NYT columnist hopes that Prince Harry eventually ‘lays down his title’

The unethical behavior of the British media should not be overlooked, especially as they report on Prince Harry’s many lawsuits against them. Instead of merely bowing out of trial coverage given the fact that Harry is literally suing all of them, the British media is instead willfully misrepresenting Harry’s lawsuits and statements and publishing screed after screed about how he’s going to lose, how he can’t “prove” that they’ve done anything to him, how he’s wrong to bring up all of these “old stories.” What’s worse is that I keep seeing the American media pick up parts of those same arguments. So it is notable (I guess) when the New York Times publishes a column about how Harry is actually quite noble for his war against Britain’s press machine. This was written by Tanya Gold, a British journalist who has worked for Harper’s, The Spectator and other outlets. Some highlights:

Harry is not a panda: Harry is determined to define himself, and not to be, in Hilary Mantel’s description in her essay “Royal Bodies,” a “panda”: “expensive to conserve and ill-adapted to any modern environment.” In this refusal to be the prince we wanted, or deserved, he has become something far more interesting.

An instrument all his life: Like his mother, Princess Diana, Harry has been an instrument all his life. The Windsor family is Britain’s national pantomime and he was cast at birth — long before he could give consent — to be the shade to the sunlight of his brother, William. The newspapers chronicled his childhood; his parents’ love affairs, late-night telephone calls and hatred. They photographed his mother as she lay dying in a tunnel in Paris. They filmed Harry as he, aged 12, walked behind her coffin at her funeral, his presence necessary to protect his father’s reputation. Even the British media wouldn’t heckle a faithless husband in front of his son.

Finally, someone admits the press’s treatment of Meghan: Then he married Meghan Markle, and when she was abused by the British media — which happens to all women who marry into the family, but this was a racist, classist and xenophobic variation — he did something sensible and loving for his new family: He left Britain.

Gold hopes he gives up his title: Since then his redemption has been sequential. There was the interview with Oprah Winfrey, in which they described his family’s concern about the skin color of their unborn child. There was a Netflix documentary. There was his memoir, “Spare,” in which he described how his father, probably smelling of flowers and gunpowder, sat down on his bed to tell him that his mother was dead. Now there is the litigation and, eventually, I hope, the day when he lays down his title, accepts that some things cannot be reformed and is redeemed by the application of self-knowledge.

Spare was a whistle-blower’s account: I read “Spare” as a portrait of an abusive childhood and an act of whistle-blowing, but most of the British media did not. They mocked him for writing about a youthful sexual encounter — how crass to mention it, now we must find the woman! — and for his affinity for Stewie, the infant prodigy in “Family Guy,” whom he described as “a prophet without honor.”

Brave Harry: Even to the sympathetic, Harry can seem ridiculous. He is a panda, and pandas don’t usually fight back. And for the moment he thinks he can be meaningfully feminist and antiracist while embodying inherited wealth and power as a royal duke, which is absurd. But Harry is brave, and he has found his battlefield. I think if he could, he would bring it all down — the monarchy, the media, the whole awful dance. We did not have his consent. For that, he will have his revenge.

[From The NY Times]

The thing I agree with the most is that Spare is a survivor’s account of his abuse, and a witness’s account of watching the women he loves be abused. It was also a whistle-blower’s account of the dysfunction and cruelty of the whole institution. What was still so brilliant about Spare though is that… now it’s a historical document. It’s Harry reclaiming his narrative and saying no, it happened this way, all of it without hiding behind palace insiders or royal sources.

Now, all that being said, I don’t really get this stuff: “eventually, I hope, the day when he lays down his title, accepts that some things cannot be reformed and is redeemed by the application of self-knowledge” and “for the moment he thinks he can be meaningfully feminist and antiracist while embodying inherited wealth and power as a royal duke, which is absurd.” Embodying wealth and power… when he literally had to flee his country to protect his wife and children? When his father yanked his security and left him for dead? This idea that “Harry’s “power” comes from his title or the money his dead mother left him in trust” is absurd at this point – people couldn’t care less about his title – what his supporters care about is his journey, his survival story.

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149 Responses to “NYT columnist hopes that Prince Harry eventually ‘lays down his title’”

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  1. Flower says:

    Their fantasy is that the only mixed race family is kicked out.

    Where is the same vim and vigour for Prince Andrew ?

    • theRobinsons says:

      Thank you Kaiser, well said!

    • Ingsoc says:

      Tanya Gold is an avid English republican, she probably hopes Harry to drop his titles as part of repudiating the monarchy.

      Unlikely to happen IMO, Harry and Meghan seem to be deeply offended that their kids weren’t awarded Princely titles.

      • C says:

        I don’t think they were deeply offended that their kids weren’t awarded Princely titles. They don’t need to be awarded them, do they? It’s automatic? Anyway, I too would be pretty adamant that if I had offered to give up my title and been refused, that my kids should get their titles as per the Letters Patent since my original offer was turned down.

      • Anna says:

        Think it was more the principle of the matter rather than the actual title that they were upset about it. Considering the amount of racism Meg and the kids have experienced, the BRF’s stalling on recognizing the change in title was more fuel to the fire.

        The fact that people still disregard that they were treated differently because of race is exactly why they made noise about it.

      • Mary says:

        @anna, 💯

      • Nerd says:

        Wanting and expecting your biracial children to be treated fairly and equally to their white cousins isn’t being deeply offended, especially when your biracial children have been racially discriminated against since before they were born. They have only addressed their children’s titles twice in the four years that Archie has been alive so it is inaccurate and wrong to say that they are the ones who are deeply offended by their children’s titles. Titles that their children are legally entitled to from the moment the queen passed away. The only ones consumed or offended with titles regarding Harry, Meghan, Archie and Lili Diana, are the haters who use that argument whenever they have nothing else to obsess and be angry about. All four of them are entitled to the titles they hold and all four of them are a better representation of their titles than any of the other royals, with exception of the other children, who have also done nothing wrong and don’t deserve to be attacked.

      • Aurelia says:

        They did not have to accept the titles. Princess Anne and Margaret as blood royals rejected them.

    • Jane says:

      Instead stripping Harry his Princely title — why don’t they upgrade it to Prince Harry the Valiant and Honest one; Honourable Duke of Sussex.

      • Lwin says:

        Harry MUST keep all the titles he has. It’s on principle. Regardless of race he and his family deserve the title as per British rules and no one will bully them out of them

  2. The Old Chick says:

    I remember Tanya gold writing for the Fail years ago. Sure, she’s made it slightly more US friendly but has to get those typical, BM talking points. I wondered where she’d slunk off to. Guess what, Tanya? Harry doesn’t need your advice. Btw Tanya used to whine endlessly about being bullied because someone called her fat. So she should take a few seats.

    • Shawna says:

      IIMHO, calling out fat-shaming should be okay and not called whining. I see that mean that she should have more empathy, but the word “whining” sounded to me kind of like you weren’t being empathetic either. But maybe I don’t know the full story there.

      • QuiteContrary says:

        Agree, Shawna.

      • The Old Chick says:

        That’s not what I’m saying at all, jeez. She was a bully at the Fail, as they all are. One person called her fat and she wrote about it endlessly. Fine for her to bully though. She gets to bully others so that’s ok?

    • TeamMeg says:

      As someone who works in the field, I would point out that the fat positivity movement is working overtime to de-stigmatize the word “fat”. From this perspective, using the word fat to describe someone is not fat-shaming. Belittling or judging someone for being fat is. There is a difference. I don’t know what was said about Tanya. It may have been cruel; I can’t speak to that. But I can speak to the idea that “fat” is not a dirty word.

    • beautifully broken says:

      Agreed!

    • The Old Chick says:

      That’s not what I’m saying at all! Jeez. She was a bully at the Fail, and one person called her fat and she whined about it endlessly. But it’s typical of Fail writers to bitch and moan at one crtitcism while handing it out. Obviously I don’t think shaming anyone is fine. 🙄🙄

  3. Harry can’t lay down his title. He was born a blood prince. He does like to be called by name without prince in front of it but he will always be a prince. I believe Harry is in a good place and knows that his family is sh*t but that being said I bet he would like to have his family be able to stop the sh*t and just be family. He can always have hope.

    • HiThere says:

      If someone born to be a King in the same family could lay down his title and walk away a hundred years ago, I struggle to see why a prince can’t do the same today.

      • Amy Bee says:

        @HiThere: I hope you’re not talking about Edward VIII who left the Royal Family and became the Duke of Windsor.

      • MrsBanjo says:

        Are you talking about King Edward’s abdication? That was because of his relationship (and attachment to H*tler). And he didn’t give up his titles. He abdicated as King but was made Duke of Windsor – a title.

      • @Hithere. Why should he have to lay down his title? He has done nothing wrong but tell the truth. Let’s leave Harry alone with this crap.

      • Julie says:

        Agreed. I don’t understand why he holds on to it. He has proven himself to be trailblazer, he and Meghan have made deals worth millions.
        He doesn’t need that title, Meghan herself said that her greatest title was Mom.

        Fans that bring up such things as birth right/blood prince, are indirectly supporting the Monarchy and the preferential treatment given to the first child, that very system that makes Harry the Spare.

        I can understand that Harry, having been a prince all his life, cannot fathom a life without that title, but hopefully he will get there someday.

      • @julie. He doesn’t use the title he always refers to himself as Harry so I think he can fathom being without it. The monarchy still exists whether we want it or not and as such he is a blood prince. No I’m not indirectly supporting the monarchy. It still exists and he is still a prince. I hope one day soon it comes to an end but until then…

      • Eleanor says:

        Same – the house is on fire. Leaving behind the things that do not serve your life to protect those that do is brave. The discussions about nepo-babies is always fun for me. My plumber, dentist and doctor are all born into the family business (like Tom Hanks’ son) and I am fine with it. Being born into power, political or otherwise, is where I draw the line. This whole “bloodline” thing is from another era.

      • RoyalBlue says:

        My God is this a joke now? He offered to give up his title and it was rejected. The concept of ‘titles’ persistently looms in the minds of royalists, because they have been programmed to believe that a title puts someone in a higher class and therefore the titleholder is worthy of greater reverence than their own mother or father. When all it is, is an artificially manufactured construct. It’s like those silly ribbons they give to Sofiesta and Zara’s husbands for sticking around, and to Kate, for turning a blind eye to her husband’s infidelities. They get these sweet rewards, for nothing.

        And which title should he give up? The Duke of Sussex? Then he will be known as a Prince. Is a title something that can be given and taken at one’s whim and fancy? Then it becomes a cheap little bargaining toy. This royal title stuff is enshrined in the DNA of the class structure and what it means to be British. They are bound by the social order and Harry can no more give away being a prince than he can being 6’2″. This is a covenant that is passed on through the bloodline. The concept of Monarchy will never be over unless the People say it’s over. Those European countries have pretenders to the throne hanging around, still referring to themselves by imaginary titles.

      • Pauretajt says:

        No one lay down title anytime ago. Please stop with the misinformation. Even other monarchies that have ended, the line still use their titles publicly today. Greece, Germany, Yugoslavia, name it and they all still refer to their royal name/title. (Crown prince of a country that doesn’t exist anymore) .

        And so shall they always be.

        His Royal Highness Henry Charles Albert David
        the Duke of Sussex
        Rachel Meghan Her Royal Highness the Princess Henry
        the Duchess of Sussex

    • Seraphina says:

      Exactly! It’s his birthright. Just because they left doesn’t mean he is required or should drop his birthright.
      They can take away his security and cut him off but that name is his.
      Also, it’s very important that he keep it because one never knows what those vipers may try if he drops his birthright.

  4. Snuffles says:

    People need to stop telling Harry he should give up his title or demand he get stripped of it. One day he might, but it will be HIS choice and on his own time table. Also, people need to stop trying to use him as a cudgel for whatever their personal beliefs or goals are.

    There could be numerous reasons why he still keeps them. It’s his birthright, he still believes in the POTENTIAL of the monarchy even if all the current heirs are absolute shit. He believes he needs it to get and maintain the security he has.

    • Mary Pester says:

      @Snuffles, Harry did offer to hand back his Duke title, but Charlie boy refused, NOT, I hasten to add out of love for Harry , but in my opinion just to make himself look good. He will not and should not “lay down the title of prince, as that would affect his children’s future, as should (god forbid) anything happen to Harry and Megan, the Royal family would be duty bound to protect those children. I firmly believe that Charlie is leaving that title” Duke “in place, until a massive event takes place behind Palace walls and they need a massive distraction from it (Kate and William anyone). Then when he steps in and says he is removing Harry’s title, THAT will be the headline. The thing is they have forgotten that people are wise to them now, and will see right through the Palace two step

      • one of the marys no says:

        “the Royal family would be duty bound to protect those children”
        God forbid those children are ever at the mercy of the RF. Didn’t they have a duty to protect Prince Harry the Queen’s grandson? Apparently they didn’t agree with that assessment and repeatedly undermined his safety.
        I agree with you mary they’ll save the removal of the title for a big distraction. Perhaps they’ll be asked to give up the title the way they were asked to vacate Frogmore

      • Jais says:

        I wonder if Charles now regrets not taking Harry up on his offer to give up his titles. I think he wishes there was some way to do it without creating any backlash for himself.

      • Flower says:

        Chuckles refused the handing back to protect his deal with Andy which he needed to close before Mummy went to the Bucks Palace in the sky to allow him to call Camilla Queen.

  5. ThatsNotOkay says:

    Hmm. I don’t hate what’s she saying here. Agree with most of it. Harry can do whatever he wants with his titles, but she’s right that his reputation, wealth, status, privilege all originate from an institution that is deeply racist, sexist, colonialist, etc. There is a disconnect in upholding the traditions of that institution (in her example, keeping his titles) while suggesting you’re against the things the institution stands for. It’s trying to have it both ways–that’s what she’s saying. And I can’t say she’s wrong. It’s up to him how he wants to reconcile that–for instance, if he found a way to use his duke title to win reparations for the peoples his family and the power structure in Britain has wronged, then I’d say more power to him and long live the duke.

    • HiThere says:

      Thank you.

    • OriginalLaLa says:

      I agree – she isn’t wrong when she points this out

    • MrsBanjo says:

      He offered to give up his titles. It wasn’t accepted. He talked about it in his interviews. The offer wasn’t accepted, probably because of the domino effect it would have for everyone who’s titled – especially the aristocracy and the RF. Because if titles can so easily be removed, what’s the point of them in the first place? Those people know that without the titles they’re nothing, and they can’t abide the loss of status and class bullsh*t.

      • Amy Bee says:

        @MrsBanjo: Thank you for reminding us that Harry did offer to give up the titles and the Royal Family refused to do it. It’s up to the Royal Family to strip him of his titles now.

      • Shawna says:

        And all of those titles have an “of” for a reason: they indicate what land/estate the monarch gifted your family. Now that most of these estates were gutted after the death taxes following WWII, there’s a hollowness to most of the titles. So those who don’t have the property to back up their title would be more exposed.

      • aftershocks says:

        This has been discussed so many times. Sigh. As others have stated, Harry offered to give back the Sussex title. Seemingly, it was a gesture, demonstrating Harry’s willingness to do so, such that palace courtiers and his Pa would know they couldn’t use the title as a stick to beat him with, like they did the removal of his patronages, and his courtesy military honors.

        Plus, as it has been previously stated, it’s not a usual thing to ‘remove British titles.’ Unless the law is changed giving the monarch the right to remove bestowed titles, it would have to be done via an Act of Parliament. And this never happens lightly. There’s no precedent for the British Parliament to remove a royal title because a prince is no longer a senior working royal, and he no longer resides in Britain. There’s no treason or other crimes involved, so these uninformed demands and opinionated commentaries are annoying and useless.

    • Lia says:

      +1. I want him and Meghan to thrive and be successful outside of that racist and archaic institution, but it’s not lost on me that if the family had accepted Meghan he would have been happy to continue being part of the system, even going as far as saying that it would have been good for the Commonwealth.
      I think Harry deeply believes in and respects the monarchy still, which is understandable since he was born into it. But it’s also understandable to point out that the institution will never be reformed, so it’s a bit anticlimactic to hold out hope for change.

      • TheWigletOfWails says:

        @lia, the BaRF whether we like it or not has a huge platform and he and Meghan are all about using their platforms to do good and actually make a change. Harry wouldn’t have been able to get the Invictus games up and running if he was just Mr Harry Windsor. The Sussexes don’t care about the titles or being bowed and curtesied to the way the others are.

      • aftershocks says:

        ^^ I disagree that a normal citizen, unattached to royalty couldn’t have created or gathered support for getting a project like Invictus off the ground. Obviously, Harry’s status and connections allowed him to launch Invictus fairly quickly and successfully. It would likely take more time and headaches for a less high profile person. But achieving such lofty aspirations, as a regular human being, is not impossible. For example, Greta Thunberg, et al.

    • Ginger says:

      Harry DID offer up his title and it was refused. It’s up to the RF to determine this. If he IS stripped of his dukedom he is still a Prince by blood. He will always be known as Prince Harry, a member of the royal family. I think some want him to be stripped of his title so Meghan can be stripped of her title as well.

    • OnThisDay says:

      Yes, Gold is right. The Royal family is an antisocial, supremacist institution. All the supremacies – racial, gender, class, nation! It isn’t neutral or benign any more so than the KKK could ever be. Its the symbolic and material center of the UK’s social domination, and its legacy is the suffering of nations all over the world still recovering from colonialism. The RF actively harms and does so unrepentanly. The individual members can be “good,” “nice,” well-intentioned” in an institution that harms. Saying otherwise is like praising the “kindly slave master” for not utterly brutalizing his “property.OK, but it’s still slavery!!
      It doesn’t matter that these are Harry’s relative. Renouncing his position as prince is not renouncing his identity as Charles’ son, William’s brother, etc. Instead it would represent an acknowledgement that that the royal family as an institution is illegitimate and an instrument of violence. But he’s an apologist for the institution! (I read Spare.) A good, nice, well-intentioned,charismatic, handsome apologist (with a compelling story that I can’t get enough of despite all my criticisms. Argh!!!)

      (Now lemma get off this soapbox and get some coffee.)

      • Brassy Rebel says:

        @onthisday: I absolutely love your comment. And those who say that the biracial members of the family must keep supporting the racist system of titles and honors because the white members do are missing a key point: you cannot fight racism by participating in it.

      • FHMom says:

        The truth hurts but it needs to be said.

      • sayitLOUD says:

        Can we vote to highlight a comment? PERFECTION.

      • Yvette says:

        @OnThisDay … Harry can’t give up his ‘Prince’ title because he was born with it. He ‘can’ give up the Duke title, which is what he attempted to do during the summit prior to he and Meghan leaving. Even without the Duke and Duchess titles Harry and Meghan will forever be the Prince and Princess Henry of Windsor.

        This is an Opinion Piece in the New York Times. The British media are using these ‘Guest Columnist’ Opinion pieces in major U.S. media outlets to state that Americans have turned against Harry and Meghan and this is the evidence the Heritage Foundation will use in their Appeal for Harry’s VISA application.

      • Blithe says:

        Here’s the fun part though: Yes, the BRF is actually and symbolically a racist institution. But so are many institutions. The argument that Harry, his biracial wife, and their mixed-race children should fling away their titles — or that white, male Harry should fling them away on their behalf — actually echoes centuries of racist arguments. Why would a POC want to go to an elite school, live in a formerly racially segregated neighborhood, or take a job formerly reserved for white men — when their/ our very presence suggests that they’re “upholding the traditions “ of those institutions? Gosh! The end result then becomes the very segregation that some are supposedly arguing against — except that it’s calling on the Sussexes — in this case — to banish themselves. Convenient, no? The end result will truly satisfy the racists, while accomplishing little else of import.

      • Blithe says:

        @Yvette, I’ve notice that the Yahoo front page has multiple articles daily, slagging the Sussexes and propping up the rest of the BRF, especially Camilla, and occasionally Kate, Charles, and William. They often link to articles from British papers. Why? Is there really that level of interest in the BRF among the sorts of readers who check out Yahoo as a source of news? I think you might be right about the long game here. The many articles and the truly awful comments are useful to whoever is funding the Heritage Foundation / intent on undermining Harry and Meghan.

        It’s bizarre.

    • Lionel says:

      Yep. This.

      • Brassy Rebel says:

        And it’s not up to the royals to decide if Harry keeps his titles. No one can force you to hold a title you don’t want and DON’T BELIEVE IN. Harry has already made clear that he still believes in monarchy. I hope that someday (sooner rather than later) he realizes that this is causing cognitive dissonance with his stated beliefs. I think this writer is just trying to point this out.

    • Christine says:

      Agreed, ThatsNotOkay.

      I think at this point, Harry and Meghan aren’t forgoing their titles because it is one of the main ways the royal family is STILL bullying them. Eugenie’s newborn is already on the line of succession, and everyone who reads this site knows how long it took to get Lili added in the first place, and then the whole “master” and “miss” instead of “prince and princess” debacle.

      For those paying attention, the racism is right there to see, on the monarch’s own website. Keep the titles, Harry and Meghan, so the royal family and British media can keep showing their asses.

      When the royal family decides it’s time to strip Harry and Meghan of their titles, it will be another brick in the wall of taking down the entire aristocracy.

  6. Jais says:

    It’s also the revenge storyline that bugs me. The BM like to paint him as some vengeful court-thirsty suing machine that’s lost the plot. Criminal acts were committed against him and Harry has every right to seek justice. Wanting justice and wanting revenge are not the same thing. Characterizing him as seeking revenge is purposefully evoking a negative connotation. It’s doing to him what this article purports has been done to him his whole life.

    • Renae says:

      Living well is the best revenge.
      Title or not.

      • Jais says:

        True! Thus just by living his life, he already has his revenge, and so it has nothing to do with these court cases. Wanting to have a free and fair press that doesn’t operate as a protection racket is not about revenge. It’s about trying to make things better.

  7. Brassy Rebel says:

    I agree he is on a journey. And I think Gold agrees as well. But she is thinking ahead to where the journey is leading him and where it ultimately takes him. It’s difficult for Gold (or me, for that matter) to see this ending eventually in anything other than in the renunciation of all titles. She is correct that you cannot be anti-racism or feminist and support hereditary monarchy. Hell, you cannot even be for equality in general while supporting the British monarchy simultaneously.

    • ATN says:

      “ She is correct that you cannot be anti-racism or feminist and support hereditary monarchy. Hell, you cannot even be for equality in general while supporting the British monarchy simultaneously”

      Absolutely all of this.

      I’m sorry but it’s true. Monarchy is inherently classist and in GBs case, racist. What I see in Harry is someone who is fine living in a classist and racist institution as long as it’s not racist and classist to him.

      To me, that shows his journey is not over. I hope he gets there.

      Also, yes we all know he can’t officially remove his titles without an act of Parliament. But he could stop using them literally any time he wanted.

      • TheWigletOfWails says:

        @ATN, what would you have him call himself? It’s literally his name. Sure it’ll be nice to call the Sussexes Mr and Mrs Windsor but that is not their name. The only time the titles are mentioned is officially, otherwise they’re known as just (Prince) Harry and Meghan (Markle).

      • ATN says:

        @Wiglet- first of all that name is amazing

        I think he could go by Harry Montbatten-Windsor, like other males in his family, or Harry Sussex.

      • ATN says:

        Also , I don’t mean this in a snarky way, but Meghan’s name is Rachel and she manages to call herself Meghan, Duchess of Sussex- so I find the “how could he possibly go by something else?!?” to be a little insincere (for lack of a better word) when his wife literally does just that.

      • TheWigletOfWails says:

        @ATN, but Meghan’s full government name is Rachel Meghan, it’s on all her official documents. She’s still called Meghan Markle but officially that’s no longer her name. Per British aristocratic/royal naming conventions or whatever, he’s not Harry Mountbatten-Windsor or Harry Sussex and he can’t just go down to the courthouse and say he wants to change it to that. If you called him that I’m sure he won’t be mad at it but officially he can’t put that down as his name that’s all I’m saying.

      • ATN says:

        Ah ok- I see where I’ve been unclear.

        Yes I agree he can’t change his legal name like you or I can. But that’s not what I’m suggesting. I’m suggesting he can *go by* another name in the same way Meghan does, or Olivia Wilde does, or Katy Perry does, or Natalie Portman does…and so on.

      • Lorelei says:

        The way I read it was that it would be about Harry’s actions, not about Charles “accepting” it or even about the legalities. For example, if he writes another book, the author’s name would simply be Harry Windsor-Mountbatten (I assume he’d want to share the same last name as his children). Obviously everyone would likely still call him Prince Harry, just as we all still say Kate Middleton and Meghan Markle, but it would be about Harry personally deciding not to use the title anymore. JMO

      • TheWigletOfWails says:

        @ATN, but “Prince Harry” is his professional name as well just as Meghan Markle is her professional name and her actual name. It’s the name he’s always done business with.

      • ATN says:

        @Lorelei- all that exactly.

        @Wiglet, correct PH is his professional name. And he could go by another name if he wanted to, like myself and Lorelei have said. Im sorry, but at this point I think you’re practicing a bit of intellectual dishonesty if you are saying you don’t think that’s possible.

      • TheWigletOfWails says:

        @ATN and Lorelei, we do not know him personally, and we do not know what name he goes by in his private life and business. Like you said Lorelei, everyone will still call him Prince Harry. Other than satisfying random strangers, what will the non use of titles change? Will it stop the lies and abuse against himself and Meghan?

        Personally, I don’t think any of them should have titles. But if members of deposed monarchies are still called by their titles with no problems, why should he have to give his up? Let the BaRF & parliament take the correct steps to removing them. I’d gladly call Harry and Meghan Mr and Mrs Mountbatten-Windsors or Sussex or whatever.

      • ATN says:

        @Wiglet- speaking for myself, I don’t think he should do anything he doesn’t want to do. And it would certainly not stop the abuse against he and Meg. However, we *do* know he and those around him use these titles because it’s in his employees correspondence (see the recent story about the bike for Archie’s bday) and PH was the name he used on his book.

        All I am saying is that:
        1. I agree with Gold and Brassy Rebel and Lorelei that by still calling *himself* Price Harry, or Duke, or whatever royal title, *he* is signaling *his* support of the monarchy.

        And 2. *If he wanted to*, he could start asking that people call him another name, whether or not it’s his legal name. They stopped using HRH even tough they’re entitled to, right?

      • aftershocks says:

        ^^ Harry does support the monarchy. He just wants it to be better and to do better in the modern world. But he has no control or leverage to enact change. Yet, by taking a courageous step away to protect his marriage and his family, Prince Harry has done more and given up more than all the people declaring what he needs to do. This goes for equally clueless haters, royalist fans, Brit Republicans, die-hard Sussex supporters, and sideline observers.

  8. Sunshine says:

    Tanya Gold remains consistent in her ranting. The last one I remember was her horrible take of Finding Freedom.

    But to be fair, she is anti monarchy, so her take is not a surprise.

    • kirk says:

      Sounds like Tanya is one of those disingenous Brits who claim to be anti monarchy, but won’t put in real effort at persuading their fellow Brits to give it up. Instead she opines in NYT for $$$, moderating her usual Spectator-y anti-HM stance Brit stance for American taste. I’m guessing she was unable to sell story to Spectator since the Torygraph group is trying to sell itself, unable to service its debt.

    • ATN says:

      I do think it’s important to differentiate between people who are monarchists that just don’t like Harry and Meghan, and anti-monarchists who don’t like the whole system in which H&M are included.

      They are different opinions and criticisms.

  9. ShazBot says:

    I think she’s touching on something a lot of people have noticed – Harry isn’t anti-monarchy, he’s pissed the system didn’t work for him. If they’d been nicer to Meghan and more welcoming, we wouldn’t be here at all, so his personal growth is not yet done. He still sees the whole system as the media’s fault – not that the entire abusive structure is racist and classist and needs to change. It feels like he believes (or did when writing the book) that if he could just save his family from the media, the cloud over their eyes would lift and all would be well. He doesn’t see them for what they truly are.

    • ABritGuest says:

      Well Harry never said he was anti monarchy- he said in January in the Bradby interview that he still believed in it. He & Meghan said on Oprah if they had been supported they wanted to find a way to work in the system. It seems he thinks it can be a force for good & my guess is that he thinks it needs reform & more open/progressive thinking. He talked about the Dutch monarchy being able to have discussions about his colonial past.

      Whilst I fundamentally disagree with him on this & am not here for representation politics, it’s not his fault that his criticism about palace/family treatment means that people think he’s anti monarchy or hates his family when his own words say otherwise eg talking about still loving his family & wanting constructive discussions to resolve issues.

      In an article about phone hacking’s impact the whole bringing up of titles thing seems to suggest give up titles & maybe you will get peace. But why isn’t Tanya asking why her press friends are still harassing Harry despite him giving up public funding & returning Frogmore money like they requested in 2019 & 2020. Plus how does giving up titles stop Harry from being the son of a king & Diana, having the wealth & fame from that position? The press’ behaviour since leaving public duties suggests he still would be harassed the same way & that’s the key part of his case & issue with the press.

      I don’t think people like Tanya who writes for pro establishment media like the spectator, come to this from a good place. Most of these types absolutely support the aristocracy & status quo but mainly want Harry to drop titles so mixed race Archie isn’t a Prince or Duke of Sussex one day

      • Ginger says:

        And lets not forget that Meghan wanted this to work as well. They BOTH would have stayed, happily, if the press and RF would have been nicer.

      • Jais says:

        Yes, it’s coming from a disingenuous place. Harry already offered up the titles. Like you said, @arthistorian, why doesn’t Tanya Gold focus on the issue of titles as a whole? But that’s not what this is about. It should be about the issue of phone hacking and criminality. Harry’s title hasn’t protected him from these criminal acts. And Harry giving up his title isn’t going to protect him either.

    • Caribbean says:

      I hate us fans saying ‘nicer’ suggesting that the problem is that the other Royals (Harry is Royal and Meghan is Royal by marriage) and the press was nice. The other Royal and media were tolerant and waiting and then they unleashed all manner of evil

      When I hear people say H&M are attacking ‘the Royals’ I SMH; H&M make up the royals !!!

  10. Amy Bee says:

    Yeah, I saw another British journalist saying the same thing about the title. Some people in the British media have built up this image of Harry as a rebel prince and they can’t let it go. If the Royal Family had treated him and Meghan right they would still be there. Don’t get me wrong, I’m anti-monarchy but I don’t think Harry should give up his title. One of the most liberal politiciana in British history was Tony Benn who was an aristocrat.

  11. Eurydice says:

    It’s worth reading the whole piece, rather than just the excerpts, because it has a more consistent narrative and is more pro-Harry than what we see here.

    And sorry, but I’ll disagree. Harry does embody inherited wealth and power. Just because Charles and William have more wealth and power doesn’t mean he isn’t part of and a symbol of that world. He’s a Prince and a Duke and that’s why people are passionately following his story, as opposed to some other random dude who trying to do good works. But the difference between him and his family is in how he’s chosen to deal with his legacy. He’s determined to live a free and useful life and, as the author says, that’s a very brave thing. And I think this is why the author feels Harry should give up his title – it would the final freedom. I don’t know if Harry wants to give up all of his heritage, that’s up to him.

    • kirk says:

      Does Harry embody wealth and power? Some. But when he walked away from “working royal” his ‘power’ was diminished since he was no longer acting as official representative of monarchy. Also you need to subtract the cost of paying for his family’s security from whatever Diana left him to get a true picture of his ‘wealth.’

      • Eurydice says:

        “Embodies” means representation, not ownership. Many aristocrats haven’t got 2 cents to rub together, but they still represent the privileged class.

      • Lorelei says:

        He definitely still wields power that he has because of his title and who he is. For example, when he and Meghan came to NYC the first time and were officially met and greeted by the governor (and some other local dignitaries, I don’t even remember who) — obviously that doesn’t happen for just anyone. And it doesn’t just happen for random celebrities visiting the city. He is still a big deal in those kinds of situations because of the fact that he’s a Prince. I don’t really have an opinion on it either way, it’s just a fact. IMO

  12. Shawna says:

    I assume this person intends H to lay down both the Prince and Duke titles…? It’s absurd either way. He was born to this. His titles aren’t an appendage or covering or tint; they’re inside him and determine how he’s perceived. They’re a result of his bloodline and are built into his body, and as he grew up they determined nearly everything around him and his future. He clearly struggles against a lot of the “consequences”/“trappings” of his identity, but he’ll never disown the past, and it would be denial to pretend he could shuffle off the pain and experiences with the titles. He affirms who he is, and part of that is the title. It’s not that he’s vain about his title or regressively holding onto it or needs it to prop up his income, as people seem to think. In a way, he’s been punished with and by his title, so how would it be a punishment to take it away?

  13. Angie H says:

    How very British & really many other societies who act and truly believe institutions can’t change. The US was built on new ways & new types of institutions. Change is hard & multi-faceted – for example his chance at change is a part of the much larger tailwind that monarchies no longer rule – and a large part of my so much nonsense is treated by courtiers & media as A Big Deal – voices are loud bc stakes are so low. Institutions can change — but it’s hard.

  14. Maxine Branch says:

    Harry’s grandmother bestowed the title of Duke of Sussex on him. For him perhaps this is his way of honoring his grandmother by keeping this one legacy she left him that was not stripped away, while stripping him of other honors that he was given with the exception of his military honors which he he earned. There is nothing left for some folks to grumble about but the Duke of Sussex title. Becoming a prince was not his choice it was something he was born into. Harry like so many inherited either wealth, property or just the family name (think Anderson Cooper). To suggest in any manner that his inherited wealth taints him is ludicrous. He did not steal it or rape and rob other countries to acquire it, this is a part of his family’s legacy. If he is judged in this manner then pretty much all descendants of wealthy families should be judged as such. It to me is not what you inherit but the manner by which you use your inheritance. And thus far this young decent man is doing a heck of a job in sharing as well as using his voice to speak on the inequalities that exist in all families because of lineage.

  15. Smices says:

    I hope he never gives up his titles. It would make all the wrong people smugly happy, while doing nothing to address and uproot the rot and corruption inherent in the class system that it sprang from.

    • equality says:

      Exactly. Well put. As long as the white family members hold their titles, the biracial family should be allowed theirs.

    • Lorelei says:

      I basically agree with you, but I think what would truly make them happy is if the titles were stripped, because they want to see him punished and want to see the BRF “win” so it would be more satisfying to them if the change was forced upon him. If he announced himself that he wasn’t going to use the titles anymore, they’d probably still find a way to be smug, but there also might be a (totally disingenuous) bit of “How dare he! How disrespectful to the Crown!” blowback, because, again, they don’t want to see him exercising his autonomy, they want him *punished* and they want to criticize every single thing he does for the rest of his life. They’re disgusting people.

      • Jais says:

        But for some, I think they don’t care if the titles are stripped or whether Harry gives it up himself because the goal is ultimately the same. To have Meghan and the biracial children not be in the line of succession.

    • Christine says:

      I completely agree. It’s REALLY clear everyone in the British media and royals on Salty Isle want Harry and Meghan to renounce their titles. It would be like Christmas for them.

      They know they hold no power to take away the titles, or else the entire sham of a societal system in England is in danger of falling apart. Make King Chuck ask parliament to strip his son of his titles, and the entire house of cards falls down. I can see this being the endgame.

  16. Tessa says:

    Harry is entitled to keep the titles and should. Meghan is his wife and upon marriage got titles she is entitled to. The titles are their childrens birthrights.

    • Kathleen says:

      So, you support and celebrate institutions that are based on inherited privileges? Interesting stand.

    • TangerineTree says:

      @Tessa. Exactly. H&M know what they are doing to make good choices for themselves and their family.

  17. Pumpkin says:

    I think some monarchists and even some fans think Harry is a (british) Republican/anti monarchist. He isn’t. He has not said he doesn’t think the monarchy as an institution shouldn’t exist. What he is against is how it’s run and certain people who run it. As well as how the British media and the monarchy have this toxic relationship which resulted in Harry’s every mistake being splashed out on the front pages and in general Meghan and his children being treated as second class citizens by both the people in the monarchy as well as the press.

    If the people in the monarchy and the media treated them with decency, H&M would still be working royals. They did not leave because they hate monarchies and think they should exist, they left because of how they were personally treated. Which was and still is, horrific and completely understandable why they did.

    As for the titles, I don’t really care what they do or don’t do with it. It’s up to them really.

  18. JCallas says:

    What does Harry gain by giving up his title? He is still a Windsor. The British and right wing press will still hound him and his family.

    • Boxy Lady says:

      Right? I mean, he’s already left his home country but he’s still hounded and he’s still the subject of derogatory and made-up stories in the UK; he *doesn’t even live there* now.

    • Em says:

      I genuinely believe they don’t actually care about prince Harry having his title. In fact they probably are neutral or like that he’s a prince. It’s Meghan they want to see ultimately stripped of her title. They’re racist af and they despise her. They can’t stand that she has a royal title, so only way to accomplish her losing it is via her husband. They tried ruining their marriage and it didn’t work.

      • TheWigletOfWails says:

        This. Royal_suitor on Twitter has a series of articles explaining this perfectly.

        If they’re perfectly ok with referring to members of abolished monarchies by their old titles, why do they expect Harry to give his up (when he’s the son of the current monarch and in line to the throne)?

  19. IRONE says:

    No one will strip Harry of his titles, but his brother will strip Archie and Lili’s titles. This is the first thing he will do when he becomes king.

    • MrsBanjo says:

      If he tries it (and it would involve Parliament going along with it) he’ll find he’s the reason the entire institution crumbles. Harry’s offer to give up his titles was rejected because they know that the existence of the Royal institution and the aristocracy hinges on the titles being permanent.

      William would be stupid if he tries to do what Charles damn well knows that he can’t. Here’s hoping he’s that stupid because there shouldn’t be monarchies and aristocracies in the 21st century.

      • IRONE says:

        Harry’s situation is different, as he was born a prince and his father is a king and the world adore him and his mother. The children were not born prince / princess, their father is not a king, and they are not “working royals” lol. Most people still don’t refer to them by their titles, including their father. I think he’ll follow in Queen Margaret’s footsteps and people won’t care.

      • Saucy&Sassy says:

        IRONE, I think what people tend to forget is that H&M didn’t create the letters patent that gave A&L titles. That happened long ago and has been used to bestow the HRH Prince and HRH Princess Titles to the Monarch’s grandchildren. That’s simply a fact. If those titles are taken away from the children, the biracial children, that’s going to send a very strong message globally. I realize that the UK government is doing everything in it’s power to become a very isolated place–and immigrant free. They are being watched, and judged, globally. What is the message that they want to send the world?

        I think where the titles have any importance is to tell KFC & UK that the biracial grandchildren are not going to be written out of history or ignored. They exist. KFC and Fails need to put their big boy pants on and accept it as does the UK as a whole.

    • Tessa says:

      He should try it and find out what a mess he creates. There will be questions of Charlotte and Louis keeping their titles since they are not direct heirs.

      • IRONE says:

        They are not direct heirs, but they will be the king’s children. Also, I don’t think anyone will bother questioning their titles, it’s only Archie and Lili’s titles that bother people.

      • Saucy&Sassy says:

        IRONE, biracial children.

      • Tessa says:

        There was.talk of younger children of.the monarch not getting titles

  20. Ace says:

    I think hoping Harry decides to give up his titles is all well and good (I’m anti-monarchy myself), but it’s also people being naive or not wanting to understand where he comes from.

    Harry is a monarchist and it looks like he thinks the monarchy biggest problem is its relationship with the press. It’s unsurprising he doesn’t see (or wants to see) the rotten parts of it, because it’s his family and because, somehow, he grew up in it and wasn’t completely corrupted by it. He probably wants to think that deep down his father, and even his brother, would do the right thing if it wasn’t for the pressure the press puts on them. It must be very hard to come to terms with something like that, specially when he’s already done the work of leaving the cult that is the Firm. Maybe he’ll never get there, and honestly I can’t blame him for that although I think all monarchies should be abolished.

  21. Mslove says:

    I think titles, the aristocracy, the monarchy are the ultimate in absurdity. Thank god Harry doesn’t think he’s better or above everyone else. I love his compassion & eagerness to help those in need.

  22. QuiteContrary says:

    I loathe the monarchy but I don’t think Harry should give up his titles (as ridiculous and artificial as such titles are).

    Meghan, Archie and Lili shouldn’t be erased from the hierarchy. It would please the racist royalists too much.

    • HamsterJam says:

      Exactly! Why give the racists what they want?

      • OnThisDay says:

        Yes, racist would want them to be erased from the hierarchy, but hierarchy is the problem! Hierarchy is inequality. Why would we want them or anyone else to take an elevated position above others? We want equality, right?

      • Julie says:

        Replace the word monarchy/hierarchy by KKK , then repeat this thought. Harry and Meghan are part of the KKK, why should they leave the KKK? We dont want them to leave the KKK because it would upset the racists. Why should the only biracial members of the KKK leave?

      • Saucy&Sassy says:

        OnThisDay, yes, we want equality. The way to get equality is to remove the titles of EVERYONE and not just the biracial members of the family.

      • Feeshalori says:

        Like it or not, there should be no talk about removing Harry’s titles unless the discussion/action is expanded to remove everyone else’s.

  23. aquarius64 says:

    There is no mechanism to take Harry’s title unless Harry colluded with a hostile foreign power like Russia to overthrow the UK government. The bill in Parliament moving for the sovereign to strip titles opens up the king or queen to go after anyone with a title without due process. QE2 reactivated the Duke of Sussex title to be hereditary, to be passed to the eldest in wedlock son. Archie is the heir. Frankly I believe some don’t like the idea of a future Duchess of Sussex potentially looking like Ms. Doria.

    • PJ says:

      Exactly. I made this same argument on twitter. Someone asked why he would want to hold on to something that had caused him so much pain, but I disagree that the title is the cause of the pain. That’s the tabloid press, the BM and the BRF.

      I also think his father refused his offer to relinquish the Sussex title because the Queen was still alive and SHE bestowed that title upon Harry. They didn’t want QEII to know how badly they were treating him plus it would set a dangerous precedent for the rest of them. If they took the Sussex title from Harry, then there are a lot of other non-working royals who could lose their titles as well. And Parliament would have to get involved.

      He’s allowed to want his children to have the legacy of those titles, whether they use them or not.

  24. Nlopez says:

    How about Andrew lay down his title. They are more worried about an innocent man,Harry, than a pedophile. SMH

  25. Janice Hill says:

    First of all, Harry got that title from his grandmother, and they would have to pry it from his hands. And second, what has Harry ever said or done to indicate he would like to get rid of the monarchy? If the writer had done her research she would know that Harry, if he could, would be more likely to force them all into family counseling.

  26. C says:

    I’ll have to politely disagree that this article is really that sympathetic. It’s not *vicious* of course but it seems to me it’s just kind of repeating the same British media talking points: why do they still have titles, Harry wants revenge, etc.

    As for the titles – yes, they did offer to give them up. Aside from that, I think it’s true that the title can represent a terrible legacy incongruous with progressive change, but I feel like to demand Harry give his up is an acknowledgement of how bad the monarchical system is in the first place and should be dismantled first before he is “punished” as it were (i.e., if titles still exist, I see no reason why Harry should give his up merely because he wanted to make his own decisions).

    Of course we know Harry is still a monarchist, but I feel like the author is still trying that old bait-switch to portray that he isn’t, because “Harry wants to burn everything down” (which is what she’s saying in the last paragraph) is what people who hate him like to say.
    So I feel like this article is just more of the same. NY Times has been leaning a bit conservative lately.

    • Eurydice says:

      But Harry is trying to take down the tabloids and, considering what he knows about their relationship to the RF, one doesn’t need to be a hater to know that the RF will be burned, too. Even staunch monarchists don’t believe the RF is pure as the driven show – they just believe the RF is entitled to do whatever it wants. Whether the burning is good or bad and deserved or not depends on POV, but some level of burning will happen.

      • C says:

        That’s one part of it but I don’t think, for him at least, this case is about uncovering how much his family has colluded with the tabloids even though some information about that will of course come out. The royals have power and use the tabloids for petty infighting but the more basic and deeper reason for their collusion with the tabloids is because they kind of have to, as Harry has said, and the rest springs from that. It’s the latter part he wants to illuminate: that these outlets still harassed and targeted him and the other royals the way they’ve harassed and targeted people like Hugh Grant and Sienna Miller. And I think that’s the reason he didn’t bring the case alone but with others like Elton John.

        Now, you could make all sorts of socioeconomic and political arguments as to why this situation arose, but I think the aforementioned is the main point of what he is doing.

      • C says:

        Also, I sort of think people are assigning a significance to his legal case that Harry never stated or intended – that it’s meant to be a way to attack the monarchy through the tabloids. But the author of this piece seems to be responding as if that is the case.

      • Eurydice says:

        @C – I agree. I also don’t think Harry’s primary motivation is to take down the RF. But he really would be a “thicko” if he didn’t realize and anticipate the effect on the RF of going after the tabloids. As I see it, Harry doesn’t care about the effect his actions will have on the RF. People can say it’s revenge or they can say it’s a healthy distancing from a toxic family, but however they spin it the effect is the same.

        And really, considering what Harry wrote in Spare, how the RF have treated Meghan and his children and how they refused to protect Meghan from the tabloids, Harry would have to be a major saint not to harbor some desire for revenge in his heart. Any normal person would feel the same and I think the press is extrapolating from that.

      • Jais says:

        There will be a certain amount of burning for sure. Due to the fact that the monarchy collaborates with the tabloids. It’s unavoidable if he wants to take the news barons to court. Is that revenge? I see it as a byproduct of pursuing justice. The BM see it as revenge but that doesn’t mean it is. Will Harry be happy that he’s shedding light on that invisible contract? Of course, it’s toxic and shadows do no good.

  27. BlueNailsBetty says:

    Harry isn’t seeking revenge, Tanya. He’s seeking justice.

  28. Is That So? says:

    I suspect that for Harry his title connects him to his mother and grandparents. He wants to be connected to his family of birth, problematic though they be.

    In the future King Willy the Incandescent might make the connection of being a Windsor prince distasteful, Prince Harry, Prince Archie, and Princess Lilibeth may put its use in abeyance.

  29. Christa says:

    I read the article as pointing out that you can’t have a system that is designed to give power and wealth to a person based on an accident of birth without creating unfair privilege. Harry benefitted from that privilege even if more of the wealth/power went to protecting the people regarded as essential to the system – the heirs. If the family wasn’t a nest of vipers and actually had some consideration and compassion for its “lesser” members, he might still be there.

    • Saucy&Sassy says:

      Christa, but anyone who has inherited wealth has unfair privilege. It’s simply is and there’s nothing we can do about it. What people choose to do with their privilege will tell you about them as a person. We can easily see this if you compare KFC, Fail, Wails, and Harry’s other uncles and aunt. What do they do with their privilege? What does that tell us about each of them?

  30. Anna says:

    I thought the article was really thoughtful actually, and I can see both viewpoints of title Vs no title. What I think is missed is that even if Harry were to renounce it, it’s still something that would define him. Yes, he’d be a private citizen and “just Harry” except he’s been the first for the last few years, and while he’s always told people to just call him Harry, whether he’s “officially” prince or not, that’s who everyone knows him to be.

    Maybe one day he’ll be more recognized for his charity work than the family he came from, but I would guess that’s a good while away, and wouldn’t erase his ties to the institution no matter how tenuous regardless. He would still be son of a king, after all.

    If he were to renounce the titles, it would be more a symbolic gesture than anything else.

    The existence of the titles and his decision to use or not use them seems more a mental exercise than anything else. Lord knows it won’t stop the likes of the BM or the BRF from continuing to treat them poorly.

  31. C says:

    Also I don’t know if this makes sense but I will say that one thing that kind of bugs me about the title discussion is that while I completely understand the idea that a royal title can be incongruous with progressive work in many ways, the problem is that philanthropy/activism is basically how ALL monarchies are rebranding these days to illustrate what they “do” – charity work, mental health, women’s advocacy, etc – not just the UK but in the rest of Europe etc. These families still reside in palaces and wear stolen jewels but they also do activist work, but the dissonance there doesn’t seem to get the same attention as discussing Harry giving up his title and I can guess several reasons why. I don’t mind the argument, but consistency would be nice, lol.

    • Jais says:

      Consistency would be nice. Yeah, that’s where I’m at. Like let’s take all the titles. Abolish the monarchy. But that energy needs to be just as equal to or greater than the energy over the discussion of Harry giving up his title. Which you know he already tried to do once. Focusing on Harry giving up his title, in an article about that should be more focused on criminal acts from the likes of MGM, Murdoch and Rothemere, while also characterizing Harry as a revenge-seeker as opposed to a Justice-seeker just doesn’t hit right. A lot of the points made in this article were really good and dead-on but a few just felt like echoes of propaganda lines from the BM and even republicans writers perhaps can’t escape how the tabs deep into their brains.

  32. Vi says:

    He would have to be a fool to drop those titles. Judging by the middletons, harrys line has a chance at the throne. Not Archie but I could see Archie grandkids getting a shot. With brexit and William looking shady maybe Harry & Archie do have a shot. The mishandling if brexit and the privatization of everything is creeping open the door.
    Unless parliament gets it together someone is going to yell for the king. It could happen.

  33. OnThisDay says:

    @Julie, thank you! That’s a great way of putting it.
    @SaucyandSassy, I get your point. But I’m saying that H&M choosing to opt out of the system is not a blow to equality. Its the exact opposite. Why? Because there’s no such thing as equality in a feudal institution so keeping their positions it the royal family isn’t an act of resistance. It’s participation!

    • Saucy&Sassy says:

      OnThisDay, how does Harry NOT be a Prince? How is that done? He is part of that family and always will be. It doesn’t matter whether he has the titles or not. What will change without them other than the Monarchy being SOOOOOOOOO relieved that the biracials aren’t titled. Other than that, Harry is always going to be a Prince. He will always be connected to the brf. It simply won’t make a difference, so why should he dis his wife and/or children?

  34. Nerd says:

    To me the discussion of dropping titles is a ridiculous discussion. He was born as Prince Harry, regardless of him dropping his dukedom, he is still Prince Harry, because that is who he was born as and will be to the general public regardless of what he calls himself or if he drops the title. I look at their dukedom titles as their marital names and what the world sees them as officially regardless of what they call themselves. Neither of them have done anything wrong so it is in my opinion a “Blaming the victim” approach to say that two people who have done absolutely nothing wrong should drop their titles when the extremely long list of other royals who have done wrong both legally and morally, are to keep theirs.

  35. HeyKay says:

    Here is a thought, instead of the bs of having Harry give up his titles, how about Charles and William do a better job of reconciling with Harry?

    Charles could easily end all this hostility towards Harry.
    QE made a point of saying Harry is a dearly loved member of the family, publicly.
    Why doesn’t Charles use his power as King, make a statement of “we wish them well” call off the tabs and press.
    What else has he got to do at his age? What is the good of being King if he loses his son, and grandchildren?
    The older those kids get, the less interest they are going to have in their UK relatives. If any.
    Charles and William could reach Harry privately and make peace.
    If they weren’t such stubborn, awful people.

    I keep thinking William especially needs to make peace with Harry.
    I do not think William has one true friend in the world, and when Charles passes, who will William have on his side?
    Will and Harry have been famous and in the spotlight from the day they were born.
    Titles or no, they each will be followed by the press forever. And so will their kids.

    I honestly think CA is too much of a celeb center.
    Their kids will be papped constantly, moving to CA makes it even more so.
    H&M and the kids especially are going to be bothered by the tabs and PR when the kids start school.

    And yes, Harry is going to keep his title because if they take Harrys title that will start a firestorm to make Andrew next. Start taking titles will be the first punch to end the Monarchy.

    • Saucy&Sassy says:

      HeyKay, actually CA has laws protecting the children against the very thing you’re suggesting.

      • Forgive the length of this post. Rushing out to work, no time to edit but just wanted to say that, judged by his ACTIONS, l believe Harry IS anti-monarchy however would be rash to announce it explicitly. The facts are that he has committed the ultimate damaging’ , ‘destabilising’’, ‘anti-monarchy’ act of loving and marrying a beautiful, accomplished , independent WOC and inserted her and their two beautiful children of colour into the UK royal bloodline… KABOOM already !!! Far from being a ‘thicko’ this incredibly bright, astute man has the smarts not to simply throw his power and platform (titles) away and retreat into anonymity but USE them to wage his epic press battle and to lead a global coalition of the good, great and willing to make a positive impact worldwide. If H & M we’re to come out today and flatly announce themselves to be ‘anti-monarchists’ I doubt they and their family – already in mortal danger – would be make it down the street the next time they leave the house (see recent co-ordinated NY chase/warning by the establishment). In short, Harry is playing a longer term, more subtle but more deadly effective game. Final thought on giving up titles: (1) Tina, Bianca, and millions of divorced women, but more importantly (2) being smart enough to recognise that getting Chuck/UK Parliament to pass legislation to allow stripping of the titles will be 1000x more effective in the long than simply giving up his own titles

  36. MelodyM says:

    Personally, I don’t give a hairy rat’s a$$ about the titles. Harry probably has a good reason for holding onto them. I trust him to do the right thing, esp for himself and his family.

  37. blunt talker says:

    Harry was born a prince-his father sits on the throne as King-he has two children that have titles-this is about trying to erase his children from the line of succession-his birth right is British and he got the titles for his children to have the option of working for the firm or not-he wants his kids to have choices-bottom line

  38. blunt talker says:

    PS- by the time William gets on the throne who knows how the monarchy will be-better or worse-Harry wants his kids to have choices and not be obligated to work in something they may not want to do.

  39. sammi says:

    Even Loose Women (which I do not watch but saw a clip on another you tube channel) was supportive of Harry’s legal battle. However, one presenter had to interject that it was a long time ago and the Media did not ‘hack’ now to which everyone agreed! How do we know? No one knew then so how are we certain now with all the advanced technology that this type of behaviour does not still go on?