The final episode of the Duchess of Sussex’s Archetypes is here! The Spotify summary calls it “the season finale,” suggesting that Season 2 is already being planned, which is exciting! Meghan’s first Archetypes season was a massive success and a cultural conversation-starter. I have a suggestion for Meghan for an episode for Season 2: “Exploiting the ‘Exotic’ – an examination of biraciality.” But I’m getting ahead of myself! The final episode of Season 1 is “Man-ifesting a Cultural Shift.” She talks to Andy Cohen, Trevor Noah and Judd Apatow. This is the first time in the first season she’s interviewing dudes about archetypes, stereotypes and language. Here’s the pod:
As it turns out, Meghan was/is a huge Real Housewives fan and she spills some tea. When she was on Suits, she tried to get booked on Watch What Happens Live. Andy Cohen wasn’t shocked – he and his staff apparently talked about and wondered about that for years. Meghan also admits that she doesn’t watch Real Housewives these days because her own life became super-dramatic.
I’ll admit that I didn’t think much of Meghan’s dude choices, but maybe these dudes are smart picks. Cohen arguably has more cultural influence than nearly any television producer. Apatow has been criticized many times for his creation of two-dimensional female characters, notably the “nag” archetype, which Meghan gets into.
It’s also kind of funny to me that this episode is the longest one. The first time she interviews men, they would not STFU and Meghan gave them all a huge amount of space. I’m just saying… if these were women being interviewed, Meghan probably would have done a tighter edit!!!
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Ugh. I don’t like ANY of these guys. Not. One. They are all just dreadful to me. I may listen to it but idk…
having men on the pod for a change was a cool choice … but, yeah, oh god why *these* ones tho?
i mean, there are famous men who are actually known for supporting women.
why didn’t she have harry on?
I don’t have to like them, but for the purposes of the Podcast, and keeping with the theme, I think they were perfect. Andy cohen controls the RealHousewives franchise, and those shows are a disservice to women:
Wait why is Trevor Noah dreadful?
He’s not. I find hm fantastic and recommend everyone listen to his comments about Kayne publicly threatening Kim during their divorce. He was one of the few media people taking those threats seriously
He certainly is. And while his comments about Kim K were correct they do not absolve him of his own past misogyny and misogynoir.
@Ameerah … I haven’t noticed any. Could you please share? Thanks!
His twitter account showed some jokes from 2013 about South Africa and Israel.
And he made a controversial joke about Aboriginal women although I can’t find the joke.
I like him. The crap we used to laugh at (in the 80s and 90s) were way worse than that. Just look at Eddie Murphy’s old stand up comedy. It’s not surprising we are having the issues in the US that we are. I’ve watch movies from that time and thought “this hasn’t aged well.”
“When you know better, you do better.”
A few folks have already shared some things he has said. And he’s a Bernie Bro and I cannot with that sect. He has said some disrespectful things about Secretary Clinton in the past so I just don’t like him. He is smart and talented but he needs to grow the fuck up.
EW, Andy Cohen. I will listen of course, but the way some of y’all felt about Paris, I feel double that about this dude.
Trevor Noah s really cool. The other one I do not recognize. Sorry to that man.
I am not into Andy Cohen or Judd Apatow, period. I can’t say I get their appeal.
Not an Andy Cohen fan.
Trevor Noah’s segment was my favorite of all 3. Trevor and Meghan had a good rapport. I wish their talk had gone on longer and I’m hoping if he returns to late night television, he will interview Meghan one day in the future.
I really enjoyed it, too. I won’t re-listen to Cohen, maybe to Apatow. I plan to show the Noah portion to my boys.
I have not once been able to predict who she’ll have on and I’ve learnt to cast aside my doubts. For me, this was one of my favourite episodes. The bit with Trevor was a revelation. He illuminated something that I hadn’t been able to grasp before about men’s behaviour. The part about no realising women are human. It’s more common than I think we talk about. A lot of men don’t think women have complex inner lives. It explains so much!
The way Noah has talked and “joked” about women in the past, it’s clear he doesn’t think of them as human. He’s a huge misogynist. Not because he’s a man, but because he’s chosen to be a misogynist.
Y’know, comedy is a lot about satire, sarcasm, irony, etc. Not only does one have to have a sense of humor – which isnt common, btw – to appreciate comedy; but a sense of humor requires that one has intelligence….also not as common as one wd think.
And, btw, like acting, a comic is not necessarily playing him/herself.
Yes. Trevor said that. He also said he’s grown and regrets that.
If you are not allowing space for men to genuinely learn, grow and change, I don’t know how you expect anything to ever get better.
Andy and Judd are trash. What a strange choice. I wonder if Spotify was like “too many women” and forced her to do this one.
Meghan says that Harry suggested that the men’s perspective should be included. Archewell is doing work the Global Boyhood Intiative and Meghan also said that men and boys have to be include in these discussions so it’s not surprising that she has an episode talking to men.
Apparently it was Harry’s suggestion! Plus Meghan has always said men need to be part of the conversation of feminism.
Yep and yep. So surprised by these choices considering the thoughtful diversity of her guests all series. No activists?!
Trevor is always very interesting (although he’s said some awful things in the past), that pick makes some sense to me but… ugh the rest. And with it being so long when other amazing guests have received such a tight edit! Can’t quite understand it but maybe it will all make sense upon listening.
After reading some more modern and intersecting feminist perspectives/literature, I’m of the mind that women cannot move forward unless men are a part of the conversation. So this episode is smart, but I wish she had better guests…so I’m curious to see how the discussions turned out and if these men learned anything by speaking with her.
I sort of wonder if its because they’re “trash”? (to be honest I’m not that familiar with either, I don’t watch Real Housewives and just learned today he was the one who greenlit that franchise, lol, and I hate Judd’s movies and rarely watch them). but she talks with both, especially Judd, about some of those issues and is Real Housewives feminist or not etc, did Judd change his approach after having kids, etc. So it ended up being pretty interesting.
Out of all the zillions of interesting men out there, yes, why these three????? I haven’t listened yet, but it would appear to frame it with a narrow TV-film focus, which might reflect Meghan’s previous career. But … that’s a very limited fishbowl and men who are on camera in entertainment media already get enough of a spotlight! If we have to listen to men, I’d like to hear from more diverse men and from more diverse walks of life. And yes, equal editing opportunity – don’t let the guys ramble on, we already live with enough of that in real life.
Listen to the podcast. It’s an awesome show. There’s a reason to pick these three.
I thought so, too. Really good episode though totally unexpected.
Listen to the podcast. I am 100% positive that everyone on here saying “Why these guys?” has not listened. The Trevor Noah segment, in particular, is outstanding. This ended up being one of my favorite episodes of the series.
I mean you can look at it another way. Women have the main feature of the show and all the men got was one episode. I hope there will be another season of the show. It’s been enjoyable to listen too. My guess is we will get Harry’s podcast next though.
I was surprised by how much I enjoyed listening to them and hearing their thought processes. It really is true that the best way to let go of prejudices is to listen to the other side. People have their own internal logic and while you may not agree with it and it makes them understandable. It makes you realize people aren’t malicious they just truly think differently and come from a different time.
Huh. I guess doing one podcast episode on men makes sense but Andy Cohen and Judd Apatow would have been the… last people I would have guessed. Do have some other podcasts/episodes to catch up on but nevertheless, looking forward to this.
Once again Meghan showed how well versed and educated she is. I thought Trevor Noah was amazing. His conversation of his early years in South Africa and his views on women roles alone was worth the listen for me. He is a very well spoken man. The final comment Meghan made was prophetic, “they tried to bury us but we are seeds.” I thought Andy Cohen was a good choice. Not a fan of the Housewives series but enjoyed hearing his thoughts. Sure hope Meghan and her team with Spotify produce more series . I have learned a lot from and have enjoyed every episode. Long May the Sussexes prosper.
Men have huge influence over the perpetuation of archetypes and stereotypes in our media and throughout society. So it makes perfect sense that they would and should be included in the convo.
I really enjoyed the episode. Although I also noted they were each given a lot more time to speak.
I agree with the notion that it’s a fascinating discussion to see what men think about archetypes and how they contribute to it, traffic in it and profit from it. You don’t have to be a fan of any of these men but Judd Apatow and especially Andy Cohen has done this and Meghan challenges them on that.
But I enjoyed the Trevor conversation the most. He’s such an interesting guy! My whole family loves him.
To Meghan, I give her a HUGE round of applause for a wonderful, enlightening first season and look forward to more. She got better with each episode and found her stride. Next season is gonna be even better.
haven’t done listening to it yet, but it was very telling to me that when Meghan mentioned meeting Andy Cohen before when she was still an unknown actress and he didn’t remember but was all like dreading her story with the “oh no! what did I do”, that he is probably usually an asshole to non-rich/famous people and knows it. idk, but it really felt that way, like he had that tone.
Like when Julia Roberts sheepishly knew she was probably an asshole to Julianna Margulies when Julianna mentioned waitressing for Julia once before she got her break. You people could just not? be assholes to random people? then you wouldn’t have to live in fear that some random person you were a dick to might become more famous than you one day and talk about what an asshole you were to them.
If she wanted to talk to men, why not transmen? Or men who aren’t straight? Men who aren’t gender-conforming in some way, and then they could get into how misogyny affects everyone? Or at least she could have talked to men who aren’t gigantic assholes. None of these men need bigger platforms, ffs.
FYI Andy Cohen is gay, but your point is still a good one.
But isn’t that the point? They have huge cultural-defining platforms and impact (Cohen and Apatow, at least). They have had major influences on how women are perceived in media, in our society’s vocabulary, etc. They have built, reinforced or leaned into some of the very tropes Meghan’s show is trying to address. I haven’t listened yet, but I will, not because I’m a fan of any of those men, but because important conversations don’t always happen in a bubble with our favorite people.
I wish I could like your comment @MrsCope …. YES YES YES! you are so right….I have some issues with Judd and Andy as well; I do like Trevor Noah, he is brilliant! I really liked this episode, Meghan and her team did an amazing job!
Again, I say listen to the podcast and then come back and talk about it. Andy Cohen is gay and he arguably has a greater influence on pop culture than anyone. I don’t watch any of the RH shows and never have, but who they are and the things that happen seep into my brain somehow. Judd Apatow is meh, to me, but I get it. Trevor Noah is actually an outstanding guest with a totally different perspective. He’s amazing. And she doesn’t just let them talk. She challenges them and they have conversations.
All of these men have said and done incredibly problematic things: Andy Cohen has an abiding hatred of BW. Trevor Noah is a colorist and has said incredibly misogynist things and Judd Apatow was run off Twitter for what he said about Will Smith after The Oscars.
@Emily_C …. you know sometimes one should be careful by asking first instead of blatantly showing one does not know. Is your comment a good-faith one ? I am not sure but I will assume it is
“If she wanted to talk to men, why not transmen? Or men who aren’t straight?” —- Andy is GAY
Thank you very much for my 30s ted talk!
I think the point was to get the perspective of ‘regular’ men. To understand better where the miscommunications and misconceptions might be. Meghan actually challenged Andy to defend Real Housewives (In a nice way).
Lil Nas X would have been a nice choice.
Out of fairness, I will give it a listen. I prefer to never to listen to men in general, but these 3 are interesting choices. Judd (films), Andy (tv & pop culture) and Trevor (tv & news) each have notable influence and millions of fans, so perhaps by allowing them to explain themselves and their process to Meghan (and us), we can get to the heart of the matter — how they portray and talk about women in their films/shows.
I’d also like to think that, after being on this show with Meghan, these men will also think more fully about their choices relating to women in the future. One can hope.
Mrs. Smith, I think that is the point. Meghan and her team were clearly not looking for feminist icons to have on. They wanted more “typical” male perspectives. And once you get past Alan Alda who is in his eighties, the pickings are slim looking for male feminists. As some have pointed out, these three are huge influencers.
These men have influence over how women are perceived in media, which is also what Meghan’s been tackling throughout the series.
Also, men need to be included in feminism, as boys grow up to become men. Misogyny affects and influences them as well – like the idea of what’s acceptable for men to do, wear, and how they behave, and whether it’s appropriately “manly,” is misogynist, as it’s based on the idea that anything feminine is bad. Having conversations with and challenging men who have this influence *could* have an impact.
I haven’t read the transcript/or listened to the episode yet. But I do have a thought. Even a mud puddle can reflect the light. I’m going in with an open mind.
I love that, too!
I’m so confused by some of the criticisms above. Why would Meghan talk to paragons of male virtue only? How would that challenge anyone or move the needle further? How on earth would that make for fruitful discourse and change? Judd and Andy are very powerful media players, they literally shape culture (for good or bad). No one wants to sit through an hour of Meghan giving perfect people their flowers, that’s not the show.
At least we haven’t had any “But-but-shouldn’t it be called stereotypes instead??” comments yet.
A rare but welcome treat lol
Lol don’t jinx it!
LOOOLLLL ….please don’t jinx it yet; those “people” might still appear with their usual, useless and repetitive comment! LOL
Well said, Sunrae!
sunrae, you’re 100% on point.
Meghan’s final thoughts say it all.
I agree with you 💯%. 👏🏼👏🏼
1000% agree, a 12 weeklong circle jerk would have gotten old very soon. What’s really annoying to me is that it doesn’t allow for people to ever grow, like everyone has always been the wokest of the woke and has never said something they look back on and cringe internally. People are flawed, and hopefully continue to move forward as they are educated.
Also I feel a bit weird that the last podcast centers on two white men and one biracial guy. I know we do live in a predominantly white male centered world, but I would have loved for this to be opened up a lot more with even more voices.
I’m glad I had placed zero expectations on the Archetypes Podcast because this allowed me to be open-minded to the guests and topics covered in the 12 episodes. I’m an avid listener of podcasts and I can attest that Meghan and her team did outstanding work. I look forward to the seed planted in season 1 growing steadily in season 2 with the same open-mindedness.
I have so many topics in mind for season 2 if there is one….I 100% agree with you, outstanding work by Meghan and the Archewell Audio team!
Ok, I’ve listened to it. I don’t follow Andy Cohen and Judd Apatow as people. I only know of them as producers of content – so, to me, they were interchangeably uninteresting and useless. Both seemed to eel away from the subject and head to the safe corner of “I’m producing what people want to see.” Their segments could have been cut out and nothing would have been lost.
I do like the way Trevor Noah thinks and expresses his POV and I enjoyed what he had to say about the boxes in which men find themselves. In my years in finance, working almost exclusively with men, I found one advantage to being on the fringe. Women weren’t expected to kill themselves getting ahead. I could leave the business without being branded a failure. The men could only leave if they retired or were wheeled out by the undertaker.
Congrats to Meghan & Co. for their accomplishment and I hope to hear more from them.
Yuck. Hi, let’s embody patriarchy by giving men the last word. I wouldn’t mind as much if it weren’t the season finale and if her husband hadn’t have been the one to “suggest” it. Men’s voices aren’t necessary to legitimize the conversation. Especially that it’s Andy cohen that might be the biggest barf of all.
Phew! Thank heaven your pov is only yours and is of value only to you.
@Kingston: Why not engage in thoughtful discourse rather than be patronizing?
Movements without allies fail.
I enjoyed the show a lot, I think dialogue with men who may not get it exactly how women want is important also hopefully they create better content and characters. I really hope they have a more seasons. I have enjoyed this first season immensely.
Excellent episode. I would watch the Real Housewives of Montecito with Oprah and Ellen. The final thoughts are absolutely emotional and beautiful.
ewww Andy and Judd were both so underwhelming and had so much time. I think having some sort of academic in between to challenge or rebut what they said would feel like well these are the trash men we are stuck with and they profit off stereotypes, just accept it.
In the same way that racism in America is a problem created by white people, misogyny is a man made problem and ultimately will only be solved when men change and take responsibility for their behaviors and actions. They have to be part of the conversation at some point.
I don’t disagree, but I would have preferred it be a middle episode, even second to last.
haven’t we heard enough about what men think? feel like i get that all the time, everywhere, nonstop. this isn’t what i thought she would pick as her finale. felt like she had all these episodes where there were good dialogue amongst woman, and to culminate the season…she invites guys that very much feed into the archetype of women in tv/film. while dialogue is important, I feel there would have been a better choice.
True! My professional life is focused on these issues and I don’t know what is the healthiest and most effective balance when dealing with centering white men’s voices. I do enjoy telling them that I typically don’t read books or consume content that is written, produced, or centers white men. Their heads explode. They accuse me of being sexist. I ask them when was the last time they read three books in a row written by women, listened to four hours of a podcast centering Black women’s voices, and watched a television series written by and centering women’s experiences.
They are silent at that point.
We certainly have heard a lot about what men think about women, and politics, and war and, and, and pretty much everything. What we don’t hear that much is what Trevor Noah was saying – how the societal expectations that men have created have put them in a box. Women are getting out of their boxes, but men seem stuck. And women, having grown up in the system, also help to keep men in the box with outmoded expectations of what it means to be manly. Open conversations like this can help shine a light.
i hear you. you’re right, dialogue is important. but i don’t completely agree with Trevor Noah tho. I feel like much of our expectations and dialogue about what is normal and expected for men and women is based almost completely what MEN (mostly what white straight men) have created. in that sense, they hold most of the cards and are more than capable of changing societal expectations of THEM. for example, normalization of stay at home dads is making that deviation more acceptable, but women are still encountering a lot of pushback in the work/career arena if they choose careers over family. so i don’t think their struggle is completely analogous to the box women have been placed into and we haven’t really climbed out of anything. we are trying to get a level playing field in the conversation of changing these boxes frankly. which is why i would much rather hear more female dialogue and perhaps in the second season bring multiple men and women guests together to have a joint dialogue.
@hangonamin – Oh yes, which is why I said “the societal expectations that men have created”, and I think Trevor was saying the same thing. And I don’t think anyone is saying that the struggle for men is the same as for women. It’s just that the world has changed. There is still a lot of pushback on women, but nowhere near what it used to be when women basically needed to be married in order to live – and that wasn’t so long ago. Still, the quest for autonomy isn’t over by any means.
Women are having these conversations, pushing toward the future and looking to leave the old structure behind. They’re not just talking about a level playing field, they’re talking about a different game altogether, played on a different field. And men, who built the structure, can’t see how the old definitions of masculinity don’t work anymore – that they are actually harmful to their health and well-being. It’s a very interesting transitional time we’re in.
I think a joint dialogue on this is a great idea.
I have about 20 minutes to go but so far I really like it. I get that its longer than the other episodes, but I think that makes sense because here she has on three main guests, and in a lot of the other episodes there’s only one or two “main” guests who get the bulk of the time, and then she has a few side guests (usually the experts who come on for a bit.) So it makes sense that this one is longer. (for example the episode with mindy Kaling, which was primarily Mindy although I remember a few quotes from other people) was about 45 minutes long. the Mariah Carey episode was 45 minutes long. So from that perspective it makes sense that this is longer.
I also think she let the men talk more and asked fewer questions bc there wasn’t a specific direction to this episode. It was about archetypes in general and dismantling those and what role men play; in previous episodes she was trying to direct her guests to specific archetype discussions, so the conversations were more guided.
Anyway like I said I really like this episode, still have to finish but so far I’m a fan.
I’m not really a fan of anyone in this podcast. For me personally, I would have liked to see more people from different areas throughout the series. There was a heavy focus on people in the entertainment industry. Why?? They are involved in all these charities, they have friends and contacts across many governments, etc etc and most (not all) of the guests were actors or actresses.
I am also really floored by the fact that she was trying to be on the Real Housewives and loved it. My general impression of her is that she wouldn’t have any interest in such a trashy reality show, but I was wrong. No offense to anyone that enjoys those shows, it is just not the vibe I got from her. I watch trashy Korean dramas but I am pretty sure that is the least surprising thing anyone could find out about me hahaha.
No, she wanted to be booked on Cohen’s talk show, Watch What Happens Live.
Not on RH but his talk show….can you please go back and re-listen to it again? his talk show not RH. I am not trashing on or even judging RH; it is not my type but a lot of people do enjoy those reality TV shows
This post is such a textbook example of what happens when folks NEGLECT FACTS, especially ones that are easily accessible, and just run amok substituting their own BELIEFS for objective, verifiable reality. This promotion of BELIEFS above FACTS is actually one of the insidious, endemic problems of social media.
For the record, no, Meghan wasnt “trying to be on the Real Housewives.”
It’s also a textbook example of NOT reading the article before commenting. I’ve been guilty of that usually due to the headline having me laughing too hard. It’s how derangers, RR’s/BM operate-willful misrepresentation. Loved that they laughed about the Real Housewives of Montecito (and BH) considering that’s what the RR’s/derangers were thinking that was Meghan’s only option.
@Kingston — this is absolutely excellent!
“This post is such a textbook example of what happens when folks NEGLECT FACTS, especially ones that are easily accessible, and just run amok substituting their own BELIEFS for objective, verifiable reality. This promotion of BELIEFS above FACTS is actually one of the insidious, endemic problems of social media.”
I really thought the internet will solve so many of the information asymmetry that exists in the world; instead the internet and everything around it have made it worse; people have become so lazy to check and do some basic reading on their own….everything has to be quick and easily digestible!
Haven’t listened to this one yet but as a mother of a son and daughter I have long said that until we figure out how to raise our boys to be feminists and figure out how to make space for letting them embrace more traditionally feminine behaviors and interests without devaluing any of that, we’ll be fighting the same battles. My son is and always has been a soft person. He’s super empathetic, he cares so much. Of course we as his parents have always encouraged that but even some of the most progressive people we know have occasionally said really dumb shit about boys and behaviors and crying. The toxic masculinity in our society runs deep.
Anyway my point is, I think getting perspective from men who have influence is helpful in figuring out how to make the above happen and continue to push forward for women, esp when 2 of the 3 have a real impact on how women are shown to society through reality tv and movies. Without listening I don’t know what they said, but I’d sure love to know what Andy Cohen has to say because he’s single-handedly made a lot of women look horrible and stereotypical.
I will never forgive Judd Apatow for giving us Lena Dunham.
Skipping this one.
Interesting choices and to end the podcast season with an episode of men. I can’t stand Judd Apatow and I’ve hated most of what he’s directed or produced. I have never understood the Real Housewives franchise and I don’t like Andy Cohen at all. I’m surprised Meghan used to be a fan?
I wish she had just interviewed Trevor Noah the entire episode, as a biracial man growing up during apartheid in South Africa, his entire life story is fascinating and I always enjoy his take on things. I would have preferred had she inserted it in the middle instead of letting men have the final word (though she does have the final word at the very end). I’ve only listened to the first episode so far but I have some long train rides next weekend so I can fill it up by listening to some more of Archetypes.
Yes, Trevor was the only good part of the show and I would’ve preferred to hear more from him. Also, why not include Harry in this particular conversation, it would be super interesting to hear his perspective.
Yep. Trevor was the only good part for me.
I do like Forgetting Sarah Marshall & I laughed at Bridesmaids but that may be it.
I’m waiting for them to drop the outtakes episode. All the interesting discussions that happened but didn’t fit for the the theme of episode. Maybe with some bloopers. Please oh please archetypes make it happen!
I haven’t heard this, yet, so I won’t comment on what was said. I do agree with those who said that choosing men who shape cultural ‘norms’ is who needs to be on this podcast. If Meghan can get them thinking of just ONE of the issues and changing something that they’re doing, think of the impact.
Judd Appatow? The same Judd who defended Lena? Who acted like Will Smith should be thrown in jail for life? That Judd?
Andy Cohen? The same Andy that has had legitimate lawsuits about racism going on behind the scenes at Bravo? The same one who ducked out at having any type of meaningful conversations about the BS that went down with RWoHollywood cast?
Trevor is problematic as hell.
It just feels really weird. She could have gotten truly feminist men on here if she wanted. Frankly I am wondering why she didn’t try for some like John Legend who has been calling out crap for a long time, there’s also the connection between her and his wife. Joseph Gordon Levitt is another good person that I would have called up too.
Read all the comments and listen to how judgemental many of you are. Women and men need to come to the table. As Meghan said, we have a voice, and others must listen. It goes both ways. Thousands of men in the universe have made disparaging remarks about women. There’s no such thing as a bad pick for this episode; it just wasn’t the men you wanted. When women are conversing, they are focused. Meghan’s questions were challenging for them. When was the last time you listened to a conversation between men about how women are viewed through their lenses? “Man in the Mirror.”
Completely agree! It was a good way to end this most excellent season. Surely there’ll be at least one more.
I know nothing about Andy or Judd other than they make movies and show. I like Trevor.However judging by lots of your comments I guess they aren’t the nicest or kindest or most understanding and thoughtful people or champions of women or race matters.Hear me out, maybe that’s why Meghan had them on, to show people that no matter how far she has come with this podcast in better understanding women and giving them room and space to be their everything, that they will always be men like Andy and Judd who couldn’t care less and will always stand in their way. Especially Andy. When he said he sees women as dramatic. I thought yes Meghan, give this sexist ass room to continue to hang himself, that way women can be content in their wisdom that yes, he is indeed that shallow
Thank you Kaiser for posting all these episodes every week that their aired.
I really enjoyed her her talk with Trevor and I think Meghan did too.
I listened to this after seeing a lot of the comments and conversation around it. I actually really enjoyed this episode. I liked listening to her conversation with Andy Cohen, and how she challenged him on some of his Housewives tropes and getting different perspectives from Gloria Steinem and Roxane Gay on the franchise. Judd Apatow seemed a bit of Hollywood shop talk so that didn’t resonate much with me but they had a good rapport . Trevor was my favorite part because I really like him and have heard him before on some great interviews. He’s just really interesting and I feel like he explored the topic more deeply than the other two. He really got the contradiction of being raised by women in a culture that can be hyper masculine and toxic towards women. Meghan sounded a bit like a big sister asking him if he wanted marriage and kids. Let him be,lol! Of course, this being men in the entertainment industry, you always think at some point these dudes might do something scandalous. Overall really enjoyable and appreciated this episode. I still prefer the women focused subjects but it added to the mix. What I liked about the series in general is that some of her guests aren’t always likable, or the perfect role model, but they all had something to say that made you think, disagree with or laugh. I really hope they have another season because there is so much more to explore, and hope they explore some of the politics that impact women in these fraught times, or what a good ally really is. She closed the season out perfectly. They tried to bury her,but didn’t know she was a seed.