The Duchess of Sussex’s new Archetypes podcast is out! This week’s episode is “Breaking Down the Bimbo with Paris Hilton.” This week, Meghan is talking about the “bimbo” and “dumb blonde” archetypes, the beautiful women cut down and undervalued by society for being “dumb.” I appreciate that Meghan acknowledges that women play into these tropes sometimes, and many women find ways to subvert the “bimbo” stereotype and profit from it.
I’m listening to the pod as I write this, and because I barely listen to Paris Hilton speak in recent years, I didn’t know that she had abandoned the sexy-baby voice. She’s using her real voice in this pod which is really nice. Here’s the pod:
Paris Hilton talks about the abuse she suffered at the private boarding school she was sent to at the age of 16, and where she lived for two years. It’s interesting to reposition the Paris Hilton we saw as a young adult and understand that she was still processing the trauma she went through at the boarding school – she survived the abuse by dreaming of the kind of the person she would become, how she would brand herself as a real-life Barbie to assume control of her life, so no one could control her.
Anyway, this is a good one – they’ve all been good. Meghan is a good interviewer. Paris tells Meghan that she (Meghan) comes across as a girl’s girl, which is true.
Photos courtesy of Backgrid, Spotify.
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- Milan, ITALY – Models backstage at the Versace “Spring/Summer 2023 Ready-to-Wear Collection” show during Milan Fashion Week (MLFW). Pictured: Paris Hilton BACKGRID USA 23 SEPTEMBER 2022 BYLINE MUST READ: Best Image / BACKGRID USA: +1 310 798 9111 / usasales@backgrid.com UK: +44 208 344 2007 / uksales@backgrid.com *UK Clients – Pictures Containing Children Please Pixelate Face Prior To Publication*
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- Los Angeles, CA – Media Personality and model Paris Hilton looks stunning as she makes an appearance at Maje store at the Grove. Pictured: Paris Hilton BACKGRID USA 12 OCTOBER 2022 BYLINE MUST READ: ShotbyNYP / BACKGRID USA: +1 310 798 9111 / usasales@backgrid.com UK: +44 208 344 2007 / uksales@backgrid.com *UK Clients – Pictures Containing Children Please Pixelate Face Prior To Publication*
I’m curious to listen to this week’s podcast because I really can’t stand Paris Hilton. I would have loved to see Meghan interview Dolly Parton on this topic, as Dolly is sort of the OG of this label/archetype (and I love Dolly Parton to bits). But I know Meghan has probably done such an amazing job (like with the previous pods) that I’ll probably be a Paris convert by the end. Looking forward to listening!
Same! I learned so much about Mariah Carey because of the podcast, and now I want to read her memoir.
I think that that is maybe exactly why she chose Paris Hilton. Because so many people have this strong feeling about her partly based on this stereotype and because she comes from a wealthy background.
agreed Chloe – Paris, like a lot of her complicated contemporaries including Lindsay, Britney, and Kim, defies easy categorization as a hero or villain and that makes a lot of people uncomfy but that’s why she’s a perfect subject for a podcast exploring that tension
a lot of people have brought up Dolly Parton as an alternative but she is wrong for this podcast precisely because her whole thing is putting people at ease by both conforming to the trope and winking that she’s not as dumb as she seems
no one actually believes Dolly inhabits any negative aspects of the bimbo/mean girl, but with Paris the line is blurrier
She should have gone with Christina Aguilera. Christina is a great example of a (blonde) woman who people categorized as a bimbo just because she dared to question the value of female modesty. There were people who resented her for presenting herself the way she did because she’s not someone they can dismiss as talentless. People like it when they can go on about how worthless and stupid an immodest woman is.
@Otaku fairy I completely disagree. Christina was slut-shamed but she was never perceived as dumb. She was cast as the wanton foil to Britney’s pure wholesomeness. Paris is perfect for this theme and I think even more so because she’s so insufferable. I’m having to do my own work to meet her story with empathy. It’s a good challenge to have.
I would’ve loved a sit down with Dolly Parton, who I think is profound and a master at having subverted this particular trope, for this episode. But she is mentioned, at least. Can’t wait for the Angry Black Woman ep. I know I’m not the only one.
Yes! I had no idea who Christina Aguilera was. First time I saw her was at some trendy night club style restaurant they were playing a video where she was wearing red under wear and doing these really provocative gyrations and I was shocked. It was borderline pornography. I’m not a prude at all but I was seeing someone who presented as a teenager being heavily sexualized beyond what was yet the norm. In that moment I realized we’d leveled up on sexualizing young girls, and I wasn’t wrong. The next decade…but now you look at her and she’s a woman, and she as rebelled against being the standard of underage sexuality. She has things to say.
No one thinks Christina is a bimbo. She has talent and has always had a voice. Even in the early 2000s, she wasn’t the bimbo. Also Dolly is brilliant and has been proven so for decades. Paris is the epitome of a dumb blonde trope: pretty, untalented, spoiled, “useless”. That is why she picked her.
Just adding my comment to the chorus about how Christina Aguilera never ever fit the bimbo archetype, that was a really random suggestion.
I disagree with Christina. I think if Paris couldn’t do the interview then maybe Jessica Simpson would have been a good choice. Or is that too obvious of a choice? Only suggesting because I had a lot of empathy for Jessica after reading her book.
I wonder how these interviews come to fruition. Does Meghan have a waitlist of people who want to do this? Like I am sure they all know of each other but do they really know each other before the recording session?
You’re right. Jessica Simpson would have made more sense.
I feel like Pamela Anderson would have been a good choice for this. Also, maybe Jenna Jameson, any Hugh Hefner girlfriend, and then finally – Emily Ratajkwoski.
I see all of the above women and Paris struggling so hard with the trauma they suffered at the hands of societal pressure – stereotyped as a bimbo due to looks, denied full personhood, and then, finally, I would imagine it’s hard to have self growth and awareness about the conundrum you are in when your job is dependent on being perceived as pretty but also dimmer.
Let’s face it – There are definitely benefits to women to playing up their youth, looks, their perceived femininity (boob job lips Botox etc)- they get paid more, more free things, more job offers, more friendships, just by virtue of being perceived as beautiful.
It’s a deal with the devil and one many women judge other women for 🙁 but also it doesn’t mean those women don’t make mistakes either? And then these “bimbo” women get abused by men. Sigh.
People keep assuming that Dolly would do the interview. Unlike her sister Stella, Dolly publicly stays away from controversial situations. She supports controversial people/initiatives in the background though. I could see her partner with Archewell but Meghan is a lightning rod for controversy (through no fault of her own) and I think her podcast would be pushing it. I would’ve loved a segment where Dolly was interviewed though.
That’s a great point about Dolly. She’s busy making sure school children have books and we’re all vaccinated. Drawing attention and controversy could limit her ability to quietly work for the good.
She has Paris Hilton on as a guest. In 2022. Other than Serena she can’t get big stars.
She also had Mindy Kaling and Mariah Carey. but yeah, no big stars.
Can’t stand Paris, she really has contributed nothing of value to society, but look forward to checking this out. I don’t buy that her bimbo image isn’t an act – I truly believe she’s stupid and vapid.
I really enjoyed this episode. Meghan managed humanise Paris. I really felt god her and appreciate the activism she does now.
What kind of activism does she talk about? She campaigned for Trump because she’s besties with Ivanka, so I’m genuinely curious.
@Bettyrose- she’s done some real activism against abusive boarding schools and in support of legislation like the Stop Institutional Child Abuse Act. She’s used her own experience to highlight the atrocities of these places, and it makes me sick to think how prevalent they still are today.
@Molly – That’s great. It’s the kind of situation where most victims are powerless, or at least that’s the assumption the abusers have, so change happens when someone with a platform gets involved.
Yeah, Paris plays into the dumb bimbo role a bit too much for my liking. I don’t really see her as someone who can challenge it.
As much as I don’t like her, unfortunately I can vet that she’s not a bimbo (she’s not a genius either, but definitely not dumb as people think she is). She played into the trope and made it part of her persona because it obviously brought in the $$. Don’t bite the hand that feeds you, Paris.
What I cannot get behind is the “woe is me” trope when going to school with her I can confirm she was a grade-A brat (as was her sister). This was right before she left for boarding school, so likely that humbled her.
i don’t doubt she is/was a grade-A brat, but what I like about this podcast is how it’s fleshing out that people are never just one thing, and that goes for her most recent rebrand, too
any good goss from your time in school?
@ElleV I honestly have no idea how they moved up at the time (now I know that the school was given a “donation”) they were never in class, never participated. I wasn’t deemed worthy to be their friends (my parents are firmly middle class).
When I ran into her 20 years later she basically brushed past that she wasn’t spoiled and still expected adoration. I didn’t acknowledge her the way she wanted and she wasn’t thrilled with me. No big loss on my end, since I heard filming her reality show was an unpleasant experience.
Was it a boarding school? I thought when this first came out her mother sent her there because she couldn’t control her. She was partying all the time and doing a lot of drugs. I thought this school was a lock down rehab to get teens under control. And that’s why there was no privacy. It was to keep them from sneaking drugs in. That’s why I never had much empathy for her for this. There were reasons she was being treated that way.
those places should not even be called “boarding schools.” they are incredibly abusive. the kids are kidnapped in the middle of the night by strangers and treated very roughly while they are there. they can’t escape because their parents paid a lot of money for the mistreatment. that is not what boarding school is.
once they turn 18 they can walk out the door, but not everyone does because they don’t realize it.
I have a friend who had a similar experience and who is still very traumatized as a result. what Paris described in her documentary lines up very closely with what my friend suffered. it’s simply a convenient way for rich people to have their unruly kids abused because they are too lazy to do it themselves.
I think they should be banned.
Did you watch the documentary about her experiences at that “boarding school”? Because to brand that has having a positive, humbling affect on her is NOT a good look.
@Stef, I’m with you— I’ve never been able to stand Paris, but want to listen to this episode with an open mind. Maybe she’ll totally surprise me!
I was listening to all the conversations surrounding this and remembered that at the height of the Paris phenomena, she was in her 20s. Then I think about my 20s. Consider myself a fairly intelligent, serious person, but back then had crappy jobs trying to get a foothold in my industry and frustrated I wasn’t being taken seriously or given more responsibility and then not able to always handle extra responsibility,lol. I could sometimes be messy and irresponsible. We partied, totally used our looks to our advantage, dated very inappropriate guys, and was sometimes rude and inconsiderate in ways I’d never be like now. So no, I’m not a Paris champion but I’m sure she’s grown and matured since her party girl days, a can still do better, but whether or not we admit it, we’ve all had our bimbo moments. Most of us mature and move out of it, some never do.
I saw the title of this episode this morning (basically the first thing I checked when I woke up, lol) and I am REALLY excited to listen to it. I saw that it was Paris talking about “bimbos” and I thought, this is going to be GOOD.
I was never a Paris fan, never watched that show she did with Nicole Richie (simple life?), etc. But I never bought into the idea that she was this dumb blonde either, it was just what worked for her at the time. So I am looking forward to listening to this.
Am with you that I never thought she was a dumb blonde – she made a lot of money off the blonde bimbo caricature she created for herself. The ‘Paris’ empire is still quite profitable.
I don’t mind Paris – she doesn’t take herself too seriously and has been known to poke fun at herself as well. She’s spoiled, entitled and can be bratty but she ain’t an idiot.
She’s also been pretty cruel toward others, not just spoiled and entitled. Wonder if she ever apologized to the people she put down and dehumanized or used. I’ll give this a listen by I’ll admit, my guard is way up.
I think its okay for your guard to be up. If Meghan really wants to get into some of these archetypes, she’s going to have to reach out to some people that are more controversial than others. I think Paris is a good pick for this particular conversation (haven’t listened yet though) but I don’t think it means that Meghan is excusing or validating her other behavior.
So we don’t know who is on for next week, right?
This was the weakest episode for me. Nothing against Paris, I was well aware a long time ago she wasn’t the least bit stupid (spoiled and entitled maybe, but never stupid). But they both admitted they were nervous around each other. Meghan admitting she had judged her in the past and Paris not sure if she could trust Meghan. Paris seemed very reticent to speak and Meghan was kind of feeding many prompt to her to get her to respond.
It just wasn’t the easy back and forth like the previous episodes.
I noticed this too, even Paris said that it was due to now having met before and feeling shy. I would feel intimidated too, maybe hesitant given the episode’s title.
Paris also, for all her efforts to make a show work by herself, just isn’t that charismatic. The simple life worked primarily because it was her and Nicole Richie. Everything she’s done on her own has been a flop.
Also – never forget that Paris has a history of bigotry and racism. That didn’t magically go away.
Also also – Mina Le, on YouTube, has some great videos on the history of the Femme Fatale and Marilyn Monroe that look into the Bimbo trope and, specifically, the blonde bimbo thing.
I’m going to check this episode out for Meghan, but I may not finish it. There are enough awesome women whose stories I admire who have hustled their way to success that Paris can remain on my Meh list.
Yeah, Paris was irritating enough hype-wise. But her bigotry was break-point for me. If she hasn’t come to grips with that major character flaw, forget it.
This reminded me of another great series on the bimbo trope, the You Must Remember This podcast. Karina Longworth did a series she called Dead Blondes, with episodes on Jean Harlow, Marilyn (of course), Jayne Mansfield, & others. Great series, interesting topic. Look forward to listening to this, too (even if it’s Paris Hilton).
Thank you! What I remember most about Paris was her vile racism and complete obliviousness to the value in “giving back”.
It’s possible that maybe it was recorded before the first episode launched, so Paris was a bit reticent, but now that she sees what it’s all about: how it’s being marketed, who the other guests are, etc., she’ll be reassured and possibly go on again at some point? I think by now she would completely trust Meghan, you know?
In Paris’s defense, she did explain that she wasn’t the most trusting person & was nervous around people she’d never met before. From someone who had gone through quite a bit of trauma, it made sense.
I’m going to skip this one. I have empathy for what Paris went through as a teenager, but I also remember a lot of pretty terrible things she has said and done, and don’t really have an interest in her at all. I’m a little surprised she’s one of the earlier guests on Meghan’s podcast, but I’m sure Meghan handles it all well.
Exactly. Think this was a misstep & I didn’t think Paris really added anything in comparison to other guests who have given amazing insights. Made this the weakest episode so far. Meghan shouted out Dolly Parton at one point & wished she had her as a guest on this topic instead.
But on another note for all the ‘insider’ reporting on Meghan & Harry’s projects it’s so funny how they can’t tell us who will be on the podcast outside from what Meghan told the cut.
Last week’s podcast was a heavy one, so I don’t think it’s a misstep to have a lighter one this week.
I think Dolly would have been too much of a safe choice for this trope now. She’s too universally adored and respected. The listener wouldn’t be challenged in any way. She needed to go with someone who went through 21st century misogyny as a young woman, although there were definitely better choices than Paris Hilton. Even though I can’t stand Paris, this should be interesting.
This was as much as misstep as Meghan’s cringe-inducing “Ellen” show interview and fell flat for me.
Don’t, it’s actually insightful and doesn’t defend Paris. It’s showing how women play into patriarchy by continuing to demonize other women for choices. Yes Paris is an ass, so what? We are allowed to be humans and have bad days, be cautious of people who are users, and not always be gracious. Where is this level of negativity towards Robert Downey Jr. Or Bill Murray? Theyve done far worse than a sex tape and being spoiled asses in public.
Good point about demo using women so much more than men. By the way her tape got leaked. Her older ex bf was predatory There is nothing anyone can hold against her about the tape unless you’re against premarital sex, or getting preyed on
I enjoyed this Podcast and also thought it was spot on in using Paris Hilton as a representative of the Dumb Blonde or Bimbo. Never really thought of her one way or the other but hearing her own how she used this trope to enhance her celebrity was interesting. Enjoyed also how Meghan owned being a Brief case girl on the show Deal or no Deal. Actually I thought it was brilliant having Hilton on someone who seemed to come out of left field. To me this is how you do a Podcast, you never know who to expect. So you are left with, expect the unexpected. I applaud the growth Meghan is displaying with these Podcast and I will continue to support her and her husband in any endeavor they choose to display the many gifts they have. As far as I have observed the Sussexes are in very good company. They fit right in with the best of the best as representatives for their generation.
I will listen to this. I think it’s worthwhile to hear what Paris has to say. Plus, Meghan understands what’s it’s like to be called a bimbo just because she was a Deal or no Deal girl which she’s alludes to in this podcast.
I’m looking for the next story out of the walls camp about Charlotte since Lili Diana was mentioned. There’s already one saying how Kate was 🤣 so nice to the staff while she was will girlfriend by a former butler 🙄. One that stated she can’t look at Louis anymore as a baby since he’s a Big boy. Scanning the rota to see when Charlotte name gets a mention so they can keep up with California
I mean Paris really, really plays into the trope hard. I think she almost keeps falling back into it as a form of protection? I can imagine it’s like putting on an act that she takes off once she is behind closed doors…until she makes another reality show about her next wedding or whatever and just lets all her entitled vapidity hang out again.
Like, I was really impressed with the Paris Hilton I met during her Youtube documentary. She was real, she was vulnerable and she was finally speaking on a topic that mattered. And then she sort of killed all of my goodwill with that stupid wedding show.
Pick a lane girl.
This.
Sorry not interested in hearing Paris complain about a trope she made a fortune playing into.
why shouldn’t she make a fortune playing into, though? Why do we expect “virtue” or women in a way that we don’t for men? Talking about a trope isn’t the same as complaining about it. Saying “I benefitted from this trope, I played into it, and this is what it gained for me and this is how it hurt me” is telling a story about complexity–something that our culture rarely acknowledges in women. Men have been unlikeable, have been anti-heroes, have leaned into stereotypes and benefited from them (hello Kanye, hello any dude who presents himself as subversive.) It’s not “poor me, I’m a bimbo victim.” To claim that that’s what Paris is doing here, or that Meghan is enabling that here, is patently false. Listen, don’t listen. But don’t accuse her of “complaining”. I don’t think Paris wants anyone’s sympathy.
@lanne. EXACTLY. Why is it so easy to dismiss women as “complaining”? Men do the same damn thing and it’s somehow bringing up a legitimate point, they’re showing us a new more complicated side, they are championing a cause, they are angry at injustice, ALL the GOOD reasons.
But a woman? You have to be perfect and if you ever dare to speak up, heaven help you if you have skeletons.
Would Meghan have this many supporters if she wasn’t such an unreal combo of Lisa Simpson intelligence, moral clarity and grit, but also with spectacular beauty and style to make the earnest do-goodering more palatable and less preachy?
The racists can’t handle that she’s black. How would many non-racists handle it if she weren’t beautiful?
It’s acceptable for a man, esp ESP a white man, to step into the light in sweats and warts and be accepted, farts and all.
A women in the light? Well she needs to DESERVE it. She needs to earn the right to be chosen and keep proving herself to retain the light, cause society (incl so many goddamn other women) are ready to cast her out for any blemish or flaw.
^^ You bring up great points @Lurker25! Lots of food for thought. Thanks for articulating!
I’m glad she chose Paris. Let’s not forget, she was very young when a man she trusted put their sex tape out there without her consent. This was before the K family used it as PR. I can see why she adopted a fake persona when so much of who she is was taken out her control.
Not to mention that was within a year or two of her boarding school abuse.
I’m kind of surprised Lindsay Lohan seems to have so much more goodwill than Paris. Although I suspect some of it stems from the exact point of this episode (and series as a whole), how we detract “value” from certain women.
I think it’s because Lindsay is a genuinely talented actress who starred in a couple of beloved films, including one when she was still a child (“Parent Trap”). Paris isn’t talented or charismatic and Lindsay is. Paris got where she is because she’s pretty, rich and connected.
I agree about Lindsay being talented and also she was a child star pushed into the entertainment industry by trashy parents.
As well, Lohan’s horrible family is what made her what she is, so the public felt sorry for her for a long time.
Lindsay Lohan was charismatic and decently talented. She was working for a living and being the family breadwinner as a kid. She paid for her wild partying, thrifty ways with her own money and sanity. She lacked family support and didnt receive a monetizable leg-up on public interest from being born into a mythical moguls’ dynasty. So Lindsay, trying to make it and enjoy her fame without Paris’ drive and exposure to social/business savviness; was regarded as sort the underdog everybody rooted for.
It’ is and was at the time illegal to sell pics/vids of someone having sex without their consent. Remember these tapes were sold by Vivid, not just put up on YouTube by the men.
Both she and Kim were involved with their tapes being released.
That’s not how I remembered it, so I checked wiki. Like her or not, that whole thing is revolting.
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The video was released by Salomon shortly after Hilton’s TV series The Simple Life debuted, causing a media sensation. When Hilton stated publicly that she had been “out of it”, did not know what she was doing during the taping of the video and did not approve its public release, Salomon sued Hilton for defamation. Hilton then countersued Salomon over the release of the tape, settling out of court in July 2005. According to reports, Hilton was awarded as much as $400,000 and planned to donate a percentage to charity.[3]
In a 2006 interview with the British edition of GQ magazine, Hilton stated: “I never received a dime from the video. It’s just dirty money and (Salomon) should give it all to some charity for the sexually abused or something. To be honest, I don’t even think about it any more.”[4]
The video received the AVN Awards in 2005 for “Best Selling Title of the Year”, “Best Renting Title of the Year” and “Best Overall Marketing Campaign – Individual Project”. The DVD titled 1 Night in Paris is distributed by Red Light District, a production company that produces and distributes pornographic videos. The rights to the video has since been purchased by Vivid Entertainment.[5]
The official release of the video opened with a dedication that states: “In memory of 9/11/01… We will never forget.”
American singer-songwriter P!nk parodied one of the scenes from the sex tape in her music video for her song “Stupid Girls”.[6]
In 2021 interview with Vanity Fair, Hilton said the tape, which was released without her consent and caused a media sensation, was “humiliating” and is “something that will hurt me for the rest of my life.”[7]
“It’s always there in the back of my mind. When it happened, people were so mean about it to me. The way that I was spoken about on nightly talk shows and the media, to see things with my family was just heartbreaking. I would be in tears every single day, I didn’t want to leave my house, I felt like my life was over,” she said.
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Revenge porn didn’t become illegal until 2012. Like seriously, she didn’t want this out and he admitted to selling it without her consent bc she dumped him and he needed money.
I’m looking forward to listening to this episode. I do not like Hilton At. All. But I trust Meghan so I am interested in what she has to day and in this conversation.
I’ll skip this one – not sure Paris deserves this kind of platform at all, but Meghan is really generous to other women and I appreciate the work she is putting into this podcast. There’s such a need for these conversations about what women, particularly women of color have to go through and I like hearing them in their own words. I agree with SussexWatcher, Dolly would have been amazing!
I’ll admit I raised my eyebrows when I saw who the guest was this week and was tempted to skip. I have never been a fan of Paris Hilton, and she has said some really terrible racist and homophobic things before, but I listened. And I realized this episode wasn’t about making me like Paris at the end (I still don’t see myself supporting her in any meaningful way), but to check myself about the roles I want to keep people in. I figured that “Paris Hilton” was a role she was playing way back when she was on Supernatural but listening to her made me realize how much I have judged people for playing the game in a way I wouldn’t and thinking I’m better than them because of it. People are complex and nuanced and sometimes get better in fits and starts, and sometimes regress, but most importantly there is usually more than what we see.
The best part of this episode is when Meghan evaluates her own self at the end. It made me reflect on my own judgement of others, and how I felt when people misjudged me. Meghan is truly a girl’s girl.
Please stop with the “girl’s girl.”
@Coco
Meghan IS a girl’s girl, tho.
I’m curious……why does that trigger you?
ita, paris is not a great person because of the trump/racism/homophobia/animal abuse but that isnt the point. it is about us judging people for certain things, in this case whatever people decide is a “dumb bimbo.” I think Meghan’s end comments were important to tie this all together.
unfortunately, I didnt think she made a very compelling guest in her own words, but I think Meghan’s intention still came across to me
I saw “Paris Hilton” and immediately went “ugh! why her?” I wasn’t interested in listening to HER. But since it’s Meghan, I decided to quickly skim through the transcript. And my opinion has changed. Paris Hilton isn’t the tabloid headlines. I plan to listen later today.
I have respect for both women for coming out of their comfort zones to cover this topic: Paris for talking about her trauma; Meghan for not playing it safe by having a less obviously controversial guest. Yes, Dolly Parton would’ve been wonderful because she is widely beloved. But Paris Hilton?
I really really want to know how and why Meghan picked Paris? Meghan, please write that book and give us the behind-the-scenes stuff.
Dolly Parton or Pamela Anderson would be the obvious choice for the “dumb blonde/bimbo” archetype. The choice of Paris Hilton makes sense when we look at the age of the other guests on Archetypes.
Just like you, I want the curtail pulled. I want a behind-the-sense podcast, not a book.
I’d put Dolly and Pamela in another Archetype, the blond bombshell not bimbo.
Amy Bee, you’re right about the blonde bombshell Archetype. I think the society/culture, in general also placed Dolly and Pam in the bimbo Archetype.
Dolly may have had the dumb bimbo idea put upon her (note example of Porter Wagoner doing so and her objecting to it in the clip in the episode), but she generally doesn’t portray herself as a dumb blonde. Whereas Paris deliberately did so for a TV show. So I’d rather get Paris to talk about that subject now that she’s moved on from that behavior.
That said, hey, if Dolly ever does the podcast, that would be cool beans, for sure.
I don’t follow Paris, but I have warmed up to her (or maybe unthawed). She is a product of the times, and at the same time, a victim. Others, like the kardashians, became more successful at selling themselves, but I am glad it has kind of turned out alright for Paris, she seems she’s doing ok, while others still live in huge messes consequence of their life decisions to become and try to stay relevant. They meshed real life and their work so much it is indistinguishable, and affects people that shouldn’t be affected.
I would not want to be defined by behaviors in my adolescent years. I did some amazing things but also a lot of shitty things.
Meghan’s final thoughts in episode 6 hit me hard. I saw myself in her words.
Meghan: I had a judgment about Paris. And I don’t like having judgment. It doesn’t feel good. But I had to be real about that. Because when I grew up, she was beautiful, rich, and famous. “What could possibly be wrong with her life?” I would think. And because my entire sense of self-confidence was wrapped up in being the smart one and not the pretty one, I found a way to project all of my judgment and envy onto her. “Who would want to act stupid?” I would think. Envy can be a very dangerous thing, as can judgment. I was ashamed to admit that I harbored either of those feelings.
i’m sure we have ALL felt envy for any girl that seems to have it all, that is basically the entire business model of insta girl influencers but Paris though.. ?
Nope.
Paris Hilton happened to be that trigger of envy for Meghan. My Paris was a classmate called Joyce. When our teacher made fun of her “bimbo-ness” and praised my smarts in front of the whole class I took joy in her pain. In recent years I found out Joyce was sexually harassed by that teacher on a daily basis. The teacher used me and my classmates to bully Joyce.
Being the same age as both, I have very complicated feelings about Paris Hilton and her role in pop culture in the early 2000s.
Between the sex tape being released without her consent, and the treatment by Perez Hilton and others, it’s a wonder she didn’t spiral and break in that decade. (I still can’t believe how terribly mainstream culture treated women celebrities back then.)
And did she ALSO court the attention, play into the stupid/vapid stereotype, and still be racist to this day? Yes. Both can very much be true at the same time.
Paris isn’t asking for sympathy because we all thought she was stupid. She knows why we think that. These days, she’s just shilling perfumes, NFTs (eyeroll), clothes, and to her credit, trying to raise awareness about boarding schools abusing children.
The podcast was good, but I could spend hours talking to Paris, learning how much of her bimbo persona she was intentionally driving, and examining my own role as a 20-something pop culture obsessive and faithful US Weekly subscriber.
As far as I am aware, Paris has never apologized or tried to seriously address the anti-Black racism and homophobia she has put out into the world. Hate that she was given a platform.
She also gave an interview to Marie Claire in 2017 stating that the women who accused Trump of sexual assault were just looking for attention and fame.
This. I’m 1000% a Meghan supporter, but I can’t understand why this choice was made. I understand that Paris had a few challenges earlier in life but she is still a selfish, racist, homophobic, Trump-supporting person. This was a poor choice, and I’ll be skipping this one.
Exactly. We do not need a Paris Renaissance.
I plan on listening to the episode but Paris has had a very dubious history in a lot of ways that have nothing to do with her chosen persona.
It’s a no for me I still remember the multiple racist comments Pairs has made. Also the comments Paris said that the women and girls Dump assaulted were just looking for frame. These comments and more have nothing to do with the dumb blonde image she was portraying this is who she is.
Came to say the same. She’s a racist brat and while I don’t think she’s evil to the core or anything, I don’t really need a Paris comeback.
Paris Hilton is an unabashed racist and she’s never addressed it so it’s disappointing as hell for Meghan to bring her on the podcast after airing out the BRF for being racist
I don’t believe that people can’t change, therefore what people has done in the past does not automatically means the same today. By the way I am African American and as I have gotten older I try not to judge people based on past mistakes. I trust Meghan and her team, if Paris still harbor those beliefs I don’t think would have given her a platform.
@ Jacqulyn
She a proud Trump supporter and said his victims were looking for a attention when they spoke up about what he did to them.
I mean good for you Jacqulyn I guess but A) I don’t believe you’re Black for a second and more importantly B) Paris hasn’t done a single thing to prove she’s a changed woman. No acknowledgement of her racism, no apology, no atonement, nothing. As an actual Black woman I’m gonna need to see and believe all of that before I ever give her the time of day
I think people should have an open mind when listening to this episode. The whole point of Meghan’s podcast is to talk about these sexist tropes put on women and some on here are criticizing Paris for being stupid. The lack of self awareness, wow.
The objections have nothing to do with that. Paris is an unapologetic awful person.
While I didn’t read every single comment, what I did read was that people aren’t calling her stupid. They are saying she played into the bimbo trope. Meaning, she acted overly stupid and vapid to make herself famous.
I hope you aren’t talking about the people calling Paris out of on her racism and victim blaming?
If so I think you need to talk a look in the mirror and and reevaluate some things let’s not even get started on your lack of self-awareness.
I am not talking about the racism. Meghan herself said Paris has her controversies and she does. But the dumb blonde stereotype is what Meghan is talking about and for that, Paris is the right person to talk to. I think for every guest on this podcast someone is going to complain about who the guest is. No matter who Meghan has on her podcast I listen with an open mind. Sometimes my mind is changed and others it isn’t.
And I stand strongly behind my first comment.
No one complained about Mariah Carey .
No one complained about Mariah Carey. Why are you assuming others didn’t listen to the podcast with an open mind because they have a different view from you and no one called her stupid they just said she played into that image and made a profit from it.
I’m really only interested in this one if Paris addresses her long history of racist comments. Maybe that’s why she was so nervous, she was afraid Meghan would bring it up?
I have never liked Paris. This podcast won’t make me sympathetic to her. She is unapologetically racist and cruel, and a lot of this media engagement is her trying to reframe how nasty she is. I get that hurt people, hurt people, but she has never eve attempted to make amends and public state that she has been wrong on how she treats persons of color. Having wealthy bi-racial friends don’t count. And while I’m sure she is completely different (I’m sure with someone like Beyoncé), she has not done any sort of course correcting, nor has her family BTW, in that lane. Kathy, Kyle, Paris, and I’m sure all the rest of the Hiltons are pretty openly racist.
Her brother had several racist, public meltdowns. They are a hardcore racist family.
This was a very interesting interview. I didn’t watch The Simple Life or get into any of that early reality tv stuff, but I was in middle school and high school in the early 2000s, so Paris Hilton was emblematic of the culture at the time, which was EXTREMELY misogynistic just in general. And she was a mainstay on ONTD and I was super into ONTD. I had probably the prevailing cultural opinions about her through osmosis rather than any real stake in her as a celebrity. Mostly these days if I see her mentioned I just think about how the Kardashians took that entire game and ran with it and left her in the dust.
I don’t know if this interview changed how I had already grown to perceive her in hindsight. Especially with the mention of her foray jnto NFTs (I cringed, omg Meghan why can’t you stay away from own goals?). That is, she’s a hustler and always has been, which is respectable in a way, especially for an heiress who didn’t have to do anything.
I genuinely had no idea about her traumatic boarding school experience or her current advocacy work though, so that was interesting to learn about. That’s very admirable. And it was interesting to hear her talk about her reality tv persona at the time being a sort of shield for her. Like, the dichotomy is interesting. Because I feel like what she represented at the time by playing that role was so damaging to women, but for her personally it protected her from the ubiquitous cultural ridicule it inspired because she knew it wasn’t really her.
Also was interesting to hear Meghan sort of admit how she felt that same sort of way towards Paris Hilton when she was younger and influenced by the same culture, even as she participated in it herself when she was a suitcase model on Deal or No Deal. She knew that wasn’t what she was all about and that it was just a job, and that it was limiting and misogynistic, but she didn’t extend the same understanding to Paris and women like her at the time.
Well it will appear, Paris has been judged, and there appears to be a number of women who are not even willing to hear her out. Sort of like the ones who, are not willing to hear meghan out, and have pre judged her, and not willing to keep a open mind. I am willing to hear Paris out as I have not walked in her shoes, and will not want to be quick to judge. The I will never like her has a familiar ring to it, for most people here that never personally met her. Reminds me of meghan haters.
Are you referring to the people calling Paris out on her racism and victim blaming.
You’re trying to compare apples and oranges here to get your point across. The “I will never like her”
Comments are because of the racist victim, blaming comments Paris has made over the years for her being a proud Dump supporter and not to mention the animal abuse.
Racism is a major character flaw that shapes personality and damages a whole lot of people beyond the doer. There are some things that are unforgivable unless that person sees how wrong they were and make amends. God, I’m _sick_ of people acting like being racist is a minor problem or character quirk or “Well, that’s how they are.” 👿👿
I agree, Deering 24. It’s sickening when people call racism a mental illness, or a character flaw, or act like it’s a little gaffe that should be ignored. Racism harms. And kills. There’s no moral ground in making tidy excuses for bigots. It’s ugly and it’s harmful and continues to underscore and validate the “othering” of entire groups of people.
When people soft-pedal racism and bigotry, it tells me everything I need to know.
@Margaret, Megan even said it.
Megan: In our conversation, I found her to be refreshing. And look, I know she’s made mistakes. I’ve heard about some of them, others not. This is not to be framed as the defense of Paris Hilton. But it is the humanization of her. Because that’s where we leave judgments at the door. That’s when we can see a woman behind the archetype. I’m sorry for having judged her. I didn’t know her. And as I assured her, I wasn’t looking for a gotcha moment. I was looking for a got you moment. As in the real you. And I think we did
Again, missing the point. No one cares about the bimbo thing. The issue is with her racism, poor behavior, and other harmful beliefs. None of which she has ever addressed or changed.
The criticisms are fine.
I like that we’ve gotten to this phase of the podcast where we’re debating the topics and even the choice of guests. It means it’s a valuable, impactful product, garnering the right kind of conversations. I would’ve hated for it to be a dull listen we all endured because we like Meghan. I’m all for her interviewing divisive women and eliciting strong reactions. If it’s going to tackle archetypes, it’s gotta be real.
This episode was intriguing.
I never followed much of what was going on with Paris Hilton, and after listening and then
reading through comments here, I have mixed thoughts and feelings and some questions.
Archetypes continues to surprise and catch me off guard, at times. I will listen to this one, again…
So pleased that we got a little Dolly Parton, and would’ve liked more.
Agreed Margaret.
when she named Dolly Patton I thought we were going to hear from her too…that would have been awesome! But hopefully we will have other Seasons of the podcast. Where women like Dolly would be inspired to come on anx share their stories given the track record of Season 1. This one I think Meghan struggled with finding common ground with Hilton . It showed in the almost repetitive questions. But she is learning and has great instinct as an interviewer. Good job Meghan.
Haven’t listened yet, as always should be interesting.
I think she could have also had Monica Lewinsky and it would have been interesting, though I think that Monica has recently talked about her past, and it might have been too rehashed.
Monica L would have been a very good choice.
^^ Ummm, I believe Meghan is very friendly with Hillary and Chelsea Clinton, so nope, I don’t think Meghan would want to rehash the ML story.
I believe ML was unwittingly used for her youthful, easy sexuality by Republicans in order to tempt and entrap Bill Clinton (which worked). Of course, Bill did not have to fall so willingly into the trap. And obviously, Bill too took advantage of ML’s youth and easy sexuality when he knew better but couldn’t control himself. Then there was the power dynamic with Bill trying to cover up his behavior and asking ML to lie. ML was 21 (albeit youthfully innocent, and used by older adults, rather than protected). At the same time, it should be understood that ML has always admitted to blatantly enticing Bill Clinton (though I doubt she knew Republicans were setting her up, including the confidante who advised her to save the dress).
All of the above point to Monica Lewinsky not being a great Archetypes podcast subject IMHO. Her story is more about willing, albeit youthfully ignorant on her part, sexual entanglement having to do with powerful political infighting and a high stakes scandal that brought down a POTUS. While the ML saga involves bimbo tropes, it’s much more complicated and political, which is territory I doubt Meghan or Harry want to tread into.
I’m not a fan of Hilton but I remember watching her show and following all the antics back in the day with Lindsey Lohan, Britney, etc. I think Hilton has matured and seems more purposeful and very self-aware, but like Meghan said, this wasn’t a defense but an effort to humanize and unpack some of that baggage. Iliza Shlesinger, the comedian featured, had some great observations and would have liked to hear more from her because she helped break down the blonde stereotypes in a funny way. Also liked how Meghan mentioned her briefcase girl stint , and how some of her ambivalence about this topic came down to envy. All of these topics can be further expanded and more can be discussed and made me want to hear more. Not my favorite of the episodes but a good listen. Also, Dolly Parton!
I tweeted this awhile ago and I am calling it now…Meghan will have Britney Spears as a guest and will breakdown toxic families.
Kathy Hilton is her mother, half sister to Kim and Kylie Richards. All were /are? actresses back in the day. I would think they bring a lot of the entertainment world sensibilities into the lives of their children, along with being entitled, wealthy and privileged, class conscious and racist. Paris knows no other life, how could the outcome have been any different?
Heh. This argument pretty much holds true for Kate—though her ghastly mom _wishes_ she was a superrich celebrity.
Julia K, I agree to a certain extent. I think when you are taught racism you still at some point to need to make a conscious decision to break it down and examine why you are that way. She needs more counselling to have someone challenge some of her held beliefs. It’s one of the ways we grow. If she’s in her own bubble of wealth and privilege, I doubt that will happen. It’s up to her to take a step in that direction.
I haven’t listened to this podcast, yet. I’m trying to keep an open mind, because I’ve certainly got my own opinion of Paris. I think there’s many of us who have worked with women (not all are blond) who have used some of this to get ahead, so it’ll be interesting to hear someone go full on bimbo as a career.
I use to think Paris was a light weight rich kid until I found out how wealthy she was in her own rights with stores all over Asia.
Never forget she’s racist and homophobic. There are /were COUNTLESS recordings of her slinging slurs about various groups, lest we forget about the videos found in her storage unit. Yes that happened awhile ago… But I’d bet what very little savings I have that her views haven’t changed at all 😬
I try to be open minded about Paris, but she always does something to make me not like her. Her losing her dog through a move and then only offering up only 10k for her return was the last example. Like you have millions, obviously you don’t care that much about getting her back. Also if you’re moving, you don’t crate your babies so they don’t run off?
She just seems like an idiot and a selfish self-absorbed one at that.
Oh then she walked the Versace runway like a day after diamond baby(the dog) went missing.
I would not be able to do that if my furbaby was missing.
She would probably say that she is a professional and that’s why, but idk like I said I’ve tried to like her, but have not been successful and I doubt this podcast will help.
She has a history of ‘collecting’ dogs and neglecting them. They’re just replaceable accessories to her.
WOW…some of the comments and name-calling in here is exactly what the same people rail against for being done to Meghan. Yet, here they are calling Paris Hilton all sorts of names and even asking what she’s contributed to society and totally dehumanizing her. SMDH.
I think one can feel ambivalent about someone or even opposed to their views, but still be able to hear them
when they explain whatever hardships they’ve had. For example I despise Liz Cheney’s politics, have zero time for her but respect her for taking a principled stand against Trump and his election BS. Hilton does represent the blonde bimbo and a privileged rich girl we all hate, but was willing to listen and gain some insights into her and what was behind the persona. Meghan herself admitted this wasn’t a defense of Hilton and she’s made a lot of mistakes. We don’t have to like a person to find their story interesting, nor do we have to give them a pass on whatever we object to when we may find some common ground and compassion. Archetypes always gets us talking, that’s for sure.
Like many others I raised an eyebrow when I saw it was Paris Hilton but, gave her a chance anyway. Sorry to say I struggled to stay interested. Although Meghan tried her best I felt Paris was very guarded. I would like to say it’s because she is naturally shy but, she’s been around far too long not to be able to “turn it on” when the light comes on for me to be convinced. I came away knowing about as much as I did about her before the podcast. IMHO she went on there to promote her charity and nothing more. Don’t get me wrong if she can help just one young person from being treated like she was then that’s fantastic but, unlike other podcasts I didn’t really get a sense of who she was. She didn’t seem to be a “smiley” person to the point where this was the first podcast where I didn’t feel any warmth towards the person being interviewed.
It’s a shame because up until this week I’ve enjoyed listening to all the guests and have laughed/cried along with them. The previous guests have all seemed like women who I could meet up for a coffee and have a good old chin-wag. Based on this podcast, Paris is someone where I would most likely take a rain check. To date (and much to my surprise) Mariah Carey has been my favourite guest; I loved her she was funny smart and had a lot to say. I had preconceived ideas about Mariah and she shot every single one of them down in flames. I suppose I’m disappointed in Paris because I thought this podcast would help change my low opinion of her but, when someone gives out so little it’s very hard to give anything back.
Those are some fair points. It felt like this one was more of a struggle than the others, which Meghan herself admitted. Hilton is guarded. I definitely preferred Meghan’s interaction with the comedian, which seemed more easy going and analytical of the topic.
People keep saying Paris was guarded. And that may be true, but have you considered that there may also not be much there to reveal? As I said before, I know she had some challenges in life, but that does not always translate to substance. Superficial, self-centered, awful people have challenges too.
Paris Hilton, no. I will not be listening.
She capitalized on this trope, which set women back. I remember the culture at the time really celebrating her influence. She had many opportunities to do many others things in this world but she chose to be a spoiled brat.
I think this was a substantive episode of the podcast. Meghan has revealed something about herself or addressed some issue that she has personal experience with in each of the episodes. This is also a vehicle for Meghan to use her voice- more subtle than a documentary. At the end, she confesses that she has been judgemental. Who do you think she might be addressing?
I agree, there was much going on in this particular episode. Paris’ comments, answers and conversation were at the heart of the Archetypes podcast concept. Here IS a woman so defined by this trope that even engaging with the episode is difficult for some people. The host owns both her stint on a popular game show and the fact that she is an accomplished Northwestern alumna. Day after day she disparaged for being a ‘suitcase girl’ as well as slandered and insulted for things she did not do at all on social media.
Meghan has quietly acknowledged that the wheel has turned and karma is real – when she was young and hungry and getting herself out there, wanting to succeed she looked down on Paris Hilton as being too rich and successful to have any serious problems. Now that sort of lens has shifted firmly upon her in some quarters. M doesn’t have to say that second part aloud. Anyone following her situation knows that’s the same judgement and lazy thinking M&H often receive. Meghan looked in the mirror admitted this and owned that about herself. The ellipsis she leaves the listeners with might as well be a vuvuzela. This was a meaty, subtle episode.
Meghan is just a very generous person who is self-directed, aware and grateful for her blessings, and she loves giving back. Meg is a rare gem indeed. Paris Hilton, not so much.
That said, I appreciate and understand everyone’s varying views and emotions expressed in this thread. Valid expressions from everyone, from each perspective. No negative judgements on my part. To each their own. I particularly understand nit wanting to soft-pedal or give Paris a pass on her racist comments and biased behavior (especially if she hasn’t expressed regret, awareness and repentance).
Out of everything related to Paris the things I remember most were from her book Confessions of an Heiress I bought in high school, and they were things like “don’t drink alcohol at parties, drink VitaminWater (TM), you’ll look so much hotter in the end!” and “Personally I like to take showers before baths to get really super clean”.
Not bad pieces of advice actually.
(I didn’t mean to doublepost–I moved the post from a reply to its own post–I deleted it above)
Paris has said some unconscionable things, and she is rightly being called out for them here on this post. She has been a Trump supporter and a racist. I hope that she does speak out and apologize for the hurtful things she has said and done. I don’t think that, by interviewing Paris, Meghan is asking that we all embrace Paris with open arms. I think it’s fine to side-eye Paris, and even to condemn Paris for the bad stuff she has said and done. I hope she goes through a period of growth and disavows the shitty things she has said. If she doesn’t, oh well. I don’t believe Meghan is saying, “trust Paris Hilton. Forgive Paris Hilton.” Meghan is telling a story about an archetype, and giving a public figure a space to share her experiences, experiences that were seen and commented on by the public, experiences that helped frame a particular public perspective. She is both complicit in her bimbo persona, and she was harmed by her persona. I think that’s the message that we should take from her story, regardless of our personal feelings toward her.
I would like us as a society come to a place where we can fully accept that women are just as complex, just as faceted, as men are. There’s still a persistent belief that women unconsciously buy into that we are more “likeable” than men. I wish we women held men to the standards that we hold other women to. We can accept that men have flaws, that men make mistakes, have outbursts, make poor decisions and suffer the consequences. Why don’t we accept that of women? Why do we persist in demanding that all women must be likeable? No one is saying that Paris must be liked. I certainly don’t like her, for the same reasons that others mentioned here.
How many times are we willing to listen to the stories of men we don’t like (hint: all the time) because we know there’s something to be gained from hearing their stories? I don’t care if any one person wants to or doesn’t want to listen to Paris. What bothers me is the idea that Paris should have no voice because she’s not likeable. That she doesn’t have the same right to a voice that we all have. Lots of people with insightful things to say about our culture have been objectively terrible people. Think of all the writers, rock stars, artists, actors, businessmen who are terrible people with ideas that we reckon with. Who better to discuss the toxicity of the bimbo that the person who helped construct its 21st century iteration? I would argue that Paris is a better person to speak on that archetype than Dolly Parton or Pam Anderson–Dolly is no bimbo–she’s an incredibly talented artist who built her looks into her persona–bimbo is much, much more than that. Pam Anderson at the end of the day was an even bigger victim than Paris, and she was a working actor. Paris was “famous for being famous,” in many ways the Original Influencer, the creator of the modern iteration of this stereotype. Who better to talk about the consequences of living this persona? We can gain insight from her without having to like her, or accepting her as a sister. It’s possible to listen and empathize, or listen and reject, or listen and feel ambivalent. It’s not okay to say she shouldn’t have a voice at all.
I wholeheartedly love this take.
I’ll join the “no thanks, Paris” crew — don’t especially like her and never have, but I still listened to this podcast, and gleaned something of value from it. If Meghan is to grow as an interviewer and podcaster, we’re going to see her conduct interviews with people who aren’t “ideal”. I think she did a fine job with the subject she had — Paris made sense for this particular trope.
Listening to the podcast did not make me like Paris more as a celebrity, but I was interested in the cultural context of the topic. Her experiences and the effect on her shouldn’t be dismissed just because she has some unacceptable attitudes. I think the conversation of the place of the bimbo in popular culture and how various women have used it or fought against it was a good discussion. Anyway, I don’t expect to like every guest or to admire them, but I expect a good discussion, and I think so far, the podcast has delivered on that. I didn’t feel the warmth between Meghan and previous other guests on this one, though. It was quite a professional “interview” although there was sympathy as well.
Woooowwww… A lot of you are doing some mental gymnastics here… Like… Olympic level… Paris shouldn’t have been given a platform in the first place. Yes, she fit the conversation topic, yes she was an abuse victim (which in young female celebrity circles is the norm (not great but I digress)) but can we PLEASE stop giving documented racist bigoted folks a platform when they haven’t demonstrated that they have been working on correcting their problematic past (racist /homophobic slurs). I’m glad she’s maybe a more functional adult… But I will NEVER get over her bigotry.
I say, stay mad at Paris. Nothing’s wrong with being mad at Paris. She has EARNED your spite and your ire. Her bigotry is real. It hurts people. She has hurt people. I get the frustration of people who are angry at the thought of Paris’s bigotry being excused, or Paris as a figure of empathy (she was a bigot, but she’s a kind soul who likes puppies. Blergh.)
That’s not what people are saying in this discussion. No one is pushing her bigotry aside, or excusing it, or soft-pedaling it. Paris has said what she’s said, and done what she’s done. I think she knows that, and I don’t get any sense that she wants people’s sympathy. She certainly isn’t getting it, even if she does want it.
Paris single-handedly created the bimbo mythos as it exists post 2000. Every influencer that people roll their eyes at has Paris Hilton as a Founding Mother, so to speak. (I know the bimbo trope goes back farther than that, but I don’t know that a lot of the women who admired Paris Hilton know that). Paris has some insightful things to say about what she has wrought. It made her one of the famous women in the world. (and what does that say about our culture?). It has made her ridiculous amounts of money. She has had a lot of harm done to her. She created a trope that some girls measure themselves by, and that lots of women are measured by, whether they want to be or not.
I think I get Meghan’s mission in this series. If we can examine these archetypes, if we can deconstruct them, we can start to see them as the constructions they are, and stop seeing them as inevitabilities. If we take a step back from Paris Hilton the fallible person and look at Paris Hilton the cultural figure, what do we see? What do we learn? If we look at Paris Hilton (if we choose to) as a human being with a voice, what do we see? How does she have to live with what she created? What are the consequences? I don’t hate her, but I don’t feel any emotion on her behalf. What does interest me, because I spend a lot of time around teenagers every day (I’m a teacher), is what are the consequences of this trope on women who aren’t Paris Hilton, but who grew up with her as a cultural touchstone?
Great perspective here – Meghan is going for a big picture examination and deconstruct. I really liked how Paris was humanized here, and how M pointed out the point was not asking the listener to excuse past behaviors, just to focus on the stereotype and the complexities of the the stereotype itself and how it affected the guest. I was left with the impression that Paris is growing as a person. I really listened to her. Up thread, a commenter stated that people grow in some ways and then regress before moving forward again – growth is not always even. Personally, I hope Paris atones for all the ways she has hurt people in the past. The way she spoke about wanting to have children and how she wants better for a future daughter than the stereotype she herself embodied speaks to maturity.
Regarding Meghan, I loved this podcast. She went with a guest that embodied the archetype in all its potential ugliness – a brave choice. The controversy, anger, and other emotions resulting from this in my opinion made Paris a good choice. Meghan is not afraid to make difficult decisions, and that is what this series requires.
Yes, I would have loved to hear more from Iliza Schlesinger because I’m a huge fan and agree with much of what she says. But, sometimes, I learn more from listening to someone I don’t admire and don’t agree with.
Like you, I’m also interested in the why of Paris Hilton – the thing about the “bimbo” persona is that she’s not just a blonde airhead with big breasts, she’s stupid and ignorant and shallow, she says boring and/or embarrassing things in public, she does idiotic and thoughtless things, she’s only tolerated because she’s sexually available. As an influencer, I don’t think Paris would have wanted to embrace all parts of this definition, but there have been many times in history when it’s been fashionable to be stupid and shallow. It’s interesting to think of her picking and choosing which parts of the trope she wants to present.
I listened to the interview and would have rather listened to a more in depth conversation with Iliza Shlesinger than with Paris. And it’s because I don’t think that Paris has a lot to give. It would have been good to hear Meghan touch on some of the crappy things that Paris has said. The homophobia, Trump defense etc. and how the abuse she suffered may have contributed to that. And if so why? Why not lead with compassion toward others since you want it bestowed on yourself. I think it’s interesting that Meghan saw Paris as the IT glamour girl in her life, someone that she envied so much. I didn’t realize that they were the same age! IMO Paris still seems quite immature.
I appreciate Meghan sharing how she was judgmental and how she disliked seeing that in herself. I appreciated how she share how Deal or No Deal affected her self esteem when she was on the show. Also, her Spanish pronunciation is beautiful.
I totally enjoyed the conversation with Iliza Schlesinger too. Thought that was more interesting than Paris and wanted more of that. I can at least acknowledge Hilton’s empathy from hearing from others who went through that same experience at the school she did, so glad she is doing something useful with that. This one seemed like a challenge for Meghan too, because she thought she was too privileged to have problems, and also, while there is definitely the dumb blonde, it seems relatively harmless, esp compared to some of the other stereotypes that affect women,especially women of color. I also think the history of this archetype should have been explored more. Not gonna like every topic or guest, but sometimes the not so great episodes are the ones the host can learn from and improve on.
^^ I get what you are saying @girl_minus. However, although Meg is not afraid to touch on controversial topics, I seriously doubt she wants to ever stray into hot-button politically volatile subject matter (largely due to her and Harry’s royal status). Before meeting and marrying Harry, Meghan was an outspoken political activist. While Meg and Harry are still activists for what is right and good, I think they both want to skirt heavy political discussions. They are both seemingly more interested in reforming the status quo and giving back in meaningful ways rather than engaging in partisan debates or advocating for total revolution.
^^ Sorry for the crazy typo @girl_ninja. My tablet is slow, ancient, and apparently has an auto-schizoid mind of its own!
Paris Hilton was Meghan’s choice for the archetype – dumb blonde/bimbo; right, wrong, or indifferent. I always learned something about the guest I didn’t know. She’s not in my age group, I was never into reality television, but I did watch her documentary on Netflix.
I worked in corporate for many years. Dumb blondes/bimbos are a dime a dozen; they’re not rich like Paris. Some genuinely are not intelligent and use their beauty to acquire comfortable positions and salaries; some are used and gain nothing but maybe a drink and dinner.
I’m not defending her, but I must remind you that more than 50% of white women who wore pink hats voted for Donald Trump, and I’m sure they’ve made some cringing racist statements. I can’t say Paris has moved on, and even when people try to move forward, critics prefer to hold them in the past. It’s like those who continue to attack Harry for the Nazi shirt.
Paris needed behavior modification, but sending her to a boarding school in UTAH (cult land) was not the solution. Donald Trump’s father sent him to a military academy upstate NY (behavior modification). It’s what many wealthy parents do, pass their problems on to someone else. I saw no indication that she nor Donald had professional therapy, and I don’t think either can heal without it. Trump is beyond repair. Paris is advocating for girls in those behavior modification schools, and that’s a start. Also, she did mention a desire to start a family; she may be in a serious relationship.
I note those who said they listened to the podcast made no mention of the other supporting guest, Liza Shlesinger, who dropped a few gems on bottled blondes.
Paris has mentioned a few times in the past year or so that she’s in therapy.
She’s also married.
A lot of people have strong feelings about her because she is an unrepentant animal abuser.
NEVER had this problem lol