Don’t get me wrong, I think Joe Jonas is a creep, a jerk and probably quite sexist too. He clearly wanted Sophie Turner to be his tradwife, and he backtracked in a hurry when his week-long smear campaign against Sophie backfired. All that being said, as Sophie and Joe’s dueling legal filings have shown, Joe is a lot more prepared than Sophie. He’s been preparing for this divorce for months, he’s listening to his lawyers and, by filing for divorce first in Florida, he’s done a lot to control how the divorce and custody battles will proceed. All Sophie has is… a letter. A letter Joe wrote when they were shopping for real estate in the UK.
Sophie Turner has filed legal documents that include a heartfelt letter written by Joe Jonas to the seller of the U.K. home the former couple intended to purchase together before their split. The exes have been involved in a contentious ongoing custody dispute about where their children — Willa, 3, and Delphine, 14 months — should live in the wake of their divorce. The Game of Thrones actress, 27, claimed in an earlier filing that the family’s home base was in the U.K. and revealed she and the Jonas Brothers singer, 34, had entered into a contract to buy a home in her native country.
According to Page Six, Jonas reportedly wrote in part, “When my wife and I decided we were going to spend more time in the UK and search for a permanent home, our daughter expressed three unwavering requirements: having chickens, a pony and a Wendy house … While many of the houses we viewed met this criteria, the moment we turned the corner and caught sight of the charming blue shutters adorning [redacted], we experienced a sense of magic unlike anything we had felt before.”
He also reportedly wrote to the owner: “We can envision our children growing up here and making this our forever home,” and, “I really think Sophie and I will be able to look after [redacted names] and for many years pay homage to the magic you have created here.”
However, a source close to the situation tells PEOPLE of the house in England, “They did not buy the house. The house is in escrow, the sale never closed.” According to an earlier filing from Turner, they began looking for a house in the U.K. in Dec. 2022. The search continued through July 2023, when they entered into a contract to purchase a property, but the deal would not be completed until December 2023.
“They have never been residents of the U.K.,” the source adds. “Residency is a legal term and that is how the courts will define it. Residency includes things like where you have your driver’s license, where you vote, where your kids go to school, where you last lived as a family for a significant period of time (specifically 6 months).”
In 2021, Turner and Jonas had purchased and completely redecorated a family residence in Miami. They listed it for sale in April 2023 and sold the property for $15 million in August. Referencing this property, the source continued, “There is no place the family lived for 6 months or longer other than Florida. Intention, expressed in a letter or otherwise, does not equal residency. Actions do. And so while the letter was inserted in the motion in order to pique the attention of reporters, it won’t actually be material to determine legal residency.”
Yeah… Joe’s side is correct. While the letter shows that Joe, at one time, intended to buy a home in the UK, it’s not some smoking gun which proves that Joe and Sophie lived in the UK, had established residency in the UK or that this is a British family court issue. Like, it sort of feels like Sophie’s biggest issue with Joe is that he changed his mind about moving to the UK, or that he was never even sold completely on the move in the first place. This letter would be a smoking gun in a civil case if Sophie was suing him over a failed real estate deal, but in a divorce case, the letter isn’t that important?
Photos courtesy of Backgrid.
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- New York City, NY – Sophie Turner was seen wearing her wedding ring as she left the residence of pop superstar Taylor Swift. The “Game of Thrones” actress is currently in the midst of a public divorce and custody battle with musician Joe Jonas. Despite the difficult circumstances, Turner appeared to find some solace and support in her friendship with Swift. The ring’s presence has sparked conversations about the complexities of her ongoing legal battle. Pictured: Sophie Turner BACKGRID USA 28 SEPTEMBER 2023 BYLINE MUST READ: Diamond / BACKGRID USA: +1 310 798 9111 / usasales@backgrid.com UK: +44 208 344 2007 / uksales@backgrid.com *UK Clients – Pictures Containing Children Please Pixelate Face Prior To Publication*
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- New York City, NY – Sophie Turner was seen wearing her wedding ring as she left the residence of pop superstar Taylor Swift. The “Game of Thrones” actress is currently in the midst of a public divorce and custody battle with musician Joe Jonas. Despite the difficult circumstances, Turner appeared to find some solace and support in her friendship with Swift. The ring’s presence has sparked conversations about the complexities of her ongoing legal battle. Pictured: Sophie Turner BACKGRID USA 28 SEPTEMBER 2023 BYLINE MUST READ: Diamond / BACKGRID USA: +1 310 798 9111 / usasales@backgrid.com UK: +44 208 344 2007 / uksales@backgrid.com *UK Clients – Pictures Containing Children Please Pixelate Face Prior To Publication*
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- New York, NY – Singer Joe Jonas was spotted stepping out of his apartment after a few stressful days amid his divorce from his wife Sophie Turner. He was surrounded by his two bodyguards until he got into his car. Pictured: Joe Jonas BACKGRID USA 28 SEPTEMBER 2023 BYLINE MUST READ: Diamond / BACKGRID USA: +1 310 798 9111 / usasales@backgrid.com UK: +44 208 344 2007 / uksales@backgrid.com *UK Clients – Pictures Containing Children Please Pixelate Face Prior To Publication*
But helps her in the PR war.
What PR war? What she wants she is not going to get irrespective of the PR war. Florida has passed a law. Dad’s are as important as mothers in custody cases. And since the kids have lived mainly in Florida she might not be able to take them to England. So PR war at this time is meaningless.
They haven’t though? It’s quite clear from the documents she submitted. They never had a stable home in Florida.
Don’t fall for Joe’s PR. They have not lived mainly in Florida. They don’t even have a house there. They are enrolled in school in the UK right now. They only reason they were in the US is because Joe decided he wanted them with him for a month while he was on tour and Sophie agreed.
It would be like you letting your husband take the kids to visit his family in the UK for a month after you’ve moved to the US for nearly a year to be near your family, have a house, enrolled the kids in school, getting a job here. Then he files for divorce and tells you that they’re living in the UK now and never moving back.
That’s basically what Joe did, except flip the UK with the US.
I’m just curious, but where have the girls been living? Is there a timeline?
So much of this sounds like Joe has been lying to Sophie and stringing her along, all the while getting his ducks in a row so that legally he could get custody.
@Lauren I don’t remember the specifics but one of Sophie’s initial legal filings included a timeline (week by week, and even day by day) that laid out exactly where the daughters/family stayed. I don’t remember how far it went back, but I’m sure you could Google it.
It certainly does. And that’s totally necessary. I know full well that divorce battles aren’t legally won in the court of public opinion, but in terms of Sophie’s future work, she needs to be shown as the character with integrity. She’s demonstrating that she was totally blindsided – you don’t get married and then plan out your divorce for months if you have the merest shred of decency, and you don’t force someone to marry you in the first place, push out two babies in short succession and have her career obliterated – all in the name of making her look like a ‘good Christian woman’. Ugh, Christianism (not Christianity, although I hate the patriarchal hierarchy) is so foul.
The thing is, it’s 2023. If Joe and Sophie had been together in the 90s, Sophie would’ve been destroyed by the press and generations of women who’d internalised misogyny. Women have had enough. Enough of people – men, actually: sorry – telling us what to do with our uteruses, and blaming us for losing our tempers with them due to mansplanation on PMT; making us out to be like empty-headed Barbie dolls, all looks and fluffy frocks and lipstick, too unintelligent and uninteresting to be worthy of equal opportunities, rights, treatment and pay. Jonas has managed to shoot himself dead-centre in his Hobbit-feet. Today’s women don’t want to be treated as breeders, by and large. They don’t want to be housewives and waste their minds and their talents on endless vacuuming and laundry. Women, especially left-leaning ones (like me!) want to be able to have both a job and partner/spouse, with domestic labour shared. And we’ve become very attuned to coercive control, domestic violence, misogyny and inequality. Sophie’s playing this right. She WAS blindsided. She WAS preparing for divorce. This was no Ioan Gruffudd/Alice Evans divorce when he’d expressed his unhappiness for years, to which Evans turned a blind eye, or him telling her that he wanted them to separated. Sophie had no time to get anything together because Jonas went to the media first. So playing the emotional angle is, I think, a very good one, and one which I am sure her lawyers are strategising. Against the emotional approach, Jonas’s lambasting of Sophie looks positively sociopathic.
The Queen of the North is not going down without a fight.
What a mess this has become and will probably get even messier.
. A deteriorating relationship is a good reason NOT to move to a new country…. what was a good idea one day – might be thought through more thoroughly the next day.
These hand written letters to sway buyers are common practice now.
not a good reason for him now maybe…but no one is asking him to move to the UK. Sophie wants to be able to go back to the UK with her kids. which Joe has now decided bc he doesn’t want to means they can’t…
Joe is on tour most of the time. Sophie is the hands on parent. Of course she wants to move where she has family support system and now a job. That’s why they moved in the first place.
They already moved to the UK. The girls are enrolled in school there. Joe is trying to re-write history and block them from leaving the US.
This is what i dont get it either. People are not allowed to change their mind? JJ is creepy and moron but im on his side not moving to UK. Who wants to live in england where it rains all the time plus he doesnt have any friends or family. Atleast in states sophie has friends. California is way better than england.
Joe shouldn’t have to move to the UK because he doesn’t have friends there and Sophie should stay in the US because she has made friends there?! That is your argument?! Then he flipping needs to make friends, just like she did.
You keep saying in your comments that you aren’t a Joe Jonas fan, but then you continually support him and attack her. He’s the father of two daughters and he’s come up with rather female-unfriendly, misogynistic arguments against his wife. What kind of father do you think he is?
Depends on the person. The UK is not my favorite country, but if I had to choose between the US and the UK, I would choose the latter, no question.
Yeah its according to person, but in us we can move into different states and have total privacy and good weather. With brexit mess, us looks very good.
The discussion seems to be centered on establishing residency between Florida, the UK, and NY. Considering all angles including socioeconomic and political angles, I’d choose the UK over Florida probably but not over New York.
In what world is California better than UK
Well, a British Prince decided it was, which seems like a ringing endorsement to me, lol.
I lived in the UK and loved it when I did but wouldn’t go back now.
Are you kidding? In this & every other world!
I say this as an American, very little can keep children completely safe from random gun violence here. There was a fancy private school in Nashville that some lunatic shot up recently. I’d rather live in the US personally, but if I were sending children to school? UK. Every day.
California is not part of the discussion. Florida, New York, and the UK are the places involved
At least in the UK their daughters would have basic human rights, unlike the US.
Exactly @ Pippa!
Irrespective of w/e arguments are going on in this particular comment thread, the facts seem to be that the girls never had an established residence in the UK, thus it will be very difficult for Sophie to argue for essentially full custody of them in the UK while Joe gets visitation, either by traveling to the UK or having the children sent to the US. I do wonder how these types of situations pan out for the kids.
It’s not a great situation, but this is what the reality of divorce is, especially for international couples.
Yes, @Lemon.
JJ was smart to file in Florida, a place with lots of judges who are conservative. It’s like when Johnny Depp filed against Amber Heard. Also, if you have a conservative judge, you get outcomes like Kevin Costner’s divorce.
Just because JJ filed in a conservative state doesn’t make him correct. The kids should live with her part time and with him part time. It would be very hard on them, but one of the parents should make a choice to live close to the other parent. That parent is generally the woman. If a Sophie is the primary parent, which rings true because the kids are babies/toddlers, she will likely be the one to relocate until the kids are old enough to choose where they want to live. He should move near her because they are babies, and meeting the daily needs of two small children is hard work if you are hands on and don’t rely on nannies exclusively. The hands on parents in Hollywood, Like Jolie, are clear if the kids are out with them. The faces on kids don’t lie, generally speaking.
Her letter would not establish residency, but it is part of their story. In my custody situation in California, the facts were frequently reiterated in court, but almost all of the decisions went in my favor because the whole picture was a story of domestic violence and control. In some courts, cruelty and using the legal system to punish a former partner is recognized by some judges, generally women.
In Texas right now, no fault divorce is likely to vanish in a few months, thus locking women into legal partnerships with men who abuse them. Joe could have waited and filed in Texas if he’d of known.
We are all screwed by the paternalism in this country. Royally fucked.
Except they did. Per the documents she actually submitted, they sold the house in Miami, moved the girls to the UK, rented a place, and set to buy one. They enrolled the older one in nursery and had doctors set up. They kids were established there for months before returning to the US with him while she worked on a show. They established residency.
Why do people keep saying they never lived in the UK or that it was just a plan to move there? THEY MOVED! Already! They lived in the UK.
They were only in the US this summer because she was filming and he’d have more time during his tour to see them. Quite frankly, I think the bushy eyebrowed snake planned it that way.
People need to stop pitting entire countries against each other. What are we trying to start, a war? There are pros and cons to every country and guess what? More exposure to different countries/cultures = more enrichment/experience. Everyone can strive to be a bit more global and international with their mindset.
Honestly? I blame Canada.
@kebbie, we Canadians are so sorry for the mess we have caused! 😂😂😂
Come live in Canada, Sophie.
@Lux Thank you for this. I get a little tired of seeing my country which, (although it is currently limping under despotic Tory rule – General Election next year!),is a beautiful place, being slammed left, right and centre. We’re not the worst nation in the world. We have an amazing history and a rich blend of cultures, be they the descendants of the early Celts, Picts and Norse, or recent arrivals from the African continent. Sure, it could be better. If we could break down the class system, things would be a LOT better (Charles should be the last king, the House of Lords should be disbanded and the Chomondleys and Featherstonehaughs sink into obscurity), life would be infinitely better. (It’s almost amusing that on the one hand we’re the country most tolerant of ethnic and cultural diversity in Europe, but on the other we judge them for being too ‘posh’/too much of an ‘oik’.
I’m not going to denigrate America, not even for Trump – he was the symptom of the decline of the working classes under neoliberal economics, not the cause (repealing antitrust laws did a helluva lot of damage), and generational inequality and despair became entrenched. Anyway. Let’s all appreciate where others come from: I know that through the years, I have learnt a lot from you, and I hope I’ve been able to impart some wisdom re: UK and NI culture of my own.
This will get messier as I think she really wants to raise the kids in the UK but that isn’t going to happen. Best she can hope for is some sort or arrangement where they can spend a lot of time in the UK – he’s not going to let them live in the UK part time.
Its clear she did not see this coming and yeah he’s def been planning this for a while – for him its now about getting custody of the kids to raise the same way he was. For these conservative religious types children are seen as a commodity.
I hope Priyanka is taking notes.
Yes, if I were Priyanka, I would also study this situation and my husband’s behavior very, very carefully. Even if my relationship were solid, I would seek out an attorney for advice just in case.
I dont think Priyanka situation will be similar. I don’t think she wants to live in India and rise her kid there. I also highly doubt Priyanka has Indian passport, she might got her us citizenship . If she is us citizen, she have to give up her Indian citizenship because Indian doesn’t allow dual citizenship. Plus Priyanka mother lives with her or near her.
Joe did the following: He trashed Sophie’s reputation and inferred she’s a terrible mother. He filed for divorce and let her know via the tabloids while she was working in another country and he had custody of the children. He withheld the children’s passports from Sophie. He’s tried to cement a reputation as a wonderful father to contrast with ST supposedly being a poor mother. And he’s got his Jonas family closing ranks and supporting him. In essence, he’s trying to separate the kids from their mother.
If Priyanka ever winds up in the same situation, she can expect to similarly have the Jonas clan try to get custody of her child. Be trashed as a mother. Have her daughter’s passport for international travel kept from her. Priyanka needs to watch out, because the Jonases have shown that they are team Jonas. The international part is only part of the issue.
Apparently Priyanka has Lou Taylor (Britney’s abuser and religious grifter) as a manager so I think she is just fine with whatever is going on. I have wondered if Lou has been helping with Joe’s contacts with TMZ.
I disagree with “seeing his kids as a commodity”. He is a father. He could be a conservative religious type” but that does not negate the love he has for his kids. As a parent, and in the same position, I will fight tooth and nail to keep my children in the country where I grew up. And with the new Florida law, that is exactly what’s going to happen.
And that letter means zippo. They are no longer together so he has a right to change his mind. Sophie was sleeping at the wheel while Monsieur was making money moves.
This letter is helpful in the PR war, because part of Joe’s initial attack was that Sophie was partying up a storm since the Spring (when he neglected to mention that she was working or that he had also spent time in the UK) while he was this amazing father. That’s probably why she included this. Legally, no it’s not entirely helpful.
However, their eldest daughter attended nursery school (I believe) in England. Plus, (I do not know if this pertains to the UK) they have a doctor and dentist there—in the NLs you need Dutch health insurance for that. In addition, Joe refused to turn over the kids’ passports. These are the things that do help her out.
Lil Joffrey withholding the passports is designed to control both Sophie and the kids but its not entirely legal – from my limited knowledge passports are actually owned by the gov that issued them, not the person they are for, so he’s basically illegally withholding gov documents. If needed she could go down to the UK embassy and get new travel doc’s issued for the kids, citing the theft of their passports by their father.
I keep thinking that the other shoe in this saga will eventually drop – Joffrey was clearly planning this for a while and made sure the kids were with him when he made his move. I think Joffrey has been a bad boy and filled to get ahead of something.
Digital Unicorn, Thanks for clarifying what I meant with the passports: it’s not legal for a parent to withhold a child’s passport from the other parent. The fact that he did that helps her legally. If the UK is willing to quickly issue a second passport for the kids in this instance (Joe blocking Sophie), that is amazingly helpful! Most parents I know who were in that situation need a lot more time to convince their government to issue a second passport without the permission of the other parent.
I’m not sure exactly sure when JJ decided to act, but I get the feeling he could have been more strategic. So after that letter for purchasing the forever home, but before they legally lived in the UK for 6 months (and while he had custody).
I’m worried for her. She needs a first-rate advisor. She’s quite young, right? And does she have a family by her side? I hope she hired some excellent counsel but the reality is that both of them are going to need homes in both countries and they’ll need to make that adjustment quickly. The parent willing to compromise is the parent who actually cares about the kids.
It’s starting to feel like the case of Christine Baumgartner, who got screwed by a bad lawyer.
I disagree that it’s nothing and I think the commentary from People saying as much is PR from Joe’s camp.
Good for her releasing the letter. I can only imagine the gaslighting she’s enduring about their clearly concrete plans she understood they held together. The horror of this man promising his daughter the house with chickens and a pony and then pulling the rug out from underneath them.
I agree with all of this. They’ve taken measurable steps to establish a long-term residence in the UK, the children have been there with Turner, and they no longer have a permanent residence in any other country/state.
I actually think it’s Joe’s camp that is less legally organized, which is why they’re trying to do so much in the press.
@sas, yes to everything you said
Yep. Very clearly his PR & makes me I’ll People ran w that unquestioned
“All Sophie has is… a letter. ”
Is this correct? Didn’t previous reports from court say that children have their doctors, schools arranged in UK as well? Sophie has been the primary parent since they were born while Joe was mostly on tour. It is very clear that she wants her family’s support while raising her kids. It doesn’t matter she has friends in USA. Any mother would like to live near her parents if she can’t get enough support from other parent due to work schedule or traditional roles. Joe can fight this through tabloids as much as he wants, Sophie has been fighting in court and I hope she wins.
They moved as a family to England in April. They rented a house, made an offer to purchase a home near Sophie’s family and had a preschool picked out for the oldest child.
Yea, I get the sense Sophie is going the Ioan Gruffud route, very by the book, through lawyers only, while the psycho ex is going nuclear to the press to maintain whatever control they’ve lost after the separation.
Sophie and Joe have spoken about wanting their kids to attend school in the UK, for obvious reasons. I’m heavily suspicious of the newly emerging “pro Joe” army- at least one in this thread has repeated a fiction totally unsupported by court documents (that the family has primarily lived in Florida).
They seem to have been too nomadic that have had any kind of established residency in any one place. That lifestyle must have been exhausting for Sophie with two toddlers, especially if your mental health is vulnerable.
Yeah, weird take and line tbh.
A) she doesn’t just have a letter, she already came with the receipts.
B) he filed for divorce, not her, and if the press is to be believed, she was blindsided, so of course it takes time to collate the details.
Um … a divorce *is* a civil case. LOL it’s not supposed to be a “smoking gun.” It’s evidence that quite recently, he was on board with the kids going to the UK, even possibly being raised there.
And ALL she has is a letter? The letter clearly indicates that recently, Joe was just fine with the kids being in the UK, so his refusal to surrender their passports now comes off, rightfully, as an unnecessary power play.
Joe handled this poorly from the start – not sure where the thinking is coming from that he’s some kind of legal genius or that his attorneys are. They bungled it right from the beginning with the trash talk, and Sophie’s hitting right back witth receipts.
Good for her. Her lawyers > his lawyers
Yeah, I don’t get this take, either. She’s showing intent. Intent for the family to move to England, which she relied upon in making plans for their life. He reneged on that (for whatever reason), but he had agreed. Therefore, the court can take that into account when determining physical custody of the kids (ie the court can say that the girls can spend up to 6 months with her in England each year, or the school year, or the summer, etc.)
the court will absolutely take that into account; this isnt about Sophie trying to sneak the kids away to the UK, its about a life that they were in the process of setting up.
That said – my issue with a lot of these comments here in general (not necessarily yours @Mimi) is the implication that because they WERE in the process of setting up that life, that process must continue. They were a married couple making plans for raising their family and now they are in the process of not becoming a married couple anymore. That’s a REALLY big change in circumstances obviously that will be taken into account.
I do think she is going to get primary physical custody but I also think they will spend significant periods with Joe in the US.
This is just getting messy and I kind of wonder if at some point we’ll see a Costner-esque move, where the messiness seems to be getting worse and then BAM! settled – to save attorneys’ fees, protect reputations, whatever.
I also really really think Joe Jonas overestimated his fan base and their support here.
@becks1 – I agree Joffrey vastly over estimated his public ‘support’ and fanbase. A lot of his fans are siding with her as they see his PR for what it is – nasty misogyny. This is not a good look for him and his brothers images.
I agree that he has every right to change his mind at any time in the process but that also begs the question of whether it was something he really wanted to do – given that he was clearly planning this for some time its obvs that moving to live in the UK was not what he (or his family) wanted.
Children need a stable base – so far thats not something that they have had and the driving force for that nomadic lifestyle is Joffrey. The guy doesn’t seem to want to settle or put roots down in one place.
Basically he wants the kids to stay in the US so he can tour AND see the kids whenever he wants. He and his brothers are not really known outside the US so there is no real career reason why he’d move here. She’s the international star, not him.
I’m not a lawyer but had a few situations where I needed a consultation and what I heard every time was: the judge will be also interested in parties’ intent, and general “fair” behavior- so Sophie does have a case here in my opinion. I was advised to always do the “correct” thing, show my best intentions to find a solution etc. And Joe’s moves were clearly with bad intentions, by planning all behind her back, PR smear campaign etc. and overall trying to paint her as an unfit mother.
@Becks, while you’re correct that just because they were in the process of setting up their family home in the UK together, it doesn’t automatically continue in that same way if Joe decides he no longer wants to be married and share a life with Sophie. But Joe doesn’t get to dictate that the kids permanent residence must be the Jonas family compound in Florida (literally or figuratively) and he doesn’t get to unilaterally decide nix the kids living in the UK at all, traveling to the UK at all, he doesn’t get to hold their passports (and therefore the kids) hostage.
As @Anna described, he made a bunch of moves with apparent bad intentions. And much of it was done publicly and using misrepresentations and falsehoods to trash Sophie’s reputation, frame her as an irresponsible bad mother and manipulate the press to influence not just public opinion, but also the legal issues that would be coming up as their separation, divorce, custody arrangements move forward.
It’s not like he decided he wanted out of the marriage and simply took good faith legal efforts to make that happen – working with a lawyer to get the process going, outlining with his legal team what his preferred arrangement was for sharing custody with Sophie, thinking through what might be the best for his kids so that he had that information ready for the court as the divorce process proceeded, notifying Sophie of his intent in a timely manner (ie before he / his team leaked to TMZ) If he had simply done that, he wouldn’t be getting dragged in the media, on social media, here and even by his own fans. He was setting things up so that Sophie’s rights, involvement with her children would be disregarded, cast aside in favor of HIS and pre-emptively trying to asset control of THEIR children. Which wasn’t only not “fair”, it was slimy.
And obviously not putting the best interest of to children first.
@Becks1 – A possibility you’re not considering is that Jonas decided he didn’t want to put their relocation plans into action, so therefore he decided to divorce her. It’s the question of which came first. Based on the passport and real estate details, it seems to me that he’s weaponizing the divorce in order to make a judge force Sophie not to go back home.
@Anna, well I am a lawyer 🤷♀️🤷♀️
@NorthofBoston I literally said: “I do think she is going to get primary physical custody but I also think they will spend significant periods with Joe in the US.” The passport hostage-taking is bad and problematic to say the least and I completely get why people are seeing that and thinking “holy eff this guy is out of line here,” because he is. But I just really doubt that’s going to be the long term strategy here. if I’m wrong in 2 years, I’ll apologize lol.
@Shawna – I’m not sure what kind of point you’re making there. If he didnt want to put the relocation plans into action for whatever reason, and that’s the reason for the divorce, that’s a valid reason for divorce. That’s something hard to work around – one partner wants to live in X country, the other wants to live in Y country, and both want it to be full time. There’s not really compromise unless they’re willing to split their time.
For the record, I don’t think that’s what happened here, but if it is, I don’t think its a winning argument for Sophie. BUT in general, I think she has a pretty good argument. I just don’t think her “winning” is going to mean that JJ never sees the kids or has to buy a house in the UK, which is what I think people on here seem to think is going to happen. I also don’t think his winning means the kids never go to the UK again, which also seems to be what people think will happen.
Custody issues are messy ANYWAY in far more normal circumstances, and here they are really messy
Becks1, You surprised me by writing this, “I just don’t think her “winning” is going to mean that JJ never sees the kids or has to buy a house in the UK, which is what I think people on here seem to think is going to happen. I also don’t think his winning means the kids never go to the UK again, which also seems to be what people think will happen.”
International divorces where the parents fight get really messy and bitter and nasty, but both parents usually do get to have the kids in their own countries in the end and aren’t kept from seeing their children, unless there’s abuse or abduction or something truly egregious. I think most of us expect one parent to have main custody and the other to see the girls during vacations down the line? The question for me is if Sophie can make an argument that she deserves primary custody in England or not. Joe doesn’t appear to be a child abuser—no court is going to deny him custody, it’s more of a question which parent will be with the kids more.
Becks1, according to what I read in Sophie’s pleading filed in federal court in NY, they moved most of their belongings to the UK by July. They were in the UK in April and moved most of the children’s belongings then. It seems whatever happened on August 12th–a phone conversation — must have been when divorce talks between the two of them happened. As far as I can tell, he then started running around like a chicken with its head cut off looking for an attorney. He’s been incredibly messy and it seems he keeps making mistakes.
I can’t imagine how incredibly stressful it was to go on tour with Joe with two little ones. Sophie clearly has been the most involved parent. It seems that in the past year, their children’s stay in the UK was the longest place they’ve lived. There is a hearing this week that I think will determine residency, which has to be determined first before a Jurisdiction becomes known.
I, personally, hope that Sophie gets primary custody and that Joe will get them during the summer and arranged holidays. I’m sure he’ll be able to see them in between because Sophie will work with him. That’s my hope.
I also saw something somewhere that the picture of Joe with the two girls and nanny was called out because they had been keeping the children’s photos out of the media. Is this true?
This is just so awful for their kids. Like, the two of them need to step back and get a grip on the situation. It’s embarrassing and SO HARMFUL to their children. I love how she’s living life and moving on but I’m not even sure how the optics are of her out every night in the tabloids. I’m not saying don’t go out. I’m a mom I go out sometimes but just the publicness of it all doesn’t seem great.
She is trying to do what’s best for her children by making sure they have a stable home in a place where there’s good schooling, plenty of community resources, separation from the paparazzi, and much support from family and friends. So far he wants the children to…? Live on the road? Have a home base with all of those things where?
Also we have to stop with the optics comments. That is what’s harmful. It’s okay for women to have lives so long as they’re a secret? No.
He wants kids raised by his mother while he tours all the time. As most of those religious ducks he glorifies his mother at the one and only role model for women and mothers. He wanted to choose successful, model-like wife and then turn her into his mother while he does what he wants. Oh how many of those I have seen, they are so attracted to successful, confident women but at home they want a tradwife. I feel for Sophie, however this turns out she will never be able to live her life 100% on her terms.
Chrissy, how is she ‘out every night’? We’ve seen her out 3x with Taylor in 3 weeks? Maybe 4? At 2am I’m not researching this. You’re spouting Jo bro talking points. He’s touring, so he really is ‘out every night’. She’s gone out with her friends at night when the kids are asleep and nanny’s are home – less than he’s done.. And someone said earlier the kids are with Jo bros this week anyway. Cut the mysoginy
i think the letter has impact. it backs up sophie’s timeline of events. it tells us the joe is a conniving POS who purposely filed in Florida to keep his kids here in the US without letting them go back to the UK with Sophie. you can at me about playing the PR game, and being smart in custody battles, but i think the impact of the letter is clear…Joe planned this, smeared her, and will weaponize their kids in this divorce.
This is a terrible mess. I feel awful for Sophie – no doubt she wants to go home. I would think she has a better chance painting herself as the stable parent who isn’t touring and taking her kids on the road, but what do I know.
I feel for her. JJ reminds me so much of one of those narcissistic “nice guys” who who thinks they could never do anything wrong, while they’re actually a patronizing ass to everyone around them. I’d bet money Sophie is infantilized and sick to death of it.
Saying he is more prepped for her for divorce just means that he made up his mind before hand. He probably never wanted to move to England and the more it became real, the more he realised he was losing control and had to decide when to pull the trigger. He is going to spend the next 18 years pulling a Brad Pitt and trying to control her through courts and PR and that is not okay. If he agreed to move to the UK, EVEN IF they are divorced, a caring and loving father would try to figure out what best works for the kids – even it means being primarily resident in UK. My question really is – why does she have to accede?
All of it seems more like Sophie v the Jonas bros. His family would not have made the money they are making now if he moved to the U.K. He needed to be prepared because he is on tour all the time. Hence the original statement of taking care of the kids while on tour.
Her best argument for the U.K. is his schedule, especially since she has only worked for a few months of the kiddos lives and he used that as an opportunity to screw her.
My question is, who are the people going to see the Jonas brothers?!?! Demographic has to be 100% women. But what kind of fan base do they have? Where are they performing? I wouldn’t think they could fill up a Starbucks.
She has submitted more documentation than just this letter. If her initially filing is accurate the children had medical providers in the UK and the oldest attended nursery school. People simply vacationing in another country do not typically seek medical care or enroll their children in school. Didn’t they also lease a home? I am not a legal scholar by any means, but I think Sophie has some decent attorneys advising her. To me releasing this letter is more about the PR game and I honestly do not blame her. His team has dragged her through the mud from the beginning. At least in this case she is using facts and his own words against him.
I wish he would just let the children live in the UK. She is from a small town. They have better privacy laws regarding publishing children’s photos in the UK. He spends the majority of the year on tour anyway and that is no life for a child. This whole situation seems like an overgrown man child who is hurt his wife exhibited some independence so he is trying to hurt her as much as possible through the children.
Yeah. If he got primary custody what would he then do when the children reach school age? Dragging them on tour where they move from week to week can’t give them much stability, never mind the opportunity to establish friendships with other children. Or is he just going to dump the children with another full-time caregiver. The whole thing seems like a power play on his part where he really hasn’t thought things through. He seems like a guy who is used to getting his way in everything.
I suspect he’d leave them with his family – read mother. His mother was there supporting him with the kids when he was touring.
From what I’ve the Jonas mother is ‘intense’ and very involved in her sons lives.
“From what I’ve the Jonas mother is ‘intense’ and very involved in her sons lives.” Yikes! Sounds like a not-so-fun MiL. It makes me wonder how much his parents are involved in this divorce because the whole thing is just so coordinated and underhanded, and it reeks of the kind of misogyny that is found in certain religious communities.
I would bet good money Mom Jonas is one of the driving forces here.
Not only did they lease a home, they purchased it. It hasn’t closed yet but they have a legally binding obligation to finalize the purchase in December.
She already enrolled her daughter in preschool too.
The take that she only has a letter is blatantly false. I absolutely think she has the best legal leg to stand on.
This letter is considerable evidence of intention to make the UK their residence. I have not practiced international custody law, but as a civil trial lawyer who deals with residency issues (including previously in family court), I would back away from the assumption that “just a letter” isn’t substantial evidence of intent. As it is a statement by a party, it is admissible for any purpose, including impeachment. I will await substantial evidence of Joe revoking this intention. In the absence of any such evidence, her case is legitimate and strong.
She wasn’t as prepared because she wasn’t preparing for a divorce. Now we’re applauding him for being Machiavellian and cruel? The letter is something. It still shows he was at one point down with raising his kids in the UK and there was a plan for it to be there permanent home.
This
I am going to explain a critical point — yes, INTENT is absolutely 10000000 percent a critical component for a court to establish residency for the purposes of litigation.
Listen, people establish residency when they lease or rent all.the.time. Otherwise, there would be millions of people with questionable residency in the U.S. Truthfully, the most dispositive thing would be something like the lease. If they leased a home for a full year, then that’s their de facto residence absent compelling evidence otherwise. What’s wild is the compelling evidence is in the opposite direction. The kids were in school in the UK, the kids healthcare providers were in the U.K.
My bona fides to explain I know what I am talking about: I am a former federal law clerk who actually worked on cases on like this, particularly where, as here, international treaties can govern how a situation like this will be resolved.
The forum shopping in Florida is incredibly interesting because those state courts….do whatever the heck they want! Law be damned! And the appellate courts have limited jurisdiction, so it’s sort of crazy that she would concede from a strategic standpoint to ever, ever consider litigating in Florida. NOTE: I recommend all CBs avoid Florida courts. It’s a mess down there.
It’s an awful situation, particularly since there seems to more of an effort to get tactical legal advantages. He definitely set up a situation where this will inevitably be an awful, expensive legal slog.
Can he just choose any state he wants or do they need to be residents of Florida in order to use the courts there? Because if residency is the key, he may be on shaky ground. She is also using the Hague court, charging that he has essentially kidnapped the children by refusing to turn over their passports to her. Who has the ultimate power here the Hague or Florida courts?
JJ is starting to remind me of Kelly Rutherford, and I hope Sophie hires Daniel’s lawyers.
I’m Marple-ing this to see Joe being OK with going to live in England with Sophie and the kids. But then he went on tour, with the kids and Sophie in England. His family convinced him the kids had to stay in the US and a coldly brutal divorce from Sophie and getting custody was the only way forward. What an asshole.
Apparently he filed in Florida on the last possible day he could claim residency there. You get to claim legal residency for a while after you leave, mainly because of the need to wrap up paying bills, closing accounts, etc. A move like this is really stretching things.
I think the letter means a lot.
He made a promise to his wife. They sold their home. They began to buy a new home in the U.K. Joe clearly expressed excitement and a desire for his children to live there.
And now all of that is gone. It’s a complete 180 from what they were planning to do. What they had partially done.
I completely understand Sophie’s position.
PR game is important and permeates the minds of all involved, including the courts, even just a little. We are only human, we absorb info and make judgement calls.
Not a fan of Sophie Turner or Joe Jonas, so I’m not sad for either of them. Seeing Sophie experience all the nastiness she wanted for Meghan Markle and watching Joe’s dirty tricks damage his public reputation is rather entertaining for me.
Having gotten that out of the way, Joe was trying to set Sophie up, IMO. He was telling her they’d move to the UK so they could sell their home in the US, eliminating their biggest joint asset ahead of a divorce. He’s been planning his exit for a while. He never wanted to move to the UK.
Friends, please let this and many other celeb divorces be a lesson to you, even if you are happy, even if things are great (especially when both those things are true)- keep a file on your spouse. Bank accounts and pws, recent paystub, recent performance reviews, notes, whatever. You don’t have to use it and I hope you don’t. But I’ve known too many women with a more powerful husband be absolutely blindsided by a divorce and be unprepared. <3
Thank you for saying that.
Also, I’m trying to think of a higher profile gay/lesbian divorce where one partner got so publicly vicious with the other, but maybe this is a recall bias?
@B The Melissa Ethridge & Tammy Lynne Michaels split got really nasty
May I add, always have a bank account with money in your own name.
But if you have secret money are you not then withholding assets?
An account in your own name — preferably solely in your own name — doesn’t have to be a secret. Many couples do yours/mine/ and ours accounts.
My mother used to tell me to never give up my financial independence in a relationship. She emphasized getting a good education and a job that would support me. Don’t rely on your partner for money. If things go pear shaped, they can control you.
Here’s the thing: he has his chickens in a row. Sophie will win in the court of public opinion. Joe will win in a court of law. It is extraordinarily difficult to move children to another country without an involved parents consent. They will end up negotiating. She is young and doesn’t understand this game. A letter is meaningless. Circumstances change. She has no legal footing here. It would serve them all best to end the public war and settle in mediation, save time money and effort, because inevitably they will have to do just that. Careful who you have your children with. His entire family is a shield around him with powerful attorneys and he has most recently been sole caregiver. He planned it all. I’d of seen this coming if I were her and canceled all work obligations, had the children with me and filed first. She had to have known there was trouble. It’s hard to move out of the defensive with custody battles. But hindsight is 20 20. I hope they work it out. He seems prepared to play dirty. I can see it on him. And not stop. She’s young and a new mother balancing a lot without that equal visible family support. I hope she finds a way to negotiate and avoid a real war for the kids sakes.
Why in the world do you assume it is on her to negotiate? Or avoid the potential war about what is best for their children? Never acquiesce in giving up your power.
Are you an attorney? The letter is not meaningless at all. It supplies intent, and it supplies evidence (along with other documents) that he is not (or was not at one time in the recent past) opposed to their children being in the UK on at least a semi-permanent basis.
Odds are, they will mediate this out, and odds are they will both have to compromise and the children will be able to spent time both in the US and in the UK per some sort of joint-custody agreement.
To say the letter is meaningless is 100% wrong. As a former court reporter and legal assistant, I have seen judges (in Florida, no less!) accept text messages into evidence in custody cases, voice mail messages, and social media posts most of were far less verbose and enthusiastic than this letter.
Again, a divorce IS a civil case. This isn’t true crime and innocent until proven guilty – the letter is evidence of intent, and it’s 100% relevant here. Some of y’all need to check your interalized misogyny.
also, is she really moving the kids to the UK? They have an actual domicile in the UK but none in the US as the family had already relocated to the UK (based on the leased housing, enrollment of the oldest in school, and purchase of a permanent home) and the kids came to the US with their father to be on tour with him over the Summer because their father was working at night but had more availability to be with them during waking hours than their mother did for a certain period of time while she was filming)
Looks like they were already living in the UK.
The kids already live in the UK. I don’t understand how everyone so willingly ignores that. They went to school there, had a house there (no longer had a house in the US). He’s the one trying to get the kids back to the US by visiting family with them in the US. And him actually taking care of his own dang kids for a few months does not even come close to the years she was the sole caregiver while he toured.
Half hearted lawyer here. Sophie didn’t “release” this letter, she filed it with the court as evidence in support of her case and Page Six had someone pull the file and copy the docs (they are public records unless under seal, like Angelina/Brad divorce). It is really to refute Joe’s claims that the family never intended to live in the UK at the conclusion of his August tour dates.
Is he entitled to change his mind? Sure, but you don’t sign a p&s and enroll your kids in school somewhere you don’t *really* intend to live unless you are a total b@stard. Kids aren’t pawns in your petty divorce.
This.
Humans: I don’t care about either party but have you considered that the PR war Turner is fighting is to appear like she lost because misogyny and that in reality she wants her freedom but without the GDMF Bad!Mom label women get tagged with? See also “what was really on the ring video”. Creepy or not, Ring cameras record footage and audio so Jonas likely has whatever he saw to use against her and people don’t play fair or discrete in these cases as a rule.
There is no way her lawyer doesn’t know about residency rules and despite all the smoke from the he-done-her-wrong spin, feelings don’t matter in court. Residency is residency and Jonas won that fight before Turner was even in the ring.
Right now, she is fighting for visitation, mark my words. If she really felt she had a case for UK family court, she’d have filed but no UK lawyer is that dumb to file that case and wear the consequences because absolutely zero standing.
She filed in NY specifically to fog-of-war for visitation and financials as a bargaining tactic, I bet. Frankly, NY family court will dismiss her case because Florida residency so this is all PR right now. Her legal team is hoping to pressurize Jonas but TBH, I don’t think it will work. His team knows they own the field right now.
Okay Joe, whatever you say.
@AlwaysAssumeitsPR He wasn’t awarded primary physical custody, nor is there any reason to assume the he will get primary physical custody as she has been the primary caregiver to the children, so why do you think she is fighting for visitation?
Also he didn’t “win” the residency fight. There is a temporary order to keep the girls in the US (NYC for now) but that doesn’t mean that Turner will have to become a permanent resident of the US to gain any physical custody of the children
AlwaysAssumeItsPR, her filing in NY specifically said she would be filing in the UK. If I understand the story behind the ‘Ring’ video, Joe got the code from the landlord behind Sophie’s back and the supposed discussion he recorded happened INSIDE the house. He will not be using that because according to what I read, he would be in trouble in the UK for recording without people knowing about it.
The fact that Sophie is doing all of her talking in Court filings–yes, the letter is in a Court filing–says that she’s more concerned about the children than anything else. She hasn’t said anything about Joe. But, I agree that Joe has waged quite the PR campaign. I’m happy that it’s backfiring on him.
Its not just the letter about a wish to buy. They sold their house in Florida and signed a contract on a new house in the UK and the kids are enrolled in preschool. They used to live in NYC and Joe wanted to live closer to his family that’s why they moved to Florida. I don’t think it’s unreasonable that Sophie also wanted to live close to her family at a point. To me it looks like everything in that relationship was on joes terms- and I suspect that’s why he is a creeper on young women that he can control.
Also the kids were in the Uk in the spring and the eldest daughter moved to Atlanta when she was filming there. Sophie has always been the main carer and hardy worked during the last 3 years. And given that joe is always on tour the idea that Florida is some kind of established home and that the kids should necessarily live there looks weak
And i don’t think her main issue with him is the fact that he didn’t want to move to the Uk although given that she’s moved wherever he wanted during their rs it must be disappointing that he wouldn’t cater to her needs. I think it’s the fact that he clearly wants her to be a stay at home wife and mom while he travels around endlessly on tour and djs. He wanted a young wife but expect her to be some kind of Victorian housewife.
The wish to buy means nothing legally. There is no sale until contracts are exchanged at final disposition. English real estate is different fro North American real estate. Contracts aren’t exchanged until the actual day of sale; people can back out right until the actual minute before money is supposed to be exchanged at 459PM when the sale has to close at 5. There is no legal recourse unless the contracts *and* money is exchanged. A deposit is not considered party to that because a buyer forfeits it without it being viable for suit; it’s like a reservation. It’s why first-time buyers are the prom Queen in a porno there, it means there is no chain so no other agreement nullification can collapse the sale and impact others.
Moreover, you can’t register for pre-school without an address and you can’t use an address that isn’t yours legally either as an owner or a tenant to do so. It’s PR flummery to claim otherwise. You can request a hold on a place where you might register, but an address is required to register based on what a colleague in UK explained to me.
Their residency and primary home was Florida. They moved from NY to Florida. That is where the case will be heard because their residency regardless of whether they were moving or not is Florida under the law for divorce proceedings. The sale of the house in August 2023 is the icing on the legal cake for the residency argument.
This is why I think she’s using NY and media releases to try and pressurize Jonas to settle. Bad press is currency and it’s all she has to spend fighting him right now from what I can see.
AlwaysAssumeItsPR, well, they rented a house for pity’s sake. If that doesn’t help establish residency, that will be a surprise for everyone else who rent in the UK. Since the court docs say that one of the children was, in fact, attending preschool I think renting is fine.
I’m team Sophie.
Okay, I have some thoughts. First, I think the reason he filed in Florida is because of the Uniform Child Custody Jurisdiction and Enforcement Act, which states that jurisdiction is proper in the home state of the children, which is where they’ve lived for the past 6 months. My guess is that he filed when he did because they hadn’t been in the UK for 6 months yet and he saw this as his best shot to get a leg up in the custody piece of the divorce. There are ways to get around it but this is my guess for why he filed when and where he did.
I also strongly disagree that this letter she included in her filing is meaningless. That’s going to be good evidence (along with this like school registration records) when they inevitably litigate the Jurisdiction issue and the parenting time issues.
And FWIW, I don’t usually pick sides all that strongly in celeb divorces, but I’m very much Team Sophie. F*ck that guy.
Thank you for clarifying the court jurisdiction issue which I question somewhere above. I’m also wondering where the Hague fits into this. Do their rulings override a state ruling?
And yes, what a POS he is! To have to deal with this at her young age. I hope she has lots of support in real life and not just online.
That letter holds no legal water. It shows intent, but to me it seems she was trying to trick him into the move, he caught on and everything went tits up after that. Now she’s playing victim on a promise.
Eh, so he was “tricked” into signing a contract to buy a multi-million-dollar home in the UK? She “tricked” him into writing a gushing letter in order to win the bid for that home?
She is not playing victim. She is filing legal documents to build a case for custody of her children in the UK after their father changed his mind on where they should grow up – because instead of discussing it with her like a rational adult, he schemes to get the children in his turf and plays PR games instead.
ExpatInTheUK, I agree.
Sophie didn’t release the letter. It was part of her legal filing, which was public.