Prince Archie and Princess Lilibet are both American citizens, I’m pretty sure. Lili is a natural-born American citizen, because Meghan and Harry were living in California and that’s where they welcomed Lili. Archie was born in the UK, but because Meghan is an American citizen, she likely sought and received American citizenship for her son. It’s trickier with Archie, but I’ve assumed this whole time that Archie has dual British-American citizenship. Anyway, my point is that when all else fails, Meghan, Archie and Lili are American citizens and they’ll carry American passports. But there’s a catch – apparently, Harry wanted his children to have British passports as well, perhaps to emphasize their dual citizenship. But circa late 2022-2023, the British officials were slow-walking the passports for the kids. That seems to be the root of the “Harry spoke to the Earl Spencer about changing his family’s surname to Spencer” story. From the Guardian’s exclusive:
The Duke and Duchess of Sussex explored the idea of changing their family name to Spencer amid repeated delays by British officials to issue passports for their children, the Guardian has been told. The suggestion was a result of “sheer exasperation” and came during a face-to-face meeting between Prince Harry and his uncle Earl Spencer. He was understood to be enthusiastic and supportive of the name change.
Adopting the birth name of his mother, Diana, would probably have further deepened the rift between the Harry and the royal family, which shows no signs of being healed.
However, the discussion became moot because the UK passports for Prince Archie and Princess Lilibet were finally issued almost six months after the initial applications – days after lawyers for the Sussexes sent a letter threatening to pursue a data subject access request. This could have revealed details of the delays – and the nature of any behind-the-scenes discussions between British officials responsible for issuing the documents.
One source told the Guardian that the duke and duchess had feared that UK officials were dragging their feet because the passport applications included the titles HRH (His/Her Royal Highness) for both children. The applications also used the surname Sussex, which the family had already started using publicly; until 2023, Archie had US and British passports under the name Mountbatten-Windsor.
“There was clear reluctance to issue passports for the kids,” a source close to the Sussexes said.
The standard wait time for a passport is three weeks. But after three months without receiving them because of “technical issues”, it is understood Harry and Meghan reapplied using the 24-hour passport service, only to have their meeting cancelled at the last minute owing to a “systems failure.”
The source claimed that “the king hadn’t wanted Archie and Lili to carry the titles, most of all the HRH, and the British passports, once created, would be the first and perhaps the only legal proof of their names… Harry was at a point where British passports for his children with their updated Sussex surnames (since the death of Queen Elizabeth II) were being blocked with a string of excuses over the course of five months.
“Out of sheer exasperation he went to his uncle to effectively say: ‘My family are supposed to have the same name and they’re stopping that from happening because the kids are legally HRH, so if push comes to shove, if this blows up and they won’t let the kids be called Sussex, then can we use Spencer as a surname?’”
The Guardian understands that Prince Harry wants to keep the HRH titles for his children so that when they grow older they can decide for themselves whether they want to become working royals, or stay out of public life.
From what I gather from this report, Archie already had a British passport issued under the Mountbatten-Windsor surname, which means that Harry and Meghan were applying for new passports for their children after QEII’s death. Which is what I originally thought with the “Spencer name change” story – it sounded like a back-up plan from when King Charles was dragging his feet about whether he would change the George V letters patent. There were months (roughly September 2022 through March 2023) where Harry and Meghan had no idea whether the new king was going to strip them of their Sussex titles or strip the kids of their HRHs.
As for the British officials playing games with issuing the passports… yet another establishment stitch-up, huh? It’s shocking how much power Buckingham Palace wields over bureaucratic sh-t like this. Pretty soon, we’ll hear from a royal expert that it’s absurd that Harry would demand passports for his children, how dare he! Also: it’s interesting that in this version of the story, Charles Spencer advised Harry to make the name change.
Photos courtesy of Avalon Red, Cover Images.
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- LONDON, ENGLAND – JUNE 03: Prince Harry, Duke of Sussex, and Meghan, Duchess of Sussex attend the National Service of Thanksgiving at St Paul’s Cathedral on June 03, 2022 in London, England. The Platinum Jubilee of Elizabeth II is being celebrated from June 2 to June 5, 2022, in the UK and Commonwealth to mark the 70th anniversary of the accession of Queen Elizabeth II on 6 February 1952.,Image: 696611774, License: Rights-managed, Restrictions: -, Model Release: no, Credit line: Dan Kitwood / Avalon
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- The Duke and Duchess of Sussex arrive for the National Service of Thanksgiving at St Paul’s Cathedral, London, on day two of the Platinum Jubilee celebrations for Queen Elizabeth II. The National Service marks The Queen’s 70 years of service to the people of the United Kingdom, the Realms and the Commonwealth. Public service is at the heart of the event and over 400 recipients of Honours in the New Year or Birthday Honours lists have been invited in recognition of their contribution to public life. Drawn from all four nations of the United Kingdom, they include NHS and key workers, teaching staff, public servants, and representatives from the Armed Forces, charities, social enterprises and voluntary groups.,Image: 696614021, License: Rights-managed, Restrictions: -, Model Release: no, Credit line: Kirsty O’Connor / Avalon
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- Prince Harry and Meghan Markle, Duke and Duchess of Sussex arrive for a service of thanksgiving for the reign of Queen Elizabeth II at St Paul’s Cathedral in London, Friday, June 3, 2022 on the second of four days of celebrations to mark the Platinum Jubilee. The events over a long holiday weekend in the U.K. are meant to celebrate the monarch’s 70 years of service.,Image: 696621832, License: Rights-managed, Restrictions: -, Model Release: no, Credit line: Matt Dunham / Avalon
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- The Duke and Duchess of Sussex leave the National Service of Thanksgiving at St Paul’s Cathedral, London, on day two of the Platinum Jubilee celebrations for Queen Elizabeth II. The National Service marks The Queen’s 70 years of service to the people of the United Kingdom, the Realms and the Commonwealth. Public service is at the heart of the event and over 400 recipients of Honours in the New Year or Birthday Honours lists have been invited in recognition of their contribution to public life. Drawn from all four nations of the United Kingdom, they include NHS and key workers, teaching staff, public servants, and representatives from the Armed Forces, charities, social enterprises and voluntary groups.,Image: 696633859, License: Rights-managed, Restrictions: -, Model Release: no, Credit line: Kirsty O’Connor / Avalon
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- Prince Harry and Meghan Markle, Duke and Duchess of Sussex leave after a service of thanksgiving for the reign of Queen Elizabeth II at St Paul’s Cathedral in London, Friday, June 3, 2022 on the second of four days of celebrations to mark the Platinum Jubilee. The events over a long holiday weekend in the U.K. are meant to celebrate the monarch’s 70 years of service.,Image: 696642820, License: Rights-managed, Restrictions: -, Model Release: no, Credit line: Matt Dunham / Avalon
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- Meghan, Duchess of Sussex, and Prince Harry, Duke of Sussex arrive for the National Service of Thanksgiving at St Paul’s Cathedral on June 03, 2022 in London, England. The Platinum Jubilee of Elizabeth II is being celebrated from June 2 to June 5, 2022, in the UK and Commonwealth to mark the 70th anniversary of the accession of Queen Elizabeth II on 6 February 1952.,Image: 696678032, License: Rights-managed, Restrictions: -, Model Release: no, Credit line: ARTHUR EDWARDS / Avalon
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- Meghan, Duchess of Sussex, and Prince Harry, Duke of Sussex arrive for the National Service of Thanksgiving at St Paul’s Cathedral on June 03, 2022 in London, England. The Platinum Jubilee of Elizabeth II is being celebrated from June 2 to June 5, 2022, in the UK and Commonwealth to mark the 70th anniversary of the accession of Queen Elizabeth II on 6 February 1952.,Image: 696678053, License: Rights-managed, Restrictions: -, Model Release: no, Credit line: ARTHUR EDWARDS / Avalon
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- NOT AVAILABLE FOR PUBLICATION IN THE NETHERLANDS OR FRANCE – London, UK -20220603- Service of Thanksgiving for the Queen, marking the monarch’s 70 year Platinum Jubilee, at St Paul`s Cathedral -PICTURED: Prince Harry Duke of Sussex -PHOTO by: Dutch Press Photo/Cover Images/INSTARimages.com -51631543.jpg This is an editorial, rights-managed image. Please contact Instar Images LLC for licensing fee and rights information at sales@instarimages.com or call +1 212 414 0207 This image may not be published in any way that is, or might be deemed to be, defamatory, libelous, pornographic, or obscene. Please consult our sales department for any clarification needed prior to publication and use. Instar Images LLC reserves the right to pursue unauthorized users of this material. If you are in violation of our intellectual property rights or copyright you may be liable for damages, loss of income, any profits you derive from the unauthorized use of this material and, where appropriate, the cost of collection and/or any statutory damages awarded Featuring: Prince Harry Duke of Sussex Where: London, England, United Kingdom When: 03 Jun 2022 Credit: Dutch Press Photo/Cover Images/INSTARimages.com **NOT AVAILABLE FOR PUBLICATION IN THE NETHERLANDS OR FRANCE**
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Doesn’t surprise me one bit that they played with getting the kids their British passports. Just shows how Chuckles has his fingers in everything! Let’s now hear about how Chuckles is so sad that his grandchildren are being kept from seeing him. Drip drip drip the information comes out that Chuckles is a poor excuse for a parent, grandparent and human.
Honestly cannot believe they were holding onto those passports for 6 months. That’s wild. And was it really just because they didn’t want a record of the HRH on Archie and Lili’s names? What was their plan? To hold onto them forever? To figure out a way to not put the HRH on the passports? 6 months had gone by and the brain trust at Winder clear hadn’t figured out a way to get out of it. So were they just going to keep holding onto them? These people are the worst.
Well, I’m also wondering if delaying the passports meant that the Sussex family wouldn’t be able to travel — at all, anywhere — unless they also had US passports? So doing this would be another way to attempt to control the Sussex family. If they did have — and chose to use — US passports while they waited for the British ones, I’m sure that would have quickly and explosively become fodder for the British media.
Jais:desperately waiting for the divorce???
“Prince Harry wants to keep the HRH titles for his children so that when they grow older they can decide for themselves whether they want to become working royals, or stay out of public life.”
There is no f*cking way Harry would want this for his children. What he would want is them having their birth right, like every white person in that family. That is also what Meghan asked. Why would Charles want to change the rules for the first biracial baby born into BRF?
What I believe, his uncle would support Harry. He knows what Charles and that family are capable of.
Uncle and aunt keens made it clear how they feel about the Sussex children. I doubt they’d want to go back
This is fanfic from the people back there. Some of them have seemed to finally realize that Harry and Meghan aren’t coming back so now they’re hoping that Archie and Lili will. Which makes zero sense.
Why would they ever want to? Discounting the fact that they would have to work under their frankly unhinged uncle, who would live a life outside of the ” Firm”, have direct evidence of what they treat people like that join, and literally not do anything else than go back?
@Dee(2), when this first appeared in tabloids, I also thought it was made up. But this article points out that the process of the kids’ passports was blocked. It makes BRF look bad, so I think there is some truth in it, which Harry was so close to cut all ties to his father because he was playing with his babies’ paperwork. I don’t think this would be leaked by Harry or his uncle, but probably some palace people who were doing this behind the scenes. Maybe, Harry also asked the government officials if they can change his whole family’s surname then and the process about that.
@Sevenblue oh no I believe the part about them wanting change their name. I meant the part about Lily and Archie coming back as working royals and that’s why Harry wanted the HRH on their passports. I just can’t imagine after all that he went through in his life, what he watched his wife go through, and all that they endured to leave and are still enduring now that he literally want his kids in that environment.
This is why the Guardian keeps losing subscribers, because they post idiotic and lying sh*t like this. The kids are HRH by right, that has NEVER had anything to do with “working royal” status. Instead of pointing out the FACTS, they go the tabloid route and claim “The Guardian understands…” which is tabloid speak for “we are talking out of our arse”. But they have to give something to the haters, I guess, to get the clicks they crave. Pillocks. For a country whose citizenry always makes such a huge deal about “royal tradition”, they sure like to ignore (toss out!) tradition when it comes to the mixed-race family members. Quelle surprise. Not.
At this point, Byline Times and Forces News are perhaps the only two UK news organisations which are not tabloids.
The Guardian must be heading down the tabloid route now. That’s where the money and clicks are. Sad state of affairs really. Britain is ruled and ruined by tabloid culture.
@Magdalena – Guardian has done some good reporting like Queen’s/King’s consent, royal jewels gone missing, and some of this story. But they still pay for tabloid tilt content, like the anti-Meghan screeds of Martina Hoyden. For a fuller accurate picture of what’s been going on here, I would very highly recommend Feminegra article, “Harry and Meghan Considered Spencer Surname as Palace Blocked Their Children’s Passports.” https://feminegra.com/harry-and-meghan-considered-spencer-surname-as-palace-blocked-their-childrens-passports/
@Blogger – I’d add ‘as enabled by royals’ to “Britain is ruled and ruined by tabloid culture.” It’s truly BRFCo & Assoc.
So that bit actually began with “The Guardian understands Prince Harry wants…” And yeah that’s the Guardian being assholes and stirring shit up despite the fact that it’s clear they were given an exclusive after the DM twisted the story. This feels like a response to the DM reporting that Charles Spencer would not be okay with the name change.
What’s wild is that because it’s the Guardian, people are taking it at face value as truth. “Well, they’re legitimate, so…” And even Maria on Lainey’s site is doing that by saying that since The Guardian and People agree it must be true as if anyone has any actual insider information on H&M. It’s ridiculous.
That’s deranger territory. So it must be true that Harry wants them to be working royals one day…for his brother William. GMAFB. People are stupid if they believe that. He’s saying they can one day choose to keep their HRH or not. The titles exist and are independent of whether someone is a working royal. Harry and Meghan both have HRH titles right now and aren’t working royals. Neither are Beatrice or Eugenie but they have HRH titles too. He’d like Archie and Lili to decide if they want to keep those titles as adults which… still does not mean they would be working royals? So believing this just bc the Guardian wrote “the Guardian understands…” is a choice. To buy into that, a person is either a deranger or a low-intelligence person who lacks discernment in media literacy. Bc, wait for it, shocker…even legacy media plays fast and loose with information and propaganda. Duh.
harry’s kids are never going to be working royals and no way in hell does he want them to be – “sure kids, it was hell for your mother and me, but reach out to uncle willy and see if he’ll let you give it a try!”
I mean….that wasnt happening before they left, no way is it something they even contemplate for their children now. Harry probably loves that his kids get to actually consider “what do I want to be when I grow up” in a meaningful way.
Exactly. Didn’t Jane Goodall claim that Harry told her that Archie wasn’t doing all that (royal wave) in 2019. I took that to mean his kids wouldnt be doing duties
Charles Spencer literally despise the Royal family. Chucky and mistress queen are probably on his sh*t list forever fir what they did to his sister.
I wonder who is leaking this story. People’s passports are confidential. And the way the people in these institutions are behaving badly over Harry really questions the professionalism of Whitehall etc.
Truly pathetic.
I’m kinda wondering if it was Charles Spencer who leaked it. “You keep bleating you don’t want my sister’s son? Great, we’ll claim him.” kind of thing.
Especially since the original story had him saying no to the idea and in this story he’s all about it.
Harry would use his own name. Maybe add Spencer as a middle name.instead
Harry would choose a name that his entire family would share. It would make things easier as a family traveling if they all had the same last name.
Hell is waiting on Charles. Enjoy your spoils and riches now because soon none of this will matter for you. Your legacy has been destroyed because of the way you have treated your son and your biracial grandchildren. The gutter journalist in the UK press will not be able to help you. Happy Harry and Meghan are persistent in looking out for their kids. Hopeful those same kids will stay far away from the Windsor/Wales clan when they grow up.
Could not have said it better, to target his own grandchildren is pure evil.
In his eyes, they are Diana’s grandchildren therefore they’re totally expendable.
I really wish this “will KCIII strip them of their Sussex titles” speculation will stop. He can issue a letters patent for the HRH but only Parliament can remove the ducal titles and they won’t unless they want to effectively remove the titles of everyone. The whole point of those titles is to reinforce this classist bullshit about some being better than others through the aristocracy. Make all that meaningless because one king and his older son are petty little toddlers isn’t something Parliament and the aristocracy want to do. Charles has no actual authority to remove them.
Not only would this have to go through parliament, but commonwealth realms have to be consulted, etc, too. Imagine how this would look. So it ain’t going to happen. Not now and not when William’s King. Don’t forget that they’re aware Harry held back 400 pages from Spare and knows where the bodies are buried, metaphorically speaking …. 🤔
Exactly, which is why it’s incredibly annoying that it keeps being brought up as if it’s a thing that even has a chance of happening.
This is a man who has evicted them from their home, told them that they can’t have security unless he invites them and they stay on Royal property so he can know what they’re doing, won’t give their children passports that they are legally entitled to because he doesn’t want them to have the ability ( probably for future legal reasons) to have proof of citizenship and their names. It’s truly despicable how the need for control has totally twisted these people and how the government is just letting it happen, but wants you to believe he’s this poor benevolent old Grandpa.
It’s pretty wild that the BRF sycophants like to write about how it’s just impossible for Charles to speak to Harry because he can’t trust that their conversations won’t become public. If this is the type of stuff that you’re doing in the background you should be afraid of that. And to act like he doesn’t have any control or real power is the truly frightening part. How entrenched do you have to be to even be aware of a 24 hour passport service application to block it? Unless you have flags in all systems to let you know when they are there and what they are doing?
Charles not only leaked stories he was out in the open when he slammed his parents through the dimbleby book
He outed his affair with a married woman in a tv interview and through his book causing the,Parker Bowles to divorce.
It’s clear that the BP/KP vipers put some notice out to the passport office to notify them if Harry and Meghan applied for passports for their children, just so that they could try to block them, as occurred. They again stupidly didn’t realise that Harry would get his lawyers involved.
The vipers then realised how awful and racist it would look if it came out that they were once again attempting to deny the children their birthright so once the lawyers got involved they had to give way.
I’ll bet they have done this with every other instance that they feel H+M could possibly contact organisations in the UK.
What I wonder is why BP/KP leaked the “name change” story now: what are they covering up? And now they’ve again got egg on their faces because (1) the Guardian revealed that the real reason Harry contemplated the name change was because of palace interference AND (2) confirmed that Archie and Lili are indeed also HRH – contrary to what the lying royal rota rats have been insisting since the children became Prince and Princess.
Again, this is “bespoke” treatment and I hope Harry continues to unravel who is behind this delay.
Six months for a passport? GMAFB. Harry is not a criminal. He is not a terrorist. Yet they treat him in this manner. I have never heard of anyone waiting six months for a passport.
There’s a process. Somewhere along the line, they took his kids application out of the process. That’s where the glitch in the process lies. Time for some sunlight on who, what and when because no matter how petty the explanation, the public servants in charge are going to get tarnished by this inappropriate influence from the Palace. Time to have a look at the organisational chart…
I don’t think this matter demonstrates that the royals have any sort of real power. They can just complicate the workings of the bureaucracy because pencil pushers are still in awe of the titles. That is not power but the royals would like us to think it is. They have absolutely no role in policy. Just window dressing.
Whether one considers the power real were or not, at the end of the day, he is able to use whatever power is at his disposal to put the Sussex family in danger and cause them anguish. That’s pretty disturbing.
@GMH You might want to read The Guardian’s series on Queen’s (now King’s) consent. I wonder if you’ll still think the monarch hasn’t real power?
Was the passport delay resolved before or after we found out Lilibet was Princess Lilibet?
Good question.
How many months did it take them to change it on the website after the queen passed? I can’t remember. I think it was sooner than 6 months but it was still a good while. But that’s on a website. It seemed they also really didn’t want to put it on an actual document.
The website change was after harry and meghan announced her baptism which I think was spring 2023? that doesnt sound entirely right to me but I know H&M forced the palace’s hand in terms of updating the website.
Hmm. So maybe it was 6 months or more then. Interesting.
Could H&M have referred to Lili as Princess Lilibet in announcing her baptism without having the legal documentation (passport) to do so? I think the passport application forced KFC to finally bestow on A&L their rightful titles of Prince and Princess. Was that by accident or design is up for debate?
They slow walked the addition of both children to the line of succession. They slow walked their passports. The royal racists can’t even pretend they accept those kids. And to refuse them security on top of everything. I want all of this thrown in the so-called Kings face if anyone boo hoos about him not seeing the kids. He’s interfered in their safety and their identity. The only recourse Harry and Meghan has is to publicly shame them. So glad they escaped from that cult. So sad for the next victims on the chopping block:the younger Wales kids.
Totally agree with all of this, lanne.
Charles being outed as one of the royal racists continues to ring so true. This is one more piece of evidence that he doesn’t care about his Sussex grandchildren.
When I read the story at first I thought why not getting American passports for the children. Thinking about this I feel this was more to secure the children’s birthright to the title HRH and that Harry, Meghan, Archie and Lilibeth have the same surname chosen by Harry and Meghan. Meghan said in WLM how important it is for her to have the same surname as her children.
I agree, but I also think it might really have been about giving the kids choices when they grow up, as Harry said. It seems really unlikely they’d want to be “working royals” after all the sh!t that family has dumped on them. But they might, for whatever reason, want to live in Britain or even use their HRH titles.
For sure Harry does not see his kids as working royals. But of course, they don’t have to be working royals to have an hrh as adults, like Eugenie and Beatrice. Harry is very clear on who his brother is and to be a working royal with William as king? Lol no. And there’s no way William would allow that either. So it’s feels moot.
They may have US passports already, but they may have wanted the children to have British passports to match Harry assuming he doesn’t have a US passport. Or maybe they were advised the children had to have British passports to stay in the line of succession so they applied and then were stalled.
Small thing, but Archie is a natural-born US citizen.
I remember this because I was so baffled by the UK media’s coverage of his citizenship status. It was like they couldn’t comprehend that the US has different laws, so they kept saying things like Meghan would have to “apply” for his citizenship, but that wasn’t true. She would have needed to apply for a formal confirmation from the state department, but he was born a citizen.
Thank you, this is indeed correct. I too, am flabbergasted each time I see people wondering whether Archie is an American citizen, saying that his parents would need to “apply” for citizenship for him, and questioning whether he could run for President (saying Lili could, but he could not), etc. He was born a US citizen. End of.
I understood that Archie was an American citizen upon birth because he met the requirements, Meghan is an American, but was not a “natural born” citizen because he wasn’t born in the US, whereas Lili was born in the US so there was never a question.
It’s definitely confusing! The term apparently dates back to like the 17th century so it’s not really suited for our modern travel (or even just 19th century tech). But no, natural born just means born a citizen, anyone who doesn’t have to go through naturalization is natural born.
KK, No, Meghan had to claim American citizenship for Archie. It isn’t automatic unless there’s been a rule change from earlier this century. I had six weeks from their birth to claim citizenship for my kids at the US embassy.
Personally, I’m shocked this story was true. Not in retrospect, the part about KC and crew blocking the British passports, but that H&M were considering a name change to Spencer.
This makes the royals look like vile trash again–I wonder why this story was leaked to the Daily Fail and made it into The Guardian (albeit with slightly different versions).
Don’t want to get too hung up on semantics (the meaning of natural born is more important) but currently you have to apply for a consular report of birth abroad, and the state department says “a CRBA documents that your child was a U.S. citizen at birth”
So there is an application but it’s not for citizenship. Or I guess you could say, it’s to verify, not grant.
I can’t find the correspondence anymore, but I had to prove I’d been in the US as a child (school records) and an adult (work) in order to give my kids my citizenship. My husband isn’t a citizen, but we needed our marriage certificate. My husband had to assure them that he didn’t want an automatic green card. It was definitely for applying for the kids’ citizenship during the Bush (W) and Obama years. The people at the American Embassy are incredibly friendly if you have everything in order. If not (say a baby photo doesn’t show enough of your kid’s ear), things don’t work. They were quite clear about the citizenship requirements for our kids.
Edit: according to the website I saw, 2 years after age 14 in my case. My school records were not enough–I had to show employment.
Yes, the CRBA has some paperwork requirements
Archie was automatically a U.S. citizen at birth because his mother was a U.S. citizen at that time. They wouldn’t have needed to apply for his citizenship, but they would have had to fill out a few forms to report his birth in a foreign country. My parents had to do the same thing when I was born. It’s a few more steps than what they needed for Lili’s birth, but both children were American citizens at birth, as well as British.
If you want to get a passport for your kid or a social security number or whatever, they need to be registered as a US citizen, and you have a limited timeframe to do that and everything has to go according to what the embassy wants. That’s what I’m trying to say. If I hadn’t registered the kids, they could enter the States on a Dutch passport–they wouldn’t be citizens. Some people choose this. Once they are citizens, they can only come to the US on an American passport. They aren’t automatically US citizens (if born abroad).
🎯
“. . . days after lawyers for the Sussexes sent a letter threatening to pursue a data subject access request.”
One thing the BRF should know by now is that HRH Prince Henry, Duke of Sussex is not going to keep their royal BS stitch-up unexamined. He’s going to go as far as necessary to know how and why. #court #datasubjectaccessrequest #FOIA
That information should kill “the Chuck misses his grandchildren and want to see them” BS. He and his minions were working to obscure their identities and make sure their was no egalitarian documentation that Britain was their home.
That’s key. They would have held the passports longer if they could have. It was only this action that thad them releasing it in mere days.
Damn you autocorrect
“He and his minions were working to obscure their identities and make sure THERE was no LEGAL documentation that Britain was their home.”
That quite a bit of reporting by the Guardian documenting one clear and specific way the BRF is using bureaucracy against Harry to deny him and his family what is theirs by right. Will the British people take notice?
I’m sure there are those in the saltine tin regretting the loss of power to haphazardly #banish people.
I wonder which public official they’ll throw under the bus when push comes to shove.
These dueling stories are so confusing, one says Uncle Spencer discouraged Harry from changing his name, the other says he was enthusiastic for Harry to do so?! Harry is definitely going to have to write a Spare Part II to clear all of this up!
I believe everything in this story except that Harry wants his children to be working royals. So why did the DM twist the story into something else and why is the Palace still leaking Harry’s personal affairs to the press?
@Amy Bee
Indeed the story has some merit!! The quotes are interesting 🤔…. but that piece about working royals is not quoted.
exactly. That part was prefaced as the guardian understands… To which I would say no the guardian doesn’t understand sh-t if that’s what they’re coming up with please. But the rest checks out.
@Jais
Exactly!! Harry wanted his family to be eligible for royal security protection when they traveled to the UK. Taking the Oprah interview into consideration, I believe he expected the children’s titles would have ensured they received the proper security as royals.
That is why that snippet about his children being ‘working royals’ is not a quote. It is not something that is attributed to Harry. It’s a reporter’s unhealthy speculation.
Good point. He had hoped that the titles would help in getting his kids security in the uk and this was before the whole security trial. And noe he knows it doesn’t matter other way as they are given the “bespoke” treatment.
Charles is head of the government of the United Kingdom and all its realms. People need to come to terms with that fact to fully understand how the UK government operates and controls what happens to the Sussexes. There is a lot of secrecy that shields the monarch’s influence behind the scenes.
The claim that the monarch is not involved in UK politics is propaganda. If the monarch chooses to intervene, he/she does; the men in suits are his/her intermediaries between the Palace and Downing Street or Whitehall. The tricky part is avoiding a paper trail for interventions that will seem controversial. The very controversial ones are sealed for 99+ years or indefinitely in the case of security.
The monarch’s powers and influence create a great deal of uncertainty. The whole point of bureaucracy is to mitigate uncertainties and address them.
The monarch influencing the passports office to delay his grandchildren’s passport by six months is uncertainty personified. This is not only unusual, it is also highly irregular. Certainties are what bureaucracies thrive on and Chuck is exercising as a tyrant.
@Blogger His intermediaries may have exercised some overreach with the passports unbeknownst to Charles but it is hard to say so with conviction when Charles himself has demonstrated his lack of care or concern for Harry and his young family over the past 7 years. The Windsors are petty and heavy handed so when it comes to handling personal strife, they’ll do whatever it takes to excommunicate one of their own that does not conform to the institution’s demands. They were willing to toss out Princess Margaret when she wanted to marry someone they did not approve of. If I recall, the government at the time was involved in how the decisions concerning Margaret was handled along with the Queen Mother and QEII.
It’s also probably unconstitutional.
Royal sneaky cowards. Reminds me of the wedding tiara issue. These arrogant cowards offered the Royal tiara only after they learnt HM were going for Diana’s Spencer tiara. Wicked people are bad, sneaky cowards are worse, wicked sneaky cowards are worst and that is charles, william and cowmilla. Kate will always be a ‘wanna be’ That’s her achellis heel. That makes her usable.
Definitely buy the passports being held up because of shenanigans out of Buck House. It’s really pathetic how they treat the Sussex kids. They are HRH. They are in the direct line of succession. They are biracial. They are American as well. Fucking hell. 6 years of this bs. Aren’t they tired of the constant stories about how shitty of a parent and grandfather KCIII is?
Charles Spencer would take much pride and glee in sticking it to Charles and the Windsors by approving Harry’s use of the family surname. He hates them.
“Charles Spencer would take much pride and glee in sticking it to Charles and the Windsors by approving Harry’s use of the family surname. He hates them.”
That’s why I think Charles (Earl Spencer) let’s Harry stay at Althorp when he’s in England, and no one knows where he’s at. Harry has security, and it’s a big middle finger to the Windsors, “we can provide the safe place for Harry to stay that you refuse to!”
Good on somebody for getting the real story out there, to correct the DM’s twisted version about Harry wanting to change his name because he’s spiteful and hateful, or something. Impossible to know whether this was Harry and Meghan’s new PR person or Charles Spencer stepping up to set the record straight, but good work. And some of you disagree, but I’m pleased The Guardian (to which I subscribe) published this correction, even with the confusion about working royals.
I, too, don’t believe for a second that Harry wants his kids to be working royals. I mean, maybe if Bulliam is shoved out and George institutes a kinder, more humane BRF, but that’s definitely a long shot. Or maybe, as a good parent, he just doesn’t want to limit any of their future decisions they’d make for themselves. But I’d understand if Harry wants them to have a choice about which country to live in and whether they’d wish to stay identified with the BRF… or not.
I don’t understand this..how is Lili getting a British passport when she was born in America.
I can say for the US, doing a name change on a passport takes months. When I got married it took almost 9 months and two trips to a local passport place to get a new passport with my new name.
Her father is British? It is the same with any British person, I assume. Are Sophie Turner’s kids not British because she gave birth to them in USA with an american husband? In the article, the normal timeline for British passport is provided by Guardian. Why are you comparing this to your situation in USA?
Not sure I believe H would be serious about giving his children the surname Spencer but I wonder whether he used (let slip) that possibility in order to light a fire under KFC.
This is very possible, though he clearly adored his mom and giving his children her surname would be one more way of honoring her.
I think if Harry was frustrated by Palace shenanigans, it is highly likely something he would consider doing to move forward. Harry is one to always look for solutions. He has said so publicly several times in interviews. So yes, if that would solve the problem, he would consider it for sure and take steps such as consulting with his Spencer relatives to get it done.
Thank God Harry and Meghan live in America because apparently his family can make any mundane part of British life enormously difficult. Not only will they make a 3 week process take 6 months but then years later they’ll leak and lie about what they did and try to make you the bad guy.
I would also add that since the firm was making getting the passports with the new Sussex last names difficult they knew for a fact that Meghan’s last name was Sussex. Which means they were being incredibly nasty and disingenuous when on WLM Meghan corrected Mindy and said her last name was Sussex and they acted like Meghan was wrong. For about a week they had their mouthpieces pretending like Meghan was somehow confused or ignorant about her own last name.
By precedence(?), Meghan’s last name became Sussex, exactly as she said, the minute she married Harry. That is because in the UK, people with titles tend to use the titles as their last names, e.g. Princess Beatrice = Beatrice York before her marriage. So her surname was never a secret. It’s just that the UK media, which had no problem calling Kate Middleton “Catherine Cambridge” and then “Catherine Wales” could not stomach the idea of saying or writing Meghan Sussex so they persisted with Markle instead, and pretended it was because of SEO. (Side note: in fact, I side-eye People mag which STILL continues to use splashily use Markle on its front pages despite knowing that Meghan uses, and prefers Sussex).
The vipers at BP and KP were making it difficult for the children to receive their British passports because they didn’t want them to have ANY documentation which identified them as HRH Prince Archie of Sussex and HRH Princess Lilibet of Sussex. All other royals and non-royals with titles have their FULL titles and styles/stylings on their British passports, yet they blocked the Sussex children’s passports for MONTHS until threatened with legal action. They certainly didn’t put up any obstacles to Archie’s first passport being issued, when he was plain Master Archie Mountbatten-Windsor. But racists gonna racist. They can’t even hide it.
@Magdalena
The entire Western media landscape is so very nasty and disrespectful to public figures in general now. I think it started around 2015 – could have been earlier because I wasn’t paying much attention to notice – and continually built up as the years went by. Hate sells, controversy sells. They don’t value people’s humanity anymore. They are all chasing engagement.
Royal reporting heavily depends on Palace connections for stories so the royal institutions have more leverage with the media than the Sussexes because of the power they wield in political and social circles. It’s a quid pro quo arrangement with the media and the royals.
Meghan’s Instagram helps her to connect directly with her fans without palace intermediaries to filter the messages. That account is her strength in the media landscape. The media will bat for the royals over the Sussexes 10 times out of 10. In any article they write about the Sussexes, they will include a perspective from the royals to counter the Sussexes but not always vice versa. Once people come to terms with that reality, they’ll spare themselves stress over how the various publications cover the Sussexes. The media will always make money covering the Sussexes regardless of positive or negative stories.
I think the bureaucracy was holding up the passports to stick it to the Sussexes.
Let’s be very clear about what’s happening here, and let’s use language that people would use if this wasn’t a Western nation. The United Kingdom is attempting to render the head of state’s second son stateless and officially persona non grata in his country of birth, origin, and citizenship. They are attempting to prevent them from being able to have official documents, paperwork, etc. in their names or even give them a surname. His wife is a citizen of a nation whose head of state is openly hostile to both the Prince and his wife. It is incredibly dark. One might laugh, but dangerous exile has been made from less.
Exactly! Remember when they removed Meghan’s name from Prince Archie’s birth certificate? The talk about no titles when he was born, while they were still in the UK. The Heritage foundation harassment. This really is more than just Charles and William being upset about their petty BS bring exposed. They genuinely see the Sussexes as an existential threat to the monarchy. Have seen them that way since we started seeing the pile on of constant negative headlines while they were senior working royals.
Well, when you put it that way…but you’re right. It’s super dark. While the tabloids and the tabloid readers and the loyalists cheer it on. Gruesome.
I didn’t believe this name change story at first because it seemed so random. Now that there is an actual context and something behind it , it makes more sense. The fact that Charles was actively interfering in the children getting their passports to prevent there HRH being on it is absolutely disgusting. He is a piece of sh*t. It seems like the press out this Spencer story out to make Harry look bad, but someone decided to do a bit of digging and once again, the King, who has no power supposedly, is interfering in Harrys life and being obstructionist. All of this is his fault.
Another thing that to me would be unforgivable if it was my father. Charles is a horrible person.
Archie has birthright citizenship given that his mother is a US citizen, and Lili, born on US soil, automatically. Both are US citizens, unquestionably.
Because their father was born in the UK, the children have birthright citizenship in the UK if they are born in another country. H&M’s children have dual citizenship. King Snubby needs to take a seat.
Since the thought was the HRH was the holdup why would they think changing from Sussex to Spencer would help? I doubt this happened, because it would indicate H&M had already settled on Sussex and likely made it legal in the US already. The timeline the article claims doesn’t make sense.
I assumed the Spencer thing was completely made up so I got that wrong.
This guardian report is interesting.. and so sinister. And to think some people claim comments about concerns& palace wanting to remove title & security from Archie was a lie. All the BRF’s actions towards the kids show how fundamentally they want distance from them. That must be so hard for Harry to reconcile with 😔
Sounds like real story is the palace was still trying to look at how they could remove or not recognise the prince & princess titles (not just the HRH) for the kids after Charles became king. If H&M were looking to change the kids passports from MW they would need to know if they could use Sussex or not. Seeing as the palace was playing games maybe ditching Windsor connection of MW altogether and just going by Spencer was a prospect as a last resort.
I wonder if this leaked because the palace found out H&M were discussing putting down Spencer on official documents & that Earl Spencer was ok with it. Changing name isn’t hard in the uk & for kids you just need both parents approval. the discussions seem to relate to names for uk documents. But I think to change names you have to do it by a deed poll which would be published & that would lead to some interesting coverage & questions for the BRF…Maybe similar to idea of Meghan wearing the Spencer tiara- the palace folded rather than have that & also basically confirm that comments from Oprah were right. Especially near the beginning of Charles reign.
Im guessing there are home office/government sources involved in the guardian article because of the references to freedom of info requests etc. I’m more inclined to think government & palace sources is how this got to Tom bower who then twisted it with stuff like Earl Spencer not approving change & insurmountable obstacles etc .
And yes the guardian still has to do tabloid spin with that reference to Harry wanting the kids to choose if they would be working royals. Meghan was clear on Oprah that the titles was for their kids to decide if to use or not. There’s never been suggestion that H&M kids would be working royals esp under the so called slimmed down monarchy structure.
I doubt the children would want to be working royals.
By now people need to know that, when stories about Harry or Meghan appear – in the British tabloid, in their friendly outlets across the pond or amongst the rota rats, the so-called royal experts/commentators – which blame H/M for anything, 9 out of 10 times the reverse had happend/is happening (to, or regarding one of the other royals/royal couples).
It’s a given that these rats practise reverse psychology to bully them and to tarnish their names and reputations.
So yeah, the Fail reported first that Charles Spencer disagreed, now we hear the complete opposite from the Guardian, with more body to the story (the passport and HRH angle); uncle Spencer suppoted Harry ‘s wish to transit to the Spencer surname, if needed.
And by the way, in the case of needed, Lili would be going by “Lilibeth Diana Spencer”.
a sweet revange for the Spencer family, but an absolutely horrible scenario for spitful Charles and jealous Willy.
Thank God Harry made the decision to leave to save his family. I hate the thought of what they would have done to them if they stayed. Harry is steps ahead of the leftovers. Think of the fallout that would occur if they changed their name to Spencer. Honestly, he’s more of a Spencer than he is of that horrid family that was left behind. The leftovers are a joke. They don’t understand how irrelevant this story makes the royal family look. It was stupid for the leftovers to approve its release. The royal family is desperate.
It sounds similar to how they found a tiara for Meghan quickly after learning Spencers offered her one. BRF is still trying to play with Harry, forgetting who his mother was. It is so perfect that Harry doesn’t mind reminding them.
So I think it could have actually been a paperwork issue and the passport people had to literally reach out to the palace for permission to change the passports.
Usually you need a birth certificate or legal name change document to get a passport in your new name, or in the case of marriage, the marriage certificate.
Here, there was nothing apart from the Queen’s death showing that there was a name/title change for the children.
Kate’s legal name other places except the IK is still Middleton. (This was discovered when they sued the French newspaper)
Meghan is legally Meghan Markle in the US unless she filed paperwork with the court to officially be Meghan Sussex, despite the title on her UK passport and despite her use of Sussex.
So, the Sussex kids had birth certificates with other names, and had very publicly said no titles, so it was probably a lot of back end work and back and forth to get the documents issued.
The PARENTS had submitted the applications and they had all the information and evidence they needed to support the applications. If there were any “paperwork” issue all they had to do was contact Meghan and Harry – the parents of the children whose passports were under consideration- to tell them that there was an issue. There was zero need for them to contact the palace unless the palace had been on the alert and demanded that any such applications from H+M be run by the palace. Paperwork issues related to passports do not take 6 months to resolve when applications normally take 3 weeks and there is a 24-hour service.
Amazing how all those issues vanished the minute Harry’s lawyers got involved.
And no, there was no “back and forth”. Harry and Meghan simply heard nothing after they filed the applications and had to keep chasing it up and being stonewalled, and the 24-hour application appoint was cancelled due to a fictitious reason.
Harry and Meghan have NEVER said “no titles” – the palaces put that spin out there in the UK media to give themselves cover for their plan to strip the mixed-race Sussex children of their birthright without being labelled racist. And if there was gong to be any back and forth it should have been with Harry and Meghan. It was not the palaces’ business.
How did the tabloids miss the real controversy behind the name change story? Don’t answer….just being rhetorical.
Yes, they are citizens due to mom, what you fill out are citizen born abroad form and you get a certificate that literally says American citizen born abroad and that can be used with the birth certificate (which may be UK) to obtain a US passport. The same time you get the ssn.
According to American law, both Archie and Lili are natural-born American citizens.
BTW, this article makes no sense. It conflates issues of HRH and family name and hostile bureaucracy. I doubt that the hostile bureaucracy had anything to do with the other things.