I listened to most of the Duchess of Sussex’s Archetypes podcast episodes. Archetypes wasn’t a straight celebrity-interview pod, because Meghan wanted to dissect and dismantle some of the stereotypes holding women back, so in-between celebrity interviews, there were often comments and interview slices with experts, historians and academics, explaining *why* a certain stereotype exists or the history behind some racist or sexist trope. While some of the early episodes of Archetypes often felt too busy and over-produced, Meghan and her team hit their stride further into the first season, and they simplified things to make episodes flow better. Well, would it shock you to learn that Meghan did not conduct every single interview with every historian or expert or academic?
Meghan Markle didn’t always conduct her own interviews for the “Archetypes” podcast, according to Podnews. Instead, sources say her interview questions were edited in afterwards.
Markle and Prince Harry’s podcast in question ran 12 episodes and was part of a $20 million Spotify contract, the likes of which may not be paid in full because Meghan Markle and Prince Harry didn’t meet their deal’s productivity requirements (as reported by the Wall Street Journal).
“Not bad for 12 hours work,” said former chief economist at Spotify Will Page (at the 27-minute mark in the Podnews podcast), referencing the pair’s financial gains resulting from a relatively small output of work.
Based on Podnews’ report, Markle didn’t conduct the “Archetypes” podcasts herself and instead only lent voice clips for editing in after the fact. Even if the full $20 million figure from Spotify never materializes, it appears that a large portion of the sum will reach Markle and Prince Harry in exchange for — according to Podnews’ sources — perhaps even less than 12 hours of work.
Yeah, they’re not saying Meghan didn’t conduct ANY interviews – she clearly did conduct many of those interviews, and you can hear the conversational tone within the pod between Meghan and her guests. I suspect that Meghan’s staff did conduct some of the academic interviews, the shorter comments with that historian or academic, explaining this or that. And honestly, you can kind of tell in some of those episodes too – there were definitely some moments where I was more interested in the historical perspective behind a stereotype or trope, but there was just a short little clip from an academic before Meghan interviewed a celebrity.
That’s what a Gimlet editor told the Podnews person too:
fyi, some context here from a former gimlet editor. https://t.co/EsfNygQMhl
— Jody Avirgan (@jodyavirgan) June 19, 2023
Photos courtesy of Spotify, Instagram.
Sounds routine to me. I’m sure many, many podcasts are run this way. Meghan didn’t invent a new way of conducting interviews for podcasts. She has a team. They decided this was a good way to budget time and resources. Not getting the outrage here…
It is absolutely routine, especially in TV. The fake questions are absolutely cringeworthy on shows like Dateline and 20/20.
Yep, I think the real story to focus on here is that, among all the Spotify news that has come out on this subject (dropping M&H, the Obamas, etc.; letting a Spotify exec call M&H “f’ing grifters,” and say other vile and utterly unprofessional things about them; letting this story air unchecked without pointing out how entirely common that practice is, etc.), all while standing by Joe Rogan, is that Spotify has gone full Fox News/Truth Social in its choices.
Spotify is the one showing its true colors, and they are ugly.
I encourage you all to consider boycotting.
As a BTS fan, I’m on Spotify all the time, but our family will be discontinuing all our accounts as a result of what Spotify is showing us, with their unchecked slandering of M&H while supporting Joe Rogan.
And that is way more hours than just the twelve of the podcast’s airing. They’re still working hard at vilifying Meghan. Despicable. And I swear, they get lost while typing! She got 20 mill for 12 hours of work! No, she didn’t get paid the whole 20 ’cause she didn’t do enough work! Why, it could actually have been less than 12 hours! It could have been 20 for less than 12!! And oh yeah, nobody likes her! These people, smdh.
So she didn’t talk to the academics or historians? Pretty sure that’s how most podcasts are run when they’re professionally done.
It is common, but the producer or reporter who did the background interview is often credited so there is no appearance the audience is being mislead. It was a bad editing choice.
Sadly, I have to agree. I am a huge Harry and Meghan supporter, but I have to admit she really should have done this differently. Also, it makes it look like she only speaks directly with celebrities and couldn’t be bothered to talk to academics and experts.
This is not new criticism of Archetypes. Criticism was first raised back when the Archetypes series was new. However, IIRC, producers were always credited with expert interviews so the ‘story’ died. Sounds like typical BRFCo PR tactics, i.e. don’t elevate principals you support, just attack and defile anyone else to distract. All this tells me is Podnews is unreliable, so not to bother with them. The “former chief economist at Spotify Will Page” left Spotify in 2019 and in 2021 began a podcast at a boutique podcast production house in NY. Guaranteed his audience numbers won’t rival Meghan’s regardless of how many hours he puts into it.
It isn’t standard at all actually. Podcasts rarely have big budgets so the margin is thin, and unless you’re a niche show with a niche sponsor or are supporting a product or serve you sell, it takes a LOT of downloads to make much. I’m talking 50K plus.
For network and narrative shows, there may be some parts of interviews that are done by producers, but that’s rare and only on NPR style shows. And hell you should look up “Ira Glass podcast notes”. It’s intense for the editing.
Networks will pay to get interviews recorded by an engineer for bigger shows and on higher profile ones even send a host. It’s called a tape sync.
But few shows even ones on networks have huge budgets
and producers and editors are very skilled and very expensive. so it’s part of training hosts.
and it’s also the draw to have the host interview. It’s a very personal medium. That’s why so many do it. It’s a great personal brand builder because it connects you directly to your audience.
but also the owner of podnews isn’t exactly women friendly sooo.. take that with a grain.
Initially my first question was: Is this standard practice or no? But now I’m rethinking that question, and asking myself: What does it even matter? Who cares either way???
I feel that way about most royal news on either side of the pond
This is shocking to people?! It’s the entire reason the second unit exists in films and television. You can’t have the principal doing everything. It was VERY clear that the academic interviews and some of the shorter celebrity interviews in episodes were done at a different time, and potentially by producers. I’m just so disgusted with the way they put all of these restrictions on this woman that they don’t do with anyone else. No one else would find it odd that the b roll wasn’t literally shot by the principal person in any other production, but if Megan wasn’t doing all of the interviews, editing, research, booking then she wasn’t doing enough.
Someone posted a link to Lainey’s comments about this and one of the things she pointed out was that Meghan didn’t seem to let loose enough, so it’s clear that even if Meghan didn’t do the brief expert interview, she would have reviewed it when the episode was being made.
Even the obamas didn’t get attacked so much over their work. There really is a new level of hate against her and it’s not just in the UK, but many circles in the US.
It’s safer to hate on Meghan because they can fake claim that she’s not really a POC. There are derangers who spread that they think she’s only 1/4 black and Doria is biracial and other nonsense to justify themselves as non-racist.
To what equality is saying, yes, it really seems like they’ve picked a (“safe”) target to unleash their every sexist impulse onto — diminishing the amount, and type, of work she puts in, questioning whether the work she got is ill-gotten, and so on. It’s office sexism, with men whispering that so-and-so “slept her way to the top.” I can’t speak to the misogynoir aspect but of course it is there, conflating race with class. Nasty, ugly ideas they are peddling.
Again another nothing narrative coming from the very desperate UK gutter press. Trying to discredit a very well received podcast from an amazingly authentic woman. Next……
Agreed. Honestly, every time I think the Sussexes are settled, things have calmed down, it can finally be quiet on them until they promote something (as they desire) some dust bunnies are swirled up and SOMEONE is trying to make a tornado of it. They have always wanted to stay out of the limelight/choice in what is shared about them so why does the media drone on about their lack of popularity? They have always wanted to do good and meaningful things and avoided shady dealings so why does the media make a big deal of them not furthering business dealings or slow rolling their involvements? They are two working parents of young children whom they likely value being present for. It seems like perhaps their values and desires are still misunderstood?
Another day ending in -y.
Jealousy, envy — coupled with misogynoir hatred, and the ease with which fakery and lies are published on social media these days.
I choose to believe that Meghan did the majority of (prep) work, even if soundbites and short explanations of women who were not the main interviewees were edited in.
What a non story. Haters gonna hate.
Yes & an old story that’s been circulated again. Meghan interviewed the celeb guests & most of the time when a subject expert/historian explained the history of a stereotype, they did that on the podcast alone like a background briefing so guessing those were done with producers.
I loved the expert input & some I wanted to hear more of
This story was debunked by the producer of Archetype, saying part of the interviews were done by the producers, but Meghan did the main interviews.
Honestly, can you see Meghan giving up control.
It’s interesting how the people who actually worked with her are speaking up now because there really is a segment out there of bitter Betty’s in the media sphere who are simply jealous that Meghan and Harry got a large deal due to their celebrity (as if they were the first ones) and take every chance to try to slag Meghan.
It’s clear that Meghan did the spotlight interviews for each episode and some of the other ones as well.
Also, seeing as how some of these episodes were released after the queens funeral, I suspect her availability was hampered unexpectedly when she was stuck in the UK for several weeks. It’s not like she was travelling with proper mikes to record interviews.
Is that supposed to be some sort of scandal? If so, I missed it. So many useless tabloid nonsense about the Sussexes work. Archetypes was well produced and presented, and very interesting. Kudos to all involved in bringing it to life. The tabloids are scraping the bottom of the barrel for negativity on the Sussexes now and it’s not working IMO. 🤷♀️
They always treat everything she does like some exam she’s taking to pass or fail. A lot of thought and work went into the podcast. Like others have said, to just say it’s 12 hours work with the research and preparation is just wrong.
Yeah, that was a BS comment. Everyone knows it takes many hours to produce an hour of content. What is wrong with people?! This and the phone throwing dude are the worst. It’s really not that difficult to just be kind.
To say just 12 hours work is very ignorant and, honestly, an embarrassing comment for a supposed economist to make. Will Page, left Spotify in 2019 for a Simon & Schuster book deal. More than a year before the Sussexes Spotify deal was announce in December of 2020.
Calling the podcast just 12 hours of work is SO disingenuous. There’s hours and hours of pre-work behind every single episode.
It is insulting to Meghan and her team – and insulting to any podcaster who does informative podcasts (i.e. commenting on more than movies, sports, etc. – don’t get me wrong I love listening to pods commenting on TV and movies but they are less work than more info heavy podcasts).
That’s basically what I just commented below before seeing your comment.
This is why people have employees to help and so one person isn’t doing all the work. It’s keeping others in jobs, so where’s the problem? And the idiot from Spotify should know that there is planning, editing, etc., so the actual run time of a production isn’t the amount of time spent on it. The media always manages to get some liar to make a tool of himself.
Please, this was so much more than 12 hours work for everyone involved. Let’s try and minimise Meghan. Again.
As for the rest of it none of this is the least surprising and nice try to make it sound scandalous.
Exactly. A team of people worked together on Archetypes. The team of people were given credit at the end of each podcast. This involved a lot of people that were acknowledged for their work. Meghan put in a helluva lot more hours than 12 and this MFer (Will Page) knows that. No worries, he’ll be given some kind of OBE next year for his lies.
Apparently, having left Spotify more than a year before the Susexxes Spotify deal was announced, made him knowledgeable about the Sussexes deal?lofl
D@mn, the BM (and their tentacles) want to make this sound as insidious as phone hacking, paying PI’s for info, putting tracking devices on vehicles, blagging and genuinely putting out false stories. I’m sure this new smear campaign has nothing to do with the current trial case going on. /s deflection,deflection,deflection
https://twitter.com/BeccaBarry/status/1671288223526535170?cxt=HHwWhIC-iZryzbEuAAAA
Why so much silence from MGN “journalists”?
Isn’t this done a lot for news programs? The “host” does the main interview and then they slot in extra content to supplement? I think Meghan’s podcast was different because it wasn’t just a celebrity interview show, it was meant to be educational too. So lots of history about where troupes came from. It wasn’t just asking people about how often they bathe, etc. But maybe that’s what Spotify wanted.
A broadcast had some editing. How shocking.
I listened to all of the podcasts, and it was clear that the academics and other experts who provided some background commentary were done by producers and not Meghan. This is pretty standard practice, and I didn’t think anything of it. This is a non-issue as far as I’m concerned.
BM trying to Milli Vanilli Meghan on Archetypes and some US outlets too. Bitter Bettie’s much? Or are they trying to get the People’s Choice rescinded? Pathetic.
All my favorite shows are like this. I’m thinking of the Great British Sewing Bee and how they have fashion historian Amber Butchart do her own separate interviews with no interaction with the hosts or judges at all. Do you know how lucky it would be to have an academic expert and a celebrity podcast host available at the same time week after week? It’s just not going to happen even if you want to.
This is how this stuff works. Producers do this for a lot of podcasts, radio, and tv interviews.
Yes, standard practice. And each podcast had multiple people working on it from pre- to postproduction. Delegate, people! Meghan turned out a terrific series – and as a first time podcaster! Very well researched and honest in trying to learn about why women deal with certain unfair beliefs and how to change this status quo. The fake uproar against this is simply more jealousy, and now additional people are outing themselves.
no uilding gets built with just the Architects name in the forefront of the project. I dont see anything wrong on how this was built. from the sounds of others that have left or are leaving Spotify this isnt the issue.its a numbers game, the podcast listeners didnt turn into paying subcribers. this is Spotify own mistake they didnt understand the landscape before trying to colonise it . Other podcasters have seasons I listened to Trevor noah’s podcast on Luminary 2 seasons of it Malcolm GladWell has 8 seasons so far 10 episodes in each. them expecting the level of work that went into Archtypes to be carried out everyday like Joe rogans is just ludicris .
Joe Rogan is very likely the reason why many people didn’t subscribe. Certainly in my case. If they want to support that creepy wackjob, they’re not getting my money.
If Spotify wanted the Archetypes audience to become paying subscribers, then they should have renewed it for a second season or greenlit some other Meghan production. The only reason why people wouldn’t sign up is that Spotify doesn’t have any other content that interests them.
I get that producers routinely do pre-interviews with guests for TV shows (and I guess, some podcasts), but I think you’re going to do a podcast that revolves around the idea of a conversation, you should do the interview yourself. And not have audio spliced in later. I generally like Harry/Meghan but if she did this, I think that’s wrong. If Terry Gross at Fresh Air and others can conduct their own interviews for their radio shows/podcasts, why can’t Meghan?
But she did the main interviews. Didn’t you get that?
She did do the main interviews herself, what are you talking about? This is referring to the back ground or supplemental pieces. if you listen to these shows you will often hear hosts say “we talked with so and so..” Who is the “we”? Or they will come out and say that “So and so sat down with our producers to talk about…” Its how things work. Next people will criticize Meghan for not running the recording equipment herself. Geez!
This post from Royal Suitor on Twitter breaks it down. Every conversation Meghan had on that podcast was conducted by her. The producers added the expert analysis but they never added her asking questions to people she didn’t speak to directly. From one of the producers “We did occasionally have producers do interviews, though never the main ones, and we never edited her asking questions into interviews that producers conducted.”https://twitter.com/royal_suitor/status/1670908082329882624?s=46&t=vkghcTaTy7LcL1_1HDoPFw
@thaisajs
“…why can’t Meghan?”
The clips of academic or historical information were interspersed or served as introductions to the actual interviews. That is the content the team would go out and tape. Archetypes was highly produced, professional, and probably expensive. There was research involved to give the experience of the guests context and to inform the listener. The podcast was just not a celebrity, a mike, and a guest.
So yet another who claims to like H&M but is eager to jump on any little thing to criticize. If I “generally like someone” I credit their version over lying tabloid versions.
Yeah a lot of ” I like Harry and Meghan but they are totally wrong to do this industry standard thing that everyone else does, and those people aren’t wrong but Harry and Meghan definitely are.” Ridiculous standards just to justify irrational hatred.
@thaisajs — Any comment that features “I generally like Harry/Meghan but if she did this…” is a dead giveaway that you don’t like Meghan at all. It’s general practice in the podcast world to splice in clips from knowledgeable experts that add information and context to the subject matter.
And?
All of the interviews with the principal guests were conducted by Meghan. The background and historical context provided by the academics were put together by the producers. She interviewed all of her celebrity guests directly. The producers who worked in the show said that.
But isn’t this standard practice? I don’t get this are the people complaining waiting to get interviewed by the DM or Page Six?
I worked for a popular live radio talk show back in the day. This sounds very normal and routine to me. It takes a team of writers and producers to make something like this happen. We used to feed the host questions to ask through an earbud.
Jaysus, what do people think producers do all day?
Meghan like any host of a show works with a team. She constantly acknowledges their hard work whenever she wins an award. Her show Archetypes was 12 episodes and was so globally popular and brought in so many subscribers that Spotify stated it boosted their 4th Qt. Spotify wants big names to boost subscribers and that was successful.
Now that Archewell and Spotify are parting ways “sources” and a former Spotify employee seem to be trying to hint that Meghan was wrong to be paid well to produce and host a podcast that was # 1 in 3-4 countries and top 5 in 20 other countries and top 10 in so many others.
Smells like typical UK press nonsense.
I 1000% would have rather interviewed the experts or historians
They wasn’t the focus of the show though. The focus were the women who are unfairly given those labels and their experiences having it put upon them. I love doing the academic deep dive but this was more to give the listener a context. There were some great interviews with many of the women that showed their lives experience. I bet if Meghan had wanted to do a show like that, Spotify would have shot it down, since they seemed to dismiss a lot of their ideas. These people are constantly on her because they want to be able to pick at and attack her in peace. This is why they always want her to shut up and go away.
Lolo, good to know you have that much time. You have to remember that Achewell wasn’t the only one involved here–Spotify was, too. Think about it.
I thought the podcast was boring. If that’s all they produced for that massive paycheck, I would’ve ended the deal too.
Bet you listened to the whole series just to come here and complain about it. Since it was a top podcast on Spotify and won awards, I’m sure your minuscule opinion is super credible.
Well then you’re really not going to like how I felt about Spare! (I found it boring and self-serving)
I don’t care for Marvel or lots of other outlets. Millions of people seem to disagree with me. I found the podcast thought provoking and intellectually stimulating, but not everyone cares to have their thought processes challenged.
Seems like there are some obvious anti-Sussex commenters with new names showing up here today.
Lol you know you can like someone and not like everything they do? I loved their Netflix series, just found the podcast boring. It’s ok everyone, people can criticize Meghan and Harry and not be horrible trolls.
Lol, well people obv like different things. There are people out there who did not find it boring. As the podcast won 2 awards, clearly many didn’t find it boring. But okay, it’s noted that you did.
They really dont now what they’re talking about if this is shocking lol
If it was anyone else, no one would care. Most of the manufactured outrage came from people who didn’t listen to a single episode
Its obvious that this new, made-up “scandal” about M and her RECORD-BREAKING podcast is being driven by the nasty, run amok uk shidtmedia and, like the heritage foundation, they have deliberately sought reinforcement from their white supremacist counterparts in the US.
This latest attack on M’s LEGENDARY WORK ETHIC, which was one of the things about her, very early in her sojourn into the RF CULT that they tried to negativize, is intended to continue their campaign of death-by-a-thousand-cuts on this couple. And, as far as I’m concerned, its also their feeble attempt to further embiggen kkkHATE at M’s expense.
No one can convince me that it doesnt have anything to do with the FREQUENT and heightened disdain by #SSquad and many other unrelated persons both inside and outside the UK, about DUCHESS DOOLITTLE’S LAZINESS, especially visible now that she’s PoW.
In the entirety of the time that kkkHATE has been in the RF………..since 2011……..has she EVAH! had so much make-work????!!! LMAO
The snide comment “not bad for twelve hours work” is laughable. How about the time spent researching your subjects, developing your plan around the episode, selecting your guests, editing, blending in the experts input, I am sure this adds up to more than twelve hours work. I find it interesting that after Meghan had a record breaking series of podcasts that certain people are now trying to tear her down, some things never change.
I listen to a lot of podcasts.
And a lot of podcasts do this.
Jfc these people need to leave this woman alone.
I didnt think she was interviewing all those snippets of experts in between the celebrity interview. it sounded to me like they were asked for quotes. I dont know that this is a big deal to the people that listened to it (not counting hate listening) or who would want to listen to season 2.
Of course, she didn’t interview everyone. You could tell that while listening to the episodes. They had asides where someone would come in and explain the context behind points of the discussion. Sometimes, those interviews done *after* the main interviews are recorded, as you don’t always know what will come up during an interview. (There may even be follow-ups to an interview after the context is researched, and those follow-ups aren’t always done by the initial interviewer. This happens in all mediums.)
This is what is known as “production.” There are staffers who do this. Long, long ago–in the Before Times–newspapers and media organizations had full-time researchers on staff just. to. do. this.
They will try to make anything a story when it comes to the Sussexes.
This is a non-issue.
“ “Not bad for 12 hours work,” said former chief economist at Spotify Will Page (at the 27-minute mark in the Podnews podcast),”
So another Spotify employee is bad mouthing Meghan and feeding the British media. What kind of a joke organization is Spotify? Obviously this wasn’t an “amicable” breakup cause Spotify is doing its best to sully Meghan’s reputation. Seems Spotify is pissed H&M told them to kick rocks. Spotify is garbage. They allow racist Joe Rogan to spout disinformation and shit talks former podcasters all while not paying fair 💵💵 to music artists. I hope folks steer clear of working with Spotify.
I think Spotify is on its last legs and clinging to trash like Rogan as a last ditch effort to remain relevant. Meghan got out in the nick of time.
@Jaded:
Exactly! “Meghan got out in the nick of time.”
Its fascinating to see how, time and time again, since and including how, H&M met each other, that things and places and people are met at exactly the right time!
Makes me, once again, want to contemplate this saying:
” For everything there is a season, and a time for every purpose under heaven” (Ecclesiastes 3:1).
ALSO, as an old mentor of mine once told me:
“Everyone you meet, enters your life for a time: some come for a season; some for a reason. The onus is on you to recognize the role that people are meant to play in your life. And vice-versa.”
personally, i think joe rogan has something to do with the sudden sussex smearing by spotify executives (i feel like im on bojack horseman lol) i think he has been super butt hurt over Archetypes booting him from the #1 spot, but wasnt allowed to shit talk them publicly while the sussexes were still with spotify. now that theyre not, he has his mouth pieces maligning them. he knows he would look a sore loser if it came from him. although ftr i do think the spotify exec who called them grifters genuinely doesnt like the sussexes but its because hes up rogan’s ass
It’s annoying when you have people deliberately sending out disinformation. It’s annoying when you have people who know nothing about the podcast process speak about it. Then you have this guy who doesn’t work there anymore and sign a book deal with a competitor of the publishing house that published Harry’s book. My guess is he’s hoping to sell more books.
These people are deliberately talking to the derangers in order to give them more fodder. My suggestion? Ignore them all. Let them just talk to the derangers and be done with it. Don’t give them oxygen.
This is dumb, this is exactly why there are researchers. The host isn’t running around doing the grunt work. Only idiots would clutch their pearls about this.
This is standard practice. And hours of research happen even before an interview is scheduled with an interview subject.
These critics don’t seem to know how content is produced. Sheesh.
…and Meghan cried, all the way to the bank.