The Duchess of Sussex’s new Archetypes podcast is out!! This week’s episode is “Upending the ‘Angry Black Woman’ Myth with Issa Rae and Ziwe.” Considering all of the sh-t that’s still thrown at Meghan to this very day, you would think that she could have just sat there and talked solo and told all of her stories about how an entire national media smeared her as an angry “bully” who makes white women cry. Meghan doesn’t start out with personal stories though – she discusses the same book she and Harry have referenced many time, Algorithms of Oppression: How Search Engines Reinforce Racism by Safiya Umoja Noble. She talks about the trope of “angry Black women” and how that’s not only reinforced by society, but by online algorithms. Here’s the episode:
Meghan starts the conversation with Ziwe, and Meghan reveals that she took one of those genetic tests and it turns out that she’s 43% Nigerian. Ziwe is so excited to hear that and she says that Meghan being part Nigerian is huge for the Nigerian community. Ziwe talks about how she tries to emulate her favorite (white, male) talk show interviewers, but the reaction to her is so different.
I find the normal-conversation part of Archetypes to be so cool – like, I could listen to Meghan and Issa Rae talk about coffee for a while (I don’t drink coffee either, and it’s fascinating to me that Meghan didn’t drink coffee for years in her 30s). Meghan gives Issa her flowers for creating Insecure, for creating a show about how real Black women look, sound, love and live. Issa talks about wanting to create a more nuanced image of Black women on television, and that it’s not just all positive or all negative. Issa talked about the first notes she got from HBO, which is that the name “Insecure” should be changed because the characters were “fierce” and “strong.” Issa was like, no, we need to show people really living.
There’s tons more in this pod – the conversation about Justice Ketanji Brown Jackson’s confirmation hearings and how utterly infuriating they were to watch as white senators tried to bait Brown Jackson into “looking angry.”
Photos courtesy of Spotify, Avalon Red, JPI Studios/Avalon, Robin Platzer/Twin Images/Avalon.
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- Actress Issa Rae arrives at the Michael Kors Collection Fall/Winter 2020 Runway Show – February 2020 during New York Fashion Week held at the American Stock Exchange on February 12, 2020 in Manhattan, New York City, New York, United States. (Photo by Image Press Agency),Image: 563537188, License: Rights-managed, Restrictions: WORLD RIGHTS – Fee Payable Upon Reproduction – For queries contact Avalon.red – sales@avalon.red London: +44 (0) 20 7421 6000 Los Angeles: +1 (310) 822 0419 Berlin: +49 (0) 30 76 212 251, Model Release: no, Credit line: Image Press Agency / Xavier Collin / Avalon
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- CENTURY CITY, LOS ANGELES, CALIFORNIA, USA – MARCH 13: Issa Rae wearing Carolina Herrera with a Rodo clutch arrives at the 27th Annual Critics’ Choice Awards held at the Fairmont Century Plaza Hotel on March 13, 2022 in Century City, Los Angeles, California, United States.,Image: 669529958, License: Rights-managed, Restrictions: , Model Release: no, Pictured: Issa Rae, Credit line: Xavier Collin / Image Press Agency / Avalon
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- Ziwe Fumudoh attends the 2022 Vanity Fair Oscar Party Hosted By Radhika Jones celebrating the 94th annual Academy Awards at the Wallis Annenberg Center for the Performing Arts on March 27, 2022 in Beverly Hills, California,Image: 673516217, License: Rights-managed, Restrictions: , Model Release: no, Pictured: Ziwe Fumudoh, Credit line: – / JPI Studios / Avalon
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- Ziwe Fumudoh attends Bloomingdale’s 150th Anniversary and Harper’s BAZAAR global Icons portfolio on September 9, 2022 at Bloomingales in New York, New York, USA.,Image: 721770045, License: Rights-managed, Restrictions: , Model Release: no, Pictured: Ziwe Fumudoh, Credit line: Robin Platzer / Twin Images / Avalon
And we’re streaming to support Meghan.
Also, non-coffee drinker here.
Caffeine free tea or I’ll be bouncing around 😀
You’d have to peel me off the ceiling. I really don’t drink much outside of water, seltzer, and alcohol. So tea was new for me. I was working part time late at night in a ups warehouse so I decided bringing a hot drink would help. Used green tea. I thought it was herbal and therefore caffeine free. Nope. I thought my heart was going to jump out of my chest. 😆
I howled when she spoke about jazz hands
Lool same. It was just out of the blue but it was really funny aswell
Lol. Me too, I thought is Meghan a celebitchy fan? Lol
I really hope so .
When I wrote her a fan letter a couple of years ago, I mentioned that we’re very supportive here. I imagine other people have told her the same.
I did too. Jazz Hands!
@ LOVE
that was a definite shout out to Kate!!! LOLOLOLOL
LOL! Really? I don’t think Meghan had that Kate woman on her mind at all.
Same, I rolled.
YES I feel like this is the episode we’ve been waiting for – the Angry Black Woman one. We all knew it was coming. I can’t wait to listen later today after I’ve got the kids to school lol.
I listened on my walk. I think this may be the best episode yet. For me, as a white woman, this episode made me think a lot about my perceptions and think a lot about how black people are portrayed in entertainment. Issa’s comment about not having time to process microaggressions stood out to me, it just sounded so draining and exhausting.
Have to agree with you Becks. I loved this episode a LOT of pertinent points were raised and discussed without being the least bit angry/aggressive. I especially liked when they discussed about being afraid to be angry because of how it would be construed. After the disappointment of last week Meghan is back and she’s “cookin’ on gas” 😆
Agreed, for sure the best episode yet, and I’ve liked every episode.
Every episode so far has been good and she has grown as an interviewer. I can’t wait to listen to this one, as a black woman who works is very white corporate spaces they way I have to guard against being perceived as aggressive all the damn time is whew!
Also, can we talk about how amazing her guest list for this entire podcast has been? Duchess stays well-connected and thriving.
She has grown as an interviewer, hasn’t she? And as an activist, and a philanthropist, and a wife and mother … And isn’t that we all should strive toward? To grow, to develop, to learn from our mistakes and build on our successes? Good grief, what the BRF lost when they lost her …
I appreciate that she referenced reading material!
If I may make a suggestion of my own to this very smart comment section that I have loved for a decade:
Invisible Women by Caroline Criado Perez
It goes into data bias in every aspect of our life and was incredibly impactful.
I second Invisible Women – it was a very insightful look at how much of our society has been built without women in mind – eye opening and infuriating!
I third this recommendation although I had to read it bit by bit with gaps in between as it was a lot to see quite how much everything can be working against you!
That’s a really great recommendation. One that I’ve read and I would love to know if Meghan has read it is “Why I’m no longer talking to white people about race” by Reni Eddo-Lodge because it talks specifically about racism in the U.K. and it’s an amazing read
Thanks for this, I’ve seen it mentioned and had wondered about getting it. I’ll add it to my reading list.
Yes, thank you, I have never heard of it.
I really recommend this book as well. She writes so well and it really shocked me about some of the events that I remember being explained with the actual background. It was a really hard read for me, as it should be.
She is a fantastic researcher and presents the data in a really clear and concise way. Be prepared to spend a lot of time reading and thinking about this excellent book.
The audiobook is also brilliant
Just reserved it at my library. Thanks for the rec
What a beautiful black woman. I don’t know anything about her but if she was/is not a model she should have been. I love her effortless elegance. Good for Meghan for bringing positivity models into her show.
I couldn’t tell if you meant Issa or Ziwe but they are both GORGEOUS.
Issa Rea’s parents are from Senegal. Her bright eyes are typicly Senegalese.
On a other note: have y’all heard Meghan saying that she’s 43% Nigerian? Glad our sis is claiming her blackness for everybody to hear.The royalists, haters and those on shutter Island will go mad. I love that for them. Deal with it.
This is only tangentially related but Issa Rae was on Finding Your Roots with Henry Louis Gates Jr on PBS delving into her family history and it was fantastic. Highly recommended episode if you’re interested in that kind of thing. I’d like to see the Duchess of Sussex do one, too. I think that’d be a very insightful story.
Interesting HenryO. I’m from the South, born and raised. I don’t know our heritage background besides the plot of land my Great Grands share-cropped on and I always say I’m Black mixed with Black. The shack my Grandmother grew up in was on the land my Elementary school was built on, so I passed it every day to school. When I went to grad school in DC, I always had Africans stop me and ask if I was from Senegal. The city I grew up in down South does not have a large African presence so it was the first time I had been asked that question and it threw me through a loop. I read up on Senegal people, ethnic groups, and culture.
I’ll admit I only discovered Issa Rae for the first time on HBO but I’m a huge fan now. I’ll say until the end of time that comedy is the hardest thing to do well, and social justice comedy even more so. She is absolutely brilliant as a writer and actor. Looking forward to listening.
LOVED this episode! Loved the little tidbits we learned about Meghan. It also felt like Issa and Meghan were totally vibing with each other and have a lot in common. I see a new friendship forming!
Also, if you guys haven’t seen Awkward Black Girl, check it out! I saw it when it first came out and loved every moment of it. I was so happy when Issa got her HBO deal.
Yes, the good old days of “black and sexy tv”. I discovered so many great black online creators through that including Issa. Unfortunately only a few of them ever made it to a more wide stream audience
Love how each episode is so focused but I also really want the outtakes. I bet they could make a good number of episodes featuring all those diatribes and side convos that I am dying to hear. Please make it happen, Meghan and Archetypes!
I hope episodes are made from the outtakes too.
I love Issa Rae. Can’t wait to listen!
I’ve seen the poem “Still I Rise” referenced, like a couple lines taken out for inspirational words or a twitter bio or something- along those lines, but I’d never read or heard the whole poem, and that closing with Dr. Maya Angelou reading the whole thing was amazing. Actually hearing poets read poetry aloud the way it’s meant to be heard is always satisfying.
this is definitely the kind of topic you could listen to experts and industry black women talk about for hours and still only scratch the surface of it, but Meghan’s approach, of these casual conversations where people just talk about their personal experiences with the tropes, and maybe brush on academic ideas but don’t focus on them, is a very easy, compelling listen, without getting preachy or too wonky. It’s more absorbing the message rather than learning it, iykwim? I liked this one.
I love that she called her Dr. Maya Angelou. Such a sign of respect. And that poem made me teary-eyed and even Meghan’s ending this time ” as always, meghan” kind of made me teary eyed. I don’t know why! Such a good episode.
Thank you Kaiser as always for posting the episode. Just finished listening. I really enjoyed her talking to these women. She and them all sounded so relaxed and happy to be with each other.
And what Meghan quote will the tabs pull out of context to portray her as an “angry Black woman” and start a whole Meghan-hatefest to fill time and space till next week’s episode? They’re still outraged over Deal Or No Deal!
All they will be doing is showing to the world what we have known for years: the royals never had any intention of accepting her, and because they are so isolated and insular, they never considered the consequences of their non-acceptance. Some intelligent person over there, perhaps Christopher Geidt, is realizing what they let get away. Maybe even Charles realizes what the royal family lost in Meghan (William still doesn’t, that’s for sure), but he’s too weak-minded to do anything about it. I’m just so glad that she’s away from that Family of Doom and Darkness. They don’t deserve her.
It really says so much about the BRF’s lack of vision about themselves and the world.
I wonder when Issa started joking that Meghan was throwing up gang signs, was she subtly shading all of those BM tabloids “Straight Out of Compton” headlines.
It was an awesome episode! I love how they both hit how Black women aren’t allowed to be human.
I’m listening now. Like Ziwe, I’m Nigerian , so I’m thrilled to know she’s one of our people. Honestly, when Meghan said she was Nigerian I wasn’t surprised…
@Fumi I know! Why does it feel so right! I love how Meghan’s reveal has single-handedly ended the Jollof Rice wars on Twitter this morning …. Nigerian jollof now acknowledged as superior
😂😂😂😂😂
Fellow Nigerian here. I literally screamed joyfully when I heard Duchess Meghan is 43% Nigerian . Guess there was a reason I have so much love for her from onset. Ziwe I sight you too
The books mentioned by Meghan and in the comments here sound extremely interesting! I’m a huge reader, I grew up mostly without TV (I grew up in a few different countries that didn’t really have TV, at least until my family moved to Italy where we had Melrose Place in German and VERY fuzzy British MTV) and so I’ve been a big reader my whole life, and so for those of you who love to read but are on a budget (like me) here is a website that is basically a free library, and I have yet to lookup a title only to find they don’t have it. They have EVERYTHING. And for the record am in no way affiliated with this site other than as a user.
u1lib.org
This was simply delicious! I was saying yes, yes to every point made in this episode. The fact that episode 7 ends with Dr. Maya Angelou’s reading of her poem Still I Rise speaks volumes. I love the use of Justice Jackson as an example of the minefield black women have to navigate in the world.
On Justice Ketanji Brown Jackson’s Senate confirmation by fire.
Emily Bernard: They tried to rattle her. And get her to react in a way where they could characterize her according to their stereotypes of black women. Angry, irrational, emotional, impulsive, all human emotions that black women are often not granted the privilege of expressing.
Issa Rae: Because I just knew they were going to come for her. And I already saw how much restraint she had. // And they were going to find attacks, they were going to dig. And I didn’t want to see that unfold. But I heard she did a wonderful job and she’s, you know, she’s here. She made it.
Meghan: Which is the same way you’re saying you carry yourself. And you make a choice, right? You make a choice to be as grounded as possible in what we share
because of all the things that are going to be said no matter what.
You made me think of the irony of Lindsey Graham trying to characterize anyone as impulsive, irrational and emotional, let alone angry.
This is the part I’m looking forward to the most. Need some uninterrupted time. Love Issa Rae, loved Insecure so can’t wait.
I’m not a podcast person, but I always try to support Issa, so this afternoon I know what I’ll be listening to. Question, I have an Audible account and KindleUnlimited, which is how I listen to podcasts now. Do I have to do something special for this one? Do I have to have a Spotify account, or can I still listen through Aubidle? I love Issa Rae and I am impressed every time she speaks on certain topics.
I think you need spotify, but you can download the app for free; I don’t pay for spotify. (you can pay for it, but you don’t have to.) You can also click through the link in this post to listen, but I think that still goes through spotify.
I haven’t had a chance to listen yet. As a Black woman, I’m so excited that this subject will be tackled, but I gotta admit I’m cringing because the backlash from non-Black derangers is about to begin. It will be really hard to listen to random white folks tear this episode apart, as though they’re the true experts on what is racist and the true arbiters of how we Black women should feel and behave.
I’m buckling up for the truly ugly and offensive reactions which are surely out there.
But still I rise.
Yep it started, just ignore comments under some tweets. The tweets I have seen have been very positive, but you know, racists got to racist.
On behalf of idiotic white people (as someone who is working hard not to be one), I apologize, Beverley, for the crap directed at Black women. It’s disgraceful.
I cannot wait to listen to this episode.
Very excited for this one! I listened to it this morning and even talked about it with a friend who listened. She and I discussed how we have to hold our faces a certain way, make sure we smile, etc. when we have meetings in predominantly white spaces.
I think that’s why I got so ticked about the RR trying to argue that Meghan was bullying a predominantly white staff. Like please. That was not realistic to one Black woman I talked to about this. Also, her having clear expectations on things and people crying bullying, yep felt thought.
Great episode!
My yt co-worker wanted to discuss the latest season of Big Brother and the racism in the show. SHe wasn’t sure if a certain incident counted as racism, and she wanted to talk to a Black woman about it. I haven’t watched it all the way, but I heard in my Black reality show groups how everyone ganged up on Taylor with the slightest thing, and all of it makes me cringe because, as a Black woman, I have been there. Even a gracious comment is taken out of context negatively. If I don’t school my face and have a smile, then I must be “mean or mad, or have walls up”. If I do smile, it’s “wow, must be fake.” If I just walk around with my thinking face, I get “there she goes, shutting down.” It oftentimes feels like walking a tightrope.
Thank you! And it is. It’s hard to navigate in predominantly white spaces. I got feedback from my boss before that I he wants me to be careful with smiling too much because people could take it that I find what they are saying amusing. I told him I did that because I got feedback from a prior supervisor at our same office that they thought I was angry in meetings because I wasn’t smiling. Can’t win for anything.
The people who watched the live feeds got to see a lot more of what happened to Taylor. It’s was edited for the broadcast so it was hard to see how bad it was especially until that one player left.
Haven’t listened yet but based on the spaces I’m listening into, it’s a really good one. Based on the 43% Nigerian remark, we’ll get either diaspora wars and lots of jokes about jollof rice, the press will start going after Ancestry and 23 and me, etc.and questioning their accuracy and “privacy”. The haters and “she’s not really black crowd” will be melting down and bringing up her dad again. I took one those genetic tests once. Thought it would be fun. Brought up lots of complicated feelings when I got the results. Wasn’t expecting that. Anyway, looking forward to this conversation.
So true the haters will point out Meghan’s white father to somehow water down her sense of her own Blackness. It’s an absurd study on how irrational racists can be. On one hand, Meghan is almost half Nigerian but they’ll say she’s not really Black because of her father. Yet these same people know full well that under colonization and enslavement, white blood didn’t matter to your status as a slave. Here in the US, we had the One Drop Rule, meaning even if you had a white father, if you had even ONE DROP of Black blood, you were considered Black and fair game for injustice, cruelty, and enslavement.
So if the haters try to say Meghan isn’t really fully black, they need to explain why they always want it both ways: to snub her, exclude her and punish her for her Blackness while simultaneously denying their ratchet mistreatment and racist abuse of her because Meghan “isn’t really Black.”
There’s a lot to unpack here.
Glad you mentioned ppl using the 43% Nigerian as a way to attack her. I have my own getting curious questions and comments about it but it won’t be taken that way. I’m not going to add a stick to beat her with.
Have you ever taken one of those tests? A lot of people make the assumption of confusing how someone looks or their skin color with the DNA percentages. Those tests aren’t totally accurate but my understanding is it’s based on the samples from a region and the percentages change as they collect more DNA from a region. So while she may have DNA from different regions, this one showed up the most, and of course it excludes the European. Remember, she is talking about ancestry and DNA, nor her cultural upbringing . She was Nigerian 200-300 years ago and the in between was quite an experience for those who made her what she is today.
Issa Rae and Mindy Kaling have been her best guests so far.
My twin!!!😂 Totally agree with you Jewell.
Agree. They were both such good episodes. I need to get Safiya Noble’s book. I loved hearing how Issa approaches her work and just how she is, and how she knows she doesn’t have the luxury to openly express her anger,especially as she becomes more public, due to this Angry tropes. That last part with her joking about Meghan flashing gang signs was hilarious. So LA. The segment on the confirmation of Justice Jackson was so on point. The way they tried to come for her in the hearings to try to rattle her was disgraceful and glad it was discussed in this episode. I’m not that familiar with Ziwe but was interesting how she uses the pink Barbie motif to placate guests so she doesn’t seem too “scary”. She is very direct and it’s hilarious how the guests sometimes squirm when she questions them. The pink’s interesting because last week Paris Hilton also leaned into the Barbie imagery as a form of escape. Was so good, need to listen again, and mentioning W.B.Dubois and the double consciousness and Maya Angelou. So good. Needs to be longer.
I 100% agree.
Looking forward to this episode. I’m smiling at the 43% Nigerian statement bc I’m sure many heads are exploding bc they hate that she’s biracial so they have to find ways to minimize any Blackness. Two of the latest deranger talking points on SM are that
1) Meghan isn’t Black and she put Caucasian on her CV. It’s one that has recently been revived. Is race required to be mentioned on CVs? Bc in the US, its not specifically mentioned on resumes, although there are ways to tell if one someone is a minority if one knows what to look for – like attendance at &/or graduate of Historically Black Colleges and Universities (HBCUs), membership in predominantly Black frats/sororities or specific ethnic organizations, even guessing ethnicity by one’s name.
2) A newer one gaining traction is that Meghan is only 1/4 Black. They hate that she’s biracial so they have to find ways to discount any Blackness. Bc some fool heard that the majority of Black Americans have some mixture of white ancestry in our DNA (true), they’re insisting that Doria is 1/2 white. Another “fact” pulled out of someone’s ass without any proof of DNA testing. Hilarious right? Ones foolish enough to jump into my timeline with this nonsense are told that any percentage of whiteness is a direct result of SA against Black female sl@ves, which the sl@ve masters and other white men in power frequently committed bc they could and also to produce more sl@ves. I usually get blocked 😂😂😂
Chantal,
Regarding number 1 silly talking point, it’s not required and what they are always referencing is a website literally called ” Babe Statistics” as evidence because that’s how that website listed her. They also always manage to miss the times Meghan spoke on camera or in interviews about being biracial and the impact hearing her mother get called the n-word had on her. It’s just another part of their, ” I didn’t know she was biracial until someone said something, I hate her for this totally made up and arbitrary “BeHavIour”.
Regarding number two they don’t have a good grasp of statistics and how they work, they also don’t want to acknowledge that elephant in the room of white presenting people having African ancestry. On Professor Gates’ show I feel like there’s at least one “white” celebrity each season who finds out they have black ancestry, and they definitely don’t want to acknowledge that.
So there are no black people in America? Ok. These fools are backing themselves into an ever smaller corner in their pursuit of trying to “take down” Meghan. I’m looking forward to the moment when they all just fall right off that cliff they are desperately clinging to.
@Dee(2). Thanks for the info. I wondered where that came from! Most White Americans would be shocked to learn that they have some African ancestry. Sl@very produced a lot of Black people who could pass for White, and did!
@MSIAM Where did i say there are no Black people in America? I’m obviously and specifically talking about Black descendants of sl@ves in the US. I said due to sl@very, the majority of Black Americans have some white ancestry. Doesn’t mean that we aren’t Black, or that it makes us less Black or that there are Black Americans without any European ancestry bc of course there are. But Black females were used for breeding to generate more free labor, esp by white owners after sl@very was outlawed. I’m not even going to talk about consent.
Regardless of this history and based on the hateful one drop rule, the majority of Black Americans have, are and will continue to proudly state that we are Black/African-Americans. DNA testing won’t change that identity. Some bir@cial people like Obama and Halle Berry will state unequivocally that they’re Black. Others will emphasize that they are bir@cial, and some will downplay or ignore Black ancestry. It is what it is. But r@cists really don’t care about percentages and gladly ignore any “white DNA” non white people may have.
@Chantal, you’ve said an entire WORD.👏🏾👏🏾👏🏾👏🏾 Totally co-sign.
I never said that you said anything Chantal. I was commenting on the pretzels that the haters are twisting themselves in to attack Meghan. If the latest pretzel is that black Americans can’t claim to be black because we have mixed ancestry then they are running out of room for their “Meghan isn’t really black” argument. Sorry you took it that way.
@Chantal
President Obama does NOT “unequivocally state that he is black.” He just doesnt insist on the point. There are more than enough folks out there declaring him to be this or that.
In his first book: Dreams From My Father he addressed that point. First of all, as a child growing up in Hawaii, you could tell that he was mixed but most folks didnt know what he was mixed with.
So he explained that there was usually a shift in how people interacted with him whenever he mentioned his half-whiteness, saying that they he got the sense that they felt he was ingratiating himself to them. So, in order NOT to deny his mother, while at the same NOT claiming whiteness, he stopped saying what he was.
If you look back during his entire political career, he never declared himself as solely a black man but he always claimed both sides of himself.
Also Obama has always called himself up to fairly recently African American. It was actually quite important to a lot of Black people he didn’t use the words biracial in the political arena.
https://www.npr.org/2008/01/09/17958438/why-obama-chooses-black-over-biracial
Somehow that shifted to Black the past couple of years.
Kamala Harris has identified as Black too but has gotten crapped on by those ADOS folks who make me mad. They have been going in on Nigerian Twitter and it’s been fun to watch them get smacked down.
I saw some articles before about why Obama is considered Black and Meghan is considered biracial before. That drives me up the wall because once again colorism rears it’s ugly head.
I am so tired of them. Ugh. I saw those talking points. I know there are a lot of comments to have around colorism, but I am exhausted by people saying she’s been pretending to be white. Never has once.
“…any percentage of whiteness is a direct result of SA against Black female sl@ves”
Good lord, I am tired of this nonsense as well. Like, GTFOH. Any percentage of white in my DNA is the direct result of my partially white father marrying and making a baby with my fully black mother!
@CHANTAL- from what I’ve seen, Meghan’s race was not listed on her acting resume at ALL. Which is smart because then directors would have been less likely to put her in box, so to speak, based on her race
I was so relieved that she finally did this. I cannot wait to listen.
A fantastic episode.. I only wished it was longer.
Issa saying she was throwing up gang signs had me 🤣🤣🤣🤣
Do we think it would be more accurate if called stereotypes instead of archetypes?
At this point, why keep harping on it?
Because lord knows they have to harp on something, don’t they? *eyeroll*
I’m gonna go ahead and assume youve researched the meanings of both words. If you have, then you will know that both words have their distinct meanings but their meanings also overlap.
However, ‘Archetype’ provides a more all-encompassing meaning of character/psychology-type, while ‘Stereotype’ offers a short-hand and kind of more accessible version.
e.g: “the Hero” is an archetype; however, a character description in a script will, for example, say: Johnny plays the role of the guy who is always right on time to save the girl.
e.g: “the Innocent” is an archetype and, as I’m sure youve seen, blonde white females are the ones stereotypically presented/given the benefit of doubt as “innocent” in any scenario involving a blond white female (esp young ones) in any interaction with anyone else, especially of other races.
@Kingston thanks for this, I’ve been listening to people pushing this complaint and I totally agree. The examples brought forward each week by the podcast are just too insidious and far reaching to be mere stereotypes. Seems like an unimportant detail, really, but of course, everyone has to be provocative, right?
@Kingston this explanation helps me a lot. I wondered before if the choice was influenced by the name of their foundation. And I was good with that. But thanks to you, I love it even more now!
This explains it perfectly.Archetypes is definitely the accurate description of what Meghan covers. Stereotypes may be involved but the impact is so much broader than that. Really liking how she’s approaching this podcast and how the guests are so willing to share their experiences and put it in the context of the particular topic. So well done.
If someone listens to these podcasts and the only thing forthcoming as a thought is about the title, it shows a certain shallowness of thought.
@equality, this right here. Every word.
With the Mindy Kaling episode coming second, this is by far my favourite episode of Archetypes. I love so many aspects of it. The flow was seamless. I couldn’t believe it was close to an hour. It literally flew by. The pacing, the music, the chemistry between Meghan and Issa, the evocative professor, the Nigerian moment with Ziwe, those goofy seconds at the end with the gang signs lol!
I just… it’s so human. It’s giving women permission to unsubscribe from these confining labels that put artificial boundaries on our lives and are weaponized against us for control. We can no longer accept a world where a women’s life and career can be destroyed by insidious labels and narrow classifications. In a way, Meghan’s ordeal (which is ongoing in the media) has her perfectly placed to help humanize other women who might feel safer speaking to her given her own vulnerability and openness.
Bravo Meghan. It keeps getting better and better. So proud of her!
An excellent description of the Meghan zeitgeist.
I co-sign it all.
I could almost feel what she really wanted to say but couldn’t when they were referencing how black women bosses are treated. Had she wanted to drop some bombs about how the racist KP staff treated her, she could have. But she took the higher road.
Great discussion overall. I also wonder if Issa and Meghan will work on a project together.
I was wondering when she was going to get around to this one.
Ha! She was making ‘em wait. Can you imagine the braying of the rabid dogs if she had hit the ground running with this one? The racists would be – as Kaiser says – crying and throwing up! How dare she?!? Yet it would stand as some kind of proof, some sort of validation that Meghan is worthy of all of their abuse.
What I like about this episode is that it highlights two brilliant, highly educated American comedians/writers, very good at what they do, who’s parents migrated from the African continent (Nigeria and Senegal) to America, and migrant reveling her African heritage in this episode (43% Nigerian).
Meghan is doing these Archetypes pods brilliantly. Much to unpack, much to learn.
Spotify was right; this was never done before: well researched, educational, entertaining, driving worldwide discussions, picked up by the media worldwide. Highly rated worldwide.
Sign our girl up for Season #2 Spotify!
correction: migrant reveling = Meghan reveling.
Totally agree. Nothing of substance to add to your post. Just brilliant conversations.
Imagine a world in which every parent has the experience of raising a child like Meghan. Thank you Kaiser for always being fair and balanced in covering her.
So.. a world full of Thomas Markles?
Love Issa Rae and I love Duchess Meghan with her. Add Ms. Serena Williams and I would gasp, shut up, sit down and listen. Queens.
Such a good pod! I always feel like it wasn’t long enough and then I see it was 1.5 hours. It’s so good it flies by.
Looking forward to this tomorrow on my walk – pouring rain here so saving it until then. 🙌👍
Such a good one this week. My only complaint is that I wanted more Ziwe and I wish her and Issa would’ve gotten their own episodes.
I purposefully listened to today’s episode and did not read about it on twitter or any place else afterward for the rest of the day bc I just wanted to savor the fabulousness of it! This episode was fantastic – I agree with all of the accolades above.
I also really enjoyed the last two episodes that included Constance Wu and Paris Hilton. I have thought a lot about Constance and her difficult situation. I relate to her anger and bitterness regarding the manipulation and sexual abuse she suffered from and kept quiet about – sometimes these things do not get revealed the way we may have hoped for but just come out or erupt in ways that are not planned or refined. She and Paris put a lot on the line with their archetypes, and I am glad they came out to share their stories when they knew they would most likely be criticized for it.
@HennyO above – I agree with your comment also : ) Meghan’s Archetypes is its own cultural moment.
Meghan used her podcast to give a shout out to bean pie. Bean Pie!!!! Love it!