and get her to leave Harry, then, yeah. Because they’ve done fuck all to improve the “work” that they do.

    • MakeEverydayCount says:

      Karentherine started her bullying campaign and media manipulation from the very beginning

      • Maxine Branch says:

        Totally agree with many of the comments. It was obvious from the photos I have seen that Kate had a fixation on Harry, be it companionship or something more it was obvious. Any woman Harry eventually chose would have been a problem for her but Meghan represented the best of the bunch he had previously dated. She is beautiful, well educated, charismatic and articulate. Many actors from what I have observed from award shows do not have her ability to speak so naturally in front of an audience without a script. The vilification of Meghan is the result of all the positive attributes she has in addition to her race. She carried herself while a member of that family with dignity and grace and her past life before Harry was unimpeachable. Very happy Harry got her away from those charlatans because their whole goal was to beak her. Just wish his eyes were opened prior to sharing her with his family because the trauma she experienced was uncalled for.

      • MakeEverydayCount says:

        @Maxine Branch: Agreed. I think Harry was surprised that his family didn’t support Meghan against the media. Harry knew they could’ve asked the media to stop but chose not to protect Meghan and Archie. Mark my word…Charles is using Kate at the moment. Once he has gotten what he needs from her he will start his smear campaign against her because he wants the attention for him and Camilla. Kate’s time is coming.

    • Tessa says:

      Yes she was heavily pregnant but why is that relevant Kate being not prepared was about her missing opportunities to up her game and she had years to do so

      • Lorelei says:

        @Tessa, EXCELLENT QUESTION! Printing this basically confirms that they (and everyone else) knew how lazy and unpopular W&K were (and continue to be)

      • Blue Nails Betty says:

        Exactly. By the time of that 2018 event Kate had been a working royal for approx. SEVEN years.

        Imagine being seven years into your job and sucking as much as Kate did at her job.

      • Moneypenny424 says:

        Then she was heavily lazy.

      • DK says:

        @Tessa, I honestly think Kate’s being “heavily pregnant” is only relevant in Kate’s mind – I bet she hated how she looked in those pictures, especially compared to Meghan, and since looking good and being fashionable were the main things Kate was bringing to the table (even KC was jealous of her!) , she felt incredibly threatened.

        [Please note of course that I personally don’t think any woman should be judged on how she looks, pregnant or otherwise – but I *DO* think Kate likely feels that way.]

        Add to that, Meghan’s innate star power, natural curiosity about and empathy for others, plus her work ethic, honed from years of a grueling weekly TV show film schedule, meant she was willing and able to put in hard work, do her homework, learn her lines/talking points and deliver them like a champ, etc., in a way that not only are W&K apparently incapable of, but also (how is this even possible?! what did they think their “life of service” would entail?) never imagined would be expected of them.

        It just made Kate realize what frauds they were – and that there was a real chance the public might come to realize that as well.

      • SugarHere says:

        @MoneyPenny: I like your phrase. “Heavily lazy” is what define Catherine Middleton, but not only her. William was a mediocre student and choosing to major in history of arts is usually the laziest academic field if you were born into old money and don’t have to worry about job outcomes.

        Though 99% of mankind regards sloth as a deadly sin, the upper classes don’t. The aristocratic establishment value idleness -even more than money- as the true marker of class status and privilege. Anyone putting an effort into anything is dismissed as a slogging industrious peasant. The Royals resented Meghan’s stamina and meticulousness because her working efficaciously blurred the social delineation between rich and poor, between the exploitive Victorian standard and the equalitarian modern requirement to live a productive life.

        Meghan didn’t prompt a revolution, she set a model of exacting work ethics for herself, that ended up reverberating and exposing the Royals’ antithetical relationship to effort. And the fact that such work discipline was carried out by a bi-racial American woman was seen as offensive by White Old England (WOE 🤭).

    • Debbie says:

      @Snuffles: Well, of course “upping their game” meant ramping up the smear campaign against Meghan, that’s much easier than W & K working harder.

    • Size Does Matter says:

      I don’t think it would be such a problem if they hadn’t already gotten a negative image from being work-shy and waity. Plus Harry’s redemption arc and development into a dang fox while William slid facefirst into his Windsor genes. And Meghan is beautiful and exotic and a professional who has supported herself in a very difficult industry and hit the ground running. It’s a combination of things.

      • fishface says:

        love your comment!

      • Moxylady says:

        Please don’t use the word “exotic” to refer to a person of color. While I know you meant it as a compliment and to illustrate how different she was from the line up of aristocrats, it’s still an extremely problematic word.

      • SugarHere says:

        @MoxyLady: I understand that political correctness is a thing, but the issue with that tendency to avoid naming things, is that it dilutes the real stakes into polished language. Meghan’s predicament comes from being perceived as exotic, as too challenging a persona to be integrated within the Royal Family. Remove the term “exotic” from the equation and none of the trials she suffered, makes sense. This is no place for censorship.

        EXotic = EXternal, agreeable yet unwanted element

      • Not a Subject says:

        @SugarHere Sorry but NO. Exotic is an extremely racially charged word, like uppity, boy, etc. You can use alternate words to make the same point (without being offensive) different, distinct, foreign, non-native british upbringing….. But please not the word exotic in regards to a black human. You are welcome to use it in regards to a flower or cat breed.

    • KARINA says:

      K and w would have had it so easy if their vanity get in the way. If they had just let H and M be glamorous and charming while they stayed more chill they would have done a lot of the work for W and K and strengthen their future. But they got grubby and petty

      • Nuks says:

        Exactly. W&K could have been solid background, journeyman Royals if you will. There’s nothing wrong with looking good in the background, it’s the safest place to be. People learn to rely on your simple presence and you don’t have to take all the arrows.

      • Penelope says:

        I think you could have said “perceived as exotic” the first time and captured the right effect. Language has so many nuances, particularly when it is considered in its historical context. I was like “well how the hell am I supposed to describe Barak if I can’t say he’s articulate!” the first time someone explained microagressions to me. Small incremental changes can make society a nicer place for everyone, and it’s not so hard to drop a word or two from your lexicon in particular contexts. I’ve stopped using he/she and just use they, which was hard because I’m a prescriptive grammarian. That’s a fancy term for grammar nazi. Anyway, I know what you said was a compliment and she’s all those things, I’m in full agreement with your sentiment.

    • Mrs.Krabapple says:

      Charles (and by extension his wife) and William (and his wife) don’t “need” to work to become king. They were born in the correct order, and that’s all it took (gender also would have mattered if either one wasn’t the first child). So it doesn’t matter how smart, or hard-working, or empathetic, or educated, they are, or if they are lazy, incompetent, shallow, corrupt, etc. None of that matters to how a king is chosen, only birth. That’s how monarchies work, and that’s why monarchies are stupid. People can complain “they’re so lazy!” — but so what? It doesn’t matter.

      • notasugarhere says:

        It matters because Harry and Meghan’s charisma and work ethic showed them up. It matters because more and more countries are going to dump the monarchy in the next few years, not the least of which because of what has been revealed about the Windsor family in the last five years. Even Wales is rising up.

  2. Noki says:

    I am suprised that panel discussion is still on Youtube,Meghan had no idea she was expeced to dim her light. Like someone mentioned yesterday thats when the penny dropped for Will and how Kate was never going to measure up. I guess they found their solution.

    • C says:

      No worries, racist trolls are still all over the comments saying Meghan is spouting a “word salad” and not letting Kate get a word in.

      • Tessa says:

        Kate had all the time in the world to become more articulate she is responsible for her own shortcomings

      • C says:

        She didn’t have anything to say, articulate or not, lol.

      • Mrs.Krabapple says:

        Meghan was doing Kate a favor by not allowing her to humiliate herself. When allowed to speak, Kate says things like “Can you test the smell of the tea by smelling it?” and “I wonder if they still make imperial Faberge eggs?”

        Dr. Biden let Kate speak, and this is what the world got: “the focus isn’t on parenting itself, but actually how can we give them the tools so they are having their babies and raising their children with these greater tools.”

        So, yeah, Meghan was being kind.

      • C says:

        Meghan didn’t “not allow her” to speak at all though, lol.

      • Mrs.Krabapple says:

        I shouldn’t have said “not allowed her to speak” (that was just adopting the language of the critics). But maybe “taking the burden off of Kate” was more accurate.

    • Well Wisher says:

      Kate could not outshine William as per marriage agreement.
      But he allegedly chose working women to have affairs.

      • C says:

        There’s never been any kind of agreement like that. She’s always been lazy and that never changed during engagement and marriage.

      • Jaded says:

        @Well Wisher — I was thinking about that very thing the other day after reading yet another article about William’s *alleged* philandering. He seems to choose smart, professional women for his dalliances, the very antithesis of Kate. I think it must be because he’s bored stiff with Kate’s empty-headed lack of interest in anything other than babies and realizes he chose the wrong woman to be his wife.

      • Feeshalori says:

        I don’t think Will can handle a professional woman as his wife i.e. someone the caliber of Meghan. For him, they’re fine as dalliances but as a wife who would outperform, outsmart and outshine his lazy butt? That’s doubtful unless he did a 180 degree turn and realize someone like that can help not hinder him. And after Meghan’s treatment, l would think any smart professional woman would run for the hills before getting involved in a relationship and family like that.

      • HeatherC says:

        I don’t know, C. I think she hustled pretty hard to bag him in the first place. Then she got lazy. As for him and professional women, I bet he gets a kick out of a woman having to rearrange something to be with him, a problem he never had with Kate.

      • C says:

        That’s the only way in which she hasn’t been lazy. Her effort to date him, marry him, and maintain their relationship. Even then it was just periods of blowouts, shopping, working out all day waiting for him to call. Belle Robinson of Jigsaw talked about the brief period Kate “worked” there and stated Kate told her that she was dictated to when she was needed and not needed.
        Outside of that? Nothing, since university.

  3. Tessa says:

    I doubt Charles was jealous of Kate since Kate is no Diana and Kate is very stepford Diana had great public speaking skills Kate does not Charles is a jealous sort but I doubt he felt jealous of Kate Kate also pit up with wills cheating

    • Tessa says:

      Put up with

    • equality says:

      Charles seemed to actually have some passion for his causes so I could see it irritating him that Kate’s fashion got more headlines than serious causes did.

      • Becks1 says:

        Yeah I am sure he was jealous of the attention Kate got, but I think he also knew she was lazy and ultimately boring so she wasn’t a long term threat to him.

    • Kiera says:

      I would say he was frustrated with a tinge of jealousy. He just could never wrap his head around the fact that as a society we like the pageantry of royalty, the tiaras/dresses/etc. And honestly guys in black tie is boring.

      And Kate is traditionally(blandly) attractive which helps make her palatable to a greater number of people. He just could never understand that we all approve of and applaud good works but our visceral reactions are for the sparkle. Which Diana had/Meghan has and Kate thinks she has….

      • Lorelei says:

        Honestly, I can believe it. Charles’s jealously has pretty much been his defining characteristic for decades and decades of his life, and we all know he’s pettyAF.
        I wouldn’t be surprised to hear he’s jealous of George, for heaven’s sake.

      • Sue E Generis says:

        @Lorelai It’s why Camilla is queen today. Charles chose someone he would never have to worry about outshining him, and who would cater to his unending insecurities. Listening to their taped conversations, it’s always about him whining on and on about how put upon he is and Camilla responding with endless comforting and reassuring phrases. She was also willing to put up with any and all humiliation without complaint.

      • Emily_C says:

        @Sue E Generis Exactly. I’d thought the tampon conversation was some sex thing, but then I listened to it, and it was so much grosser than that could possibly have been. It was just Charles rolling around in self-pity about how he was the most unfortunate man who ever had been or ever will be, and Camilla making soothing noises at him.

      • Debbie says:

        @Sue E Generis: I’ll take your word for it about the tampon tapes as I have a weak stomach. I have no desire to wade through what passes for love talk between C & C, thank you. Brave of you to review it though.

      • Tessa says:

        I listened to that tape and it took a long time for Charles to tell Camilla he loved her. she had to say it to him about 20 times before he finally said it. Says a lot about their relationship IMO. And then his telling her “your greatest achievement is to love me.” LOL

      • Deering24 says:

        Tessa—yeesh. 🤮🤮🤮🤮

    • Concern Fae says:

      There were articles about this at the time. They were the usual ones that are supposed to be making Charles look like a good person, concerned about his charitable endeavors, but make him seem like a petty, whiny ass.

      So I assume they were true reflections of his feelings.

    • Jan90067 says:

      Actually, Kiera, Diana did NOT have great “speaking skills”. In fact, although she deemed herself “as thick as a plank”, she had a natural curiosity, and she was smart enough to know to HELP *HERSELF* to *develop* those skills. She hired people to help her learn how to give speeches (she even had her lessons/practices videoed so as to learn from these). I remember reading somewhere she had even asked Dickie Attenborough to help her.

      She also took advantage of using Vogue editors to help cultivate her wardrobe, to lose the Peter Pan collars and twee outfits, to make her look more polished and professional.

      In other words: Diana CHOSE to educate herself, to BETTER herself in her role as PoW.

      KKKhate refuses to do anything of the sort.

      • Tessa says:

        You are right Jan90067 she did not have good speaking skills at the beginning. She was told later by her speech teacher that she spoke too fast and did not project. She did get good speech when she took public speaking lessons. She unlike Kate realized there was room for improvement. Kate may think she’s good as is. Diana used “thick as a plank” to cheer up a little girl she met on a walk about but she had an innate curiosity to learn and she was interested in her causes and charities.. I agree with you. Diana did not live in the narrow world of “aren’t those babies cute” talk that Kate has and resorted to the fake grins and laughing.

      • booboocita says:

        Yet another reason Harry is Diana’s son. They both sought professional help to correct and overcome their shortcomings. PwBT is Chucky Boy’s son, through and through, down to the pettiness and jealousy.

      • Sue Denim says:

        Diana also had a v high level of emotional intelligence. And a sense of humor. Watch old clips and see how people she’s visiting w break out into genuine laughs after she says something to them, often people in dire straits too, like in hospitals or war zones. Moments of real connection. She was really special.

  4. Tessa says:

    When I see that family shot of Charlotte put over to the side with Charles nearest the male children i feel sorry for her

    • Kokiri says:

      Would have been nice if Camilla put an arm around Charlotte.
      But that’s Camilla, she’s no grandma to those kids. She’s an empty shell if a bitter ugly woman.
      Poor Charlotte.

    • damejudi says:

      This portrait always bothers me for this exact reason.

      • Paulkid says:

        I think it would bother me to see Cumiller acting grandmotherly toward Diana’s granddaughter, only highlighting the tragedy that she couldn’t embrace Charlotte herself, due to the Wales’ marriage being broken by Chawlz’ infidelity. I do notice in this photo and others, Cumiller uses the sublimally messaged ” heart hands”. As if.
        I agree he chose a nanny figure versus a partner or competitor for public adoration.

  5. Lorelei says:

    It took Kate TWO YEARS to realize this?? Obviously, no one knew *for sure* in 2016 that the Sussexes would end up getting married, but it was evident from day one that Harry was very serious about Meghan. And I’m sure Kate Googled her and saw her speech at the UN, etc. Kate is a dim bulb, but come ON.

    • Lemons says:

      But remember that Kate & William meet very capable, intelligent people all the time. They just dumb down their speech at panels and interviews so that these two can feel special.

      Meghan simply showed up prepared to a panel, ready for an intelligent discussion and that was enough to overshadow these two. We will be talking about that first joint event for years to come because it highlights how underwhelming these two are when the job becomes more than photo ops.

      • Green girl says:

        I agree it was obvious from the start that Meghan was “the one” for Harry. So did it really take Kate and William until that engagement to see her in action and realize she can effortlessly show them up? If that’s the case they really are dim. And the time spent smearing Meghan could have been spent improving their own public appearances.

    • Debbie says:

      Perhaps Kate expected a very long engagement between H & M too because William kept her waiting so long.

      • Jais says:

        That’s true. She prob thought she had more time and that the tabs would scare her into leaving.

      • sparrow says:

        Debbie, that is such a great point. Like Jais says, a longer engagement could have given Kate time to strategise and at least try to break them apart (a feat possible only in her own mind).

      • Tessa says:

        what’s annoying is Kate actually thought of herself as capable of advising Harry about his relationship with Meghan (and also perhaps with Chelsy and Cressida). She was no “sister” to Harry and she should have minded her own business. IMO.

      • aftershocks says:

        ^^ The main reasons for the long ‘waityship’ of Khate is because Will had a roving eye and he and the firm would have preferred an aristocrat like Isabella Calthorpe. But no British aristocrat lady would take the marriage plunge with Will, likely in part due to what happened to Diana, and also cuz they had no significant interest in Will as a lifetime partner.

        Probably the chief reason for W&K’s long off-and-on courtship is that Khate met and stalked Will in college. Will was NEVER going to commit to anyone right out of college, so comparisons to the short length of M&H’s courtship in their 30s makes absolutely no sense!

    • Jay says:

      I think most of us could see the writing on the wall in 2016, but we know that Harry’s family urged him not to go “too fast” and somehow thought that Meghan was a phase or something. They needed him to stay fun, third wheel Harry forever, and I imagine it was hard to accept reality until they absolutely had to.

      What this excerpt really highlights is how much Charles’ jealousy and pettiness has had a lasting impact on this family.

  6. Aurora1 says:

    What’s hilarious is that Meghan was doing the bare minimum at that panel (i.e. being knowledgeable, engaged and coherent). The Keens being alarmed by this is an indictment against their own mediocrity.

  7. bitsycs says:

    Diana’s bloodline is more English/British than Charles’ lol. If he was so status conscious he should know that (sorry but the Windsor’s snobbery makes me laugh, esp in regards to Diana). I realize that’s not the main thrust of this but I can’t resist pointing that out when people like Katie Nicholl write crap like that.

    • WiththeAmerican says:

      That always slays me too. They’re German, Greek and Danish. Sooo the options of British? Lol

      • Fortuona says:

        And Scots thought his Grandmother who is related The Bruce

      • tamsin says:

        I don’t think there is actually any Greek blood. A monarchy was imposed on Greece.

      • Anastasia says:

        @Tamsin, you’re right. There is no Greek blood in the “Greek” royal family, the Brits, French, and Russians aided the nation in their independence from the Ottomans, and then actually tried to colonize it. The Greeks rejected it, so they imposed the Monarchy instead: the Danish. Up until the 1960sish generation, all the spouses were selected from other royal houses in Europe. I believe there was one Greek woman who was actually forced into exile because one of the princes fell in love with her and that was unacceptable.

      • aftershocks says:

        @Fortuona said: “And [Charles is] Scottish through his grandmother who is related to the Bruce.”

        ^^ Queen Mother Elizabeth Bowes-Lyon’s father was Scottish nobility. Her mother was English nobility.

        And true, Prince Philip has German, Danish, and Russian ancestry. No Greek blood at all.

    • MerlinsMom1018 says:

      I had always heard that Diana’s bloodline was more aristocratic and older than Charles, so doesn’t that make William and Harry “superior” to their dad?
      A Brit friend of mine always said that Diana “married down”

      • Sid says:

        Yes. Diana leveled up that ratchet family in so many ways and they repaid her with viciousness. I look forward to seeing their continued decline, slow as it may be.

      • Jess says:

        Umm no…

        Being an aristocrat means your family was usually the descendant of an illegitimate child of a King who was then given a title. How does that make Diana superior to Charles when he descends from legitimate Kings and their heirs.

      • Annalise says:

        @JESS- Because Diana’s blood is ACTUALLY British. Charles is mostly German and Greek, I believe. While the Windsors may claim to trace their ancestry back to Alfred of Wessex, one only needs to look at a the family tree to see how diluted with German blood, Charles’ British blood is. Diana, on the other hand, is all British.

      • aftershocks says:

        ^^ Yep, plus Diana’s ancestry goes all the way back to King Edward III. She has numerous royal ancestors. Also btw, Meghan is related to Diana and the Spencers through her paternal grandmother’s ancestry! LOL! 😆

      • Tessa says:

        Charles descended from Princess Elizabeth, daughter of James I. She was the ancestress of the Hanoverian Kings, the Georges. Diana’s descent was through James I’s sons Charles II and James II, through illegitimate children so Diana was descended from the Stuart and English Kings, male issue of James I. Charles had three lines of descent from George III through Queen Victoria and Queen Mary.

      • aftershocks says:

        @Annalise & @WithTheAmerican, Prince Philip’s paternal grandfather was brought to Greece to become King, similar to the German Hanovers being brought over to rule England. For Philip’s family, the Greek kingship did not work out — they were exiled, as Greece was not a stable country politically under monarchical rule.

        Thus, the Mountbattens are NOT Greek by blood. They are German, Russian, and Danish. This is all relevant to M&H in that it makes their kids a mixture of German, Danish, Russian, Scottish, and English on Harry’s side, plus Dutch, German, Irish, English, African American and Native American on Meghan’s side. Note that there is no Maltese ancestry because Meg’s ancestors who lived in Malta had migrated there from England and Ireland.

      • aftershocks says:

        @Jess, no, ‘aristocrat’ does not mean ‘descent from illegitimate offspring of kings’! Of course, there were illegitimate offspring of English kings who were given titles. But in general, aristocrats originated in ancient times from soldiers who made up the king’s armies. They received knighthoods and noble titles for their loyalty and bravery.

        Let’s also recall that William the Conqueror came from Normandy, which is now a region in France. Also, King Edward III’s wife, Philippa of Hainault (described in ancient documents as ‘brown-skinned’) was from Lombardy, a region in northern Italy.

      • Annalise says:

        @AFTERSHOCKS- thank you for the clarification regarding Pr Phillip’s (and therefore Charles’) background! While I was certain of the German part, I wasn’t certain of the Greek part, although I know Greece played some part in his family’s history, i shouldn’t have assumed that meant he had Greek blood.
        Anyway, thank you for the info! Petty as it sounds, I am ALL for any information that helps delegitimize the awful awful Windsors 🤮

      • aftershocks says:

        ^^ Yeah @Annalise, this is all very interesting ancestral history which is very instructive. When you said that Diana is “all British,” that’s true for the most part. Diana is related to the Spencers, the Churchills, the Stuarts, and on her mother’s side, the Irish Fermoys. Diana’s Fermoy great-grandfather married an American, Ellen Work. Doing an online search will provide links to fascinating details about Diana’s ancestral roots.

        Thanks so much to @Tessa for pointing out the British Hanoverian connection in Elizabeth Stuart who was the daughter of James VI of Scotland/ I of England, and Anne of Denmark. Elizabeth married Frederick V, Elector Palatine of the Rhine. Their younger daughter, Sophia of Hanover, became heir presumptive to the British throne, which led to a son of hers becoming George I of Great Britain — the beginning of the largely disreputable Hanover reign.

    • Seraphina says:

      Thank you for bringing that topic up. I was at the grocery store last night and a British woman works there. She and I chit chat and I had not seen her since the QE2 death.
      She is also from the area where Diana was from – and affirmed Diana’s blueblood outweighing Chuck’s royal blood. Diana brought British aristocracy into the bloodline and another reason why they needed her so much.

      • Jess says:

        The term Blue Blood* is almost equivalent to Aryan blood and English Rose isn’t too far behind. It’s heavily rooted in white supremacy.

        *I know the meaning behind the term and don’t feel like typing it out.

    • acb says:

      @Fortuona, this Jersey Girl read your words and thought, ‘how is the Royal Family related to Bruce Springsteen??’ thanks for the laugh!

  8. C-Shell says:

    The Fab Four appearance might not have been the first time W/K realized they “needed to up their game,” but it well might be the first time the rest of the world saw the stark contrast between the charisma and capabilities of Meghan (and Harry) and the Lamebridges. To that extent, I’ll spot Nicholl for some truth in her fanfic. Anyway, in that pic of the new Fab Four, Camilla looks far classier and more elegant than KKKHate in her Christmas tinsel frock.

    • s808 says:

      I hate that look so much it’s so tacky. She looks like she got lost on the way to the CMAs. Or Real Housewife of Orange County on her way to a reunion episode.

    • Tessa says:

      I do not get how Charles would be jealous of superficial Kate and her wearing that glittery gown which was not all that I doubt he is jealous of kate

      • Lorelei says:

        It seems he’s lived his life angry about being “overshadowed” by anyone in the family aside from his mother. It’s not because Kate was so fabulous or a threat to him (lol), he just doesn’t like seeing super popular non-heirs, and never has ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

    • NYC212 says:

      Charles was well aware that Diana’s blood was bluer than his and he resented her for that too. Diana used to derisively call the BRF “the Germans” when speaking of them.

  9. Rapunzel says:

    “That was a wake-up moment for William and Kate when they realized that Meghan was very impressive, very confident, and very capable.”

    This sounds like the Keens thought Meg was just a vapid Hollywood airhead who would be shy about becoming royal. Then they discovered she was the real deal. So…I guess we now know when Will started worrying that Harry was moving too fast.

    • Lorelei says:

      @Rapunzel, that was my initial reaction as well, but you just KNOW that Kate googled Meghan the moment she learned that Harry was seeing her, and there was already *a lot* out there that would have intimidated Kate way before the engagement.

      For starters, the Procter & Gamble campaign at age 11, then going on to have a successful career, then racking up millions of followers of The Tig, THEN M’s involvement with One Young World (and I’m sure I’m forgetting tons of other things).

      In 2015 alone, she was named a UN Women’s Advocate for Women’s Political Participation and Leadership, then made that speech at the UN on International Women’s Day. (That one REALLY must have triggered Kate— seeing what an excellent public speaker Meghan is— especially when you consider how poorly Kate performs whenever she speaks to a group. And I’d bet my life she watched it on YouTube as soon as Harry mentioned Meghan.)

      If I’d been Kate and saw all of this, I would have been terrified since day one.

      Maybe Kate realized at that panel that Meghan was *not* going to shut up and become a mute clothes hanger once she married into the BRF? Kate might have been under the impression that M would give up all of that, since she did shut down The Tig before the engagement.

      But if Kate truly did not realize until that day that Meghan was going to present a HUGE problem for her, she’s even dumber than I thought.

      • Lorelei says:

        Too late to edit, but I think that all of that is true for William as well, and he knew that his wife would *not* fare well in comparison to his brother’s (to say the least!).

      • Rapunzel says:

        Lorelei- I think Kate probably didn’t care much about Meghan before the engagement. Remember the Laineygossip story (which we know Lainey had inside dope on, so it’s true) about Kate not giving Meg a ride even though they were going the same place? You’d think if she’d been interested enough to Google her, that she’d want to also spend time with her to really gage the competition.

        My feeling is that Kate hates most other women and is only interested in whether they look better than her or get more attention. But she probably doesn’t think of any other woman’s achievements, because achievements don’t matter to her, just looks and adoration.

      • Becks1 says:

        I honestly don’t know how much googling or research Kate did into Meghan at the beginning. Carole certainly did, but for Kate that would have taken too much effort. I also think she was really convinced that Meghan was a temporary thing and that even if she wasn’t, it was okay because Kate was still obviously superior.

        When that superiority was longer obvious, Kate went into “attack and destroy” mode.

      • Andrea says:

        @Rapunzel I think Kate may be an alpha female like my mother. My mother wants to be the top female around. She has never had any sustainable female friendships (she is 73) and told me she was physically and verbally abusive to me as a child because I am in competition with her for my father’s love (only child). As an adult, you see this constantly with her criticizing my hair, clothes, cooking because she has to be the best in comparison. There are signs of this with Kate with the cosplaying etc. However, like my mom, she is in a toxic relationship and isnt winning anything.

      • Sunday says:

        I honestly think that the minute Will and Kate learned that Meghan was a biracial American divorcee they assumed that she was a complete nonstarter and therefore there was no need to worry about her. I think a huge part of the problem has always been their resentment and disbelief that they’re even in this situation, because to them being forced to compete with someone they deem so beneath them in so many ways is an affront to every fiber of their being.

        I do think that this event was a “wake up call” in that we know at this point they were already working behind the scenes to make Meghan’s life as difficult as possible in an effort to drive her away and stop the wedding, but that was taking too long and they hadn’t counted on being made to look like fools in the meantime. It’s interesting to consider the timing here pre-wedding – was this around the time Thomas and Samantha started their shenanigans? I’m one of those who believe that Will, Kate and the henchmen at KP orchestrated all the drama with Meghan’s family in a drastic effort to stop the wedding, and I can see this event being either the catalyst behind that effort or at least more motivation to ramp up their machinations.

    • FhMom says:

      Part of the problem the RF had with Meghan is that she actually wants to do something good with her platform. She is intelligent, articulate and prepared. There is a pecking order in the RF and nobody is allowed to outshine those at the top of the order. Meghan outshined them all. After Diana, they swore never again.

      • HuffnPuff says:

        Exactly! Meghan wasn’t interested in being a wallflower royal just showing up to shake hands and coo over babies. She was under the false impression that being a patron of a charity meant that you rolled up your sleeves and pitched in. Meghan’s take not only would have overshadowed the others but would have further highlighted how outdated and unnecessary the others are.

    • Nic919 says:

      Kate was a bitch to Meghan from the very first time she was staying in London with Harry. She knew Meghan was a threat to her because she’s prettier, smarter and more charismatic than Kate could ever be. If there is one thing Carole Middleton trained her daughter to do that is to identify threats to their own territory. Meghan was a threat to kate being the only young and pretty royal and kate knew this right away.

      It’s not like William or kate ever showed public support toward Meghan prior to this event and to this day I don’t think either have spoken her name in public.

      The Fab Four event was simply the first time the Cambridges were publicly exposed as being mediocre and dull. At that point it became obvious to the world that Meghan had a wow factor that was as close to Diana as there had ever been. That’s what both of them hated.

      Harry had charisma himself, but he played along supporting the lazy duo until he met Meghan and he realized that he didn’t want to support them anymore. He was a team with Meghan and that was another threat for the two mediocre ones.

  10. girl_ninja says:

    Charles is the root of the problem in all of this. His jealousy of anyone more popular than him is pathetic. What a damn loser. And Kate could never and WILL never be on Meghan’s level in ANY way. She doesn’t have the skill and she doesn’t have the work ethic to gain that skill.

    Pathetic the lot of them.

  11. s808 says:

    I looked back on old CB stories from when Meghan came on the scene and you folks 1000% called it re: Kate’s reaction. I used to think it was sad that she (& W) couldn’t see the bigger picture and team up with H&M but I’m actually happy with the way things worked out. Royal life seems stifling and both H&M seem so much happier.

  12. Tessa says:

    Kate had ten years to up her game before will proposed she could have gotten a master’s in child psychology and maybe written articles she could have taken public speaking lessons it is all on kate if she felt inadequate it is all on her it also was not too late to go In for del improvement instead of waging a campaign against meghan

    • Lady D says:

      If it was me, the first thing I would do is sign up for is a Toast Masters course to learn to speak effectively in public. It’s the job. I truly don’t understand why she is okay mumbling and muttering her way through a speech that needs subtitles when it’s televised. How is she not so embarrassed by her inability to speak publicly that it isn’t motivating her to do better? She has years of speeches in front of her, will all of them be mumbled?

    • Eurydice says:

      Alternatively, she could have built on the degree she already has. Granted, art history doesn’t sound as worthy as Early Childhood Whatever, but she could have applied it to art education for children, or art therapy, or in supporting new artists. There are dozens of creative ways she could use her degree to support good works.

      • Sunday says:

        @Eurydice to your point, art history may not be as potentially substantive as a focus on early childhood, but it’s markedly less political and so to me seems like such a more natural area to lean into. Sooner or later anything meaningful related to early childhood would delve into available resources, poverty, education structures, etc, and royals are supposed to talk about exactly zero of that. Art is political of course (depending on the meaning behind each piece, the artist, etc), but it’s so much easier to sidestep those conversations by focusing on lifting up UK and commonwealth artists, art therapy, interesting techniques and trends, “sharing” the British collection, etc. It seems like such a no-brainer, and yet instead we get a “center” that exists only in Kate’s mind and her actual art charities closing due to bankruptcy.

      • notasugarhere says:

        Given Kate’s love of racist art AND massive repatriation efforts going on in the art world? I don’t think Art History and promotion is apolitical. William had to be slapped down publicly when he said he would destroy every piece of ivory in the Royal Collection, because he’s too stupid to understand the Royal Collection doesn’t belong to the Windsors personally.

  13. equality says:

    If they were looking at upping their game, why is there no evidence of it after H&M left? And if they actually cared about their mental health initiative it wouldn’t have mattered to them that it was Meghan (or anyone else) who brought attention to the cause. She is basically outing them as being all about appearances. Is she too thick to realize that or is it intentional?

    • Eurydice says:

      I think it’s laziness. Most tabloid writing is just rehashing the same narrative. In this case, Kate is learning, she’s listening, she’s preparing, etc.

    • First comment says:

      I’s their laziness… after all, why bother, if the RR is doing it for them? Side note: They surely upped their social media game which manages to give the impression that they are working more…

  14. ThatsNotOkay says:

    Kate had to up her game, blah, blah, blah. We know. Except instead of becoming learned, engaged, and interesting, she became petty, jealous, and vindictive. Takes after both Carole AND Camilla.

  15. Miranda says:

    I only became interested in the BRF when Meghan came along, because like many, I thought it was great that an American WoC was joining the family. And from that point on, she just never failed to impress me, especially with the way she refused to dim her light. In the face of all the bullying and smearing and flat-out racism, she held her head high (even when, as we later learned, she was at a terrifyingly low point emotionally and mentally). Frankly, I would’ve been a little intimidated by her, too. But the real problem was how they responded to that. The smart thing would’ve been to show a little humility and follow her lead. Kate could’ve asked her for some tips on public speaking and interacting with the public, and I’m sure Meghan would’ve happily obliged — even if she didn’t particularly care for Kate, being as civil as possible (within reason, of course) with your in-laws is part of your marriage. But this sad, petty family chose to harass and abuse her instead, and ended up losing the royal couple who were best-equipped to modernize the monarchy. They’re their own worst enemy.

    • Emily_C says:

      I would have started following Meghan around like an overeager puppy. She would have had to have a gentle talk with me about space. I just don’t get these people — no, you aren’t as gorgeous and charismatic as Meghan, but so what? You get to be her sister-in-law! The copykeening is the only thing I can understand about Kate, but copykeening while hating Meghan, not at all.

    • Debbie says:

      Ah, but then again, we’re talking about Kate. The same woman who was married into the BRF for years, and knew about Diana, but in all that time — even before the advent of Meghan — Kate only chose to copy Diana’s… clothes. Not her work ethic, not her curiosity and concern about people. So, I guess at least Kate is consistent.

  16. Becks1 says:

    I think that panel was a wakeup call, when it hit Kate and William that Meghan was going to be more of an “issue” for them than someone like Cressida Bonas, but I think Kate still thought she would win, she was going to have another baby which would get her lots of good press etc. So she was on edge (and had been on edge before that like Kaiser mentioned) but then I think the final nail in the coffin, so to speak, was the double whammy of the pregnancy announcement and the hugely successful Oceania tour. I think that was triggering for a LOT of people in the Firm, Kate among them. That was when she realized that people didn’t love her and respond to her the way they did Meghan and Harry, even if she were to keep popping out kids.

    • ML says:

      @Becks, That’s a really good point: the “Fab 4” event might have jolted W&K into awareness of their shortcomings, but things got incredibly nasty with M’s pregnancy and the Oceania tour. Up to that point, Kate earned praise for her pregnancies, and she probably realized at that point she and William wouldn’t be having any more children and she couldn’t compete with M there. And the tour cemented Meghan and Harry’s ability to shine in public. I think you’re right.

    • Debbie says:

      You make a good point because I avidly followed the Sussexes’ Ocean Tour, there were wall-to-wall updates in the US, the BM, and I’m sure in the different countries hosting H & M. (And I’m someone who never followed the BRF before. I was aware of Diana but that’s it. Didn’t even know Charles had siblings). So, I imagine it MUST have been irritating for W & K to see the Sussexes in the media so much in the run up to their wedding, and after their wedding. Then, knowing that there would soon be a wee baby for the Sussexes. Oh yeah, I can understand the Cambridges panic in those days.

    • Sunday says:

      I agree that the Oceania tour/pregnancy announcement was the big turning point, but maybe that was when Charles got involved with the smear campaign? I do think this event was when Will and Kate decided they needed to stop the wedding and enlisted bad dad to do so. Scammy and her relatives were already piping up in January, but Thomas didn’t really seem to get involved in an overtly negative way until Feb/Mar/Apr, after this event. We know that Thomas himself mentioned Knauf by name on Australian tv; he’s not savvy enough to make that insinuation without there being any truth in it. Knauf’s involvement points directly to Will, and I think the timeline sort of lines up.

      IMO it’s possible that before this event Will and Kate were confident that the wedding wouldn’t happen, or didn’t really care if it did, and that after this they were offended they had to actually compete for attention and lashed out in order to prevent the wedding by any means possible. Then the double whammy of the tour and the pregnancy announcement made everyone kick their efforts into high gear (and possibly made Charles enter the fray) because they saw how immensely popular Meghan and Harry were and knew that a child would make them even more popular and mean that Meghan would always be tied to their family one way or another.

      • aftershocks says:

        ^^ @Sunday, by “this event,” you must mean the February 2018 Royal Foundation ‘fab4’ on-stage discussion, not the Fall 2018 Oceania Tour.

        Interestingly, at the time I counted total length of time each of them spoke. William spoke the most minutes, not even including his intro remarks; Harry spoke the second most minutes; Khate spoke the third most minutes; and Meg spoke the least, and mainly when addressed by the moderator. Thus, amazingly, despite all the off-base critiques, Meg spoke the least amount of minutes, but she was the most succinct, efficient and memorable speaker, alongside Harry! W&K are the ones who spoke in ineffective, non-memorable word salads. LOL! 🤣😆

  17. sparrow says:

    Did it really take that long for her to realise that she is quite bland? (Although, to be fair, who comes up with the lightbulb moment “I’m dull!?) I mean more, didn’t she ever realise that her character isn’t explosively charming, able to communicate or show much interest in others, or in the least bit driven. This is where I have sympathy for Kate Middleton. Hear me out! She spent her whole life pressured, and perhaps willingly so, into pursuing a man who obviously didn’t want her, hence the pursuit. The conversation around her must have been a constant drone of William this, William that. She eventually won the prize but lost the war in terms of opportunities for growth, ie work and life beyond William and her family. She also seems to have lost self awareness in the process. She isn’t a great, vibrant personality; only her family would think so, and they prevented her from exposure of her character out in the real world where she might have learnt about herself and her character traits. I think she would have made a great administrator, something like that; that’s not putting her down, it’s a fundamental and rewarding job. Given how loaded her family is, however, and how lazy she had become from her late teens on, I imagine she would actually have been a home body and home maker, spending on clothes and holidays. Again, nothing essentially wrong with that (you’d cross fingers that she would be charitable). This sheltering has not only made her uninteresting but skewed in her beliefs towards other women, whom she sees as threats not colleagues and friends.

    • Alexandria says:

      I have no sympathy for her now. The little I had disappeared when she did the PR stunt at that vigil and when her uncle and mother shaded Meghan. She can give as good as she gets and is a spiteful mean girl who is capable of her own volition. She’s not some weakling, well except when she succumbs to her damn jealousy.

      Sure she can be a homemaker if she’s a private citizen.

      • sparrow says:

        That’s my point, Alexandria. She should have not had any interest in William, stayed a private citizen with her little minded self at home and taken on a role where she could have learned about the world of work and other people. This would have been in her teens and 20s. She wasn’t and isn’t cut out for a public role, esp of this magnitude. She is dull and has opinions that I can imagine were popular in her household but disgusting elsewhere, and these have guided her very poor behaviour. I am no fan. Never have been. I wish she had the personal strength now to leave William; get out of the royal family; get a house; tell her mother to leave her alone; and most of all apologise, publicly and profusely, for the things she has done, not only to Meghan but her brother in law, inc telling the truth of all the crap lies she put out there. She’ll never do it.

      • Eurydice says:

        @sparrow – she’s perfectly acceptable for her primary role in the RF, which was to produce children. We have an exalted view of what’s necessary for the monarchy, but really, mediocrity is the norm for the RF. Those who have shone, with ambitions to be truly useful, have been stamped out. Kate is exactly what they want (even if she’s not exactly what William wants) and she’s exactly what the royalists in the UK want – a “homemaker with a title,” even though homemakers do much more work than she’s ever asked to do.

  18. Emily_C says:

    If Kate were the kind of person who ever wanted to up her game, both Charles and Will would have knives out for her in a massive way. They’re both stupidly jealous, and cannot understand that someone connected to them looking good makes them look good. Charles is especially bad about this. I think it’s why he’s been so happy since his mother died. I also think it’s why he chose Camilla, who shines about as bright as a rusty coffin nail.

  19. Alexandria says:

    When I heard Meghan speak in that panel (it was my first time hearing her speak) I was very shocked. That’s when I knew Meghan was going to be my female role model and how WK paled far in comparison with their word salad and performative service. It was immediately clear Meghan did her research and homework. Harry is not as articulate but he definitely showed passion instead of passive keenness to listen and learn.

    Also can Peggy sit any further away from his pregnant wife? Sheesh.

    • reggie says:

      The closeness of H&M vs. the space between W&K always caught my eye at this event. It is the same as in the engagement videos. H&M could not squeeze a atom of oxygen between them and they could not stop touching each other. W&K have a pillow separating them and it never shifts; they remain separated and almost never touching for the entirety of telling the world how happy they are to be engaged.

  20. Brassy Rebel says:

    It’s nearly five years later and they’ve driven Harry and Meghan out of the country, but they still haven’t “upped their game”. They’re the same bland, boring, lazy pair they were when Kate was “heavily pregnant” and getting put in the shadows by charismatic Meghan.

    As for “caretaker Charles”, LMAO.

  21. SH says:

    Yes, it shouldn’t be lost that Mama Middleton treated Meghan as a threat from day 1 and made sure Kate saw her that way too. Mama Mid used her tabloid contacts to start a smear campaign long before Willie and then Charles got involved. Perhaps unsurprising that a woman focused on advancing her daughters social status archaically through marriage saw Meghan as a threat.

    • sparrow says:

      Exactly my point above. Carole Middleton has, in a way, ruined her daughter’s life by pushing her into a role unsuited to her and manipulating everything she has done pre and post William. I’m not saying Kate isn’t complicit, she is, but by god that mother is vile and must have gone mad the day Meghan turned up because she knew this woman would outshine her daughter, not by design but just by being. I am sure Carole Middleton is the one who has the editors on her phone and Kate is the one who feeds her the crap.

  22. Amy Bee says:

    I agree with Kaiser. Kate saw Meghan was a threat long before the Royal Foundation forum. I’d guess it was the moment see meet her.

  23. Kit says:

    On Megan first engagement on walkabout, l remember Kate was magically pictured at a train station the same afternoon and l remember saying to myself ohhhhh she not going to like this !!!!!!

  24. The Duchess says:

    Kate didn’t up her game in terms of work ethic, she upped her game in smearing and mean-girling. Meghan was a substantial threat to her and had to be ‘removed’ in Kate’s eyes. All that’s left to say is… was it worth it, Kate? Was it really worth it?

    • L4Frimaire says:

      Why do I get the impression that Kate and William got everything they wanted but still not satisfied. They have the titles and the money with it and she’s going to be queen. Meghan and Harry are gone and Meghan’s reputation is impugned to the point she’s a polarizing figure in the culture wars. All this but they’re still over there going on every day about how threatened the royals were by her or dissecting every word and gesture of hers. They really want M hurt and humiliated and treat Harry like he is a trophy to be recovered. I don’t understand it and it’s very upsetting and disturbing.

      • Deering24 says:

        L4FRIMAIRE, because people like W&K can never be satisfied. It’s the curse of greed that it keeps you always wanting–and unsatisfied when you finally get what you (think) you want.

      • windyriver says:

        I agree overall with @Deering24, but more specifically, Kate and Will have the titles and the money, but not the acclaim, which they also want (they’re still easily outshone by H&M, even with them out of the country). However, I do think at least part of the continuing vendetta against H&M is generated by the RR and the BM, because it makes them money.

        I think Will wants to be respected and admired, while I’m pretty sure Kate basically just wants to be the center of attention everywhere, and the competition with H&M is still there, now not just locally, but globally. (I also think Will will be happiest being POW rather than king – perks without the responsibility – while Kate can’t wait til the day she can lord it over everyone as QC, if she and the monarchy are still around.)

        And finally, every indication is that their marriage has been crap for a long time, and that hasn’t changed, and that has to be an ongoing source of tension and unhappiness. Money and titles were never going to fix that.

  25. Jen says:

    I thought Charles funded Kate’s wardrobe via his duchy of Cornwall income, so how does that fit in with the notion he was jealous of the attention on her clothing? Couldn’t he have simply slashed her clothing budget?

  26. Lizzie Bennett says:

    Everyone trashes Meghan – she’s evil, she controls Harry, etc. but no one denies she’s intelligent, hardworking, charismatic and acknowledges how intimidated W&K are by her. Do these royal commentators realize how easily we can read the truth behind what they print? SMH these people

  27. Southern Fried says:

    Meghan would have been Kate’s biggest champion and best friend. Caught up in so much mean & ugly though Kate ruined what could have been one of the best things to happen to her.

    • notasugarhere says:

      I doubt Meghan and Kate would have been friends. Meghan saw early on that there’s nothing ‘there’ to Kate, nor would Kate have been interested in a friendship (Kate doesn’t have friends). They could have been working colleagues, if Kate and her mummy hadn’t attacked Meghan from the start. Meghan’s friends in general are intelligent, hard-working, dedicated professionals – nothing like Keen. Kate made it clear in 2016, with the nasty shopping incident, that she had no interest in working well or living peacefully with Meghan in any way.

  28. molly says:

    Oooh, I remember all the drama around Pippa’s wedding. “She can come.” … “JK, marrieds only! (She’s too popular)”

    Meghan probably let that go because she’s gracious like that, but it was definitely a pattern of behavior with the Middletons screwing over Meghan.

  29. Vanessa says:

    Kate hated Meghan on site I believe kate didn’t like Meghan from the very beginning and William was neutral until they did that panel . That’s when William realize how smart charismatic Meghan was from then now William and Kate made it there life mission to get rid of Meghan . I don’t think Charles was ever jealous of Kate That wishful thinking on Kate part Charles just tolerate her and doesn’t see her as threat to anything. I think William still doesn’t like Meghan his only regret is that Harry left with Meghan and now he do more work .

    • Nic919 says:

      I agree with this. Kate was already concerned about Meghan from the moment she arrived. William didn’t notice until the Fab Four event where it was obvious and public that Meghan outshone them all. Harry was ok with that and proud of it. The other two not so much.

      Someone should examine when the tabloids start talking to Thomas Markle, because I suspect Knauf was behind that and through him William.

      • Heyhey22 says:

        I believe they were as well @Nic919

        In fact they are also behind Scammy as well. There needs to be an audit on where ALL their funds actually go towards one day.

      • Sunday says:

        @Nic919 omg yes! I commented that above; I think Scammy was already blabbing in January, but Thomas started to become more prominent in Feb/Mar/Apr. We know that he mentioned Knauf by name on Australian tv, and I don’t think he would’ve been able to make that up on his own, I think there was truth behind it. I would absolutely believe that Kate hated Meghan on site, but that Kate and Will never really thought the wedding would actually happen because of Meghan being a biracial American divorcee. They thought she was a nonstarter as Harry’s wife and just a temporary annoyance. As the wedding approached, being publicly outshone at this event became unacceptable to them and they ramped up their efforts by enlisting bad dad.

  30. TangerineTree says:

    I read this a bit differently – as K being now embarrassed of her former coat dress fashion. I don’t think Charles has been jealous of K’s attention – by the time she showed up he knew a younger woman’s fashion choices would draw a certain amount of interest. But up close and personal, he saw how far K would go to humiliate herself as she desperately tried to join the RF. Also, she had no plans beyond that so there was nothing actually to worry about with this woman. His current wife humiliated her own husband and children for years as she chased Charles, so he knew what that looked like. I think this is K looking to blame her bland fashion and her laziness over the years on Charles “K held back as she never wanted to steal the spotlight away from Charles.”

    • Andrea says:

      Kate lacks substance. She will never have what Meghan has.

      • aftershocks says:

        ^^ LOL! Nor does Meghan need either of those titles, nor any royal title to shine, to lead, to inspire, and to be one of the most admired and emulated women in the world (albeit also one of the most accomplished and hated by jealous derangers)!

        Khate, OTOH, needs the titles and the tiaras to feel good about her copy-keening limitations, including her lack of substance, her lack of self-knowledge, her overwhelming ignorance, and her complete lack of authenticity.

      • Nic919 says:

        The Queen mother made it to consort and was a drunk and a massive racist.

        Is this the substance awaiting Kate? She’s got one of those down already.

      • Emily_C says:

        It always amuses me when Brits think others care about their silly titles. As if those titles matter to the rest of the world. Do they even matter to most Brits? It’s made-up meaningless nonsense. This one family has tons of wealth and power because their ancestors were a bunch of violent thugs, and the silly labels are supposed to make it better somehow. Ridiculous.

    • Sunday says:

      I dunno, Charles is a petty immature a-hole, so I can sort of believe it. A normal person would accept that it’s natural a huge royal wedding and young new wife would garner a lot of attention, but Charles isn’t normal, he’s one of the most entitled, privileged people on the planet. I can absolutely see him being irrationally jealous of Will and Kate post-wedding.

      I also think it’s interesting within that framing to consider their decision to “step back” for a few years after their wedding – maybe they knew that Charles was jealous and they (not being independently motivated to work anyway) decided that the best way to play nice was to fade into the background. Then, when Harry and Meghan went public, their egos wouldn’t let them be overshadowed, and here we are.

      • Tessa says:

        I do not think Charles is responsible for.will and Kate avoiding work Kate had no real work or career or supported herself in the years leading up to the engagement Charles actively urged will to take up duchy of cornwall work will apparently did not even complete the course involved

  31. Well Wisher says:

    What are the results of the ‘upped’ game?
    The results are in on the New Wales’s dirty tricks and in my humble opinion, said results were not worth the time and effort.
    The Wales always have the spotlight due to their status, their problem was that eyeballs tend to look at the limelight – the next ‘thing, person, trend’.
    No one person can hold it for a lifetime and have a livable existence.

  32. QuiteContrary says:

    I’m sure Kate was intimidated by not only how polished and smart Meghan is, but by how authentic Meghan is. Kate is the antithesis of authenticity.

    And I still think that Kate at the Bond premiere looks like Chandler’s dad in the “Friends” episode in which Chandler and Monica got married (their hairstyles are so similar LOL).

    • Lizzie says:

      IIRC Tatler has spilled the tea that Khate and mom were very worried that Meghan’s beauty would overshadow Khate when she and Harry were dating. Khate was after Meghan from the start. William probably realized she was overshadowing him either at this event or the Oceana tour (not sure which was first).
      I thought Khate looked like Princess Margaret at the Bond premier, but I definitely see Chandlers dad, LOL.

      • Tessa says:

        Princess Margaret dressed elegantly and would not have chosen the glitzy gold gown that kate wore and Margaret hair styles were so much better than Kate’s

      • Nic919 says:

        Kate looked like a second rate character from the 80s show Dynasty.

  33. Lizzie says:

    Well if Cathy had spent her Waity decade doing something besides ‘being available’ for Bill, she might also be polished and capable. But she chose not to so there you have it. She basically stopped development at 20.

    • sparrow says:

      Yes, my point entirely. She is like an embryo in that regard. Those years when she could have been out working, meeting people, and developing her own mind and voice rather than waiting round for a call from William. What wasted years. Even building an independent life away from the very wealthy bank of mum and dad would have been useful. Didn’t she have a job at Jigsaw, some kind of sham thing where she could mill about and wait for William to phone. So much she could have done. She could have chosen to do nothing, of course, but at least be nice to others. She has been brought up to fear first when it comes to other women.

  34. Isabella says:

    They are trying to push this again: “He also had been hurt by not seeing as much of his Cambridge grandchildren as he might have liked.” As if he’s cared about his grandkids. And isn’t threatening to lift the titles for the mixed race ones.

    • Sunday says:

      That story reeks of Charles’ own PR. It’s exactly in the same tone as the stories about how “hurt” Charles is by not getting to see Lili, missing Archie, etc. Knowing that it’s a Charles tactic to passive aggressively lash out at his target and garner sympathy for himself, it’s interesting that he was using that against the cambridges at the time. I sort of view it as evidence of Charles and Will/Kate swiping at each other via the media, until the Sussexes emerged and they decided to join forces in an attempt to bring Harry and Meghan down.

  35. Kate is not at par with Meghan. Kate lacks substance and has no charisma and appeal. She’s dull as ditchwater. She is like her husband William. These two unexciting people deserve each other .

  36. JRenee says:

    What year was Kate out shopping and drove past Meghan without stopping? I’m sure it was before the engagement, correct? She was already mean girling Meghan, already envious of how Harry loved up and threatened by her poise and eagerness to put in real work..

  37. Heyhey22 says:

    I believe they were as well @Nic919

    In fact they are also behind Scammy as well. There needs to be an audit on where ALL their funds actually go towards one day.

  38. Lionel says:

    So this morning I finally watched that 2018 Royal Foundation panel discussion on YouTube. (The clip I saw was about 22 minutes, so I’m assuming there isn’t a longer clip out there, LMK if there’s something I missed.) I watched with the benefit of hindsight and with a critical eye to see if I could spot the trouble. I just did NOT see anything that would cause a huge rift in the family. Sure, Meghan and Harry had more concrete ideas about how to effect change, Harry in particular had better examples than the others, but William and Kate did fine. William talked about men’s mental health, Kate talked about early childhood, neither of them appeared likely to light the world on fire with their ideas, but at least they played their roles competently. (I’ve seen Kate do a lot worse, she actually seemed OK to me here.) Meghan was watching them speak with what looked to me like an encouraging smile, nodding at various points, hearkening back to them in some of her own comments. She seemed enthusiastic about the whole endeavor in a way that didn’t at all suggest she wanted to outshine or outperform them. She made points about being new, wanting to stay behind the scenes for a bit, being busy planning a wedding … in fact she was everything you’d hope for in an excited newcomer to a group: enthusiastic and excited, but also recognizing her role as a supportive newcomer for the time being.

    Obviously I’m not commenting on what any of them were or were not doing behind the scenes for the Foundation, or any other personal stuff that might have happened between them. I’m just saying that everyone points to this event as the beginning of the end, or as some kind of proof that none of the others could compete with Meghan’s star power. Yes she has more charisma than the other three put together but, to my eye anyway, she didn’t say or do anything to cause offense or even to inadvertently outshine them. She was just like “Yay! I’m new! You’re all doing great! I care about these things and I can’t wait to get involved! Gotta get married first!” Can anyone explain how that specific event was the precipitating factor that put all the ugliness to come into motion?

    • Caribbean says:

      I believe that they (meaning William & Kate) did not think she would do well. They perhaps thought She would be intimidated by being in the presence of royalty on tv and while on tv. They are used to people of color (those they go around) being not from the best background- I am sure they do not have any well-to-do minority friends. they are used to disadvantaged minorities that they visit to show how much work they are doing. They were not prepared for someone that is confident, beautiful and (worst) outshining them.

    • Jaded says:

      It was because she was biracial, American, an actress and divorced. She didn’t know her *place*, and although she spoke intelligently and professionally, these attributes did not work in her favour. She stepped out of her lane, which would have been to act demure and self-effacing in front of such grand royal personages, not be confident and think she was actually an equal part of the group.

      • aftershocks says:

        ^^ 💯 🎯 Exactly @Jaded! I didn’t see your comments before my below post, which says essentially the same thing that you have articulated so well.

    • aftershocks says:

      ^^ @Lionel, it may not be that obvious to you, but it was clear at the end of the discussion that there were underlying tensions, somewhat laughed off in response to the moderator’s casual probing. Meg volunteered some sound and interesting words toward the end that clearly W&K were looking put-off about. Meg seemed to pick up on W&K’s sudden chill. When they exited the stage, Meg seemed nervous about whether to walk ahead with Harry or wait for W&K, who having entered the stage first, thus had to exit it last. LOL!

      Obviously, Meg more than held her own as a full participant, no matter how supportive, less talkative, and pleasant she also was. When she did speak, she wasn’t supposed to be so articulate and on-point. By just being herself and not even trying too hard, Meg outshone W&K.

      There was also some grumbling in the media afterward about Meg mentioning the ‘Me-Too’ movement in her remarks. One of Meg’s most memorable comments that still resonates: “Women don’t need to find a voice, they already have a voice. They just need to be empowered to use it.” 🌟

    • Deering24 says:

      Lionel, I would imagine that Meghan seeing herself on an equal footing with W&K was another kiss of death right there. Nothing gets racists more steamed than a non-white person acting like they are as “good” as everyone else.

      • Emily_C says:

        @Squared What a load of hooey. Meghan perfectly understood her public role. She AND HARRY seem to have thought the rank system was all pageantry, and that they’d be a somewhat normal, and human, family underneath it all. If Meghan and Harry were wrong about that, it’s not their fault, because who the hell could understand it?

        If Meghan did not understand that she was supposed to see herself as an inherently lesser person because of her husband’s birth order, her own gender (and come on don’t pretend race, class, and country of origin weren’t issues), that’s because it’s too stupid to be understood by anyone not brainwashed into it. Human beings have equal worth. Period.

  39. Deering24 says:

    Jeez, how dumb is Charles? Any king with sense would be delighted that their queen would get the public attention he obviously doesn’t really care for. And he’s petty over Kate?!? 🤣🤣🤣🙄🙄🙄

  40. Carolind says:

    Re Camilla and Charlotte, Camilla is not Charlotte’s grandmother. William has made it quite clear that Charlotte’s grandmothers are Carole Middleton and DIana. It would have been out of place for Camilla to hug Charlotte. Diana did wonders on the world stage unlike Kate Middleton, but the appearances of both Diana and Kate do detract from more important stuff such as when Diana chose to wear her hair up (after being told not to) at a State Opening of Parliament and all the attention was on her but not the Queen’s Speech. Just as Kate’s lightweight appearances this week are taking attention away from Sophie’s much more Important tour of the Congo and Anne’s visit to New York. It was widely reported and photographed in the media the then Prince Charles visiting his father during the Duke’s last hospital stay not long before he died and the Duke was reported then as having specially asked to see Charles to ask him to look after the Queen. Charles was photographed with tears in his eyes leaving the hospital. Charles was the one with the power in his family and is a compassionate man – despite being portrayed as a monster here. I wonder how many of us have had affairs / behaved badly at times?

    • equality says:

      Interesting that he shows none of his “compassion” when it comes to H&M and their children. And I’m sure if TQ’s speech at opening Parliament had been anything special, a hair-do certainly wouldn’t have taken attention away from it in any outlet besides maybe tabloids. People can focus on more than one item of news a day so anybody could read about Kate’s outings and follow Sophie’s tour also.

      • Carolind says:

        I actually happened to be living in the UK in the 1980s and saw all about the Queen’s speech and Diana’s haircut reported first hand. No matter what the Queen had said that day and you probably don’t know, but it was not her words but what Parliament was planning on doing the next session, such was Diana’s huge impact her hairstyle was deemed more important. It was absolutely huge news. As for Sophie’s visit, how can people know about it if it is not being reported? Only the trivial counts nowadays. As for his compassion, interesting you have an insider view on how he has treated H and M.

      • equality says:

        Unless all of UK media is like their tabloids (which I doubt having seen serious Brit media even in the US) I doubt that all reports were about Diana’s hair and nothing about Parliament. Isn’t the speech televised anyway where anyone can watch for himself? I have seen Sophie’s visit reported in the US and searching online just now found several articles about it, even in non-serious media. And how can one not see how KC treats H&M when his people leak things daily and PH has himself said various things. Interesting that you think you have such an insider view and nobody else’s view could possibly compare. Maybe you are only searching out the trivial if that’s all you are seeing.

    • My opinion says:

      Kc3 has sent staff to comment on a gossip blog🙄 things must be very shaky in the palace. Nice try but we have Diana’s own words about compassionate Charles🙄

    • HeatherC says:

      My best friend had a horrific childhood because of her father, an abusive POS. But when her grandmother died, his mother, he sobbed sincere tears. He’s still an abusive POS that still tries to abuse everyone around him. I wouldn’t describe him as compassionate

    • Jaded says:

      @Carolind: I doubt any of us have sunk to the levels of lying, gaslighting, manipulating, demeaning, cheating and outright coldness that Chuck and Camilla sunk to. They played Diana like a toy. Once she’d had the obligatory heir and spare she was shoved aside and treated like a pariah. None of us have an *insider view* of how H&M were treated, it was as obvious as the collective noses on our faces. To put Charles and “compassion” in the same sentence is ridiculous.

  41. Tessa says:

    Charles just did not have an affair he courted a 19 year old so he could marry and have royal babies with Camilla was complicit in choosing Diana and pretended to be her friend Camilla and Charles were in touch the whole time and Camilla went to sun editor Stuart Higgins to give her side of the story every week for ten years he left Diana after she had the royal babies sorry I do not see this man as a nice person he had a chance to redeem himself by being protective of Meghan and harry and imo failed miserably

  42. Carolind says:

    Regarding bloodlines and the royal family the aristocracy come immediately below royalty. George VI was the first British king to have an aristocratic as opposed to a royal wife. In former days it would not have been allowed. As for whom the present British Royal family is descended, in 1603 James VI of Scotland also became King of England as Elizabeth I (Elizabeth Tudor) had died leaving no issue. Her aunt, Margaret Tudor, had married James IV of Scotland and they were the parents of James V of Scotland, who was the father of Mary, Queen of Scots (Elizabeth’s cousin) who gave birth to James who went on to become James VI of Scotland and first of England. It was his granddaughter who was Sophia, Electress of Hanover who died just a fortnight before her son George inherited the British crown as George 1, so all the Stuarts, Tudors and all the rest still in there. The late Queen’s mother was from Scottish descent and the British crown is just as much Scottish as English and is a much truer representation of all the nation than merely the “English” aristocracy. I don’t know where the poor Welsh and Irish come in.

    • aftershocks says:

      ^^ There’s a bit of Irish on Diana’s maternal side, via the Fermoys.

      • notasugarhere says:

        With a pass through ‘American’ with Frances Ellen Work, one of those million dollar American princesses. Third son inherited the Fermoy title.

  43. B says:

    I guess there is a “new-not new” thing Quiet Quitting,” yeah, well the Keens are keen on it

    • Emily_C says:

      No, so-called “quiet quitting” means doing the job for which you are paid, and not three peoples’ jobs. It is the way work should be almost all the time. Will and Kate do nothing.

  44. My opinion says:

    I really wonder at what point did Cain and unable understand that Meghan was way out of their league??? We know harry took one look from across the room and knew he was punching way above his weight. I’m guessing they understood at hello, kkkaren must have shriveled inside while she furiously googled Meghan Markle and binge watched suits like the good stalker she is.

  45. Beverley says:

    Kkkate has never been Meghan’s equal and will NEVER be. For many white folks, that’s a hard pill to swallow. The human trafficking trade and colonization has had generations of white people believing they are *inherently* better than darker skinned people and being confronted by a POC who is educated, intelligent, and engaging goes against their “white superiority” complex. It’s psychologically and emotionally damaging for those white folks who see themselves as superior. Even more so for royals who believe they’re anointed by god.

    It must drive Kkkate to the point of mental breakdown to see how magnificent Meghan is, particularly in comparison to Khate’s mumbly, vacuous, mealy-mouth self. Doesn’t matter how much of the Queen’s jewelry Kkkate absconds with, she’s still a mean skank.

  46. Elle says:

    I agree with one of the comments above, waity was obsessed with Harry, she knew he was the real deal but she married the baldie to get the title. Harry has the best life now with a wife who adores him, she’s a terrible woman